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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, He's won three Super Bowls and you probably

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Speaker 1: didn't know his name. He gave one commencement speech at

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Speaker 1: a tiny college in Kansas, and now everybody is talking

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Speaker 1: about him. Welcome, folks to this episode of Amy and TJ,

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Speaker 1: a special episode that we didn't plan on doing, but

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Speaker 1: robes a lot of conversation privately here was prompted by

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Speaker 1: what we're now seeing, as I guess you could call

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Speaker 1: it backlash for the speech that Harrison Butker of the

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Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs gave at a college in Kansas.

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Speaker 2: That's right. I first saw some of the noise the

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Speaker 2: reaction to his speech yesterday and went on to actually

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Speaker 2: read the transcript under you actually watched the speech. I

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Speaker 2: watched some of it to see what all of the

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Speaker 2: fuss was about. But I came to you and my

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Speaker 2: jaw dropped. I was and initially felt much of what

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing A lot of women felt when they heard

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Speaker 2: or read what he said. To sum it up, he

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Speaker 2: said a lot in his speech to the graduating class

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Speaker 2: giving the commencement speech there over the weekend.

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Speaker 1: And context though who he was giving this.

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Speaker 2: He was giving the speech to the graduating class of

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Speaker 2: Benedictine College. It is a conservative Catholic college in the Midwest,

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Speaker 2: very close to where I spent my formative years in Missouri,

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Speaker 2: going and attending Catholic schools. I want to at least

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Speaker 2: put this out there. I am no longer a practicing Catholic,

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Speaker 2: but I was raised in the Catholic faith in the Midwest.

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Speaker 2: My parents are still devout Catholics, as is much of

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Speaker 2: my family. So this was all a very interesting speech

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Speaker 2: that I did take offense to. Interestingly, TJ, you had

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a different reaction initially before you

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Speaker 2: kind of got into the details of the story.

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Speaker 1: Well, I saw someone's reaction to what we often do,

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Speaker 1: right with social media and things that can become hot

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Speaker 1: button issues and clickable, I suppose. So I saw a

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Speaker 1: lot of the reaction I was reading about his speech

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Speaker 1: before I actually saw the speech, and once I saw

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Speaker 1: the speech and got a little more context, not in

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Speaker 1: some agreement one way or another with anything he said,

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Speaker 1: but rather where he was coming from, what he was saying,

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Speaker 1: why he was saying, and how personally it was to

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Speaker 1: him and the audience he was talking to. It changed

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Speaker 1: a little. It didn't change what he said, but it

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Speaker 1: changed some of the I guess some of the things

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Speaker 1: I read, I believe were meant to be a little

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Speaker 1: more clickable if you will. And this, you know, it

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Speaker 1: always drives me crazy. And things like this happened. Everybody

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Speaker 1: just here, we go, go to our respective corners, let's

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Speaker 1: come out, let's fight, and then let's go back to

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Speaker 1: our corners. And nobody learned anything, and nobody got anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And this is just another opportunity I thought, to have

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Speaker 1: a better and a broader conversation and more understanding about

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Speaker 1: what exactly he said, but also about the church and

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Speaker 1: how many other people might feel the way he does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there were a couple of groups who were

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Speaker 2: offended by what he said, a lot of especially working women,

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Speaker 2: I would say, and members of the LGBTQ community as well.

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Speaker 2: So there were there were two things to address. But

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Speaker 2: I'll start with the women just because, as again, I

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Speaker 2: was raised in the Catholic faith and am a working woman.

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Speaker 2: So it's an interesting position to be in.

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Speaker 1: And it's fair to say, right, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: in there. I mean, he went after President Biden on abortions.

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Speaker 1: He threw in diversity, equity and inclusion, a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff was in there, But is it fair to say

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Speaker 1: I think I felt that way that the thing that

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Speaker 1: most people were worked up about or writing about had

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Speaker 1: to do with his comments about women and being a homemaker.

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Speaker 1: Is the word he Yes, would you say that's the

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Speaker 1: thing that got most correct?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And then and then I actually went into a

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Speaker 2: deep dive as you did as well this morning, because

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Speaker 2: even though I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school

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Speaker 2: in the Midwest, I still was a little bit unclear

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Speaker 2: about where the Catholic Church officially stands on women working

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Speaker 2: outside of the home. And I feel like I got

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Speaker 2: some clarity. Although there's always you can read anything anyway

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Speaker 2: that you'd like. People take the Bible and things that

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Speaker 2: Pope say, you know, literally, and sometimes people take it

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Speaker 2: to fit the context they want it to, so it's

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Speaker 2: always up for interpretation. I'll put that out there. But

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Speaker 2: the biggest thing that I took offense to look, he's

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Speaker 2: talking to a bunch of men and women who have

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Speaker 2: just spent four years at university and are graduating, And

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Speaker 2: I mean I encourage everyone to go and listen to

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Speaker 2: the speech or at least read the transcript of the

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Speaker 2: speech as well, because this is just a summation of

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Speaker 2: a few parts. But he he spoke to the women

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Speaker 2: in the in the room specifically saying I want to

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Speaker 2: speak to you directly, he says, and I'm gonna quote

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Speaker 2: him here because I think it is you, the women

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Speaker 2: who have had the most diabolical lies told to you.

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Speaker 2: How many of you are sitting here now about to

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Speaker 2: cross the stage and are thinking about all of the

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Speaker 2: promotions and titles you're going to get in your career.

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Speaker 2: He goes on to say, some of you may go

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Speaker 2: on to lead successful careers in the world, but I

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Speaker 2: would venture to guess that the majority of you are

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Speaker 2: most excited about your marriage and the children you will

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Speaker 2: bring into this world.

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Speaker 1: He goes going to stop, Yes, go ahead, and now,

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Speaker 1: so right there, where does what in that I don't

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Speaker 1: want to completely break down word for word here too much,

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Speaker 1: but in what he's saying there, you're you said you're offended.

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Speaker 1: So the offense in that I'm aware for you.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I understand the audience. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: he received a standing ovation at the end of this speech,

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Speaker 2: we should point that out. You could say he knew

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Speaker 2: his audience. This was a conservative Catholic university. But I

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Speaker 2: guess I also just have initially an issue with a

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Speaker 2: man telling women saying I would venture to guess that

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Speaker 2: the majority of you. I feel like that's a very

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Speaker 2: presumptive way to start any sentence, and then to go

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Speaker 2: on to say something about, even though you just spent

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Speaker 2: four years educating yourself and getting your career, you're more

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Speaker 2: excited about being a wife and a mother. I think

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Speaker 2: that's incredibly presumptive, and that therein lies some of the offense.

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Speaker 1: Now if I'm not the weeds, but not even semantics,

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Speaker 1: but words matter. But I'm looking at this, the quote

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Speaker 1: you just read to everybody. If he would have changed

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Speaker 1: that language that said, I would venture to guess that

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Speaker 1: the majority of you are most excited about your marriage

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Speaker 1: and the children you'll bring into the world. If he

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Speaker 1: would have said, but I bet some of you are

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Speaker 1: most excited, I would guess a few of you. If

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Speaker 1: he would have changed that to not a presumption that

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Speaker 1: I know what most women in this room are thinking.

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Speaker 1: Would that have made a difference, It.

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Speaker 2: Would have softened it. But I think you are stepping

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Speaker 2: into dangerous territory when you are presuming, especially that the

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Speaker 2: majority of a sex you don't know anything about truly

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Speaker 2: to be and what it is to be a woman.

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Speaker 2: I think that immediately raises eyebrows and makes people feel like, wait,

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Speaker 2: who are you to speak for us?

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Speaker 1: That is, and I'll go back on a lot of

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Speaker 1: emphasis is put on him, an attention on him, but

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Speaker 1: he's speaking to an audience like you said. That gave

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Speaker 1: him a standing ovation at the end, and he was

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Speaker 1: not booed, nobody walked out. There was no protest when

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Speaker 1: he said this. Can we venture to say that this idea,

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Speaker 1: that line, that sentence is something that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in that room, and maybe a lot of people

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Speaker 1: outside of that room in the Catholic faith would completely

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Speaker 1: agree with.

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Speaker 2: There are people inside and outside of the Catholic faith

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Speaker 2: who would agree with that. I'm sure, and I'm not

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Speaker 2: here to say that it's wrong to be excited about

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Speaker 2: those things or for that to be the thing you

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Speaker 2: want to do after getting a college education or foregoing

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Speaker 2: an education, becoming a wife and a mother. I have

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Speaker 2: no issue with that at all. I mean, my mother

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Speaker 2: herself was a wife and a mother before getting educated.

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Speaker 2: Waited until we went back to school to get educated,

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Speaker 2: and waited until we were well on our way before

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Speaker 2: she became a teacher. So you know, I applaud all

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Speaker 2: the women out there who are able to be able

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Speaker 2: to make that decision. And that's a clear distinction, because

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Speaker 2: so many women don't have the choice to be homemakers

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Speaker 2: or to not enter the workforce for financial reasons. So

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a whole group of women who I'm

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Speaker 2: sure feel very upset about the fact that somehow it's

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Speaker 2: a choice. It's not always a choice. I think that's

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Speaker 2: a very clear distinction to make. But also I just

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Speaker 2: want to say, being raised in the Catholic Church, in

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Speaker 2: a very conservative Catholic school in the Midwest, I never

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Speaker 2: once ever felt or heard anyone, no priest, no, certainly

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Speaker 2: not my parents, suggest that at my main vocation in life,

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Speaker 2: my main purpose in life was to become a wife

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Speaker 2: and a mother and that would be me serving the church.

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Speaker 2: I never ever heard that. Now, I will also just

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Speaker 2: say this because I want to be fully transparent. One

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Speaker 2: of the reasons, and I would say the main reason

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Speaker 2: that I felt I just didn't feel comfortable in the

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Speaker 2: Catholic Church and I ultimately left the Catholic Church was

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Speaker 2: because of many of their stances on women's reproductive rights.

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Speaker 2: So I don't agree with the Church's stance on much

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Speaker 2: to do with women, but I will firmly say that

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Speaker 2: I never felt like there was not just a push

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Speaker 2: for me to not work, but even you know, a

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Speaker 2: duty of me not to work outside of the home.

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Speaker 1: But can that also be not women aren't allowed to

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Speaker 1: be priests? This idea here of the vocation there is

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Speaker 1: a sacrament right as a vocation is called. It's a

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Speaker 1: vocation of marriage in the Catholic Church, is it not? Yes?

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Speaker 2: No, And I have I have completed all the sacraments

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Speaker 2: through marriage. And both of my daughters, by the way,

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Speaker 2: have gone through Catholic school, Catholic upbringing, and have completed

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Speaker 2: all of their sacraments through confirmation.

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Speaker 1: So I'm getting in what I'm sticking with this this

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Speaker 1: quote here, the idea that someone in the Catholic Church

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Speaker 1: who is making a a devout Catholic who is making

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Speaker 1: a speech to a conservative Catholic school saying something like

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Speaker 1: this isn't far fetched? Is it? For me? It was

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Speaker 1: to that that guy at that school making that speech

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Speaker 1: is not far fetched for us on the outside potentially,

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Speaker 1: but for his audience, and they invited him in this.

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Speaker 1: This didn't come out of left field, is what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying to this audience.

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Speaker 2: Yep, No, I hear you and I and to your point, yes,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that school intimately, obviously, I just know

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Speaker 2: that I have had the experience of being in a

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Speaker 2: conservative Catholic educational system and those points were never made.

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Speaker 2: No one ever said anything like that. So this is

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Speaker 2: the first time I've ever heard that. I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: that this isn't in line with what this school teaches,

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Speaker 2: but I have I personally and I've had the experience

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Speaker 2: of being in a conservative Catholic educational system. I have

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Speaker 2: never heard anyone say anything like that.

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Speaker 1: About the idea of being excited about being married and

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Speaker 1: having children. Because I'm just looking at his wowing.

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Speaker 2: A career and being more excited about that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to put words in his mouth. Where

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Speaker 1: did you see him say for tell them to forego

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Speaker 1: a career. This is one of the things I always get.

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Speaker 1: Do you know this, because we dealt with a lot

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Speaker 1: of people.

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Speaker 2: May not have directly said it, TJ, but he certainly

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Speaker 2: indirectly said it because he then talked about his wife

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Speaker 2: giving up her career to be a wife and a

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Speaker 2: mother and to support him so to be his wife,

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Speaker 2: to be their children's mother. And he then went on

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Speaker 2: to say, if she has any regrets on her decision,

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Speaker 2: if you're asking that, she would laugh out loud without

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Speaker 2: hesitation and say heck no. So he was certainly applying,

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Speaker 2: and I will say this. He also said that women

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Speaker 2: and he was saying that could be much happier doing

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Speaker 2: this than being in the workplace. I'm just saying again,

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Speaker 2: he is taking something that he has experienced that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people have experienced. And I'm not saying that

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Speaker 2: that isn't true, but to be saying this to a

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Speaker 2: group of women who have just spent four years preparing

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Speaker 2: to be in the workforce potentially or at least to

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Speaker 2: be educated, to have the opportunity to to say, you

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Speaker 2: could be so much happier if you disregard the outside noise.

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Speaker 2: And I'm assuming he's referring to the media and to

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Speaker 2: liberals in the world, because he does reference them throughout

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Speaker 2: this speech to move closer to God's will, implying that

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Speaker 2: God's will is for women to be wives and mothers,

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Speaker 2: and so that is where the offense or that's where

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Speaker 2: the rub lies. Therein lies the roub. I guess the phrase,

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Speaker 2: but that is where I think a lot of women

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Speaker 2: it took issue.

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Speaker 1: Well. I would encourage everybody to not even just read it,

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Speaker 1: if you greet it, if you get a chance, but

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Speaker 1: I encourage you to actually listen to it. And again

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Speaker 1: there's there's everybody can disagree about the position of or

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Speaker 1: anybody who takes a position that women should be in

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Speaker 1: the home. That's silly, that's outdated, that's not even in

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Speaker 1: existence necessarily, or shouldn't be something we should talk about

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Speaker 1: in a serious manner. Quite frankly, I just in this

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Speaker 1: conversation where it gets it looks like everybody's dumping on

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Speaker 1: this guy. And I was trying to understand as a

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Speaker 1: whole the stance of the people in that room, of Catholics,

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Speaker 1: of Catholicism, of the religion, and what it actually says.

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Speaker 1: And in listening to him, you can infer or jump

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Speaker 1: to a conclusion. But I in him talking about his

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Speaker 1: experience gives an impression and why isn't that okay right

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Speaker 1: if his experience was as such? And the rest I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you have there as a part of

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Speaker 1: the quote you gave about marriage and children you bring

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Speaker 1: into this world. Quote he says, I can tell you

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Speaker 1: that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to

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Speaker 1: say that her life truly started when she began living

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Speaker 1: her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm

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Speaker 1: on stage today enable to be the man I am

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Speaker 1: because I have a wife who leans into her vocation.

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Speaker 1: I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me.

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Speaker 1: But I cannot it cannot be overstated that all of

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Speaker 1: my success is made possible because of a girl I

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Speaker 1: met in band class back in middle school and would

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Speaker 1: convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one

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Speaker 1: of the most important titles of all homemaker. Now getting

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Speaker 1: through that quote, he was tearing up and got emotional.

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Speaker 1: After he made that quote, he got what I believe

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Speaker 1: was the only mid speech applause, and it went on

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Speaker 1: for or ten fifteen twenty seconds on that line in

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Speaker 1: that audience. Now that quote, do you also take issue

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Speaker 1: with him? He's explaining his situation, what his experience has

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Speaker 1: been in the vocation of marriage.

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Speaker 2: So I would say this, first of all, he has

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Speaker 2: every right to say what he feels, and there are

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Speaker 2: certainly plenty of people who want to go back to

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Speaker 2: that way of life. That and the reason why the.

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Speaker 1: Minority aren't they those people? We have to say that I.

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Speaker 2: Think so, I believe so I wouldn't. I wouldn't want

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Speaker 2: to speak to just how many people feel that way.

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Speaker 2: But I can tell you how I feel. Women have

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Speaker 2: spent the last century fighting for rights not to have

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Speaker 2: a choice. We've spent, you know, since the beginning of

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Speaker 2: history our lives as women on this planet in subservance

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Speaker 2: to men. We didn't have any rights. We couldn't own property,

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Speaker 2: we couldn't get educated, we had no opportunity beyond being

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Speaker 2: a mother and a wife. And so all of the

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Speaker 2: women who have fought for women's rights, from education to

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Speaker 2: opportunity to equal pay, all of that to hear a

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Speaker 2: man say that he gets to be the man he

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Speaker 2: wants to be because the woman is sacrificing, because the

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Speaker 2: woman is subservient, because the woman is foregoing any professional

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Speaker 2: career or aspiration she may have to serve him so

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Speaker 2: that he can be the man he needs to be.

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Speaker 2: He also invited men to lean into their masculinity. So

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Speaker 2: I just think that's why you know, you've spent all

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Speaker 2: this time trying to have But that's what it invokes.

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Speaker 2: It invokes that feeling, and that's why there's a motion

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Speaker 2: attached to it.

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Speaker 1: That's why I say that it invokes a feeling. But

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Speaker 1: I think, and I didn't want to do this here,

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Speaker 1: but there's so much context, And I say context, we're

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Speaker 1: paraphrasing some of the direct things he said and jump

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Speaker 1: to conclusions about what he said. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: do that. You can have an opinion about what he said,

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Speaker 1: but to us to assign how he feels and what

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Speaker 1: he's telling everybody else based on his experience, I think,

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Speaker 1: I just I want to be careful about going too

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Speaker 1: far there. Yes he said it, but some of the

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Speaker 1: idea that he is saying you need to be subservient,

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Speaker 1: you can't. He's talking to a graduating educated people who,

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Speaker 1: like you said, Now, the women in that audience do

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Speaker 1: have a choice. They have a choice about the vocation

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Speaker 1: of marriage, and they have a choice in education and

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Speaker 1: what they want to do because they just got it.

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Speaker 2: So I.

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Speaker 1: Want and I'm curious about a wider view that Catholics

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Speaker 1: have about this this idea and again, it's a vocation

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Speaker 1: of marriage, it actually is a thing that's assigned in

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. That's it is your role, your job,

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Speaker 1: your duty, both though, But I just I just want

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Speaker 1: to hesitate to jump to a conclusion about what I

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Speaker 1: think is in his heart versus what he said.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and I think he was extremely genuine and I

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Speaker 2: think what he is saying works for him and his

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Speaker 2: wife and his family in a beautiful way. And I

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Speaker 2: don't fault them for that. I think that's incredible. I

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Speaker 2: think to each his own in terms of what is

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Speaker 2: good for you and your family and how you view

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Speaker 2: your faith.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just not full stop right now because.

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Speaker 2: He's encouraging other women, and I just feel like he

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Speaker 2: was absolutely encouraging other women and implying that they would

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Speaker 2: be happier if they leaned in on that vocation rather

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Speaker 2: than pursue a career outside that.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't see him say that anywhere. I felt that,

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Speaker 1: and nowhere did I see him make that statement that

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Speaker 1: you need to do this, do not go to work.

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Speaker 2: He didn't say that, but he was encouraging.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm sorry, you just said it, so I just

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Speaker 1: want to make sure we're clear on that. You said.

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Speaker 1: He's encouraging them not to work and to actually just

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Speaker 1: go be homemakers.

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Speaker 2: He was encouraging them to do that by saying they

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Speaker 2: would be happier if they did that.

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Speaker 1: Again, we need to go through and find the direct quote.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't want to assign that to him,

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Speaker 1: and now here in this space give people an impression.

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Speaker 1: So I keep saying, go listen to it for yourselves,

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Speaker 1: or go read it for yourself.

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Speaker 2: If not that, then TJ, what would you believe his

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Speaker 2: intent was?

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Speaker 1: He knew his audience, and I do think he was

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Speaker 1: speaking from the heart, but also his intent if we

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Speaker 1: go to that being the intent is he speaking to

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Speaker 1: an audience that is welcoming that message. Meaning We've been

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Speaker 1: in Catholic school here for the past four years, a

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Speaker 1: conservative Catholic school. We've heard a lot of teachings about

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Speaker 1: the vocation of marriage and Saint Peter's saying that women

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Speaker 1: are the weaker vessel, right, So that might be in

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Speaker 1: their minds. They might be struggling with that idea. What

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Speaker 1: do I do. I want to be a good Catholic,

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Speaker 1: I want to be a successful so I don't know

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Speaker 1: that part and how welcoming it is for that audience

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Speaker 1: to hear. Ah it worked for him. Ah, it worked

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Speaker 1: for them. Oh it's okay for me to be this way.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's okay for me to express myself. Because he's

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Speaker 1: doing so, he's expressing something you could absolutely have issue with, right.

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Speaker 1: I am just trying to get more of an understanding

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Speaker 1: of his relationship to the people in that room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And to this, I will say this, and

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Speaker 2: I think this is true for any institution, especially a

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Speaker 2: religious institution. There are factions within churches. So the Catholic

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Speaker 2: Church is not just one unified church, even though I

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Speaker 2: know we're all under the Pope's umbrella, but you've got

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Speaker 2: the conservative faction. And then he even points out, as

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Speaker 2: you mentioned Joe Biden being a Catholic and yet supporting

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Speaker 2: abortion rights. He thought that was ludicrous. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I will argue that, you know, there are a lot

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Speaker 2: of phrases for Catholics, cafeteria Catholics, where you pick what

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Speaker 2: you like. But the point being is if you're all unified,

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Speaker 2: you know, to try and be better people. I just

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Speaker 2: I am I struggle with and I think probably a

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Speaker 2: lot of and I want to say a former Catholic,

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Speaker 2: so I don't want to put myself in that pool.

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Speaker 2: But a lot of Catholics get frustrated. They want there

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Speaker 2: to be more of a unified vision, and I think

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Speaker 2: it is confusing and different popes have different ways of

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Speaker 2: looking at it. I actually looked up some of what

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Speaker 2: religious Catholic leaders have said about women working outside of

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Speaker 2: the church, and I actually I loved reading a little

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Speaker 2: bit of what Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger spoke about because he said,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to quote him here, women who freely desire

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Speaker 2: will be able to devote the totality of their time

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Speaker 2: to the work of the household without being stigmatized by

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Speaker 2: society or penalized financially of aka the homemaker, while those

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Speaker 2: who wish also to engage in other work may be

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Speaker 2: able to do so with an appropriate work schedule and

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Speaker 2: not have to choose between relinquishing their family life or

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Speaker 2: enduring continual stress with negative consequences for one's own equilibrium

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Speaker 2: and the harmony of the family. And I also like

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Speaker 2: he went on to say talking about the genius of women,

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Speaker 2: and he said that women should be present in the

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Speaker 2: world of work and in the organization of society, and

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Speaker 2: that women should have access to positions of responsibility which

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Speaker 2: allow them to inspire the policies of nations and to

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Speaker 2: promote innovative solutions to economic and social problems. But they

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Speaker 2: all make the caveat that it somehow, any of that

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Speaker 2: work is in the detriment or somehow you know, is

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Speaker 2: a negative to the family life. Then the woman needs

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Speaker 2: to choose her family over work. And so that has

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Speaker 2: been an absolute current, like a consensus that women can

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Speaker 2: work unless it affects the family.

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Speaker 1: Well, I suppose any woman who makes that choice for

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Speaker 1: herself no one should take issue with. But if anyone,

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Speaker 1: any religious leader, is encouraging her to do so, there

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Speaker 1: in lies the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yes, true, yeah, yes, I mean well, yeah, the.

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Speaker 1: Choice itself is not is just the woman makes the choice.

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Speaker 2: That's correct. But and I do think there is an

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Speaker 2: emphasis though that it is a woman's responsibility to make

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Speaker 2: sure her children and her family are good, basically in

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Speaker 2: addition to working outside of the home. But I also

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Speaker 2: love something else that the Catholic I want to try

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Speaker 2: to read something. It was something really cool about the

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Speaker 2: reference in the in the Bible to me. Sorry, I

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Speaker 2: had something I wanted to bring it up, and maybe

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Speaker 2: I thought it was it was basically not referencing that

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Speaker 2: it was a woman's responsibility or a mother's responsibility, but

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Speaker 2: it was a parent's parents responsibility. So there was no

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Speaker 2: distinguishing between women and men. That it was this was

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00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 2: in the this was in the Catholic doctrine, that it

438
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: wasn't specifically women, that it was parents. And I mean,

439
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: I think that's what I would argue most women, and

440
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: I think a lot of men, most men believe as

441
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: well that this is a shared responsibility, isn't solely based

442
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 2: on the shoulder of women.

443
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that same Bible we speak of says that husbands,

444
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: in the same way be considerate as you live with

445
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: your wives and treat them with respect as the weaker

446
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: partner and as airs with you of the gracious gift

447
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: of life. That's Saint Peter, right, So you can there's

448
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff later throughout there, but all this

449
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: stuff was written at different times. We all know there

450
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: is and should be equality these days. If you choose

451
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: to be only a working woman, or we want to

452
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: be a working mom, you can just be a mom.

453
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 1: Everybody can make that call. But if that line the

454
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 1: first quote you gave had been delivered to that audience

455
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: by a woman. Would you feel differently about this? Would

456
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: anybody be talking about.

457
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: Oh, it would be a little different, but I think

458
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: people would still be talking about it.

459
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: This would make the same headlines, He would get the

460
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: same back.

461
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: It would not make the same headline if.

462
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: A woman got up then said, I would venture to

463
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: guess the majority of you are most excited about your

464
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: marriage and the children you will bring into this world.

465
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it would not have the same

466
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 2: fever pitch for sure. And didn't you say, by the way,

467
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: this is interesting and speaking to a point you made

468
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: when we were talking about this before the podcast, about

469
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: the role of Benedictine College and what they knew was

470
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: going to be said and what they probably knew what

471
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: they were getting when they asked him to speak. He

472
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: gave a similar commencement address at Georgia Tech, his alma mater, correct,

473
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 2: and no one picked up on it.

474
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: It wasn't as long and he didn't go as hard,

475
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: but he made some of the same some of the

476
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: same claims. I think he even stopped or paused in

477
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: that one kind of tongue and she kind of smiled

478
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: a little bit where he said I'm going to say

479
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: something here about your future or something you need to

480
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: do to be successful. He said, get married, had a family.

481
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: He said this to the graduating class of Georgia Tech,

482
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: so it's not it was a shorter speech and didn't

483
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: get much attention. But yeah, this is something he has

484
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: been talking about for a while.

485
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: And it's also interesting. I just want to point out

486
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 2: his mother, his own mom has worked outside of the

487
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: workplace in a very distinguished way. In fact, his mom Elizabeth,

488
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: but she's a medical physicist in the Department of Radiation

489
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 2: Oncology at the Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta.

490
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: They're in Georgia, so she is and was a working mom.

491
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 2: So it's an interesting I would be really curious to

492
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: see what she has to say. And she may be

493
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: in full support of her son and agree with everything

494
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: he said, but it is an interesting position to find

495
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: that she not only worked outside of the home, but

496
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 2: you know, in a very very elevated, dedicated way.

497
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: Well, we don't want to go as far as we're not.

498
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: Don't suggesting he's anti women working.

499
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what he is. I mean, it just

500
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: it felt. Look, here's the deal. I will say this,

501
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: I think women who choose, And by the way, when

502
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: I say choose, not everybody has a choice, but the

503
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: women who have the incredible ability to choose not to

504
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: work for whatever reason, they're financially secure, because of their husbands,

505
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: or for whatever reason, they don't have to work outside

506
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: of the home, which is a very important caveat because

507
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 2: that and I know everyone says this and it sounds

508
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: even cliche, but my god, working at home as a

509
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: mother and a wife is absolutely the hardest job any

510
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: woman could undertake. It is thankless, it is selfless, it

511
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: is it never stops. You're on call twenty four to seven.

512
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: And my hat go. My hat's off to any woman

513
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: who chooses that, because to me, that is incredibly difficult

514
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: and incredibly beautiful and something to be proud of. So love,

515
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: I would have loved the idea, if you know, I'm

516
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: all about those women need more support. Those women need

517
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: to feel the love and the support from not only

518
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: their families, their husbands, but their communities and this world. Frankly,

519
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: that their jobs are important, probably the most important there

520
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: is to have. So I want to make that very

521
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: clear that I feel that way, and I think those

522
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: women need to have more support. So if he could

523
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: have freezed it in a way where it just felt

524
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: more supportive, unless you'll be happier if dot dot dot

525
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: at a commencement address.

526
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: Isn't that But if he made the commencement address at

527
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: the University of Arkansas, it would have been received differently.

528
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 2: It would have.

529
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: But he's making it to a place that he knows

530
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: is and maybe that's why he didn't go as hard

531
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: at Georgia Tech because it's.

532
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure why.

533
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: But the more connected people are to one another, the

534
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: more they feel alone. He said. I'm not sure the

535
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: root of this, but at least I can offer one

536
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: controversial antidote that I think though that I believe will

537
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: have a lasting impact on generations to come get married

538
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: and start a family. That's his quote from the Georgia

539
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: Tech speech. Wow, right, the techn engineer sitting out there

540
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: and he's encouraging them to do so. That tells you

541
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: he really sees in his life the importance of family

542
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: and marriage. He didn't go as far as with really

543
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: in that speech, but he was waiting on a conservative

544
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: Christian college to call, and he led loose on this

545
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: one a little bit. But at the same time, but

546
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: that idea is not crazy, It's not far fetched. Like

547
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: you said, you just had issue with.

548
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 2: His tone, his tone, his message. And you know, he

549
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: does not speak for all Catholics. I know that for sure,

550
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: and he certainly doesn't speak for women, and I think

551
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: that was a big part of the problem. But I

552
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: did appreciate you know, it's funny I brought this to you.

553
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: I had a very emotional reaction. Initially, I was outraged.

554
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: I actually felt it like in my chest it tightened.

555
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: I actually felt like emotional, like I felt like I

556
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: wanted to cry when I read what he said. And

557
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: then you're very measured and said, why is everybody jumping

558
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: on this guy? You know? And so it was cool

559
00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 2: to hear your take on it from the perspective of

560
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: everyone just wants to jump on the messenger, make them

561
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: into villains, make them into bad guys, ask for an apology,

562
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: ask for I know. The NFL did respond, yeah.

563
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: Just that they don't agree that his views aren't in

564
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: line with the nfls.

565
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: And speaking to that, I think a lot of that

566
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: was in reaction to what he said about Pride month.

567
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: You have the quote right, because you know he wasn't

568
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: just women. That was probably the biggest headline, but he

569
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: also made It was a very quick one line, but

570
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: it certainly packed a punch.

571
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: And it seemed done necessary. It was the one part

572
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: of the that seemed a little mean, seemed a little unnecessary. Again,

573
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: sorry to assign mean to it, but that was the

574
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: one thing I mean made like you said you talked

575
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: about He talked about Biden and some political.

576
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: Stocks, abortion, IVF sarrogacy.

577
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, but this line, he said, I'm saying all this here.

578
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: He was hoping what he said wouldn't be met with anger,

579
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: but instead met with excitement and pride. Not the deadly

580
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: sin sort of pride that has an entire month dedicated

581
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: to it, but the true God centered pride that is

582
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: cooperating with that d D DA DA. So it was almost

583
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: a line that wasn't necessary. He just used the word

584
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: pride and took an opportunity to take a shot at

585
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 1: the LGBTQ plus community in Pride Month. I thought that

586
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: was a little that was a little harsh.

587
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: Here's my big issue. Look, there are a lot of

588
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: amazing Christians and Catholics out there. I would say most

589
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: of them are, but The problem is when you take

590
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: religion and then you're divisive with it. I have an

591
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: issue with that. I mean, I just the whole What

592
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: would Jesus do? What would Jesus say? I do not

593
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: believe Jesus would have said any of those things. And

594
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 2: I think that is the frustrating thing for me to

595
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: see someone. And he has absolutely entitled to his opinion,

596
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: but I just don't think that's in this spirit of Christianity.

597
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 2: That's my personal belief and judgment. There's no place for

598
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: that in a commencement address. And that's absolutely what he did.

599
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: And he chose those words. You can tell he is

600
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: an incredibly intelligent human being, the words he chose, how

601
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: he spoke. He is a thoughtful, introspective, intelligent person. So

602
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 2: he chose those words carefully and he chose to say them.

603
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: And so yes, people get to react based on that.

604
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: This wasn't something that he said offhanded, a quick remark

605
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: and ad lib something he didn't think through or out.

606
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: He wrote this down and he said it deliberately with

607
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: a lot of intention.

608
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: And my issue again, I was re You told me

609
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: about it, and you were fired up about it last night,

610
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to I had no reaction because

611
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: based on what you were telling me and based on headlines,

612
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: I just didn't have a reaction to it. See why

613
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: people reacted, But so much of what I saw didn't

614
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: involve thought. It didn't involve a conversation, It didn't involve

615
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: any type of grace or an attempt to understand. It

616
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: was the same old stuff we do in this country

617
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: when things like this come up. This is an opportunity

618
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: for me. I learned a lot about Catholicism today because

619
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: of this guy, by looking it up and reading and researching.

620
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: But my issue was that why are we Why are

621
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: we not having a larger conversation or trying to get

622
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: some kind of an understanding to why a guy that

623
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: everybody is trying to cancel on social media, people even

624
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: calling for him to be let go by the Kansas

625
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: City chiefs. That where we're attacking this guy, then why

626
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: is there not some thought or criticism or conversation to

627
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: the college, to Catholicism, to the folks who invited him,

628
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: to the folks who I don't remember seeing a single

629
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: person sitting down at the end, and he got that ovation.

630
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: So something's going on. I'm trying to understand that better.

631
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: I understand, and it's unfortunate what happens on social media

632
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: that I get because we've been through it, and it's hate, hate,

633
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: hate that. So we might be missing an opportunity to

634
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: actually have a learn a little something about each other,

635
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: for men and women to have a better conversation, for

636
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: religious folks to have a better conversation.

637
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

638
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: And it just sucked that was getting a.

639
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: Little lost well, you know, and I appreciate that measured response,

640
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: and thatiate Your immediate response was to learn more. Your

641
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: immediate response was to first of all, watch and read

642
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 2: it all, but then to actually dig in and figure

643
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: out where he was coming from. And I think that

644
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 2: is something that the majority people do not do. And

645
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: I will admit initially, I mean, I do have the

646
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 2: background of I don't believe me, I don't know everything

647
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: far from it where it comes to the Catholic Church,

648
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: but I did have, you know, a fairly intimate understanding

649
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: of my experience in the Catholic Church. So it was

650
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: just I had a very visceral emotional reaction as a

651
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: former Catholic and a woman, But it was I actually

652
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: appreciate your response because it wasn't what I thought you

653
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: would respond with, and I respect it because I feel

654
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 2: like if more of us can react with an open

655
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: mind and a willingness to dig in a little bit

656
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 2: deeper and to take the emotional part of it and

657
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: just put it aside for a little bit. I mean,

658
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 2: I say that as somebody who reacted emotionally when I

659
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: first saw it, and I still feel emotional about it,

660
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: and I still feel pretty strongly about it. But if

661
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: we can all have conversations about it, we can get

662
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: a little bit closer to just understanding one another. We

663
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: don't have to agree with each other, and I don't

664
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: think we ever will, but if we can just understand

665
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: each other and show a little respect, you know, that

666
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 2: would go a long way in the conversation. And it's

667
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: been an interesting reaction between you and me about what

668
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: we both read and saw.

669
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: And the completely miss this one. I didn't miss, but

670
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: we even forgot this one because there was so much

671
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: stuff in there the world around us says we should

672
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: keep our beliefs to ourselves whenever they go against the

673
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: tyranny diversity, equity, and inclusion. That was his other line.

674
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: It bothered me a lot.

675
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: They go against the tyranny of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

676
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: Now that's other levels. He threw it in there. Now

677
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: that one seems he didn't give any he didn't allow

678
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: for any more conversation. He made a statement there and

679
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: left it for our interpretation. But to call it the

680
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: tyranny of diversity, equity, inclusion. I know there's a movement

681
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: in this country to get rid of those offices and

682
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: whatnot in companies and schools and states around the country.

683
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: I get that, But they call it the tyranny.

684
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: Well, easy to say for a white man, I just

685
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I think that is part of the offense,

686
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 2: that his experience is so singular, and most anyone who

687
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: isn't a white male, I would never say, I know

688
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: what it's like to be him. But to then say

689
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: for inclusionists and diversity and all those things to somehow

690
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: be something negative, that's also I have a I take

691
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: a huge issue with that, and again I think just

692
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: goes against the teachings of Fellowship and Christianity at its base,

693
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: at its root, we should be inclusive, we should be diverse,

694
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: we should be accepting, and certain parts of this world,

695
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: in this society do need extra support based on history

696
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: and current status. That's just the truth.

697
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm bumpstill looking at his tyranny line. It

698
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: was just it's hard to put it in full context

699
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: of what he was trying to say and why he

700
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: said it. He would have to explain I would lead

701
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: to hear what he's talking about here. But just on

702
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: its face, you you jump to a conclusion that he is,

703
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: you would the tyranny of diversity, equity and inclusion. That's

704
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: just that's just one to defend. But it just there's

705
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: no fuller context in the paragraphs. So I don't know

706
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: exactly what he was trying to say, but that that

707
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: don't look good. But yeah, it's it's we'll see what

708
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: happens that I don't I don't think as of this recording,

709
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: the Kansas City Chiefs have made a statement about it.

710
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: Then they might not. Look there's a lot of stuff

711
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: going on in the league that well, sometimes guys do

712
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: a lot worse than say some words that offend people. Yep.

713
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: So don't know if anything will come of it in

714
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: the NFL, but this was no. I appreciate it. I

715
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: didn't even want to do this episode, yes, because I

716
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: said whatever I upset about. I just don't want to

717
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: pile on or throw in some oounts. All right, Finn,

718
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: some outrage here, but I don't actually have it. And

719
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: I just saw it as a great opportunity to have

720
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: a conversation and to slow down a little bit. And

721
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: we do encourage everybody to read it or listen to

722
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: it and listen to the crowd and how the crowd

723
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: reacts to certain things. He says at times, Yeah, it

724
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: wasn't a hospital for out for him.

725
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't. And so I love that we're I mean,

726
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: we're having a conversation about having a conversation before you know,

727
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: going on to social media. And I argue that most

728
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: people who have well I shouldn't say this, but I

729
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: would imagine a lot of people who are hearing or

730
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: reading about this have only heard or read about it

731
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 2: on social media. And so take the time for yourself

732
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: to watch it and have a measured conversation about it.

733
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: Maybe we can all learn a little bit more about

734
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: each other.

735
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: And thank you women who are mothers, thank you women

736
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: who are wives, thank you women who are daughters, thank

737
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: you women who work. That is from Pope John Paul

738
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: and a letter to women in which he was almost

739
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: it's almost a love letter to women, you could argue,

740
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: but he that's quoted a lot of times back in

741
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five to where he said thank you to

742
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: women who work. Quote, we need only think of how

743
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: the gift of motherhood is often penalized rather than rewarded.

744
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 1: Even though humanity owes it's very survival to this gift,

745
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: much remains to be done to prevent discrimination against those

746
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: who choose to be wives and mothers. Paul John, Paul

747
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: your guy, what used to be your guy?

748
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's the people's the people's fault. Now

749
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: he's beloved, and that's the reason why he was canonized. Yeah, yeah,

750
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: I know. I mean, I I think I want to

751
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: close with this that you know, us women we're I

752
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: think we're we fill many roles. We work really hard,

753
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: whether we're working in the home outside of the home.

754
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

755
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: And I just hate to make or for any woman

756
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: to feel like they're less than or more then, or

757
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 2: better then or worse than if they choose what's right

758
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 2: for them and for their family. And I think that

759
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 2: was my biggest issue, just you know, support women no

760
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: matter what they do, and a man shouldn't. I just

761
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: don't think a man should be encouraging a woman one

762
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: way or the other. I think we need to support

763
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: whatever a woman feels is right for her. And that

764
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: is where I would like to end my contribution to

765
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: the conversation.

766
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: Is this a thing where it's going to turn into

767
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: one of those things where you the only option you

768
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: have in commenting about this story is to absolutely condemn him,

769
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: and anything short of condemning him in everything he said,

770
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: you are then opening yourself up to criticism. Is this

771
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: one of those things?

772
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: It's a tricky It's a tricky conversation that's been had

773
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: for decades and decades, and I just don't think there's

774
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 2: a right answer other than supporting women and their choices

775
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 2: and supporting women who don't have a choice. And no

776
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: woman should feel bad or guilty about doing what's right

777
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: for her and for her family.

778
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: What would you like to do today? Meeting one? No,

779
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to. I didn't want to suggest

780
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: or encourage you to do something that you didn't already.

781
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure you have a choice.

782
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I appreciate that. No One, I don't feel

783
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 2: that pressure. Thank you. Honey.

784
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: All right, folks, I encourage you to read it or

785
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: go watch it, but thank you as always for hanging

786
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: out with the two of us and hopefully this conversation

787
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: helped and move things forward a little bit and not backwards.

788
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: See y'all.

789
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: S