WEBVTT - Kick and a Miss 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:07.000 Hey, folks, He's won three Super Bowls and you probably 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:11.319 didn't know his name. He gave one commencement speech at 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:16.200 a tiny college in Kansas, and now everybody is talking 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.160 about him. Welcome, folks to this episode of Amy and TJ, 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:24.040 a special episode that we didn't plan on doing, but 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.960 robes a lot of conversation privately here was prompted by 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.120 what we're now seeing, as I guess you could call 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.880 it backlash for the speech that Harrison Butker of the 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.360 Kansas City Chiefs gave at a college in Kansas. 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.600 That's right. I first saw some of the noise the 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.839 reaction to his speech yesterday and went on to actually 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.199 read the transcript under you actually watched the speech. I 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.040 watched some of it to see what all of the 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.320 fuss was about. But I came to you and my 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.400 jaw dropped. I was and initially felt much of what 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.240 I'm seeing A lot of women felt when they heard 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.280 or read what he said. To sum it up, he 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.800 said a lot in his speech to the graduating class 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.399 giving the commencement speech there over the weekend. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.120 And context though who he was giving this. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.360 He was giving the speech to the graduating class of 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.800 Benedictine College. It is a conservative Catholic college in the Midwest, 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.880 very close to where I spent my formative years in Missouri, 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.760 going and attending Catholic schools. I want to at least 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.560 put this out there. I am no longer a practicing Catholic, 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.080 but I was raised in the Catholic faith in the Midwest. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.080 My parents are still devout Catholics, as is much of 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.320 my family. So this was all a very interesting speech 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:52.360 that I did take offense to. Interestingly, TJ, you had 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.320 a little bit of a different reaction initially before you 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.960 kind of got into the details of the story. 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.120 Well, I saw someone's reaction to what we often do, 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.960 right with social media and things that can become hot 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.520 button issues and clickable, I suppose. So I saw a 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:11.720 lot of the reaction I was reading about his speech 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.560 before I actually saw the speech, and once I saw 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:20.040 the speech and got a little more context, not in 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.880 some agreement one way or another with anything he said, 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.360 but rather where he was coming from, what he was saying, 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.320 why he was saying, and how personally it was to 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.480 him and the audience he was talking to. It changed 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.680 a little. It didn't change what he said, but it 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.519 changed some of the I guess some of the things 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.080 I read, I believe were meant to be a little 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:45.120 more clickable if you will. And this, you know, it 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.480 always drives me crazy. And things like this happened. Everybody 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.320 just here, we go, go to our respective corners, let's 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.920 come out, let's fight, and then let's go back to 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.200 our corners. And nobody learned anything, and nobody got anywhere. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.079 And this is just another opportunity I thought, to have 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.600 a better and a broader conversation and more understanding about 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.520 what exactly he said, but also about the church and 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.280 how many other people might feel the way he does. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.919 Yeah, and there were a couple of groups who were 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.360 offended by what he said, a lot of especially working women, 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:21.960 I would say, and members of the LGBTQ community as well. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.200 So there were there were two things to address. But 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:29.600 I'll start with the women just because, as again, I 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.640 was raised in the Catholic faith and am a working woman. 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.519 So it's an interesting position to be in. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.160 And it's fair to say, right, there was a lot 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:42.360 in there. I mean, he went after President Biden on abortions. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.680 He threw in diversity, equity and inclusion, a lot of 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:48.800 stuff was in there, But is it fair to say 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.120 I think I felt that way that the thing that 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.160 most people were worked up about or writing about had 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.640 to do with his comments about women and being a homemaker. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.400 Is the word he Yes, would you say that's the 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:59.720 thing that got most correct? 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:01.960 Yes? And then and then I actually went into a 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.120 deep dive as you did as well this morning, because 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.440 even though I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.480 in the Midwest, I still was a little bit unclear 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.640 about where the Catholic Church officially stands on women working 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.320 outside of the home. And I feel like I got 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.640 some clarity. Although there's always you can read anything anyway 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.599 that you'd like. People take the Bible and things that 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.280 Pope say, you know, literally, and sometimes people take it 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.279 to fit the context they want it to, so it's 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:31.000 always up for interpretation. I'll put that out there. But 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.760 the biggest thing that I took offense to look, he's 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.240 talking to a bunch of men and women who have 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.080 just spent four years at university and are graduating, And 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.760 I mean I encourage everyone to go and listen to 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.800 the speech or at least read the transcript of the 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.640 speech as well, because this is just a summation of 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:55.039 a few parts. But he he spoke to the women 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.400 in the in the room specifically saying I want to 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.240 speak to you directly, he says, and I'm gonna quote 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.480 him here because I think it is you, the women 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.280 who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.320 How many of you are sitting here now about to 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.039 cross the stage and are thinking about all of the 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.839 promotions and titles you're going to get in your career. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.240 He goes on to say, some of you may go 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.360 on to lead successful careers in the world, but I 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.839 would venture to guess that the majority of you are 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.960 most excited about your marriage and the children you will 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:25.800 bring into this world. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.560 He goes going to stop, Yes, go ahead, and now, 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.600 so right there, where does what in that I don't 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.560 want to completely break down word for word here too much, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.280 but in what he's saying there, you're you said you're offended. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.760 So the offense in that I'm aware for you. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.160 So yes, I understand the audience. And by the way, 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.520 he received a standing ovation at the end of this speech, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.880 we should point that out. You could say he knew 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.200 his audience. This was a conservative Catholic university. But I 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.800 guess I also just have initially an issue with a 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.560 man telling women saying I would venture to guess that 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.520 the majority of you. I feel like that's a very 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.360 presumptive way to start any sentence, and then to go 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.120 on to say something about, even though you just spent 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:15.599 four years educating yourself and getting your career, you're more 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.839 excited about being a wife and a mother. I think 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.560 that's incredibly presumptive, and that therein lies some of the offense. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:27.040 Now if I'm not the weeds, but not even semantics, 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.599 but words matter. But I'm looking at this, the quote 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.360 you just read to everybody. If he would have changed 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.039 that language that said, I would venture to guess that 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.359 the majority of you are most excited about your marriage 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.800 and the children you'll bring into the world. If he 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.680 would have said, but I bet some of you are 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.400 most excited, I would guess a few of you. If 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.039 he would have changed that to not a presumption that 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.320 I know what most women in this room are thinking. 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:52.640 Would that have made a difference, It. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.720 Would have softened it. But I think you are stepping 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.680 into dangerous territory when you are presuming, especially that the 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:04.000 majority of a sex you don't know anything about truly 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.000 to be and what it is to be a woman. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:11.320 I think that immediately raises eyebrows and makes people feel like, wait, 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:12.560 who are you to speak for us? 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.360 That is, and I'll go back on a lot of 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.400 emphasis is put on him, an attention on him, but 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.120 he's speaking to an audience like you said. That gave 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.960 him a standing ovation at the end, and he was 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.640 not booed, nobody walked out. There was no protest when 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:31.000 he said this. Can we venture to say that this idea, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.920 that line, that sentence is something that a lot of 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.840 people in that room, and maybe a lot of people 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.800 outside of that room in the Catholic faith would completely 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:42.200 agree with. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.240 There are people inside and outside of the Catholic faith 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.400 who would agree with that. I'm sure, and I'm not 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:53.040 here to say that it's wrong to be excited about 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.680 those things or for that to be the thing you 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.200 want to do after getting a college education or foregoing 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.880 an education, becoming a wife and a mother. I have 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.400 no issue with that at all. I mean, my mother 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.760 herself was a wife and a mother before getting educated. 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.440 Waited until we went back to school to get educated, 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.600 and waited until we were well on our way before 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.360 she became a teacher. So you know, I applaud all 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.160 the women out there who are able to be able 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.320 to make that decision. And that's a clear distinction, because 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.800 so many women don't have the choice to be homemakers 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.120 or to not enter the workforce for financial reasons. So 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.560 you know, there's a whole group of women who I'm 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.600 sure feel very upset about the fact that somehow it's 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.640 a choice. It's not always a choice. I think that's 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.320 a very clear distinction to make. But also I just 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.640 want to say, being raised in the Catholic Church, in 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:51.600 a very conservative Catholic school in the Midwest, I never 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:57.679 once ever felt or heard anyone, no priest, no, certainly 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.840 not my parents, suggest that at my main vocation in life, 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.200 my main purpose in life was to become a wife 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.120 and a mother and that would be me serving the church. 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:09.960 I never ever heard that. Now, I will also just 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.200 say this because I want to be fully transparent. One 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.240 of the reasons, and I would say the main reason 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:21.920 that I felt I just didn't feel comfortable in the 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:24.560 Catholic Church and I ultimately left the Catholic Church was 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.760 because of many of their stances on women's reproductive rights. 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:33.680 So I don't agree with the Church's stance on much 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.240 to do with women, but I will firmly say that 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:42.080 I never felt like there was not just a push 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:46.680 for me to not work, but even you know, a 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.040 duty of me not to work outside of the home. 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.640 But can that also be not women aren't allowed to 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:58.600 be priests? This idea here of the vocation there is 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.319 a sacrament right as a vocation is called. It's a 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.160 vocation of marriage in the Catholic Church, is it not? Yes? 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.359 No, And I have I have completed all the sacraments 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:10.480 through marriage. And both of my daughters, by the way, 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.640 have gone through Catholic school, Catholic upbringing, and have completed 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.400 all of their sacraments through confirmation. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.400 So I'm getting in what I'm sticking with this this 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.240 quote here, the idea that someone in the Catholic Church 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.240 who is making a a devout Catholic who is making 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.280 a speech to a conservative Catholic school saying something like 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.840 this isn't far fetched? Is it? For me? It was 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.480 to that that guy at that school making that speech 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.600 is not far fetched for us on the outside potentially, 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.439 but for his audience, and they invited him in this. 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.160 This didn't come out of left field, is what I'm 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.079 saying to this audience. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.440 Yep, No, I hear you and I and to your point, yes, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.680 I don't know that school intimately, obviously, I just know 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.920 that I have had the experience of being in a 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.960 conservative Catholic educational system and those points were never made. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:04.920 No one ever said anything like that. So this is 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.000 the first time I've ever heard that. I'm not saying 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.160 that this isn't in line with what this school teaches, 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:14.280 but I have I personally and I've had the experience 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.000 of being in a conservative Catholic educational system. I have 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.559 never heard anyone say anything like that. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.720 About the idea of being excited about being married and 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.560 having children. Because I'm just looking at his wowing. 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.600 A career and being more excited about that. 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.960 I don't want to put words in his mouth. Where 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.520 did you see him say for tell them to forego 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.559 a career. This is one of the things I always get. 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.280 Do you know this, because we dealt with a lot 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:39.679 of people. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.320 May not have directly said it, TJ, but he certainly 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.040 indirectly said it because he then talked about his wife 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.240 giving up her career to be a wife and a 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.839 mother and to support him so to be his wife, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.880 to be their children's mother. And he then went on 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.080 to say, if she has any regrets on her decision, 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.840 if you're asking that, she would laugh out loud without 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.200 hesitation and say heck no. So he was certainly applying, 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:06.839 and I will say this. He also said that women 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:14.520 and he was saying that could be much happier doing 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.079 this than being in the workplace. I'm just saying again, 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.079 he is taking something that he has experienced that a 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.520 lot of people have experienced. And I'm not saying that 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.360 that isn't true, but to be saying this to a 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.560 group of women who have just spent four years preparing 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.480 to be in the workforce potentially or at least to 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:35.800 be educated, to have the opportunity to to say, you 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.640 could be so much happier if you disregard the outside noise. 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.520 And I'm assuming he's referring to the media and to 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.160 liberals in the world, because he does reference them throughout 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.200 this speech to move closer to God's will, implying that 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:55.160 God's will is for women to be wives and mothers, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.280 and so that is where the offense or that's where 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.520 the rub lies. Therein lies the roub. I guess the phrase, 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.040 but that is where I think a lot of women 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:05.480 it took issue. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.960 Well. I would encourage everybody to not even just read it, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:11.720 if you greet it, if you get a chance, but 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.880 I encourage you to actually listen to it. And again 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:21.719 there's there's everybody can disagree about the position of or 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.400 anybody who takes a position that women should be in 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.760 the home. That's silly, that's outdated, that's not even in 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.360 existence necessarily, or shouldn't be something we should talk about 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.040 in a serious manner. Quite frankly, I just in this 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.720 conversation where it gets it looks like everybody's dumping on 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:40.680 this guy. And I was trying to understand as a 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:46.239 whole the stance of the people in that room, of Catholics, 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:50.720 of Catholicism, of the religion, and what it actually says. 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.360 And in listening to him, you can infer or jump 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.600 to a conclusion. But I in him talking about his 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:02.920 experience gives an impression and why isn't that okay right 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.240 if his experience was as such? And the rest I 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.480 don't know if you have there as a part of 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.160 the quote you gave about marriage and children you bring 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.480 into this world. Quote he says, I can tell you 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.840 that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.360 say that her life truly started when she began living 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.360 her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.280 on stage today enable to be the man I am 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.480 because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.200 I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me. 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.760 But I cannot it cannot be overstated that all of 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.640 my success is made possible because of a girl I 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.800 met in band class back in middle school and would 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.880 convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.920 of the most important titles of all homemaker. Now getting 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.000 through that quote, he was tearing up and got emotional. 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.000 After he made that quote, he got what I believe 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:59.720 was the only mid speech applause, and it went on 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.520 for or ten fifteen twenty seconds on that line in 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.800 that audience. Now that quote, do you also take issue 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:13.600 with him? He's explaining his situation, what his experience has 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.480 been in the vocation of marriage. 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.560 So I would say this, first of all, he has 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.640 every right to say what he feels, and there are 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.040 certainly plenty of people who want to go back to 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.520 that way of life. That and the reason why the. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.720 Minority aren't they those people? We have to say that I. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.800 Think so, I believe so I wouldn't. I wouldn't want 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.160 to speak to just how many people feel that way. 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.400 But I can tell you how I feel. Women have 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:54.600 spent the last century fighting for rights not to have 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.440 a choice. We've spent, you know, since the beginning of 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.360 history our lives as women on this planet in subservance 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.800 to men. We didn't have any rights. We couldn't own property, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.360 we couldn't get educated, we had no opportunity beyond being 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:15.040 a mother and a wife. And so all of the 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:20.040 women who have fought for women's rights, from education to 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.240 opportunity to equal pay, all of that to hear a 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.680 man say that he gets to be the man he 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.520 wants to be because the woman is sacrificing, because the 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.680 woman is subservient, because the woman is foregoing any professional 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.080 career or aspiration she may have to serve him so 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.280 that he can be the man he needs to be. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.280 He also invited men to lean into their masculinity. So 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.560 I just think that's why you know, you've spent all 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.640 this time trying to have But that's what it invokes. 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:50.640 It invokes that feeling, and that's why there's a motion 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:51.280 attached to it. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.280 That's why I say that it invokes a feeling. But 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.360 I think, and I didn't want to do this here, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.120 but there's so much context, And I say context, we're 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.960 paraphrasing some of the direct things he said and jump 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.760 to conclusions about what he said. I don't want to 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:08.000 do that. You can have an opinion about what he said, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.520 but to us to assign how he feels and what 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.080 he's telling everybody else based on his experience, I think, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.280 I just I want to be careful about going too 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.840 far there. Yes he said it, but some of the 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.080 idea that he is saying you need to be subservient, 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.480 you can't. He's talking to a graduating educated people who, 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.800 like you said, Now, the women in that audience do 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.640 have a choice. They have a choice about the vocation 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.439 of marriage, and they have a choice in education and 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:39.919 what they want to do because they just got it. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:40.879 So I. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:47.879 Want and I'm curious about a wider view that Catholics 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:53.360 have about this this idea and again, it's a vocation 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.159 of marriage, it actually is a thing that's assigned in 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.200 the Catholic Church. That's it is your role, your job, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:07.080 your duty, both though, But I just I just want 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.840 to hesitate to jump to a conclusion about what I 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.920 think is in his heart versus what he said. 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.760 Oh, and I think he was extremely genuine and I 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.800 think what he is saying works for him and his 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.040 wife and his family in a beautiful way. And I 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.840 don't fault them for that. I think that's incredible. I 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.040 think to each his own in terms of what is 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.000 good for you and your family and how you view 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:27.560 your faith. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.880 But I'm just not full stop right now because. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.399 He's encouraging other women, and I just feel like he 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.680 was absolutely encouraging other women and implying that they would 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.840 be happier if they leaned in on that vocation rather 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.000 than pursue a career outside that. 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.600 I just didn't see him say that anywhere. I felt that, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.280 and nowhere did I see him make that statement that 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.240 you need to do this, do not go to work. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:51.720 He didn't say that, but he was encouraging. 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.359 Okay, I'm sorry, you just said it, so I just 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:54.960 want to make sure we're clear on that. You said. 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.239 He's encouraging them not to work and to actually just 0:18:58.280 --> 0:18:59.480 go be homemakers. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.560 He was encouraging them to do that by saying they 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.040 would be happier if they did that. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.400 Again, we need to go through and find the direct quote. 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:10.920 I just I don't want to assign that to him, 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:15.119 and now here in this space give people an impression. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:17.240 So I keep saying, go listen to it for yourselves, 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:18.399 or go read it for yourself. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.359 If not that, then TJ, what would you believe his 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:22.560 intent was? 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.000 He knew his audience, and I do think he was 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:33.159 speaking from the heart, but also his intent if we 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.119 go to that being the intent is he speaking to 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.960 an audience that is welcoming that message. Meaning We've been 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:42.720 in Catholic school here for the past four years, a 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.640 conservative Catholic school. We've heard a lot of teachings about 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.440 the vocation of marriage and Saint Peter's saying that women 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.639 are the weaker vessel, right, So that might be in 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.919 their minds. They might be struggling with that idea. What 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.640 do I do. I want to be a good Catholic, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.680 I want to be a successful so I don't know 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.320 that part and how welcoming it is for that audience 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.639 to hear. Ah it worked for him. Ah, it worked 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:07.840 for them. Oh it's okay for me to be this way. 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.200 Oh it's okay for me to express myself. Because he's 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.560 doing so, he's expressing something you could absolutely have issue with, right. 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.879 I am just trying to get more of an understanding 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.080 of his relationship to the people in that room. 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.240 Yeah. No, And to this, I will say this, and 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.600 I think this is true for any institution, especially a 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:29.480 religious institution. There are factions within churches. So the Catholic 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.800 Church is not just one unified church, even though I 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.880 know we're all under the Pope's umbrella, but you've got 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:37.680 the conservative faction. And then he even points out, as 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.320 you mentioned Joe Biden being a Catholic and yet supporting 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.159 abortion rights. He thought that was ludicrous. And you know, 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.679 I will argue that, you know, there are a lot 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.840 of phrases for Catholics, cafeteria Catholics, where you pick what 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.760 you like. But the point being is if you're all unified, 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.959 you know, to try and be better people. I just 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:58.600 I am I struggle with and I think probably a 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:00.800 lot of and I want to say a former Catholic, 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:02.280 so I don't want to put myself in that pool. 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:07.760 But a lot of Catholics get frustrated. They want there 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.480 to be more of a unified vision, and I think 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:13.639 it is confusing and different popes have different ways of 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.280 looking at it. I actually looked up some of what 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.160 religious Catholic leaders have said about women working outside of 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:25.240 the church, and I actually I loved reading a little 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.600 bit of what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger spoke about because he said, 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.640 I'm going to quote him here, women who freely desire 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.160 will be able to devote the totality of their time 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.040 to the work of the household without being stigmatized by 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:42.200