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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.

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Speaker 2: Guilty, absolutely guilty, and an incredible and historic jury verdict.

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Speaker 2: The mother of a teen school shooter, a killer has

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Speaker 2: been found guilty in connection with her sons shooting spree. Now,

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Speaker 2: first that might sit wrong with you, but when you

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Speaker 2: hear the evidence you may very well agree with the jury.

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Speaker 3: I mean, see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you

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Speaker 3: for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Here at Crime Stories and on serious xem one eleven.

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Speaker 3: Take a listen to the jury verdict.

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Speaker 4: On count one of involuntary manslaughter to Madison Boldwin, we

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Speaker 4: find the defendant guilty of involuntary manslaughter. On count two

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Speaker 4: of involuntary manslaughter. In regards to Titior, we find the

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Speaker 4: defendant guilty of involuntary manslaughter. On count three as to

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Speaker 4: involuntary manslaughter regarding Hannah Hanna Saint Juliana, we find the

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Speaker 4: defendant guilty of involuntary manslaughter. And in count four of

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Speaker 4: involuntary manslaughter against Joke and Shilling, we find the defendant

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Speaker 4: guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing the jury for person calling out in

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Speaker 2: open court that the defendant Jennifer Cromley, the mother of

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Speaker 2: school shooter Ethan Cromley is in fact guilty of manslaughter herself. Now,

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Speaker 2: to many people, that turns the criminal justice code on

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Speaker 2: its ear. I disagree. I believe the jury is correct

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Speaker 2: and you're going to see why. For those of you

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Speaker 2: that do not remember the infamous school shooting listen, guys.

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Speaker 5: Are gonna take that list right now.

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Speaker 2: We're not taking that list right now.

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Speaker 6: Okay?

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Speaker 7: Well bro, yeah, bro, he said bro.

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Speaker 8: Red Flags.

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Speaker 3: Joining me an all star panel makes sense of what

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Speaker 3: we're hearing.

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Speaker 2: First to Cheryl mccollumn, cold case investigative Research Institute, founder

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Speaker 2: at coldcase crimes dot orgon host of the hit series

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Speaker 2: Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum, very quickly, what you're hearing right

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Speaker 2: There are students barricaded. They've barricaded themselves behind doors, locked doors,

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Speaker 2: and law enforcements trying to get them to come out,

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Speaker 2: and they're so afraid. They're like, he said, bro, we're

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Speaker 2: not coming out.

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Speaker 3: That's not a cop. Then you hear rustling as they.

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Speaker 2: Finally decide to run out and whimpering and crying.

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Speaker 3: You have two children.

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Speaker 2: Can you even imagine at age fourteen fifteen them barricading

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Speaker 2: themselves behind a door at school trying to determine should

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Speaker 2: they come out or not after they've seen their classmates

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Speaker 2: gunned down and dying in the floor at school.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, it was difficult for me when they just went

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Speaker 5: through drills of how to hide in their classroom. The

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Speaker 5: reality of just having to have a drill, well, it's

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Speaker 5: pitiful hearing what you've just played. The reality of what

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Speaker 5: those children went through at the hands of a classmate

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Speaker 5: is unfathomable.

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Speaker 2: The state is arguing that the school shooter Ethan Crumbley,

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Speaker 2: fifteen years old at the time, that he was completely

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Speaker 2: neglected by his parents, that they ignored him, begging for

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Speaker 2: mental health, that he dreamed and thought of and planned

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Speaker 2: quote shooting the school up.

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Speaker 3: His words, not mine.

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Speaker 2: Drawing pictures are murdering people saying my life is useless.

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Speaker 2: Why am I even here? I want to die. I

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Speaker 2: will die. I will go out after I shoot up

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Speaker 2: the school. How can you not know this? But if

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Speaker 2: you don't believe me, I want you to hear this. Okay,

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Speaker 2: a red flag, screaming neg.

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Speaker 3: Listen the horrible brushing his teeth.

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Speaker 9: He wanted these the water quick we got him. He

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Speaker 9: went rush properly through the classic cavities and his braces,

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Speaker 9: so we end up taking the wire about and one

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Speaker 9: time I had thirteen havites through the braces.

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Speaker 10: The prosecution claims Crumbly failed on many occasions to repeatedly

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Speaker 10: provide ordinary care for her son, including but not limited

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Speaker 10: to providing mental health care. The prosecution argued it was

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Speaker 10: clear that he needed help and that he asked for it.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen cavities under his braces. Okay, I know we're talking

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Speaker 2: about a mascul shooting.

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Speaker 3: I've been to many.

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Speaker 2: Mass murder sayings myself, I know how horrible they are.

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Speaker 2: The state is arguing Ethan Cromley's parents totally neglected him,

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Speaker 2: including his cries for help. Is he guilty, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's guilty. Are they guilty? Oh yeah, they're guilty. Cassidy

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Speaker 2: john Cox is joining me, senior digital news editor from

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Speaker 2: click on Detroit dot Com. Cassidy, thirteen cavities. They let

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Speaker 2: this child's mouth get in that bad of shape. And

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Speaker 2: remember she said one time he had thirteen cavities? Really

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Speaker 2: what happened the other times? I mean, on the stand,

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Speaker 2: what evidence came out that the parents didn't have time

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Speaker 2: for him? The moms to be busy, have an affair

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Speaker 2: with the fire chief. I mean, what do we know

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Speaker 2: about his cries for help? He tried to tell his

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Speaker 2: parents and he wanted to shoot up the school.

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Speaker 11: That's true, Nancy. So prosecutors introduced a ton of evidence

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Speaker 11: throughout this case, and we saw the journal evidence written

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Speaker 11: by the shooter saying that he had asked his parents

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Speaker 11: for help repeatedly, he could not get help for his

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Speaker 11: mental health. No one was listening to him. And he

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Speaker 11: also shared text messages with a friend saying I asked

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Speaker 11: my parents for help and I'm struggling. And in court,

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Speaker 11: when Jennifer Crumbley testified on her own behalf, she said

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Speaker 11: those conversations did not happen. She never told her son

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Speaker 11: he could not receive help. But she also said that

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Speaker 11: there had never been an instance where she had secured

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Speaker 11: help for her son.

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Speaker 2: Joining me, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining us so you

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Speaker 2: can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying Ethan Cromley is innocent, because he's not.

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Speaker 2: He murdered his classmates and he will be in jail

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Speaker 2: the rest of his life.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not done yet.

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Speaker 2: Way in there is no way in Hublel that this

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Speaker 2: mom and dad had no idea that their son was

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Speaker 2: at a crisis point and his answer was to shoot

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Speaker 2: at the school with the gun they gave him.

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Speaker 12: Nancy, there's three forms of abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse,

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Speaker 12: and neglect. Neglect. In my field, this kid was neglected.

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Speaker 12: Neglect is considered a worse form of abuse than physical

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Speaker 12: or sexual. And the reason for that is that when

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Speaker 12: you're hit by your parents, at least you know you exist.

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Speaker 12: When they don't talk to you and they don't provide

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Speaker 12: medical care, when they do not return your texts, you

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Speaker 12: no longer feel.

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Speaker 11: Like a person.

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Speaker 12: You're an it. So no wonder a kid like that

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Speaker 12: is primed with other mental health issues to go and

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Speaker 12: shoot up a school, because this is this one moment

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Speaker 12: of determining and sending a signal to the world. I exist,

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Speaker 12: I can shoot people, kill them. I am a person.

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Speaker 2: Cassidy John Coggs jumping off what doctor Bethany Marshall just said.

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Speaker 2: Cassidy is joining us from click on Detroit dot Com. Cassidy,

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Speaker 2: wasn't there a text that Ethan Cromley sent his mom

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Speaker 2: to the effect, can't you even just respond?

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Speaker 3: Can't you just text me back? Yes he did.

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Speaker 11: He had sent several text messages to her saying things like,

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Speaker 11: I'm seeing demons, the house is haunted, things are flying

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Speaker 11: around the room, and she never responded, and so he

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Speaker 11: sent another text in secession saying.

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Speaker 13: Can you please just respond to me?

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Speaker 11: And prosecutors really made a point of that, saying, you know,

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Speaker 11: why wouldn't you respond to these messages? And when Jennifer

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Speaker 11: Crumbley took the stand, she said, these were just jokes

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Speaker 11: between our family, these conversations about ghosts in the house.

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Speaker 11: We all set into it, and we all, you know,

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Speaker 11: named the jokes, named the.

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Speaker 3: Ghost Boris Johnson. Yes, I know, well, yes, yeah, but

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Speaker 3: what type of text was he sending?

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Speaker 2: What was he And it's a sad day when the

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Speaker 2: only way you can talk to your mom is through

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Speaker 2: a text.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I texted my children all day long.

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Speaker 2: They're not supposed to have their phones at school, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes they look in between classes. I hope it's between classes,

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Speaker 2: and I respond immediately. I'm happy when they've texted me,

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Speaker 2: But it seems like that's the only communications they were having,

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Speaker 2: and the mom wouldn't even text back.

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Speaker 12: That's true.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, they did say, you know that the horse barn

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Speaker 11: where she did spend a few days a week in

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Speaker 11: the afternoons after work, that her cellular service was in

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Speaker 11: and out. That was part of her defense. So she

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Speaker 11: claims that, you know, she could not respond in certain instances,

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Speaker 11: and then she gave him a call back apparently after

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Speaker 11: those texts that he sent. Can you please just respond?

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Speaker 11: But it was a short call and you know one

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Speaker 11: we haven't heard listen.

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Speaker 10: Brian Malosh was a longtime friend of Crumbly who also

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Speaker 10: had an affair with her. In twenty twenty one, he

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Speaker 10: testified about his relationship with Jennifer Crumbly after Ethan Crumbley

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Speaker 10: opened fire inside the school. Jennifer Crumbly texted Malosh that

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Speaker 10: the massacre quote could have been prevented. The message was

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Speaker 10: revealed in court. Crumbly also texted him about the school's

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Speaker 10: response to Ethan's disturbing doodle of a mass shooting and

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Speaker 10: the fact that a teacher caught Ethan Crumbley searching for

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Speaker 10: ammunition online on his phone. Crumby described the school's attitude

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Speaker 10: about these incidences as nonchalant.

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Speaker 1: Prime stories with Nancy Grace, the mom.

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Speaker 2: Apparently was more concerned about her sex affair with the fireman.

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Speaker 2: How did that get into Evans Cassidy John Cox, Well.

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Speaker 11: Actually, Nancy, it wasn't supposed to be brought into evidence.

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Speaker 11: The judge had declared many many months ago that cut

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Speaker 11: the topic of the mother's extrameri affair was not going

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Speaker 11: to be part of this trial and that it would,

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Speaker 11: you know, create a prejudice among the jury. And so

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Speaker 11: it actually came out in the middle of trial when

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Speaker 11: when Brian Malosch was testifying and he was introduced initially

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Speaker 11: as a friend, and after conversations, you know, the defense

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Speaker 11: was asking a line of questioning that the prosecutor said,

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Speaker 11: we're getting dangerously close to announcing to this jury that

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Speaker 11: you know, there is an affair between these two people,

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Speaker 11: and the defense after some conversation with the judge, they

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Speaker 11: ultimately decided we're going to let this out. We're going

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Speaker 11: to air it all out and let everyone know all

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Speaker 11: the truth. We have nothing to hide.

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Speaker 3: Listen, mister Laws.

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Speaker 10: We were talking about it.

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Speaker 2: There are three different times that you spoke to police.

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Speaker 14: Correct, It's fair that from the very beginning, the first

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Speaker 14: time you talked to police, you told police that you

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Speaker 14: and missus.

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Speaker 2: Crumbley had had an extramarital affair.

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Speaker 6: Correct.

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Speaker 14: You told police from the very begin your relationship with

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Speaker 14: Missus Crumbley involved a sexual relationship.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 10: And so when you're in here testifying, it's.

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Speaker 2: Fair to say that law enforcement talked to you about

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Speaker 2: the affair right after the shooting.

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Speaker 6: You told them all about it, right, I'm sorry?

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Speaker 2: Yes, Well, Kathleen Murphy joining me veteran trial lawyer and

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Speaker 2: family law That sounds cozy, right, It's not joining me

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Speaker 2: out of North Carolina at Triangle Divorce Lawyers dot com.

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Speaker 2: Kathleen Murphy, that was a big screw up. That's like

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Speaker 2: a bomb in the courtroom. You don't have enough time

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Speaker 2: for your son's begging for help, but you got time

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Speaker 2: to sling up with your boyfriend.

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Speaker 3: They're married.

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Speaker 13: How did the defense attorney think that that was okay

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Speaker 13: information to let into evidence?

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Speaker 2: I do not know, but I know Kathleen Murphy would

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Speaker 2: have thought tooth and nailed to keep that out. But

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Speaker 2: I don't care who's sleeping with who and who's cheating

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Speaker 2: on who. None of my business. Don't care unless it

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Speaker 2: has something to do with this crime.

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Speaker 3: And it does. Because Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it correct that the day Ethan Crimley opened fire

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Speaker 2: and murdered his classmates fifteen years old, he.

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Speaker 3: Was called to the principal's office.

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Speaker 2: I believe a teacher had seen some of his drawings

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Speaker 2: or something he had drawn or written that suggested he

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Speaker 2: was going to shoot somebody.

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Speaker 7: Correct.

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Speaker 3: They go to the office, they call the parents.

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Speaker 2: The parents come over, and the mom is texting back

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Speaker 2: and forth with her lover about their plans to get

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Speaker 2: together and have sex. I don't know that they ever

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Speaker 2: did that day, but I know that that's what she

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Speaker 2: was focused on.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, she goes to the school and sees a drawing

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Speaker 5: of the very gun they bought him and owned, that

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Speaker 5: same paper he had written, and the words help me.

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Speaker 5: She is at the school for eleven minutes, eleven minutes

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Speaker 5: with five adults.

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Speaker 12: In the room.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, you and I the other day had a conversation

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Speaker 5: about you vacuum in it up after the guinea pigs

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Speaker 5: that lasted longer than eleven minutes. Yes, it is beyond

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Speaker 5: insane that somebody could see their child write the words

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Speaker 5: help me and not have their whole world stop until

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Speaker 5: they understood, what do you need from me. What can

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Speaker 5: I do for you right now?

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Speaker 3: Cheryl?

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Speaker 2: I know I sound angry. I am angry. I'm angry.

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Speaker 2: Not just because Ethan Cromley needed help and he was

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Speaker 2: completely ignored. But I got to tell you. You know, I

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Speaker 2: don't really care who sleeps with who. As long as

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Speaker 2: it's not my husband, I don't care. But the fact

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Speaker 2: that she's more worried about hooking up with her lover

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Speaker 2: when her son is drawing pictures of mass shootings and

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Speaker 2: writing please help me, and she leaves. I'm sad about that.

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Speaker 2: I'm angry about that. But I'm more upset about is

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Speaker 2: because of this. Those children are dead every day John

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Speaker 2: David Lucy go to school.

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Speaker 3: I think they're safe. Think about these parents.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl, that get the call there's a school shooting, and

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Speaker 2: they look and they look and they wait for their

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Speaker 2: child to come running out to their arms, and they

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Speaker 2: never come, and they never come, and they never come,

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Speaker 2: and everybody's leaving and their child hasn't come out yet.

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Speaker 2: What about that while mommy's out banging it with her lover.

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Speaker 3: Her son is preparing a school shooting.

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Speaker 5: And he told them every way he could.

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Speaker 12: He flat wrote it.

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Speaker 13: He said, it.

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Speaker 5: And here's the thing. They had him. Five adults had

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Speaker 5: him in a room with that backpack. One adults even said, man,

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Speaker 5: it's really heavy. The mom knew he had access to

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Speaker 5: a gun. They're looking at a drawing of a gun

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Speaker 5: he had said, I'm gonna have to shoot up the school.

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Speaker 5: I can't get these images out of my head. Every

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Speaker 5: single parent that lost a child and had a child

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Speaker 5: harmed by ethan, I don't know how you get past

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Speaker 5: it knowing that five adults had him and could have

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Speaker 5: stopped it within minutes of it occurring.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum and Cassie John Haawx joining us from click

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Speaker 2: on Detroit dot com are exactly correct. All the warning

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Speaker 2: signs were there. I don't know what else it would

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Speaker 2: have taken other than the journal to jump up and

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Speaker 2: bite the mom on the neck. And I just want

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Speaker 2: you to hear this. I'm talking about the mom because

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Speaker 2: she's the one that went on trial. It's daddy's turn next,

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Speaker 2: and guess what he has said after Mommy's convicted quote.

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Speaker 2: It's a systemic issue because of poor school oversight and

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Speaker 2: slow response times to the mass shootings.

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Speaker 3: Is he kidding me?

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Speaker 2: He's blaming slow response times by the police to a

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Speaker 2: mass shooting that his son did, and systemic issues of

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Speaker 2: poor school overs talk about oversight.

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Speaker 3: My rare end.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: You're going down.

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Speaker 2: You might as well try to cut a deal right now,

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Speaker 2: Ethan Cromley's dad, because you are going to jail man

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Speaker 2: for a long time.

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Speaker 3: Don't believe me. Listen.

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Speaker 2: Listen to Lieutenant Timothy Willis on the stand and reading

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Speaker 2: the journal with.

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Speaker 15: Their passages in there. In request for mental health helps.

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Speaker 12: Yes, the shooter.

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Speaker 6: Writes, I have zero help to be for our mental

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Speaker 6: problems and it's causing me to shoots at the school.

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Speaker 2: Did you hear that, Cassidy John hawks, I have zero

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Speaker 2: help for my mental problems and it's causing me to

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Speaker 2: shoot up the school.

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Speaker 3: His words, not mine.

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Speaker 2: Those words were in his journal prior to the school shooting.

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Speaker 11: That's correct, and the parents have both said that they

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Speaker 11: did not see the journal, they had no idea that

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Speaker 11: their son was writing these things, and that they had

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Speaker 11: or at least the mother testified recently that she had

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Speaker 11: no indication, no reason to believe that her son was

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Speaker 11: unwell mentally that he required help.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, I hear parents say I don't want

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Speaker 2: to violate their privacy. B S. The first thing I

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Speaker 2: did when I found out Lucy had a journal was

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Speaker 2: read it. And that's where I got the awful news

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Speaker 2: that she wanted the babysitter to be her mommy because

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Speaker 2: the babysitter didn't have any rules and she could do whatever.

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Speaker 3: She wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: After I had a word with miss Michelle, Okay, of

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Speaker 2: course you should read the journal.

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Speaker 12: Of course she should read the journal. Parenting one one.

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Speaker 12: But the fact that she didn't read the journal means

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Speaker 12: that she's disinterested in him. That's what it tells me.

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Speaker 12: It's not just poor parenting, it's neglect. It's lack of interest.

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Speaker 12: And you know about father's statement that it's the school

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Speaker 12: official's fault if he is so unempathic towards the slain

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Speaker 12: students towards their families, Imagine how unempathic and disinterested he

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Speaker 12: was in his own child. It gives us insight into

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Speaker 12: what was happening in that home. And one more quick thing, Nancy,

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Speaker 12: school shooters always write about it ahead of time.

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Speaker 3: Oh they do, don't they They do always?

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Speaker 12: So how did the school officials overlook that that's the

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Speaker 12: number one warning sign of a shooter. They write about it.

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Speaker 2: To doctor Jeffrey Jensen joining us, very well known professor

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Speaker 2: forensic pathology, director of Autopsy and Forensic Services at University

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Speaker 2: of Michigan Medical School, and a former medical examiner in

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Speaker 2: Milwaukee County. Of course, never a lack of business. I'm

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Speaker 2: sad to say, Dr Jensen, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Got a question for you. You heard the sound. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to play any other sound from the killings

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Speaker 2: because I don't think I can bear to hear it.

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Speaker 2: But you heard the students barricaded in a room, and

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Speaker 2: when they finally decide they're going to run out, they

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Speaker 2: don't know if they're running straight into a shooter, straight

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Speaker 2: into bullets. Some of them are whimpering and your cries

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Speaker 2: of fear as and they're all rushing out.

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Speaker 3: Do you believe that these shooting victims, the students.

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Speaker 2: That were murdered that day, could have seen and understood

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Speaker 2: what was happening around them. Sixteen year old Tate Meyer,

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Speaker 2: Tang Girl mass and ball Well, Hannah Saint Juliana, Justin Shilling,

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Speaker 2: the others six were wounded.

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Speaker 8: You know, Nancy. One of the things that one of

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Speaker 8: the things forensic pathologists do is to opine on issues

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Speaker 8: of pain and suffering. And you know, you can almost

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Speaker 8: anticipate that, with the impending sense of doom and fear

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Speaker 8: for their own lives, that all these children, though the

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Speaker 8: unfortunate victims as well as the survivors, are going to

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Speaker 8: have pain and suffering with emotional anxiety and just a

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Speaker 8: fear of their own death.

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Speaker 3: I'm just imagining lying there hearing all your classmates running

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Speaker 3: and crying and screaming, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, something horrible has happened. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: you can feel. I don't know if the children knew they.

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Speaker 3: Had been shot. I guess they did.

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Speaker 8: Go ahead, doctor, yeah, this is this is a classic

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Speaker 8: case of medical neglect. Forensic pathologists to see forms of

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Speaker 8: medical medical neglect and a number of different kind of cases,

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Speaker 8: and I typically sign these out as homicides. But in

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Speaker 8: this case, you've got, you know, the the actual victim.

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Speaker 8: One of the victims is still alive. You know, you

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Speaker 8: you grieve for the four children that were shot, but

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Speaker 8: the other victim is this child who is denied medical

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Speaker 8: care and basically his life is over too, with a

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Speaker 8: life sentence without parole.

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Speaker 3: His life has gone to it is doctor Jensen. It

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Speaker 3: is I'm thinking back on what we're hearing. But there's more.

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Speaker 2: There is more in this journals.

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Speaker 15: Were there any general in He's about the shooter's access

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Speaker 15: to the night blimer?

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Speaker 6: Here, I guy here where the shooter rights?

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Speaker 2: First Off, I got my gun.

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Speaker 10: It's a SP twenty twenty.

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Speaker 6: Two six hour nine millimeter.

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Speaker 8: Second, the shooting is tomorrow.

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Speaker 6: I had access to the gun and the animal.

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Speaker 2: I am fully.

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Speaker 8: Committed this to this now.

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Speaker 15: So yeah, I'm going to prison for life.

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Speaker 6: And many people have about one day left to live.

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Speaker 8: That's really tragic. It's it's that's the smoking gun, so

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Speaker 8: to speak.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is.

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Speaker 2: And what I think about a sig sour SB twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two nine millimeter being unleashed on children walking from

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Speaker 2: class to class. And he details all of this and

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Speaker 2: so much more in the journal.

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Speaker 3: And there's more you're hearing.

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Speaker 2: Lieutenant Timothy Willis on the stand, listen, PA to five.

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Speaker 15: Can you read this tanta quot and this one the

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Speaker 15: shooter rights.

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Speaker 6: I want help, but my parents don't listen to me,

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Speaker 6: and I can't get any help shooter REGs. My parents

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Speaker 6: won't listen to me about help or therapist.

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Speaker 2: My parents won't listen to me about help or a therapist,

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Speaker 2: and more.

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Speaker 15: Sir in the Journal of Wizard entries about the shooter's

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Speaker 15: desires to obtain a nine million or handgun. Yes, the

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Speaker 15: suter rights.

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Speaker 6: I want to shoot up the school so badly. Soon

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Speaker 6: I'm going to buy a nine millimeter pistol.

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Speaker 15: Sure where they're any passages regarding the shooter's planning for

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Speaker 15: the actual student?

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Speaker 6: Absolutly shooter recx, I'm about to shoot up the school

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Speaker 6: and send the rest of my life in prisons.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how it could have been any more

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Speaker 2: play than it was if the parents had even bothered

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Speaker 2: to look in the journal. Joining me now is an

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Speaker 2: expert in school security. Elisa Mula is joining us, expert

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Speaker 2: and advocate in child school safety and security. Alisa, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. One question, when the teachers

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Speaker 2: see and this actually happened at my twins elementary school

430
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Speaker 2: in a different grade, a younger grade, a third grade

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Speaker 2: little girl was writing on her papers about shooting people

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Speaker 2: and hanging people.

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Speaker 3: They immediately took her.

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Speaker 2: To the principal's office, called the parents over and got

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Speaker 2: her in counseling. Immediately So my question is if the

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Speaker 2: school was afraid or concerned, and they even said, like

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Speaker 2: Cheryl mccallugh pointed out, wow, this backpack is heavy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, don't they know about Parkland?

439
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Speaker 2: For Pete's sake, could they have called police themselves? I mean,

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Speaker 2: the kids writing about shooting at.

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Speaker 16: The school, they absolutely could have called police themselves. They

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Speaker 16: could have taken a look in his book bag, you know,

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Speaker 16: they could have reported his parents. In terms of neglect,

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Speaker 16: I'd like to see if there were any reports on

445
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 16: behald this school to alert anyone of the distress this

446
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 16: child was in and maybe put him in some level

447
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 16: of a program with the school. Nowadays, they didn't have

448
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 16: this years ago, but nowadays there's some sort of standard

449
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 16: in most schools. In fact, this sort of came about

450
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 16: with the Obama administration that they implement a certain level

451
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 16: of training for bullying, anti bullying, any sort of troubled

452
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 16: situation like this.

453
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 11: So what did the school do?

454
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 16: That's my number one question?

455
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: And to you, Kessidy John Coggs joining us click Ondetroit

456
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: dot com, what if anything did the school do well?

457
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 11: As far as we know, Nancy, the school, there are

458
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 11: several teachers who were alerted to some strange behavior by

459
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 11: the shooter in the weeks and the days leading up

460
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 11: to the shooting, and it got to the point where

461
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 11: eventually the counselor decided to call in the mother and

462
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 11: the father the day of the shooting when they found

463
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 11: that math assignment with the violent drawings and phrases that's

464
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 11: saying the voices won't stop.

465
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 13: Help me, but the school.

466
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 11: The counselor testified that he had intended the next day

467
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 11: if the shooter didn't get help with mental health within

468
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 11: forty eight hours, like he had asked the parents to do,

469
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 11: he was going to call child protective Services the next

470
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 11: morning if nothing had changed. That is as far as

471
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 11: we know what they were planning to do in that

472
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 11: situation planning.

473
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: So they were talking about what they were going to

474
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: do and they never did anything.

475
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 12: That's so terrible because writing about the crime is the

476
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 12: precursor to doing it. You don't want to wait forty

477
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 12: eight hours when they get to the point where they're

478
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 12: acting strange. And it sounds like he was also fragmenting,

479
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 12: he was delusional. He has to be yanked out right away.

480
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 12: He has to be put on a fifty two to fifty,

481
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 12: which is an involuntary seventy two hour hold. That is,

482
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 12: when you hold somebody involuntarily because they're danger to self

483
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 12: or others. That was the easiest, most immediate solution, not

484
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 12: calling the parents, even in at that point calling nine

485
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 12: to one, Why I jump in?

486
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: Yes? Please?

487
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 5: His complete shooting spree lasted nine minutes. You give him

488
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 5: forty eight hours. How much more destruction could there have been?

489
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: Speaking of ignoring his cries for help, you earlier heard

490
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: the mom describing thirteen cavities under his braces before he was.

491
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 3: Taken to the dentist. Well, listen to this.

492
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 9: My son, he had one measure room and they got

493
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 9: and every time I go to the thing, I.

494
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 8: Just shut the door.

495
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 14: Wanted the little bit.

496
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 9: So then I told him you could just us the

497
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 9: guys pleasure so I can get his roomdeat clean.

498
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, whoa, I'm not sure why. I know

499
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: that this is really wrong. Dr Bethony Marshall. You may

500
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: need to guide me through this year the shrink, but

501
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: I know when your child's room is so disgusting, you

502
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: don't make him clan his room.

503
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 3: No, you don't clean up his room. You just shut

504
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 3: the door.

505
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: And leave it for weeks and months on end and

506
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: say hey, stay in the guest room until I get

507
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: that thing deep poined, and then do nothing. Okay, there's

508
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: something really wrong with that. And what does it have

509
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: to do with the school shooting? Because I would have

510
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: to think it through. I know it does.

511
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 12: Because she's disparaging her own child from the stand. She's

512
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 12: blaming him and saying that he had this horrible bedroom.

513
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 12: And sometimes teenagers do and sometimes if it's just a

514
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 12: bit of a mild mess, you walk by and you

515
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 12: shut the door. But this was a serious, serious mess.

516
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 12: Would you ever degrade or devalue your own child in

517
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 12: front of a jewelry and a.

518
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 3: Courtroom, in front of anyone.

519
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 12: No, that's what we're hearing. No, that's what's wrong. That's

520
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 12: what you're about.

521
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: I'm saying neglect instead of saying, son, I will help.

522
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: You, let's go in your room.

523
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: It's disgusting doing that, doing it yourself and complaining bitterly,

524
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: but instead just shutting the door and going, hey, go

525
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: stay in the guest bedroom. There's something neglectful and wrong

526
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 2: with that.

527
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 12: Do you know how many parents in my office complain

528
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 12: that their children throw all their clothes on the floor,

529
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 12: they try on every outfit in the closet before they

530
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 12: go to school. These are normal things, and what happens

531
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 12: is the parent takes it to therapy because they love

532
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 12: their child. They're concerned, and they want to know the

533
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 12: best approach for dealing with it.

534
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: How about pick up your closet. I'm taking your cell phone,

535
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: just a suggestion, Okay.

536
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 12: The fact that this room was so messy is one

537
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 12: of the signs of his fragmentation, that he was falling

538
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 12: apart and becoming delusional, and she should have explored.

539
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: That time stories with Nancy Grace.

540
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: One of the jurors stated that a big factor in

541
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: their guilty verdict was that the mother. Ethan Crumley's mother,

542
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: Jennifer Crumley, was the last adult to touch.

543
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: The gun that they know of. But she didn't just

544
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: touch the gun, she gave him the gun listen.

545
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 7: Oakland County Assistant Prosecutor Matt Keist points out that even

546
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 7: though Jennifer Crumbley knew her son, Ethan Crumbley had a

547
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 7: deteriorating mental health crisis, growing social isolation, and that even

548
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 7: though at fifteen, Ethan Crumbley could not buy a handgun

549
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 7: by himself. His parents still gifted him the gun, the

550
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 7: gun he used in the school shooting.

551
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know a lot, but when one of

552
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: my children or I can tell if they're sad, or

553
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: they're angry, or they are upset, I don't want them

554
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: to go off and be alone because, for instance, I'm

555
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: afraid my son's frustration level will get worse, or my

556
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: daughter is.

557
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: She going to sit alone in her bathroom and cry?

558
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 3: I don't want that to happen. The last thing we

559
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 3: want to give an upset teen is a gun.

560
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: I mean, can I get an amen on that from

561
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: anybody on this panel?

562
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 3: A gun?

563
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 16: I'll give you an amen on that, And I'll give

564
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 16: you one more thing. Most states, and I believe the

565
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 16: state of Michigan, would have required someone in the household

566
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 16: to have gone for gun safety training courses before they

567
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 16: could even purchase a weapon. How is it that this mother,

568
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 16: knowing or not knowing for that matter, the mental state

569
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 16: of her child, just handing over a gun. Did she

570
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 16: have to go for that training?

571
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: You're hearing Alisa Mula joining us child at school safety

572
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: security expert Kathleen Murphy giving distracting a gun really.

573
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 13: Nancy, I have a child who's seventeen, a boy, more introverted,

574
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 13: and he plays airsoft. Even with his airsoft utensils, guns,

575
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 13: whatever you want to call them, they're not real gun.

576
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 13: I monitor what's going on.

577
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 17: I know where they are, I know how he's doing,

578
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 17: I know what his mental state is. This is gross negligence.

579
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 17: It's not just negligence, it's gross extreme negligence.

580
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 13: This poor kid did not have a chance.

581
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 3: Nor did the murder victims. Let me just point that out.

582
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: They're just walking from class to class in school and

583
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: get gunned down by Ethan Crumley. But of course now

584
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: the parents are doing this blaming each other. To take

585
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: a Listen to Jennifer Crumley on the stand.

586
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 14: I'm this receive this gun was purchased by James Crumley crest.

587
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 3: Yes, the receipt.

588
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 14: Does not have Jennifer Crumley's scene. No, and when this

589
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 14: gun was purchased, James Crumley was accompanied by a teenage

590
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 14: boy and no one else crept crept.

591
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 10: Jennifer Crumbley's a turn Shennon Smith argues that Jennifer knows

592
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 10: nothing about guns and puts the blame on Ethan's father,

593
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 10: James Crumbly. Smith points out that Jennifer Crumbly did take

594
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 10: her son to a shooting range, but she didn't know

595
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 10: what she was doing, and she wasn't the one to

596
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 10: buy the handgun. It was James Crumbly that bought the gun.

597
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 10: During his guilty plea, Ethan Crumbley said that he gave

598
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 10: his father the money to buy the handgun that he

599
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 10: later used to kill four and wound seven at Oxford

600
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 10: High School.

601
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: Okay, Cassidy, John Cox's joining me. He's been on the

602
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: trial from the very beginning in that jurisdiction. She's a

603
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: click on Detroit dot Com, Cassidy.

604
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 3: It sounds like.

605
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 2: The mom and the defense attorney are trying to do

606
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: their best to pend it on the dad for going

607
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: and buying the gun.

608
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: And yes, he is at fault. He is. It's on video.

609
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: But the only way they could get away with that

610
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 2: is to claim the mom had no idea her son

611
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: had a gun, and she clearly did know he had

612
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: a gun.

613
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 11: Yeah, Nancy, So what they're doing here the defense of

614
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 11: they are definitely pointing fingers at each other. And these

615
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 11: two different trials, the mother said one she took the

616
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 11: stand at her trial that she had absolutely no hand

617
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 11: in the gun. It was up to her husband to

618
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 11: store them, to hide them, to lock them. She didn't

619
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 11: feel comfortable, she just left that all to her husband,

620
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 11: So she essentially put that all on him. And then

621
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 11: she said a few days before the shooting, she and

622
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 11: her son went to the gun range with that new gun,

623
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 11: that nine milimeter they had just purchased, and when they

624
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 11: returned home, she left the gun in the trunk of

625
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 11: her car, and then her husband was going to come

626
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 11: and take it out and put it in the home

627
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 11: when he got home from work. So that's what she

628
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 11: said happened. She said she didn't see her husband remove

629
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 11: the gun from the car and put it in the

630
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 11: house and hide it like he said he would, but

631
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 11: he said that he did. And so that was one

632
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 11: of the things that the jury really focused on. They said,

633
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 11: was what really hammered this conviction home for them was

634
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 11: that Jennifer Crumbley was the last known person to have

635
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 11: her hands on that gun.

636
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 2: I want you to hear what we learned about the

637
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: day Ethan Cromley was called to the Principal's office in

638
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: fifty three.

639
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 18: Hours before the shooting occurred. Jennifer and James Crumbley were

640
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 18: called to the school because of the mass shooting doodle

641
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 18: Ethan had drawn. Also, his online searches for AMMO while

642
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 18: in school had frightened a teacher. The counselor said Jennifer

643
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 18: or James Crumbley could take Ethan home that morning, but

644
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 18: they both claim they were too busy at work.

645
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: And could not take him home that day.

646
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 18: James Crumbley was too busy with his door dash job,

647
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 18: and Jennifer was so busy that she notified Brian she

648
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 18: could meet up with him.

649
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, is Brian the lover Cassidy? Yes he is.

650
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: Nancy, So, after meeting with the principal about the disturbing

651
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: notes and drawings about shootings, she doesn't take the sun home,

652
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: but she writes her lover to say, yeah, we'll meet

653
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: up later.

654
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

655
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 11: As far as we know, she shared a lot of

656
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 11: intimate text messages with Brian, but she did return to

657
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 11: work that day after the meeting.

658
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 14: Listen, did you do you feel like you were taking

659
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 14: the position of I am leaving him at school whether

660
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 14: he can be here or not.

661
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 13: No?

662
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 18: Absolutely not.

663
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 14: Okay, were you.

664
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: Surprised or were you nut surprised?

665
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 14: Did you have any feelings about whether or not he

666
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 14: could stay at school?

667
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 6: I didn't really.

668
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 15: I I thought.

669
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 9: The advice that they were giving us was the a

670
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 9: good advice. We talk of him being sad, and then

671
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 9: he said being around here is usually helps. If we

672
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 9: upgraded that. My son gets very stressed out. He knows

673
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 9: virtual school, so we agree that might stress him out

674
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 9: more to do his school remotely.

675
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: The rest of the day.

676
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 9: But there is never a time where I would refuse

677
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 9: to take up home. I could easily if you wanted

678
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 9: to go, take up with me paying no issues with that.

679
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: Not only that after their son is arrested, the parents

680
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 2: drain the bank account and go on the run.

681
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 3: Listen, Okan.

682
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 7: Has a two parent that are on a run right now.

683
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 12: And had you know.

684
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 18: Oakle and Kelly that called your penything.

685
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 8: And I just wanted to go park my car and

686
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 8: twitch it around at my offer and at my oper

687
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 8: and they were like yeah, and it looked like their car.

688
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 12: And I walked around and checked, did like complete edit

689
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 12: their car?

690
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 5: And the woman here in connect.

691
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 12: To the car aware getting next to her car in

692
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 12: the parking lot.

693
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: Citizens were asked to be on the lookout for Ethan

694
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: Crumley's parents, and sure enough that caller calls Naimo one

695
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 2: to stay.

696
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 3: I see her. She's right there with her Kia and.

697
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: Take a listen to the mom trying to explain this

698
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: under cross examination.

699
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 15: You don't deny that you had six thousand dollars in

700
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 15: cash in your first the night you were arrested. You

701
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 15: don't deny that your purse with the cash in force

702
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 15: cell phones were in the Classic toe.

703
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 8: You don't deny that that.

704
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 15: Classic toe is containing the different Classic toe O. You

705
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 15: don't deny that you're packed with clothing items was found

706
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 15: in a different Classic Toad in a different area of

707
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 15: the studio.

708
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 2: Craft. Yeah, Mommy goes on the run after draining all

709
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: the money out of the account.

710
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: Dad on the run too.

711
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: The jury heard that evidence of flight is allowed in

712
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 2: front of the jury to show frame of mind, course

713
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: of conduct, evidence of guilt. Jennifer Crumley guilty, Two down,

714
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: one to go, Goodbye friend,