1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to tex Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: This season of Smart Talks with IBM is all about 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: new creators, the developers, data scientists, c t o s 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: and other visionaries creatively applying technology in business to drive change. 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: They use their knowledge and creativity to develop better ways 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: of working, no matter the industry. Join hosts from your 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: favorite Pushkin Industries podcasts as they use their expertise to 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: deepen these conversations, and of course Malcolm Gladwell will guide 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: you through the season as your host and provide his 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: thoughts and analysis along the way. Look out for new 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: episodes of Smart Talks with IBM on the I Heart 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: and learn more at IBM dot com slash smart talks. Hello, Hello, 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Smart Talks with IBM podcast Bushkin Industries, Ighart 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Radio and IBM. I'm Malcolm Glabo. This season, we're talking 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: to the new creators, the developers, data scientists, c t 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: o s and other visionaries who are creatively applying technology 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: and business to drive change. Channeling their knowledge and expertise, 19 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: they are developing more creative and effective solutions, no matter 20 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: the industry. On the final episode of the season. Our 21 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: guest is NASA astronaut and retired Army Colonel Mark Bandahi. 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: Mark holds the record for the longest single space flight 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: undertaken by an American. He spent three hundred and fifty 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: five days in orbit on the International Space Station, returning 25 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: to Earth on March thirty. During his nearly year long 26 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: stay in space, Mark conducted scientific experiments on behalf of NASA, 27 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: including research where he himself was the test subject. By 28 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: documenting the physiological changes he went through, Mark serves as 29 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: an important source of data and understanding the impact of 30 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: extended spaceflight on humans. I spoke with Mark about his 31 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: experience as an astronaut and what he learned from living 32 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: in space for a year. He told me about performing 33 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: research only doable in space, times he felt true fear, 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: and how seeing Earth from orbit challenged his personal beliefs 35 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: and led him to become an advocate for mental health 36 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: and sustainability. Okay, let's get to the interview, So tell 37 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: me a little bit. Did you always want to be 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: an astronaut? What? What? What drew you to space in 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: the first place. I was always curious about space, largely 40 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: because just trying to get my head wrapped around how 41 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: we fit into the very grandest scheme of things has 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: always been interesting to me. But I always thought of 43 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: becoming an astronaut, like trying to become Spider Man. Like 44 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: that's just not a realistic idea. It might sound cool, 45 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: but that's like a superhero thing. So when I first 46 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: joined the Army, my company commander, my boss, handed me 47 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: a note because he knew I had a degree in 48 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: in a technical field. That was a message from the 49 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: Army saying that NASA wanted military people with these qualifications 50 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: to apply to the ASTERNAT program. And I looked at 51 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: the list and I had a bunch of them. That 52 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: made me really excited. I thought, that's like, that's a possibility. 53 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: And then um, when I went to grad school, had 54 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: a lot of different things to possibly study, and it 55 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: showed space physics, and just randomly, the Army said, Hey, 56 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: we're starting a new career field called space operations. I 57 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: signed up and got accepted to go into space operations, 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: and I ended up getting loaned out to the Aston 59 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: office at NASA to work in the Mischi Control Center, which, honestly, 60 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: I love that job so much that I could be 61 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: doing that till and never having been an astro, and 62 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: felt like I was super blessed. It was amazing to 63 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: live in history and just talking to the astronauts in space, 64 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: helping them solve problems while I'm listening to what the 65 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: flight control team is doing. That's a fantastic job. I 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: absolutely loved it. During the three year period that I 67 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: expected to do that, they're hired another class and that 68 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: was That was the first time I decided to apply, 69 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: and largely because my wife said, Mark, come on, you 70 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: gotta try. Because I thought there's no way they would 71 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: ever hire me, so I almost self selected myself out 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: of that possibility. So really, I feel very very fortunate. 73 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: I could have very easily not pursued this. I'm very 74 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: happy it worked out, and I'm very happy I did 75 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: pursue it. There's thousands of people that could do this 76 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: job that never got the opportunity and may have done 77 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: a better job than I did. I just somehow got 78 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: the job. Yeah. Now, you had the record for the 79 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: longest time in space, right, it's the record for an 80 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: American astronut for the longest single flight. So Scott Kelly 81 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: flew for three and forty days continuously, and I threw 82 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: flew for three and fifty five days continuously. What is 83 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: it about you that allows you to do that? Like 84 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you I'm I'm I'm gonna say, if 85 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: you put me through the exact same training you went through, 86 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: there's no way I'm spending three days I would have, 87 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: I would lose my mind. I think what I'm gonna 88 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: do is compare myself between the first flight and the 89 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: second flight. After I came back from the first flight, 90 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: I had no desire to go back. The big change 91 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: for me between the first and second flight is I 92 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: paid a lot more attention to my mental health. I 93 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: got in the habit of meditating every day, and I 94 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: think that helped me not only recognize the value of 95 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: trying to appreciate the present moment and try to be 96 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: curious about the present moment, but it also made me 97 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: more aware of what internal habit patterns I have, and 98 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: it gave me the ability to kind of almost be 99 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: an external observer of those, so that when I I 100 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: could recognize sometimes that hey, you're making up a very 101 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: negative story and that's why you're grumpy right now. And 102 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: that really helped me out with making a mental shift. 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about what you're doing when 104 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: you're up. You know, why is it important to do 105 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: various kinds of experiments and things in space? Yeah, great question. 106 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: That's a really important question too. So it is a 107 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: national laboratory, and it's it's unique because a lot of 108 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: dominant forces on the ground are not dominant forces in space. 109 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: So you get pretty interesting effects. Like when you make 110 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: a flame on the Earth, because of the pressure differentials 111 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: and the fact that the hot combustion products are lighter, 112 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: they will rise up and go away from the flame, 113 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: and that will draw in the auction rich gases that 114 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: keep the flame going. So in space, those combustion gases 115 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: will just make a ball around the source of the fire. 116 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: Turns out that flames in space burn more efficiently and 117 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: at a lower temperature, So there's some potential to have 118 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: a cleaner burning combustion engine. But that just gives us 119 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: a more depth of understanding of how these things work. 120 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: It just gives us another way to change some of 121 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: the the variables. Another thing that that we can do 122 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: on the space station is sedimentation. If you take a 123 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: solution over time on the Earth with the heavier items 124 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: and that solution are going to settle to the bottom. Well, 125 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: in space, there's no preferred direction for those things to 126 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: go in because everything isn't. This what I like to 127 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: call a free fall that just keeps missing the Earth. 128 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: So we're in a continuous state of freefall. Solutions stay 129 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: very homogeneous. You can do experiments like there's even the 130 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: way we try to simulate the human body with body 131 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: samples and try to understand how things work. In the 132 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: space station, where those things float, it's a closer simulation 133 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: to something being inside the human body. So there's this 134 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: I could go on and on. Clearly there's a whole 135 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: lot of different things that that allows us to do. 136 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: And delicate structures, even protein structures that we could never 137 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: make stay together on the ground, can stay together in space. 138 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. So it just gives you a it's 139 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: like another context for trying to it and scientific knowledge. 140 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: It just you've you've changed all of kind of the 141 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: defining variables of the experiment. Absolutely, that's it's a very 142 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: significant thing. Absolutely. And then there's also that the idea 143 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: of what we're doing in the space station, not just 144 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: for science, but for human exploration, because we're putting people 145 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: in space for such a long period of time, we're 146 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: getting a better understanding of how to keep people healthy. 147 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: We can do technology experiments to try to figure out 148 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: how to get things to work for these long er 149 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: ation space flights where we're gonna put people much further 150 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: away from the Earth than I was on my flight. 151 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Some of those experiments associate were associated with me being 152 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: a subject of the experiments. Give me an example of 153 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: a kind of health care related line of research. Sure, 154 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: I'm very open about the fact that I lost eight 155 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: percent of my bone density. That's not typical for somebody 156 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: at my age and my activity level, But as a 157 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: function of being in space, I lost eight percent of 158 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: my bone density because no more you know, you're not 159 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: exercising with any resistance at all. Is that? Is that 160 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: the reason almost true? You spend all of your time 161 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: except for when you're exercising, without really needing a skeleton 162 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: to to to support you. Because that's why we have 163 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: a skeleton. When you're in a freefall all the time, 164 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: there's nothing that you have to use to resist the 165 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: ground or to keep you standing on the ground. So 166 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: we have a resistive exercise device on the space station that. Actually, 167 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: it's very interesting. It uses vacuum cylinders as the source 168 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: of the force. So when you expand the vacuum cylinder, 169 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: unlike a spring, the vacuum cylinder the force will be 170 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: constant regardless of how far you pull it, whereas with 171 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: a spring, the more you expand the spring, the higher 172 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: the force gets. So that allows us to have kind 173 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: of what we want. But I like to tell school kids, 174 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: if you imagine those vacuum cylinders being attached to one 175 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: side of a seesaw pulling upwards and you on the 176 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: other side of the seesaw pulling upwards, then you can 177 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 1: change the mechanical advantage by moving where the pivot point is, 178 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: where the fulcrum is, and so we have the ability 179 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: to turn a crank and it can adjust the force 180 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: you feel anywhere from twenty pound to six pounds. But 181 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: even so, I'm stunned though by in the space of 182 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: a year, even given determined efforts on your part to 183 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: counteract the effects of the physiological effects of being in 184 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: a zero gravity atmosphere, even then the effect on your 185 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: body was profound. A lot. It's a lot, But I 186 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: lost seven percent on the first flight, and I got 187 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: it all back before the second flight, so I fully 188 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: expect to get it all back. It does come back, 189 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and with if somebody ever, some archaeologists someday ever examined 190 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: my bones, they would be able to tell that I 191 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: had flung in space because the way that matrix is 192 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: built is somewhat different. But I fully expect all of 193 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: all the bone density to come back. You know, the 194 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: series we're doing is it's called The New Creators, and 195 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: we're really focused on the role the creativity plays in 196 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: kind of pushing the envelopes of knowledge. So I'm just 197 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: I'm just curious about you're up there in this strange 198 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: environment doing what's sound like some pretty sophisticated experiments. Can 199 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: you give me an example at the time when you 200 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: felt your kind of your creativity was being tapped in 201 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: a meaningful way in this experience. Yeah? Interesting. I would 202 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: say there is an experiment called Celestial Immunity that involved 203 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: us with uh small Petrie dishes that contained body uh samples. 204 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a solution with some 205 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: blood or or what or what, but I just know 206 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: they were from various people, elderly and young people, and 207 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: we would go through and use a pipette too inoculate 208 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: them with various things, and then we would take these devices, 209 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: put him in a black box to control the carbon 210 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: dioxide and the temperature, and put them in a in 211 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: a place to let them kind of incubate for a while. 212 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: In the process of doing it, I think my creativity 213 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: came in as I was describing the challenges that I 214 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: realized that the the people who designed the experiment might 215 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: not have realized we run into. And I was able 216 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: to to use what I've had my hands on to 217 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: to give them advice about ways we could change the 218 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: experiment around. Because those peature dishes didn't have a lid, 219 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: so they were just held in there by surface tension. 220 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: And so the first time I did it, I I 221 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: put them very slowly into the box, I closed the box, 222 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: couldn't see what they were doing, and I had to 223 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: very gently move them over to to the place where 224 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: they can incubate. And I had no idea if I 225 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: was succeeding or failing. So I think there was a 226 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: lot of conversation, a lot of observing, a lot of 227 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: trying to draw on the unique experiences I'm exposed to 228 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: to help out them. And it turned out I was 229 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: an orbit long enough that the second iteration that came up, 230 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: and they had, among other things, that had put a 231 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: thin sheet of flexible plastic on top. So instead of 232 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: having to try to contain everything there, we just had 233 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: to puncture it with a needle and add the add 234 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: the inoculation that way instead, tell me a little bit 235 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: more about that paramit. That's that celestial immunity investigation. But 236 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: that's like the best name ever for a science experiment. Um, 237 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: I agree, it sounds like Jesus is involved in some ways. 238 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: I agree, no, wrong, But what was that experiment about 239 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: trying to trying to trying to investigate. We're trying to 240 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: understand how the human immune system reacts to different situations. 241 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: So again, I think it's a great experiment to highlight 242 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: because a better understanding of the human immune system will 243 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: help out everybody. So on Earth, we might do an 244 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: experiment where we have a variety of of different cell 245 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: samples that were exposing to various pathogens and studying them. 246 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: And hear, what we're doing is repeating the experiment under 247 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: a radically different set of of conditions and in the 248 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: hopes that changing the parameters of the experiment exposed some 249 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: new bit of knowledge or yes, And I don't know 250 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: if that's been successful or not, but we do know. 251 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: We do know that there are of viruses that are 252 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: more virulent in space for some reason. We don't understand 253 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: why their biological things react differently. What was the most 254 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: fun thing you did when the Uh one of my crewmates, 255 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: Caleb Baron, for some reason that two of us decided 256 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: we're going to try to do some stunts together. So 257 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: we we literally would just have our feet hooked underneath 258 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: some handrails and push off towards each other and then 259 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: do something like get curl up, hit our hands down low. 260 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: It causes to each spin um simultaneously Eno directions to 261 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: a couple of backflips and then land. And it took 262 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: a lot of attempts before we actually made it look 263 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: like something was in sync. I've never once done a 264 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: backflip in my life, but I've done four in a 265 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: row before I hit my head on something on the 266 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: space station. UH. We grew hatch chili peppers. UH. I 267 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: recently got a certificate from New Mexico that said, congratulations, 268 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: you're a hatstronaut. So I'm proud to have that title. 269 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: The thought we tarned cooking with them. We didn't cook 270 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: with them. We of course, it was science. So we 271 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: had to ship most of them back to the ground 272 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: frozen carefully. But they were very nice about letting us 273 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: have some of the chili peppers, and they warned us 274 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: that the stress response to the space environment that these 275 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: peppers have, they think would be that they're more potent. 276 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: And I think they were more potent. They were shockingly spicy. 277 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: NASA could sell those chili peppers to some fancy restaurant 278 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: and it could be, you know, celestially, you know, celestial 279 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: pepper soup or something. You know, what a great name 280 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: for a dish. I'm sure that celestial foods will be 281 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: the culinary trend of the future. Pretty soon, we'll all 282 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: be paying extra for specially vegetables grown in space. Forget 283 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: farm to table, try orbit to table. Getting aside, there 284 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: was one thing I made sure to ask Mark. I 285 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: wanted to know more about the relationship between the astronauts 286 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: and space and the NASA team on the ground. New 287 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: technologies are reshaping the way astronauts communicate with their counterparts 288 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: on Earth. IBM, for example, is testing edge computing solutions 289 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: on board the space station to try and reduce the 290 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: time it takes to analyze and send data. But what 291 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: does this information flow mean for an astronaut's day to 292 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: day life and what happens if there's an emergency? I 293 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: asked Mark for more details. Tell me a little bit 294 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: about the role that technology plays in UM in all 295 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: of this, I mean, you're you're doing these experiments, You're 296 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: actively learning in this new environment. UM, what's happening with 297 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: the data? How are you making sense of it? Processing it? 298 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: Tell me about that angle on the on your work. 299 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: The astronauts live in the space station. The ground control 300 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: team is controlling the space station, so that data flow, 301 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: the telemetry from the space station, and the commanding to 302 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: the space station is happening just to actually get the 303 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: thing of work, to get the lab to work, to 304 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: make it. If we want to change the temperature, we 305 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: could we could go ahead and go deep into the 306 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: software we got on board that we're trained to use 307 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: in case we lose communications with the ground. But if 308 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: we even want to change the temperature, we just call 309 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 1: the ground control team and say, hey, one of our 310 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: crew members feels a little cold. We all agreed we 311 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: should raise the temperature by a degree or something. They 312 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: would change it. So they're in charge. We live there 313 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: and we take we take care of everything that we 314 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: possibly can. So data transfer is crucial to the way 315 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: we operate the space station today. In your time up there, 316 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: did you have any kind of moments of crisis? Did 317 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: you ever lose communication with Houston? Two times we lost 318 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: as you control. I think we got to the point 319 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: where they told us to start executing the procedure and 320 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: then we're able to call us off, or they warned 321 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: us that it's possible you could lose you know, maybe 322 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: ten minutes from now, there's a risk of you losing 323 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: communications for example. Is that scary? What never felt scary 324 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: to me? And I don't. I think the reason it 325 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: didn't feel scary is because when we do that on 326 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: the ground for training, when we do it in a simulation, 327 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: the simulation is much harder because in space, the ground 328 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: was trying to help as much as possible. But on 329 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: the ground they give you a scenario where you call 330 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: the ground, you get no response. Every everything is as 331 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: bad as possible. So it was to me it felt 332 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: just like a simulation. But where the trainers were willing 333 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: to give us more help than they were willing to 334 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: give us on the ground. So and the culture that 335 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: I got trained in and that's worked for me really, 336 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: really well, is one that says, slow way down. If 337 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: you're on an emergency on the space station, unless it's 338 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: an ammonia leak. In all other cases, slow way down 339 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: because the worst thing you can do is go so 340 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: fast that you make a mistake and cause problems. But 341 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: otherwise it's a very safe system. When I was leading 342 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: newer crew members, I tried to encourage them to have 343 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: a cold sure where if they had any confusion, that 344 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: they would feel comfortable stopping everybody and say, hey, why 345 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: are we going down this path that doesn't make sense 346 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: to me? Because that could be the one question that 347 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: gets us to stay on the correct path. You said 348 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: you didn't get scared in that moment. Do you ever 349 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: get scared? Mark? Oh? Yeah, I definitely get scared. I 350 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: don't believe you. To give you an example, my experience 351 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: of returning to Earth is everything's really interesting. While you're 352 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: going through the atmosphere and you're in a ball of 353 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: flame and the heat shields melting away, and see things 354 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: that are melting away going past the window. That's interesting. 355 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: But then when there's nothing to pay attention to while 356 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: you're falling towards the earth, and this time you know 357 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: you're in a trajectory that will result in you hitting 358 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: the earth with nothing to do except wait for the 359 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: parachute to open for what I think was probably a 360 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: couple of very long minutes, and nobody was having a conversation. 361 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: We're just all quietly waiting to find out if we're 362 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: gonna live and we're gonna die. I didn't realize how 363 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: afraid I was that it wasn't gonna work until the 364 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: parachute actually opened, and how giddily overjoyed I felt when 365 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: when it actually opened, because I was just like, we're 366 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: gonna live. So yeah, I was scared, And again I 367 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: didn't realize it until after the fact. Yeah. Yeah, Um, 368 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: let's talk You mentioned at the beginning your sort of 369 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: interest in mental health. Let's talk about that a little bit. 370 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: You know, you you went through an experience which is 371 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: exceedingly difficult and unusual and surely must have taught you 372 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 1: a great deal about the kind of the challenges of 373 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: maintaining one's mental health. Yeah, it was a good experience. 374 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: But certainly those life skills doesn't matter if you're in 375 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: space or not. Um I tend to get distracted easily, 376 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: and so practicing trying to stay focused on one thing 377 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: and paying attention and trying to maintain a sense of 378 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: curiosity about something as simple as breathing is I think 379 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: a really good practice to try to to expand your 380 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: ability to stay focused and and actually even find joy 381 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: and relaxation in it. It's it's very reassuring if you 382 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: can get yourself to feel really relaxed no matter what's 383 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: going on, that it's it's it's like you've got this 384 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: island of comfort that you know is just internal to you. 385 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: So I thought that was very powerful. It's not something 386 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: that I how does the skill before my fifties at all. 387 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: And I think meditation has certainly helped the awareness of 388 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: the negative impact that the narratives that I would use 389 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: to fill in the gaps and information I had was 390 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: really powerful for me. And I'll give you an example 391 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: that's associated with space flight. We have a module on 392 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 1: the space station that's called the PMM. It's like the 393 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: attic of the space station. If you have a task 394 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: that takes forty that you've given you forty. Miss Ado. 395 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: Part of every activity is typically gathered the material you 396 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: need and a lot of time. That means you go 397 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: into the p MM and it's not unusual to see 398 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: somebody's just ankles and feet sticking out between bags as 399 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: they're digging with a flash head lamp on trying to 400 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: get deep into the into the depths of these bags 401 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: that are bungee corded in place. And it can be 402 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: very chaotic when you have to get multiple items, and 403 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: if if you just loosely put it underneath the bungee 404 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: cord and then bump the bungee cord, it can disappear 405 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: very easily, So it can be very frustrating. So there 406 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: was an instance I remember really well where I was 407 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: had already spent twenty minutes trying to find stuff, and 408 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: I still hadn't found the first thing, and I was 409 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: getting mad, and I realized that the reason I was 410 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: getting grumpy was the narrative I had was I the 411 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: ground's going to start thinking of Vanda High is one 412 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: of the slow, the slow guys on the space station. 413 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: He always takes longer to do other stuff. But then 414 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: I realized that I didn't know that that was just 415 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: some detail I was adding, And then I thought to myself, 416 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: wait a minute. For all I know the ground was bad, 417 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: that they didn't give me enough time to do this, 418 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: So what do I really All I really knew as 419 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: fact was that I was on the space station and 420 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: my job was to find stuff space hardware in these 421 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: bags that are all bungee corded and floating around, and honestly, 422 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 1: that was kind of cool, and I had really if 423 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: it took me longer than they expected, then that was 424 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: just a fact. It took longer than I expected. They 425 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: didn't have to be a positive or negative emotion associated 426 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: that was just a fact. So instead of as many 427 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: times before I've come out of there feeling angry at 428 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: the world, at the situation, just beating myself about not 429 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: being good enough for my job, I came out being like, well, 430 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of cool. It was just 431 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: such a huge shift, And I think over time you 432 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: perform better too when you give yourself a break like that. 433 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: So I think there's this aspect also about being more 434 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: accepting of yourself, being more curious about it. There's just 435 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: so many things that I think have helped make my 436 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: life easier. And again, by no means am I perfect. I. 437 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: This is a continuing process that I'm still working out 438 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: and struggling with. But it helps you to to keep 439 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: your kind of perfectionist stick and self judgmental side and 440 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: check absolutely, is that the most significant change that you've undergone. No, 441 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: honestly that the most significant change for me was uh, well, 442 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: the first big thing was when I first got to 443 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: the space station. It was after a very long day 444 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: and I had the next twenty four hours off to 445 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: recover from that. I spent the first ninety minutes the 446 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: first one time around the planet looking out the window 447 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: in awe, and the first thing that struck me was 448 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: how isolated the Earth looked. When you are looking at 449 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: the Earth and in the sun and your eyes are 450 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: adjusted to the sun, it makes the backdrop to the 451 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: Earth space look inky black, like the definition of lack 452 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: of light, like it's liquid. So that was shocking to me. Well, 453 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: you say shocking, It was shocking because I don't think 454 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: it was like I had never seen something that black. 455 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: It was just like again, I I if you can 456 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: imagine taking a ball and dropping it in a in 457 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: a in a pool of black ink. That's that's what 458 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: it looked like. And I knew it was I knew 459 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: it was emptiness, but it was it just there was 460 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: an emotional impact in that, and I think, uh, I 461 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: think there's been people that have been it's it can 462 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: be hard to grapple with the sense of the Earth 463 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: being isolated. Later on in the flight, as I was 464 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: getting ready to come home again this is my first flight, 465 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: I felt like I should be going back to the 466 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: Earth with some unique perspective and some type of change 467 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: to me. And I thought, am I blowing this? Am 468 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: I like, I don't know what that is. I had 469 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: this incredible sense of smallness. And I say that because 470 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: another thing that struck me looking at the Earth was 471 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: when you look towards the horizon, the atmosphere looks like 472 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: a varnish on a rock. It's like a puddle in 473 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: a parking lot. It just looks super thin. So recognizing 474 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: that first of all, and then recognizing that on that 475 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: same horizon, none of the mountains show up. They're too small. 476 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: So these things where we perceive as huge relative to 477 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: the size of the Earth are unobservable on the horizon. 478 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: But then the only thing about the largest structure that 479 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: humans have ever built, and how that compares to the 480 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: largest mountains, and then how big we are compared to 481 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: those structures. I just I felt like any sense of 482 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: self importance I had was stripped away. So I was 483 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: really struggling with is that what I'm gonna come home with? 484 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: This this idea that that that there's this meaninglessness to 485 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: it like that was really troubling to me, And also 486 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: had a lot of time to think about my mortality 487 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: because I, you know what, I might not survive this, 488 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: So it's a for me at least. I don't tell 489 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 1: him that everybody has had his experience, but for me, 490 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: it was a very thoughtful time. Yeah, I realized that 491 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: you had. I was struggling with the scale of things 492 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: when really part of my role is to be attentive 493 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: to the scale I choose. If I'm studying a plant 494 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: for my whole career, or maybe I'm sitting around the 495 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: dinner table and being attentive to the scale right there, 496 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: which is just my loved ones around the table, or 497 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: maybe you're studying the structure universe, just being attentive to 498 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: that scale. The scale you choose, and we have the 499 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: flexibility to pick it and they're all okay. But just 500 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 1: kind of accepting that I thought was was a big 501 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: leap for me. UM. So, mental health advocacy is something 502 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: that you've become quite interested in. The sustainability has also 503 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: been an idea that UM is that something that also 504 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: grew out of your those sort of observations when when 505 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: you were in space that interesting sustainability. Yeah, I do 506 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: think that I did spend a lot of time on 507 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: the space station thinking about, well, this is probably my 508 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: last time in space, what's my what am I gonna 509 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: do after I work at NASA? What is my purpose here? 510 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: And I love being outside. That's why I joined the 511 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: Army as opposed to the Air Force. I I just 512 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: the idea of being outside and being comfortable in challenging 513 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 1: environments is something that's always been appealing to me. And 514 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: I also feel like with devices that we all carry 515 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: around that are engineered to distract us, I think it's 516 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: very easy for us to stop being attentive to the 517 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: environment that we actually live in. I I do think 518 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: we've got challenges ahead of us. The climate change is 519 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: is atmospheric change. Again, I've already mentioned my perception of 520 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: the atmosphere is that very thin resource, and I really 521 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: want to get that message across the people, because it's 522 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: easy to think of the earth as so big that 523 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: how could we possibly impact it? But really it's not 524 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: the whole earth we're worried about. It is just this 525 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: thin layer we live in. That idea you as well 526 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: as concern that we're getting so sucked into screens that 527 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: I would love to get involved in helping younger people 528 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: appreciate that there's other alternatives, that there's an outdoor world 529 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: that's super interesting, and I don't think a lot of 530 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: young people are getting the opportunity to compare one way 531 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: of living to the other like we have. We grew 532 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: up without those things. We know what it was like 533 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: and how much fun it could be without having a 534 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: cell phone in your pocket all the time, and a 535 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: lot of people are growing up without that. So I'd 536 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: love to get involved with getting people to experience that. Yeah, yeah, 537 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: well wonderful. Thank you. Some of this has been really fascinating. 538 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time 539 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: to chat with me, Malcolm. It really really was a pleasure. Um. 540 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: I feel blessed I got to talk to you, it 541 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: was really a wonderful opportunity for me as well. When 542 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: Mark was looking at Earth from orbit and grappling with 543 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: how insignificant we all seemed, he said he felt troubled 544 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,239 Speaker 1: by the possible meaninglessness of it all, But then he 545 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: realized it's up to human beings to choose the scale 546 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: we pay attention to. We decide what's worthy of our 547 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: attention and what's meaningful. That might be something as expansive 548 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: as studying the cosmos, or as immediate as having dinner 549 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: with our loved ones, or as minute as the well 550 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: being of a single hatch chilly pepper plant. This piece 551 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: of wisdom from Mark is a great place for us 552 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: to end this season. Pay attention to the scale you choose, 553 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: because creativity begins when we give attention to something previously unnoticed, 554 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: a minor detail overlooked, a bigger picture still unseen. As 555 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: we strive to be new creators in our work and 556 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: in our lives, let's remember that new insights can be 557 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: found wherever we choose to look, as long as we're 558 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: attentive enough to see it. Thanks for listening to Smart 559 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: Talks with I b. M. This is our season finale, 560 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: but Stay tuned for more smart Talks coming soon. Smart 561 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: Talks with IBM is produced by Matt Romano, David jaw, 562 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: Royston Reserve, and Edith Rousselo with Jacob Goldstein. We're edited 563 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: by Sophie Crane. Our engineers are Jason Gambrel, Sarah Brigar 564 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: and Ben Holliday. Theme song by Gramoscope. Special thanks to 565 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: Carl Migliori, Andy Kelly, Kathy Callaghan and the eight Bar 566 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: and IBM teams, as well as the Pushkin marketing team. 567 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: Smart Talks with IBM is a production of Pushkin Industries 568 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: and i Heart Media. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen 569 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: on the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 570 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. I'm Malcolm Glama. This is a 571 00:31:52,760 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: paid advertisement from my BM