WEBVTT - Valuing Time with Laura Vanderkam #090 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:07.000 Matt and today we're talking about valuing time with Laura Vanderkamp. 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.800 That's right, Joel. Today we are talking about time, and 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:29.880 you know, this is a topic that we've talked about 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.479 before with Grant Sabatier. But you know what is interesting 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.640 is that time and money they share a lot of 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.599 similar characteristics, right, a lot of similar properties, And so 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:40.960 I'm excited to dive into that with our guest today, 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.680 Laura here in a few minutes. Yeah, she's a complete 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.800 expert and just really interesting all around person to talk to. 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.239 So yeah, that should be a really fun conversation real quick. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.720 Today on the show, we're drinking a beer called Infinity 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.920 Bloom by New Grass Brewing Company, And Matt, your mother 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:56.960 in law picked this up for us, right, that's pretty sweet. Yeah. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.000 This is out of Shelby, North Carolina. This is her 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.360 hometown where she grew and Kate, my wife, she actually 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.320 grew up there for a few years as well. So 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.360 you know what's so cool is that all these small towns, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.280 they all have their their own brewery now, so you 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:12.119 can find amazing craft beer pretty much anywhere, which is awesome. Yeah, 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.160 I love that you can find great craft breweries in 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.840 small towns like all across the United States. Now used 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.760 to be like reserve for major cities, and that's just 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.280 not the case anymore. So there's are a change in Yeah, 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.600 tiny craft breweries are where it's at all right, So 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.760 let's go ahead and introduce our guest for today, Laura Vandercam. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.600 She helps people spend more time on what matters and 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.720 less on what doesn't matter. She is the author of 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.440 several time management and productivity books, including Juliet's School of Possibilities, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.880 Off the Clock, I Know how she does it, What 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:43.279 the most successful people do Before Breakfast and a hundred 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.880 and sixty eight hours. That's a lot of books. She's prolific. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.400 She is the host of the podcast Before Breakfast and 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.320 the co host with Sarah hart Unger, of the podcast 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.000 Best of Both Worlds. And she lives outside Philly with 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.400 her husband and four children. That's also a lot of 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.640 children and blah over at Laura Vanderkam dot com. Laura 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.360 truly is a time management expert and we're excited to 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.280 have her on the show. So Laura, welcome to the show. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.480 Thank you so much for having me. All right, We're 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.079 so glad to have you, Laura. This is gonna be 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.120 a really fun conversation. And as you know, Matt and 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.240 I drink a craft beer every week on our show, 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.200 and for us, it's this realization that, you know, we 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:24.400 are very intentional about how we spend and save our money, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.000 but we do realize that it's important to to use 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.560 our money on things that we enjoy in the here 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.760 and now today too, and so craft beer kind of 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.040 reflects that for us, and we're wondering, like, what's your 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.560 craft beer? In particular in relation to how you use 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.480 your time, where do you use your time potentially like 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.840 ineffectively that people might be surprised that you splurage on 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.480 your time in that way. Yeah, I love the comparison 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.720 between time and money and the sense that we we 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.679 aren't always just going to try and save a few 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.960 minutes here and there, like sometimes it's worth spending a 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.440 ton of time on stuff that you really enjoy. I 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.280 actually sing in a choir and among the times large 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.800 as I am making in this week, which is a 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.000 little bit ridiculous in terms of the sheer number of 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:09.560 like kids sports and school activities, and work activities and 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.600 other such things that have to happen. But I'm um 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.079 singing with my choir. We're doing a Maller's second Symphony. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:16.880 We're singing with an orchestra out in New Jersey, so 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.960 I've been going out there for rehearsals. But you know, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:21.760 singing with the choir takes a ton of time, but 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.680 it's really fun, and so it's not the sort of 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.640 thing like, oh, well, could I spend less time on 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.320 this somehow a little? Why on earth would I want to? 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.120 So yeah, I would say that that singing is is 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.600 my equivalent of craft beer. Joel loves to drink the beer, 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.160 but you do not want to hear him singing. Well, 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.200 the reason I'm not having a beer with you guys, 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.240 I could pretend, I guess for purposes of the podcast, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.880 since no one can see me, but I'm I'm singing tonight, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.240 And in general, if I drink before I sing, it's 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.800 general it's just a disaster. Well cool, So let's go 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:52.800 ahead and dive into time a little bit now. So 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.400 you're obviously really interest in time, and we wanted to 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.480 know before we kind of start talking about your book, 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.520 is how did that begin like, how did your fascination 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.960 with time begin. Was there a pivotable moment that sort 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.720 of shifted how you view time and sort of it's 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.960 finite nature, or was it always something that you were 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.240 aware of? As I look back on my life, I've 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.080 always been interested in productivity. I was probably that nerdy 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.040 kid in school who was planning out her week and 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.000 had it, you know, when the tests were going to happen, 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:19.840 all written in ahead of the time that they were 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.480 actually happening, which I know it makes me sound like 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.360 all kinds of fun, but it kind of became more 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.960 of an intense personal interest when I became a parent 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.800 for the first time twelve years ago, when my oldest 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.440 child was born. And you know, anyone who's been through 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.880 this transition, any of your listeners, know that it does 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:40.480 change how you spend your time. Not only that the 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.920 children themselves need time and attention, but it's more broader 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:45.840 question of like am I spending my time in the 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.560 ways that I wish to? Am I still, you know, 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.680 maintaining time for all the other things I want to do. 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.440 If my spending enough time with my kid, you're accountable 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.560 for it in a way that you might just not 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.200 be if you don't have intense personal responsibilities. And so 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.760 I began sort of studying how other people were spending 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.800 their time to make the most of their lives, both 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.160 professionally and personally, and over time I began writing about that, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.440 and that's where my time management books have come from. Okay, 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.799 speaking of time management books, you recently released a book 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.920 called Juliette School of Possibilities and I read it in 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:20.680 I think one and a half sitting, so I like 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.240 almost and I had to finish it quickly. Um the 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:24.920 quick read for sure next night. But yeah, it's a 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.880 super super quick read. But I love to the fact 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.000 that this it's a story. It's not like do these 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.320 ten things, here's all these tips and how to manage 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.719 your time better. But it's this really great story that 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.039 kind of by us mosis. As you read it, you 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.560 accumulate some of these tips on how to manage your 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.760 time better. And so the main character in the book 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.719 is Riley, and she's someone who just reminds me of 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.159 a lot of people I see around me in daily life, 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.039 right like constantly connected, so consumed with tasks that she 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.960 doesn't have the time for work and relational opportunities. And 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.560 so do you think of Riley, does she you represent 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.160 to you kind of mainstream modern culture and how we 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.880 can't turn it off? Oh, definitely. I mean I wanted 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:09.640 Riley to be a character that a lot of people 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.520 could see themselves in. And this is always the thing 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.039 with a fable and the books out there, they're in 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.680 the genre of same business fables. The whole hope is 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.640 that you will see yourself in the main character, and 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.200 in the course of the main character's journey will also 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.080 learn things that you can put into place in your 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.840 own life. And so, yeah, Riley's just a wreck. Um, 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:31.760 so hopefully people aren't quite as much a wreck as her, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.480 but her her personal life is falling apart. That might 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.440 be okay if her career was going great, but it 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.120 also is not going great because she can't figure out 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.359 what is important for her to spend her time on. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.279 And in the past, she always got ahead by just 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.840 doing everything, you know, being the person who could get 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.200 it all done. But once you move into management it 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.359 becomes a lot more difficult. You can't just do everything. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.000 You have to think about what is most important for 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:55.880 you to be doing, and there may not be a 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:57.880 right answer, but that's kind of a risk you have 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.520 to take, and she just has completely no ability to 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.080 do this. So she's given an ultimatum by her company 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.039 that she's got thirty days to turn things around or 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.640 she's out. And of course of this, she winds up 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.960 at a retreat at a rather strange sounding place called 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:16.000 Juliette School of Possibilities, where she meets this mentor figure, Juliette, 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:19.559 who shows her different visions for her life. It actually 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.200 reminds me a little bit of the Double Worst Product, uh, 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.440 sort of that character, the sort of NonStop it's like 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.160 a cross between that and like a Christmas Carol sort of. 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.080 So I can only imagine that in the middle of 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.200 that type of lifestyle that that it can be hard 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.440 for you to see yourself needing to make a change. 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.360 So what questions can we ask ourselves to determine if 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.200 we are struggling with some of those same things as 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.360 Riley and even just recognize that need for change, Like, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.000 how do we self examine to see if we're in 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.200 a place where we need to do that? Yeah, well, 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:48.840 partly it is about how you feel. I mean, if 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.160 you feel like life is in a crisis, then you 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.360 feel like you probably need to make a change. But 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.560 what I often tell people is you really want to 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.920 see where your time is going, because sometimes people have 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.080 made crises that aren't actually there. Uh this is this 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.200 is something I see a lot that people tell themselves 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.040 all sorts of stories like I'm I'm failing in every 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.360 which direction, and then they track their time and realize, hey, 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.600 I'm actually doing a lot of really cool stuff. It's 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.360 not nearly as bad as I thought it was. But 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.080 if it is bad, then we should know. So I 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.400 always have people track their time. I mean a couple 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.800 of days is good, ideally a week and look at 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.679 it and say, well, how does this time match up 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.400 with my priorities in life? Because you know, I'm sure 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.800 this this happens all the time. Life gets busy, time 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:32.719 keeps passing, whether we think about how we're spending it 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.079 or not. People say with a straight face like, oh, 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.320 you know, being healthy, being physically fit, it's such a 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:39.760 priority for me, and then you look at their time 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:45.080 and guess what's not happening so or even just you know, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.920 my relationship with my spouse would be a priority. But 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.960 like between the kids and the job, everything else takes takes, uh, 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:53.839 you know, first DIBs at the time, and so it's 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.280 good to see these things like as it pertains to money. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.200 What that sounds a lot like is tracking or spending, right, 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:00.880 And so obviously we talk about money all the time 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:02.880 on the show. And if you don't know where your 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.200 money is going, then how can you make changes To 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.720 begin that self examination sort of process, you need to know, yeah, 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:10.640 like you said, where your hours are going, where your 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.440 minutes are going. In the same way that if you're 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.280 trying to turn your finances around, you need to know 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.480 what you're actually spending your money on. And like like 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.040 you said, you might say that exercise is important, or 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.800 your health is important. Someone that's putting a budget together 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:23.920 might say, oh, it's important for me to save. But 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:25.960 if in reality you look at your spending and instead 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.720 all your money is going out to the restaurants, well, 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.719 you know your actual spending. Your behavior is not reflecting 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.560 the reality of it. So how do you actually suggest 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.000 the folks to track her time? So I track my 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.920 time on these weekly spreadsheets. Again, I'm sure makes me 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.320 sound like a lot of fun, but it gets worse. 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.040 I've been doing this for four years now, which nobody 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.200 else needs to do. But I have tracked my time 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.880 for four straight years. These weekly spreadsheets have the days 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.240 of the week across the top, so Monday through Sunday 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.600 half hour blocks down the left hand side, going five 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.120 am to four thirty am, So it is a three 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.679 thirty six self spreadsheet representing a hundred sixty eight hour 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.480 a week. I just write down what I'm doing, and 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.760 I'm not constantly checking in. I probably check in like 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.880 three times a day, and I write down what I've 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.360 done since the last time I checked in. The goal 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.480 is not to be perfect, like I don't write down, 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.000 you know, every time I got up and got a 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.920 glass of water or anything like that. I am trying 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.040 to get broadly the outlines of my life because even 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.040 if it's not perfect, you can see so much from 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.320 from where the time truly goes. And you mentioned some 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.400 of the mismatches people have in terms of, you know, 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.000 how they're spending their money. They're probably huge blind spots 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:35.960 people have in terms of how they're spending their money, 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.000 Like I had no idea I was spending that amount 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.920 on on X and and people do that with time 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:46.439 as well. You know, we are often lead to believe 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.920 that we spend more time working than we actually do. 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.640 There's some some funny data about this. But work tends 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.880 to be structured, and it tends to involve sort of 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.960 commitments to other people, and so it kind of expands 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.080 in our brain, even if the members themselves are not 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.160 as big as we are imagining. People have a tendency 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.960 to remember their longest days in their longest weeks as typical, 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.200 and so, you know, you learn all kinds of interesting stuff. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.840 So what are some of the common culprits then for 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.120 someone filling out a time log where they're likely to 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.200 see that they're wasting time, that they're just not using 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.120 your time effectively. Yeah, well, there's a couple of spots 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:22.920 that tend to happen to lots of people. You know, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.360 what do you do at night before bed? A lot 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.520 of people, it is puttering around the house. It's being 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.200 on social media. It's watching TV, but not with any 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.199 real purpose. If you've saved a favorite show to watch 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.040 in the evening after your kids go to bed, that's great, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.440 But for many people that's not actually what's happening. It's 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.160 sort of just one thing after the flipping around you know, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.560 and you're tired. You're you're tired, and you you don't 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.120 know what you want to do, and so you do 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.559 whatever is easiest. And I'm not saying you're gonna go 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.559 run a marathon at that time. But let's say you've 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.920 been telling yourself, I'd really like to read and I'd 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.120 really like to connect with my spouse. Well, guess what, 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.960 here's some time that you've been clicking around two shows 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.400 you do not care about that you could read a 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.840 book and you could connect with your spouse, so that 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.160 you know, it's that sort of thing. Another thing I 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.360 see a lot of on weekends. I've been a prefaces 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.640 by saying nobody needs to plan every second of a 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.439 weekend like that. That's not what I'm saying. But if 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.120 we don't think about how we want to use this 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.440 block of potential family and leisure time, it's going to 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.199 get away from you in doing things that you don't 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.800 actually care about. So being being a little bit intentional 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.280 about it, you can vastly increase the chances that you 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.079 spend this time on things that are meaningful or important 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.280 for you or the people you care about. I want 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:37.840 to swing back to the book for a second, now 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.120 you mentioned how Juliet, the character there was able to 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.079 show Riley to possible futures that she had. Yeah, it 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.200 totally made me think of Charles Dickens at Christmas Stories 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:47.480 for sure when I was reading that part of it. 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.960 But like, how does thinking ahead like that? Like what 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.880 kind of impact does that how on you as a 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.680 person when it comes to goal setting? Why is that 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.080 so important? And what do you think is most important 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.120 to focus on or to look for when you are 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.320 looking ahead, Like what aspects of your life? Yeah, well 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.319 I would I'm not disappointed to be compared to a 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.120 Christmas Caroll. I mean, that's a wonderful book, one of 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:12.440 my favorites. So Juliet shows Riley to potential future visions 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.959 for her life, and one is if she continues as 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.760 everything is going now, always going after whatever seems brightest 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.640 and most blinking in front of her, and not making 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.079 time for the important things, And it's basically that life 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.040 has just kind of slips away from her, that she's 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.320 worked so hard for so many years and has no 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:32.080 impact that she can actually point to. The other future 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.720 is is far more positive when she has made time 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.360 professionally for the things that matter to her for doing 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.440 the big projects, the important, long reaching things that she 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.160 keeps saying she wants to do, but she just never 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.520 makes time for amid all the emails and such. And 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.760 personally too that when she actually really invests time in 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.600 the relationships that she says matter to her, both her 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.600 friendships and and potential you know, spouse and children as well. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.000 So it's a very different future. And the future she's 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.680 seeing in that second more positive vision, it's at a 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.960 dinner given in her honor twenty five years in the future. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.160 And I think this is actually a good practical idea 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.680 for people to think about that if you're trying to identify, like, 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.640 what are my long term priorities, what are the things 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.480 that matter to me? What should I be spending my 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.840 time on, picture yourself maybe at a dinner given in 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:20.760 your honor. Let's say, you know, ten years in the future. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.320 We don't have to go twenty five and my my 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.320 heroin is very young, so she can go twenty five 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.280 years in the future. Many of us would would not 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:27.840 be wanting to, you know, be in the midst of 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.800 all this stuff in twenty five years. But um, so 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:31.960 let's say ten years from now, a dinner, people are 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.480 getting up to give toasts about the impact you have 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.600 had on them personally and on the larger world. What 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.000 would they be saying? You could go ahead and write 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.200 those toasts now if you wanted. And by thinking about 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.000 what those toasts would be, you start to say like, oh, well, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.040 these are the things I could really see myself doing, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.440 Like this is the change I'd like to bring to 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.240 the world, This is how I'd like other people to 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.160 think of me. Now let me take this. Let me 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.000 then say, what are some ways I can start spending 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.120 my time so that I am making steps towards these 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.320 this future. Yeah, And interestingly, in in the book, I 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.040 feel like, you know, Riley is so consumed with her 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:13.280 inbox right, her her emails piling up. And I found 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.880 myself certainly in that situation to where that concept of 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.320 inbox zero, where it's like trying to get everything done 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.480 and reply to everyone, feels like that's maybe the best 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.000 way for me to attack things. But then I found 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.240 myself when I am in that mind frame not actually 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.200 doing the things that matter at my work. And and 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.200 really I think probably a lot of us find ourselves 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:37.280 in that situation where we think replying to emails becomes 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.440 the most essential part of our job, and we're missing 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.920 out on some of the more important aspects of what 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.920 we should be doing. So like, how, in particular do 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.440 you think people should consider managing their email inbox because 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.920 that's such an important part of how we work right now. Yeah, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.200 I mean, the key thing to remember is that email 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.440 expands to fill all available space. So if there is 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.200 anything you want to do other than email, you have 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.400 to make sure you carve out the time for that 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.920 and let email fit around that. As opposed to saying, well, 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.680 I'll get to those other things as soon as I'm 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.320 caught up with email, because you will never be caught 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.080 up with email. I mean, people who are trying to 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.520 get down to inbox zero, as they're sending responses to 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.520 get themselves down, people respond to that and so it 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.920 comes right back in and and then you're you're stuck. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.760 You're back up from where you were. You know, it's 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.640 it's impossible to stay there, and so it will take 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.080 any time you give it. You have to choose to 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.560 spend less time on it. And I'm gonna say, like 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.280 email is a wonderful tool. Email, I mean, that's how 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.080 we've communicated until we've had this this podcast recording. I 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.200 have on my to do list today to send an 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.600 email to somebody that's gonna be a well crafted, thought 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.240 through thing that I want her to, you know, talk 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.440 to me about something like that's an important email. You know, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.640 that's something that I'm choosing to spend time on. An 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.720 email is a good vehicle for it to happen. But 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.480 a lot of the stuff that comes in a stuff 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.520 you didn't seek out. It's the stuff expectations that are 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.800 are there, but you didn't ask for them, Like you 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.560 didn't necessarily actively choose to bring these into your lives. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.480 So I think you have to, you know, recognize that 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.320 it may not always be the most important thing to do. 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.200 I know this is very hard um to put email 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.840 off when it is they're kind of looking at you like, 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.280 this is undone stuff you have to get to, but 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.520 it will still be there and still be undone later 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.320 in the day, whereas your big projects may just not 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:21.919 get done if you do that. So once when I 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.800 was I was deep in the edits on Juliet uh 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.680 and I was like, I gotta get through this. I 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.760 I know I could really make progress today and I'm like, 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.240 the emails are stacking up, including some from people that 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.040 I would generally respond to very quickly or you know, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.320 offers of speeches. You know, I'd like to say to 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.240 my client, like, yes, of course I can take that 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.080 on for you. But I'm like, it will be there 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.120 this afternoon. They will still love me if I respond 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.320 at six pm. I can carve out eight to one 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.280 or two to do this and to give my best 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.320 to this project that actually is my top priority right now. 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.960 And so I did, and you know, everyone still deals 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.520 with me. You know, nobody's said like I will never 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.439 talk with you again because you responded to my email 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.080 in twenty four hours as opposed to Yeah, I think 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.520 email is a classic case of you know, something that's 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.240 urgent versus something that's important, right, And you actually set 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.439 a line that I think he actually was in the book, right, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:15.040 like the email will still be there, it will still 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.919 be undone. Yeah, that's all. They recognize that from one 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.120 of the characters in the book. But something else that's 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.240 awesome about the book as well, as you mentioned your 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.479 your time log that you have on your computer in Excel, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.639 but in the back of the book you actually have 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.880 some tools there for folks to actually start tracking their time. 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.600 You've got some great questions there for folks to talk 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.280 about it in small groups or with their friends, and 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.199 so you totally dive into the more practical ways that 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.959 folks can start thinking about what it is that they 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.040 want to focus on. Like you mentioned the speeches like that, 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.680 if you can actually think through the speeches that folks 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.359 will be giving you, you know, hopefully at the towards 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.600 the end of your life Horenton fifteen years to think 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.520 through those things. I mean, that's essentially what you have 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.399 listed out in the back. You have tools there to 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:59.760 encourage the reader to think about what is truly important. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.000 And I find that pertains so well to money as well, 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.359 because we talk about the why behind our money a lot, 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.080 which is basically like, what is our driving force that 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:09.879 is causing us to work hard and to want to 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:11.879 earn money. It's not the love of money. It's not 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.960 that we are trying to amass riches to do who 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.400 knows what right. It's not that it's that there are 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.879 certain specific things that I want to be able to 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:21.840 do with this with my kids, or I would love 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:23.520 to be able to spend this time with my spouse, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.840 not working, but instead with them. So that means say, 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.960 investing that money now versus versus spending it. And so yeah, 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.600 I love that you've got some of those tools there 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:35.680 in the back of your book. It's fantastic. We would 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.120 recommend for everyone to check that out. So after the break, 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.040 we're gonna talk more about being efficient at work as 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:52.440 well as being more intentional in your personal life. Are 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.440 we're back with Laura vander Camp. We're talking about valuing 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.679 our time and Laura, let's talk about work here for 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.879 a second. Um, you mentioned tackling your toughest work in 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.919 the first hours of your work day. Why do you 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.199 think that's so important? Well, first, because people tend to 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:11.760 have more energy. Then, there have been studies looking at 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.360 people's reported energy levels through the day and the majority 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.080 of people are most likely to be in a high 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:19.639 energy mood around eight o'clock in the morning. It's when 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:21.720 we've had that first cup of coffee and you feel 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.080 like you can take on the world. Two pm, you 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:25.720 do not feel like you can take on the world. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.560 That's when things start to fall apart. Uh, So you 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.439 know something that could have taken you an hour at 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.320 eight am is going to take you two hours at 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.200 at two pm. As you keep getting distracted and getting 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.439 alerts from Facebook on your phone, you're like, oh, let 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.560 me go check that out, and next thing you know, 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.800 it's it's like four pm and you haven't gotten through 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:43.960 what you said you were going to do in the afternoon. 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:48.320 So mornings we tend to have more focus most people, 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.360 in some real night owls, but most people. It also 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.320 it gives you a chance to do things before the 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:56.639 day gets away from you. Because in a lot of 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.840 people's jobs, stuff will come in. I mean that's the 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:00.480 nature of it. Things will come in that you'll have 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.520 to deal with, or in your personal life, things will 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.719 come in that you have to deal with. Whereas if 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.160 you start with whatever is most important, then you most 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.159 likely will have done it by the time the emergencies arise. 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.159 Or if the emergencies arise first thing in the morning, 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.360 well there's time later in the day to still get 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.600 to it. Whereas if you leave it till later in 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.160 the day, probably that time is going to get taken 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:22.679 away from you or you're gonna be too tired to 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.479 get to it. Productivity is all about self knowledge and 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.760 every time I say that bit about, you know, do 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:29.840 your important work first thing in the morning, somebody raises 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:31.640 their hands and I'm a night all. I'm like, okay, 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.640 you're a night all. Great, that works for you. You 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.040 do you and everybody else might be interested to know 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.240 that most people have more energy first thing in the morning. So, 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.560 speaking of stretching your days, Laura, you've discussed the importance 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.880 of taking time to exercise during the work day, how 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.280 do you suggest to folks to start incorporating exercise without 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.680 ghosting their coworkers or being sort of like that weird 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.639 sweaty person in the ddle of the day. You know, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.080 like Joel, he bikes to work every day. You show 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.240 up kind of sweaty and kind of gross. Gross, but 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:04.040 he is that weird sweaty person at he's got that. 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.760 But how do you suggest the folks to work that in? 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:11.040 I mean, the first thing to recognize is that not 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.720 all exercise needs to leave you hot and sweaty, and 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:15.760 it doesn't have to take an hour either. So if 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.600 you would like to introduce more physical activity into your 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.040 work day, the easiest thing is to just go for 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.760 short walks. Most people take ten to fifteen minute breaks 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.760 here and there anyway, just use that in a intentional way, 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:30.720 go outside, get some fresh air. You can even think 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:32.800 of it as like a smoke break without the cigarettes, 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.959 Like you're going outside walking around, just don't light up, 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:37.919 and you're all good, like you've done something healthy instead 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.320 of something unhealthy. You know, if you've got a lunch break, 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:43.800 like if it's generally understood that people in your office 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.080 can can take a break, figure out if you could 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.360 go out a slightly longer walk some days during that, 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:51.320 or you know, enlist a colleague. You could even turn 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.320 one on one meetings into walking meetings. That's a really 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:57.560 great way to even have better conversations. You know, it's 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.000 hard to have an intense conversation across us a conference 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.119 board room with someone that you're really trying to convey 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.199 that you you like them personally. You're just you know, 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:07.960 have some difficult things to say, whereas walking around you 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.880 might be able to pull that off. So I definitely 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.200 recommend that. I remember that being one of Steve jobs 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.280 classic things in his biography was that he would constantly 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.160 go on walks with folks anytime they had some big 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.040 discussions to that needed to be to be done. But 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.160 you know, even if you are, you know, you could 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:25.480 go to the gym. I mean people get very concerned 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:27.320 about like what people think. But if your work is 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.679 getting done and your manager doesn't mind, like, then who cares? Right, 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.359 Just go do it and come back and you'll probably 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:35.359 have enough energy if you go over lunch and come 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.600 back at one pm to actually get through the afternoon 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.480 as opposed to suffering from that two pm slump that 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:42.160 people who have stayed at their desk and like look 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.560 at me, I'm looking I'm working through lunch, I'm all productive, 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.200 and then two pm it's just it's all gone. Yeah, 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:48.520 I was gonna say two pm. S He was like 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:50.720 kind of that perfect time of the day to maybe, 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:53.280 if nothing else, just dropped down and do like twenty 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.080 push ups, you know, just because that can be instead 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:58.360 of getting that extra cup of coffee or just kind 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.280 of completely zoning out in in Facebook or social media 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:04.600 or something like that, going down uh internet rabbit hole. 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.000 Doing some sort of physical activity can kind of help 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.800 elevate you to take on those last couple hours of 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.840 work that you need to get done that day. Right, Yeah, definitely, Um, 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.720 exercise I always say makes time like it doesn't take time. 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:20.800 It makes time because your energy levels will go up 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.800 high enough that you can actually get stuff done. Whereas 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.119 if you're telling yourself, you know, I don't need breaks, 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:28.160 I'm not the kind of person who needs breaks, Well 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:30.320 you do, but your brain will take a fake one. 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:32.760 It just won't be very productive. And that's what that's 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:35.240 what happens when people lose, you know, thirty minutes into Twitter. 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:37.760 All right, So let's talk about meetings because meetings are 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:40.880 one of these things that everyone's got a thought about them, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.680 and most of us think that we're in too many meetings. 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.640 They seem to kind of take over a traditional work 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.800 day and sometimes, just just like email, meetings can be 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.919 that time suck where we feel like we haven't actually 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:55.520 been able to attend to the actual things that we 0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.919 need to do in our daily job. So you specifically 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:01.320 talked recently in a podcast episode about not wasting time 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:04.360 meetings and how we use those tools poorly. So how 0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:08.120 can we make meetings more effective in our work day? 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.479 And especially like let's say we're an employee and our 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.359 boss is the one who's making us attend these meetings 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:15.000 that kind of stink, like is there any way that 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.760 we can gently nudge to kind of shake things up. Yeah, 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:20.159 I mean there's there's all sorts of things you can do. 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.040 One is that sometimes your boss just isn't aware of 0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:25.440 how many meetings you're in. This can happen all the time. 0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.080 Everyone's in their own little world. Like very rarely are 0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:30.680 people like trying to make life miserable for other people. 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:32.800 It tends to be more that they just haven't noticed. 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.520 So it might help to say, well, look, you know, 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:39.280 I am booked into twenty five hours a week of 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:41.600 meetings that are recurring. Like they don't even have to 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:43.760 earn their place on my calendar. They just keep showing 0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.119 up there and and is this what you would like 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:47.720 me to be spending my time doing. Could we go 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:50.199 through this list and see, you know, could any of 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.200 these be less frequent, Could they involve fewer people? Could 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:57.240 they not happen? I don't know. Like these are all 0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:01.200 ideas that that are worth looking at. If if you 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:03.800 are going to have a meeting, the key thing to 0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:07.399 recognize is that something should change in the world as 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:10.679 a result of this meeting taking place, and that meeting 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:15.560 should require the participation of everyone who is there for 0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:18.280 every minute that they are there, and that they are 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:20.639 all there to change the thing in the world, like 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:22.520 they are necessary for this thing that needs to change, 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.840 and if it can't meet that standard, it probably doesn't 0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:28.840 have to happen or be that long or involve that 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:32.240 many people. You know, people invite folks to meetings because 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:34.600 it seems nice. It's like, you know, I'm trying to 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:37.280 get over the traumas of the middle school cafeteria, and 0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:39.679 so I'll just invite everyone to come to my meeting. 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:44.000 But that's that's not actually helpful um or you know, 0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.040 trying to keep your boss in the loop. And the 0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:48.879 person doesn't have anything they're doing at the time, so 0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:50.560 they come and everyone's happy because they're there, but it's 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:52.399 still that wasn't quite what we needed, you know, in 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.720 order for this thing to happen. So just be very 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.200 careful that every minute of the meeting is accounted for 0:26:57.480 --> 0:26:59.640 and that everyone who's there needs to be there. Let's 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:02.560 shift you is how to being intentional in our personal lives? 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:04.840 How can we do a better job when it comes 0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.199 to our family and our personal time goals? Do you 0:27:07.240 --> 0:27:10.080 have some specific strategies that you would recommend to folks. Well, 0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:12.320 I think the word you just use their intentional is 0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.359 the most important one, because a lot of people aren't 0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:19.639 intentional about their family or leisure time. And it's the 0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:21.720 rare person who would show up at work at you know, 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:23.639 eight in the morning and have no idea what they 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:25.879 were gonna do with the entire day like that. They 0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:28.760 hadn't thought through it. Just something will happen. It'll will 0:27:28.800 --> 0:27:31.320 eventually be at five o'clock and I'll leave like that. 0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.080 That's not how people usually approach work, But people approach 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:36.040 their home life like that all the time and be like, well, 0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:37.680 I get home at five thirty and I guess I'll 0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:40.199 go to bed at eleven thirty. Something will happen in there. 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:43.880 I don't know, It's six hours and it's just not 0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:46.440 mindful at all. And again I'm not saying you have 0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:48.399 to plan every you know, in fifteen minute chunks, like 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:50.560 your work there, or send outlook invites for dinner or 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:53.760 anything ridiculous like that, but you might want to at 0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:56.119 least put some intention into it, Like wouldn't it be 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:59.240 fun if the kids and I read this book tonight 0:27:59.240 --> 0:28:01.560 that I love from my childhood, and maybe they will 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:04.879 like to that's something that's an intention, Or let's go 0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:07.159 for a walk after dinner as a family, or it 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:08.879 looks like it's light a little bit later, you know, 0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:11.320 maybe we could hit the playground before dinner. And you know, 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:12.879 if we had a snack what I got home, like, 0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:14.480 we could do that and have a slightly later dinner 0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:18.159 or something. But you're thinking it through vastly increases the 0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:20.960 chances that this time has spent. Well, that's great, And 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:22.560 and do you have any thoughts then as far as 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:25.399 like overall planning, right, so we're talking about the daily 0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:27.840 sort of particulars. I love how what just what you said, 0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:29.560 even just then, how there are you know, there's six 0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:32.439 hours between getting home from work and when you go 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:34.880 to bed perhaps and even you just saying that made 0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:36.760 me think, holy crap, six hours, Like there are six 0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:39.640 hours like that I'm potentially burning. From a sort of 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.200 macro level, from like a big picture, how would you 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:44.840 recommend the folks to think through what they want to 0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:46.640 want their weeks and what their months and year to 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:50.000 look like? Well, the year, um one exercise I have 0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:52.440 people do, both professionally and personally sort of think at 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:54.200 the end of the year to the end of the 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:56.640 upcoming year, what would you like to say you have done? 0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:59.240 Like so, on the professional front, you can picture yourself 0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:02.720 giving a professional performance review to yourself and if it 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:04.720 was like a stunning review at the end of the year, 0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:06.560 like she did, X, Y, and Z, Well, what are 0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:08.400 those things like? What are the things that would make 0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:10.080 it an amazing year? Well, now you know what your 0:29:10.120 --> 0:29:12.760 top professional priorities for the next six months are. And 0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:14.680 same thing with your personal life too. You could picture 0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:18.040 yourself at a holiday party and you're telling friends and 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.040 family you know what you did in your personal life 0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:22.280 over the course of the year. Well, what would those 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:23.760 things be like if it was going to be an 0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.320 awesome year for your family, Like, what would you have done? 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:29.040 I don't know, you know your you ran a ten 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:31.840 k with your spouse and you took an extended family 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:35.160 trip to Ireland or you you know, just things like this. 0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:39.160 But if you think about these things, then you can start, 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:41.480 you know, making them happen. If you have no idea 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:43.800 what they are, good stuff can still come to you, 0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:45.640 Like I'm not saying it won't, and we should definitely 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:50.240 leave space open for opportunity. But many things that are 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:54.280 great require some intention and planning of time as for 0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:56.200 the weekly, because you asked, you know the year, and 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.200 then you also asked the week. I planned my weeks 0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:01.440 on Friday afternoons. And this was a really early episode 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:04.440 of Before Breakfast that I did that I said, planned 0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:07.200 your week on Friday afternoon. And I think this is 0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:08.720 the one that the most people have written into me 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:10.800 about being like, oh my goodness, that was life changing. 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.400 Because when you take some time on Friday afternoon to 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:16.880 think about the upcoming week, you can say, well, what's 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:19.880 important to me? What are my priorities? When can those happen? 0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:22.680 When can I put those on the schedule. Well, now 0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:24.840 suddenly you have time on the schedule for things you 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.120 have said that are important to you. How interesting. You 0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:29.080 can also take some time to figure out what is 0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:31.080 already on your calendar for the upcoming week, and you 0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:34.080 can ask yourself, well, are these things that should be 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:36.360 on my calendar for the upcoming week? Or should I 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:37.880 get rid of some of them? Or I can I 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:39.880 minimize some of them? Or can somebody else handle some 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.120 of them? And by doing those two things, putting in 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:45.280 space for the stuff that does matter to you, getting 0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:47.080 rid of stuff that's wound up on your calendar that 0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:50.520 is not important to you. You just vastly increase the 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:52.920 chances that you have a great week where you make 0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:55.000 progress on your priorities. And then you do it again 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.360 the next Friday, and then again you make progress on 0:30:57.400 --> 0:31:00.240 your priorities, and and this this overtime creates a great 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:02.440 life quick follow up then right. A lot of times 0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:04.840 when folks hear that, they think, oh, man, she's scheduling 0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:07.880 out her entire next week. It sounds really rigid, And 0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:10.080 life happens. Right, You've got four kids, there's pulls on 0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:12.440 us from work, there's pulls on us from our personal lives. 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:13.840 And these are things that we want to do. It's 0:31:13.880 --> 0:31:15.560 not like these are things that we're going to put 0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:17.080 the kabash on and say no, we're not going to 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:19.320 do this. How do you maintain that structure but at 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.280 the same time leave a good bit of flexibility there 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:25.000 to be able to work those things into your schedule 0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:27.360 while at the same time feeling like that you're still 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:31.040 being productive and sticking to the schedule. Does that make sense? Yes, 0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:33.320 it definitely does. And I do not schedule every minute 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.840 like I don't put things into every minute of my life, 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:37.960 and I would say that it's it's a false choice 0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:40.360 to think that you're even planning every minute or planning nothing. 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:43.320 There is such a huge space between planning every second 0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:47.080 planning nothing at all. Neither one probably serves us very well. 0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:49.400 You want to be somewhere in the middle with a 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:52.240 bit of time that you know you intend to devote 0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:55.440 to these important things, and then also plenty of open 0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:57.640 space for the stuff comes up. I like to say 0:31:57.680 --> 0:32:01.440 I plan because life doesn't go according to plan. This 0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:04.840 was very apparent to me a certain week at the 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:08.160 end of October where one of the most random things happened, 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:11.000 where one of my kids wound up with like multiple 0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:14.880 er visits. Not fun at all. Um, he's fine, but 0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:18.560 you know it was. It was something that had to 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:21.600 be dealt with. But I still felt at the end 0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:24.240 of the week like I had a really good week, 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:27.360 and that's because I had identified the Friday before, like, 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:30.640 these are the three things that absolutely have to happen, 0:32:31.120 --> 0:32:34.160 And so when my life flew completely out of order 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:36.560 because of this stuff, I knew that these are the 0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:38.760 three things I was going to do. Everything else could go, 0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:41.320 but those three things were still going to happen, and 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.640 I did, Like, in a hundred sixty hours, you can 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:46.680 probably get to three things, right. But you know, if 0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:48.240 I had had some if I had just had some 0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:50.840 nebulous idea of oh there's stuff I should do, you know, 0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:52.960 and but there's just like a hundred things I should do, 0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:54.760 I wouldn't have gotten to it, and then I would 0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:56.400 have felt terrible at the end of the week. Yeah, 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:58.560 that's those are great thoughts. So all right, you've mentioned 0:32:58.720 --> 0:33:00.520 you mentioned your kid going to the are and you 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:03.440 have four kids, so you have a busy family life. 0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:06.240 And you know, Matt's wife is pregnant with with their 0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:08.360 fourth child. My wife is pregnant with our third child. 0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:12.360 So we're totally with you on this. Oh yeah, we're there. 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:15.600 Her family life becomes obviously like the most fun part 0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:18.280 of our lives. But then at the same time, there's 0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:22.400 just a lot that's required inside of that. So how 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:26.240 do you make wise choices with your time, especially when 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:28.480 you have a large family, And what does that look 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:31.760 like to be intentional on the day to day when 0:33:31.800 --> 0:33:35.160 it comes to how you incorporate family time into that 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:38.440 like hundred sixty eight hours of your week. Yeah, well, 0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:40.240 I mean I do the bulk of my work while 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:43.080 my kids are at school. Um, so then I'm pretty 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:46.840 much around most of the other time. So so right there, 0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:50.440 there's just a sheer quantity of hours um that, as 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:53.520 you know, with multiple children, you do wind up spending 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:54.800 a lot of time with them. There's some of the 0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:57.280 people have this bit of this false notion that if 0:33:57.360 --> 0:33:59.520 if you have a job, you don't see your family. 0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:01.560 I was like, well, hundred sixty eight hours a week, 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.480 you work forty, Like, there's a lot of other time 0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:07.840 if you subtract forty from eight, so you're you're still 0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:10.640 gonna wind up seeing a fair amount of them. But 0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:13.920 you know, in any given moment. One of the phrases 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:16.680 that comes up a lot in in Juliette's School of 0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:21.040 Possibilities is this idea that expectations are infinite. Time is finite. 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:25.040 You are always choosing choose well, And so I try 0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:27.720 to check in with myself and ask, am I choosing 0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:30.719 well right now? And so if I'm having a good 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:32.839 conversation with one of my kids at the breakfast table 0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:34.480 and be like, well, maybe a good choice would just 0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:38.400 be to sit here, like just keep sitting and probably 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.080 whatever I was gonna do in five minutes, like I 0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:44.000 can do inten, you know, and it will be okay 0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:47.879 that that's a good choice in the moment. Of course, 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.040 if I'm on a huge deadline for something, it's it's 0:34:50.040 --> 0:34:51.840 okay to tell the kid. You know, by the way, 0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:54.360 you can figure out your own homework right now. I 0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:57.719 already did sixth grade. This is not my problem. Like 0:34:58.080 --> 0:34:59.839 you know, if you're truly stumped, come back in an 0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:02.239 hour or but don't talk to me before then. And 0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:05.720 you know, I do try to, especially with a larger family, 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:08.360 and you guys will appreciate this as your your families 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:12.200 are growing too, But attempting to spend some one on 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:15.439 one time with each family member goes a long way. 0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:18.600 And it doesn't have to be daily. It doesn't have 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.040 to necessarily even happen every week, because once you have 0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:23.080 four kids, you wind up batching them to gather for 0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:26.520 all sorts of activities. But I do one on one 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:29.080 days with each of my kids each year, like in 0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:31.520 the summer, uh, and I try to do something special 0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:34.360 with them for their birthdays. So that's like eight events 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:36.640 a year, which doesn't you know, a ton. It does 0:35:36.680 --> 0:35:38.560 take some time, but It doesn't take a ton of 0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:41.360 time necessarily, but those tend to be things that the 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:43.759 kids form really good memories of, and I think that 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:45.640 those would be some of the things that the kids 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:47.239 would mention of, like, you know, what did you do 0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:48.920 this year? Oh? Well, I went to an Eagles game 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:51.640 with mommy, or we went to the American Girl Cafe 0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:54.600 in New York with mommy, or various whatever else I've done. 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:58.120 I've played paintball or whatever else I've had to do 0:35:59.000 --> 0:36:02.000 the kid wants to do. So Yes, it is amazing 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:05.200 how meaningful those one on one times are. And you know, 0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:07.799 my girls right now are five and three, and even 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:10.200 if it's just like going to the waffle house for 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.560 breakfast just the two of us, or just an after 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:14.919 dinner walk just the two of us, Um, it's really 0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:16.880 fun to go do those things as a whole family. 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:19.799 But you're completely right. I think that setting aside one 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:22.759 on one time for your spouse and then also for 0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:26.320 your kids is I mean, it's just instrumental to building 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:29.680 the foundation of an important relationship. I want to mention 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:31.839 a listener of ours, Andy, I was talking to him 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:34.160 the other day and he mentioned how once his kids 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:35.839 he actually has four kids as well, and once they 0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:39.520 hit four years old, he comes back to visit his parents, 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:42.120 just him and that child, just to have this this 0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:45.359 long extended trip quality time with the grandparents but as 0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:47.440 well as with him as a father, and they do 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:49.360 fun stuff around the city, go to the zoo, you know, 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:51.759 different things like that. But that really stood up to 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:53.400 me because you know, what he said was that this 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:56.160 is before they start kindergarten, so they're not necessarily locked 0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.040 into the school calendar. Yet I have that flexibility. Why 0:36:59.080 --> 0:37:01.839 not take this time to deep in that relationship with them? 0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:03.640 And Laura, I completely agree with you. I mean when 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:05.520 they look back at the year, those will be the 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:08.560 sort of key stand days or moments whatever it is 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:10.600 that you happen to be doing. And so to hear 0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:13.400 examples of that, I don't know, that's really inspiring and 0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:15.879 encouraging to me. And a good thing to spend money on. 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:17.879 You know, it doesn't have to be expensive, but if 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:20.160 you are going to spend something money on something that 0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:23.400 might be a good thing. Waffle House very inexpensive. Right 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:27.200 do you have waff houses up in Philadelphia? I think 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:30.200 we do. Um, you know, I love taking kids out 0:37:30.239 --> 0:37:32.439 for breakfast too. It's it's a good think. You think, 0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:38.399 maybe I just don't go out for breakfast. All right, Well, 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:40.600 so okay, I'm curious to get your thoughts on morning 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:43.120 routines and even more, and we'll get to that right 0:37:43.160 --> 0:37:53.600 after the break al Right, we were just talking about 0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:56.480 waffle house. Let's talk about morning routines, Laura, how can 0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:59.439 we make our mornings a little less crazy and more 0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:01.839 of a health you foundation for everyone to start their days. 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:04.960 What are some pieces of your morning routine that keep 0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.759 things peaceful and on track? Yeah, I mean, the key 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:09.640 thing to realize with the morning routine is it doesn't 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.359 have to be an hour long meditation session and then 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.360 an hour long boot camp and then drinking some ridiculous 0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:19.359 green drink um that seems terrible. I'm a big fan 0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:22.279 of breakfast food. In terms of real breakfast food. You 0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:24.200 want to ask, well, what would make you actually excited 0:38:24.239 --> 0:38:26.880 to get out of bed? A good morning routine should 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:29.759 give you an extra reason to get up, and you 0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:31.520 don't have to wake up at four am. I mean, 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:33.560 you know, sometimes it's just about getting up a few 0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:37.520 minutes before you absolutely have to and using that time intentionally. 0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:40.319 You could meditate of course, or pray or whatever else 0:38:40.360 --> 0:38:42.440 you do. Um, you could write in a journal, Um, 0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:44.239 you could do some sort of exercise. That's a great 0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:45.759 way to spend your mornings. Or it could be you know, 0:38:45.800 --> 0:38:47.840 focused family time, Like we're going to have a relaxed 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:51.480 family breakfast instead of everyone running around the kitchen all crazed, 0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:54.080 you know, sit down and eat together and then go 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:56.719 about your day. And you know, particularly for families where 0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:59.120 family dinner may not happen as often as you wish, 0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:02.600 family breakfast could be a good substitute. So for me 0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:05.080 a usual weekday morning, UM, I tend to wake up 0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:09.160 about sixty five and get myself ready, start making breakfast, 0:39:09.320 --> 0:39:14.759 and get my middle schooler up about seven fifteen, eat 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:17.640 with him, eat with my husband if he's home. UM, 0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:20.160 and our youngest, the four year old, we sort of 0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:23.960 have our first shift, and then UM, as he's getting ready, 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:26.279 the other two children start coming down. The nine year 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:27.719 old and the seven year old come down sort of 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:29.880 the second shift of breakfast. But I'm pretty much in 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:32.759 breakfast mode from like seven am to eight am. I 0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:34.760 and I thought at some point like that's a ridiculous 0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:38.839 amount of time to spend on breakfast, but it's time 0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:43.040 I have, so I am they're doing family breakfast stuff 0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:46.239 from seven to eight are nanny comes at eight. I 0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:50.560 tend to spend eight to if I'm not doing the 0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:52.920 middle school carpoal that's when I do a little bit 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.319 of strength training. I've gotten in this habit of doing 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.120 some kettlebell and resistance band stuffs. And then I then I, 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:01.640 you know, glance at email or anything that's really small 0:40:02.520 --> 0:40:05.839 admin stuff. Then get the nine year old and seven 0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:09.480 year old out to the bus. Come in thirty five 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.040 to nine is my free writing time, Like I just 0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:15.200 do writing that isn't going to be published, but I'm 0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:18.120 just trying stuff out seeing you know, writing practice, and 0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:20.520 then nine o'clock start my work day. I wanted to 0:40:20.560 --> 0:40:23.279 ask you about managing distractions. I feel like there's so 0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:25.839 much that can distract us in our society today. It's 0:40:25.840 --> 0:40:28.959 really easy to get sucked away from the task at hand, 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:31.600 and and in particular, our phones have become kind of 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:34.960 that main culprit for us that just draws our attention 0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:37.759 away ever so slightly in some cases and then just 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:40.799 way more than slightly in other in other cases. So 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.480 what impact do you feel like phones are having on 0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:46.600 our productivity at work, and then also kind of how 0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:49.440 we're able to have relationships with other people and how 0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:52.160 can we use our phones as tools as opposed to 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:54.720 letting them use us. Well, that's just it. They are tools, 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.799 and they're very useful tools. I've been obsessed lately with 0:40:57.840 --> 0:41:00.400 this app that I can point my camera at a 0:41:00.400 --> 0:41:02.279 plant and it tells me what it is like. That's 0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:03.799 kind of fun for when you're out on a hike, 0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:05.879 like you see like this is well, this is poison IVY, 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:07.880 don't touch it. That's a helpful thing to see. Um, 0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:11.840 but you know, this is the name seek s e K. 0:41:12.400 --> 0:41:15.480 Pointed at any plant and it tells you and then 0:41:15.480 --> 0:41:17.279 you look like you know something about botany and that 0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:19.759 can be exciting for some of us. But yeah, I 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.360 mean the key is to use it as a tool 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:24.560 as opposed to being the thing that is running your life. 0:41:24.920 --> 0:41:27.440 You can turn it off, you can not use it 0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:29.680 at various points, and if you're doing something that you 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:32.080 would like to focus on, making a point of not 0:41:32.120 --> 0:41:34.839 looking at it is great. And I tend to leave 0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:37.319 it in my bag if I'm having, you know, lunch 0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:39.360 with someone for instance, I'd never put it somewhere that 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:40.880 I would actually see it, because I figured, you know, 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:42.400 at the end of the lunch, I can look at it. 0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:44.439 But you know, if I've chosen to spend this time 0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:46.799 with this person, pretty much nothing coming in on the 0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:49.440 phone is going to be more important than that. You know, 0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:51.759 people have always felt they're busy. Sometimes people ask me 0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:53.960 this question of like, oh, well, because of phones, or 0:41:54.000 --> 0:41:57.359 we are now busier than ever before, Like, no, we're not. 0:41:57.880 --> 0:41:59.840 People have always thought they were busy. People have always 0:41:59.840 --> 0:42:02.640 thought they're busier than any other time in the human history. 0:42:03.280 --> 0:42:06.080 We're still people. We still get distracted by things. People 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:07.719 got distracted by things when all that was coming in 0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:09.800 was like the facts machine, and they probably got distracted 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:12.440 by their facts. Is that they get distracted by colleagues, 0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:15.920 They get distracted by whatever else memos that we're coming out. 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:20.040 Like I just uh, this great quote from Eleanor Roosevelt 0:42:20.080 --> 0:42:21.759 of all people, I just read her book You You 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:24.080 Learned By Living. She she wrote an advice column for 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:27.080 years and but this is her self help book. And 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:29.840 she talks about how the mail follows her around, and 0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:32.040 she'll travel and the mail will follow her around and 0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:33.520 she gets back to her desk and she has to 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:36.040 work long hours on several days to answer all the mail. 0:42:36.080 --> 0:42:37.920 And I'm like, you could put email in here and 0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:40.479 it would be the exact same thing, right, Like, Yeah, 0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:44.319 people forget that all right. So, uh, In particular, when 0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:46.640 we're talking about phones, I feel like there are all 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:49.280 these little small sections of time that we have throughout 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:52.320 the day, and we used to spend them on a 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:55.440 board maybe, uh, And now that's just not something we 0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:57.080 have to deal with. We we never have to be 0:42:57.120 --> 0:42:59.560 bored because we have our phones in front of us. 0:42:59.719 --> 0:43:02.720 But you've talked about kind of taking back those smaller 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:04.920 sections of your day and trying to use them in 0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:08.360 a purposeful manner. So how would you suggest people instead 0:43:08.360 --> 0:43:10.160 of pulling out their phones when they have a spare 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:12.560 five minutes, how can they use those small pockets of 0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:15.680 time effectively in Well, well, you could do other stuff 0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:18.040 that's on your phone. I put the Kindle app on 0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:20.080 my phone a couple of years ago, and so I 0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:22.920 can start reading the books in these short bits of time. 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:25.919 And you can get through a lot of literature in 0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:28.400 these five minute chunks that you would have been scrolling 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:31.560 around in social media. And it actually adds up pretty quickly. 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:33.560 Of course, you don't need to be on your phone. 0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:35.640 I mean you can use the time to journal, or 0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:38.120 write a thank you note, or um, go talk to 0:43:38.120 --> 0:43:40.880 a colleague, or sit in daydream and look at the 0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:43.520 sky stare at the clouds. It's kind of you know, 0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:45.359 it's hard to tell yourself you have no time when 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:47.560 you can sit there and stare at the clouds. But 0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:49.600 people will then tell themselves they have no time when 0:43:49.640 --> 0:43:52.000 they spend the exact same quantity of time on their 0:43:52.040 --> 0:43:55.280 phones looking at Instagram. I mean, they still have time. 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:58.279 It's just being on your phone doesn't feel relaxing, and 0:43:58.320 --> 0:44:00.439 so it tends not to register as lee your time, 0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:02.480 and so then it's gone as if you didn't have 0:44:02.520 --> 0:44:04.560 it at all. All right, So I've gotten one final 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:07.600 question for you, Laura. You gave this really awesome Ted 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:10.640 talk back in and one of the things you talked 0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:14.120 about in there was this example of a broken water heater. 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:16.680 And if any of us had a broken water heater 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:20.520 at our house where where water was pouring over the 0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:22.840 top or something, and and and it was you know, 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.320 rushing out into our kitchen, living room, whatever, it would 0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:29.120 literally be the only thing we could focus on, because 0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:31.120 I mean, what else can you think about when something 0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:34.279 of that magnitude is happening at your house? And so, yeah, 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:36.480 fill us in on what it looks like to kind 0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:39.520 of prioritize certain things in the way that you would 0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:43.000 prioritize a broken water heater in your house. Yeah. So 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:45.000 this lady had checked her time for me, and in 0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:47.879 the course of her week of tracking, this water heater broke, 0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:49.480 and so she had to spend a ton of time 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:51.359 dealing with it, you know, with the flood in her 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:55.000 basement and the plumbers and all this stuff. And it 0:44:55.000 --> 0:44:57.240 was it was like seven hours of her week devoted 0:44:57.280 --> 0:44:59.680 to the seven hours. And and so you know, we said, well, 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:01.919 at the start of the week, when you said, let's 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:05.080 find seven hours for something else, right, let's find seven 0:45:05.080 --> 0:45:07.880 hours to train for a triathlon. Let's find seven hours 0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:10.520 to you know, read a quarter of the way through 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:13.440 war and peace or something like that, she wouldn't have 0:45:13.440 --> 0:45:14.840 been able to find the time. So I don't have 0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:17.280 seven hours, right, But when she had to find seven 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.560 hours because there's water all over her basement, she found 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.959 seven hours. And so I think it's important to view 0:45:23.080 --> 0:45:25.240 time this way, like if you if something is important 0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:27.920 enough to you, you will find a way to make 0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:31.160 the time for it. Something else will go. Well, what 0:45:31.280 --> 0:45:33.000 is that something else? Because maybe you could make it 0:45:33.040 --> 0:45:35.560 go even if there isn't water all over your basement, right, 0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:37.479 And I really do think we can try to treat 0:45:37.480 --> 0:45:40.279 our priorities as the equivalent of that broken water heater 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:42.680 and get to them with that sort of urgency, that 0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:45.600 sense of I have to do this now. Practically, what 0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:47.239 that means for most people is doing it first thing 0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:49.160 in the morning, because that's the time when we can 0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:52.799 do it before everything else gets away from you. That's great, Laura. 0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:54.600 You know what we kind of keep coming back to, 0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:57.439 and you said this as well as intentionality, um, and 0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:00.120 how every minute we spend is our choice in the 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.480 same way that every dollar we spend is our choice. Right, 0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:04.400 Like when it comes to our money, a lot of 0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:06.040 times we say, well we I just don't have money 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:08.400 for that, or you say, oh, well that's just not 0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:10.480 in the budget. Well it can be in the budget 0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:13.160 if you actually want it to be in the budget. Right. 0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.719 It's it's a matter of if it's a priority for 0:46:15.719 --> 0:46:20.040 you or not. And in Juliet's School of Possibilities. There's 0:46:20.040 --> 0:46:21.920 a quote in there a character says that if you 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:24.799 say that I don't have time, what that really means 0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:26.839 is that it's not a priority, right, and that we 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:29.839 always have time for what matters to us. And so 0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:32.680 what other ways that if we find ourselves saying that 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:35.120 we don't have time, like, what should that remind us 0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:38.200 to do? Well? I think it might help. This is 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:41.040 sort of a see if you can find one hour, 0:46:41.719 --> 0:46:44.239 like over the course of the next week, if there's 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:46.279 something you've identified that you say, just I don't have 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:49.480 time for this, could you find one hour over the 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:51.120 next week? And it doesn't even have to be one 0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:53.319 consecutive hour, and it could be like ten minutes on 0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:56.480 six days, right or fifteen minutes on four days, But 0:46:56.600 --> 0:46:59.879 could you find an hour for this? Now? I think 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.000 probably you could. If you track your time, you'll probably 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.280 see well over an hour devoted to at least something 0:47:05.360 --> 0:47:08.040 that you don't care about. So let's try to do 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:10.560 one hour, and at the end of the week if 0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:14.480 you've done it, great, celebrate. If you haven't asked yourself, 0:47:14.520 --> 0:47:17.759 why not, like what happened that you couldn't devote one 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:20.319 hour to this thing and see what you can do 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.120 to address that. But yeah, I mean, it really is 0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:24.920 a matter of what is a priority to you and 0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:26.919 if you're not making time for something in your life, 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.600 but maybe it's not a priority, and that's okay, Like 0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:31.239 we can acknowledge that, we can say it is not 0:47:31.280 --> 0:47:33.080 a priority for me to do this. And it's the 0:47:33.120 --> 0:47:35.560 same thing with money. I mean, you know, there's various 0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:37.120 things that the world will tell us we have to 0:47:37.120 --> 0:47:39.200 spend money on. Whether it's having you know, two cars 0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:41.200 and a family or not. That's maybe that's something that 0:47:41.239 --> 0:47:43.680 a family doesn't need, they don't care about it. Maybe 0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:45.480 it's that you live in a smaller house and use 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:48.479 your money to travel. There's various choices you can make 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.480 if you wish to. They may not be the normal choices, 0:47:51.560 --> 0:47:55.560 but that's okay. We're all about not normal choices, that's 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:58.800 for sure. This has been a really really fun conversation. Laura. 0:47:59.360 --> 0:48:02.120 We are huge fans of your book and your new 0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:06.359 podcast Before Breakfast, and can you tell our listeners where 0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:09.040 else they can find more out about you? Yeah, if 0:48:09.040 --> 0:48:11.879 they want to come visit my website, Laura Vanderkam dot com. 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:15.480 I blogged. There are usually four times a week and 0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:18.040 you can learn all about my my podcasts and books. 0:48:18.040 --> 0:48:20.640 They're awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:22.279 on the show today. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, 0:48:22.280 --> 0:48:23.799 and we hope we didn't uh kind of throw out 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:25.480 your voice a little bit. We know you're seeing tonight, 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:27.440 So thanks for talking to us here. It'll be good. 0:48:27.480 --> 0:48:28.840 As long as I didn't have the beer too, I 0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:31.560 should be good with just speaking. Yes, awesome, Well, thanks 0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:34.520 so much. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me, all right, Matt. 0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.839 I love that conversation. I love kind of Laura's philosophy, 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:40.680 and I love how time and money. You know, really, 0:48:40.719 --> 0:48:42.319 when it comes down to it, we should be thinking 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:44.640 about both similarly. I thought that was that's kind of 0:48:44.640 --> 0:48:47.359 my takeaway from this episode. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean we 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:49.319 we said at the beginning, right, how we know that 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:53.399 time is not money. Time is not intrinsically linked to money. 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:55.400 You don't have to have time in order to make money. 0:48:55.520 --> 0:48:58.400 But like you said, uh, they're really similar. And the 0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:00.479 way we treat our time the way we we treat 0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:02.640 our money are very similar. And it comes down a 0:49:02.640 --> 0:49:05.279 lot to you know, what our priorities are what we're 0:49:05.280 --> 0:49:07.920 actually gonna do with what we have, and just having 0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:10.439 a plan and kind of moving forward with that. Yeah, 0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:11.879 I'm I'm so stoked that we were able to talk 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:14.560 to Laura. She's total pro by the way, super awesome. 0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:16.680 So glad she was able to join us. Yeah, no doubt. 0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:18.160 All right, let's get back to the beer real quick. 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:20.560 Today on the show, we drank a beer called Infinity 0:49:20.600 --> 0:49:23.400 Bloom by New Grass Brewing Company. Matt, your mother in 0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:26.279 law kindly for us. Unlike last time they left a 0:49:26.320 --> 0:49:27.640 beer in our fridge and you and I drank it 0:49:27.719 --> 0:49:29.239 for an episode. You remember that one was more of 0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:31.960 a skull and beer than a donation. Yeah, I sort 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:35.600 of donated by default. Yeah, this one was fantastic. It 0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:38.000 was a double dry Hopps I p a as a 0:49:38.000 --> 0:49:41.200 pretty little purple flower here on the can art. What 0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:43.400 were thoughts, man? Yeah? Man, honestly, I feel like the 0:49:43.440 --> 0:49:46.680 pretty little purple flower kind of encompasses what the sper 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:49.399 tasted like. Yeah, yeah, this is gonna sound kind of weird, 0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:51.120 but it was soft and luscious. Is is the old 0:49:51.200 --> 0:49:52.640 is the two words I kind of came up with 0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:55.920 to describe this beer. It was like super hoppy, but 0:49:56.000 --> 0:49:59.080 it didn't have that massive hot bite. It just was 0:49:59.280 --> 0:50:02.439 reserved in it's in a way, but it's still had 0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:05.279 like this really full flavor even though it had that 0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:07.200 kind of soft mouth field. It was I thought it 0:50:07.200 --> 0:50:09.480 was delicious. Yeah, a lot of floral notes and softness 0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:11.440 in between you and the hops. Right, Yeah, I was 0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:13.319 thinking drinking this beer. It's sort of like riding around 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:16.200 in a Cadillac. It's just really lush, really cush, you 0:50:16.239 --> 0:50:18.000 know what I'm saying, Like a buick Er and Cadillac. 0:50:18.040 --> 0:50:20.040 I don't know either one, but just just a really 0:50:20.080 --> 0:50:22.319 comfy car where it doesn't where it feels like you're 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:24.600 kind of just floating on a cloud. Yeah. Okay, now 0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:26.080 that's a good way to say it. So thanks to 0:50:26.560 --> 0:50:30.040 Mono and Pop that's what my kiddos called them for 0:50:30.120 --> 0:50:32.080 donating this beer and picking this one up for us 0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:34.680 for this episode. And if you want links to Laura's 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:36.200 website in the books and some of the things that 0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:38.400 she's up to, go check out the show notes for 0:50:38.440 --> 0:50:41.640 this episode on our website how to money dot com. 0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:43.960 And if you found this episode helpful and enjoyed it, 0:50:44.280 --> 0:50:46.600 we would love for you to leave a review. Over 0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:49.239 on Apple Podcasts. And if you feel that Joe and 0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:51.480 I have room for improvement, we also want to hear 0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:53.759 from you. Uh. You can leave your message over at 0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:56.440 our website again at how to money dot com slash 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.920 do Better. So, Joel, that's gonna be it for this episode, man. 0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:03.320 Until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,