1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: We have like girls' night once once a month. We 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: get together and we get food and one time we've 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: did all of our nails. So it's like we get 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: to make fun of people that are pregnant sometimes, or 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: make fun of people who don't understand IVF a little bit. 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like we use dark humor. We 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: also just laugh because that is the way you survive it. 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: But it's been life saving. It's been absolutely life saving. 9 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: I mean, my husband's wonderful and he can listen to 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: me all day long, but at the end of the 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: day he cannot comprehend, whereas I can call you guys, 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 2: and you will spiral with me all the way down 13 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: and then bring me right back up, and that's what 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: I need. 15 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 3: That's so we literally laugh and cry together. 16 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: We just understand. We don't have to explain anything, Like 17 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: if we say this is how we're feeling, we understand 18 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: it completely. 19 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 4: In August twenty twenty four, about four months after the 20 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 4: Center for Reproductive Health closed, I flew to Nashville to 21 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 4: meet with some of the former patients of the clinic, 22 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 4: so Sarah Davis and Penny co Sarah and Penny didn't 23 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 4: know each other, before all this happened, but they became 24 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 4: fast friends. They were in similar situations. Both had been 25 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 4: undergoing iuis at COH, not in vitro fertilization, so unlike 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 4: many former patients, neither had embryos in storage there, sparing 27 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 4: them the agony of wondering whether their genetic material was safe, 28 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 4: but that didn't make the experience any easier. Both women 29 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 4: still felt deeply violated by what had happened at the 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 4: clinic and were trying to figure out how to move forward. 31 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 4: I purposely planned my trip to coincide with the hearing 32 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 4: in the state's consumer protection case against doctor hime Vasquez 33 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 4: and the Center for Reproductive Health. I didn't know if 34 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 4: he'd show up, but I was hopeful I might be 35 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 4: able to meet him to get his side of the story. 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 4: I met up with Penny and Sarah before heading to 37 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 4: the courthouse. 38 00:01:58,680 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Oh do you like my earrings? 39 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 5: You like my earring? Do you know what they are? 40 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: Yes? 41 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: I know, I'm like slightly rebellion. 42 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 4: In honor of the court hearing, Penny was wearing special 43 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 4: earrings shaped like vulvas, handmade in shades of pink and cream, 44 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 4: with a pearl suspended in the middle. They were a 45 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 4: quiet act of protest, a statement that women's bodies and 46 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 4: healthcare should not be hidden away or shamed, but seen 47 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 4: and respected. 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: Being in a red state, I just don't think women's 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: healthcare is where it should be. I think we're in 50 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: the top five for some of the worst women's healthcare. 51 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: Most likely to die in the state we are if 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: you're pregnant. 53 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: Which is terrifying. And I usually fall on the more 54 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: conservative side, but after all this, I'm like, no, I'm 55 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: falling more moderate, but I'm m advocating more on the 56 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: other side, which I don't like sides, but I would pick, 57 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, women's healthcare. 58 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 3: It's opened my eyes politically. 59 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 4: Later that morning, we drove downtown the hearing and squeezed 60 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 4: into the elevator together. 61 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 6: Oh my god, this is a. 62 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: Very Did everybody wear deodorant? 63 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 6: I can't cross, I'm not I'm sweaty. I wouldn't be 64 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 6: nervous to Sevasquez. 65 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 7: I've never seen him before. 66 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 6: You realized I've never met him. 67 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: I've seen his name. 68 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 4: Penny's offhand remark about having never met Vasquez revealed to 69 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 4: me in that moment how truly strange it was. The 70 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 4: person at the center of all this turmoil, who loomed 71 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 4: so large in their lives, was essentially a stranger. The 72 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 4: irony was the moment we exited the elevator we spotted 73 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 4: doctor Vasquez, though we didn't realize it right away. 74 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 8: He looks just like that doctor. 75 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 5: Same he. 76 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: But it looks very similar now, she said, that's him. 77 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 4: It was indeed, doctor Vazquez. 78 00:03:59,200 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 7: Un left. 79 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 4: He was in a blue shirt and striped tie, with 80 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 4: wire rimmed glasses perched slow on his nose, and he 81 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 4: looked weary as he entered the courtroom, surrounded by his lawyers. 82 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 4: We followed him in and took a seat at the 83 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 4: back where all the former patients sat. I watched him 84 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: during the proceedings, hoping for some sign of what he 85 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 4: was thinking or how he felt, but there was none. 86 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 4: So when the judge called a recess, I took my shot. 87 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: I approached him in the hallway and introduced myself, asking 88 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 4: for an interview. I could rupt this for one second. 89 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I just wanted to introduce myself. 90 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 6: I'm Melissa Jelson. 91 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 4: I'm a reporter and I'm working on a story about 92 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 4: this case. He didn't respond. His attorney spoke for him instead. 93 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 4: I just wanted to see if you wanted. 94 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 7: To talk any of your No. 95 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: Not right now? 96 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 5: Is that? Yes? 97 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? 98 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 4: And I'm working on a project that will take his 99 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 4: months in the making. 100 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 6: You will obviously want to represent your position. 101 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 7: If you can give me a court. 102 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 5: Respond Thank you. 103 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 4: So I did. Eventually hear back from his lawyer, but 104 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 4: doctor Vazgez, the man so many patients want answers from 105 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 4: who I want answers from declined to talk to me 106 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 4: directly to try to understand why his clinic shut down. 107 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 4: I'd have to do more digging. I'm Melissa Jelson from 108 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 4: School of Humans and iHeart podcasts. This is what happened 109 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 4: in Nashville Episode five, The Unraveling At its core, This 110 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 4: podcast is about the patients left reeling when the Center 111 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 4: for Reproductive Health suddenly closed its doors. The fallout touched 112 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 4: every part of their lives, their hopes for children, their savings, 113 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 4: their marriages, their families. But behind their stores es lies 114 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 4: a mystery. What went so wrong inside CRH? How does 115 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 4: a fertility clinic with decades of experience collapse overnight? And 116 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: if warning signs existed, why did no one act, especially 117 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 4: the man running it. Although doctor Vasquez declined to speak 118 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,799 Speaker 4: to me directly, one of his lawyers, Dixie Cooper, agreed 119 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 4: to talk and we spoke on the phone for over 120 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 4: an hour. Though she didn't want me to use her audio. Still, 121 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 4: I was able to piece together Vazquez's account of the 122 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 4: circumstances surrounding the closure from my conversation with Cooper and 123 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 4: from court filings. What you'll hear next is parts of 124 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 4: a declaration he wrote explaining his version of events, and 125 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 4: other court documents read by a voice actor. 126 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 9: The Center for Reproductive Hill was a family business from 127 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 9: its inception, with my wife Nancy stepping into serve as 128 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 9: a practice administrator. Within a year of the clinic company, 129 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 9: Missus Vaskus continued working at CRH four twenty years. 130 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 4: Vasquez describes himself as a committed, hard working doctor who 131 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 4: ran a small business with his wife Nancy without any 132 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 4: significant issues for decades, and there's some evidence to suggest 133 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 4: that's mostly true. During the course of reporting this story, 134 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 4: I talked to over a dozen patients, all of whom 135 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 4: had good reasons for picking CRCH. Some were referred by 136 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 4: their doctors, others did their due diligence, reading as many 137 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 4: online reviews as they could, and some patients met with 138 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 4: doctors at different fertility clinics in Nashville and just felt 139 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: that CRCH was the best fit. As Vasquez tells it, 140 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 4: everything changed after twenty nineteen when his wife, Nancy stepped 141 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: down due to health problems and was later diagnosed with 142 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 4: Alzheimer's disease. Without her running the business side, Vazquez says 143 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 4: the clinics' finances began to decline. To keep the doors open, 144 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 4: he claimed he had to use his own money to 145 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 4: keep it Afloat Dixie Cooper told me that vascaz is 146 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 4: a very smart man, but not a good business person. 147 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 4: He was focused on patients, not on the money side 148 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 4: of things, and when financial problems did occur, he tried 149 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 4: to solve them himself. 150 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 9: When c our Age experienced financial challenges, my wife and 151 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 9: I put a significant amount of time, energy, effort, and 152 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 9: our own money into the practice over the years, always 153 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 9: trying to ensure the best quality of treatment, continuity of 154 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 9: care for patients, and that employees will be pair family. 155 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 9: We incur personal debt into the form of our home 156 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 9: maquity loan and multiple other personal loans in order to 157 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 9: help see our age and the other affiliated businesses remain 158 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 9: financially stable. 159 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 4: Doctor vaskaz said he stopped getting any form of compensation 160 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: from the clinic around mid August twenty twenty three. 161 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 9: I chose to forego a salary for the entire time 162 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 9: from August twenty twenty three until the clinic was placing 163 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 9: into a core ordered receiveship on April twenty six, twenty 164 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 9: twenty four. I did this in and effort to preserve 165 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 9: the continuity of care for patients and to ensure that employees. 166 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 4: Will be paid. He said he didn't realize the clinic 167 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: was so close to running out of money until his 168 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 4: daughter Elena, started looking closely at the books in April 169 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. 170 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 9: Despite the employee as a medical director and working every 171 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 9: business day to make money to pay crh's obligations to 172 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 9: employees and onsite vendors, foroe going as salary was not 173 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 9: enough to financially stabilize CRH. 174 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 4: Vazka has denied that any financial malfeasons on his behalf 175 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 4: had occurred. Instead, he blamed other more junior employees for 176 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 4: mismanaging funds. 177 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 9: Former employees of CRH who I trust to be honest 178 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 9: and ethical in performing their jobs and in the management 179 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 9: of the money coming in to the practice. We're engaging 180 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 9: in an appropriate behavior that I learned about when the 181 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 9: practice had to seize business due to lack of funds 182 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 9: in April of twenty twenty four. Those actions include not 183 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 9: submtium bills for payments by insurance companies and self pay, 184 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 9: given unauthorized races to various individuals in the practice, and 185 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 9: taking unauthorized trips using the CRCH bredit card, all of 186 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 9: which contribute to CRH being unable to make payroll, resulting 187 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 9: in CRH having to close the practice. 188 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 4: His lawyer, Dixie Cooper, repeated this in her interview with me, 189 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 4: claiming that several employees were intent on sabotaging the clinic 190 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 4: and taking Vascuz down. She told me that after the 191 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 4: clinic shut down, Vasquez's top priority was keeping the embryo safe. 192 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 4: She said he went into the clinic every day personally 193 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 4: checking the tanks and disputed the state inspectors claim that 194 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 4: he'd handled them improperly. More broadly, Cooper criticized the state's 195 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 4: lawsuit against Vasquez, claiming it included false and exaggerated allegations 196 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 4: against her client, inciting unnecessary panic. She also said that 197 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 4: in the days after the closure, Vazquez had been working 198 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 4: to find a local clinic to buy CRCH and take over, 199 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 4: but the deal was scuttled because the state froze Vasquez's 200 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 4: assets and installed a receiver despite my knowledge and experienced. 201 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 9: Not only was I never consulted for guidance to expedite 202 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 9: the process, I was completely shut out of this practice, 203 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 9: with no access to my office space, the medical records, 204 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 9: or any other information located at CRCH. 205 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 4: Cooper explained that after the receivership began, Vasquez and his 206 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 4: legal team lost access to the clinics records, leaving them 207 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 4: unable to verify details, challenged the state's claims, or properly 208 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: defend themselves. She also added that doctor Vasquez is deeply 209 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 4: sorry for what happened and wishes it had never occurred. 210 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 4: She said he even offered the state what little money 211 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 4: he had left to reimburse patients who paid for services 212 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: they didn't receive, but the state never responded. He has 213 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 4: since declared bankruptcy. In Cooper's telling, the whole situation is 214 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 4: a tragedy, one that's harmed both doctor Vazquez and his patients. 215 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 4: She argues that he's a well meaning, well intentioned professional 216 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 4: who just got in over his head due to the 217 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 4: actions of wayward employees. I wasn't sure what to make 218 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 4: of this. It felt a bit to me like passing 219 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: the buck. As the owner and medical director, Vazquez was 220 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 4: the one in charge. I wanted to see what his 221 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 4: former employees had to say, and I reached out to 222 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 4: more than a dozen of them, hoping to understand their 223 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 4: perspective and to learn more about how the clinic operated 224 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 4: in its final years, but most didn't respond. Letters and 225 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 4: emails went unanswered. Eventually, though, one woman agreed to talk 226 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: a former lab employee whom doctor Vasquez has accused of 227 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 4: trying to destroy his practice, and she tells a very 228 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 4: different story. 229 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 5: I have actually gone through treatments myself to get my baby, 230 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 5: and so I know like how emotionally invested you can get. 231 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 4: Marie began her job at the Center for Reproductive Health 232 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two. Because she still works in the industry, 233 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 4: she asked us to use a pseudonym. We've also modified 234 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,359 Speaker 4: her voice to protect her identity. 235 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 5: Society tells women that your job and your goal as 236 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 5: a woman is to be a mother, and I was 237 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 5: one of those people and that had that ingrained, and 238 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 5: so who was really frustrating to be like, well, my 239 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 5: body doesn't work on the way that it's supposed too. 240 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 4: Marie was hired to work in the lab. It was 241 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 4: her first real job after getting her bachelor's degree in biochemistry, 242 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 4: and she was excited to learn the ropes. 243 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 5: I worked in both parts of the lab, so andrology 244 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 5: and ebriology, and then I also did all the ordering 245 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 5: for the lab stuff. I also kept up with any 246 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 5: tracking that we needed to for inspections, so for both 247 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 5: cap FDA inspections, like any documentation or records, and then 248 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 5: when we did things like the genetic testing and the 249 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 5: PGT reports came back, I was typically the person who 250 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 5: called the patients with like their fertilization reports and stuff 251 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 5: like that. 252 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 4: At first, Marie loved the job. 253 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 5: Being able to help people like use science in such 254 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 5: a cool, a niche way that enables them to reach 255 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 5: their goals and dreams. In that way, it was great. 256 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 4: The work was intense in the hour were long, but 257 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 4: Marie bonded with the other employees over the high stakes. 258 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 4: They were, after all, helping to create life. 259 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 5: When we were in cycle, it was really stressful because 260 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 5: we had a lot of patients and a lot of 261 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 5: work to do. We spent a lot of late nights there, 262 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 5: like six seven o'clock at night. Was not uncommon to 263 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 5: leave when we had gotten there at like eight o'clock 264 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 5: in the morning. I remember one cycle ended up being 265 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 5: so big that we took shifts and people came in 266 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 5: in like four hour blocks. And then when we were 267 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 5: out of cycle, we did a lot of paperwork and 268 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 5: it was a lot more chill. 269 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 4: The staff were genuinely close, lending a warmth to the 270 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 4: whole operation. 271 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 5: We were a big family. We all had lunch in 272 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 5: the lunch room together. There were several employees who hung 273 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 5: out after work together in different groups. There were a 274 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 5: couple of medical assistants who ended up getting married who 275 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 5: had other employees like as bridesmaids in their wedding and 276 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 5: things like that. 277 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 4: Marie told me she'd enjoyed the sense of community she 278 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 4: found at the clinic, but professionally it wasn't what she'd 279 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 4: hoped for. She'd expected hands on mentoring and real training, 280 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 4: but the place felt rudderless by the time she arrived 281 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 4: Vazkez's wife, Nancy, had already left, and Marie said no 282 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 4: one seemed to really be in charge. Staff were left 283 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 4: to manage the day to day on their own, with 284 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 4: little oversight or direction. Doctor Vazkez didn't seem especially interested 285 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 4: in teaching, she said, and there was no full time 286 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 4: senior embryologist on staff. When per diem embryologists came in 287 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: a few days each month for egg retrievals or embryo transfers, 288 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 4: Marie would pepper them with questions, trying to absorb as 289 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 4: much as she could before they left again. Most of 290 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 4: the time it felt like she was learning on her own. 291 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 5: It was a lot of reading protocols and following Britain instructions. 292 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 5: I signed up for additional training and took some online courses. 293 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 5: The plan was to eventually be certified in both andrology 294 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 5: and embryology, and so those courses were like part of 295 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 5: that path towards it. 296 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 4: After about a year and a half at the clinic, 297 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 4: Marie realized she could no longer work there. She felt 298 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 4: there was no room to grow professionally, and she says 299 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 4: she'd started to notice things that made her feel uneasy. 300 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 4: Patients being told inaccurate information about their embryos, staff stretched 301 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 4: too thin, and protocols that seemed to shift depending on 302 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 4: the day. 303 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 5: The hour started getting later and later. You shouldn't be 304 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 5: working more than eight hours because your eyes are going 305 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 5: to get tired. You need, you know, those breaks so 306 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 5: that you can rest and recover. Make sure that you're 307 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 5: staying at your best so that you can give the 308 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 5: patients the best and most accurate care possible. We started 309 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 5: dropping witnessing, which was concerning. 310 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 4: Marie said. The clinic had stopped consistently doing what's called 311 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 4: human witnessing, which is where a second person observes lab 312 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 4: procedures as quality control. 313 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 5: Verifying that you are moving the right eggs into the 314 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 5: right dish for the right patient, and then when they 315 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 5: become embryos, that you're using the right sperm that they've 316 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 5: signed for. 317 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 4: As she saw it, employees were overworked, some were doing 318 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 4: jobs they weren't trained for. To her, it reflected a 319 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 4: culture of cutting corners, a looseness with the rules that 320 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 4: made mistakes feel not just possible, but inevitable. I asked 321 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 4: her what it was like to be inside the clinic 322 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 4: at that point, believing it was starting to come apart 323 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 4: and knowing how much patients were counting on them. You, 324 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 4: as someone who went through Fertility Tree, would you have 325 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 4: been comfortable at that stage choosing Center for Reproductive Health 326 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 4: as your clinic. 327 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 5: No, but I had insider knowledge and a lot of 328 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 5: that information wasn't available to patients on the outside. 329 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 4: In early twenty twenty four, Marie put in her notice 330 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 4: and she wasn't the only one. A lot of other employees, also, 331 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 4: frustrated by the working conditions, were leaving. 332 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 5: Towards the end, more and more people were starting to 333 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 5: put in their notices as well, and those positions weren't 334 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 5: being filled or replaced. The smaller clinic, you have a 335 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 5: person doing multiple positions, and so when one person leads, 336 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 5: it's essentially like five positions that you're trying to fill 337 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 5: but with one person, and then that's not being replaced. 338 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 5: And then there are multiple of these scenarios in different 339 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 5: aspects of the clinic, like on the laboratory side, on 340 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 5: the clinical side, on the financial side, all different sides 341 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 5: this was happening. It was like a Okay, there's not 342 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 5: going to be anybody left to hold this clinic up, 343 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 5: Like it's going to fall. We could see it coming, 344 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 5: and so if we could see it coming, then there's 345 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 5: no reason doctor Rascus didn't see it coming. 346 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 4: In court documents, doctor vask has claimed that Marie was 347 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 4: one of the disgruntled employees responsible for the clinic's financial ruin. 348 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 4: She denied the allegations and said that she had no 349 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 4: responsibilities involving billing, insurance, or other financial matters. Doctor Vasquez 350 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 4: also accused her of organizing the staff against him by 351 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 4: encouraging them to quit their jobs. Marie told me that 352 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 4: she did advise some employees to resign before they got 353 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 4: themselves into ethically or legally dubious professional situations. 354 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 5: There were a couple of people who I worked with 355 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 5: who when I found out that they weren't going to 356 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 5: interview or hire for my position, I was like, I 357 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 5: would recommend that y'all also leave so that you are 358 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 5: not like stock or trapped in doing a lot of 359 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 5: these things that you're not qualified or trained for. You 360 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 5: could potentially have negative repercussions for your career later down 361 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 5: the road. 362 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 4: Another employee who put in their notice around the same 363 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 4: time as Marie was doctor Ferrara Dyer, who was hired 364 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty. You may remember Dire from episode three. 365 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 4: He's the one who did his medical training in the 366 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 4: UK and was practicing at CRH as a fellow. Though 367 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 4: some patients I interviewed were under the impression he was 368 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 4: their licensed doctor, he agreed to speak with me on 369 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 4: the record with his attorney present. I asked him about 370 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 4: the patients I'd spoken to who felt like they hadn't 371 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 4: been treated with honesty. Here's what he said. 372 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 8: The journey for fertility medicine is an emotional and as 373 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 8: long and as our joous and and stuff. I just 374 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 8: hope that patients don't get discouraged because they feel as 375 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 8: though something went wrong with their treatment and my involvement 376 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 8: in it, when I know that there was nothing wrong 377 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 8: with my treatment and involvement with their process. 378 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 5: True to be. 379 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 8: Told, Looking backwards, I think that we helped a lot 380 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 8: of people. 381 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 4: Dyer told me that the entire reason he started working 382 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 4: at CRH was because doctor Vasquez had promised to help 383 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 4: him get his license. Except according to Dyer, Vasquez kept 384 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 4: pushing the goalposts, saying he needed to work as a 385 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 4: fellow for two years, then four, then five before Vasquez 386 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 4: would sponsor him. 387 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 8: I go in with Vasquez March the first of twenty 388 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 8: twenty and by the time I get to March of 389 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 8: twenty twenty four, he says that I need to have 390 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 8: another year. So his threat to me was, I don't 391 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 8: believe that you have completed all the curriculum that would 392 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 8: show that you were proficient enough to be your own 393 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 8: reproductive and a chronologists. I want you to give me 394 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 8: another year. I'm going to pay you fellowship money, which 395 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 8: is not a lot of money, and then you still 396 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 8: will work for me, and then we'll go next year 397 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 8: to the state. 398 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 4: As we explored in episode three, it's unclear how this 399 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 4: arrangement would have led to dire attaining licensure. Still, he 400 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 4: says that was his belief. 401 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 8: Emotionally, it's sort of tough where you put in four years, 402 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 8: somebody gives you a promise and then you know that 403 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 8: they're going to renee go on the promise. Not to 404 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 8: say that you give up, but you sort of lose 405 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 8: the passion that you had for said clinic. 406 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 4: I asked doctor Vazquez's attorney for more information about any 407 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 4: assistance he provided Tore in gaining licensure and to respond 408 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 4: to Diyer's claims, but didn't hear back. Dyer says that 409 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 4: beyond his waning confidence in Vazquez's promises, he was also 410 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 4: dealing with complications from type one diabetes. These factors combined 411 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 4: told him it was time to leave. 412 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 8: That had started with renal failure, that had gone blind, 413 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 8: and then I due to diabetic rednopathy, which I actually 414 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 8: got corrected. So I wrote a letter of resignation in January, 415 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 8: and then I told him, hey, I'll stay until my 416 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 8: four years are up in March. And then at that 417 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 8: point he sort of stopped talking to me. I stopped 418 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 8: seeing his patients in late February, and then I had 419 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 8: to write up all of my charts and whatnot, and 420 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 8: I was out by March twenty ninth. 421 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 4: Both Marie and Dire quit before the final stretch of 422 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 4: the clinics operation, when things really went downhill. I wasn't 423 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 4: able to speak to any employee about those last days 424 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 4: of practice, but I know that Vazkez hired a new 425 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 4: junior embryologist, Jasmine Bills, less than a month before the 426 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 4: clinic shut down. She described her experience at CRCH in 427 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 4: an affidavit which was filed in the state's consumer protection 428 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 4: case against the clinic. Here, a voice actor reads parts 429 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 4: of her statement. 430 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: My dream job was to work in embryology. 431 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 4: Jasmine said. Her training consisted of three to four days 432 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 4: at CRH, learning from an embryologist who worked on a 433 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 4: par deem basis at the clinic. 434 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 3: My first official day at the center was March twenty fifth, 435 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. It seems like the staff didn't know 436 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 3: how to direct me for this position due to it 437 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 3: being outside their scope of practice. I started looking at 438 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: training manuals from the World Health Organization because I didn't 439 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 3: know what the best practices were. Although I was the 440 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 3: junior embryologist, the center didn't have a full time senior 441 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 3: embriologist on staff. I was never given a comprehensive overview 442 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 3: of lab safety procedures. I just picked things up from 443 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 3: the employees who were training me. 444 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 4: It was Jasmine's job to analyze sperm samples and prepare 445 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 4: them for intra uterine insemination procedures. She was also responsible 446 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 4: for maintaining the cryogenic tanks. 447 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 3: The alarms on the storage tanks go off if the 448 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 3: tank's liquid nitrogen levels fall below a certain threshold, and 449 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 3: if there isn't enough nitrogen the embryos in the genetic 450 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 3: material could start to thaw and become non viable. An 451 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 3: alarm company had a list of people to call if 452 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 3: the alarms went off, but I was told the staff 453 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 3: weren't sure who was on the alarm call list because 454 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: of all the staff turnover, and to my knowledge, I 455 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 3: was not on the storage tank alarm call list. 456 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 4: Jasmine had only been officially working at the clinic for 457 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 4: less than two weeks when she, liked the rest of 458 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 4: the staff, got an email from doctor Vazquez's daughter, Elena, 459 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 4: saying that the staff would not be paid due to 460 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 4: lack of funds. She came into work the following day regardless. 461 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 3: I asked doctor Vasquez what was going to happen with 462 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 3: the sinner and being paid, but he didn't respond. He 463 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 3: just looked at me. I decided to gather my things 464 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: and leave. 465 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 4: Still, Jasmine says she decided to come back to the 466 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 4: shuttered clinic the following week to prepare some specimens for transfer, 467 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 4: including it seems Sydney's embryos. 468 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 3: Before it became evident I was not going to be paid, 469 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 3: I'd accepted embryo and sperm transfers, and I felt morally 470 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 3: obligated to complete those transfer requests, even though it was 471 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 3: unlikely for me to get paid for that work. 472 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 4: While at the closed clinic, she checked the liquid nitrogen 473 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 4: levels in the tanks. They were low, she wrote, though 474 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 4: they hadn't yet reached dangerous levels. She filled them up 475 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 4: before she left, but didn't mark it in the records 476 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 4: as she was no longer technically an employee. This was 477 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 4: the last time she set foot in the Center for 478 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 4: Reproductive Health. 479 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 3: I never received any communication from doctor Basquez or any 480 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 3: other CICH administrators about when I would be paid. I 481 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 3: could not apply for unemployment because I never got a 482 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 3: paycheck from CICH. My first paycheck was supposed to be 483 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 3: on April fifth. I'm back working at the pharmacy I 484 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 3: was at previously, but in a lower position. 485 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 4: According to Jasmine's affidavit, doctor Vasquez appeared to be confused 486 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 4: about the clinic's deteriorating situation. Her account was echoed by 487 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 4: several patients who were called being told that operations were 488 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 4: merely on hold or experiencing low volume, as if normalcy 489 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 4: would soon return. One patient, Jacqueline Locke, told me about 490 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 4: a zoom meeting she had with doctor Vasquez on April third, 491 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, the day before staff were notified there 492 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 4: were no remaining funds to cover their pay. 493 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 6: The call with him was to kind of go over 494 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 6: what our next steps would be. I hopped on the 495 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 6: call with him after he was like at least two 496 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 6: hours late, and he had no idea what the purpose 497 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 6: of the call was. I was thinking that we were 498 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 6: getting some really helpful information that was going to help 499 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 6: us move forward and get to our goal. 500 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 4: The call went on for an hour and a half. 501 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: Jacqueline told me she struggled to follow doctor Vasquez's train 502 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 4: of thought. She'd already done two egg retrievals with him 503 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 4: and was debating whether to try again. It wasn't a 504 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 4: simple choice. She lives in Canada, so another round meant 505 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 4: more flights for her, her husband and their small children, 506 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 4: more time away from work, more strain on her body, 507 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 4: and more money they didn't really have to spend. And 508 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 4: through it all, Vazquez never said a word about the 509 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 4: clinic's financial trouble or that it might not even be 510 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 4: open much longer. 511 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 6: That makes me feel sick to my stomach. I really 512 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 6: don't understand what went on in his head. 513 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 4: Doctor Vasquez tells the story as an abrupt fall, a 514 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 4: good clinic suddenly running into financial trouble. In his version, 515 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 4: everything changed when his wife left in twenty nineteen and 516 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 4: the business began to slip. But based on my reporting, 517 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 4: that's not entirely true. I dug into the public records 518 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 4: related to the clinic to get a glimpse at what 519 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 4: was happening behind the scenes. This ended up being fairly complicated, 520 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 4: as there's no one government agency that regulates fertility clinics. 521 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 4: I was able to get some reports from the Tennessee 522 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 4: Department of Health, which inspected the clinic every other year, 523 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 4: as well as reports from the FDA, which inspects clinics 524 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 4: that handle donated reproductive tissue, eggs, sperm, that kind of thing. 525 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 4: According to the Tennessee Department of Health, the clinic had 526 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 4: been cited for deficiencies at least twice in the years 527 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 4: before doctor Vasquez's wife left. In two thousand and seven, 528 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 4: state inspectors discovered that one of the clinic's nurses did 529 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 4: not have documented training for two tests that she'd been 530 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 4: routinely performing. They also noted a couple of instances where 531 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 4: the clinic was not adhering to recommended quality control testing practices. 532 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 4: In twenty ten, state inspectors found that the clinic had 533 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 4: been using an expired solution to test Seaman samples for 534 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 4: about a month and a half. This meant there was 535 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 4: no reliable way to confirm the test was working or 536 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 4: that any of the patient results from that period were accurate. 537 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 4: The Federal inspection records reveal more troubling observations. In twenty seventeen, 538 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 4: FDA inspectors found that the clinic wasn't properly screening or 539 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 4: evaluating donors for infectious diseases. For example, they learned that 540 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 4: the clinic did not test all egg donors for Zeka 541 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 4: as required. They also documented one case where an egg 542 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 4: donor had been treated for chlamydia but was not tested 543 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 4: to see if she had recovered prior to her donating. 544 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 4: The FDA noted that the clinic didn't have appropriate procedures 545 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 4: in place for how donor screening and eligibility decisions should 546 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 4: be done. This matters because donor screening is what protects 547 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 4: patients from using sperm or eggs that carry infectious diseases 548 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 4: or serious genetic conditions. In twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two, 549 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 4: FDA inspectors went back to the clinic and found similar issues, 550 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 4: donors not screened properly before allowing them to donate, and 551 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 4: inadequate paperwork documenting required testing. The FDA classified all three 552 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 4: inspections from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty two as VAI, 553 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 4: meaning voluntary action indicated, a category used when violations are 554 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 4: objectionable but the agency believes that the clinic can correct 555 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 4: them without formal enforcement action. About a month before the 556 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 4: clinic shut down in April twenty twenty four, the FDA 557 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 4: inspected once more. This time they discovered that some donor 558 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 4: files still contained patient's real names, a breach of privacy 559 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 4: rules meant to protect both donors and recipients. Over the years, 560 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 4: the deficiencies the state and FDA documented did not trigger 561 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 4: serious action. They were considered minor fixable, not enough to 562 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 4: cause urgent concern. But these shortcomings did at times trickle 563 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 4: down to the patient experience. As Peter Ricci and his 564 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 4: wife learned in their time at RH. 565 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 7: The worst irony when it comes to our experience with 566 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 7: Centers for Reproductive Health is that our initial experiences were 567 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 7: actually very good. 568 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 4: Peter is a thirty six year old writer and editor 569 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 4: and his wife first went to the Center for Reproductive 570 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 4: Health in twenty twenty two. 571 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 7: My wife is an ovarian cancer survivor, so we knew 572 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 7: from when we started dating that we would have to 573 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 7: find alternate means to be parents, which is something we 574 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 7: both very much want to do. 575 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 4: At the time, they were living in Nashville and were 576 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 4: drawn to doctor Vazquez's egg and embryo donation program called 577 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 4: American Embryo Adoption Agency or AEAA. 578 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 7: We're really impressed with Center for Reproductive Health and the 579 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 7: number of egg donors they had, and our early interactions 580 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 7: with them were actually very encouraging. 581 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 4: Their plan was to purchase donor eggs and use peter 582 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 4: sperm to create embryos for a surrogate. 583 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 7: They had an extensive database we were able to look 584 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 7: through and see who we could potentially be matched with. 585 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 7: My wife is African Americans, so we liked that there 586 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 7: were black donors who we were able to consider because 587 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 7: we thought, ideally, will have a biracial child, then that 588 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 7: will match what a biological child of ours might have 589 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 7: looked like. 590 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 4: In the summer of twenty twenty two, they obtained eight eggs. 591 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,959 Speaker 4: Seven were successfully fertilized with peter sperm, but only one 592 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 4: developed into a healthy embryo. They were disappointed, but not deterred. 593 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 4: As a backup, they began considering the purchase of additional 594 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 4: donor embryos just in case they needed them. 595 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 7: It was when my wife was looking back on the 596 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 7: CRCH database to see about purchasing embryos that she saw 597 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 7: the profile for the person whose eggs we had used 598 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 7: for our own creation, and she recognized the photo. She 599 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 7: could tell that it was the same person, but this 600 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 7: time around, there was a disclaimer on the profile that 601 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 7: they were a silent carrier for a spinal disorder. 602 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 6: Ian. 603 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 7: This was not something that was on the profile when 604 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 7: we considered it, and it was not something that they 605 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 7: had reached out to us to say. 606 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 4: The egg donor Peter and his wife had used to 607 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 4: create an embryo was a silent carrier of alpha thalacemia, 608 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 4: a blood disorder, and spinal muscular atrophy, a genetic neuromuscular disease. 609 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 4: Peter's wife sent an email to CRCH asking for more information, 610 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 4: like why they were not told about the donor's status 611 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 4: when they purchased the eggs. The CICH employee who responded 612 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 4: said that the donor was not tested at the time. 613 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 4: It wasn't until quote much later that this information became available. 614 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 4: The disorders the donor carried were recessive. They would only 615 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 4: pose a risk if Peter was also a carrier, and 616 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 4: he wasn't, so they decided they would still move forward 617 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 4: with their one embryo. By this point, the couple had 618 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 4: moved to Chicago. They began the process of trying to 619 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 4: move the embryo from CRCH to their fertility clinic in Illinois. 620 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 7: We're working with the new clinic and they begin going 621 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 7: through a rigorous process to evaluate that embryo. And it 622 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 7: was through that process that we learned a number of 623 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 7: things involved in the creation of an embryo, and then 624 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 7: the different things that were not done that CIH should 625 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 7: have done. For starters, there was no record of CRH 626 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 7: compiling what's called a summary of records. Now, what that 627 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 7: basically means is it's a summary of my healthcare information 628 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 7: relevant to embryo creation, so an easy list of things 629 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 7: for a clinic to look over and to say, Okay, 630 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 7: everything is good. They were unable to produce a summary 631 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 7: of records. They just weren't able to provide it. 632 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 4: After extensive review, the Chicago clinic said it would not 633 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 4: accept the embryo for two reasons, one because it was 634 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 4: missing the summary of records, which meant they could not 635 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 4: confirm that CRCH followed FDA protocols, and two because the 636 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 4: egg donor was a silent carrier of a spinal condition. 637 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 4: In an email, the clinic noted that this second reason, 638 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 4: in particular, is their standard policy, one that it said 639 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 4: many IVF centers follow. 640 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 7: It's quite devastating to get that far down the line 641 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 7: and then to realize, oh, we're unable to use the embryo. 642 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 7: You feel like a fool. When you're in these circumstances. 643 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:59,240 Speaker 7: You think, why was I not asking these questions? Why 644 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 7: did I take their word for it? Why was I 645 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 7: not thinking ahead of what complications could arise. It's very 646 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 7: difficult to resist those thoughts and feelings when things goes 647 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 7: so horribly wrong. 648 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 4: Peter and his wife decided to sue, arguing that CRH 649 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 4: had broken its contract. Online, the clinic had advertised that 650 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 4: it followed guidelines from the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, 651 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 4: the group that sets best practices for fertility clinics. Nationwide. 652 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 4: Those guidelines specifically call for genetic screening of egg donors 653 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,280 Speaker 4: for conditions like cystic fibrosis, spinal muscular atrophy, and thalacemia, 654 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 4: but the donor they used turned out to be a 655 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 4: silent carrier for two of those very disorders. In an 656 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 4: email to Peter's wife, a staff member at CRH admitted 657 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 4: that they do not routinely run genetic tests on egg donors, said, 658 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 4: relying on family histories for known genetic conditions. 659 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 7: That seemed pretty clear cut, Okay, breach of contract. They 660 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 7: claimed to be members of these different associations. They did 661 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 7: not follow these things. They made certain promises to us 662 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 7: when we agreed to work with them and signed contracts 663 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 7: for it. So we're going to file a lawsuit then 664 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 7: to have everything that we put in compensated. 665 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 4: But it wasn't so clear cut. The clinic argued the 666 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 4: case could only be brought under Tennessee's healthcare liability law, 667 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 4: meaning that if the clinic won, the financial consequences for 668 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 4: the Richies would be severe. 669 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 7: They were responding in such a way that if we 670 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 7: decided to take things to trial and they triumphed, so 671 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 7: we were not awarded damages and so on Tennessee law 672 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 7: allows them to then compel us to pay their legal 673 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 7: fees and expenses. 674 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 4: Ultimately, that was not a risk they were willing to take. 675 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 4: They needed to save their money to pursue fertility treatments. 676 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,399 Speaker 7: We had to accept that the satisfaction of getting our 677 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 7: money back from what we had put in and them 678 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 7: admitting the wrong they had done, that it was not 679 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 7: going to happen. So we made the tough call to 680 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 7: voluntarily dismiss the case with prejudice. 681 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 4: A month or two later, their lawyer reached out again 682 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 4: with some surprising news. 683 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 7: Johnny calls me up and says, you are not going 684 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 7: to believe this. Crh's offices were just rated. Their finances 685 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 7: have been frozen. They are in absolute turmoil, and that 686 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 7: was when we saw then the floodgates open. 687 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,959 Speaker 4: Looking back, Peter said he noticed a lot of red 688 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 4: flags at CRCH. He described forgotten appointments, a lack of organization, 689 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 4: and what seemed to him like a casual attitude towards 690 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 4: the rules. 691 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 7: There was a slowly creeping suspicion of dysfunction in the space, 692 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 7: and anyone is free to ask, well, why did you 693 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 7: keep going with them? And the simple answer is, you 694 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 7: get deeper and deeper into this process, it becomes harder 695 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 7: and harder to walk away, and you're not really in 696 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 7: the position to then stop and go somewhere else. They're 697 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 7: not giving you a refund if things do not work out. 698 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 4: Peter and his wife are still feeling the fallout of 699 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 4: their time at CRCH. It's a struggle that since the 700 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 4: clinic's closure, they now share with other former patients. 701 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,879 Speaker 7: It's been the wildest of ex experiences of feeling isolated 702 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 7: and used and disregarded, and then learning that we're not 703 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 7: the only ones, that others have also experienced this, and 704 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 7: they have their own horror stories. You're not going into 705 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 7: fertility treatment from any position of strength, and it's a 706 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 7: uniquely vulnerable kind of healthcare, meaning fertility and creating new life. 707 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 4: When I last spoke with Peter, more than three years 708 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 4: after he and his wife first walked in the door 709 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 4: of the Center for Reproductive Health, their fertility journey remained ongoing. 710 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 7: We're still not parents, by the way. 711 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 4: Next time, on the final episode of What Happened in Nashville, 712 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 4: the patients grapple with unanswerable question questions and the long 713 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 4: term consequences of crh's collapse. I immediately just started questioning everything. 714 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 4: I honestly thought, like, would my outcome have been different 715 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 4: had I gone somewhere else. 716 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 2: I was so focused at a certain point on the 717 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 2: betrayal and the mistrust, and obviously that's never going to 718 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 2: go away, that's always going to be there. 719 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 4: And the shortcomings of one clinic serve as a cautionary 720 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 4: tale for the industry at large. 721 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 8: It has shaken my trust in healthcare and medical professionals. 722 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 5: I don't trust that the industry is not out for 723 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 5: the profit. 724 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 4: They see desperation and they see dollar signs. 725 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 2: Patients are left in the dark to steal themselves against 726 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 2: the consequences of medicine when it goes awry. 727 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,839 Speaker 6: The question is how much regulation of those clinics do 728 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 6: we want? 729 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 4: What Happened in Nashville is a production of School of 730 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,760 Speaker 4: Humans and iHeart Podcasts, written, reported, and hosted by me 731 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 4: Melissa Jelson. Our producer is Etily's Perez. Our senior producer 732 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 4: is Amelia Brock, with additional production by Emily Seiner and 733 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 4: Carl Catle. Theme song by Jesse nice Swanger, Sound design, 734 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 4: scoring and mixing by Jeremy Thal and Jesse Ny Swanger. 735 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 4: Fact checking by Savannah Hugley and Austin Thompson. Our production 736 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,319 Speaker 4: manager is Daisy Church. Voice acting by Tony Guerrero and 737 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 4: Taylor Church. Executive producers are Jason English, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, 738 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 4: and Elsie Crowley. If you're enjoying the show, tell everyone 739 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,920 Speaker 4: you know and don't forget to leave a rating in 740 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 4: your favorite podcast app