1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: I walked on a compound I'd just gotten there, and 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: this lady in this wheelchair looks at me. I guess 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking around loss And she said, what's your name? 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: I told her and she said, Alice Bloom, where your planted? 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: God knows where you are? 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: A woman in prison in a wheelchair. 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: Sir wheelchair said And she said, God knows where you are. 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: And that stuck with me, and I just kept walking around. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: I kept thinking, God, you do know where I am. 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 11 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 2: Inner City Memphis. And the last part it accidentally won 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: I believe our country's problems will never be solved by 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: words that nobody ever uses on CNN, and but rather 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: an army of normal folks, US just you and me 19 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 2: deciding hey, I can help. That's what Alice Marie Johnson, 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 2: the voice we just heard, has done, and she did 21 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: it while serving time in prison of all places. After 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: receiving a pardon, her service of those in prison didn't stop. 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: It's actually accelerated. I can't wait for you to meet 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: Alice right after these brief messages from our Genneral sponsors. Today, 25 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: Alice lives only thirty minutes from me in a place 26 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: called Olive Branch, Mississippi. It's just across the Tennessee, Misssippi 27 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: date line. And she grew up in Mississippi as well. 28 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: Now here's something that is a dying breed, Candidly, you 29 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: grew up the child of a sharecropper. 30 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: Yes, my father was a sharecropper and my mother was 31 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: the cook. And we were the ones who were in 32 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: the fields picking cotton. We the children, the children. 33 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, how old were. 34 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: You from the time I could put a sack on 35 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: my back? I think I had a pillowcase was my 36 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: first cotton sack. I probably was about three four when 37 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: they put me out there. 38 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: I've seen so many paintings, candidly, and old photographs of 39 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 2: as far as I could see a field of three 40 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: to four foot tall, yes, cotton plants and all those 41 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: white cotton buzzs, and then what you see scattered among 42 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: that field and the foreground and the background as far 43 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: as you can see. Our people bent over those bushes 44 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: picking cotton, throwing it in a bag. What were ours? 45 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: What was that like? 46 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: Sign up to sundown? They'd awaken us and we load 47 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: up in the back of the truck and or we'd 48 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: walk to the fields, depending upon how close they were. 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: We'd load up and we'd hit the fields. And one 50 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: of the prettiest siice that you could see as a 51 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: one who picked cotton was a pretty feel that had 52 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: big bowls of cotton, not the little scraunchy ones that 53 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: were easy. Yeah, those were easy, but the others would 54 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: stick your hands, so we'd walked to come back home 55 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: with cut hands. 56 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 2: Really, yes, So what does a sharecropper do when the 57 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: crops picked after the harvest is completed? What does a 58 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: sharecropper do? 59 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: Well? My father also he took care of the cows 60 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: and all of the livestop, so his job was not 61 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: only to be a sharecropper, but also for the people 62 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: whose place we lived on. He took care of the farm, 63 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,839 Speaker 1: the barns, everything else. My mother she cook, so we 64 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: would in the wintertime. Of course, during the summer we 65 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: had big gardens. We had to put things up for winter. 66 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: It was a different kind of life. So you're a 67 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: farm hand, yes, a farm hand. 68 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: But how did the pay work? People are so far 69 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 2: removed from this reality that is only two generations apart. 70 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people don't even understand how 71 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 2: it worked. But my understanding is you provided a place 72 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 2: to live on the property, but you're not paid much 73 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: and candidly, most of what you make you end up 74 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: spending at the company store. Absolutely well, tell us how 75 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: that works. 76 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: Okay, we would get credit at the store and whatever 77 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: my parents made doing the sea of picking cotton, and 78 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: it was very very little sense, and we really didn't 79 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: see the money too much. We had a little stipend 80 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: to get closed. My mother would make clothes, but we 81 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: would run a bill up at the general store that 82 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: the person who's placed, because that's what we called it, 83 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: their place that we lived on, and they would pay 84 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: the bill and whatever was left after the crop came in, 85 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: which we didn't really ever just know how much was left. 86 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: It was, Oh, they did, they did. That's why we 87 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: had to see. Where this started was in Cockrum, Mississippi, 88 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: when I was five years old. I hate to use 89 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: this word escape, but We escaped from that lifestyle because 90 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: every year we were told my father he had this 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: dream to go up north, that was a promised land, 92 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: that we were going to make enough and bring a 93 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: big enough crop in this year, that we're going to 94 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: go Indiana. We're going to move from down here were 95 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: other relatives. Some had gone to Chicago, you know, Indiana, 96 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: Gary and Anna and other places, and. 97 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: They were chasing good paying they. 98 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: Were tracing factory jobs, and that was the promised land 99 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,679 Speaker 1: to us. But this particular year, the year I turned five, 100 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: we were told we had one of the best crops. 101 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: We were told that there was no money left over, 102 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: and we thought we had my older siblings we had 103 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: really worked hard, and so my mother, who was a 104 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: great cook, she devised a plan to sell food out 105 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: of the back of the trunk of their car at 106 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: places where the property owner wouldn't know what we were doing. 107 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: So she would go to the black baseball players games 108 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: and she would sell all of this food. And they 109 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: started saving money. And in Olive Branch they had seen 110 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: a piece of land. It wasn't the two acres, and 111 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: they bought that land. Out of the money. My mother 112 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: was hustled and make it on the side, and they 113 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: bought a gym Walter home which. 114 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: Is which is a mobile home. 115 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: It's yes, well it's it's a prefabricated but it's not mobile. 116 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: It's not a mobile home. It's it's just pre Yes. 117 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: So after we finished working, after my father would finish 118 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: working in the barn at night, they would slip away 119 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: and go and hang sheep rock and just prepared and 120 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: was buying little pieces of furniture. So I can remember 121 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, I was awaken my cousins. 122 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: The lights were off. When I saw the movie Roots. 123 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: I said, they stole that from us, because in the 124 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: middle of the night they covered my mouth because I 125 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: talked a lot and they didn't want me to make 126 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: any noise. And I was placed in the car and 127 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: everybody else was quiet. We had the lights off, and 128 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: they were pushing our car and the trucks everything down 129 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: the road with the furniture in it. And as we 130 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: got closer and closer and we got out of earshot, 131 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: it was some hooping and hollering going on Bill because 132 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: we had escaped. Okay, so we were in Olive Branch. 133 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: Now this is nineteen sixty one, two three yes, uh huh, 134 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: all right, which is the Jim Crow air of the South. Yes, 135 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 2: but your parents. I don't even know how to say this, 136 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: but just to say it, I mean that only almost 137 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: feels like a slave escaping. 138 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: It did, it did. 139 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: But so share When you think of sharecropping, what's the 140 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 2: difference in that and slavery? 141 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: Really it's not that much of a difference. Really, it's 142 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: not that far removed, because you really someone else is 143 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: providing for you, supposedly, but you're working their crops, working 144 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: their farm, You're doing everything. 145 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: And you're never getting anything your own. 146 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: No how the house is, the house is not ours. 147 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: We were living on their place. The clothes on our 148 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: back were ores, the little pieces of furniture were ours. 149 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: We lived in a cinder block house and one time 150 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: there was fourteen of us there and all in that 151 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: little bitty house. So moving to Olive Branch, having our 152 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: bedroom and it was like we were going to a mansion. 153 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: It felt like that. And we were never to return 154 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: to that. But we still had cousins who had cotton fields. 155 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: We still worked, so we were still picking cotton. I 156 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: will say they would loan us out, the children out 157 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: to the cousins and we bring the crops in, but 158 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: this time we're doing it for our family. So my mother, 159 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: she was an excellent cook. She worked at the school 160 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: at one time that I attended as a cook. She 161 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: would work for the Lions Club, the Jayc's. Everyonebody knew 162 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,359 Speaker 1: that Sally Bowen had some of the best food anywhere. 163 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: Her dream was to own a restaurant, which she eventually did. 164 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 2: She have a coole. 165 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: Oh, she cooked every lord adversity. 166 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 2: For those who have never had oxtail prepared in the 167 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 2: South properly with the messo greenes and corn bread, you're 168 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: missing something. 169 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: Oh and don't we get turkey nicks. Oh with the 170 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: little graveyard. 171 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: Delicious light gravy, not the dark graus. 172 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, the light gravy. You can don't. 173 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: Most people listen us don't know nothing about that. 174 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: We need to pick some some real story. 175 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: Do they need to come on down home, Come. 176 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: On down some Southern hospitality. 177 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: So I have to ask you something before we get 178 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: to what happened after that in your life. Well, here's 179 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: the spoiler alert. You will talk later about a thirty 180 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 2: thousand foot view work that you do which is humanizing 181 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 2: those who are current society doesn't always necessarily humanize. We're 182 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: not even going to talk about that now, we're going 183 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: to get to that. But when I hear that that's 184 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: what your life's mission is now, and I hear just 185 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: about what you saw and went through with your siblings 186 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: and the life that your mother and father had to 187 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: lead to literally escape, I'm just gonna I can't help it. 188 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: I'm just unfiltered. I'm gonna say it. How do how 189 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: does that reality affect the way you view the way 190 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,239 Speaker 2: you fit in society? 191 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: For me, my family, my parents' life of survival, perseverance, 192 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: their faith, the hope that they gave us, and I 193 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: had a very unique family. We were a family of faith. 194 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: But my mother didn't see color. She was an avocate. 195 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: She was a woman ahead of her time. She would 196 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: fight for the poor whites and the blacks in our town. 197 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: She only had an eighth grade education, but often you 198 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: would see my mother show up in court and she 199 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: would convince the judge to basically give this person into 200 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: her care, and she'd get them on the right track. 201 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: I think it's fair. I think it's worth noting that 202 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: I know white families whose grandparents were sharecroppers, so there 203 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: were poor whites. 204 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: Oh for sure. For sure. For shere my mother befriended everyone. 205 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: One of the lessons I learned from her was she 206 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: was such a gentle woman. When different candidates ran for office, 207 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: she would write a note to the opposing party leader 208 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: and wish them luck and give them blessings that she 209 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: hoped they do well, and for them to remember who 210 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: they are there for the community. All that come from 211 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm telling you this is a 212 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: house I grew up in. We lived up on a 213 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: hill a little bit. Everyone had to sing or play 214 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: an instrument, so on Sundays you would hear my sister 215 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: playing the piano, and people were drawn to our house 216 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: to sing on Sundays. My mother always cooked more than 217 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: enough food just in case a stranger dropped by who 218 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: didn't have anything. So I grew up living watching this. 219 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: She was a strong community leader. In fact, I became 220 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: just so radicalized during the Civil rights movement because I 221 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: used to eavedrop on the conversations when she would have 222 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: them with her friends. They would talk about things that 223 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: were going on in this day and at our dinner table. 224 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: My mother knew that education was key, so My siblings 225 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: are our college educated and I was the one that 226 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: got married real, real young, but I still managed to 227 00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: take classes and graduate on time. But they really learned 228 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: the value of education and making sure that their children 229 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: had a good start in life. But I can say 230 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: that they modeled the behavior for us. I think it's 231 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: so important that my father was present in the house, 232 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: in our home, and I've said this, and I knew 233 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: the Lord's prayer before I knew my ABC's because he 234 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: truly was a praying man. So I'm very thankful for 235 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: the foundation that I had. Even though some things in 236 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,479 Speaker 1: my life took me in a different direction, that foundation 237 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: was still there, and I had seen faith lived out. 238 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: I've seen it walked out. I've seen it in cotton fields. 239 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: I seen it when times were hard and we didn't 240 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: have anything but a song, we break out into a 241 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: song to lift ourselves up. I've lived through tragedy. I've 242 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: lived through tragedy in the community of terrible things that 243 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: happened while I was growing up. But through all of that, 244 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: I still my mother told me, I know we're going 245 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: to get to that, But she told me when I 246 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: went to prison, don't ever forget who you are. Don't 247 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: ever forget who you are, that even though you're going 248 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: to that place, you don't have to be like everyone else. 249 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: It was basically, don't conform or don't go along to 250 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: get along. Remember your boglin. 251 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 2: I wish I could have met your mama. 252 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: I wish you could have too. She would have fed 253 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: you so good. 254 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: Oh I would have eaten so good to look at me. Yeah, 255 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: you know, I would have liked it so Honestly, You've 256 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: got a mother and father at home, you've got siblings 257 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: going to college. Clearly a lot of love, clearly a 258 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: lot of direction. Not wealthy by any means, for sure, 259 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: but you're getting You're getting by You had the initiative, 260 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: that your family had the initiative and gumption to get 261 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: away from sharecropping and save up money and buy a home. 262 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: And that doesn't sound like the track of a person 263 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: that ends up in college, in prison. And so let's 264 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: get to how that unfolded. I know, you got married 265 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 2: at fifteen and had a child, but you managed to 266 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: continue to get your education and you ended up going 267 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: to work for this little bitty company now called Fedax. 268 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: But for everybody, Olive Branch is literally a suburb of Memphis. 269 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: It's one of the northernmost cities in Mississippi. And when 270 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: you go from Olive Branch to Memphis, you really don't 271 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: notice any difference. 272 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: You don't know anything different. In fact, I lived I 273 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: lived in Memphis almost twenty years. It was in Memphis 274 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: from Memphis that I would go to prison. 275 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: So there it is so Olive Branch Memphis very similar. 276 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: And there's this new idea which is packages getting to somebody. 277 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: If you remember the phrase absolutely positively overnight. 278 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: Federal social service profit yep. 279 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 2: And this guy named Fred Smith had this Kakamamy idea 280 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 2: that you could build a hub and bring all the 281 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: packages into one hub, distribute them and ship them out 282 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: the next day and get any package anywhere absolutely positively 283 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 2: overnight and founded in Memphis. Still world headquarters are still 284 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: here in Memphis. Are probably most important employer in Memphis. 285 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 2: And you were employee number one hundred and sixty six 286 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 2: at this fledgling company called FedEx. Tell me how that 287 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: went well. 288 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: As I was getting my education, I married it as 289 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: we discussed at fifteen, but I knew that my husband 290 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: was not going to allow me to go to college. 291 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: So my senior year I went to saw your secretary 292 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: of college unbeknownst to him, and I could type really 293 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: really fast, and I was a good writer. 294 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: You must had to type fist so he didn't know. 295 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: He didn't get out, thank you. 296 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: I could type. Let me tell you something. I could 297 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: type ninety five words a minute with no errors. 298 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 2: Lord have mer that's fast. 299 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: Yes. So that would lead me into many good jobs. 300 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: And plus I had very good work ethics, so I 301 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: would quickly be recognized as a good employee. So when 302 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: I got the job at FedEx, it was because I 303 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: was working at the Memphis Urban League. By this time, 304 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: I have five children. Me and my husband I married, 305 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: is going crazy because he still thinks he's single. Yeah, 306 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: that's a whole nother thy Yeah, we won't get it. 307 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: We'll get into that. We're won't get into that. He's 308 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: now brother in Christ even though we're divorced. But I 309 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: got the job at the Urban League. And Jim Perkins, 310 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: who was the senior VP over personnel at FedEx. 311 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 312 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: He was one of the first few at fed X, 313 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: and he was on the board of directors for the 314 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: Urban League and his mentee was killed in a car 315 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: accident Greg, and when I came in. Because the way 316 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: that I deal with pain and anything else is I write. 317 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: I love to write poetry. So I wrote a poem 318 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: about how it felt walking into the office that morning 319 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: and Greg is gone, and someone showed it, took it 320 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: to the board meeting. Jim Perkins saw it and asked 321 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: who wrote this? And I came in. He had tears 322 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: in his eyes because this was his was like a 323 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: son to him, and he asked me if he could 324 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: send it to his mother. And he said, you work, 325 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: you you work? You like working here? Yes, I love it? 326 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: He said, what you like to work for fed X? 327 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: It was Federal Express at time. And I talked to 328 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: them about my skills, and I went to personnel and 329 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: I set that type right on fire, and they hired men. 330 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: This secretary of pool, I wasn't in there six months. 331 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: I was recognized for my I'd always had these this 332 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: idea that if I wasn't at least thirty minutes early 333 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: for work, I'm late. And so I always showed up early, 334 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 1: and I'm the first one and last one to leave 335 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: if they need someone. And so my work ethics were recognized, 336 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: and in no time I was a manager. I was 337 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: a manager first in computer ops. That was a miracle 338 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: in itself because I didn't know anything about computers. But 339 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: I was a great motivator and people person, and between 340 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: all of the technical people, they were missing a people person. 341 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: But it didn't take me long to learn about computers 342 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: and how to recognize problems because my mind was like 343 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: a sponge, and because things my children were my life 344 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: and my job, and they were my family, you know, 345 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: plus my faith. So I learned everything that I could, 346 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: and then I promoted again, and then I started training 347 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: people for management, and then I got a divorce after 348 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: nighteen years of my life kind of fell apart. 349 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But 350 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: first I hope you'll subscribe to the podcast so that 351 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: you get the newest episodes in your library every week. 352 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 2: And please consider signing up to join the Army at 353 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: Normalfolks dot us because together we can change the country. 354 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: And you'll also receive weekly email updates about the Army. 355 00:21:51,480 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. So you were at faed Ax 356 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: how long them? 357 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: Ten years? 358 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: Ten years? And you go from the secretary pool up 359 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: to flying around the country training folks at different places 360 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 2: and some fat Acts, which is phenomenal. You're the daughter 361 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: of a sharecropper and you end up a mid level 362 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: manager at fat Axe. 363 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: Yes, you had arrived. I had arrived, so I thought. 364 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: And you get a divorce and now you're a divorce 365 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: mom of five. 366 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, my husband disappears, no help, and for the first 367 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: time in my life, I'm seeing life differently. Casinos come, 368 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: dog track is here, excitement and otherwise dull life. I 369 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: got in over my head bill and before I knew it, 370 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: I didn't have a job, my house was about to 371 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: be fore closed. I'm about to file bankruptcy, and life 372 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: is going crazy. 373 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: So you were gambling at it? 374 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: I was gambling. I't really it was. I didn't even 375 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 1: realize I was a gambling attic until the money started 376 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: going to casinos and dog tracks and not to pay bills. 377 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: It was exciting. That's why I don't. It's very few 378 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: games I even play now. 379 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: So when I read that, and I'm gonna tell you something, 380 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: I love to play poker. I love to sit down 381 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 2: and play poker, play poker friends. I used to. I 382 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 2: played poker in Vegas sometimes. If I could ever get 383 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: two weeks of my life where I didn't have everything 384 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: to go. I would love to go play in the world. 385 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 2: She there's a poker because I really enjoy playing and 386 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: in poker terms and poker, I love it. And you know, 387 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: like anything like drinking or alcohol or whatever, gambling and 388 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 2: playing poker is no different. You know, you've got to 389 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: have a limit, you got to keep it and then 390 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 2: you can't let it overcome you. But as I was 391 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: reading your story, I wondered, and I couldn't help, but wonder, 392 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 2: did you like maybe a little financial literacy at that time? 393 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: But sure, well my circumstance, I will say, before then, 394 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: I had good credit, I paid my bills. I didn't 395 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: have a lot of money left over because by this 396 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: time I have a daughter that's in college, yourself and 397 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: some more in the pipeline. It's going to be going soon. 398 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: But I had no financial help from their father, so 399 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: I'm really footing everything by myself. But the the gambling 400 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: gave me an out. It put me into another whole 401 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: world that I'd never seen before. But now you know, 402 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: I look back on it, and I was going further 403 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: in deeper down. You know, once you start losing, you 404 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: try to win a jackpot while you losing a jackpot. 405 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: I was winning the very thing that I was called chasing. 406 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: Yes. So then once I was in so deep, I 407 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: couldn't find my way out, and my finances are going 408 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: absolutely crazy, I have nobody to turn to. And plus 409 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: it was a matter of pride to because my siblings 410 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: are all extremely successful, my parents are upstanding, and I 411 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: just didn't want to be seen as a failure. That 412 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: was pride. I think if I had talked to somebody 413 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: about what I was really going through, and at times 414 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: I wonder if I even had a breakdown, because I 415 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: was no longer thinking I was spiraling. I was spiraling there. 416 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: The more I looked at the whole listening to some 417 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: of my situation, the more I was going further in. 418 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: And so when an offer came to me to be 419 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: what it's called a telephone mule, I'm like, I don't 420 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: know anything about drugs. This offer came. Do you know, 421 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: I don't know anyone. The person who I was seeing 422 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: said what did you tell him? As I told him no, 423 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: and he says to me, I said you know someone? 424 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: He said, yeah, you're looking at him and it's someone 425 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: that I started dating. And I don't blame him because 426 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: I made that bad decision. 427 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: Most people don't know. Unfortunately, I do know what a 428 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 2: telephone mule is because I've been around some folks who 429 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: have lived that life. Let's let's explain to our listeners 430 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: before we go any further, exactly what a telephone. 431 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: You tell us a telephone mule means. I was the 432 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: perfect person. I never thought of criminal ideas before in 433 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: my life. 434 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: Clean. 435 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm the perfect person. If someone comes to town, 436 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: they're given my number, they don't tell me who they are. 437 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: They just tell me this is the number with the 438 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: cold to tell them to call. And I passed the 439 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: number and I go back to bed. They don't know me, 440 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: and somehow in my own head, and I'm not even 441 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: trying to pretend to be innocent, I knew what I 442 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: did was wrong, but I helped my conscience by saying, 443 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm not a drug seller. That's not who I am. 444 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 2: So what would happen is somebody comes to Memphis or 445 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: any city, any country, because a telephone mule is. 446 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: The operator for this, it's operation, it's the operator for them. 447 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: They don't know they're sent by a cartel or someone 448 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: above them to take these drugs somewhere. That's all they're told. 449 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: And they're given the amount of money because they're a mule. 450 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: They're mule too, all right. 451 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: And so when they load up and bring drugs and 452 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 2: they get to wherever they're supposed to do, they're told 453 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: call this number. And when they call that number, they 454 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: don't know who they're talking to. It's you on their line. 455 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: You don't know who you're talking. 456 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: To, which keeps everyone safe. Who's really the leader, who's 457 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: really doing it? 458 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: They're breaking chain of customs. 459 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: That's exactly what they're doing. 460 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: So you have a number that you know this person's 461 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 2: gonna call me when they call. 462 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: Give them another correct not even give them a number. 463 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: Another number just passed at one time. I didn't pass 464 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: two numbers. It's just the initial contact and then I 465 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: guess they go to and follow out and that's it. 466 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: Now they getting contact with whoever they're delivering. 467 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: That's correct, So and you're out sounds nothing. The first 468 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: time I got one thousand dollars, I literally kept my 469 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: life so that we bought food, and after that I 470 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: felt terrible about it. Then my son got killed in 471 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: a car in a scooter accident, and that's when everything 472 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: in my life completely went crazy. 473 00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 2: You were already hanging over about them. 474 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: I was hanging on by a thread. Here I am 475 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: with my youngest son, he's twelve. His brother's driving a scooter. 476 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: They get hit a by another teenager, and I'm in 477 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: the crazy I'm in the twilight zone for real. I 478 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: don't even have money to bury my son. It's whatever. 479 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: I'm sitting in a dark house most of the time 480 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: in grief. This goes on, and in the course of time, 481 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: the person who was coming in got busted and he 482 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: had my phone number, and that's when the house of 483 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: cars fell down. There's so many different things involved in 484 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: this whole thing. I didn't really know about conspiracy. I'm 485 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: thinking my family. I don't have any money. In fact, 486 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: when I was arrested there was nothing to be seized, 487 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: but the people who testified against me had cars, seeds, 488 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: home seised money, seeds. I've got five hundred dollars in 489 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: the It goes through. But you know, to get past 490 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: all of that, I learned about conspiracy. I was found 491 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: guilty of attempted possession because I didn't have drugs, and 492 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: I was offered three years, went to tryal and. 493 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 2: When you were offered three years, probably that's is that 494 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: federal time. 495 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: Federal. 496 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 2: So you're offered three years and your life's in a tornado. 497 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: You spent ten years in Federacs, got this great job, 498 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: a gambling addiction later, a divorce, later, hooked up with 499 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: a pretty bad dude. That sounds like later, the death 500 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: of a son. Later. Now you're faced with do I 501 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: say okay and go to prison for three years and 502 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 2: you don't even have money for I guess you're getting 503 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 2: a quarter point and an attorney. No. 504 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: My family, they gathered, they had a meeting. My mother 505 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: was just tore up. She had no idea that I 506 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: was involved in something like this. No one in my 507 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: family knew. I mean no one in my family had 508 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: You didn't I didn't grow up in Plus, none of 509 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: my siblings have ever had a run in with the law. 510 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: And from all appearances, I've never had not just appearances, 511 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: the truth, I've never had been criminally minded. My children, 512 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: you better not steal nothing. I came to Memphis. I 513 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: had an opportunity to be on welfare and everything, but 514 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: I didn't want my children to see that as an example. 515 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: So I took that little low paying job because I 516 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: didn't want to take money from the government. I didn't 517 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: want to get a check in the mail. I don't 518 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: want free stuff. I want to work for what I get. 519 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: So I'm used to working and working hard, and this 520 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: is totally I don't even know what I'm doing. Ignorance 521 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: of the law is no excuse for breaking the law. 522 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: So I put myself in a position to even come 523 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: in contact with the law because if I had not 524 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: did something that was wrong, I wouldn't have had to 525 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: worry about that. 526 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. I said this to John Ponder, 527 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 2: who I know, you know, and he now uses it. 528 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: There's a vernacular related to the judicial system that people 529 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: will say, I caught a charge. 530 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: I caught a charge, all right. 531 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 2: Well, John was talking in an interview I did with 532 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: him months ago, and he was talking about catching a 533 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 2: charge or this guy caught a charge. He may have 534 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: been speaking of himself catching charge, and I interrupted. I said, John, 535 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: I got to talk to you about something. He said, 536 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: all right, and I said, I'd never heard the phrase 537 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 2: I caught a charge before. I was in my early thirties. 538 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 2: I was at an asses and a kid was talking 539 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 2: about house cousin got busted and caught a charge. And 540 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 2: I said, he what he said? He caught a charge? 541 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: I said, dude, you catch a colt, you catch the flu. 542 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 2: That's something that happens to you earn a charge. And 543 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 2: John started laughing. And now John no longer uses the 544 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: terminology or caught a charge, You earn a charge. But 545 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 2: the reason I'm saying this is because it's refreshing. You 546 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 2: want to tell your story, because you need to tell 547 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 2: your story to explain everything about your life and what 548 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 2: you're doing now. But you don't tell your story. And 549 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 2: I've never heard you or seen you write and tell 550 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: your story and then somehow allow yourself to be a 551 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: victim of it or use it as an excuse. You 552 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 2: freely admit that you earned this problem with the law 553 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 2: because of your own actions, and instead of trying to 554 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 2: point and blame somebody else and everything else. And you know, 555 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 2: I think that gives what you're doing now even more validity. Bill. 556 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: I just don't want anyone to look at me as 557 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: a victim. The sentence was too long, I will say that, 558 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: but that's a broken judicial system. It was way too 559 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: much for what I did, and never having been in 560 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: trouble when I looked at people who were getting the 561 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: same sentence as I received. There were murderers, yeah, and 562 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: so from that standpoint, but I really exposed myself to 563 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: get any sentence by the thing that I myself did. 564 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: Nor do I want any child or my children to 565 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: make excuses for wrong actions. 566 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 2: It's so refreshing, and I commend you so much for that, 567 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: because somebody who had been through what you've been through, 568 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: you could almost justify and understand. While they would not 569 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 2: accept total responsibility for their actions, but you do. It's 570 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I think you're so inspiring. 571 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 2: So you're offered three years and you're giving advice not 572 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 2: to take it to me. 573 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: Attorney tells me, don't do it. Don't take it. He said, 574 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: they have nothing on you. He said that they gave 575 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: me a ten thousand dollars bond, that others a bond, 576 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: a very low bond. The ones who testified against me couldn't. 577 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 2: Get a bond. They were held without bail. 578 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: That they couldn't get a buck. 579 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: Because they were really the ones doing the stuff. 580 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: The cops knew it, and they had long histories to Oh, 581 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: they had sheets, they had rap sheets. I had nothing. 582 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: He said, we can beat this. He said, where's the beef, 583 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: Where is the beef, where's the drugs? Where's the money? 584 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 2: But you had no money and no drugs. So I 585 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 2: go to try which again you earned that you did that. 586 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: That was wrong, that was absolutely wrong because I was 587 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: a part of it. I was a part of this 588 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: whole thing. 589 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: But you weren't running any cartels. 590 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: Oh for sure, for sure, absolutely not. So we go 591 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: to trial and it looks like we're winning. 592 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 2: Honestly, six you're feeling good about it. 593 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm feeling pretty good. He's feeling good about it. Then 594 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: we get the note that the jury is hung and 595 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: they're crying and they're arguing, and then they send a 596 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: note out asking what is Can they explain conspiracy? I 597 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: didn't have conspiracy explained to me either, So that was explained. 598 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 2: Explain it to us. 599 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: A conspiracy means that you have responsible for every action 600 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: that's committed doing the furtherance. 601 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 2: Of the crime, every action, not even your. 602 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: Every action, everything you helped show the. 603 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 2: Mule, the cartels, the folks selling her on the street, 604 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 2: the guy delivering her to the dude on the corner. 605 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: The candle, especially if you go to trial, you're gonna 606 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: get what's called the trial penalty. 607 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: So as a conspirator, you're associated with every everything. If 608 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 2: I drop a buddy of mine off at a convenience 609 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 2: store and he goes in and robs and shoots somebody 610 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 2: and kills them because he rode with me, could I 611 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 2: be brought up on the spirits and watch it. I 612 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 2: could serve time for murder. 613 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: You would, you? She would? 614 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: And so that's the place you found yourself. 615 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're involved in a conspiracy. You're going to be 616 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: called the getaway driver, and you're going to receive the 617 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: same charge. 618 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 2: What if I don't even know that guy's got a 619 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 2: gun and he's going to. 620 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: Steal charge your cold conspiratory real. 621 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 2: Somebody rides with me, I have no idea he's got 622 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 2: a gun, and he says, let me go in here 623 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 2: and get a cold beer. And while he's in there, 624 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 2: he tries to rob the place, shoot somebody. Get to 625 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 2: my or because I delivered him, I could be brought 626 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 2: up on conspiracy. 627 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: They're not going to believe that you didn't know. Prove it, 628 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: prove it, prove that you didn't know. 629 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 2: So they looked at you and said prove that all 630 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 2: you did was answer numbers. 631 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: Absolutely, prove it. These people say, how can you how can. 632 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 2: You prove a false negative? How can you disprove a 633 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 2: false negative? 634 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm in it. They have my number, so and I guess. 635 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 2: Somebody called you to give you numbers. So you had 636 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 2: two sets of numbers. 637 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm tired. 638 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 2: I'm so you're dead in the middle of it. 639 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm dead on a rival that I 640 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: should have been fighting. But that was part of my 641 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: journey that I now know that I had to take. 642 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: And I can tell you this, looking you in your eyes, 643 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,439 Speaker 1: that God did not put me in prison. He used 644 00:38:58,480 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: me in prison. 645 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 2: So you turned down. Three years, you go to trial, 646 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 2: You're feeling good about it. The note comes back about conspiracy. 647 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 2: They find you guilty. 648 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: In your sentence to life plus twenty five years without parole. 649 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 2: And federal times so people know they're inding parole. Right. 650 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: That's why it was without parole because there is no parole, 651 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: and a life sentence in the federal system is called 652 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: an unexecuted sentence of death because it is executed when 653 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: you die. 654 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 2: Was this at the time of mandatory sentencing und charges? 655 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 2: So the judge sentenced you to what was mandated by law. 656 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 2: The judge had no The judge couldn't have said, they 657 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: find you guilty. I do too, but I believe you 658 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 2: were really lightly involved. I'm going to give you three years. 659 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 2: The judge has a set of mandatory sentencing guidelines that 660 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 2: he has to give, and they have to give it 661 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 2: to you. 662 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: The only time that I had a choice was to 663 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: take a plea. 664 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 2: Before the started, and when you decided not take the 665 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 2: plea and not take the three years, and you go to. 666 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: Trial even while the jury was deliberating. I was offered 667 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: eight years, and I'm like. 668 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:19,919 Speaker 2: You offered me three two months ago. 669 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,479 Speaker 1: Right, Maybe I could have negotiated at that point. 670 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 2: Did your attorney not tell you, never, you don't take 671 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 2: this three years, you could be looking at life. 672 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 1: Never. I never even knew that a life sentence was 673 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: on the table. 674 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 2: So the second form of a literacy that I think 675 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 2: plagues people mis financial literacy, but I think judicial and 676 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 2: absolutely judicial and civic illiteracy is the reason many of 677 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: our jails are full. Would you agree with that? 678 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: I would, even with some of the work that I'm 679 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: doing now with talking to young people and really educating them, too, 680 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: not just the education part, but really a change of 681 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: mindset when you do things. I'm not saying I was 682 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: a child, but I had the same knowledge as a 683 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: young person doing something absolutely idiotic. They are doing things 684 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: now not realizing that this is going to cost them 685 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: their life, and I. 686 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 2: Want people to hear me. I wish this was video. 687 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: I am sitting across the table from a beautiful woman 688 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 2: who is dressed beautifully, has a beautiful smile, has a 689 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 2: bright eyes, fingernails are done, has a heart lock it 690 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 2: around her neck. Don't sensationalize or stereotype people have been 691 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 2: to prison because I promise you, somebody came across you. 692 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 2: They'd never see that. And I got to imagine that 693 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 2: the woman at FedEx that grew up the daughter of 694 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 2: sharecroppers never envisioned that there was trauma in your life. 695 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 2: You fell in a hole, you made a mistake, and 696 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 2: a screwed up mandatory sentencing based on drugs because of 697 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 2: the War on drugs and really poor advice from attorney. 698 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 2: You're going to jail for the rest of your life, 699 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 2: and after you die, I guess you get to serve 700 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 2: another twenty five years because that's a sentence you're gone, 701 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 2: your family's gone, your life's gone. It's over. You're going 702 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 2: to jail and you will never see that outside of 703 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 2: the walls. 704 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: Right, that's what they say it. And you were how 705 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 1: old forty one? 706 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 2: I I just can't imagine at that moment, just that 707 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 2: moment despair that you must have felt. 708 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: It was unbelievable, especially when they took me back to 709 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: my jail cell and I heard that door slam. It's real, 710 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: it was real. And honestly, it was my foundation of 711 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,440 Speaker 1: faith really that caused me when I fell on my knees, 712 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: when I fell down, because I know in who I believe, 713 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: and I prayed and I asked God to show me 714 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: my purpose in this because I didn't. I couldn't. There 715 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: was nothing else. 716 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 2: Could you find a purpose? 717 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: Show me something, show me something, show me something. This 718 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: has to count for something. And so right then I 719 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: just made a viow that I'm never going to give 720 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: up my faith or my hope and and I've got 721 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: to live life. I'm not going to allow anyone to 722 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: take my life. I'm in this situation. I'm not dead, 723 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: I'm still healthy, and it's got to be something in here. 724 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 1: But I guess when I hit federal ground in saw 725 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 1: where were you in prison? 726 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 2: First? 727 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,280 Speaker 1: In California, I was sitting fifteen. 728 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 2: I sent you all the way to California, fifteen. 729 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: Hundred miles away from my kids. Well that was very 730 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: nice something, Yeah, that was extremely nice, lovely. Yeah, it 731 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: was Dublin FCI Doublin. It was in Pleasanton, California, up 732 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: in the mountains. And I walked on that compound, ID 733 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: just gotten there in this lady in this wheelchair looks 734 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: at me. I guess I'm looking around lost And she said, 735 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: what's your name? I told her and she said, Alice Bloom, 736 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: where you're planted? God knows where you are. 737 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 2: A woman in prison in a wheelchair and a. 738 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: Wheelchair said that. She said, God knows where you are. 739 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: And that stuck with me and I just kept walking around. 740 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: I kept thinking, God, you do know where I am. 741 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,240 Speaker 1: And when I said that, you might think I'm kidding. 742 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: I did a skip? 743 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 2: You did a what a skip? Did you really? 744 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: I did a skip? I did a skip because they said, God, 745 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: you know where I am. 746 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of my conversations with Alice 747 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,399 Speaker 2: Marie Johnson, and you do not want to miss part two. 748 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 2: That's now available, as we dive into how Alice actually 749 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 2: did bloom in prison. Frankly, I expect you'll be as 750 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,439 Speaker 2: shocked as I was hearing about all the extraordinary things 751 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 2: that she did in prison. I'll see in Part ten.