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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday.

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Speaker 1: We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do

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Speaker 1: we have, Crystal, indeed we do.

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Speaker 2: We continue to be on around or watch the latest

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Speaker 2: indications and comments from the president. We will detail everything

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Speaker 2: that we know at this point. We also have yesterday

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Speaker 2: evening a new Ice shooting in Minneapolis. Very different details

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Speaker 2: coming out, and we're going to have a civil rights

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Speaker 2: lawyer join us to talk about that and also take

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Speaker 2: us through the shooting of Renee Good, what the government

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Speaker 2: is doing and hrk ands learn about the violations of

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Speaker 2: civil liberties, not just of immigrants, but of the entire

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Speaker 2: American population. The FBI executed a search warrant on the

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Speaker 2: home of a Washington Post reporter, raising a lot of

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Speaker 2: First Amendment concerns. There we have a Ford worker who

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Speaker 2: got flipped off by the President of the United States

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Speaker 2: for calling him a quote pedophile protector. So that's an

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Speaker 2: interesting one. We're going to pick up that segment we

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Speaker 2: had to drop the other day about gambling the way

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Speaker 2: it's taken over everything, including now the Golden Globes, and

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Speaker 2: Pablotoria is going to join us to talk about a

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Speaker 2: new sports reporting debate that Sager has been paying particularly close.

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Speaker 1: To test right.

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Speaker 3: I had to sheehorn this one in there for NFL fans.

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Speaker 3: You'll know about this NFL reporter scandal where a reporter

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Speaker 3: praised a coach at a.

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Speaker 1: Press conference, kicking off a whole lot of discourse.

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Speaker 3: So I thought, Pablo is a real investigative journalist, could

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Speaker 3: weigh in and enlighten us, perhaps, you know, get to

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Speaker 3: some of the This is the journalism scandal, which it

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Speaker 3: should be the Washington Post, one that hits every American household,

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Speaker 3: but probably the most likely one that everybody actually yeah.

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Speaker 1: Has heard.

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Speaker 4: We also just love to have an excuse to Pablo

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Speaker 4: on the ship.

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Speaker 3: Exactly right, guys, the goat guy is the goat. Thank

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Speaker 3: you everybody who has been subscribing to our YouTube channel.

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Speaker 3: you who watch our videos are not subscribed to the channel.

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Speaker 3: on the button. You can also join us as a

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Speaker 3: premium member Breakingpoints dot com. And if you're listening to

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Speaker 3: this on a podcast, please share this episode with a friend,

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Speaker 3: or any episode your personal favorite. The honest episode is

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Speaker 3: its own thing on our podcast platform. You can just

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Speaker 3: send it to a friend if you found that interesting.

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Speaker 3: Relatively evergreen and I think it really will help broaden

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Speaker 3: their horizons and perhaps your horizons. But let's go ahead

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Speaker 3: and start with Iran. Some significant developments currently happening. The

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Speaker 3: President at various times saying that we're locked and loaded.

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Speaker 3: We're going to go in redline if they hang anybody.

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Speaker 3: Now he's saying they may not be hanging anyone.

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Speaker 1: There was some.

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Speaker 3: Breaking news yesterday late in the Oval Office where the

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Speaker 3: President appeared to say that Iran had backed away from

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Speaker 3: any of its pledges to execute prisoners.

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Speaker 1: Here's what he had to say.

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Speaker 5: You have.

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Speaker 6: Been notified and pretty strongly. But we'll find out what

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Speaker 6: that all means. But we were told that the killing

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Speaker 6: interrant is stopping, and it's stopped and stopping, and there's

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Speaker 6: no plan for executions or an execution or executions. So

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Speaker 6: I've been told that a good authority. We'll find out

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Speaker 6: about it. I'm sure if happens, will all be very upset,

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Speaker 6: including you, will be very upset. But that's just gotten

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Speaker 6: to me, the information that the killing has stopped, that

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Speaker 6: the executions have stopped. They're not going to have an execution,

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Speaker 6: which a lot of people were talking about for the

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Speaker 6: last couple of days. Today was going to be the

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Speaker 6: day of execution over the last few days, and they

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Speaker 6: said people were shooting at them with guns and they

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Speaker 6: were shooting back, and you know, it's one of those things.

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Speaker 6: But they told me that there'll be no executions, and

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Speaker 6: so I hope that's true.

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Speaker 1: Military reaction is now off the table against Duran.

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Speaker 6: Now we're gonna watch and see what the process is.

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Speaker 6: But we were given a very good, very good statement

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Speaker 6: by people that are aware of what's going on minutes reactions.

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Speaker 6: When they say no executions, everyone is talking about a

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Speaker 6: lot of executions were taking place today. We were just

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Speaker 6: told no executions. I hope that's true.

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Speaker 3: Trump at this moment appearing to try and back himself

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Speaker 3: out of the so called redline or corner that he

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Speaker 3: painted himself into. In fact, this morning for truthing out

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Speaker 3: Fox News, Iranian protester would no longer be sent to

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Speaker 3: death after President Trump's warning. Likewise others, this is good news.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully it will continue. But I do, of course want

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Speaker 3: to flag that up until literally the day of midnight

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Speaker 3: hammer attacks in June, they did note that diplomacy was continuing,

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Speaker 3: and in fact we were scheduled to meet with the

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Speaker 3: Iranians the very day after the midnight hammer attack that

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Speaker 3: took place. And all of this could be a faint.

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Speaker 3: Let's put the next one please up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: Just to show everybody. The pieces are all still in place.

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Speaker 3: So there are headline Trump's as Iran is stopping as

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Speaker 3: killing as the US moves troops. Multiple personnel were evacuated

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Speaker 3: from the base in Doha, Qatar, which previously had been

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Speaker 3: attacked by Iran after the midnight Hammer attack Crystal. There's

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Speaker 3: also a new carrier that is on its way from

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Speaker 3: the South China Sea to the Middle East centcom region.

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Speaker 3: In fact, though that's one of the things which in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, probably had more to do with this than anything,

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Speaker 3: is that the entire US Navy armada is in the

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Speaker 3: Caribbean or Venezuela. There were only three guided missile destroyers

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Speaker 3: actually in the region. The amount of firepower that was

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Speaker 3: in the region for June is all now in Venezuela.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it drew away from that. In fact, I

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Speaker 3: think that this is a prime example of why being

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Speaker 3: the world's policeman is such a bad idea. Beyond just

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Speaker 3: that resources are finite. Now you have to take US

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Speaker 3: carrier group out of the South China Sea, where oh,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, fifty percent of the world's GDP is

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Speaker 3: and move it over to Iran, just potentially to make

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Speaker 3: sure that you know, again we're go and get to

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Speaker 3: this in a bit. There's all this propaganda about protests,

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Speaker 3: et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Who knows, we all know what they're sent.

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Speaker 2: Trump cares deeply about the safety and well being a protester.

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Speaker 3: That's why it's all just so preposterous, as if we

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Speaker 3: care so much about the you know, the fate of

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Speaker 3: these protesters like you and I individual on a moral level,

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Speaker 3: like oh, it's horrible, right, Like what we're you know,

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Speaker 3: going around and literally trying to enforce and bring down

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Speaker 3: the regime because it was killing protesters. I'm sure that we'll,

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Speaker 3: you know, of course, uphold the same standards. Wasn't there's

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Speaker 3: literally beheadings in Saudi Arabia or I mean, yeah.

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Speaker 2: As the world our sanctions are miserating the population, Like

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Speaker 2: if we care about the population so much, guess what

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Speaker 2: lift the sanctions that would make a profound difference in

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Speaker 2: their lives. Ryan tweeted this based on his reporting that

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Speaker 2: I wanted to put out there too. He said, inside

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Speaker 2: the White House there is effectively nobody arguing against strikes

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Speaker 2: on Iran, with Rubio arguing Trump has to do it

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Speaker 2: or he loses credibility. I'm told that means the only

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Speaker 2: opposition is coming from outsiders like Bannon and Tucker and

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Speaker 2: all who are opposed, like Saudi Qatar and other regional partners.

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Speaker 2: That's a heavy imbalance, suggesting strikes remain likely. So that

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Speaker 2: is kind of the you know, the internal state of play.

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Speaker 2: There was that report that we covered earlier in the

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Speaker 2: week that supposedly Jady Vance was arguing internally against iron strikes.

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Speaker 2: Ryan's reporting would seem to rebut that, and we were

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Speaker 2: a bit skeptical at the time, and Jade Vance came

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Speaker 2: out himself and said this is not true. Marco Rubio

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Speaker 2: and I are aligned and were presenting a range of options,

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Speaker 2: and you know, to the President, who ultimately gets too nice.

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Speaker 3: I tried to follow up on Ryan's report. It's difficult

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Speaker 3: to get a view inside of the White House. The

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Speaker 3: difficult I mean, this is what I was originally saying

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Speaker 3: at the time. Even if you were originally arguing against well,

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Speaker 3: if you do and then they leak about it, then

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Speaker 3: what is that going to make you look like, to

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Speaker 3: make you look like you're breaking with the president? I

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Speaker 3: have no idea, fully, haven't been able to get a

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Speaker 3: full picture, but the broad you know message if you

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Speaker 3: can't back away from your so called red line, which

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Speaker 3: is ridiculous because the red line it was completely it

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Speaker 3: wasn't nearly like.

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Speaker 1: The so called Syrian red line. And that's by the way,

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Speaker 1: as we all know.

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Speaker 3: Now you know, there's still a lot of questions around

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Speaker 3: that entire incident, but at the current moment with Iran,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, this is kind of where it all

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Speaker 3: looks like. The reason why they wanted to do it

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Speaker 3: is the theory was is that these protests actually were

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Speaker 3: a genuine, legitimate threat to bringing down the entire regime.

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Speaker 3: Over the last couple of days, that has now effectively

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Speaker 3: been quelled, at least that's from the open source reports

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Speaker 3: that have come out from Iran.

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Speaker 1: They've militarized the streets of Tehran.

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Speaker 3: There's the US military or the Iranian military force.

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Speaker 1: Everywhere, and they've made it known like we're going to

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Speaker 1: kill you. And a lot of people were killed.

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Speaker 3: We don't know the exact number, that's important to note,

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Speaker 3: but the prospect of them simply just being knocked over

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Speaker 3: by some easy strike no longer is has the calculus.

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Speaker 3: So at that point then the Iranians apparently have made

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Speaker 3: it known again this is all very fuzzy, that if

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Speaker 3: we do strike them, and it's an intent for a

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Speaker 3: genuine decapitation regime change strike, they will go all out.

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Speaker 1: They will actually do what they can do.

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Speaker 3: Now, you know, they don't have unlimited capacity, but as

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Speaker 3: we all learned during the Twelve Day War, which never

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Speaker 3: really ended as it is currently right now, we lost

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Speaker 3: twenty five percent of our that interceptors just protecting Israel,

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Speaker 3: just Israel, in twelve days, So a prolonged conflict with

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Speaker 3: no carrier, with a very finite number of resources. We

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Speaker 3: got all these weapons in Ukraine, we got popping off

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Speaker 3: down in Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: Who knows what's going on there.

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Speaker 3: Given that picture, and this is largely what's come out now,

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Speaker 3: given the fact that a single strike alone, which is

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Speaker 3: always a fantasy in my opinion, a single strike, we're

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Speaker 3: just going to topple the regime.

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Speaker 1: That's not how it works. Like, yeah, you could kill

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Speaker 1: the Ayatola.

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Speaker 3: There's still the IRGC, there's all these independent power centers.

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Speaker 3: They have a monopoly largely on the use of force,

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Speaker 3: I mean. And even if the regime did fall, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: democracy will remarkably flourish.

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Speaker 1: Look at what happened in Libya. What's the modal outcome.

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Speaker 3: It will become inn Israeli rump state where the Israelis

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Speaker 3: come in by their own admission, and Trump even admitted

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Speaker 3: this on the camera. Well, the Iranians told me they

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Speaker 3: were shooting back at them, and that's why they had

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Speaker 3: to kill them. And what did Ryan and Emily reveal yesterday?

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Speaker 3: The Mossad is openly bragging about how they armed many

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Speaker 3: of the protesters. Not to say all the protesters are Mosad,

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Speaker 3: but just to say that they are openly bragging about.

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Speaker 1: That as well.

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Speaker 3: So invested in the outcome, of course, and that's it

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Speaker 3: would be stupid to deny it, but I will. At

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Speaker 3: the current moment, it seems to me like Trump is

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Speaker 3: trying to either buy himself sometime. All of it could

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Speaker 3: change at any time. That's why nobody should take this

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Speaker 3: as Nobody should take this as gospel that it's over.

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Speaker 3: I really believe though, that once the assets are back

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Speaker 3: in place, it's going to be a live question. And

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Speaker 3: these neocons, I mean, just yesterday Lindsey Graham met with

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Speaker 3: you know, the Polovy failsun here in Washington, and they're

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Speaker 3: both have making round great again, hats on, like the

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Speaker 3: chatter is endless.

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Speaker 1: And I also think, and this.

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Speaker 3: Is really what I wanted to highlight, there's no organized

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Speaker 3: resistance to this. Open your Twitter feed, open the podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there is no organized Last time around, we had the

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Speaker 3: Ted Cruz interview.

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Speaker 1: There was a real debate, right at least I think so.

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk was alive, he was going after that, he

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Speaker 3: went to the White House reportedly begged Trump not to

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Speaker 3: do the Midnight Hammer. Strack yelled, yeah, reportedly, you know,

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Speaker 3: largely from what I've been told, it's all true. But

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Speaker 3: this time there's nothing. And this one makes way less

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Speaker 3: sense than that one did. There was a strategic rational, Oh,

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Speaker 3: we're gonna go in. We're gonna take out the round

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Speaker 3: the nuclear i mean facilities, and that'll be it, one

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Speaker 3: and done.

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Speaker 2: Every time, the propaganda gets more and more lazy. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I mean it really does. Like the I mean, the

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Speaker 2: propaganda initially for the Iran strikes was pretty his poor.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we saw right through it. But at least

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Speaker 2: there was like a thing there, you know, all the nukes.

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Speaker 2: We got to deal with that, okay, you know, and

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Speaker 2: there were people that were convinced by it, and there

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Speaker 2: was at least some debate to be had. Now it's

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Speaker 2: like over the protesters, like what are we doing. I mean, initially,

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Speaker 2: initially the idea was what Trump had said, is oh,

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Speaker 2: if they go back to trying to rebuild their nuclear program,

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Speaker 2: then what we give Israel the green light and you know,

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Speaker 2: we may leave the charge, right, Okay, I mean it's

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Speaker 2: still again I object to all of it on first principles,

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Speaker 2: but at least that's like theoretically a justification we care

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Speaker 2: about the protesters is just so ridiculous, especially given what

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Speaker 2: we see happening in Minneapolis. I mean, I just can't

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Speaker 2: believe literally anyone buys this and so to you know,

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Speaker 2: to Ryan's tweet, basically, the argument that's being made internally

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Speaker 2: to Trump is like, hey, your ego can't withstand you

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Speaker 2: not doing this now that you said that you were

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Speaker 2: going to, so you know, you're going to look weak.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that is very compelling to Trump.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't want to look weak. I mean that's basically

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Speaker 2: like his entire worldview is projecting strength and never looking

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Speaker 2: weak and never backing down. So on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: you could read the comments yesterday as his attempt to

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Speaker 2: get out of that box and say, look, I flex

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Speaker 2: my muscles and Iran back down and they're not going

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Speaker 2: to hang these protesters. So I won once again. So yeah, great,

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Speaker 2: take that victory and walk away. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: also entirely possible that, as Soccer was indicating, he's just distracting, deflecting,

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Speaker 2: and buying some time to move assets into the region

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Speaker 2: and prepare for a strike.

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Speaker 4: You know, on his terms.

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Speaker 2: We can put a four up on the screen which

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Speaker 2: has some CNN you know reporting that is in that direction.

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Speaker 2: Trump feels obligated to take action on Iran as administration

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Speaker 2: weighs risks of retaliation.

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Speaker 4: Mister President, you're not obligated to take action on Iran.

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Speaker 2: Please do not take please taco. We all support a

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Speaker 2: taco here. Okay, let me put a five up on

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Speaker 2: the screen from doctor Parci. And I thought this was

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Speaker 2: important too, just to get to again the like, what

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Speaker 2: are we even doing here? He says that, and you

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Speaker 2: know he has his own sources. By the way, inside

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Speaker 2: the administration much indicates now that a US Israeli war

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Speaker 2: with Iran is imminent.

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Speaker 4: I see three scenarios.

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Speaker 2: One a limited strike, excuse me, mainly symbolic so that

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Speaker 2: Trump can claim victory and then move to talks. Two

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Speaker 2: regimed capitation by attacking most but not all political and

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Speaker 2: IRGC leaders, but with the aim of having someone else

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Speaker 2: from within the system take over afterwards, in order to

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Speaker 2: avoid instability. Three a combination of two, but with massive

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Speaker 2: bombardment of Iran's military capabilities afterward to ensure that Iran

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Speaker 2: is set back decades and cannot pose any challenge to

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Speaker 2: Israel for the foreseeable future. Think Syria after Asad fell.

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Speaker 2: Of these three, I find option one, that would be

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Speaker 2: the limited strike, very unlikely. The argument against option two

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Speaker 2: is that the Israelis would not accept it, so two

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Speaker 2: would be the decapitation strike, but leave the rest of

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Speaker 2: the regime in place. Effectively, Netanyahu has been very, very

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Speaker 2: silent publicly, which he probably would not have been if

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Speaker 2: option two was the one favored by Trump. The argument

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Speaker 2: against option three is that it would likely require far

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Speaker 2: more US assets in the region. We do not see that,

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Speaker 2: at least not quite yet. Of course, plans really survive

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Speaker 2: contact with reality. Plenty of reasons why things won't play

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Speaker 2: on as the US and Israel may have intended, including

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Speaker 2: of course, how Aron responds and retaliate. So that is

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Speaker 2: how he is seeing the landscape and the possibilities at

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Speaker 2: this point. But you know, he seems pretty convinced that

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Speaker 2: there's likely to be some sort of some sort of

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Speaker 2: attack of one of those three flavors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all very possible.

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Speaker 3: My current hope is that they are realizing resources are finite.

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Speaker 3: And two, the regime is still in power, and not

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Speaker 3: only in power, but seems much better poised than it

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Speaker 3: was previously. Let's shift now to the whole propaganda battle

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Speaker 3: and how easy it is here in the United States

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Speaker 3: to just wish cast and believe so much of what

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Speaker 3: comes into our feeds and then just organically be like, Yep,

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Speaker 3: there's a true revolution that's happening right now. Let's go

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Speaker 3: to a six. Let's put it up here on the screen.

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Speaker 3: So this is a good example. This is from CBS

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Speaker 3: News currently run by Barry Weiss and Larry or Larry

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Speaker 3: Elison's son David. They say over twelve thousand feared dead

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Speaker 3: after Iran protests, as video shows bodies lined up at

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Speaker 3: the morgue. But here's the question, where is that number

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Speaker 3: coming from? Quote with phone lines opening back up, two sources,

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Speaker 3: including one inside Iran, so one not in Iran told

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Speaker 3: CBS News that at least twelve thousand and possibly as

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Speaker 3: many as twenty thousand had been killed.

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Speaker 1: That is an extraordinary number.

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Speaker 3: That would be one of the horrific masters of protesters

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Speaker 3: in the modern era. But again they do not have

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Speaker 3: any confirmation. They do not give you any description other

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Speaker 3: than activist groups working to compile a full death toll.

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Speaker 3: Based on reports from medical officials, believe the toll was

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Speaker 3: twelve and possibly as high as twenty. That is not

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Speaker 3: a responsible number to say feared dead? Which activist group?

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Speaker 3: What's their agenda? I mean, these are all legitimate questions,

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Speaker 3: ones that you have to often work through in a

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Speaker 3: war zone. The early days of October seventh, we would

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Speaker 3: say here Godza Health Ministry, and as the Israelis would

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Speaker 3: always say, run by Hamas.

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Speaker 1: However, we could look in the.

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Speaker 3: Past, in the past and say, well, they appear to

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Speaker 3: have had a track record, and so you should couch.

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Speaker 3: And you shouldn't understand that, right, there's no couch, there's

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Speaker 3: not even this time around. They don't even put a

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Speaker 3: name to the activist group. And if you read they

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Speaker 3: even admit that one of the sources is not inside

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Speaker 3: of Iran. You have no idea. And then also, what

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Speaker 3: did we learn during the whole ted Kruz thing? What

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Speaker 3: is the population of Iran? Right doesn't anyone remember? So

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Speaker 3: tens of millions? And then they're saying, oh, maybe one

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Speaker 3: million people took to the streets. I mean one million

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Speaker 3: people took to the streets here for the pussy hat

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Speaker 3: protest in twenty seventeen. Would that give China or Mexico

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Speaker 3: a right to intervene and say that crushing that would

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Speaker 3: be you know, or that that alone would be a

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Speaker 3: total view of the entire population of this gigantic Of

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Speaker 3: course it would be preposterous, right, and so just think

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Speaker 3: in terms of actions, Yes, it could be the largest

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Speaker 3: threat to the regime or protest movement that's happened.

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Speaker 1: We've had many.

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Speaker 3: Protests here with millions of people who have taken to

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Speaker 3: our streets throughout our just modern history of the last

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Speaker 3: sixty to seventy years. And even then you could say

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Speaker 3: that sometimes those are minority movements and there weren't even

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Speaker 3: necessarily popular of the entire base. Yes, it turns out

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Speaker 3: we have a large heterogeneous country, just like Iran, with

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Speaker 3: multi ethnic groups all often with their competing in different

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Speaker 3: power centers, that a single protest is not necessarily reflective

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Speaker 3: of the entire population. And this is the issue, is

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Speaker 3: that now with Twitter and with their complete like lack

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Speaker 3: of the lack of scruples for a lot of these

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Speaker 3: propaganda counts.

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Speaker 1: Like let's put this one up here.

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Speaker 3: For example, this was posted yesterday, It was amplified all

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Speaker 3: across It got tens hundreds of thousands of views, and

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Speaker 3: this person says huge protests tonight. Some estimates one million

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Speaker 3: people are out trump and raise out polities actions push

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Speaker 3: the people to protests. They posted that yesterday and said

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Speaker 3: it came out on January thirteenth. It was actually took

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Speaker 3: place on January eighth. Now those six or five days

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Speaker 3: in the interim are pretty important because that's when the

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Speaker 3: arm crackdown happened.

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Speaker 1: And now all of the reports.

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Speaker 3: Seeming to come out of the country say, actually, there

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Speaker 3: are not large scale people that are out in the streets.

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Speaker 3: Actually many of the protests have been quelled. Actually, you know,

404
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Speaker 3: shops and other things are opening. No one's denying that

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Speaker 3: there's been an authoritarian crackdown by all accounts. But the

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Speaker 3: point is you don't know a eight. That's another one

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Speaker 3: to put this up here. As Michael Tracy flagged, the

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Speaker 3: death tolls that are being splashed all over are sourced

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Speaker 3: to an outfit.

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Speaker 1: In Fairfax, Virginia.

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Speaker 3: Northern Virginia, where I live, called human rights activists in

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Speaker 3: Iran that is overwhelmingly funded by the US government.

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Speaker 1: What's their methodology? Is it credible? Who cares?

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Speaker 3: Just pump the big numbers out. This is a huge

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Speaker 3: problem here in Washington. And for all you know, the

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Speaker 3: so many right wingers who are obviously upset during doge

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Speaker 3: usaid all correct in my opinion, right us about how

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Speaker 3: oh you've got all these groups and national and downlod

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Speaker 3: for democracy, they're not trustworthy, CIA cutouts.

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Speaker 1: And all that.

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Speaker 3: Here you go, perfect example and yet no scruples. And

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Speaker 3: this is where the media in particular is so to

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Speaker 3: blame because take Gaza for example, they'll couch everything. Israel

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Speaker 3: says this, they take it as fact. Gaza says this,

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Speaker 3: Oh we got to quadruple verify.

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Speaker 1: We can't run with that one.

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Speaker 3: Here again, activist groups, who what, who's funding it? What

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Speaker 3: was your method Nothing? And it just gets pumped out

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Speaker 3: into the mainstream.

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Speaker 2: It also accepts this preposterous framing that this is about protests,

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Speaker 2: that Trump cares about protests, safety of protesters, etc. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the sad reality is, and it's deeply, deeply unfair to

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Speaker 2: the RANNIE and people that as long as we and

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Speaker 2: Israel have our clause in that country, know, they're not

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Speaker 2: going to be able to have true democracy. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you're either going to have a repressive Islamist regime of

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Speaker 2: what they have now, or you're going to have a

438
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 2: failed state a la Syria or Lebanon or Libya We've

439
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 2: and how that plays out horrible and miserating for the population.

440
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 2: Or you're going to have some you know, puppet dictator

441
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 2: of you know who's doing the bidding of the West.

442
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 2: Like it's nothing but horrific options on the table. And

443
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: that is a sad reality. As long as we continue

444
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 2: to try to control Iran, we continue to want to do,

445
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: you know, whatever Israel wants to improve their power standing

446
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: in the region.

447
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 4: And so even just to.

448
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like, I feel for the legitimate

449
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 2: aspirations of the protesters, I genuinely do. But yeah, when

450
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: you're putting out pieces that are unverified, trying to manipulate

451
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 2: the genuine like goodwill and sentiment of Americans who want

452
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: to see people be free and want to see us

453
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: as you know, trying to help people have their genuine

454
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: you know, wishes for self determination be fulfilled, You're manipulating

455
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 2: those emotions, and you're not telling people the truth about

456
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 2: what this is actually all about.

457
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, because what if the legitimate aspirations of their people

458
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 3: is to not be in ISRAELI your American reump state.

459
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: What then? Oh no, you can't have that. Yeah, that's

460
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 1: the issue.

461
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 2: And you've got a lot of similar to Israel. So

462
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: you've got a lot of people in the diaspora.

463
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 4: Who aren't there.

464
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said, who.

465
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 4: Don't have skin in the game.

466
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I saw this leading on Piers Morgan who

467
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 2: was threatening to like dismember and is Iranian professor.

468
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 4: She threatened to have Jink killed too, like just wild.

469
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 4: So she said that.

470
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 2: There, She told Glenn Greenwall, there have been more people

471
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,479
Speaker 2: killed in Iran in these you know, past couple of

472
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 2: weeks than in all of the genocide in Gaza. Like

473
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 2: just utterly insane stuff. But so you've got you know,

474
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 2: you've got those types out there too that aren't doing

475
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: themselves in the spaery.

476
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: We need to have a much bigger conversation.

477
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: There's too much focus on dual loyalty just when it

478
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 3: comes to Israel and to Palestan, and not nearly enough

479
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 3: whenever it comes to Cuba, Venezuela and Iran. I mean,

480
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've seen these, you know, tweets and all

481
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: these as well. They're like Iranians are telling you what

482
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: they want. Listen to them instead of like, first of all, no,

483
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 3: even if that's what you want, this is our country.

484
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: I don't have to listen to shit that you have

485
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 3: to say. And second, if you come over here and

486
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 3: your only sole focus is using our country as a

487
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 3: tool of your domestic politics, then fuck you.

488
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: You should get out of here.

489
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: And then, of course, though none of that is ever

490
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 3: couched in any like, none of that is ever couch

491
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: as illegitimate or you know, or betraying the national interests.

492
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 3: And it's like, I don't know why we can't have

493
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: more of a of a more nuanced conversation, like you

494
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 3: just said. Yeah, we can feel horrible. I mean, do

495
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 3: I sometimes see people gunned down in the streets.

496
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 1: Of course not.

497
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: There are bad things that happen all over the world.

498
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 3: That doesn't means necessarily we should do anything about it. Now,

499
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 3: put Glenn Greenwall's tweet please up here on the screen,

500
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 3: just to show you all where the polling is. This

501
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 3: is at least, you know, at least the public is

502
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 3: with us if the elites aren't. Independence eighty to eleven

503
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 3: eighty percent Democrats, seventy nine percent Republicans fifty three think

504
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 3: that the US should not get involved if protesters in

505
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 3: Iran are killed while demonstrating against the Iranian government, because

506
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: I think everybody has seen this story before. It's just

507
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: like Libya. This is Libya logic. Oh, it's just air strikes,

508
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 3: no fly zone.

509
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it.

510
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 3: It'll be fine, Everything will work out completely fine. We

511
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: have seen enough of how that this all works out.

512
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 3: And in this case, remember the explicit justification is not

513
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 3: about nuclear sites or anything. It genuinely is about regime

514
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 3: change or regime punishment to weaken it and to overthrow

515
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: the government. And to say, you know, I even saw

516
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: I think, as John Meersheimer made this point to declare

517
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 3: that the protesters are acting on behalf of the United States,

518
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 3: probably the worst possible thing you could say for the

519
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: protest movement, that is there any wrong. They don't want

520
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 3: to be controlled by most odd and by the United

521
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 3: States and the CIA. Look at their own history of

522
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 3: their democratic aspirations and what worked out with them final thing,

523
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 3: just because I personally had to get this in here.

524
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: Put a ten up here. I love my friend Jason

525
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: Jason Willock over at the Washington Post, shout out, you

526
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: guys should read his columns.

527
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: He is. He's an excellent legal journalist.

528
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 3: He'll go through and he'll just read all of these

529
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: indictments and he flagged this for me. This isn't the

530
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 3: new Trump DJ. So the DOJ, in their argument about

531
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 3: why they had to capture Maduro, said that part of

532
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: it was humanitarian intervention, and so they cite Crystal Human

533
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: Rights WI reports in there, and they say that we

534
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 3: had to remove Maduro because illegal mining was displacing indigenous communities.

535
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 4: So the other deep passion for for Donald Trump.

536
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 1: Woke is back. All right, well, this is dark woke, folks.

537
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: We have to remove Maduro and institute his dictatorship as

538
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: long as they sell US oil because illegal mining in

539
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: Venezuela was displacing indigenous communities.

540
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 1: And even child labor.

541
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 3: The horror, the horror of it all, and of course

542
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 3: that's what it's all about.

543
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: So this is giving the game away.

544
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 3: It also shows you the extent to which this so

545
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 3: called international humanitarian concern and all that is a pure

546
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: state's play by the great powers, the European Union, all

547
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: of these other people. I mean, last word, because our

548
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 3: guest is standing by. You know, you see the European Union,

549
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 3: Germany and Ukraine supporting regime change in Iran, and they

550
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 3: don't think for a second, Hey wait, hold on a second.

551
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 3: You can just declare from Germany that the Iranian government

552
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 3: is illegitimate and then at the same time you're going

553
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: to say that Putin if he says that about Ukraine,

554
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 3: that that's also illegitimate.

555
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: You can't have it both ways. Man. You don't believe

556
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: in sovereignty.

557
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: That's why it's like these all of the rhetoric that

558
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: these people have, it's hollow.

559
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: And it's meaningless.

560
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: That's the last thing. And now we have our guest

561
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: standing by, Jeanine. Let's get to it.

562
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: So we are very fortunate to be joined this morning

563
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: by a civil liberties attorney, Janine Unis. She is the

564
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: National Legal Director of the ADC. She's also co host

565
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 2: of the previously prohibited podcast, and she joins us, now,

566
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 2: great to see.

567
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: You, Good to see you so much for having me.

568
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So Sager and I had a very

569
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: lengthy debate slash discussion about the killing of Renee Good.

570
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: But the one thing that both of us lack is

571
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 2: any sort of law background, So that's where you come

572
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: into play. But I actually wanted to start with this

573
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: latest shooting that unfolded last night in Minneapolis, of which

574
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: the details are still incredibly hazy. So let's start with

575
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 2: putting up nine on the screen. This is the government's

576
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: narrative of what happened after we got initial local reports

577
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: that there had been another shooting involving federal law enforcement officers.

578
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 4: Everyone saying Ice.

579
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: We don't actually know if it was specifically Ice, but

580
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: in any case, what the DHS put out is this.

581
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: At six fifty pm Central time, federal law enforcement officers

582
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: were conducting a targeted traffic stop in Minneapolis of an

583
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: illegal alien from Venezuela who was released into the country

584
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: by Joe Biden in twenty twenty two. In an attempt

585
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: to evade arrest, the subject fled the scene in his

586
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: vehicle and crashed into a parked car. The subject then

587
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: fled on foot. The law enforcement officer caught up to

588
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: the subject on foot and attempted to apprehend him. When

589
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: the subject began to resist and violently assault the officer.

590
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: While the subject and law enforcement were going to struggle

591
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: on the ground, two subjects came out of a nearby

592
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: apartment and also attacked the law enforcement officer with a

593
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: snowshovel and broom handle. As the officer was being ambushed

594
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: and attacked by the two individuals, the original subject got

595
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: loose and began striking the officer with a shovel or broomstick.

596
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 4: Fearing for his life.

597
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: And safety as he was being ambushed by three individuals,

598
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: officer fired a defensive shot to defend his life. The

599
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: initial subject was hit in the leg. All three subjects

600
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: ran back into the apartment and barricaded themselves inside. The

601
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 2: attacked officer and subject are both in the hospital. Both

602
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: attackers are in custody. This attack on another brave member

603
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: of law enforcement took place while Minnesota's top leaders, Governor

604
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: Wallas and Mayor Frar are actively encouraging and organized resistance

605
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: to ice and federal law enforcement officers. Hateful rhetoric must end,

606
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Okay, So that is the initial story

607
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,239
Speaker 2: that was put out. There was some sort of an

608
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: ambush law enforcement officer of some stripe is attacked, fearing

609
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: for his life, fires a shot hits the guy in

610
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: the leg. Now, there is a video that has come

611
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: out on Instagram that it's all in Spanish, So I'll

612
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: just go ahead and put it up on the screen

613
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: and I'll give you guys this the summary of what

614
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: is said here that appears to be taken inside of

615
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 2: the home where the man who was shot in the

616
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: leg is now in side this home and they're calling

617
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: nine to one one. They're saying, please, we have small

618
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: children in the house. What if they shoot into the house.

619
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: They go on to say that you know, he was

620
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: trying to flee them and he was shot in the

621
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: leg inside the house. So that is the story that

622
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: they are telling the nine to one to one dispatches.

623
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: They're begging for someone to come and help, police to

624
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: come and help, very fearful about the safety of their

625
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: children or their child there in the house.

626
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 4: So that's what we've got so far.

627
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: Eyewitnesses also described some sort of a foot chase as well.

628
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: And so as you know, as someone who's looked at

629
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: this video now and I know you've been taking a

630
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: look at the situation this morning, you know what do

631
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: you see here, and what do you make of the

632
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: government's narrative and how it's holding up so far.

633
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 5: Well, it doesn't seem to be consistent with the video,

634
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 5: that's for sure. I mean, first of all, there's a

635
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: difference between trying to shooting someone who's trying to flee

636
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 5: and shooting someone who's attacking you in self defense. That

637
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 5: there are two very different things. And then whether or

638
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: not he was shot when he was inside the apartment

639
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 5: or before that are obviously conflicting. So I mean, it

640
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 5: is clearly unfolding, and I imagine we'll learn more and

641
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 5: some evidence will come out, forensic evidence especially that could

642
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 5: corroborate one or the other story. But the government's definitely

643
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 5: not consistent with the video.

644
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that, because that's part of the

645
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: reason I want to have you on.

646
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 6: Again.

647
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, didn't I don't really.

648
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: Understand the exact ins and outs in particular like let's

649
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: say self defense law. But zooming out, I thought it

650
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: would be important. Can you set out some of your

651
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: background working on civil liberties, let's say, over the last

652
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: five years, just for the audience before we get into it.

653
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 5: Sure, so I've actually worked in civil liberties law for

654
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: about five years exactly that timeframe, mostly constitutional law. I

655
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 5: worked on a lot of COVID related cases, so challenging

656
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 5: government ye vaccine mandate, COVID vaccine mandates, censorship around COVID topics,

657
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 5: especially on social media and government involvement in that. Right now,

658
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 5: I'm doing a lot of work on censorship related to

659
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 5: the Palestine Israel issue, which is a major topic.

660
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's at this time.

661
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 5: Prior to that, I was actually a defense attorney. So

662
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 5: that's so my background is relevant.

663
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: Good, So I think it's very useful. I think you're

664
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: almost important to lay out. Right now, let's get to

665
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: some of these There's been a lot of discussion here

666
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 3: and political concern over like papers, right being asked for

667
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: papers and so one of the things, let's put that video,

668
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: let's say, up here on the screen.

669
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: You can watch some of this is going to roll.

670
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: So in a particular number of these instances, you see

671
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 3: these mass ice officers and asking for people's identification. This is,

672
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: you know, obviously cause a lot of political concern over

673
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: entering the US papers. Please, era, what do you make

674
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 3: of this from a civil liberty's perspective? What does it

675
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: fit with existing case law? Is this a violation and

676
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: where the US Supreme Court? Is this overreach, et cetera.

677
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: What do you make A number of these video has

678
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: been coming out for the last year or so.

679
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 5: So painting with a broad brush. I mean, generally speaking,

680
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 5: the officers aren't really supposed to go up to you

681
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 5: and ask you for identification or whether you're in the

682
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 5: country illegally unless they have some reason to believe you specifically,

683
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 5: are like just looking at someone and saying I think

684
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 5: they're illegal is not a good basis. It's but it's

685
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 5: hard to delineate exactly. So it's not a huge issue

686
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 5: for them to walk up to somebody on the street

687
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 5: and say, hey, can you show me some identification? But

688
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 5: you have every right to say no, and they can't

689
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 5: use that against you. So whether or not you're a

690
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 5: citizen or whether you're not you're here illegally, you can

691
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 5: walk away and they're not supposed to do anything. And

692
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 5: if they do do something that's against the law.

693
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: Does ICE have jurisdiction to like make traffic stops? And

694
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: just because that's another thing we see, you know a

695
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: lot of interactions with moving vehicles.

696
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 4: What are they allowed to.

697
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: Do in their capacity as immigration enforcement.

698
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, so they are not supposed to be making traffic

699
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 5: stops generally, although that there are some people who are

700
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 5: claiming otherwise. Their jurisdiction is really to enforce immigration law,

701
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 5: you know, patrol the borders and make sure people are

702
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 5: not here illegally in that kind of thing. Uh, State,

703
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 5: it's really state and local laws and state and local

704
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: cops who are supposed to be enforcing traffic law. And

705
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 5: now what happened with Renee Good was that they said

706
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 5: that she was obstructing their enforcement attempts, their attempts to

707
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: enforce immigration law. And there is some law saying that

708
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 5: that that would be a basis for uh, you know,

709
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 5: law enforcement doing something. I don't think it rises to

710
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: the level of an obstruction of their operation. Like her

711
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 5: car was just a little bit, you know, in the street.

712
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 5: That's not like she's I think.

713
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: What what were what does the obstruction look like?

714
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 5: Something? Really like if you had a lot of people

715
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 5: who were like creating a barrier or something so the

716
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 5: officers couldn't do there whatever they were doing. I don't

717
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 5: really think they should be going up to people's houses

718
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 5: and knocking and asking if.

719
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: They're here legally, I think as legal.

720
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 5: I think that it's legal, and you have every right

721
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 5: to shut the door, not open it, or they can

722
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 5: go up to your house. I don't think it's very

723
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 5: good practice in terms of like creating trust with the public,

724
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 5: and it's just kind of, you know, just not great.

725
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

726
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: We've also seen reports that they're going up to people

727
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: and asking them about the ethnicity of their neighbors to

728
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 2: try to give them targets to go after as well,

729
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 2: which you know, I don't know if I mean, you

730
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: can tell me if you think that that is legal

731
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: or not, but it certainly I think would be something

732
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: that a lot of people would find pretty objectionable.

733
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,479
Speaker 5: Racial profiling, Yeah, I think that would violate some civil

734
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 5: rights law.

735
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 2: Let me but I do want to get your view

736
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: on Renee Goods killing. Yeah, from start to finish, because

737
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: I think in the very viral post you put on Twitter,

738
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 2: you raised a variety of questions from beginning to end,

739
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: including why is why are their officers trying to pull

740
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: her out of her car? To begin with? You know,

741
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: what is the justification for that? Why is this officer,

742
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 2: you know, putting himself in front of the vehicle. So

743
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: go ahead and just give us your view after I

744
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: know you watched all the videos and all the angles

745
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: and all the things of what unfolded, and you know

746
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: what the law says about what was done.

747
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 5: So there are two major elements I would say. The

748
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 5: first is whether they had the right to arrest her

749
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 5: in the first place, and I would say no, although

750
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 5: I that's debatable and that would probably be an issue

751
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 5: that's if this ever goes to trial, which is probably

752
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 5: pretty unlikely, that's probably something that will be litigated whether yeah,

753
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 5: the authority to arrest and stop her, because again the

754
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 5: question is whether she was not whether she was committing

755
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 5: a traffic violation because again he didn't have the authority,

756
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 5: those officers didn't have the authority to police that. But

757
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 5: whether what she was doing rose to the level of

758
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 5: obstruction of a lawful enforcement operation, And again I maintained

759
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 5: probably not, because it wasn't like she was stopping them

760
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 5: from really doing the overall.

761
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 4: Vehicles were able to get back where she was parked.

762
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: Yes, this is like well litigated in case law, like

763
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 3: in terms of obstruction for what that looks like.

764
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 5: I think, So, I mean, I'm not I wouldn't call

765
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 5: myself an expert on exactly that, but I think there's yeah.

766
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 5: So for that reason, I don't think they were entitled

767
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 5: to try to arrest her and get her out of

768
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 5: the car. Other people might differ, And anyway, even if

769
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 5: they were entitled to, I think that they behave pretty

770
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 5: badly Like that is not how you de escalate a situation.

771
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: Just behavior factory and legally in a situation like this,

772
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 3: it so.

773
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 5: In terms of the second part, I think yes, it

774
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 5: can so whether or not they were entitled to. He

775
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 5: was entitled to shoot her in self defense. The standard

776
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 5: for that is you in order to succeed on a justification,

777
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 5: justification self defense is the same thing theory. At trial,

778
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 5: you have to show the jury that you were in

779
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 5: reasonable fear of death or sorry, let me phrase it differently. Yeah,

780
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 5: you reasonably believed that you were at risk of death

781
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 5: or serious physical injury from the person that you stopped,

782
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 5: and that you needed to use that force in order.

783
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: To stop them.

784
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 5: So it has both the subjective and objective component, like

785
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 5: you have to have the belief that you're about to

786
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 5: be killed or very seriously harmed, and you also that

787
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 5: belief has to be reasonable. So if you know, you're

788
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 5: just completely exaggerating the nature of the threat, that's you

789
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 5: might not be able to succeed.

790
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So.

791
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 5: One thing that's taken into consideration is whether you sort

792
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 5: of played a role in getting to the point where

793
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 5: someone was using the deadly physical force. So his conduct

794
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 5: prior to what happened could factor in. Now, I think

795
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: from watching the video many many times, that he was

796
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 5: not in harm's way when he fired the shots. It

797
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 5: looks to me as though his feet were clearly planted

798
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 5: on a left and so when he fired the shots,

799
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 5: the vehicle was driving away, and it was clear, I mean,

800
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 5: it was very clear to me that her intent was

801
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 5: to drive away, not to run him over, even if

802
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 5: he did get hit.

803
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: So that was the next question we could put this

804
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 3: CBS report. Let's put that one up here on the screen.

805
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 3: Let's couch that it is CBS. These are officials were

806
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: saying this anonymously. They're saying the ice agent who shot

807
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 3: Renee Good suffered internal bleeding. Now again not confirmed, no

808
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 3: medical records released.

809
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: It's CBS News. Let's put all of that out there.

810
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 3: However, if that were to be true, and again, you know,

811
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 3: watching the video, it is difficult to say. There's the

812
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 3: New York Times video where they say that the feet

813
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 3: on the other side of the exact moment. I know

814
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: that the first bullet went through the front of the vehicle.

815
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 3: The video front was on the front of the side, right.

816
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: So the first the video where he is filming and

817
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: leaked to some news outlet, he drops his phone.

818
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: It's not it's not clear whether it's hit or not.

819
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: What does it matter actually in this.

820
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 5: Case, whether he was hit yes, not really no, because

821
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 5: the really, really the only question is whether he was

822
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 5: afraid for his life when he fired the shots for

823
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 5: serious physical injury. And in fact, the fact that he

824
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 5: was hit, if I were the prosecutor, I would actually

825
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 5: use that to say it shows he was angry. And

826
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 5: the fact he said fucking bitch, I don't bitch afterwards

827
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 5: again would sort of corroborative evidence that he was angry,

828
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 5: not scared.

829
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 4: I'm afraid.

830
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 5: But so, even if he could get away with a

831
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 5: justification defense for the even if he could convince a

832
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 5: jury for the first shot, you have to show that

833
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 5: you were justified for each use of deadly physical force.

834
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 5: So you can't just you know, once you've done it,

835
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 5: the first time, at that threat no longer exists.

836
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: You have to stop.

837
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 5: And I don't see how he could possibly convince anybody

838
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 5: with the second and third.

839
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: And one of the things I and again I want

840
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: to be clear, like I think this is a horrible situation.

841
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: What I had I hadn't watched.

842
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, many of these, like cop videos and where somebody

843
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: tries to run somebody over, even if allegedly, that is

844
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: in almost every case chaotic, crazy, multiple shots fired, even

845
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: if somebody's vehicles away. Usually the cop gets away with

846
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: it largely because they're like, well, we shire fire in

847
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 3: a short burst. That's like consistent with our training. How

848
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 3: does that work in the case law.

849
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 5: I don't it doesn't really people have been saying that.

850
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 5: But if anything, the fact he's an officer means he

851
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 5: should be more you know, maybe a civilian would be

852
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 5: able to get away with a justification defense in that situation,

853
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 5: when an officer wouldn't, say you know what, I was

854
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 5: so scared, I just started firing and I couldn't stop.

855
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 5: But an officer is supposed to be trained not to

856
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 5: do exactly that, to use you know, very precise force

857
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 5: necessary to stop threats. But so and then as I

858
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 5: also wanted to address the CBS thing, which is frankly,

859
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 5: first of all, when I saw that, I was like, well,

860
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 5: I don't trust CBS.

861
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 4: Or anybody else.

862
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: Yes, I think, I.

863
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 3: Look, if you want to make that claim, they got

864
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 3: to release it to the exactly it's gonna be relevant

865
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: a trial, there is a trial or an indictment grand

866
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: jury exactly.

867
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

868
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 5: But again, the fact that he was injured does not

869
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 5: you know, does not justify these deadly physical force if

870
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 5: he was injured.

871
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 2: The Vice President of the United States says, this officer

872
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 2: has quote absolute immunity in the conduct of his of

873
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: his job. Is that Is that accurate from a legal perspective?

874
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 5: And I thought fans went to law school.

875
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: It's barred too.

876
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 5: No, there's no doctrine that says police officers or any

877
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 5: law enforcement officers have immunity when to they can just

878
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 5: do whatever they want. The standard they have to show

879
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 5: that what they did was necessary and proper to effectuate

880
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 5: their duties. So it's kind of a circular standard, like

881
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 5: you would have to show the court that it was

882
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 5: necessary and proper, and then that's going to get into

883
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 5: the justification events. So it's all going to be sort

884
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 5: of intertwined. If this ever goes to trial, it's I

885
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 5: would say it's probably unlikely to go to trial because

886
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 5: of the dynamic between the state and the federal idea.

887
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit more about that, and

888
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: just for the audience, So you guys know, originally this

889
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: was a joint federal and state investigation. Then the Feds

890
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 2: ice down the state and said we're taking it over entirely,

891
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 2: and now the reporting that has come out indicates that

892
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: they have decided they are not going There were resignations

893
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: actually in the Civil Liberties Department that would have been

894
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: investigating this officer's conduct because they decided not to investigate

895
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: him at all and instead are investigating Renee Good and

896
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: her wife. And so you've had a series of resignations

897
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 2: over that. So they're not interested obviously in prosecuting this guy.

898
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: Governor Walls and Mayor Jacob Fry have said that they're

899
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: going to attempt an investigation. So talk about the difficulties

900
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: that they face and why you don't think that there

901
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 2: will ever be you know, presentation to a grand jury,

902
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: let alone a full trial.

903
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, as for your first point too, this

904
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 5: is the problem with the fact it got so political,

905
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 5: as you know, and no one will believe any investigation

906
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 5: that the federal government does. But that aside, So because

907
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 5: he's a federal officer, he can have the case removed

908
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 5: to federal court that it still would be on state charges,

909
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 5: so it'd basically be like a state trial in federal court.

910
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 5: It's kind of weird, but it would be a more

911
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 5: favorable venue for him. So another issue, as I understand it,

912
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 5: is that the Feds are not really cooperating with the

913
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 5: state and they have the Feds have the evidence that

914
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 5: you would need in order to conduct a proper investigation.

915
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 5: I don't know if the state well be.

916
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: That was my quest, like is the video not enough?

917
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 3: You know, the video that clearly was leaked by either

918
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 3: the officer eyes who I don't know exactly leaked, but

919
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 3: considering everything that you have, like did they what else

920
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: would they need necessary?

921
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 5: Well, the fact that people are debating so much what

922
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 5: the video shows, I think shows it's not enough. I mean,

923
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 5: there were eyewitnesses, so you would if at a trial,

924
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 5: you would want all the evidence, So all the videos

925
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 5: and eyewitness isn't it You know? Videos are two d

926
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 5: we don't have necessarily the kind of you don't have

927
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 5: the ability to make the same level of observation as

928
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 5: an eyewitness. So I would want to hear from eyewitnesses.

929
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 5: We haven't really yet well from what I understand, they

930
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 5: have said that it was very clear that she was

931
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 5: driving away and that the officer wasn't in danger. It

932
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 5: would be nice to hear from some of those people,

933
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 5: you know, more more extensively about what they saw. But

934
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 5: so I don't think the video is enough, and the

935
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 5: state would need to be able to get access to

936
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 5: the witnesses and various like the forensic evidence. One question,

937
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 5: for instance, that I would imagine would come up is

938
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 5: which shot killed her if or was it more than one?

939
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 5: Because for example, if the first shot didn't kill her

940
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 5: but he was justified, and a jury finds he was

941
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 5: justified in firing that, but the second and third did

942
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 5: and he wasn't justified, there you know that that would

943
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 5: actually create a different outcome. So it's complicated, got.

944
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: It since he could have it removed to federal court,

945
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: but it would still be state charges. Would the would

946
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: Trump be able to pardon him since he can do

947
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: federal pardons but not state pardons.

948
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 5: I think so, I'm pretty sure. I don't want to

949
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 5: say one hundred percent, because that's a very unusual case.

950
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 5: I think he probably be able to. I don't know

951
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 5: if he would pardon him if he was convicted in

952
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 5: a federal court.

953
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: Of course he would, absolutely it would I mean. And

954
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: then the other question I had this was something that

955
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: our colleague Ryan actually floated, was there's no statute of

956
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: limitations on murder. Yeah, so if you end up with

957
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 2: a democratic administration in the future, is it possible that

958
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: they pick up this investigation and prosecute him down the line,

959
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: assuming that he doesn't get a preemptive parson from the

960
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: President of United So Georgie I also think is a possibility.

961
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, But it's harder to get convictions as time goes

962
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 5: on because people's memories fade, you know, it's easier to

963
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 5: create doubt about what people That's why prosecutors like to

964
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 5: get cases to trial more quickly. An eyewitness five years

965
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,479
Speaker 5: later is not as compelling as an eyewitness five months later.

966
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let me ask you, as you know, I mean,

967
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: this is obviously has a legal aspect to it, but

968
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,959
Speaker 2: is bigger picture your son says an American who's thinking

969
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 2: about these things.

970
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 4: The fact that we all watch.

971
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: This unfold some I think I saw eighty four percent

972
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: of people who were polled said that they saw this video,

973
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: and a majority think he was unjustified. And you know,

974
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 2: there's obviously a lot of public upset over what has

975
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: happened here. If we all watch, then there's what you

976
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 2: have to call a federal government cover up. Yeah, no

977
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 2: attempt to even investigate. You immediately had Christy Noam Stephen Miller, JD.

978
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: Vance the President of the United States, calling her a

979
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: domestic or calling Renee Good a domestic terrorist. And there

980
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: is zero accountability for this guy, like, not even an attempt,

981
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: not even an investigation, nothing, Like what does that do

982
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: to our justicystem? What does that do to people's sense

983
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: of faith and trust that there's any sort of possible

984
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 2: accountability with these massed agents of the state being deployed

985
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: into various American cities.

986
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 5: Well, it investerates any sense of trust and any trust

987
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 5: that the populace has in the federal government. And I think,

988
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 5: you know, I think what happened here was that people

989
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 5: form their opinions very quickly based on how they felt

990
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 5: about Ice and how they felt about what ICE's enforcement program.

991
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 5: So the people who liked what Ice was doing assumed

992
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 5: that the officer was justified, and the people who didn't

993
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 5: assume that he wasn't. And I think, I mean, it's

994
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 5: a huge problem. As you mentioned, high up federal officials

995
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 5: like Christy Noman JD. Vans were saying immediately within minutes,

996
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 5: I think, at least less than an hour, that she

997
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 5: was a domestic terrorist. I mean, this is completely crazy,

998
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 5: and I don't think any reasonable person can look at

999
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 5: that video and think she was a domestic terrorist. She

1000
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 5: at most she may have, you know, clipped him as

1001
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 5: she tried to get away. But it's just a crazy

1002
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 5: framing and I think completely depleted public trust in the

1003
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 5: federal government's ability to handle this and handle its enforcement

1004
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 5: operations going forward.

1005
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you worked a lot on civil liberties law.

1006
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 3: I was very you know, the domestic terrorist thing was ridiculous. Yeah,

1007
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 3: I totally agree whenever it comes to these types of stops,

1008
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 3: more like what you are watching, what is your general

1009
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 3: outlook as somebody who works somebody here so much on COVID.

1010
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 5: I mean, it's really creating kind of a police state.

1011
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 5: So even if some of it is legal. Some of

1012
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 5: the questioning and stuff, I just don't think it's a

1013
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 5: very good, very good policy. This is not how you

1014
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 5: want the government to relate to the people.

1015
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can put B five up on the screen,

1016
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: because I think it's important to emphasize that. You know,

1017
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: even if you are supportive of a restrictive immigration policy

1018
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: and you know you want a large deportation program, you know,

1019
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: there are expansions of the police state here that are

1020
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: obviously impacting everyone in America. Citizen and non Secretary Christinoum

1021
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: announced this. She says, drones represent the new frontier of

1022
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: American air superiority. Under President Trump, We're entering a new

1023
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 2: era to defend our air superiority, to protect our borders

1024
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: and the interior of the United States. With the creation

1025
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: of the DHS Program Executive Office for Unmanned Aircraft Systems

1026
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: and Counter Unmanned Aircraft Systems, President Trump continues his historic

1027
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: legacy and developing American dominance.

1028
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 4: This will help us.

1029
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: Continue to secure the border and cripple the cartels, protect

1030
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: our infrastructure, and keep Americans safe as they attend festivities.

1031
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: So announcing, you know now an expansion of the use

1032
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: of drones here domestically on US soil. We see all

1033
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: the agents, including the guy who's shot Rene Good, are

1034
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: filming all the time. There appears to be, you know,

1035
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 2: some pretty sophisticated facial recognition and tracking software that they're

1036
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: using to surveil anyone they encounter, not just you know,

1037
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 2: people they suspect of being undocumented immigrants. It seems like,

1038
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: you know, and by the way ICE's budget, this is

1039
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: the largest law enforcement agency in history. So to your

1040
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: point about the expansion of the police state, I mean,

1041
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: it seems like anyone, regardless of citizen, non immigration status, etc.

1042
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: This is truly a threat on everybody's civil liberties.

1043
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

1044
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, this is and I think this stuff

1045
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 5: will probably have to be worked out through the courts

1046
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 5: since it's kind of new, but I think they're probably

1047
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 5: Fourth Amendment, you know, search issues that could be raised.

1048
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 5: I mean, the government can't just surveil people without warrants

1049
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 5: and stuff like that. But because it's new technology, relatively

1050
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 5: new technology, it hasn't been sorted out in the courts, like.

1051
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 3: With the drones and it's general facial recognition. Yeah, but

1052
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 3: we've seen an erosion of that now over the last

1053
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: twenty years and it all seems to stand. I mean,

1054
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: you know, every time a TSA they don't even check

1055
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 3: your boarding pass anymore.

1056
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.

1057
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 2: How much have you looked into this NSPM seven memo

1058
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: that seeks to really expand the definition of domestic terrorist?

1059
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: And I think it's quite relevant here with the all

1060
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: the top government officials saying Renee Good is a domestic terrorist.

1061
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: And obviously, on its face, we all look at that

1062
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: and go, that's ridiculous. But I think by their own definitions,

1063
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 2: because obviously the definition of terrorism is actually very subjective

1064
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: and very political, they are really seeking to define anyone

1065
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 2: who is oppositional to this government as effectively being a

1066
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: domestic terrorist. So I think when they say that, I

1067
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 2: don't think they're lying. I think in their mind, based

1068
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: on their definition, they genuinely see Renee Good, her wife,

1069
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: any other protesters who are out there who are against

1070
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: what ICE is doing in their communities. I think they

1071
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: genuinely see them as domestic terrorists. And that does open

1072
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: up thanks to the War on Terror, it does open

1073
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: up a lot of state government capabilities for surveillance and

1074
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 2: aggressive action against them.

1075
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 5: Yeah. So I'm not familiar with the memo, but I

1076
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 5: can speak more generally to the issue. I mean, that's

1077
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 5: I think that's a strategy that's being used and it's very,

1078
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 5: very dangerous. And we also saw it last year with

1079
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 5: the arrests of people like Mahmud Khalil and Ramai's Oster

1080
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 5: who had just you know, participated in pro Palestine protests. Well,

1081
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 5: Khalil and then Ramaz's Ostrak had just written an op

1082
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 5: ed or signed onto an op ed and they were

1083
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 5: basically called terrorists. So this is like a real significant

1084
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 5: expansion of the use of the term. And what it

1085
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 5: does is it just is used to label people and

1086
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 5: then the public, a lot of the public will get

1087
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 5: on board with those people having no rights at all

1088
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 5: and being imprisoned or taken out of the country or whatever.

1089
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 3: So that's the last thing I'd like dan on you

1090
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 3: were saying you did a lot of work on the

1091
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 3: Palestinian censorship issue. I know it was more recent case

1092
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 3: surrounding the tar and ORGANI in New York. I think

1093
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 3: you worked on that.

1094
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: I didn't work on it. I commented on it a lot.

1095
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: Why do you tell us the audience is.

1096
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 4: You're passionate about it, as we are too?

1097
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 5: So yeah about the bear. Yeah, so Baitar is a

1098
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 5: I called a Jewish supremacist. People get offended by that term,

1099
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 5: but they are.

1100
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's just an accurate Yeah, that's

1101
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: what their ideology is.

1102
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they openly embrace violence against Palestinians, Muslims, and

1103
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 5: Jews who are anti Zionists or don't agree with their tactics.

1104
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 5: They actually threatened me, That's one reason.

1105
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 4: I have stake.

1106
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, and other people I know. So they have been

1107
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 5: getting away they apparently according well I'll back up, they

1108
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 5: law enforcement has been pretty unresponsive. I've made complaints. Other

1109
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 5: people I know have made complaints, and with you know,

1110
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 5: nothing like I was directly threatened with violence and harassed relentlessly.

1111
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 5: Not free speech, something really different. So they apparently reached

1112
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 5: a settlement the other day with the New York Attorney General,

1113
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 5: and the findings there described some of the things they've done,

1114
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 5: including participating in a stabbing at a protest in Brooklyn. Yeah,

1115
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 5: encouraging their members to bring weapons to protests, encouraging their

1116
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 5: members to beat people up, taking credit for beatings at

1117
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 5: the protests. I mean, if this was a Muslim group

1118
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 5: doing this, if the identities were reversed. Can you imagine

1119
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 5: what would happen? And like DJ doesn't care at all. Wow,

1120
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 5: this and the settlement is completely toothless. It just instructs

1121
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 5: them not to do those things, so not to violate

1122
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 5: the law, which they're already obliged not to violate the law.

1123
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 5: And that it imposes a fifty thousand dollars fine that's suspended,

1124
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 5: so they'll probably never pay it.

1125
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 2: So this and this came from the Attorney General of

1126
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: New York. Let James is the one who pushed this forward.

1127
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: I understanding they've effectively had to disband in New York,

1128
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 2: which I think is the place where they were most active.

1129
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 5: I don't think they actually have to disband. I read

1130
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 5: the settlement. I don't see that. I know that drop

1131
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 5: site reported on it that way. I don't see. They're

1132
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 5: just not supposed to do their legal activities, which there are,

1133
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 5: you're not supposed to do. So, I don't know that

1134
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 5: they've had to really change anything. And they're already mocking her.

1135
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 5: They say they've just moved their headquarters to Delaware, so

1136
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 5: they're making a mockery of the whole thing.

1137
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: Wow, okay, all right, Well let's uh, let's optimistic than

1138
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 3: I originally.

1139
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 5: Well, it is a public shaming, so they're okay, we'll.

1140
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 4: Take what we can.

1141
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1142
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 1: I like public shaming. I'm very profile. Thank you, Jeanine.

1143
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,800
Speaker 1: I appreciate your Yeah, thank you.

1144
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 4: Great to have you.

1145
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 5: Oh, thank you.