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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions ask if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Walk a walka walkah, Jamie, uh huh yeah, any thought.

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Speaker 3: I loved it. You came in hot, you came in hot.

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Speaker 2: Well how about this one? How about this one?

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Speaker 3: Me me, me, me, me, me me. Oh see, now

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Speaker 3: you're speaking my language. I love speaker so much. My god,

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Speaker 3: oh my god. Welcome to the Vechtel Cast. I'm in

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Speaker 3: as good a mood as possible right now because we

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Speaker 3: just watched the Muppet Movie nineteen seventy nine and.

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Speaker 2: It's your birthday episode, Jamie, Happy birthday.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. Yes, it is indeed my birthday episode.

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Speaker 3: Can't wait to live, laugh, love all over my birthday.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know really what I'm like planning to

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Speaker 3: do this year. I don't have any plans. It's just

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Speaker 3: like a random you know, it's not an exciting birthday.

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Speaker 3: So we'll see, we'll see what I choose. I think

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Speaker 3: I actually kind of just want to go to knats

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Speaker 3: Berry Farm. Again.

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Speaker 2: I'll go with you. I'll I'll be there.

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Speaker 3: Do you want to come? I was like, I have

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Speaker 3: made zero plans, but I kind of want to go

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Speaker 3: to Knots Berry Farm. I want to go see Snoopy.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it would it would help. And the

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Speaker 3: last slash. First time I went to Knots Berry Farm,

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Speaker 3: which was also on a birthday, I knew that they

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Speaker 3: were like a berry farm, but I didn't know that

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Speaker 3: they put berries in like any food. Like I had

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Speaker 3: berry meat loaf, okay, and it was good. I was like,

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Speaker 3: what the fuck is going on in this place?

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Speaker 2: I've been so I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's really fun. The theming is all over the place,

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Speaker 3: and it's like I would say that it's a flop,

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Speaker 3: but it's so kind of funny where they're like the

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Speaker 3: theme is California and you're like, okay, but they're like,

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Speaker 3: but Snoopies here and berries and berries. They also have

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Speaker 3: their own characters, like they're trying to make their own lore,

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Speaker 3: but it's like it's just not happening. They're like the

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Speaker 3: Bear family. You know them, and you're like, no, who

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Speaker 3: are they? And they're like the Bear family and there's

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Speaker 3: a whole ride dedicated to the Bear Family. They have

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Speaker 3: an antagonist. He's the Wolf. He's trying to steal all

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Speaker 3: the berries, and you're supposed to be invested in this

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Speaker 3: journey they're on, and you're just like, but who the

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Speaker 3: hell are they? Anyways, I bought merch. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: someone's got to because no one gives a shit about

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Speaker 3: this Bear family. Unfortunately, I can't wait to go again.

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Speaker 3: Let's go, let's go. I want to get berry meat loaf. Anyways,

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Speaker 3: that my two birthday wishes are to go to Minot

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Speaker 3: Berry Farm and two. I mean, it's such a fun

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Speaker 3: time of year when you get to enforce your will

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Speaker 3: on the Bechdel Cast feed. It's so thrilling. What were

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Speaker 3: your picks this year? You did Mister and Missus Smith.

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Speaker 3: He did Mars Attacks. What was the last one?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, who can remember? Not me? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny because I feel like every year I'm like, ugh,

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Speaker 3: I'm out of favorite movies. I can't like what I'm

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Speaker 3: just gonna have to start picking random stuff. But that's

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Speaker 3: the thing about movies. There's always more good ones that

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Speaker 3: you don't want to shut up about So, yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is my main feed pick and then we'll also have

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Speaker 3: some other picks going on the Patreon aka Matreon, which

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Speaker 3: you can check out.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, it was Monsters Inc. Was my other birthday pick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all bangers, all bangers and yeah, so before we

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Speaker 3: get into the episode about the Muppet Movie nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 3: parentheses not the Jason Siegal one. Even though it's fine,

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Speaker 3: I feel like people are like people remember that movie

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Speaker 3: less charitably than they should because they don't like Jason Segull.

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Speaker 3: And I get it.

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Speaker 2: He is in the movie too much.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he's in the movie way too much. And he

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Speaker 3: has just like him. And I was thinking about this

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Speaker 3: a lot recently because of just like the terror that

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Speaker 3: has been the advertising campaign for Harold and the Purple Crayon.

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Speaker 3: But like he and Zachary Levi, they like share this

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Speaker 3: like bizarre aura of menace to me more so Zachary Levi,

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Speaker 3: I really feel like there's like something You're not quite

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Speaker 3: right with him. I know, he's like he makes me uneasy.

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Speaker 3: Same the Shazam thing. Wait, I think about your Shazam

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Speaker 3: Shazam incident.

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Speaker 2: You mean the time that I went to go see

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Speaker 2: Shazam one with our dear friend Bryant, and that there

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Speaker 2: was someone in the elevator with us after the movie

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Speaker 2: who had also just seen Shazam, and he's.

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Speaker 3: Like, that was so fun.

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Speaker 2: Did you guys like it? And not being able to

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Speaker 2: pick up on social here's very well. Sometimes I was like,

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Speaker 2: I thought it fucking sucked and it was flimsy storytelling

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Speaker 2: and it was visually bad and everything about it sucked.

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Speaker 2: And the guy's like, oh, I liked it. Brian's behind

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Speaker 2: me being like, Kitlyn, shut the fuck up.

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Speaker 3: I think that in that interaction, everyone wins like I was.

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Speaker 2: Right to there express my opinion. What oh two men

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Speaker 2: went to silence a femme person. No, I'm gonna say

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Speaker 2: my thoughts.

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Speaker 3: And everyone got a great story out of that. So

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Speaker 3: there's no, there's nothing wrong. But yeah, no, Zachary Levi

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Speaker 3: Aora of Menace, Jason Siegel a little bit less. So anyways,

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Speaker 3: the Muppet movie itself, I think, oh, well, what is it?

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Speaker 3: They gave it the same title, don't I think it's

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Speaker 3: called the Muppets, that one the Muppets. It's a fine movie,

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Speaker 3: but we're not talking about it today. We're talking about

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Speaker 3: real oh O G Muppet lore. But before we do that,

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Speaker 3: and six four minutes into the episode, Welcome to the

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Speaker 3: Bechtel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Donte. This is our show where

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Speaker 2: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. Which you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a birthday episode. We don't really have time to

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Speaker 2: get into that. We are too busy having fun talking

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Speaker 2: about the Muppets. So you can just look up the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel tell in your own time, or listen to any

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Speaker 2: of our other five hundred fucking episodes.

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Speaker 3: Google it.

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Speaker 2: I don't think this is sorry to be hostile about it.

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Speaker 3: No, but there's You've had five hundred opportunities to get

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Speaker 3: it together for today, and so you know, I just like,

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Speaker 3: don't even really know what to say to you. After

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Speaker 3: all we've been through. It's been eight years. Say something

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Speaker 3: in eighty four years.

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Speaker 2: Well, basically, here's something that does pass the Bechdel test

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Speaker 2: if you learn by example, Hey Jamie m hmmm, Hey

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Speaker 2: Caitlyn houpid birth I'm like, are you gonna do that?

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Speaker 2: Happy birthday? Happy Muppet movie Day?

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Speaker 3: Thank you, and that would pass, and that.

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Speaker 2: Passed the backdel test. Okay, Yeah, anyway, Jamie, what is

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Speaker 2: your relationship with this movie Slash the Muppets in general?

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Speaker 3: I love this movie and I love the Muppets, pretty

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Speaker 3: short story, always have, always will This movie in particular,

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Speaker 3: I don't think I saw until like a little later on.

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Speaker 3: I feel like the Muppet content I had spinning in

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Speaker 3: my home outside of Sesame Street obviously, which almost feels

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Speaker 3: like it's own thing. Yeah, but I was like raised

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Speaker 3: on the Muppet movies that were coming out when I

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Speaker 3: was a kid, So I'm thinking Muppet Treasure Island, Muppets

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Speaker 3: in Space, Oh my gosh, there's that Muppet Christmas Carol,

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Speaker 3: like the ones that were more recent, and so I

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Speaker 3: think it was like a little later, and by later,

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Speaker 3: I mean I was probably ten, like when I saw

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Speaker 3: the older Muppet movies, Great Muppet Caper, the Muppet Movie,

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Speaker 3: Muppets Take Manhattan, et cetera. And then it wasn't until

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Speaker 3: college that I saw The Muppet Show, which for a

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Speaker 3: long time was like pretty hard to at least unless

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Speaker 3: you like bought the DVDs or whatever, like, was pretty

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Speaker 3: hard to access. And at least for what I could tell,

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Speaker 3: they weren't like re aired very often, and so then

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Speaker 3: I sort of had a second run of really being

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Speaker 3: into the Muppets in college, when I found, God, this

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Speaker 3: is gonna make me sound so fucking old. I found

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Speaker 3: a lot of old Muppet Show episodes on dailymotion dot com,

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Speaker 3: and I watched them and like really fell in love

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Speaker 3: with like deep Muppet loer and like how funny and

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Speaker 3: edgy and cool they were. I watched the Jason Siegel

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Speaker 3: Muppet movies. The first one I was like into, especially

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Speaker 3: because do you remember the cultural moment, Kaitlin when we

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Speaker 3: were all so excited that Brett from Flight of the

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Speaker 3: Concords won an Oscar for his Muppet song. Yes, we

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Speaker 3: were excited about that. I was excited about that. I

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Speaker 3: was there the Tina Fe Mumpet one. I was like, eh,

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Speaker 3: not as much.

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Speaker 2: Most wanted wanted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't too wild about it was

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Speaker 3: definitely not wild about their like weird the office ripoff

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Speaker 3: that they aired.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even know that existed until watching a video essay,

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Speaker 2: which we'll bring up later on. But yeah, because it

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Speaker 2: was not on my radar at all.

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Speaker 3: It was a mess. I don't know why that was

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Speaker 3: so very on my radar, but I was watching that

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Speaker 3: show week to week wo and I remember the like

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Speaker 3: backlash of I mean, it's so funny. I Okay, this

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Speaker 3: is my birthday episode and I have COVID and my

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Speaker 3: dad died, so this is gonna be like a Vibes episode.

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Speaker 3: But I do like, if my brain was working as normal,

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Speaker 3: I do think that there's like an element of like

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Speaker 3: the brief amount of time that quote unquote Kermit and

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Speaker 3: Miss Piggy broke up being very similar to the times

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Speaker 3: that quote unquote Barbie and Ken broke up, where they

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Speaker 3: are like an iteration of like they have to be

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Speaker 3: dating forever. And there are times canonically and they're definitely

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Speaker 3: with Kermit and Miss Piggy where I think it's Muppets

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Speaker 3: Take Manhattan where at the end they canonically get married.

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Speaker 3: But there's just an element to That's something I really

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Speaker 3: love about the Muppet World is like there's this element

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Speaker 3: to it where the relationship dynamics remain the same, but

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Speaker 3: things just like reset every once in a while, and

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Speaker 3: it's like, oh, sure, maybe it's like cathartic for some

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Speaker 3: people to see Miss Piggy and Kermit get married, but

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Speaker 3: in the next movie they're just dating again and like

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Speaker 3: they're having the same relationship problems. And there's like this

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Speaker 3: kind of cyclical nature to the world of the Muppets

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Speaker 3: that I really love and find comforting and I just

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Speaker 3: love them. Caitlin, who are your top muppets? I'm really

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Speaker 3: having a hard time, Like it's hard to choose, but

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Speaker 3: I have like a few muppets that I'm like, I

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Speaker 3: will ride for them, and a few muppets that I'm

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Speaker 3: like overrated. And it's gonna be controversial.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are probably many muppets that

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Speaker 2: I don't know about or know well enough to say,

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Speaker 2: because when I share my history with the Muppets, you'll

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Speaker 2: find that I have not been exposed to as much

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Speaker 2: Muppet media, okay as you perhaps. But my favorites are Gonzo, Rizzo,

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Speaker 2: the Rat, I like Ralph, and I'm a big fan

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Speaker 2: of Statler and Waldorf.

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Speaker 3: I mean, how could you not they rock?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think those are my faves.

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Speaker 3: Okay, how about you my faves are? I mean, it

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Speaker 3: feels almost like a kapa to be like, I love

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Speaker 3: Kur but I.

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Speaker 2: Do well as you can and should Kermit and.

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Speaker 3: Miss Piggy unequivocally. I also love Rizzo. I also love

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Speaker 3: Statler and Waldorf. I think Beaker is probably my favorite,

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Speaker 3: of course, he's probably my all time favorite Muppet.

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Speaker 2: And I like the Swedish Chef too.

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Speaker 3: The Swedish Chef is awesome.

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Speaker 2: And I like Fazzy Bear.

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Speaker 3: Okay, see that's where we're gonna have. I hate Fozzy Bear.

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Speaker 2: I just love a bear, you know, a bear who

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Speaker 2: likes a sweet treat.

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Speaker 3: Fozzy Bear is so triggering for me. Think of how

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Speaker 3: many delusional comedians we've spent time around fair I just

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Speaker 3: think Fozzy Bear like there is such a beauty to

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Speaker 3: the Muppets world. Of like they're always pursuing this dream.

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Speaker 3: They're always like very positive and very encouraging. And I

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Speaker 3: feel like Fozzy Bear disrupts that from me because I

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Speaker 3: think he should quit. I think he like his dreams

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Speaker 3: could only come true completely by chance or by riding

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Speaker 3: the coattails. He's talentless, he's annoying.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 3: I just like don't really support his dreams coming true.

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Speaker 3: I just like, don't.

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Speaker 2: I think I just like a bear and a hat

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Speaker 2: a Lah Paddington.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yes that's fair, but it's like I just like

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Speaker 3: think that Fozzy Bear like doesn't deserve success and I

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Speaker 3: resent him.

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Speaker 2: I resent him, but I mean we see his like

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Speaker 2: shtick in this movie and it does suck very badly.

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Speaker 2: So okay, I I could be swayed against Fozzy Bear.

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Speaker 3: I think Fozzy Bear to me represents every bad stand

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Speaker 3: up I've ever had to spend time with and like

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Speaker 3: tacitly encourage and I resent that. Yeah, it's just like,

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Speaker 3: you know what, no Fozzy Bar like quit, learn a trade,

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Speaker 3: get out like your art has no play. And I

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Speaker 3: resent Fozzy Bear because he's more successful than me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we're getting somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Now household name. He has a household name and we're not.

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Speaker 3: And that's fucked up and it represents a lot of

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Speaker 3: what's wrong with America is Fozzy Bear. He sucks. I

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Speaker 3: don't like Fozzy Bear. I think that's really my only

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Speaker 3: controversial ralph. I like, but I feel like he's like

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Speaker 3: a problematic favorite.

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Speaker 2: Well especially his conduct.

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Speaker 3: His conduct, his conduct, And I would say that I

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Speaker 3: since I was a kid, I love the band, I

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Speaker 3: love Janice.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I love.

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Speaker 3: Animal, but I didn't really remember or realize that animal

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Speaker 3: like really was I mean, obviously the elements of his character.

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Speaker 3: He's loud, he screams one word, he's like a Pokemon

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Speaker 3: on meth, but that he's a bit misogynist in these

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Speaker 3: early iterations I kind of forgot. I kind of forgot.

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Speaker 2: I think that a lot of the Muppets low key

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Speaker 2: don't like women.

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Speaker 3: And whether this how to do with the fuck that

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Speaker 3: the Muppet creative team is all men and we can't

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Speaker 3: be sure and we can't be sure, but anyways, yes,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot to be discussed. I also was thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 3: maybe I'm just thinking about the Scooby Doo of it all,

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Speaker 3: but there was I'm trying to think, if we can

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Speaker 3: think of a third example of this, it's a thing. Okay,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's just a coincidence, but in this movie we

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Speaker 3: meet like Kermit's nephew, Scrabby Doo is Scooby Doo's nephew, Like,

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Speaker 3: I can't think of what is that the uncle nephew relationship?

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Speaker 3: Being like critical, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's Scrooge McDuck is that his name?

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Speaker 2: And then his nephews Huey, Dewey, and Louie.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting. I don't have a specific thought on it,

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Speaker 3: but it's like all movies are about fathers and sons,

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Speaker 3: but every once in a while they're about uncles and nephews.

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Speaker 3: WHOA makes you think it's kind of interesting. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Robin the Frog doesn't really have much of a role

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Speaker 3: in this except to be like, hey, Uncle Kermit, is

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Speaker 3: this a movie? And He's like, yes, m hm. Anyways,

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Speaker 3: I hate Fozzy Bear. I just wanted to get that

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Speaker 3: out of the way at the top.

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Speaker 2: Point while taken and I'm finding myself less enthusiastic about

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Speaker 2: Fozzy so.

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Speaker 3: And I would just say to all of the fans,

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Speaker 3: like Fozzy fans, do not interact with me. I don't

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Speaker 3: want to hear from you. I'm not interested in the

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Speaker 3: counter argument. Like I've heard it all. You're not gonna

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Speaker 3: sell me on him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, fair period. My history with the Muppets, yes,

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Speaker 2: I like the Muppets a lot, although a lot of

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Speaker 2: what I know about them comes either from cultural osmosis

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Speaker 2: or specifically the Muppet Christmas Carol, which is my favorite

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Speaker 2: holiday movie of all time. But I haven't really consumed

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of other Muppet media. And if there

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Speaker 2: are Muppets who weren't in the Muppet Christmas Carol, I

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Speaker 2: have no idea who they are. For example, Wow, I

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Speaker 2: was on a kickball team when I lived in Boston,

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Speaker 2: Brag that was called the Electric Mayhem, and I had

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Speaker 2: no idea that that was a Muppets reference for the

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Speaker 2: entire like three years that I was on that kickball team.

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Speaker 3: I think that that is a deceptively like deep Cut.

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Speaker 2: I think I thought so too, But they're also like

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Speaker 2: popular enough that people named kickball team after them. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I have seen a few of the other Muppet movies,

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Speaker 2: especially Muppet Treasure Island. Although there's a Muppet Treasure Island

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Speaker 2: video game like a computer like you put in your

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Speaker 2: little CD ROM and there was a video game that

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Speaker 2: I played way more than I watched the movie. I

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Speaker 2: think I've seen Muppets Take Manhattan. I thought I had

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Speaker 2: seen the Muppet Movie nineteen seventy nine, but as I

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Speaker 2: was watching it for the episode, you hadn't seen it.

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Speaker 2: Nothing was familiar. Yeah, I think this was my first time.

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Speaker 3: Wow, oh that's so fun.

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Speaker 2: And then I did see The Muppets twenty eleven and

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Speaker 2: Muppets most wanted twenty fourteen. But yeah, I never really

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Speaker 2: saw any of the shows that existed, aside from you know,

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Speaker 2: Sesame Street. But again like specifically like shows revolving around

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Speaker 2: these Muppet characters. Haven't watched any of those shows. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: only watched a handful of the movies. So yeah, really

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Speaker 2: it's Muppet Christmas, Carol.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I don't know why I thought you had a

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Speaker 3: closer connection with the Muppets. That's like, that's fascinating. Muppet's

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Speaker 3: Treasure Island was definitely a moment. I remember, like, my

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Speaker 3: cousin Chloe had the VHS and one of the only

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Speaker 3: true fights I remember getting into with her was over

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Speaker 3: who could marry Jim from Muppet Treasure Island. Uh huh,

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Speaker 3: and it could only be one of us, And we

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Speaker 3: got into a huge fight about it and I lost

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Speaker 3: because she pushed me and started making out with the

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Speaker 3: TV screen. When Jim from Mubbet Treasure Island was on,

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Speaker 3: I'd been bested and children are amazing.

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Speaker 2: I think that was the first movie that I saw

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Speaker 2: Tim Curry in and I was like, oh's this He's

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Speaker 2: an icon.

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Speaker 3: I love him, Tim Curry, I mean iconic icon there.

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Speaker 3: I also was really. I mean the Muppet movie, the

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Speaker 3: one we're talking about today is such a fun Like

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Speaker 3: in the years, I feel like every time I watched

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Speaker 3: this movie, I recognize one person I didn't recognize before

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Speaker 3: because it's like the Who's Who of the seventies.

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Speaker 2: Kind of yeah and.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so fun. Richard Pryor is in this movie.

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Speaker 3: Elliott Gould. Elliott Gould is in multiple Muppet movies.

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Speaker 2: I'm not kidding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's also in them. It's take Manhattan.

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Speaker 3: I think he was maybe just a fan.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, like celebrities like when the show was airing

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Speaker 2: in the seventies, like they were lining up to be

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Speaker 2: guest stars on The Muppet Show.

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Speaker 3: I read, it's really amazing. I mean, I was thinking

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Speaker 3: the same thing about I recently rewatched the Pee Wee

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Speaker 3: Herman Christmas Special from nineteen eighty eight, and it's like,

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Speaker 3: I know that now we think of that as like

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Speaker 3: some random show from the late eighties early nineties, but

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Speaker 3: kind of the same deal at the time where it

365
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Speaker 3: was like everyone was in this where like Oprah Winfrey

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Speaker 3: was on it would be Goldberg, Grace Jones, little Richard,

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Speaker 3: like Frankie Avalanche, like share like every single share of

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Speaker 3: Mama Mia two fame, her most famous credit besides the

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Speaker 3: Pee's Christmas Special, Like, yeah, it was just like every

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Speaker 3: single person Josha Gabor whoa. It's just like it's really

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Speaker 3: fun revisiting stuff like that, even if they're not like

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Speaker 3: celebrities that connect for you, which certainly the Muppet Movie one,

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Speaker 3: none of them, I'm like, oh cool, But it is

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Speaker 3: cool seeing like something that is very wholesome and kind,

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Speaker 3: you know, drawing in so many people I know, right,

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Speaker 3: and it's like a cool time capsule, Like I feel

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Speaker 3: like I sort of get nineteen seventy nine ish, and

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Speaker 3: also just like I feel like the celebrity cameos are

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Speaker 3: very well paced in this too, where it's like at

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Speaker 3: the very end of the movie, you hit Orson Wells,

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Speaker 3: a person you never think will appear in am up

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Speaker 3: At movie, and there he is, and there he is. Wild.

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Speaker 2: It's giving them a contract to be rich and famous.

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Speaker 2: So cool. Let's take a quick break and then we'll

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Speaker 2: come back and recap it. Yeah, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 3: And we're back.

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Speaker 2: Walka waka waka waka. Here we go. This is the movie.

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Speaker 3: Here we go again, Here we go again. We walka

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Speaker 3: here can we get again? Wow? I Caitlyn, I have

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Speaker 3: to say I feel like I have not given due

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Speaker 3: attention to the fact that I hope that this opens

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Speaker 3: a Muppet era for you, because what I've found is

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Speaker 3: that like I saw Muppets Take Manhattan in theaters recently,

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Speaker 3: like they still pretty frequently reshow these movies for like

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Speaker 3: children's matinees, but still counts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, I want to see more

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Speaker 2: of the movies certainly, so I'll make it a point

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Speaker 2: to do that.

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Speaker 3: I'll come with anytime.

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Speaker 2: Excellent. In the meantime, here is the story for the

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Speaker 2: Muppet Movie nineteen seventy nine, which is framed as an

402
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Speaker 2: origin story for how the Muppets came together and got

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Speaker 2: their big break. So this is that story. We open

404
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Speaker 2: on the lot of a movie studio where there's a

405
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Speaker 2: private screening of the Muppet Movie that all the Muppets

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Speaker 2: have gathered to watch. So it's very meta. They're watching

407
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Speaker 2: the movie that they're in.

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Speaker 3: Which is the whole point. I mean, that's all of

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Speaker 3: the Muppet Show is like they're so good at doing

410
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Speaker 3: behind the scenes like showbiz stuff. It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the whole Gang is there. We've got Kermit

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Speaker 2: the Frog, We've got Miss Piggy, Fozzy Boo, Gonzo is there,

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Speaker 2: the Electric Mayhem, Statler and Waldorf. You know, all the

414
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Speaker 2: Muppets you know and love, except for Rizzo the Rat.

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Speaker 2: Where's he? What the fuck?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I wonder if this pre dates Rizzo.

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Speaker 3: I wonder, let's say, let's pick up with the Rizzo

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Speaker 3: the Rat Wikipedia page, because I did a fair amout

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Speaker 3: of research.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so wait, I just remember something that's a part

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Speaker 2: of my history. One of my favorite Muppets is Muppets

422
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Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz Oh.

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Speaker 3: Yes with a shanty, Yes, Yes, that's really good. That

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00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 3: was like one of the more modern ones that I

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Speaker 3: remember watching that because it like aired on TV.

426
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw it on DVD, but I loved it.

427
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 2: I thought it was hilarious. When I watched it in

428
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: like two thousand and six or.

429
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: Something, it was really cute. And this is okay, I

430
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 3: know that this is a very common whatever, it's a

431
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: birthday episode. You have to deal with it if you're listening,

432
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 3: it's a very common criticism. But the fact that Disney

433
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 3: bought Jim Henson Studios and the Muppets like ip I

434
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 3: want to say, well over ten years ago. Now it

435
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: was in two thousand and four, got twenty years ago. Yeah,

436
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 3: and they have yet to really do very much with it.

437
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: I mean not that there hasn't been attempts. They know

438
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: that there have been Disney Plus shows, some of which

439
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 3: have been good Netflix shows, stuff like that, but in

440
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 3: terms of a huge return to form, I feel like

441
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 3: the Jason Siegel movies were kind of it, and that

442
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: the rest have either been like under performed or been underpromoted,

443
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: or there's just I don't know. It makes me sad

444
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: that the Muppets are right there and they're so like

445
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 3: rife for I don't know, you look at like I

446
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 3: haven't seen it, but like how well meta comedy plays

447
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: in the general market, where like Deadpool just made a

448
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: billion dollars and he's fucking annoying, and meanwhile Kerment's rotting

449
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: like a whole cast of beloved characters that do meta

450
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 3: Hollywood commentary like historically better than most just not being

451
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: put to use at all. It just is a damn shame.

452
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: I checked and Rizzo the Rat does not debut till

453
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty, so that is why this is happening, because

454
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: I do know that at the end, which I can't

455
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 3: wait to talk about, the very very end of the

456
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 3: Muppet Movie where it's that huge crowd of Muppets sort

457
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: of doing the reprise of the Rainbow Connection that included

458
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: every single Muppet that had ever been canonically introduced up

459
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: until that time. So it was like two hundred and

460
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: fifty muppets and Rizzo just unfortunately did not quite exist yet. Also,

461
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 3: did you know that Rizzo is based on a character

462
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: in Midnight Cowboy?

463
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: Was it the Dustin Hoffman character?

464
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because his name is ratso Rizzo. Yeah, so

465
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: they made a rat named Rizzo, and.

466
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 2: That's wild.

467
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 3: We can't get into Rizzo lord today because he wasn't there,

468
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 3: but it's like, really, let that sink in.

469
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: Wall, especially because Midnight Cowboy, I think, is technically an

470
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: X rated movie, so for them to make a reference, well.

471
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was too gay for nineteen sixty nine.

472
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's amazing. I love that detail me too.

473
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 3: I'm smiling.

474
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: Anyway, So the Muppet start watching the movie, which opens

475
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: on Kermit in a swamp singing about the Rainbow Connection,

476
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: and he's approached in a boat by a guy named

477
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: Bernie who turns out to be a big Hollywood agent

478
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: who recognizes Kermit's talent and tells him about an audition

479
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 2: for frogs who are looking to become rich and famous,

480
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: and Kermit is intrigued by m HM on his way home,

481
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: where Kermit is riding a bicycle which is a pretty

482
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: awesome special effect.

483
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: Which had never happened before. Like, it was a huge moment.

484
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 3: I think it is considered one of the great moments

485
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: in cinema. And I don't even think I'm joking.

486
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: No, you're not, and it's true.

487
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

488
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: Anyway, he rides past a billboard advertising a restaurant, Doc

489
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 2: Hopper's French fried frog Legs, and Kermit is like, what

490
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: the fuck is that? Then he wanders into a bar

491
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: called El sleiezo Awsa where Fozzy Bear is doing prop comedy,

492
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: but the audience hates him, so Kermit jumps up on

493
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: stage to try to help him. They start dancing, which

494
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: is seen by Doc Hopper, the owner of that frog

495
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: leg restaurant, played by Charles Derning along with his minion

496
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 2: Max It's true, played by someone who is a Muppets person,

497
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: like he's a.

498
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's some inside baseball kind of guy. I honestly

499
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 3: it with all due respect Austin Pendleton. Oh oh, and

500
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: he also is the voice of Kermit's nephew.

501
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: Oh okay wow, so uh anyway, that's Max. He's a minion.

502
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: He's the the Kevin, if you will of the group.

503
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: They see Kermit dancing and Doc Hopper is like a wooga,

504
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: who's that Frog's that fack? Meanwhile, Kermit invites Fozzy to

505
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: come with him to Hollywood, so they set off in

506
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: Fozzy's uncle's studebaker. But Doc Copper is following them, and

507
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: he approaches Kermit to try to get him to be

508
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: the spokesperson, or rather spokes frog for his frog Leg restaurant.

509
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: But Kermit is like hard pass and he and Fozzy

510
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: continue on their way. You might even say they're moving

511
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: right along.

512
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 3: And I'm willing to put my feelings about Fozzy Bear

513
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: aside to say that this is an amazing song.

514
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: It's pretty good, yeah it is. After another run in

515
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: with Doc Copper, Kermit and Fozzy stop at a church

516
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: where a band of musical muppets called the Electric Mayhem

517
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: is playing We've Got Doctor Teeth, Janice Animal the others.

518
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: They're there and they're like, what brings you here? So

519
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,239
Speaker 2: Kermit gives them the screenplay for the Muppet movie that

520
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: we are currently watching so that the band can be

521
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: brought up to speed.

522
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: Hilarious joke, I know, And it's so like. I do

523
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 3: think that a lot of the gags that the Muppets

524
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 3: do would be annoying to me if it was not

525
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: Muppets doing.

526
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: Them, if it was Deadpool for example.

527
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: Again, yes, I think if you apply, because unfortunately I

528
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: don't like to say this, but they're pulling from the

529
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: same meta playbook. But when Deadpool does it, it's it

530
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: hits a little bit different, even if you like it,

531
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 3: you know. And I'm over thirty now, you know, I

532
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: can't be like, if you like Deadpool, shut the hell

533
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: like you know, who cares. But the Muppets do it better.

534
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: They do it better. I will say that I did

535
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: see Deadpool and Wolverine, and the jokes that I liked

536
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: the best were the like meta Hollywood commentary jokes about Disney,

537
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: jokes about MCU within the movie. Those are the jokes

538
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: I tended to find the funniest. So maybe I have

539
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: a small brain. I don't know, No, you.

540
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: Don't have a small brain. I think, like the thing

541
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 3: that really hits for me, I mean, I think it's

542
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: just easier and more fun to watch a puppet do anything. Sure,

543
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: but also I mean my at least my understanding, unless

544
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: I'm not fully understanding the business situation at the time,

545
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: is that like part of what bugs me about Deadpool

546
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: is that, I mean, first of all, he's annoying, right, fine,

547
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: but that that same company that's making the stuff he's

548
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 3: making fun of is profiting off of making fun of

549
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: the thing that where it's like, yeah, he's in the MCU,

550
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: the same people profit off of him talking about how

551
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: MCU movies suck. And at least the Muppets not that

552
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 3: they were like outsider, like they were underdogs. They were

553
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: unbelievably popular at this time, but they weren't owned by Disney.

554
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: You know, It's like they were still sort of like

555
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: doing their own thing, which is like maybe a little

556
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: more palatable and maybe just for me, funnier. But yeah,

557
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: without doubt, I love the Electric Mayhem. They're so good,

558
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 3: They're so fun. I love Janet. Don't you love Janet?

559
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: I don't know there's something Sorry, Janet, I'm dire again

560
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: because they weren't in Muppet Christmas, Carol. I don't know them,

561
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: and I don't really feel one way or the other

562
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: about them. Sorry. I also don't like the design of

563
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: most of those puppets.

564
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 3: Here's something that I was gonna bring up later, but

565
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: I think that something we talk about very frequently in

566
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 3: like children's media and animation is that there's a very

567
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: gendered approach to the design of the characters. And I

568
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: think that the Muppets are, like, they straddle kind of

569
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: an interesting line here where I feel like they are

570
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 3: but also are doing it less than normal where the

571
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: very comparatively few, because you do sort of have a

572
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: like smurf aspect to like, why is this Muppet world

573
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: so dominated by men? Like you know, and the women

574
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 3: you see are very you know, femme presenting. But I

575
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: appreciate that when there are women in fem muppet characters

576
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: that they can still look fucking weird, Like it doesn't

577
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: just look like a sexy adult woman. True, like we've

578
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: talked about in a million children and animated properties, where

579
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: it's like it's so absurd to think of a woman

580
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 3: looking not you know, Western beauty standard hot, which I

581
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 3: know it's like that is definitely arguable in the way

582
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: that Miss Piggy is presented and all this stuff. But like,

583
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: I like that Janice looks comparably weird to the rest

584
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: of the.

585
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 2: Band fair But yeah, I uh, even though I was

586
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: on a kick team named after them, I'm just like, eh, whatever.

587
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: I love Caitlin Lore, I love it. Where did you

588
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 3: guys play?

589
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: We played this park just outside of Harvard Square, so

590
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: every Sunday I would ride my bike to the park.

591
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: My team was so good, and one year we went

592
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: to the National Championships in Vegas. What Yeah?

593
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: How did I not know this?

594
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: That was the first time I ever went to Vegas.

595
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 2: I flew there from Boston.

596
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 3: I like, oh my god, that's so cool.

597
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 2: So I could not afford it because I just started

598
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: grad school, but I was like, this is my one

599
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: chance to go to Vegas. I have to. It was

600
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 2: my bikeball team.

601
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: That's so cool.

602
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so how did you all do? So it

603
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: was like a tournament of I forget how many teams,

604
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: but we definitely lost and were like eliminated in the

605
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: first round of games. But that was okay because I

606
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 2: just like hung out by the pool the rest more time.

607
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 3: To spend in Vegas. That rocks. Oh my god.

608
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fun little fact about me.

609
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: You are the most successful athlete. I know.

610
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: I should be in the Olympics.

611
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: You should, you should. Have you seen that TikTok trend?

612
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: Oh god, me stunning a thousand years old again? But

613
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: have you seen that TikTok trend that boils down to

614
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 3: Unfortunately I have not been admitted to the Paris Olympics

615
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. And it's just like people reposting them

616
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: sucking at high school sports.

617
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: No, I have not seen this.

618
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: It's mostly gymnastics in swimming clips of just like someone

619
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: accidentally belly flopping or like jumping on the balance beam

620
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: and getting their crotch just shattered. But pretty fun. I

621
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: love I love it.

622
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well.

623
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: Anyways, the Muppet movie, Am I right?

624
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: You are so right? So basically, now the Electric Mayhem

625
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 2: know what's happening and why Kermit and Fozzy are there,

626
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: and they want to help Kermit avoid Doc Copper, so

627
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: they paint Fozzy's Studa baker so that Doc Copper won't

628
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: recognize the car. Kermit then invites the band to accompany

629
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: them to Hollywood, but they decline, so Kermit and Fozzy

630
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: head out on the road again. This time they run

631
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: into Gonzo and his chicken wife. His chicken wife.

632
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: Okay, that is that's canon. That's okayre dating Cannon.

633
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: I see.

634
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, Camilla and Gonzo are end game. And it's interesting

635
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 3: because we just before this recorded or intro to Chicken Run,

636
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 3: and I feel like Camilla has the juice, she has

637
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: the riz to be treated like a Chicken run chicken

638
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 3: and she's and we should be talking about that.

639
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 2: Well, she comes up in my notes later on.

640
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: So thank god, thank god, me too. We'll circle back,

641
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 3: yes we will.

642
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: But Gonzo wants to be a movie star. We don't

643
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: know what Camilla wants because no one checks in with her.

644
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were not supposed to care.

645
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about what Gonzo wants, and so he

646
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 2: and Camilla join them On the trip to Hollywood. The

647
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: group stops at a used car lot to get a

648
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: bigger car. They also stop at a county fair where

649
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: Miss Piggy is competing in and wins a beauty pageant,

650
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: and the moment she sees Kermit, it's love at first sight.

651
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: She imagines her life with Kermit. They meet and Kermit

652
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: invites Miss Piggy to join him for ice cream, but

653
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: she mistakes this for an invitation to go with them

654
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 2: to Hollywood. But before they can really clear that up,

655
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: Gonzo flies away because he's holding a bunch of balloons.

656
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah he goes full up mud.

657
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Everyone piles in the car to catch him,

658
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: which they do after a near run in with Doc Copper,

659
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: who is still following them with his minion Max, although

660
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: Max is starting to have misgivings about this whole thing. Meanwhile,

661
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 2: Miss Piggy is lusting after Kermit, and she suggests they

662
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: stop so that she and Kermit can have a romantic dinner.

663
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: Steve Martin is their server.

664
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 3: Because it's nineteen seventy nine and these sorts of things

665
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 3: would happen.

666
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 2: Yes, she steps away to answer a call from her agent,

667
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: but then it seems like she leaves all together and

668
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: stands Kermit up, so he is sad, and then he

669
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: starts talking to the piano player Ralph, who sings a

670
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: song about women you can't live with them, you can't

671
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 2: live without him, and we're like, okay, feminist icon, Ralph.

672
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: Come on, Ralph, it's not right.

673
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: Then Kermit learns that Miss Piggy is gone because Doc

674
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: Hopper abducted her, and then he kidnaps Kermit too, and.

675
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 3: We're like, oh, no, is this going to be a

676
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 3: damsel in situation? And you're like, well, let them cook,

677
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 3: let them cook. Give it a second.

678
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Hopper has hired a Nazi doctor played by

679
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: mel Brooks.

680
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 3: Which I think is a pre existing character from mel Brooks.

681
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 3: I'm fairly certain he'd played versions of this character before,

682
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 3: probably and in fact, now that I say it, I

683
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: think he in fact played a version of this character

684
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: on The Muppet Show.

685
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, previously.

686
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: So I think this if you were seeing this in

687
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine, you were a Muppets fan, this would

688
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: have been a callback to mel Brooks playing said Nazi doctor,

689
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: which is like in his catalog of character as is

690
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 3: not unheard of.

691
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: Wherever, right, because the producers had already come out.

692
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: That's a good question. I think it might have. Yeah,

693
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 3: I think that that was the late sixties, Yeah, nineteen

694
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 3: sixty seven. Yeah, so this was I mean, this was

695
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 3: like if you were a Melbrooks fan, and obviously if

696
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: you live under a rock, he's a Jewish comedian, like

697
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: This was very much in his playbook. It's a little

698
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,919
Speaker 3: to story I take in the middle of a Muppet movie.

699
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 3: But I think even if you were a Muppet fan,

700
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: this would have been a callback to an episode he'd

701
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 3: already done with them.

702
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: Got it okay? In any case, he has been hired

703
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 2: by Doc Hopper to brainwash Kermit so that he will

704
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: agree to be in Doc Hopper's commercials. But Miss Piggy

705
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: breaks loose and does her signature hey yeah, chop kick

706
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: move iconic to attack the doctor and all of the minions,

707
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: and she saves Kermit, but then she immediately bails on

708
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: him because her agent calls and offers her a commercial.

709
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: This is why we love Miss Piggy so much, is

710
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 3: because she's trying to have it all and it's not

711
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: quite possible.

712
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: Exactly, but she's career first. She chooses career.

713
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: It's awesome. When she's like, well, I have to go.

714
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: I got a commercial. Yeah, He's like, yeah, she's awesome.

715
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: H So anyway, Kermit and friends head back on the road,

716
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: stands Miss Piggy plus Ralph, but they come upon Piggy

717
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: hitchhiking to Hollywood, so they pick her up again. Although

718
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: Kermit is a bit sour that she left him, and

719
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 2: fair enough, yeah, I'm excited to talk about their relationship

720
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: because for me, it's kind of all over the place.

721
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: But anyway, they're in the car, but it breaks down,

722
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: so they have to camp for the night in the

723
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: desert and they realize that they're probably not going to

724
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: make it to this Hollywood audition which is the next day,

725
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: and Kermit thinks it's all his fault and that he

726
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 2: has let his friends down. Plus Doc Copper has hired

727
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: a specialist to kill Kermit if he doesn't agree to

728
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: be in the commercials. So things are looking pretty low

729
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 2: for Kermit the Frog, but then the Electric Mayhem shows

730
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 2: up in their tour bus. They knew where to find

731
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: the group because they read the screenplay to the Muppet

732
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 2: movie that Kermit had left behind, so they show up

733
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: and they all set off in the bus. They get

734
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: pulled over by a cop who turns out to be

735
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: Doc Copper's minion Max, who wants to warn them about

736
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: this like frog killer. That's after Kermit and Kermit decides

737
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 2: to have a showdown with Doc Hopper because he's tired

738
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 2: of running away. He's gonna face his bully.

739
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

740
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: So they head to this ghost town where Kermit meets

741
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: doctor Bunsen, Honeydow and his assistant Beaker.

742
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: And at that point it's such a relief because you're like,

743
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 3: is Baker going to be in the movie, and you know,

744
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 3: two ors of the way in, they're like, not to worry,

745
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 3: Beaker is on the way.

746
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: M hmm, yep, and he's like me, me, me, me me.

747
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 3: And you're like, what a legend. And something I love

748
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 3: about Beaker that I feel like in the last ten

749
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 3: years we've really lost sight of is that I don't

750
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 3: need to know anything more about Beaker than I already know.

751
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 3: I feel like in the modern context, they're like, Okay,

752
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 3: let's do a very serious limited series about how Beeker

753
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: came to me. Me Me, me me, And it's like,

754
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 3: I actually don't I don't need to know. I just

755
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 3: feel like Baker comes through to me so clearly that

756
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: it's not a big deal.

757
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: We need no more information, say no more, I get it.

758
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: In any case, doctor Bunsen and Beaker have developed these

759
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: insta grow pills that make anything temporarily huge, and we're like, hmm,

760
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: wonder how that's gonna pay off?

761
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 3: This is also echoed in Minion's one when Kevin gets

762
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: so big, Oh my gosh, you're right, whoa. But in

763
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 3: this case animal gets so big and yeah, it all

764
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 3: sort of yeah comes back true.

765
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: So what happens is Doc Hopper shows up and there's

766
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: this like cowboy standoff thing between him and Kermit, and

767
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 2: Doc Hopper is about to kill Kermit, but then Animal,

768
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: who has eaten one of those instagrow pills, is suddenly

769
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: huge and it scares Doc Hopper and his minions away.

770
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 2: So the Muppets are free to travel the rest of

771
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: the way to Hollywood, and they enter the office of

772
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: a producer named lou Lord played by Orson Wells.

773
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 3: Awesome, just so awesome.

774
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: It's so funny because Kermit's like, uh, we're here to

775
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: be rich and famous, and then Orson Wells, you know,

776
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: he looks very stony faced and stoic, and he's.

777
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 3: He's like Orson Wells, like he's like very he is

778
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 3: old Hollywood.

779
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 2: It's awesome, true, and you think he's gonna be like,

780
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: who the fuck are you guys? Get out of here,

781
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 2: but instead he's like my assistant played by Cloris Leachman

782
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: drop the rich and famous contract and we're like, yay,

783
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: they didn't even have to audition. That's how good the

784
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: Muppets are.

785
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, Orson Wells, I mean Orson Wells could spot raw Is.

786
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 3: It's just like, ugh, it's so awesome.

787
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he is pretty much real life lou Grade,

788
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: who is the producer who financed the Muppet Movie in

789
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: real life. So another meta joke here. Then we cut

790
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: to the Muppets starting production on the Muppet Movie. They're

791
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: doing the reprise of the Rainbow Connection, and then we

792
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 2: flash forward back to the screening room where all of

793
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: the Muppets are watching the finished movie. And that's the

794
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 2: end of the Muppet Movie. So let's take another quick

795
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: break and we'll come back to discuss.

796
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 3: And we're back before we jump into the nitty gritty discussion,

797
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 3: I just like I watched this movie early this year,

798
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: which normally, I mean I've watched it like maybe once

799
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: every five years, but earlier this year happened to get

800
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 3: into a Muppet hole because I found out that my

801
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 3: boyfriend had never seen most of like really any Muppet

802
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 3: movie before. He hadn't seen them like any Muppet movies

803
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: or the Muppet Show, and so I was like Oh,

804
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: this is good. And then at the New Beverly they

805
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 3: were doing an afternoon matinee of Muppets Take Manhattan, and

806
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 3: it all just felt very kis meant, and so I

807
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 3: was like showing him the Great Muppet Ouvra, and we

808
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 3: watched this movie. And so I've been thinking, They've just

809
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: been on my mind a lot this year, and I

810
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 3: really really love the end scene to this movie. I

811
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 3: think it's so like poignant and so special where I

812
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: don't know anythink this happens like pretty frequently with the

813
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 3: Muppets Gang, where they're always pursuing this dream, they're always underdogs,

814
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 3: and any other movies it's even more emphasized that they

815
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: are these underdogs who want to make it big, and

816
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 3: then eventually they do after Kermit has an existential crisis,

817
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: which I also love. But how at the end of

818
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 3: this movie, they like get everything they ever wanted, they

819
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 3: like achieve this dream, and then it all collapses and

820
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 3: it's essentially like a return to their underdogs again. They

821
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 3: like have gotten everything they ever wanted, and yet for

822
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: some reason their set collapses and they've completely failed and

823
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 3: like their movie isn't going to happen. And then it's

824
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: still okay, and it's like they're just going to start

825
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: pursuing it again and somehow this like grand failure at

826
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: the end of the movie is all a part of

827
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 3: what the plan was the whole time. And then they

828
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 3: turned to the camera and you know, it's like there's

829
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 3: this very reassuring, pure wonderful thing. I can't think of

830
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: many movies that do that. One of my favorite movies

831
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 3: does School of Rock, where like these scrappy, this scrappy

832
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 3: group like gets to the very time, they get further

833
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: than you would ever imagine, and then they still fail

834
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 3: and it's like they're still reveling in like the joy

835
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: of that failure and how it brought them together. And

836
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 3: I just think that's really beautiful. It's one of my

837
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 3: favorite things about movies at all is that that life

838
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: is full of these setbacks, and that is also part

839
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 3: of what makes life very interesting. So I love that

840
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 3: this movie ends on a like a huge win with

841
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: the like Orson Wells thing and they get to make

842
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: their movie, but then you know, they kind of don't,

843
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 3: but then they sort of do.

844
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: But then they do because they're watching the movie that

845
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: they made in the screening.

846
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: Room exactly exactly. I really love the sequence where the

847
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 3: set falls and they don't panic because after the set

848
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 3: falls there's something beautiful and the rainbow comes in and

849
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 3: it's all corny, but I just like it. I don't know.

850
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 3: Both times I've seen it this year, it made me

851
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 3: very emotional because that's so cool and it feels very

852
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 3: connected to just general Jim Henson lore. I'm really interested

853
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 3: in Jim Henson lore and like how many false starts

854
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: and how challenging it was for him to get even

855
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 3: that far in making Muppet stuff, where I think most

856
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 3: people thought he would have talked out at creating Sesame

857
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 3: Street and that there was no adult market for what

858
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 3: he was doing, and just the sort of like stops

859
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 3: and starts and really trying to make it happen, and

860
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: this movie being such an amazing example of like, no,

861
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 3: it really really worked, but it was still punctuated by

862
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 3: all these failures. I just love it. I find it

863
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 3: very inspiring and sweet and just like a cool universal thing.

864
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 3: I love them Uppets.

865
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 2: Did I tell you so? There was this show that

866
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: would happen in La called Comedian Cinema Club that we

867
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 2: would occasionally participate in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so basically

868
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: it was comedians loosely recreating the plots of specific movies,

869
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: but it was like a lot of improv and you

870
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: were just sort of doing it from memory.

871
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 3: It was so fun.

872
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 2: It was super fun. And one time when I was

873
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: doing it, we were doing the movie Labyrinth. Oh I

874
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: remember that, and someone from the Jim Henson Studio in

875
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 2: La came to watch that show and then they invited

876
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 2: the whole cast of comedians who performed on the show

877
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: to the Jim Henson Studio. So we all went and

878
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: like all like private tour. Yeah, it was super cool.

879
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: It's a small, tiny little studio, but it's in all

880
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: these like cool little bungalows.

881
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I've passed it a million times. And I

882
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 3: think it's closing too, which is really sad.

883
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: Ah, that would be so sad. Yeah, but yeah, that

884
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: you like go in different rooms. This is a lot

885
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 2: of like you know, production offices, but there's a lot

886
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: of like familiar models of the Muppets and other you know,

887
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: Sesame Street characters and things like that. They're like, wow,

888
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 2: look at that little guy. Anyway, it was fun.

889
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 3: It really is incredible how much of an impact and

890
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 3: like Jim Henson. I something I would really I'll send

891
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 3: the links to so we can include it in the

892
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 3: notes to this episode. Is there is a real I mean,

893
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 3: there's been a lot written about Jim Henson's life, and

894
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 3: I don't mean to single any single thing out, but

895
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 3: the thing that was easiest for me to consume and

896
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed was a few years back, probably a

897
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 3: while ago, now defunct Land, one of my favorite YouTube channels,

898
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 3: did an incredible multi part analysis and documentary on Jim

899
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 3: Henson's life and legacy. And he was an extremely flawed person,

900
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 3: as anyone is, but just the fact that in like

901
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 3: such a short amount of time he was able to

902
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 3: make such an incredible impact is just really special and

903
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 3: really cool. And I don't know, I know, it's like

904
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: not part of what this show is to be like

905
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: this man, but like it's really it's really fun and

906
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 3: I feel like that as we'll get into Also, for me,

907
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: very much applies to Frank Oz, who is thankfully still

908
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: with us and has been a fixture in so much

909
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 3: iconic work in the last you know, fifty sixty years,

910
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 3: especially because he's miss Piggy and like all of the

911
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 3: stuff that comes with that. So I don't know, do

912
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 3: we want to start with Miss Piggy.

913
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 2: Let's start with Miss Piggy.

914
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 3: Now, listen, here's the thing. Is Miss Piggy an emotionally

915
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: abusive partner M I would say maybe, yes, yes, but

916
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 3: I love her.

917
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: I would say, she's also physically abusive at times, and

918
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: she's not good at respecting boundaries.

919
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree. I think on paper it doesn't

920
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 3: look good for her. But I feel like Miss Piggy

921
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 3: is a character like that is so rooted in camp

922
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 3: and satire and catharsis. It is like this is being

923
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 3: consumed by children, and I certainly hope that young fems

924
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: were not karate chopping their male counterparts after this. But

925
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: I also don't think that a lot of people are

926
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 3: mapping their relationship goals on Kermit and Miss Piggy. I

927
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 3: don't know. I could be wrong about that, but because

928
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 3: the Muppets have historically been consumed by children and adults,

929
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 3: it feels to me like Miss Piggy is a character

930
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 3: that is like rooted in subversion and in camp and

931
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 3: doing something you wouldn't expect, and in some ways that

932
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 3: beat to beat it does not always hold up. But

933
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 3: I really appreciate the spirit of her character where she's

934
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 3: rooted in this, you know, like can't be There's a

935
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 3: great video essay that I know we've both watched by

936
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 3: be Kind Rewind, who is just like so wonderful about

937
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 3: the history of who Miss Piggy is and how rooted

938
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,439
Speaker 3: she is in all of these like Hollywood divas of

939
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:38,240
Speaker 3: the twentieth century, especially old Hollywood divas, and this very

940
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 3: glamorous woman trying to have it all, who's very over

941
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 3: the top and all of this stuff, and like there's

942
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 3: so many references to past movie and movies and history

943
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 3: to who she is at her core. What I really

944
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 3: love about Mss Piggy is that she is a character

945
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 3: who very much wants a career and wants success and

946
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 3: wants a romantic relationship. And I feel like that is like,

947
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: at its course, something we do not get very much of.

948
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 3: We're very often presented with someone who is very motivated

949
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 3: towards one or the other, and it's a very common

950
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 3: experience to want both and even as over the top.

951
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 3: And yes, do I think that, You know, It's like

952
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 3: if I'm writing a dissertation on do I think Kermit

953
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 3: and Miss Piggy have a healthy relationship, no, But I

954
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: think that the spirit of what she's doing of like

955
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 3: trying to have a relationship where she can love and

956
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 3: feel loved and pursue a dream aggressively. It's like, it's cool,

957
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 3: it's rare, and I feel like in most situations, especially

958
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 3: from the group of women in Stars that she's pulling from,

959
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 3: these people don't often get to have it all. They

960
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 3: get one or the other and it's their tragic downfall

961
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 3: either way. And Miss Piggy, in the way that this

962
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 3: universe resets, resets and resets, she does have it all

963
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 3: for the most part, and she's often striving towards one

964
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 3: thing or the other, but you know that there is

965
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 3: a certain amount of security and like she will achieve

966
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 3: her dream, she will have the relationship that she wants.

967
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 3: And I think like it's weirdly cathartic and nice, especially

968
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 3: because she is so intensely herself where you know, and

969
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 3: in order to be loved, she doesn't have to compromise

970
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 3: who she is, and I really appreciate that about her.

971
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, bet to Beat it's imperfect, extremely but that's.

972
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: Also cool because so many characters who are women are

973
00:57:55,400 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: presented in this pretty like one dimensional way, is is

974
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: they don't have any flaws because like the men writing

975
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: these characters sure haven't given enough thought to the women

976
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: they're writing that they don't seem like fully formed people

977
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: with strengths and flaws. But both in her pursuit of

978
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: like success in show business and her relationship with Kermit,

979
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: like she's fucking up a lot of the time. Yeah,

980
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 2: and that's also refreshing to see a woman not be

981
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 2: perfect again and again.

982
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 3: And still be loved. M However, I do think, especially

983
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 3: because this is like fairly early into Miss Piggy's tenure,

984
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, And I know that the character has

985
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 3: been revised to sort of meet the expectations of the

986
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 3: time repeatedly up until about almost ten years ago in

987
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, when this shitty ABC mockumentary show was being

988
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 3: released in twenty fifteen, and Miss Piggy wrote an op

989
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 3: ed for Time Magazine called Miss Piggy, Why I Am

990
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: a feminist pig? And this character has been revised and

991
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 3: updated so many times to sort of meet whatever cultural

992
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 3: moment is required in a way that feels for the

993
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 3: most per genuine And I think that in seventy nine.

994
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 3: She is very subversive, but also like, yeah, at every

995
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 3: phase of Kermit and Piggy's relationship, Kermit does feel sort

996
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 3: of bullied into their relationship. Yes, every time I see

997
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 3: a troubling moment with Kermit and Piggy, I'm sort of

998
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 3: like they should go to couples counseling. I'm sure they

999
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 3: have canonically at least once, because it does seem like

1000
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 3: he loves.

1001
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 2: Her sometimes and other times he's like, get away from

1002
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: me or so That's why I think their relationship is

1003
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 2: all over the place, at least in the confines of

1004
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 2: this movie. Right, We don't meet Miss Piggy until about

1005
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: forty minutes into the movie. Up until then, I mean,

1006
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 2: we see Janice briefly and as a problem, but other

1007
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: than that, there are no other muppets of a marginalized

1008
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 2: gender until Miss Piggy is introduced again about forty minutes

1009
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: into the movie. She wins the beauty pageant. She sees

1010
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 2: Kermit and is immediately smitten. She imagines her whole life

1011
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 2: with him. Kermitt has no such dream sequenced as far

1012
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 2: as any like longing to be with Piggy forever. He

1013
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 2: notices her, but it's not like he is. He doesn't

1014
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 2: reciprocate this like crush right away. And we have also

1015
01:00:55,440 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 2: seen Kermit invite every other muppet that he has encountered

1016
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 2: on this trip to Hollywood, including muppets that he barely

1017
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 2: interacts with, such as Sweetums, who is the like person

1018
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 2: sized muppet at the car dealership which I left out

1019
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 2: of the recap. But they like barely even talk to.

1020
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: Him, but still a relevant character, yes, and.

1021
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 2: Also so sad when they're like, do you want to come?

1022
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 2: And then he runs away to like grab his suitcase,

1023
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 2: but then they thought he was like rejecting them, so

1024
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: they drove away, and then he comes back to be

1025
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 2: like wait.

1026
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 3: Not too dissimilar from what happens with Miss Piggy, where

1027
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 3: like in this case, miss Piggy misunderstands. I mean they

1028
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 3: both misunderstand.

1029
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: Right, It's just that Sweetems needs to learn to use

1030
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 2: his words a little bit better. But what struck me

1031
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 2: about the Miss Piggy situation is that, like, why wouldn't Kermit,

1032
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 2: who knows that Miss Piggy has aspirations of becoming a

1033
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: performer and a star and all of this, why wouldn't

1034
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: he invite her along and instead she invites herself along.

1035
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: And is there a gendered thing to that or is

1036
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 2: it just that miss Piggy has made Kermit uncomfortable, which

1037
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 2: we also saw her do.

1038
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 3: That was sort of my take on it, whereas like

1039
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 3: I think she did make him uncomfortable. I don't know.

1040
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 3: It's so hard because it's like, at this point, what

1041
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 3: are we doing. We're pathologizing the muppets.

1042
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 2: Well that's our job.

1043
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 3: I guess so, and we have to live with that.

1044
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know. I sort of was going

1045
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 3: back and forth on that where maybe that is like

1046
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,240
Speaker 3: part of why their relationship is so interesting, where it

1047
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 3: is like a little bit confusing of like does he

1048
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 3: not want her to come? Is he kind of like

1049
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 3: freaked out by having a romantic feeling? Like which is it?

1050
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 3: And I honestly, I mean, on this viewing, I wasn't

1051
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 3: totally sure. Where it doesn't seem like he's disinterested or

1052
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 3: like does not like her. It seems like they get

1053
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: along well. But I don't know. I mean, there's especially

1054
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 3: in a like an ambiguous romantic interaction where I feel

1055
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 3: like there's the feeling of like, well, they wouldn't want

1056
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 3: to come with me? Like they're so cool, they wouldn't,

1057
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 3: you know, And it feels like there's an element of that.

1058
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 3: But then I think you can also look at it

1059
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 3: on the flip side of like she is kind of

1060
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: pressuring him into taking her along.

1061
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1062
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 3: I think that there's a lot of different ways to

1063
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 3: interpret that interaction. And that's part of why her relationship

1064
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 3: is so like not healthy but definitely compelling.

1065
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 2: Right well, because after that she has like invited herself along.

1066
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,919
Speaker 2: She gets in the car and then is like, let's

1067
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: have a romantic dinner, and she keeps being like flaky

1068
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 2: and she leaves, and sometimes that's because she's been abducted

1069
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: by Doc Hopper, but she'll often, you know, as we've said,

1070
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 2: she won't hesitate to take a call from her agent,

1071
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: and she always seems to be putting if there's a

1072
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 2: career opportunity that comes up, she'll put that first over Kermit.

1073
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: Right So, up until that point, it seems like Kermit

1074
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 2: is just sort of going along with this. He doesn't

1075
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: seem as enthusiastic about spending time with Miss Piggy as

1076
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 2: she feels about spending time with him. But then when

1077
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 2: she leaves and he thinks that she has stood him up.

1078
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 2: He's heartbroken. And then there's that scene with Ralph where

1079
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, man, stay away from women, that's my motto, right,

1080
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 2: and then he sings the song about how you can't

1081
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 2: live with him, you can't live without him, and we're.

1082
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 3: Like right, Rolf, and you're like, Ralph, you are being counterproductive.

1083
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:53,919
Speaker 3: And again, I think that this is part of why

1084
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 3: Kermit and Piggy are so interesting and why I can

1085
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 3: understand the argument for kids are seeing this movie they

1086
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 3: shouldn't witness this like kind of unhealthy dynamic. But I

1087
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 3: also think that when you're a kid, I don't know,

1088
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 3: this just does feel different to me in tone than

1089
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 3: like when you're a kid and you see a princess movie.

1090
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 3: It just feels more authoritative in the way that the

1091
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 3: values of the movie are presented than a Muppet movie.

1092
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 3: I could be wrong about that. I don't know. I

1093
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: enjoy watching these movies more than I enjoy watching a

1094
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 3: Princess movie, because those feel very firmly for children and

1095
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 3: very like here is the value, here is the sin,

1096
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 3: here is the choice, and like in this it's sort

1097
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 3: of presented more like, eh, well, you know you know,

1098
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 3: like it's so silly in a way that I think, weirdly,

1099
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 3: a lot of children's movies aren't silly, where I think

1100
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 3: that both of them are kind of making unhealthy, ego

1101
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 3: driven choices throughout this relationship. And so it's hard, at

1102
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 3: least in my view, it's like kind of hard to

1103
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 3: take a side, yeah, because I do think that Miss

1104
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 3: Piggy can absolutely be a bully, and I also think

1105
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 3: that Kermit can kind of be like, I don't know,

1106
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I Miss Piggy is certainly the more aggressive

1107
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 3: party in the relationship. But you also see moment where

1108
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 3: Kermit has not expressed a lot of interest in her

1109
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 3: and she walks away and then he's like, well, wait

1110
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 3: to sick you, why don't you want to be my girlfriend?

1111
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 3: And you're like, well, you kind of rejected her.

1112
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 2: You know, that's the thing with Kermit. He needs to

1113
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 2: express He needs to learn how to understand and express

1114
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: his feelings more effectively, because he's.

1115
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 3: Either like get him.

1116
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:45,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm gonna get Kermit's ass right now, ready,

1117
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 2: uh huh No, he just like if he is interested

1118
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 2: or if he is not interested, he needs to communicate

1119
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 2: those things more clearly. But he doesn't. He doesn't seem

1120
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: to have any you know what. Kermit needs to grow

1121
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 2: a spine, and he needs to express his feelings more

1122
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 2: clearly and communicate better.

1123
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 3: Frogs even have spines, they do.

1124
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 2: They're vertebrae, yes they do. Okay, sorry, yeah, they're they're amphibians,

1125
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 2: which are yeah, okay, a little science. I'm not I'm

1126
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 2: doctor Bunsen, honeydew, I'm I'm just missus Baker over here

1127
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: being like really really yeah, so no, no, amphibians have vertebrae,

1128
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 2: so they have spines, okay, but Kerman doesn't, and he

1129
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 2: needs to freaking grow one and learn how to communicate

1130
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 2: more effectively because when he's aloof, I don't know what

1131
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 2: that means for how he's feeling, when he's uncomfortable, he's

1132
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't say that. I don't know how

1133
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 2: what he's feeling, and neither does Miss Piggy.

1134
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 3: So and again I think that that is like what

1135
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 3: is compelling about their relationship, as these are two very

1136
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 3: emotionally immature characters who are almost the perfect storm of

1137
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 3: emotional immaturity because the ways in which they're emotionally immature,

1138
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 3: they can't understand the other where like Miss Piggy is

1139
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 3: so straightforward, and when she doesn't receive straightforward feedback in return,

1140
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 3: she's either hurt or like, Okay, I'm going to move on,

1141
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 3: and Kermit is so it seems like kind of like

1142
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 3: compartmentalized and like not sure how to express emotion and

1143
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:40,680
Speaker 3: affection for whatever canonical reason. But I also feel like

1144
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,600
Speaker 3: it's playing on at least in the opinion of or

1145
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 3: in the view of the writers who are majority men.

1146
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 3: Which is important to keep in mind is that this is,

1147
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 3: you know, men of I'm assuming varying emotional maturity. They're

1148
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: interpreting how men interpret emotions versus women, and it is

1149
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 3: kind of this binary view. But it does seem like

1150
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 3: these are two characters who, at least in my opinion,

1151
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,520
Speaker 3: and it seems like in the writer's opinions, do genuinely

1152
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 3: care for each other and do love each other. But

1153
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 3: the reason that they are like in this it's different

1154
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 3: than Barbie and Ken in that way because like Barbie

1155
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 3: and Ken, at least outside of the Gretigeric lore, are

1156
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 3: kind of perfect, and so it's like almost a more

1157
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 3: ambiguous loop. But with Kermit and Piggy, you almost understand

1158
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 3: why there's no conclusion because they don't necessarily grow significantly

1159
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 3: as individuals, where Miss Piggy is always you know, it's

1160
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 3: like they just never go to therapy, and so they're

1161
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 3: in this infinity loop of like we love each other,

1162
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 3: but we cannot adequately express it to the other, so

1163
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 3: it never feels completely secure. Mm hmmm, and that sucks.

1164
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 2: It does. I also think it's worth noting again because

1165
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 2: we've brought this up, but the person who brings Miss

1166
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 2: Piggy to life is a man. It's frank Oz.

1167
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 3: It's like Shakespearean basically how this all plays out right.

1168
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 2: So it's frank Oz who both voices Miss Piggy and

1169
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 2: is the like puppeteer for her. And he was also

1170
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 2: the person who had a big hand in kind of

1171
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 2: developing hand, a literal hand.

1172
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 3: It's his hand, Kalin.

1173
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 2: He shoves his hand up, okay, inside her and brings

1174
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 2: her to life relatable.

1175
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 3: Much No, uh, I mean such things have happened.

1176
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, anyway, he was the person to largely develop

1177
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 2: her as a charter. And that video essay that you

1178
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: mentioned entitled Miss Piggy Camp and the Death of the

1179
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 2: Movie Star, the you know, be kind rewind video Essay

1180
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 2: dives into this a lot as far as frank Oz

1181
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 2: brings this character to life, but it's like a man

1182
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 2: interpreting a woman's behavior, and so there are examples of

1183
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 2: like Miss Piggy being quote unquote hysterical, which is like, okay,

1184
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 2: is that a man's interpretation of how a woman behaves.

1185
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 2: But there's also this element of like she is mimicking

1186
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 2: these like old Hollywood stars who have a tendency to

1187
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 2: like be very melodramatic in their performances in movies, and

1188
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 2: like that's who Miss Piggy's emulating.

1189
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 3: I feel like you could make the argument that Miss Piggy,

1190
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 3: even though it seems like frank Oz initially is like uncomfortable,

1191
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 3: really takes this on, is a drag character, like fair,

1192
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 3: because she pulls so heavily from this era of exaggerated

1193
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 3: femininity in esthetics and behavior. Miss Piggy to me seems

1194
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 3: like frank Oz not fully understanding that he's performing a

1195
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 3: drag character.

1196
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, But yeah, I agree because there's this

1197
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 2: element of her character which again, like frank Oz helped

1198
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 2: to develop, where you know, she acts like this diva,

1199
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 2: she's mimicking these old Hollywood stars. She's putting on an

1200
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 2: air of like sophistication in class that she doesn't actually

1201
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:46,719
Speaker 2: have because like, deep down, Miss Piggy is a farm girl.

1202
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 2: She's a farm pig. He keeps calling her a truck

1203
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 2: driver who will like beat your ass if you piss

1204
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 2: her off.

1205
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 3: Right, which is just like another way of saying, like

1206
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 3: a woman who comes from like humble beginnings, who has

1207
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 3: been launched to this level of glamor and fame that

1208
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:11,600
Speaker 3: requires a level of docility and femininity that would be

1209
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 3: impossible with the amount of effort and determination it would

1210
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 3: take to get there in the first place, which is

1211
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 3: the situation with So I mean, that's what I love

1212
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 3: about be kind Rewind's video essay is that it's so

1213
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 3: clearly demonstrated of like where there Miss Piggy's character is

1214
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 3: pulling from and how it feels like in conversation with

1215
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 3: Pearl Yeah or recent movie which is also referenced in

1216
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 3: that video essay, But just about how anyone who is

1217
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 3: presented to you in the way Miss Piggy is on

1218
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 3: such a large platform, you know, historically would have had

1219
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 3: to either come from privilege and money or really had

1220
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 3: to work their ass off to get to the top,

1221
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 3: and often when you see women and fems get to

1222
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 3: the top, the expectation is to be like, oh, I

1223
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 3: don't know, and like Miss Piggy does that in a

1224
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 3: way that is obviously put on, and I love that.

1225
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,639
Speaker 3: I don't know it just I wonder. I mean, Frank

1226
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 3: Oz is in his eighties, so who fucking knows, But yeah,

1227
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 3: Miss Piggy does feel like one of our iconic drag

1228
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 3: characters to.

1229
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,839
Speaker 2: Be mm hmm, definitely. I want to talk about the scene.

1230
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 2: We touched on it a little bit, but just to

1231
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:33,759
Speaker 2: kind of reiterate the scene where Kermit and Miss Piggy

1232
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 2: are both being held captive and she's saying to Kermit like, oh,

1233
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 2: I know you have a great plan to rescue us,

1234
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 2: and it seems like it's going to be up to

1235
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 2: Kermit to save Miss Piggy, you know, that classic trope

1236
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 2: of a woman needs to be saved by a man.

1237
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 2: She's expecting that this will happen, but Kermit does nothing

1238
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 2: to save them. He gets put in an even more

1239
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 2: compromise situation where he's about to be brainwashed and it's

1240
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 2: Miss Piggy is the one who has to break free.

1241
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 2: From her restraints. She fights off all the bad guys.

1242
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 2: There's like a half a dozen guys that she beats

1243
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 2: the shit out of, and then she saves Kermit from

1244
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 2: being brainwashed and then puts the big bad of this scene,

1245
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 2: which is the mel Brooks Nazi doctor character, puts him

1246
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 2: in the brainwashing machine and then he turns into a

1247
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 2: frog or something, and then she bails onto him, and

1248
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 2: then she's like, by Kermit, I booked a commercial. See

1249
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 2: you later.

1250
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 3: It's so hard to not be on her side here

1251
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 3: because it's like she subverts everything that you expect the

1252
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 3: damsel in distress, because that is how she's set up

1253
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 3: as a damsel in distress, I feel like, very knowingly

1254
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 3: by the writers. And then she does everything that a

1255
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 3: damsel in distress doesn't do, which is liberate herself and

1256
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 3: save the man, and saves the man who traditionally would

1257
01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 3: save her, and then bails on him romantically as well.

1258
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 3: Like it's just so hard to like, it's very hard

1259
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 3: for me to apply the like Miss Piggy is an

1260
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 3: unhealthy romantic character, which is like basically true, but because

1261
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:12,719
Speaker 3: this is so meta, like the point of this scene

1262
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 3: is that Miss Piggy is doing everything a damsel in

1263
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 3: distress doesn't do. She frees her and the man via

1264
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 3: kung fu violence and then gets a professional opportunity and

1265
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 3: bails on him. And while Kermit is well within his

1266
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 3: rights to be hurt by that, you know, even though

1267
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:35,719
Speaker 3: you're right, he doesn't know how to emotionally communicate because

1268
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:40,760
Speaker 3: they're just both so emotionally fucking stunted. But I just

1269
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 3: I love that scene. Miss Piggy does everything wrong and

1270
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 3: it makes you love her more, and it like, I

1271
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 3: feel like by her being such a compelling and fun

1272
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 3: character to watch and watching her do everything quote unquote

1273
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 3: wrong or just like not what you expect someone in

1274
01:16:56,640 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 3: that situation to do, it almost makes it easier, you know,

1275
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 3: like when I was a kid watching this to call

1276
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 3: into question like, well, why does the opposite usually happen?

1277
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 3: If I love it so much when it doesn't happen,

1278
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 3: Like it's a cool sort of entry point to analyze

1279
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 3: some of the common movie tropes that you've seen a

1280
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 3: million times in a lot of kids movies up until

1281
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 3: that point, Like Miss Piggy, she is cooking, she's doing

1282
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 3: something true.

1283
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 2: You know who isn't doing something? Camilla Lawzy oh, oh,

1284
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 2: well that too, Camilla.

1285
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 3: Yes, Camilla should be doing MOA.

1286
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 2: Yes. Do you have anything else to say about Miss

1287
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 2: Piggy before we move on?

1288
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that another thing that has come

1289
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 3: up with Miss Piggy over the years, not necessarily within

1290
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 3: the scope of this movie, is just like her I

1291
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 3: think rightfully earned place in feminist canon, and just like

1292
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 3: the idea of an imperfect woman be it this icon

1293
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 3: and a very ambitious woman being an icon. And also

1294
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:08,639
Speaker 3: she's kind of Delulu, and like you know, I think

1295
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 3: every muppets raw talent besides Kermit, can kind of be

1296
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 3: called into question. And I kind of love that too,

1297
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 3: where like, yeah, that's who succeeds in Hollywood is like

1298
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,679
Speaker 3: one person who's actually good every once in a while,

1299
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 3: and then like forty people who basically suck, especially Fozzy Bear.

1300
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 2: I would even question Kermit's talent there, I said it.

1301
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,080
Speaker 3: I just feel like Rainbow Connection, he did that off

1302
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 3: the top of the dome.

1303
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 2: Come on, But was his voice good?

1304
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 3: Wow? Jim Henson's spinning in his grave.

1305
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,760
Speaker 2: Well, sorry, these are just my thoughts.

1306
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 3: And you said it, you said what you said. I

1307
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,480
Speaker 3: think the only thing I bring up with Miss Piggy canonically,

1308
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 3: is the way that her and Kermit's physical size is

1309
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 3: used as comedy is some thing that I think has

1310
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 3: been discussed quite a lot. I don't really feel qualified too,

1311
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 3: because I just haven't done enough research on it to

1312
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 3: intelligently comment on. But I know that in the show

1313
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 3: leading up to this movie, not as much actually in

1314
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 3: this movie. But I think that their difference, like Miss

1315
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 3: Piggy is just physically bigger than Kermit because she is

1316
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,640
Speaker 3: a pig and he is a frog, right, It's just true,

1317
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 3: But that at different points in their relationship that the

1318
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 3: difference in their size has been called attention to in

1319
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 3: a way that has not always been sensitive. But I

1320
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 3: think that there's also been a lot of thoughtful reclaimings

1321
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 3: of their dynamic. Just all that to say, like we're

1322
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,559
Speaker 3: just talking about Miss Piggy and Kurbit in the scope

1323
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,840
Speaker 3: of this movie, there's a lot of conversation that has

1324
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:53,759
Speaker 3: gone on about their relationship. Outside of that, I suppose

1325
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,599
Speaker 3: to acknowledge that I don't feel able to intelligently comment

1326
01:19:56,680 --> 01:20:00,639
Speaker 3: on it at this time. Sure, and now we've entered

1327
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 3: the Camilla zone. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about

1328
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 3: Camilla because she is, like, I feel like a very underrated,

1329
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 3: underdisgusted Muppet character because she's been around since nineteen seventy eight.

1330
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, and this is honestly the first time I've

1331
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 2: noticed her in any Muppet thing.

1332
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:26,679
Speaker 3: In't it a shame?

1333
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:32,840
Speaker 2: It's a shame. So she's Gonzo's his wife. She is

1334
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:37,200
Speaker 2: his chicken wife or girlfriend or partner of some kind.

1335
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 3: They're committed. It seems like they're committed. Yeah, and they

1336
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,759
Speaker 3: seems like they're monogamous.

1337
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: Too, Yeah, I would guess so. Yeah, But wouldn't it

1338
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,839
Speaker 2: be funny if they had an open marriage?

1339
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 3: Good for Camilla?

1340
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 2: And we're practicing ethical non monogamy anyway. So she does

1341
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 2: not speak English. She clucked, And it seems as though

1342
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 2: only Gonzo understands her, or at least he's the only

1343
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,519
Speaker 2: one to talk to her, which means that it's really

1344
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 2: hard for us to know anything about her as a character.

1345
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 2: We don't see her interacting with anyone else. Everyone else

1346
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:20,519
Speaker 2: ignores her, No one acknowledges her as a character, and

1347
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 2: no one seems to care about her or what she wants,

1348
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,960
Speaker 2: and therefore the audience has a hard time knowing and

1349
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 2: caring about her and I think that's a damn shame

1350
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 2: because she's one of the few characters who's not like

1351
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 2: male coded like all the other Muppets are.

1352
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 3: I agree with you. I think that Camilla is extremely

1353
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 3: disrespected and if there is any five years ago, over

1354
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 3: the top, unnecessary origin mini series about a Muppet's character,

1355
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 3: I would like to see Camilla because I just can't

1356
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 3: unlike Miss Piggy, who I could watch for a million years,

1357
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:00,160
Speaker 3: but I don't think that her character has been been

1358
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 3: like underthought or under disgusted as the years have gone on. Camilla,

1359
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 3: I just don't think has been thought about it once

1360
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 3: because Yeah, as I was watching this, I was like, well,

1361
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:17,599
Speaker 3: has Camilla ever been given more consideration than this movie?

1362
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 3: And the answer appears to be a hard no. Where.

1363
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 3: Camilla was introduced in the late seventies on The Muppet Show,

1364
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 3: always in conversation with Gonzo, which is not the case

1365
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 3: for Miss Piggy. Miss Picky was originally a utility player

1366
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 3: on the Muppet Show who was later brought into Kurbit's orbit,

1367
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 3: but she's originally sort of her own thing. But she

1368
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:45,000
Speaker 3: was introduced in episode three h five of the Muppet Show,

1369
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 3: most prominently in episode three oh nine, and I'm pulling

1370
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 3: from the Muppet wiki.

1371
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 2: Here, okay, scholarly journal.

1372
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 3: Muppet wiki when Gonzo attempted to audition her and another

1373
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 3: chicken named Nelly for Liberachi's So, just to remind you

1374
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 3: what yar we're in here, So Camilla was sort of

1375
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 3: the standout chicken from a group of chickens, much like

1376
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 3: Miss Piggy was a standout from a group of pigs.

1377
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:14,759
Speaker 3: And again it's like, is this how women become prominent

1378
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 3: by standing out from a pack of other women? It's

1379
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 3: just interesting.

1380
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 2: Wow.

1381
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 3: But the whole joke with Camilla for the last almost

1382
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 3: now fifty years is that Gonzo will frequently attempt to

1383
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,560
Speaker 3: step out on Camilla because he cannot tell the difference

1384
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:36,320
Speaker 3: between Camilla and other chickens, which is just a broadway

1385
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 3: of saying all women are the same to our guy, Gonzo.

1386
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 2: So he's polyamorous by accident smooching on all these others.

1387
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 3: I think that's an interesting way of saying cheating. I

1388
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 3: think that's a way of saying he's cheating on her.

1389
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:54,639
Speaker 3: I would love I dare a man to say, actually,

1390
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 3: it turns out I'm polyamorous accident. I'm like, uh, bitch,

1391
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,960
Speaker 3: you're cheating, Like he is a cheater, yeah, because he

1392
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:05,719
Speaker 3: tells Camilla, you're my one and only and then says, oops,

1393
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:07,960
Speaker 3: turns out all women are the same to me, so

1394
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 3: he is. Actually I would chafe with that. I would

1395
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 3: say that he is a cheater who is lying about it.

1396
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 3: And that's the polyamorous community I love and respect and

1397
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 3: the whole point of the poly I mean, unless I'm

1398
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 3: it's that you're not doing that.

1399
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:25,560
Speaker 2: It's that you're open and honest with your intentions.

1400
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 3: Yes, Gonzo, I would say that honesty is not there.

1401
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 3: The thing is, I can separate the art from the

1402
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:37,639
Speaker 3: artist with Gonzo because I love Gonzo and I think

1403
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 3: he's got riz. I think he's got incredible outfits. I

1404
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:46,759
Speaker 3: think he gave a career defining performance in Muppet Christmas Carol. Like, yes,

1405
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 3: I love Gonzo, but interpersonally, I just think he just

1406
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 3: mistreats Camilla and then he's just like, oh sorry, I

1407
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 3: can't tell the difference between you and other chickens. This

1408
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:05,559
Speaker 3: is a an ongoing joke for decades with Gonzo and Camilla,

1409
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 3: including in again pulling from the Muppet Wiki on Muppet Babies,

1410
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 3: Camilla is a rag doll that sometimes comes to life

1411
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:18,880
Speaker 3: in baby Gonzo's imagination. So like, she's just I don't

1412
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:24,320
Speaker 3: know the level of thoughtlessness, poor Camilla. I believe that

1413
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:29,599
Speaker 3: Camilla has thoughts, feelings, aspirations that we are just due

1414
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 3: to the language barrier not made privy to and we're

1415
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:40,560
Speaker 3: just she's just doomed to be Gonzo's disrespected wife.

1416
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:45,680
Speaker 2: I agree. And then there's Janice, who is one of

1417
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 2: the members of Electric Mayhem. We also touched briefly on her.

1418
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 2: She barely talks in the scenes that feature the band,

1419
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 2: and it's mostly Doctor Teeth animal yapping on. She isn't

1420
01:26:03,479 --> 01:26:05,520
Speaker 2: given a whole lot of characterization.

1421
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:10,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's not super prominent, which sucks because I think

1422
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,679
Speaker 3: that she is like a very sweet and fun character.

1423
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 3: I like her. I wish that there was more. But yeah,

1424
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:22,320
Speaker 3: like she is, if anything, number three in the band

1425
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 3: where it's like Doctor Teeth, but I think she probably

1426
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 3: still speaks the least.

1427
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:27,960
Speaker 2: I would say.

1428
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 3: So, Yeah, it's a bummer. It's a bummer because I

1429
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 3: like her. I think she's fun. I guess that she

1430
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:43,240
Speaker 3: was originally again pulling from scholarly journal Muppets Wiki, she

1431
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 3: was originally designed as a part of a Mick Jagger episode. Okay,

1432
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 3: so I guess that was like why the band was

1433
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 3: created to like play with him, And I don't know.

1434
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot of music and specifically

1435
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:04,799
Speaker 3: rock history in the fact that Janice is the only

1436
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,439
Speaker 3: fem in this band where I feel like that has

1437
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:13,600
Speaker 3: been a common trope that is based in reality of

1438
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 3: like the token woman in a band, and Janie very

1439
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 3: much falls into that trope without really commenting on it

1440
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 3: or characterizing her outside of it. So it just sort

1441
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 3: of feels like acknowledging a known trope versus trying to

1442
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 3: subvert it, which again like sucks because you have it's

1443
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: almost like Princess Leiah syndrome, where you have one woman

1444
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 3: in this whole cannon, Miss Piggy, who is being thought about,

1445
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 3: who is subverting tropes, who is like acknowledging stuff but

1446
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,719
Speaker 3: also pushing back against it, and then you have characters

1447
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 3: like Janis and Camilla who are just falling into the

1448
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 3: trope of the wife who is constantly stepped out on

1449
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 3: but remains and the token woman in the band, whoever

1450
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 3: it is like, it just feels like acknowledgments of Trub's

1451
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 3: as opposed to thoughtfully commenting on them. But get a

1452
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 3: group of men in the room and see if they're

1453
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 3: able to think about more than one woman character. It

1454
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:14,520
Speaker 3: very rarely happens.

1455
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:19,080
Speaker 2: This is so true, and that extends to the human

1456
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 2: women that we see on screen. Because there are tons

1457
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 2: of celebrity cameos in this movie, there are only I

1458
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 2: think three of them are from women. Because you've got

1459
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 2: Carol Kine, Madelin Cohn, and Chloris Leachman. They all have

1460
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,880
Speaker 2: tiny little cameos. They're doing quick bits. And that is

1461
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 2: true of some of the men who are doing celebrity cameos,

1462
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 2: but others like Steve Martin and Mel Brooks, for example,

1463
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 2: have like pretty extended, longish scenes where they're on screen

1464
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 2: quite a bit versus all of the women are barely there.

1465
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:01,839
Speaker 2: I think Chloris Leachman has the most screen time slash

1466
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 2: like plot relevancy because there's a whole thing where she's

1467
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:07,519
Speaker 2: allergic to animal hair and she's the assistant to the

1468
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:11,040
Speaker 2: producer who they're trying to, like see to get the audition,

1469
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 2: and they throw all of their animal hair in her

1470
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 2: face so that she sneezes and they can sneak into

1471
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 2: the office. So all this to say, the women aside

1472
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 2: from Miss Piggy are not thought out well at all.

1473
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 2: Slash are barely there.

1474
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:34,760
Speaker 3: Which is a shame. And I also, I mean, just

1475
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,880
Speaker 3: like hearkening back to the b kind Rewin essay, I

1476
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 3: think something that she very intelligently comments on is like,

1477
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 3: even though the writing and top level decisions with Miss

1478
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 3: Piggy's character come from men, a lot of what makes

1479
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:53,480
Speaker 3: her iconic. We're designed by women who designed her costumes

1480
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 3: and like designed the aesthetic that surrounds her where she

1481
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 3: is not completely beholden to men, but those are the

1482
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 3: people that sort of ultimately hold the reins on what

1483
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 3: the character says and performs. And I don't know, I mean,

1484
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of ways to look at that,

1485
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 3: and I don't want to be too binary, and like

1486
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 3: who gets to determine who this character is? But when

1487
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 3: you have a room full of CIS men who mostly

1488
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 3: identify as straight making these decisions, you can feel it.

1489
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,960
Speaker 3: And it does feel kind of like a miracle that

1490
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:30,600
Speaker 3: you even get Miss Piggy out of a room of

1491
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 3: creatives like this, And so I'm grateful for that. And

1492
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 3: I also I think that the way that women are

1493
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:42,920
Speaker 3: portrayed or just like glaringly not portrayed in the Muppets,

1494
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:47,000
Speaker 3: like definitely leave something to be desired. It's better handled

1495
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:51,679
Speaker 3: in Sesame Street, which has as an Auntie I can

1496
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:59,639
Speaker 3: tell you, steadily introduced more presenting characters into its core

1497
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:04,160
Speaker 3: group over the years to sort of rectify the original

1498
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 3: cast of majority male characters that were introduced to Sesame

1499
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:12,720
Speaker 3: Street in the nineteen sixties. So you are originally presented

1500
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:18,480
Speaker 3: over half a century ago with mostly male identifying muppets,

1501
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:21,559
Speaker 3: But this is a show that's been on for half

1502
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 3: a century, and so they've brought in characters that are

1503
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 3: more representative of the actual world and the Muppets because

1504
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 3: I feel like, of how stop and go they have

1505
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 3: been in terms of cultural relevance, that has never really happened.

1506
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,160
Speaker 3: They haven't been updated in the way that a weekly

1507
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,720
Speaker 3: show that's been on for half a century would have

1508
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:45,599
Speaker 3: to be updated, and that sucks. And I think, while

1509
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,720
Speaker 3: that is a frustration, and while I hope and I

1510
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:50,680
Speaker 3: think that like the Jason Siegel thing was kind of

1511
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:53,559
Speaker 3: a failed attempt to do this, because like, what did

1512
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 3: Jason Siegel do in that original movie he put out,

1513
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:02,320
Speaker 3: besides presenting himself a sis male and this other character

1514
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:05,840
Speaker 3: Walter Us, this male muppet like you just did more

1515
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:09,680
Speaker 3: of the same, so there wasn't any meaningful shift. I

1516
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,240
Speaker 3: think if the Muppets do get a huge relaunch, I

1517
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 3: hope it would be with a more diverse behind the

1518
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:20,160
Speaker 3: scenes crew and just a more diverse presentation of who

1519
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,719
Speaker 3: the Muppets are, and that as long as the characters

1520
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 3: are strong, it will work. Like right, that's really all

1521
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 3: it takes. If that does happen down the line, I

1522
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:31,760
Speaker 3: hope that there would be meaningful effort behind that. But

1523
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 3: in the meantime, I mean, I think a nice thing

1524
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 3: I want to say is that as dominated by male

1525
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 3: presenting characters as this world is, they are more emotionally

1526
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 3: intelligent than most male characters of this era are, or

1527
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 3: at least more able to present emotion and feelings.

1528
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:59,679
Speaker 2: I would agree with that. It's almost as if characters

1529
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 2: who are not like visibly human it allows them to

1530
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 2: kind of be more emotionally intelligent and expressive. Sure, because

1531
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:18,679
Speaker 2: the pressure of like cis mean to have a certain

1532
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:24,879
Speaker 2: level or perceived masculinity kind of goes out the window

1533
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:30,800
Speaker 2: when it's puppets made of felt, you know, so I

1534
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:34,080
Speaker 2: feel like that probably has something to do with it.

1535
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:38,240
Speaker 3: Yes, so very a very male coping mechanism of like,

1536
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 3: can I express this if it's through my puppet and

1537
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 3: you're like, yeah.

1538
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 2: If that helps, I guess.

1539
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,559
Speaker 3: But I do appreciate that, like I mean, and again,

1540
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 3: particularly with Kermit, that he is an imperfect character. He

1541
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 3: has a lot of self doubt. He has a lot

1542
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 3: of uncertainty about himself in the direction his life is going.

1543
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:06,520
Speaker 3: That is presented, you know, like pretty vulnerably and pretty thoughtfully,

1544
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 3: and that's a very consistent element of that character, where

1545
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 3: he is ambitious and he is invested in the characters

1546
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:19,280
Speaker 3: that surround him, but he also has sort of this

1547
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:22,879
Speaker 3: like Achilles heel of doubt in himself. But it's almost

1548
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:26,640
Speaker 3: that same doubt and questioning that often leads to a

1549
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 3: breakthrough that allows him to feel more confident, and usually

1550
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:35,160
Speaker 3: that confidence is rooted in the community he's built around him,

1551
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 3: and true, I think that's beautiful. And you know, in

1552
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:43,520
Speaker 3: a world that is in almost any era like dominated

1553
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:49,360
Speaker 3: by these very stereotypical male characters who are you know,

1554
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 3: bootstrapping their way to blah blah, blah blah blah. It's

1555
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 3: like just this internal confidence or sense of ability that

1556
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:03,040
Speaker 3: allows them to succeed. With Kerrmit usually what allows him

1557
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 3: to succeed as his willingness to be self reflective and

1558
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:12,240
Speaker 3: this kind of softness to this character that doesn't just

1559
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 3: make him able to be more personally satisfied, but also

1560
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,479
Speaker 3: in terms of like his relationship with Miss Piggy, it's

1561
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:25,600
Speaker 3: his vulnerability and his softness that makes him appealing romantically,

1562
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 3: which is something that we're also not frequently presented with

1563
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:33,599
Speaker 3: with a male romantic hero. So I think, you know,

1564
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 3: he and Miss Piggy are both very flawed characters, but

1565
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 3: I don't view that as a negative. I think that

1566
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 3: that is just like part of why they are so enduring.

1567
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:47,160
Speaker 2: It's part of the human experience. Slash the Frog and

1568
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 2: pig experience. Yeah, yeah, I like that scene where he

1569
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 2: is talking to himself, like by the campfire in the desert.

1570
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 2: It's a very like Gollum and Smeagel scene to me.

1571
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 3: But like the cuteous version of it. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah.

1572
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 3: I love curve It. I just I love them all

1573
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:14,720
Speaker 3: except Fazzi Bear It can suck it. He can I

1574
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:16,439
Speaker 3: wish him the worst.

1575
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 2: Just to speak a little bit more to the kind

1576
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:23,040
Speaker 2: of failure to evolve in the Muppets, the way that

1577
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 2: like Sesame Street has been able to become more inclusive.

1578
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 2: I think it's worth noting that this is an extremely

1579
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 2: white movie slash white cast. All of the Muppets are

1580
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 2: muppeteered and voiced by white men, and all of the

1581
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 2: cameos except for Richard Pryor and maybe one or two

1582
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:53,000
Speaker 2: other exceptions, but otherwise it's overwhelmingly white actors who are

1583
01:36:53,600 --> 01:36:58,160
Speaker 2: seen like as human beings in the movie. So yeah,

1584
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:04,720
Speaker 2: just overwhelmingly white cast that I don't think improves very

1585
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:09,759
Speaker 2: much as the Muppets go on, maybe with the exception

1586
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 2: of Muppet Wizard of Oz with Ashantine.

1587
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:16,759
Speaker 3: Quinn Well and we and neither of us have watched

1588
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 3: last year's completely I think watched by no people. Muppet

1589
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:23,719
Speaker 3: Haunted Mansion.

1590
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,639
Speaker 2: I started, I was curious, and it was really bad,

1591
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 2: and then I shut it off.

1592
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,640
Speaker 3: I can't. I do think it would be really interesting

1593
01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:35,600
Speaker 3: to sort of analyze side by side, because I'm not

1594
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 3: an authority on either of these, but like to see

1595
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:43,879
Speaker 3: how and why Sesame Street has kept with the times

1596
01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:47,920
Speaker 3: so intelligently were the Muppets. You know, they came from

1597
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:50,639
Speaker 3: the same mind, but it just feels like there's been

1598
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:55,559
Speaker 3: a different amount of care and creative control applied to

1599
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:58,600
Speaker 3: the differing things, because yeah, I mean from when I

1600
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:01,200
Speaker 3: get do I mean from just Sesame Street has always

1601
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:05,599
Speaker 3: been a very diverse world from day one that has

1602
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 3: improved over time, where it was like supposed to accurately

1603
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:13,519
Speaker 3: reflect the demographics of New York City at the time

1604
01:38:14,120 --> 01:38:16,879
Speaker 3: that it started, and so it was not an entirely

1605
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:19,799
Speaker 3: white world and it was a poor neighborhood that Sesame

1606
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:24,160
Speaker 3: Street is set in, and I just never I think

1607
01:38:24,200 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 3: it's like, maybe because the Muppets have such high brow

1608
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 3: aspirations in a way that Sesame Street doesn't because they're

1609
01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:37,640
Speaker 3: all supposed to be four or something. I don't know.

1610
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 3: It is interesting to see how the same creative team

1611
01:38:40,439 --> 01:38:45,120
Speaker 3: can spawn such different legacies in terms of representation.

1612
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:48,600
Speaker 2: I do like when they drive past Big Bird and

1613
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:50,640
Speaker 2: they're like, do you want to come with us to Hollywood?

1614
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:53,280
Speaker 2: And he's like, no, I'm going to New York City?

1615
01:38:53,479 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 2: Ever heard of it? And they're like, good look.

1616
01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:59,679
Speaker 3: One of the movies I considered pitching for my birthday

1617
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:01,200
Speaker 3: that I was like, I can't do this to Caitlin.

1618
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:04,599
Speaker 3: But I watched it with my niece recently. It's so fun.

1619
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:07,480
Speaker 3: Is the Adventures of the Elmo and Grouchland?

1620
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 2: No, I would have enjoyed that.

1621
01:39:09,439 --> 01:39:13,000
Speaker 3: I think it's so good. It's really good. We should

1622
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:14,920
Speaker 3: cover it another time. I also don't know how much

1623
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:16,680
Speaker 3: there would be to talk about because it is a

1624
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 3: movie for four year olds, but like, yeah, I watched

1625
01:39:19,280 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 3: it with my niece. I remember my little brother went

1626
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:25,120
Speaker 3: to see it in theaters. It was a big deal.

1627
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:29,759
Speaker 3: But it's basically just exactly what it sounds like. Elmo

1628
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:35,320
Speaker 3: goes to Grouchland, where Oscar the Grouch is from. It's

1629
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 3: so iconic. The villain is Mandy Patankin and the fairy

1630
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:46,080
Speaker 3: godmother type character is Vanessa Williams, and it's just unreal.

1631
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:51,519
Speaker 3: It's a very special film, Okay, And I think it's

1632
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:54,800
Speaker 3: one of the only I haven't actually seen this movie

1633
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,040
Speaker 3: because it came out a fair amount of time before

1634
01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:00,679
Speaker 3: I was born in so have you seen Same Street?

1635
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 3: Follow That Bird? No, it's a movie that came out

1636
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty five, so it predates both of us.

1637
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 3: It's big Bird's movie. Okay, it is showing that the

1638
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:13,280
Speaker 3: new Beverly in a couple of weeks, and I am

1639
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:18,080
Speaker 3: gonna go. We go? Should we go? I like Sesame

1640
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:21,280
Speaker 3: Street movies have historically never worked out. Elmo and Grouchland

1641
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 3: flopped at the box office, damn. But it is an

1642
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 3: incredible movie and I would recommend it.

1643
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:28,439
Speaker 2: Okay.

1644
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:30,920
Speaker 3: Is it a bechel Cast movie? I don't know. I

1645
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 3: don't know. Give us a couple of years.

1646
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 2: Anything could be a bechdel Cast movie.

1647
01:40:34,479 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 3: It's true.

1648
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:35,719
Speaker 2: It's true.

1649
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:38,720
Speaker 3: A movie is a bechdel Cast movie. Yeah, I don't know.

1650
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:40,880
Speaker 3: Do you have anything else to say about the Muppet Movie?

1651
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:44,639
Speaker 2: I don't think I do. Do you?

1652
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 3: I don't think so either. I think you know ultimately,

1653
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 3: I you know. On a personal level, I just think

1654
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:56,599
Speaker 3: that this movie and this world, while flawed, is really

1655
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 3: special to me. And I think I probably will, in

1656
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 3: my COVID fugue state after this go and watch the

1657
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 3: defunct Land Jim Henson series, because for any of his

1658
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:11,840
Speaker 3: flaws and personal biases, I just like, I find his

1659
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:19,639
Speaker 3: creative legacy, in his creative trajectory so inspiring and so cool,

1660
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:25,200
Speaker 3: and I just really love his and Frank Oz's collaborations.

1661
01:41:25,240 --> 01:41:28,559
Speaker 3: I think they're so special and so boundary pushing, and

1662
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 3: all of the risks that he took in times that

1663
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,719
Speaker 3: he was willing to say like, eh, fuck you guys,

1664
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 3: I'll I'll take a pay cut to like try this,

1665
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:42,680
Speaker 3: and sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't, but

1666
01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 3: it was always interesting and it was always I don't know,

1667
01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:48,360
Speaker 3: I just like, I've been thinking about a lot of

1668
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:52,840
Speaker 3: artists who took those kinds of risks recently, and he

1669
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:55,639
Speaker 3: did it in a way that made it's so I mean,

1670
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:57,920
Speaker 3: I know that Kermit is very much a Jim Henson

1671
01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:03,639
Speaker 3: self insert character, but you know the whole idea of that. Yes,

1672
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 3: he did want success and he did want fame, but

1673
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 3: he also only wanted that to the extent that it

1674
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:12,639
Speaker 3: would make others happy.

1675
01:42:13,160 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is.

1676
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:18,599
Speaker 3: Kind of a overly simplistic way to present any of that.

1677
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:20,800
Speaker 3: But I just think at its core, it's really cool

1678
01:42:20,840 --> 01:42:23,599
Speaker 3: and feels like what Jim Henson was at his core

1679
01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:26,920
Speaker 3: for any of his flaws, really trying to do. And

1680
01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:31,840
Speaker 3: I just love I love Muppet World. It's the best,

1681
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:34,200
Speaker 3: That's all I have to say.

1682
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:41,599
Speaker 2: Beautiful. The movie does not, unfortunately, pass the Bechdel test.

1683
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:46,519
Speaker 3: No, it does not. It certainly does not know you.

1684
01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:49,920
Speaker 3: And that's an l that's a big L hard no.

1685
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:53,200
Speaker 2: But what about our nipple scale where we rate the

1686
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:57,880
Speaker 2: movie on a scale I don't examining it through an

1687
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 2: intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, yeah, you know what, as much

1688
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:05,080
Speaker 2: as I enjoy the Muppets, I don't think this movie

1689
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 2: does very well on the nipple scale. Yeah, I would

1690
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,080
Speaker 2: give it, I guess to split down the middle. Let's

1691
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 2: do the bechdelcast cheat code and do two and a half.

1692
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:21,560
Speaker 2: Because there are subversions like when Miss Piggy saves herself

1693
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:24,920
Speaker 2: and saves Kermit and isn't a damsel in distress, which

1694
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:28,040
Speaker 2: is what that scene is deliberately being set up to be,

1695
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:31,920
Speaker 2: and then also deliberately subverts that expectation. And so I

1696
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 2: appreciated moments like that, but those are few and far between,

1697
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 2: and it's mostly just female characters being ignored or not

1698
01:43:43,880 --> 01:43:47,439
Speaker 2: really having much bearing on the story. And it's very

1699
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:52,679
Speaker 2: much a focus on the male Muppets and what their

1700
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:57,320
Speaker 2: desires are and what their journey is. And Miss Piggy

1701
01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 2: is the most significant character you know who presents as

1702
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 2: a woman, but you know she has a thing or

1703
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:09,080
Speaker 2: two like the other Muppets, to learn about healthy boundaries

1704
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 2: and clear communication. So nice that she's flawed, but I

1705
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:18,519
Speaker 2: don't know. She is like abusive to Kermit a lot

1706
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 2: of the time, and that's not good. All this to say,

1707
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:24,679
Speaker 2: I'll give it to and a half nipples. I'll give

1708
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 2: one to Miss Piggy because of her just like place

1709
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 2: in the Zeitgeist. I'll give one to Camilla because she

1710
01:44:37,120 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 2: deserves a lot more than she was given. And I'll

1711
01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 2: give my half nipple to Janice, who also deserves more. Yeah,

1712
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:48,840
Speaker 2: I will.

1713
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 3: Split down the middle as well. I think that there

1714
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 3: is so much to love from a starting point of subversion.

1715
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:02,599
Speaker 3: Most of this goes to Miss Piggy, and I think

1716
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:06,120
Speaker 3: what this movie fails to do and what the franchise

1717
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:09,200
Speaker 3: fails to do. I would say the Muppet Show, while

1718
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:13,680
Speaker 3: that's a whole other situation, was at least more inclusive

1719
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:18,360
Speaker 3: and included a more diverse group of guest hosts in

1720
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:22,719
Speaker 3: their shows. There's so many incredible iconic episodes with people

1721
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:25,160
Speaker 3: of color, with queer people that were brought onto the show.

1722
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:28,519
Speaker 3: You don't really see that reflected in their first movie

1723
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:33,320
Speaker 3: and or subsequent movie outputs. Really, and that's disappointing because

1724
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:37,240
Speaker 3: it wasn't like they lacked in, you know, celebrity interests

1725
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:40,799
Speaker 3: that were not CIS white people. I think Miss Piggy

1726
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:44,719
Speaker 3: on her own, like really is a game changer, which

1727
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:46,840
Speaker 3: sounds so silly, but I do think it's true. But

1728
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 3: with the other women that populate this world, there's not

1729
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:52,920
Speaker 3: only not enough women and fem characters, but outside of

1730
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:55,240
Speaker 3: Miss Piggy, there's kind of little to be desired in

1731
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:58,880
Speaker 3: terms of character development or further discussion, even though I

1732
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 3: think that the interesting elements of those characters are there

1733
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,479
Speaker 3: which were so often frustrated by and that connects to

1734
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:08,000
Speaker 3: who is behind the camera. You know, not to say

1735
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,160
Speaker 3: that there is not some gender diversity behind the camera,

1736
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:15,080
Speaker 3: but certainly not in leadership roles or in performers, and

1737
01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 3: that obviously makes a huge difference. That said, I think

1738
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:24,320
Speaker 3: that the Muppets have inspired so many incredible creative subsequent

1739
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:28,120
Speaker 3: endeavors that have been more inclusive and have been more thoughtful.

1740
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:33,280
Speaker 3: I just cannot think of anything like them. They're just

1741
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:35,640
Speaker 3: so singular and so special, and I think, for all

1742
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:39,280
Speaker 3: of their faults, very pure of heart and existing to

1743
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:42,680
Speaker 3: bring people joy. And I love them so much, and

1744
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:45,880
Speaker 3: I love this movie so much, so I'm going to

1745
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:47,679
Speaker 3: go to and a half nipples and the Bechdel cast

1746
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:53,000
Speaker 3: nipple scale, but five trillion nipples on the Jamie, I

1747
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:57,000
Speaker 3: love it injected into my veins raw scale. And I

1748
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:01,320
Speaker 3: will give my nipples to Miss Piggy Janice, and I'll

1749
01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:03,400
Speaker 3: give the half to Camilla. But I do think that

1750
01:47:03,479 --> 01:47:08,439
Speaker 3: she deserves of anyone in this universe, she deserves the

1751
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:11,360
Speaker 3: vanity limited serious treatment.

1752
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, give her a Chicken Run movie or run Away

1753
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:16,960
Speaker 2: from Gonzo, you know.

1754
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly.

1755
01:47:20,200 --> 01:47:20,920
Speaker 2: And with that in.

1756
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:25,639
Speaker 3: Mind, if you are interested in the magdal cast talking

1757
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:29,160
Speaker 3: about chickens, we are going to be at the American

1758
01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:32,760
Speaker 3: Cinema Tech Friends of the Fest Festival at the Los

1759
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:36,000
Speaker 3: Felis three on August twenty fifth at four pm hosting

1760
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:40,680
Speaker 3: a screening of Chicken Run. Ever heard of it? And

1761
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 3: you can get the tickets to that in the link

1762
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:45,000
Speaker 3: in our Bayo.

1763
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:48,559
Speaker 2: Sweetly, Happy birthday, Jamie.

1764
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:52,000
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, I don't care. This year, I think we

1765
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:55,040
Speaker 3: should go to not It's very far. Yeah that much,

1766
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 3: I know.

1767
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 2: I love that.

1768
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,040
Speaker 3: I need to see Snoopy. I just have this like

1769
01:48:00,160 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 3: to be close to Snoopy at this time.

1770
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:04,559
Speaker 2: I love that I need to ride a roller coaster.

1771
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:06,639
Speaker 2: So okay, that all works out.

1772
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:08,439
Speaker 3: Two and one, two and one baby.

1773
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:15,120
Speaker 2: You can subscribe to our Matreon at patreon dot com

1774
01:48:15,120 --> 01:48:19,760
Speaker 2: slash bachtel Cast, where we put out two bonus episodes

1775
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:23,519
Speaker 2: every month. Plus you get access to our back catalog

1776
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 2: of over one hundred and fifty bonus episodes and that

1777
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:31,120
Speaker 2: is all five dollars a month.

1778
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:36,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can also go to our merch store

1779
01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:40,200
Speaker 3: teapapic dot com slash Dbachdel Cast for all of your

1780
01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:45,799
Speaker 3: merchandising needs. In the meantime, keep it this piggy karate

1781
01:48:45,920 --> 01:48:51,920
Speaker 3: chop your romantic interests and we will look No, I'm

1782
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:54,120
Speaker 3: standing by it. I'm standing by it. Send me to jail.

1783
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:56,920
Speaker 3: I'll give a shit. It's my birthday. True and we'll

1784
01:48:56,920 --> 01:48:57,839
Speaker 3: see you next week.

1785
01:48:58,840 --> 01:48:59,840
Speaker 2: Walka, Walka.

1786
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:02,120
Speaker 3: Comes full circle.

1787
01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:10,120
Speaker 2: Ye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

1788
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:14,120
Speaker 2: hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman,

1789
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:17,800
Speaker 2: edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by

1790
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:22,080
Speaker 2: Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo and

1791
01:49:22,200 --> 01:49:25,559
Speaker 2: merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

1792
01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:29,719
Speaker 2: to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

1793
01:49:29,840 --> 01:49:32,120
Speaker 2: visit Linktree slash Bechdel Cast