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Speaker 1: dot net in West Virginia. All right, Welcome to Hoops Tonight,

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Speaker 1: presented by Fan Duel here at the volume Happy Friday, everybody.

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Speaker 1: We are live on AMP. Don't forget if you're watching

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Speaker 1: on YouTube or listening on the podcast feed, so that

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Speaker 1: AMP is the very first place that you guys can

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Speaker 1: get these shows. We are going to go through five

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Speaker 1: big questions, primarily focusing on the Eastern Conference at least

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Speaker 1: here at the beginning with our guy Carson. Gonna get

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Speaker 1: into a bunch of good basketball stuff. You guys know

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Speaker 1: the drill before you get before we get started. Subscribe

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Speaker 1: to the Volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any

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Speaker 1: more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore

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Speaker 1: Jason lt. So you guys don't miss any show announcements.

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Speaker 1: shows and you can't get back over to YouTube, don't forget.

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Speaker 1: You can find them wherever you get your podcasts under

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Speaker 1: Hoops Tonight. On that note, let's talk some basketball with

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Speaker 1: mister Carson. How's it going, man, It's good to see you.

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Speaker 1: I am great, Jason, good to see you too, And

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Speaker 1: this is the best time of the year, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Or we're getting there. You can smell the playoffs in

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Speaker 1: the air, I feel, and as we get to this

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Speaker 1: time of year, obviously in the East, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: where we're gonna be focused at the start. Here there

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Speaker 1: are three clear front runners, and there have been for

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Speaker 1: most of the year now Milwaukee, Boston, Philly. Who do

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Speaker 1: you think is under the most pressure to win the

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Speaker 1: conference win the title this year out of that group? Jason, Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I think it's super interesting that you

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Speaker 1: said that you could smell it in the air, because,

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Speaker 1: like I'm straight up seeing some real playoff level intensity

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Speaker 1: in a lot of these games. I think in general,

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Speaker 1: the desperation is really starting to show through. We wake

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Speaker 1: up this morning in the Western Conference with a four

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Speaker 1: way tie for eighth. That's gonna get shaken out here

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Speaker 1: over the course of the next week or so. The

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Speaker 1: Lakers have a chance to get back to five hundreds.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's just scratching and clawn and it just feels

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Speaker 1: like playoff basketball. I'm excited about it. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's funny with this particular question, I immediately started to

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Speaker 1: look at the teams at the top, right, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at Boston, Milwaukee, and Philly. And the main reason why

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Speaker 1: is like, there is no pressure if you don't have

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Speaker 1: a real chance to win a title, that to me

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Speaker 1: is silly. And even for the teams that are pretty

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Speaker 1: close to the top, like Cleveland in particular, they are

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Speaker 1: this is their first year with this core. They're not

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Speaker 1: going to be upset as a massive underdog if they

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Speaker 1: lose in the second round. You know, the same thing

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Speaker 1: goes with New York. You know, Jalen Brunson, that experiment

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Speaker 1: has been a resounding success and it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be the end of the world if they don't win.

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Speaker 1: I think the one lower level team that might have

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Speaker 1: to take a deep look in the mirror if they

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Speaker 1: suffer an early exit would be Miami, just because there's

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Speaker 1: some severe talent deficiencies there. But among the top teams,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was really looking at just their stability

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Speaker 1: in the coming years, and Boston's payroll is completely locked up. Really,

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Speaker 1: the one guy they've got to work on the summer's

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Speaker 1: Grant Williams. If you look at Milwaukee, you know, Brook

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Speaker 1: Lopez is going to be a free agent, but I

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Speaker 1: think they're going to figure that out. Joe Ingles is

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Speaker 1: going to be a free agent. My guess is he

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Speaker 1: comes back. Those fits are just too natural, and I

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Speaker 1: think both of those guys succeed better in Milwaukee than

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Speaker 1: they would elsewhere, just because of the way their systems

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Speaker 1: are put together. Everything to me comes back to Philly

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Speaker 1: and like, look, they're pretty well put together from a

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Speaker 1: roster standpoint going into next season. But there's this James

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Speaker 1: Harden piece and he could theoretically be an unrestricted free

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Speaker 1: agent this summer. There's been intel that he might want

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Speaker 1: to go back to Houston, and from what I've heard,

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Speaker 1: there's it's not just like you know, a superficial reasons,

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Speaker 1: there might be some real reasons for him to want

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Speaker 1: to go back there. That doesn't mean he's going to

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Speaker 1: we don't know. But the reality is is like there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of pressure on this particular team. I

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Speaker 1: was talking with Sambassini on Tuesday, and we ranked Philly

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Speaker 1: as the most talented roster out of the MVP candidates.

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Speaker 1: They have a one of offensive skill. Their spot up

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Speaker 1: shooting is the best in the league right now, which

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Speaker 1: is a big deal next to guys like James Harden

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Speaker 1: and Joel Embiid that this is undeniably the apex of

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Speaker 1: Joel Embiad's career. He's playing better basketball than he's ever played.

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Speaker 1: James Harden is having an excellent season, kind of like

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Speaker 1: we thought he would. And so if for whatever reason

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Speaker 1: they flame out quickly, specifically under a disappointing performance from

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Speaker 1: someone like James Harden in particular, I think you could

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Speaker 1: see this team go in a different direction this offseason.

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Speaker 1: And so from that standpoint, there is legit pressure. I

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Speaker 1: think a key thing to watch over the course of

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Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks is them getting the two seed.

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Speaker 1: If they get the two seed. Not only will they

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Speaker 1: likely have to avoid Miami in the first round, but

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Speaker 1: also it puts them in a situation where they would

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Speaker 1: have home court advantage in that second round series against Boston,

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Speaker 1: which I think would be really important. What do you think, man, Well,

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Speaker 1: I like that angle a lot because I think they're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right if you're talking about the broader scope of

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Speaker 1: where are these teams going without a doubt, there is

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Speaker 1: the most uncertainty in Philly and therefore real pressure. And

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Speaker 1: also if you look at it from a legacy perspective,

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Speaker 1: I think that already Joel Embiad and James Harden in

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Speaker 1: a vacuum are up there for the best players to

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Speaker 1: never be the guy on a team to go to

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Speaker 1: the finals. Obviously Harden went there with Okac, but that

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Speaker 1: was not a team that was led by him, and

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Speaker 1: embat is only in year seven. But this is a

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Speaker 1: guy who's back to back MVP runner up and is

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Speaker 1: now going to be writing that conversation again. Darryl Morey

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Speaker 1: one of the best gms to never actually go out

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Speaker 1: there and win a title. Doc Rivers obviously much maligned

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Speaker 1: despite all of his career success because it's been fifteen

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Speaker 1: years since that title, and he's had a lot of

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Speaker 1: playoff letdowns and disappointments. So I agree with a lot

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Speaker 1: of what you've said. I kind of feel like, though,

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Speaker 1: in a vacuum for this year, it is Boston just

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Speaker 1: because last year we looked at them, they were the

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Speaker 1: best team in the league down the stretch of the

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Speaker 1: regular season, they seem to be the more talented team

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Speaker 1: going into the finals. They lost. They got better this year.

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Speaker 1: They improved the roster, adding your Malcolm Brogden's of the World,

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Speaker 1: Derek White got significantly better, Jason Tatum got better, and

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Speaker 1: they have been from the very jump this season the favorite,

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Speaker 1: and now they've started to let things slip a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But I do feel that there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: pressure there. We have now some of the dialogue from

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Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown about hey, I want to be where I'm wanted,

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Speaker 1: like who knows where things will go from here? Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan retired a wizard saying stuff like that. So although

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Speaker 1: there is definitely more certainty there, it does still feel

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Speaker 1: like this is a group that really wants to prove

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Speaker 1: that they can win it all because last year was

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Speaker 1: a great chance. This year it's gonna be tougher to

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Speaker 1: do it, but they're better, and I just feel that

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Speaker 1: the consistency with which they have been at the forefront

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Speaker 1: of that conversation. Boston's a favorite. Boston's a favorite. There

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Speaker 1: is definitely a ton of expectation to live up to

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Speaker 1: there a ton of pressure. Tatum wasn't good in the

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Speaker 1: finals last year. I feel like you could argue either

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Speaker 1: of those two. But I lean in a vacuum this

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Speaker 1: season Boston. That's super interesting and you're kind of swaying

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Speaker 1: me a little bit. Carson Um the Philly. There's undoubtedly

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Speaker 1: pressure on Philly. There's the James Harden element. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even think about the Doc Rivers element. That's an important part.

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Speaker 1: If they flame out, you have to think that they're

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Speaker 1: going to move off with Doc Rivers. The thing that

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Speaker 1: would be interesting with Boston is would you agree with

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Speaker 1: me that I with my opinion that Boston, from top

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Speaker 1: to bottom in terms of top end talent to different

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Speaker 1: types of player, versatility to depth, that Boston has the

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Speaker 1: most talent in the league. Would you agree with that? Yeah, unequivocally,

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Speaker 1: but I agree, I think they're the most talented. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're there, at least among the most talented tier of

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Speaker 1: teams in the league. So what would be really interesting

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Speaker 1: is if they lost ugly, like in Round two against Philly,

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Speaker 1: would you start to look at it as a situation

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Speaker 1: with team construction in the lack of high level playmaking.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I mean real high level playmaking, not like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we've got not aggregate playmaking. From what Tatum can do

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Speaker 1: some nights, with what Marcus Smart can do some nights,

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Speaker 1: and with what Derek White can do some knights, and

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Speaker 1: with what Malcolm Brogden can do some nights, I mean

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Speaker 1: top tier playmaking, because if we go back through NBA history,

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Speaker 1: it's like twenty twenty two, I got Steph Curry, who

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Speaker 1: his combination of on ball and off ball playmaking is

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Speaker 1: I would argue top tier. I've always jokingly when I

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Speaker 1: would say those top four playmakers, and I'd say Luca

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Speaker 1: and Yokich and Lebron and Chris Paul, I'd always kind

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Speaker 1: of throws Steph in as the honorary fifth because of

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Speaker 1: his offball gravity, you know. And then I go back

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Speaker 1: to twenty twenty one and Janis is a much better

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Speaker 1: playmaker than Tatum Brown, and I think that was a

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Speaker 1: sneaky kind of storyline of his development has been everyone

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Speaker 1: looking at the shot. Really it was his passing ability

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Speaker 1: that kind of turned things around for him. You know,

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Speaker 1: I go back to twenty twenty and it's Lebron freaking James.

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Speaker 1: You know, twenty nineteen is a little weird, but it's

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Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry and he's a better playmaker than anybody on

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Speaker 1: this Boston roster. Eighteen seventeen, I've got the Warriors. Sixteen,

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Speaker 1: I've got Lebron. Fifteen, I've got the Warriors fourteen, I've

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Speaker 1: got that Spurs machine, thirteen twelve, I've got Lebron. You'd

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Speaker 1: have to go back all the way to twenty eleven

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Speaker 1: to find a team. And even then, it's like Jason

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Speaker 1: Kidd was the guy that was running that offense. And

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Speaker 1: so I think there would be an interesting discussion to

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Speaker 1: have if Boston flamed out early about whether or not

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Speaker 1: they would need to look to flip either Jalen or

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Speaker 1: Jason for a higher level playmaker, simply from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: of the fact that that might be the only way

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Speaker 1: they could reach that championship ceiling. This Boston team effectively

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Speaker 1: is the point guard by committee type team and it's

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Speaker 1: just a question. It's just a question of whether or

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Speaker 1: not you can win like that. What do you think, Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very interesting question. And I was

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Speaker 1: skeptical of the Tatum Brown pairing for that fundamental reason.

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Speaker 1: Like if you go back to two years ago when

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Speaker 1: they were a five hundred team, right, and then the

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Speaker 1: start of last year where they were five hundred a

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Speaker 1: quarter of the way through the season. My fundamental belief was,

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Speaker 1: you have to be if you're going to be a

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Speaker 1: great offense led by two wings, like in that Clippers

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Speaker 1: model that we had seen work right, kawaipg both very

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Speaker 1: good positional playmakers with like historically great shooting around them,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, Jalen Brown is not that level

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Speaker 1: of a playmaker. Tatum at that point, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure he's at that level as a playmaker.

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Speaker 1: And even Kauai in PG we've talked about some of

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Speaker 1: their offensive structural issues in the past. It can still

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Speaker 1: get weird. I always definitely valued that great playmaking presence.

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Speaker 1: Now it's tough to sit here and say, all right, well,

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Speaker 1: they just got to the finals. They were on the verge,

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Speaker 1: and this year they've been up there for the best

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Speaker 1: offense in the league. And they do have several good playmakers, right,

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Speaker 1: they just don't have that one leading force. And they

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Speaker 1: do maintain such a defensive ende by keeping edge, by

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Speaker 1: keeping that wing Tanma together and such a shot making edge.

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Speaker 1: I think that what they're doing is they're trying to

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Speaker 1: establish a new archetype. They're trying to show us that

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Speaker 1: you can have a team that is led by two

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Speaker 1: great wings who are good enough at the playmaking and

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Speaker 1: you can sort of not subjugate that lead guard playmaking

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Speaker 1: role but make it secondary and just get those solid

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Speaker 1: supporting pieces there. So I do think that this team

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Speaker 1: is good enough. But yeah, if they fail in catastrophic fashion,

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Speaker 1: and if it's because man Tatum and Brown are making

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Speaker 1: bad decisions and they're struggling with the difficult shot making,

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Speaker 1: I could see that being a look in the mirror

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Speaker 1: kind of moment. But I honestly do feel that this

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Speaker 1: Boston team is good enough. They're not my favorite this year.

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Speaker 1: I do think that Milwaukee is the best, and part

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Speaker 1: of that is a faith in Jannie over Tatum thing,

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Speaker 1: because I do think that Boston top to bottom has

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Speaker 1: a better roster. But it's a very interesting. It's one

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Speaker 1: that I've thought about for this team for years. I've

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Speaker 1: I've one last follow up before we move on. Miami

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Speaker 1: experience is a disappointing flame out. Boston experience is a

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Speaker 1: disappointing flame out. And Brad Stevens calls up pat Riley

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Speaker 1: and offers Jaylen Brown for Jimmy Butler, who says that

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Speaker 1: I think Boston says now because of age. Fundamentally, I

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Speaker 1: think the Jimmy's better, But I think that you'll take

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Speaker 1: your eight years of prime Jalen if you can retain

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Speaker 1: him over well not maybe not eight, but you know,

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Speaker 1: six or whatever versus like, who knows how many of Jimmy.

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Speaker 1: Two things are changing, all right, Medicine is insane Now,

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Speaker 1: guys play until they're thirty eight Lebron, But I would

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Speaker 1: I would think that Boston would say no to that.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? I agree? But that would be

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Speaker 1: an example of like a win now type of trade

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Speaker 1: for a player that I think immediately makes them a

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Speaker 1: significantly larger championship threat because Jimmy kind of addresses two

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Speaker 1: specific needs the toughness piece and that shot creation piece

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Speaker 1: from that like big playmaker. Again, that's just fantasy basketball

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Speaker 1: that'll never happen, but it was just it was just

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Speaker 1: kind of an example of what I was looking at.

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Speaker 1: We can move on now. Yeah, no, that is an

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Speaker 1: interesting thought, and trust me, I love Jimmy. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, I think Miami will have a disappointing play out.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they're not winning a playoff series in

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Speaker 1: this East. But it's interesting that you mentioned them because

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Speaker 1: again we have been so focused on that tier of

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Speaker 1: the top three teams. Who outside of that group of Boston,

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Speaker 1: Milwaukee and Philly do you think actually has the best

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Speaker 1: chance to win the East? Jason, So I think you're

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Speaker 1: going to disagree with me here based on what you

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Speaker 1: just said. But I considered three different teams here, and

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Speaker 1: there's a bunch of different There's a bunch of different

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Speaker 1: elements that break down here, because a lot of it

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Speaker 1: has to do with matchups, like a lot is going

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Speaker 1: to come down to who finishes in that two three

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Speaker 1: race between a Boston and Philly. But the three teams

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Speaker 1: that I considered beneath that top tier in the East

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Speaker 1: that actually have a chance. I looked at the Calves,

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Speaker 1: the Knicks in the heat, and so what I tried

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Speaker 1: to do to try to minimize any sort of subjectivity

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Speaker 1: from it, or at least minimize some of the subjectivity.

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Speaker 1: Is I broke it down into some categories that I

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Speaker 1: find super important for championship runs. And I looked at

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Speaker 1: half court shot creation, half court play, finishing, rim protection,

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Speaker 1: perimeter defense, physical strength, versatility of play style, and superstars.

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Speaker 1: And so when I looked at half court shot creation,

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Speaker 1: I actually gave a slight nod to the Knicks. I

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Speaker 1: have come around so much on Julius Randall and Jalen

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Speaker 1: Brunson as a duo. I think they represent a super

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Speaker 1: complimentary duo in the sense that Jalen Brunson is that

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Speaker 1: like high pick and roll ISO guy, and then that

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Speaker 1: has some of the higher level playmaking. And Julius Randall's

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Speaker 1: like that big matchup attacking forward that like, when things

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Speaker 1: break down, he could just bully his way to ten

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Speaker 1: feet and take a little twelve to thirteen foot fade away. Right.

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Speaker 1: Even though I would argue Jimmy's the best overall player,

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Speaker 1: the two of those two guys together I think make

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Speaker 1: better half course shot creation, half court play finishing. I

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Speaker 1: actually give it to the Heat. There's just a way

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Speaker 1: better perimeter shooting team than the Knicks and the Calves.

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Speaker 1: In rim protection, I went with the Calves. In perimeter defense,

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Speaker 1: I went with the Knicks. I've been super impressed with

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Speaker 1: the Knicks guards as of late with physical strength, though

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Speaker 1: I went to the Heat. I think they're just a

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Speaker 1: little bit more stout in that front line, and they're

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Speaker 1: some of their guards like guys like Max Strus and

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Speaker 1: Kyle Lowry, are super broad, low center of gravity, guys

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Speaker 1: that can hold up in physical confrontations, versatility of play

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Speaker 1: style with Miami. They can run drop coverage, they can

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Speaker 1: run switching schemes. They're extremely smart tactically on both ends

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Speaker 1: of the floor. So I put them number one there

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Speaker 1: and then for superstars. Undoubtedly among that group, I would

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Speaker 1: trust Jimmy Butler more than any of those other players

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Speaker 1: on the other teams, and so I tallied them up.

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Speaker 1: If you finish first on that list, I gave you

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Speaker 1: three points. If you finished second on that list, I

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Speaker 1: gave you two points, And if you finish third, I

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Speaker 1: gave you one point. In the final tally, I had

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Speaker 1: seventeen for the Heat, fourteen for the Knicks, and eleven

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Speaker 1: for the Cavs. So like, I actually think out of

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Speaker 1: that group, based on the things that I value the

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Speaker 1: most about playoff basketball, that I still think the Heat

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Speaker 1: are the biggest threat to anybody, But a lot of

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Speaker 1: it comes down to matchups. Like I think i'd give

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Speaker 1: them a puncher's chance if Boston slipped down to three,

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Speaker 1: I'd give him a puncher's chance to beat Boston, just

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Speaker 1: because there's a mental advantage there. They've beat him twice

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Speaker 1: again this year. They almost beat him in the playoffs

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Speaker 1: last year. But if they end up facing off with Philly,

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Speaker 1: I don't like that matchup as much, just because especially

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Speaker 1: with the way that they're going to have to crowd

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Speaker 1: embid with their physical disadvantages, and how good Philly is

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Speaker 1: shooting off the ball. Well, I think I like how

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Speaker 1: you went about this. I mean it's very interesting to

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Speaker 1: have the precise calculation there. The one factor though, that

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Speaker 1: I think of missing from that is that Miami is

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Speaker 1: gonna have to play Boston or Philly probably in the

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Speaker 1: first round, and Cleveland and New York can kind of

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Speaker 1: go at each other. And bottom line, I'm not confident

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Speaker 1: in any of these teams beating any of the three

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Speaker 1: big dogs. Like I do think that there's a clear

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Speaker 1: drop off if I were to pick one, though, I

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Speaker 1: think it might be New York, and I'm tempted to

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Speaker 1: say Cleveland. I know that you're not a big Cleveland

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Speaker 1: guy in the scope of contention. What I do like

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Speaker 1: about them is I think they have the combination potentially

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Speaker 1: of dominant interior defense and therefore dominant defense overall. Like

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Speaker 1: as much as they may struggle at the point of attack,

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Speaker 1: they've been the best defense in the league or top

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Speaker 1: two for basically the majority of this season because they

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Speaker 1: have an interior tandem like nobody else in the league.

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Speaker 1: And Mobli is an absolute monster with his versatility too

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Speaker 1: and dynamic perimeter shop making. Because who do you trust

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Speaker 1: more if you're talking about below that true superstar tier

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Speaker 1: to carry you through a playoff series or multiple playoffs series.

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Speaker 1: Then Donovan Mitchell. He's one of the most prolific playoff

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Speaker 1: scorers of all time. And there's just such a dynamism

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Speaker 1: of off the dribble, shot making, attacking the rim. And

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Speaker 1: then to have Darius Garland is your second guy, that

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Speaker 1: to me is like a really impressive, Hey, if we

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Speaker 1: can It's like they're more talented and the East was

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Speaker 1: horrible at this time. But it's sort of like if

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Speaker 1: you think about like an AI formula right dominant interior

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Speaker 1: defense one guy, except they even have a second star

389
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Speaker 1: level guy in Darius Garland. The problem is they suck

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Speaker 1: on the wings and their depth sucks, and I think

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Speaker 1: that that just knocks them down a bit to me

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Speaker 1: to where I agree with you. I really really like

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Speaker 1: the star Tanem from New York right now, and who knows, right,

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Speaker 1: Julius Randall has basically been defined by what level is

395
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Speaker 1: he going to be as a jump shooter. He was

396
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Speaker 1: all MBA because he was making his mid range pull ups,

397
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Speaker 1: he was shooting well from deep. Then everybody decided he

398
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Speaker 1: sucked because he was missing those shots. And guess what,

399
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Speaker 1: he kinda did suck last year. Then at the start

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Speaker 1: of this year he was missing those shots, and then

401
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 1: for the last six weeks or whatever, he's been blazing.

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00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 1: And so I don't know how much I can trust that,

403
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 1: but yeah, if he's dialed in, I love Jalen Brunson

404
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Speaker 1: point blank. I trust him at all times. I think

405
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Speaker 1: that the wing combinations that they get from your Josh Hearts,

406
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Speaker 1: your Quentin Grimes, that is better than what you're seeing

407
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Speaker 1: from Cleveland certainly, and they're a good defensive team overall.

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Speaker 1: IQ I just think they have more basketball players who

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Speaker 1: I trust, and because they have that legit star Tanem too,

410
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Speaker 1: because I do see a relatively high two way ceiling.

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Speaker 1: It's like if Brunson and Randall are both putting up

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Speaker 1: their twenty eight to night, which you as kind of crazy,

413
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Speaker 1: but they did it for a month right like we

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Speaker 1: just saw it pretty much, they would be probably the

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Speaker 1: scariest to me because Cleveland's depth and wing play is

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Speaker 1: just too lacking. Dude, Josh Hart has been such an

417
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Speaker 1: interesting swing piece. He's so good at so many little

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Speaker 1: basketball things that he just immediately makes seems better really

419
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Speaker 1: quickly before you move on. Miami is seven and three

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Speaker 1: in their last ten fourth and offense Jimmy Butler twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: seven and six on fifty nine forty seven eighty six

422
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: splits with two point one stocks. Kyle Lowry has been back,

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00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: and he just brings that little bit of playmaking out

424
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,439
Speaker 1: of high pick and roll to get the get the

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Speaker 1: shooters the shots they need in the spots. So they

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Speaker 1: like that was a big part of how they beat

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Speaker 1: New York was his late game playmaking the other night.

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Speaker 1: And I do worry a little bit about their closing

429
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: lineup Kyle Lowry and Tyler Harrow, Jimmy and Bam that

430
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: fifth guy. They've been doing a lot of Caleb Martin,

431
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: but I wonder in the playoffs and the like, if

432
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,719
Speaker 1: that's gonna be big enough. I think they might have

433
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: to go someone like Strew's who's just a little bit

434
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: more stout, and so I worry about them in some

435
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: specific matchups. But they're They're definitely coming on at the

436
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: right time, and I do think there's a certain amount

437
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:53,239
Speaker 1: of fear there. I do think that there's certainly some

438
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: validity to that, right, Like Jimmy is the guy who

439
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: you have to trust the most. I love Donovan Mitchell,

440
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: but Jimmy's all around impact, Like we've seen it, right,

441
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: He's gotten a team to the finals where he was incredible,

442
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: and he's gotten a team to the brink of the

443
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 1: finals again last year. And the shooting ceiling is there.

444
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: They're good defensively. I have just been so dissuaded by

445
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 1: the persistent offensive lulls that we've seen. I mean, there's

446
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: still twenty fifth and offensive raining or something like, I

447
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: know that if Jimmy goes supernova, he can get them there.

448
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: But just with Lowry's regression, bands had a very good season,

449
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: but He's still is not an ideal like guy to

450
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: lean on offensively heroes. His inconsistencies and their depth is fine,

451
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: but it's not something that I love, and so because

452
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: of that, I'm I'm just a little bit out on Miami.

453
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: I also just don't really enjoy watching them, and maybe

454
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a bias there, but like, ye, yeah,

455
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: I mean every other year, Oh yeah, he certainly does not.

456
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: He's got an anti Jimmy Butler agenda. The NBA season

457
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: is coming down to the wire, and now is the

458
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,200
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469
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470
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Speaker 1: partner of the NBA. Let's pivot out west here and

479
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: talk about a team that has consistently been towards the

480
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: top of the standings. But I think that a lot

481
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 1: of people you and I both included, have had some

482
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: serious questions about in terms of legitimate contention, and that

483
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: is the Memphis Grizzlies. Jason, even when Jaw returns, what's

484
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: their realistic title chance? I don't necessarily think that there

485
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: is much of a chance there. I look at it

486
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: pretty simply. Teams are going to pack the pain on

487
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: them like crazy. Without Brandon Clark, I think you're going

488
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: to see a lot of Xavier Tilman and Steven Adams

489
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: if you can get healthy in time in the postseason.

490
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: These are the only teams in the league were set

491
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: converting spot up opportunities in Memphis, Detroit, Orlando, Houston, Charlotte,

492
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: in Atlanta. That's it. They are one of the worst

493
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: spacing teams in the league. And so from that standpoint,

494
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: I just keep thinking so much is going to come

495
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: down to John Morant and his ability to knock down

496
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: for him jump shots, and he just this season, especially

497
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: off the dribble, has not been very accurate. He's only

498
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: shooting about thirty percent on pull up threes this year.

499
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: And so I don't and I've talked to this to death.

500
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: I swear I've made this same rant like three times

501
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: in the last week. So I don't want to go

502
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 1: too much further into it, but I just don't think

503
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: they have the requisite amount of offensive skill. But I

504
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: did want to take this as an opportunity to present

505
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: you with the question, Carson, one that I briefly floated

506
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: with you over text message the other day, but I

507
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of dive into it a little bit

508
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: deeper on the show. So I think that unquestionably right now,

509
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: Jaw is a better player than Jaren Jackson. But I

510
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: also think that Jaren Jackson is unquestionably the most important

511
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: player to Memphis, particularly as it pertains to their floor.

512
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: And I think you see that neon off numbers. They're

513
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: only about five points better when Jaw is on versus off,

514
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: but they are eleven points better per one hundred possessions

515
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: when Jaren Jackson is on versus when he's off. Basically

516
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: the differences is they're in extremely average team when Jaron

517
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: Jackson's off the floor, and they are an elite double

518
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: digit net rating team when Jaron Jackson is on the floor.

519
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: And you know, it kind of reminds me a little

520
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: bit of the Lebron Anthony Davis dynamic, where there's no

521
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: doubt Lebron's the better player, and especially in the late

522
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: rounds of the playoffs in twenty twenty, you saw that.

523
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: But take Anthony Davis off that team and they're so

524
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: devoid of real front court versatility that the bottom falls

525
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: out usually now to Lebron's credit because he's so damn good.

526
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: He's floated that team around five hundred without a d

527
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: all season. But that's Lebron James, the second greatest player

528
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: of all time. Like, but that dynamic is what the

529
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: John Moray at Jaron Jackson thing reminds me of. Jah's

530
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: clearly the best player, but Jaron Jackson's that guy that

531
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: is so important foundationally to what they do defensively that

532
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: he's the hardest for them to replace. Now, I think

533
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: right now he's already one of the best defensive players

534
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: in the league, and he's showing a lot of flashes

535
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: offensively as a rim pressuring like rip through a physically

536
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: aggressive straight line drive forward, and he's flashing some of

537
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: that perimeter shooting stuff. I think that if he can

538
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: make some moderate improvements as a ball handler and was

539
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: seeing the floor and can get to the point where

540
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: he consistently can average about twenty five points per game

541
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: efficiently with what he can do defensively, I think he's

542
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: capable of being an even better player than what John

543
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: morantis And that's not bad for Memphis. That's great for

544
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: Memphis because if you can have two of those guys

545
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: that's excellent. Am I too high on Jared Jackson? I

546
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: think if you're talking about him being up in that

547
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 1: twenty five a game range, that's a little higher than

548
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm comfortable with. And I will say he is a

549
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: completely different player this year and then he has been previously.

550
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: Like last year, there were stretches where I would have

551
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: said Jaren Jackson Junior was an offensive negative because he

552
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: shot the ball very poorly. He was a playmaking zero.

553
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: But most importantly, and this was my biggest issue with him,

554
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: was he was soft. Right. He was this six ten, big,

555
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 1: quite athletic guy who could handle the ball, and he

556
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: was addicted to his floaters and he wasn't good at them. Now,

557
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: I think you've seen him this year be consistently more aggressive,

558
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: more physical. He's getting all the way downhill more and

559
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: he's making those floaters, those push shots like in the

560
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: paint outside the restricted area issues better than fifty percent.

561
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: That's a pretty elite mark, and he's hitting his threes.

562
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: So my questions with his ceiling are more related to

563
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: how much can you entrust him with offensive responsibility when

564
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: to me, he really does feel like, hey, Triple J,

565
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: go attack this mismatch, right, and there's a lot of

566
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: mismatches for him, but his playmaking is just not there.

567
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: I mean, he's still under an assisting A is a

568
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: guy who's putting up his eighteen a night, and I

569
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: sometimes a lot of the times guys grow into that

570
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: skill set, right the more they handle the ball. I

571
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: just don't know how much Triple J is gonna be

572
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: entrusted with that because he's not a wing, right, He's

573
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: a four who can get downhill because he handles the

574
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: ball pretty well, and he's big and strong and athletic

575
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: and he has that touch finishing. So that's one of

576
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: my concerns. And then the other one is just it

577
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: really is get to the rim or knock down to

578
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: three with him. I mean, he doesn't have the floater game, right,

579
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: but there's no certainly no pull up jump shooting from

580
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: that mid range element, which I do just think if

581
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: you're talking about twenty five point per game scoring, elite

582
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: scoring like that, it does help to have. I could

583
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: see him getting into twenty twenty two, and at that

584
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: point there is an argument to be made because what

585
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: I would say is Triple J is at that point

586
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: like an ideal number two right, because he's elite defensively,

587
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: and he's gonna be efficient and pretty darn productive offensively,

588
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: and he's not gonna step on the toes really of

589
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: your primary guy, because he's gonna get his stuff quickly.

590
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: But there is still a value that a job Morant

591
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: can bring even with his at times efficiency issues and

592
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: his defensive issues. Playoff career for Jaw, he's averaged twenty

593
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: eight points nine assist per game, solid efficiency, but you

594
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: just feel it in certain series, in certain games, it's like, man,

595
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: he's the thing keeping them alive offensively because he just

596
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: keeps coming at you. There's a physical imposition, there's a

597
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: playmaking that feeds off of his rim pressuring. There's a

598
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: relentlessness getting to the line, which is always good, valuable,

599
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: efficient offense to have, And that is like a value

600
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: that a Triple J just could never reach. To me.

601
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: You need your Jaw Morant, I guess is what I'm

602
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: saying here. You need your perimeter driving force, and their

603
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: values are just very different. Triple J could be the

604
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: ideal complimentary guy. Jaw could be a not top tier

605
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: top guy, but a guy who can in a specific run,

606
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: take you pretty far. I think so, I don't think

607
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: you're crazy. You're saying that Triple J could be the

608
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: better guy in a couple of years, but I'm not

609
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: quite as high on him as you are. Well, and again,

610
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: it's not one thing or the other, like ideally you

611
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: have both, and I don't think I think that. Again,

612
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm high on Jared Jackson. And to

613
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: me again, like even if Jared Jackson were to supersede

614
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: John Moray in total basketball value, which I actually think

615
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: it's a little closer now than people are willing to admit,

616
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: but even if you were to supersede him in overall

617
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: basketball value, John Moraine will always represent the ceiling. The

618
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: same thing goes with Lebron James. Like the truth of

619
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: the matter is like they can't do anything without Anthony Davis.

620
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: He's so important to them as that foundational piece. But

621
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: they are not hoisting the trophy in twenty twenty three

622
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: unless Lebron James goes on another vintage playoff perimeter initiation run.

623
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: Like that's just the reality this year and in the future.

624
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: Nothing works unless John Morant can reach that same level

625
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: offensively as a perimeter initiator. But the reality is like

626
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: I've I've talked a lot with Memphis this year. Don't

627
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: think they can do it this year, flat out, don't

628
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: think it's even on the table. But I am a

629
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: huge believer in this core moving forward. The dynamic of that,

630
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: like you called it, the Alan Iverson dynamic, but that

631
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: John Morant with the outstanding interior defense, with that Dylan Brooks,

632
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: the guy you could throw out the other team's best player.

633
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: If you bring in the requisite amount of offensive skill

634
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: to supplement those guys in the rotation, I think that

635
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: they can absolutely win an NBA championship. This is not

636
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: like I actually think, excuse me, I actually think Cleveland

637
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: has some significant limitations. They don't have They don't have

638
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: that same level of like physical girth, you know, in

639
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: terms of like just their ability to hold up in

640
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: the super physicality environments. I'm actually a little higher on

641
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: Memphis long even though I think Cleveland's better now and

642
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: so again, it's more just to me, it's just a

643
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: point of optimism. I am super high on Jaren Jackson,

644
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: and I think it puts him in a good spot

645
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: moving forward. I love how you put it. That was

646
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: exactly what I was trying to say Triple J can

647
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: be the more valuable, better overall player. Jaw will always

648
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: represent the ceiling. They will always need that offensive engine

649
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: to even get in the door. But yeah, Triple J

650
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: could do some special stuff. I mean, it's like you said,

651
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: he's already up there for the best defensive player in

652
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: the league. And I agree with you about memphisis issues.

653
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: Not a good enough half court offensive team, not skilled

654
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: enough offensively. I love Desmond Baine, He's a step in

655
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: the right direction. It's still not quite enough with their

656
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: spot up issues. And Joe also hasn't been good enough

657
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,959
Speaker 1: this year when he's been out there at just point blank,

658
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: his pull up jump shooting hasn't been good enough. He

659
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: hasn't been efficient enough, and they need him to be great.

660
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 1: So let's talk now about another story that has sort

661
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: of gripped the NBA. And it's not the first time

662
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: that it's happened, but Mario Chalmers came out and said

663
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: on a podcast as former NBA role players love to

664
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: do talking about NBA greats, and said that people don't

665
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: fear Lebron And we've always heard this right, people don't

666
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: fear Lebron. No Chill Gill came out and said, you know,

667
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: you're not scared of a guy who's going to give

668
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: you twenty nine, nine and nine. I probably would be.

669
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: But why is there this narrative, Jason that players don't

670
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: fear Lebron? What's your take on it? Carson? Can you

671
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: give me a favor? While while I'm ranting in an

672
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: infuriating fashion, can you look up for me? How many

673
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: times Lebron James scored forty plus in the twenty eighteen

674
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: playoffs If I remember, he was eight. So okay, I'm

675
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: so glad we're finally getting around to this. This This has

676
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: been irritating me for about a week, but we just

677
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: haven't had an opportunity just because of how crazy the

678
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: basketball has been all the time. So here's where I'm at.

679
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: I think people have and maybe it's just time. I

680
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, but for some reason, I

681
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: think people are forgetting just how dominant Lebron James's playoff

682
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: resume is. It's not the same as MJ's, but it's

683
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: pretty damn dominant, certainly within this era. He has four championships.

684
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: The only players that are comparable are the Warrior's core,

685
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: and they did it when they added Kevin Durant to

686
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: the team and they haven't been nearly as successful without him.

687
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: He has four finals MVPs. The closest is Kevin Durant

688
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: or Kawhi Leonard with two. He has ten conference titles.

689
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: The closest is the Warrior's Core with six. Here is

690
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: a list of players that Lebron James has beaten four

691
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: times out of seven in a playoff series. Paul Pierce

692
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: three times, Kevin Garnett three times, MVP, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony,

693
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: Paul George four times, Kevin Durant, James Harden twice, Russell

694
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: Westbrook twice, Tim Duncan, Steph Curry, Jason Tatum, Damian Lillard,

695
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: Nicola Yokich, Jimmy Butler. He may not be the same

696
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: level of dominance that MJ had in the nineties, and

697
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: that certainly is a differentiating factor for me right now

698
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: between those two guys. Lebron James within this era has

699
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: unquestionably been a dominant player. There is not a player

700
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: that has impacted winning for as long or as frequently

701
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: as Lebron James has, and it's not close. Even Steph Curry,

702
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: who's the closest to him. There is a chasm between

703
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: Lebron James and Steph Curry. You could take half of

704
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: Lebron james career resume, and it matches what Steph has

705
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: accomplished in his career. I can absolutely guarantee you, beyond

706
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: a shadow of a doubt that when a team prepares

707
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: to face Lebron James in a playoff series over the

708
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: last fifteen years or whatever, that there has been more

709
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: than the appropriate amount of fear and fear and respect

710
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: for what he's capable of in that series. If you

711
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: go into a series with the Lebron James team feeling

712
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: like you have a chance to win, it's because you

713
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: like some matchup somewhere else on the roster where you've

714
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: got a good chance, not because you expect to outplay

715
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: Lebron James. That has never ever been the case, and

716
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 1: that's the same type of appropriate fear that existed for mj. Look.

717
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: I still have Michael Jordan as my greatest of all time,

718
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: and I think Lebron James needs to do more to

719
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: surpass him. But the reality is is it's getting closer

720
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: and closer, and right now it is very close, and

721
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: the closer it gets the more people have to go

722
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: away from real basketball arguments and start relying on these

723
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: completely meaningless platitudes, like random abstract concepts like fear. And

724
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: this fear thing is just the latest example of that.

725
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: I think I agree with a lot of what you said.

726
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: I do think there's a dynamic of this that is,

727
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: it's about archetypes people when they talk about fear, they

728
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: I think, favor a couple things, part of which is

729
00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: like the just bloodthirstiness, the deranged and obvious competitiveness that

730
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: you get from a Michael Jordan or Calby Bryant. Right.

731
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 1: I think people romanticize that it doesn't have to do

732
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: with how great you are as a basketball player, when

733
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: Lebron James is still absurdly competitive and is never gonna

734
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: shy away from the moment. But there is just that

735
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: ROTI the romanticization of this guy is gonna come right

736
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: at me, He's gonna come at my throat, He's gonna isolate, right.

737
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: And I also think that there's a skill bias with

738
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: all of this, where people talk about being so scared

739
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 1: of a Jordan, of a Kobe because of difficult shot making,

740
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: because of hey, I'm gonna back I'm gonna take you

741
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: to the post. I'm gonna pivot six times, I'm gonna

742
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: pull out a crazy spin, I'm gonna nail this shot

743
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: right in your face. And it's relentless, right, And I

744
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: just think that people revere that. But oftentimes basketball is

745
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: about making the right play. It's about creating your high

746
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: probability looks, getting downhill for a layup, creating an open

747
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: three for a teammate. And who has ever done that

748
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: better in the scoring playmaker in combination than Lebron. Nobody

749
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: in my opinion. So it's not about actual basketball. You're right,

750
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: because even if it is about well, he's not gonna

751
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: come right at you and you know, drop forty on you,

752
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 1: as you said it was eight times in the twenty

753
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: eighteen playoffs. Well done. He is undeniably one of the

754
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: greatest scores we've ever seen. And by the way, I

755
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd be pretty scared of a two hundred

756
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: and sixty pound freight train coming at me and over

757
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: over again. You think Steph in the in the twenty

758
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 1: eighteen finals Game one was like, ah, oh, Lebron, he's

759
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: gonna dry me again. Yeah, we'll see how this goes

760
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: like it's an absurd, absurd thing, and it's the same

761
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: thing where like for fifteen years it's been a topic

762
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: of his Lebron wrong for passing the ball to the

763
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: open guy on the last possession. People have an idea

764
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: of what makes a great basketball player in their mind,

765
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of it is because Michael

766
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: Jordan was the dream. He was perfection, and so it

767
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: was like, whoever can get closest to Mike is the dream. Therefore,

768
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily true, like Lebron is effectively equally great,

769
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: just in a different way. You know. It's interesting because

770
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: even if we try to define this abstract concept of fear,

771
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: like if you asked me to try to explain the

772
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: impact that fear could have on a basketball game, the

773
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: best thing that I could do to describe it is

774
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: having your opponent play below their capability simply because they

775
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: lack confidence in their ability to beat you. And I

776
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: have literally seen that happen dozens of times in Lebron

777
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: James's career, Like I go back and I look at

778
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: I literally watched Lebron James in twenty twenty after Kawhi Leonard,

779
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: one of the very archetypes of players that you described

780
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: as the type of person that we naturally associate with

781
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: this type of fear fail to put the Denver Nuggets away.

782
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: I watched Lebron James do it with what Kauhi is

783
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: best at, pull up jump shooting earlier in that playoff run.

784
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: I watched him deliberately target Russell Westbrook in athleticism plays.

785
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: Lebron has hardly hunted chase down blocks in the last

786
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: half decade. He had like four of them against Russell

787
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: Westbrook just to prove a point that like, hey, you're

788
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: the most freaky athlete of your generation. I'm older than you,

789
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: and I'm still more athletic than you. You know. I

790
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: go back to I go back to twenty eighteen, and

791
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: I watched a Toronto Toronto Raptors team that had won

792
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: what fifty nine games, that was favored to win the series,

793
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 1: and I watched Lebron suck the life out of them

794
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: in two games in Toronto on their way to the sweep.

795
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 1: They vastly underperformed their potential because they were they simply

796
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: did not believe they could beat him, even though they

797
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: had a better team. That is that same type of

798
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: fear I go back to twenty fifteen. In twenty sixteen

799
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: when Lebron beat the Warriors and damn near did it

800
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: without Kyrie and Kevin Love, and it was mostly because

801
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: both Clay Thompson and Steph Curry played well below their

802
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: capability in large part because they were not confident in

803
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: that setting in the same way that Lebron James was.

804
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: And I can go further and further back over time,

805
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: but Lebron James has absolutely had that mental impact on

806
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: his opponents. It's different, like you said, it's not the oh,

807
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: He's just gonna take these ridiculously tough shots and all

808
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: we can do is just pray that he misses, like

809
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: it is with some of these great scores of all time.

810
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: But what it is is it's a lack of confidence

811
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: in the ability to beat him in basketball games. That's

812
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: the same type of abstract concept, even if you don't

813
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: associate it with the same visceral reaction of fear that

814
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: you might have with the high with the high volume score.

815
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: And again, like there is Carson, an interesting basketball debate

816
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: to have about Lebron James versus Michael Jordan. They're two

817
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: completely different archetypes. Their team constructs throughout their career are

818
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: so different. Like I think if Lebron James had Anthony

819
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: Davis from the time that he entered the league, he'd

820
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: be his Scottie Pippen and they played together for twelve years.

821
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: But you know what, that's not how it worked. He

822
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: didn't find a legit costar until Dwayne Wade, who immediately

823
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: broke down. And then he found Kyrie and then he

824
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: broke down mentally and physically, and then he found Anthony

825
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: Davis and he's breaking down physically, Like like, it's been

826
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: a completely different career arc. There is an interesting conversation

827
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: to have to dive into all those elements, but instead

828
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, but what about the fear scale? And

829
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: it just makes everybody dumber and it's completely dishonest, and

830
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: it's a big part of why I don't really enjoy

831
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: discussing Lebron MJ unless I'm talking with someone like you, Carson.

832
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. I think that the NBA

833
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: goat debate is on the verge of needing to be retired,

834
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: Like it's just not fun. People don't talk about basketball,

835
00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: they talk about stuff like this. They talk about you know, MJ. Gambling,

836
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: they talk about Lebron's tweets. It's like it's not upon

837
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: basketball conversation anymore. But it is a very interesting one.

838
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Last thing we're gonna touch on today,

839
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: Trey Young came out and said after the Timberwolves game,

840
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: which they narrowly lost, quote ref should be held more

841
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: accountable and apparently implying like money, suspensions, etc. Just like us,

842
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: they shouldn't get we missed it passes. What do you

843
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: think about that, Jason, Well, first of all, if there's

844
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: one player in the league that I never want to

845
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: hear spearheading or conversation about officiating, it's Trey Young. I Look,

846
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: here's the thing. We haven't discussed a lot of Atlanta

847
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: Hawks this year, in large part because they're terrible, but

848
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: also because I hate, hate, hate watching that team. Even

849
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: when I do like, I try to find little things

850
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: that I like. Like I love de Jontay Murray's pull

851
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: up jump shooting game. It just as a basketball player

852
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: and fan. It's something that I think it's super interesting.

853
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: I love how he changes his release to a higher

854
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: release point to help him get it off in traffic.

855
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: And I find DeAndre Hunter to be a fascinating player

856
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: as you're you know, classic kind of Andrew Wiggins archetype,

857
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: a ripped through, simple, offensive, rim pressuring option who can

858
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: guard the other team's best player. There are things that

859
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 1: I find that I can try to as a basketball

860
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: fan watch Atlanta, but I don't watch them very much.

861
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 1: I probably only watched them like twenty times all season

862
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: because I find them. I have a visceral negative reaction

863
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: to Atlanta because of Trey Young and his foul baiting,

864
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: and I can't, I can't stand it. Here's the thing,

865
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: there isn't There is a conversation to have about officiating,

866
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: but it's not associated with fairness. So, for instance, after

867
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: the Sun's game, you have Devin Booker and Monty Williams

868
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: come out and complain about officiating. That was the dumbest

869
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen. Because the Lakers are a team

870
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: that consistently draws foul because they've got two players in particular,

871
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 1: and Anthony Davis and Austin Reeves who are gifted at

872
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: getting players out of position. There's a conversation to have

873
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: about foul grifting, which we will in a second. But

874
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: the reality is, is is there an excellent foul drawing team

875
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: that does not take pull up jump shots almost ever.

876
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: And then the Phoenix Suns, who took forty two pull

877
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: up jump shots in that game compared to just eighteen

878
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: for the Lakers, because that's all they do, which is

879
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: a big part of why they are twenty eight in

880
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: free throw attempts per game this season. And you're going

881
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: to have that loser ass mentality to act as though

882
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: officiating is the reason why you lost, when you lose

883
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: the free throw battle every single game because of the

884
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: type of thought the shots that you like to take.

885
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times these players focus

886
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: on officiating as a matter of fairness, and that to me,

887
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: like I said, is a loser mentality and I'm just

888
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: not interested in having that discussion. The rests call the

889
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: game consistently bad for both teams in every game that

890
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: I've ever seen this year, way too much of these

891
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: non basketball plays resulting in free throws. But it is indiscriminate,

892
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: it is around the entire league. The versation to have

893
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: is there are two there are two things that I

894
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: can't stand about officiating in the modern NBA. One is

895
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: the way that it disrupts the television product simply put,

896
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: it's not fun to watch the flow of the game

897
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: get constantly disrupted as you see guys constantly making these

898
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: unorthodox plays and stopping the flow of the game, the

899
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: up and down nature of basketball, which is part of

900
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: what makes it great. Like I don't know if you

901
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: saw that Golden State Dallas game the other night. It

902
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: was pretty back and forth, up and down there in

903
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 1: that fourth quarter, and it was highly entertaining. That's basketball.

904
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: And so problem number one is the refs are disrupting

905
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: the flow of basketball games and it is bad for

906
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: the television product. And then problem number two is as

907
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: a matter of personality, and some of this is just

908
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: the way that that position draws people that have an

909
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: authority complex. But the reality is is these guys they

910
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: do not understand their role within a basketball game. The

911
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: NBA exists because of the show that the players can

912
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: put on. You need the owners as a structural element

913
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: to make it all work. They're the business guys. You

914
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: need the media because they are what allow they are

915
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: what market the players to the fans, that's important. And

916
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: you need officials because they are what keep the game

917
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: fair and organized. Correct. But all three of those owners

918
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: of media and refs. They need to stay out of

919
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: the center of focus. The players always have to be

920
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: the focus because they drive all the revenue. The only

921
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: reason any of this works or makes any moment or

922
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: any money is because we enjoy watching Steph Curry play basketball.

923
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: And the refs so don't understand that concept, and more

924
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: often than not, they push themselves to the forefront because

925
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: they view themselves on equal footing to the players, and

926
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 1: that is complete crap and until and so they have

927
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: to figure out how to fix the issues with the

928
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: way that the rules are interpreted to keep the flow

929
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: of back basketball games better. But they also have to

930
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: find a way to filter out these dudes. And it's

931
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: not all of them. I would venture to guess that

932
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: at least half of them are well meaning and understand

933
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: their role. But there are way too many celebrity officials

934
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: in the NBA, and that, to me is a problem.

935
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: They cared too much about their personal impact and fame

936
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: on that stage, and it's bad for the game. It's

937
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: always been that way, There's always been that dynamic, right

938
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: Joey Craft or Dick Bavetta Scott fostered out. Egos certainly

939
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: can get in the way, I think that you're absolutely

940
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: right on a lot of this, Like I agree that

941
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 1: the game should be officiating differently, But I think that

942
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: the biggest takeaway for me here is that people have

943
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: turned so much, and I think that this has really

944
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: gotten worse with the legalization of sports betting in more places,

945
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: and therefore sort of the idea that we can jump to,

946
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, people have money on this. Everything is rigged.

947
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: Just the immediate blank aiming of officials for any outcome, right,

948
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: the idea we saw it in the football season. Oh

949
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: my god, that roughing the passer penalty in the Bengals game.

950
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: How horrible. And then obviously the Super Bowl was sealed

951
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: also by a call that some people felt was controversial,

952
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: like and there's just a complete willful ignorance in this.

953
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: Like in that game, Trey Young took as many free

954
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: throws sixteen as he did shots, and a vast majority

955
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: of those are elicited from non basketball plays flailing just

956
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: throwing up shots hoping he gets that little bit of

957
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: contact on the hip. He is the inventor, effectively of Okay,

958
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get this guy in jail out

959
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: of the pick and roll. He's on my back right,

960
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: he's stuck there and I'm gonna jump back into him,

961
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: and that is, you know, at times, called a foul.

962
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: They've tried to change rules because of Trey Young's exploitation.

963
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: So it's just completely unaware the Sun's game. You're absolutely right.

964
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: They've been out shot by a dozen or more free

965
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: throws in four of their last six games, and it's

966
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 1: because they're dead last and restricted area of field goals.

967
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: And the Warriors just won a title in which they

968
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: were twenty six and free throw attempts because they're a

969
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: pull up jump shooting team like the Suns. The notion

970
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: that you have to win the free throw battle to

971
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: win the game is completely false. You win basketball games

972
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: in different ways. The Suns aren't getting screwed. It's not

973
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: their play style. They're not physical, and by the way,

974
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: they're the fourth most foul pro team in the league.

975
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: And by the way, the Lakers, as you said, are

976
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: one of the most prolific teams at drawing free throws

977
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: because they're big, they're physical, and they do have those

978
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: guys who can get people out of position and elicit

979
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: those fouls. So it's just very frustrating me. I mean,

980
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: Trey Young saying something actually makes my blood boiled, because

981
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: it's like, buddy, you are the problem, like you are

982
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: the embodiment Luca insinuating that the refs are paid. It's

983
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: like Lucas also in that top tier of Let me

984
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: manipulate the refs, let me draw this questionable foul that

985
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: is called by the books right now, but isn't good

986
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: for basketball, not a basketball play. It's very frustrating, and

987
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: I think that we need to have a real referendum

988
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: here on. Hey guys, this isn't the two thousand and

989
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: two Western Conference finals, right like, this is not well

990
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: that might you know, that might be a legitimate. It's

991
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: just bad rules and an honest bad call every once

992
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: in a while. But you can't threaten that with, you know,

993
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: sending these guys to the gallows, Like that's that's absurd.

994
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 1: You don't get punished for messing up honestly as a player.

995
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: Beyond the result. Reps are doing their best. It's just

996
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 1: I agree with you. There's bad rules, and Trey Young

997
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: is an exploitter of those bad rules. The whole thing

998
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 1: is just one giant, intellectually dishonest debate because I'm so

999
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that, Like you, that's just

1000
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: one part of the game of basketball. I literally talked

1001
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: about the center of last show that after Warriors Mavericks,

1002
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: like there are usually at least a half dozen things

1003
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: that go horribly wrong in a basketball game, and sometimes

1004
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: all six of them go against you. You know, like

1005
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: there was what was that Rockets Warriors game that won

1006
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when Katie was still there,

1007
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: when he stepped like four feet out of bound on

1008
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,479
Speaker 1: the baseline and the reft. It seems like like that's

1009
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: just that to me, is overcoming adversity. It's no different

1010
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: than you guys in your life. Over the course of

1011
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: the next month, you're gonna have two or three hand

1012
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: grenades lobbed into your life. Like that's just the reality.

1013
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna be they're gonna be crawling going through

1014
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: your day, and you're gonna get a phone call and

1015
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: it's gonna be something really shitty and you're gonna have

1016
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: to find a way to like deal with that as

1017
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: you go through the rest of your day. And like

1018
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 1: this idea that it's gonna be this perfectly fair static

1019
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: environment is so silly to me. I saw that Lakers

1020
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: stat going around the other yesterday where it was like,

1021
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: the Lakers have by far the biggest free throw differential

1022
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: in the league this year, and it's like basic research.

1023
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,439
Speaker 1: They're the only team in the league that is great

1024
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: at not fouling and drawing fouls. The second best free

1025
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: throw differential team in the league was the Miami Heat,

1026
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: who is seventeenth in getting to the foul line. It's

1027
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: just it just so happens that that they're one. They're

1028
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: that the one team that they're the one team that

1029
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: does both well, and people will be like, oh, but

1030
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: the Lakers are terrible. Why would they suddenly be good

1031
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: at that? It means nothing to be good at drawing

1032
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: fouls and to be good at def ending without fouling.

1033
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: You can do those things and also suck, you know how.

1034
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: I know that was the Lakers all year. They were

1035
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: a terrible defensive team, in large part because Anthony Davis

1036
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: was out. They were a terrible defensive team who also

1037
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: didn't foul. That's possible, right, Like, it's just there's there's

1038
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: so many moving parts in basketball games, and it's just again,

1039
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: I go back to that loser mentality thing, like no

1040
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: one cares about your specific struggles because they've got their

1041
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: own struggles, Like and no one cares that you don't

1042
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 1: have DeAndre Ayton for a big game because they're big.

1043
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: Guy's been out for a long time. Like everyone's dealing

1044
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: with diversity in this season. And for you to like

1045
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: just paint yourself as the victim that the refs are

1046
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: coming after you, that's not the type of mentality that's

1047
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: gonna push you over the top in a two two

1048
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: series against the you know, against the Clippers in the

1049
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,720
Speaker 1: first round. If you feel like Game four was stolen

1050
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: from you by the refs, ask the Clippers what they'll

1051
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: they'll think. They'll be like Game fives on Wednesday, and

1052
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to win, like like, no one cares.

1053
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: And so it's a loser mentality. That's why I think

1054
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 1: it's important to separate that from the issue with officiating.

1055
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: But we've already gone too long today, So we're gonna

1056
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna call it today, all right, guys. That is

1057
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: all we have for today. The plan as of right now,

1058
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: we are going I'm gonna be recording a video late

1059
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: tonight after all of the games that will be out

1060
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: bright and early on Saturday morning, and then we'll have

1061
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 1: another show on Sunday morning covering Saturday nights games, and

1062
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Speaker 1: then we're going late on Monday night. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: what specific matchup that is, but we're breaking down a

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Speaker 1: game late on Monday night. So plenty of shows over

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Speaker 1: the course of the rest of this weekend and going

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Speaker 1: through Monday. As always, I sincerely appreciate your guys supports.

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Speaker 1: Chat out to Carson for giving us the time, and

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Speaker 1: we will see you tomorrow morning. The volume