WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Monica Lynch Pt. 2 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:10.000 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. So, ladies 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.200 and gentlemen, welcome back to Quest Love Supreme. We are 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.840 here this morning or this afternoon, as I paid. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:19.960 Bill has already corrected me. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:25.040 We normally do our episodes at nighttime, so this is 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:26.560 one of the rare moments where. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:29.560 We're doing a daytime episode. 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.320 We attended to do a daytime episode Will Smith, but 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.599 I thought Will was trying to pull the Mariah and 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:37.080 I thought it was one am in the morning. I 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.559 didn't realize we were doing it in the afternoon, so 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.199 you know, so, yeah, daytime Quest Love Supreme should be 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.080 very interesting. So you know, at the time when we 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.959 were talking to our guest Monica Lynch, I didn't realize. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.960 Of course, I knew every potential QOLS episode could possibly 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:57.880 delve into Jimmy Jam territory. 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.040 Every time we refer to Jimmy Jam. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.920 It's usually to the fact that you know that that 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:05.679 particular episode was what six and a half hours I 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.200 believe half hours, Yeah, six and a half hours. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.760 Monica, you could take any one of the acts that 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.800 you discovered and that could be a whole episode by 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.200 itself exactly. 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:20.839 Yeah, of those so you know lately we've been since 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.280 our new home at iHeart, we kind of crammed our 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.120 show down to normal. You know, when we first started, 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.199 I think the our standard was to be a three 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.119 hour episode. I realized that sometimes a person's story arc 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.120 goes over ninety minutes, and I guess towards the end 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.360 of that episode, I didn't want to just skim over 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:45.200 casual moments in history. So our guest today was very 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.960 kind to oblige us a part two kind of a 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.560 first in our In our show, usually we just you know, 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.800 do an entire show for four hours, and then you 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:56.960 might run the risk of the ire of say Hall 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.520 and Notes, who were clearly running out of gas after. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.600 His eyes said when is this done? Because it better 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.520 be soon. Yeah, you couldn't even see his eyes, but 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:11.840 they still said that ship. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.440 QLs fans are going to be so angry because like 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:16.760 I like, you know, I like to build up from 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.239 the beginning of their lives to the peak of their thing. 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.160 And I really didn't even get the nerd out on 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.959 kind of the the glory the Glory Beard of Darryl. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:28.880 I was like, yeah, so I can't go for that. 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:30.400 So anyway, you got a solo record out. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:30.560 Now. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.440 I remember somebody just told us that they had to go. 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.240 Who was recently somebody was just like, yo, I got 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:35.560 to go. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.400 John Notes. John Notes pulled to George Clinton. All right, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.160 so y'all have fun. I'm out my dinners. 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.040 Yeah, wow, this interview is long. We're like, we. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:50.360 Gotta know. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:51.560 That was funny. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.040 There's some people that are Guessed on the show that 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:54.760 are fans of the show that know that we nerd 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.280 out on stuff. But you know, a lot of times, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.480 like Steven Stout was another example where he was just 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.079 shocked that we wanted to know the the but now 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.360 minutia of his career. Like you imagine Steve Stout doing 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.040 an entire interview. Did we even mention the puffy bottle situation? 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:13.240 And well, yeah, yeah, I mean but if that were 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.680 drink champs, you know, that would have been Nory's first question. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.079 You know, so how many stitches did you get? 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.519 But all that to say is we're very grateful, uh 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:22.400 for our guess today. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.519 Monica Lynch, president of Tommy. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.680 Boy Records and arguably one of the most uh successful 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.239 I guess storied labels, not even hip hop labels, because 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.440 a lot of their success came outside of hip hop. 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.000 You could tell just got done listening. 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:40.920 To I've been nerding out on what had happened was 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:42.600 so I feel like open my equal now. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.360 Like the way that I'm asking questions anyway. 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:51.000 I know way way to cross promote other Yeah, right, 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.720 I spread the love anyway. Monica Lynch, thank you very 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.560 much for for obliging us around two oh. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.120 Man, say it's great to be back because you know, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.280 like I was telling your crew, I've been hearing from 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:09.360 everyone now have kids. I used to babysit for. I said, Yo, 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.280 you're in West Love supreme. I can't believe it. You're 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.320 legit now, Like, thank you so much. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.160 You give us the credibility. 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:21.600 And this is the first time that a guest can 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.360 actually come back on the show and tell us about 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.040 the feedback because we get such a quick turnaround. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:25.560 This is dope. 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:29.159 I like that, right, Oh, I like that so, Monica. 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.760 So when we kind of last left the previous episode, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.720 we kind of put the pump the brakes on signing 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.080 DAYLA and really not sensing that there was going to 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:40.920 be a part too. You know, again, as I said, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:42.880 I was skimming through a lot of questions, but Now 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.040 that I have a little more time on my hands, 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:47.800 I kind of want to ask one more question. So, 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.560 you know, with the problems with the problems of having 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.159 well we discussed with Planet Rocke at least, the problems 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.360 of having massive demand and very little staff and knowing 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.000 you know your history, you guys are sort of churned 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:04.200 out not just street cred records, but actual pop hits. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:05.520 Like Tender Love and Lean On Me. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.400 You told the Tender Love story, but can you kind 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.640 of speak on how you guys connected with Jay King 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.039 of Club Nouveau and I guess the facto manager of 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.920 time AX Social Club. I always felt like Club Neuveau 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.320 was a quick response group to the imploding of time 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.360 X Social Club with having such a massive hit, and 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.200 with that group, I felt there was a precursor to 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.240 what did he became because Jay King clearly looked out 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.719 of place on stage as Okay, that guy's clearly the 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.120 CEO of the label trying to promote himself with an 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:41.400 actual group of musicians. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.479 But can you talk about how that whole story came 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:44.719 to be? 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.919 Yeah, thank you. The you know time ex Soocial Club 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.320 was one of those hits that came out of the 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.520 West coast, and not just the West coast, Sacramento, of 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.480 all places, you know, Saca Potatoes. You know, the only 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.000 thing in Sacramento back then was of course, it was 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.599 the head course of Tower Records. So it wasn't really 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:08.800 from a scene that was already you know, uh set, 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:10.960 like in l A or the Bay Area or New 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.840 York or where have you. But that that record was 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.160 a huge record, was on everybody's radar, of course, and 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.880 I think it really broke on the West coast. But yeah, 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:29.839 so you had Jay King, you had Denzil Foster and 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:34.159 Thomas McElroy, you know, great producers who went on to major, 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:38.320 major success. And I can't even remember who the female 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:39.080 voice was of. 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:43.240 The group Valie showns. I think Vali her he first 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.600 name is Valie. And Samuel L who also had. 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.560 A Samuel that's right, did you show you? 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.880 Yeah? But it was actually this was one of those 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.760 unique situations because we were already in a deal with 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.919 Warner Brothers. And shortly after that deal started, which was 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.600 around I guess eighty five maybe eighty six, whenever Tender 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.400 Love came out, there was a guy that was hired 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.640 at Warner Brothers named Benny Medina. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:16.360 Yes, indeed. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:22.080 Yeah, and Benny was made the head of Black Music 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:22.520 A and R. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.240 He started in eighty six, I think around. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.160 Eighty see, I think it was circa eighty six. Yeah, 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:31.040 I'm not sure. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.120 For our listeners out there, we've mentioned Benny a few 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:39.679 times on the show. Benny is technically the fresh Prince 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.640 of bel Air. The you know, the life of what 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.800 Will Smith is playing is actually based on Benny Medina's story, 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.800 and I guess Lenny Kravitz sort of mentioned on his 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.760 episode that you know, Benny started out kind of as 0:07:56.120 --> 0:08:00.720 who was Diddy's psychic with the Umbrella. Yeah, he was 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:05.360 kind of the fonds Worth Bentley to kind of second 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:10.480 seventies early eighties era Barry Gordy, and he formed a 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.360 very interesting disco rock band called Apollo. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:21.760 I've only seen him perform, yes, I put quotes on it. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:25.440 A lot of work. 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:32.120 Yeah something, No, you just google Benny Medina Apollo. 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.199 I've only seen him on Soul Train and Dance Fever, 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.679 And you know, even at the age of eight, I 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.439 was like, Wow, this is weird. But of course Apollo 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.319 contained Carrie Gordy, who was also became a kind of 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.760 got a day job as a as an executive. You know, 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.400 Carrie's younger brother was a rock well of Somebody's Watching 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.480 Me fame. But so when she mentions Benny Medina, you know, 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:57.840 Benny Medina starts off as the real life fresh Prince 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.280 of bel Air, works at Warner for some time period 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.360 and then becomes like supermanager of j Lo and Will 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:05.200 Smith and everyone. 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.719 So sorry, I got to do footnotes for. 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.840 Yeah. No, man, this is you're breaking it down. But yeah, 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.080 he was. He had lived at the Gordie family at 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.880 some point after Apollo. Uh, he was hired by Moe 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:25.000 Austin at Warner Brothers and he was made the head 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.080 of Black an R, Black Music A and R and 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.000 his you know, his very early signings. Uh. I don't 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:39.160 know if you remember the female Body Inspectors. No, wow, fbi, FBI, 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:42.079 I've heard of. 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.320 This before you. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.120 Today kids just used to say it on the playground. 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.280 I didn't know it was at your discuss. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.600 And then there's there was another guy named she I 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.160 think Cedric or Sedrick or he was he was sorry, 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.920 I had that West Coast. Uh, you know, curl activate 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:01.120 going on? 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.440 Are you talking about Sharrick Shrek? 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:05.280 Wait? A minute. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.480 Is that Shreck? Is that the Shrek that's part of 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.000 Wendy Whims's story? 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:12.400 Yes, yes it is. 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:12.760 Wow? 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:13.680 Why why what? 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:14.640 Wait? 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.200 Schrek? Didn't he do call your name? 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:17.920 Just call? 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:18.160 It was? 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.920 You can't call me what you want? Hey? Just it 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.720 was like the greatest Luther song that Luther never sang. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.760 But right, I love that record. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:27.040 I believe. 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.640 At the top of Wendy Williams's UH story, her biopic 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.480 kind of the beginning of her trauma starts with UH, 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:42.840 an unfortunate vision visit to his hotel expert. Yeah, an 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.240 unfortunate visit to his hotel room sort of begins the 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.840 beginning of Wendy's trauma era. 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.319 This is cool, okay, all right, man, I. 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:53.240 Got fane on this show. 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:53.360 Man. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.319 I got to keep up with helpful, useless and about 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:57.599 R and B. 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.679 Actually never heard of so much. 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:06.440 Oh many's all right. So Betty was making his way. 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.640 You know, he'd had a couple of signings, nothing had 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.480 really blown up, you know, big time. But he uh 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.240 got a hold of Jay King when time Ax Social 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:26.960 Club broke and you know, Jay King was really very intense, 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:35.319 kind of difficult. He would like he would have you 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.880 believe that he would have you believed that. Yeah, he 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.080 was a rather compact guy. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:41.600 Short record executive. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.640 Scare the shit out of me, So all right, no, yeah, 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:49.960 yeah I prayed of Sugar Night at all, but short dudes, No, yeah. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.920 He looked like he was buying his suits on Broad 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:57.480 Street and Newark. You know, you're fifty nine ninety nine, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.560 you know, Sunday Church Special episodes, and you know, because 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.640 he just did. He had this whole other look. And 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:09.200 I've got a fantastic photo of me, Bennie and Jay 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.000 King together from that era, and it sort of says 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.520 a lot just in this one photo. But anyway, it 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:21.920 was Bennie who brought in Jay King and what became 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:26.120 Club Nouveaux. I think that the group was already sort 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.840 of at falling apart, and there was power struggles because 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.440 Jay was a very you know, he ran things with 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.679 an iron fist in that organization. But so Club Nouveau was, 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.040 you know, when time X fell apart, Club Neuveau was 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:45.600 the answer. Yes, you're right about that. And the album 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.000 came out through Warner Brothers and through Bennie and our 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:54.000 deal with Warner Brothers. Tommy Boy released all of the 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.839 Club Nouveaux twelve inch singles, which was very significant because 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.960 they had a bunch of hits, you know. And again 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.160 this was a group that was like, who the hell 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.040 are they? You remember all the album cover and twelve 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.880 inch cover artwork, Yes, new faults like silhouette or you 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.440 can it looked like well, kind of looked like the drawings. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:17.959 It looked like prison art. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:24.800 Yeah really yes, Wow, Monica could be borderline a Q member. 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:31.080 And they have like the backdrop exactly, it looked like that, right. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.120 It did look like that. It kind of looked like 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.240 outsider art or something you put next to the you know, 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:36.960 the albums. 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:40.319 They listen to the message in Life, Love and matter 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.800 of fact, I did not buy Life, Love and Pain 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.760 because I didn't like the album cover as it Dang, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.200 that is crazy. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.400 But it's just her face. It does look like a prison. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.360 I forget the first album, not the second half. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.080 Somebody needs to look up who did the artwork on 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.559 all those because there was the same person who did 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.079 all that artwork, and I think, in fact, it was 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:08.120 the same woman who was portrayed on those all those covers, 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.360 and it was ingenious because nobody really knew what Club 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.559 neu Veaux looked like. But there was such a strong 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.840 branding and identity with those covers. You knew when you 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.880 went into the store if you bought Situation number nine, 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.040 that you knew what jealousy. You know, you could say, oh, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.600 it looks like jealousy. You know, buy them all, collect 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:35.720 the whole set. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.520 Bad Situation number nine, glean on me. They all had 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:36.200 the same. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.160 Yeah, they all had the same artwork style, same artist, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.600 and I think it was the same female model that 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.760 was used, like she was going through different phases of 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:51.040 emotions on the cover artwork and all this. But you know, 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.320 that sound was such a it was a sound that 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.560 really traveled quite well. I mean, we never had any 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.000 records that sounded like Club Nouveaux, not a New York 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:06.960 you know sound even remotely. And but in the South, 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:11.840 the West, Midwest, all these places, people love those Club 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.640 neu Veaux records. They may not know who Club neu 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.880 Veaux is, though they love their vou records. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:23.200 Well, I mean they were kind of close to what 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.560 Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis were doing. Like you could 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.840 almost say that Club Neuvau was probably a precursor to 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:35.160 the new Jack sound. Mm you could rhyme over rumors, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:36.880 like back in the day, rumors could. 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.800 Have been a beat on Whodini's record. 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.680 Like, I guess they sort of took the time where 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.440 Larry Smith wasn't able to carry very. 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:53.600 Melodic you know, sort of funky, sort of slower. Yeah, 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.000 and I think I think you're right. You know, Jimmy 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.600 and Terry's influence was being widely you know, their sound 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.160 as being widely copied. 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.360 At that point at the time when time X Social 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:10.400 Club imploded. Kind of my only Internet at least with 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.560 real time news was always like Lee Bailey's radioscope. So 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.560 around that time period, there was a lot of back 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:22.320 and forth between Jay King and the time Ax Social Clubs, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.280 guys like dissing each other. This is the first time 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.360 I'm seeing like what I considered an R and B situation, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.160 Like it's one thing for like Ll and mc shan 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.040 to go to eat each other because okay, they're rappers, 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:32.760 They're supposed to. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.200 Do that, but you know, not to this level. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.320 But that said, were you guys even allowed to have 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:45.840 an audience with Denzel and Thomas for their production or 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.160 did you did you get a sense that they were 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.400 doing all the work musically well. 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.320 First of all, I would say Denzel and Thomas were 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.200 really nice guys, you know, cool, easy to deal with, 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.760 you know, just cool guys. Jay was kind of a 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.040 more sort of paranoid type of guy, and like I said, 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.240 he really was had He was a bit of a 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.359 control freak. Really, I could see where anyone would chafe 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:17.359 under his leadership. And I don't know what the business 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.800 was that they had arranged, but I'm having I have 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:25.200 a feeling it probably wasn't particularly advantageous for Danny and Tommy, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.639 so Denzil and Thomas. So I don't recall. I just 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:36.920 remember Jay always being a guy that was quick, quick tempered, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:42.720 you know, very controlling, you know, not an easy guy 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:47.120 to get along with, tightly wound. But to his credit, 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.760 I would say also that he had a pretty strong 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.639 vision about what he wanted and that it worked. So, 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:59.040 you know, they had a brief and glorious run. And 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.239 it's of course what was the put five on? It 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.040 was much saying I got five on it? 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.080 Yeah, why you treat me so bad? 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:11.119 Why you treat me so bad? Yeah? So but I 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.919 after Lena on me, I don't know whatever happened to 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.760 you know, Jay King or anyone, you know, Denzel and 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:18.960 Thomas of course went on. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.960 With nineteen eighty six being the the I mean, with 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.960 that marriage of Warner Brothers and Tommy Boy. I noticed 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.880 that was the only label that you saw both logos on. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.160 Was there a reason for that? 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.280 Like, is there a reason why three ft Hind Rising 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.840 and Naughty and all the other subsequent Tommy Boy releases 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.280 also didn't have the Warner Brothers logo on it. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:53.399 Oh, it's actually a pretty simple explanation. The deal with 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:58.520 Warner Brothers was that we would have discussions so I 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.880 mutually agree on what artists and albums would be best 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:10.680 suited to go through Tommy Boy's independent distribution system. And 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:17.639 there were select artists like four MDS for example, who 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.359 where they had a shot at getting you know, top 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:26.080 ten black radio hits. And Warner Brothers had an in 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:30.000 house you know, black music promotion and marketing department that 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.520 we didn't have, and so we would mutually agree upon 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:39.480 which releases would go through you know which system. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.680 So the palatable R and B non hip hop stuff 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.080 went through one or sometimes yeah, I. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.080 Mean, and there wasn't like there was that much of it. 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.439 I mean the four mds might be might have been 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.639 the only one, but there was That's not true either. 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.760 Information Society was silent mourning. 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:58.440 Wow, well. 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.720 Every kid in uh oh wait, that wasn't Information Society. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:06.640 It was close. It was no Silent Morning, I think 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:07.159 was Noel. 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.760 Was that a Tommy Body. 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.200 You're thinking Running, Well, you know it's a uh. Information 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:18.639 Society was where their first record was Running, And they 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:23.119 were from Minneapolis and they were They had an interesting 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:28.520 story because they actually were on a label up in Minneapolis. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.679 I think it's called Twin Tone, an indie sort of 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.520 I don't know, alternative rock type of label, and they 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.600 had this record called Running. It was and it was 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.080 actually a little Louis Vega who was working as a 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.600 DJ at El Nido del Diablo The Devil's Nest, which 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:52.960 was club which was Salabatiello's other club running the Fever 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.240 Disco Fever. But you opened this place called The Devil's 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:01.040 Nest and Louis Vega, who along with Joey Gardner at 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.680 Tommy Boy, was also one of the pioneers of the 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:09.160 whole Latin freestyle scene and sound picked up on this 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.080 Information Society record and turned Joey Gardner onto it, and 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:19.880 that it was Joey who brought Information Society to Tommy Boy. 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.160 Joey is my neighbor. He lives upstairs from me, and 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.199 we're like family. You know, he's a kid I plucked 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.639 out of Crazy Eddies twelve inch department, like back in 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.160 nineteen eighty two or eighty. 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:36.359 Three, Crazy Eddies. Wow Eddies was a player in selling records. 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:41.000 You mentioned Information Society. They did a Also, I want 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:42.040 to know what. 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:42.520 Do you think? 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:44.439 You tell me, yes, your energy. 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.520 Yeah, so, I mean even with groups like that sort 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.760 of coming ahead of the curve of like I don't 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.000 know what you would call like depeche Mode or kind 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:58.399 of like those type of yeah, well, post New Waves 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:02.040 sort of like I mean, it's not pop, it's not rock, 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:03.280 but it's definitely synth based. 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:05.840 I guess. For me, my question. 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:11.359 Is is it possible for an independent label, which I mean 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.280 I imagine that you guys were sort of like the 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:18.080 equivalent of trying to navigate a tricycle on the four 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:24.280 h five, So, you know, is it possible for an 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:29.040 independent label to navigate itself in the age of majors? 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.480 You know, like, is A M truly the last independent 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:38.399 major that could operate as a major label? And you 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.399 know what held you guys because I actually feel like 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.000 you guys were in that Motown, A and M lane 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:50.000 where Tommy Boy could have actually became a major. But like, 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:52.800 is someone cutting you guys off at the knees at 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:54.320 the top ord? Like, how does that happen? 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.800 Well, you know, it's interesting because you go back to 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:03.240 really distribution because there was in the early eighties there 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:08.600 were A and M, Motown and I think it was 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.840 might have been Ariston, I'm not sure. There were three 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:16.720 of the very very large independent labels were they were 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.439 independently distributed and then they became majors, and so it 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:25.879 left this entire different field of smaller labels that were 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:31.280 that constituted the indies and independent distribution. But the independent 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:35.160 distribution distributors really sort of got the rug pulled out 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:39.439 from under them when Motown and A and M left, 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:44.879 So it actually presented opportunities for labels like ours. But 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:47.359 when you so that's that might have been in the 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.800 very early eighties, maybe late seventies when that happened. But 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.400 fast forward to you know, circa eighty six or so, 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:57.119 you know, be it Tommy Boy or any of the 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:03.480 other independent labels. It was almost impossible to even contemplate 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:10.639 having pop records and cracking top forty radio or even 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:13.320 it was a pretty rare event to even have, you know, 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.520 be able to have a top five or top ten 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:19.159 black radio single. You know, we just didn't have the 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:22.040 sort of muscle. I mean, these are labels that had 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:27.800 full on departments, and they had a lock on the slots. 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:30.280 You know, it was not an even playing field. 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:32.880 You know, a lot of is it a thing where 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.000 is it a thing where let's say, like Walter Yetnikov 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:41.159 at Sony or you know where Okay, you guys are 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:45.320 basically fighting for at least thirty or forty positions at 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:49.080 a major label, And is it a thing where it's 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.760 just an unspoken given that you know, we got to 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:56.680 save at least fifteen spots for a Sony artist, a 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:57.960 Michael Jackson shade. 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:03.680 I wouldn't even say unspoken, you know, uh, it was spoken. Yeah, 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:06.359 it was spoken. I mean, you know it was be 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:10.280 it wasn't even uh, you know, it was just so 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:14.680 much muscle, so much leverage. You know, you want Springsteen tickets, 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:19.240 you want to do the giveaways for you know, you know, refrigerator, 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.960 you know, you've got this, you've got that. We just 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.200 didn't have those those sort of resources, those tools. It's 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:26.080 not like things. 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.119 Your success was word of mouth, like, wow, I really 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:31.040 like this lean on Me song, so let me add it. 0:25:31.760 --> 0:25:34.320 The any hits that we had had to have much 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:39.120 more muscle and hit power behind it to even get 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:42.320 a shot. Really, but you know, uh, but lean on Me, 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:45.560 of course was unique in that it was a cover, 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:49.560 It was in a big film, it was on a 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:54.640 big soundtrack, you know, so uh, you know, it had 0:25:54.720 --> 0:25:57.440 a lot of uh, there was a lot of support 0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:00.320 mechanisms with that particular rack. 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:03.000 And did the club DJs help with that too? Like 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:04.760 it was seemed like a lot of club New World 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.040 records were working in the club. So did that worked 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:08.280 for you? Off favor a little bit more? 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:12.159 I would say, actually, their biggest hit, being lean on Me, 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:13.280 was probably. 0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:16.480 Not really it wasn't It wasn't yeah, No, it wasn't. 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:19.280 A club record. The other records were much more you know, 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.000 street and club type of records and radio record black 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:28.240 radio records, but lean on Me was I forget. I 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:30.760 can't even remember the name of the movie lean On Me. 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.360 All right, well there you go, there you go, so. 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:37.640 You know, but that's also after the fact because lean 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:39.760 On Me came out in like eighty nine, whereas a 0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:42.399 single camp you know, Club New Vote came out in 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:45.760 eighty six. But yeah, you know, it's it's a thing 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:49.080 where it's a song where both generations gen Z, gen 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:53.280 X and Baby Booners knew the song. And it was 0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:56.280 weird to hear, you know. It was like, you know, 0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.320 the beat felt like post Rick Rubin def Jam, So 0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:03.720 it was definitely yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:06.439 And there was a great woman who worked for many 0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:11.960 many years at MCA Records named Kathy Nelson. And Kathy 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:18.480 was really one of the pioneers of that soundtrack era 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.520 that was so huge in the late eighties and early nineties, 0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:27.399 and she put a lot of black artists on those 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:32.760 soundtracks where that wasn't necessarily happening as much prior to that. 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.160 She was always like she'd said, Pica, you've got anything, 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.560 I'm looking for a track for this record? How about 0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:43.399 that Club New Veaux. She had a funny way of talking. 0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:46.359 She was great. She's had a lot of energy, very dynamic, 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.399 redheaded Gal. She was a powerhouse. She worked there with 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:53.680 Al Teller. I don't know if you remember Al Taller. No, yeah, 0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:57.760 so in any case, but she was it was her 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:02.200 through her that we got that placement, you know. And 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.359 also I just want to say, you may before we 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:07.680 get off the topic entirely of Benny Medina. Benny played 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:12.119 a very critical role with Tommy Boy in that he 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.679 brought in Uh. It was through him actually that Naughty 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:22.119 by Nature landed on Tommy Boy. And it's a circuitous route. 0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:24.560 Yeah, tell us the story. 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.000 Well, I want to make sure I get it all right, 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.560 but I probably won't. But but the thing is is 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:36.240 that once upon a time we were pitched to sign 0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:39.920 Naughty by Nature, but they weren't Naughty by Nature at 0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:45.360 that time. They were called somebody helped me the new 0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:52.640 style and you style. Yeah, and and they were actually 0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:56.160 on a label called Bona Me, which was part of 0:28:56.320 --> 0:29:01.600 Sylvia and Joe Robinson's empire. And they were wearing and 0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:02.840 they wore zoot suits. 0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:05.400 No they didn't, No, no, not Vinnie, No. 0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:10.880 They did not. They did. I seen a photo, yeah, yeah, 0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:11.400 had a photo. 0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:15.160 Yes, So they weren't they were not Naughty by Nature 0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:20.320 yet and they did, whether in sound, attitude, style, nothing, 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:24.600 you know, they were in a different larval stage of 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:25.600 their career. 0:29:26.120 --> 0:29:30.200 So can I ask, did you guys truly know what 0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.719 you had? Because only in retrospect I will say that 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:41.440 Naughty by Nature is probably the best storied example of 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:45.760 riding the thin line between authentic hip hop because as 0:29:46.040 --> 0:29:49.240 as an MC and a lyricist, you know, Tretch was 0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:52.200 no joke. Truch was an influential MC, like so good 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:55.400 almost like he's in ELL's lane where you know you're 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:56.640 so good you don't get credit. 0:29:57.440 --> 0:29:58.320 Yes, that's Tretch. 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:03.920 Yes, And but these songs, like they wrote massive anthems 0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:06.760 and like the their knack for really good pop hooks? 0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:10.200 Did you know instantly? Oh we can really? 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:14.360 Because I mean they're coming out post wild thing, postbuster 0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:17.120 move where like a pop wrapper really has to go 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:21.200 non threatening rat to get to the other side, Like, 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:24.400 did you guys know instantly what you had? Or was 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.080 it sort of like a learning process where oh, wait 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.960 a minute, we can do another one and another one 0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:30.680 and another one. 0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:33.240 Well no, no, I think that. Well, first of all, 0:30:33.560 --> 0:30:36.800 they weren't all all those records and not been recorded, 0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:41.400 you know at single point I think anyone who heard 0:30:41.400 --> 0:30:44.160 OPP knew that they were listening to a smash it. 0:30:44.240 --> 0:30:47.240 There was a one listen record, nobody, you know, you 0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:49.520 didn't have to you'd have to have a real ten 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:51.120 ear not to hear OPP. 0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:54.280 Was that the response from radio when they when you 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:56.120 played it for them, Monica, I'm just curious, they were like, 0:30:56.160 --> 0:30:56.720 oh yeah. 0:30:56.600 --> 0:31:00.360 Man, well before radio, I mean, radio was not always 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.560 the first stop, you know. But here's the thing, here's 0:31:03.600 --> 0:31:08.360 the stage setting that. When Naughty by Nature came around 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:12.600 and they had OPP, these were guys from New Jersey, 0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:17.240 and nobody was really checking for New Jersey at that point. 0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:21.120 New Jersey was not the most legit place to be 0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:24.840 from as an MC at that point in time. You 0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:26.280 had to be from the five Burgh. 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:29.440 Did it matter, Yeah, it did matter. 0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.320 It did matter because you were you were in that 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.880 era of sort of clicks and cruise and who you 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:38.840 down with and who's your producer? Pretty red man? 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:39.120 Right? 0:31:39.240 --> 0:31:39.320 Like? 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:42.000 So, yeah, what the album was? Ninety two? 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:42.680 Okay? 0:31:42.800 --> 0:31:46.600 Okay, yeah, I mean I forget. Maybe somebody, can you know, 0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:47.200 tell me what. 0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:50.560 Is the first Naughty album? 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:53.360 Okay? So, so OPP came out before this. I might 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.360 have been ninety or early ninety one. But the thing 0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:59.000 is is that no one was really checking for Naughty 0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:04.000 by Nature. The opp however, was one of those records where, 0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:07.240 you know, I always I have always said this, the 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:09.520 best records you can ever get are the ones that 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.240 a two year old and one hundred and two year 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:17.560 old can get into, you know, because it crossed all 0:32:17.720 --> 0:32:21.120 party lines, and you had that Jackson five sample that 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:25.000 people knew it was part of the musical DNA for 0:32:25.400 --> 0:32:29.000 damn near everybody. But the thing that really was a 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:34.600 very big turning point for Naughty by Nature being you know, 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:38.960 elevated and checked in a different way, was when the 0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:42.720 premiere issue, well I should say it was sort of 0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:47.360 like the test run issue of Vibe came out, and 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:49.600 in fact it wasn't even called Vibe yet, it was 0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:54.080 called Volume. And I was friends with the guy who 0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:56.200 was the editor, the first. 0:32:56.040 --> 0:33:00.520 Editor, Alan Alan Light No No No. 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:04.840 Allen was later the little gray cells are not what 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:08.440 they used to be. He's a big writer for a 0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:11.320 lot for Vogue and a lot of other places now, but. 0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:22.120 No first editor Vibe, Jonathan van Meter, and I was 0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:25.280 kind of friendly with him, and this guy named Gil 0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:31.000 Rogan at time, uh, Time Warner Publications, Time Magazine and 0:33:31.000 --> 0:33:32.320 all the publications that they had. 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:37.200 Anyway, it was just it was Quincy Jones project. Of course. Anyway, 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:42.280 somehow I said, oh, you know what if I went 0:33:42.400 --> 0:33:46.920 to uh, you know, god, what is his name now, 0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:50.160 the photographer that did the the big photo. I went 0:33:50.200 --> 0:33:55.280 to this, No, this is all before Jonathan Mannion, but 0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:58.600 he's really incredibly well known photographer. Said oh, you know, 0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:02.720 we could do this story about all of the hip 0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:09.600 hop artists who are starting to wear tattoos, and wow, 0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:11.919 it was a thing. Well, you know, this is very 0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:16.000 early nineties and there was a lot of kids who 0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:20.640 were really starting to get into the tattoos scene. And 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:27.680 and so I lined up this photo session and I said, oh, yeah, 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:32.279 I get you know, I got Puffey and the guys, 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.640 I got Naughty and a bunch of people from different 0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:39.280 groups and different camps. And he did the photo session 0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:42.160 and the big, the big photo that came out of 0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:48.399 it was Tretch with his shirt off, arms up like this, 0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:54.160 and that landed on the cover of what was really 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:56.879 the first issue of Vibe. And like again I guess 0:34:56.920 --> 0:34:59.879 it was. It was a test run issue. I think 0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:02.839 at that point they called it Volume and they had 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:05.399 to change the name because the word volume was owned 0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:08.040 by some other publication in the UK. 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:09.360 Albert Watson. 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:14.040 Albert Watson, thank you, Yes it was Albert Watson, great guy, 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:20.600 really an amazing photographer. And uh but in any case, uh, 0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:23.480 of course, you know, Scott Pols and Brian came up 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:26.400 with a much better name for for the publication. But 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:31.920 it was that cover that women saw a Trench cover 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:33.759 game over. 0:35:34.000 --> 0:35:36.080 Yeah, yeah, so that was the game changed. 0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:47.279 Gone machete, you know it, machete, the huge chains and 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:49.120 trash like this. 0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:53.680 Women just totally watched it and it was like, so, 0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.440 so Trench is all of a sudden a sex symbol 0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:04.440 and Naughty continues having really amazing hits and KG you know, 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:09.280 I think also underrated Frankly as a producer, a really 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:13.680 great producer, and Vinnie was like, you know, such the 0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:16.279 spark plug of the group. They were fantastic as a 0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:21.839 live act, and they kept having these great records. Yeah 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:24.320 but they but at that point, you know, when OPP 0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:28.600 came out, it really new Jersey was not really happening. 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:31.600 And one of the other things that was really big 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:34.080 about OPP is when we did the video for OPP 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:36.359 and we did. This is a crazy thing, but this 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:39.560 is how it was independent labels back then. We just 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:42.960 made these little stickers. They cost nothing to make, it 0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:47.600 says you down with OPP right, And they featured prominently 0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:50.520 in the video, and we would hand out packs of 0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:52.719 one hundred and a thousand stickers. They were, you know, 0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:54.680 hand them out all over the place. It was like 0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:59.000 having your own street army of kids spreading the word 0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:01.480 on OPA, just with those damn stickers. 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:03.400 And then everybody wanted the stickers. It was like, you 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:04.320 gotta want them stickers. 0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:04.879 You got them sticks. 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:07.799 I don't put on my traffic keeper by exactly. 0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:10.280 It's like when you give a kid a pack of stickers. 0:37:10.280 --> 0:37:13.120 They were like deputized locker. 0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:21.160 Yes, was there any truth to the rumor? I've read 0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.080 this a lot of places. Was there any truth to 0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:25.759 the rumor that trech or someone from not I don't 0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:29.200 know the tretch brought a bag of snakes? 0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:33.640 Yes, it's not a rumor, it's truth. And I'm happy 0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:39.680 to share that story. Yes, because someone someone asked me 0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:43.760 about this recently and I said, yeah, here's the story. 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:50.040 Man on a weekday morning, a Tommy boy And again 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:53.319 we're talking about maybe crack of dawn, like ten am 0:37:53.480 --> 0:38:00.239 or something. I was in my office and the receptionist said, hey, hey, 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:05.799 Trenches here with some of his guys, Pooky and I 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:09.319 forget who there maybe three guys. I think always there's 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:12.000 always a Pooky, and I still remember Pooky. Pooky's actually 0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:17.680 a nice guy. But they're here. They're demanding to see Tom. 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:22.920 They're kind of upset. And Tom wasn't there and so 0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:27.320 and his office door was closed. So they marched around. 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:31.320 They march around the around the corner to my office. 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:35.880 My office at Tommy Boy was across from the only bathroom. 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:39.600 There were no windows in my office, you know, poor ventilation. 0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:42.319 You know, I got the whole smell of vision in 0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:46.719 my office. But it was But they just showed up 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:50.440 in my office and Tretch he was, you know, Treutch 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:53.080 is actually kind of a quiet guy. He was a 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:56.360 man of few words. Really wasn't like, you know, he 0:38:56.440 --> 0:39:00.960 wasn't like yelling or you know whatever, hopping off or anything. 0:39:01.320 --> 0:39:05.560 He just had this shoe box, uh, and he opened 0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:11.640 it and he dumped out what were really like garter 0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:16.680 snakes and mice. These were the type of things that 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:21.759 you would have gotten at a pet supply store and mice, yeah, mice, 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:27.520 and okay and so and and of course like I'm 0:39:27.640 --> 0:39:29.560 you know, mortifed, like what the fuck? And they just 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.000 you know, and then they just ran out. There's no 0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:33.920 like explanation or anything. 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:37.120 Well, come to friend one of your more successful groups. 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:41.439 Yes, yes, that's the ones that was getting loved. 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:45.399 Well, ghetto Bastard wasn't didn't go double platinum or it's 0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:46.160 the one wasn't. 0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:51.200 Here's why it happened. So it was a dumbest fucking ship. 0:39:51.960 --> 0:39:55.960 There had been a dispute that really involved the business 0:39:56.040 --> 0:40:01.480 affairs guy and the group's attorney, and it was over. Now, 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:04.279 when I talk about the most mundane shit, it's sort 0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:07.640 of mundane when you had cause that's where the you know, 0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:12.480 such a probably the number one format at that time 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:18.400 for albums, and there was a big dispute over the 0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:22.799 J card for the album that was coming out, because 0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:24.479 you know how like when you get a J card 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:28.960 and sometimes it would be folding out and advertising stuff 0:40:29.120 --> 0:40:32.680 or whatever, lyrics and blah blah blah. Well there's a 0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:36.439 dispute because Naughty had started making their Naughty. 0:40:36.160 --> 0:40:39.400 Gear gear yo, okay, and they wanted. 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:43.920 They wanted to have a free panel on the J card, 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.960 and lawyers being lawyers, they were sort of dicking each 0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:49.800 other over about, well, if you're going to have this panel, 0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:52.920 you're going to have to pay point zero seven cents 0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:56.440 per panel. Blah blah blah. By the time this is 0:40:56.560 --> 0:41:00.359 translated to the group, you know, it has become World 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:05.600 War three. And I wasn't even really aware of what 0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:09.400 the issue was. But the thing is is that what 0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:12.120 year did this happen? The snakes and. 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:14.520 The mic. 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:17.800 I don't remember what year this was. I mean, I 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:20.359 would guess this is probably ninety one ninety two when 0:41:20.360 --> 0:41:25.520 this incident happened is before we moved downtown. So but 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:30.160 it was in the age of maybe beepers and you know, 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:34.359 stuff like that. So by the time word made its 0:41:34.360 --> 0:41:36.880 way downtown to the source and the rest of the 0:41:36.960 --> 0:41:41.160 hip hop world, it had become like yo. And then 0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:47.920 he brought an anacondas and rats and it became, you know, 0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:52.520 within ten to fifteen minutes, it was like, you know, 0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:53.920 the biggest event. 0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:57.040 It would have made more sense if you would have 0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:00.319 had anaconda's and boro constrictors, because like gardens make some 0:42:00.360 --> 0:42:01.800 small like pet store. 0:42:02.200 --> 0:42:02.759 My sight. 0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:05.800 Well, he was making a statement, and I guess a 0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:07.440 statement he wanted to make us. Hey, you know you 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:08.520 guys are rats and. 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:12.480 Snakes, snakes on your desk. You wouldn't hear fuck what 0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:13.040 kind of snakes? 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:14.839 No you're right? No, no, no, you forgot no, no no no. 0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:17.080 I saw water bug last night, almost diagnosed. 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:21.760 So then so then about less than an hour after 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:24.480 the incident, I get a call from Shot Kim. And 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:30.560 Shot Kim is Latifa's business partner and also managed a 0:42:30.640 --> 0:42:35.719 naughty and he was apologizing. Man, I you know, he 0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:39.720 just was smoking some strong stuff this morning or whatever 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:41.680 it was. He was really pissed off and I'm sorry 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:44.920 that happened. Blah blah blah. But it already it became 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:49.040 one of those things of hip hop lore. So but 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:49.760 that's the story. 0:42:49.960 --> 0:42:52.120 But I added to their whole Chrissona. 0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:55.279 Yeah, yeah, it was a you know, listen, it's one 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:57.480 of the look we're sitting here in twenty twenty two, 0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:02.400 you're asking me about you know, obviously it's lived on 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:04.000 in infamy. 0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:06.720 Were your offices located on First Avenue? 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:11.080 Yes, we were, Okay, I'd say we were in the 0:43:11.160 --> 0:43:16.800 hip hop hinter lands. It was York Avenue, First Avenue, 0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:20.799 in an area called Yorkville. We're very close to where 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:26.320 the Mayor's you know, I'm. 0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:27.960 Only asking that's it's an inside joke. 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:32.480 I never knew it's it's it's one of those moments 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:38.920 where Dayla had jokingly credited uh a fictional like a 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:42.880 song what was the B side? To me myself, and 0:43:42.920 --> 0:43:45.279 I fante, oh, what's more? 0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:45.239 What's more? 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:50.080 What's more was credited to uh being a song on 0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:52.320 the soundtrack to Hell on First Avenue? 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:56.160 And I was like, wait, is that a real movie? 0:43:56.520 --> 0:44:00.160 And I didn't know if they told me that if 0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:03.960 Tommy Boy was on referring to Tommy Boy, but probably. 0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:07.600 Yeah it was. You know, it's funny because uh, we 0:44:07.600 --> 0:44:10.320 were up there. We had these offices above a soccer 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:15.760 store called Dos Soccer and but Jive Records was actually 0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:19.760 just a couple of blocks over over on Lexington, and uh, 0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:21.960 you know I used to walk over there sometimes and 0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:24.920 Brenda K. Starr lived across the street from the Tommy 0:44:24.920 --> 0:44:28.840 Boy offices, and uh, yeah no, actually it was a 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:31.040 great run at those offices. Yeah. 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:36.320 Actually, fun fact, I believe the roots shot there proceed 0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:40.919 two video with roy Ayres on the rooftop of Tommy Boy. 0:44:41.480 --> 0:44:42.280 Oh you're kidding? 0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:43.400 Why I believe? 0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:47.480 I believe this is This is how I got to 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:49.960 know who the Jazzy Fad Nasties were, because when we 0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:53.080 were done shooting that video and I went down and 0:44:53.120 --> 0:44:55.520 had to pass your offices, there's a poster of the 0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:59.080 for the on the wall, and then I guess someone 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:02.520 told put someone had to be listening to their music. 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:04.120 And I was like outside the door, like, what the 0:45:04.120 --> 0:45:06.160 hell is This is crazy shit I ever heard, and 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:10.319 someone explained that, you know, Quentin had gotten a label 0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:12.120 deal with you guys and whatnot, and they gave me 0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:14.080 a tape and I listened to it in the car 0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:18.600 obsessively and then stalked them. And then they moved into 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.359 my house for the next fourteen years and they were left. 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:27.239 You probably they're still in my house right now. 0:45:27.400 --> 0:45:29.520 No, it was. 0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:33.799 Actually an A and R guy named alb Ragusa who 0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:38.680 was involved in bringing the Jazzy Fat Nasties are. When 0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:44.040 I loved what they were doing. It was totally different, 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:49.560 cool out there like incredible. You know. My recollection though, 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:52.560 is I think that at that point the group themselves 0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:55.080 were not entirely. 0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:57.520 Uh yeah, they were slowly imploding. 0:45:57.600 --> 0:45:59.959 But I mean from what I heard, you know, jays 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:04.000 Swift was really gearing them up to be. If the 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:08.400 foreside debut album were sung by women, it would have 0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:10.200 been like, I've never heard such a. 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:12.319 Bolder, more adventurous record ever. 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:17.640 Yeah, And kind of my chagrined is that they came 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:20.240 to us and I felt like the thing that really 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:23.040 made them awesome we got rid of. 0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:26.080 So but that's neither here nor there. 0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:28.399 Well, you know, it's too bad that that didn't come 0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:30.840 together because I think that there were they would the 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:33.319 lane was was going to be wide open for them. 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:35.759 There wasn't. There hadn't been anything. 0:46:36.520 --> 0:46:39.279 Yeah, like before my fandom for Slum Village, like I 0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:41.400 was about Jazzy Fatnastics. 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:43.400 That record ever come out, y'all? Can people find the 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:44.640 Jazzy's on Tommy Boy? 0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:49.160 I mean I found maybe like seven songs, Like I'm 0:46:49.160 --> 0:46:53.000 sure there's rough mixes somewhere, but yeah, sure, Jay Swift 0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:54.880 as it somewhere, you know. 0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:58.799 And plus you know, they're they're another great example, you know, 0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:01.960 like Dala Soul and other acts that we've had where 0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:05.880 the name itself like we have a great name. It 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:09.600 really helps, you know, jazz fant nasties, what a cool 0:47:09.719 --> 0:47:11.240 name is perfect? 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:13.280 But can we just say in this moment, everything happens 0:47:13.320 --> 0:47:15.240 for a reason, because if this didn't happen, we wouldn't 0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:16.640 have had the Black Lily, which means there may not 0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:18.759 have been a Jazzmine Sullivan, a Kindred the family, so 0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:21.440 a flowadry, I mean, the listens goes on and on. 0:47:21.480 --> 0:47:24.160 So it's literally like everything happens for a reason. 0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:25.480 Yeah, everything happens for a reason. 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:29.880 Yeah, so Monica, that that said about imaging, we we 0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:33.960 briefly glossed over it the last episode, but you know 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.480 it's the irony is not lost. Don't mean that, you know, 0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:40.239 kind of the the nightmare stories about the office are 0:47:40.239 --> 0:47:43.200 also happening from your most successful groups. How are you 0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:49.040 guys feeling about the time when constantly like if you're thinking, okay, 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:52.200 we got da La Soul on the ll Cool J tour, 0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:57.279 there should be smooth sailing for them, and yet night 0:47:57.280 --> 0:48:01.640 after night, every tale of violence and pugilism and fighting 0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:06.759 are coming from the one group that, at least on paper, 0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:08.680 isn't supposed to represent that, which. 0:48:09.400 --> 0:48:10.560 I mean, I get their point. 0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:13.680 That they felt that they were pegged in a hole 0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:15.919 which they would have to sort of whatever prove their 0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:20.799 machismo in an age where manchismo was everything in hip hop. 0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:25.000 But when you guys are getting reports back that you know, 0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:31.239 every night DAYLA is kind of getting tested by the 0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:34.880 kids in the yard, especially on tour, and they eventually 0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:38.719 get kicked off of the tour, are you like, are 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:41.560 you guys starting to think like, well, maybe we went 0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:44.200 too far with the marketing or whatever. I mean, from 0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:46.600 my end that's said it was a lifesaver because it 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:50.360 gave me something to relate to. But like, in hindsight, 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.000 what do you think it was that sort of put 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:57.040 them in the position that they really sort of disassociate 0:48:57.120 --> 0:48:58.840 themselves from three F hind and rising. 0:48:59.600 --> 0:49:03.359 Well, okay, there's a lot a lot to unpack there. 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:08.719 First of all, I think that when they came to us, 0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:14.160 they were very young. They were you know, like eighteen nineteen. 0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:20.560 They came from much more inward type of place than 0:49:20.560 --> 0:49:23.080 an outward like a place. And the reason I say 0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:25.200 this is because it wasn't like they came up like 0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:29.240 a lot of rappers came up doing battles, doing shows, 0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:34.440 you know, they were already experienced live and all that 0:49:34.440 --> 0:49:37.200 stuff that was not De la Salt. They didn't have 0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:42.880 live chops at that point. They did their one I 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:44.919 think I mentioned this the last episode that they did 0:49:45.640 --> 0:49:49.200 that first, you know, I think it was an album 0:49:49.239 --> 0:49:53.120 release party at Payday and they did this incredible show 0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.960 where they had the holding up the placards with the 0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:01.000 lyrics and it was great and everyone, oh, this is incredible, 0:50:01.040 --> 0:50:04.520 this is so different, this is the coolest shit. And 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:08.359 we had three feet high and rock rising out and 0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:13.920 it had this really unbelievably cool and different type of 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:17.239 imaging and marketing. And again it was sort of I 0:50:17.280 --> 0:50:20.080 guess for better and for worse, because I think that 0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:24.200 you know, people embrace the entirety of Dylasol because the 0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:27.680 album was so different. The sound was so different, the 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:30.640 language was so different, their look was so different, the 0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:36.120 imaging was so different. But yeah, they weren't road tested, 0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:40.000 and I think when they got out in there on 0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:44.320 the road with you know, be it Ll or whoever 0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:47.960 else they were traveling with, and they hadn't done the 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:51.280 grind and they hadn't done those type of live shows 0:50:51.280 --> 0:50:55.480 on a steady basis, I think that it was they 0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:58.960 probably did feel like they had to somehow defend themselves 0:50:59.080 --> 0:51:03.400 or prove them so elves. I'm speculating here because I 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:06.759 was not out on the road with them, but I 0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:10.759 think the general thing that I have taken away from 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:14.480 it all these years later is that they they they 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:19.160 weren't a great live act in the beginning, and then 0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:23.160 they became a great live act, you know, once they 0:51:23.200 --> 0:51:26.120 gained their confidence and they had more experience and they 0:51:26.120 --> 0:51:30.200 were doing it on the regular. They you know, found themselves. 0:51:30.800 --> 0:51:34.759 But but I can't really put all that, you know, 0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:37.520 put the blame for that. Well, jeez, if we hadn't 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:40.520 done you know, a Daisy Age album cover, none of 0:51:40.520 --> 0:51:43.960 this would have happened, you know. I think now, you know, 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:49.239 the group has actually re embraced that imagery and it's 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:53.560 part of their legacy. So if they had some rough 0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:57.040 patches there, you know, finding their way from point A 0:51:57.160 --> 0:52:00.160 to point B, well they came out of it and 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:03.840 they you know, and then years later, I say, many 0:52:04.920 --> 0:52:07.640 day La Soul performed, they were fantastic. You know, So 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:08.839 this is. 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:12.560 Such a class thirty years after the fact. What what 0:52:12.560 --> 0:52:15.279 what were your feelings on day Los Soul is dead? Then? 0:52:16.480 --> 0:52:22.960 And now you know, in my opinion of their entire canon, uh, 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:27.560 that's probably my favorite album of their of their lot, 0:52:27.800 --> 0:52:31.279 and it's probably the album that kind of built me. 0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:33.239 Like and it's weird. 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:35.360 I know, people talk in hindsight like it's such a dark, 0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:38.719 nasty record. I think it's actually their funniest record. 0:52:38.800 --> 0:52:40.520 Like it's yeah, I didn't think that is dark. 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:45.160 It's the funniest ship. It's humor, it's biting sarcasm. Yeah, 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:47.920 and you guys really did a I mean, the marketing 0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:50.000 for it was awesome, Like they got on the cover 0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:56.120 of Rolling Stone, which was truly unheard of back then, 0:52:56.400 --> 0:52:59.000 and especially you know once the source came into play, 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:02.120 and that was something in credible them getting five mics there. 0:53:02.800 --> 0:53:05.640 You know, just just in general, like what what were 0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:07.759 the execs at Tommy Boy? 0:53:07.800 --> 0:53:11.120 Thinking, well, were there execs at Tommy Boy? Was just 0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:13.040 you and Tom? 0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:16.560 Well, I mean exacts. I mean we weren't exactly the 0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:19.000 most you know, It's like we didn't have c sweeps 0:53:19.080 --> 0:53:22.400 or anything like that. Like I said, my office was 0:53:22.600 --> 0:53:26.080 like a very sort of claustrophobic type of place. The 0:53:26.560 --> 0:53:28.720 so I wouldn't say like, oh my god, the ripple 0:53:28.719 --> 0:53:31.640 effects through the executive ranks of Tommy Boy. It wasn't 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:37.319 quite like that. I mean, listen, the group was reacting, 0:53:38.360 --> 0:53:42.960 you know to the you know, pushing back and reacting 0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:47.799 to the Daisy Age imagery that I think at that 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:50.719 point they sort of feel had been thrust upon them 0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:53.359 and they were trying to shake it off. And uh 0:53:53.400 --> 0:53:56.160 and and and they did. Frankly, you know, I mean, 0:53:56.239 --> 0:54:00.800 look at the cover is so but it's an incredible albums, 0:54:00.960 --> 0:54:06.000 So you know, I don't I don't remember get having 0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:12.319 any particular you know, Zura's about the whole thing. Uh 0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:15.439 Dyala Sula is dead. In fact, I thought it was like, oh, 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:18.680 this is great. You know, this is gonna be keep 0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:22.239 a story going, and and it's a great album. If 0:54:22.239 --> 0:54:24.439 it was if the album sucked, who would fucking care. 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:25.520 But it was incredible. 0:54:25.640 --> 0:54:30.440 So did you guys worried at all about them putting 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:34.880 Renee King's number on the uh Ring Ring Ring Haha? 0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:40.920 He I would call her often pick up at at 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.080 the top of Ring Ring Ring. I guess a woman 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:47.120 for our listeners out there, there's a woman that pass 0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:51.319 uh met at the New Music Seminar named Renee King, 0:54:52.080 --> 0:54:54.960 and uh she just called and called and called and 0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:57.880 called and called and called and called, left messages after messages, 0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:01.840 and they decided to leave one of her messages on 0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:03.120 Passa's answer machine. 0:55:03.640 --> 0:55:06.200 Two one five two to two four two nine. 0:55:06.320 --> 0:55:09.520 You know that number I'm calling in reference to the music, 0:55:10.000 --> 0:55:12.239 remember who you're talking about? Of course he does. He 0:55:12.360 --> 0:55:12.879 called it too. 0:55:13.480 --> 0:55:15.680 I did not call it. Hell man, my mom would 0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:16.200 have been last. 0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:17.440 I called it longest. 0:55:19.560 --> 0:55:24.440 Bad bad day sold Did I call that number often? 0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:26.479 And spoke to Renee King like she kept that number 0:55:26.560 --> 0:55:28.960 till like. I mean the last I call it was 0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:35.279 like ninety four, but you were a want. 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:35.680 Do you want to people to go? It was like, hello, 0:55:35.760 --> 0:55:36.960 is this Renee King? Yes? 0:55:37.080 --> 0:55:37.480 This is me? 0:55:37.960 --> 0:55:41.080 Oh wow, it is the like, well, let me. 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:43.359 Put you this way. I don't think that that would 0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:47.520 have flown today at all. It would be like doxing 0:55:47.680 --> 0:55:52.680 someone but an album, you know, stocking or harassment to 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:56.400 put somebody's phone number, and I don't even you know. 0:55:56.800 --> 0:56:00.400 That's a good point though, because legally, I'm I'm wondering 0:56:00.480 --> 0:56:02.600 if there was a line that was crossed putting her 0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:03.200 phone number. 0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:05.920 I mean, obviously she had to get permission. I mean, 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:06.640 she never. 0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:10.440 Retaliated obviously, though I'm not so sure it was obvious. 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:12.600 She welcomed it. 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:21.360 I always wanted to know, why didn't you guys release 0:56:21.400 --> 0:56:25.200 a video? Well, I think I'm answering my question right 0:56:25.239 --> 0:56:27.600 now as I say it. For Millie pulled the pistol 0:56:27.640 --> 0:56:32.759 on Santa, very weird choice for a third single. Why 0:56:32.920 --> 0:56:34.680 didn't that come with the video? Because I mean, the 0:56:34.800 --> 0:56:39.080 song was clearly like levels of storytelling, like on Slick 0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:42.959 Rick's level, but instead you guys focused on the B side, 0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:46.880 which was keeping the faith. But I mean, at the 0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:49.760 time and you heard it, like, did you guys truly 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:51.280 feel like that could have been a single? 0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:59.600 I don't recall your honor, okay years ago, no, I 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:02.080 I I seriously, I don't recall, but I can tell 0:57:02.120 --> 0:57:04.120 you it sounds like the type of thing where I 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:08.080 would have said, I don't know, maybe you know, are 0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:10.680 we going to get you know, well, yo, MTV raps 0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:13.759 play this. I don't know, Well this clear you know 0:57:15.280 --> 0:57:18.840 standards practices, although I'm sure there would have been a 0:57:19.000 --> 0:57:22.360 very artistic, interesting way to approach the whole thing. But 0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:23.919 I don't even recall all those. 0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:24.959 Songs about what it's about. 0:57:25.080 --> 0:57:27.720 So how do you write one thing. I don't know 0:57:29.160 --> 0:57:30.560 when did you leave, Tommy Boy. 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:35.200 I left in February of nineteen ninety eight, so. 0:57:35.280 --> 0:57:37.440 You were there for like stakes as high and I 0:57:37.560 --> 0:57:40.240 never knew like when your era ended, and like what 0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:41.560 albums you weren't there for. 0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:46.320 The last album that I gave a green light too 0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:51.760 was Everlast, everlast solo album. 0:57:51.640 --> 0:57:56.240 That Dante Okay Okay produced, and that was. 0:57:56.920 --> 0:57:59.280 The last one that I said, yep we had and 0:57:59.400 --> 0:58:02.440 it didn't didn't happen very easily either, But that was 0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:04.160 the last What. 0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:06.680 Was how did you have to sell it? What made 0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:07.240 it difficult? 0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:11.480 Well, no, it was because there was internal drama that 0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:16.080 was happening at the label that involved business affairs director 0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:19.600 kind of having a dick war with Everlast attorney, and 0:58:19.680 --> 0:58:23.360 it almost didn't happen, but thank god it did because 0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:25.600 that was a huge you know that might have I mean, 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:27.440 that album I think did three millions, So. 0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:30.840 Yeah, put your jersey in the rest. 0:58:31.560 --> 0:58:34.040 But I left February February ninety eight. 0:58:35.000 --> 0:58:38.320 But just in general, with each Daylight record coming out 0:58:38.560 --> 0:58:45.560 and getting more darker and kind of taking subtle or 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:51.560 not so settled jabs at the industry, I mean, that's 0:58:51.680 --> 0:58:53.800 that's the one thing if I could change anything about 0:58:53.880 --> 0:58:58.800 Daylight I remember my an R Wendy Goldstein telling me, like, Yo, 0:58:59.040 --> 0:59:02.280 no matter what y'all do, never do a song about 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:05.280 how fucked up your label is because nobody cares. Like, 0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:09.360 nobody cares about the label fucking you over, like anything 0:59:09.560 --> 0:59:12.280 but the label fucking you over? Like, did you guys 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:16.960 feel a certain way about the subtle jabs that are 0:59:17.160 --> 0:59:20.920 artistic expression? Because even with Balloon Mind State, which seems 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:23.680 to be everyone's general favorite Daylight record, at least when 0:59:23.680 --> 0:59:26.360 you ask the average person, you know, when they're talking 0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:29.400 about like uh, Patty Duke and all that stuff, Like 0:59:29.560 --> 0:59:33.440 a lot of these songs are specifically aimed at how 0:59:33.480 --> 0:59:35.760 we're not stars anymore and we didn't make it and 0:59:36.000 --> 0:59:39.160 we used to be the shit now like in focuses 0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:42.840 that way and whatnot. Like, did you guys just let 0:59:42.920 --> 0:59:45.280 them go off from their own creativity or was someone 0:59:45.320 --> 0:59:47.720 there to just be like, hey, guys, like, no one's 0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:50.720 going to relate to the fact that you know you're 0:59:50.760 --> 0:59:52.120 not getting properly promoted. 0:59:53.760 --> 0:59:56.040 Well, okay, I mean, first of all, I don't think 0:59:56.120 --> 0:59:58.920 there's any label person in the world who's gonna sit 0:59:59.000 --> 1:00:01.240 back and say, man, it was great when that dig 1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:06.760 really came at me. Of course, it's like, you know, 1:00:07.800 --> 1:00:10.880 it's uncomfortable. It can be a little mortifying. It's like, 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:14.120 oh shit, you know. And yes, I mean I saw 1:00:14.200 --> 1:00:19.160 the references to Duck season on the which is actually, 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:22.160 you know, it's that's cool too. I mean, I actually 1:00:22.200 --> 1:00:26.440 have a really good relationship with Rizza. But the thing 1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:30.280 is is that the I think even worse. The worst 1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:34.080 thing you can do is interfere. And I don't there 1:00:34.200 --> 1:00:37.240 wasn't anyone telling them you can't say this or don't 1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:40.080 say that, you know. I think if they needed to 1:00:40.160 --> 1:00:42.200 work that out, however, they wanted to work it out 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:46.120 and say it publicly. It's fine. And and you know 1:00:46.320 --> 1:00:50.480 sometimes people, you know, there are people say, well, you're airing, 1:00:51.120 --> 1:00:53.760 you know, you're you're dirty launder. No one really cares 1:00:53.880 --> 1:00:57.360 about this sort of drama that's going on over here. 1:00:57.640 --> 1:01:01.760 It's sort of industry, uh, about what's happening in the industry. 1:01:01.840 --> 1:01:04.800 But no, there was no I don't recall there ever 1:01:04.920 --> 1:01:10.520 being anyone's trying to issue a corrective about what they 1:01:11.160 --> 1:01:14.880 could or should say or how they were saying it. So, 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:18.320 and and in fact, even if you wanted to, would 1:01:18.320 --> 1:01:22.200 probably be feutile and just you know, make you as 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:24.120 a you know, as a label or an a n 1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:26.920 R person. Look, you know, then you really setting yourself 1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:30.640 up for you know, for criticism. So now. 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:34.120 How do you how are you guys building your staff? 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:34.240 Like? 1:01:34.360 --> 1:01:37.960 How does Dante come to your attention? How does what 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:43.360 other notable Uh? Yeah characters are at Tommy Boy helping 1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:47.080 the machine run? Well, you know our beloved Dante Ross, yes, 1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:48.160 of course, and. 1:01:48.960 --> 1:01:52.520 There's I'm glad you brought that up because this came 1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:55.120 up in a conversation recently because a lot of times 1:01:55.240 --> 1:01:58.760 when people will do interviews and they they always want 1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:01.280 to talk about the artists. Of course that's natural. But 1:02:02.000 --> 1:02:04.240 you know, one of the things that I would say, 1:02:04.840 --> 1:02:07.120 all these years later is I'm them very proud of 1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:10.000 is all the people that I had a hand in 1:02:10.120 --> 1:02:13.200 hiring or that I did hire and who have gone 1:02:13.240 --> 1:02:20.360 on to really pretty amazing careers themselves. And Dante, of 1:02:20.440 --> 1:02:23.640 course is one of them. Dante Uh is a is 1:02:23.800 --> 1:02:26.440 quite a rock on tour in his own right. And 1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:33.120 I hired Dante uh very shortly after he left leor 1:02:33.240 --> 1:02:38.240 Cohen's employ I think it was rather unceremonious parting of 1:02:38.320 --> 1:02:38.680 the ways. 1:02:39.280 --> 1:02:43.040 So is that an awkward thing like if you're one, 1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:47.080 are you friends with other CEOs of other labels? And 1:02:48.440 --> 1:02:52.600 is there an unspoken rule about poaching you know, their 1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:54.560 particular employees to come and work for us? 1:02:54.640 --> 1:02:57.640 And it carried on the stick thing like only. 1:02:57.600 --> 1:03:00.640 Only if only if there's what they I guess would 1:03:00.640 --> 1:03:07.959 be called tor's interference with a contractual uh situation, tortia's interference. 1:03:08.040 --> 1:03:10.480 I'm no lawyer, but the but but but basically, if 1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:13.880 someone's under contract and you interfere and try and hire 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:17.480 them or sign them and they're under already under contract 1:03:17.880 --> 1:03:23.080 with with the label, you are risking you know, legal action. Yeah. So, 1:03:23.480 --> 1:03:26.240 but but let me tell you le Or did not 1:03:26.320 --> 1:03:30.640 have Dante under contract, and uh and those two, you know, 1:03:31.160 --> 1:03:34.280 I think we're happy to be out of each other's way. 1:03:34.840 --> 1:03:38.880 So so I hired Dante, and you know, it's his 1:03:38.960 --> 1:03:43.000 first day in our job, and you know we uh 1:03:43.400 --> 1:03:46.840 de La Soul was already on the label, and that 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:50.440 was the first project that I gave him to oversee, 1:03:50.680 --> 1:03:55.360 was the album. So uh so he's obviously gone on 1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:58.520 to great renown and great success. But there's a lot, 1:03:58.600 --> 1:03:58.880 but there. 1:03:58.840 --> 1:04:01.920 Are others, you know, please tell Yeah, well, you know, 1:04:02.040 --> 1:04:02.560 one guy that. 1:04:02.640 --> 1:04:06.439 Comes to mind is a guy named Rod Houston who's 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:07.400 from Philadelphia. 1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:10.120 Yeah. 1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:14.160 And Rod started actually as Tom's assistant. And one of 1:04:14.200 --> 1:04:17.120 the great things about when the label was really small 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:21.560 is that it's not like we had all these different departments, 1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:24.640 you know, like if people started somewhere, they could very 1:04:24.720 --> 1:04:27.560 easily sort of shift into like, oh, guess what we 1:04:27.680 --> 1:04:30.320 need videos? Wait, we don't have someone to do videos. Rod, 1:04:30.360 --> 1:04:33.320 You're going to oversee videos now. And that's in fact 1:04:33.520 --> 1:04:36.280 kind of how it happened. Rod was Tom's assistant, but 1:04:36.440 --> 1:04:40.240 Rod was also in charge of calling the hip hop 1:04:40.320 --> 1:04:44.560 mixed shows. And then he Oh my. 1:04:44.640 --> 1:04:46.480 God, I just looked at h I'm so sorry. I 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:48.280 realized the reason I know him is not because of 1:04:48.360 --> 1:04:51.600 this career, but it's because of his second career, right Houston? 1:04:51.840 --> 1:04:57.720 Yes, yes, so then he and then he was you know, 1:04:57.960 --> 1:05:01.600 pretty handy with you know, technical and video stuff. So 1:05:01.760 --> 1:05:04.320 he all of a sudden, Rod's like in charge of 1:05:04.680 --> 1:05:08.840 overseeing videos for Tommy Boy, and he's a really incredibly 1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:13.120 great smart I but what you know, Rod uh from 1:05:13.200 --> 1:05:17.000 time to time, he started doing voiceover work and he 1:05:17.080 --> 1:05:19.520 would uh say, hey, Mo, do you mind if I 1:05:20.560 --> 1:05:22.640 can leave you over to Ariston wants to know if 1:05:22.680 --> 1:05:27.360 I can go, you know, do a radio spot for them, 1:05:27.400 --> 1:05:30.480 and yeah, sure, blah blah blah. Well what was starting, 1:05:31.080 --> 1:05:35.560 you know, pretty modestly back then exploded into this wildly 1:05:35.800 --> 1:05:40.600 successful career. Is one of the most you know, he's died. 1:05:44.160 --> 1:05:48.640 I cannot turn on the TV or the radio or 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:53.240 anything without hearing Rod Houston's voice. He's that successful in 1:05:53.400 --> 1:05:54.680 the voice field. 1:05:56.440 --> 1:05:56.800 Office. 1:05:59.440 --> 1:06:03.200 He always had a reverb machine with himself. Now he 1:06:03.280 --> 1:06:06.000 always had that voice, you know, which made him great 1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:09.600 on the phone. You know, having a good own voice 1:06:09.800 --> 1:06:12.120 is important if you're going to be doing radio promotion, 1:06:12.920 --> 1:06:18.640 you know, or retail promotion, with any sort of promotion. Really, so, uh, 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:25.560 he's one guy Chris Atlas started, Yeah, wow, I love. 1:06:25.480 --> 1:06:28.240 The old neighs in those mixes out those mixed CDs. 1:06:29.080 --> 1:06:33.320 But his first job was I'm almost certain it was 1:06:33.320 --> 1:06:35.520 his first job in the industry was a Tommy boy 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:40.760 doing like street promotions and marketing fat man Scoop. 1:06:41.160 --> 1:06:44.840 What in your job there? 1:06:46.040 --> 1:06:49.760 He was doing? Scoop had been working Actually, I think 1:06:49.840 --> 1:06:54.640 at Harlem Hospital. And it was through Alb Ragusa that 1:06:56.080 --> 1:06:58.040 I met Scoop, and Alb said, oh, this guy is 1:06:58.120 --> 1:07:01.160 going to be good, and so Scoops started doing He 1:07:01.320 --> 1:07:05.920 was also doing mixed show promotion, you know. And but 1:07:06.080 --> 1:07:09.520 then you know, Scoop was always such a character, and 1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:13.200 I started putting him in the some of the ads 1:07:13.640 --> 1:07:15.840 on the back cover of the Source magazine. 1:07:17.000 --> 1:07:17.160 You know. 1:07:17.320 --> 1:07:19.880 He soon went on to his own brand of stardom 1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:24.000 as or like the ultimate hype man, doing those hype records. 1:07:24.960 --> 1:07:25.959 Uh your riding? 1:07:26.920 --> 1:07:31.840 Were you the marketing person at Tommy Boy? I was 1:07:32.880 --> 1:07:35.320 my uh well like those jackets and everything. 1:07:36.120 --> 1:07:39.160 Yeah, As the president of Tommy Boy, I was overseeing 1:07:39.360 --> 1:07:42.760 all the creative of Tommy Boy. So that was A 1:07:42.960 --> 1:07:48.920 and R, the imaging, advertising, marketing, promotion, you know, and 1:07:49.040 --> 1:07:53.240 when we got into doing and all the different taschkas 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:56.240 and merchandising materials that we made, like we had all 1:07:56.280 --> 1:08:01.960 the lanyards. Yeah, we did all these. Albi Ragusa, who 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:06.000 was another person who started out doing rap promotions and 1:08:06.840 --> 1:08:12.080 segued into doing A and R, was a really had 1:08:12.200 --> 1:08:16.400 really great style. He was very connected with sort of 1:08:16.400 --> 1:08:25.960 the emerging downtown hip hop Skateboard UK, New York, access 1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:29.760 of style. He knew the people at Union, he knew 1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:34.240 James Leavell, he knew Sean Sae, he knew all these 1:08:34.360 --> 1:08:38.800 cats when they were just coming up. And so I 1:08:38.920 --> 1:08:43.240 always looked to alb as you know, as a great 1:08:43.320 --> 1:08:47.280 sort of style and fashion eye. And he was very 1:08:47.479 --> 1:08:51.680 involved when we did a line of clothing. And it 1:08:51.920 --> 1:08:54.040 was you know, when we did the car Heart Jacket, 1:08:54.160 --> 1:08:59.639 which became a very iconic piece. It was Albi's connection 1:08:59.800 --> 1:09:04.840 to Sean Stussy that resulted in that fantastic logo on 1:09:05.000 --> 1:09:08.800 the front, uh front breast right, breast pocket. I think 1:09:09.000 --> 1:09:10.240 I forget which pocket. 1:09:10.000 --> 1:09:12.960 But you know it was those were official Tommy boy. 1:09:12.960 --> 1:09:15.000 I always thought those were like bootlegs. So that was 1:09:15.040 --> 1:09:16.040 commissioned through you guys. 1:09:16.520 --> 1:09:19.800 Oh, absolutely no, No, we produced those things, and uh, 1:09:20.439 --> 1:09:22.840 you know, the car Heart Jacket became sort of got 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:27.599 its status, uh because we you know, the thing back 1:09:27.680 --> 1:09:31.599 then was to really you know, we had a sort 1:09:31.640 --> 1:09:34.840 of a list of people that we would see lace 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:40.639 when lacing was a thing, you know, taste makers, artists 1:09:40.880 --> 1:09:43.680 and things like that. So I think it was that 1:09:43.920 --> 1:09:46.360 Car Heart jacket in particular was like one of those 1:09:46.400 --> 1:09:50.519 things that people like, oh shit, you know, either I 1:09:50.720 --> 1:09:54.240 have it or I wish I had it, and uh 1:09:54.760 --> 1:09:57.000 you know so uh And it was sort of the 1:09:57.040 --> 1:10:01.000 beginning of when labels started to branch out into doing 1:10:02.680 --> 1:10:04.479 you know, clothing and things like that. 1:10:04.800 --> 1:10:07.360 Three thousand to five thousand dollars on auction. I'm just 1:10:07.479 --> 1:10:08.200 saying last time. 1:10:08.400 --> 1:10:09.479 Yeah it was one available. 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:13.000 Yeah, that was my it was my jacket. 1:10:14.560 --> 1:10:17.519 There's a hip hop hip hop shop and Philly caught 1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:20.920 the layup that my current Uh oh god. 1:10:21.200 --> 1:10:23.200 I've been with Keith almost thirty years now. 1:10:23.920 --> 1:10:27.240 My production manager used to run it and he had 1:10:27.360 --> 1:10:31.760 a Tommy Boy jacket and I remember like saving up 1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:34.360 for three weeks to buy that thing because I wanted 1:10:34.400 --> 1:10:37.439 to lead people under the impression that Tarika and I 1:10:37.640 --> 1:10:40.000 had signed to tom Records. 1:10:41.439 --> 1:10:44.120 Everywhere everywhere. 1:10:45.200 --> 1:10:48.000 Thank you for sharing that. Well. 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:51.559 Speaking speaking of your staff, there's one thing I didn't ask. 1:10:51.880 --> 1:10:55.000 Were there any close but no cigar movements in terms 1:10:55.080 --> 1:11:00.000 of almost having an artist that you could have sign 1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:02.559 but lost like at the last eleventh hour. 1:11:03.560 --> 1:11:07.439 Oh wow, Well listen, I'll tell you that there are 1:11:07.560 --> 1:11:10.519 always quite you know a question. I always go, well, 1:11:10.560 --> 1:11:13.679 how come you all didn't sign Tupac. That's a big one. 1:11:13.760 --> 1:11:18.360 Because Digital Underground I forgot oh. 1:11:18.360 --> 1:11:20.400 Yeah, oh why. 1:11:21.920 --> 1:11:27.439 Yeah. You know Digital Underground of course was had done 1:11:27.760 --> 1:11:30.400 very well on Tommy when I was close with Shock 1:11:30.920 --> 1:11:36.200 uh and and also with their manager Atron Adrian Gregory, 1:11:36.720 --> 1:11:39.920 and I knew Tupac from you know, when he started, 1:11:40.040 --> 1:11:44.040 when he was a dancer with Digital and he you know, 1:11:44.120 --> 1:11:49.040 he's a very charismatic. Uh, he's kind of flirty, very 1:11:49.400 --> 1:11:52.160 very much more so of like you know, clown dropping 1:11:52.240 --> 1:11:56.200 Trough on stage. You know, it wasn't necessarily the Tupac 1:11:56.360 --> 1:11:59.760 that people came to know, you know, just a few 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:06.280 later Bishop, yes, well that that role Bishop and Juice. 1:12:06.600 --> 1:12:08.679 You know, I've always said that was the big turning 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:12.679 point for Tupac because when Tupac, when the first single 1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:18.320 came out trapped it was Interscope and uh that was 1:12:18.600 --> 1:12:22.719 not you know, that record took some time to break. 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:26.800 A guy named Steve Berman over at Interscope. You know 1:12:26.880 --> 1:12:28.519 this is they were trying to really make a big 1:12:28.600 --> 1:12:30.000 push into that marketplace. 1:12:30.200 --> 1:12:32.840 And the Steve Berman that's in dre d a video. 1:12:33.520 --> 1:12:38.479 Yeah, is that actual Steve Berman the video problem or 1:12:38.560 --> 1:12:40.120 is that a guy portraying Steve Berman. 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:44.559 Well, Steve Berman has a very specific look uh to him. 1:12:44.600 --> 1:12:45.679 I haven't seen the video. 1:12:46.040 --> 1:12:48.320 I think in Drey Day when like the guy's like 1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:51.200 talking to Easy, the Easy character that what's his name? 1:12:51.320 --> 1:12:51.679 Comedia? 1:12:52.880 --> 1:12:56.160 He just passed away? He just passed away? Right, Yeah, yeah, 1:12:56.160 --> 1:12:58.880 I think that Steve Berman in that video and he 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:00.720 I know he's in an in. 1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:04.400 An eminem record that as is Steve Burman's name, and 1:13:04.680 --> 1:13:10.000 ye he's always Violet Browns on that track. But the 1:13:10.120 --> 1:13:13.040 thing is is that the role of Bishop I think 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:16.800 was you know, listen, uh pop was you know, he 1:13:17.040 --> 1:13:19.720 was really best friends with Tretch. Him and Trench were 1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:23.600 five running buddies. Uh here in New York. Uh. The 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:27.320 guy Neil Meritz I think was the name of the 1:13:27.400 --> 1:13:31.519 producer of that film. I remember, you know he you 1:13:31.600 --> 1:13:33.559 know told me one but oh, you know, I think 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:38.080 you know, Tupac. This was a huge turning point for 1:13:38.200 --> 1:13:42.400 Tupac when he had that persona of that dark, brooding, 1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:47.200 you know, character that was very different really from what 1:13:47.520 --> 1:13:50.960 people had seen of him. I think it was something 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:56.160 that brought out you know that already it extended into 1:13:56.680 --> 1:13:59.639 you know, his his career as a as a as 1:13:59.800 --> 1:14:03.400 a as a rapper. So but but he was, but 1:14:03.520 --> 1:14:05.800 he was always I think he always was, you know, 1:14:05.920 --> 1:14:10.720 that complex guy. He just what But you didn't see 1:14:10.800 --> 1:14:14.320 that necessarily in his role with Digital Underground. But the 1:14:14.400 --> 1:14:18.160 long story short is that, well actually it's a short story. 1:14:18.280 --> 1:14:23.400 Long is that the Atrin had given me, uh the 1:14:24.120 --> 1:14:29.040 demo tape for Trapped, and we passed on it. I 1:14:29.200 --> 1:14:32.599 still I held on to the cassette and it's now 1:14:32.720 --> 1:14:35.760 in the TUPAC exhibition at Los Angeles. If you want 1:14:35.800 --> 1:14:36.639 to go check it out. 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:40.960 I'm actually going to see that tomorrow. Well maybe you know, 1:14:41.040 --> 1:14:41.280 but you. 1:14:41.320 --> 1:14:45.000 Said earlier, I mean you said earlier. Things happened for 1:14:45.080 --> 1:14:49.439 a reason. And there's there's artists that just because you know, 1:14:49.760 --> 1:14:52.920 I think that Steve Berman and Interscope had the time 1:14:53.040 --> 1:14:56.080 and the muscle and the desire to really break TUPAC 1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:59.080 and it was the right fit and it was and 1:14:59.240 --> 1:15:04.639 it worked. There are artists that, for one reason or another, 1:15:05.400 --> 1:15:07.000 you know, it just didn't come to pass. 1:15:08.680 --> 1:15:09.600 You know, I have all the. 1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:13.560 A lot of the demo tapes. 1:15:13.439 --> 1:15:19.000 Of Riza was Yeah, like Rizza. His first is Prince 1:15:19.080 --> 1:15:20.559 Rakkim deal, how did Yeah? 1:15:20.880 --> 1:15:22.600 And it was sort of again it was serving that 1:15:22.840 --> 1:15:28.360 interstitial period when he was metamorphosizing from Prince Raccom into Riza. 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:30.560 Did you like the way that was portrayed on the 1:15:31.200 --> 1:15:32.080 the Wu Tang saga? 1:15:32.680 --> 1:15:33.400 You know, people have. 1:15:33.840 --> 1:15:37.160 People who sat me, uh, I have texted me pictures 1:15:37.200 --> 1:15:39.120 of the lady who plays me, and I'm like, oh 1:15:39.200 --> 1:15:44.160 my god, that's hilarious. So yeah, it was. 1:15:49.600 --> 1:15:51.960 This song was inescapable. I wasn't the biggest fan of it, 1:15:52.080 --> 1:15:55.880 but you know, we couldn't escape it. Gangs Is Paradise or. 1:15:56.040 --> 1:16:00.240 Just how you guys found Polio? Yeah, well he was 1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:01.800 part of the Was he part of the w C 1:16:01.920 --> 1:16:02.400 Matt Circle? 1:16:02.479 --> 1:16:06.240 Yeah he was. He was on w and again he 1:16:06.320 --> 1:16:06.840 was in the video. 1:16:08.040 --> 1:16:11.840 Coolio was fantastic. He was also you know, he had 1:16:11.880 --> 1:16:15.240 some troubles too, but he was pretty. He was great 1:16:15.280 --> 1:16:17.560 to work with, and he was a character and and 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:23.679 those were great records. You know, Gangster's Paradise was also 1:16:24.920 --> 1:16:28.720 a track that benefited from a significant film placement. And 1:16:28.920 --> 1:16:31.720 and you know, it kind of surprised me that there 1:16:31.760 --> 1:16:34.960 hadn't really been a record up until that point that 1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:40.880 had used pastime Paradise as effectively as that. Did you know, 1:16:41.400 --> 1:16:43.400 this is one of those records, like today you could 1:16:43.760 --> 1:16:47.519 you still hear Gangster's Paradise all the time. Yesterday was 1:16:47.960 --> 1:16:52.160 you know, we had Saint Patrick's Day here recently, jump around. 1:16:52.640 --> 1:16:58.200 You know, that's an anthem. You know, there's certain opp 1:16:58.680 --> 1:17:02.719 is an anthem. We were Humpty Dance is an anthem. 1:17:03.080 --> 1:17:06.920 We were blessed to have lace first, you know, we 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:10.560 were blessed to have some records, me and myself and I. 1:17:10.920 --> 1:17:16.200 You know anthems, you know, and that is yeah something 1:17:16.280 --> 1:17:18.200 that Supermodel is an. 1:17:18.080 --> 1:17:20.639 Anthem, you know, you know, I was just thinking Ponte. 1:17:21.160 --> 1:17:25.760 It's almost like I think Coolio he's gangster adjacent, Like 1:17:25.880 --> 1:17:28.240 he's almost he feeled the lame that I think Ludicrous 1:17:28.760 --> 1:17:33.120 wound up doing in the arts, Like looks the role, 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:35.440 but it's kind of gangster. 1:17:35.160 --> 1:17:38.640 Adjacent, like big pop hits. Yeah yeah, I. 1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:41.960 Mean the same thing as Naughty, Like yeah, look the 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:46.280 role and somehow. I mean, but did you guys imagine 1:17:46.360 --> 1:17:49.559 that he would be as big as he was because 1:17:49.560 --> 1:17:53.320 you guys had like at least four to five major 1:17:53.400 --> 1:17:55.320 hits on him with Coolio? 1:17:55.840 --> 1:18:00.160 Yeah yeah, you know, man, you never know. You just 1:18:00.280 --> 1:18:04.240 never know, because I don't think we didn't hear Gangster's Paradise. 1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:07.240 It hadn't been recorded when we put out the first. 1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:11.160 Track, you know, so no, but even with like Fantastic 1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:15.200 Voyage and the other there's I remember he had, Yeah, 1:18:15.200 --> 1:18:17.480 a couple of joints, remember. 1:18:17.240 --> 1:18:23.880 Why, but there's two records that really. 1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:27.040 I mean the two but I want to say to 1:18:28.680 --> 1:18:32.640 five at least, yeah, y'all, So y'all also signed l V. 1:18:35.160 --> 1:18:40.479 YEP. I am LV yeah, but we didn't have any hits. 1:18:40.360 --> 1:18:41.360 With LV NO. 1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:44.240 I mean, he was a cool song, but. 1:18:46.880 --> 1:18:50.200 I didn't even get Latifa out. Got you when you like, 1:18:51.479 --> 1:18:54.840 how did she come to the label and how? Because 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:57.240 I know that had to be specific marketing on on 1:18:57.400 --> 1:18:59.360 your end at least, like what was your idea, like 1:18:59.479 --> 1:19:03.400 what did you see in her that you accentuated or. 1:19:05.240 --> 1:19:07.479 What was well. I've always said this that there was 1:19:07.680 --> 1:19:13.400 three people that I will always credit for Latifah coming 1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:17.479 through Tommy Boy, and that would have been Dante, Dante Ross, 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:22.680 forty five King and Fab five Freddy And they all 1:19:22.720 --> 1:19:26.320 played very critical roles in her early career as well, 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:30.639 but they were all they all kind of were talking 1:19:30.640 --> 1:19:34.200 to me about her and she came to the office 1:19:34.360 --> 1:19:37.080 the first time she came to the office, and Dana 1:19:37.240 --> 1:19:40.439 was very young. She's an older you know people forget, 1:19:40.600 --> 1:19:43.360 you know, like I mean, she was like eighteen, I think, 1:19:44.200 --> 1:19:47.720 you know. And she again this sort of around the 1:19:47.760 --> 1:19:51.280 way jersey girl. And she came to the office and 1:19:51.400 --> 1:19:55.879 she just had on like jeans and the sweatshirt, no makeup, 1:19:56.400 --> 1:19:59.599 she had her hair done, and you know when gals 1:19:59.600 --> 1:20:02.439 were wearing like there's a like curled on the top, 1:20:02.560 --> 1:20:05.040 is short on the sides type of look and everything. 1:20:05.720 --> 1:20:12.160 And she just was so unassuming and but clearly she 1:20:12.560 --> 1:20:21.000 was very intelligent. She was had a great bearing and presence, 1:20:21.600 --> 1:20:27.000 and and she had enormous charisma. She had this thing 1:20:27.680 --> 1:20:31.599 that it doesn't matter if she's got you know, full 1:20:31.640 --> 1:20:34.160 hair and makeup and a great outfit on or something. 1:20:34.479 --> 1:20:39.200 She just was like, had this really unbelievable presence for 1:20:39.280 --> 1:20:42.599 a young eighteen year old woman who hadn't really been 1:20:43.200 --> 1:20:46.000 you know, I hadn't been off the turnip truck yet. 1:20:46.120 --> 1:20:49.479 You know, she's she'd worked at Burger King and you know, 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:54.599 had had her own little group in high school. Uh uh, 1:20:55.040 --> 1:20:56.679 you know MC group in high school. 1:20:56.840 --> 1:20:58.640 And but she was just. 1:21:00.120 --> 1:21:04.920 Calm, cool, collected, and she's always had this quality that 1:21:06.479 --> 1:21:09.479 I think has served her incredibly well over many years. 1:21:09.880 --> 1:21:13.360 And she really could walk into any room, she could 1:21:13.400 --> 1:21:19.120 go on to any stage, she could basically, you know, 1:21:19.600 --> 1:21:24.320 mc any event, and she's got that gift. I saw 1:21:24.479 --> 1:21:27.160 her in the very early days at this place called 1:21:27.240 --> 1:21:32.280 Hotel Amazon doing one of her very early shows. And 1:21:33.800 --> 1:21:36.960 you know how I mean the Hotel Amazon was down 1:21:37.080 --> 1:21:40.640 in Lower East Side and one of these places that 1:21:40.760 --> 1:21:43.240 they guess they just were doing hip hop nights on 1:21:43.320 --> 1:21:46.839 the weekend, and it was kind of it was funky. 1:21:47.040 --> 1:21:50.679 It wasn't like some you know, playing at the Beacon 1:21:50.880 --> 1:21:52.720 or some other place where they're all set up for 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:55.439 sound and lights. This place was not that at all. 1:21:55.560 --> 1:21:58.439 It was the opposite. And the sound went out, and 1:21:58.520 --> 1:22:00.800 you know how like a lot of times, you know, 1:22:00.960 --> 1:22:03.360 if it's the guy, a lot of these guys, fuck 1:22:03.439 --> 1:22:07.360 the sound guy, you toss the mic on the floor 1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:12.320 and stomp off the stage, oh angry, she didn't even flinch. 1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:16.280 She just like kept rocking and even though the sound 1:22:16.439 --> 1:22:19.080 was off and the crowd just nobody missed a beat 1:22:19.280 --> 1:22:23.400 and they were just you know, and and that is her, 1:22:24.080 --> 1:22:27.840 That is her. She just doesn't get flustered that way. 1:22:28.439 --> 1:22:33.519 And she has. She's also she is so musical. I mean, 1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:37.559 she's a singer, you know, she she's incredible. It's an MC. 1:22:37.960 --> 1:22:40.840 You know, she's got this beautiful flow and presence on 1:22:40.920 --> 1:22:43.280 the mic. But she's a great singer. And her mother 1:22:44.680 --> 1:22:47.880 was her late mother's was a tremendous influence on her. 1:22:48.240 --> 1:22:52.800 And to this day we're very you know, I'm still 1:22:53.080 --> 1:22:56.360 close with Dana, and I had was able to work 1:22:56.400 --> 1:22:59.479 with her after I had left Tommy Boy and she 1:22:59.600 --> 1:23:03.640 had gone, you know, into her incredible career as an 1:23:03.720 --> 1:23:07.519 actress and doing all other sorts of things. But actually 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:12.599 A and R two albums of her her her jazz albums. 1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:17.280 She was incredible to work with. I loved working with 1:23:17.439 --> 1:23:23.360 Dana and and and forty five King. I think, you know, uh, 1:23:23.760 --> 1:23:27.519 he's another guy that I think probably doesn't necessarily get 1:23:27.560 --> 1:23:28.599 as much credit. 1:23:28.720 --> 1:23:33.840 And yeah, yeah, ast definitely he's one of my book 1:23:33.840 --> 1:23:34.320 of these people. 1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:36.760 Yeah, I mean, because it was that that whole little 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:41.320 basement crew and Mark's house that you know, the whole 1:23:41.400 --> 1:23:44.240 sort of flavor unit posse emerged out of that and 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:46.880 it was and Mark was the you know, it was 1:23:47.200 --> 1:23:48.960 that was the he was the center of all that 1:23:49.960 --> 1:23:52.040 if you watch the O M t V Raps interview 1:23:52.400 --> 1:23:56.400 where Freddie goes out to to the to their basement. 1:23:58.560 --> 1:24:02.600 Yes, I don't know, but I saw have on my 1:24:02.720 --> 1:24:03.839 VHS cassette. 1:24:04.680 --> 1:24:06.799 Yeah. And you know, she didn't start as Queen Latifa. 1:24:06.880 --> 1:24:10.320 She started as Latifa and then she became Queen Latifa. 1:24:10.640 --> 1:24:14.280 And that's a situation where you know, like you know, 1:24:14.600 --> 1:24:17.160 the press, you can really tell sometimes with the press 1:24:17.200 --> 1:24:21.760 immediately like it's like, oh yeah, I get that. I 1:24:21.880 --> 1:24:25.000 can really get my head around that. And that was Latifa, 1:24:25.600 --> 1:24:25.800 you know. 1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:28.439 Because there was a fable around that, Like I always 1:24:28.479 --> 1:24:30.640 heard that the queen came from her being involved, not 1:24:30.720 --> 1:24:33.519 being involved with her relationship with like five percenters or 1:24:33.560 --> 1:24:35.639 something like that, but that could have been urban legend. 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:38.720 I never heard her say that. I mean, I know 1:24:38.840 --> 1:24:41.880 that the word Latifa means delicate and sensitive. I'm not 1:24:42.040 --> 1:24:46.440 sure exactly when and who or if she just bestowed 1:24:46.479 --> 1:24:49.840 the queen crown upon herself, which I think is great, 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:52.080 but she's you know, one thing about her too, is 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:55.200 that you find that to this day, like women who 1:24:55.520 --> 1:24:59.320 are were young and in their teens when she was 1:24:59.400 --> 1:25:04.240 first coming up, we're hugely influenced by Latifa. You know, 1:25:04.640 --> 1:25:07.639 I always hear from women like saying, yeah, oh man, 1:25:07.680 --> 1:25:09.840 when I was in high school and ladies spurs came 1:25:09.920 --> 1:25:13.760 out or unity you know, or what you know, whatever 1:25:13.800 --> 1:25:16.280 it might have been. She had an enormous influence on 1:25:17.000 --> 1:25:20.240 a generation of women. And she's and there's also I 1:25:20.360 --> 1:25:23.479 say about Latifa because she's one of those people like 1:25:24.320 --> 1:25:28.000 you say, you know, I don't like rap, but I 1:25:28.160 --> 1:25:29.360 like that Queen Latifa. 1:25:29.920 --> 1:25:31.000 You know that's funny. 1:25:31.000 --> 1:25:34.120 You're right, you know, your great Ann Gert out in Idaho. 1:25:34.840 --> 1:25:36.000 I love Queen Latifa. 1:25:38.800 --> 1:25:42.240 So there's one more artist on your label that sort 1:25:42.240 --> 1:25:45.880 of reached icon status that was not the labeled ninety three? 1:25:45.920 --> 1:25:48.080 Can you talk about how RuPaul came to the label. 1:25:48.360 --> 1:25:52.719 Oh yes, please, yeah, thank you for asking about RuPaul. 1:25:53.400 --> 1:25:56.559 The dance music editor over at Billboard named Bill Coleman. 1:25:56.680 --> 1:25:59.760 Bill Coleman, Yes, and let's do that. 1:26:00.560 --> 1:26:04.200 Yeah, real, sweetheart. He's a great DJ, still doing this 1:26:04.360 --> 1:26:09.320 thing now. And he uh actually got in touch with me, 1:26:09.400 --> 1:26:12.280 he might. I think this is even maybe before email. 1:26:12.720 --> 1:26:15.400 You know, he called me and said, you know, hey, uh, 1:26:16.120 --> 1:26:19.680 these guys, uh Randy and Fenton have this artist named 1:26:19.760 --> 1:26:23.080 ru Paul and there's this trick. I thought maybe you'd 1:26:23.160 --> 1:26:25.400 want to hear it. I thought maybe you'd you'd be 1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:27.120 good for this, So I said, yeah, send it over, 1:26:27.760 --> 1:26:30.360 and and I heard, actually knew who ru Paul was 1:26:30.840 --> 1:26:36.639 because that whole sort of downtown weeknock lady bunny scene 1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:41.759 that was happening already the Downtown's are a drag scene, 1:26:42.160 --> 1:26:44.280 and so I knew who it was, and so we 1:26:44.400 --> 1:26:46.920 got the I got the tape. I listened to it. 1:26:47.040 --> 1:26:49.400 It's like again, it's one of those things where you 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:52.280 listen to and you say, oh, this is great, this 1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:55.240 is a great pop record, and. 1:26:57.280 --> 1:26:57.760 Oh it was. 1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:05.800 It was. It was supermodel the work exactly, and it 1:27:05.960 --> 1:27:08.400 was again it sort of fell into that category of 1:27:08.640 --> 1:27:10.720 it's either going to be a huge hit or a 1:27:10.880 --> 1:27:13.840 huge failure, and those I think are always the best 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:17.200 decisions to be confronted with, you know. 1:27:17.439 --> 1:27:20.799 And so there's a sound of See and See Music Factory, 1:27:20.800 --> 1:27:24.360 where like House was now entering the mainstream and wasn't 1:27:24.439 --> 1:27:26.800 underground anymore. But at the time, did you think that 1:27:26.960 --> 1:27:29.280 RuPaul was just going to be like a one off 1:27:29.560 --> 1:27:32.840 kind of like at least if I'm looking at K seven. 1:27:33.280 --> 1:27:34.960 I'm thinking, come baby, coming whatever. 1:27:35.000 --> 1:27:40.120 The song was like, Okay, but did you at all 1:27:40.400 --> 1:27:43.800 see the or think that RuPaul had the potential to. 1:27:43.880 --> 1:27:49.160 Be the icon that I think? 1:27:50.280 --> 1:27:52.679 Well, no, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said, 1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:56.160 oh yeah, I saw this, you know, you know, No, 1:27:56.640 --> 1:28:01.000 I mean I thought we got an early super Model 1:28:01.080 --> 1:28:03.000 is going to be a big hit, because that video 1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:09.160 that his managers directed and put together was astounding. 1:28:09.439 --> 1:28:10.760 It was that. 1:28:11.520 --> 1:28:15.120 And also the other thing that I was very involved 1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:20.559 with was placing that record in some key fashion Week shows, 1:28:22.520 --> 1:28:27.000 specifically TODDLD and Isaac Msrahi, because this is back when 1:28:27.120 --> 1:28:31.320 fashion Week was like a cool thing and you know, 1:28:31.439 --> 1:28:33.400 and all the shows that were going on and so 1:28:33.760 --> 1:28:37.160 supermodel and it was also really the era of supermodels, 1:28:37.640 --> 1:28:41.360 so Naomi and Linda and you know, Christy and all 1:28:41.400 --> 1:28:44.120 these people, you know, all that being name checked in 1:28:44.200 --> 1:28:47.040 the record and that scene being really hot and the 1:28:47.160 --> 1:28:49.719 drag scenes are coming up. But you had Rue Paul, 1:28:50.640 --> 1:28:57.400 who is like basketball tall and you know, just no 1:28:57.560 --> 1:29:00.360 one could walk past Ruge. Oh my god. You know, 1:29:00.479 --> 1:29:06.479 this towering goddess ru had had and had tremendous ambition. 1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:10.400 And you know, all of all the artists that I've 1:29:10.439 --> 1:29:12.960 ever worked with Rue, I think had to work the 1:29:13.160 --> 1:29:15.600 hardest because if you want to say, well we're going 1:29:15.680 --> 1:29:17.599 to do a day of in stores or oh we're 1:29:17.600 --> 1:29:19.920 going to have you do press or go to an event, 1:29:20.240 --> 1:29:23.320 well he has to spend hours getting ready. You tell 1:29:23.439 --> 1:29:27.720 that to any rapper was like, really, I think so, 1:29:28.240 --> 1:29:31.280 you know, so Rue had to really you know, it 1:29:31.360 --> 1:29:34.360 was a big undertaking to do all that stuff and 1:29:35.080 --> 1:29:40.920 and MTV uh really broke help break that record too, 1:29:40.960 --> 1:29:43.920 and is the top forty dance record. And we did 1:29:44.000 --> 1:29:47.040 get feedback from I should say it was no one 1:29:47.120 --> 1:29:49.120 really would say it to my face, but I knew 1:29:49.240 --> 1:29:54.280 that there was discgruntlement with a few artists about RU 1:29:54.400 --> 1:29:55.599 being on Tommy BOYD. 1:29:55.720 --> 1:29:57.880 There was oh yeah, I know the rappers wouldn't happen. 1:29:57.880 --> 1:29:58.920 It is what's going on here? 1:29:58.960 --> 1:29:59.400 What are we doing? 1:29:59.439 --> 1:30:02.000 But you don't the label me? 1:30:02.560 --> 1:30:08.640 Yeah? Yeah, not comfortable in certain cases, but yeah, So 1:30:09.160 --> 1:30:11.519 really broke a lot of barriers. And a lot of 1:30:11.560 --> 1:30:14.120 people did say, you know, I don't think any label 1:30:14.160 --> 1:30:16.280 but Tommy boy could have done that with Ru. Paul, 1:30:16.439 --> 1:30:19.280 So I thought that was always high praise. 1:30:21.000 --> 1:30:23.920 How do you generally feel about music now? 1:30:26.000 --> 1:30:28.320 Are you still is the seventeen year old inside you 1:30:28.520 --> 1:30:33.280 still excited about anything musical or is everything in your 1:30:33.400 --> 1:30:34.400 rear view mirror now? 1:30:35.040 --> 1:30:38.160 Oh man, this is I'm so happy you asked that question, 1:30:39.000 --> 1:30:42.240 because when I left Tommy Boy in ninety eight, I 1:30:42.280 --> 1:30:45.719 always sort of joked that I left the music industry 1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:50.800 to learn more about music. I left, I was at 1:30:50.840 --> 1:30:53.640 a very personally, I was at a low point and 1:30:53.880 --> 1:30:57.200 the industry was changing a lot. I was pretty bummed 1:30:57.240 --> 1:31:03.040 out and depressed, quite frankly. And I start working part 1:31:03.120 --> 1:31:06.240 time at a record store after I left Tommy Boy, 1:31:06.760 --> 1:31:11.840 a place called Footlights Down On. It was on Twelfth Street. 1:31:12.080 --> 1:31:15.519 It's a place that specialized in soundtracks and jazz and 1:31:15.720 --> 1:31:19.160 vocals and things like that. So I would be working 1:31:19.200 --> 1:31:23.000 there part time. And then I started I got on 1:31:23.160 --> 1:31:28.679 the staff at WFMU, which is a freeform radio station 1:31:28.880 --> 1:31:33.479 in Jersey City of some renown, and started doing a 1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:37.200 weekly show there. For over fifteen years, I'm still a 1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:40.080 staff member there and still do radio shows. And there's 1:31:40.160 --> 1:31:42.800 nothing I love more than listening to new music and 1:31:43.080 --> 1:31:46.240 old music. I listened to music all the time. I 1:31:46.600 --> 1:31:50.479 constantly have Spotify open and have a million playlists. You know, 1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:55.040 I've nicked quite a few things off of shows that 1:31:55.120 --> 1:31:59.320 you've done when you were doing those regular shows on Instagram. 1:31:59.439 --> 1:32:04.120 I loved the playlist that you did for Greg Taate. Yeah, 1:32:04.160 --> 1:32:04.920 it was really great. 1:32:05.400 --> 1:32:05.560 You know. 1:32:05.720 --> 1:32:08.360 So I'm into all sorts of music, all sorts of 1:32:08.479 --> 1:32:11.439 music from all different eras. I love it more than ever. 1:32:11.920 --> 1:32:17.840 And yeah, I love checking out new stuff. I love reissues, 1:32:18.280 --> 1:32:21.400 and you know, I love going down the rabbit holes. 1:32:21.520 --> 1:32:26.200 So yeah, totally. Yeah. Where do you find music? Where 1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:28.519 do you find music? I'm alway good question. I was 1:32:28.560 --> 1:32:33.160 always curious to find out what your means of discovery are. 1:32:33.800 --> 1:32:36.160 My favorite my favorite game is playing. 1:32:37.080 --> 1:32:40.200 You know, you play a song on your streaming weapon 1:32:40.280 --> 1:32:44.160 of choice, and you know you always look at the bottom, 1:32:44.920 --> 1:32:49.080 go down at the operations, right, and then look through 1:32:49.160 --> 1:32:51.160 that artist and then looking in their artists and looking 1:32:51.200 --> 1:32:55.080 their artists. And Okay, not only that, I would say that, 1:32:55.800 --> 1:32:58.080 you know, as a fan of these these current shows 1:32:58.120 --> 1:33:01.920 that are on HBO, you know your euphorias, your insecures 1:33:01.920 --> 1:33:02.400 and whatnot. 1:33:02.640 --> 1:33:06.360 Like those they go super deep and artists I might 1:33:06.439 --> 1:33:07.479 not have heard before. 1:33:08.400 --> 1:33:11.040 And then I'm fans of theirs or just in general, 1:33:11.840 --> 1:33:16.080 I'm not afraid or ashamed of Shazam anything. So I'll 1:33:16.120 --> 1:33:18.280 be in a supermarket, I'll be in a club and 1:33:18.560 --> 1:33:22.280 if I here something cool, I'm examining it. Ty I 1:33:22.400 --> 1:33:25.120 fold down, I fall down a rabbit hole, like I 1:33:25.200 --> 1:33:28.160 don't agree that. You know, most people say, like, well, 1:33:28.280 --> 1:33:30.080 music's dead now, it's just so much more of it. 1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:31.800 You just got to know where to look. I think 1:33:31.840 --> 1:33:35.000 what's dead is like the taste maker, like you know, 1:33:35.720 --> 1:33:38.519 to have this is kind of why I wish like 1:33:39.560 --> 1:33:41.800 I really had Okay player up and running in a 1:33:41.840 --> 1:33:45.160 way that was running back in ninety ninety thousand, where 1:33:46.000 --> 1:33:50.200 I could always guarantee twelve people would put me onto. 1:33:50.040 --> 1:33:51.519 Something that was true. 1:33:51.760 --> 1:33:56.680 But yeah, it's still there. But Monica, I thank you 1:33:56.840 --> 1:33:59.120 for doing this for us. You know, one of the 1:33:59.160 --> 1:34:02.000 perils of doing that afternoon is your lunch break is 1:34:02.000 --> 1:34:03.479 over and you got to go back to your day job. 1:34:06.680 --> 1:34:15.400 Thank you so much, Bonica for doing this, and Sugar 1:34:15.479 --> 1:34:18.800 Steven and Bill and Fante and Maya and we will 1:34:18.840 --> 1:34:19.920 see you next go around on court. 1:34:20.000 --> 1:34:23.760 Love Supreme. Thank you, m H. 1:34:25.600 --> 1:34:25.800 West. 1:34:25.840 --> 1:34:32.559 Love Supreme is a production of Iheartened Radio. For more 1:34:32.640 --> 1:34:36.640 podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart radio, app, Apple podcasts, 1:34:37.080 --> 1:34:38.759 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.