Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. So, ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, welcome back to Quest Love Supreme. We are
Speaker 1: here this morning or this afternoon, as I paid.
Speaker 2: Bill has already corrected me.
Speaker 1: We normally do our episodes at nighttime, so this is
Speaker 1: one of the rare moments where.
Speaker 3: We're doing a daytime episode.
Speaker 1: We attended to do a daytime episode Will Smith, but
Speaker 1: I thought Will was trying to pull the Mariah and
Speaker 1: I thought it was one am in the morning. I
Speaker 1: didn't realize we were doing it in the afternoon, so
Speaker 1: you know, so, yeah, daytime Quest Love Supreme should be
Speaker 1: very interesting. So you know, at the time when we
Speaker 1: were talking to our guest Monica Lynch, I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: Of course, I knew every potential QOLS episode could possibly
Speaker 1: delve into Jimmy Jam territory.
Speaker 3: Every time we refer to Jimmy Jam.
Speaker 1: It's usually to the fact that you know that that
Speaker 1: particular episode was what six and a half hours I
Speaker 1: believe half hours, Yeah, six and a half hours.
Speaker 4: Monica, you could take any one of the acts that
Speaker 4: you discovered and that could be a whole episode by
Speaker 4: itself exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of those so you know lately we've been since
Speaker 1: our new home at iHeart, we kind of crammed our
Speaker 1: show down to normal. You know, when we first started,
Speaker 1: I think the our standard was to be a three
Speaker 1: hour episode. I realized that sometimes a person's story arc
Speaker 1: goes over ninety minutes, and I guess towards the end
Speaker 1: of that episode, I didn't want to just skim over
Speaker 1: casual moments in history. So our guest today was very
Speaker 1: kind to oblige us a part two kind of a
Speaker 1: first in our In our show, usually we just you know,
Speaker 1: do an entire show for four hours, and then you
Speaker 1: might run the risk of the ire of say Hall
Speaker 1: and Notes, who were clearly running out of gas after.
Speaker 5: His eyes said when is this done? Because it better
Speaker 5: be soon. Yeah, you couldn't even see his eyes, but
Speaker 5: they still said that ship.
Speaker 1: QLs fans are going to be so angry because like
Speaker 1: I like, you know, I like to build up from
Speaker 1: the beginning of their lives to the peak of their thing.
Speaker 1: And I really didn't even get the nerd out on
Speaker 1: kind of the the glory the Glory Beard of Darryl.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, so I can't go for that.
Speaker 1: So anyway, you got a solo record out.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 6: I remember somebody just told us that they had to go.
Speaker 6: Who was recently somebody was just like, yo, I got
Speaker 6: to go.
Speaker 1: John Notes. John Notes pulled to George Clinton. All right,
Speaker 1: so y'all have fun. I'm out my dinners.
Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, this interview is long. We're like, we.
Speaker 3: Gotta know.
Speaker 2: That was funny.
Speaker 1: There's some people that are Guessed on the show that
Speaker 1: are fans of the show that know that we nerd
Speaker 1: out on stuff. But you know, a lot of times,
Speaker 1: like Steven Stout was another example where he was just
Speaker 1: shocked that we wanted to know the the but now
Speaker 1: minutia of his career. Like you imagine Steve Stout doing
Speaker 1: an entire interview. Did we even mention the puffy bottle situation?
Speaker 1: And well, yeah, yeah, I mean but if that were
Speaker 1: drink champs, you know, that would have been Nory's first question.
Speaker 3: You know, so how many stitches did you get?
Speaker 1: But all that to say is we're very grateful, uh
Speaker 1: for our guess today.
Speaker 3: Monica Lynch, president of Tommy.
Speaker 1: Boy Records and arguably one of the most uh successful
Speaker 1: I guess storied labels, not even hip hop labels, because
Speaker 1: a lot of their success came outside of hip hop.
Speaker 3: You could tell just got done listening.
Speaker 1: To I've been nerding out on what had happened was
Speaker 1: so I feel like open my equal now.
Speaker 3: Like the way that I'm asking questions anyway.
Speaker 1: I know way way to cross promote other Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: I spread the love anyway. Monica Lynch, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for for obliging us around two oh.
Speaker 7: Man, say it's great to be back because you know,
Speaker 7: like I was telling your crew, I've been hearing from
Speaker 7: everyone now have kids. I used to babysit for. I said, Yo,
Speaker 7: you're in West Love supreme. I can't believe it. You're
Speaker 7: legit now, Like, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: You give us the credibility.
Speaker 6: And this is the first time that a guest can
Speaker 6: actually come back on the show and tell us about
Speaker 6: the feedback because we get such a quick turnaround.
Speaker 3: This is dope.
Speaker 1: I like that, right, Oh, I like that so, Monica.
Speaker 1: So when we kind of last left the previous episode,
Speaker 1: we kind of put the pump the brakes on signing
Speaker 1: DAYLA and really not sensing that there was going to
Speaker 1: be a part too. You know, again, as I said,
Speaker 1: I was skimming through a lot of questions, but Now
Speaker 1: that I have a little more time on my hands,
Speaker 1: I kind of want to ask one more question. So,
Speaker 1: you know, with the problems with the problems of having
Speaker 1: well we discussed with Planet Rocke at least, the problems
Speaker 1: of having massive demand and very little staff and knowing
Speaker 1: you know your history, you guys are sort of churned
Speaker 1: out not just street cred records, but actual pop hits.
Speaker 3: Like Tender Love and Lean On Me.
Speaker 1: You told the Tender Love story, but can you kind
Speaker 1: of speak on how you guys connected with Jay King
Speaker 1: of Club Nouveau and I guess the facto manager of
Speaker 1: time AX Social Club. I always felt like Club Neuveau
Speaker 1: was a quick response group to the imploding of time
Speaker 1: X Social Club with having such a massive hit, and
Speaker 1: with that group, I felt there was a precursor to
Speaker 1: what did he became because Jay King clearly looked out
Speaker 1: of place on stage as Okay, that guy's clearly the
Speaker 1: CEO of the label trying to promote himself with an
Speaker 1: actual group of musicians.
Speaker 3: But can you talk about how that whole story came
Speaker 3: to be?
Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you. The you know time ex Soocial Club
Speaker 7: was one of those hits that came out of the
Speaker 7: West coast, and not just the West coast, Sacramento, of
Speaker 7: all places, you know, Saca Potatoes. You know, the only
Speaker 7: thing in Sacramento back then was of course, it was
Speaker 7: the head course of Tower Records. So it wasn't really
Speaker 7: from a scene that was already you know, uh set,
Speaker 7: like in l A or the Bay Area or New
Speaker 7: York or where have you. But that that record was
Speaker 7: a huge record, was on everybody's radar, of course, and
Speaker 7: I think it really broke on the West coast. But yeah,
Speaker 7: so you had Jay King, you had Denzil Foster and
Speaker 7: Thomas McElroy, you know, great producers who went on to major,
Speaker 7: major success. And I can't even remember who the female
Speaker 7: voice was of.
Speaker 1: The group Valie showns. I think Vali her he first
Speaker 1: name is Valie. And Samuel L who also had.
Speaker 3: A Samuel that's right, did you show you?
Speaker 7: Yeah? But it was actually this was one of those
Speaker 7: unique situations because we were already in a deal with
Speaker 7: Warner Brothers. And shortly after that deal started, which was
Speaker 7: around I guess eighty five maybe eighty six, whenever Tender
Speaker 7: Love came out, there was a guy that was hired
Speaker 7: at Warner Brothers named Benny Medina.
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and Benny was made the head of Black Music
Speaker 7: A and R.
Speaker 3: He started in eighty six, I think around.
Speaker 7: Eighty see, I think it was circa eighty six. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: For our listeners out there, we've mentioned Benny a few
Speaker 1: times on the show. Benny is technically the fresh Prince
Speaker 1: of bel Air. The you know, the life of what
Speaker 1: Will Smith is playing is actually based on Benny Medina's story,
Speaker 1: and I guess Lenny Kravitz sort of mentioned on his
Speaker 1: episode that you know, Benny started out kind of as
Speaker 1: who was Diddy's psychic with the Umbrella. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: kind of the fonds Worth Bentley to kind of second
Speaker 1: seventies early eighties era Barry Gordy, and he formed a
Speaker 1: very interesting disco rock band called Apollo.
Speaker 3: I've only seen him perform, yes, I put quotes on it.
Speaker 2: A lot of work.
Speaker 3: Yeah something, No, you just google Benny Medina Apollo.
Speaker 1: I've only seen him on Soul Train and Dance Fever,
Speaker 1: And you know, even at the age of eight, I
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, this is weird. But of course Apollo
Speaker 1: contained Carrie Gordy, who was also became a kind of
Speaker 1: got a day job as a as an executive. You know,
Speaker 1: Carrie's younger brother was a rock well of Somebody's Watching
Speaker 1: Me fame. But so when she mentions Benny Medina, you know,
Speaker 1: Benny Medina starts off as the real life fresh Prince
Speaker 1: of bel Air, works at Warner for some time period
Speaker 1: and then becomes like supermanager of j Lo and Will
Speaker 1: Smith and everyone.
Speaker 3: So sorry, I got to do footnotes for.
Speaker 7: Yeah. No, man, this is you're breaking it down. But yeah,
Speaker 7: he was. He had lived at the Gordie family at
Speaker 7: some point after Apollo. Uh, he was hired by Moe
Speaker 7: Austin at Warner Brothers and he was made the head
Speaker 7: of Black an R, Black Music A and R and
Speaker 7: his you know, his very early signings. Uh. I don't
Speaker 7: know if you remember the female Body Inspectors. No, wow, fbi, FBI,
Speaker 7: I've heard of.
Speaker 2: This before you.
Speaker 6: Today kids just used to say it on the playground.
Speaker 6: I didn't know it was at your discuss.
Speaker 7: And then there's there was another guy named she I
Speaker 7: think Cedric or Sedrick or he was he was sorry,
Speaker 7: I had that West Coast. Uh, you know, curl activate
Speaker 7: going on?
Speaker 2: Are you talking about Sharrick Shrek?
Speaker 3: Wait? A minute.
Speaker 1: Is that Shreck? Is that the Shrek that's part of
Speaker 1: Wendy Whims's story?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is.
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 7: Why why what?
Speaker 8: Wait?
Speaker 3: Schrek? Didn't he do call your name?
Speaker 2: Just call?
Speaker 7: It was?
Speaker 2: You can't call me what you want? Hey? Just it
Speaker 2: was like the greatest Luther song that Luther never sang.
Speaker 2: But right, I love that record.
Speaker 3: I believe.
Speaker 1: At the top of Wendy Williams's UH story, her biopic
Speaker 1: kind of the beginning of her trauma starts with UH,
Speaker 1: an unfortunate vision visit to his hotel expert. Yeah, an
Speaker 1: unfortunate visit to his hotel room sort of begins the
Speaker 1: beginning of Wendy's trauma era.
Speaker 6: This is cool, okay, all right, man, I.
Speaker 3: Got fane on this show.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 1: I got to keep up with helpful, useless and about
Speaker 1: R and B.
Speaker 3: Actually never heard of so much.
Speaker 7: Oh many's all right. So Betty was making his way.
Speaker 7: You know, he'd had a couple of signings, nothing had
Speaker 7: really blown up, you know, big time. But he uh
Speaker 7: got a hold of Jay King when time Ax Social
Speaker 7: Club broke and you know, Jay King was really very intense,
Speaker 7: kind of difficult. He would like he would have you
Speaker 7: believe that he would have you believed that. Yeah, he
Speaker 7: was a rather compact guy.
Speaker 3: Short record executive.
Speaker 1: Scare the shit out of me, So all right, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah I prayed of Sugar Night at all, but short dudes, No, yeah.
Speaker 7: He looked like he was buying his suits on Broad
Speaker 7: Street and Newark. You know, you're fifty nine ninety nine,
Speaker 7: you know, Sunday Church Special episodes, and you know, because
Speaker 7: he just did. He had this whole other look. And
Speaker 7: I've got a fantastic photo of me, Bennie and Jay
Speaker 7: King together from that era, and it sort of says
Speaker 7: a lot just in this one photo. But anyway, it
Speaker 7: was Bennie who brought in Jay King and what became
Speaker 7: Club Nouveaux. I think that the group was already sort
Speaker 7: of at falling apart, and there was power struggles because
Speaker 7: Jay was a very you know, he ran things with
Speaker 7: an iron fist in that organization. But so Club Nouveau was,
Speaker 7: you know, when time X fell apart, Club Neuveau was
Speaker 7: the answer. Yes, you're right about that. And the album
Speaker 7: came out through Warner Brothers and through Bennie and our
Speaker 7: deal with Warner Brothers. Tommy Boy released all of the
Speaker 7: Club Nouveaux twelve inch singles, which was very significant because
Speaker 7: they had a bunch of hits, you know. And again
Speaker 7: this was a group that was like, who the hell
Speaker 7: are they? You remember all the album cover and twelve
Speaker 7: inch cover artwork, Yes, new faults like silhouette or you
Speaker 7: can it looked like well, kind of looked like the drawings.
Speaker 7: It looked like prison art.
Speaker 1: Yeah really yes, Wow, Monica could be borderline a Q member.
Speaker 4: And they have like the backdrop exactly, it looked like that, right.
Speaker 7: It did look like that. It kind of looked like
Speaker 7: outsider art or something you put next to the you know,
Speaker 7: the albums.
Speaker 9: They listen to the message in Life, Love and matter
Speaker 9: of fact, I did not buy Life, Love and Pain
Speaker 9: because I didn't like the album cover as it Dang,
Speaker 9: that is crazy.
Speaker 6: But it's just her face. It does look like a prison.
Speaker 3: I forget the first album, not the second half.
Speaker 7: Somebody needs to look up who did the artwork on
Speaker 7: all those because there was the same person who did
Speaker 7: all that artwork, and I think, in fact, it was
Speaker 7: the same woman who was portrayed on those all those covers,
Speaker 7: and it was ingenious because nobody really knew what Club
Speaker 7: neu Veaux looked like. But there was such a strong
Speaker 7: branding and identity with those covers. You knew when you
Speaker 7: went into the store if you bought Situation number nine,
Speaker 7: that you knew what jealousy. You know, you could say, oh,
Speaker 7: it looks like jealousy. You know, buy them all, collect
Speaker 7: the whole set.
Speaker 3: Bad Situation number nine, glean on me. They all had
Speaker 3: the same.
Speaker 7: Yeah, they all had the same artwork style, same artist,
Speaker 7: and I think it was the same female model that
Speaker 7: was used, like she was going through different phases of
Speaker 7: emotions on the cover artwork and all this. But you know,
Speaker 7: that sound was such a it was a sound that
Speaker 7: really traveled quite well. I mean, we never had any
Speaker 7: records that sounded like Club Nouveaux, not a New York
Speaker 7: you know sound even remotely. And but in the South,
Speaker 7: the West, Midwest, all these places, people love those Club
Speaker 7: neu Veaux records. They may not know who Club neu
Speaker 7: Veaux is, though they love their vou records.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they were kind of close to what
Speaker 1: Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis were doing. Like you could
Speaker 1: almost say that Club Neuvau was probably a precursor to
Speaker 1: the new Jack sound. Mm you could rhyme over rumors,
Speaker 1: like back in the day, rumors could.
Speaker 3: Have been a beat on Whodini's record.
Speaker 1: Like, I guess they sort of took the time where
Speaker 1: Larry Smith wasn't able to carry very.
Speaker 7: Melodic you know, sort of funky, sort of slower. Yeah,
Speaker 7: and I think I think you're right. You know, Jimmy
Speaker 7: and Terry's influence was being widely you know, their sound
Speaker 7: as being widely copied.
Speaker 1: At that point at the time when time X Social
Speaker 1: Club imploded. Kind of my only Internet at least with
Speaker 1: real time news was always like Lee Bailey's radioscope. So
Speaker 1: around that time period, there was a lot of back
Speaker 1: and forth between Jay King and the time Ax Social Clubs,
Speaker 1: guys like dissing each other. This is the first time
Speaker 1: I'm seeing like what I considered an R and B situation,
Speaker 1: Like it's one thing for like Ll and mc shan
Speaker 1: to go to eat each other because okay, they're rappers,
Speaker 1: They're supposed to.
Speaker 3: Do that, but you know, not to this level.
Speaker 1: But that said, were you guys even allowed to have
Speaker 1: an audience with Denzel and Thomas for their production or
Speaker 1: did you did you get a sense that they were
Speaker 1: doing all the work musically well.
Speaker 7: First of all, I would say Denzel and Thomas were
Speaker 7: really nice guys, you know, cool, easy to deal with,
Speaker 7: you know, just cool guys. Jay was kind of a
Speaker 7: more sort of paranoid type of guy, and like I said,
Speaker 7: he really was had He was a bit of a
Speaker 7: control freak. Really, I could see where anyone would chafe
Speaker 7: under his leadership. And I don't know what the business
Speaker 7: was that they had arranged, but I'm having I have
Speaker 7: a feeling it probably wasn't particularly advantageous for Danny and Tommy,
Speaker 7: so Denzil and Thomas. So I don't recall. I just
Speaker 7: remember Jay always being a guy that was quick, quick tempered,
Speaker 7: you know, very controlling, you know, not an easy guy
Speaker 7: to get along with, tightly wound. But to his credit,
Speaker 7: I would say also that he had a pretty strong
Speaker 7: vision about what he wanted and that it worked. So,
Speaker 7: you know, they had a brief and glorious run. And
Speaker 7: it's of course what was the put five on? It
Speaker 7: was much saying I got five on it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, why you treat me so bad?
Speaker 7: Why you treat me so bad? Yeah? So but I
Speaker 7: after Lena on me, I don't know whatever happened to
Speaker 7: you know, Jay King or anyone, you know, Denzel and
Speaker 7: Thomas of course went on.
Speaker 1: With nineteen eighty six being the the I mean, with
Speaker 1: that marriage of Warner Brothers and Tommy Boy. I noticed
Speaker 1: that was the only label that you saw both logos on.
Speaker 3: Was there a reason for that?
Speaker 1: Like, is there a reason why three ft Hind Rising
Speaker 1: and Naughty and all the other subsequent Tommy Boy releases
Speaker 1: also didn't have the Warner Brothers logo on it.
Speaker 7: Oh, it's actually a pretty simple explanation. The deal with
Speaker 7: Warner Brothers was that we would have discussions so I
Speaker 7: mutually agree on what artists and albums would be best
Speaker 7: suited to go through Tommy Boy's independent distribution system. And
Speaker 7: there were select artists like four MDS for example, who
Speaker 7: where they had a shot at getting you know, top
Speaker 7: ten black radio hits. And Warner Brothers had an in
Speaker 7: house you know, black music promotion and marketing department that
Speaker 7: we didn't have, and so we would mutually agree upon
Speaker 7: which releases would go through you know which system.
Speaker 1: So the palatable R and B non hip hop stuff
Speaker 1: went through one or sometimes yeah, I.
Speaker 7: Mean, and there wasn't like there was that much of it.
Speaker 7: I mean the four mds might be might have been
Speaker 7: the only one, but there was That's not true either.
Speaker 7: Information Society was silent mourning.
Speaker 6: Wow, well.
Speaker 3: Every kid in uh oh wait, that wasn't Information Society.
Speaker 7: It was close. It was no Silent Morning, I think
Speaker 7: was Noel.
Speaker 3: Was that a Tommy Body.
Speaker 7: You're thinking Running, Well, you know it's a uh. Information
Speaker 7: Society was where their first record was Running, And they
Speaker 7: were from Minneapolis and they were They had an interesting
Speaker 7: story because they actually were on a label up in Minneapolis.
Speaker 7: I think it's called Twin Tone, an indie sort of
Speaker 7: I don't know, alternative rock type of label, and they
Speaker 7: had this record called Running. It was and it was
Speaker 7: actually a little Louis Vega who was working as a
Speaker 7: DJ at El Nido del Diablo The Devil's Nest, which
Speaker 7: was club which was Salabatiello's other club running the Fever
Speaker 7: Disco Fever. But you opened this place called The Devil's
Speaker 7: Nest and Louis Vega, who along with Joey Gardner at
Speaker 7: Tommy Boy, was also one of the pioneers of the
Speaker 7: whole Latin freestyle scene and sound picked up on this
Speaker 7: Information Society record and turned Joey Gardner onto it, and
Speaker 7: that it was Joey who brought Information Society to Tommy Boy.
Speaker 7: Joey is my neighbor. He lives upstairs from me, and
Speaker 7: we're like family. You know, he's a kid I plucked
Speaker 7: out of Crazy Eddies twelve inch department, like back in
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty two or eighty.
Speaker 1: Three, Crazy Eddies. Wow Eddies was a player in selling records.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Information Society. They did a Also, I want
Speaker 1: to know what.
Speaker 3: Do you think?
Speaker 7: You tell me, yes, your energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean even with groups like that sort
Speaker 1: of coming ahead of the curve of like I don't
Speaker 1: know what you would call like depeche Mode or kind
Speaker 1: of like those type of yeah, well, post New Waves
Speaker 1: sort of like I mean, it's not pop, it's not rock,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely synth based.
Speaker 3: I guess. For me, my question.
Speaker 1: Is is it possible for an independent label, which I mean
Speaker 1: I imagine that you guys were sort of like the
Speaker 1: equivalent of trying to navigate a tricycle on the four
Speaker 1: h five, So, you know, is it possible for an
Speaker 1: independent label to navigate itself in the age of majors?
Speaker 1: You know, like, is A M truly the last independent
Speaker 1: major that could operate as a major label? And you
Speaker 1: know what held you guys because I actually feel like
Speaker 1: you guys were in that Motown, A and M lane
Speaker 1: where Tommy Boy could have actually became a major. But like,
Speaker 1: is someone cutting you guys off at the knees at
Speaker 1: the top ord? Like, how does that happen?
Speaker 7: Well, you know, it's interesting because you go back to
Speaker 7: really distribution because there was in the early eighties there
Speaker 7: were A and M, Motown and I think it was
Speaker 7: might have been Ariston, I'm not sure. There were three
Speaker 7: of the very very large independent labels were they were
Speaker 7: independently distributed and then they became majors, and so it
Speaker 7: left this entire different field of smaller labels that were
Speaker 7: that constituted the indies and independent distribution. But the independent
Speaker 7: distribution distributors really sort of got the rug pulled out
Speaker 7: from under them when Motown and A and M left,
Speaker 7: So it actually presented opportunities for labels like ours. But
Speaker 7: when you so that's that might have been in the
Speaker 7: very early eighties, maybe late seventies when that happened. But
Speaker 7: fast forward to you know, circa eighty six or so,
Speaker 7: you know, be it Tommy Boy or any of the
Speaker 7: other independent labels. It was almost impossible to even contemplate
Speaker 7: having pop records and cracking top forty radio or even
Speaker 7: it was a pretty rare event to even have, you know,
Speaker 7: be able to have a top five or top ten
Speaker 7: black radio single. You know, we just didn't have the
Speaker 7: sort of muscle. I mean, these are labels that had
Speaker 7: full on departments, and they had a lock on the slots.
Speaker 7: You know, it was not an even playing field.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of is it a thing where
Speaker 1: is it a thing where let's say, like Walter Yetnikov
Speaker 1: at Sony or you know where Okay, you guys are
Speaker 1: basically fighting for at least thirty or forty positions at
Speaker 1: a major label, And is it a thing where it's
Speaker 1: just an unspoken given that you know, we got to
Speaker 1: save at least fifteen spots for a Sony artist, a
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson shade.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't even say unspoken, you know, uh, it was spoken. Yeah,
Speaker 7: it was spoken. I mean, you know it was be
Speaker 7: it wasn't even uh, you know, it was just so
Speaker 7: much muscle, so much leverage. You know, you want Springsteen tickets,
Speaker 7: you want to do the giveaways for you know, you know, refrigerator,
Speaker 7: you know, you've got this, you've got that. We just
Speaker 7: didn't have those those sort of resources, those tools. It's
Speaker 7: not like things.
Speaker 1: Your success was word of mouth, like, wow, I really
Speaker 1: like this lean on Me song, so let me add it.
Speaker 7: The any hits that we had had to have much
Speaker 7: more muscle and hit power behind it to even get
Speaker 7: a shot. Really, but you know, uh, but lean on Me,
Speaker 7: of course was unique in that it was a cover,
Speaker 7: It was in a big film, it was on a
Speaker 7: big soundtrack, you know, so uh, you know, it had
Speaker 7: a lot of uh, there was a lot of support
Speaker 7: mechanisms with that particular rack.
Speaker 6: And did the club DJs help with that too? Like
Speaker 6: it was seemed like a lot of club New World
Speaker 6: records were working in the club. So did that worked
Speaker 6: for you? Off favor a little bit more?
Speaker 7: I would say, actually, their biggest hit, being lean on Me,
Speaker 7: was probably.
Speaker 6: Not really it wasn't It wasn't yeah, No, it wasn't.
Speaker 7: A club record. The other records were much more you know,
Speaker 7: street and club type of records and radio record black
Speaker 7: radio records, but lean on Me was I forget. I
Speaker 7: can't even remember the name of the movie lean On Me.
Speaker 7: All right, well there you go, there you go, so.
Speaker 1: You know, but that's also after the fact because lean
Speaker 1: On Me came out in like eighty nine, whereas a
Speaker 1: single camp you know, Club New Vote came out in
Speaker 1: eighty six. But yeah, you know, it's it's a thing
Speaker 1: where it's a song where both generations gen Z, gen
Speaker 1: X and Baby Booners knew the song. And it was
Speaker 1: weird to hear, you know. It was like, you know,
Speaker 1: the beat felt like post Rick Rubin def Jam, So
Speaker 1: it was definitely yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: And there was a great woman who worked for many
Speaker 7: many years at MCA Records named Kathy Nelson. And Kathy
Speaker 7: was really one of the pioneers of that soundtrack era
Speaker 7: that was so huge in the late eighties and early nineties,
Speaker 7: and she put a lot of black artists on those
Speaker 7: soundtracks where that wasn't necessarily happening as much prior to that.
Speaker 7: She was always like she'd said, Pica, you've got anything,
Speaker 7: I'm looking for a track for this record? How about
Speaker 7: that Club New Veaux. She had a funny way of talking.
Speaker 7: She was great. She's had a lot of energy, very dynamic,
Speaker 7: redheaded Gal. She was a powerhouse. She worked there with
Speaker 7: Al Teller. I don't know if you remember Al Taller. No, yeah,
Speaker 7: so in any case, but she was it was her
Speaker 7: through her that we got that placement, you know. And
Speaker 7: also I just want to say, you may before we
Speaker 7: get off the topic entirely of Benny Medina. Benny played
Speaker 7: a very critical role with Tommy Boy in that he
Speaker 7: brought in Uh. It was through him actually that Naughty
Speaker 7: by Nature landed on Tommy Boy. And it's a circuitous route.
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell us the story.
Speaker 7: Well, I want to make sure I get it all right,
Speaker 7: but I probably won't. But but the thing is is
Speaker 7: that once upon a time we were pitched to sign
Speaker 7: Naughty by Nature, but they weren't Naughty by Nature at
Speaker 7: that time. They were called somebody helped me the new
Speaker 7: style and you style. Yeah, and and they were actually
Speaker 7: on a label called Bona Me, which was part of
Speaker 7: Sylvia and Joe Robinson's empire. And they were wearing and
Speaker 7: they wore zoot suits.
Speaker 6: No they didn't, No, no, not Vinnie, No.
Speaker 3: They did not. They did. I seen a photo, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: had a photo.
Speaker 7: Yes, So they weren't they were not Naughty by Nature
Speaker 7: yet and they did, whether in sound, attitude, style, nothing,
Speaker 7: you know, they were in a different larval stage of
Speaker 7: their career.
Speaker 1: So can I ask, did you guys truly know what
Speaker 1: you had? Because only in retrospect I will say that
Speaker 1: Naughty by Nature is probably the best storied example of
Speaker 1: riding the thin line between authentic hip hop because as
Speaker 1: as an MC and a lyricist, you know, Tretch was
Speaker 1: no joke. Truch was an influential MC, like so good
Speaker 1: almost like he's in ELL's lane where you know you're
Speaker 1: so good you don't get credit.
Speaker 6: Yes, that's Tretch.
Speaker 1: Yes, And but these songs, like they wrote massive anthems
Speaker 1: and like the their knack for really good pop hooks?
Speaker 3: Did you know instantly? Oh we can really?
Speaker 1: Because I mean they're coming out post wild thing, postbuster
Speaker 1: move where like a pop wrapper really has to go
Speaker 1: non threatening rat to get to the other side, Like,
Speaker 1: did you guys know instantly what you had? Or was
Speaker 1: it sort of like a learning process where oh, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, we can do another one and another one
Speaker 1: and another one.
Speaker 7: Well no, no, I think that. Well, first of all,
Speaker 7: they weren't all all those records and not been recorded,
Speaker 7: you know at single point I think anyone who heard
Speaker 7: OPP knew that they were listening to a smash it.
Speaker 7: There was a one listen record, nobody, you know, you
Speaker 7: didn't have to you'd have to have a real ten
Speaker 7: ear not to hear OPP.
Speaker 6: Was that the response from radio when they when you
Speaker 6: played it for them, Monica, I'm just curious, they were like,
Speaker 6: oh yeah.
Speaker 7: Man, well before radio, I mean, radio was not always
Speaker 7: the first stop, you know. But here's the thing, here's
Speaker 7: the stage setting that. When Naughty by Nature came around
Speaker 7: and they had OPP, these were guys from New Jersey,
Speaker 7: and nobody was really checking for New Jersey at that point.
Speaker 7: New Jersey was not the most legit place to be
Speaker 7: from as an MC at that point in time. You
Speaker 7: had to be from the five Burgh.
Speaker 3: Did it matter, Yeah, it did matter.
Speaker 7: It did matter because you were you were in that
Speaker 7: era of sort of clicks and cruise and who you
Speaker 7: down with and who's your producer? Pretty red man?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 10: Like?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, what the album was? Ninety two?
Speaker 6: Okay?
Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, I mean I forget. Maybe somebody, can you know,
Speaker 7: tell me what.
Speaker 2: Is the first Naughty album?
Speaker 7: Okay? So, so OPP came out before this. I might
Speaker 7: have been ninety or early ninety one. But the thing
Speaker 7: is is that no one was really checking for Naughty
Speaker 7: by Nature. The opp however, was one of those records where,
Speaker 7: you know, I always I have always said this, the
Speaker 7: best records you can ever get are the ones that
Speaker 7: a two year old and one hundred and two year
Speaker 7: old can get into, you know, because it crossed all
Speaker 7: party lines, and you had that Jackson five sample that
Speaker 7: people knew it was part of the musical DNA for
Speaker 7: damn near everybody. But the thing that really was a
Speaker 7: very big turning point for Naughty by Nature being you know,
Speaker 7: elevated and checked in a different way, was when the
Speaker 7: premiere issue, well I should say it was sort of
Speaker 7: like the test run issue of Vibe came out, and
Speaker 7: in fact it wasn't even called Vibe yet, it was
Speaker 7: called Volume. And I was friends with the guy who
Speaker 7: was the editor, the first.
Speaker 1: Editor, Alan Alan Light No No No.
Speaker 7: Allen was later the little gray cells are not what
Speaker 7: they used to be. He's a big writer for a
Speaker 7: lot for Vogue and a lot of other places now, but.
Speaker 8: No first editor Vibe, Jonathan van Meter, and I was
Speaker 8: kind of friendly with him, and this guy named Gil
Speaker 8: Rogan at time, uh, Time Warner Publications, Time Magazine and
Speaker 8: all the publications that they had.
Speaker 7: Anyway, it was just it was Quincy Jones project. Of course. Anyway,
Speaker 7: somehow I said, oh, you know what if I went
Speaker 7: to uh, you know, god, what is his name now,
Speaker 7: the photographer that did the the big photo. I went
Speaker 7: to this, No, this is all before Jonathan Mannion, but
Speaker 7: he's really incredibly well known photographer. Said oh, you know,
Speaker 7: we could do this story about all of the hip
Speaker 7: hop artists who are starting to wear tattoos, and wow,
Speaker 7: it was a thing. Well, you know, this is very
Speaker 7: early nineties and there was a lot of kids who
Speaker 7: were really starting to get into the tattoos scene. And
Speaker 7: and so I lined up this photo session and I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 7: I get you know, I got Puffey and the guys,
Speaker 7: I got Naughty and a bunch of people from different
Speaker 7: groups and different camps. And he did the photo session
Speaker 7: and the big, the big photo that came out of
Speaker 7: it was Tretch with his shirt off, arms up like this,
Speaker 7: and that landed on the cover of what was really
Speaker 7: the first issue of Vibe. And like again I guess
Speaker 7: it was. It was a test run issue. I think
Speaker 7: at that point they called it Volume and they had
Speaker 7: to change the name because the word volume was owned
Speaker 7: by some other publication in the UK.
Speaker 3: Albert Watson.
Speaker 7: Albert Watson, thank you, Yes it was Albert Watson, great guy,
Speaker 7: really an amazing photographer. And uh but in any case, uh,
Speaker 7: of course, you know, Scott Pols and Brian came up
Speaker 7: with a much better name for for the publication. But
Speaker 7: it was that cover that women saw a Trench cover
Speaker 7: game over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so that was the game changed.
Speaker 10: Gone machete, you know it, machete, the huge chains and
Speaker 10: trash like this.
Speaker 7: Women just totally watched it and it was like, so,
Speaker 7: so Trench is all of a sudden a sex symbol
Speaker 7: and Naughty continues having really amazing hits and KG you know,
Speaker 7: I think also underrated Frankly as a producer, a really
Speaker 7: great producer, and Vinnie was like, you know, such the
Speaker 7: spark plug of the group. They were fantastic as a
Speaker 7: live act, and they kept having these great records. Yeah
Speaker 7: but they but at that point, you know, when OPP
Speaker 7: came out, it really new Jersey was not really happening.
Speaker 7: And one of the other things that was really big
Speaker 7: about OPP is when we did the video for OPP
Speaker 7: and we did. This is a crazy thing, but this
Speaker 7: is how it was independent labels back then. We just
Speaker 7: made these little stickers. They cost nothing to make, it
Speaker 7: says you down with OPP right, And they featured prominently
Speaker 7: in the video, and we would hand out packs of
Speaker 7: one hundred and a thousand stickers. They were, you know,
Speaker 7: hand them out all over the place. It was like
Speaker 7: having your own street army of kids spreading the word
Speaker 7: on OPA, just with those damn stickers.
Speaker 6: And then everybody wanted the stickers. It was like, you
Speaker 6: gotta want them stickers.
Speaker 7: You got them sticks.
Speaker 6: I don't put on my traffic keeper by exactly.
Speaker 7: It's like when you give a kid a pack of stickers.
Speaker 7: They were like deputized locker.
Speaker 4: Yes, was there any truth to the rumor? I've read
Speaker 4: this a lot of places. Was there any truth to
Speaker 4: the rumor that trech or someone from not I don't
Speaker 4: know the tretch brought a bag of snakes?
Speaker 7: Yes, it's not a rumor, it's truth. And I'm happy
Speaker 7: to share that story. Yes, because someone someone asked me
Speaker 7: about this recently and I said, yeah, here's the story.
Speaker 7: Man on a weekday morning, a Tommy boy And again
Speaker 7: we're talking about maybe crack of dawn, like ten am
Speaker 7: or something. I was in my office and the receptionist said, hey, hey,
Speaker 7: Trenches here with some of his guys, Pooky and I
Speaker 7: forget who there maybe three guys. I think always there's
Speaker 7: always a Pooky, and I still remember Pooky. Pooky's actually
Speaker 7: a nice guy. But they're here. They're demanding to see Tom.
Speaker 7: They're kind of upset. And Tom wasn't there and so
Speaker 7: and his office door was closed. So they marched around.
Speaker 7: They march around the around the corner to my office.
Speaker 7: My office at Tommy Boy was across from the only bathroom.
Speaker 7: There were no windows in my office, you know, poor ventilation.
Speaker 7: You know, I got the whole smell of vision in
Speaker 7: my office. But it was But they just showed up
Speaker 7: in my office and Tretch he was, you know, Treutch
Speaker 7: is actually kind of a quiet guy. He was a
Speaker 7: man of few words. Really wasn't like, you know, he
Speaker 7: wasn't like yelling or you know whatever, hopping off or anything.
Speaker 7: He just had this shoe box, uh, and he opened
Speaker 7: it and he dumped out what were really like garter
Speaker 7: snakes and mice. These were the type of things that
Speaker 7: you would have gotten at a pet supply store and mice, yeah, mice,
Speaker 7: and okay and so and and of course like I'm
Speaker 7: you know, mortifed, like what the fuck? And they just
Speaker 7: you know, and then they just ran out. There's no
Speaker 7: like explanation or anything.
Speaker 3: Well, come to friend one of your more successful groups.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, that's the ones that was getting loved.
Speaker 1: Well, ghetto Bastard wasn't didn't go double platinum or it's
Speaker 1: the one wasn't.
Speaker 7: Here's why it happened. So it was a dumbest fucking ship.
Speaker 7: There had been a dispute that really involved the business
Speaker 7: affairs guy and the group's attorney, and it was over. Now,
Speaker 7: when I talk about the most mundane shit, it's sort
Speaker 7: of mundane when you had cause that's where the you know,
Speaker 7: such a probably the number one format at that time
Speaker 7: for albums, and there was a big dispute over the
Speaker 7: J card for the album that was coming out, because
Speaker 7: you know how like when you get a J card
Speaker 7: and sometimes it would be folding out and advertising stuff
Speaker 7: or whatever, lyrics and blah blah blah. Well there's a
Speaker 7: dispute because Naughty had started making their Naughty.
Speaker 2: Gear gear yo, okay, and they wanted.
Speaker 7: They wanted to have a free panel on the J card,
Speaker 7: and lawyers being lawyers, they were sort of dicking each
Speaker 7: other over about, well, if you're going to have this panel,
Speaker 7: you're going to have to pay point zero seven cents
Speaker 7: per panel. Blah blah blah. By the time this is
Speaker 7: translated to the group, you know, it has become World
Speaker 7: War three. And I wasn't even really aware of what
Speaker 7: the issue was. But the thing is is that what
Speaker 7: year did this happen? The snakes and.
Speaker 3: The mic.
Speaker 7: I don't remember what year this was. I mean, I
Speaker 7: would guess this is probably ninety one ninety two when
Speaker 7: this incident happened is before we moved downtown. So but
Speaker 7: it was in the age of maybe beepers and you know,
Speaker 7: stuff like that. So by the time word made its
Speaker 7: way downtown to the source and the rest of the
Speaker 7: hip hop world, it had become like yo. And then
Speaker 7: he brought an anacondas and rats and it became, you know,
Speaker 7: within ten to fifteen minutes, it was like, you know,
Speaker 7: the biggest event.
Speaker 6: It would have made more sense if you would have
Speaker 6: had anaconda's and boro constrictors, because like gardens make some
Speaker 6: small like pet store.
Speaker 3: My sight.
Speaker 7: Well, he was making a statement, and I guess a
Speaker 7: statement he wanted to make us. Hey, you know you
Speaker 7: guys are rats and.
Speaker 5: Snakes, snakes on your desk. You wouldn't hear fuck what
Speaker 5: kind of snakes?
Speaker 6: No you're right? No, no, no, you forgot no, no no no.
Speaker 6: I saw water bug last night, almost diagnosed.
Speaker 7: So then so then about less than an hour after
Speaker 7: the incident, I get a call from Shot Kim. And
Speaker 7: Shot Kim is Latifa's business partner and also managed a
Speaker 7: naughty and he was apologizing. Man, I you know, he
Speaker 7: just was smoking some strong stuff this morning or whatever
Speaker 7: it was. He was really pissed off and I'm sorry
Speaker 7: that happened. Blah blah blah. But it already it became
Speaker 7: one of those things of hip hop lore. So but
Speaker 7: that's the story.
Speaker 6: But I added to their whole Chrissona.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, it was a you know, listen, it's one
Speaker 7: of the look we're sitting here in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 7: you're asking me about you know, obviously it's lived on
Speaker 7: in infamy.
Speaker 3: Were your offices located on First Avenue?
Speaker 7: Yes, we were, Okay, I'd say we were in the
Speaker 7: hip hop hinter lands. It was York Avenue, First Avenue,
Speaker 7: in an area called Yorkville. We're very close to where
Speaker 7: the Mayor's you know, I'm.
Speaker 3: Only asking that's it's an inside joke.
Speaker 1: I never knew it's it's it's one of those moments
Speaker 1: where Dayla had jokingly credited uh a fictional like a
Speaker 1: song what was the B side? To me myself, and
Speaker 1: I fante, oh, what's more?
Speaker 2: What's more?
Speaker 1: What's more was credited to uh being a song on
Speaker 1: the soundtrack to Hell on First Avenue?
Speaker 3: And I was like, wait, is that a real movie?
Speaker 1: And I didn't know if they told me that if
Speaker 1: Tommy Boy was on referring to Tommy Boy, but probably.
Speaker 7: Yeah it was. You know, it's funny because uh, we
Speaker 7: were up there. We had these offices above a soccer
Speaker 7: store called Dos Soccer and but Jive Records was actually
Speaker 7: just a couple of blocks over over on Lexington, and uh,
Speaker 7: you know I used to walk over there sometimes and
Speaker 7: Brenda K. Starr lived across the street from the Tommy
Speaker 7: Boy offices, and uh, yeah no, actually it was a
Speaker 7: great run at those offices. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, fun fact, I believe the roots shot there proceed
Speaker 1: two video with roy Ayres on the rooftop of Tommy Boy.
Speaker 7: Oh you're kidding?
Speaker 3: Why I believe?
Speaker 1: I believe this is This is how I got to
Speaker 1: know who the Jazzy Fad Nasties were, because when we
Speaker 1: were done shooting that video and I went down and
Speaker 1: had to pass your offices, there's a poster of the
Speaker 1: for the on the wall, and then I guess someone
Speaker 1: told put someone had to be listening to their music.
Speaker 1: And I was like outside the door, like, what the
Speaker 1: hell is This is crazy shit I ever heard, and
Speaker 1: someone explained that, you know, Quentin had gotten a label
Speaker 1: deal with you guys and whatnot, and they gave me
Speaker 1: a tape and I listened to it in the car
Speaker 1: obsessively and then stalked them. And then they moved into
Speaker 1: my house for the next fourteen years and they were left.
Speaker 1: You probably they're still in my house right now.
Speaker 3: No, it was.
Speaker 7: Actually an A and R guy named alb Ragusa who
Speaker 7: was involved in bringing the Jazzy Fat Nasties are. When
Speaker 7: I loved what they were doing. It was totally different,
Speaker 7: cool out there like incredible. You know. My recollection though,
Speaker 7: is I think that at that point the group themselves
Speaker 7: were not entirely.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, they were slowly imploding.
Speaker 1: But I mean from what I heard, you know, jays
Speaker 1: Swift was really gearing them up to be. If the
Speaker 1: foreside debut album were sung by women, it would have
Speaker 1: been like, I've never heard such a.
Speaker 3: Bolder, more adventurous record ever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And kind of my chagrined is that they came
Speaker 1: to us and I felt like the thing that really
Speaker 1: made them awesome we got rid of.
Speaker 3: So but that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, it's too bad that that didn't come
Speaker 7: together because I think that there were they would the
Speaker 7: lane was was going to be wide open for them.
Speaker 7: There wasn't. There hadn't been anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like before my fandom for Slum Village, like I
Speaker 1: was about Jazzy Fatnastics.
Speaker 6: That record ever come out, y'all? Can people find the
Speaker 6: Jazzy's on Tommy Boy?
Speaker 1: I mean I found maybe like seven songs, Like I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's rough mixes somewhere, but yeah, sure, Jay Swift
Speaker 1: as it somewhere, you know.
Speaker 7: And plus you know, they're they're another great example, you know,
Speaker 7: like Dala Soul and other acts that we've had where
Speaker 7: the name itself like we have a great name. It
Speaker 7: really helps, you know, jazz fant nasties, what a cool
Speaker 7: name is perfect?
Speaker 6: But can we just say in this moment, everything happens
Speaker 6: for a reason, because if this didn't happen, we wouldn't
Speaker 6: have had the Black Lily, which means there may not
Speaker 6: have been a Jazzmine Sullivan, a Kindred the family, so
Speaker 6: a flowadry, I mean, the listens goes on and on.
Speaker 6: So it's literally like everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 3: Yeah, everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Monica, that that said about imaging, we we
Speaker 1: briefly glossed over it the last episode, but you know
Speaker 1: it's the irony is not lost. Don't mean that, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the the nightmare stories about the office are
Speaker 1: also happening from your most successful groups. How are you
Speaker 1: guys feeling about the time when constantly like if you're thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: we got da La Soul on the ll Cool J tour,
Speaker 1: there should be smooth sailing for them, and yet night
Speaker 1: after night, every tale of violence and pugilism and fighting
Speaker 1: are coming from the one group that, at least on paper,
Speaker 1: isn't supposed to represent that, which.
Speaker 3: I mean, I get their point.
Speaker 1: That they felt that they were pegged in a hole
Speaker 1: which they would have to sort of whatever prove their
Speaker 1: machismo in an age where manchismo was everything in hip hop.
Speaker 1: But when you guys are getting reports back that you know,
Speaker 1: every night DAYLA is kind of getting tested by the
Speaker 1: kids in the yard, especially on tour, and they eventually
Speaker 1: get kicked off of the tour, are you like, are
Speaker 1: you guys starting to think like, well, maybe we went
Speaker 1: too far with the marketing or whatever. I mean, from
Speaker 1: my end that's said it was a lifesaver because it
Speaker 1: gave me something to relate to. But like, in hindsight,
Speaker 1: what do you think it was that sort of put
Speaker 1: them in the position that they really sort of disassociate
Speaker 1: themselves from three F hind and rising.
Speaker 7: Well, okay, there's a lot a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 7: First of all, I think that when they came to us,
Speaker 7: they were very young. They were you know, like eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 7: They came from much more inward type of place than
Speaker 7: an outward like a place. And the reason I say
Speaker 7: this is because it wasn't like they came up like
Speaker 7: a lot of rappers came up doing battles, doing shows,
Speaker 7: you know, they were already experienced live and all that
Speaker 7: stuff that was not De la Salt. They didn't have
Speaker 7: live chops at that point. They did their one I
Speaker 7: think I mentioned this the last episode that they did
Speaker 7: that first, you know, I think it was an album
Speaker 7: release party at Payday and they did this incredible show
Speaker 7: where they had the holding up the placards with the
Speaker 7: lyrics and it was great and everyone, oh, this is incredible,
Speaker 7: this is so different, this is the coolest shit. And
Speaker 7: we had three feet high and rock rising out and
Speaker 7: it had this really unbelievably cool and different type of
Speaker 7: imaging and marketing. And again it was sort of I
Speaker 7: guess for better and for worse, because I think that
Speaker 7: you know, people embrace the entirety of Dylasol because the
Speaker 7: album was so different. The sound was so different, the
Speaker 7: language was so different, their look was so different, the
Speaker 7: imaging was so different. But yeah, they weren't road tested,
Speaker 7: and I think when they got out in there on
Speaker 7: the road with you know, be it Ll or whoever
Speaker 7: else they were traveling with, and they hadn't done the
Speaker 7: grind and they hadn't done those type of live shows
Speaker 7: on a steady basis, I think that it was they
Speaker 7: probably did feel like they had to somehow defend themselves
Speaker 7: or prove them so elves. I'm speculating here because I
Speaker 7: was not out on the road with them, but I
Speaker 7: think the general thing that I have taken away from
Speaker 7: it all these years later is that they they they
Speaker 7: weren't a great live act in the beginning, and then
Speaker 7: they became a great live act, you know, once they
Speaker 7: gained their confidence and they had more experience and they
Speaker 7: were doing it on the regular. They you know, found themselves.
Speaker 7: But but I can't really put all that, you know,
Speaker 7: put the blame for that. Well, jeez, if we hadn't
Speaker 7: done you know, a Daisy Age album cover, none of
Speaker 7: this would have happened, you know. I think now, you know,
Speaker 7: the group has actually re embraced that imagery and it's
Speaker 7: part of their legacy. So if they had some rough
Speaker 7: patches there, you know, finding their way from point A
Speaker 7: to point B, well they came out of it and
Speaker 7: they you know, and then years later, I say, many
Speaker 7: day La Soul performed, they were fantastic. You know, So
Speaker 7: this is.
Speaker 3: Such a class thirty years after the fact. What what
Speaker 3: what were your feelings on day Los Soul is dead? Then?
Speaker 1: And now you know, in my opinion of their entire canon, uh,
Speaker 1: that's probably my favorite album of their of their lot,
Speaker 1: and it's probably the album that kind of built me.
Speaker 3: Like and it's weird.
Speaker 1: I know, people talk in hindsight like it's such a dark,
Speaker 1: nasty record. I think it's actually their funniest record.
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, I didn't think that is dark.
Speaker 1: It's the funniest ship. It's humor, it's biting sarcasm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you guys really did a I mean, the marketing
Speaker 1: for it was awesome, Like they got on the cover
Speaker 1: of Rolling Stone, which was truly unheard of back then,
Speaker 1: and especially you know once the source came into play,
Speaker 1: and that was something in credible them getting five mics there.
Speaker 1: You know, just just in general, like what what were
Speaker 1: the execs at Tommy Boy?
Speaker 3: Thinking, well, were there execs at Tommy Boy? Was just
Speaker 3: you and Tom?
Speaker 7: Well, I mean exacts. I mean we weren't exactly the
Speaker 7: most you know, It's like we didn't have c sweeps
Speaker 7: or anything like that. Like I said, my office was
Speaker 7: like a very sort of claustrophobic type of place. The
Speaker 7: so I wouldn't say like, oh my god, the ripple
Speaker 7: effects through the executive ranks of Tommy Boy. It wasn't
Speaker 7: quite like that. I mean, listen, the group was reacting,
Speaker 7: you know to the you know, pushing back and reacting
Speaker 7: to the Daisy Age imagery that I think at that
Speaker 7: point they sort of feel had been thrust upon them
Speaker 7: and they were trying to shake it off. And uh
Speaker 7: and and and they did. Frankly, you know, I mean,
Speaker 7: look at the cover is so but it's an incredible albums,
Speaker 7: So you know, I don't I don't remember get having
Speaker 7: any particular you know, Zura's about the whole thing. Uh
Speaker 7: Dyala Sula is dead. In fact, I thought it was like, oh,
Speaker 7: this is great. You know, this is gonna be keep
Speaker 7: a story going, and and it's a great album. If
Speaker 7: it was if the album sucked, who would fucking care.
Speaker 7: But it was incredible.
Speaker 1: So did you guys worried at all about them putting
Speaker 1: Renee King's number on the uh Ring Ring Ring Haha?
Speaker 1: He I would call her often pick up at at
Speaker 1: the top of Ring Ring Ring. I guess a woman
Speaker 1: for our listeners out there, there's a woman that pass
Speaker 1: uh met at the New Music Seminar named Renee King,
Speaker 1: and uh she just called and called and called and
Speaker 1: called and called and called and called, left messages after messages,
Speaker 1: and they decided to leave one of her messages on
Speaker 1: Passa's answer machine.
Speaker 2: Two one five two to two four two nine.
Speaker 3: You know that number I'm calling in reference to the music,
Speaker 3: remember who you're talking about? Of course he does. He
Speaker 3: called it too.
Speaker 2: I did not call it. Hell man, my mom would
Speaker 2: have been last.
Speaker 6: I called it longest.
Speaker 1: Bad bad day sold Did I call that number often?
Speaker 1: And spoke to Renee King like she kept that number
Speaker 1: till like. I mean the last I call it was
Speaker 1: like ninety four, but you were a want.
Speaker 3: Do you want to people to go? It was like, hello,
Speaker 3: is this Renee King? Yes?
Speaker 7: This is me?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, it is the like, well, let me.
Speaker 7: Put you this way. I don't think that that would
Speaker 7: have flown today at all. It would be like doxing
Speaker 7: someone but an album, you know, stocking or harassment to
Speaker 7: put somebody's phone number, and I don't even you know.
Speaker 7: That's a good point though, because legally, I'm I'm wondering
Speaker 7: if there was a line that was crossed putting her
Speaker 7: phone number.
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously she had to get permission. I mean,
Speaker 3: she never.
Speaker 7: Retaliated obviously, though I'm not so sure it was obvious.
Speaker 3: She welcomed it.
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know, why didn't you guys release
Speaker 1: a video? Well, I think I'm answering my question right
Speaker 1: now as I say it. For Millie pulled the pistol
Speaker 1: on Santa, very weird choice for a third single. Why
Speaker 1: didn't that come with the video? Because I mean, the
Speaker 1: song was clearly like levels of storytelling, like on Slick
Speaker 1: Rick's level, but instead you guys focused on the B side,
Speaker 1: which was keeping the faith. But I mean, at the
Speaker 1: time and you heard it, like, did you guys truly
Speaker 1: feel like that could have been a single?
Speaker 7: I don't recall your honor, okay years ago, no, I
Speaker 7: I I seriously, I don't recall, but I can tell
Speaker 7: you it sounds like the type of thing where I
Speaker 7: would have said, I don't know, maybe you know, are
Speaker 7: we going to get you know, well, yo, MTV raps
Speaker 7: play this. I don't know, Well this clear you know
Speaker 7: standards practices, although I'm sure there would have been a
Speaker 7: very artistic, interesting way to approach the whole thing. But
Speaker 7: I don't even recall all those.
Speaker 2: Songs about what it's about.
Speaker 3: So how do you write one thing. I don't know
Speaker 3: when did you leave, Tommy Boy.
Speaker 7: I left in February of nineteen ninety eight, so.
Speaker 1: You were there for like stakes as high and I
Speaker 1: never knew like when your era ended, and like what
Speaker 1: albums you weren't there for.
Speaker 7: The last album that I gave a green light too
Speaker 7: was Everlast, everlast solo album.
Speaker 3: That Dante Okay Okay produced, and that was.
Speaker 7: The last one that I said, yep we had and
Speaker 7: it didn't didn't happen very easily either, But that was
Speaker 7: the last What.
Speaker 2: Was how did you have to sell it? What made
Speaker 2: it difficult?
Speaker 7: Well, no, it was because there was internal drama that
Speaker 7: was happening at the label that involved business affairs director
Speaker 7: kind of having a dick war with Everlast attorney, and
Speaker 7: it almost didn't happen, but thank god it did because
Speaker 7: that was a huge you know that might have I mean,
Speaker 7: that album I think did three millions, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, put your jersey in the rest.
Speaker 7: But I left February February ninety eight.
Speaker 1: But just in general, with each Daylight record coming out
Speaker 1: and getting more darker and kind of taking subtle or
Speaker 1: not so settled jabs at the industry, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that's the one thing if I could change anything about
Speaker 1: Daylight I remember my an R Wendy Goldstein telling me, like, Yo,
Speaker 1: no matter what y'all do, never do a song about
Speaker 1: how fucked up your label is because nobody cares. Like,
Speaker 1: nobody cares about the label fucking you over, like anything
Speaker 1: but the label fucking you over? Like, did you guys
Speaker 1: feel a certain way about the subtle jabs that are
Speaker 1: artistic expression? Because even with Balloon Mind State, which seems
Speaker 1: to be everyone's general favorite Daylight record, at least when
Speaker 1: you ask the average person, you know, when they're talking
Speaker 1: about like uh, Patty Duke and all that stuff, Like
Speaker 1: a lot of these songs are specifically aimed at how
Speaker 1: we're not stars anymore and we didn't make it and
Speaker 1: we used to be the shit now like in focuses
Speaker 1: that way and whatnot. Like, did you guys just let
Speaker 1: them go off from their own creativity or was someone
Speaker 1: there to just be like, hey, guys, like, no one's
Speaker 1: going to relate to the fact that you know you're
Speaker 1: not getting properly promoted.
Speaker 7: Well, okay, I mean, first of all, I don't think
Speaker 7: there's any label person in the world who's gonna sit
Speaker 7: back and say, man, it was great when that dig
Speaker 7: really came at me. Of course, it's like, you know,
Speaker 7: it's uncomfortable. It can be a little mortifying. It's like,
Speaker 7: oh shit, you know. And yes, I mean I saw
Speaker 7: the references to Duck season on the which is actually,
Speaker 7: you know, it's that's cool too. I mean, I actually
Speaker 7: have a really good relationship with Rizza. But the thing
Speaker 7: is is that the I think even worse. The worst
Speaker 7: thing you can do is interfere. And I don't there
Speaker 7: wasn't anyone telling them you can't say this or don't
Speaker 7: say that, you know. I think if they needed to
Speaker 7: work that out, however, they wanted to work it out
Speaker 7: and say it publicly. It's fine. And and you know
Speaker 7: sometimes people, you know, there are people say, well, you're airing,
Speaker 7: you know, you're you're dirty launder. No one really cares
Speaker 7: about this sort of drama that's going on over here.
Speaker 7: It's sort of industry, uh, about what's happening in the industry.
Speaker 7: But no, there was no I don't recall there ever
Speaker 7: being anyone's trying to issue a corrective about what they
Speaker 7: could or should say or how they were saying it. So,
Speaker 7: and and in fact, even if you wanted to, would
Speaker 7: probably be feutile and just you know, make you as
Speaker 7: a you know, as a label or an a n
Speaker 7: R person. Look, you know, then you really setting yourself
Speaker 7: up for you know, for criticism. So now.
Speaker 3: How do you how are you guys building your staff?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 1: How does Dante come to your attention? How does what
Speaker 1: other notable Uh? Yeah characters are at Tommy Boy helping
Speaker 1: the machine run? Well, you know our beloved Dante Ross, yes,
Speaker 1: of course, and.
Speaker 7: There's I'm glad you brought that up because this came
Speaker 7: up in a conversation recently because a lot of times
Speaker 7: when people will do interviews and they they always want
Speaker 7: to talk about the artists. Of course that's natural. But
Speaker 7: you know, one of the things that I would say,
Speaker 7: all these years later is I'm them very proud of
Speaker 7: is all the people that I had a hand in
Speaker 7: hiring or that I did hire and who have gone
Speaker 7: on to really pretty amazing careers themselves. And Dante, of
Speaker 7: course is one of them. Dante Uh is a is
Speaker 7: quite a rock on tour in his own right. And
Speaker 7: I hired Dante uh very shortly after he left leor
Speaker 7: Cohen's employ I think it was rather unceremonious parting of
Speaker 7: the ways.
Speaker 1: So is that an awkward thing like if you're one,
Speaker 1: are you friends with other CEOs of other labels? And
Speaker 1: is there an unspoken rule about poaching you know, their
Speaker 1: particular employees to come and work for us?
Speaker 3: And it carried on the stick thing like only.
Speaker 7: Only if only if there's what they I guess would
Speaker 7: be called tor's interference with a contractual uh situation, tortia's interference.
Speaker 7: I'm no lawyer, but the but but but basically, if
Speaker 7: someone's under contract and you interfere and try and hire
Speaker 7: them or sign them and they're under already under contract
Speaker 7: with with the label, you are risking you know, legal action. Yeah. So,
Speaker 7: but but let me tell you le Or did not
Speaker 7: have Dante under contract, and uh and those two, you know,
Speaker 7: I think we're happy to be out of each other's way.
Speaker 7: So so I hired Dante, and you know, it's his
Speaker 7: first day in our job, and you know we uh
Speaker 7: de La Soul was already on the label, and that
Speaker 7: was the first project that I gave him to oversee,
Speaker 7: was the album. So uh so he's obviously gone on
Speaker 7: to great renown and great success. But there's a lot,
Speaker 7: but there.
Speaker 6: Are others, you know, please tell Yeah, well, you know,
Speaker 6: one guy that.
Speaker 7: Comes to mind is a guy named Rod Houston who's
Speaker 7: from Philadelphia.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And Rod started actually as Tom's assistant. And one of
Speaker 7: the great things about when the label was really small
Speaker 7: is that it's not like we had all these different departments,
Speaker 7: you know, like if people started somewhere, they could very
Speaker 7: easily sort of shift into like, oh, guess what we
Speaker 7: need videos? Wait, we don't have someone to do videos. Rod,
Speaker 7: You're going to oversee videos now. And that's in fact
Speaker 7: kind of how it happened. Rod was Tom's assistant, but
Speaker 7: Rod was also in charge of calling the hip hop
Speaker 7: mixed shows. And then he Oh my.
Speaker 6: God, I just looked at h I'm so sorry. I
Speaker 6: realized the reason I know him is not because of
Speaker 6: this career, but it's because of his second career, right Houston?
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, so then he and then he was you know,
Speaker 7: pretty handy with you know, technical and video stuff. So
Speaker 7: he all of a sudden, Rod's like in charge of
Speaker 7: overseeing videos for Tommy Boy, and he's a really incredibly
Speaker 7: great smart I but what you know, Rod uh from
Speaker 7: time to time, he started doing voiceover work and he
Speaker 7: would uh say, hey, Mo, do you mind if I
Speaker 7: can leave you over to Ariston wants to know if
Speaker 7: I can go, you know, do a radio spot for them,
Speaker 7: and yeah, sure, blah blah blah. Well what was starting,
Speaker 7: you know, pretty modestly back then exploded into this wildly
Speaker 7: successful career. Is one of the most you know, he's died.
Speaker 7: I cannot turn on the TV or the radio or
Speaker 7: anything without hearing Rod Houston's voice. He's that successful in
Speaker 7: the voice field.
Speaker 3: Office.
Speaker 7: He always had a reverb machine with himself. Now he
Speaker 7: always had that voice, you know, which made him great
Speaker 7: on the phone. You know, having a good own voice
Speaker 7: is important if you're going to be doing radio promotion,
Speaker 7: you know, or retail promotion, with any sort of promotion. Really, so, uh,
Speaker 7: he's one guy Chris Atlas started, Yeah, wow, I love.
Speaker 6: The old neighs in those mixes out those mixed CDs.
Speaker 7: But his first job was I'm almost certain it was
Speaker 7: his first job in the industry was a Tommy boy
Speaker 7: doing like street promotions and marketing fat man Scoop.
Speaker 3: What in your job there?
Speaker 7: He was doing? Scoop had been working Actually, I think
Speaker 7: at Harlem Hospital. And it was through Alb Ragusa that
Speaker 7: I met Scoop, and Alb said, oh, this guy is
Speaker 7: going to be good, and so Scoops started doing He
Speaker 7: was also doing mixed show promotion, you know. And but
Speaker 7: then you know, Scoop was always such a character, and
Speaker 7: I started putting him in the some of the ads
Speaker 7: on the back cover of the Source magazine.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 7: He soon went on to his own brand of stardom
Speaker 7: as or like the ultimate hype man, doing those hype records.
Speaker 7: Uh your riding?
Speaker 1: Were you the marketing person at Tommy Boy? I was
Speaker 1: my uh well like those jackets and everything.
Speaker 7: Yeah, As the president of Tommy Boy, I was overseeing
Speaker 7: all the creative of Tommy Boy. So that was A
Speaker 7: and R, the imaging, advertising, marketing, promotion, you know, and
Speaker 7: when we got into doing and all the different taschkas
Speaker 7: and merchandising materials that we made, like we had all
Speaker 7: the lanyards. Yeah, we did all these. Albi Ragusa, who
Speaker 7: was another person who started out doing rap promotions and
Speaker 7: segued into doing A and R, was a really had
Speaker 7: really great style. He was very connected with sort of
Speaker 7: the emerging downtown hip hop Skateboard UK, New York, access
Speaker 7: of style. He knew the people at Union, he knew
Speaker 7: James Leavell, he knew Sean Sae, he knew all these
Speaker 7: cats when they were just coming up. And so I
Speaker 7: always looked to alb as you know, as a great
Speaker 7: sort of style and fashion eye. And he was very
Speaker 7: involved when we did a line of clothing. And it
Speaker 7: was you know, when we did the car Heart Jacket,
Speaker 7: which became a very iconic piece. It was Albi's connection
Speaker 7: to Sean Stussy that resulted in that fantastic logo on
Speaker 7: the front, uh front breast right, breast pocket. I think
Speaker 7: I forget which pocket.
Speaker 1: But you know it was those were official Tommy boy.
Speaker 1: I always thought those were like bootlegs. So that was
Speaker 1: commissioned through you guys.
Speaker 7: Oh, absolutely no, No, we produced those things, and uh,
Speaker 7: you know, the car Heart Jacket became sort of got
Speaker 7: its status, uh because we you know, the thing back
Speaker 7: then was to really you know, we had a sort
Speaker 7: of a list of people that we would see lace
Speaker 7: when lacing was a thing, you know, taste makers, artists
Speaker 7: and things like that. So I think it was that
Speaker 7: Car Heart jacket in particular was like one of those
Speaker 7: things that people like, oh shit, you know, either I
Speaker 7: have it or I wish I had it, and uh
Speaker 7: you know so uh And it was sort of the
Speaker 7: beginning of when labels started to branch out into doing
Speaker 7: you know, clothing and things like that.
Speaker 6: Three thousand to five thousand dollars on auction. I'm just
Speaker 6: saying last time.
Speaker 3: Yeah it was one available.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was my it was my jacket.
Speaker 1: There's a hip hop hip hop shop and Philly caught
Speaker 1: the layup that my current Uh oh god.
Speaker 3: I've been with Keith almost thirty years now.
Speaker 1: My production manager used to run it and he had
Speaker 1: a Tommy Boy jacket and I remember like saving up
Speaker 1: for three weeks to buy that thing because I wanted
Speaker 1: to lead people under the impression that Tarika and I
Speaker 1: had signed to tom Records.
Speaker 3: Everywhere everywhere.
Speaker 7: Thank you for sharing that. Well.
Speaker 1: Speaking speaking of your staff, there's one thing I didn't ask.
Speaker 1: Were there any close but no cigar movements in terms
Speaker 1: of almost having an artist that you could have sign
Speaker 1: but lost like at the last eleventh hour.
Speaker 7: Oh wow, Well listen, I'll tell you that there are
Speaker 7: always quite you know a question. I always go, well,
Speaker 7: how come you all didn't sign Tupac. That's a big one.
Speaker 3: Because Digital Underground I forgot oh.
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh why.
Speaker 7: Yeah. You know Digital Underground of course was had done
Speaker 7: very well on Tommy when I was close with Shock
Speaker 7: uh and and also with their manager Atron Adrian Gregory,
Speaker 7: and I knew Tupac from you know, when he started,
Speaker 7: when he was a dancer with Digital and he you know,
Speaker 7: he's a very charismatic. Uh, he's kind of flirty, very
Speaker 7: very much more so of like you know, clown dropping
Speaker 7: Trough on stage. You know, it wasn't necessarily the Tupac
Speaker 7: that people came to know, you know, just a few
Speaker 7: later Bishop, yes, well that that role Bishop and Juice.
Speaker 7: You know, I've always said that was the big turning
Speaker 7: point for Tupac because when Tupac, when the first single
Speaker 7: came out trapped it was Interscope and uh that was
Speaker 7: not you know, that record took some time to break.
Speaker 7: A guy named Steve Berman over at Interscope. You know
Speaker 7: this is they were trying to really make a big
Speaker 7: push into that marketplace.
Speaker 3: And the Steve Berman that's in dre d a video.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that actual Steve Berman the video problem or
Speaker 1: is that a guy portraying Steve Berman.
Speaker 7: Well, Steve Berman has a very specific look uh to him.
Speaker 7: I haven't seen the video.
Speaker 1: I think in Drey Day when like the guy's like
Speaker 1: talking to Easy, the Easy character that what's his name?
Speaker 2: Comedia?
Speaker 3: He just passed away? He just passed away? Right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that Steve Berman in that video and he
Speaker 3: I know he's in an in.
Speaker 7: An eminem record that as is Steve Burman's name, and
Speaker 7: ye he's always Violet Browns on that track. But the
Speaker 7: thing is is that the role of Bishop I think
Speaker 7: was you know, listen, uh pop was you know, he
Speaker 7: was really best friends with Tretch. Him and Trench were
Speaker 7: five running buddies. Uh here in New York. Uh. The
Speaker 7: guy Neil Meritz I think was the name of the
Speaker 7: producer of that film. I remember, you know he you
Speaker 7: know told me one but oh, you know, I think
Speaker 7: you know, Tupac. This was a huge turning point for
Speaker 7: Tupac when he had that persona of that dark, brooding,
Speaker 7: you know, character that was very different really from what
Speaker 7: people had seen of him. I think it was something
Speaker 7: that brought out you know that already it extended into
Speaker 7: you know, his his career as a as a as
Speaker 7: a as a rapper. So but but he was, but
Speaker 7: he was always I think he always was, you know,
Speaker 7: that complex guy. He just what But you didn't see
Speaker 7: that necessarily in his role with Digital Underground. But the
Speaker 7: long story short is that, well actually it's a short story.
Speaker 7: Long is that the Atrin had given me, uh the
Speaker 7: demo tape for Trapped, and we passed on it. I
Speaker 7: still I held on to the cassette and it's now
Speaker 7: in the TUPAC exhibition at Los Angeles. If you want
Speaker 7: to go check it out.
Speaker 3: I'm actually going to see that tomorrow. Well maybe you know,
Speaker 3: but you.
Speaker 7: Said earlier, I mean you said earlier. Things happened for
Speaker 7: a reason. And there's there's artists that just because you know,
Speaker 7: I think that Steve Berman and Interscope had the time
Speaker 7: and the muscle and the desire to really break TUPAC
Speaker 7: and it was the right fit and it was and
Speaker 7: it worked. There are artists that, for one reason or another,
Speaker 7: you know, it just didn't come to pass.
Speaker 3: You know, I have all the.
Speaker 7: A lot of the demo tapes.
Speaker 2: Of Riza was Yeah, like Rizza. His first is Prince
Speaker 2: Rakkim deal, how did Yeah?
Speaker 7: And it was sort of again it was serving that
Speaker 7: interstitial period when he was metamorphosizing from Prince Raccom into Riza.
Speaker 6: Did you like the way that was portrayed on the
Speaker 6: the Wu Tang saga?
Speaker 3: You know, people have.
Speaker 7: People who sat me, uh, I have texted me pictures
Speaker 7: of the lady who plays me, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 7: my god, that's hilarious. So yeah, it was.
Speaker 4: This song was inescapable. I wasn't the biggest fan of it,
Speaker 4: but you know, we couldn't escape it. Gangs Is Paradise or.
Speaker 1: Just how you guys found Polio? Yeah, well he was
Speaker 1: part of the Was he part of the w C
Speaker 1: Matt Circle?
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. He was on w and again he
Speaker 2: was in the video.
Speaker 7: Coolio was fantastic. He was also you know, he had
Speaker 7: some troubles too, but he was pretty. He was great
Speaker 7: to work with, and he was a character and and
Speaker 7: those were great records. You know, Gangster's Paradise was also
Speaker 7: a track that benefited from a significant film placement. And
Speaker 7: and you know, it kind of surprised me that there
Speaker 7: hadn't really been a record up until that point that
Speaker 7: had used pastime Paradise as effectively as that. Did you know,
Speaker 7: this is one of those records, like today you could
Speaker 7: you still hear Gangster's Paradise all the time. Yesterday was
Speaker 7: you know, we had Saint Patrick's Day here recently, jump around.
Speaker 7: You know, that's an anthem. You know, there's certain opp
Speaker 7: is an anthem. We were Humpty Dance is an anthem.
Speaker 7: We were blessed to have lace first, you know, we
Speaker 7: were blessed to have some records, me and myself and I.
Speaker 7: You know anthems, you know, and that is yeah something
Speaker 7: that Supermodel is an.
Speaker 3: Anthem, you know, you know, I was just thinking Ponte.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I think Coolio he's gangster adjacent, Like
Speaker 1: he's almost he feeled the lame that I think Ludicrous
Speaker 1: wound up doing in the arts, Like looks the role,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of gangster.
Speaker 2: Adjacent, like big pop hits. Yeah yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Mean the same thing as Naughty, Like yeah, look the
Speaker 1: role and somehow. I mean, but did you guys imagine
Speaker 1: that he would be as big as he was because
Speaker 1: you guys had like at least four to five major
Speaker 1: hits on him with Coolio?
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah, you know, man, you never know. You just
Speaker 7: never know, because I don't think we didn't hear Gangster's Paradise.
Speaker 7: It hadn't been recorded when we put out the first.
Speaker 1: Track, you know, so no, but even with like Fantastic
Speaker 1: Voyage and the other there's I remember he had, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a couple of joints, remember.
Speaker 7: Why, but there's two records that really.
Speaker 2: I mean the two but I want to say to
Speaker 2: five at least, yeah, y'all, So y'all also signed l V.
Speaker 7: YEP. I am LV yeah, but we didn't have any hits.
Speaker 3: With LV NO.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was a cool song, but.
Speaker 1: I didn't even get Latifa out. Got you when you like,
Speaker 1: how did she come to the label and how? Because
Speaker 1: I know that had to be specific marketing on on
Speaker 1: your end at least, like what was your idea, like
Speaker 1: what did you see in her that you accentuated or.
Speaker 7: What was well. I've always said this that there was
Speaker 7: three people that I will always credit for Latifah coming
Speaker 7: through Tommy Boy, and that would have been Dante, Dante Ross,
Speaker 7: forty five King and Fab five Freddy And they all
Speaker 7: played very critical roles in her early career as well,
Speaker 7: but they were all they all kind of were talking
Speaker 7: to me about her and she came to the office
Speaker 7: the first time she came to the office, and Dana
Speaker 7: was very young. She's an older you know people forget,
Speaker 7: you know, like I mean, she was like eighteen, I think,
Speaker 7: you know. And she again this sort of around the
Speaker 7: way jersey girl. And she came to the office and
Speaker 7: she just had on like jeans and the sweatshirt, no makeup,
Speaker 7: she had her hair done, and you know when gals
Speaker 7: were wearing like there's a like curled on the top,
Speaker 7: is short on the sides type of look and everything.
Speaker 7: And she just was so unassuming and but clearly she
Speaker 7: was very intelligent. She was had a great bearing and presence,
Speaker 7: and and she had enormous charisma. She had this thing
Speaker 7: that it doesn't matter if she's got you know, full
Speaker 7: hair and makeup and a great outfit on or something.
Speaker 7: She just was like, had this really unbelievable presence for
Speaker 7: a young eighteen year old woman who hadn't really been
Speaker 7: you know, I hadn't been off the turnip truck yet.
Speaker 7: You know, she's she'd worked at Burger King and you know,
Speaker 7: had had her own little group in high school. Uh uh,
Speaker 7: you know MC group in high school.
Speaker 6: And but she was just.
Speaker 7: Calm, cool, collected, and she's always had this quality that
Speaker 7: I think has served her incredibly well over many years.
Speaker 7: And she really could walk into any room, she could
Speaker 7: go on to any stage, she could basically, you know,
Speaker 7: mc any event, and she's got that gift. I saw
Speaker 7: her in the very early days at this place called
Speaker 7: Hotel Amazon doing one of her very early shows. And
Speaker 7: you know how I mean the Hotel Amazon was down
Speaker 7: in Lower East Side and one of these places that
Speaker 7: they guess they just were doing hip hop nights on
Speaker 7: the weekend, and it was kind of it was funky.
Speaker 7: It wasn't like some you know, playing at the Beacon
Speaker 7: or some other place where they're all set up for
Speaker 7: sound and lights. This place was not that at all.
Speaker 7: It was the opposite. And the sound went out, and
Speaker 7: you know how like a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 7: if it's the guy, a lot of these guys, fuck
Speaker 7: the sound guy, you toss the mic on the floor
Speaker 7: and stomp off the stage, oh angry, she didn't even flinch.
Speaker 7: She just like kept rocking and even though the sound
Speaker 7: was off and the crowd just nobody missed a beat
Speaker 7: and they were just you know, and and that is her,
Speaker 7: That is her. She just doesn't get flustered that way.
Speaker 7: And she has. She's also she is so musical. I mean,
Speaker 7: she's a singer, you know, she she's incredible. It's an MC.
Speaker 7: You know, she's got this beautiful flow and presence on
Speaker 7: the mic. But she's a great singer. And her mother
Speaker 7: was her late mother's was a tremendous influence on her.
Speaker 7: And to this day we're very you know, I'm still
Speaker 7: close with Dana, and I had was able to work
Speaker 7: with her after I had left Tommy Boy and she
Speaker 7: had gone, you know, into her incredible career as an
Speaker 7: actress and doing all other sorts of things. But actually
Speaker 7: A and R two albums of her her her jazz albums.
Speaker 7: She was incredible to work with. I loved working with
Speaker 7: Dana and and and forty five King. I think, you know, uh,
Speaker 7: he's another guy that I think probably doesn't necessarily get
Speaker 7: as much credit.
Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, ast definitely he's one of my book
Speaker 3: of these people.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, because it was that that whole little
Speaker 7: basement crew and Mark's house that you know, the whole
Speaker 7: sort of flavor unit posse emerged out of that and
Speaker 7: it was and Mark was the you know, it was
Speaker 7: that was the he was the center of all that
Speaker 7: if you watch the O M t V Raps interview
Speaker 7: where Freddie goes out to to the to their basement.
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know, but I saw have on my
Speaker 3: VHS cassette.
Speaker 7: Yeah. And you know, she didn't start as Queen Latifa.
Speaker 7: She started as Latifa and then she became Queen Latifa.
Speaker 7: And that's a situation where you know, like you know,
Speaker 7: the press, you can really tell sometimes with the press
Speaker 7: immediately like it's like, oh yeah, I get that. I
Speaker 7: can really get my head around that. And that was Latifa,
Speaker 7: you know.
Speaker 6: Because there was a fable around that, Like I always
Speaker 6: heard that the queen came from her being involved, not
Speaker 6: being involved with her relationship with like five percenters or
Speaker 6: something like that, but that could have been urban legend.
Speaker 7: I never heard her say that. I mean, I know
Speaker 7: that the word Latifa means delicate and sensitive. I'm not
Speaker 7: sure exactly when and who or if she just bestowed
Speaker 7: the queen crown upon herself, which I think is great,
Speaker 7: but she's you know, one thing about her too, is
Speaker 7: that you find that to this day, like women who
Speaker 7: are were young and in their teens when she was
Speaker 7: first coming up, we're hugely influenced by Latifa. You know,
Speaker 7: I always hear from women like saying, yeah, oh man,
Speaker 7: when I was in high school and ladies spurs came
Speaker 7: out or unity you know, or what you know, whatever
Speaker 7: it might have been. She had an enormous influence on
Speaker 7: a generation of women. And she's and there's also I
Speaker 7: say about Latifa because she's one of those people like
Speaker 7: you say, you know, I don't like rap, but I
Speaker 7: like that Queen Latifa.
Speaker 2: You know that's funny.
Speaker 7: You're right, you know, your great Ann Gert out in Idaho.
Speaker 7: I love Queen Latifa.
Speaker 1: So there's one more artist on your label that sort
Speaker 1: of reached icon status that was not the labeled ninety three?
Speaker 3: Can you talk about how RuPaul came to the label.
Speaker 7: Oh yes, please, yeah, thank you for asking about RuPaul.
Speaker 7: The dance music editor over at Billboard named Bill Coleman.
Speaker 3: Bill Coleman, Yes, and let's do that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, real, sweetheart. He's a great DJ, still doing this
Speaker 7: thing now. And he uh actually got in touch with me,
Speaker 7: he might. I think this is even maybe before email.
Speaker 7: You know, he called me and said, you know, hey, uh,
Speaker 7: these guys, uh Randy and Fenton have this artist named
Speaker 7: ru Paul and there's this trick. I thought maybe you'd
Speaker 7: want to hear it. I thought maybe you'd you'd be
Speaker 7: good for this, So I said, yeah, send it over,
Speaker 7: and and I heard, actually knew who ru Paul was
Speaker 7: because that whole sort of downtown weeknock lady bunny scene
Speaker 7: that was happening already the Downtown's are a drag scene,
Speaker 7: and so I knew who it was, and so we
Speaker 7: got the I got the tape. I listened to it.
Speaker 7: It's like again, it's one of those things where you
Speaker 7: listen to and you say, oh, this is great, this
Speaker 7: is a great pop record, and.
Speaker 3: Oh it was.
Speaker 7: It was. It was supermodel the work exactly, and it
Speaker 7: was again it sort of fell into that category of
Speaker 7: it's either going to be a huge hit or a
Speaker 7: huge failure, and those I think are always the best
Speaker 7: decisions to be confronted with, you know.
Speaker 1: And so there's a sound of See and See Music Factory,
Speaker 1: where like House was now entering the mainstream and wasn't
Speaker 1: underground anymore. But at the time, did you think that
Speaker 1: RuPaul was just going to be like a one off
Speaker 1: kind of like at least if I'm looking at K seven.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, come baby, coming whatever.
Speaker 1: The song was like, Okay, but did you at all
Speaker 1: see the or think that RuPaul had the potential to.
Speaker 3: Be the icon that I think?
Speaker 7: Well, no, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said,
Speaker 7: oh yeah, I saw this, you know, you know, No,
Speaker 7: I mean I thought we got an early super Model
Speaker 7: is going to be a big hit, because that video
Speaker 7: that his managers directed and put together was astounding.
Speaker 2: It was that.
Speaker 7: And also the other thing that I was very involved
Speaker 7: with was placing that record in some key fashion Week shows,
Speaker 7: specifically TODDLD and Isaac Msrahi, because this is back when
Speaker 7: fashion Week was like a cool thing and you know,
Speaker 7: and all the shows that were going on and so
Speaker 7: supermodel and it was also really the era of supermodels,
Speaker 7: so Naomi and Linda and you know, Christy and all
Speaker 7: these people, you know, all that being name checked in
Speaker 7: the record and that scene being really hot and the
Speaker 7: drag scenes are coming up. But you had Rue Paul,
Speaker 7: who is like basketball tall and you know, just no
Speaker 7: one could walk past Ruge. Oh my god. You know,
Speaker 7: this towering goddess ru had had and had tremendous ambition.
Speaker 7: And you know, all of all the artists that I've
Speaker 7: ever worked with Rue, I think had to work the
Speaker 7: hardest because if you want to say, well we're going
Speaker 7: to do a day of in stores or oh we're
Speaker 7: going to have you do press or go to an event,
Speaker 7: well he has to spend hours getting ready. You tell
Speaker 7: that to any rapper was like, really, I think so,
Speaker 7: you know, so Rue had to really you know, it
Speaker 7: was a big undertaking to do all that stuff and
Speaker 7: and MTV uh really broke help break that record too,
Speaker 7: and is the top forty dance record. And we did
Speaker 7: get feedback from I should say it was no one
Speaker 7: really would say it to my face, but I knew
Speaker 7: that there was discgruntlement with a few artists about RU
Speaker 7: being on Tommy BOYD.
Speaker 6: There was oh yeah, I know the rappers wouldn't happen.
Speaker 6: It is what's going on here?
Speaker 3: What are we doing?
Speaker 6: But you don't the label me?
Speaker 7: Yeah? Yeah, not comfortable in certain cases, but yeah, So
Speaker 7: really broke a lot of barriers. And a lot of
Speaker 7: people did say, you know, I don't think any label
Speaker 7: but Tommy boy could have done that with Ru. Paul,
Speaker 7: So I thought that was always high praise.
Speaker 3: How do you generally feel about music now?
Speaker 1: Are you still is the seventeen year old inside you
Speaker 1: still excited about anything musical or is everything in your
Speaker 1: rear view mirror now?
Speaker 7: Oh man, this is I'm so happy you asked that question,
Speaker 7: because when I left Tommy Boy in ninety eight, I
Speaker 7: always sort of joked that I left the music industry
Speaker 7: to learn more about music. I left, I was at
Speaker 7: a very personally, I was at a low point and
Speaker 7: the industry was changing a lot. I was pretty bummed
Speaker 7: out and depressed, quite frankly. And I start working part
Speaker 7: time at a record store after I left Tommy Boy,
Speaker 7: a place called Footlights Down On. It was on Twelfth Street.
Speaker 7: It's a place that specialized in soundtracks and jazz and
Speaker 7: vocals and things like that. So I would be working
Speaker 7: there part time. And then I started I got on
Speaker 7: the staff at WFMU, which is a freeform radio station
Speaker 7: in Jersey City of some renown, and started doing a
Speaker 7: weekly show there. For over fifteen years, I'm still a
Speaker 7: staff member there and still do radio shows. And there's
Speaker 7: nothing I love more than listening to new music and
Speaker 7: old music. I listened to music all the time. I
Speaker 7: constantly have Spotify open and have a million playlists. You know,
Speaker 7: I've nicked quite a few things off of shows that
Speaker 7: you've done when you were doing those regular shows on Instagram.
Speaker 7: I loved the playlist that you did for Greg Taate. Yeah,
Speaker 7: it was really great.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 7: So I'm into all sorts of music, all sorts of
Speaker 7: music from all different eras. I love it more than ever.
Speaker 7: And yeah, I love checking out new stuff. I love reissues,
Speaker 7: and you know, I love going down the rabbit holes.
Speaker 7: So yeah, totally. Yeah. Where do you find music? Where
Speaker 7: do you find music? I'm alway good question. I was
Speaker 7: always curious to find out what your means of discovery are.
Speaker 3: My favorite my favorite game is playing.
Speaker 1: You know, you play a song on your streaming weapon
Speaker 1: of choice, and you know you always look at the bottom,
Speaker 1: go down at the operations, right, and then look through
Speaker 1: that artist and then looking in their artists and looking
Speaker 1: their artists. And Okay, not only that, I would say that,
Speaker 1: you know, as a fan of these these current shows
Speaker 1: that are on HBO, you know your euphorias, your insecures
Speaker 1: and whatnot.
Speaker 3: Like those they go super deep and artists I might
Speaker 3: not have heard before.
Speaker 1: And then I'm fans of theirs or just in general,
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid or ashamed of Shazam anything. So I'll
Speaker 1: be in a supermarket, I'll be in a club and
Speaker 1: if I here something cool, I'm examining it. Ty I
Speaker 1: fold down, I fall down a rabbit hole, like I
Speaker 1: don't agree that. You know, most people say, like, well,
Speaker 1: music's dead now, it's just so much more of it.
Speaker 1: You just got to know where to look. I think
Speaker 1: what's dead is like the taste maker, like you know,
Speaker 1: to have this is kind of why I wish like
Speaker 1: I really had Okay player up and running in a
Speaker 1: way that was running back in ninety ninety thousand, where
Speaker 1: I could always guarantee twelve people would put me onto.
Speaker 7: Something that was true.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's still there. But Monica, I thank you
Speaker 1: for doing this for us. You know, one of the
Speaker 1: perils of doing that afternoon is your lunch break is
Speaker 1: over and you got to go back to your day job.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Bonica for doing this, and Sugar
Speaker 1: Steven and Bill and Fante and Maya and we will
Speaker 1: see you next go around on court.
Speaker 3: Love Supreme. Thank you, m H.
Speaker 7: West.
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production of Iheartened Radio. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart radio, app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.