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Speaker 1: presented by Fan Duel here at the volume Happy Friday, everybody.
Speaker 1: We are live on AMP. Don't forget if you're watching
Speaker 1: on YouTube or listening on the podcast feed, so that
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Speaker 1: get these shows. We are going to go through five
Speaker 1: big questions, primarily focusing on the Eastern Conference at least
Speaker 1: here at the beginning with our guy Carson. Gonna get
Speaker 1: into a bunch of good basketball stuff. You guys know
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Speaker 1: Hoops Tonight. On that note, let's talk some basketball with
Speaker 1: mister Carson. How's it going, man, It's good to see you.
Speaker 1: I am great, Jason, good to see you too, And
Speaker 1: this is the best time of the year, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Or we're getting there. You can smell the playoffs in
Speaker 1: the air, I feel, and as we get to this
Speaker 1: time of year, obviously in the East, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: where we're gonna be focused at the start. Here there
Speaker 1: are three clear front runners, and there have been for
Speaker 1: most of the year now Milwaukee, Boston, Philly. Who do
Speaker 1: you think is under the most pressure to win the
Speaker 1: conference win the title this year out of that group? Jason, Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, I think it's super interesting that you
Speaker 1: said that you could smell it in the air, because,
Speaker 1: like I'm straight up seeing some real playoff level intensity
Speaker 1: in a lot of these games. I think in general,
Speaker 1: the desperation is really starting to show through. We wake
Speaker 1: up this morning in the Western Conference with a four
Speaker 1: way tie for eighth. That's gonna get shaken out here
Speaker 1: over the course of the next week or so. The
Speaker 1: Lakers have a chance to get back to five hundreds.
Speaker 1: So everyone's just scratching and clawn and it just feels
Speaker 1: like playoff basketball. I'm excited about it. So, you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny with this particular question, I immediately started to
Speaker 1: look at the teams at the top, right, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at Boston, Milwaukee, and Philly. And the main reason why
Speaker 1: is like, there is no pressure if you don't have
Speaker 1: a real chance to win a title, that to me
Speaker 1: is silly. And even for the teams that are pretty
Speaker 1: close to the top, like Cleveland in particular, they are
Speaker 1: this is their first year with this core. They're not
Speaker 1: going to be upset as a massive underdog if they
Speaker 1: lose in the second round. You know, the same thing
Speaker 1: goes with New York. You know, Jalen Brunson, that experiment
Speaker 1: has been a resounding success and it's not going to
Speaker 1: be the end of the world if they don't win.
Speaker 1: I think the one lower level team that might have
Speaker 1: to take a deep look in the mirror if they
Speaker 1: suffer an early exit would be Miami, just because there's
Speaker 1: some severe talent deficiencies there. But among the top teams,
Speaker 1: you know, I was really looking at just their stability
Speaker 1: in the coming years, and Boston's payroll is completely locked up. Really,
Speaker 1: the one guy they've got to work on the summer's
Speaker 1: Grant Williams. If you look at Milwaukee, you know, Brook
Speaker 1: Lopez is going to be a free agent, but I
Speaker 1: think they're going to figure that out. Joe Ingles is
Speaker 1: going to be a free agent. My guess is he
Speaker 1: comes back. Those fits are just too natural, and I
Speaker 1: think both of those guys succeed better in Milwaukee than
Speaker 1: they would elsewhere, just because of the way their systems
Speaker 1: are put together. Everything to me comes back to Philly
Speaker 1: and like, look, they're pretty well put together from a
Speaker 1: roster standpoint going into next season. But there's this James
Speaker 1: Harden piece and he could theoretically be an unrestricted free
Speaker 1: agent this summer. There's been intel that he might want
Speaker 1: to go back to Houston, and from what I've heard,
Speaker 1: there's it's not just like you know, a superficial reasons,
Speaker 1: there might be some real reasons for him to want
Speaker 1: to go back there. That doesn't mean he's going to
Speaker 1: we don't know. But the reality is is like there
Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure on this particular team. I
Speaker 1: was talking with Sambassini on Tuesday, and we ranked Philly
Speaker 1: as the most talented roster out of the MVP candidates.
Speaker 1: They have a one of offensive skill. Their spot up
Speaker 1: shooting is the best in the league right now, which
Speaker 1: is a big deal next to guys like James Harden
Speaker 1: and Joel Embiid that this is undeniably the apex of
Speaker 1: Joel Embiad's career. He's playing better basketball than he's ever played.
Speaker 1: James Harden is having an excellent season, kind of like
Speaker 1: we thought he would. And so if for whatever reason
Speaker 1: they flame out quickly, specifically under a disappointing performance from
Speaker 1: someone like James Harden in particular, I think you could
Speaker 1: see this team go in a different direction this offseason.
Speaker 1: And so from that standpoint, there is legit pressure. I
Speaker 1: think a key thing to watch over the course of
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks is them getting the two seed.
Speaker 1: If they get the two seed. Not only will they
Speaker 1: likely have to avoid Miami in the first round, but
Speaker 1: also it puts them in a situation where they would
Speaker 1: have home court advantage in that second round series against Boston,
Speaker 1: which I think would be really important. What do you think, man, Well,
Speaker 1: I like that angle a lot because I think they're
Speaker 1: absolutely right if you're talking about the broader scope of
Speaker 1: where are these teams going without a doubt, there is
Speaker 1: the most uncertainty in Philly and therefore real pressure. And
Speaker 1: also if you look at it from a legacy perspective,
Speaker 1: I think that already Joel Embiad and James Harden in
Speaker 1: a vacuum are up there for the best players to
Speaker 1: never be the guy on a team to go to
Speaker 1: the finals. Obviously Harden went there with Okac, but that
Speaker 1: was not a team that was led by him, and
Speaker 1: embat is only in year seven. But this is a
Speaker 1: guy who's back to back MVP runner up and is
Speaker 1: now going to be writing that conversation again. Darryl Morey
Speaker 1: one of the best gms to never actually go out
Speaker 1: there and win a title. Doc Rivers obviously much maligned
Speaker 1: despite all of his career success because it's been fifteen
Speaker 1: years since that title, and he's had a lot of
Speaker 1: playoff letdowns and disappointments. So I agree with a lot
Speaker 1: of what you've said. I kind of feel like, though,
Speaker 1: in a vacuum for this year, it is Boston just
Speaker 1: because last year we looked at them, they were the
Speaker 1: best team in the league down the stretch of the
Speaker 1: regular season, they seem to be the more talented team
Speaker 1: going into the finals. They lost. They got better this year.
Speaker 1: They improved the roster, adding your Malcolm Brogden's of the World,
Speaker 1: Derek White got significantly better, Jason Tatum got better, and
Speaker 1: they have been from the very jump this season the favorite,
Speaker 1: and now they've started to let things slip a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I do feel that there is a lot of
Speaker 1: pressure there. We have now some of the dialogue from
Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown about hey, I want to be where I'm wanted,
Speaker 1: like who knows where things will go from here? Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan retired a wizard saying stuff like that. So although
Speaker 1: there is definitely more certainty there, it does still feel
Speaker 1: like this is a group that really wants to prove
Speaker 1: that they can win it all because last year was
Speaker 1: a great chance. This year it's gonna be tougher to
Speaker 1: do it, but they're better, and I just feel that
Speaker 1: the consistency with which they have been at the forefront
Speaker 1: of that conversation. Boston's a favorite. Boston's a favorite. There
Speaker 1: is definitely a ton of expectation to live up to
Speaker 1: there a ton of pressure. Tatum wasn't good in the
Speaker 1: finals last year. I feel like you could argue either
Speaker 1: of those two. But I lean in a vacuum this
Speaker 1: season Boston. That's super interesting and you're kind of swaying
Speaker 1: me a little bit. Carson Um the Philly. There's undoubtedly
Speaker 1: pressure on Philly. There's the James Harden element. I didn't
Speaker 1: even think about the Doc Rivers element. That's an important part.
Speaker 1: If they flame out, you have to think that they're
Speaker 1: going to move off with Doc Rivers. The thing that
Speaker 1: would be interesting with Boston is would you agree with
Speaker 1: me that I with my opinion that Boston, from top
Speaker 1: to bottom in terms of top end talent to different
Speaker 1: types of player, versatility to depth, that Boston has the
Speaker 1: most talent in the league. Would you agree with that? Yeah, unequivocally,
Speaker 1: but I agree, I think they're the most talented. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're there, at least among the most talented tier of
Speaker 1: teams in the league. So what would be really interesting
Speaker 1: is if they lost ugly, like in Round two against Philly,
Speaker 1: would you start to look at it as a situation
Speaker 1: with team construction in the lack of high level playmaking.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I mean real high level playmaking, not like, oh,
Speaker 1: we've got not aggregate playmaking. From what Tatum can do
Speaker 1: some nights, with what Marcus Smart can do some nights,
Speaker 1: and with what Derek White can do some knights, and
Speaker 1: with what Malcolm Brogden can do some nights, I mean
Speaker 1: top tier playmaking, because if we go back through NBA history,
Speaker 1: it's like twenty twenty two, I got Steph Curry, who
Speaker 1: his combination of on ball and off ball playmaking is
Speaker 1: I would argue top tier. I've always jokingly when I
Speaker 1: would say those top four playmakers, and I'd say Luca
Speaker 1: and Yokich and Lebron and Chris Paul, I'd always kind
Speaker 1: of throws Steph in as the honorary fifth because of
Speaker 1: his offball gravity, you know. And then I go back
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty one and Janis is a much better
Speaker 1: playmaker than Tatum Brown, and I think that was a
Speaker 1: sneaky kind of storyline of his development has been everyone
Speaker 1: looking at the shot. Really it was his passing ability
Speaker 1: that kind of turned things around for him. You know,
Speaker 1: I go back to twenty twenty and it's Lebron freaking James.
Speaker 1: You know, twenty nineteen is a little weird, but it's
Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry and he's a better playmaker than anybody on
Speaker 1: this Boston roster. Eighteen seventeen, I've got the Warriors. Sixteen,
Speaker 1: I've got Lebron. Fifteen, I've got the Warriors fourteen, I've
Speaker 1: got that Spurs machine, thirteen twelve, I've got Lebron. You'd
Speaker 1: have to go back all the way to twenty eleven
Speaker 1: to find a team. And even then, it's like Jason
Speaker 1: Kidd was the guy that was running that offense. And
Speaker 1: so I think there would be an interesting discussion to
Speaker 1: have if Boston flamed out early about whether or not
Speaker 1: they would need to look to flip either Jalen or
Speaker 1: Jason for a higher level playmaker, simply from the standpoint
Speaker 1: of the fact that that might be the only way
Speaker 1: they could reach that championship ceiling. This Boston team effectively
Speaker 1: is the point guard by committee type team and it's
Speaker 1: just a question. It's just a question of whether or
Speaker 1: not you can win like that. What do you think, Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's a very interesting question. And I was
Speaker 1: skeptical of the Tatum Brown pairing for that fundamental reason.
Speaker 1: Like if you go back to two years ago when
Speaker 1: they were a five hundred team, right, and then the
Speaker 1: start of last year where they were five hundred a
Speaker 1: quarter of the way through the season. My fundamental belief was,
Speaker 1: you have to be if you're going to be a
Speaker 1: great offense led by two wings, like in that Clippers
Speaker 1: model that we had seen work right, kawaipg both very
Speaker 1: good positional playmakers with like historically great shooting around them,
Speaker 1: And I was like, Jalen Brown is not that level
Speaker 1: of a playmaker. Tatum at that point, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's at that level as a playmaker.
Speaker 1: And even Kauai in PG we've talked about some of
Speaker 1: their offensive structural issues in the past. It can still
Speaker 1: get weird. I always definitely valued that great playmaking presence.
Speaker 1: Now it's tough to sit here and say, all right, well,
Speaker 1: they just got to the finals. They were on the verge,
Speaker 1: and this year they've been up there for the best
Speaker 1: offense in the league. And they do have several good playmakers, right,
Speaker 1: they just don't have that one leading force. And they
Speaker 1: do maintain such a defensive ende by keeping edge, by
Speaker 1: keeping that wing Tanma together and such a shot making edge.
Speaker 1: I think that what they're doing is they're trying to
Speaker 1: establish a new archetype. They're trying to show us that
Speaker 1: you can have a team that is led by two
Speaker 1: great wings who are good enough at the playmaking and
Speaker 1: you can sort of not subjugate that lead guard playmaking
Speaker 1: role but make it secondary and just get those solid
Speaker 1: supporting pieces there. So I do think that this team
Speaker 1: is good enough. But yeah, if they fail in catastrophic fashion,
Speaker 1: and if it's because man Tatum and Brown are making
Speaker 1: bad decisions and they're struggling with the difficult shot making,
Speaker 1: I could see that being a look in the mirror
Speaker 1: kind of moment. But I honestly do feel that this
Speaker 1: Boston team is good enough. They're not my favorite this year.
Speaker 1: I do think that Milwaukee is the best, and part
Speaker 1: of that is a faith in Jannie over Tatum thing,
Speaker 1: because I do think that Boston top to bottom has
Speaker 1: a better roster. But it's a very interesting. It's one
Speaker 1: that I've thought about for this team for years. I've
Speaker 1: I've one last follow up before we move on. Miami
Speaker 1: experience is a disappointing flame out. Boston experience is a
Speaker 1: disappointing flame out. And Brad Stevens calls up pat Riley
Speaker 1: and offers Jaylen Brown for Jimmy Butler, who says that
Speaker 1: I think Boston says now because of age. Fundamentally, I
Speaker 1: think the Jimmy's better, But I think that you'll take
Speaker 1: your eight years of prime Jalen if you can retain
Speaker 1: him over well not maybe not eight, but you know,
Speaker 1: six or whatever versus like, who knows how many of Jimmy.
Speaker 1: Two things are changing, all right, Medicine is insane Now,
Speaker 1: guys play until they're thirty eight Lebron, But I would
Speaker 1: I would think that Boston would say no to that.
Speaker 1: What do you think? I agree? But that would be
Speaker 1: an example of like a win now type of trade
Speaker 1: for a player that I think immediately makes them a
Speaker 1: significantly larger championship threat because Jimmy kind of addresses two
Speaker 1: specific needs the toughness piece and that shot creation piece
Speaker 1: from that like big playmaker. Again, that's just fantasy basketball
Speaker 1: that'll never happen, but it was just it was just
Speaker 1: kind of an example of what I was looking at.
Speaker 1: We can move on now. Yeah, no, that is an
Speaker 1: interesting thought, and trust me, I love Jimmy. And by
Speaker 1: the way, I think Miami will have a disappointing play out.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're not winning a playoff series in
Speaker 1: this East. But it's interesting that you mentioned them because
Speaker 1: again we have been so focused on that tier of
Speaker 1: the top three teams. Who outside of that group of Boston,
Speaker 1: Milwaukee and Philly do you think actually has the best
Speaker 1: chance to win the East? Jason, So I think you're
Speaker 1: going to disagree with me here based on what you
Speaker 1: just said. But I considered three different teams here, and
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of different There's a bunch of different
Speaker 1: elements that break down here, because a lot of it
Speaker 1: has to do with matchups, like a lot is going
Speaker 1: to come down to who finishes in that two three
Speaker 1: race between a Boston and Philly. But the three teams
Speaker 1: that I considered beneath that top tier in the East
Speaker 1: that actually have a chance. I looked at the Calves,
Speaker 1: the Knicks in the heat, and so what I tried
Speaker 1: to do to try to minimize any sort of subjectivity
Speaker 1: from it, or at least minimize some of the subjectivity.
Speaker 1: Is I broke it down into some categories that I
Speaker 1: find super important for championship runs. And I looked at
Speaker 1: half court shot creation, half court play, finishing, rim protection,
Speaker 1: perimeter defense, physical strength, versatility of play style, and superstars.
Speaker 1: And so when I looked at half court shot creation,
Speaker 1: I actually gave a slight nod to the Knicks. I
Speaker 1: have come around so much on Julius Randall and Jalen
Speaker 1: Brunson as a duo. I think they represent a super
Speaker 1: complimentary duo in the sense that Jalen Brunson is that
Speaker 1: like high pick and roll ISO guy, and then that
Speaker 1: has some of the higher level playmaking. And Julius Randall's
Speaker 1: like that big matchup attacking forward that like, when things
Speaker 1: break down, he could just bully his way to ten
Speaker 1: feet and take a little twelve to thirteen foot fade away. Right.
Speaker 1: Even though I would argue Jimmy's the best overall player,
Speaker 1: the two of those two guys together I think make
Speaker 1: better half course shot creation, half court play finishing. I
Speaker 1: actually give it to the Heat. There's just a way
Speaker 1: better perimeter shooting team than the Knicks and the Calves.
Speaker 1: In rim protection, I went with the Calves. In perimeter defense,
Speaker 1: I went with the Knicks. I've been super impressed with
Speaker 1: the Knicks guards as of late with physical strength, though
Speaker 1: I went to the Heat. I think they're just a
Speaker 1: little bit more stout in that front line, and they're
Speaker 1: some of their guards like guys like Max Strus and
Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry, are super broad, low center of gravity, guys
Speaker 1: that can hold up in physical confrontations, versatility of play
Speaker 1: style with Miami. They can run drop coverage, they can
Speaker 1: run switching schemes. They're extremely smart tactically on both ends
Speaker 1: of the floor. So I put them number one there
Speaker 1: and then for superstars. Undoubtedly among that group, I would
Speaker 1: trust Jimmy Butler more than any of those other players
Speaker 1: on the other teams, and so I tallied them up.
Speaker 1: If you finish first on that list, I gave you
Speaker 1: three points. If you finished second on that list, I
Speaker 1: gave you two points, And if you finish third, I
Speaker 1: gave you one point. In the final tally, I had
Speaker 1: seventeen for the Heat, fourteen for the Knicks, and eleven
Speaker 1: for the Cavs. So like, I actually think out of
Speaker 1: that group, based on the things that I value the
Speaker 1: most about playoff basketball, that I still think the Heat
Speaker 1: are the biggest threat to anybody, But a lot of
Speaker 1: it comes down to matchups. Like I think i'd give
Speaker 1: them a puncher's chance if Boston slipped down to three,
Speaker 1: I'd give him a puncher's chance to beat Boston, just
Speaker 1: because there's a mental advantage there. They've beat him twice
Speaker 1: again this year. They almost beat him in the playoffs
Speaker 1: last year. But if they end up facing off with Philly,
Speaker 1: I don't like that matchup as much, just because especially
Speaker 1: with the way that they're going to have to crowd
Speaker 1: embid with their physical disadvantages, and how good Philly is
Speaker 1: shooting off the ball. Well, I think I like how
Speaker 1: you went about this. I mean it's very interesting to
Speaker 1: have the precise calculation there. The one factor though, that
Speaker 1: I think of missing from that is that Miami is
Speaker 1: gonna have to play Boston or Philly probably in the
Speaker 1: first round, and Cleveland and New York can kind of
Speaker 1: go at each other. And bottom line, I'm not confident
Speaker 1: in any of these teams beating any of the three
Speaker 1: big dogs. Like I do think that there's a clear
Speaker 1: drop off if I were to pick one, though, I
Speaker 1: think it might be New York, and I'm tempted to
Speaker 1: say Cleveland. I know that you're not a big Cleveland
Speaker 1: guy in the scope of contention. What I do like
Speaker 1: about them is I think they have the combination potentially
Speaker 1: of dominant interior defense and therefore dominant defense overall. Like
Speaker 1: as much as they may struggle at the point of attack,
Speaker 1: they've been the best defense in the league or top
Speaker 1: two for basically the majority of this season because they
Speaker 1: have an interior tandem like nobody else in the league.
Speaker 1: And Mobli is an absolute monster with his versatility too
Speaker 1: and dynamic perimeter shop making. Because who do you trust
Speaker 1: more if you're talking about below that true superstar tier
Speaker 1: to carry you through a playoff series or multiple playoffs series.
Speaker 1: Then Donovan Mitchell. He's one of the most prolific playoff
Speaker 1: scorers of all time. And there's just such a dynamism
Speaker 1: of off the dribble, shot making, attacking the rim. And
Speaker 1: then to have Darius Garland is your second guy, that
Speaker 1: to me is like a really impressive, Hey, if we
Speaker 1: can It's like they're more talented and the East was
Speaker 1: horrible at this time. But it's sort of like if
Speaker 1: you think about like an AI formula right dominant interior
Speaker 1: defense one guy, except they even have a second star
Speaker 1: level guy in Darius Garland. The problem is they suck
Speaker 1: on the wings and their depth sucks, and I think
Speaker 1: that that just knocks them down a bit to me
Speaker 1: to where I agree with you. I really really like
Speaker 1: the star Tanem from New York right now, and who knows, right,
Speaker 1: Julius Randall has basically been defined by what level is
Speaker 1: he going to be as a jump shooter. He was
Speaker 1: all MBA because he was making his mid range pull ups,
Speaker 1: he was shooting well from deep. Then everybody decided he
Speaker 1: sucked because he was missing those shots. And guess what,
Speaker 1: he kinda did suck last year. Then at the start
Speaker 1: of this year he was missing those shots, and then
Speaker 1: for the last six weeks or whatever, he's been blazing.
Speaker 1: And so I don't know how much I can trust that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, if he's dialed in, I love Jalen Brunson
Speaker 1: point blank. I trust him at all times. I think
Speaker 1: that the wing combinations that they get from your Josh Hearts,
Speaker 1: your Quentin Grimes, that is better than what you're seeing
Speaker 1: from Cleveland certainly, and they're a good defensive team overall.
Speaker 1: IQ I just think they have more basketball players who
Speaker 1: I trust, and because they have that legit star Tanem too,
Speaker 1: because I do see a relatively high two way ceiling.
Speaker 1: It's like if Brunson and Randall are both putting up
Speaker 1: their twenty eight to night, which you as kind of crazy,
Speaker 1: but they did it for a month right like we
Speaker 1: just saw it pretty much, they would be probably the
Speaker 1: scariest to me because Cleveland's depth and wing play is
Speaker 1: just too lacking. Dude, Josh Hart has been such an
Speaker 1: interesting swing piece. He's so good at so many little
Speaker 1: basketball things that he just immediately makes seems better really
Speaker 1: quickly before you move on. Miami is seven and three
Speaker 1: in their last ten fourth and offense Jimmy Butler twenty seven,
Speaker 1: seven and six on fifty nine forty seven eighty six
Speaker 1: splits with two point one stocks. Kyle Lowry has been back,
Speaker 1: and he just brings that little bit of playmaking out
Speaker 1: of high pick and roll to get the get the
Speaker 1: shooters the shots they need in the spots. So they
Speaker 1: like that was a big part of how they beat
Speaker 1: New York was his late game playmaking the other night.
Speaker 1: And I do worry a little bit about their closing
Speaker 1: lineup Kyle Lowry and Tyler Harrow, Jimmy and Bam that
Speaker 1: fifth guy. They've been doing a lot of Caleb Martin,
Speaker 1: but I wonder in the playoffs and the like, if
Speaker 1: that's gonna be big enough. I think they might have
Speaker 1: to go someone like Strew's who's just a little bit
Speaker 1: more stout, and so I worry about them in some
Speaker 1: specific matchups. But they're They're definitely coming on at the
Speaker 1: right time, and I do think there's a certain amount
Speaker 1: of fear there. I do think that there's certainly some
Speaker 1: validity to that, right, Like Jimmy is the guy who
Speaker 1: you have to trust the most. I love Donovan Mitchell,
Speaker 1: but Jimmy's all around impact, Like we've seen it, right,
Speaker 1: He's gotten a team to the finals where he was incredible,
Speaker 1: and he's gotten a team to the brink of the
Speaker 1: finals again last year. And the shooting ceiling is there.
Speaker 1: They're good defensively. I have just been so dissuaded by
Speaker 1: the persistent offensive lulls that we've seen. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: still twenty fifth and offensive raining or something like, I
Speaker 1: know that if Jimmy goes supernova, he can get them there.
Speaker 1: But just with Lowry's regression, bands had a very good season,
Speaker 1: but He's still is not an ideal like guy to
Speaker 1: lean on offensively heroes. His inconsistencies and their depth is fine,
Speaker 1: but it's not something that I love, and so because
Speaker 1: of that, I'm I'm just a little bit out on Miami.
Speaker 1: I also just don't really enjoy watching them, and maybe
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a bias there, but like, ye, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean every other year, Oh yeah, he certainly does not.
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Speaker 1: partner of the NBA. Let's pivot out west here and
Speaker 1: talk about a team that has consistently been towards the
Speaker 1: top of the standings. But I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of people you and I both included, have had some
Speaker 1: serious questions about in terms of legitimate contention, and that
Speaker 1: is the Memphis Grizzlies. Jason, even when Jaw returns, what's
Speaker 1: their realistic title chance? I don't necessarily think that there
Speaker 1: is much of a chance there. I look at it
Speaker 1: pretty simply. Teams are going to pack the pain on
Speaker 1: them like crazy. Without Brandon Clark, I think you're going
Speaker 1: to see a lot of Xavier Tilman and Steven Adams
Speaker 1: if you can get healthy in time in the postseason.
Speaker 1: These are the only teams in the league were set
Speaker 1: converting spot up opportunities in Memphis, Detroit, Orlando, Houston, Charlotte,
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. That's it. They are one of the worst
Speaker 1: spacing teams in the league. And so from that standpoint,
Speaker 1: I just keep thinking so much is going to come
Speaker 1: down to John Morant and his ability to knock down
Speaker 1: for him jump shots, and he just this season, especially
Speaker 1: off the dribble, has not been very accurate. He's only
Speaker 1: shooting about thirty percent on pull up threes this year.
Speaker 1: And so I don't and I've talked to this to death.
Speaker 1: I swear I've made this same rant like three times
Speaker 1: in the last week. So I don't want to go
Speaker 1: too much further into it, but I just don't think
Speaker 1: they have the requisite amount of offensive skill. But I
Speaker 1: did want to take this as an opportunity to present
Speaker 1: you with the question, Carson, one that I briefly floated
Speaker 1: with you over text message the other day, but I
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of dive into it a little bit
Speaker 1: deeper on the show. So I think that unquestionably right now,
Speaker 1: Jaw is a better player than Jaren Jackson. But I
Speaker 1: also think that Jaren Jackson is unquestionably the most important
Speaker 1: player to Memphis, particularly as it pertains to their floor.
Speaker 1: And I think you see that neon off numbers. They're
Speaker 1: only about five points better when Jaw is on versus off,
Speaker 1: but they are eleven points better per one hundred possessions
Speaker 1: when Jaren Jackson is on versus when he's off. Basically
Speaker 1: the differences is they're in extremely average team when Jaron
Speaker 1: Jackson's off the floor, and they are an elite double
Speaker 1: digit net rating team when Jaron Jackson is on the floor.
Speaker 1: And you know, it kind of reminds me a little
Speaker 1: bit of the Lebron Anthony Davis dynamic, where there's no
Speaker 1: doubt Lebron's the better player, and especially in the late
Speaker 1: rounds of the playoffs in twenty twenty, you saw that.
Speaker 1: But take Anthony Davis off that team and they're so
Speaker 1: devoid of real front court versatility that the bottom falls
Speaker 1: out usually now to Lebron's credit because he's so damn good.
Speaker 1: He's floated that team around five hundred without a d
Speaker 1: all season. But that's Lebron James, the second greatest player
Speaker 1: of all time. Like, but that dynamic is what the
Speaker 1: John Moray at Jaron Jackson thing reminds me of. Jah's
Speaker 1: clearly the best player, but Jaron Jackson's that guy that
Speaker 1: is so important foundationally to what they do defensively that
Speaker 1: he's the hardest for them to replace. Now, I think
Speaker 1: right now he's already one of the best defensive players
Speaker 1: in the league, and he's showing a lot of flashes
Speaker 1: offensively as a rim pressuring like rip through a physically
Speaker 1: aggressive straight line drive forward, and he's flashing some of
Speaker 1: that perimeter shooting stuff. I think that if he can
Speaker 1: make some moderate improvements as a ball handler and was
Speaker 1: seeing the floor and can get to the point where
Speaker 1: he consistently can average about twenty five points per game
Speaker 1: efficiently with what he can do defensively, I think he's
Speaker 1: capable of being an even better player than what John
Speaker 1: morantis And that's not bad for Memphis. That's great for
Speaker 1: Memphis because if you can have two of those guys
Speaker 1: that's excellent. Am I too high on Jared Jackson? I
Speaker 1: think if you're talking about him being up in that
Speaker 1: twenty five a game range, that's a little higher than
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable with. And I will say he is a
Speaker 1: completely different player this year and then he has been previously.
Speaker 1: Like last year, there were stretches where I would have
Speaker 1: said Jaren Jackson Junior was an offensive negative because he
Speaker 1: shot the ball very poorly. He was a playmaking zero.
Speaker 1: But most importantly, and this was my biggest issue with him,
Speaker 1: was he was soft. Right. He was this six ten, big,
Speaker 1: quite athletic guy who could handle the ball, and he
Speaker 1: was addicted to his floaters and he wasn't good at them. Now,
Speaker 1: I think you've seen him this year be consistently more aggressive,
Speaker 1: more physical. He's getting all the way downhill more and
Speaker 1: he's making those floaters, those push shots like in the
Speaker 1: paint outside the restricted area issues better than fifty percent.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty elite mark, and he's hitting his threes.
Speaker 1: So my questions with his ceiling are more related to
Speaker 1: how much can you entrust him with offensive responsibility when
Speaker 1: to me, he really does feel like, hey, Triple J,
Speaker 1: go attack this mismatch, right, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: mismatches for him, but his playmaking is just not there.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's still under an assisting A is a
Speaker 1: guy who's putting up his eighteen a night, and I
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot of the times guys grow into that
Speaker 1: skill set, right the more they handle the ball. I
Speaker 1: just don't know how much Triple J is gonna be
Speaker 1: entrusted with that because he's not a wing, right, He's
Speaker 1: a four who can get downhill because he handles the
Speaker 1: ball pretty well, and he's big and strong and athletic
Speaker 1: and he has that touch finishing. So that's one of
Speaker 1: my concerns. And then the other one is just it
Speaker 1: really is get to the rim or knock down to
Speaker 1: three with him. I mean, he doesn't have the floater game, right,
Speaker 1: but there's no certainly no pull up jump shooting from
Speaker 1: that mid range element, which I do just think if
Speaker 1: you're talking about twenty five point per game scoring, elite
Speaker 1: scoring like that, it does help to have. I could
Speaker 1: see him getting into twenty twenty two, and at that
Speaker 1: point there is an argument to be made because what
Speaker 1: I would say is Triple J is at that point
Speaker 1: like an ideal number two right, because he's elite defensively,
Speaker 1: and he's gonna be efficient and pretty darn productive offensively,
Speaker 1: and he's not gonna step on the toes really of
Speaker 1: your primary guy, because he's gonna get his stuff quickly.
Speaker 1: But there is still a value that a job Morant
Speaker 1: can bring even with his at times efficiency issues and
Speaker 1: his defensive issues. Playoff career for Jaw, he's averaged twenty
Speaker 1: eight points nine assist per game, solid efficiency, but you
Speaker 1: just feel it in certain series, in certain games, it's like, man,
Speaker 1: he's the thing keeping them alive offensively because he just
Speaker 1: keeps coming at you. There's a physical imposition, there's a
Speaker 1: playmaking that feeds off of his rim pressuring. There's a
Speaker 1: relentlessness getting to the line, which is always good, valuable,
Speaker 1: efficient offense to have, And that is like a value
Speaker 1: that a Triple J just could never reach. To me.
Speaker 1: You need your Jaw Morant, I guess is what I'm
Speaker 1: saying here. You need your perimeter driving force, and their
Speaker 1: values are just very different. Triple J could be the
Speaker 1: ideal complimentary guy. Jaw could be a not top tier
Speaker 1: top guy, but a guy who can in a specific run,
Speaker 1: take you pretty far. I think so, I don't think
Speaker 1: you're crazy. You're saying that Triple J could be the
Speaker 1: better guy in a couple of years, but I'm not
Speaker 1: quite as high on him as you are. Well, and again,
Speaker 1: it's not one thing or the other, like ideally you
Speaker 1: have both, and I don't think I think that. Again,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm high on Jared Jackson. And to
Speaker 1: me again, like even if Jared Jackson were to supersede
Speaker 1: John Moray in total basketball value, which I actually think
Speaker 1: it's a little closer now than people are willing to admit,
Speaker 1: but even if you were to supersede him in overall
Speaker 1: basketball value, John Moraine will always represent the ceiling. The
Speaker 1: same thing goes with Lebron James. Like the truth of
Speaker 1: the matter is like they can't do anything without Anthony Davis.
Speaker 1: He's so important to them as that foundational piece. But
Speaker 1: they are not hoisting the trophy in twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: unless Lebron James goes on another vintage playoff perimeter initiation run.
Speaker 1: Like that's just the reality this year and in the future.
Speaker 1: Nothing works unless John Morant can reach that same level
Speaker 1: offensively as a perimeter initiator. But the reality is like
Speaker 1: I've I've talked a lot with Memphis this year. Don't
Speaker 1: think they can do it this year, flat out, don't
Speaker 1: think it's even on the table. But I am a
Speaker 1: huge believer in this core moving forward. The dynamic of that,
Speaker 1: like you called it, the Alan Iverson dynamic, but that
Speaker 1: John Morant with the outstanding interior defense, with that Dylan Brooks,
Speaker 1: the guy you could throw out the other team's best player.
Speaker 1: If you bring in the requisite amount of offensive skill
Speaker 1: to supplement those guys in the rotation, I think that
Speaker 1: they can absolutely win an NBA championship. This is not
Speaker 1: like I actually think, excuse me, I actually think Cleveland
Speaker 1: has some significant limitations. They don't have They don't have
Speaker 1: that same level of like physical girth, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of like just their ability to hold up in
Speaker 1: the super physicality environments. I'm actually a little higher on
Speaker 1: Memphis long even though I think Cleveland's better now and
Speaker 1: so again, it's more just to me, it's just a
Speaker 1: point of optimism. I am super high on Jaren Jackson,
Speaker 1: and I think it puts him in a good spot
Speaker 1: moving forward. I love how you put it. That was
Speaker 1: exactly what I was trying to say Triple J can
Speaker 1: be the more valuable, better overall player. Jaw will always
Speaker 1: represent the ceiling. They will always need that offensive engine
Speaker 1: to even get in the door. But yeah, Triple J
Speaker 1: could do some special stuff. I mean, it's like you said,
Speaker 1: he's already up there for the best defensive player in
Speaker 1: the league. And I agree with you about memphisis issues.
Speaker 1: Not a good enough half court offensive team, not skilled
Speaker 1: enough offensively. I love Desmond Baine, He's a step in
Speaker 1: the right direction. It's still not quite enough with their
Speaker 1: spot up issues. And Joe also hasn't been good enough
Speaker 1: this year when he's been out there at just point blank,
Speaker 1: his pull up jump shooting hasn't been good enough. He
Speaker 1: hasn't been efficient enough, and they need him to be great.
Speaker 1: So let's talk now about another story that has sort
Speaker 1: of gripped the NBA. And it's not the first time
Speaker 1: that it's happened, but Mario Chalmers came out and said
Speaker 1: on a podcast as former NBA role players love to
Speaker 1: do talking about NBA greats, and said that people don't
Speaker 1: fear Lebron And we've always heard this right, people don't
Speaker 1: fear Lebron. No Chill Gill came out and said, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not scared of a guy who's going to give
Speaker 1: you twenty nine, nine and nine. I probably would be.
Speaker 1: But why is there this narrative, Jason that players don't
Speaker 1: fear Lebron? What's your take on it? Carson? Can you
Speaker 1: give me a favor? While while I'm ranting in an
Speaker 1: infuriating fashion, can you look up for me? How many
Speaker 1: times Lebron James scored forty plus in the twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: playoffs If I remember, he was eight. So okay, I'm
Speaker 1: so glad we're finally getting around to this. This This has
Speaker 1: been irritating me for about a week, but we just
Speaker 1: haven't had an opportunity just because of how crazy the
Speaker 1: basketball has been all the time. So here's where I'm at.
Speaker 1: I think people have and maybe it's just time. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, but for some reason, I
Speaker 1: think people are forgetting just how dominant Lebron James's playoff
Speaker 1: resume is. It's not the same as MJ's, but it's
Speaker 1: pretty damn dominant, certainly within this era. He has four championships.
Speaker 1: The only players that are comparable are the Warrior's core,
Speaker 1: and they did it when they added Kevin Durant to
Speaker 1: the team and they haven't been nearly as successful without him.
Speaker 1: He has four finals MVPs. The closest is Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: or Kawhi Leonard with two. He has ten conference titles.
Speaker 1: The closest is the Warrior's Core with six. Here is
Speaker 1: a list of players that Lebron James has beaten four
Speaker 1: times out of seven in a playoff series. Paul Pierce
Speaker 1: three times, Kevin Garnett three times, MVP, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony,
Speaker 1: Paul George four times, Kevin Durant, James Harden twice, Russell
Speaker 1: Westbrook twice, Tim Duncan, Steph Curry, Jason Tatum, Damian Lillard,
Speaker 1: Nicola Yokich, Jimmy Butler. He may not be the same
Speaker 1: level of dominance that MJ had in the nineties, and
Speaker 1: that certainly is a differentiating factor for me right now
Speaker 1: between those two guys. Lebron James within this era has
Speaker 1: unquestionably been a dominant player. There is not a player
Speaker 1: that has impacted winning for as long or as frequently
Speaker 1: as Lebron James has, and it's not close. Even Steph Curry,
Speaker 1: who's the closest to him. There is a chasm between
Speaker 1: Lebron James and Steph Curry. You could take half of
Speaker 1: Lebron james career resume, and it matches what Steph has
Speaker 1: accomplished in his career. I can absolutely guarantee you, beyond
Speaker 1: a shadow of a doubt that when a team prepares
Speaker 1: to face Lebron James in a playoff series over the
Speaker 1: last fifteen years or whatever, that there has been more
Speaker 1: than the appropriate amount of fear and fear and respect
Speaker 1: for what he's capable of in that series. If you
Speaker 1: go into a series with the Lebron James team feeling
Speaker 1: like you have a chance to win, it's because you
Speaker 1: like some matchup somewhere else on the roster where you've
Speaker 1: got a good chance, not because you expect to outplay
Speaker 1: Lebron James. That has never ever been the case, and
Speaker 1: that's the same type of appropriate fear that existed for mj. Look.
Speaker 1: I still have Michael Jordan as my greatest of all time,
Speaker 1: and I think Lebron James needs to do more to
Speaker 1: surpass him. But the reality is is it's getting closer
Speaker 1: and closer, and right now it is very close, and
Speaker 1: the closer it gets the more people have to go
Speaker 1: away from real basketball arguments and start relying on these
Speaker 1: completely meaningless platitudes, like random abstract concepts like fear. And
Speaker 1: this fear thing is just the latest example of that.
Speaker 1: I think I agree with a lot of what you said.
Speaker 1: I do think there's a dynamic of this that is,
Speaker 1: it's about archetypes people when they talk about fear, they
Speaker 1: I think, favor a couple things, part of which is
Speaker 1: like the just bloodthirstiness, the deranged and obvious competitiveness that
Speaker 1: you get from a Michael Jordan or Calby Bryant. Right.
Speaker 1: I think people romanticize that it doesn't have to do
Speaker 1: with how great you are as a basketball player, when
Speaker 1: Lebron James is still absurdly competitive and is never gonna
Speaker 1: shy away from the moment. But there is just that
Speaker 1: ROTI the romanticization of this guy is gonna come right
Speaker 1: at me, He's gonna come at my throat, He's gonna isolate, right.
Speaker 1: And I also think that there's a skill bias with
Speaker 1: all of this, where people talk about being so scared
Speaker 1: of a Jordan, of a Kobe because of difficult shot making,
Speaker 1: because of hey, I'm gonna back I'm gonna take you
Speaker 1: to the post. I'm gonna pivot six times, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pull out a crazy spin, I'm gonna nail this shot
Speaker 1: right in your face. And it's relentless, right, And I
Speaker 1: just think that people revere that. But oftentimes basketball is
Speaker 1: about making the right play. It's about creating your high
Speaker 1: probability looks, getting downhill for a layup, creating an open
Speaker 1: three for a teammate. And who has ever done that
Speaker 1: better in the scoring playmaker in combination than Lebron. Nobody
Speaker 1: in my opinion. So it's not about actual basketball. You're right,
Speaker 1: because even if it is about well, he's not gonna
Speaker 1: come right at you and you know, drop forty on you,
Speaker 1: as you said it was eight times in the twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen playoffs. Well done. He is undeniably one of the
Speaker 1: greatest scores we've ever seen. And by the way, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd be pretty scared of a two hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty pound freight train coming at me and over
Speaker 1: over again. You think Steph in the in the twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen finals Game one was like, ah, oh, Lebron, he's
Speaker 1: gonna dry me again. Yeah, we'll see how this goes
Speaker 1: like it's an absurd, absurd thing, and it's the same
Speaker 1: thing where like for fifteen years it's been a topic
Speaker 1: of his Lebron wrong for passing the ball to the
Speaker 1: open guy on the last possession. People have an idea
Speaker 1: of what makes a great basketball player in their mind,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of it is because Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan was the dream. He was perfection, and so it
Speaker 1: was like, whoever can get closest to Mike is the dream. Therefore,
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily true, like Lebron is effectively equally great,
Speaker 1: just in a different way. You know. It's interesting because
Speaker 1: even if we try to define this abstract concept of fear,
Speaker 1: like if you asked me to try to explain the
Speaker 1: impact that fear could have on a basketball game, the
Speaker 1: best thing that I could do to describe it is
Speaker 1: having your opponent play below their capability simply because they
Speaker 1: lack confidence in their ability to beat you. And I
Speaker 1: have literally seen that happen dozens of times in Lebron
Speaker 1: James's career, Like I go back and I look at
Speaker 1: I literally watched Lebron James in twenty twenty after Kawhi Leonard,
Speaker 1: one of the very archetypes of players that you described
Speaker 1: as the type of person that we naturally associate with
Speaker 1: this type of fear fail to put the Denver Nuggets away.
Speaker 1: I watched Lebron James do it with what Kauhi is
Speaker 1: best at, pull up jump shooting earlier in that playoff run.
Speaker 1: I watched him deliberately target Russell Westbrook in athleticism plays.
Speaker 1: Lebron has hardly hunted chase down blocks in the last
Speaker 1: half decade. He had like four of them against Russell
Speaker 1: Westbrook just to prove a point that like, hey, you're
Speaker 1: the most freaky athlete of your generation. I'm older than you,
Speaker 1: and I'm still more athletic than you. You know. I
Speaker 1: go back to I go back to twenty eighteen, and
Speaker 1: I watched a Toronto Toronto Raptors team that had won
Speaker 1: what fifty nine games, that was favored to win the series,
Speaker 1: and I watched Lebron suck the life out of them
Speaker 1: in two games in Toronto on their way to the sweep.
Speaker 1: They vastly underperformed their potential because they were they simply
Speaker 1: did not believe they could beat him, even though they
Speaker 1: had a better team. That is that same type of
Speaker 1: fear I go back to twenty fifteen. In twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: when Lebron beat the Warriors and damn near did it
Speaker 1: without Kyrie and Kevin Love, and it was mostly because
Speaker 1: both Clay Thompson and Steph Curry played well below their
Speaker 1: capability in large part because they were not confident in
Speaker 1: that setting in the same way that Lebron James was.
Speaker 1: And I can go further and further back over time,
Speaker 1: but Lebron James has absolutely had that mental impact on
Speaker 1: his opponents. It's different, like you said, it's not the oh,
Speaker 1: He's just gonna take these ridiculously tough shots and all
Speaker 1: we can do is just pray that he misses, like
Speaker 1: it is with some of these great scores of all time.
Speaker 1: But what it is is it's a lack of confidence
Speaker 1: in the ability to beat him in basketball games. That's
Speaker 1: the same type of abstract concept, even if you don't
Speaker 1: associate it with the same visceral reaction of fear that
Speaker 1: you might have with the high with the high volume score.
Speaker 1: And again, like there is Carson, an interesting basketball debate
Speaker 1: to have about Lebron James versus Michael Jordan. They're two
Speaker 1: completely different archetypes. Their team constructs throughout their career are
Speaker 1: so different. Like I think if Lebron James had Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis from the time that he entered the league, he'd
Speaker 1: be his Scottie Pippen and they played together for twelve years.
Speaker 1: But you know what, that's not how it worked. He
Speaker 1: didn't find a legit costar until Dwayne Wade, who immediately
Speaker 1: broke down. And then he found Kyrie and then he
Speaker 1: broke down mentally and physically, and then he found Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis and he's breaking down physically, Like like, it's been
Speaker 1: a completely different career arc. There is an interesting conversation
Speaker 1: to have to dive into all those elements, but instead
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, but what about the fear scale? And
Speaker 1: it just makes everybody dumber and it's completely dishonest, and
Speaker 1: it's a big part of why I don't really enjoy
Speaker 1: discussing Lebron MJ unless I'm talking with someone like you, Carson.
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. I think that the NBA
Speaker 1: goat debate is on the verge of needing to be retired,
Speaker 1: Like it's just not fun. People don't talk about basketball,
Speaker 1: they talk about stuff like this. They talk about you know, MJ. Gambling,
Speaker 1: they talk about Lebron's tweets. It's like it's not upon
Speaker 1: basketball conversation anymore. But it is a very interesting one.
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Last thing we're gonna touch on today,
Speaker 1: Trey Young came out and said after the Timberwolves game,
Speaker 1: which they narrowly lost, quote ref should be held more
Speaker 1: accountable and apparently implying like money, suspensions, etc. Just like us,
Speaker 1: they shouldn't get we missed it passes. What do you
Speaker 1: think about that, Jason, Well, first of all, if there's
Speaker 1: one player in the league that I never want to
Speaker 1: hear spearheading or conversation about officiating, it's Trey Young. I Look,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. We haven't discussed a lot of Atlanta
Speaker 1: Hawks this year, in large part because they're terrible, but
Speaker 1: also because I hate, hate, hate watching that team. Even
Speaker 1: when I do like, I try to find little things
Speaker 1: that I like. Like I love de Jontay Murray's pull
Speaker 1: up jump shooting game. It just as a basketball player
Speaker 1: and fan. It's something that I think it's super interesting.
Speaker 1: I love how he changes his release to a higher
Speaker 1: release point to help him get it off in traffic.
Speaker 1: And I find DeAndre Hunter to be a fascinating player
Speaker 1: as you're you know, classic kind of Andrew Wiggins archetype,
Speaker 1: a ripped through, simple, offensive, rim pressuring option who can
Speaker 1: guard the other team's best player. There are things that
Speaker 1: I find that I can try to as a basketball
Speaker 1: fan watch Atlanta, but I don't watch them very much.
Speaker 1: I probably only watched them like twenty times all season
Speaker 1: because I find them. I have a visceral negative reaction
Speaker 1: to Atlanta because of Trey Young and his foul baiting,
Speaker 1: and I can't, I can't stand it. Here's the thing,
Speaker 1: there isn't There is a conversation to have about officiating,
Speaker 1: but it's not associated with fairness. So, for instance, after
Speaker 1: the Sun's game, you have Devin Booker and Monty Williams
Speaker 1: come out and complain about officiating. That was the dumbest
Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen. Because the Lakers are a team
Speaker 1: that consistently draws foul because they've got two players in particular,
Speaker 1: and Anthony Davis and Austin Reeves who are gifted at
Speaker 1: getting players out of position. There's a conversation to have
Speaker 1: about foul grifting, which we will in a second. But
Speaker 1: the reality is, is is there an excellent foul drawing team
Speaker 1: that does not take pull up jump shots almost ever.
Speaker 1: And then the Phoenix Suns, who took forty two pull
Speaker 1: up jump shots in that game compared to just eighteen
Speaker 1: for the Lakers, because that's all they do, which is
Speaker 1: a big part of why they are twenty eight in
Speaker 1: free throw attempts per game this season. And you're going
Speaker 1: to have that loser ass mentality to act as though
Speaker 1: officiating is the reason why you lost, when you lose
Speaker 1: the free throw battle every single game because of the
Speaker 1: type of thought the shots that you like to take.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times these players focus
Speaker 1: on officiating as a matter of fairness, and that to me,
Speaker 1: like I said, is a loser mentality and I'm just
Speaker 1: not interested in having that discussion. The rests call the
Speaker 1: game consistently bad for both teams in every game that
Speaker 1: I've ever seen this year, way too much of these
Speaker 1: non basketball plays resulting in free throws. But it is indiscriminate,
Speaker 1: it is around the entire league. The versation to have
Speaker 1: is there are two there are two things that I
Speaker 1: can't stand about officiating in the modern NBA. One is
Speaker 1: the way that it disrupts the television product simply put,
Speaker 1: it's not fun to watch the flow of the game
Speaker 1: get constantly disrupted as you see guys constantly making these
Speaker 1: unorthodox plays and stopping the flow of the game, the
Speaker 1: up and down nature of basketball, which is part of
Speaker 1: what makes it great. Like I don't know if you
Speaker 1: saw that Golden State Dallas game the other night. It
Speaker 1: was pretty back and forth, up and down there in
Speaker 1: that fourth quarter, and it was highly entertaining. That's basketball.
Speaker 1: And so problem number one is the refs are disrupting
Speaker 1: the flow of basketball games and it is bad for
Speaker 1: the television product. And then problem number two is as
Speaker 1: a matter of personality, and some of this is just
Speaker 1: the way that that position draws people that have an
Speaker 1: authority complex. But the reality is is these guys they
Speaker 1: do not understand their role within a basketball game. The
Speaker 1: NBA exists because of the show that the players can
Speaker 1: put on. You need the owners as a structural element
Speaker 1: to make it all work. They're the business guys. You
Speaker 1: need the media because they are what allow they are
Speaker 1: what market the players to the fans, that's important. And
Speaker 1: you need officials because they are what keep the game
Speaker 1: fair and organized. Correct. But all three of those owners
Speaker 1: of media and refs. They need to stay out of
Speaker 1: the center of focus. The players always have to be
Speaker 1: the focus because they drive all the revenue. The only
Speaker 1: reason any of this works or makes any moment or
Speaker 1: any money is because we enjoy watching Steph Curry play basketball.
Speaker 1: And the refs so don't understand that concept, and more
Speaker 1: often than not, they push themselves to the forefront because
Speaker 1: they view themselves on equal footing to the players, and
Speaker 1: that is complete crap and until and so they have
Speaker 1: to figure out how to fix the issues with the
Speaker 1: way that the rules are interpreted to keep the flow
Speaker 1: of back basketball games better. But they also have to
Speaker 1: find a way to filter out these dudes. And it's
Speaker 1: not all of them. I would venture to guess that
Speaker 1: at least half of them are well meaning and understand
Speaker 1: their role. But there are way too many celebrity officials
Speaker 1: in the NBA, and that, to me is a problem.
Speaker 1: They cared too much about their personal impact and fame
Speaker 1: on that stage, and it's bad for the game. It's
Speaker 1: always been that way, There's always been that dynamic, right
Speaker 1: Joey Craft or Dick Bavetta Scott fostered out. Egos certainly
Speaker 1: can get in the way, I think that you're absolutely
Speaker 1: right on a lot of this, Like I agree that
Speaker 1: the game should be officiating differently, But I think that
Speaker 1: the biggest takeaway for me here is that people have
Speaker 1: turned so much, and I think that this has really
Speaker 1: gotten worse with the legalization of sports betting in more places,
Speaker 1: and therefore sort of the idea that we can jump to,
Speaker 1: oh my god, people have money on this. Everything is rigged.
Speaker 1: Just the immediate blank aiming of officials for any outcome, right,
Speaker 1: the idea we saw it in the football season. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, that roughing the passer penalty in the Bengals game.
Speaker 1: How horrible. And then obviously the Super Bowl was sealed
Speaker 1: also by a call that some people felt was controversial,
Speaker 1: like and there's just a complete willful ignorance in this.
Speaker 1: Like in that game, Trey Young took as many free
Speaker 1: throws sixteen as he did shots, and a vast majority
Speaker 1: of those are elicited from non basketball plays flailing just
Speaker 1: throwing up shots hoping he gets that little bit of
Speaker 1: contact on the hip. He is the inventor, effectively of Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get this guy in jail out
Speaker 1: of the pick and roll. He's on my back right,
Speaker 1: he's stuck there and I'm gonna jump back into him,
Speaker 1: and that is, you know, at times, called a foul.
Speaker 1: They've tried to change rules because of Trey Young's exploitation.
Speaker 1: So it's just completely unaware the Sun's game. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: They've been out shot by a dozen or more free
Speaker 1: throws in four of their last six games, and it's
Speaker 1: because they're dead last and restricted area of field goals.
Speaker 1: And the Warriors just won a title in which they
Speaker 1: were twenty six and free throw attempts because they're a
Speaker 1: pull up jump shooting team like the Suns. The notion
Speaker 1: that you have to win the free throw battle to
Speaker 1: win the game is completely false. You win basketball games
Speaker 1: in different ways. The Suns aren't getting screwed. It's not
Speaker 1: their play style. They're not physical, and by the way,
Speaker 1: they're the fourth most foul pro team in the league.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the Lakers, as you said, are
Speaker 1: one of the most prolific teams at drawing free throws
Speaker 1: because they're big, they're physical, and they do have those
Speaker 1: guys who can get people out of position and elicit
Speaker 1: those fouls. So it's just very frustrating me. I mean,
Speaker 1: Trey Young saying something actually makes my blood boiled, because
Speaker 1: it's like, buddy, you are the problem, like you are
Speaker 1: the embodiment Luca insinuating that the refs are paid. It's
Speaker 1: like Lucas also in that top tier of Let me
Speaker 1: manipulate the refs, let me draw this questionable foul that
Speaker 1: is called by the books right now, but isn't good
Speaker 1: for basketball, not a basketball play. It's very frustrating, and
Speaker 1: I think that we need to have a real referendum
Speaker 1: here on. Hey guys, this isn't the two thousand and
Speaker 1: two Western Conference finals, right like, this is not well
Speaker 1: that might you know, that might be a legitimate. It's
Speaker 1: just bad rules and an honest bad call every once
Speaker 1: in a while. But you can't threaten that with, you know,
Speaker 1: sending these guys to the gallows, Like that's that's absurd.
Speaker 1: You don't get punished for messing up honestly as a player.
Speaker 1: Beyond the result. Reps are doing their best. It's just
Speaker 1: I agree with you. There's bad rules, and Trey Young
Speaker 1: is an exploitter of those bad rules. The whole thing
Speaker 1: is just one giant, intellectually dishonest debate because I'm so
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, Like you, that's just
Speaker 1: one part of the game of basketball. I literally talked
Speaker 1: about the center of last show that after Warriors Mavericks,
Speaker 1: like there are usually at least a half dozen things
Speaker 1: that go horribly wrong in a basketball game, and sometimes
Speaker 1: all six of them go against you. You know, like
Speaker 1: there was what was that Rockets Warriors game that won
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when Katie was still there,
Speaker 1: when he stepped like four feet out of bound on
Speaker 1: the baseline and the reft. It seems like like that's
Speaker 1: just that to me, is overcoming adversity. It's no different
Speaker 1: than you guys in your life. Over the course of
Speaker 1: the next month, you're gonna have two or three hand
Speaker 1: grenades lobbed into your life. Like that's just the reality.
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna be they're gonna be crawling going through
Speaker 1: your day, and you're gonna get a phone call and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be something really shitty and you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to find a way to like deal with that as
Speaker 1: you go through the rest of your day. And like
Speaker 1: this idea that it's gonna be this perfectly fair static
Speaker 1: environment is so silly to me. I saw that Lakers
Speaker 1: stat going around the other yesterday where it was like,
Speaker 1: the Lakers have by far the biggest free throw differential
Speaker 1: in the league this year, and it's like basic research.
Speaker 1: They're the only team in the league that is great
Speaker 1: at not fouling and drawing fouls. The second best free
Speaker 1: throw differential team in the league was the Miami Heat,
Speaker 1: who is seventeenth in getting to the foul line. It's
Speaker 1: just it just so happens that that they're one. They're
Speaker 1: that the one team that they're the one team that
Speaker 1: does both well, and people will be like, oh, but
Speaker 1: the Lakers are terrible. Why would they suddenly be good
Speaker 1: at that? It means nothing to be good at drawing
Speaker 1: fouls and to be good at def ending without fouling.
Speaker 1: You can do those things and also suck, you know how.
Speaker 1: I know that was the Lakers all year. They were
Speaker 1: a terrible defensive team, in large part because Anthony Davis
Speaker 1: was out. They were a terrible defensive team who also
Speaker 1: didn't foul. That's possible, right, Like, it's just there's there's
Speaker 1: so many moving parts in basketball games, and it's just again,
Speaker 1: I go back to that loser mentality thing, like no
Speaker 1: one cares about your specific struggles because they've got their
Speaker 1: own struggles, Like and no one cares that you don't
Speaker 1: have DeAndre Ayton for a big game because they're big.
Speaker 1: Guy's been out for a long time. Like everyone's dealing
Speaker 1: with diversity in this season. And for you to like
Speaker 1: just paint yourself as the victim that the refs are
Speaker 1: coming after you, that's not the type of mentality that's
Speaker 1: gonna push you over the top in a two two
Speaker 1: series against the you know, against the Clippers in the
Speaker 1: first round. If you feel like Game four was stolen
Speaker 1: from you by the refs, ask the Clippers what they'll
Speaker 1: they'll think. They'll be like Game fives on Wednesday, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to win, like like, no one cares.
Speaker 1: And so it's a loser mentality. That's why I think
Speaker 1: it's important to separate that from the issue with officiating.
Speaker 1: But we've already gone too long today, So we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna call it today, all right, guys. That is
Speaker 1: all we have for today. The plan as of right now,
Speaker 1: we are going I'm gonna be recording a video late
Speaker 1: tonight after all of the games that will be out
Speaker 1: bright and early on Saturday morning, and then we'll have
Speaker 1: another show on Sunday morning covering Saturday nights games, and
Speaker 1: then we're going late on Monday night. I can't remember
Speaker 1: what specific matchup that is, but we're breaking down a
Speaker 1: game late on Monday night. So plenty of shows over
Speaker 1: the course of the rest of this weekend and going
Speaker 1: through Monday. As always, I sincerely appreciate your guys supports.
Speaker 1: Chat out to Carson for giving us the time, and
Speaker 1: we will see you tomorrow morning. The volume