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Speaker 1: Revels is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve, I'm

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Speaker 1: Jordan's and we've tralled angel Fire, Geo cities, and Tripod

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Speaker 1: message boards. They've got the choicest cuts for this beef

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Speaker 1: from the early adds. I'm so excited. We got Creed,

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Speaker 1: we got limp Biscuit, And they're both so fascinating to

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Speaker 1: me because they have these huge sales figures which are

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Speaker 1: then dwarfed by the hatred that they seem to inspire

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Speaker 1: on such a gargantuan scale. I don't know if it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a classic case of silent majority rock. I

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Speaker 1: guess yeah. These bands were part of the last era

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Speaker 1: really when rock bands sold millions upon millions of albums.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think they each sold upwards of like

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Speaker 1: I don't Creed at least as like an album that's

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Speaker 1: sold ten million copies. I think Olympiscuit has a couple

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Speaker 1: of records that that got up that high. And to me,

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Speaker 1: they really were the defining bands of like the late nineties,

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Speaker 1: which was a time in America, where I feel like

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Speaker 1: we were in this like really decadent period. You know,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't really anything wrong going on in the world.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there weren't any wars that we were in.

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Speaker 1: There was no real economic strife. You know, we didn't

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Speaker 1: have social media melting at everyone's brains into mush um,

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Speaker 1: like Bill Clinton having an affair was the worst thing

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Speaker 1: going on. I feel like exactly, But I feel like

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Speaker 1: when there isn't some larger cause that can unite Americans,

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Speaker 1: whether it's like World War two or like the way

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Speaker 1: that the country briefly came together after nine eleven, we

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Speaker 1: turned inward and we get self destructive just because I

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Speaker 1: think we're bored as Americans. And I think that happened

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Speaker 1: in late nineties, so like we gravitated to bands that

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Speaker 1: either peddled self important angst, which was Creed, or proudly

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Speaker 1: dumb party music, which was Limp Biscuit, And of course

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Speaker 1: these two bands ended up turning against each other and

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Speaker 1: sparking a feud. I really listen to both of these

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Speaker 1: in preparation for this episode. And you know I did

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Speaker 1: that with Blink one eighty two and a few other episodes,

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Speaker 1: and with Blink. I was surprised by how much I

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Speaker 1: enjoyed revisiting all that music. I not only was just

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Speaker 1: hit with all these great waves of nostalgia, but I

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Speaker 1: was really impressed with just the quality of the songwriting,

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Speaker 1: and I really appreciated it. This didn't occur when I

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Speaker 1: revisited the music of Creator olymp Biscuit. I have to

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Speaker 1: say I found myself just as confused as I was

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Speaker 1: back when there were radio stables. Yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: already feel like I'm in an awkward and frankly shocking

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Speaker 1: position here because I think I might be the one

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Speaker 1: in this episode who actually defend at least one of

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Speaker 1: these bands, which I probably would not do in any

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Speaker 1: other context. I don't want to take my hand too

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Speaker 1: much here, but I will say that self important bands

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Speaker 1: rarely age well, and in fact, I think they seem

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Speaker 1: funnier the farther you get away from them, whereas I

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Speaker 1: think bands that are proudly dumb and don't take themselves

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Speaker 1: that seriously actually seem like a little bit smarter once

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Speaker 1: you have some time separating, you know, from their big

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Speaker 1: peak in the culture. So I guess for now I'll

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Speaker 1: leave it at that. But before we go any further

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Speaker 1: down that road where I'm going to actually defend one

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Speaker 1: of these terrible bands, we should probably get into the

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Speaker 1: background of this feud. So without further ado, let's get

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Speaker 1: into this mess. I guess it's fitting that this all

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Speaker 1: started at a concert called k Rocks Dysfunctional Family Picnic,

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Speaker 1: which it's the perfect name for this. It's so it's

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Speaker 1: June two thousand. There's a bunch of bands playing this

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Speaker 1: radio station festival outside of New York City. The headliners

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Speaker 1: are are very two thousand. I have to say Ozzy Osbourne,

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Speaker 1: Stone Temple, Pilots and Create and Limp Biscuit is also

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Speaker 1: on this bill, but they are not one of the headliners,

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Speaker 1: and Fred Durst is not very happy about this, so

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Speaker 1: he refuses to go on. I could see him being

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Speaker 1: okay with taking a backseat to AUSI n STP, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Creed obviously is a sticking point to him,

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Speaker 1: so he refuses to go on. And the band later

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Speaker 1: claimed that there was some mix up over their set

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Speaker 1: time and they were stuck in traffic and all those

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Speaker 1: old excuses, but really they weren't happy going on when

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Speaker 1: it was still light out. I'm guessing at arson fires

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Speaker 1: are less impressive when the sun is still out. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. So finally Sharon Osborne gets involved, and you

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Speaker 1: don't want Sharon Osborne to get piste off. Sharon Osbourne,

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Speaker 1: I should say, to get involved. That's can you just

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Speaker 1: imagine that voice and then the voice you're saying nookie,

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Speaker 1: just like screaming at each other, like it's the unmovable

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Speaker 1: force in the unstoppable object, like the cold collision here,

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Speaker 1: and and I will say to that, like I am

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Speaker 1: surprised that Limpiscuit wouldn't have been a headliner, because they

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Speaker 1: were a huge band at two thousands, certainly bigger than

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Speaker 1: Stone Tuple Pilots Ozzy you want to put up there

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Speaker 1: because of the legacy aspect. But again, I've already set

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Speaker 1: up the idea that I'm gonna maybe be defending Limpiscuit

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Speaker 1: in this episode, which I hate doing. I feel like

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Speaker 1: a defense attorney that is, like defending like a serial

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Speaker 1: killer or something like. But I will say that in

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Speaker 1: this instance, I think Fredger's maybe has a point, although

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Speaker 1: he probably doesn't go about it the right way, as

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Speaker 1: we'll soon find out. Right, So Sharon Osborne threatens to

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Speaker 1: pull Azzi from the lineup of Blimp Biscuit doesn't perform,

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Speaker 1: so they Trapes to the stage and he's still pretty

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Speaker 1: piste off, you know, right or wrong. He's not happy,

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Speaker 1: so he decides to take it out on Creed, specifically

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Speaker 1: Scott's stab. He gets on the stage and he tells

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Speaker 1: the crowd, I want to dedicate this next song to

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Speaker 1: the lead singer of Creed. Doesn't even know his name.

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Speaker 1: Probably that guy is an egomaniac. He says, he's a

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Speaker 1: fucking punk. He's backstage right now acting like fucking Michael Jackson.

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Speaker 1: Fuck that motherfucker and fuck you too, And if you want,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be a booth with pillows and blankets for

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Speaker 1: when Creed come on. Oh ah. I had to say, like,

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Speaker 1: I've seen the clip of this like a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's hilarious when he compares him to

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, like that always makes me laugh. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why. I just thought that was a really funny line.

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Speaker 1: But Scott Stapp did not take that as a compliment. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: nobody did mean. The organizers are already pissed at Fred

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Speaker 1: for delaying the show, and now He's worried they're gonna

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Speaker 1: piss off one of their headliners, so they cut the

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Speaker 1: sound on his mic and was just to give Fred,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple of minutes to maybe cooled down,

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Speaker 1: but it has the opposite effect. He's furious that they

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Speaker 1: tried to silence him, so he throws every mic off

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Speaker 1: the stage in a fit of rage just to try

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Speaker 1: to like foil the future acts and then he storms

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Speaker 1: off after something like six songs, so not a great performance. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Creed are like in the wings basically going what what

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Speaker 1: the hell? D uh? Scott Staff gets out there, they

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Speaker 1: start their show and he seems to address the this

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Speaker 1: whole thing during his set by telling the crowd you know,

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Speaker 1: it takes a lot more guts to say something to

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Speaker 1: somebody than to say it to him behind their backs,

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Speaker 1: which you know is probably him referencing Fred just saying

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Speaker 1: all the ship about him when he was sitting backstage,

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Speaker 1: probably having dinner or something. In addition to that, they

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Speaker 1: send Fred Durst an anger management manual inscribed to him

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Speaker 1: by the band. This will help you on your emotional

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Speaker 1: and spiritual quest, which, uh is weird? I just wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, back then, it wasn't easy to get your

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Speaker 1: hands on books. I mean, I think Amazon existed, but

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Speaker 1: it's not like get Amazon on Prime. Like, I just wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: how long did it take them to set up this

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Speaker 1: prank where they're going to send him an anger management manual?

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Speaker 1: So their bodyguard had it. I've actually looked into this,

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Speaker 1: which is sad in so many ways. Really, Yeah, their

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Speaker 1: bodyguards just happened to have it on them, so they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we can we can we keep this, we gotta, we

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Speaker 1: gotta send it to Fred Durst, and he was cool

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Speaker 1: with it. Obviously he'd read the anger management issue. So

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Speaker 1: Creed is this employing like furiously angry bodyguards who have

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Speaker 1: to consult manuals to control their various rage. And then

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Speaker 1: they realize we can utilize this for a prank against

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Speaker 1: Red Durst. It's like, I guess everything just came together

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Speaker 1: perfectly in this situation. It worked out well. But then

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Speaker 1: they also challenge for a Durst to a charity boxing match,

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Speaker 1: which kind of gaves the whole anger management thing right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I love the charity boxing match gambit,

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Speaker 1: you know, which we've already seen that occur in other episodes.

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Speaker 1: Memorably in the Axl Rose episode where I think him

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Speaker 1: and Vince Neil We're gonna have a charity boxing match. Um,

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Speaker 1: at some point we need to do an episode on

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Speaker 1: Tommy Lee and Kid Rock because that was a feud

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Speaker 1: and I think they were going to do a celebrity

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Speaker 1: boxing match, which I feel like these boxing matches never

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Speaker 1: actually occur. I think the only celebrity boxing match that

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Speaker 1: I can remember, they all involved Danny Bonaducci exactly like,

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Speaker 1: did you ever re challenge Well, I don't know. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna but I'm just saying like, if you ever

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Speaker 1: challenge Bonaduci to a fight, it is going to go

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Speaker 1: down like, Yeah, all these other people you can, you

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Speaker 1: can challenge them to a boxing match, and it's going

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Speaker 1: to just be a big bluff, But with Bonaduce, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be on bring your A Game. So this all

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Speaker 1: goes down on a Friday, and then Fred Durst appears

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Speaker 1: the following Monday on t r L And before we

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Speaker 1: talk about this, I just wonder like, do we need

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Speaker 1: to tell the youngsters out there like what TRL is?

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Speaker 1: Because I know that MTV revived it recently, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't really go anywhere just the idea that, like back

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Speaker 1: in the late nineties, that if you wanted to see

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Speaker 1: a music video, you had to call a major network

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Speaker 1: and you had to put in a request that they

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Speaker 1: were not going to follow anyway, but hopefully later that day,

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Speaker 1: maybe several hours later, Like that is how you would

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Speaker 1: see a music video. You know, there was no YouTube

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Speaker 1: back then. I just find that to be you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I lived through it, so I know what

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Speaker 1: it's like. But it's just saying that out loud in

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Speaker 1: our current context. It's just like hilariously antiquated to me. See,

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Speaker 1: I thought you had to get in my car and

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Speaker 1: drive the Times Square and just like stand there with

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Speaker 1: a sign to I guess that was like option B. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or like if you happen to have like pigeons in

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Speaker 1: your backyard, you could like scrawl like you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to hear oops, I did it again by Britney Spears,

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Speaker 1: and you would attach it to the pigeons foot and

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Speaker 1: then it would fly to New York City and drop

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Speaker 1: the note in Carson Daily's lap like a week later.

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Speaker 1: I think that was the other way that you could

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Speaker 1: quest videos back then. That's how Harry Potter heard the

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Speaker 1: entire Backstreet Boys discography. So anyway, t r L it

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Speaker 1: was this request video show on MTV. It was like

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Speaker 1: basically the hub of youth culture for a few years

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Speaker 1: there in the late nineties and early two thousands, and

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Speaker 1: the biggest things that they played back then were team

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Speaker 1: pop and new Metal. You know, those were like the

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Speaker 1: two poles of the TRL universe. So Fred Durst went

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Speaker 1: on TRL, and of course Carson Dalely the host asks

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Speaker 1: Fred Durst about this feud that is simmering between him

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Speaker 1: and Scott Stapp, And of course, first Fred plays coy.

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Speaker 1: He pretends like he doesn't know who Scott Stapp is,

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Speaker 1: you know, very funny fred Durst, but then he goes off,

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Speaker 1: starts ranting and reiterating a lot of the same points

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Speaker 1: that he made on stage at the k Rock concert.

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Speaker 1: He says that Scott Stapp is out of his mind.

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Speaker 1: He thinks he's a better human than everybody. He says

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Speaker 1: that Scott Stapp claims all the spirituality, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: give a damn about any of his friends. He says,

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Speaker 1: he ignores everybody. He has this quote where he says,

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Speaker 1: you walk by his dressing room and his people, they

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Speaker 1: look at you and they go you do not approach

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Speaker 1: the band, you do not talk to the band, you

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Speaker 1: do not look at the band. And then you see

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Speaker 1: him in the videos doing Jesus Christ thing. I think

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Speaker 1: referring to the video for Hire, you know that's where

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Speaker 1: he's really doing. Have you seen that video, like where

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Speaker 1: he like outstretches his arms and he starts like levitating.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I thought that was like a tribute to

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Speaker 1: the scene in Titanic. But I could see Jesus too,

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Speaker 1: I mean, because I think Creed has like a Christian

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Speaker 1: rock background or there was some sort of Christian rock connotations.

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Speaker 1: Their relationship to that was so weird because they always

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Speaker 1: like denied it, but it was pretty latent. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was always confused by that. I mean, this is like

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Speaker 1: a tangent we I don't know if we want to

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Speaker 1: go down too far this road. But like there was

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Speaker 1: that period like in the nineties, like where there were

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Speaker 1: like a lot of bands that came from the Christian

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Speaker 1: rock scene and they would write songs where the pronoun

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Speaker 1: could be Jesus or like it could be like a

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Speaker 1: hot girl that you're singing on the song too, Like

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Speaker 1: it's not clear who you are serenading in this song,

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Speaker 1: and like a lot of bands got over like that,

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Speaker 1: and Creed was one of those bands. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they could be talking about Jesus, they could be talking

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Speaker 1: about a girl, or they could be talking about you know,

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Speaker 1: some guy that they want to punch out because they

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Speaker 1: bumped them wrong. And then in a weight room somewhere

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Speaker 1: or something like that was the that was sort of

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Speaker 1: like the pretext offic a lot of Creed songs. You know,

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Speaker 1: Fred Durst is is basically calling him out, Scott step

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Speaker 1: for posturing in this very self important way, and and

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Speaker 1: Durst says, come on, man, put your feet on the ground,

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Speaker 1: because one of these days that's going to go away

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Speaker 1: and nobody will have anything to do with you if

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Speaker 1: you keep acting like that end quote and look again,

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Speaker 1: as like the Johnny Cochrane of Limp Biscuit in this episode,

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Speaker 1: I will concede that, like Fred Durst is an imperfect

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Speaker 1: vessel for this criticism. But isn't it fair to say

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Speaker 1: that like everything he just said there was like right

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Speaker 1: on the money. I mean, like that seems like a

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Speaker 1: very valid criticism of Creed. Yeah, I mean I don't

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Speaker 1: know how I've never heard any direct reports from like

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Speaker 1: fans of you know, during meet and great thing like

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Speaker 1: you know, avert your eyes when you approach Scott or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. But yeah, I mean the context clues

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Speaker 1: from the videos would would probably bear that out that

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Speaker 1: they probably took himself a wee bit seriously. And it

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Speaker 1: goes back to my point earlier about talking about how

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Speaker 1: self important people. I think generally they tend to get

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Speaker 1: their come uppets at some point, and and the music

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Speaker 1: that they make looks ridiculous the farther you get away

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Speaker 1: from it. Whereas I think someone like fred Durst, who

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Speaker 1: no one would say, you know, for everything you want

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Speaker 1: to say bad about fred Durst, and we're gonna say

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Speaker 1: some critical things about fred Durst later in this episode,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't seem like a guy that takes himself like

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Speaker 1: that seriously. And in a way, I feel like, no

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Speaker 1: matter what else you want to say about him, all

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Speaker 1: the terrible things about Olympus gets music, or you know,

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Speaker 1: the misogyny or like the violence that occurred at Olympus

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Speaker 1: could shows you know, all that stuff that I think

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Speaker 1: you could criticize them for the lack of self importance.

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Speaker 1: I think in this situation just makes him like more

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Speaker 1: sympathetic to me. What I think is funny though about

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Speaker 1: this is, you know, he's attacking Step for basically being

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Speaker 1: like an egomaniac, but the one area that he doesn't

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Speaker 1: go after is the music, which kind I feel like

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Speaker 1: with exactly doesn't he say like he calls their music

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Speaker 1: dope like on that Tierrel episode and he says yeah,

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Speaker 1: he says, I think they're a good band. And there

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Speaker 1: are numerous instances of like fred Durs saying stuff like

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Speaker 1: this about Creed and that sort of dumbfounds me because

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Speaker 1: I feel like, if you're going to attack Creed and

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Speaker 1: not make fun of their music, what else is there

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Speaker 1: that is I feel like you're leaving like a lot

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Speaker 1: of mock heable material on the table. It's almost like

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Speaker 1: fred Durst is taking the high road. The only time

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Speaker 1: I ever say that in this episode where he's taking

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Speaker 1: the high road, or like he actually likes their music.

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Speaker 1: So maybe you know, again, I say this as fred

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Speaker 1: Dur's lawyer, while I will defend him, it seems like

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Speaker 1: another instance where we could say that fred Durs has

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Speaker 1: terrible taste, right, Yeah, the ankle tattoos and big winter

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Speaker 1: tip off, his his defensive Creed on major network TV

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Speaker 1: shows is another tip off that he doesn't have the

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Speaker 1: best taste in the world. That's true, But then Creed

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Speaker 1: here's about this, and of course they reiterate what went

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Speaker 1: down at the k Rock Show as well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it seems like Frederick wanted to make this about, you know,

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Speaker 1: Creed being like this again a self important band, Scott

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Speaker 1: Stapp being an egomaniac. But isn't you like Creed that

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Speaker 1: kept kind of bringing it back to this almost like

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Speaker 1: point of order type issue, like where it was like

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Speaker 1: a dispute over the starting times at this concert. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Scott stop was always just saying he's called metigomaniac.

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Speaker 1: He's the one who refused to go on because he

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Speaker 1: didn't like his set time, he didn't like being lower

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Speaker 1: down on the bill, and he wanted to go on later,

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Speaker 1: you know, So how dare he tried to make me

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Speaker 1: look like the prima donna when he's the one who's

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Speaker 1: delaying the entire show because he wanted to go on

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Speaker 1: after dark. So I think that was their point. And uh,

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Speaker 1: and Scott said, you know, he wrote a blog post

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Speaker 1: and I feel so much installed that even just saying

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Speaker 1: blog post. But he goes on the band's blog and

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Speaker 1: he says, to be honest with you, do you think

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Speaker 1: Scott Stapp had a tumbler? You know, do you think

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Speaker 1: get like a tumbler like where he was like typing

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Speaker 1: out like follow up boy lyrics, And I think about

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Speaker 1: his innermost I think in zanga or a bloggy or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, oh man, we love to read

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Speaker 1: scott Steps blog. I wonder it's probably only the way

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Speaker 1: Back Machine or one of those things. I bet you

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Speaker 1: it's archived somewhere. God, I hope so. But he basically

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Speaker 1: claimed that that he never even met Fred Durst, and

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Speaker 1: then this whole thing was just a complete fiction. And

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Speaker 1: Fred's just trying to deflect blame for throwing his own

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Speaker 1: hissy fit for not wanting to go on at the

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Speaker 1: right time. Uh. So the band puts out a statement,

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Speaker 1: Scott has his little blog post. Uh. Fred Durst responds

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Speaker 1: uh to creed statement with a terse one of his own.

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Speaker 1: I think to MTV and he said what I said

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Speaker 1: about Creed, I meant the starting time of our New

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Speaker 1: York show had nothing to do with my comments. I

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Speaker 1: bet some fans who have tried to meet them. Would agree,

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Speaker 1: I don't even care about other people in the business. Say,

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Speaker 1: our fans know what we're about, and that's all that

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Speaker 1: matters to me. Yeah, you know again this is this

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Speaker 1: is fascinating to me. Don tie it back to like

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Speaker 1: what I said earlier about just what America was like

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Speaker 1: at this time, because again I think that it was

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Speaker 1: this very decading period. It was a very decadent period

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Speaker 1: in the music business where I think is like the

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Speaker 1: peak year of record sales of all time, you know,

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Speaker 1: and this was like right as napster was starting to

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Speaker 1: come in, but like not enough people were using it yet,

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Speaker 1: so there were still like a lot of teenagers out

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Speaker 1: there buying records. And because it was this sort of

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Speaker 1: again decadent, you know, even like vapid time, you end

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Speaker 1: up having what to me, this sort of has like

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Speaker 1: a moral component to it, which is a weird thing

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Speaker 1: to say in reference to these two bands because they're

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Speaker 1: both so shitty. But I do feel like in a

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Speaker 1: way fred Durst is like posies seeing himself as like

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Speaker 1: like like if this were like an eighties movie, like

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Speaker 1: he would be like the slobs and create would be

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Speaker 1: the snobs, you know, like he's like the John Belushi

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Speaker 1: and like the and Creed are like the blonde like

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Speaker 1: fraternity guys. And you know, he's trying, I think, maybe

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Speaker 1: in his own way, like wave this sort of populist

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Speaker 1: flag for like the downtrodden or the people that are

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Speaker 1: looked down upon, which again is like a weird thing

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Speaker 1: to say in the context of this ravelry because they're

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Speaker 1: both such dirt bag bands, right. I just have no

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Speaker 1: idea what he's basing that on too, though, Like especially

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Speaker 1: if Scott is you know, I know, and he said

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Speaker 1: he said thing, but like Scott's tell the truth, he's

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Speaker 1: never even really met him, then, Like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: And I've never really heard of all the things I've

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Speaker 1: heard about Scott Stapp personally in his music, I've never

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Speaker 1: heard anything about him being addict to fans though. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think again, I think it was Creed's image that

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Speaker 1: was again, like you you watched their videos and the

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Speaker 1: lead singers holding his arms to the sky and being

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Speaker 1: lifted and you know, I haven't seen the video for

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Speaker 1: a long time, but I think that video ends with

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Speaker 1: Scott Stapp in the arms of like a crying Jesus

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Speaker 1: Christ who is creating him like a newborn baby. I

389
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,199
Speaker 1: could be mistaken, I could be exaggerating that, but I

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Speaker 1: mean that's the vibe of that video. Of course, it's

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Speaker 1: possible that I am like totally over analyzing this and

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Speaker 1: this is just a pissing match because Fredericks was mad

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Speaker 1: that they weren't head ending the k Rock Dysfunctional Family Christmas.

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Speaker 1: That is always a possibility here. But I mean again,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, uh, some sympathy to to fred Durst

396
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Speaker 1: in this revelry. And it is interesting too because like

397
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Speaker 1: you feel like, Okay, this is sort of like a

398
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Speaker 1: small thing and it could have ended just right here,

399
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Speaker 1: but then like, didn't Scott Step end up perpetuating it? Right?

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Speaker 1: This is inexcusable. This is you know, I've actually been

401
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 1: defending Creed probably a lot more than i'd like throughout

402
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Speaker 1: this episode so far. But yeah, you've taken your you're

403
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 1: like the defense attorney for Scott step. I know, I

404
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 1: don't know how that happened. I know we're both like

405
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 1: in a twilight zone of of filth and scumbaggery in

406
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Speaker 1: this episode. This is bad. This is inexcusable. This is

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Speaker 1: part of my plea deal bargain for Scott, I will

408
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 1: admit that he did do the following. He perpetuates this

409
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: argument between himself and fred Durst. This is about a

410
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Speaker 1: month after the Dysfunctional Family Picnic incident goes down and

411
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,159
Speaker 1: um Creed calls fred Durst to task for how he

412
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Speaker 1: handled a young group called tap Root later of of

413
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Speaker 1: poem fame. I don't know anything beyond poem. Am I

414
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Speaker 1: missing anything with tap Root? Anything good? You know? I

415
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm gonna be honest. I could you

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00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: Your knowledge of poem is like way more than my

417
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,400
Speaker 1: knowledge of tap Root. Okay, that's that's good. Sorry, Sorry,

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00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 1: Sorry all the tap Root heads out there. I'll dig

419
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 1: into the back catalog after this episode. So fred Durst

420
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Speaker 1: does this up and coming van tap Root Dirty. This

421
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 1: is during the period when Fred Durst, which I didn't realize,

422
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 1: was a VP for Interscope. You know, in addition to

423
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: his many limp biscuit duties, he was also I guess

424
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 1: doing A and R for Interscope. Who knew? So he's

425
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Speaker 1: one of the many head owners trying to sign tap

426
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 1: Root and the band went another direction, I guess, apparently

427
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,400
Speaker 1: because they hadn't heard from Fred in a while and

428
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: that he was too busy fighting with Creed presumably. So

429
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 1: they go off and they signed with Atlantic. They're real

430
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 1: happy they've got a major label deal. And then the

431
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 1: lead singer, this guy called Steve Richard, comes home and

432
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,119
Speaker 1: he's got a message on his answering machine and he

433
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: plays it and I like to read almost in full

434
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 1: because it's it's it sounds like something that would be

435
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 1: from like good Fellows. It's it's really incredible. Okay, So

436
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: it's awesome. It's it's like borderline psychopathic. Oh yeah, I

437
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: mean it's like a bad screenwriter. It's amazing. Yeah. I

438
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: don't think it's even borderline. I think like fred Durst

439
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: lost his damn mind right before he left this message. Okay,

440
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: so this is from Fred Durst leaving it on the

441
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 1: voicemail of a singer who signed with somebody else and

442
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 1: not him. Steve fred Durst, Hey man, you fucked up.

443
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 1: You don't ever bite the hand that feeds in this business, bro,

444
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 1: And you're fucking manager. So called guy is a fucking idiot,

445
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 1: a loser, motherfucker going nowhere. You have just chosen that path.

446
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: I took you under my wing, brought you to my

447
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: house fucking talked about your ass on the radio. Impressed

448
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: and you embarrassed me and the Interscope family. How am

449
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: I doing? I just say, like, you read that so chipper,

450
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: You're like, hey fred Durst, hey man, you fucked up.

451
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: It's like, wow, this fred Durst is like he sounds

452
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: pretty chipper for that too. I was like, really going

453
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: for it. I just imagined him being like Steve fred Durst,

454
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: hey man, he fucked up. You don't know every bite

455
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 1: the hand that deeds. The business bro like more kind

456
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: of surfer like drawn out and he's probably like superstoned too.

457
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: I'm guessing like he had smoked some bowls or like

458
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: done some lines before this phone call, because this, again,

459
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: it seems unhinged and maybe like a bit of a

460
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: drunk dial Oh yeah, I mean he sounds like a

461
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: post off mafio. So he's saying that now you've got

462
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: enemies and you're sucking yourself already, don't fucking show up

463
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: at my show because if you do, you're gonna get fucked.

464
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,959
Speaker 1: You and your fucking punk ass. You're a fucking dumb motherfucker.

465
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: You're learning right now exactly how to ruin your career.

466
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: Before it gets started, all of the luck brother, fuck

467
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: you clip, oh man good, you know, and really it's

468
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: like Worre's tap Root now you know. Again, as Fred

469
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: durst lawyer point out out that tap Root, other than poem,

470
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: apparently whatever the hell that song is, you know, no

471
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: one remembers tap Root now. Uh. And you know, maybe

472
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: if you hadn't across Fred Durst and caused them to

473
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: make this psychotic phone call to your house, you'd be

474
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: playing stadiums right now. It's probably fair to say that

475
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: more people remember this voicemail than they do tap Rood

476
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: song because it starts making the rounds on like early

477
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: file sharing services. And Creed obviously have nothing to do

478
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: with this, but they decided to point out the fact

479
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: that Fred has clearly not read the Anger Management Manual

480
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: that they so generously gifted to him. So Creed puts

481
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: out this, they really committed to that bit, the Anger

482
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: Management Manual bit. You know. It's like it's like we, okay,

483
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: we have the book, we're gonna send it to you

484
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna do a call back the next

485
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: time that you may explain a scene of yourself in public.

486
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 1: So like this is like a recurring bit that they

487
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: and I gotta say, like, Okay, I've been defending Fred Durst.

488
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: I will say in this instance, good on you, Creed.

489
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: That was a good call back to your joke. I

490
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: feel like the anger management think kind of fell flat

491
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: at first, but this was a good call back to it.

492
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: Good call back. But I don't know, I always kind

493
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: of saw it was kind of a goody goody move,

494
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 1: like fingerpoint, like look at what they did? Aren't they bad?

495
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: How could they do that? We will not stand for

496
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: these these mafioso tactics in the industries. Vulgar comments. You know,

497
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: he's worn out his welcome as an artistic spokesperson for

498
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: our industry. Fred's vulgar comments and violent threats are totally

499
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: indicative of a mobster mentality that this industry has tried

500
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: to rid itself of in recent years. It's just this

501
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: like kind of pearl clutching statement that they put out,

502
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: which I don't know, it's kind of like, you don't

503
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: need to get involved with that. I think it's hilarious

504
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: that they referred to Fred Durst as an artist spokesman

505
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: for our industry. You know, like that that Fred Durst

506
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: is like this statesman that all everyone was looking toward

507
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: for moral guidance. And it's like, oh wait, fred Durst

508
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: like made a scene of himself on someone's answering machine.

509
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: This is totally made us rethink all of the faith

510
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: that we put into Fred Durst as a as a

511
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: rock solid representative of our industry. You know, Like the

512
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: great thing about this rivalry is that whenever anyone opens

513
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 1: their mouth, they make themselves look like even more stupid

514
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: than the person that they're criticizing. Like it's the most

515
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: self defeating rivalry maybe that we've talked about yet. Oh yeah,

516
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: it's amazing. And the best part of the creed you know,

517
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: Like Nana Na statement they put out is that they

518
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: signed off by re upping their ask for a charity

519
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: boxing match, which is the charity boxing match. Oh my god,

520
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: I mean I wish I'd seen that go down. That

521
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: would have been incredible. Well, in spoiler alert, it didn't

522
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: happen because, as we said before, unless you're challenging Danny

523
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: Bindy Duchy to a fight, these things never happen. Uh.

524
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: It's always about I think one person backing down, Like

525
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: if you're going to have like like one person is

526
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: going to like really push the charity boxing match, and

527
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: maybe both people are going to be into it for

528
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: a while, but like you want to be the one

529
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: that caves, because you can always be like, well, I

530
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: would have done it. If they would have done it,

531
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: I would have done it. But in this instance, fred

532
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: Durst was the one that backed off, and he made

533
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: a statement. He said Creed should take a hint and

534
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: spend more time sending autographs than writing about me. The

535
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: boxing match sounds like fun, but I'd rather not resort

536
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: to violence, since I'm busy doing a free tour. And

537
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: by the way, that was the tour that Olympus get,

538
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: did I think it was in two thousand for it

539
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: was the Napster tour. So in this instance, I guess

540
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: fred Durst was saying that I am an artist spokesman

541
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: for the community because I'm doing free tours for people.

542
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: I am the Gandhi of New Metal, if you will,

543
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: and I don't resort to violence. I'm a non violent man.

544
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: So he's trying to take the high road while also

545
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: backing off from the charity boxing idea. All right hand,

546
00:26:53,040 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more rivals. The next thing

547
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: that happens in this rivalry, and I think this is

548
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: like somewhat speculation. I don't know if it's ever actually

549
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: been confirmed, if this is a response to what was

550
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 1: going on, or if we're just reading too much into it.

551
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: But like Creed put out their album Weathered in two

552
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: thousand one, kind of to say, by the way that

553
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: like calling a Creed album weathered, it's uh, it's very

554
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: self aware, uh, you know, because I feel like if

555
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: you listen to Creed for too long, like your ears

556
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: become weathered, you know, like they become very beaten down

557
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: and aged, and uh, it's just not a great situation.

558
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: One of the big songs from this record, I guess

559
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: it's like a I don't think it was a single,

560
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: it was like a It was a deep cut though

561
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: that a lot of people liked. It's a song called Bullets.

562
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Do you know this song Bullets? Yeah, that's a that's

563
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: a for Creed. That's a heavy track. That's heavy. Baby,

564
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: it's a heavy piece of shit. But it's a heavy song. Um.

565
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: And there's a line in the song that I think

566
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: it's hilarious and I think it's maybe a reference to

567
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: Fred Durst where he says at least looking at me

568
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: when you shoot a bullet through my head, and which

569
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: I think is a reference to like, you know, Fred

570
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: Durst going on stage and saying all this stuff about

571
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: Creed at the Dysfunctional Family picnic um, you know, the

572
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, in the Summer of of two thousand. I

573
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: just think it's hilarious though that the conceit of the

574
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: song is that it's better to shoot someone in the

575
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: head if you look at them in the eyes. It's like, Hey,

576
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: if you're gonna shoot me, do the honorable thing and

577
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: look at me in the face. It's like, how about

578
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: just don't shoot me? Like I feel like any bullet

579
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: to the head from somebody is inherently dishonorable, Like if

580
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: you're going to kill me, uh, you know, this is

581
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: not a lot of honor in that. So, like, if

582
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: you get the chance to talk to somebody before they

583
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: shoot you at the first thing you should probably say

584
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: is maybe don't shoot me. I agree, that's that's a

585
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: that's a good yeah. Or else I would say, you know,

586
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: shoot me in the back of the head. So I

587
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: don't know it's coming, you know, I'd rather just be

588
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: on my way having a good day. And then all

589
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm dead, you know, like I don't

590
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: realize the bullets coming. I feel like that's the better

591
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: way to go. So like if I would to write bullets,

592
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: I would say shoot me in the back of the head, please,

593
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,239
Speaker 1: I would that would be the sensitive thing to do,

594
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: Like that would be my lyric. But apparently Scott Step

595
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: and I disagree on this. So anyway, that seems to

596
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: be another instance of Scott step perpetuating this very dumb feud,

597
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: which again, again I choose to believe it's about Fred

598
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: and I guess because obviously this feud was still sort

599
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: of in the news when when they released Weathered, it

600
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: was only a year after the k Rock Dysfunctional Family picnic.

601
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: He's asked about Weathered, and Fred says it's really a

602
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: good album. He takes it really well. In fact, he's

603
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: talking to MTV dot Com. He says, a great record,

604
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: no filler. It's like, these guys know how to write songs.

605
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: They know how to write songs, so the melody and

606
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: the words and the things, you just wake up the

607
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: next morning and you're singing it. So Fred Durrist is

608
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: walking around his house singing Creed songs, which I really

609
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: like that and all those things are wrong, by the way,

610
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: all those things you just said are wrong. It's not

611
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,479
Speaker 1: a great record. There's tons of filler. They don't know

612
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: how to write songs. There's some melody, but not enough.

613
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: And if you sing the songs, you hate yourself because

614
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: you are mad that there are Creed songs in your head.

615
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,239
Speaker 1: It's like you're in a few dude, like make fun

616
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: of their record, make fun of their music. He called

617
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: My Sacrifice the biggest song of the year. There are

618
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: many frustrating things about this ravity, but that is the

619
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: single most frustrating thing that like Fred Durst, did not

620
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: make fun of their music. It's like, if you are

621
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: going to fight Creed, you have so much great material there.

622
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: And we've already made fun of them in this episode,

623
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 1: and not even as much as we should. I mean,

624
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: I made fun of the video for Higher. We haven't

625
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: even talked about the song with Arms Wide open. You

626
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: know they're big power ballad. I remember on some show.

627
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't think it was like the MTV Video Music

628
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Awards or it was the Grammys. Scott Steps sang that

629
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: song like while holding his baby on stage, like did

630
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: you see that performance. Oh my god, I blocked it

631
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: out until just this moment. Holy shit, I forgot about that,

632
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: just singing this like incredibly modlin sentimental. Uh well, a

633
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: good point. I don't know. Maybe it was like they

634
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: rented a baby because it's like, hey, we need a

635
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: prop for this like pathetic power ballad that dullards are

636
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: gonna like get into and cry when they hear this song,

637
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: and they're gonna like like, oh, he's holding a baby.

638
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: That's a good point. He probably kidnapped that baby. Probably know. Yeah,

639
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kidnapped that baby, held it for ransom just

640
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: for that performance. But anyway, getting back to the point,

641
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: it's like whatever fred Durst has asked about Creed, he's

642
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: just talking about them like they're Led Zeppelin or something. Yeah,

643
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: he's very well. You see, this is a couple of

644
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: months after nine eleven, and he goes on to say,

645
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: you know what, anything that went on between us water

646
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: and the bridge, you know what, I really I don't

647
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: want to put any more negativity out in the world.

648
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: I said what I said. I had an opinion. He said,

649
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: I had an opinion. They're like assholes. Everybody has one,

650
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: which is uh, classic fred Durst right there. Yeah, it's

651
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: spoken like a true artist spokesman for the entertainment industry

652
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: right there, like a true paragon of the industry. And

653
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: and and then Creed backed off too, And what I

654
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: think it is hilarious. I mean, there's many hilarious things here,

655
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: but like as a as a peace offering to Limpiscuit Creed.

656
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,959
Speaker 1: I don't know if they actually did this, but they

657
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: considered taking Puddle of Mud on the road as an

658
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: opening act because Puddle of Mud was like a protege

659
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: of fred Durst, which again, that's like another thing you

660
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 1: could nail fred Durst for right there, Puddle of Mud. Like,

661
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: don't get me started on Puddle of Mud. I mean,

662
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: they're worse than either one of these bands as far

663
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, But I just thought it was again

664
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: that's like another instance of like whoever is talking in

665
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: this rivalry totally undermining themselves, like by their own idiocy,

666
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: you know that, Like Creed is trying to make amends,

667
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: and their peace offering is We're gonna tour with this

668
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: incredibly shitty band that, like fred Durst took under his wing.

669
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: They should have really toured a tap root. That really

670
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: would have been the best way to end this feud.

671
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, dude, a Creed put mud tap root

672
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: triple bill. Are you kidding? That's like butt rock Heaven

673
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: right there. So the feud is essentially over. But before

674
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: we move on, I really want to talk about this

675
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: hypothetical charity boxing match a little bit more like I

676
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: think I would have won that. Well, okay, so you

677
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: have Scott Stapp, who I think at that time was

678
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: probably in better shape than Fred Durst. When you say,

679
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: I mean he'd always wear those like white tank tops

680
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: that showed off his arms. Oh yeah, he had some guns, absolutely.

681
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: I mean just check the arms. It's probably they're probably

682
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: huge because he was always like spreading them out. It's

683
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: probably like exercise. I mean, it's like bowlers of those

684
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: huge arms. It's probably like that. So yeah, and also,

685
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: as we know, I mean like from the Footsteps poem

686
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: that he had Jesus walking alongside of him wherever he went,

687
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: So like Jesus was his wingman who could assist on

688
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: kicking anyone's ass if Scott Stapped got into a fight

689
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: Fred Durst, you know, in comparison, I mean, I don't

690
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: know what he would be like as a fighter. I

691
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: don't know if he's ever taken any martial arts or anything.

692
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: My assumption is that he would be like a dirty fighter,

693
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, like probably wouldn't fight fair. Oh yeah, well

694
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: I know exactly how it would be as a fighter,

695
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: because have you ever played the Fight Club video game?

696
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: He is a character in the Fight Club video game. What. Yeah,

697
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know there was such a thing. I mean,

698
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: he was terrible and I don't even remember. Like one

699
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: of my friends had to remember playing it and was like, okay,

700
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's Tyler Dirton going through, and then all

701
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it was just Fred and you click

702
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: on it and it was Fred Durrist and he had

703
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: like the Red Yankees hat and he was I don't

704
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: know what kind of string I guess what he was

705
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: saying that Tapper was not a lie. He's a powerful

706
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: man who can pull strings and get himself in the

707
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: Fight Club video game, which check it out. It's pretty amazing.

708
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: I don't understand like what the context was for Fred

709
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: Durst to be in the Fight Club universe. You know

710
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: that he was just somehow fighting at Norton all of

711
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: a sudden on a video game. It's very very intrigued

712
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: by that. Um well, anyway, So okay, so you have

713
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: some reconnaissance from the Fight Club video game that suggests

714
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: that Fred Durst might be a good fighter, and we

715
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: also have Scott Staff, who we both seem to agree

716
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: is probably in better shape. I have to say that

717
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: for me, if these two were in a real charity

718
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: boxing match, um, I would probably take Scott's Staff, just

719
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: because I think Scott Staff would probably take it more seriously,

720
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: and you know, I just imagine him doing like the

721
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: Rocky for training regiment, like when you go to Siberia

722
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: and you're like dragging boulders up the mountains, you know,

723
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: Like I think Scott Staff is crazy enough exactly. I

724
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: think he would take it seriously and train and make

725
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: sure that he could like break Fred Durst. I think

726
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: Fred Durst would probably show up with like the red

727
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: ball cap backward, you know, some playboy bunnies, you know,

728
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: having partied all night, and would maybe look at it

729
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: as a joke and then you'd get in the ring

730
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: and realize that there was no joke and that he

731
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: was going to be in big trouble. So that would

732
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: be my prediction, you know, I probably would go with

733
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: Staff too, but I could also see fred Durst. I mean,

734
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: listening to that voicemail lets me think that there's this

735
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: whole other side that he can tap into, that of

736
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: just unrestrained fury. And I could also see fred Dre's

737
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: just binging on training with like a diet of jolt

738
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: soda for days on end until he's just completely wired.

739
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: So I don't know I edged the Staff, but it

740
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: would be close. I think it would go multiple rounds.

741
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: What's interesting about this ravelry to me is, you know,

742
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: again it was short lived, and I think the reason

743
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: why we're looking back on it is again, I feel

744
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: like these two bands signify something not great about the

745
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: late nineties and early two thousand's, but I think something

746
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: important about American culture. I think again, the popularity of

747
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: these bands, I think says something about I think the

748
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 1: boredom of like a country that has too much money

749
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: and too much time on its hands, you know, a

750
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: very decadent, fat, you know, over rich country that's about

751
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: to maybe be taken down a peg, you know, And

752
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: that's what America as you know, like right before nine

753
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: eleven and all the weird things that have happened in

754
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: the last twenty years of the twenty one century. You

755
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: can really see what these two guys specifically to that like,

756
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: after this ravelry, you know, after their their their feud here,

757
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: their careers took ahead, both went down. I think like

758
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: right after this, I mean it was like, I mean,

759
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: like within a year or two. And uh, it's just

760
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: interesting looking back on them because I mean, they seem

761
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: like such products of their time, and you feel like

762
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: these two guys couldn't have existed much longer after this,

763
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, because American culture was changing so much. Thought

764
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: of Creed and Limp Biscuit being sort of like the

765
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: part where American culture the way of crested is such

766
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: a depressing thought for me that I'm having a hard

767
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: time even like contemplating at the end of this episode

768
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: right now. But I mean, but but you think, I mean,

769
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: but like they seem like archetypes of like a rock

770
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: front man that doesn't really exist anymore. Oh yeah, I

771
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: mean I always thought that, you know, that they each

772
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: take on these archetypes of like asshole rockers of the past.

773
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: You know, You've always thought fred Durrist was kind of

774
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: more like Axl Rose with his on stage tantrums, the

775
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: sort of shameless ship talking followed by failure to actually

776
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: fight when invited, and then sort of the ego mania

777
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: to the like you know, no, we're not gonna go

778
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: on stage when it's light out and I'm gonna go

779
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: up storm off stage after six songs and stuff like that.

780
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: So and the metaphor even fits the whole band. Really,

781
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: you've got the departure of wes Borland and after that

782
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: the band just went south. And it's kind of like

783
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: when Izzy left g n R. And you even have

784
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: when Biscuits sort of long gest dating Stampede of the

785
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: Disco Elephants, which I think has been in development hell

786
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: for like eight years now. They've been promising that album

787
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: something like that. Uh is kind of like their Chinese Democracy,

788
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: except no one cares about that album. That's a difference.

789
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: Like people were curious to hear Chinese Democracy. I'm not

790
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: hearing a lot of Like there's no like online petitions

791
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: about release Stampede of the Disco Elephants. You know, we

792
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: must hear this album. I mean maybe there's like you know,

793
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: a dozen people in Florida or something I want to

794
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: hear that curious, but this album, it's like eight years

795
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: or ten years in the making. I gotta say at

796
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 1: that point, I am curious. I mean, we're curious because

797
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: we're lunatics, you know, But I feel like the average

798
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: sane person is not going to care about that record.

799
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: But we'll see. And Scott Staff always struck me as

800
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: kind of like you know, fellow Floridian Jim Morrison, sort

801
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: of this boozy, boorish brawler with the Messiah complex and

802
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: delusions of self righteous spiritual advancement. Yeah. I mean, it's

803
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: worth noting obviously that's Scott Staffed, like Jim Morrison, struggled

804
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: with substance abuse and mentally almost for many years, and

805
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: thankfully he's moved beyond that now. But and it took

806
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: a huge toll on his not only his health but

807
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: his public image. And as you said, the two thousands

808
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: for both these guys not a pretty time. Yeah, you know,

809
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: I think when you know, we look at both of

810
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: these guys and there are since the early auts, to me,

811
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: like Scott Staff seems to have had a harder go

812
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, you know, we'll talk about Fred

813
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: Durst here in a minute, but you know, you mentioned

814
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: who struggles like with alcohol abuse and and and not illness.

815
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: And you know, we've been having some fun with Scott staff.

816
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to make like too much light of

817
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: that stuff, though, because it does seem like it's been

818
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: a serious problem with him, you know, even when it's

819
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: come up in context that are kind of funny, like

820
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: I mean the two thousand two story, for instance, like

821
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: where a concert they actually got sued, Yeah, like where

822
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: they got sued by their own fans because like the

823
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: show was so terrible, which I don't think that's ever

824
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: happened before, Like where fans actually came together in a

825
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: class action lawsuit to sue a band for sucking. Like

826
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: you know, not even the shittiest bands in the world

827
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: have had that happened to them, but it happened to

828
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: create And the reason why they weren't very good that

829
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: night had a lot to do with Scott stab and

830
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: it it seems like he was going through something that night,

831
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: if he was under the influence of like drugs or alcohol,

832
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: or if he was maybe having just a hard time

833
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: that night, but it seems like he was. He was

834
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: pretty off, and I think that case ended up getting dismissed, right,

835
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. I don't think that those fans

836
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: actually one that they did a decision based on a

837
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: bunch of Chicago Cubs fans tried to sue the Cubs

838
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: for having a terrible season, and so that was and

839
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: and they lost. So that was the precedent set, and

840
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: I think that they threw the case judge through the

841
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: case out based on the Chicago Cubs ruling. So the

842
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: creative and put on the same you know, legal standard

843
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: as the two thousand two are of Chicago Cubs, which

844
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 1: is probably a club you don't want to be. That's sad,

845
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: that's tough. And then there was another thing that happened.

846
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: This was in two thousand five, and this is like,

847
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: I guess, like a sub rivalry that will that we

848
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: could talk about in this episode, which was between Creed

849
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: and three eleven because uh, like Scott Staff apparently was

850
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: in a bar like a hotel bar with the members

851
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: of the rap rock collective three eleven, and apparently Scott

852
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: step was not a fan of three eleven because he

853
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: was like heckling these guys and uh apparently he was

854
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: like throwing up like watted up uh napkins at them

855
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,720
Speaker 1: and just being obnoxious and like one of the guys

856
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: in three eleven said that Scott Step was actually like

857
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: he was pounding shots and then slamming them on the

858
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: bar and like shattering the shot glass like everywhere, Like

859
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: that's how hard he was doing it, which is an

860
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: incredible mental image, you know, just a magic Scott Step

861
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: slamming down shot glasses and breaking them. But like he

862
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: was heckling the band and and baiting them, and he

863
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: actually ended up taking a swing at one of them.

864
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: And I think he also consulted like one of their wives,

865
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: like just acting like very borishly in this hotel again

866
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: attacking the rap rock collective three eleven. I mean, it

867
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: just gets weirder and weirder with him. It's like he's

868
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: going He's like he's running through like every rap rock

869
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: band in the world. Yeah, feuds with Oh yeah. The

870
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: worst part about that was one of the guys that

871
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: just had surgery and his stitch is ripped open in

872
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: the middle of us. It was just blood everywhere, shot

873
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: glass fragments, bits of waded up napkins, and he's thrown

874
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: off them. Yeah, that's a mess. That's a mess. Amber

875
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: playing somewhere so in two thousand six. You know, Scott

876
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: Snappy's trying to get his life back on track, and

877
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, he gets married to a former beauty pageant contestant.

878
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: You feel like, oh, that's great. You know, that's a

879
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: great thing for him. Hopefully he's going to settle down

880
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: and and and and maybe get away from the rock

881
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: and roll life. But then he gets arrested the next

882
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: day for trying to board a plane in Hawaii while drunk,

883
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: which again, you know, we'll say I think most people

884
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: board planes the Hawaii when they're drunk. I mean, like,

885
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: if you're going to Hawaii, it's pretty festive occasion. You know,

886
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, maybe you're just you know, trying to party

887
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: and maybe you're nervous about flying. And you know, that's

888
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: not a totally unique situation, but you feel like he

889
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: was probably being belligerent in some way that caused him

890
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: to get arrested. So that's sad. And then that same year,

891
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: he's caught on a sex tape with Kid Rock and

892
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: like multiple women. And I think this was like filmed

893
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: like several years earlier, like in the late nineties, so

894
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: it's not like he was cheating on his his beauty

895
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: pageant life, but that's an embarrassing thing that goes on

896
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: and then he ends up. I think by this time

897
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: was Creed broken up again. Yeah, Creed broke up in

898
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: in two thousand four, and that Chicago The Family Chicago

899
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: show they were sued for sucking was not a good

900
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: thing for the band for many reasons. But Mark Tremonti's

901
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: family was I guess in the crowd that day too,

902
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 1: and so that kind of that kind of piste him off.

903
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: And then Scott stopped stopped doing sound checks to try

904
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: to like kind of save his voice. And that had

905
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: been where the band kind of trying to make up

906
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: bits of songs on the spot, and that was really

907
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: a huge component of their creative process. So when he

908
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,919
Speaker 1: started sitting that out, I guess Mark Tremonti later would

909
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 1: say that was kind of when we stopped making music together.

910
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: Was because he wasn't there. And there were other things too.

911
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure the substances played a huge role in just

912
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: the communication breakdown. But I think in two thousand four

913
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: they officially broke up. But then I think all the

914
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: other members got back together and formed another band without him,

915
00:44:55,640 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 1: called alter Bridge, which is that's not with Kennedy. Yeah, exactly,

916
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: they're just like, we gotta get away from this guy.

917
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: Although they did get back together with him again in

918
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, Cree put out that reunion record, Full Circle,

919
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: which I think sold pretty well and it debuted pretty

920
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: high on the charts. But I mean, Creed has not

921
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: been the band that they were at their peak. And again,

922
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 1: like Creed was an absurdly popular band for a long time,

923
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: I think people forget that or they want to forget it.

924
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: But you know, they've definitely fallen down from a pretty

925
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: high peak in their career. So yeah, it's been pretty

926
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: sad for Creed, you know, in the time since they

927
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: were at their peak and and and feuding with Limp

928
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: Biscuit and of course Limp Biscuit, I mean, they've gone

929
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: downhill as well, pretty dramatically. Oh yeah, I mean have

930
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: you seen the two thousand MTV Video Music Awards duet

931
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: between Fred and Christina Aguilera. Oh yeah, it was brilliant

932
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: being sarcastic, it was awful. It was terrible. And also

933
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: I don't really understand what he was doing there because

934
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: he really wasn't involved in it, and he was asked

935
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: about it at the time he said I want the girl,

936
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: that's it, which is not a very gallant thing for

937
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: fred Durst to say. But this is this is sort

938
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: of a theme with him. Piste off Christina goes to

939
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: the press and said, you wish you got some nookie

940
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: from it. He got no NOOKI that did not happen.

941
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: It's some really crazy stuff that people want to insinuate

942
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 1: and people want to say it, and it's hurtful. So

943
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: that's not good. You don't you don't take a shot

944
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,959
Speaker 1: at Christina Aguilera and miss that's that's not very nice,

945
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: and it gets worse. Yeah, didn't do the same thing

946
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 1: with Britney Spears, didn't He like reclaimed that he had

947
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: like slept with with Brittany oh times a thousand. Yeah,

948
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: I got this one. This is just that was just

949
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: a preamble with Christina for for the main event, which

950
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: is the Britney Spears controversy. He's I guess writing I

951
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: think three songs for her for for what was gonna

952
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: be in the zone in two thousand three. And I

953
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: would give anything to hear Britney Spears singing Fred Durst song.

954
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: I guess all it exists are his own demos, but um,

955
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: he would claim that they had a fairly brief affair,

956
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: and he actually went on his own band's blog and

957
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 1: to basically tell fans, you know, I never would of

958
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: fun I felt this way, and I never thought I

959
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: would have felt this way about Britney Spears. You guys,

960
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: be nice to work because I guess some fans were

961
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, ripping her for I don't

962
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: know it was maybe they thought it was bad for

963
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: his image to be associating with this like pop person

964
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: who knows. Uh, And so he defends her on his

965
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: blog and says that how much she means to him

966
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: and everything. Brittney goes on TRL and is kind of like, what, no,

967
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's really sweet. That's a direct quote.

968
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: He's really sweet, which is like the most friend zone

969
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: thing ever. But he's not my type. Fred apparently after

970
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: this TRL thing happened, withdrew his songs for consideration from

971
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: the in the zone. Uh. He goes on Howard Stern

972
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: and he swears on the life of his son's baby

973
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: Blue Eyes that they really did have a fling, and

974
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: Britney's team puts out a statement says, you know, this

975
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: is really sad. He's decided to make up stories and

976
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 1: this whole situation feels really junior high, so Bomber he's

977
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: just been friends zoned publicly by Britney Spears. And he

978
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: did this again when he does the cover of Behind

979
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: Blue Eyes with Halle Berry that he directed, and he said,

980
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: I guess they kissed on screen, and he later tried

981
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: to make it seem like they had an affair of

982
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: there too, and when Hallie Berry was asked about it,

983
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: she literally just laughed. Yeah, it's like pretty sad, Like

984
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 1: he's in the stage of his career, like where he's

985
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: like claiming all these relationships with like famous women and

986
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: Limp Biscuit. I mean, they were really considered a joke.

987
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: I think by this time in their career they attempted

988
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: a couple of different comebacks. There was that come back

989
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: a two thousand and five the record The Unquestionable Truth

990
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: Part One, which I think was a very optimistic title.

991
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: There was like put Apart one. Yeah, there was no

992
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: part two. Um, you know, I think that record sold

993
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: like nine copies in its first week, which, now if

994
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: any band sold that much, I mean that would be

995
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: like a great first week. But like in two thousand five,

996
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: like that was not very good. And it was only

997
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: five years after like Limpiscuit was selling like a million

998
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: records a week, you know, so like their popularity had

999
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: just plummeted by that point. And then they tried to

1000
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: get in two thousand nine to come back, and I

1001
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: think they put a record called gold Cobra in two

1002
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, which I remember hearing once because I

1003
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: was just sort of morbidly curious about it, and uh, yeah,

1004
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 1: I mean they were not at their peak at that point.

1005
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: And again, I think when you look at both of

1006
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: these bands, it just underlines how they really seem to

1007
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: belong in their moment, and that once you took them

1008
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: out of that like four or five years stretch in

1009
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: like the late nineties and early two thousand's, like they

1010
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: just did not fit in. Like it was just something

1011
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: that was not going to work. It was like America

1012
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 1: had changed. We weren't in that decadent board place anymore.

1013
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: You know. By the end of the odds, it was

1014
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: like a much different world. Uh and uh it was

1015
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: like I think people wanted to leave these bands in

1016
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 1: the past. We're gonna take a quick break to get

1017
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor before we get to more rivals.

1018
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: So now the part of the episode that I've been

1019
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: dreading this entire time, the pro case for both. Yeah,

1020
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: you know we've we've both have joked about being like

1021
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: defense lawyers for uh, you know, Scott Stappen, Fred Durst.

1022
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: I've been defending Fred Durst. You've been defending Scott's staff.

1023
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 1: So why don't you give the pro creed side first.

1024
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: I just gotta say, I gotta give them a slight

1025
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: edge for having better songwriting chops and Mark Tremonti's guitar playing,

1026
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: and you know, although it's definitely not my favorite, Scott's

1027
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: stabs voice has a power that's undeniable. I hate that.

1028
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: I just said that on Jesus Christ, and I will

1029
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: say I actually experienced the power of Scott Stabb's voice

1030
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: at very close range. My My first job was I

1031
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: was working at VH one on their website and they

1032
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: had a morning show for a couple of years. And

1033
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: the whole stick with it was that it was just

1034
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: like filmed on the floor, like it was. It was

1035
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 1: intentionally super low budget, although I'm sure it was also

1036
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: actually low budget and they didn't have green rooms or anything.

1037
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: So I came into my little cubicle one morning and

1038
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: Scott Stapp was just standing in there singing higher. I

1039
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: can't do a Scott st that voice, but singing the

1040
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: word higher over and over and over again as I'm

1041
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: like trying to just type of my little old Dell computer.

1042
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: So I gotta say, having Scott Stapp behind you singing

1043
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: the word higher for probably five ten minutes, it was powerful.

1044
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: So you know what, for that reason alone, it was unforgettable.

1045
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, Scott Stapp powerful voice. There you go.

1046
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 1: Oh man, See, I really want one of our listeners

1047
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: to like take just a sound bite of Jordan's saying,

1048
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 1: Scott s Tapp has a power that's undeniable. And if

1049
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: we could make that a pull quote that is applied

1050
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: to Creed and it's also attributed to Jordan's for the

1051
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: rest of his life, I would love that Creed. Honestly,

1052
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: I pride myself on being empathetic to tow bands, to

1053
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: like trying to understand what can be good about them.

1054
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: I have a hard time with Creed. I think that

1055
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: they are a very obnoxious, bombastic, annoying band. I will

1056
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: say I have interviewed Mark Tremonti and he was a

1057
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: nice guy. He's seem like a smart guy. I've heard

1058
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: other people say that about him, like when they've interacted

1059
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: with him, that Mark is a good dude. I have

1060
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: friends who played guitar who have said that Mark Tremonti,

1061
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: in their opinion, is a good guitar player. I will

1062
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: also take them at their word for that. But in

1063
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: terms of my own personal opinion, I think Creed is awful.

1064
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: I think they are one of the worst bands of

1065
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 1: like the last thirty years. I can't stand them, so

1066
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: that is the best I can do in terms of

1067
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,479
Speaker 1: making a pro case for Creed going to the Olympiscuit side,

1068
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: Limpiscuit is not a great band. However, I will say

1069
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: again that if if you have a choice between a

1070
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: band that takes themselves way too seriously and has no

1071
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: right to take themselves seriously because they're just a ridiculous,

1072
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: stupid band, which I think Creed is, and you have

1073
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: a band that is stupid, but they own their stupidity

1074
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: and they're not trying to present themselves as being smart

1075
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: or profound. They're just like a dumb party band. I'm

1076
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 1: gonna take the Dumb Party Band, because I guess I

1077
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: value self awareness and I think Limp Biscuit is more

1078
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: self aware. And I think Fred Durston the comments that

1079
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: he made about Scott Staff, the criticisms that he made

1080
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: from that k Rock incident, as minor as that is,

1081
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: I think that he was in the right in that instance.

1082
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: I'll also say that there are a couple Limp Biscuit songs,

1083
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: and this, by the way, is the part of the

1084
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: episode where if someone wants to take a sound bite

1085
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: of me saying nice things about Limp Biscuit, this is

1086
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: the part you want to take a sound bite of.

1087
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: I think that there are some Limp Biscuit songs that

1088
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 1: have held up pretty well and that I enjoy listening

1089
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: to if they happen to come up on a Spotify shuffle,

1090
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: Nookie my Way, and break stuff. I will defend those

1091
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: three songs as being pretty good songs, and I think

1092
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: that they are signifiers of an era that, uh in

1093
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: a way, I have nostalgia for, because it seems like

1094
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: it was a simpler time in a lot of ways.

1095
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: Talking about the late nineties, it also seems like it

1096
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: was a very corrupt time period as well. Um, but

1097
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: I think olymp Biscuit, Uh, they define that period with

1098
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: those songs. So that's my defensive Olympiscuit. Do you have

1099
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: anything nice to say about limp Biscuit. I I have

1100
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: a really hard time with this section because I just

1101
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: I hate rap rock sonically. I think specifically Fred's rhymes

1102
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: are are terrible. I find his bottomless rage towards both

1103
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: the man and also women in general off putting and

1104
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: even slightly poisonous. I think his lyrics are underpentently violent

1105
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: and sometimes homophobic and misogynistic. I think he's tapping into

1106
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: the alienation that a lot of teenage boys feel and

1107
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: then transmuting it into violence, and it reminds me of

1108
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: like Eminem Slim Shady Care, but without the artistry or satire.

1109
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: I think it's the worst part of the pro side, George,

1110
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 1: this is the pro side, man. I don't know. I mean,

1111
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: maybe this is a gross generalization. I haven't like sat

1112
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: down and listened to the discography front to back in

1113
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: a while, but you know, I view it as like

1114
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: droop music, like from a clockwork Orange. I just thinking

1115
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 1: of it as like nihilistic violence, and I Google, I

1116
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: really tried to research the section. I actually googled why

1117
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: do people like fred Durst? And Google responded with do

1118
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: you mean why do you why do people hate fred Durst?

1119
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: And and in their defense, and this is where I

1120
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: go into the pro thing, most people on Google answered

1121
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: why do we hate fred Durst? Because they cite the

1122
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 1: infamous Woodstock ninety nine riots, for which I think they

1123
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: were unfairly blamed. And I know you have a lot

1124
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: to say on this. You've done a whole podcast series

1125
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: on one Stock ninety nine. But the fires that everyone

1126
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: sort of sees in their mind when they're thinking of

1127
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: wood Stuck ninety and I didn't even go down the

1128
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 1: same day that that fred Durst performed. So that's gonna

1129
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: be the crux of my pro Olympiscuit argument is that

1130
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be held responsible for the woods Stock now nine.

1131
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: Hell's came there, There we go. I said a nice

1132
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 1: thing about Limp Biscuit, And look he he's also directed movies.

1133
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: Fred Drson Scott step hasn't directed any movies he's I

1134
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: don't think they're any good. He directed that John Travolta movie,

1135
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: The Fanatic. Have you seen that? Oh my god, it's funny.

1136
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: So I mean, and the poster is so great too,

1137
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: because it looks like, you know, alternate cover art for

1138
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: chocolate Starfish and hot dog flavored Water. It's like, really creepy.

1139
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: He turns John Travolta into like this creeptastic demon. It's great.

1140
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: So when we look at these two bands together, first

1141
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: of all, I'm glad that they feuded, because I think

1142
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: it's hilarious that these two almost came to blows fred

1143
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: Durston Scott Stapp, and I wish that it actually would

1144
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: have happened, because seeing anyone punch Scott Stapp in the

1145
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: face or fred Durst in the face, it would be

1146
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: very entertaining. But you know, look, I hated both of

1147
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: these bands in the moment, but now I tend to

1148
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: find them more interesting than hateable. I guess I don't

1149
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: find them hatable anymore because they're not being shoved in

1150
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: my face all the time. You know, they they've receded

1151
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: back into history and now they just stand as signifiers

1152
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: to me for like the pre nine eleven America that

1153
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: no longer exists. And perhaps that's for the best, but

1154
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: I find myself contemplating what it was about these bands

1155
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: that made them seem attractive to people at the time,

1156
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: and you know, I feel like you can learn a

1157
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 1: lot about America in the late nineties by listening to

1158
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: these bands. So again, well, I don't think that they're

1159
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: great bands or even good bands. I think in their

1160
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: own way, they are important and uh, you know, they're

1161
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: Bellweathers for a corrupt age, you know, both of them,

1162
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: and I think that's their ultimate I guess place in history.

1163
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: Now that's, as usual, much more intelligent take than than

1164
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: my own. My take is a tired, not very interesting take,

1165
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: and I admit that off the bat, but it's also

1166
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: a genuine feeling to me. Fred Durris and Scott's Staff

1167
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: are like the devil and Angel of suck Nous like

1168
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: one may represent goodness and light in the form of

1169
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: Scott's Staff, the other is darkness and chaos in the

1170
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: form of Fred. But at the end of the day,

1171
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: they're unified. Because of how much I hate them, I

1172
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: be it creeds, preachy, do me self seriousness, or limp

1173
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: biscuits penchant for perverting multiple genres to craft odes to

1174
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: want in destruction. I will never be able to appreciate

1175
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: either of them. To me, the two sides of the

1176
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: same coin, and I want to take that coin and

1177
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: cast it down a bottomless wishing well. And my wish

1178
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: is to never hear either of their music again. Well, Jordan,

1179
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: I gotta say, like, when I heard you saying all

1180
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: that stuff, you really took me to a higher place.

1181
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: I thought my arms being lifted and being carried to

1182
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: the great Spirit above. So I want to thank you

1183
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: for your insights on both of these shitty, terrible, no

1184
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 1: good bands. I'm glad because all I feel that I

1185
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: want to break stuff right now. Well, on that note,

1186
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: I think it's time to wrap up this episode of Rivals.

1187
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: Hopefully next week we'll be talking about artists that we

1188
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: actually like and are worth remembering. Until then, thank you

1189
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: all for listening. We'll be back with more Rivals next week.

1190
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: M H Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio.

1191
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Shawn Tytone and Noel Brown. The

1192
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: supervising producers are Taylor chicogn and Tristan McNeil. The producer

1193
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: is Joel hat Stat. I'm Jordan run Talk, and I'm

1194
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: Stephen Hyden. If you like what you heard, please subscribe

1195
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: and leave us a review. For more podcasts, for my

1196
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

1197
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.