Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war
Speaker 1: room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep within
Speaker 1: the confines of Cowboys Headquarters at the Star in Frescope,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys Liked d Lambs, Your host Kyle Yeoman's live
Speaker 1: from the s WBC Mortgage Studios. We have a PSA
Speaker 1: announcement for every draft nerd that continues to listen to
Speaker 1: this podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, it is officially Draft month
Speaker 1: as April is here. It's a Thursday edition of the
Speaker 1: Draft Show here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com, as always
Speaker 1: presented by Miller Lite. We're so glad you've been along
Speaker 1: with us throughout the ride. This is crazy. This is
Speaker 1: episode number thirty two since we started this journey back
Speaker 1: in December, so it's been quite some time together and
Speaker 1: we're mixing and matching the cruise. We've got David Hellman
Speaker 1: in studio here at the SWBC Mortgage Studios, and we've
Speaker 1: got Katie and Bucky Brooks on for the same show
Speaker 1: for the first time this year. But gentlemen, we all
Speaker 1: just kind of have to look at Bucky Brooks background
Speaker 1: and say he wins because I mean, goodness, gracious, he's
Speaker 1: got the bookshelves, he's got everything working. I know it's
Speaker 1: draft month, Bucky, but it's it's not that serious to
Speaker 1: where you have to go from your your your background
Speaker 1: to that. I mean, you don't have to outdo us
Speaker 1: like that. I mean a little moonlighting. So here at
Speaker 1: a Filmpdia's studios and so yeah, I got a nice backdrop.
Speaker 1: It looks like my home office is all of a
Speaker 1: sudden a new decorps. Katie. You're trying to keep up,
Speaker 1: I think at this point right oh absolutely, It's it's
Speaker 1: pretty wild. I'm kind of tripping out because I always
Speaker 1: see Bucky on TV like all the time. Like I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, all right, new show Bucky this week.
Speaker 1: This is awesome. But Bucky's like, all way, Bucky might
Speaker 1: be on TV behind me right now. Like it's a
Speaker 1: good bit doing something and it's pretty incredible, you know, Dave.
Speaker 1: I saw Kyle Kyle, you were doing play by play
Speaker 1: of the unt basketball games and the Comfort USA Tournament.
Speaker 1: I was like, all these people I work with you
Speaker 1: are doing cool things and then spare then there's me. No, no,
Speaker 1: I'm with you, man. I'm just alternating between the studio
Speaker 1: and my couch. That's I'm laughing at Kyle because he's like,
Speaker 1: it's it's Draft month, it's getting close, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: we gotta do this for another month yet, Like I'm
Speaker 1: I mean, I love the draft, don't mistake me. But
Speaker 1: like I'm reaching that point in the process where, you know,
Speaker 1: we've been talking about this since before New Year's and
Speaker 1: now like everybody else is jumping into the into the pool,
Speaker 1: like all the casuals, if you will, the casuals now,
Speaker 1: you know, free agency's over and everybody's got to take now.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, I don't want to hear it
Speaker 1: from y'all, Like leave the draft to the draft people,
Speaker 1: and y'all go worry about something else. See. And that's
Speaker 1: the fun part about it is because most of the
Speaker 1: listeners to this show have been with us since de
Speaker 1: sim I'm not talking to you if you're listening to
Speaker 1: the Draft Show. If you're listening to the Draft Show,
Speaker 1: you're good. I'm talking to like, you know, like we
Speaker 1: just National TV is just that all these pro days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my Twitter timeline is full of people that are like, oh,
Speaker 1: this this Kyle Pitts guy seems talented and like oh
Speaker 1: really tell me more. Come on all right anyway, ran see.
Speaker 1: And that's the good part about being in the position
Speaker 1: that we're in is because we we have we want
Speaker 1: people to come and be a part of the draft nation,
Speaker 1: right like you want people to come in and be
Speaker 1: a part of the deep draft analysis that we have.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, there's gonna be names that
Speaker 1: they've never heard of on Draft Day that we're gonna
Speaker 1: be like, Oh, yeah, I've loved that guy since November
Speaker 1: like that, that's been a guy that we've really been tabbed.
Speaker 1: But Kat came up with a great idea in our
Speaker 1: group message, and we want to give love to the
Speaker 1: guys who haven't necessarily gotten that same kind of love.
Speaker 1: Not necessarily a Day three pick. We're not necessarily talking
Speaker 1: about guys that are that are lower tier players like
Speaker 1: these sleepers, these pet cats. We're talking about guys who
Speaker 1: are really really good players but maybe don't get the
Speaker 1: pub as we talk about maybe a Kyle Pitts or
Speaker 1: any of the guys that are on the Draft magazine
Speaker 1: that you can also get on Dallas Cowboys dot com
Speaker 1: plug but any of those guys that you may not
Speaker 1: hear us talk about a ton, but we definitely deserve
Speaker 1: to talk about So, Katie, I know you've got a
Speaker 1: name already lined up or a couple names already lined up.
Speaker 1: How about you start us off. Tell me about a
Speaker 1: guy that's been under the radar in terms of talking
Speaker 1: about them, but it's definitely not under the radar in
Speaker 1: terms of the talent that he brings. Yeah. No, no,
Speaker 1: I've got a few names that. Look, I think some
Speaker 1: of these guys might even be household names, or at
Speaker 1: least to those who follow the draft quite closely. And
Speaker 1: I know that we don't talk about running backs a ton,
Speaker 1: especially when the Cowboys are kind of set it running back,
Speaker 1: but we do cover the entire draft here of the
Speaker 1: Draft show as well, And like I know, Javontay Williams
Speaker 1: from North Carolina is awesome and some of the most
Speaker 1: fun tape I've ever watched. And you just don't hear
Speaker 1: people talking about a much unless you get into a deep,
Speaker 1: you know, running back discussion. And I just think javont
Speaker 1: Williams from North Carolina needs to be talked about more
Speaker 1: because that guy's awesome. I know, my part of it
Speaker 1: might be because he's Michael Carter, you know, his buddy
Speaker 1: at North Carolina is getting some shine too, and he's
Speaker 1: a heck of a runner in his own right. But
Speaker 1: I just think Javonta Williams is special, and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure people were talking about him like that. Would you
Speaker 1: guys agree at all? You know, here's the funny thing.
Speaker 1: Haven't gone to North Carolina watched all the games this year.
Speaker 1: It's remarkable that this was a guy that was more
Speaker 1: of a walk on candidate. He's a guy to play
Speaker 1: linebacker primarily in high school, he was valedictorian. He had
Speaker 1: offers from the likes of Harvard and Yale, and yet
Speaker 1: he ends up at North Carolina and he becomes this beast.
Speaker 1: And so when you look at him and Michael Carter,
Speaker 1: Javonte Williams push the ball into pain And to me,
Speaker 1: he's a quintessential prototypical number one running back that can
Speaker 1: run it. He can do an inside and outside. He
Speaker 1: has bursts, he can go with power or finest, and
Speaker 1: he can catch the ball out of the backfield. I
Speaker 1: think his best game is at the next level because
Speaker 1: I think he is an NFL running back when you
Speaker 1: look at him. That raises an interesting question, and I
Speaker 1: love the concept of this is like, we're definitely not
Speaker 1: talking about sleepers. No, we're talking I mean, he's going
Speaker 1: to be the first or second running back drafting, But
Speaker 1: Naji Harris is a much more well known name. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm curious how y'all compare those two because I think
Speaker 1: any you know, anybody that follows college football or the
Speaker 1: draft knows about Naji and maybe not Williams. So I'm
Speaker 1: just curious. It's interesting because I think you start with
Speaker 1: running backs now, and as we've gone down this path
Speaker 1: over the past few years of I mean, I think
Speaker 1: devaluing the running backs a little too harsh. But maybe
Speaker 1: when it does come to draft inventory, I feel like
Speaker 1: you don't see the Cowboys maybe one of the last
Speaker 1: teams to draft running back in the top five, Like,
Speaker 1: you may not see this a ton moving forward. I
Speaker 1: was started thinking the other day. I was asking myself,
Speaker 1: are we talking about, like if I had to do
Speaker 1: the prop bet thing, are we talking about one and
Speaker 1: over under one and a half running backs drafted in
Speaker 1: the first round? That probably the number, But running backs
Speaker 1: they think are an excellent pick in the first round
Speaker 1: for those teams who were close and have a good
Speaker 1: roster and are picking on the back end of the
Speaker 1: first rateity. I mean, we saw it last year. Kansas
Speaker 1: City took Clyde Edwards Hilaria of LSU and unfortunately he
Speaker 1: got hurt. But you know, I was I was like
Speaker 1: kind of shocked to see a team like Green Band
Speaker 1: when they signed Aaron Jones, so they were picking at thirty.
Speaker 1: I was like, you can kind of just pop it
Speaker 1: on the running back right there, not that Aaron Jones.
Speaker 1: You know, do you pay your guys who you think
Speaker 1: are good players. But I said, though, it was really
Speaker 1: interesting that we might be looking at a draft with
Speaker 1: maybe just one running back take it in the first
Speaker 1: round this year, maybe two depending on who I was
Speaker 1: etn as well, And I just kind of think Javonte
Speaker 1: Williams deserves to be in that discussion with Harris and
Speaker 1: Eten personally. You know, KT is funny because I think
Speaker 1: when you talk to people inside, they believe Javontay Williams
Speaker 1: is not only in that discussion, but there's some that
Speaker 1: believe he is number one in that discussion, and so
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be a surprise if he does come off
Speaker 1: the board before Naja, Harris and Etienne. I think to
Speaker 1: think about Naja Harris. I actually feel like, even though
Speaker 1: Naja Harris has talked about, I feel like his game
Speaker 1: is underappreciated because most and most times, or maybe in
Speaker 1: old school football, when you see someone of his size
Speaker 1: who can run with power, who also can go outside
Speaker 1: and catch the ball. We were talking about him like
Speaker 1: we used to rave about Levyan Bill in his prime,
Speaker 1: because I see Naja Harris not as a Levyan Bill
Speaker 1: player in terms stylistically, He's more like Matt Forte. But
Speaker 1: he's still talking about and RB one wide receiver two,
Speaker 1: someone who can maybe put up twelve to thirteen hundred
Speaker 1: rushing yards and also give you seventy five to eighty
Speaker 1: catches if you want to utilize him in that and
Speaker 1: that life. Now, Bucky, do you think that's kind of
Speaker 1: a direct correspondent with how the running back position is
Speaker 1: going in today's NFL. Because he's a hell of a player.
Speaker 1: I mean, you look at any college football game and
Speaker 1: any time that he was on the field, he was dominant.
Speaker 1: I mean, he goes out and he's just a physical freak.
Speaker 1: Like you said, his versatility as a receiver along with
Speaker 1: being a tailback is something that teams are going to
Speaker 1: value whenever he gets to the NFL. But is it
Speaker 1: just because of the running back position, maybe the shelf life,
Speaker 1: maybe things like that. In the way that the NFL
Speaker 1: game is going that kind of devalues the way that
Speaker 1: we talk about Najia Harris from a draft standpoint, well,
Speaker 1: I think I think the drumbeat has gotten loud on
Speaker 1: the outside, Like when you have what they call him,
Speaker 1: the nerds or the quants talking about the analytics will
Speaker 1: say that you can get a running back anywhere. I
Speaker 1: believe it's really this. It depends how you want to
Speaker 1: build your team, because I would say it's better to
Speaker 1: draft the running back in the first realm, but never
Speaker 1: pay him after that original rookie deal, meaning draft him,
Speaker 1: signed him on franchise tags, and extended that way because
Speaker 1: that's the most cost effective model. The other thing people
Speaker 1: are doing is because they've seen the Shanahan's have success
Speaker 1: kind of finding running backs anywhere and everywhere. There's a
Speaker 1: belief that you can find those guys anywhere and everywhere.
Speaker 1: The true sweet spot were running backs the second and
Speaker 1: third round. If you look at the majority of the
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl players, they've come from the second and third
Speaker 1: round when it comes to the running back position. You
Speaker 1: know another player that I have in this boat of
Speaker 1: you know, guys that I think deserve to get a
Speaker 1: little more pub nationally. You know, I think we've seen
Speaker 1: him as a good player, and this will kind of
Speaker 1: get Cowboys fans involved because they don't need a cornerback.
Speaker 1: But Eric Stokes of Georgia. I really like Eric Stokes
Speaker 1: of Georgia. Only sixteen receptions allowed last year and the
Speaker 1: longest passing gave up was eighteen yards. And I know
Speaker 1: part of maybe this might be kind of the Javonte
Speaker 1: Williams thing and that he's got a teammate who's gonna
Speaker 1: get drafted at the same position, Tyson Campbell. But I
Speaker 1: think Eric Stokes needs to be talked about a lot
Speaker 1: more because I really don't think he makes it to
Speaker 1: forty four where the Cowboys picking the second round. I
Speaker 1: love that thought process because that's on it. Like when
Speaker 1: you told me this idea, that's and I'll get to
Speaker 1: a guy that I want to talk about in a
Speaker 1: sec but you know, you just kind of get sidetracked
Speaker 1: in the conversation. I mean, and rightfully so. With all
Speaker 1: these great cornerbacks that are available to you at the
Speaker 1: top of the draft. But I wonder if sometimes we
Speaker 1: get tunnel vision with the idea like locking in on
Speaker 1: that tenth pick, and it's like, I mean, you're picking
Speaker 1: in the top fifty in the second round, like they're
Speaker 1: going to be really good prospects available and a few corners.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've brought up Tyson Campbell on you know,
Speaker 1: with Bucky and Brian more times than I can count,
Speaker 1: so I won't do it here, but both of both
Speaker 1: of those guys honestly underrated players, multi year starters in
Speaker 1: the SEC. And yeah, I think that's that's the only
Speaker 1: worry there is. He might be so good that he
Speaker 1: doesn't even last to you in the second round. Well
Speaker 1: kind of interesting too because we talk about guys like
Speaker 1: Elijah Molden, Greg Newson, Tyson Campbell, and we kind of
Speaker 1: mentioned those names on in multiple times, but Stokes is
Speaker 1: one of the guys that kind of gets left out. So, Katie,
Speaker 1: whenever you're talking about Stokes, what's different about him to
Speaker 1: wear Cowboys fans? If he were to be a pick
Speaker 1: at forty four, what would get you excited about it?
Speaker 1: I have him as my fifth rated corner, but I
Speaker 1: want to hear what you have to say about what
Speaker 1: he brings. That's a little bit different than maybe some
Speaker 1: of the guys we have mentioned. No, no, absolutely, And
Speaker 1: I think first of all, his speed stands out. We
Speaker 1: didn't need to see his pro date time to know
Speaker 1: that he's fast, true, very fast player. I think with him,
Speaker 1: you do. He might be a little and I think
Speaker 1: slight maybe maybe too negative of a word, but you
Speaker 1: would like him maybe to get off blocks a little
Speaker 1: bit better on the outside and things like that. Like
Speaker 1: I don't think he is a bad tackler. I think
Speaker 1: he tries, but I wouldn't, you know, call him a
Speaker 1: good tackler either, And that's very important to me when
Speaker 1: building a team, is you know, tackling getting the guys
Speaker 1: to the ground. But I think he just does a
Speaker 1: really good job of anticipating routes and things like that.
Speaker 1: We know the straight line speed is there. I think
Speaker 1: he showed that he's able to fight through traffic when
Speaker 1: he's carrying a man across the field. Again, the Tyson
Speaker 1: Campbell traits do jump out and you go, WHOA, I
Speaker 1: see it. But I think Eric Stokes is a little better,
Speaker 1: more polished corner right now. And maybe even a safer
Speaker 1: pick if you want to say that. I think Eric
Speaker 1: Stokes looks very qualified and prepared and does a good
Speaker 1: job of playing the ball down the field and things
Speaker 1: like that and finding the ball, and I really, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of value that. And you know, again, it's not
Speaker 1: like he's a like we're talking about this guy like
Speaker 1: he's a sleeper or anything, because I think we're talking
Speaker 1: about ten cornerbacks that go in the top sixty. I
Speaker 1: think that's very possible. Yeah, and I think he deserves
Speaker 1: to be one of those first few guys. I think.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got him his cornerback four, so you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is where it kind of gets a
Speaker 1: lot of fun I have admittedly dropped Farley because of
Speaker 1: the back thing, but I think Eric Stokes, I feel
Speaker 1: like he's kind of flying under the radar. Are a
Speaker 1: tad because, like you said, we're talking about Molden. We
Speaker 1: talked about him all the time. Aaron Robinson might be
Speaker 1: another guy from Central Florida that maybe it's kind of
Speaker 1: getting glossed over a little bit. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: funny when we look at these cornerbacks right the depth
Speaker 1: in this year's class to me wide receiver, running backs,
Speaker 1: and cornerbacks. I believe that if you need those guys,
Speaker 1: that you could bypass those positions in the first round
Speaker 1: and get comfortable value in the second and third rounds
Speaker 1: and a lot of it. As it relates to the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: you know, we've kind of been pigeonholding the thinking that
Speaker 1: they have to take a corner at ten. But really,
Speaker 1: when we think about this system that dan Quinn is
Speaker 1: bringing in, it's a cover three system. It's really a
Speaker 1: zone system with some man stuff or whatever. So how
Speaker 1: much value do they put in that position in terms
Speaker 1: of draft capital? Can you find someone who has long
Speaker 1: range you with ball skills in the second and third
Speaker 1: round that command that and maybe you use that tenth
Speaker 1: pick to get a pass rusher, to get a a
Speaker 1: playmaker on offense and office alignment or whatever that is.
Speaker 1: I do want to internally how it stacks in the
Speaker 1: war room the priority positions. Yeah, and we've kind of
Speaker 1: I mean, that's been the debate that we've had. I
Speaker 1: think around this show and around the building. Is is
Speaker 1: it okay to be pigeonholed for a corner at ten?
Speaker 1: Is it okay for that? But I mean I don't
Speaker 1: think it's okay to be pigeonholed anywhere whenever it comes
Speaker 1: to the drafts, especially with a premium pig. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I mean you just are always looking at where the
Speaker 1: value lines up, and that's and so I want to
Speaker 1: bring this guy up because you know, we talk about dbs,
Speaker 1: we talk about tackles, tight ends, and I think I
Speaker 1: don't want to speak for everybody. I've talked about this
Speaker 1: on Twitter a lot, like, is there is there a
Speaker 1: pass rusher at ten that you would feel great about
Speaker 1: the Cowboys drafting? No? I don't know. So yeah, Bucky,
Speaker 1: do you agree? Now? I don't. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: one word be in a top ten s election, So okay,
Speaker 1: and I so we're all in agreement there. So now
Speaker 1: I'm thinking where might you be able to find one?
Speaker 1: And that's where this guy comes back into play. He's
Speaker 1: definitely like he's a known name. And I feel like
Speaker 1: this happens every year we zero in on the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl guys. We get really excited about the Senior Bowl guys,
Speaker 1: but the vast majority of the best prospects are not
Speaker 1: They're underclass so we get distracted by all of these
Speaker 1: other great underclassmen players and the Senior Bowl guys kind
Speaker 1: of fall by the wayside. And that's how I'm feeling
Speaker 1: about Carlos Basham right now, because I thought he's one
Speaker 1: of the first things we mentioned. He was he was
Speaker 1: in the first group of players that we mentioned. But
Speaker 1: have we talked about him a lot ever since? Probably not. No,
Speaker 1: he bullied Trey Smith at the Senior Bowl, Like I thought,
Speaker 1: he looked really good in the practice footage that I
Speaker 1: was able to watch from my couch. I didn't get
Speaker 1: to go to Mobile this year. And then he shows
Speaker 1: up at his pro day, and I know you can't
Speaker 1: completely trust these times and things at pros because it's
Speaker 1: not electronic, but like an unofficial four or five nine
Speaker 1: in the forty had a nice three cone thirty four
Speaker 1: inch vert, Like I feel like the book on this
Speaker 1: guy was that he's like a try hard guy, but
Speaker 1: not a super good athlete. The numbers are athletic, The
Speaker 1: numbers seem to disagree with that. So now I'm sitting
Speaker 1: here thinking like, could this be a really nice pick
Speaker 1: to make it forty four if he even lasts that long.
Speaker 1: You know, the funny thing is I can't really understand
Speaker 1: why Boogie Basham has not been talked about more is
Speaker 1: one of the conversations that I've had with people like
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, the love on the streets hasn't
Speaker 1: been out there as heavy as you would like to think,
Speaker 1: because last year, when I looked at him, when I
Speaker 1: thought he was coming out, I thought the dude was
Speaker 1: like one of the best that I've seen in terms
Speaker 1: of his hand skills and being able to make it
Speaker 1: happen turning speed in the power and then when you
Speaker 1: think about the versatility, the twitch, the fact that he
Speaker 1: not only is explosive with twitch but also as a
Speaker 1: high mortar guy, there's a lot to like about him.
Speaker 1: And so I can't understand why he is underrated and
Speaker 1: not really discussed as one of the top guys because
Speaker 1: all the things that you look at, you just check
Speaker 1: off all the boxes he would he should be someone
Speaker 1: that we talk about as a first round prospect, but
Speaker 1: we're not. I agree, And that's another name like I'm
Speaker 1: That's why I wanted to do this exercise, because I mean,
Speaker 1: he's a guy. I think if you're picking at forty
Speaker 1: four where the Cowboys are, he's a guy you might
Speaker 1: circle and go, you know what, let's let's spend some
Speaker 1: inventory and let's move up because he's not getting to
Speaker 1: you at forty four. I don't I don't see that happening.
Speaker 1: I would be I would be shocked if that happened.
Speaker 1: And that's right, kind of go okay, well how far
Speaker 1: does he fall? Do you want to get up to
Speaker 1: the mid thirties? And that would you know, that would
Speaker 1: cost you a little bit. That might cost you your
Speaker 1: third round pick or maybe cost you your your second
Speaker 1: third round pick at pick ninety nine. You kind of
Speaker 1: jumped those together. Maybe you can get up into the
Speaker 1: thirties and maybe he's there. So that's a that's a
Speaker 1: name of that you brought up, Dave. That's this is
Speaker 1: a success story. The second idea A success story. Oh
Speaker 1: I like this because you're just sitting around talking about guys.
Speaker 1: Can you see all your ideas are good? Yeah? Or
Speaker 1: most of them? Anyway? Thank you? Now, yeah you should uh,
Speaker 1: you should tell my family that they don't tell you.
Speaker 1: Totally believe that, but yes, that's gracious. Now, yeah, did
Speaker 1: uh kind of going off of boogie basham and kind
Speaker 1: of that edge rusher thought mentality. I mean, we've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about corners, and we've talked a lot about
Speaker 1: offensive tackles in the first round and then maybe trying
Speaker 1: to address it later on. But edge Rusher hasn't been
Speaker 1: up there. But we've also I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was on this show or if it was on any
Speaker 1: of the other shows that I do, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: but we've talked about are we sold on DeMarcus Lawrence
Speaker 1: and Randy Gregory because after that there's not a whole
Speaker 1: lot which there's not a lot of depth there. There's
Speaker 1: not ironically, like the next best thing behind those two
Speaker 1: is Carlos Basham's cousin, ye Terrell Basham, So hey, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe we could have a family reunion. Yeah, well, and
Speaker 1: there's the addition of Basham. I know, Brent Urban might
Speaker 1: come in and play a little bit of edge, but
Speaker 1: ultimately you would like him as maybe your nose or
Speaker 1: your three technique. I mean either either way. You kind
Speaker 1: of want him in the middle of the line. But
Speaker 1: he's your Tyrone Crawford. He's somebody who could bounce back
Speaker 1: and forth and maybe play a little bit of edge
Speaker 1: for you. However, I mean outside of Randy Gregory and
Speaker 1: outside of DeMarcus Lawrence. It's what Bradley and I and
Speaker 1: Terrell basham right now. Yeah, I feel great about Tank
Speaker 1: and Randy after that, No, it's not great. And you know,
Speaker 1: obviously Durance arnstrong. Yeah, I think things of I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I expect Randy to be available, but the
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is I don't believe he's ever
Speaker 1: played in sixteen games in his career. So love Randy,
Speaker 1: and I think his arrow is pointing up, but it's
Speaker 1: something you need to think about that, you know. I
Speaker 1: feel like people fall into this trap of thinking that
Speaker 1: he's an all pro and as great as he looked
Speaker 1: at times last year, I don't think he's there yet.
Speaker 1: And then I think Tank is way underrated. I think
Speaker 1: he catches a little bit too much flak from people.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's had plenty of his own injury issues,
Speaker 1: whether it's shoulder or back, you name it. So I
Speaker 1: would absolutely love to beef up the depth there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they've beefed up to depth on the defensive line, but
Speaker 1: just not a lot at er, not as much as
Speaker 1: you would really like. And it's kind of been with
Speaker 1: moves that we've really anticipated. Bucky. Yeah, when I think
Speaker 1: about dan Quinn's defense. I'm really trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who fits what role. Because you have the LEO, who
Speaker 1: is the guy that is the active he can be
Speaker 1: the undersized guy, which is more probably like Randy Gregory,
Speaker 1: but you need to have another another guy that could
Speaker 1: play that role because I don't think you can put
Speaker 1: all of your eggs in the Randy Gregory best exactly.
Speaker 1: And so Basham, you know Basham coming over for the Jets.
Speaker 1: He's a high mortar gup. He's never put up big
Speaker 1: numbers and when it comes to sack production. So I
Speaker 1: believe somewhere in the draft they have to find another
Speaker 1: guy who can play their role as the designated pass rusher.
Speaker 1: And so whether it's um Chris Rump from Duke or
Speaker 1: I got like Patrick Jones from Pittsburgh, there has to
Speaker 1: be someone that if they can't get a person early
Speaker 1: in the first round of the second round, it has
Speaker 1: to be someone that you can target in the third
Speaker 1: round that can give them some pass rushability and maybe
Speaker 1: outplay their draft status because they're playing in a role
Speaker 1: that is just catered to the skills that they have developed.
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm glad you brought up Chris rump Bucky
Speaker 1: because that's a that's a fun watch right there too,
Speaker 1: just flying around the end and sometimes he can doesn't
Speaker 1: take much to push him down, but he's that guy
Speaker 1: is awesome. Um, his dad's a coach. I mean, he
Speaker 1: knows what he's doing. That's that's a good player man,
Speaker 1: good situational bass rusher. I like that him. Some of
Speaker 1: those duke guys. I mean, there's a duke tight end.
Speaker 1: Noah Gray that I know is getting a lot of pubs,
Speaker 1: and Bucky you really liked in the Draft magazine. But
Speaker 1: I do want to talk about a tight end really quickly.
Speaker 1: And this once again might not be exactly what the
Speaker 1: Cowboys fans are looking for right now. But there was
Speaker 1: storylines this past week about Brevin Jordan from Miami, and
Speaker 1: he brought up the storyline was the fact that at
Speaker 1: his pro day, which was a decent pro day, came
Speaker 1: out and said the Cowboys are in love with me,
Speaker 1: they love me, talking about how infatuated the Dallas Cowboys are,
Speaker 1: which kind of threw me and Dave for a loop.
Speaker 1: We were sitting upstairs and we just kind of looked
Speaker 1: at each other and like, wait, hold up, do we
Speaker 1: need to look at tight end a little bit more here.
Speaker 1: That's my question to you guys. Do we need to
Speaker 1: look at tight end a little bit more here out
Speaker 1: of these maybe undersung prospects that we didn't necessarily talk
Speaker 1: about previously. I will be marketing genius. I'll be one
Speaker 1: hundred percent on us with you, like please the depth
Speaker 1: of my Like I've been so fixated on Kyle Pitts
Speaker 1: that that's about where my tight end the same investigation stops.
Speaker 1: And I don't wait. So at the same time, I
Speaker 1: think two things, like, tight end is a position. Teams
Speaker 1: love to draft tight ends because like they can play
Speaker 1: special teams, they can block a lot of things. Guy
Speaker 1: John McKeon last year played a lot of time made
Speaker 1: mckun made the roster as an undrafted free agent because
Speaker 1: of how versatile and valuably is. So with ten picks,
Speaker 1: I could absolutely see them drafting a guy. I just wonder,
Speaker 1: unless it's Kyle Pits, which we don't have to do
Speaker 1: that right now. But I just wonder how much bang
Speaker 1: for your buck you're really getting spending, you know, if
Speaker 1: you want to draft a guy like in a six
Speaker 1: or seventh round just to make the team. Whatever. But
Speaker 1: I think Blake Jarwin and Dalton Schultz is a pretty
Speaker 1: damn good duo. And you know Sean mcun we haven't
Speaker 1: seen much of him, but he was good enough to
Speaker 1: make the team as a rookie. I don't see why
Speaker 1: he can't be your third. I would rather just add
Speaker 1: a cheap resource to the back end of that. Unless
Speaker 1: I would rather either like buy the Lamborghini, like just
Speaker 1: go whole, I can do it right, or just worry
Speaker 1: about it later. That's kind of where I am. I
Speaker 1: don't know about y'all, all right, So so here's my thing,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be negative Nancy Day, but
Speaker 1: I please do it. So so the thing with cal Pits,
Speaker 1: which I like, right like? I like cal Pits. I
Speaker 1: think he's a unique weapon and offensive playmaker in those things. However,
Speaker 1: when we've talked about these type guys being drafted early,
Speaker 1: more times than not, they've not been what we expected.
Speaker 1: So if we're going to top ten, we think about
Speaker 1: t J. Hockinson wasn't in this category, but TJ. Hockinson
Speaker 1: at eight, we haven't got return on an investment. If
Speaker 1: you're the Detroit Lions, you go all the way back
Speaker 1: to Eric Ebron coming out of North Carolina. He was
Speaker 1: effected to be one of these guys, a jumbow wide
Speaker 1: receiver to make an impact. It hasn't happened. When you
Speaker 1: look at the All Pro players or the Pro Bowl
Speaker 1: players at the position. George Kittle was a fifth round pick.
Speaker 1: Travis Kelsey, if I'm not mistaken, was a fifth round pick.
Speaker 1: Darren was a six round pick that was a wide
Speaker 1: receiver in college. So maybe, just maybe we should investigate
Speaker 1: the lower round guys because it appears that those are
Speaker 1: the guys that are really making it happen as opposed
Speaker 1: to the guys that we are falling in love with
Speaker 1: at the top of the board. That that is the
Speaker 1: one thing. Sorry, sorry, Katie. I'll let you real quick,
Speaker 1: go Dave, this is you. It is that's the one
Speaker 1: thing that scares me about Kyle Pitts. I mean, the
Speaker 1: track records not great. But you always say, don't scout
Speaker 1: the helmet, and I like scout. Yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's Kyle Pitts's fault that some of
Speaker 1: those guys haven't worked out. But what do you think, Katy?
Speaker 1: Oh No, I mean, look, I think at ten I'm
Speaker 1: not interested in getting cute. I put a board together.
Speaker 1: I have a best player. I take that best player
Speaker 1: at ten now down the road, though Bucky's right to exill.
Speaker 1: First of all, let me get this out of the
Speaker 1: way on Brevin Jordan's marketing genius. All of these kids
Speaker 1: should say the Cowboys in love with them. They could
Speaker 1: have no contact with the Cowboys whatsoever. Yes, of course,
Speaker 1: the world's most valued franchise. Yeah, they love me. Yes,
Speaker 1: smart like that makes him a good candidate. I have
Speaker 1: Rerevin Jordan is tied in four for me, and I
Speaker 1: really like Rerevin Jordan. I really like the Notre Dame kid,
Speaker 1: Tommy tremble Um. I think he is like a better
Speaker 1: Joseph Deguara from Cincinnati. And that's probably not a household name,
Speaker 1: but Deguara I caught everyone's attention last year. Hey can
Speaker 1: use him. I just think he's better than him too.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know how to say his
Speaker 1: last name, but the Penn State kid Pat oh, yeah, Friarmouth.
Speaker 1: It's just a hard name to say, um, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right name. I don't order the Pitts thing here
Speaker 1: that that'd be what I don't want to do the
Speaker 1: Pitts thing here. You're right, but I'd still go ahead
Speaker 1: and rip the band aid off because I just look
Speaker 1: at my personal rankings and God knows what the Cowboys
Speaker 1: are gonna have. But I do I have Pitts graded
Speaker 1: higher than Sir Tan, I do. I have Pitts graded
Speaker 1: higher than Sewell. I do. I've been scrated higher than Slater,
Speaker 1: I do. And that's where it kind of goes. You know,
Speaker 1: I'd probably gotta do it right. But that's the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Like at ten, I don't want you guys like overthinking it.
Speaker 1: Just cheers what we got. Let's do it. We're doing it.
Speaker 1: We're all in. But you know what's gonna happen in
Speaker 1: Cowboys Country? If we start talking about day two tight ends,
Speaker 1: the words Gavin Escobar is gonna get thrown out. It's
Speaker 1: just it's gonna happen. Poor kids won't be wearing that. So,
Speaker 1: so if the Cowboys did a Day two tight end
Speaker 1: like that, poor kid didn't have a chance because the
Speaker 1: fans were just gonna call him Gavin Escobar. I will
Speaker 1: say this, I think a lot of it depends on
Speaker 1: if the Cowboys go back into the tight end pool
Speaker 1: a lot of it to me. Will tell me if
Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy is taking maybe a bigger interest in the offense.
Speaker 1: If you go back and look at what he did
Speaker 1: in Green Bay, he was big on always having two
Speaker 1: tight ends on the field. And those tight ends were
Speaker 1: not necessarily traditional tight ends. They were the jumble wide
Speaker 1: receiver types because they would go empty formation and make
Speaker 1: you show your hand to make the game easy for
Speaker 1: the quarterback. And I'm not saying that now because they
Speaker 1: pay Dak Prescott that they're going to justify paying him
Speaker 1: big money. But we've talked about it. We've talked about
Speaker 1: the strength of the team is the offense, and we
Speaker 1: can talk about, oh, we got to improve the defense.
Speaker 1: But the one thing I know, if you put points
Speaker 1: on the field, you make opponents one dimensional on offense
Speaker 1: because now they're chasing points and so if they go
Speaker 1: all in on this offensive approach, I do believe adding
Speaker 1: another tight end is sensible because you want to have
Speaker 1: the ability to dictate the terms of variety of ways.
Speaker 1: Let's go eleven personnel, let's go twelve personnel. Hey, let's
Speaker 1: take all the running backs off the field. Let's go
Speaker 1: two tight ends, three wide outs. Let's see how they
Speaker 1: react to it. How creative do they want to get
Speaker 1: with the offense? I think a lot of it depends
Speaker 1: on how Mike McCarthy viewsed his team and how he
Speaker 1: used the best course of action when it comes to
Speaker 1: winning a bunch of games. It's one of Dave's favorite
Speaker 1: things to hear, is twelve personnel depend You know what
Speaker 1: twelve personnel used to really piss me off? Yeah? I know,
Speaker 1: but why that's what I said? It may like it.
Speaker 1: It bothers me a lot less now that I think
Speaker 1: the Cowboys have two decent catching tight end Okay, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't even want to say his name again. But
Speaker 1: if they draft that guy, I'll like it even more.
Speaker 1: I promise sit the guy out of Florida. Yeah, that's okay,
Speaker 1: just want one that's interesting. By the way, Bucky earlier
Speaker 1: when he was like, yeah, he's a good player, Like
Speaker 1: he's he's good. I like him, that was like probably
Speaker 1: the worst I've heard anybody ever talk about Kyle Pitts,
Speaker 1: because usually it's like this guy's so like, this guy's unbelievable,
Speaker 1: and Bucky was just, I mean, he's he's a he's
Speaker 1: a freak athlete. But what I believe most people, most
Speaker 1: play callers, don't know how to utilize the tide end.
Speaker 1: So we can talk about him being a great athlete
Speaker 1: or whatever, and there's been a conversation where hey, maybe
Speaker 1: he's a Julio Jones Megatron type that you put out
Speaker 1: wide and he plays and those things. Most guys don't
Speaker 1: have the capacity to find or create a playbook or
Speaker 1: a game plan that really maximizes the tied end. And
Speaker 1: so I think this is where we got to scout
Speaker 1: the play caller. Does your play caller have a track
Speaker 1: record of being able to get the tied end loose?
Speaker 1: Because if he doesn't, then Kyle Pitts is a wasted
Speaker 1: draft pick because you don't maximize who he is. We
Speaker 1: talked about North North Fan goes to Denver and he's
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, you know, like so I just want
Speaker 1: him if he's going, if he's going to be what
Speaker 1: we say he is, I just would like to see
Speaker 1: him go to a place that can utilize him and
Speaker 1: elevate him the way that his talents would suggest that
Speaker 1: he should be elevated. Another show, another draft show dominated
Speaker 1: by Kyle Pitts, which is gonna happen. I think up
Speaker 1: until I feel guilty, but at the same time I don't.
Speaker 1: We have to. You have to over overturn every rocky
Speaker 1: potentially can. We're gonna overturn all of our rocks and
Speaker 1: go and try and take a break. When we come back.
Speaker 1: We've got Twitter on the twenty. We're a little bit late.
Speaker 1: We're sorry about that, but we're gonna get to your
Speaker 1: questions when we come back. Here on the Dallas Cowboys
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Speaker 1: dot com Draft show back here for the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com Draft show. Want to remind you if Chris
Speaker 1: could pull up my little solo came here. Then starting
Speaker 1: this week, you can get the Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine
Speaker 1: Draft Guide, a fresh new cover and lots of potential picks.
Speaker 1: You got Patrick Surtan, I'm playing like a weatherman here
Speaker 1: backwards on the screen, Kayla Farley who may not be
Speaker 1: as likely, Michael Parsons for Shawn Slater. Lots of guys
Speaker 1: on the cover. You've got eighty eight draft profiles. We
Speaker 1: even had Bucky Brooks pick his pet cat at every
Speaker 1: single position. It's a lot of information. Dave Hellman did
Speaker 1: a mock draft and it really had that age that'll
Speaker 1: age well. I'm sure I think it's pretty good. You
Speaker 1: and I were talking about it the other day. I
Speaker 1: was like, this looks like it's one hundred percent accurate
Speaker 1: all the way through. All thirty two picks I thought
Speaker 1: were as accurate as can be. So go check it
Speaker 1: out Dallas Cowboys dot Com. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: on sale at this very moment, but coming up they
Speaker 1: will definitely be on sale. So while we get a
Speaker 1: chance to hit the sounder, let's go into Twitter. On
Speaker 1: the twenty on the Twitter, Chris Beam as always doing
Speaker 1: fantastic work in the back. So first question here, this
Speaker 1: is kind of intriguing to me, and I know it'll
Speaker 1: be intriguing to David Hellman as well. This comes from
Speaker 1: Nolan Henderson. He said, if the Cowboys like the idea
Speaker 1: of bringing in Keana'neil to play a little week sidelinebacker
Speaker 1: and some strong safety and base packages, why not target
Speaker 1: a guy like Jeremiah lusu Coamora from Notre Dame in
Speaker 1: this draft. He was made in a lab for that
Speaker 1: type of work, and Neil is only on that one
Speaker 1: year contract. There's all every year, every year there's a
Speaker 1: guy that I absolutely love who just doesn't fit the
Speaker 1: Cowboys range. I guess, and I don't know. I go
Speaker 1: back and forth on that because I'm the guy's a
Speaker 1: great player and he can do a bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: for you. Draft him, draft him. Yeah, Like you know,
Speaker 1: people are always like, I don't know about ten, but
Speaker 1: I'd do it at sixteen. And it's like, really like
Speaker 1: six picks is enough to get you to swing that wildly,
Speaker 1: Which we've said that on this show before two about Jeremiah. Oh, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I understand it to some degree. But I also
Speaker 1: I think he's a hell of a player. I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree with the question completely. You know, bring him like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he could do he could do what Keyan O'Neil is
Speaker 1: here to do. Absolutely, he could like he could play
Speaker 1: some will, he could play safety down in the box.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you would do it a lot, but
Speaker 1: he's shown on tape that he can play in the
Speaker 1: slot and help you deal with you know, receivers and
Speaker 1: tight ends that are flexed out. And he just seems
Speaker 1: like one of those modern players to me where you
Speaker 1: don't like he doesn't have a position and he doesn't
Speaker 1: need one. And I would probably draft him at ten.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think the Cowboys would, but I
Speaker 1: would consider it. I don't know what about y'all. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think he's I think he's a talented player. I
Speaker 1: think the main thing is like the measurements, like how
Speaker 1: big is he? Where do you really fit him? It's
Speaker 1: a bit like the Jeremy Chen Isaiah Simmons conversation when
Speaker 1: you talk to people in Arizona before that where does
Speaker 1: he go? Because it's great to say that someone has
Speaker 1: this flexibility and versatil they can play linebacker. They can
Speaker 1: play safety, but at the end of the day, where
Speaker 1: do they go for their position meetings because they have
Speaker 1: to major in something before they can minor in the
Speaker 1: other things. I think for Abusko moresy a guy that
Speaker 1: can play in the box and be your linebacker in
Speaker 1: the style of defense that you want to play, I
Speaker 1: would say in Dallas, yes, because we saw them. We
Speaker 1: saw Dan Quinn take these light linebackers in Atlanta and
Speaker 1: have success, So I think he absolutely can do it.
Speaker 1: I think the fascination with Keyan O'Neil they're trying to
Speaker 1: jump start the defense right now. You bring Kaze over,
Speaker 1: you bring in Keyan O'Neill over. You're trying to get
Speaker 1: guys on the field who don't require it's learning and
Speaker 1: we can get it and go. And I said, I
Speaker 1: think data's philosophy. So I don't know if you'll use
Speaker 1: the tenth pick on the guy, but he's fantastic. It
Speaker 1: would get somebody off the field while while we're here.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, interesting, No, while we're here though, him or J. C. Horne.
Speaker 1: What do you do if let's say your guys or
Speaker 1: ten and he's not there at ten, which I think
Speaker 1: could be very likely. I think that could happen Jay
Speaker 1: okay or Horn wow? Or or or Parsons Oh wow,
Speaker 1: A good another ringe. You gotta gotta make the call.
Speaker 1: You can't trade back. What are you doing. I'll take
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons. Wow. I think I would take jac Horn.
Speaker 1: I think i'd take Horn. I think I would take
Speaker 1: Horn too. But I'm surprised, Bucky. I want you to
Speaker 1: elaborate because I'm surprised you said Parsons there. I think
Speaker 1: Parsons is a much better player than all I think
Speaker 1: if you look at it, if we go back and
Speaker 1: really look at the tape and ignore all the stuff
Speaker 1: that kind of cloud of the evaluation about like oh,
Speaker 1: they're character concerns or whatever, when you turn on the tape,
Speaker 1: he's a dominant player. He's a top five player. If
Speaker 1: you think about the way Devin White dominates the game
Speaker 1: for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in terms of being a
Speaker 1: pass rushing inside linebacker. Michael Parsons can do all of that.
Speaker 1: The stuff that he put on display at his Pro day.
Speaker 1: And I'm not a Pro day guy, but someone two
Speaker 1: and forty six pounds running forty three nine with the
Speaker 1: stuff that he's put on tape as a pass Russia,
Speaker 1: as a guy who plays like a bull in a
Speaker 1: china shop. You sign me up for that. And going
Speaker 1: all the way back to what he was in high school,
Speaker 1: he was a defensive end with his hand in the dirt.
Speaker 1: And so when you think about creatively how you want
Speaker 1: to maximize how we can get after the quarterback, well,
Speaker 1: that guy can do it, and so I would take him.
Speaker 1: I think with jac Horne in the debate that I've
Speaker 1: had with Jac Horn over past or ten, j C.
Speaker 1: Horne may be an extraordinary athlete, pass or ten is
Speaker 1: a technician and a player, And depend upon where you
Speaker 1: put those guys, they gonna have different levels of success.
Speaker 1: And so at ten, I want to make sure that
Speaker 1: I don't swing and miss. I think it's less likely
Speaker 1: that I'm a swinging miss on Michael Parsons based on
Speaker 1: his skill set and what is needed in Dallas. Interesting,
Speaker 1: you love it. That's interesting, Kat, You got out of
Speaker 1: this without offering your opinion. Dang it, it's hoping I
Speaker 1: can skate through there. No, it is interesting too when
Speaker 1: you look at what the Cowboys situations, you obviously you're
Speaker 1: drafting these guys for more than one year, but they
Speaker 1: don't have to pick up the fifth year option of
Speaker 1: Laton vander ash who has proven that he can't stay healthy.
Speaker 1: Jalen Smith, you can still get out of his contract
Speaker 1: next year. Like, it's not like he's here forever. So like,
Speaker 1: do you get any linebacker that high? I'm not completely
Speaker 1: out on. I think I would probably tend to lean
Speaker 1: towards Parsons as well. Maybe right there you're talking about
Speaker 1: there's no doubt, and I love Jay okay, but there's
Speaker 1: no doubt. You are taking a bit of a leap
Speaker 1: of faith that he can do what you want him
Speaker 1: to do, or that you have an idea and that's
Speaker 1: gonna work. But Parsons, there are numerous ways that he
Speaker 1: can work, and I think that's the type of thing
Speaker 1: that that would really turn beyond to him right there.
Speaker 1: And again I would it's not what I want at ten,
Speaker 1: but and I'm not huge I'm taking linebackers earlier. I'm
Speaker 1: a big fan of of circling back and getting linebackers
Speaker 1: on day two or even early day three who can
Speaker 1: kind of run and play and things like that. But
Speaker 1: I think right there at ten, if everything dries up,
Speaker 1: no one calls to move up to ten. I'm okay
Speaker 1: with taking Parsons right there, nothing wrong with that because
Speaker 1: I want to I just want to have to don't
Speaker 1: draft a linebacker early discussion because I'm trying to figure
Speaker 1: out I was about this conversation because I've heard because
Speaker 1: I'm not I've heard not only here, but i've heard
Speaker 1: it so said I would say this about Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: say this about linebackers and those things. I think if
Speaker 1: we go and look and look, the Pro Bowl is
Speaker 1: the Pro Bowl. But when you look at the elites
Speaker 1: at the position, I think those linebackers are either first
Speaker 1: or second rounders. Like Darius Leonard is a little bit
Speaker 1: of the outlier because he was two hundred and ten,
Speaker 1: two hundred and fourteen poles in South Carolina State. But
Speaker 1: when you look at that linebacker position, when you have one,
Speaker 1: they change the game. I look at I mean, like
Speaker 1: we bring up White again. White has been every bit
Speaker 1: as good as we thought. And I'm gonna say at LSU,
Speaker 1: I didn't know that he could get up to the
Speaker 1: passer like that. But when you look at the Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: when they run, they hit people and they go down immediately,
Speaker 1: and it changes the game. When you're playing coverage or whatever. Now,
Speaker 1: I will say this, if you take a linebacker in
Speaker 1: the first round and up high, they have to be
Speaker 1: able to impact the game. Not only is a run defendant,
Speaker 1: they have to be able to do something in coverage.
Speaker 1: And if they could offer blitzability, that is that. And
Speaker 1: so we didn't talk about this guy, but the Kentucky
Speaker 1: linebacker John and Davis. Yeah, it's a name. I keep
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about him. It's a name. Ike keep
Speaker 1: hearing we did it. He popped to four three nine,
Speaker 1: And look, I hate to talk about the protect continually
Speaker 1: kind of change his thing, but just look at the tape.
Speaker 1: He is an a linebacker that is all over the place,
Speaker 1: and no one really talks about him, like we talked
Speaker 1: about Bolten and ze Zavian Collins and those guys, and
Speaker 1: so it sounds like he's gonna be a second round pick.
Speaker 1: But wow, man, he runs fast, he makes plays in
Speaker 1: the sec. I'll just I've bet Johan Davis. I've bet
Speaker 1: John Davis goes top twenty. Because there's like, what's everyone
Speaker 1: sort of like watching his tape and stuff going oh
Speaker 1: holy cow, wow, there it is. For some reason, it
Speaker 1: feels like a lot of the draft media community or
Speaker 1: whatever was watching Zavin Collins versus Nick Bolton. This is
Speaker 1: this feels very Vanderesh to me. I mean, no one
Speaker 1: was talking about Vanderesh top twenty back in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: and we got down to it and it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: why is this happening. Uh Dane always calls an ascending prospect,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, well, he watched the tape and
Speaker 1: he's awesome. So like, I don't I got I got
Speaker 1: no buds about that. I think Joan Davis, we're talking
Speaker 1: about him in the top twenty, top twenty five, and
Speaker 1: in three weeks, I'll just say that Bucky, we already
Speaker 1: we already did this argument month or so. No. I like,
Speaker 1: I just I look at linebacker the way that you
Speaker 1: were talking about running back, like I and hey, Devin
Speaker 1: White's amazing. If you're getting Devin White, draft, signed me up,
Speaker 1: draft Michael Parsons. But to your point, what like, what
Speaker 1: makes Devin White valuable is that he's got freaky good
Speaker 1: coverability for a linebacker and he had nine sacks last season.
Speaker 1: So if I'm drafting you in top ten, I need
Speaker 1: I need like you know, six or more sacks to
Speaker 1: help me justify that. Whereas, yeah, but if you're not,
Speaker 1: if you're not giving me that, I'm looking at the
Speaker 1: list just some of the best linebackers. You know, Darius
Speaker 1: Leonard wasn't a first round pick, Bobby Wagner, second round pick,
Speaker 1: Fred Warner, third round pick, de Mario Davis, third round pick,
Speaker 1: kJ Wright. You can find cowboys are supposedly talking to
Speaker 1: was pick ninety nine. I just you can find guys
Speaker 1: that can run and hit all over the place. And
Speaker 1: unless if Michael Parsons is that guy who gets you
Speaker 1: sacks and covers and tackles everything, I don't hate it,
Speaker 1: but I just I think I'd rather take my chances
Speaker 1: drafting that guy. On Day two, somethings were talking about
Speaker 1: it and what, Yeah, I'm what I'm trying to do,
Speaker 1: and having the conversation. What I want us to do
Speaker 1: is to raise the standard in terms of what we're
Speaker 1: doing when we're issuing out grades. So like the Michael
Speaker 1: Parsons and those guys that we're talking about top ten,
Speaker 1: I want you to think about when we use the
Speaker 1: word as top ten pick, that that is a special
Speaker 1: that is like the Holy Grill, like we don't issue
Speaker 1: that out like we may only give out three or
Speaker 1: four top ten grades when we're looking at a class.
Speaker 1: And so you're right, Devin White is special and that's
Speaker 1: why those guys have to go because they check off
Speaker 1: all of those boxes. And so really in most draft classes,
Speaker 1: they're about eighteen to twenty two guys that are really
Speaker 1: first round picks, right, Like, that's how rare it should
Speaker 1: be when we're talking about it. The bulk of the
Speaker 1: guys are second and third round. Is that depending on
Speaker 1: where they go, they can elevate and play at a
Speaker 1: pro bowl level. But when we're putting that grade down,
Speaker 1: we should be really really stingy about handing out those
Speaker 1: first round grades because it's almost like going to a
Speaker 1: beauty paget. You want them to not only be the
Speaker 1: prettiest person at the ball, but you want them to
Speaker 1: when the talent competition answered the big hard question, you
Speaker 1: want them to be able to check off all the boxes.
Speaker 1: And so that is what it is. Because my other
Speaker 1: thing to this would be like, when we talk about
Speaker 1: these wide receivers, is there really a big separation between
Speaker 1: that clump of Jamarches, DeVante Smith and Jalen Waddle and
Speaker 1: then separating the divide and talking about Eli Moore, Rashide
Speaker 1: Bateman and some of these other guys, Like how big
Speaker 1: is that divide? Because if we don't feel like it's
Speaker 1: that big of a divide, we should always take our
Speaker 1: wide receivers in the second and third rounds. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: look at the divide from last year. I mean the
Speaker 1: top three wide receivers were Ceedee Lamb, Henry Ruggs, and
Speaker 1: Jerry Judy, who were some of the vers that had
Speaker 1: the better year Justin Jefferson, Chase Claypool. I mean, there
Speaker 1: are guys that are later in the draft that are
Speaker 1: going to close that gap. Initially, now I know they're
Speaker 1: just rookies and there's a long career to be had.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like I completely agree with you, Bucky,
Speaker 1: and that's where you have to make that decision. Whenever
Speaker 1: it comes to linebacker, how big is that gap? As
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons j ok, are they that much better than
Speaker 1: guys that are like Baron Browning and Nick Bolton and
Speaker 1: those guys that are kind of that second tier off linebacker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it also depends on how you play them so stylistically,
Speaker 1: like I think you guys brought up. And it's interesting, Dave,
Speaker 1: because you brought up a bunch of linebackers that play
Speaker 1: in this scheme. Yeah, so you brought up fare Warner.
Speaker 1: This scheme is the Seattle Seahawks scheme. Bobby Wagner is
Speaker 1: the scheme. kJ Wright was also in the scheme. I
Speaker 1: think the Mario Davis was the only guy that was
Speaker 1: outside of it. So a lot of it is fit
Speaker 1: in scheme. And from a philosophical standpoint, how do you
Speaker 1: what are the job requirements from the position that really
Speaker 1: depends and so without knowing the Cowboys front office as well,
Speaker 1: I think if you can flesh that out, then you
Speaker 1: begin to make more sense. Like, Okay, no, this is
Speaker 1: a Cowboys pick because from a philosophical standpoint, the coaching
Speaker 1: staff and the front officer are married. They want to
Speaker 1: play like this, so this is the pool that they're
Speaker 1: going to fish from. Yeah, yeah, I will say we
Speaker 1: need to do no sorry, Katie, Yeah, we probably do
Speaker 1: need to go to break we do, but go ahead.
Speaker 1: And so it's a good change. But it is funny,
Speaker 1: like you know, when when the old coaching staff was here,
Speaker 1: we really had this thing pretty nailed, like like it
Speaker 1: was like a just following along with a map, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you had you had the crump trail. Yeah, you just
Speaker 1: followed all the way through. It had partially partially because
Speaker 1: of COVID, partially because it's an all new coaching staff,
Speaker 1: like it just hasn't been as easy, which, like I said,
Speaker 1: it's a nice change. But I do kind of miss
Speaker 1: the days where like by this point in the draft
Speaker 1: cycle three years ago, we would have been we would
Speaker 1: have been like, oh yeah, okay, it's late and Vanderesh
Speaker 1: it's taco like. So I kind of missed that, but
Speaker 1: not really. See, I think it's more fun because think
Speaker 1: about last year, and nobody thought it would be Ceedee Lamb.
Speaker 1: Now that was also just because nobody thought he would
Speaker 1: fall that far. There was a chance he would fall,
Speaker 1: but nobody anticipated it. But even I think what throws
Speaker 1: us off more this year is because they actually took
Speaker 1: him last year because there was a chance that even
Speaker 1: if he would have fallen to seventeen, the pick still
Speaker 1: would have been Caleb on Chase on Yeah, instead they
Speaker 1: went with Ceedee Lamb, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: we were left guessing, now, let's go ahead and take
Speaker 1: our second break. When we come back, I want to
Speaker 1: kind of continue this conversation, but I also want to
Speaker 1: talk about being aggressive and maybe trading up, and I'll
Speaker 1: explain why when we come back on the other side
Speaker 1: of the break. Here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com
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Speaker 1: Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Onto the
Speaker 1: final segment here of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show.
Speaker 1: So glad you've all been along with us. David Hellman,
Speaker 1: Bucky Brooks, Kevin kat Turner, I'm Kyle Yeomans. And since
Speaker 1: we got into one whopping question hunt Twitter on the twenty,
Speaker 1: I want to ask one more question. We're bad, We're
Speaker 1: member bad at it. We were really good the last
Speaker 1: couple of weeks actually, but we got we got through
Speaker 1: one question today. Thanks everybody for sending in your questions.
Speaker 1: So Doug Brady asked this on Twitter and it kind
Speaker 1: of made me perk up a little bit because I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about this recently with the pro day that
Speaker 1: Patrick's Urtan had, with the news of Caleb Farley. If
Speaker 1: Certan is your guy, if he is, if the Cowboys
Speaker 1: are dead set your dad set on Patrick's Rutan, do
Speaker 1: we need to talk more seriously about maybe going up
Speaker 1: and getting him. Could you trade and this is from Doug,
Speaker 1: could you trade from ten or maybe with pick seventy
Speaker 1: five to try and get up to seven with Detroit
Speaker 1: and maybe try and pick mister Curtan at pick number seven.
Speaker 1: That a possibility, Bucky, you think, Man, I know there's
Speaker 1: a possibility him going there. Man, do do we see
Speaker 1: him like that? And I like him? I'm a pastor
Speaker 1: ten Fano'm friends with his dad and everything. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I see him as one did I have
Speaker 1: to aggressively go up and get because when we talk
Speaker 1: about those corners like that, Jalen Ramsey should be like
Speaker 1: the bar like he's he gonna come and when he
Speaker 1: steps on the field, day one, patter, you got this side,
Speaker 1: You got this out of the field by yourself, no help.
Speaker 1: We're gonna worry everything about digs And I just don't
Speaker 1: know if he's that kind of player. So now I
Speaker 1: wouldn't aggresively move up and make that move. So we're
Speaker 1: talking about if going up you take seventy five or
Speaker 1: maybe it was you know, ninety nine. I do think
Speaker 1: it hasn't been talked about enough and obviously still on
Speaker 1: a movement and chake and gonna happen. Lord knows what
Speaker 1: Atlanta is gonna do. Carolina can still go get aggressive
Speaker 1: and get a cornerback. But Carolina and eight is a
Speaker 1: team who could use a cornerback too. And I know
Speaker 1: we've been talking about him using the QB, but cornerback
Speaker 1: is somewhere they can do it too. And then and
Speaker 1: then nine Denver. I mean, I know they signed Darby
Speaker 1: and Kyle Fuller, but Vic Fangio's their head coach. They
Speaker 1: still might get a little action going on cornerback there
Speaker 1: in front of us. So, like, it's an interesting concept.
Speaker 1: I agree wholeheartedly with the buck he said. I just
Speaker 1: he's not that guy for me, Like, and it's no
Speaker 1: offense to anyone. It's just I'll set it ten and
Speaker 1: I'll still get a really good player. I don't feel
Speaker 1: like I need to give up inventory. I got. I
Speaker 1: got more work to do on defense later as well.
Speaker 1: If he was that guy, I'm okay with it. If
Speaker 1: I've got him circled and that is my guy who
Speaker 1: won't be the number one guy on my board most
Speaker 1: likely when it's time to pick, especially, he might be,
Speaker 1: but I kind of doubt it. Keep in mind too,
Speaker 1: that like trading in the top ten is a lot
Speaker 1: more expensive than trading anywhere else. I mean, you kind
Speaker 1: of set the terms of those deals. Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't remember off the top of my head, but when
Speaker 1: the Bears moved up for Trubisky, they had to pay
Speaker 1: a fortune to move one spot. Like they gave up
Speaker 1: a decent amount just to move up one spot to
Speaker 1: draft their guy. So it's a little more expensive. I
Speaker 1: hate I despise trading up anyway, Like every anybody that
Speaker 1: listens to me knows, I just I'm not a fan.
Speaker 1: And then it's it's not I don't I ohe. Me
Speaker 1: and Brian do this every year. Brian's always trying to
Speaker 1: get me to get rid of my picks, and I
Speaker 1: can't stand it. But yeah, no, I'm a pickskuy Bucky.
Speaker 1: It's a dartboard and I want as many throws. I
Speaker 1: want as many throws as I can get. But but
Speaker 1: before you freak out, before you freak out, it's not
Speaker 1: a knock. It's not a knock on Patrick's Rtan. I
Speaker 1: will be very I will be very pleased if Patrick's
Speaker 1: Urtan is the pick. I'm just like y'all, though I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that he's like that transcendent considering. Okay,
Speaker 1: only the only nine teams pick in front of you,
Speaker 1: and we know half of them are gonna pick quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Like the first three picks are definitely quarterbacks. Then you
Speaker 1: know Trey Lance and Mac Jones are you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? There? There could be as many as five
Speaker 1: in front of you. There could be as many as five.
Speaker 1: And so you like Patrick's or Tan, Micah Parsons, J C. Horn,
Speaker 1: throw in Kyle Pitts. Why the hell not? Like there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a really great player there. And I just
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to get rid of picks just to
Speaker 1: move up a couple of spots. In no way, No
Speaker 1: I get that that makes sense. I'm not a pick
Speaker 1: quarter I like players. I think you have to. If
Speaker 1: you think about, like what your dream scenario is, like
Speaker 1: you have a handful of players that you would like
Speaker 1: to get and you would move up to get if
Speaker 1: they are within range, then I think you do it.
Speaker 1: But I mean, look as much as we say and
Speaker 1: we break it down, it is a coin flip in
Speaker 1: terms of a picking the player they come in and
Speaker 1: they actually play up to expectation, and so the more
Speaker 1: picks that you have, yes, I just typically like to
Speaker 1: expend those picks. On blue chip players. So if I
Speaker 1: can get up to get what I proceed to be
Speaker 1: a blue chip player, I'm fine. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: necessarily about like all those laid round and all those
Speaker 1: other things Brian maybe I got. Maybe I'll maybe y'all
Speaker 1: learn that in Green Bay. Like Brian would rather pick
Speaker 1: twice in the top fifty and just call it a day,
Speaker 1: or like twice in the top thirty and call it
Speaker 1: all to day. Yeah I disagree, but that's okay. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because because in my mind, like it's the top one
Speaker 1: hundred and if you're really doing it, if you really
Speaker 1: have balls your draft boards, you'd only have like seventy
Speaker 1: five people up there, like because a lot of times
Speaker 1: we talk about like this guy and that guy and hey,
Speaker 1: he's gonna play it whatever, but they didn't day. You know,
Speaker 1: he's not really going to be a player. So like
Speaker 1: just take the good players, put them on the board,
Speaker 1: stack them up as if we're doing the turkey ball,
Speaker 1: and like take those guys off. The rest of the
Speaker 1: guys are not going to be guys. Like I hate
Speaker 1: to say it, but they're not. Like the odds are
Speaker 1: against the being guys. So I would rather not. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say this because it sounds crap. I
Speaker 1: don't want to really waste my time. I don't want
Speaker 1: to do all that. I want the good players, and
Speaker 1: then after the good players, I want to go play golf.
Speaker 1: That's fine that you said that, because that's that's something
Speaker 1: that that's something that Brian taught me, like five years
Speaker 1: ago or whatever. There's seven years ago. He's like, just
Speaker 1: don't don't put the guys on your board. And I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I got this document and I just want to know
Speaker 1: on my board that I watched the guy on tape.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, just don't, don't put him on your
Speaker 1: board if he's not good enough. And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I did watch him. And when we do the
Speaker 1: draft on day three, I would like mark it off
Speaker 1: as we go. But it's a difference in me and
Speaker 1: do it the way I'm doing it for a radio
Speaker 1: show or whatever and NFL War room. You know, no
Speaker 1: that that that that is it. And so seventy five
Speaker 1: is being a little bit extreme. Bill Polian would tell
Speaker 1: you that one hundred they always wanted one hundred or
Speaker 1: fewer on their board. Most guys will tell you one
Speaker 1: twenty five, and then those who were scared will say
Speaker 1: one fifty. But you want to you want to skinny
Speaker 1: it down. I know you guys don't like this because
Speaker 1: you guys are in Texas, but you wanted to look
Speaker 1: like the in and out menu, Like I just want
Speaker 1: can't burger, cheeseburger, fries, this and that. I don't want
Speaker 1: all that other wager. I just don't know water burgers
Speaker 1: yet to pull off the water burger. And you're like, whatever,
Speaker 1: I could get tacos, I could get a burger, I
Speaker 1: could get a chicken sandwich I could get I could
Speaker 1: get butter chicken. But you can't be great. But you
Speaker 1: can't be great with all those things. You can't you
Speaker 1: can't be great with all those things you have to make.
Speaker 1: Just like waffle house. I want to go to waffle
Speaker 1: house and get waffles and eggs. I don't want everything
Speaker 1: else on the menu. By that's why you want the
Speaker 1: board to be skinny. You want skinny. You want four
Speaker 1: picks in the top one hundred. You want a chance
Speaker 1: to add four top one hundred players, not too while.
Speaker 1: While we're we're talking about it though, though, and we're
Speaker 1: putting these metaphors out there. You've always used this, and
Speaker 1: I've heard this from Jaff, I've heard this from Brian.
Speaker 1: But the dartboard. Yeah, I mean you would rather have
Speaker 1: more throws at the dartboard. But what I think Bucky's
Speaker 1: trying to say, would you rather have more throws at
Speaker 1: the dart board or would you rather take a huge
Speaker 1: step right up next to the dartboard and then throw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I get it. I mean there's no better ways
Speaker 1: of hitting. You make the bullseye bigger when you're picking higher. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but guess what, even the surest things flop like this
Speaker 1: is true. This is not an exact yence. Okay, So
Speaker 1: here's the other thing. So my thing is, I want
Speaker 1: top picks, and then I'm bringing a million undrafted free
Speaker 1: agents because if you go and you study the rosters,
Speaker 1: undrafted free agents are making it at a higher level
Speaker 1: than these later round picks. And so if I do
Speaker 1: a really good job of nailing the ones early, then
Speaker 1: I want as many undrafted free agents as I can
Speaker 1: find because I can bring those guys in. They cost
Speaker 1: me nothing, and if we have a great developmental program,
Speaker 1: we'll get some guys as opposed to a just slinging
Speaker 1: it around the yard trying to get these late round picks.
Speaker 1: I will say, make sure that I get some bicy ketchup,
Speaker 1: you know, and absolutely just another reason water Burgers better.
Speaker 1: I just I, oh my gosh, I oh man, I
Speaker 1: would say, so much work for me to do. Now
Speaker 1: I'll get out of the Bucky. We'll show you. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: I just from North Carolina. You're not even like a
Speaker 1: California loyalist, like it's it's not even like it's a
Speaker 1: it's a cross country thing for you. Why why are
Speaker 1: you lying with the wrong Yeah, you would expect Bucky
Speaker 1: to be a cookout guy. Yeah, you'd be totally a
Speaker 1: cookout guy. Oh no, no, no no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm from the cookout No. Yes, okay, that's fair and Bucky.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we are a little too proud of Texas. Let's
Speaker 1: be on. Hey, I'm not even from Texas, and I
Speaker 1: will lay it all on the line for water Burger.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying anyway, I just want to stay for
Speaker 1: the record before like we're completely off the rails. But
Speaker 1: I don't think they'll make all ten picks. No, I
Speaker 1: don't think so. But I just hope that they hold
Speaker 1: on to the big one. Like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: get rid of any of the at least the first
Speaker 1: three four, top one hundred. If you want to move
Speaker 1: ninety nine, you're not gonna break my heart, but at
Speaker 1: least hold onto the top three picks. Well, that'll be
Speaker 1: interesting to see if the Cowboys think the same way
Speaker 1: as either David Hellman or Bucky Brooks or Kevin Turner,
Speaker 1: if whoever ends subsiding, it'll be fun. One more thing, Bucky,
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I was just saying, like he's talking
Speaker 1: about the top four picks. I was like, look, if
Speaker 1: they close up shop and they get four in the
Speaker 1: top one hundred and they don't have anything on day three,
Speaker 1: Like I would be okay with that. I would like
Speaker 1: to move up and target like four impact players as
Speaker 1: opposed to just accumulating stuff. And let's just think about
Speaker 1: like de Riggie Robinson pick, like coming in as a
Speaker 1: fourth rounder and he played one defensive snap right last year,
Speaker 1: and so like, you want immediate impact, particularly where the
Speaker 1: team is now. You want guys that can come in
Speaker 1: and come right into the program and make a contribution. Gosh,
Speaker 1: that Reggie Robinson picks still hurts. It really does every time.
Speaker 1: I know, but after this patch year kind of hurt
Speaker 1: me a little bit. It's just let him play. I
Speaker 1: don't get it. I agree, I just let him do something.
Speaker 1: But he didn't have it. He didn't have a preseason
Speaker 1: or a training camp. And it's not Hey, we don't
Speaker 1: have any switch positions. We don't close the book on
Speaker 1: guys after one year. I like that, Dave. That makes
Speaker 1: me feel like those. That makes me feel a lot better.
Speaker 1: But that's gonna do it for us. You're on the
Speaker 1: Draft Show. Sorry Chris being for keeping you a little
Speaker 1: bit longer today. I know you've got a show coming
Speaker 1: up here in a little bit. But for Bucky Brooks,
Speaker 1: for Kevin kat Turner, for David Helm and I'm Kyle Yeomans.
Speaker 1: Once again, we're shifting up the crew. It'll be completely
Speaker 1: different next week on the Draft Show Tuesday Thursday. I
Speaker 1: haven't looked at it yet, don't ask me. I might
Speaker 1: throw it out on Twitter. But that's gonna do it
Speaker 1: for us today. We'll see you next week on the
Speaker 1: Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.