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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuda. Could we get some non spoilery super hero music.

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Speaker 2: That's my that's my sound effect for it. There it goes.

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Speaker 1: That's our super producer, mister Max Williams. I am Ben Bullen,

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Speaker 1: our Shazamer. Here are urah our hooray? Mister Noel Brown,

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Speaker 1: Noel how sock?

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Speaker 2: I just make sounds of my mouth. They pay me

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Speaker 2: for it for some reason. Do it well though?

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Speaker 3: I am doing well, And I've got to say that

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Speaker 3: I don't want to spoiler. No spoilers to your point,

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Speaker 3: but I had no idea that shazam stood for something

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Speaker 3: that it's a freaking acronym.

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Speaker 2: How cool is that? You know how much we love acronyms.

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Speaker 1: Everything's in acronym if you're weird enough.

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Speaker 3: If you give it value, Yeah, for sure. What are

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Speaker 3: we talking about today?

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Speaker 2: Ben? What are we shazaming?

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked, because for a long time,

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Speaker 1: like many filthy casual fans of comics and comedy or

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Speaker 1: I thought, I thought healthy casual.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that a gamer term? Don't?

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Speaker 3: But it sounds like a yeah, mat filthy, So is

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Speaker 3: that true? Fairwell, let's call it. Maybe this is sort

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Speaker 3: of like being a fair Weather fan like sort of

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Speaker 3: like you're not really in the weeds with this stuff.

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Speaker 3: You're not a day one or you only know the

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Speaker 3: movies that kind of fan wagon.

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Speaker 1: So they're so, uh bandwagon, fair Weather, filthy casual, call

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Speaker 1: me what you wish, fellow ridiculous historians. For quite for

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Speaker 1: quite some time, I thought that Shazam was the name

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Speaker 1: of the character. This is untrue. Shazam is the secret

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Speaker 1: magic word shouted out by the character Captain Marvel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but also the movies, the character is named Shazam

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Speaker 3: with the kid that turns into the guy who shouts

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Speaker 3: the word, and also the name of the magical wizard

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Speaker 3: who abused him. With all of these back, Okay, the

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Speaker 3: point being, ben all of this stuff gets real convoluted.

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Speaker 3: This is like a IP juggling competition that we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about today that is a lot longer than

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Speaker 3: a lot of people might realize.

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Speaker 1: How many Captain Marvel's are there?

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Speaker 3: Nol no idea. Then I've researched this stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess what like four I don't even know what, Lucia,

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Speaker 3: let's just get right into.

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Speaker 1: All right, all right, yeah, you're right, you're right. So

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Speaker 1: back in March twenty nineteen, with the help of our

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Speaker 1: research associate Jeff, we got in a bit of a

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Speaker 1: conversational pickle Shazam, the film about Captain Marvel and Captain

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Speaker 1: Marvel the other film about another Captain Marvel. We're in

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Speaker 1: theaters at the same time, through two different companies. They

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Speaker 1: are unrelated, they do not exist in the same universe,

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Speaker 1: and they are indeed a consequence, a result, a culmination

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Speaker 1: of a history, as you said, no, a legally fraught

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Speaker 1: history that goes back almost a century.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, that's the number I was looking for.

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Speaker 3: And ip, of course, most folks show because you don't

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Speaker 3: intellectual property, and that can get really fraught when you know,

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Speaker 3: something all of a sudden starts to pop off and

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Speaker 3: get really popular. And oh dear, that surely resembles my

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Speaker 3: cartoon character that I created. Uh, maybe it's time to

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Speaker 3: hire some lawyers and just see about that f around

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Speaker 3: and find out, if you will. Yeah, they aft around,

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Speaker 3: and they might find out that they are, in fact

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Speaker 3: in a situation known as copyright infringements.

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Speaker 1: Right, indeed, so funny thing happens at the comics stores

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Speaker 1: in June of nineteen thirty eight, you find a thing

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Speaker 1: called Action Comics number one, Action.

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Speaker 2: Commoss number of worth with a lot of money, right,

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Speaker 2: valuable piece. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: To the fellow enthusiasts, you might recognize this as the

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Speaker 1: print debut of DC Comics Superman. He comes out in

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Speaker 1: June of nineteen thirty eight, and just a year after

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Speaker 1: in Wiz Comics number two. I think they made it

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine, but it comes out in February

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty. Whiz Comics number two features guy named Captain

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Speaker 1: Marvel original name Captain Thunder. He is absolutely as though

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Speaker 1: we are in a court. Can we get like Max?

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Speaker 1: Can we get like a Casey on the case Law

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Speaker 1: and Order comic Court.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's surely in the folder. Stummare, there it is there.

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Speaker 1: It is so your order. Captain Marvel originally apt in Thunder,

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Speaker 1: is nothing like Superman other than the fact that he

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Speaker 1: looks exactly like Superman and has identical powers and a

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Speaker 1: slightly different outfit.

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Speaker 3: Guys, we're gonna get to this, but I have to

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Speaker 3: pose it right up front. I sometimes think people get

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Speaker 3: a little high on their creative horse, maybe giving themselves

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Speaker 3: more creative credit than they deserve. All of these characters

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Speaker 3: are just modeled after Greek gods. Man, It's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: what an individual imbued with super strength who can fly?

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Speaker 3: Never heard of that before, never read the you know,

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Speaker 3: Greek mythology on.

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Speaker 2: A million percent dude.

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Speaker 3: And that even comes in with the whole what the

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Speaker 3: acronym shazam means, which we're gonna save and get to

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Speaker 3: in just a minute.

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Speaker 2: But I just wanted to put that out there right now.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of this is a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a pissing contest, and we do see where the

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Speaker 3: law ultimately sides.

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Speaker 2: But none of these ideas are particularly unique.

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Speaker 3: You know, a magical individual who can fly and lift

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Speaker 3: heavy things.

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Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell is nodding in agreement from Beyond the Grave,

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Speaker 1: the author of Hero with a Thousand Faces. No one

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Speaker 1: has accused human storytelling technology of originality. So let's learn

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Speaker 1: a little bit about our buddy. Captain Marvel knee Captain

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Speaker 1: Thunder comes out through an outfit called Fawcet Comics again

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Speaker 1: publication in nineteen forty and Captain Marvel has a cool

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Speaker 1: thing that's very appealing to the demographic of Fawcet comics.

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Speaker 1: He is a twelve year old boy named Billy Batson.

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Speaker 1: He's an orphan and in his origin story, he follows

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Speaker 1: a stranger into the subway, and when he goes to

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Speaker 1: the subway, he meets a mysterious old man, a wizard

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Speaker 1: named Shazam. That's the actual It's like Frankenstein's Monster.

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Speaker 2: A million you know, yes, no exclamation mark though, is right?

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Speaker 1: So this so this wizard is like, stuff is messed up,

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Speaker 1: young Billy Batson, and you are the only hope for

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Speaker 1: all these crazy high stakes that I will not explain

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Speaker 1: why am just because he happened to be the one

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Speaker 1: that followed him or does he have some mystical destiny

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Speaker 1: like you know, he's like you're reading the comic and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, I could do that. I should follow

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Speaker 1: more strangers into the subway.

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Speaker 2: That is not the takeaway.

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Speaker 1: That's that's apparently that's the application. So okay, So the

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Speaker 1: wizard imbues and I love that word imbuse or bruise

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Speaker 1: young orphan Billy with this power whenever he says the

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Speaker 1: word the magic word. The Wizard's name Shazam. Then he

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Speaker 1: acquires can we get some like M c U or.

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Speaker 3: D c U music, whatever you pick is certainly going

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Speaker 3: to go along with him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's uh, let's uh, let's round robin this please. Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what does Shazam stand for?

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Speaker 2: The wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules.

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Speaker 5: The stamina of Atlas, the power of.

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Speaker 2: This lighting strike, the courage of Achilles.

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Speaker 3: And the speed of Mercury.

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Speaker 1: Do you get it?

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's good that he didn't have the fatal

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Speaker 3: flaw of Achilles, right right.

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Speaker 1: He has his own heels, as we'll find he also U.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's uh, let's point out that there were a

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Speaker 1: couple of Greco Roman gods that were ignored in this.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have like the bad attitude of Hades, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't have the limp of Vulcan.

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Speaker 1: But he or Hephaestus, uh Captain Marvel for a time

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Speaker 1: surpasses Superman in popularity. It's a real Pepsi versus Coca

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Speaker 1: cola thing. In DC reads this. They do not exist

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Speaker 1: in a vacuum. And you can tell, as our old

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Speaker 1: pal research associate Jeff points out, you could tell because

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Speaker 1: Superman's powers evolve all of a sudden, inexplicably right after

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Speaker 1: Captain Marvel hits the scene.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely DC changed their hero to kind of go with

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Speaker 3: what this seemed like, the kids that were getting down

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Speaker 3: with before Captain Marvel. We know the famous line that

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Speaker 3: really does stick with it to this day, the property

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Speaker 3: Superman could leap.

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Speaker 2: Tall buildings in a single bound.

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Speaker 3: But that speed of Mercury, Man, it's got some heat

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Speaker 3: to it. So the idea that Superman was only propelling

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Speaker 3: himself over tall buildings with a with some powerful gams,

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Speaker 3: like a strong leap, but not necessarily the power of flight,

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Speaker 3: because the speed of Mercury granted Captain Marvel the ability

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Speaker 3: to fly. So before you knew it, Superman was up

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Speaker 3: there too, taking these guys. And it's funny, I've always

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Speaker 3: thought of that expression leap tall buildings in a single bound,

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Speaker 3: and in my mind I just squashed it together with flight.

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Speaker 3: But that's not what the original Superman did. He was

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Speaker 3: just a really good jumper, strong jumper.

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Speaker 1: And now it's a Now it's an incredible hulk power, right,

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Speaker 1: Hulk can't fly, but he can leap so well it's

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Speaker 1: all on smash.

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Speaker 6: Also, I just want to jump in here. The buildings

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Speaker 6: weren't as tall back then. They were, actually they were,

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Speaker 6: they were really tall.

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Speaker 1: I think, Max, that that reminds me of the first

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Speaker 1: time I saw at the Tower of London and I thought, dang,

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Speaker 1: I guess anything over three stories really was a skyscraper

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Speaker 1: back then.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: And you know some of them had the like the

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Speaker 3: little needle on top or the antennas just added a

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Speaker 3: little bit of height.

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Speaker 6: Jump in here. Actually, I remember when my aunt Jennifer

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Speaker 6: lived in.

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Speaker 4: Philadelphia, there was a law or rule or custom, I

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Speaker 4: don't know which one was that no building could be

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Speaker 4: higher than the hat of William Penn.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yep, uh, there's a There was a similar thing,

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Speaker 1: I think, uh for a while in DC and in

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Speaker 1: a couple of other cities around the world. Like d

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Speaker 1: C is a very a very large it's a large,

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Speaker 1: picturesque metropolis. But you're not going to see a ton

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Speaker 1: of skyscrapers. You're going to see one weird looking phallic object. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the Washington Monument Why is a nopolisk story for another day.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, I'm sorry, Max, Taller than the gentleman's hat Williams.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I probably explain it. There's a statue of.

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Speaker 4: William Penn on topic I thank you, thank you, a big,

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Speaker 4: a big statue, a big one. Yeah, and you know

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Speaker 4: it's William Penn. He had a larger than life.

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Speaker 2: That neck of the loans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in a burst of humility, they call it Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: So there are other key differences between the early Captain

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Speaker 1: Marvel and the early predecessor Superman. Captain Marvel franchises so quickly,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you got a whole Dare I say,

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Speaker 1: Justice League of Marvel's a Marvel family. There's Captain Marvel Junior.

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Speaker 1: There's Mary Marvel. There's a super cool old man. There's

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Speaker 1: Talkie Tawny who is a tiger who can talk.

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Speaker 2: Get it. And there's like there's like a.

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Speaker 1: Superpowered rabbit or hair if you're in Europe, Captain Marvel buddy,

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Speaker 1: and everybody loves these stories. Speaking of franchises, speaking of

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Speaker 1: as you raised the point earlier, Noel, speaking of IP

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Speaker 1: or intellectual property and derivatives thereof, there is a twelve

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Speaker 1: part film series of Captain Marvel. There's a radio show.

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Speaker 1: There's all sorts of swag. A young, a young, up

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Speaker 1: and coming allegedly malungeon entertainer named Elvis Presley out of

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Speaker 1: Tennessee is very into Captain Marvel Junior and.

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Speaker 3: Talking about yourself, right no, no, no, no no, My

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Speaker 3: have action is a little bit nastier, but yeah, talking

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Speaker 3: about old Elvis, right, yeah, Elvis Presley uh is said

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Speaker 3: to have borrowed his look from not Clark Kent, but

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Speaker 3: Captain Marvel Junior. The whole clean cut, mild mannered vibe

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Speaker 3: also comes into question once we get into the legal

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Speaker 3: battle of all of this. And it is interesting too

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Speaker 3: because it does seem like, you know, while we might

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Speaker 3: think of superhero Superman as the most iconic kind of

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Speaker 3: og superhero, it does seem like Captain Marvel got some

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Speaker 3: things right quicker. The idea of a super crew, you know,

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Speaker 3: like a superhero kind of squad. It seems like they

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Speaker 3: were right out of the gate with that. And it

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Speaker 3: would be a bit longer, I believe, before like the

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Speaker 3: Justice League came around.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, just so Justice So whatever, keep it, give me,

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Speaker 1: it's yours, I want to.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: So, by the mid nineteen forties, the original Captain Marvel

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Speaker 1: Akshizam as we call him today, by far the most

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Speaker 1: popular comic book superhero in the country, most popular comic

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Speaker 1: book character in general. Sorry, Popeye, Tutelou, Tutelou, Yellow Kid,

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Speaker 1: Betty Booth, Guitarzad. Superman basically comes in a year or

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Speaker 1: two before and gives birth to what we would call

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Speaker 1: the superhero genre today, launching the house Yon days of

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Speaker 1: the Golden Age of comics, and Superman is following up,

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Speaker 1: you know, pepsine coke again with Captain Marvel. Superman gets

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Speaker 1: his own radio show, he's in comic strips, he gets

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Speaker 1: a cartoon, he gets a TV series, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: get one thing that Captain Marvel gets, which is the

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Speaker 1: movie business.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, it's like the early days of movies,

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Speaker 3: but it's certainly an early era of this type of franchising, right.

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Speaker 1: Captain Marvel reaches the film industry first to date, Fellow

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Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, Captain Marvel is the first superhero ever to

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Speaker 1: be adapted, to have their story adapted into a motion picture.

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Speaker 1: And you know, now then I'm thinking of it, Noel Max,

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Speaker 1: you know what this reminds me of? It reminds me

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Speaker 1: of that poor kid in the TLC Day's Honey Booboo.

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Speaker 1: Remember that, Remember honey Booboo? Oh, I thought you meant

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Speaker 1: like TLC the R and B group. Now I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about the Learning Channel that eventually just became the amorphus TLC.

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Speaker 3: Yes, of course, honey Booboo. And what was her mom's name,

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Speaker 3: Mama June, Mama June.

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Speaker 1: I think that's how they went a lot of Thompson

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Speaker 1: is the name of the former child star, and people

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Speaker 1: started calling her honey Booboo because of her catch phrase

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Speaker 1: that was like her Shazam, and Captain Marvel became known

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Speaker 1: as Shazam anyway side dope.

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Speaker 3: So the studio behind the film was called Republic Pictures.

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Speaker 3: They were originally actually working with d C, which at

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Speaker 3: the time was called National Comics Publications to make a

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Speaker 3: Superman picture, but they already had an existing cartoon deal

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Speaker 3: with Paramount, which prevented them from signing another type of

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Speaker 3: property like that at the time. So Republic goes with

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Speaker 3: Captain Marvel instead, and DC was understandably post and Fawcett

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Speaker 3: Comics had already published Masterman, which was in and of

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Speaker 3: itself even more egregious.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't really fallout.

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Speaker 3: On either other side in terms of whether or not

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Speaker 3: Captain Marvel was an utter rip off of Superman. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: there's parallel thinking, maybe there was a little bit of

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Speaker 3: ripping off going on, but Masterman definitely obvious one to

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Speaker 3: one clone. Masterman also doesn't really roll off the tongue

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Speaker 3: very well.

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Speaker 1: It's like give me my It's like the alliteration, but

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Speaker 1: it's like give me my weird havana cigar and let

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Speaker 1: me kick my feet up at the comic book spot

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, a Superman, he's a he's he's

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Speaker 1: eating a lunch. What's another word for super uber It's

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Speaker 1: too German kolaba Masterman ulva.

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Speaker 2: Master's not great either.

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Speaker 3: I'm picturing like a southern gentleman in like a white

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Speaker 3: suit with his feet up, drinking a mid julib, watching

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Speaker 3: the field hands at work.

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Speaker 1: You know, Masterman's sound all right, the over survibe, I

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Speaker 1: feel you. Masterman sounds like in the early seventeen hundreds

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Speaker 1: it was an obscure crime, possibly true, a crime that

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Speaker 1: William Penn would have prosecuted or been found guilty of. Right, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I love how I love how we're all sort of

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Speaker 1: nodding with that one, So yeah, agreed, Masterman is an

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Speaker 1: even more obvious copy of Superman, and DC threatens a lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: They send like their version of what we would call

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Speaker 1: C and D a cease and desist. Faucett just says, okay, haha,

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Speaker 1: you got us, and they pull it. But they but

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Speaker 1: they're keeping with Captain Marvel, and DC is still really

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Speaker 1: beefed up about it. They're saying, Captain Marvel again is

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Speaker 1: just another guy who came after the guy that we

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Speaker 1: made up.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it interesting though, how this really does start to

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Speaker 3: feel almost like a superhero arms race.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was theander of that word in the research

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Speaker 1: as well. Like it is it is people attempting to, yeah,

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Speaker 1: come up with the the end doll be all like

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Speaker 1: quintessential super hero and stealing ideas from each other left

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Speaker 1: and right.

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: In June of nineteen forty one, National Comics sues Fawcet

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Speaker 1: Comics for copyright infringement, and this creates one of the

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Speaker 1: longest running legal battles in the history of comic books

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Speaker 1: and lasts over a decade. And National Comics is, by

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Speaker 1: the way, think of them as like the representative of

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Speaker 1: DC Comics, and they're saying, look, we came up with

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Speaker 1: this a year before you guys did, and then you

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Speaker 1: came up with a guy who looks exactly the same.

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Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: By the way, in case you're trying to picture the

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Speaker 3: word faucets and you're picturing a tap dripping water, it's

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Speaker 3: actually spelled like Pharah Fawcetts. Yeah Fawcett. So, as you said, Ben,

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Speaker 3: longest running legal battle in the history of comic books

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Speaker 3: at least, why don't we start with a little break

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Speaker 3: down of kind of how it started and how it's going.

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Speaker 1: For sure, Yeah faucet, Like Farah says, all right, we

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Speaker 1: get it, Yana. These I'm twiddling an invisible cigar this

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Speaker 1: whole time. All right, we get it, Yana. These two

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Speaker 1: characters are very similar, but it's not to the point

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Speaker 1: of infringement. I mean, think about Popeye, I think about Taza.

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Speaker 1: They already do all sorts of you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: superpower stuff. So who really is to blame? And then

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Speaker 1: National Comics or you know, DC's representatives, they they come

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Speaker 1: in and they go objection you Ana, here, we have

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Speaker 1: bin got to bind we gotta bind what's in the binder.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is kind of where it does start to

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Speaker 3: you know, I can see the issue where you start

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Speaker 3: to have these page by page comparisons of different comics,

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Speaker 3: over one hundred and fifty pages in fact, panels from

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Speaker 3: they are comics of Superman juxtapose with panels from Captain

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Speaker 3: Marvel with close details kind of like circle like Exhibit A.

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Speaker 3: Everything from costumes from the various you know, coutrema like

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Speaker 3: capes and boots, the various superpowers of course, flying abilities, strength, speed,

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Speaker 3: bullet invincibility, the ability to withstand explosions and shells and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that, the idea, the detail of a secret identity,

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Speaker 3: and they also edit. I think I mentioned this briefly

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Speaker 3: at the top. They also went so far as to

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Speaker 3: say that there was some copyright infringement going on in

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Speaker 3: the fact that they were both clean cut, clean shaven individuals.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no facial hair. That's a bummer for Max Nolla myself, folks,

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Speaker 1: No superheroes with facial hair. Also, I love invincibility to bullets,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily invincibility overall.

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Speaker 2: You just can't shoot at.

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Speaker 3: Them, that's right, And I guess I haven't seen the

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Speaker 3: Panels or the by Psyche comparison. But even some of

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Speaker 3: these things just on paper, not entirely unique.

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Speaker 2: I think there are examples of this. I mean when

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Speaker 2: you just modernize like a hero.

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Speaker 3: Of course, bullets are going to come into play, because

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Speaker 3: that's what all the baddies use, the gangsters. But when

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Speaker 3: they start circling things like costume similarities and very specific

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Speaker 3: like copy cat items from one comic issue to another,

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Speaker 3: with enough of those stacked up, got a pretty good

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Speaker 3: case on their hands, I would argue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the court agreed on to trial nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 1: The judge primarily ruled in favor of our friends over

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Speaker 1: at DC and said, Okay, this Captain Marvel guy is

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Speaker 1: an infringement on Superman and a lot of this comes

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Speaker 1: to us courtesy of our friends at Plagiarism Today dot com,

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Speaker 1: who creates that detail on it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna be really careful to cite them every

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Speaker 3: chance lest they come after us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's letter box over there. Yeah, let's also

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Speaker 1: shout out Jonathan Bailey. And this is a pretty recent

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Speaker 1: article that comes from May twenty ninth, twenty nineteen, talking

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Speaker 1: about the larger tale of captain Marvel and don't worry,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to your favorite marvels, your modern marvels, dare

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Speaker 1: I say in a moment. But obviously the courts have

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Speaker 1: to agree on the infringement here. It is kind of

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Speaker 1: obvious because who reads comic books at this time, people

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Speaker 1: who make comic books.

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Speaker 3: We have not yet reached the kind of mainstreaming of

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Speaker 3: comics that we know today. You know, we're every single mining,

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Speaker 3: every single piece of intellectual property from these canons. You know,

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Speaker 3: this back catalog of stuff to make you know, a

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Speaker 3: movie or television show or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's still coming from that that newspaper

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Speaker 1: comic strip origin, right, the idea of a whole book

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Speaker 1: of funny pages. That's why they're called cop books.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So the issue is there's the comic book issue. Is

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Speaker 1: there is a there is this halsey on era again

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Speaker 1: wherein it is kind of mainstreamed in print. But during

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Speaker 1: the post World War Two, in the early nineteen fifties,

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Speaker 1: the sales of these superhero comic books they're in the

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Speaker 1: can they're slumping. People are not making as much money,

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Speaker 1: and so Fawcet decides, hey, we can't really fight this case. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're already hemorrhaging money in sales, so they pay four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars in damages if we can inflation calculate,

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Speaker 1: and a dude a booth and a book, that's about

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Speaker 1: four million dollars today, and.

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Speaker 2: So certainly not chump change.

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Speaker 1: Not chump change. But Captain Marvel may have gone out

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Speaker 1: like a chump Fawcet Comics shut up their whole comic

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Speaker 1: book division and they bow out. This has intergenerational copyright consequences.

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Speaker 1: But this is not the end of Captain Marvel.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, actually not meanwhile.

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Speaker 3: It takes a little time fast forward, in fact to

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty six. Captain Marvel has largely become a dead property.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't until February of nineteen sixty six that the

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Speaker 3: pulp magazine Magnates Myron Fasts, which is, if there ever

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Speaker 3: were a name that felt right for a pulp magazine, Magnate,

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Speaker 3: Myron Fast has my vote, and Myron Fast publishes Captain Marvel,

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Speaker 3: which is considered by many in comic book circles.

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Speaker 2: It's just three circles to.

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Speaker 3: Be one of the worst, if not the worst, comic

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Speaker 3: books ever written.

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Speaker 2: Which you know, makes sense if you're thinking.

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Speaker 3: About what pulp magazines were famous for putting out.

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Speaker 2: It was crap a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: And our research is associate Jeff is Co citing that.

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Speaker 1: But folks, that comes from Britannica, the Encyclopedia Britannica is

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Speaker 1: telling us that Myron Fast as Captain Marvel is one

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Speaker 1: of the worst.

435
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, I get I'm assuming that Myron Fast and

436
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: maybe acquired this intellectual property after the decline or the

437
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: you know, I guess disintegration of Faust Comics. I don't

438
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 3: have that detail right here, but that would be the

439
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: only thing that would make.

440
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 1: Sense, right, that would be logical. And this Captain Marvel

441
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: is released around the same time Marvel Comics is riding high.

442
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: They've got Fantastic Four, They've got Spider Man, They've got

443
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: X Men. As you know if you follow superhero films

444
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: and adaptations, folks, Spider Man and X Men are making

445
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Fantastic four is also on the

446
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: way in the next few years.

447
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, though, if I'm not mistaken, both Spider Man

448
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 3: and X Men are similarly kind of like there's a

449
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 3: weird device disconnects between like two studios that have the

450
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: right box so.

451
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: Together.

452
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 6: Well, so Fox doesn't have them anymore. It's not anymore Disney.

453
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 4: Disney bought out that entire part of that studio and

454
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 4: got all that stuff.

455
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 6: That's when Disney bought out twentieth Century Fosh.

456
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: Shout out Kevin Page, the architect, the mad genius of

457
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: the MCU.

458
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 3: He also, like the Sony Spider Man movies are largely

459
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: considered be pretty bad until the Spider Verse movies, the

460
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 3: animated ones, which are I think regarded as some of

461
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 3: the best Spider Man films ever to be made.

462
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: And I would tend to agree with that.

463
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 4: The new ones with Tom Holland there's weird things products, there's.

464
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: A partnership with Marvels, and there are certain characters they're

465
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: not allowed to use or not allowed to cross feature

466
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: because the whole deal with the Cinematic Universe stuff is

467
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 3: to have appearances and a continuity.

468
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: So those are properties that tend.

469
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 3: To be a little confusing and convoluted, and I think

470
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: those deals are going to run out, and then ultimately

471
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 3: it all goes.

472
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: To let me, let me tell you guys what happening.

473
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: Let me tell you guys, what happened. So Marvel goes bankrupt.

474
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: Marvel as a comic book entity is in the tank,

475
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: and in their darker days, they start selling off properties,

476
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: their derivative IP, you could call it, to different companies,

477
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: and hence you have for a while twentieth Century Fox

478
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: owning X Men, and then a different company, Sony owned

479
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Spider Man. It was a fire sale. I don't I

480
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: don't even know if we want to do a bend

481
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: with fact thing on this.

482
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 5: That seeking the phone bed and PA's full in knowledge.

483
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: It's just for you right now.

484
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: It's an unpleasant story, and it explains a lot of

485
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: the weird, a weird attempts that we see these different

486
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: companies doing, you know, with the Sony Spider Man or

487
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: Spider verse, right they're trying to make a Venom verse

488
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: where Spider Man doesn't show up. They're trying to make

489
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: a morebius film.

490
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: Where that one didn't go super well, are you kidding?

491
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: No?

492
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: More fis No, it's more bs.

493
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 3: That's the Vampire one with Jared Leto that was apparently

494
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: I saw it on a plane actually, but I just

495
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: sort of tuned out because it was embarrassingly bad and

496
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: now there's this new Madam web movie. It is apparently

497
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: absolute garbage.

498
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: The comic books were good, but I don't know if

499
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: the creators were at the comics.

500
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 3: But is Madam Webb an official Marvel release or is

501
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: there another weird crossover here because it seemed of a

502
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: lower quality than the typical I know, Marvel Studio seems

503
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: to be struggling a little bit, but Madam Webb looked

504
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: like a B movie kind of it's and it is okay,

505
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: So it's still in the Spider Verse because Madam Webb

506
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: in the comics is uh is affiliated sort of with

507
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 3: the pantheon of Spider Man.

508
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: And so they've got this, They've got this whole legal

509
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: plaquemire going on, and our pal myron Us Myron, Myron thanks,

510
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: he loves his mother. Yeah, Myron, he's got to get

511
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: out a skid row, right, shout out the little Shop

512
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: of Horrors. It seems right, It seems obvious that he

513
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: is trying to uh claim this trademark. And it's kind

514
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 1: of like, in a weird way, it's like a print

515
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: version of those B movies that you would see, uh

516
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: straight to VHS and the days of Blockbuster, right, remember

517
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: those that not quite the same horror film. It wouldn't

518
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: be like uh, hell Raiser, it would be like heck

519
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: Ruckus hell Bringer.

520
00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah.

521
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: Well, and then you know, there was a company called

522
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: the Something O Jesus, I know what you're talking about,

523
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: But they coined the term mockbuster. Mockbuster, that's it, straight

524
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: to video things where literally part of their business would

525
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 3: be people confusing their thing for the real thing on

526
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: the shelves a blockbuster. That's what my asylum, I think

527
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: is what it was called. I want to say it

528
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: was called the Asylum. But he stead of snakes on

529
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: a plane, they did snakes on a train. But they

530
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 3: were leaning into that, and this whole deal is pre that.

531
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: But this is exactly right then, the absolute B movie

532
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: version of popular thing.

533
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: He did such a he got in trouble because he

534
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: also got too close to the actual properties and characters.

535
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: He used Plastic Man, which is a real DC character and.

536
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 3: A real rip up of mister Fantastic or vice versa. Hey,

537
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 3: I'm not even sure what order they came in, Hey,

538
00:31:54,440 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 3: law and order saying yeah, you're right, you're right.

539
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: Sustained doctor Fate And then how bad is this he

540
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: had a Batman character and he was like, well, we

541
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: can't call it Batman, We'll call him the bat Yeah.

542
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: Perfect ride.

543
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 3: Can we also, once again, no shade. This is all

544
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: first to market stuff. You can only come up with

545
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 3: Batman one time. It's not the most creative thing in

546
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 3: the universe. It's a guy who looks like a bat

547
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: and he's called Batman.

548
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, Spider Man has man bat Oh wait,

549
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: how do you.

550
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: Say the man? Wait?

551
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: But then there was the man bat in the Batman

552
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 3: the animated series, who was still weird mutant bat thing.

553
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And there's Batgirl. Oh sorry.

554
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: You can see how this stuff is even confusing for us,

555
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: and we're fans of this stuff, so it really does

556
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: get pretty convoluted pretty quick.

557
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: And so he uh, he has his own Captain Marvel

558
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: that he he makes a side This guy has a

559
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: like a Batman Robin relationship. In the Myron Fast stuff

560
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: and Myron Fast as Captain Marvel has a sidekick named

561
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: Billy Baxton with an X which is just a Batson

562
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: pretty close to Billy Batson. So you can see how

563
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: that didn't work out After just a few issues. Fast

564
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: as Captain Marvel disappears, and Marvel Comics has this look

565
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: around the room moment and they say, wow, these low

566
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: quality imitators, these grifters, they can do lasting damage to

567
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: everything that we represent. We have to go back to court,

568
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: we have to lock down this Captain Marvel name. And

569
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: so in I think it's like nineteen sixty six, the

570
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: publisher of Marvel goes to Myron Fast and says, look,

571
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: we'll give you six grand to the rights for Captain Marvel.

572
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 3: Okay, again, we don't even have to inflation calculator. You

573
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 3: could probably figure that was probably close to to like,

574
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 3: you know, fifty grand or maybe even one hundred grand

575
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 3: at the time. But when you think about where things

576
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: ended up with all the movies and how even minor

577
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 3: characters like that were big have become big money shout

578
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: out man exactly, the minorists of characters. That was probably

579
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: a little bit of a sweetheart deal there, know.

580
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it's so weird because Marvel, so Myron

581
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: Fast turns them down. Marvel goes ahead and says, forgiveness

582
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: V permission, We're going to introduce our own Captain Marvel,

583
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: a brand new Captain Marvel. And in nineteen sixty seven.

584
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: I want to say. They come out with Captain Marvel

585
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: on the twelfth issue of a thing they were running

586
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: called Marvel Superheroes, and Myron Fast says Marvel, gosh dotted,

587
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: I'll sue your pants off if infringing on by trademark

588
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: that I stole from you. And they say you're being

589
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: a cartoon And so my Ron Fast ultimately settles for

590
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: four thousand, five hundred dollars. And we've got a great

591
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: quote here at Noel. You'd love to do this one,

592
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: he says.

593
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: Our Captain Marvel was selling lousy anyway.

594
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: I mean, really, the only way to say that is like.

595
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 5: I was lousy. I was selling lousy. Who cares get

596
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 5: rid of it? For everyone on the trash.

597
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: Heap, for everyone listening along at home. Our pal Nol

598
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: is also twiddling a fake cigar at this point, and

599
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: us that's how publishers talk, right, It's true, they always have,

600
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: like a fake cigar. Not much happens for the next

601
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: twenty years. The original Captain Marvel is no longer publishing,

602
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: The name and the character, more specifically, stop being used

603
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight. That's where we get the current

604
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel. So this modern, this new Captain Marvel is

605
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: an alien. They make up a whole backstory, build out

606
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: a world for Captain Marvel's race. Captain Marvel, who is

607
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: not the current iteration played by Brie Larsen, is a

608
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: dude alien from a race called the Cree, or a

609
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: species called the Cree.

610
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 3: Which you might recognize from the Guardians of the Galaxy films.

611
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 3: And again, you know, I think like you yourself been,

612
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: I have friends who are deep into all of this

613
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: stuff and all of this lore and these various iterations

614
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: and the Cree have been around for you know, decades

615
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: and decades, and you know, really what Marvel Studios have

616
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: done is mind all of this intellectual property, sometimes taking

617
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: some creative liberties, sometimes being very true to the source material,

618
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 3: but it's essentially just an absolute, you know, pool of

619
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 3: stuff they can pull from to kind of like tell

620
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: these stories. And the Cree are a big part of

621
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 3: that as well as like introducing Thanos and stuff like that.

622
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: They got creative give it that drum. Yeah, all right,

623
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: So this, uh, this direct predecessor of the current Marvel,

624
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel is mar dash Vel and his Yeah, exactly,

625
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: just so, and This was an editorial necessity. They needed

626
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: to use the trademark, which is kind of also why

627
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: Loki Sony comes out with a Spider Man movie every

628
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: so often, because they have to use it to keep it.

629
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: So Marvel is uh is kind of checking the boxes

630
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: for Marvel. I mean, he he looks a lot like

631
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: he has this like a lot of the same superpowers.

632
00:37:59,760 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

633
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: He gets uh, he gets a different uniform. He has

634
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: gold wrist bands which you'll later see and stuff like

635
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: Captain Quantum and whatever. In Marvel, he's got a starbarst logo.

636
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: Uh he.

637
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: Uh.

638
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: He has a different sound effect when he strikes his

639
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: wrist together. He doesn't say shazam, but what triggers his

640
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: superpowers is the sound effect.

641
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: The tang, which is really just kind of like automatopoeia

642
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 3: for the sound that it might make when the risk

643
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 3: you know, braces or slapped the tang.

644
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, because because they're the Billy Batson in this is

645
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: a teenager named Rick Jones who finds these golden wristbands

646
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: the negative the megabands megabands.

647
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't sound good, it's that oh sorry, because

648
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: they're from the negative zone. They're from the.

649
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: Negative zone, got it. Yeah, so the the lore is there.

650
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: They put it in place, but I would prefer sh

651
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: as Am to a Katang. I don't know what do

652
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: you guys think?

653
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and the whole negative zone negative all seems a

654
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: little bit lazy if we're being honest.

655
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: We're being honest. The fans didn't really dig this, and

656
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: the sales reflected that. So Captain Marvel in this iteration

657
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 1: was always sort of on the cusp of being canceled.

658
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: And this is where we get to the actual Captain

659
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: Marvel that you may know and recognize from the Disney

660
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: brun MCU today. Carol Danvers makes her first appearance in

661
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: Marvel Superheroes issue thirteen, just after issue twelve, right in

662
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: March of nineteen sixty eight, and she originally is hanging

663
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: out with these alien cre She's hanging out with Marvel.

664
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

665
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 3: She actually gets abducted by a jealous Cree officer named

666
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 3: Jon Rog, which sounds weirdly cthulhuesque, and Marvel flies in

667
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: to rescue her in like you said, Captain Marvel at

668
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 3: number eighteen. Then there's a battle between Marvel and Yon Rag,

669
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 3: and during said battle, a device is exploded an ancient

670
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 3: Creed device called the psyche Magnetron, which is kind of

671
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: cool sounding.

672
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 2: I like that.

673
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: I might use that for I don't know, it could

674
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 3: be a cool band name or something. And it explodes

675
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 3: and creates sort of like a fallout area wherein Marvel and.

676
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 2: Danvers get bathed in this radiation.

677
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 3: Marvell presumably is being okay, being sort of you know,

678
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: extra human and all of that. And Danvers, however, transforms.

679
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 2: She's infused with Cree.

680
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 3: DNA and she actually gets powers very similar to those

681
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: of Marvel.

682
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: Dare we call her Captain Marvel? Not quite yet, because

683
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: for almost a decade, Danvers is just a second tier

684
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: recurring presence in the overall Captain Marvel series. It isn't

685
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: until the nineteen seventies when DC has wonder Woman wonder

686
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: Woman coming to like the cover of Miss magazine, that

687
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: the folks at Marvel look around and they say twiddling

688
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: the invisible cigar.

689
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: Indeed, hey, why don't we have a why.

690
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 5: We have a woman's superhero? Women's lib is hot right now?

691
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 5: We got this second wave feminism. We need to get

692
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 5: with it.

693
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: With the picture j Jonah Jamison banging the desk, bring

694
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: me a woman, Superhero any woman as quick as you can.

695
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 2: And then you know they you can kind of see.

696
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 3: Through the ploy here as well, even by the name

697
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 3: they plopped on her with as Miss Marvel.

698
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 2: You know, it's like throwing a bow on pac.

699
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 3: Man and calling him Miss pac Man, but even more

700
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 3: kind of obnoxious, frankly.

701
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

702
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: And so in January of nineteen seventy seven, Nola's right, folks,

703
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: Miss Marvel debuts and now our character, Carol Danvers has

704
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: a fair uh faucet hairdoo get it? Easter egg? Oh snap, yeah,

705
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: and she's traveling to New York City. She's gonna work

706
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,959
Speaker 1: as a journalist for a magazine called Woman.

707
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: Woman Super Creative.

708
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 1: It's published by Jay Jodah Jamison.

709
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: Who's all about you know, women's lib Yeah, class classes

710
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 3: big time. So, you know, Miss Marvel does never really

711
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 3: quite quite lock into a rhythm, whether it be with

712
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 3: the stories or the art, because that's very important to

713
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: kind of establish like sort of a cohesive feel to it.

714
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 3: A rotating cast of artists means that it never really

715
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 3: quite gets into that groove. A new costume that gets

716
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: unveiled in nineteen seventy eight, but overall it's a bit

717
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 3: of a dud, and it gets canceled just a few

718
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 3: issues later, an issue number twenty three April of nineteen

719
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 3: seventy nine. But then they decide to bring back Marvel

720
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 3: the Watch. She doesn't get her own imprint or her

721
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: own series. They throw her on a team.

722
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Avengers. The moment where Marvel Comics said, we

723
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: have Justice League at home. It's true Justice Leake comes

724
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: before the Avengers.

725
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: But I think her inclusion is a little bit offensive though,

726
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: or there is. She's sort of this token woman that

727
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 3: is treated a disrespectful.

728
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: There's a storyline where she gets sexually assaulted. It just

729
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: in short, it doesn't age well. But the writers, like

730
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: artists and writers like Chris Claremont said, hey, we're not

731
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: treating this character well. This character has a lot of

732
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: potential and depth. And so in October of nineteen eighty one,

733
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: Claremont himself tries to fix this and he says, all right,

734
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: Carol Denvers has made her way back from space to Earth.

735
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: She's escaping the Creed, but she's haunted by it. She

736
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: runs into Rogue, the very southern mutant from the X

737
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: Men who can steal powers.

738
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: And also can will kill you right, just touch her

739
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 3: hand loog.

740
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

741
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I didn't realize Rogue was ever not

742
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 3: connected with the X Men. I really only knew her,

743
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 3: and I am one of those what did you call it, filthy?

744
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 3: I'm filthy in some way, filthy fans on fair Weather

745
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: is what I'll call myself. I really only knew about

746
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 3: a lot of this stuff from like the X Men

747
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 3: animated series or like Batman the animated series. Those were

748
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: really excellent, by the way. And there's this new X Men. Yeah,

749
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be fabulous and I really can't wait

750
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: to watch it. They really nailed the style and apparently

751
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: it's very, very smart. I'm excited to check it out.

752
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 3: But no, I had no idea that Rogue was her

753
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 3: own thing.

754
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: Oh well, Rogue is.

755
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: Rogue was formerly from the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants helmed

756
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: by Magneto, and then she joins the X Men. So

757
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: she's a bit of an anti hero. But she has

758
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: this complicated relationship that actually passes the Bechdel test with

759
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: Carol Danvers, and so the reason Rogue has powers there are.

760
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: Those two women talking to each other right without talking

761
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: about dude.

762
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: So she gets her she gets her powers, super strength

763
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: and flight and all that because she is permanently intertwined

764
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: with Carol Danvers as Miss Marvel. And when when Rogue

765
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: and Danvers get into this situation, Danvers loses all of

766
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: her memory, which is sort of Chris Claremont wiping the

767
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: slate clean, Tabila, rasa and and so then he has

768
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: Clairemont writes Danvers or Miss Marvel as a character who

769
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: is recuperating and discovering herself and her identity with the

770
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: X Men. It's a great thing, right, And Clairemont does

771
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: very well with the X Men series. His run goes

772
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: almost twenty years, but it's Captain Marvel still. They want

773
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: to hold on to Captain Marvel. How do we shazam

774
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: this back to its original success. Maybe we fast forward

775
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: to the movies.

776
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: Right, where's my Oh? Well?

777
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: Now, now instead of publishing Magnates with print nol, we've

778
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: got to twiddle our vapes. Now we're Studio Magnates.

779
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 2: Studio Magnates.

780
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: Indeed, and as we've talked about throughout this episode, the

781
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 3: MCU is feeling like it's in a bit of a slump,

782
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: but it is still quite big business. And when it

783
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: first really came out the original runs of MCU films

784
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: from the Ironman franchise and onto the Avengers and Infinity

785
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 3: Wars and Guardians of the Galaxy. I mean, this is

786
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 3: some very creative use of this intellectual property, very well made.

787
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 3: It's neat to see them pulling in some smaller directors

788
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: to come in and do these really really big, big films.

789
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 3: And you know, you've got like James Gunn, for example,

790
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 3: who got his star with Trauma Pictures and Toxic Avengers

791
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: and all of that, helming the Guardians of the Galaxy movies,

792
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 3: I think to great effects because there is with the

793
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: legacy of these properties, a lot of pulpy fun kind

794
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 3: of trash involves. So he's a guy that kind of

795
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: gets that, and that's why I think his are more

796
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 3: successful than maybe some of the others. And it feels

797
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: like they've gotten to a place where they sort of

798
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: just lost the plot.

799
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: And it is neat that James Gunn, I believe, now.

800
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 3: Is revamping DC who have notoriously been a little more

801
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 3: dour in their films, like with the Batman's films with

802
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 3: Chritopher Nolan, which are obviously very good, but there's not

803
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,479
Speaker 3: quite as much fun and lightheartedness as you might find

804
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 3: in some of the Marvel movies. So interesting to see

805
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 3: where that's gonna go. But that being said, Marvel Cinematic

806
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 3: Universe did grow into one of the most successful film

807
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: franchises of all time, and hence the mining of every

808
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 3: inch of intellectual property they can from back as far

809
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 3: as the nineteen forties.

810
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this is where Carol Danvers slash Miss Marvel

811
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: slash Captain Marvel goes to the big screen. Everybody total

812
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: of your vapes. Breed Larsen, the actor, is cast in

813
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: the title role of Captain Marvel after the after the

814
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: role gets teased in Avengers Infinity War. So March twenty nineteen,

815
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel comes out. It makes more than one billion

816
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: dollars US worldwide. And then in the later that same

817
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: year Avengers Endgame comes out, we also get we also

818
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: get the introduction of other ancillary characters, just like Shizam,

819
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: just like Captain Marvel of old, there's Monica Rambeau who

820
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: is who is affiliated with Captain Marvel and has similar powers. Right,

821
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: and then because we have promoted Danvers to Captain Marvel,

822
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: there's a new Miss Marvel and This is a Pakistani

823
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: American teenager, Kamala Kahan. Her powers are way different in

824
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: the comics versus in the film or the series adaptations.

825
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting because what we're seeing is overall the

826
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: adaptation of these modern myths. I really appreciate the idea

827
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: that you pointed out of this continuity between Greco Roman

828
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: gods of old and deities and pantheons, and the way

829
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: that those stories echoed down to the world of comics

830
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: and entertainment today. It seems that, as our pal Jeff said,

831
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: it's a reminder that with superheroes, no death is truly final.

832
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: You might be exactly, you might be the next Captain

833
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: Marvel Max.

834
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: You never know.

835
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 3: And also, I would have to argue, does seem to

836
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 3: lower the stakes white a lot, And I would argue

837
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 3: is maybe one of the reasons why some of the

838
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: Marvel properties have lost their luster a little bit, because

839
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: if you if you don't really have to worry about

840
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 3: what happens to a character because you know there's going

841
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 3: to bring them back through a multiversal timey whimy flip,

842
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 3: then are there are there ever any stakes?

843
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 2: Really? It just kind of feels a little bit you.

844
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 3: Know, lazy uh, and their ability to continuously cash in

845
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 3: on all these characters without actually having to commit to

846
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 3: any of their decisions.

847
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Interesting to say, is that how you feel about Doctor Who?

848
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: Because you said time with Whymy?

849
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: I said Timey whymy?

850
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 3: Just because it's you know, it does seem to be

851
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 3: a narrative device and it's a little vague as to

852
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 3: how it actually works, and I feel like the mechanics

853
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 3: behind it are a little you know, amorphous, And I

854
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: also feel like it's just again like is it really

855
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 3: is a character ever really gone? If they can bring

856
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 3: them back, you know, in the next movie. It just

857
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 3: seems to me to be a little bit of a

858
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, cash grabby kind of move. I do

859
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: think it can use creatively. Obviously, it was stuff like everywhere,

860
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 3: everything everywhere all at once. This time travel stuff and

861
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 3: multiverse stuff is really really cool. And obviously those the

862
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: directors of that film and writers, the Daniels are now

863
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 3: in a deal with I believe the Russo Brothers and

864
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 3: and some of the bigger studios. Hopefully they're not going

865
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 3: to get relegated to just making superhero movies. I don't

866
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: think they will, not only they would allow themselves to

867
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 3: be used that way. But I do think it's a

868
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 3: technique that can be used well. But also it.

869
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: Feels like Marvel's kind of done it to death a

870
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: little bit at this point.

871
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:32,959
Speaker 1: What about James Bond?

872
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: I guess I feel like.

873
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 3: That's a little different, just because the continuity doesn't matter

874
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 3: quite as much, and it feels like every time they

875
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 3: cast a new Bond they reset the clock.

876
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 5: And oh like with Spider Man, yeah, a little bit,

877
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 5: I guess.

878
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: All the Spider Man's Meet also, that was fun. I

879
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 2: did enjoy that.

880
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 6: Has been so much.

881
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: I don't think it should be No, No, it's fine.

882
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 6: They put the put in the ads.

883
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 2: Do you guys? You know what I'm saying.

884
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: Though, it feels like if there's never really any anything

885
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: to worry about, because you know they can just come back,

886
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 3: does it feel like there's a little bit of lowering

887
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 3: of the stakes and you're not really concerned with what

888
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 3: might happen.

889
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe I'm being out.

890
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 6: Yes, I agree with one hundred percentul.

891
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:15,240
Speaker 1: And we cannot thank you enough for tuning in. Folks.

892
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: We hope fellow comic book nerds, we hope you are

893
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 1: nodding along as we're hitting some of this stuff. Now,

894
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: obviously we alighted over some of the more in the

895
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: weeds part of this evolution. But I think what we

896
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: all agree on here is that a story never really ends.

897
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: With that, we can't wait for you to tune in

898
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: next week. We have so many more explorations ahead. History

899
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: continues to be ridiculous. Big thanks to our super producer

900
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: mister Max Williams, and our own lex luthor Jonathan Strickland.

901
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 3: Indeed Alex Williams who composed our theme, research associate extraordinary

902
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 3: Jeff bart Let's and of course.

903
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 2: You Ben and with you as well. We'll see you

904
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: next time, folks.

905
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

906
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.