1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: job and Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Radio and a lot of all things tech, and it 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: is time for a classic episode. This episode originally published 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: on November two, thirteen, and it is titled the Oldest 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Computer Enjoy. So, Joe, why would you like to talk about? Well, um, 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: on forward thinking, we usually talk about the future in 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: or another and um so I wanted to go in 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: completely the opposite direction and talk about the technology of 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: the past. And I started thinking, I wonder, what's the 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: oldest computer that we know about? Oh? I got you. 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: So we're talking nine with any AC, right, that computer 14 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: that you would end up programming with lots of plugs 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: and switches, not at all? Wow? No? So wait are you? 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: You're saying it's older than that? Older? Okay? Alright, well 17 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: find how about the ninety two that's the Tennis soft 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Berry Computer or ABC, which was built at Iowa State 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: College which now university. Obviously, but there was there was 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: a patent dispute actually that was decided in the United 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: States government about whether ENIAC or the ABC computer were first, 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: and ultimately they said that it. Uh, you could not 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: have anyone to claim they were the ones to invent 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: the computer. That's the first one, right, ABC computer. Okay, alright, 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: N one. We're starting to get a little fuzzy here, 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: but alright, so Conrad Zeus builds the Z three computer. 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: And that was also the same year when the first 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: bomba was built, you know, one of the devices meant 29 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: to help decrypt German messages. That's it, right, No, alright. 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty nine, George Stimmits completes the complex number calculator, 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: the CNC at Bell Telephone Laboratories. We just finished talking 32 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: about Bell Labs. This has got to be it. And 33 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: even in the first demonstration he used teletype so that 34 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: he could program this remotely over special telephone line. So 35 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: it was the first remote computer as well. So that's it, right. 36 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: I think you need to think less electricity fine, fine. 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: Seven the analytical Engine. Charles Babbage, he designs this, never 38 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: finishes it in his lifetime, but of course that is 39 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: the device that Ada Lovelace, the Enchantress of Numbers, had 40 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: possibly even created computer programs for algorithms, where she envisioned 41 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: a time where you could encode things like music and 42 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: poetry into mathematics. That's it, the analytical engine. Okay, so 43 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that. You're you're about two tho 44 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: years off, say what not about almost? Okay, so what 45 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: are you talking about? I'm talking about something that is 46 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: called the antique antique kith ant Oh, we're gonna have 47 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: this problem the whole time. The anti cythera me yes, 48 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: the anti cithera mechanism are also known as the antikathera mechanism. Yeah, 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: it all depends on the or you know, which pronunciation 50 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: you follow. Antikythera seems to be fairly commonplace. So we're 51 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and use that one and probably switch 52 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: off without even thinking about it. All right, I know 53 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: a little bit about this, but I guess before we 54 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: talk about this mechanism, maybe we need to say what 55 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: the heck is anti Cithera. For anyone who is not 56 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: familiar with the the geography of Greece, you may not 57 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: know this. This refers to a place. Yeah, it's an 58 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: island in the Mediterranean Sea. And if you um, if 59 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: you imagine you're looking at the Mediterranean, it's the small 60 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: island that's between Crete to the south and the Peloponnesian 61 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: Peninsula up to the north. So the mainland of Greece 62 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: and it's right there in the middle. Um, there's a 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: bigger island just called Cithera, and this is a smaller 64 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: one offset from it called Anti cither So if Anti 65 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: Cithera and O throw where to collide, it would just 66 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: destroy one another. Yeah, total positronic REVERSI yeah, you tell 67 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: them about the twinkie, so you know, joking aside, Does 68 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: that mean that this is where that mechanism was was made? Um? No, 69 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: probably not. This is where the mechanism was discovered. So 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: I got its name, gotcha. So someone was walking around 71 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: Antikithera one day and they stubbed their toe and oh 72 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: what's this and found the world's oldest computer. No, it's 73 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: much creepier. Um okay, So the story goes like this. 74 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: Around the year nineteen hundred, there was a group of 75 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: sponge divers who were off the coast of Antikithera and 76 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: they were doing their diving. I guess whatever sponge divers do. 77 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: They were gathering sponges, gathering sponges to wash all their 78 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: dishes exactly. Um, so they were doing their thing. But 79 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: apparently one of the divers came up to the surface 80 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 1: and he was like, guys, there are dead women lying 81 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: all over the bottom of the ocean. There's a bunch 82 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: of naked dead ladies at the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, 83 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: sounds creepy, but studios. Yeah. Actually what he was seeing 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: were statues. There were bronze and marble statues that were 85 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: part of the payload of a almost well I guess 86 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: about exactly to two year old ship wreck of a 87 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: ship that was a Roman ship, a large Roman ship 88 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: carrying a lot of cargo, much of it probably stolen 89 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: or looted cargo. Right, we're talking at an era just 90 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: around the time when the Romans were beginning to uh, 91 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: let's say, incorporate the Hellenistic societies into their empire by force. 92 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: So it had all these Greek artifacts on it, yeah, 93 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: and luxury items, like really expensive stuff in the Greek world. Yeah. 94 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: And so the idea is, we don't know exactly what 95 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: the ship was doing. What we think it was probably 96 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: a ship that was returning to Rome from some destination 97 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: uh in the Greek world. Yeah, and so there are 98 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot of these Greek artifactsically currency, uh, they had, 99 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: like you said, statues, they had lots of pottery, um, 100 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: and they had this this device, which was well, at first, 101 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: it was just a lump, right, yeah, right, yeah, first, Well, 102 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: and of course it didn't get that much attention early 103 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: on because there was so much other stuff down there 104 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: in that shipwreck. Right, So the people who went in 105 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: to really investigate the shipwreck and take a look and 106 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 1: see what was going on, they didn't necessarily realize that 107 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: there was something truly special, something that was beyond just 108 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: uh special from an artistic merit point of view, but 109 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: could tell us a lot about how much the ancient 110 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: Greeks knew about craftsmanship, about astronomy, about math, all of 111 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: these things we've become apparent, but only a hundred years later, right, 112 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: so after the explorer. So so it it's it's forgotten 113 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: for two thousand years essentially, and then for another hundred 114 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: years we don't really know what it is. So it's 115 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: kind of this lump of roded bronze inside what what 116 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: used to be a wooden box essentially disintegrated. Yeah, so 117 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: there's like there's one big remaining lump, but they're about 118 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: eighty two fragments in total, right, right, So one of 119 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: those fragments, the main fragment, has the vast majority of 120 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: the what we know of as the inner workings of 121 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: whatever this device was supposed to be. And we know 122 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot more about now, but don't want to ruin 123 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: the surprise. No, But so basically we can say, like 124 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: what it was made of. So what they think now is, Okay, 125 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: this looks like it was some kind of collection of 126 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: bronze gears inside of a wooden casing. Yeah. In fact, 127 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: at first they thought it might only be just one 128 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: gear that somehow was loose from something else, and then 129 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: they realized, no, there's actually several gears here, but it's 130 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: all corroded together. Yeah, it's it's sort of like a 131 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: fused into a big bottom of the ocean snotball, Yeah, exactly, 132 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: that's very accurate. Um. But so if you can imagine 133 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: I would call like imagine a mid sized dictionary, not 134 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: like a pocket dictionary, but also not that huge one 135 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: from the library that you couldn't see. It's on a 136 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: pedestalia like a like a large hardback dictionary. Um, and 137 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: it's got a wooden casing, so you could open that 138 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: casing up and then inside you've got this corroded mass 139 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: that uh, that is all this gear formation. Now, of 140 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: course the wooden casing doesn't really remain except in rotted 141 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: fragmentary form um. But that's the basic mechanism we're dealing with. 142 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: And if you start to look at it, you would 143 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: see this one big gear um. But you might wonder 144 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: what does this thing do? Yeah, and beyond that, I mean, 145 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: before we even get to that, like how old is 146 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: this thing? Oh? Yeah, because I mean we we figured 147 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: that the shipwreck happens sometime around eight five BC before 148 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: common eras because mostly because of the dates that we 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: found and I say we, but the explorers found on 150 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: the current. Yeah. You know, sometimes Joe and I we 151 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: get we get tired of working on stuff or for thinking, 152 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: we pop out to the Greek islands and then just 153 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: go well skin diving. Yeah, you know. And X, by 154 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: the way does mark the spot now, but we by 155 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: dating things like the currency, they have sort of narrowed 156 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: the ranged around five b C. But that that doesn't 157 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: necessarily mean that's how old the device is. No, they 158 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: think that the device is older than the wreck. It 159 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: wasn't built like right before that. It's generally dated between 160 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: a hundred and a hundred and fifty b C. So 161 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: it's thought of as a second century BC device, right, 162 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: So so it is an ancient device. Uh, that seems 163 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: to be about how old it is. Uh, we've got 164 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: some ideas of where it may have come from. There 165 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: were some, No, we don't we don't have any The 166 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: instruction manual for this device was not anywhere to be found. 167 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: It was not on the glove compartment of the shipwreck, 168 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: so we can't be absolutely certain. Uh, there's some speculation 169 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: that maybe it was the island of Rhodes, which was 170 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 1: known for its scholar ship and also it's craftsmanship. But 171 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: there are some other options as well that we can 172 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: talk about. But beyond that, Um, you know, we've talked 173 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: about what was made of, we talked about how old 174 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: it was, but yeah, what what did this thing do? 175 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: And at first it was a real mystery. In fact, 176 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: for like we said, like a century, it was a mystery. 177 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: We just didn't have enough information to be able to 178 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: determine that. We had some wild guests. There were people 179 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: who made some good guesses, but they didn't know the 180 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: full extent yet. Um, and that they didn't realize initially 181 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: how awesome this thing was. You know, we can make 182 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: an argument that this is the oldest computer, which obviously 183 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: means that it has to do more than just have 184 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: some inner work, inner working gears that moved smoothly. It 185 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: has to do something beyond that, because otherwise anything that 186 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: was reliant on gears and clockwork you could call a computer. 187 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: But we'll get into exactly what it is that this 188 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: thing did. That kind of makes us consider it more 189 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: of a computer device and analog computer than some sort 190 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: of interesting clockwork. Right. So, um, but in general, what 191 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: we understand it to have been able to do, and 192 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: in fact we understand a lot more about it in 193 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: very recent years than we had for the century leading 194 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: up to it. Oh well, I'd say now we've basically 195 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: had a slam dunk on this one. Recent recent revelations 196 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: have shown us, oh, this is pretty much exactly what 197 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, which is phenomenal when you think of 198 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: how badly and repair this thing was. But but ultimately 199 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: what it does is it's it's a device that not 200 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: only tracks celestial events and the movement of celestial bodies 201 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: in relation to our perspective here on Earth, it also 202 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: predicts them. So, in other words, you not only can 203 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: you can you keep track of what's going on, and 204 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: it could give you an indication of where you would 205 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: need to look in the sky if you wanted to 206 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: see something like marsh It also would tell you that, oh, 207 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: on this particular date, you will have a full solar eclipse. 208 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: It's kind of cool. Yeah. In other words, an ask 209 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 1: atronomical calculator, yes, um. And so what it would do 210 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: is it would have a position of the Earth and 211 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: then um by moving the hand crank, which which no 212 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: longer exists, but that's that's what figure. It was a 213 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: hand crank that that provided the the kinetic energy to 214 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: make everything turn by moving that you could see at 215 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: the same time, based on a projected date in the future, 216 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: the positions of the Sun, of the Moon, um, probably 217 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: of the planets we don't know the planet gears are 218 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: missing right now, probably at least the planets that the 219 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: Greeks knew about, which included the probably not the planets 220 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: that probably not the we don't think well, not Neptune 221 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: Uranus or if you want to be kind, Pluto um. 222 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: They they had identified as far out as Saturn. Now, 223 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: if in fact we were to find evidence that it 224 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: included these other planets as well as far as we 225 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: know they didn't know about. Then that would the third 226 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: part of our conversation to get a little more interesting. 227 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: It also had yeah, as you said, an eclipse prediction 228 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: dial uh and that's really cool. Uh. And it also 229 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: predicted cultural events. Yeah, that's true, like the Olympiad, right, 230 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: because you had a schedule of when that would take place, 231 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: and so by plotting it against this device and actually 232 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: inscribing it on the device, you could in a factor 233 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: then you could see what the what the celestial events 234 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: were going to be at a planned future event that way, 235 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: which is kind of handy. Um. But we'll talk specifically. 236 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: We need to really get into the nitty gritty of 237 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 1: how this is possible, and then we'll conclude at the 238 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: end talking about how we know all of this stuff, because, 239 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: as you're gonna learn, it's really complicated to figure out 240 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: how a device works if you can't actually visualize all 241 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: the gears when you first get hold of it. Before 242 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: we get into that conversation, let's take a quick break 243 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: to thank our sponsor. So we've got a cool sponsor today, 244 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: Trunk Club. This is a really interesting serve it. 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The stylist talk to me, got 255 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: my measurements, my my clothing sizes, and started looking around 256 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: for stuff that I normally wouldn't shop for myself, and 257 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: ended up picking up some great investment pieces for me 258 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: to look at. And here's how it works. They they 259 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: have you tell them when you want a trunk sent 260 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: to you, and then they'll send you the trunk. They 261 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: pay for the shipping, You take a look, you see 262 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: what you like, You keep what you like, you send 263 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: back anything else you don't like in the same box. 264 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: They give you a retur hern shipping label so you 265 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: don't have to pay for that, and you just pay 266 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: for whatever it is you keep and it's not a 267 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: subscription service. You just do this whenever you want to 268 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: get some new awesome clothing. So go to www Dot 269 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: trunk Club dot com and check it out. Alright, we're back, 270 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: So let's talk about how this device actually tracked celestial events. Okay, 271 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: so we we know they are all these gears. There's 272 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: a hand cranky turn. It moves things forwards that you 273 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: can look at what the celestial conditions are on any 274 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: given date, or you can even advance it so that 275 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: you can look for a specific celestial event. Let's say 276 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: you're looking specifically for when is the next eclipse going 277 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: to occur, So you're not looking to see what the 278 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: celestial scott, what the sky is going to look like, um, 279 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: three months from now, you just want to know when 280 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: the next eclipse is. You could advance the handle from 281 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: your date and keep doing it until you saw the 282 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: eclipse information come up and then compare that see what 283 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: the date is. On the other part of the indicator, 284 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: we'll talk about all the different dial This would be 285 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: indicated by a dial, so it's like it's like an 286 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: analog clock face. You would be spinning around a point 287 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: to let you know when this is coming exactly, and 288 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: then you could say, oh, all right, so the next 289 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: eclipse is in you know, you know, three months and 290 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: two weeks from now or whatever. And uh so there's 291 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: a lot of different ways you could use this. Well, um, 292 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: there were about thirty thirty one gears that we know of, 293 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: probably at least at least more or at least thirty 294 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: probably more. So it's I think hypothesized that there were 295 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: more to deal with the movement of the planets that 296 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: that's just lost. And you know, it's not a surprise 297 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: because again, like I said, when we call it bad repair, 298 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: I mean you're you think about this. This is like 299 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: essentially the imagine a clock that's been fused into one piece. 300 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean an old style gear clock fused into one 301 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: piece that's kind of and it's it's opaque, so you 302 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: can't see these gears that are on the inside just 303 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: with the naked eye. But we'll get into how we 304 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: figured more about this in a little bit. But so 305 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: you had all these different dials that would mark different events, 306 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: uh and different time spans. Right, so you would have 307 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: a dial that would be set up for for just 308 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: regular keeping of of the calendar year, but there were 309 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: also dials that were more attuned to specific celestial cycles. 310 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: So for example, there might be a nineteen year cycle 311 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: that's represented by one dial, another one had, I think 312 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: a seventy five year dial, And these dials were to 313 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: refer to things that patterns that would repeat once you 314 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: hit those time frames, so like every nineteen years, this 315 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: one set of pattern would repeat itself. So that's why 316 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: they have these different dials to indicate exactly what's happening 317 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: at exactly what time. Uh. What I loved was the 318 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: idea that there was one gear specifically devoted to showing 319 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: the phase of the moon, So not only would you 320 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: see the position of the moon on any given date, 321 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: but you would also see what phase it was in, 322 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: whether it was waxing or waning, a new moon and 323 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: fullman whatever, and and uh, I really thought that was 324 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: very clever. So yeah, you essentially either either refer to 325 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: the dates and look at the celestial events to compare 326 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: the two, or you would said it so that you 327 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: would look at a specific configuration of the celestial body 328 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: and then look at what date corresponded to it. It's 329 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: um kind of amazing to imagine the complex planning and 330 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: craftsmanship that went into a machine like this, because, um, 331 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: when you start thinking about it, okay, say somebody set 332 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: you down and told you to try to build something 333 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: like this, and you had you know, it was open 334 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: book test. You knew what time frame all these celestial 335 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: events would occur in. How would you do it? Yeah, 336 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: I mean God, so you would kind of figure out 337 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: the relationships between the sizes of gears, um and the 338 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: way they would interlock to create fractional relations ships between 339 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: the movements of all the different bodies at the same time. 340 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: And keep in mind that if this thing is reflecting 341 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: say planets and stuff like that, well, from a geocentric 342 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 1: point of view, the movement of the planets is not 343 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: just a simple circle, right, I mean you see them, 344 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: they persiss and then they go backwards and all things exactly. 345 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: So if you and there's a fellow named Michael T. 346 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: Wright who built a replica of this device, and we'll 347 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: talk more about him probably in a bit, but he 348 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: there's a great video that demonstrates him using this machine 349 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: to show the movement of these different elements. And sometimes 350 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: you see them moving kind of backward compared to other elements, 351 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: and you think, Wow, the gears have to account for 352 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: that too. The gears have to be able to do 353 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: very complex movements of these uh these these arms that 354 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: are on these dials in order to reflect what is 355 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: really happening. And while the model itself uh US depict 356 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: a geocentric view of celestial bodies, we can't be sure 357 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: that the person who built it necessarily ascribed necessarily ascribed 358 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: to a geocentric philosophy. Oh, that's certainly true because for 359 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: the device's function, I mean it was it was functionally geocentric, right, 360 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: because we're preserving from exactly even if the person who 361 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: made it actually thought the Earth went around the Sun, 362 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: it would still look the same pretty much. Because if 363 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: you're reflecting how the world, how the how the celestial 364 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, elements look compared to being on the Earth, 365 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: it makes no sense to make it anything other than geocentric. 366 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: So the heliocentric theories had been placed ahead of when 367 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: we think this device was made. So it's possible we 368 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: don't know because there were still people who who's ascribed 369 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: to a geocentric worldview. I'd probably say that was dominant, yeah, 370 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: because because it was similar to what we would see 371 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: centuries later, where to propose such a thing as a 372 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: helos helio centric view would mean that you might suffer 373 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of let's say, you might get ostracized 374 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: with extreme prejudice that people didn't like here in that. Yeah, 375 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: So anyway, you know, it does look like it was 376 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: going to show you not only the Sun and Moon's movements, 377 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: which is already complex enough because they don't move at 378 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: the same rate, or you know they change positions uh 379 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: differently relative to one another, than to throw in the 380 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: other planets makes that or the plants that the Greeks 381 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: knew about makes it even more complex. It's Charity from 382 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: twenty eight he's the oldest podcaster here to say we're 383 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and hopefully when we 384 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: come back it will be less cringe worthy. So here's 385 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: the question, does this count as a computer? I would 386 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: say absolutely. I would say so to you, and I've 387 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: got a little argument here. Tell me what you think 388 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: about so um, I'd say the basic definition of a computer. 389 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: A lot of times it's included that it's electronic, but 390 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: let's take that part out and say, well, whether or 391 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: not it's electronic. Um, a computer is like an interactive 392 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: machine that can and these words often come up, store, retrieve, 393 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: and process data. That's fair. Um, so it's like input, 394 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: output and processing and storage. Yeah. I always think of 395 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: it as something that can can take input, put it 396 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: through some form of algorithm, meaning a set of rules, 397 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: and then give you output on the other side. And 398 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: it's predictable. It's going to do that the same way. Like, 399 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: assuming that you put in the same input and you're 400 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: running it through the same algorithm, you're always going to 401 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: get the same output. Okay, so both definitions work very 402 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,239 Speaker 1: well together. Yeah, I'd say the biggest distinction is that 403 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: today's computers we think of as being general use. So 404 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: you you have hardware that can compute, but you've all 405 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: got software to boss the hardware around so it can 406 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: tell it to compute in different ways. Right. So in 407 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: that way, you can have a single machine allow you 408 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: to do Excel spreadsheets or play you know, the first 409 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: person shooter game. Right. But obviously without electronics, this this 410 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: ancient computer doesn't have software. It just has hardware. Or 411 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: it's like thinking about a computer that can only run 412 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,239 Speaker 1: one program, which is not that difficult to imagine. I mean, 413 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: if you if you think of calculators as a subset 414 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: of computers. Calculators like your basic calculator. I'm not talking 415 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: about your super crazy calculators that have apps on them 416 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: and everything, but your basic calculator does basic calculator functions. It's, 417 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, again, taking that input, putting it through an algorithm, 418 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: some sort of mathematical process, and you get an output 419 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: similar to this device. Yeah. So this device, it's like 420 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: a computer that only has one job. But within that job, 421 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I think it's definitely worth saying it's a computer because 422 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: its stores data. So the relationships between in the astronomical 423 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: pathways are represented by the mechanical math that's done between 424 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: the teeth and the gears. So like the gear sizes 425 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: themselves are sort of storing that data. Sure um. And 426 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: then it takes input. You turn the hand crank to 427 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: give it the input of the date you want to calculate, 428 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: and then it gives you output. It's got the dials 429 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: that reflect the computed values of the of what you're 430 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: looking for. And even as I have said before, you 431 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: could do it the other way where you keep turning 432 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: the dial until you get the configuration you were interested in, 433 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: and then you look at the date, so it works 434 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: in either sense, and uh, pretty phenomenal. I mean, it's 435 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: when you think about how precise you have to be 436 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: to make sure you get this and only that, but 437 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: just the huge amount of information you have to have 438 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: at your disposal to even start in the craftsmanship of 439 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: this thing. Because the Greeks had a lot of of 440 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: information about astronomy, some of it they got from the Babylonians. 441 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: So the Babylonians were known as is very much interested 442 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: in astronomy. The Greeks were as well, and so they 443 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: had to have had all this observation data that they had, 444 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: the things that they had observed about the movement of 445 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: celestial objects in the sky and how those patterns would 446 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: arise in order for them to plan that out into 447 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: a mechanical device. And that to me is really amazing 448 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: because you're not talking about, oh, you know, every four weeks, 449 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: this one event happens. Now, some of these cycles, like 450 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: I said, are incredibly long. You had a nineteen year cycle, 451 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: you had a seventy six year cycle, you had a 452 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: fifty four year cycle. All of these were taken into 453 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: account to explain the movement of celestial objects in various ways. 454 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: Whether it's a solar eclipse or a lunar eclipse, or 455 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: that you get both a lunar and a solar eclipse 456 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: within a certain amount of time, not to mention the 457 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 1: movement of the other planets. That's a lot of information 458 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: that you have to have compiled before you ever cut 459 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: into a sheet of bronze. Uh. Yes, it certainly is. 460 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: And and even harder is imagining how you would begin 461 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: to compute that data. Yeah, I mean nobody. Um, well, 462 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: actually this is a good question, Um, had anybody ever 463 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: made anything like this before? Obviously we don't know for sure, right, well, 464 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: we don't have evidence. This is the earliest existing device. 465 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: In fact, we don't have any other devices to point to. 466 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: And let's be clear when we're calling it the earliest 467 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: known computer that that doesn't mean we think that there's 468 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: nothing that like this that could have come before. It 469 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: just means the it's the earliest one that we have 470 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,239 Speaker 1: so and we don't have any others. It's not like 471 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: there are you know, twenty other examples of this. In fact, 472 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: if you want to look at for another object that's 473 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: as complex as this one, you have to go about 474 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: fifteen hundred years further into the early Renaissance and look 475 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: at the Middle East, China, and Europe for devices that 476 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: start to equal this level of complexity. Yet, however, these 477 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: historians of mechanical engineering, they say, this kind of stuff 478 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: doesn't show up until late medieval clockwork. It's like, yeah, 479 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: at the earliest. So when you take that into account, 480 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: you think, well, you know, is this is this an anomaly? 481 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: Is it a one off that some mad genius come 482 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: up with us? But if you if you were to 483 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: actually carefully examine those gears, and we'll talk more about 484 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: how people have done that over the last decade or so, 485 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: if you were to very carefully examine them, you would 486 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: see that they appear to have been made flawlessly, like 487 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: there were no mistakes. Uh. You know, a lot of 488 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: experts have said that if you were to build, say 489 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: a clock, and it's your first clock, it may be 490 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: a functional clock, but if you were to look at 491 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: the clockwork, you might see where there were mistakes that 492 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: were made and then corrected for later on. There No, 493 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: there's no evidence of that in this device, which suggests 494 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: that whoever built it had done it at least a 495 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: few times before to perfect the whole process. Before building 496 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: another one. Yeah, and combined with the fact that this 497 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: thing is just so smart that it suggests it was 498 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: probably not the only one of its kind. It probably 499 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: came from a line of similar devices, maybe of advancing complexity. 500 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: And you might think, well, if this is the case, 501 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: where the heck is everything else and well, some of 502 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: it could just be lost or destroyed. And also being 503 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: made up of bronze means that it's a valuable resource 504 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: which occasionally for other purposes, like I don't know, war, 505 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: you would melt down so that you could use it 506 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: for other stuff. Yeah, I mean, think about what we're 507 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: talking about the first and second century b C. In 508 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: the Hellenistic world. I mean, it's it's a time when 509 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: stuff might have gotten grabbed and taken to another place, 510 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: melted down, or just lost, just like just like this 511 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 1: one was lost. There's lots stuff going on if you 512 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: look at and we should mention this stuff you missed 513 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: in History Class Sister podcast they did an episode on 514 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: this same topic. Fantastic episode, highly committed, you should definitely 515 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: go listen to it. Um. But one of the things 516 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: they pointed out was that if you look at bronze 517 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: statues from that era, they're very very few of them, 518 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: and I think like nine out of ten came from 519 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: shipwrecks because the ones that were left on land, more 520 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: frequently than not had been melted down for other purposes. 521 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: So it's it's one of those There was not necessarily 522 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: a sense of permanency in this time of the world. Okay, 523 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: so we don't have, like, in terms of archaeology, another 524 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: device like this from the time. Has anybody ever described 525 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: a device like this from the time? Uh, that's a 526 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: good question. Do you have any actual information on that? 527 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: Because when I was looking for it, that was it 528 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: seemed to me at the time that everyone was absolutely 529 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: shocked by this device because it didn't seem to have 530 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: any kind of shock shocked to the point where they 531 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: were wondering if it was perhaps a hoax, that maybe 532 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: someone had planted this thing and it was a fake. 533 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: But it may be that there are sources I'm I'm 534 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: aware of. Do you know any I think there are 535 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: ancient descriptions of ore ries. Okay, so those are wouldn't 536 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: be exactly like this, but sort of ancient models of 537 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: the movement of the Planet's interesting. So yeah, and of 538 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: course we do know that there were philosophers who had 539 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: described uh, the very motions that this device enacted that 540 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: you know they were they were just describing it for 541 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: scholarly purposes, and this device would show that in action 542 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: if you were to move the handle. Well, here's an 543 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: interesting question. Who built this thing? Yeah? Where did it 544 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: come from? We don't. We don't know, is the short answer. 545 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: We have some suspicions. Uh. Sometimes the name Archimedes gets 546 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: thrown around there. Yeah, so one clue is just that 547 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: Archimedes he was around, you know, a century before this, 548 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: and he was a genius inventor and uh or at 549 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: least we assume, so some of his inventions we cannot 550 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: actually be certain we're ever built. But sure, come on, 551 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: he built a death ray just just in mind, death ray, okay, 552 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: probably and a giant a giant arm that would upset 553 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: besieging ships. I'd want to believe, I understand. Okay. So uh, well, 554 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: is that the only evidence that it might have been 555 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: our comedies? Well, no, Archimedes, as you might remember, was 556 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: from he lived in Syracuse in the which is unfortunate. Yeah, well, 557 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: unfortunate for our comedies. Uh. He lived in Syracuse. And 558 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: an interesting fact about the device that we discovered later 559 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: is that. Okay, So the device has inscriptions all over it, 560 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: very faint inscriptions, and they're hard to read because of 561 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: all the corrosion from the thousands of years. But what 562 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: they discovered was, oh, okay, actually we can make out 563 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: some of these with some of this imaging we're about 564 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: to talk about in the next section. And it's in 565 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: coin A Greek. So that was sort of like coin 566 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: A Greek was the lingua franca of the Hellenistic world, 567 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: and you know, people spoke it all over the place. 568 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: But the calendar that was represented on here reflected the 569 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of calendar that would be used in the Ionian area, 570 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: which would include Syracuse. Right, So that that gives at 571 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: least some again circumstantial evidence that perhaps our commedee could 572 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: have been involved in this. Then again, our comedies probably 573 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: died too early to have made this particular device due 574 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 1: to an over zealous soldier. We know he died in 575 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: I think to twelve BC and the device was made 576 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: in the probably sometime between, right, So yeah, that does 577 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: put some he died too early to have personally made it, right, 578 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: maybe he made an earlier one. Yeah, And that's one 579 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: idea is that it could have come out of a 580 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: sort of a Syracuse based school of our comedies maybe. 581 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: And again, the Island of Rhodes is another example that 582 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: people have have per presented saying that they were very 583 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: much on that island, there was a scholarly center that 584 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: was devoted to astronomy, and that they also had craftsmen 585 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: who worked in clockwork type devices. So it's possible that 586 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: it could have originated from that area. We just we 587 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: don't know. There's some clues there, but we we don't 588 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: know for sure. Yeah. Another name I just want to 589 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: mention real quick that gets brought up is Hipparcos. Hipparcos 590 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: Hippocaus of of Nicia. And he was a Greek astronomer 591 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: um and geographer and he did the maths. He was 592 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: a smart guy trigonometry right, yeah, he he was also 593 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: uh he wasn't Hippocrates, but anyway, he he He also 594 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: was known for describing the movements of the sun in 595 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: the moon, right and uh. And some indications that it 596 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: maybe could have had something to do with him, or 597 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: that the astronomical theories that are reflected in this, including 598 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: like the movement of the moon reflects his thoughts about 599 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: the movement, So it may not be that he had 600 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: a direct hand in it, but that perhaps a student 601 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: or someone familiar with his work took the theory and 602 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: put it into a physical object. Okay, but I have 603 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: another theory about who created it. Yeah, I have a feeling. 604 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: I know what you're gonna say. But hit me with it, buddy. Okay, Well, 605 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: it goes like this, This mechanism is way too advanced 606 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: to have been built by human beings at the time. 607 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: Obviously it was built by a aliens be time traveler 608 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: see transdimensional reptilians. Right, so um or or sorry d um, 609 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: like a super advanced secret human society that we don't 610 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: know about, like Atlantis, but we do know about them, 611 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: we don't think they exist, all right. So all right, 612 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: and Joe, I know you're you're presenting this as a 613 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: tongue in cheek because you and I share a common 614 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: opinion on this about how it's absolutely ridiculous nonsense to 615 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: assume this. Yeah, for one thing, it it really it 616 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: really says a lot about the cynicism of people when 617 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: it comes to the creativity of human beings and ingenuity 618 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: and our ability to process complex thoughts and bring them 619 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: into reality, you know. I mean it's the same argument 620 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: that no, the Pyramids, no human could have built those. 621 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: Actually thousands of humans built those. Tens of thousands of 622 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: humans built those. Yeah, it's um, it's not like somebody 623 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: in ancient Greece building a warp drive, right, It's it's 624 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: somebody who was building something that was totally available to 625 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: someone with the technology of the time. All they had 626 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: to be was really really smart, right. Yeah. That we 627 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: know that the astronomical knowledge was there, you know, the 628 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: scholarship was there. We know that the bronze working was there. 629 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: We know that people there were craftsmen who generally wasn't 630 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: as good as this, right, but there were craftsmen who 631 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: could create incredible bowl works. A lot of bronze U Now, 632 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: a lot of those that haven't survived because of again 633 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: the fact that people would melt stuff down. But the 634 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: ones that have survived have shown that there's you know, 635 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: there has there was a level of artistry there. Yeah, 636 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: it's I think the bottom line is it's quite exceptional 637 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: for its time, but it's not unthinkable. And so we 638 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: are discounting the the alien slash time travel or slash Reptilian. 639 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: So whatever, I mean, if it was from Aliens, you'd 640 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: think that, you know, it would reflect a little more 641 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: complete astronomical knowledge, might be electronic or something. Also, it 642 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: wouldn't be geocentric. Really talked about it, you know, it's 643 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: functionally geocentric, even though the person who made it might 644 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: have been right. But why would an alien bother to 645 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: make something from Earth's perspective when oh, yeah, they could 646 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: make an oory from the outside right, including the Earth 647 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: revolving around the Sun. Yeah, why would they do? Yeah? 648 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me. Not 649 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: knowing about planets past Saturn, you know that they just 650 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: thought those were those were not really high up on 651 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: the list. Yeah, you don't wanna, you don't want to 652 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: visit those? Yeah, So I think we can discount the 653 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: whole alien hypothesis. Hey, it's Jonathan from I kicked out 654 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: the old man who was talking into my microphone. We're 655 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: going to take another quick break, but we'll be right 656 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: back alright. So we have discussed what it was, we 657 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: discussed how it worked. How do we know that it 658 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: did this thing? I mean, you are you're talking about 659 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: a giant hunk of corroded bronze. How could you possibly 660 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: ever figure out what this thing actually did? As we 661 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: already mentioned, people originally did not know. They had no 662 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: idea what this honk was capable of. For a century, 663 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: we really didn't know. We had some people make some 664 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: guesses occasionally, but for the most part, it wasn't until 665 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: we were able to use something far more sophisticated than 666 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: just our own eyeballs to look at it. We had 667 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: to use X rays, and with the X rays, initially, 668 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: the X rays showed that there were lots of gears 669 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: inside this hunk of corroded bronze, and that they were 670 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,479 Speaker 1: connected in some way. But those early X rays were 671 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: not perfect. Mostly they due to the fact that you 672 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: couldn't tell depth with it, so you couldn't see how 673 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: the gears were connected. It was like a massive gears, 674 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 1: but you weren't sure where where they were in relation 675 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: to one another. Um But enter something called three D 676 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: X ray. Yeah, where you start tomography, Yes, scanning it 677 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: from all different angles using different approaches. Did you did 678 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: you come across the powerful X ray machines called blade Runner? No? 679 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 1: I didn't. Yeah, yeah, so blade Runner X ray machines. Sorry, 680 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: They used lots of different X ray machines throughout the 681 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: study of this device. As we began to learn that 682 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: this was far more important from a historical perspective than 683 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: anyone had had thought leading up to this. I mean, 684 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 1: everyone was thinking that these other artifacts were really important 685 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: and this other thing was a curiosity. But as we 686 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: learned more about it, we realized, well, this thing is amazing. Uh. Well, 687 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,240 Speaker 1: the the various X ray devices we use showed more 688 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: of the relation of all these different gears, so we 689 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: got to see how they were laid out inside this 690 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: hunk of corroded bronze. But the blade Runner device, all right, 691 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: So it was an X ray machine that was designed 692 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: to look for tiny cracks and turbine blades. That's what 693 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: the original design of these machines was for and to 694 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: tell whether or not you're a replicant. Also to tell yeah, 695 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: I would ask you if a turtle is on its back, 696 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: what do you do? Why doesn't mechanism turn the turtle over? Yeah, 697 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: So anyway, it would look for these tiny It was 698 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: designed so that you could detect the tiniest of cracks 699 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: and turbine blades, so that you could do maintenance before 700 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: a catastrophic failure. They used it to look at this device, 701 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: the anti anti cithera device. We keep avoiding saying it 702 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: so that I don't fall over myself. Let's say it 703 00:39:53,160 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: three times together, Jonathan, Okay, so that's fantastic, all right, 704 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: Now you have to say it backwards. No. Um. So 705 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: the Antikithera device, the blade Runner thing, it looks at it, 706 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: and it actually is able to see because it has 707 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: such precise measurements. It's able to to to distinguish what 708 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: the tiny shallow carvings are on those dials. That's how 709 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: we were able to read the word inscription. The inscriptions, yeah, 710 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: because some of them were just very faded already, even 711 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: before you talk about the corrosion effort in there or 712 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: element in there, i should say. And the blade Runner 713 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,280 Speaker 1: X rays were able to measure these very tiny changes 714 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: in the surface of these different dials, and that's how 715 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: we were able to see what the writing was and 716 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: thus able to really um translated and figure out what 717 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: this thing actually did. And that's how people once they 718 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: started reading it, once they started being able to read 719 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 1: the writing, it became clear that this was a far 720 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: more sophisticated to vice than what what predecessors were thinking. 721 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: Even the earliest guesses were things that probably can predict 722 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: solar and lunar movements, or maybe it's some form of calendar, 723 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: but it No one was really aware of how sophisticated 724 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,439 Speaker 1: it was until we were able to take this closer look. 725 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: And I think it's pretty phenomenal what we've learned about 726 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: it so far, Like those shallow engravings have told us 727 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: pretty much everything we need to know about its basic function, 728 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: and that's how we're able to draw some conclusions and 729 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: clear the conclusions that lad Michael t right to build 730 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: his replica of the device to the point where he's 731 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: got a working replica. Uh it, as far as we 732 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: can tell, it's as accurate to the original as we 733 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: can possibly get. Yeah, you should look this up on 734 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: YouTube and see it, because it's not just a model. 735 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: It is a working replica. He built the machine. He 736 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: used very similar methods as to what the ancient Greeks 737 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: would have. He used the same sort of dimension of gears. Uh. 738 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,240 Speaker 1: You know, keeping in mind that we don't he's working 739 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: from an incomplete model. Even with our very very sophisticated 740 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: techniques these days, you can't see what's not there, right, 741 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: there's still some missing pieces that we don't really have. 742 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: You know, he was able to recreate it based upon 743 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: what we think the device was meant to do and 744 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: his works and then the videos are amazing. When you 745 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 1: watch the just the minute movements of each of these 746 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: pieces in relation to one another and think of how 747 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: complex this is, it's mind blowing. It's well, and it's 748 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 1: also it's a it's a gorgeous device, you know, It's 749 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: just it's a beautiful device. You would look at and 750 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,720 Speaker 1: you might think Originally, if you were just to glance 751 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: at it, you might think it was either a really 752 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,399 Speaker 1: weird clock or maybe some sort of navigational equipment for 753 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,800 Speaker 1: like a ship or something, just because you've got bronze 754 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: and wood there. But um, yeah, once you get a 755 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: deeper understanding of what it is, it's pretty pretty nifty. 756 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: I think the replica was made with brass instead of product. 757 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think it was brass instead 758 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: of bronze. So yeah, even more ship like then with 759 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: the brass and would combination. Yeah. There's recent scholarship going 760 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: on with a project called the Anti Kit through a 761 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 1: mechanism research project that's a collaborative project between lots of 762 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: different research organizations and individuals. Yeah, there's a mathematician named 763 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: Tony Freethe and UH he's been using imaging technology to 764 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of questions that remain about the mechanism. Yeah. 765 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 1: They the group, the research group was founded in two 766 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: thousand five and has been extremely active. They have sponsored 767 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: several museum exhibitions throughout the world. I think right now 768 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: as the record of this podcast, at least some of 769 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: the device is on display in UH in a museum 770 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: in Athens, but I believe that ends in January. Yeah, 771 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,760 Speaker 1: it's the it's an exhibition and called the Antikittheras Shipwreck, 772 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: the ship the Treasures and the mechanism, and it's at 773 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,959 Speaker 1: the National Archaeological Museum in Athens, Greece. YEA. And so 774 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: that of course has more than than the device itself. 775 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: It also has examples of the other stuff that was 776 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: found in that shipwreck, which, by the way, people have 777 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: gone back to that shipwreck and found more things around 778 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: it since that initial discovery. UM. And so there's there's 779 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: also been a lot of symposia that they've held. They've 780 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: had a lot of gatherings where they they combine research 781 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: and they published that research. There's lots of information on 782 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: their website about the device and the circumstances around its 783 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: discovery and just the process of discovery as we used 784 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: more and more sophisticated techniques to examine it. And it's 785 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: really a great resource. I highly recommend visiting that website. 786 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: I'll link to that on our Facebook page and Twitter 787 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,240 Speaker 1: handle so you guys can see it, because it's pretty 788 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 1: neat stuff. I mean, it's um, you know. I really 789 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 1: enjoyed reading about the process they went through as they 790 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: would learn more and more, and of course that hasn't finished. 791 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,439 Speaker 1: In fact, there's there's one thing, one question besides who 792 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,879 Speaker 1: built it that we don't know the answer to yet, 793 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: which is why did they build it? Like? Why is it? 794 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: Was it? What? What was the in purpose? Was it 795 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: a scholarly tool? Was it so that they could uh create, 796 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: you know, specifically plan out events to coincide with celestial events, 797 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,359 Speaker 1: so that perhaps it was a political tool. You know, 798 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: maybe if if an eclipse is seen as a bad omen, 799 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 1: you may want to avoid planning some big event around 800 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: an eclipse just so that people don't think that the 801 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: event itself is cursed. I mean it's I'm sure in 802 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: the ancient world you could probably get some amount of 803 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: power just by being able to accurately predict eclipses. Yeah. Yeah, 804 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,320 Speaker 1: and that's another possibility. It could just be religious power 805 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: or political power. We don't know, And it's possible that 806 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,280 Speaker 1: as much as we can learn about this device, maybe 807 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: we never really figure out with any degree of certainty 808 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: who built it or why it was built. In fact, 809 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: I'd be amazed if we ever are able to figure 810 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,520 Speaker 1: out who built it. That would be phenomenal to me. 811 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,320 Speaker 1: Unless someone's like, oh, look here there's an inscription on 812 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,799 Speaker 1: the bottom, Johan from Sweden. What that would That would 813 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 1: be a big upset, But not that I think that 814 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: would ever happen. But yeah, I mean it was I 815 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: want to float. Another possibility steampunks, all right, so steampunk 816 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 1: cost players. Yeah, but I'm thinking that it was a 817 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 1: steampunk convention. A certain doctor showed up at it, accidentally 818 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,560 Speaker 1: ended up grabbing this device, and on a further adventure, 819 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 1: maybe three episodes down the line, ended up accidentally dunking 820 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: it into the ocean off the coast degrease. That's exactly 821 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: what happened. Um, explains everything. Uh, did you see the 822 00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: the lego really cool? Now, this wasn't We probably might 823 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: not want to call it a replica because it's not 824 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 1: trying to copy the form of the original, just the function, right, 825 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 1: And even the function it was I think a limited 826 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: part of it because it was really showing things like 827 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,799 Speaker 1: eclipses in the uh in the the lego version, I 828 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: don't think it necessarily showed all the movements that the 829 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: Antikitthera device showed, because I was when I watched the 830 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,879 Speaker 1: videos that this is really clever because it would show 831 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: you the the date and uh when the next eclipse 832 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: would occur, whether it was solar or Luna or both. 833 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: But it didn't um both as in like a region 834 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: of time when both would occur, not both occurring at 835 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 1: the same time. UM necessarily, But the the it didn't 836 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: tell you things. It didn't tell you things like the 837 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,760 Speaker 1: movement of the planets as far as I could tell. 838 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,880 Speaker 1: So it was it had a limited set of functions 839 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: that the Antikithera device actually did. But it was still 840 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,840 Speaker 1: really cool to watch. It was really cool. Let me 841 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: tell you, I'm going to invented device and it's gonna 842 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: tell you it'll predict when the sun passes in front 843 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 1: of the moon that will be a bad day. I'm 844 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,839 Speaker 1: gonna make sure I stay indoors that day. What does 845 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 1: that call that's called like A? I think that's I 846 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 1: think that's called well, it doesn't really matter because we're No. 847 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: That's essentially called boy. It's sure as vaporized outside today, 848 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: isn't it. Ah? Yeah, No, that would not not go 849 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: over well. And that wraps up this classic episode about 850 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,840 Speaker 1: the oldest computer. Hope you guys enjoyed it. If you 851 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future topics or perhaps requests that 852 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 1: I never ever do an old man voice ever again, 853 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,840 Speaker 1: which is legit, you can reach out to me on Twitter. 854 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,919 Speaker 1: The handle is text stuff H s W and I'll 855 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is an 856 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 857 00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 858 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.