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Speaker 1: In this episode of news World. In the new film

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Speaker 1: Leap of Faith, twelve diverse Christian leaders find hope and

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Speaker 1: fellowship at a series of boundary breaking retreats in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Five women and seven men struggle with some of today's

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Speaker 1: most contentious issues. The divisions between them become apparent and

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Speaker 1: tests both their common belief in the universal importance of

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Speaker 1: love and kindness and the bonds they build over the

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Speaker 1: course of a year. Inspiring and provocative, Leap of Faith

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Speaker 1: explores whether we can disagree and still belong to each

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Speaker 1: other in a divided world. The film directed and produced

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Speaker 1: by my guest Nicholas mah He is an award winning director, writer,

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Speaker 1: and producer based in Brooklyn. He produced the documentary Won't

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Speaker 1: You Be My Neighbor about the life of Fred Rogers,

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Speaker 1: which premiered at the twenty eighteen Sundance Film Festival, and

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Speaker 1: most recently the WNBA documentary Unfinished Business, which premiered at

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty two Tribeca Film Festival. Nicholas, welcome and

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining me on Newtsworld.

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Speaker 2: Glad to be here, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have to start with what you used to

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Speaker 1: do before you began your filmmaking career. As I was

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Speaker 1: learning by your career in preparation of this interview, I

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Speaker 1: understand you covered global economic policy on the Senate Foreign

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Speaker 1: Relations Committee after working as a consultant in New York

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Speaker 1: and Shanghai. That's a pretty cool career.

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Speaker 2: A very different one. Yeah, you know, I think it's

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Speaker 2: important if you want to make documentaries to vols spent

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Speaker 2: time in the world and experience it, not just to

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Speaker 2: look at it from the sidelines.

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Speaker 1: Since you're in Brooklyn, did you find Shanghai a real education? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think the joke is that everyone feels like they're

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Speaker 2: in Shanghai at the inflection point in the city because

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Speaker 2: it grows and changes so quickly. And I was there

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Speaker 2: from seven to nine, and I felt like, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I came, you know, pizza was catch up on toast,

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Speaker 2: and when I left, it was the largest importer of

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Speaker 2: Neapolitan pizza ovens in the world. So you know, it's

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Speaker 2: constantly changing. And I think so often in the US

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Speaker 2: we have been a place that has embraced change and

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Speaker 2: sort of kept pace and set the pace for change.

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Speaker 2: And then being in Shanghai was a rude awakening of

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Speaker 2: just how fast change can be.

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Speaker 1: Klosetight were there a couple of years ago. Shanghai on

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Speaker 1: Friday Night is a lot like New York. At least

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Speaker 1: the part of the city we were in is remarkably

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Speaker 1: modern and remarkably part of the larger world.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, And.

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Speaker 1: As a historian I found it fun to go down

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Speaker 1: along the river and see the old buildings. It's both

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Speaker 1: a city of the future and a city of the past,

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Speaker 1: although a more recent past than most of China.

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Speaker 2: That's true, and it's managed to keep that flavor more

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Speaker 2: so than some of the other large cities.

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Speaker 1: So you're busy covering global economic policy, and then you

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Speaker 1: go to film in What was going on in your head?

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Speaker 1: What led you? Had you always secretly wanted to do

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Speaker 1: film or did that suddenly hit.

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Speaker 2: You No, I had always wanted to do it. I

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Speaker 2: think I was scared of sort of living in the

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Speaker 2: cultural space and having the courage to sort of say

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Speaker 2: I want to tell stories. It's you know, I came

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Speaker 2: from a family of people in culture, and that felt,

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Speaker 2: you know, like an intimidating choice, and I thought I'd

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Speaker 2: forge my own path. I think when you live in DC.

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Speaker 2: You do realize though, the power of storytelling, right, You

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Speaker 2: realize that everything is far too complicated, and so you

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Speaker 2: have to find a way of telling a story that

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Speaker 2: can have a kind of emotional truth to it, even

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Speaker 2: if you can't fully summarize all of the nuance of

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Speaker 2: an issue. And the same thing making a veritane documentary, right,

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Speaker 2: you have hundreds of hours of footage and you have

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Speaker 2: to condense it to ninety minutes. That feels true, but

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Speaker 2: of course is going to leave out hundreds of hours

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Speaker 2: of conversation.

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Speaker 1: So you have picked a topic which I think is

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Speaker 1: wonderful in terms of a gentler and more positive America.

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Speaker 1: And that's Fred Rogers. What got you to think about that?

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Speaker 1: Had he influenced your childhood very much? So?

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Speaker 2: He was the one thirty minutes a day where I

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Speaker 2: think I felt most calm and at peace, which was

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Speaker 2: I think save my parents many days to sort of

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Speaker 2: have those thirty minutes to themselves too. But you know

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Speaker 2: there was a way in which somehow he could speak

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Speaker 2: so universally to such universal ideas, and yet they would

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Speaker 2: feel so specific to a child, whether you were living

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Speaker 2: in downtown Chicago or in Nebraska or in Texas or

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Speaker 2: where we were in Massachusetts. You know, somehow he seemed

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Speaker 2: to speak to the essence of what children needed to hear.

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Speaker 1: When you were doing the documentary Won't You be My Neighbor?

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Speaker 1: Did you learn things about Fred Rogers that surprised you?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? I think there are two beautiful sort of surprises

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Speaker 2: about Fred. One is the importance of his faith, right.

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Speaker 2: I think we forget that he's a Presbyterian minister, and

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Speaker 2: because he was so careful to make sure that the

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Speaker 2: way he spoke to children didn't have the valance of

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Speaker 2: his personal faith, and really inhumanist, universal terms, it's easy

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Speaker 2: to not realize just how connected it is to the

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Speaker 2: books that were on his shelf, books by people like

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Speaker 2: Henry Now and by Bonhoeffer, etc. That sort of shaped

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Speaker 2: the way he thought about the world and how love

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Speaker 2: operates in the world. And the second is how much

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Speaker 2: he was committed to his own personal growth. Right. He

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Speaker 2: was never attached to saying I know everything now, And

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Speaker 2: I think perhaps it is that love command of his

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Speaker 2: being able to say, if I love you, it means

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Speaker 2: there must be something that being in relationship with you

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Speaker 2: will teach me. And he was always open to that experience,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's a really hard thing to do.

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Speaker 2: I find it hard to do personally, and I really

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Speaker 2: admire that. To see one's life as being not a

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Speaker 2: fixed position but sort of a vector that points towards

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Speaker 2: something is hard, but I think a really admirable quality.

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Speaker 1: Well, you went from that, which was very well received,

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Speaker 1: But now you're picking and choosing topics. How did you

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Speaker 1: pick the next couple of films? How do you say

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Speaker 1: yes to this and not to that.

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Speaker 2: My mentor and the producer on Leap of Faith, Morgan Neville,

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Speaker 2: always reminded me that with a film, you're essentially getting

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Speaker 2: a graduate degree in a topic. So it's better be

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Speaker 2: something that you're interested enough in to sustain you over

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Speaker 2: a couple of years because you're stuck with it. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's really wise advice. I think I'm always

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Speaker 2: interested in stories of people that are trying to do

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Speaker 2: something really difficult, and where if it's difficult enough, whether

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Speaker 2: they succeed or fail becomes less relevant than the journey

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Speaker 2: of watching them try.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you get bored by the topic.

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Speaker 2: They're going to get bored, absolutely, So.

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Speaker 1: It'd better be something that you have some level of passion.

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Speaker 2: About exactly, and they will feel it. They will feel

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Speaker 2: it because all of a sudden, something will become a

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Speaker 2: little trite or a little cliche or a little bit

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Speaker 2: phoned in, and you know, all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 2: feel like it's an advertisement or like it's a schlocky piece,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to something that sort of keeps gripping you

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Speaker 2: as you go through it.

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Speaker 1: What something pops in your head and your boy, that

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Speaker 1: would be an interesting documentary, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a feeling. For me, it's do I

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Speaker 2: want to feel this feeling. I think film is an

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Speaker 2: emotional medium. It's not really an analytical medium. It can

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Speaker 2: be both. It can convey information, but I think one

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Speaker 2: of the things that it does uniquely well is to

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Speaker 2: convey an emotional experience. Right. That experience can be melancholy

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Speaker 2: or fear or joy or It's not that it's only

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Speaker 2: one emotion, but it can convey emotions that are hard

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Speaker 2: to convey simply with words or in an essay or

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Speaker 2: in an article or a speech. So I think often

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Speaker 2: at the core of each of these films is a

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Speaker 2: feeling that I am longing for or curious about, and

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Speaker 2: that I think is when I know that it connects

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Speaker 2: to the story. The story can be intellectually interesting to me,

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Speaker 2: but unless I know what is the feeling that is

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Speaker 2: at the core of this, then it doesn't feel like

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Speaker 2: a film. When those two things come together, then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, I'm like, ah, Now this has the

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Speaker 2: kind of juxtaposition of sort of head and heart that

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Speaker 2: can take at the distance, it's a beautiful day in

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Speaker 2: this neighbor, A beautiful day for a neighbor.

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Speaker 1: Would you be mine? Could you be mine? When you

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Speaker 1: made Won't You Be My Neighbor? Do you have any

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Speaker 1: idea that to become the twelfth largest grossing documentary? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's grossed over twenty two million dollars, and I should

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Speaker 1: say it's still available streaming on Netflix. Did you have

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Speaker 1: any idea would be that successful? No?

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Speaker 2: And I think if you try to make something like

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Speaker 2: that often it can fall flat. I think we knew,

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Speaker 2: probably a little bit before the world knew that it

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Speaker 2: was going to be successful, just because we kept on

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Speaker 2: finding unusual audiences that it spoke to right that all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, you'd share a movie that was made

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Speaker 2: by Morgan and me and Karen, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: it's speaking to someone that you didn't think it was

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Speaker 2: going to speak to, or that you didn't know, and

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Speaker 2: you realize, Okay, now there's something within this. There's a

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Speaker 2: power within this that we're becoming aware of, and that's

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Speaker 2: a really special things. So I think we probably had

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a heads up, but no, I

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Speaker 2: don't think we knew from the beginning. And I think

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Speaker 2: if we had thought that it was going to be

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Speaker 2: from the beginning, you then make choices that actually dull

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Speaker 2: the overall experience because you're so keen to make something

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Speaker 2: feel universal that it doesn't have the kind of life

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Speaker 2: and vivacity to it that it needs to.

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Speaker 1: And won't you be my neighbor? One of the themes

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Speaker 1: is love. Did that consciously carry over to your new

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Speaker 1: film Leap of Faith?

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Speaker 2: It's more in hindsight that I know that you know?

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Speaker 2: I think after screening what you be my neighbors? So

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Speaker 2: many times one of the questions people would always ask

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Speaker 2: is where the Fred Rogers of today? And I didn't

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Speaker 2: have a good answer, but I didn't like the kind

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Speaker 2: of pessimism that it created that people would sort of say,

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Speaker 2: we can't have nice things if only we had fred

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Speaker 2: back kind of thing. I don't like that rear view

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Speaker 2: mirror feeling. And so I think it meant that I

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Speaker 2: was primed when I read about Michael's work in the

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Speaker 2: Colossian Forums work to see it as something that looked forward,

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Speaker 2: and that was exciting to me. You know, it's like

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Speaker 2: a different way of being together that we don't see

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Speaker 2: very often, and that I'm not even sure we believe

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Speaker 2: as possible, and I'm not sure I believed was possible,

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Speaker 2: And so I was curious to sort of investigate that

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Speaker 2: as sort of you know, what is the compliment and

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Speaker 2: won't you be my neighbor? What is the grown up

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Speaker 2: version that we're looking for today?

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Speaker 1: In some way, you're looking at twelve really diverse Christian leaders.

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Speaker 1: You have five women, seven men. I don't know much

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Speaker 1: about this, but they're brought together by Michael Golker of

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Speaker 1: the Colossian Form. What is the Colossian Forum.

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Speaker 2: It's an organization that takes as its inspiration Scripture right

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Speaker 2: Colossians one seventeen, All things hold together in Christ. Their

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Speaker 2: point is, let's make that true on earth. Right, Let's

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Speaker 2: bring congregations together, Let's bring people together. They had never

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Speaker 2: done it with a group of pastors. They had never

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Speaker 2: done it with this diverse group, and I think as

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Speaker 2: they watch sort of the tenuousness of how our country

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Speaker 2: is holding together and how Ristianity is holding together right now,

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Speaker 2: they wanted to try something bigger, and so they brought

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Speaker 2: these twelve pastors together and that's where sort of the

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Speaker 2: film came in, where we said, look that if you're

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Speaker 2: willing to bring them together and ask them to be

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Speaker 2: on camera from the beginning, there's a story there because

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Speaker 2: I think it's something that all of us are curious.

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Speaker 2: What would happen if we actually spoke to each other

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Speaker 2: and is there something on the other side of that

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Speaker 2: or do we all just have to walk away at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day and sort of take our

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Speaker 2: marbles and go home.

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Speaker 1: So, if in fact the dialogue had failed, you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have had a film.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it would have been a film with

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Speaker 2: a very different emotional core.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, But as it is, you found a level

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Speaker 1: of commitment and a level of mutual concern that I

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Speaker 1: think is pretty surprising and encouraging given everything we're living in.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right, you know, I think about it

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Speaker 2: a lot like having kids. You know, you have a child,

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Speaker 2: and everyone tells you it's really hard, it's exhausting, but

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Speaker 2: it's also wonderful. I think people don't tell you that

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Speaker 2: about having friends that are different from you. Most people

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Speaker 2: tell you have a friend who believes that, you know,

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Speaker 2: get them out of your life. It's not worth it,

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Speaker 2: not worth the time. And I think what I learned

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Speaker 2: in watching these pastors over the course of a year

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Speaker 2: is it's really worth it. What they mean to each

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Speaker 2: other at the end of that process. Unexpected as it is,

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Speaker 2: you know, they would go to the mat for each

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Speaker 2: other even though they still disagree really profoundly on stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I think we need that ballast right now.

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Speaker 1: Here are twelve people allowing you to film them. Now,

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Speaker 1: do they have any editorial rights or it's all you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a leap of faith.

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Speaker 1: At the very beginning. How did you build that kind

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Speaker 1: of trust? I mean, the idea that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go in and have a totally open conversation and have

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Speaker 1: this guy I don't really know filming me and then

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Speaker 1: he gets to edit me. I mean, they were really

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Speaker 1: investing a lot of hope in you.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, But I think that there is sort of a

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Speaker 2: beauty in that, you know, doing the same thing here

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Speaker 2: in a sense, right, you know, we're having a conversation

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Speaker 2: where I don't know where you're going to take it

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Speaker 2: or what you're going to ask, but I have a

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Speaker 2: faith that our conversation is going to yield something interesting

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Speaker 2: and beautiful. And I think that assumption, that decision actually

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Speaker 2: has a kind of power. I think the very fact

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Speaker 2: that the pastors explicitly said we're trusting you put a

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Speaker 2: kind of onus on me to do right by that

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Speaker 2: trust right and say, okay, look, I don't want anyone

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Speaker 2: to seem like a villain or flattened by this experience.

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Speaker 1: How often did they meet and how.

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Speaker 2: Long they were meeting? Basically monthly sometimes more. They had

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Speaker 2: three big retreats, week long retreats where they all were

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Speaker 2: together for a number of days at a time.

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Speaker 1: How many total hours of film did you have?

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Speaker 2: I think a little over three hundred hours of film?

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Speaker 1: And how long is the documentary?

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Speaker 2: Ninety minutes?

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Speaker 1: So you have the same problem, which is you've probably

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Speaker 1: had four or five documentaries worth of great stuff, but

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Speaker 1: you couldn't get an audience to watch six hours.

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Speaker 2: That's right. The number of people that were like, you

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Speaker 2: should make a series out of this, and I thought

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Speaker 2: to myself, tell me that you would watch a series

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Speaker 2: out of this and we can talk. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I think there's also a kind of discipline to that distillation.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It makes you ask the questions of really, what was

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Speaker 2: this about, because otherwise it becomes a survey course. Right,

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Speaker 2: you know, here are seventeen topics, and let's go through

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Speaker 2: them one after another.

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Speaker 1: You could create an archival website with all three hundred

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Speaker 1: hours and people who are fascinated by the ninety if

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Speaker 1: they wanted to, or if graduate students who were into

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Speaker 1: this stuff. It's the greatest of all gradual worlds. You

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Speaker 1: too get to sit for three hundred hours and try

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Speaker 1: to figure out how it fits into a dissertation exactly.

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Speaker 2: You know, we would happily make footage available to someone

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Speaker 2: who wanted to study. And I think sort of a

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Speaker 2: halfway point between that. The Calaution Forum has podcasts with

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Speaker 2: each of the pastors, So if you want to double

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Speaker 2: down on anyone, there's sort of sixty to ninety minutes

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Speaker 2: with each of them.

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Speaker 1: You must have some sense of exhilaration when it's done.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the package. I mean, what does that

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Speaker 1: feel like?

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Speaker 2: You know, one of the strange things about a movie

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Speaker 2: is you're not there when most people are seeing it, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not like a live performance, and so

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Speaker 2: the exhilaration for me is engaging with someone who's just

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Speaker 2: watched the movie and hearing their reaction, and that, to

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Speaker 2: me is where I feel a kind of deep contentment

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Speaker 2: and satisfaction. Right. The stories are terrible, right, like one

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Speaker 2: in six people stop talking to a family member in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, one and four after twenty twenty. We've only

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Speaker 2: screened it a handful of times at this point. It's

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Speaker 2: now in theaters and obviously that'll grow. But the number

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Speaker 2: of families that have reconnected after watching this movie is

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Speaker 2: really startling. One guy said, I was estranged from my parents,

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Speaker 2: and I texted them during the movie and we saw

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Speaker 2: each other the next day for three hours. Right, that's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: And you know, obviously the movie isn't about family dynamics.

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Speaker 2: It's special pastors. But that's a beautiful thing.

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Speaker 1: The very first time you show one of your documentaries,

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Speaker 1: do you have a certain amount of butterflies about how

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Speaker 1: the audience will react?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, yes, yes, not only that you have

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Speaker 2: these butterflies and then they're upended because an audience is

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Speaker 2: always different from what you think. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: people are laughing in moments that you didn't expect them

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Speaker 2: to laugh. They're crying in moments that you didn't expect

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Speaker 2: them to cry when it's good, and that's like heartening,

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Speaker 2: but also increases both the butterflies and the adrenaline because

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh, this is now a new thing than

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Speaker 2: it was in a small room, you know, with your

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Speaker 2: editor months and months at a time trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out should we move this scene here? Should we flop

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Speaker 2: these two soundbites?

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Speaker 1: Your father Yo Yama is extraordinary from a world figure.

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Speaker 1: What was it like growing up with that level of performance,

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Speaker 1: talent and sheer ability?

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Speaker 2: You know? I think it's part of why I went

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Speaker 2: into consulting in politics, because he was not active in

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Speaker 2: those spaces.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think it's taken me most of my adult life

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Speaker 2: to see the path that he's forged as a gift

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Speaker 2: and not a burden. And I think it will always

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Speaker 2: be a little bit of both, But to see that

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Speaker 2: and not be intimidated by it and feel like that

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Speaker 2: makes me to compare myself against it and instead to say, wow,

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Speaker 2: how beautiful to see that someone cared to be this

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Speaker 2: kind of person in the world. And I'm always going

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Speaker 2: to be a different person. But it doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: I can't take heart from that and say, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: can try to be a similar kind of person in

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Speaker 2: the world too. In my own way. I think it's

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Speaker 2: taken me a long time to see that as a

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Speaker 2: really joyful coincidence versus one that felt threatening.

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Speaker 1: There are some people who become so large that it's

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Speaker 1: a challenge. It doesn't mean you don't love them, but

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Speaker 1: it's just almost overpowering. I think at times.

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Speaker 2: It's true, and it has been for me at times.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's very clever on your part at a

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Speaker 1: pretty early age to go. I think Alvino Zoni's not

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Speaker 1: in so you're comfortable over here, you know, consulting and

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Speaker 1: working in the Senate, nobody's rushing up to you and

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Speaker 1: automatically being intimidated, and you get to forge who you

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Speaker 1: are absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I think the question is, then how do you then

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Speaker 2: make the subsequent decision right? How do you make decisions

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Speaker 2: that are not that are your own and aren't sculpted

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Speaker 2: by either a fear or an allure being close or

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Speaker 2: far away from this person.

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Speaker 1: Those initial early stages, you're neither trying to make a

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Speaker 1: decision to reject him or to affirm him. You're trying

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Speaker 1: to make a decision about who you are, and that

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Speaker 1: that is being able to maturely sidestep the two great

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Speaker 1: options exactly. That's pretty remarkable comment on you.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's kind of you to say. I think it

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Speaker 2: is something that I've struggled with, and I'm grateful to

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Speaker 2: have found my way to where I am today. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you see many many young people struggle with this issue,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just people who are as famous as you.

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Speaker 1: Your mom, me and my dad was a career soldier

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Speaker 1: for twenty four years, and I was surrounded by the

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Speaker 1: army as I grew up, and it took a while

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Speaker 1: to sort of sort all that out and figure out

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Speaker 1: which parts were me and which parts were the things

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Speaker 1: around me that I hadn't even thought about. So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting phoen that sense, given how many

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Speaker 1: cool things you're doing and the fact that leap offaithmovie

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Speaker 1: dot com is a place people can go to to

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Speaker 1: get tickets and watching this upward curve as you're getting

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Speaker 1: better and better. Do you have a sense yet of

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Speaker 1: what your next documentary will be? I don't.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm so laser like focused on this and

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Speaker 2: making sure that it reaches audiences. I know that it

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Speaker 2: will fall in the same world. And I don't mean faith,

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Speaker 2: but this question of like doing incredibly difficult things and

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Speaker 2: watching that process, right, I mean, it's funny. Someone asked

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Speaker 2: me about doing a documentary on the four chairs of

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Speaker 2: the appropriations committees in Congress and how does the money

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Speaker 2: get spent? And I always thought that was such a

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Speaker 2: fascinating idea. I think the challenge is always how do

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Speaker 2: you find people that are willing to be vulnerable and

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Speaker 2: willing to expose what's hard in an effort to show

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Speaker 2: what's beautiful. And so that's what I'm always looking for.

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Speaker 2: Who's willing to do that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe in that case, to find four retired chairs.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: They have all the knowledge and none of the risk exactly.

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Speaker 2: But of course it's the risk that we see as

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Speaker 2: a viewer that makes us lean in. I can't believe

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Speaker 2: they're saying that. I can't believe they're telling you that.

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Speaker 1: If you could find a way to get permission, maybe

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Speaker 1: working with the House historian, could you actually tape a

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Speaker 1: real negotiating session and then interview the people who afterwards

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Speaker 1: know what were you thinking, how did you do it,

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Speaker 1: what were your goals? You might produce something very profound.

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Speaker 2: Who knows. But I think we underestimate what happens in

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Speaker 2: those rooms, how hard it is, how dull it is,

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Speaker 2: how long it is. And it's important to see these

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Speaker 2: things work because, just like hearing pastors talk, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, we realize the humanity behind everyone. And I

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Speaker 2: think when you tell stories that are very specific, whether

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Speaker 2: it's what happens inside of how Senate conference or whether

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Speaker 2: it's what happens with twelve pastors, they become universal more easily,

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Speaker 2: you know, And all of a sudden we say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I can't just write off people who are going to

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Speaker 2: vote for someone other than me, that sort of to

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Speaker 2: deny their very humanity. That doesn't work. I can't write

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Speaker 2: off someone who has a different belief It doesn't even

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Speaker 2: have to agree with them, but I can't write them

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Speaker 2: off as human beings. It's a very scary thing to

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Speaker 2: do to somebody.

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Speaker 1: I think the heart of what makes a free society

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Speaker 1: different is that you have to try to find some

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Speaker 1: way to understand each other's common humanity.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree.

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00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: It's not as clear to me when you're dealing with

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00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: people who genuinely want to kill you. But I think

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00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: inside the framework of something like America, you really have

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00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: to work over time, and that's part of why Clinton

446
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: and I were able to reach across partisanship and you

447
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: do things like balance the budget for four straight years.

448
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: We had to meet thirty five days face to face

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00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: and listen to each other's stories and try to understand,

450
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, and then walk off and figure out, well,

451
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: what does that mean? And it takes that kind of

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00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: vulnerability and that kind of intensity. I have a hunt.

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00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: You're at the beginning of an extraordinary career. You have

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00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: the rhythm here, you have the understanding both of what

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00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: makes movies a unique vehicle and of how to find

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00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: stories that draw people in and make them feel enriched

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00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: by having experienced you.

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Speaker 2: I'm very grateful to hear you say that. I admire

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00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: what you said about working for thirty five days. You

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00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: don't know day twelve that there's going to be something

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00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: at the end of day thirty five.

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00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: Actually you don't know day thirty four right, because we

463
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: might have gone sixty days. What we did know is

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00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: we were both committed for the country and we weren't

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00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: going to quit. We didn't know when the end would come,

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00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: but we knew we weren't going to quit until we

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Speaker 1: got there. I want to thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 1: This has been delightful. Your new film, Leap of Faith

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00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: is remarkable. It's in theaters now. Our listeners can watch

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00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: the trailer and purchase theater tickets at Leap of faithmovie

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00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: dot com. That's Leap of faithmovie dot com, and we'll

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00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: also have it posted on our show page. So thank

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00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: you for joining me, and I look forward to your

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00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: next great adventure.

475
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: I look forward to sharing it with you.

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00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Nicholas Ma. You can get

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00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: a link to buy tickets to his new film Leap

478
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: of Faith on our show page at Newtsworld dot com.

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00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: News World is produced by Gingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia.

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00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Guardnsei Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson.

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00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley,

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00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 1: special thanks to the team at Gingrish three sixty. If

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00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple

484
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give

485
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my

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00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: three free weekly columns at gingwishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter.

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00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.