1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: Ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always so much for tuning in.

2
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,200
Speaker 1: This is a classic episode for you. Some of us

3
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 1: are on the road, some of us are on adventures.

4
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,400
Speaker 1: But before we go, you know, we couldn't leave you

5
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: without a dope. Beat to step two and been Bullen

6
00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 1: joined with our super producer Max Williams. Max, there are

7
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,960
Speaker 1: corpses in dioramas, or there were?

8
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 2: There were?

9
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 3: Or are they still in dioramas? So when I saw

10
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,120
Speaker 3: the title of this one, so a little behind the scenes.

11
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 3: These episodes are from before I worked on the show,

12
00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 3: so I'm learning these normally with like you know, the listeners.

13
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 3: But it reminded me of when we did the crash

14
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,519
Speaker 3: Test Dummies episode a couple of years back, Yeah, where

15
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,480
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, they used corpses in the past

16
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 3: to test them and then the answer was they still

17
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,640
Speaker 3: use corpses. Are they still using corpses in dioramas?

18
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 1: Ben, Well, I'm glad you asked, Max, because if they are,

19
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,040
Speaker 1: it is not sanctioned today. However, in this classic episode,

20
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 1: we're going to learn how the Carnegie Museum of Natural

21
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: History did use corpses in dioramas. If you're interested in

22
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 1: learning about more strange uses for corpses. Check out the

23
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 1: earlier car Stuff episode on the Grizzly history of crash

24
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 1: test dummies, as well as our Ridiculous History episode on

25
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,760
Speaker 1: the same subject. For now, folks, if you get squigged

26
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 1: out by things that are a little bit macabre, then

27
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 1: this episode might not be for you, but for everybody else.

28
00:01:38,600 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 1: Welcome to Ridiculous History. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello. Hello, Hello,

29
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 1: friends and neighbors. Thank you for tuning in. We'd like

30
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 1: to start today's show with a question, what was the

31
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:25,000
Speaker 1: first museum you went to, or, if you prefer, what's

32
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,639
Speaker 1: the weirdest exhibit you have ever seen in a museum?

33
00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,640
Speaker 2: Are you asking me? Or is this for the is that?

34
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:31,640
Speaker 2: Are we pulling the audience?

35
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 1: This is foreveryone.

36
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 2: Do we have to wait for the results to come in.

37
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 1: We'll have to wait for you all listening. But I'd

38
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,519
Speaker 1: like to hear from you now. I'm Ben your knowing.

39
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Ben, Thank you for introducing me. I

40
00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,720
Speaker 2: appreciate it. The first, that's a first? Is that a first?

41
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 4: That's a first?

42
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,800
Speaker 1: I feel like we're getting more organic with our intros.

43
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 2: Almost like we're getting a little familiar. It's like we've

44
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 2: done a few of these.

45
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 1: It's like we're becoming veterans. Which funny story. Did you

46
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,239
Speaker 1: notice that in the initial pro for this show we're

47
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,040
Speaker 1: referred to as veteran podcasters.

48
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 2: Veteran podcasters, that means we've been to podcast war.

49
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,920
Speaker 1: That's true. We came out changed. But the only way

50
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,040
Speaker 1: we got through that, and the only way we get

51
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,359
Speaker 1: through this show, of course, is with our super producer,

52
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: Casey Pegrom that part of the intro. We're always going

53
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: to keep it.

54
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 5: I'll never get tired of it. And I mean that

55
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,359
Speaker 5: with my whole entire heart. Speaking of whole entire hearts,

56
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 5: I will answer real quick your question. I recently went

57
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 5: to a museum that had that was by far the

58
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 5: most bizarre and amazing display of stuff I'd ever experienced.

59
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 5: A place called the Museum of Death in Los Angeles,

60
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 5: was also one in New Orleans, and it has everything

61
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 5: from preserved human hearts, you know, in glass.

62
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 2: Jars, to fetuses. There's a whole section on embalming and

63
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 2: funereal kind of relics from, you know, the way they

64
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 2: used to do things back in in times. Spoiler alert

65
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 2: wasn't pretty and an array of grizzly, grizzly crime scene photos,

66
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 2: the likes of which I've never seen anywhere in my

67
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,000
Speaker 2: entire life, just the stuff of nightmares.

68
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: Follow up question, Yes, do they have a gift shop? Oh?

69
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 2: Big time. I bought a coffee mug. And one of

70
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,120
Speaker 2: the things they also had in this museum was a

71
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:25,440
Speaker 2: whole room devoted to taxidermy, in particular a section with

72
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,919
Speaker 2: beloved pets that had been taxidermized.

73
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 1: Taxi dermy, taxidermy.

74
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 2: That seems better, That seems more right, taxt boom.

75
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 1: If you want to be cool, what about you?

76
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:36,160
Speaker 2: Ben?

77
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for asking, man. Yeah, I love museums. It's no secret.

78
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 1: Anybody who interacts in the world as social media and

79
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 1: finds me on there will typically see that. Whenever I

80
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 1: travel to a new city, the first thing I want

81
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 1: to do is find a museum. And we are very fortunate,

82
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 1: you and Casey and I altogether, because the United States

83
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,040
Speaker 1: is chock full of fantastic museum just lousy with them,

84
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: just lousy, rife with them. There should be a museum

85
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 1: about museums. Is that too metal?

86
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,440
Speaker 2: That's way too many.

87
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,279
Speaker 5: You immediately get swallowed up into some kind of time

88
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,480
Speaker 5: space wormhole.

89
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 1: So what would the gift shop sell? Would they sell

90
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 1: gift shops? I can't even then, Noel is shaking his head. Here.

91
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 1: The Carnegie Museum of Natural History is the setting for

92
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,600
Speaker 1: our episode today, or at least our starting point. And

93
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:31,560
Speaker 1: have you been to the Carnegie pas?

94
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 2: I have not. I am a shamefully under museumed. I've

95
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 2: been to a handful of cool art museums, but not

96
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,159
Speaker 2: very many natural history museums. I've been the one in

97
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 2: New York. I've been to the matt Obviously, there's a

98
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 2: natural history museum here in Atlanta, Fernbank, fern Bank that

99
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 2: I have never been to. Spoiler alert. We might take

100
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,599
Speaker 2: a trip there one day for a little extra credit.

101
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 1: Yes, behind the scenes, I have been cajoling Casey and

102
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,559
Speaker 1: Noel to come check out fern Bank. I have nothing

103
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 1: but good thing to say about it.

104
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 2: Do they have a mammoth?

105
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,200
Speaker 1: They do not, as far as I know.

106
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not going.

107
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I will text you pictures.

108
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 2: I'll go great. Great.

109
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:11,480
Speaker 1: They also have an IMAX.

110
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 2: I don't want to. I don't want to experience fomo.

111
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 1: Right right, especially at a museum.

112
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 2: No museum, fomo is the worst.

113
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:24,479
Speaker 1: So the Carnegie Museum of Natural History has a wealth

114
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,159
Speaker 1: of exhibits, and this is a story prestigious institution. One

115
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:35,479
Speaker 1: of their exhibits is called Lion Attacking a Dromedary.

116
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, it's funny. I've seen they call

117
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 5: them dioramas, which I think is interesting. When I think

118
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,680
Speaker 5: of a diorama, I think of the shoe getting out

119
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 5: of a shoe box and cut out little you know,

120
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,280
Speaker 5: the baby Jesus or something. But no, these this is

121
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 5: a diorama in that it's posed taxidermid creatures in very

122
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 5: dramatic throes of action. Right, this one is no exception.

123
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,320
Speaker 5: It is a dramedary, a camel and a lion that

124
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 5: is just like I mean, it's really quite remarkable.

125
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,840
Speaker 2: There's a dead female lion on the ground.

126
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:10,920
Speaker 5: Inexplicably, they don't you don't really understand what happened to

127
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 5: the dramedary gnaw it.

128
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 1: To death because you stomp it, more likely.

129
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,280
Speaker 2: Stomp it, I guess, yeah, I guess they they've got

130
00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 2: some stomping power.

131
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 5: But the lion is just on it, just set upon

132
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 5: this dramendary that is, you know, just in these throes

133
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 5: of agony. Its head, you know, rearing back, its teeth exposed,

134
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 5: and it just looks really pained.

135
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 2: And then on top of this drameddary is a rider,

136
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,920
Speaker 2: right ben mm hmm. Absolutely, So this is a snapshot.

137
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 2: It's as though you're viewing a three D photograph, a tableau.

138
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 2: We're entering in media arrests in the middle of the story,

139
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 2: and there is a rider here, a man who is

140
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 2: riding the camel being attacked by this lion, possibly an

141
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 2: act of vengeance on the male lion's part, because you'll

142
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 2: notice when you pull up the photo the man is

143
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 2: holding a knife in his right hand as he leans

144
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,880
Speaker 2: away from the attacking male lion. And just to get

145
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 2: this out of the way, we know that taxidermy can

146
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: seem a little controversial or even creepy to some people

147
00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 2: a little bit, and that's understandable. We know that the

148
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 2: animals in this are taxidermy. They were once living and

149
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 2: now they have been transformed into these sculptures. But there

150
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:39,000
Speaker 2: was a strange, gruesome twist that people discovered after this

151
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,680
Speaker 2: diorama was made, and it's the following. It turns out

152
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 2: the rider in this diorama is not entirely artificial. Yeah,

153
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that's certainly. The implication here is that, okay,

154
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,360
Speaker 2: the lion's taxidermy, the lion asksays, the dramedary is, but

155
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 2: the guy on top is, you know, presumed to be

156
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 2: a mannequin of some sort. Mostly, yeah, that's true, except

157
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 2: when you take a good look at this guy's face

158
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,200
Speaker 2: very expertly rendered, might I add by French taxidermist and

159
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 2: naturalist Eduard Verreau in the mid eighteen hundreds, very very

160
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,079
Speaker 2: amazing attention to detail on this guy's face. But when

161
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,719
Speaker 2: you look at the teeth, there's something about it. It's

162
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 2: a little off or maybe a little too on.

163
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the phrase, a little too on the

164
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,559
Speaker 1: teeth give it away. And in the early nineteen nineties,

165
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 1: conservation records indicated that the conservators of the museum and

166
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,720
Speaker 1: of the piece said, wait a second, I know my

167
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 1: mannequin teeth, and these teeth are too real.

168
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's an amazing photograph of it up close on

169
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 5: a National Geographic article called one hundred and fifty year

170
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,960
Speaker 5: old Diorama surprises scientists with human remains, Because yes, the

171
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 5: basis for this, this mannequin head was in fact a

172
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,960
Speaker 5: human skull of undetermined or at least quite difficult to

173
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 5: determine origins. And they found this out after doing a

174
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 5: CT scan of the thing. So basically, the skull was

175
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,920
Speaker 5: the basis. Everything was molded around the skull to get

176
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 5: that shape, and then the teeth were laid bare, you know,

177
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 5: like those are.

178
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 2: The teeth and it. You know, if you look at

179
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 2: this close up, you can really tell.

180
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 1: Yes, you can really tell because the face itself, which

181
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,000
Speaker 1: has been constructed, as you mentioned, from the skull, the

182
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:39,520
Speaker 1: face obviously builds on anatomical patterns. Muscles, the eyes are

183
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,480
Speaker 1: clearly fake.

184
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 2: Right.

185
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 1: You get that it's supposed to be a person, but

186
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 1: you don't think it's a corpse until you see the teeth,

187
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: which are weathered, they're stained, there's some gaps in there,

188
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 1: they're ground flat in some places. And now that we

189
00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,160
Speaker 1: have the benefit of knowing what we're getting into two,

190
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,720
Speaker 1: it clearly sticks out. But we have to wonder, were

191
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,360
Speaker 1: we strolling through the Carnegie Museum if we would have

192
00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,120
Speaker 1: noticed this, would we be the kind of people who

193
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 1: stop and say, whoa, those teeth are too real? I

194
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:14,960
Speaker 1: doubt it.

195
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,160
Speaker 2: It took an expert, and like you mentioned earlier, Ben,

196
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 2: it wasn't until the early nineties that conservation records showed

197
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,800
Speaker 2: that some of the folks involved in, you know, preserving

198
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 2: these artifacts, did suspect that the teeth were in fact real,

199
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 2: just the teeth. But it wasn't until just a couple

200
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 2: of years ago in twenty sixteen, when it was taken

201
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 2: off exhibit to be cleaned up and restored and also researched,

202
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,680
Speaker 2: they discovered that it was in fact a human skull

203
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 2: and not just human teeth. So there's a really really

204
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:50,600
Speaker 2: problematic story that led up to this discovery, and it

205
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:56,079
Speaker 2: all starts with a family, the Verreaux family, a storied

206
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,160
Speaker 2: taxidermy family. That's the thing.

207
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a real thing. They formed a family group. No,

208
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: I think it's time for Casey on the case. Guys.

209
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 4: I mean, I appreciate being called in for these French pronunciations,

210
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,959
Speaker 4: but you really could have worked this one out yourself.

211
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 2: It's just the Maison vero.

212
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 1: Oh okay, and that concludes our episode of Casey on

213
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:21,520
Speaker 1: the Case.

214
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 2: I would have said the Mason veras. We are very

215
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 2: lucky that Casey is.

216
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,359
Speaker 5: I know, I know, if only he were an Englishman

217
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 5: and could tell us how to pronounce Kate's by. Kates

218
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,199
Speaker 5: By could have saved me an embarrassing email.

219
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 1: So you have to wonder also whether the researchers felt

220
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,760
Speaker 1: embarrassed when they discovered this. You mentioned the ct scan

221
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: and now we're diving into the history here, So Noel,

222
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about this strange family.

223
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've made fools of ourselves asking Casey to pronounce

224
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,319
Speaker 5: Mason Vera. So I'm gonna go ahead and just go

225
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 5: out on a limit. Really triumdamnitist with these French names. Casey,

226
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,319
Speaker 5: if you feel the need to chime in and school me,

227
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,319
Speaker 5: go right ahead. You can call your own Casey on

228
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,559
Speaker 5: the case segment, be Casey on Noles case. But the

229
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,040
Speaker 5: Verreau family, the Verreaux clan, was made up of Jules,

230
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,200
Speaker 5: Jean Baptiste Duard, and Alexis Verreaux, and they were all

231
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:24,959
Speaker 5: how to do Casey, I'll allow it, okay, case He

232
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,720
Speaker 5: didn't have to get on Nole's case, so we're good there.

233
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were all.

234
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 5: The sons of this really well renowned Parisian taxidermist by

235
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 5: the name of Jacques Philippe Verreau, who founded that house

236
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 5: of Verreau, the Maison Verreau.

237
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,199
Speaker 2: Taxidermy company, and it was a big deal.

238
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Established in eighteen oh three, this is the earliest

239
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,199
Speaker 1: known company that dealt in objects of natural history and

240
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,760
Speaker 1: the funded collection expeditions across the globe. So they would

241
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 1: send agents and send, you know, members of the Verreaux

242
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 1: family out to places that most of Western Europe was

243
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:11,880
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with to collect specimens, specimens, specimens.

244
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's going to get really creepy really quick.

245
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: So trigger warning. If you don't like the idea of

246
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 2: taxidermid humans, this is probably not the episode for you.

247
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,560
Speaker 1: This does also involve quite a lot of institutionalized racism.

248
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's a trigger warning for that too.

249
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 1: So so let's set the stage. As we said, they're

250
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,920
Speaker 1: traveling around the globe. In eighteen thirty, while traveling in

251
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 1: what we now today know as Botswana, Jules Verreau witnessed

252
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: the burial of a warrior.

253
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was about twenty seven years old presumably when

254
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 2: he died. I wasn't able to find a cause of death,

255
00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 2: but he did die around eighteen thirty, and the Roe

256
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 2: brothers attended his burial. And you see, you might say

257
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 2: to yourself, oh that's nice, you know, they're they're participating

258
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,440
Speaker 2: in the culture that they're trying to capitalize on.

259
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: But wait, yeah, because what happened later that night.

260
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 2: Basically they stole the body. They they grave dug.

261
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they functioned as resurrection men, you know.

262
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 5: Which is such a That was actually a trivia question

263
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 5: last night where we played trivia resurrection man. The question was, actually,

264
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 5: what is the less pleasant name for the old timey

265
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 5: practice of resurrection men that would be frowned upon today

266
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,400
Speaker 5: because resurrection men implies that you're it's like a profession,

267
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 5: You're like doing a service of some kind.

268
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 1: You're right. It sounds a lot better than grave.

269
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 2: Robberts or a professional defiler.

270
00:15:49,000 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So when Jules sneaks in the burial site,

271
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 1: he steals the skin, the skull, and several bones. He

272
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: intended to ship this body back to France. He prepared

273
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: and preserved it using the tricks of his trade, his craft,

274
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 1: and he augmented it with metal wire, wooden boards, and

275
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 1: he also stuffed it.

276
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a really grizzly quote from this fantastic New

277
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 5: York Times article called Africa Rejoices as a wandering soul

278
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 5: finds rest. That's sort of a prelude to a happy

279
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,119
Speaker 5: ending that we'll talk about a little bit. But apparently,

280
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 5: according to a guide, a taxidermy guide published in the

281
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 5: eighteen thirties, in order to properly preserve a dead human quote,

282
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 5: it is necessary to make a circular incision around the

283
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 5: fingertips and peel back the skin as if it were

284
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 5: a glove.

285
00:16:54,480 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 1: Right, And that is a genuine thing. This is a

286
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: very nuts and bolts, step by step process. And so

287
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 1: they bring this corpse, the stolen corpse, back to France,

288
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: to Paris specifically, and they also bring a lot of

289
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,200
Speaker 1: other stuff with them, like.

290
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 5: A metric crap ton of specimens from some estimates in

291
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 5: the neighborhood of you know, several thousand individual creatures.

292
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 1: Right right, mostly animals. Oh yeah, except for this one

293
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: stolen body. And when they brought it back, they didn't

294
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: immediately showcase this. This was just included in their package.

295
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 1: And actually, as we found, they left it in their

296
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 1: shop for a while. Isn't that correct? That is absolutely correct.

297
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,199
Speaker 5: Been they had it propped up as some kind of

298
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 5: macabre display. It fitted with feathers and you know, made

299
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 5: out to be this sort of example of this native

300
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,280
Speaker 5: kind of like a weird trophy or something.

301
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 2: It's really pretty.

302
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,159
Speaker 1: Vile, right, And there was a lot of othering that

303
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,680
Speaker 1: was very common in scientific circles of the day. So

304
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 1: to them, taking and preserving the corpse of a human

305
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 1: being was essentially no different from taking and preserving the

306
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 1: corpse of an exotic animal. The weird thing about this

307
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 1: is that it was pretty common, almost a status symbol

308
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 1: at the time, to have taxidermied animals.

309
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,440
Speaker 2: Of course, you've.

310
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 5: Seen like the hunting lodges of the rich and powerful

311
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 5: with you know, just dozens of zebra heads and elephant

312
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 5: heads and all this kind of I mean, I'm not

313
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 5: gonna like dang anybody's hobby or whatever, but there does

314
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 5: come a point where it feels a little gross to

315
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 5: me personally.

316
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 1: And inhuman a little bit.

317
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 5: I'm all about hunting for meat and feeding your family

318
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 5: and using every part of the animal that stuff. But

319
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,439
Speaker 5: when you see pictures of these CEOs, you know, holding

320
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 5: up elephant tusks and given the thumbs up that all

321
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 5: right now, I'm grandstand right, let me get off my soapbox.

322
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 2: But they were celebrated, these Vero brothers, right the climate

323
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 2: in France when they returned was one of jubilation. They

324
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: were welcome back with open arms. In fact, there was

325
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,439
Speaker 2: a report in La Constitutional from November fifteenth of eighteen

326
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,640
Speaker 2: thirty one that described their return in glowing detail, calling

327
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 2: them young compatriots of France, and you know, just really

328
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 2: a lot of patriotic fervor surrounding their return.

329
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 5: And the the La Constitutional article described their most shall

330
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,360
Speaker 5: we say, rare specimen as such, and this is hang

331
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 5: on to your hats, folks, but their greatest curiosity is

332
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 5: an individual of the nation of Bejuanas. This man preserved

333
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 5: by the means by which naturalists prepare their specimens and

334
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,159
Speaker 5: reconstitute their form and so to speak, their inert life.

335
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 5: He is of small stature, black of skin, his head

336
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 5: covered by short, wooly and curly hair, armed with arrows

337
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 5: and a lance. Clothes in antelope skin with a bag

338
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 5: made question mark. Yeah, but the bad question mark made

339
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,679
Speaker 5: of bush pig, full of small glass beads, seeds and

340
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 5: of small bones.

341
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: So with great acclaim, the Ureau outfit returns to Paris.

342
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 1: They display this body in their shop and eventually someone says,

343
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: you know what, I like this so much that I'm

344
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: going to buy it, And that was a Spanish nationalist

345
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: named Fransec Darter, and we don't have the exact amount

346
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: that he paid for this, but we do know we

347
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 1: do have a pretty solid timeline of what happened afterwards,

348
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: because this naturalist said, you know what, I'm not going

349
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: to take this and just set it up in my

350
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 1: living room. I'm going to take it to the global stage.

351
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: And that is how this poor unfortunate soul ended up

352
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: being displayed at the eighteen eighty eight Barcelona World Exhibition.

353
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: I say, Barthalona, you should Ibitha. Yes, yes, we were

354
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: making some jokes, but this is very, very troubling.

355
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, It's all I can do is not be completely

356
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 5: bummed out by this.

357
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 2: But again, there is a happy ending, wait for it.

358
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 2: We're getting there.

359
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: It's on the way. So Darter didn't just buy this

360
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: one corpse. He had an extensive natural history collection and

361
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 1: when he passed away, his collection was sent to a museum.

362
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 5: That's right, It was the Museum of Natural History in Baniols, Spain.

363
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: So it was on display from nineteen sixteen at this

364
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 1: museum to nineteen ninety seven, when a controversy finally arose.

365
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean one that had been brewing for some time.

366
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 5: I don't know if we mentioned this, but I read

367
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 5: somewhere that they actually painted the skin of this person

368
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 5: a darker shade of black.

369
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that is unfortunately absolutely true.

370
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 5: And it was it kind of became this sign of

371
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 5: you know, there's a history of Spanish people exploiting and

372
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 5: enslaving Africans.

373
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: I mean Western Europe of course, of course, of course.

374
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 5: But I'm just saying like this was a problematic thing

375
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 5: on many levels, on a humanitarian level, but also on

376
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 5: a ideological level, and what it represented and just was

377
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 5: not a good look. And yet this museum constantly fought

378
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 5: back against giving up this individual's remains to its home

379
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 5: country for a proper burial.

380
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's an excellent article on the BBC that traces this,

381
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: titled the Man Stuffed and Displayed like a wild animal,

382
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: And in this they detail how, after, Asnol said, incredibly

383
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: strong resistance from the museum, this body was finally returned.

384
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: And this didn't happen until what was October fifth, two

385
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: thousand or so, child And when this warrior was returned,

386
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: they were to lay in state for a day in

387
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: the capital, and ten thousand people visited to pay their

388
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: last respects. Interesting side note here, nol it was a

389
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: Christian burial.

390
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: Really, I didn't catch you that tell me.

391
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: More so, the priest who was conducting this said, in

392
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: the spirit of Jesus Christ, who also suffered, you know,

393
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: we're going to lay this man to rest finally, And

394
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: the Foreign minister at the time said quote, we are

395
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: prepared to forgive, but we must not forget the crimes

396
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: of the past so that we don't repeat them.

397
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: That is interesting.

398
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 5: How do you feel about that though, being a Christian burial,

399
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 5: given the background, and given the brutal nature of this

400
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 5: uprooting of this person's remains, and then to ultimately have

401
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 5: their bare it'll be something completely unrelated to what they

402
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 5: likely believed in their in life.

403
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to ask ourselves these questions. You know,

404
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: was that in part a political play by the government

405
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: of the time. Was that a true, sincere effort, And

406
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: you know, if it was, if it was a true

407
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: and sincere and genuine effort to pay respects, then I'm

408
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: all for it. Although it is riddled with problems. And

409
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: here's what happened though, So you may have thought that

410
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: we already got to the good ending the light at

411
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel.

412
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought we had did You got a twist?

413
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: You got a Shimolean twist. There's a little bit shamala

414
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 2: amnon twist.

415
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: There's a little bit, yeah, I'm talking about. Yeah, there's

416
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of an Act three twist here. After

417
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: the burial and after laden state, the grave was neglected

418
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: for several years and the field that was around it

419
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: was being used as a football pitch. I'm sorry, come again,

420
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: as people were playing football. Oh okay, gotcha, football pitch.

421
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: And the Botswanan government later thankfully went back and restored

422
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: the site and enhanced it. They built a visitors center

423
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: and explanatory signs. As of now, it is still not

424
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: known what this man's name was, exactly where he came from,

425
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: or what his life was like.

426
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and to get back to what started the story

427
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 5: with the diorama of the drama Dairy right in the

428
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 5: Carnegie Museum.

429
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: The diorama Drama.

430
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, this all comes.

431
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 5: Back to something that you mentioned been an interesting angle,

432
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 5: which is museum ethics. There are still struggles between the

433
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 5: governments of the places of origin of many artifacts and

434
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 5: the museums that hold them in their collections, and it's

435
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 5: not cut and dry. It's not always like a matter

436
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 5: of just saying, hey, we should have that in our

437
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 5: country instead, you know, mister Carnegie or whatever.

438
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 2: You know. But with the remains, that is probably a

439
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: little more cut and dry. And you know, the museum

440
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 2: would certainly have been willing to return that skull if

441
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: they knew where to send it. But that's the rub right, right,

442
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: that's the problem. That's the heart of the matter, or

443
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: should we say the skull of the matter. Other than

444
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 2: knowing that this diorama was built by Edward Vrow in

445
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: the mid eighteen hundreds, we don't know the origin of

446
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: the skull. We don't know who it came from. We

447
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: don't know where they lived. We know very very little

448
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: about them. I tell you one thing we do know

449
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: is those of a rose were not cool. Oh creepy, creepy.

450
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 2: Have you seen the movie Taxidermia, Ben?

451
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: I have not. Should I check it out?

452
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: I think you should. It's really it's quite disturbing. It's

453
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: a have you seen it, Casey.

454
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: It's like a Hungarian movie.

455
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 2: It's a Hungarian movie. There's one character who shoots flames

456
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: out of his penis and different you know, odd characters.

457
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: Over time, it traces the lineage of this family, and

458
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 2: one of them becomes a taxidermist. And I'm gonna spoiler

459
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: alert real quick. See it. This isn't really it doesn't

460
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 2: really matter. It's more just a tableaux.

461
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 5: The guy builds a machine that allows him to taxidermy himself.

462
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: Finally, Yeah, this is fiction, right, I established this, folks.

463
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: What gave it away? Was it the flames out of them?

464
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, It's a It's a wild and

465
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: fascinating world in which we live.

466
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: So check out taxidermy if you want to.

467
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 5: You know, if this got wet your appetite for creepy things,

468
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 5: it's it's worth a look.

469
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: It's worth a look. And most importantly, this controversy continues

470
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: to date and museums across the planet. We're going to

471
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: wrap it up, we hope to wan't oh so close.

472
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: Nooll, it's time, gentlemen.

473
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: What time is it.

474
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 1: For the coolist?

475
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 5: Of course, the mischievous, mirthful, and that is the Quista.

476
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, you were you were in high spirits

477
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: stead I've.

478
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 4: Won so many times I do not freaking know what

479
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 4: to do.

480
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yes, yes, Quist So this is the This

481
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 6: is the segment where our long standing nemesis of the show,

482
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 6: the Quist, Jonathan Strickland, comes to test our knowledge of

483
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 6: real versus fake history?

484
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: Are they the same person? Jonathan Strickland and the Quist

485
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: is a sort of a Superman Clark can It's a

486
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: ven diagram that has a lot of overlap. I got you, okay,

487
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 2: good enough, good to know who to hate.

488
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 4: It's just well, Noel, it's clear you've been sending me

489
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 4: little messages on our messaging system the entire day, and

490
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 4: it was very clear that I need to I need

491
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 4: to maybe ease off a bit, is what. That's the

492
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: message you're getting now?

493
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: This is news to me. What are you doing? Man?

494
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: I just you know, I just uh, I just told him.

495
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 4: It just things like, hey, you got a nice podcast

496
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 4: over there. It sure would be a shame if someone.

497
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: I don't know set fire to it something like that.

498
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, yeah, no, are you okay? Yeah?

499
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 5: I'm just really fed up with this Quiztor segment, but

500
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 5: people seem to like it, so I guess we have

501
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 5: to keep doing it forever.

502
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 4: Now. For those who do not know what the heck

503
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 4: is happening, I will explain so I come on the

504
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 4: show and has been alluded to earlier. I present a scenario.

505
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 4: The gentlemen here have three minutes to determine whether or

506
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: not said scenario represents an actual historical fact or if

507
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: I made's it up seas. I also create an arbitrary

508
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: rule that you have to follow if you wish to

509
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 4: ask any questions of yours truly the quizt this case,

510
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 4: because we're talking about dead people, your rule is going

511
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: to be a little little Tricksye. Before you could ask

512
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 4: a question, you must quote at least some portion of

513
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: the wonderful, wonderful song dead Man's Party by Oingo Boingo.

514
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 2: You could ask for more.

515
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 4: There you go, perfect, Danny Eefman vehicle Oingo Boingo.

516
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: Can I quote the horn part?

517
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely?

518
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 4: You can, absolutely, Yeah, we can do the whole thing.

519
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: You know what.

520
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.

521
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 4: We're just throwing the segment out. We're just gonna jam

522
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 4: get out.

523
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: Oh no, we've already set it up, so lay.

524
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: It, lay it on us. And also I'm noticing that

525
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: your accents are a bit more dynamic today. You have

526
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: a lot of pep.

527
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 4: I drink like ten five hour energy drinks. Because I

528
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 4: got a lot of stuff coming up.

529
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: You're fifty hours deep.

530
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 4: That's right, all right, I can see next week.

531
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 2: Man.

532
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: Well, let's hope we can see through your deception, right

533
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: nol oh, man, I hope.

534
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 4: So here's your scenario. You will start the timer when

535
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 4: I give you the signal, which will be start the

536
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 4: timer here.

537
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: It is good good.

538
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: Italian artist Giovanni Balducci in the early seventeenth century got

539
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 4: a peculiar commission. He was hired to paint the portraits

540
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: of the upper crust of Naples. But these were very

541
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 4: special portraits, for they were missing important feature the subject's heads. See.

542
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 4: He was painting these portraits in the catacombs of San Guadioso,

543
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 4: where the decapitated heads of deceased hoity toitis were placed

544
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: in alcoves in the walls. Balducci painted frescoes of rich

545
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: people in their finery around these heads, which I must

546
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 4: stress still had flesh on them. Oh, and he did

547
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 4: it for free, because he considered it an honor. A

548
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: start the timer.

549
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: Don't run away, it's only me, yes, mister belin. Okay,

550
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: so is this still on display? Like? Could people still

551
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: go see it?

552
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 4: For a long time? It was not on display. But

553
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 4: in two thousand and six, some people who were trying

554
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 4: to attract more visitors to this particular part of Naples

555
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 4: got together and commissioned an entire fundraising event, and now

556
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 4: it is in fact open for you to tour.

557
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 5: So, Ben, do you picture this as being sort of

558
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 5: like those catacombs and pro or like the ostuary?

559
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's like a church made of bones and

560
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Obviously there's no more flesh.

561
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: That's the part that throws at me, sticking with me,

562
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: because flesh decomposed. Unless it's treated and preserved, flesh will

563
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: decompose or desiccate at some point.

564
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: I feel it.

565
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 4: Only necessary to say that when I said still had

566
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: flesh upon them, I meant at the time he was

567
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: painting the first.

568
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, but that's gross. He's that's gonna smell.

569
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: That's not gonna be fun painting around decomposing heads.

570
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: It was a different time, no old people were used

571
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: to different smells.

572
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm just I'm all bugaboo.

573
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: You could go either way. Yeah, do you have a question?

574
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: Not really, I don't want to speak to this man.

575
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: All right, I'm all dressed up with nowhere to go.

576
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 4: Yes, mister Bolin.

577
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: So two thousand and six, he said, is when this

578
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: went back on display. Has this artist done any other

579
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: work that we would be familiar with?

580
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 4: Not recently.

581
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 7: He's been dead for four hundred years. Come on, man,

582
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 7: Yes he's done. He's done other works. He was a

583
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 7: student of a Sorry Va Sorry, being a sixteenth century

584
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 7: Italian artist, mostly known for his biographies of other Italian artists.

585
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 7: But he has done other works. Most of them were

586
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 7: be considered uninspired.

587
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 4: You might say, don't be afraid.

588
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: Yes, no, I just wanted to do it. I don't

589
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: really have anything that's fair. All right, well I'm gonna

590
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: say false.

591
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: I am feeling true. You want to rochambeos? Okay, here

592
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: we go one, two, three?

593
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: Shoot? Oh now I want to go with yours?

594
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, So no wins. But he made the decision

595
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 4: to go with Ben's decision, which was the opposite of his.

596
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 4: What was your decision.

597
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: Again, Ben, we're locking it in?

598
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, true, you have lucked in else God, I.

599
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: Know, Shelby, that's my again.

600
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 5: So this was that was I'm pretty from my seat

601
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 5: and did it dance?

602
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure you spiked the mic on that one buddy,

603
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 4: all right. So yes, in fact this is true. The

604
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 4: catacombs were closed to the public until two thousand and six.

605
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 4: These days there are not even skulls in those alcoves.

606
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: They have crumbled to dust. Now they're just frescoes with

607
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 4: around a hole essentially where the head would be. But

608
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 4: at one point there were the actual recently deceased heads

609
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 4: of these rich people, including people who were described as princesses,

610
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 4: in those walls. It is under the basilica of Santa

611
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 4: Maria della Sanita. If you are ever in Naples, that

612
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 4: is the one you go to, and there are about

613
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 4: twenty frescoes in total.

614
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 5: So he painted these frescoes for free, surrounded by rotting,

615
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 5: decapitated heads, because it was an honor.

616
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: Yes, he thought, because this was this was supposed to

617
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 4: be a celebration of a person. The head was supposed

618
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 4: to be the center of the person's being, and that

619
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 4: he was there to to glorify that. That it was

620
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 4: such a great honor. He refused the fee that the

621
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,959
Speaker 4: church tried to pay him in return for his work.

622
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: He said, no, no, no, I do this for them,

623
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 4: And so he refused payment, just.

624
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: Like You're out here doing this segment.

625
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 4: And I don't get paid for it.

626
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: You're exactly you're doing God's work.

627
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: You're you're paid at a shod and Floyd and Spite.

628
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 4: Came up short this one.

629
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, man, you can't win them all.

630
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 4: I mean you you said today you literally won, you

631
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 4: literally won Rochambeau and you went with the other, you know,

632
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 4: because it was my gut.

633
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: I may have won the Roe Shambau, but my gut

634
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: said Ben was right, and.

635
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: You're getting a lot better at Rock Paper Sis right,

636
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: So not fair, man.

637
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 2: I'm starting to like this segment again.

638
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: This has been an emotional roller coaster on many counts. Whizzard,

639
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: thank you, I am required to say for coming onto

640
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 1: the show.

641
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: Pretty sure, I'm still ahead by one, you know what,

642
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 4: what's a.

643
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: Couple numbers between friends? So I have a feeling that

644
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that Jonathan and Noel are a

645
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: bit more competitive than I am. So please, I.

646
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: Really did leap out of my seat and do a

647
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: hammer dancer.

648
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 4: And that really is absolutely true.

649
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we may have won the battle, we have

650
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: not won the war.

651
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 2: The war still rages.

652
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: The war still rages, and something tells me that something

653
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: probably being super producer Casey pegrim that this is not

654
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: the last we've seen of the quister.

655
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm cool with that. I've got my dignity back. Now.

656
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: How about you, Ben, You never really lost it. You

657
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: weren't as invested in this as I was.

658
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm invested, but it's just because I

659
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: find so many things fascinating. I look at it as

660
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: a learning experience.

661
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 4: Oh excuse me, guys, that's that's my chauffeur, he says,

662
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 4: this room for maybe just.

663
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: One more.

664
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Well flat. And on that note, we'd like to thank

665
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, we'd like to thank Casey Pegrin, we'd like

666
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: to thank Alex Williams, who composed this track.

667
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: And most importantly, we'd like to thank you Ben.

668
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: Oh no, thank thank you, Nolan.

669
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 2: You're welcome.

670
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: The pleasure was.

671
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: More, it's shared, it's mutual pleasure, all right.

672
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: Well, before this bromance goes off the rails, we.

673
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 4: Are really uncomfortable.

674
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: Well it's too bad. It's too bad man. You chose

675
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: to sit in the middle.

676
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 2: That's true.

677
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: So we're gonna head out. Tune in next time when

678
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: we explore the strange story of a flying aircraft carrier.

679
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 5: It's sort of a sequel, kind of sort of Zeppelin too,

680
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 5: the Zeppelining Electric Zeppel.

681
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: I love it. And you know, Ben, you're you're quite

682
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: fond of airships. I know you're about this one.

683
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I am thrilled, my friend. Why you might ask

684
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: not to tune in and find out. In the meantime,

685
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.

686
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: How's your vision board coming, dude?

687
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: It's going really well.

688
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

689
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: I had a moment where I just decided to take

690
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: off the Christopher Walking pictures.

691
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 5: I have a whole section online it's nothing but Christopher

692
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 5: walkin pictures, but with Steve Bushemi's eyes. I know you

693
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 5: keep texting me, you know, but hey, if you don't

694
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 5: want to do any of that stuff, you can just

695
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 5: write us an email directly. We're ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com.

696
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 5: And yeah, thanks to you already, thank Ben the debate

697
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 5: and switch there. But thanks to you folks for tuning

698
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 5: in joining us for another episode of ridiculous history.

699
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.

700
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 5: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

701
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 5: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,