1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: The Michael Verie Show is on the air. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Trump can't handle strong successful women. 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: You can't handle women, particularly strong women. 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, you never see him around strong intelligent women. 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: I am woman. 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: Hear me wrong? 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 2: At fifty four years old. We will undertake I am 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: a job. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 1: The son of the Vietnam War generation. It is probably 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: the most profound, impactful historical event in American history that 12 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: gets the least amount of attention relative to the impact 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: it made on this country now. It is more recent, 14 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: of course, than say the Revolution or the Civil War, 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: World War One, or World War Two, but the profound 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: cultural change it precipitated cannot be measured yet and will 17 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: not be measured for decades to come. Families torn apart, 18 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: women left without their husbands, children left without a father. 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: In some cases, children made, father goes to Vietnam, father 20 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: does not come home except in a coffin, and the 21 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: child never knew their dad, A very, very troubling scenario. 22 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: Those who came home from World War Two were heroes. 23 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: Those who came home from Vietnam were spat upon. There's 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: been some argument over the last few years whether they 25 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: were spat upon or not, I've had enough tell me 26 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: they were that. I believe it, But either way it 27 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: was troubling. Why were we there, Why weren't we winning 28 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: when we left? Why did it take so long? And 29 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: how did the other side win, if in fact they did, 30 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: what were really the goals? These things bother me. I 31 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: wrestle with them, and I wrestle with them because, as 32 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, I had a club called the RCC, and 33 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I would get up every night that we had a 34 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: big concert, and I would say from the stage, Hey, 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna do three things. You know, kiss your bride, 36 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: this is date night. Or number two, make a friend. 37 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 1: Number three. I want all my veterans to come down. 38 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: And I would call out the veterans of every conflict, 39 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: including at that point when we started twenty thirteen, there 40 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: were still World War Two veterans Korea. I would skip 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: Vietnam and I would go to all of the conflicts since, 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: and then I would do Vietnam last, and I would 43 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: see grown men in their seventies, tears streaming down their faces, 44 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: and their children my age would come up to me afterwards. 45 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: They have never seen my dad cry. You hit him, 46 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: you punched him. 47 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 2: In the gut. 48 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: This was a moment that he emoted publicly, and he's 49 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: never done that. So with that in mind, we do 50 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: a fair number of I don't like the word interview, 51 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: I like the word discussion on the subject of Vietnam, 52 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: and today is further to that point. The author of 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: Flags of Our Fathers has released a new book about 54 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. It's called Precious Freedom, a novel, and 55 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: James Bradley, the author, is our guest. 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: Welcome to the program, James, Thank you, Michael. 57 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: It's good to be with a czar. 58 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Let's start with why I write this book. What's the purpose? 59 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: What do you hope to accomplish? 60 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: I tried to figure out what happened. I was thirteen 61 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: years old when my brother went off to the Marine 62 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: Corps in nineteen sixty seven. So I watched everything on 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: TV that Walter Cronkite had to tell me, and I 64 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 3: wrote a book, Flags of Our Fathers, about how my 65 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: father won with the Marine Corps in World War Two 66 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 3: and then we lost in Vietnam. So my brother's with 67 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: the Marines, my father's with the Marines. In one family 68 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: and one generation, totally different outcome. So I wrote four 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: books on the Pacific War, Why we got there, Teddy Roosevelt, 70 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: Franklin Roosevelt, George Bush, my Houstonian buddy, getting shot down. 71 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: And then I thought, what about this Vietnam? So I 72 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: went to Vietnam. You know, I had four books under 73 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: my belt, and I thought, I'll just spend three years 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 3: here and have a book done. And it took me 75 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 3: about eleven years to figure out what happened. So the 76 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 3: first reason it took me so long is because I 77 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 3: had to disentangle from all the propaganda that we're still 78 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 3: enmeshed with, even the wording, even the wording. If you 79 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: want me to continue, or you want to, I mean, 80 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: I can give you some example. 81 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: I should have warned you when I am really interested 82 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: in an interview. My New Year's resolution this year was 83 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: to stop interrupting people. So I literally turned my mic 84 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: off and become a member of the audience. If I 85 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: need to interrupt you, I will, but by all means 86 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 1: speak on. I am listening, not waiting to ask a question, 87 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: but learning from you. 88 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 3: So you go ahead, Well, I'll give you some examples 89 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 3: of why I was dumbfounded. You know, this is after 90 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 3: reading like two hundred books on the Vietnam War. Interviewing 91 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 3: Vietnam vets, I was immersed in the American narrative. And 92 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 3: I go to Vietnam and I go in as a 93 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: Vietnamese veterans house and he says, mister Bradley, look at 94 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 3: your feet, and my feet were in my socks on 95 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 3: his floor. And I said, what about him? And he said, 96 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: this was a marine base. Your brother thought this was 97 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 3: American territory. He said, there was no north in South Vietnam. 98 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: He said, the New York Times drew a line across 99 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: the country called it the DMZ. We never thought there 100 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 3: was a north and south. He said. I didn't think 101 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 3: I needed a visa to visit my uncle in another country. 102 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 3: I mean, Michael, I had to go back to my 103 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: hotel room, like, oh my god. This is like Canada 104 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 3: invades Texas and draws the line down the middle and says, now, 105 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 3: look at Michael, there's a East Texas in a West Texas. 106 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: In East Texas loves Canada and West Texas were the 107 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: bad guys. And there's two countries here. Michael, you wouldn't, 108 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: I mean, what are you talking about. You're from Canada. 109 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: So we went and we imposed. There was no DMZ, 110 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 3: there was no International Boarder because Vietnamese never thought is 111 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: the North invaded the South. That was all made up 112 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: gobblinggook from the CIA, Walter Cronkite, Ken Burns and every 113 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: documentary you've ever seen. So the Vietnamese, you know, if 114 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 3: you look at a diagram of Vietnam, they say, we say, oh, 115 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 3: we sent your father to South Vietnam to fight North 116 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: Vietnam to make South Vietnam free. And the Vietnamese were like, 117 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: there's one Vietnam. Hanoi is the same as Saigon. There's 118 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: some traders that are bribed, you know, the guys who 119 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: ran South Vietnam, the Vietnamese. These were the guys who 120 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: fought for the French against Ho Chi Minh. So it's like, 121 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: you know, Britain loses in the Revolutionary War, and then 122 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: Britain stays in like Virginia, let's say, and France comes 123 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 3: in and gives them money, and they keep telling the British, 124 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: you know, there's a there's a British America here. We 125 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: didn't really lose, and all the traders to the American 126 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: cause are getting pumped up with money. There was no South. 127 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: In North Vietnam. That's one thing another thing. So it 128 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: took me about six months of drinking tea for them 129 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: to part the veil. I got to talk to people 130 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 3: VC viet Cong whod you know, never talked to foreigners. 131 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: It took so long to get into this. Mister Bradley, 132 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 3: you want to meet this famous sniper? And I said, yeah, sure, 133 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 3: So I'm thinking. 134 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: James Bradley, hold right there. I'm up against the break 135 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: hold type. The book is called Precious Freedom, a Novel. 136 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: We'll continue with our guest, James Bradley. 137 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: Come out. 138 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 4: You've got the Michael Berry's show. James Bradley is our guest. 139 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers. He has 140 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 4: a new book about the Vietnam War. It's called Precious Freedom, 141 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 4: a Novel. I had to interrupt you in the middle. 142 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 4: You were talking about visiting the home of a Vietnamese 143 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 4: Vietnam War veteran. 144 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: Pick up where you left off, if you would please her. 145 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you want to meet it a famous sniper? Yeah, 146 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: of course, so sniper. You know, I'm thinking of a 147 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: lanky guy, you know, stumble And I walk in and 148 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: it's a sixty five year old former principal, a female, 149 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 3: and she's sitting there. This is the famous sniper, and 150 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 3: this is what she's the main character in the book. 151 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 3: Her name is May. May, said mister Bradley. When I 152 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 3: was fifteen years old, a Marine walked into my front yard, 153 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 3: shot my father in the head and killed them. And 154 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 3: I said to myself, I'm going to kill every American 155 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 3: I ever see. So I'm an American in her living 156 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: room and I said, well, how did you do? She said, 157 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 3: I killed five Americans. It's easy if you have patients. 158 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: So she was fifteen, you know. We asked like, how 159 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 3: do people get radicalized? Why do they hate us? Well, 160 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: I'm from Wisconsin. If a Canadian walked into my front 161 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 3: yard shot my dad in the head, I can recognize 162 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 3: that Canadian uniform. I know exactly what those Canadian helmets 163 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 3: look like. I'm fifteen. I'm going to run to the 164 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 3: four get trained like she did. And she sat up 165 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: in a tree and she snipered to death five Marines. 166 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: She probably killed twenty to thirty, but she got medals 167 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 3: for five that were witnessed. Now, the number one Marine sniper, 168 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 3: there's a book about him. Carlos hathcocked he's very, very famous. Carlos, 169 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: he snipered ninety to the dead. I've got a picture 170 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 3: I'm looking at right now of a beautiful Vietnamese girls. 171 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 3: She's twenty two years old. She killed one hundred and 172 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: seventy four Americans. It was their country. They were not 173 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: in uniforms. They could be up in trees. I mean, 174 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: think of it. When you're fifteen and a foreign army 175 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: comes into town. Well, the foreign army's in a bunch, 176 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: they're in a group, they're making noise. They come in 177 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 3: armored carriers, and you're fifteen sitting there at barefoot, and 178 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: you know all the alleyways. I could run like four 179 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 3: or five blocks across my hometown when I was fifteen 180 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: at night, and I knew where every fence was and 181 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: where every open window was, and you know a basement 182 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: that was open in somebody's house. And they just energized 183 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: all these kids. And what the book is about. My 184 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: brother goes to this base called dong Ha. It's a 185 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 3: marine base, well the Marines, and this is not publicized. 186 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: It's hard to find this. They leave in nineteen sixty nine, 187 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 3: not nineteen seventy five with the helicopters the Marines are 188 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: pushed out. Well, they weren't pushed out by the North 189 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: Vietnamese army. They were pushed out by kids, by civilians 190 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: with old French rifles. They were being tricked and snipered. 191 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 3: So another story. I'm thirteen watching Walter cromerits CBS News, 192 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 3: and they show me Route nine. Well, what's Route nine 193 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: across the neck of Vietnam, right below the DMZ. So 194 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: it goes from the South China Seed to Laos and 195 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 3: it's the main thoroughfare and Route nine. I saw it. 196 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 3: I remember, I'm thirteen, and there's the news. Here's Route 197 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: nine and the Marines are in complete control. And I 198 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 3: saw tanks and armored cars and well I went out 199 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 3: with the with the tiger of Route nine. Mister Soone, 200 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 3: who's in the book? And I said, mister Soone, I 201 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: remember seeing this on TV with marines all over. And 202 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 3: he said, yeah, you didn't see me in the pictures 203 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: in the film. I said, what do you mean? He said, 204 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: we never fought during the day, He said, mister Bradley, 205 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 3: all those newsreels you saw Vietnam, he said, those are 206 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 3: all shot during the day. We didn't fight during the day. 207 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 3: We were sleeping during the day, talking to our girlfriends, 208 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 3: doing medical care, you know, judicial work, getting food in 209 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 3: in these underground cities that we had. And he said, 210 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: we came out at night. He said, it's easy to 211 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: be successful at night. He said, your brother probably never 212 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 3: swept hardly, slipt the wink at night because we were, 213 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: you know, attacking. So Michael, every day at four pm, 214 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: the Marines retreated from Route nine and I'm like, oh 215 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: my god, we never controlled Vietnam. We said we controlled Vietnam, 216 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: like this area, that area, it's under control. We never 217 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 3: controlled it for a full twenty four hour period. The 218 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 3: Marines had to retreat every single day at four pm 219 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 3: and foxholes or you know, put out the concertina wire 220 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: and the mines and all this and prepare for the night. 221 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: And that's when the Vietnamese came out. I saw guys 222 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 3: special forces of Vietnamese. They were trained to spider walk 223 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 3: through these minefields, you know, like acrobats. They built replicas 224 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 3: of this and they knew how to like spider walk, 225 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 3: clip all the wires and then boom. Their buddies would 226 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 3: come and the Marines would be hunkered down. The guys 227 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 3: on the perimeter might get shot. The guys inside, you know, 228 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: jangled nerves, and then when they came out in the morning, 229 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 3: they had to mind sweep the area. Again. The Marines 230 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: couldn't just get up and run out of their sleeping quarters. 231 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 3: They had to have mine sweepers. So, you know, I'm like, what, 232 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 3: you didn't fight during the day, he said, No, ho 233 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 3: Chi Min said, the Americans had a surveillance during the day. 234 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 3: Why would we go out during the day and you 235 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: guys had an air force. We didn't have an air force, 236 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: he said. We were sleeping during the day, and it's 237 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 3: hot as hell during the day, so we let the 238 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: Marines go out and sweat and not find us, and 239 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: then we came out at night when it's easy to 240 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 3: be successful. So I'll tell you, mister son takes me 241 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 3: to a battle site. Now, if you listen to Americans, 242 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 3: we think in terms of battles. Rat cat, that cat. 243 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: You know, thirty guys there and thirty guys here, and 244 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 3: we're fighting like a football game. You know, thirty here, 245 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 3: thirty there. Boom boom boom. And he said, I'll take 246 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 3: you out to this battle. So we go out. Well, 247 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 3: the Americans landed with a helicopter on a river bank, 248 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: and then they had to walk along a trail on 249 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 3: the river and go through a village. And then the 250 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: intelligence was was that there was VC up in the 251 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 3: hills after the village. So they walked through the village 252 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 3: and the village has the usual toothless gramma on grandpa's 253 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 3: and little kids. Well that was the intelligence net for 254 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: the vietnamemes. Those grandmas were measured, were memorizing every single 255 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 3: This guy had a handgun, and that guy was pointing 256 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 3: his rifle bes way, and the radio man was in 257 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: the fourth position and they were memorizing everything. So the 258 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: marines go up into the hills. Well, the VC they 259 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 3: were looking for was hiding behind the village. And then 260 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: they came out and interviewed all the grandmas and grandpa's 261 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 3: and they got they got one sad when the Marines 262 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: walked through the village, they walked with their rifles pointed downs. 263 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 2: James Bradley is our guest. The book is called Precious Freedom, 264 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: a novel. He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers. 265 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: More on Very Troubled Vietnam. There. James Bradley is our guest. 266 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: The book is called Precious Freedom, a novel. He is 267 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: the author of Flags of Our Fathers. James, let me 268 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: ask you a question. I am a believer in picking 269 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: at scabs, and whether that is the deaths caused by 270 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: the COVID virus, for instance, or the lies about weapons 271 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: of mass destruction. And one of the things I find 272 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: is that one has to tread lightly. Let's take Vietnam 273 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: for instance. We love and respect and honor the people 274 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: like your brother who went off to war. Many of 275 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: them didn't sign up to go serve. Many of them 276 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: were drafted, the most the most recent, the last time 277 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: that happened in America. So you really have some folks 278 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: that are walking the streets on Monday, and on Tuesday 279 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: their ping pong ball comes up and they're sent off 280 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: to war. They were not ready for this and certainly 281 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: didn't want to go, but they didn't flee. They didn't, 282 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: you know, take deferments and do all that. How do 283 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: you navigate such an honest conversation where you're doing what 284 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: I think the scientific method and good journalism, good investigation requires, 285 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: and that is asking tough questions. Because as I would say, 286 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: of a number of our conflicts, it's not the problem 287 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: of our boys. It's the problem of our generals and 288 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: our government putting people in a bad situation. How do 289 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: you navigate that without I don't think you intend to 290 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: dishonor Vietnam American Vietnam veterans, So how do you navigate that? 291 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 3: I am trying to help the Vietnam veterans out. I'm 292 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 3: the this is this is Here's a sad fact. I'm 293 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 3: the only American author that ever went to Vietnam and 294 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 3: asked the people who won the war, how did you win? 295 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 3: I mean I caddied for Vince Lombardi of the Green 296 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: Bay Packers, bart starluved three doors down up at bass Lake, 297 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 3: and it was win or lose. And when you lost, 298 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 3: you studied. We looked at the films. How did we lose? Well, 299 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 3: the United States got kicked out of Vietnam, and we 300 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 3: never admitted why and had nothing to do with these 301 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: vets that were that had nothing to do with my 302 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 3: brother or your father. It had to do with our leadership. 303 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: And this is not me analyzing this. Commandant David Shute 304 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 3: US Marine Commandant David Shupe Medal of Honor winner TARROWA. 305 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 3: Tarrowa World War Two Medal of honor. He was giving 306 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 3: speeches all over the United States in the nineteen sixties saying, 307 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 3: Hoaching then has a plan to beat us. They're fighting 308 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: that night. We can never beat the Vietnamese because they'll 309 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 3: spend twenty years in this war. They have nowhere to go. 310 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: And David Shoop, you'll see in the book, is tirelessly 311 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 3: saying LVJ and all these guys know that we can't win. 312 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: He said, this is not James Bradley, this is Commandant 313 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: Medal of Honor, David Shupe saying this war Vietnam is 314 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 3: not worth the life of one American man. We should 315 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: get out of there immediately. They're lying to you. The leadership, 316 00:19:54,280 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: the leadership of America, including the press, screwed the American veterans. 317 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: And that's the purpose of this book. I went and said, 318 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 3: how did you win? And I was shocked that David 319 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: Shupe and other guys were technically, strategically, tactically giving speeches 320 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 3: about how we knew we couldn't win. But there were 321 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 3: some top guys, you know. I mean, let's talk about 322 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 3: Brown and Root and Halliburton and Bell Helicopter and Lyndon 323 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 3: Johnson getting rich. You know, Johnson said to the Joint 324 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 3: Chiefs the Staff after they offed JFK. At nineteen sixty 325 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 3: three Christmas party in the White House, Johnson said to 326 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 3: the Joint Chiefs the Staff, you give me my election 327 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 3: and I'll give you your war. They wanted war because 328 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 3: it was just going to last a few months, and 329 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 3: it was going to test out some fancy weapons. And 330 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 3: they had no idea that they were going to toss 331 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 3: in the blood of you know, the guys I went 332 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 3: to high school with, and I'm pissed about it, and 333 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: somebody should be held to account. And it's not the veterans. 334 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 3: They were put in an impossible situation and this is 335 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: not again. You know, you can say James Bradley, never served, 336 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 3: doesn't know what he's talking about. Maybe I don't, but 337 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 3: Commandant David shupe knew what he was talking about, and 338 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 3: he said, this is a loser before we go in. 339 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I guess our next question is I'm 340 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: going to ask the question. It's gonna seem like a 341 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: stupid question, but I assure you I've spent a lot 342 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: of time pondering this, studying this in your heart of hearts, 343 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: Why do you think we were really there. 344 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 3: We were there because the Vietnam War. You know, if 345 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 3: you look at ken Burns and Walter Cronkite and all 346 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 3: these propaganda things. Kennedy was juggling some hot balls and 347 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: then it exploded in Johnson and all of a sudden, 348 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 3: you know, Tonking, No, no, no, no, no. Harry Truman 349 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: started the Vietnam War. We sent the equipment that was 350 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 3: out in the Pacific to Vietnam, and in August of 351 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: nineteen forty five, before even Japan surrendered all that equipment 352 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 3: out there, Charles de Gaulle said, we have to reassert 353 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 3: France in Vietnam. And Harry Truman, you know, where's Vietnam. 354 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: I don't know anything about Asia. I'm Harry Truman. And 355 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 3: Degall said, there's communists out there, and you got to 356 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 3: get him. So we supported France. Well, who was the 357 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 3: head of the Congressional Committee, the Naval Affairs Committee that 358 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 3: moved had equipment in nineteen forty five out to Vietnam. 359 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 3: It was a guy called Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon Johnson's Vietnam 360 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 3: War began in August of nineteen forty five, not nineteen 361 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 3: sixty four. We were supplying ninety percent of the French 362 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 3: costs of the Vietnam War. People say, oh, Vietnamization. Let's 363 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 3: see Vietnamization. That's Richard Nixon nineteen seventy No, no, no, no, no. 364 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 3: I'm looking at a photo of Richard Nixon in nineteen 365 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 3: fifty three in Vietnam when the French were losing and 366 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 3: they said, we have this plan called Vietnamization, and Nixon 367 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 3: and Eisenhawer said great, We'll give you all the money 368 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: you need. And then the French blew it at den 369 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 3: Ben pewed in nineteen fifty four. We fought the Vietnam 370 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: War for thirty years, nineteen forty five to nineteen seventy five. 371 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 2: Is it dan Benhou where the French were absolutely routed. 372 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, but that was all I interviewed guys. You'll see 373 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 3: in the book the Vietnamese winners are jumping over crates 374 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 3: at Denver and Puke, and it says in the USA 375 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 3: all that was when we were told the French were 376 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 3: doing that, right. I get you that. 377 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: I think that is consistent. 378 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: I think that tracks whatever they said because there was 379 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: an interest for the United States in keeping a colonial 380 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: power in Southeast Asia at that time, and the French 381 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: were trying to manage the last remnants of their empire. 382 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: They were also having they also had a lot of 383 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: trouble in Africa at the same time. In our involvement 384 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: to a limited extent, not in a little less than 385 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: Lynn Lease in World War Two, but there's no doubt 386 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: that there was involvement. James Bradley is our guest. His 387 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: book is called Precious Freedom, a Novel. He's the author 388 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: of Flags of Our Fathers. And we will continue our 389 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: conversation with him for one more segment coming Home. Joe Kungla, 390 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: Michael Bay, Good Show, Bablum. James Ridley's our guest. He's 391 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: the author of Flags of Our Fathers. He's written a 392 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: new book about the Vietnam War called Precious Freedom, a Novel. James, 393 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: I want to get into a couple of things that 394 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: are not as much in the book, But about the book, 395 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: I've talked a little bit about the Vietnam veterans. I 396 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: have a number of Vietnam veterans in our listening audience. 397 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: Have you have you tested this with the Vietnam I'm 398 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: just curious how what the response of Vietnam veterans has been. 399 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: It's clear to me, your intentions are pure, but I'm 400 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: just curious what it's been. 401 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 3: They finally know the truth. Sad to say, I'm the 402 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: only American author that went to Vietnam and said, how 403 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 3: did you win? The American narrative if you read two 404 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 3: hundred books on Vietnam, it's boy. I went there and 405 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 3: we did all the stuff, and boy it was really 406 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 3: but they don't get to the bottom line, you know, 407 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 3: but we lost. It didn't work out. So we were 408 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: doing all these technically amazing things. The vets performed well, 409 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: the soldiers and marines performed like they were trained. But 410 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 3: if you put them in a situation where they cannot win, 411 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 3: and you know that in advance these guys, we should 412 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 3: burn down the LBJ library. McNamara should be dug up. 413 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: If you read this book, and our Vietnam veterans should 414 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 3: be honored. The Vietnam vets who have looked at this 415 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 3: book love it because they finally know. Oliver Stone says 416 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: about this book and on the back cover he says, 417 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 3: if we knew back in the sixties, well, James Bradley 418 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 3: has revealed, we American mothers would have never sent their 419 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 3: sons to Iraq and Afghanistan. This twenty years is screwing 420 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 3: around thirty years in Vietnam, twenty years in Afghanistan. These 421 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: are deaths, these are limbs that are lost. And it's 422 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 3: not the fault of the fighting men and women. It 423 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: is the fault of our leadership, and that includes the media. 424 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 3: And you'll see it in the book. How is it 425 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 3: possible that a Medal of Honor winner is giving speeches 426 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 3: in America? He said, the Joint Chiefs we looked at 427 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 3: Vietnam and we said there's absolutely no way we can win. 428 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 3: So what Johnson did is cleaned out that Joint Chiefs 429 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 3: of Staff and got a bunch of guys who would 430 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 3: agree to go in Vietnam. He had to pump up, 431 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 3: you know, those suitcases of cash. And there's many other reasons. 432 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: The book is special novel by the author of Flags 433 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: of Our Fathers. James Bradley, You've made a reference in 434 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: our first segment today, and I want to explore you 435 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: made you bundled the Cia ken Burns and Walter Kronkite. 436 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: I have a very very healthy skepticism of a lot 437 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: of people who are supposed at historians or newsmen, and 438 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: I think that the CIA has caused us many problems 439 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: abroad in and lied to the American people in order 440 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: to still be able to get young men to go 441 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: and fight their wars. What was your meaning behind ken 442 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: Burns and Walter Kronkite? And the suggestion was that not 443 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: only were they not perhaps being honest about what was 444 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: happening in Vietnam, but that they were reading from a 445 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: CIA script. I don't want to put words in your mouth. 446 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: That's the sense I got. 447 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 3: Well, CIA script. It's like, if you want to be 448 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 3: in the game, you got to play with these guys. 449 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 3: I mean the ken Burns thing. I was living in 450 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: Vietnam when that when that documentary came out, and it 451 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 3: was like hot heels of lives the American vets, why 452 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 3: it with me in Vietnam? Most of the so called 453 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 3: Vietnamese telling the truth and the ken Burns documentary are 454 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 3: CIA connected. There's a woman whose husband was you know, 455 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 3: working you know, I mean it would take twenty minutes 456 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 3: to do the names and the connections. But ken Burns 457 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: flew in and out of Vietnam. You know who was 458 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 3: in the editing room with ken Burns. The John McCain's 459 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 3: ghostwriter Mark Salter. Yeah, Ken, you can say this. Yeah, 460 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: Senator McCain approves this and that. You know, how are 461 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 3: you going to get on PBS public broadcasting systems supported 462 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 3: by the United States government and tell the truth about Vietnam? 463 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 3: If they told the truth about Vietnam on PBS, they'd 464 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 3: burned down the LBJ library. This is three to five 465 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: million Vietnamese dead, fifty eight thousand Americans on the wall. 466 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 3: There's three hundred thousand wounded Americans wheelchairs, crutches, and the 467 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 3: military knew. The top ranks of the military had all agreed, well, 468 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 3: we can't win this puppy, but we'll just throw the 469 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 3: American boys into the Charnel House here and see what happens. 470 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: It is very troubling to me to think how many 471 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: people of my father's generation and now over the last 472 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: particularly the last twenty five years. You know, I go 473 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: back to as late as as the botched Afghanistan would 474 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: draw and I think of how many men with the 475 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: best of intentions from small towns all across Texas, the 476 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: South and the country, who when we were attacked on 477 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: nine to eleven, or when they see the news of 478 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: America being attacked their inner sheep dog comes out, and 479 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: they are willing to give no greater love hath any 480 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: man than it laid on his life for a friend. 481 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: They're willing to give the one thing that they have, 482 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: which is their life, for their country. And I think 483 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: we should honor that by never taking them up on 484 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: it unless it is absolutely necessary. And I see these 485 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: conflicts that are started on false premises, and by the way, 486 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: I think you can make mistakes. I think we learned 487 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: a lot of things in Vietnam that maybe were different 488 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: than we expected. But I think you owe a duty 489 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: to these young men and their commitment and their sacrifice 490 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: to say, all right, let's pull back. When Nixon begins 491 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: bombing in Cambodia, because it's a parallel pathway without congressional authority, 492 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: that is an overstep on a level that I don't 493 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: see any way you come back from. You are the 494 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: complete imperial presidency at that point, and if Congress does 495 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: not rein that in I don't care Domino theory or not, 496 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: Kissinger or whatever or not. 497 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: That to me is a very very bad moment. 498 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 3: There. My dad fought on the Rejima. There were colonels 499 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 3: in front of him. There were colonels getting shot, getting 500 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 3: blown up, you know, leading. Come on, boys, they were 501 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 3: right out in front Vietnam. The colonels were in air 502 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 3: conditioned helicopters. You know, you boys, go out there. The 503 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 3: colonels weren't leading. The military changed, Michael. After World War Two. 504 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 3: It's a different military now. There was like one I mean, 505 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 3: look at the general failures we have. Now, there was like, 506 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 3: you know, like twelve generals running the World War two 507 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 3: something like that, five stars, you know. I mean, I'm 508 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 3: getting off on the statistics. But now there's all sorts 509 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 3: of generals and admirals all over I have been to 510 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 3: the bases all over the world. We've got you know, 511 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 3: a thousand bases with burger kings and schools and you know, 512 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: paved roads and you know, people taking care of apartment buildings. 513 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 3: We have an empire. When my dad fought, it was 514 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 3: the War Department and we knew how to do it. 515 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 3: And there were generals getting killed and colonel's getting killed 516 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 3: leading from the firm Vietnam. No, they pushed those boys 517 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 3: out there and said you do it. 518 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And that was James Bradley. I'm up 519 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 2: against the clock. I appreciate your time. Okay. He's the 520 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 2: author of Flags of our Fathers. 521 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: His newest book is Precious Freedom, a novel about the 522 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: Vietnam Book