Speaker 1: Native LAMPID is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with
Speaker 1: Resent Choice Media. Welcome home, y'all, This is episode one
Speaker 1: hundred and one of Native LAMPI, where we give you
Speaker 1: our breakdown of all things politics and culture.
Speaker 2: We are your hosts. Tiffany Cross is right over here.
Speaker 1: I just pulled to Andrew Angela Rai, Andrew Gillim And
Speaker 1: speaking of Andrew, we have Andrew Jr. Who's joined us.
Speaker 1: His name is Bacari Sellars. What's going on, y'all?
Speaker 2: I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Welcome Home, Welcome Home?
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, Well we have a pack show. I would
Speaker 1: love to know what we're getting into. But before we
Speaker 1: do that, I just want to tell y'all. I know
Speaker 1: some of you all have been waiting for the Culture
Speaker 1: Con episode. We haven't forgot. We just tighten it up,
Speaker 1: making sure it's perfect. It's gonna be a little bit longer,
Speaker 1: but it is coming very very soon, So please keep
Speaker 1: an eye out for the Culture Con live show. It
Speaker 1: is our last hurrah without Bacari. So it's a very
Speaker 1: very good show. So now that we got cocky Charles
Speaker 1: with us, you know, it's a little tough every now
Speaker 1: and then, but we're all good. I also want to
Speaker 1: let you all know, if you didn't catch it, we
Speaker 1: have an episode with Jennae Nelson, who is tremendous lawyer,
Speaker 1: the president of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, who also
Speaker 1: argued the oral arguments at the Supreme Court of the
Speaker 1: United States on the Kyli case in Louisiana. So she
Speaker 1: joins us live on an episode that's already been shot,
Speaker 1: and we hope that you'll check that out as well. So, anyway, y'all,
Speaker 1: what are we getting into today?
Speaker 2: Everybody at once.
Speaker 4: You know, we've been able to caution you so many
Speaker 4: times about cross talk. I'm like, I ain't that, I
Speaker 4: ain't doing it. It was hers if I could just
Speaker 4: give a disclaimer and I apologize to our viewers for
Speaker 4: my congestion and whatnot. But in feeling a bit under
Speaker 4: the weather, I know, Angela, you've probably passed it off
Speaker 4: to me. But there's still active. There's there's a lot,
Speaker 4: there's a lot going on. I think one of the things,
Speaker 4: you know, we owe it to our listening fan to
Speaker 4: tune in on, is this what's happening with Letitia James
Speaker 4: at the attorney in New York. But also how this
Speaker 4: is sending signals, I think across the country to either break,
Speaker 4: bend or bow or resist this administration. Powerful statements that
Speaker 4: she made here.
Speaker 1: At the top of the show absolutely tip you know,
Speaker 1: oh it sounds like okay, other Tiffany, Hey, Bacar, go ahead.
Speaker 3: I'm god I am over here treading on this then
Speaker 3: ice because Angela gave me my daily dose of humbling
Speaker 3: as we go.
Speaker 4: Through this, and uh, is there only one thank you?
Speaker 5: Is that?
Speaker 3: The yeah point point five emails? If we're being specific,
Speaker 3: not not too much. I do want to I know
Speaker 3: I'll probably get to this in my call to action,
Speaker 3: So I'm jumping the hoop a little bit. But I
Speaker 3: would be remiss if I didn't give a special shout
Speaker 3: out to DiAngelo and his family. Our condolences go out
Speaker 3: in particularly because there's a young man who lost his
Speaker 3: mother and father in the span of a year. Angie Stone,
Speaker 3: as we know, passed away earlier this year after a
Speaker 3: horrific car crash, and DiAngelo was just, you know, part
Speaker 3: of our culture and innate part of our culture growing up.
Speaker 3: But one of the things I did want to highlight
Speaker 3: is I was going through it and earlier this year
Speaker 3: we lost Heer Gotti from fifty four from diabetes. We
Speaker 3: lost DJ mister C. We lost Rico Wade early in
Speaker 3: his life. As we go through this, we realize that
Speaker 3: we've had many people from Magoo at age fifty, DMX
Speaker 3: age fifty, Bis, Marquis fifty seven, Coolio, just Shy of sixty,
Speaker 3: heavy d who collapsed outside of his home at the
Speaker 3: age of forty four. And so I think that maybe
Speaker 3: that's a mini pot or something else that me and
Speaker 3: Andrew talk about on the side. But all love goes
Speaker 3: out to Angie Stone, uh DiAngelo endonnesses and particularly to
Speaker 3: their son. They leave here without a mother and a father.
Speaker 1: Thank you Bacari for that you are he still knew,
Speaker 1: so he has no idea. This part is rapid, but
Speaker 1: just know it was because he was trying to be empathetic.
Speaker 1: Uh Tip, I want to come to you for your
Speaker 1: topics for this.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'll be brief.
Speaker 7: I'm going to get into I feel like there's an
Speaker 7: anti intellectual.
Speaker 6: This Hayes and.
Speaker 4: McCary welcome, brother, welcome.
Speaker 7: But what I want to get into is this anti
Speaker 7: intellectual movement that I think is ravaging the Black community.
Speaker 7: I think this week a lot of us saw the
Speaker 7: clip of Mark Lamont Hill I'm on the Joe Budden Podcast,
Speaker 7: and if you didn't, we'll certainly be playing it here.
Speaker 7: But beyond just this viral moment, I want us to
Speaker 7: get into the dying and the death of black intellectualism
Speaker 7: right now.
Speaker 6: So looking forward to get into that.
Speaker 2: My co host, well, thank you, Tip.
Speaker 1: I just want to throw in to the what's clearly
Speaker 1: become a remy mock on a day it's a theme.
Speaker 2: Are you dumb?
Speaker 1: Because we're gonna get into those text messages from those
Speaker 1: young Republicans And also, are you dumb? Gavin Newsom? What's
Speaker 1: up with this reparations bill?
Speaker 4: Homie?
Speaker 2: What you got against us?
Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about why he thinks proposition two
Speaker 1: nine still expands into everything black, and uh, maybe he
Speaker 1: thinks it's a pathway to the White House. We'll make
Speaker 1: sure it's not. So anyway, welcome home, y'all. Were gonna
Speaker 1: jump into this show. Okay, So, but car you dropped
Speaker 1: this topic in our chat. So do you want to
Speaker 1: take us into what these silly Republicans we're talking about
Speaker 1: on this chat?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I think that we in this country
Speaker 3: have never really dealt with the issue of race. And
Speaker 3: I think what you're seeing in these leaked chats from
Speaker 3: young Republicans is that we should not look at them
Speaker 3: as leaders of the future for the Republican Party. We
Speaker 3: should look at them as leaders of right now. And
Speaker 3: I think that the racism that is the underbelly of
Speaker 3: the Republican Party shown through in those chats. But the
Speaker 3: misogyny s took out, the anti semitism. It was very poignant.
Speaker 3: And then, I mean, I don't like to necessarily do this,
Speaker 3: but if you were to look at many of the
Speaker 3: comments these guys made juxtaposed against how these guys look,
Speaker 3: they look like the comments they made, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: I mean, so there was nothing attractive about them, and
Speaker 3: there was nothing attractive about the words that came out
Speaker 3: of their mouth. However, these are people that assume leadership,
Speaker 3: and when you look at leaders right now, you know
Speaker 3: you have people who are saying, let's not let's not
Speaker 3: talk about this at all. This isn't an issue, this
Speaker 3: is childhood discretion whatever. Whereas Democrats, whenever this has happened,
Speaker 3: we're the first ones to rush through and say people
Speaker 3: should not say X, Y Z. And I think The
Speaker 3: best example is we are moral compass is one that No,
Speaker 3: I'm not telling Jay Jones to get out of the race,
Speaker 3: but I'm like Jay Jones, like, what were you thinking
Speaker 3: in those text messages? You cannot espouse those things, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Let voters determine whether or not they vote for you,
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But Jay, you got
Speaker 3: to have more discretion in that. You don't see the
Speaker 3: same balance on the Republican side when you have that
Speaker 3: racism and you have that misogyny, et cetera.
Speaker 1: And me, let me just I was gonna be yeah,
Speaker 1: I was going to back us into what happened, you know,
Speaker 1: for we play inside baseball in here sometimes and what
Speaker 1: we what we want to do is first make sure
Speaker 1: y'all understand what happened. So as young Republican leaders from
Speaker 1: all over the country, some of them in elected office,
Speaker 1: who had a chat thread. Many of us have chat threads,
Speaker 1: but they had a chat thread on Telegram and all
Speaker 1: all of their business was telegrammed for the world to see.
Speaker 1: In a political article that dropped yesterday, I just want
Speaker 1: to add something.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry night yesterday.
Speaker 1: This week tif okay, when we recorded yesterday, so we
Speaker 1: had this political article drop. But here's what I think
Speaker 1: is important. Since then, there's been an update in y'all's
Speaker 1: Vice president jd Vance said since Bacari brought it up,
Speaker 1: that Jay Jones texts were far worse than these Republican texts.
Speaker 1: These young Republicans are calling saying that I love Hitler,
Speaker 1: calling black people monkeys, talking about watermelon and fried chicken,
Speaker 1: using the N word, using all kinds of racial slurs,
Speaker 1: and talking about turning on gas chambers. Since then, jd
Speaker 1: Vance has said that the Young Republicans chat pales in
Speaker 1: comparison to Jane Jay Jones's text.
Speaker 6: Can I just want to jump in? So yes, Angela.
Speaker 7: You referenced that this was a story broken by reporting
Speaker 7: from Politico off their telegram chats. Just so folks know,
Speaker 7: the text messages were spanning more than seven months of correspondence,
Speaker 7: and among the people in the chat were young Republican
Speaker 7: leaders in New York, Kansas, Arizona, and Vermont. Some of
Speaker 7: the texts they referred to black people as monkeys, the
Speaker 7: watermelon people. They mused about their political putting, their political
Speaker 7: opponents and opponents in gas chambers. And some of the
Speaker 7: There were twenty nine hundred pages of the chats and
Speaker 7: they were shared among millennial and gen Z repeaters Republicans
Speaker 7: forgive me. And this was between January and August, and
Speaker 7: it chronicles a campaign to seize control of the Republican
Speaker 7: Party to be hardliners on the Trump agenda.
Speaker 6: So when you think about what that means.
Speaker 7: Roger Stone made a comment about one of the people's
Speaker 7: Peter Gunta I think is his name, and he was saying, well,
Speaker 7: this is not the Peter I know. And I just
Speaker 7: find it so incredibly arrogant when people say that about things,
Speaker 7: as though your experience centers what happens with this person.
Speaker 7: I would just further say that anyone who is surprised
Speaker 7: by these texts has not been paying attention to what
Speaker 7: has happened in the Republican Party. You guys have been
Speaker 7: referencing Jay Jones. If you can just share with our
Speaker 7: viewers who that is, what he's running for and the
Speaker 7: depths behind him.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's running for attorney general in Virginia. I think
Speaker 1: we got a delay with Bakari. Sorry, b I think
Speaker 1: you were just about to start talking.
Speaker 3: No, I don't know if I have a delay or not.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm just bringing all types of hiccups to
Speaker 3: the show. But they'll smooth out. And that's why I'm platinum.
Speaker 3: That's why they called me platinum ratings. Shit just work out.
Speaker 3: That's what happens when you blessed. It just work out.
Speaker 2: But I know you better speed up your WiFi.
Speaker 3: J Jones is running for Attorney General of the Great
Speaker 3: State Commonwealth of Virginia. J Jones he had some comments,
Speaker 3: sharing some comments with a Republican colleague of his who
Speaker 3: leaked those to the press. In those comments, Jay Jones
Speaker 3: talked about UH some of the thoughts he had in
Speaker 3: his head about using bullets and weapons and violence against
Speaker 3: his peers and colleagues. He was then told to stop,
Speaker 3: and then he called his colleague and kind of reiterated
Speaker 3: some of the same views he had about wanting to
Speaker 3: UH to go down the path of political political violence.
Speaker 3: And it is now it's caught fire. Stephen Miller talks
Speaker 3: about it, Jadie Vance has talked about it. Everyone has
Speaker 3: talked about it. Because as we know, and I hope
Speaker 3: our viewers know, the most one of the most important
Speaker 3: races we have coming up extremely soon is the race
Speaker 3: in Virginia for not only governor but the entire state
Speaker 3: lieutenant governor and attorney general as well. And Jay is
Speaker 3: somebody I know. Jay's a young black attorney, great guy,
Speaker 3: and I think that even when we make mistakes, I
Speaker 3: think Democrats sometimes are oftentimes are are reluctant to say, like,
Speaker 3: what the were you doing? But this is a what
Speaker 3: the were you doing? Moment?
Speaker 4: Well, you know what I don't get is what kind
Speaker 4: of for Jay may have felt with his Republican colleague
Speaker 4: to exchange those kinds of messages in the first place.
Speaker 4: And by the way, I don't want to both sides
Speaker 4: this thing. I know they're bringing this up in the
Speaker 4: context of what the California kids, young Republicans, whatever it is. Tiffany,
Speaker 4: you had a term that you didn't mean to call them,
Speaker 4: but it was. It was. It was interesting and now
Speaker 4: I lose thought on it, but it was. I liked it.
Speaker 3: It seemed consulting.
Speaker 4: But in essence, you know, what these young people did
Speaker 4: is not excusable. It's certainly treads along a pattern of thinking,
Speaker 4: probably of being a way in which they see the world,
Speaker 4: and they make no apologies about expressing themselves that way.
Speaker 4: Certainly not over a six seven month span of time,
Speaker 4: where there's no contradiction, there's only a doubling down and
Speaker 4: the line of thinking, in the line of the way
Speaker 4: in which they perceive and the way in which they
Speaker 4: talk about folks of color, black folks and their political opponents.
Speaker 4: Jay obviously elected official who in my opinion, really ought
Speaker 4: to know better and certainly should be questioning whether or
Speaker 4: not he should have ever been in a conversation one
Speaker 4: like this, but two with the Republican colleague that he
Speaker 4: thought was what gonna have his back one day, when
Speaker 4: these folks have shown us time and time again that
Speaker 4: that's not who they are. So I'm a little baffled
Speaker 4: on that one, and I would love a more complete
Speaker 4: and exhaustive explanation about what happened. But but I think
Speaker 4: on the young Republicans part of this thing for a
Speaker 4: long time, y'all, a lot of us operated by the
Speaker 4: belief that with time and with progress, that party produces
Speaker 4: a more enlightened person, It produces a person who is
Speaker 4: more reflective of their time, if you will, And I
Speaker 4: just think that we've been shown time and time again.
Speaker 4: If it isn't for the Dylan roofs of the world,
Speaker 4: or the young white male extremists who are right now,
Speaker 4: you know, frankly the most dangerous thing walking around in America.
Speaker 4: And when they make us the ire of their impact,
Speaker 4: really bad stuff happens in our community. So I'm disabolved
Speaker 4: myself of the belief that over time we'll get people
Speaker 4: who are more thoughtful and who reflect a more diverse
Speaker 4: world around them, because exactly what I think we're getting
Speaker 4: our throwback to, you know, the nineteen forties, fifties, sixties.
Speaker 3: These folks are.
Speaker 4: Trying to they're trying to go further back in the
Speaker 4: history of this country and make it our future. Rather
Speaker 4: than representing a more how would you say, multi racial
Speaker 4: demographic society. They're resisting it at every single turn. And
Speaker 4: I just think we ought to disavow ourselves the notion
Speaker 4: that with age and with maturity and with the changing
Speaker 4: of ages and time, that we're going that it's going
Speaker 4: to produce a better human On the other side, it.
Speaker 2: Is as better. It's really not.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is the part, Like we
Speaker 1: keep talking about we're going back in time. I think
Speaker 1: that it is the past president, it is the future
Speaker 1: until they decide to turn over a new leaf. You
Speaker 1: know what's fascinating to me is, you know, I have
Speaker 1: again some of these private chats, especially with my girls,
Speaker 1: and we also have lamented what happens if our chats
Speaker 1: are ever leaked. It's not because we calling people racist names.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, what is going on. We're talking
Speaker 1: about interpersonal conflict, you know, breakups or how to navigate finances,
Speaker 1: but we're not talking about this. So I think what
Speaker 1: is baffling to me is that one it is not
Speaker 1: a bigger story. Two that there are folks who would say, oh,
Speaker 1: they just had a lapse in judgment and give and
Speaker 1: even call them young people. These are grown men. These
Speaker 1: are grown men who are grown enough to hold leadership
Speaker 1: position in the Republican Party. And here's the part that's said,
Speaker 1: I'm sure y'all can align with this. It would be
Speaker 1: one thing if what they put in text did not
Speaker 1: translate into policy. And on that right to the point
Speaker 1: where you know, again, the more progressive side of the country,
Speaker 1: the best coast I like to call it, has decided
Speaker 1: that a state of emergency is necessary right in La
Speaker 1: County given the number of ice raids that are taking
Speaker 1: place that is just one area where we see these
Speaker 1: policies being so detrimental, the racist ideology, the white supremacy
Speaker 1: behind these policies being what is guiding how they interface
Speaker 1: with other Americans and other human beings. Okay, that's fine,
Speaker 1: we can move on. There is there a clip.
Speaker 6: I don't not one, but the way you said about
Speaker 6: I was like, oh, there must be.
Speaker 1: Sound that I'm watching them. No, I was going into
Speaker 1: ICE rays. It is, uh, it is. It is a
Speaker 1: clear indication of how they legislative.
Speaker 2: We want to move over to no.
Speaker 6: No, no, let's know that that's on the sea loot.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think you're right, hundred percent right, Angela. And you know,
Speaker 7: I think we have to start questioning how do we
Speaker 7: even know that these are ICE agents and quotations snatching
Speaker 7: people off the street. There's already been consistent reporting from
Speaker 7: numerous outlets, including CNN, of verified incidents with people impersonating
Speaker 7: ICE agents. How do we even know that these people
Speaker 7: are officially government sanctioned? How do we know these aren't
Speaker 7: proud boys just out here doing some sort of mercenary
Speaker 7: work for this administration. It's just getting to the point
Speaker 7: where it's so dangerous and a conversation I had this weekend.
Speaker 7: I told you guys last week that I was off
Speaker 7: to Michael Harriet's for his Standers party. I missed you
Speaker 7: guys there. You all were busy this weekend. But we
Speaker 7: talked about what is the point? Was the question I asked,
Speaker 7: is what is the point when I say, what am
Speaker 7: I going to regret six months from now? When they
Speaker 7: indicted to James, Was that the day that I should
Speaker 7: have said, you know what, I got to get the
Speaker 7: fuck out of here. When they started snatch people off
Speaker 7: the streets and we normalized it, was that the day
Speaker 7: that I should have said, time to get my passport
Speaker 7: and gives guy to here. And as we see this
Speaker 7: happening increasingly and they're flooding the zone with chaos, I
Speaker 7: fear that people are tuning out or normalizing chaos to
Speaker 7: where chaos seems normal and quiet seems eerie. And I
Speaker 7: just don't know what it's going to take. California is
Speaker 7: on the front line, but we see what this's happening
Speaker 7: in Chicago is coming to Portland, like authoritarianism is coming
Speaker 7: soon to a city near you.
Speaker 6: And what will we do when that shows up? And
Speaker 6: I don't and I don't have a solution for that.
Speaker 7: I don't have advice for people, but it is increasingly
Speaker 7: frightening as I see what's happening across the country, and
Speaker 7: I am giving more serious consideration every day to the
Speaker 7: internal argument do we fight or do we flee?
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, yeah, please book Ard, no please.
Speaker 8: No, no, no.
Speaker 3: And my question is just it centers around helping me
Speaker 3: articulate my thoughts, whether or not I'm communicating on CNN,
Speaker 3: or whether or not I am with Tremaine, my barber,
Speaker 3: who tightened me up. As you'll see, I'm looking fresh
Speaker 3: for the show.
Speaker 2: I trying to clean up very lovely.
Speaker 6: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: For the compliment. But how do we connect? Because people
Speaker 3: people will say, what is the connection? And I think
Speaker 3: we take this connection for granted, but how do you
Speaker 3: connect the text messages, text messages we saw and we
Speaker 3: talked about, how do you connect that incendiary, hyper ignorant
Speaker 3: racism and misogyny and the policy that we're seeing. Because
Speaker 3: a lot of people I talk to are just missing
Speaker 3: that connection. They don't understand how you get from the
Speaker 3: or they just say that there is no connection. But
Speaker 3: how you get from these young Republicans who are manifesting
Speaker 3: themselves into leadership and their racism dictating policy. How can
Speaker 3: we communicate that better? How can I communicate that better?
Speaker 3: Connecting A to B. Does that make sense?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that you have to do a
Speaker 4: better job, because I think you are one of our
Speaker 4: better communicators on television. But I think people have to
Speaker 4: look no further than you take these text messages from
Speaker 4: these Republicans over here and you connect it directly to
Speaker 4: Project twenty twenty five. The reason they can throw, the
Speaker 4: reason they can dismiss a quarter million black women off
Speaker 4: the job and have no remorse, have no care concern
Speaker 4: in the world for how those folks are going to
Speaker 4: provide for themselves, their children, their grandchildren, or whomever it
Speaker 4: is that they take responsibility for them, take responsibility for themselves.
Speaker 4: They don't have to see the humanity in those folks
Speaker 4: because they never ever considered it in the first place.
Speaker 4: They if you have compared a woman a human to
Speaker 4: a monkey, right, swinging from trees eating bananas, And that's
Speaker 4: not to insult the monkey, right, This is outside of that.
Speaker 4: This is if you consider them non human. They care not,
Speaker 4: they feel not, They have no needs nothing that resembles
Speaker 4: what you would want for your family or what you
Speaker 4: need for your family, then it's easy to castigate them.
Speaker 4: When I listen to Stephen Miller and the way in
Speaker 4: which he talks about the opposition, you would almost think
Speaker 4: one you would never conclude that this is a human
Speaker 4: opposition like that. There's no way that these folks live,
Speaker 4: breathe draw air, you know, oxygen, survive off of the
Speaker 4: you know the same thing, right, And in his mind's eye,
Speaker 4: I have to believe that he makes no likeness between
Speaker 4: him and the people who he opposes. You are nothing,
Speaker 4: you will be nothing. You are you know you're not
Speaker 4: worth this that and the third, how can you muster
Speaker 4: that kind of animis towards your fellow man or woman. Well,
Speaker 4: the only way you can muster that kind of animists
Speaker 4: towards somebody like that is one if you don't see
Speaker 4: them as equal to you. Right, they are of no
Speaker 4: equal to you. And I got a funny comparison, but
Speaker 4: I won't make it here, But basically it's that they
Speaker 4: screw somebody you like and you kind of got some
Speaker 4: issues with them. That's the only time I've ever seen
Speaker 4: that level of animis directed toward somebody on the opposite
Speaker 4: side is if you have been thoroughly royally messed over
Speaker 4: by them, or that you don't see them on your level,
Speaker 4: not needing the same things you do, not appreciating the
Speaker 4: same things you do. And I said that sort of jocularly,
Speaker 4: but in truth, that's the only time I've ever had deep, deep, deep,
Speaker 4: non humane animists for a person is in those kinds
Speaker 4: of stark contrasts. So I don't think people have to
Speaker 4: make the conclusion, don't think they have to connect them.
Speaker 4: But for those of us who are looking on trying
Speaker 4: to say, why should it matter to me that these
Speaker 4: guys are raising up yet another generation of racist haters,
Speaker 4: is because they're racist haters one day become JD bands
Speaker 4: And but for their pretty words and they're pretty grees,
Speaker 4: they're acceptable in society, and we never have to trace
Speaker 4: back to the fact that they don't see their fellow
Speaker 4: human as you may at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, go ahead, tip.
Speaker 6: Huh oh, No, I was I was gonna shift because he.
Speaker 8: Yes, nobody knows.
Speaker 6: When you're not intellectual.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 7: I think sometimes they see the the white man doesn't
Speaker 7: believe in himself enough, so he I think gets frustrated
Speaker 7: when he sees black people looking at an unleveled plan
Speaker 7: field and saying, watch me hurdle all of this that
Speaker 7: you put at me and still be successful. And sometimes
Speaker 7: we can adopt the oppressor's behavior. Which brings me to
Speaker 7: a clip that went viral this week, and that is
Speaker 7: of course, of our friend and brother, Mark Lamont Hill.
Speaker 7: This happened on the Joe Budden broadcast this week. Take
Speaker 7: a list and then we'll discuss on the other side.
Speaker 8: So if you allown to it because you said a
Speaker 8: lot of tricky words.
Speaker 9: No, I don't say regular boys tricky to you.
Speaker 10: Even if you do win famous you try to point
Speaker 10: out everything.
Speaker 8: Else that nobody do.
Speaker 9: That's sucking ship to me to take that.
Speaker 7: Okay, I know that was difficult to watch. I wanted
Speaker 7: to play it for that clip specifically because, first of all,
Speaker 7: I thought Mark Lamont Hill handled himself so incredibly well,
Speaker 7: standing across from a full blown temper tantrum from a
Speaker 7: grown man, and I think it's important for our viewers.
Speaker 7: If you don't know abart about Mark Lamant Hill, he
Speaker 7: is a luminary. He is an incredible intellectual who hosts
Speaker 7: an amazing show on Al Jazeera I'm called up Front,
Speaker 7: he hosted on Al Jazeera English. One of his interviews
Speaker 7: went viral during a post October seventh where he got
Speaker 7: the former Israeli Deputy Minister uh Danny Aylin to admit
Speaker 7: to concede that the response to Palestinians and Gaza was
Speaker 7: in fact collective punishment. He owns a bookstore. He's an
Speaker 7: amazing writer, He's a professor. He was unfortunately dismissed from
Speaker 7: CNN because he said from the river to the sea
Speaker 7: while speaking at the u N. If you're like me,
Speaker 7: you might genuinely wonder why is that considered anti Semitic.
Speaker 7: Some people of the community consider it so because Hamas
Speaker 7: used this phrase in twenty seventeen. Uh and some members
Speaker 7: of the Jewish Committee community thinks the phrase suggests that
Speaker 7: as a Palestinian h millik group, militant group and only
Speaker 7: used in that perspective that suggests that Israel does not
Speaker 7: have the right to exist. Mark mont Hill has been
Speaker 7: incredibly clear that he does not believe that it was
Speaker 7: a call for justice, and he made the reference when
Speaker 7: he was addressing the u N and he was just
Speaker 7: supporting Palestinian freedom which of course I certainly do as well.
Speaker 7: But this is why I thought I wanted to get
Speaker 7: my co host perspectives on this. There seems to be
Speaker 7: the death of black intellectualism, particularly when it comes to
Speaker 7: who has a microphone and viral clips like this take
Speaker 7: up so much space. To me, it was clear that
Speaker 7: his co host felt small, and you know, even him
Speaker 7: saying you use tricky words and Mark responding with I
Speaker 7: use words that are tricky to you. And anytime somebody
Speaker 7: I think cannot take to be questioned or responds with
Speaker 7: a full temper tantrum, it is always about that other person,
Speaker 7: not about like it wasn't Mark. He didn't do anything.
Speaker 7: And if someone is so small that you can't articulate
Speaker 7: your point without throwing a temper tantrum or insulting another person.
Speaker 7: I'm happy that Mark showed both tides that yes, I'm
Speaker 7: an intellectual, but don't give up in this studio, you know,
Speaker 7: And I think it's import and for people to see
Speaker 7: that yes you can still be an intellectual and demand
Speaker 7: your respect. That doesn't make you soft. I'm concerned though,
Speaker 7: in our community because when you look at the just
Speaker 7: the plain data, you can take my perspectives out of it.
Speaker 7: There seems to be an erosion. I don't consider myself
Speaker 7: a member of the black intellectual class, but I do
Speaker 7: thrive in that space. I love to be around sometimes Andrew,
Speaker 7: when you're talking, I forget I'm a host on the podcast,
Speaker 7: Like I'm just listening to you because you're saying something
Speaker 7: so brilliant to me, or something that I didn't know.
Speaker 7: I had no perspective, and I enjoy hearing that I
Speaker 7: have curiosity.
Speaker 6: I don't.
Speaker 7: I'm not trying to be fake humble, like I don't
Speaker 7: consider myself an intellectual. I consider myself intellectually curious. I
Speaker 7: have questions. I see that getting dulled across peers and
Speaker 7: across the community. Social media, I think, is a big
Speaker 7: part of that. A study out of UC San Diego
Speaker 7: found that even low levels of social media use are
Speaker 7: associated with poor cognitive out comes, particularly among children AI.
Speaker 7: People keep promoting AI like oh, look at this fancy
Speaker 7: new toy and not immediately countering it with the dangers
Speaker 7: of our community. The level of cognitive impairment of even
Speaker 7: just moderate use of AI like chat GPT is comparable
Speaker 7: to being concussed. Our literacy rates across black children. I'm
Speaker 7: only seventeen percent of black fourth graders scored at or
Speaker 7: above proficiency. Eighth graders could not a significant percentage of
Speaker 7: eighth graders could not read a paragraph and summarize it
Speaker 7: and say what it is. We're in a space we're
Speaker 7: telling people it's a time for reading books is considered
Speaker 7: the leitist and it's just frustrating to me. And I
Speaker 7: have to say, I'm sure we'll disagree here, or maybe
Speaker 7: we won't disagree, but I hope there are different perspectives
Speaker 7: than mine, because I have to say I am one
Speaker 7: of those people. I do not respect everybody's opinion the
Speaker 7: more like just because you have a microphone, I don't
Speaker 7: always respect your opinion. This guy who's talking, I don't
Speaker 7: respect his opinion. I Andrew, we talked. I'm not Mary,
Speaker 7: I don't have children. If I'm giving you advice on either,
Speaker 7: it's totally fine for you to say, what are you
Speaker 7: basing this on? Where did you get that information from?
Speaker 7: And I'm not going to be offended by you asking
Speaker 7: me that, because even if I might be right, you
Speaker 7: don't have to respect my opinion. I don't respect everybody's
Speaker 7: opinion on politics. You might be right on occasion. I
Speaker 7: don't respect your opinion, So I just think in this
Speaker 7: environment of these viral clips, I'm curious y'all take on
Speaker 7: all of this because I don't want to make it
Speaker 7: just about Mark. But Mark is there because people turn
Speaker 7: their back on him. Mark should not be on this podcast.
Speaker 7: He gets the opportunity to talk to people. But Mark
Speaker 7: should still be at CNN, if you ask my opinion,
Speaker 7: Mark should have had a contract soon as seeing this
Speaker 7: every let you go, somebody should have snatched Mark up
Speaker 7: and said that. And I just think they put dumb
Speaker 7: people on TV sometimes just because you have more likes
Speaker 7: than followers, and they don't celebrate our intellectualism. So I
Speaker 7: leave it there.
Speaker 6: Love to hear y'all thoughts.
Speaker 4: That's right, well one, I hope we hope we never
Speaker 4: get to a place of self censoring. I think it's
Speaker 4: important for us to bring our full belief cell full
Speaker 4: sales to this podcast because that's what our listeners, the
Speaker 4: people who ride with us expect, is that will be
Speaker 4: as directed through the cannon. I will be very honest.
Speaker 4: I've never listened to the Button by the Joe Budden
Speaker 4: podcast before. This was the first clip I've ever seen
Speaker 4: of it is with is with Mark on it, and
Speaker 4: that probably distances me even greater from a lot of
Speaker 4: folks out there who probably you know, it's the number
Speaker 4: five or top five or top ten for a reason
Speaker 4: that means people are going there to subscribe. The reason
Speaker 4: why I think I value a voice like Marx being
Speaker 4: able to cut through in a top ten, top five
Speaker 4: audience is that at least somebody gets an exposure to
Speaker 4: his perspective that may not have otherwise had it. But
Speaker 4: exactly what they're getting exposed to also matters. I don't
Speaker 4: know if that's the rhythm of it from day to
Speaker 4: day or whatever's broadcast week to week whenever it shows,
Speaker 4: but I've got to believe that knowing Mark well enough
Speaker 4: that on a regular basis, he's probably being able to
Speaker 4: enter into that conversation, that discussion a higher level of
Speaker 4: discourse than what we saw exhibited there. Maybe he's entering
Speaker 4: into entering into that conversation some terms, some theory of changes,
Speaker 4: some beliefs that then people go and google afterwards they
Speaker 4: didn't know before, and now the curiosity has been piqued
Speaker 4: and they're going to check it out and to that extent,
Speaker 4: I think that is a good thing. I think it
Speaker 4: is probably not a good thing in society when sort
Speaker 4: of our thoughtful folks are only talking to other thoughtful folks.
Speaker 4: I think that's probably not the setup that we want. However,
Speaker 4: I know for sure I don't want to watch that
Speaker 4: fight every day. I don't want to watch that kind
Speaker 4: of discourse every day. I don't know that I want
Speaker 4: to see it any day. To be frank frank with you, Tiffany,
Speaker 4: what you brought up around some of the literacy rates.
Speaker 4: What the damage that AI is doing to quote unquote
Speaker 4: simplify somebody's life. But what is it dus life? Is
Speaker 4: it dumbing down in the process? That bothers me to
Speaker 4: a great extent. My kids know when they walk in
Speaker 4: the door after they get they snacked, the first thing
Speaker 4: they doing for the first thirty minutes at home is
Speaker 4: reading a book. The books are I shouldn't hear your voice.
Speaker 4: The book isn't talking out loud whatever, you know, And
Speaker 4: we're conscious about that, we were conscious. My kids hate it.
Speaker 4: But when they do birthday cards, they write the birthday
Speaker 4: card one, I'm sick of paying three dollars, four dollars,
Speaker 4: five dollars for kids' birthday card. That's crazy to me.
Speaker 4: But but but more importantly, the art of writing, of
Speaker 4: just articulating a sentiment. When my son Jackson wrote his
Speaker 4: first birthday card and it ended up being a paragraph long,
Speaker 4: I was over the moon because I was impressed by
Speaker 4: the by the sentiment he was expressing. I don't want
Speaker 4: our kids to lose that, and I think it's really
Speaker 4: incoming upon the parents to weigh down on them to
Speaker 4: make sure that we're curating some of that experience for them.
Speaker 4: I know these sound like two separate kinds of kinds
Speaker 4: of conversations, but it really isn't. Because if you teach
Speaker 4: your child to come to expect a certain thing to
Speaker 4: exchange at a certain level of discourse, then that's what
Speaker 4: they're going to do. But if you put no expectation
Speaker 4: out there and the world starts to shape that for them,
Speaker 4: then that's some of what I think you get.
Speaker 1: I heard Tiff at the outset say that she thought
Speaker 1: that Mark handled himself well in the exchange, and I
Speaker 1: can't tell you all how much I cringe looking at
Speaker 1: that exchange. I have been in conversation, in relationship with
Speaker 1: people that take you completely off of your square and
Speaker 1: who you are, who you have evolved out of. And
Speaker 1: I think for me, what's frustrating, and this is something
Speaker 1: that I would tell our friend as well, is I
Speaker 1: never want anybody to take take any of us off
Speaker 1: of our square, but particularly not him. He just has
Speaker 1: so much to the world now, to so much to
Speaker 1: add to the world.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: I'll say the first to call myself sophistic ratchet all
Speaker 1: day long, All day long, I believe in you know,
Speaker 1: both sides, like you might, depending on the mood, you
Speaker 1: might if if I'm feeling froggy, I might leap. But
Speaker 1: what I don't like is I know firsthand that the
Speaker 1: founder of Uncle Bobby's that's striving to ensure that black
Speaker 1: folks can read in a neighborhood that he loves and Philly,
Speaker 1: the same person that's creating black jobs and providing opportunity
Speaker 1: for our folks, doesn't want to show up that way
Speaker 1: for himself, for his family, first kids, for anybody. And
Speaker 1: so what I really want to ask us to consider
Speaker 1: is how do we resolve conflict when things are heated
Speaker 1: without name calling, without attacking someone's intellect or lack thereof.
Speaker 1: I think that we can lovingly challenge people to rise
Speaker 1: up without calling them them or anti intellectual.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's that is where we are.
Speaker 1: But is there another way to call people in I
Speaker 1: don't think that Mark should be left holding the bag
Speaker 1: in this exchange. I take great issue with that podcast
Speaker 1: and it's treatment of Mark. And I was wondering when
Speaker 1: when he was gonna when he was gonna snap. You know,
Speaker 1: there's another clip that I don't know if you all saw, uh,
Speaker 1: where Mark announces very vulnerably that he's lost almost all
Speaker 1: of his colleagues that were reporting in Gaza, and by lost,
Speaker 1: I mean they are killed. They were they they died
Speaker 1: in their reporting.
Speaker 11: And then around the world we're seeing violence everywhere, including
Speaker 11: guys that where I were for Al Jazeera and my colleagues.
Speaker 11: Every colleague I having guys has been murdered. Every single
Speaker 11: colleague I have in guys that has been murdered. So
Speaker 11: we got a lot of work to do, a lot
Speaker 11: of stuff to.
Speaker 3: Pay attention to.
Speaker 10: All Right, young thug, Uh, every time you do that?
Speaker 10: He doing so fast? Yeah, he doing it again? By
Speaker 10: you don't never support him when you start talking that ship.
Speaker 8: He has my full support.
Speaker 12: But I also know that once he says something like
Speaker 12: that or we discussed something like that, then we're just like, Okay,
Speaker 12: what's the fucking pivot?
Speaker 2: What's the pivot?
Speaker 12: After we talk about every journalist in on the Gadza
Speaker 12: strip being murdered, Like, what's the pivot?
Speaker 10: So Young Thugs appeared on Little Babies Project, quite the project, and.
Speaker 2: He's sharing vulnerably he's lost all his people and Joe,
Speaker 2: Butten's transition not this other guy. I don't know the
Speaker 2: everybody's name, but not this other guy, Joe Buden's transition
Speaker 2: is like and Young Thug like just no mintion of
Speaker 2: like are you okay?
Speaker 1: How do you feel? Who was lost this week? How
Speaker 1: did they die? Just like nothing? So two tips point
Speaker 1: around curiosity. If you can't find curiosity, find sympathy. If
Speaker 1: you can't find sympathy, find empathy. If you can't find empathy,
Speaker 1: find compassion because if you don't, the person who is
Speaker 1: in a constant state of grief, at some point that
Speaker 1: grief turns to rage because there's not a safe.
Speaker 2: Container for it.
Speaker 1: So we say on this show, welcome home, and we
Speaker 1: mean that, of course Mark is welcome anytime. I don't
Speaker 1: know about the rest of them. But I will just say,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think that that means that we
Speaker 1: should be foreclosed to having discussions that are tough, or
Speaker 1: where we don't think people are our peers or.
Speaker 2: We're on the same level. I'm not into that.
Speaker 1: But where I see folks who are constantly unwilling to
Speaker 1: have conversations that stretch, or to have conversations where they
Speaker 1: at least can appreciate a different perspective, I don't know
Speaker 1: that I'm into that, So I just I I just
Speaker 1: want marching on. I'm praying for you, brother, you know that,
Speaker 1: And I just I want better for him. I think
Speaker 1: that he deserves to hold space with people who are
Speaker 1: at least more compassionate and more eager to learn from
Speaker 1: his perspective. And clearly, you could take a negro out
Speaker 1: the hood, but you can't take the hood out the negro.
Speaker 1: So you might not want to keep leaping at Mark.
Speaker 1: He might just snap and bust your ass next time.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't want him to do that. But I mean
Speaker 1: it was getting Real Housewives to me. Okay, well, we
Speaker 1: have more on Marca mont Hill and what happened on
Speaker 1: the Joe Butden podcast, right, on the other side.
Speaker 2: Of his break.
Speaker 3: So I think this is a multifaceted discussion that I'm
Speaker 3: glad to be having in this space with you all,
Speaker 3: because I think I agree on many points and then
Speaker 3: I disagree with some that I'll kind of get to.
Speaker 3: But I think the reason this conversation is important with
Speaker 3: Tiffany is because we live in a culture of anti
Speaker 3: intellectualism and we have to understand that, and most of
Speaker 3: that is intentional. In this country right now, we literally
Speaker 3: punish kids because of the zip code they're born into.
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that, and I think Andrew
Speaker 3: may recall this from his time as being mayor, is
Speaker 3: that the way we fund our schools right now is
Speaker 3: from federal funding, state funding, and local funding. And so
Speaker 3: if you're from a poor area like where I'm from,
Speaker 3: I was going to catch twenty two when I was
Speaker 3: legislating because I couldn't recruit industry because I had poor schools.
Speaker 3: But I had poor schools because I couldn't recruit industry,
Speaker 3: and so it becomes very cyclical about the resources. And
Speaker 3: I mean, to TIFF's greater point, we're not preparing young
Speaker 3: people for twenty first century global economy. We're not giving
Speaker 3: them access. And right now, the proverbial world is flat
Speaker 3: because when you graduate from Denmark, South Carolina, where I'm from,
Speaker 3: or Tallaha I see, or Seattle or wherever you may
Speaker 3: be from, you're now competing with kids who finish all
Speaker 3: around the world, and it contributes to this culture of
Speaker 3: anti intellectualism. I think Mark's purpose there and I love
Speaker 3: Mark Lamont Hill. We disagree on a lot of things substantively.
Speaker 3: We hit each other up policy, we try to have
Speaker 3: these intellectual discussions back and forth. He's somebody who sharpened you.
Speaker 3: But I think Mark is there intentionally. I think Mark
Speaker 3: is there purposefully. I think that it adds the dynamic
Speaker 3: and I going back to our conversations that we've had
Speaker 3: in the past, you cannot let things go in a
Speaker 3: vacuum without them being challenged, and so I do think
Speaker 3: that there is an added value to having someone like
Speaker 3: Mark lamon Hill being there. You know, I watch the
Speaker 3: show every now and then, Andrew, I'm not a I
Speaker 3: can't consume everything all the time, but I do watch
Speaker 3: it every now and then. And you know, I know
Speaker 3: I think his name is Flip. I guarantee you I
Speaker 3: know ten flips. I know one of Mark Clamant Hill,
Speaker 3: because that's just the level of intellect. But I know
Speaker 3: ten flips at minimum, and I think the way they
Speaker 3: were able to have that conversation, as cringe as it is,
Speaker 3: are conversations that happen more often than people actually think,
Speaker 3: or they're conversations that people want to have. I'm not
Speaker 3: in a position to give Mark Lamont Hill any advice,
Speaker 3: but what I would tell him if I talked to
Speaker 3: him the day or tomorrow, and I might hit him
Speaker 3: up on text, is what my daddy told me, which
Speaker 3: is that you never argue with a fool because people
Speaker 3: watching can't tell the difference, right. And so you know,
Speaker 3: in the South Carolina we say you roll around with pigs,
Speaker 3: you both get muddy, and the pig likes it, right,
Speaker 3: And so there's this certain level of kind of checks
Speaker 3: and balances that goes through your head. But I love
Speaker 3: the layered dynamic that is Mark Lamont Hill from Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: I think Andrew has the same thing in him, like
Speaker 3: there is a certain level of respect that you must have,
Speaker 3: which is also why I'm pushing back on one of
Speaker 3: your points, Tiffany. There is a certain level of respect
Speaker 3: you must have going into these conversations, right, and it's
Speaker 3: a respect. We will never have that because we all
Speaker 3: have that level of respect for each other. And what
Speaker 3: you saw in that episode was that respect being fractured.
Speaker 3: And whenever that respect is fractured, you have to be
Speaker 3: willing to bust someone's ass, right, And you I mean
Speaker 3: not not literally, but you got to.
Speaker 8: Show that you are or literally or literally.
Speaker 3: Because because because I mean t I is somebody who
Speaker 3: talks about it often oftentimes cliper areas. You never get
Speaker 3: that back. You never get that back, right. And so
Speaker 3: I loved how layered the discussion was. It was very real.
Speaker 3: You know, it's cringe worthy to watch all those things,
Speaker 3: but it was very, very real. And I think that
Speaker 3: I took something out of that where I think that
Speaker 3: people were extremely proud Mark Lamont Hill uh stood up
Speaker 3: for himself in that moment. I think that I respect
Speaker 3: Flip's opinions, all though they aren't maybe to the level
Speaker 3: of likening, of intellectual capacity or whatever, but there's so
Speaker 3: many people that have it that I'm not ready to
Speaker 3: cast him aside. I want him to have more conversations
Speaker 3: with Mark Lamont Hill. I want him to approach these
Speaker 3: conversations with respect. I want Mark to approach those conversations
Speaker 3: with flip with respect. I think we have to do
Speaker 3: that when we're going on college campuses or going out
Speaker 3: in the world. I mean, you have to have this
Speaker 3: level of respect because that is the only way information
Speaker 3: will free flow. The last thing that I'll say is
Speaker 3: something that you and Andrew said which made me kind
Speaker 3: of jump a little bit, is it's about It's about
Speaker 3: AI and the way that we approach it right And
Speaker 3: I think and I know that we probably will get
Speaker 3: to the same place, but the way that it was
Speaker 3: couched it scares me a little bit. And the reason
Speaker 3: it scares me is because many times black folk end
Speaker 3: up in diametrical opposition from the next thing. And what
Speaker 3: I don't want to do is ever frame us, because
Speaker 3: it will leave us behind. I want us to be
Speaker 3: a part of this new revolution. I want us to
Speaker 3: find our footing in artificial intelligence. I want us to
Speaker 3: be able to accept it in our communities. I want
Speaker 3: us to be able to monetize it in our communities.
Speaker 3: I want us to be able to use it in
Speaker 3: our communities. I will it contribute to the culture of
Speaker 3: anti intellectualism, probably, but we also do we want it
Speaker 3: to contribute to the culture of anti intellectualism and to
Speaker 3: leave us behind in terms of being a part of
Speaker 3: this ship that we know is coming. Or do we
Speaker 3: take this posture being anti intellectual? I mean, we take
Speaker 3: this posture being anti AI to a point where again
Speaker 3: we're talking about man if thirty years ago, forty years ago,
Speaker 3: fifty years ago, we would have been on the front
Speaker 3: lines of XYZ, It's different. This isn't a this is
Speaker 3: not an indictment on Andrew talking about the way that
Speaker 3: he integrates books with his children, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera. And I want to be clear about that
Speaker 3: because I try to do the same thing. I want
Speaker 3: my kids to be well rad I want that I'm
Speaker 3: actually going to steal that thing about writing birthday cards,
Speaker 3: not because I'm as cheap as Andrew, but because I
Speaker 3: think it's just a good parenting idea. But I do
Speaker 3: want us to to kind of posture ourselves with this
Speaker 3: new innovation is not just looking at the detriment but
Speaker 3: also looking at the plus. Mind you, I'm not someone
Speaker 3: who knows all the pluses, but I'm willing to try.
Speaker 6: I hear you Andrew. I mean, I'm.
Speaker 3: I'm about to go markle My Hill and his mother,
Speaker 3: and that's what I'm about to do.
Speaker 6: I don't want to know.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Tip you he ain't coming because guess what you behind
Speaker 1: a screen, he feel a real bowl right over there.
Speaker 6: I hear you on the A.
Speaker 7: I point And just in transparency, I did reach out
Speaker 7: to Mark and invite him on our show and he
Speaker 7: enthusiastically accepted. So look for Mark to join the podcast
Speaker 7: in the coming weeks and I can't wait to have
Speaker 7: him here to invite him. And I'm so happy Angelaie
Speaker 7: referenced that other clip because that was the other clip
Speaker 7: that I was so offended by. But to your point,
Speaker 7: Bakari one about AI, it's not, you know, I don't
Speaker 7: think the answer to you know, will dis contribute to
Speaker 7: anti intellectualism. Probably the answer is absolutely like we have
Speaker 7: the data right now this shows that. But I do
Speaker 7: take your point, and I'm in this debate with almost
Speaker 7: everybody I talked to about and as Angelin knows, I
Speaker 7: don't like the debate. But I'm in this debate because
Speaker 7: people are trying Because people are trying to convince me.
Speaker 6: To like AI, and I'm like, I'm not.
Speaker 7: I know it's necessary, it's here, but I'm not going
Speaker 7: to be one of these people. It's like, I'm so
Speaker 7: excited about AI. I do think just like social media,
Speaker 7: it does intellects, and I think us we grew up
Speaker 7: without social media, we grew up without AI, and so
Speaker 7: our brains are wired differently where we can utilize these
Speaker 7: tools and still maintain some level of cognitive function. Young
Speaker 7: people do not have that privilege. I also will say,
Speaker 7: on this an area where we likely disagree, I made
Speaker 7: the cheese may stand alone on this one too. I'm
Speaker 7: not saying it's something wrong with engaging the flips of
Speaker 7: the world. I would never say Andrew Bacari Angela, y'all
Speaker 7: should not engage the flips. I'm saying I, Tiffany, have
Speaker 7: no desire to engage.
Speaker 6: The flips of the world.
Speaker 7: I don't choose to be in a conversation. But that's
Speaker 7: just not my ministry. I wouldn't be good at it,
Speaker 7: and I just have no desire. And yes, I do
Speaker 7: maintain I do not respect everybody's opinion on everything, and yes,
Speaker 7: we respect each other's opinion here on most things, but
Speaker 7: there are some things. I mean, Bikari, if you came
Speaker 7: to me and was like, oh your period coming, you
Speaker 7: got a cramp, this is what you need to do,
Speaker 7: I'm probably like, what are you basing that on?
Speaker 6: Bcar? Like where did you get that from? Like that's
Speaker 6: not necessarily your area of expertise, So I might not.
Speaker 3: I got that off. I got that off Instagram. The lady.
Speaker 1: Listen and how bad the crabs are.
Speaker 2: I might listen to a wh.
Speaker 7: But I hear that so often and people are like, oh, well,
Speaker 7: I got a hunch, or I got it off Instagram,
Speaker 7: or I saw it on TikTok, or I know for
Speaker 7: a fact, Well, how do you know for a fact?
Speaker 7: And then more often people told me because so and
Speaker 7: so told me that you don't know for a fact.
Speaker 7: If you didn't talk to the source, then you don't
Speaker 7: know something for a fact. So I don't respect everyone's.
Speaker 4: Opinion sports and your.
Speaker 6: All, how dare you?
Speaker 7: I am happy to be the sports expert, but there
Speaker 7: are some things that y'all shouldn't.
Speaker 6: Respect my opinion on, like and I think that.
Speaker 3: Let me just say this, Let me say what my
Speaker 3: fear is when I go into conversations about respect. And
Speaker 3: also let me just say that Tiffany and people that
Speaker 3: are listening, protect your peace right. You were the only
Speaker 3: one that knows how to make sure that you are
Speaker 3: as healthy mentally and emotionally to go forward. Amen, And
Speaker 3: I don't want you decompensating overdoing some other bullshit that
Speaker 3: otherwise you and do. However, my only point in saying
Speaker 3: that we have to approach these conversations in respect, and
Speaker 3: I'm glad that Mark is having these conversations, is that
Speaker 3: particularly with black folks and black intelligentsia, the gulf between
Speaker 3: black intelligentsia and those people who are intellectually curious is widening.
Speaker 3: A lot to do with societal and policy factors, but
Speaker 3: also whether or not we want to hear this or not,
Speaker 3: we're pushing them away, and so I think we have
Speaker 3: to be very cognizant. And we speaking I'm not speaking French,
Speaker 3: I mean global weed. I mean we have to be
Speaker 3: very cognizant that sometimes you want to say, Man, I
Speaker 3: just want to have a conversation with Andrew Gilloman marcom
Speaker 3: On Hill. You know, those are the people I want
Speaker 3: to talk to because those are the people that get
Speaker 3: me and we can talk about politics with some depth.
Speaker 3: And then when somebody asks you a question and they
Speaker 3: come to you and they're like, man, so again, you know,
Speaker 3: Steven A was talking about this in Jasmine Crockett on appropriations,
Speaker 3: and then you don't want to go there with them
Speaker 3: because of that intellect, actual curiosity, and you push them away.
Speaker 3: Then they begin to seek out other sources. And so
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out how we how we feel
Speaker 3: that vacuum. And that's why, you know Mark, if Mark
Speaker 3: got it, I'll pay for some boxing lessons. That's what
Speaker 3: it takes for him to go and be successful on
Speaker 3: the Joe Button podcast. You know what I mean?
Speaker 4: You know what I wish we had started with, and
Speaker 4: I know we're wrapping this topic up. I wish we
Speaker 4: would have started with what we think we heard in
Speaker 4: the exchange, you know, just a little interpretation of what
Speaker 4: that idea actually didn't. What I will say is I
Speaker 4: didn't think that there were fancy words dividing what each
Speaker 4: of them understood the other to be saying. It wasn't
Speaker 4: a vocabulary contest. It was somebody saying, you're always using
Speaker 4: words that feel bigger than what this conversation really ought
Speaker 4: to be. About to impress somebody and to cuddle up
Speaker 4: to this audience and to make you know, people feel
Speaker 4: better about this part of that part. And he said, nah,
Speaker 4: I didn't do that. You think they're big words because
Speaker 4: you don't always understand them, and dudes like, nah, I
Speaker 4: don't you just always you know, you're always doing too much.
Speaker 4: But we can go on and all that, But there
Speaker 4: were there were not big divides in understanding what the
Speaker 4: other was saying. I completely I feel like I followed
Speaker 4: what the beef may have been or been or may
Speaker 4: not have been about. And that's why this whole idea
Speaker 4: that some condescension and the way in which we talk
Speaker 4: about these things has to take place in order for
Speaker 4: us to be on the same plane of debate is
Speaker 4: a little weird to me. I think a lot of
Speaker 4: times it may make us feel good to say we
Speaker 4: got to use a different vocabulary in order for all
Speaker 4: of us to be on the same page, but at
Speaker 4: a very different level, I don't think the vocabulary is
Speaker 4: the problem at all. I'm hearing exactly, I'm picking up
Speaker 4: exactly what you're putting down. I'm picking it all up.
Speaker 4: I'm telling you, this is the part about it where
Speaker 4: you're not gonna come at me that way and you're
Speaker 4: still coming. But you're not gonna come at me that
Speaker 4: way and you're still coming. And so what has to
Speaker 4: happen is it's not like we're refusing to have the conversation.
Speaker 4: The conversation is being had. It's absolutely being had. Now,
Speaker 4: whether or not you're properly interpreting you know, you know
Speaker 4: my disc versus you're that is something completely different. I
Speaker 4: resent the idea that you have to speak Why can't
Speaker 4: we call up instead of acting down or calling down?
Speaker 4: What is the matter we're calling up into a conversation?
Speaker 6: What's that mean?
Speaker 4: Calling for me? It simply is we don't have to
Speaker 4: use cuss words the whole way through in order for
Speaker 4: us to feel like we're having a very gutter, you know,
Speaker 4: conversation that everybody can reach into. But what do you
Speaker 4: mean precisely what you just said, what you just exampled.
Speaker 4: It's just one way at it that I think sometimes
Speaker 4: this whole idea of meeting people at their level and
Speaker 4: this sort of thing is an insult to the people
Speaker 4: for whom you think you're a meeting that sometimes that
Speaker 4: that meeting can take place at a very common place,
Speaker 4: at a very decent and respectable place, without us going,
Speaker 4: you know, without us going outside ourselves.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm over here in justing.
Speaker 3: I'm working, y'all, and I'm trying. I'm doing the best
Speaker 3: I can with the.
Speaker 2: I feel man's explain.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say he really does have a delay. Is
Speaker 1: getting on our nerves. But I will just say this too.
Speaker 1: I think it is really important for us to understand
Speaker 1: that sometimes this is about inadequacy. And I think that
Speaker 1: if our if anybody should understand what it is like
Speaker 1: to feel voiceless or silenced, what it is like to
Speaker 1: feel unheard or invisible, unseen, I think it's to be
Speaker 1: black folks.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: How we got to a place where our conversations are
Speaker 1: so siloed. You know, the construct of the neighborhood doesn't
Speaker 1: look the same anymore. There's gentrification.
Speaker 2: The kids.
Speaker 1: You know, some kids are going to private school and
Speaker 1: their parents afford it, can afford to send them there,
Speaker 1: but they still trying to find them communal activities. Some
Speaker 1: of our folks, but there are so many more who
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable sending black kids with other black children,
Speaker 1: and so they are siloed. And I do think we
Speaker 1: have an obligation for unity's sake, just for math, like
Speaker 1: there ain't enough of us for all of these additional divides.
Speaker 2: This man on this show, though, hattn't.
Speaker 1: I don't feel come to terms with the fact that
Speaker 1: he is on the other side of disrespect too often
Speaker 1: with Mark, And so what Mark was focused on someone
Speaker 1: who is smart, and we know in our community sometimes
Speaker 1: when you're smart, you are bullied like all of your life,
Speaker 1: Like you are bullied if you're the one that seen
Speaker 1: reading books and you don't play at recess sometimes because
Speaker 1: you want to do your homework or whatever. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that's Mark's story, but sometimes it is. And you still, nigga,
Speaker 1: You'll get mad every now and then are like, let
Speaker 1: me tell you what you shouldn't get confused. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the part what he was focusing on, Andrews,
Speaker 1: that you were talking about. The why I heard Mark
Speaker 1: almost zone in on the sucker shit remark. He was like,
Speaker 1: you ain't gonna call me sucker too many more times,
Speaker 1: And it's because he's constantly having that experience on the podcast,
Speaker 1: which is why that's my concern for his mental health.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Mark is mature and older and had an angry outburst,
Speaker 1: but also checked himself. I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: let's I'll calm down to try to reel it back in.
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of kids who don't have
Speaker 1: the tools to emotionally do that at school, and they're
Speaker 1: the ones who end up taking the gun to school.
Speaker 2: They're the ones who I agree.
Speaker 4: With you one hundred percent on this all really being
Speaker 4: about a conversation of inadequacy, and the truth is is
Speaker 4: that it was inadequacy on both sides than you can
Speaker 4: there's some that because yeah, yes, go right ahead.
Speaker 3: No, because I was gonna say one of the things
Speaker 3: we have not brought to the forefront is the fact
Speaker 3: that y'all do realize. Mark called this nigga dumb.
Speaker 6: I did not hear that.
Speaker 3: How did you?
Speaker 4: He said?
Speaker 1: He said, I'm using words that are tricky to you.
Speaker 7: He responded to say, you're using them tricky words and
Speaker 7: he said, I'm not, you know not, come on tip that.
Speaker 6: I disagree.
Speaker 7: And this is why I don't have conversations with with
Speaker 7: with people like that, because to me, that people like
Speaker 7: him because you, because Mark made him feel small, because
Speaker 7: so fragile, because well this will we disagree.
Speaker 6: I've Mark made him feel small.
Speaker 7: And when he said you use those tricky words, and
Speaker 7: Mark said, I don't use tricky words. I'm using words
Speaker 7: that are tricky to you, I actually agree with that.
Speaker 7: I don't have to like again if my ministry like,
Speaker 7: I applaud anybody who goes into spaces and says, yes,
Speaker 7: I can. You are the person I'm seeking out the
Speaker 7: flips of the world are the people I want to engage.
Speaker 6: I applaud it. I don't look down on that. I
Speaker 6: don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 7: I'm saying. I know because I'm gonna respond how Mark did.
Speaker 7: Don't try to belittle me because I'm using the word
Speaker 7: you don't understand. Don't try to put a put down
Speaker 7: to me because I'm talking about something that might be
Speaker 7: a bit over your head.
Speaker 6: So I did not hear Mark call him dumb.
Speaker 7: I heard Mark saying, no, don't try to say something
Speaker 7: to me because I'm using a word you don't understand.
Speaker 7: Use your curiosity and say, Mark, can you better explain
Speaker 7: your point? You all talk about things all the time.
Speaker 7: Angela and I have breakfast in New York with our
Speaker 7: boil off Onso. They're both attorneys, and so they were
Speaker 7: saying things that I didn't follow. I didn't understand, and
Speaker 7: Angela was saying and stuff like well, i'd have to
Speaker 7: pro howk in and up yup because discovery. I didn't
Speaker 7: get that. I wasn't sitting there like I mean, y'all
Speaker 7: all using them tricky words like I'm here too. I'm like,
Speaker 7: what is that mean exactly?
Speaker 8: You know?
Speaker 4: I mean, was I not?
Speaker 2: But t if you're a wire different, you're wired different.
Speaker 1: And I think what the three of us, I don't
Speaker 1: want to speak for the boys.
Speaker 2: I'll let them do it themselves.
Speaker 1: But the three of us may have heard an implication
Speaker 1: of dumb if somebody said that, well, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: still dumb, like whether he said it directly or was implied.
Speaker 1: If somebody said back to me, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what y'all talk about, and they'd be like, well,
Speaker 1: you don't know because you slow, that's not calling me dumb.
Speaker 6: But he didn't say that.
Speaker 1: I know, But I'm trying to give you an analogy.
Speaker 1: No debater, you know, she not debated, y'all.
Speaker 7: I wanted at some point we're gonna talk tell that
Speaker 7: conversation because I think we're people probably agree with Angela
Speaker 7: when we talk about it.
Speaker 6: But anyway, well, I didn't want to say.
Speaker 1: This, but it would be go ahead, Butkari, because we
Speaker 1: would be really good, we get to yes, yes.
Speaker 3: No, because I'm gonna let y'all have this reparation conversation
Speaker 3: on the west coast. We don't know what those are
Speaker 3: in South Carolina. But I when I when I said
Speaker 3: the conversation was layered, I saw two people get heated
Speaker 3: in a conversation. I saw, you know, they're going back
Speaker 3: and forth about something you're doing. I saw Mark call
Speaker 3: him dumb. I saw the guy respond is if somebody
Speaker 3: just called him dumb. I saw a conversation get out
Speaker 3: of hand. But the thing that you got to point
Speaker 3: out that Angela hit on was something that our brother
Speaker 3: Marco my Hill should get credit for, which is that
Speaker 3: he had the emotional intelligence to see a conversation get
Speaker 3: out of hand at the end of that clip and
Speaker 3: said let me sit down, let me back away. And
Speaker 3: Angela highlighted something that I do not want to go unnoticed.
Speaker 3: And I'm to be over here. You know, going to
Speaker 3: be a black man whisperer all the time, but when
Speaker 3: the point comes up, I will say this that there
Speaker 3: are a lot of our young boys who do not
Speaker 3: and cannot because they don't have the tools display the
Speaker 3: level of emotional intelligence that Mark got and Mark showed,
Speaker 3: and sometimes they're going to have these discussions and debates
Speaker 3: at you know, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, and
Speaker 3: instead of being expelled from school, which becomes cyclical and
Speaker 3: kicked out of school, if they're able to say, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, let me cool down, let cooler heads prevail.
Speaker 3: I think that is also a lesson that we can
Speaker 3: take for Mark Lamont Hill, even if he didn't want
Speaker 3: to be in that space, because sometimes people get us
Speaker 3: out of character, and sometimes black folks got to get
Speaker 3: out of character, and so you know, I think being
Speaker 3: able to pull yourself back in sometimes and breathe. I
Speaker 3: give Mark full props for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of pulling, the governor of CA California does
Speaker 1: not think that we should have reparations, and I think
Speaker 1: that is this is a continuation of a Booker T.
Speaker 1: Washington concept of pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.
Speaker 1: We don't have no boots for in So somehow that
Speaker 1: got a little confused. We are going to talk now
Speaker 1: about him vetoing some measures and if you can't tell,
Speaker 1: I am trying to pull what those measures are exactly.
Speaker 6: There was one, Angela, No.
Speaker 1: I got it there there was There was one that
Speaker 1: I want to point out to interestingly, as there is
Speaker 1: this onslaught of attacks on higher education, one of the
Speaker 1: bills was a post secondary education admissions preference which would
Speaker 1: have been for descendants of the enslaved. What I think
Speaker 1: is fascinating here is this is Assembly Bill seven who
Speaker 1: was introduced.
Speaker 2: It was introduced by Isaac Bryan.
Speaker 1: What's fascinating about this is there's this attack, this violent
Speaker 1: attack almost on universities all over the country. They think
Speaker 1: that this bill have violated Proposition two nine. That's what
Speaker 1: I talked about at the top of this show. Then
Speaker 1: there's the California Dream for all people. This would have
Speaker 1: also benefited a descendants of enslaved people. That also was vetoed.
Speaker 1: That was AB fifty seven. Assembly Bill fifty seven. Assembly
Speaker 1: Bill sixty two would have had the Civil Rights Department
Speaker 1: deal with racially motivated imminent domain, which we know is
Speaker 1: a big issue in California, but also all over this country,
Speaker 1: issues like airs property as well have come up, and
Speaker 1: of course folks lose in property for property tax debt
Speaker 1: has been a major issue that also was vetoed. Then
Speaker 1: there was Assembly Bill seven forty two that were for
Speaker 1: the Department of Consumer Affairs, the licensing would be preferential
Speaker 1: for anyone who was a descendant of an enslaved person.
Speaker 1: And lastly Assembly Bill seven sixty six, this would have
Speaker 1: provided strategic plans for diversity, equity and inclusion for state
Speaker 1: agencies and departments. Gavin Newsome saw it fit to veto
Speaker 1: not one, not two, not three, not four, but five
Speaker 1: bills that would have provided some benefit to enslaved people
Speaker 1: of descendants of people who were enslaved. And I think
Speaker 1: what is mind blowing about this is what he agreed
Speaker 1: to was a study. We know over and over again
Speaker 1: that folks are put into position to review. And maybe
Speaker 1: it's because this textbook thing that people have been bandoned
Speaker 1: textbooks long before they were off the shelves, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: even look at them to deal with guilt. So now
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom, who has found time to engage with white Republicans,
Speaker 1: especially those who support and lift up white racist ideology
Speaker 1: saw fit to veto five bills that would have provided
Speaker 1: some type of restorative or reparative justice for folks who
Speaker 1: are descendants of enslaved people.
Speaker 6: So I'll just the.
Speaker 7: Best a little bit of clarity and then I don't
Speaker 7: have to lay in on it. But the bill that
Speaker 7: he did sign was authorizing six million dollars for California
Speaker 7: State University to study how to confirm an individual status
Speaker 7: as a descendant of an enslaved person. And for context
Speaker 7: out if you've been following on the reparations issue in California,
Speaker 7: a few years ago, the state legislature.
Speaker 6: Did approve.
Speaker 7: A similar bill of reparations bill which also caused a
Speaker 7: lot of controversy because one people began to question the
Speaker 7: history of slavery and how many people were enslaved in California,
Speaker 7: And of course there were enslaved people in California, and
Speaker 7: California certainly benefit from the institution of slavery, as did
Speaker 7: every state in America too. It became quite a debate
Speaker 7: because there was controversy over if you were a descendant
Speaker 7: of an enslaved person here in America. And so the
Speaker 7: ahead of the Black Caucus at the time, who had
Speaker 7: authored this bill was out and about trying to defend that.
Speaker 7: They were saying, yes, you have to be a descendant
Speaker 7: of an enslaved person here in America. So when you
Speaker 7: think about people, maybe you know your parents migrated from
Speaker 7: the Caribbean, which also benefit from the slave trade. They
Speaker 7: were saying, if your mama gotta be it happens to
Speaker 7: be Jamaican, or your grandma was Jamaican, then you do
Speaker 7: not qualify for these bills. So the reparations issue in
Speaker 7: California has been a huge deal. This also isn't unlike
Speaker 7: what we've seen in Congress. Angela could probably say more
Speaker 7: about this on what Congress from Mishila Jackson Lee. Correct
Speaker 7: me if I'm wrong, angel I think I have this
Speaker 7: rite I'm pulling from memory. Congress from Mishila Jackson Lee
Speaker 7: was also a big advocate on just a study, and
Speaker 7: if I am correct, that study was also never a
Speaker 7: Congress kept saying no, we won't even approve a bill
Speaker 7: to study what reparations would look like. And there have
Speaker 7: been similar measures all across the country, even including in Maryland.
Speaker 7: Our friend friend of the Shelle Governor Wes Moore, who
Speaker 7: also vetoed a reparations bill. So that's the context, and
Speaker 7: I'm not sure that we'll ever see reparations in this
Speaker 7: country at the state or a federal level, to be honest.
Speaker 7: I think the other thing that's important here is he
Speaker 7: did approve for measures. All of them had to do
Speaker 7: with how you file or receive a civil rights complaint,
Speaker 7: how dollars are being spent in post secondary education. There
Speaker 7: have been four bills that he approved since August. All
Speaker 7: of them have to do with study or the ways
Speaker 7: in which civil rights complaints are decided. And sadly, and
Speaker 7: maybe this was on purpose, I'm willing to say at
Speaker 7: this point the way this guy moves it could be
Speaker 7: on purpose. He knows that there are federal dollars that
Speaker 7: would have to help to determine whether or not the
Speaker 7: Department of Education, for example, in California, can even go
Speaker 7: through and have the actual funding necessary to address said claims.
Speaker 7: The other thing that we have to just be clear
Speaker 7: about is some of the state funding that would go
Speaker 7: to CSU, which is where one of the bills also
Speaker 7: and impacts California State University, also federal dollars. So the
Speaker 7: moment they do something that is in the crosshairs of
Speaker 7: the federal government. They will likely lose federal funding. We've
Speaker 7: already seen that happen. So the bills that.
Speaker 1: He approved, I think all of them are contingent in
Speaker 1: some way at least or at least can put them
Speaker 1: in the crosshairs of losing federal funding.
Speaker 7: How do you compare his vetail to that of Governor
Speaker 7: Wes Moore, because they both essentially I mean, yeah, anybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wes Moore was it was a study. He said
Speaker 1: that they had done enough studies. I tend to agree.
Speaker 1: I just would have liked to see him establish an
Speaker 1: implementation task force to move beyond the study part. But yeah,
Speaker 1: these are not studies. These were implementation bills.
Speaker 2: They need vegoed. He approved a study. Yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 3: Love Wes, and so I've actually given Wes this criticism
Speaker 3: to his face and spoke to him about it. The
Speaker 3: first thing Wes should have done, I believe, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: is if you're going to veto a study, you put
Speaker 3: you couple that veto with a package full of equity
Speaker 3: proposals to move the state forward. That's whoever gave him
Speaker 3: advice to veto that because then he ended up doing
Speaker 3: something which I'm going to show the similarities between what
Speaker 3: West did and Governor Newsom did. Governor Newsom and West
Speaker 3: both tried to triangulate, which is something Bill Clinton made
Speaker 3: extremely popular. It's kind of going against your base, rising above,
Speaker 3: you know, having this belief that you're able to kind
Speaker 3: of rise above the fray on issues that are contentious
Speaker 3: such as this with some thought that is maybe beyond
Speaker 3: both Democrat and Republican thought processes. Right, It's like a
Speaker 3: triangulation strategy. And many times when that happens, four folk,
Speaker 3: brown folk, black folk are left behind. The second thing
Speaker 3: that Governor Newsom's having to deal with now is he's
Speaker 3: having to explain himself. And I think that Andrew can
Speaker 3: tell you the basic tenets of politics. If you're explaining,
Speaker 3: you're losing. So now he has to go out on
Speaker 3: the road and tell people why he did this, and
Speaker 3: tell me, you know, what have you done for this
Speaker 3: person or what have you done for that person. In
Speaker 3: Wes's case, when you talked to him about it, he said,
Speaker 3: let me tell you what we done for black people.
Speaker 3: And then he began to explain and have to rattle
Speaker 3: off and do all of those things. And if you're
Speaker 3: ever in a position where you have to do that,
Speaker 3: you're losing. I mean, there's a larger conversation about whether
Speaker 3: or not you will get reparations. I believe all four
Speaker 3: of us are four reparations of some shape form of fashion.
Speaker 3: The question is what do they look like? Right, and
Speaker 3: how do we get there? But I think Gavin Newsom
Speaker 3: just displayed to you that he is I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't think it's a knot, but he's very calculating. And
Speaker 3: in this calculation that he made the people that lose
Speaker 3: or people that look like us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was just going to appreciate that
Speaker 4: helping us to recall triangulation. And it is a strategy
Speaker 4: that sits at the feet of the foot of Bill Clinton.
Speaker 4: He did it on welfare reform, where he made black
Speaker 4: women the ire of everybody's existence. It happened on Crime
Speaker 4: and Justice and the hiring of one hundred thousand new
Speaker 4: police officers to hit American streets, and we know what
Speaker 4: the foil of that was. And I think what's happening
Speaker 4: now is democrats, certain democrats are deciding that it is
Speaker 4: an imperative in the democratic presidential primary, meaning it is
Speaker 4: a must have in the primary to have a Democrat
Speaker 4: who is willing to strike hard against the Democratic base
Speaker 4: in some form or another in order to win this
Speaker 4: movable middle of the electorate out there who will be
Speaker 4: kinder to them, who may give them their votes if
Speaker 4: they can show that they have the courage to strike
Speaker 4: out against a part of its base, and similar as
Speaker 4: it was in the early nineteen nineties, ninety two and
Speaker 4: ninety four and ninety six, black people are going to
Speaker 4: be at the intersection of this striking out reparations is
Speaker 4: I think just one form that we're going to see
Speaker 4: this triangulation take place. I think it's going to happen
Speaker 4: quite frankly on a number of our issues. And what
Speaker 4: they're going to try to communicate to voters is that, yes,
Speaker 4: I believe in the Democratic Coalition, but I'm willing to
Speaker 4: tell them hard truths too. I'm willing to go and
Speaker 4: look them directly in the face and tell them what's
Speaker 4: good for them and what's not good for them, and
Speaker 4: what's bad for their people, and that I'm not always
Speaker 4: going to be on their side, but I want all
Speaker 4: their votes, and I think we have to be really
Speaker 4: suspicious of this tactic. I think we have to call
Speaker 4: the tactic out when we see it. I don't think
Speaker 4: it's worth waiting. I don't think we got to wait
Speaker 4: our way through the presidential primary process to know that
Speaker 4: this is a key part or some folks are making
Speaker 4: this a key part of their strategy for winning the
Speaker 4: Democratic nomination. Whether Gavin Newsom believes this thing or not
Speaker 4: is a little concern to me. Whether the governor of
Speaker 4: Maryland believed what he was specially at the time, is
Speaker 4: a little concern for me. I think the calculation has
Speaker 4: been made that you have to show that you're willing
Speaker 4: to on the Democratic side. By the way, I'm not
Speaker 4: even saying this is for the replicants, because I don't
Speaker 4: believe this is a strategy on their side, But on
Speaker 4: the Democratic side, you have to be willing to strike
Speaker 4: out against a key element of your base, I eat
Speaker 4: black people, in order to show that you have the
Speaker 4: bona feeds to compete and to win the presidency and
Speaker 4: the twenty twenty what is it twenty eight cycle? And
Speaker 4: I just think when we see this thing where its head,
Speaker 4: we have to call it for what it is. We
Speaker 4: have to make a demand and then see if they're
Speaker 4: willing to then recapitulate back to our demand. And so far,
Speaker 4: somebody has determined that it's a winning strategy to take
Speaker 4: on reparations and to sideline this issue for black folks
Speaker 4: and be willing to do it in our face. And
Speaker 4: we got to be watchful of it.
Speaker 3: You gotta one of the things in your litany of
Speaker 3: things about Bill Clinton that I thought you were going
Speaker 3: to go to that I want the view is to
Speaker 3: remember some of them old enough to remember if you
Speaker 3: not google it. Sis a Soldier was another moment that
Speaker 3: was quite similar to that She was a foil that litany.
Speaker 3: But also and also listen, I love Wes. I hope
Speaker 3: he runs for president of the United States. But if
Speaker 3: we cannot be critical of people who look like us
Speaker 3: doing the same thing, I can't hold Gavin Newsom accountable.
Speaker 3: I already have enough reasons to dislike Gavin Newsom because
Speaker 3: he is the most handsome person and the smartest person
Speaker 3: in the room. Always all you have to do is
Speaker 3: ask him, right. But I do think that that lack
Speaker 3: of self awareness shone through in the politics of the day.
Speaker 3: He employs the hug of black woman thing which I hate,
Speaker 3: which is like every time he goes to a place,
Speaker 3: he finds an old black woman and he hugs it
Speaker 3: for the camera, and that's like the front page of
Speaker 3: the Florence newspaper or whatever. So there are a lot
Speaker 3: of nuances I dislike, but the triangulation that we're seeing
Speaker 3: and it just it put me in that mind frame.
Speaker 3: It's like whenever you go through a period of triangulation
Speaker 3: with your elected officials. I mean, Barack Obama did some
Speaker 3: of it. We'ress for office. It wasn't to that ext
Speaker 3: Black folk, black folk, poor people are in a cross
Speaker 3: hairs in that.
Speaker 4: Order, one and the same in many instances.
Speaker 2: Okay, well all right, if you feel complete, oh car.
Speaker 7: Because I'm excited to get to calls to action because
Speaker 7: I have a good call to action right on the
Speaker 7: other side of this break, we'll get into calls to action.
Speaker 2: There is no Native lamppod show without.
Speaker 3: Who cares about truth?
Speaker 9: When the last morning seen it?
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 7: My call to action this week, I'm thrilled is for
Speaker 7: a friend and someone I really look up to, and
Speaker 7: that's doctor Sharon Malone. She is a doctor gynecologist and
Speaker 7: she just launches the podcast as we called the Second Opinion.
Speaker 7: She is a part of the Michelle Obama crew. She's
Speaker 7: one of Michelle Obama's best friends. And you may have
Speaker 7: seen her on Missus Obama's podcast, or you may have
Speaker 7: seen her on Oprah. But I'm thrilled because I had
Speaker 7: her on my show when I had the show at MSNBC,
Speaker 7: and how that happened. I was literally walking in city Center.
Speaker 7: You guys are familiar with city Center, and she came
Speaker 7: up to me and she was like, you know, you're
Speaker 7: in perimenopause.
Speaker 6: And I'm like, oh, hello, doctor Sharon L.
Speaker 2: Now are you?
Speaker 7: And I've been thrilled to be able to text her
Speaker 7: all of my questions, and for women on our audience,
Speaker 7: if you're in your thirties and up, you know each decade,
Speaker 7: our body goes through changes as we age, and so
Speaker 7: I've been able to text her all of my questions
Speaker 7: everything I'm going through. Angela and I go to Ken
Speaker 7: Blackwell's conference and she always hosts a session there where
Speaker 7: it's literally just grown women Speak, which is what her
Speaker 7: book is called. And so I'm thrilled that she's launching
Speaker 7: this podcast, so now all of you can listen to
Speaker 7: her and hopefully. I don't know what the profile will be,
Speaker 7: but she'll take a fewer questions, I hope, but I've
Speaker 7: asked her more than one personal question. So please check
Speaker 7: out the Second Opinion podcast. I think it will be
Speaker 7: just on YouTube, and I know I plan on being
Speaker 7: a guest on there, and I don't know if you
Speaker 7: boys will, but maybe Angela or somebody. It'll probably mostly
Speaker 7: be women, I imagine guests on the show. So that's
Speaker 7: my call to action. Check out doctor Malone.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 7: She's also the wife of a former Attorney General, Air Colder,
Speaker 7: speaking of voting rights.
Speaker 2: Amazing, Yes, amazing, Andrew.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to take this listener question as part
Speaker 4: of my day. Can we get to question native Land?
Speaker 5: So grateful for y'all, especially happy to see Tiffany cross
Speaker 5: Land in a good place. They used to follow her
Speaker 5: on MSNBC, as well as Joy Reid. I no longer
Speaker 5: watch MSNBC since they ditched so many journalists of color
Speaker 5: Katie Fang, Mediissan. But that's not my question. My question
Speaker 5: concerns the no Kings protests past and present. I am
Speaker 5: part of the ninety two percent. My mother was an
Speaker 5: activist in this civil rights era, so resistance is in
Speaker 5: my DNA, and I wonder as far as the no
Speaker 5: Kings protests, should we be involved, should we be doing
Speaker 5: more as a community, should we be doing more, and
Speaker 5: what that more might look like. And I'm wondering what
Speaker 5: your thoughts are on this.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 4: I'll welcome quick feedback from each of you, but I'll
Speaker 4: just say from my two cents, we don't have to
Speaker 4: make it too terribly complicated. The the the enemy has
Speaker 4: made him so very very clear on the other side here,
Speaker 4: and I just think we have to be whatever your
Speaker 4: mental personal health capacity can bear, can stand.
Speaker 3: We have to cover the zone.
Speaker 4: We have to be everywhere, anywhere, all the time when possible,
Speaker 4: to push back and defend for ourselves. They've they've thrown
Speaker 4: the road map out. They they are flooding the zone,
Speaker 4: and they want to keep us dizzy, so dizzy that
Speaker 4: we stay unengaged and uninvolved. And I just think if
Speaker 4: you find something that speaks to you and that your heart,
Speaker 4: mind and spirit is okay to give that you give
Speaker 4: of your time, your energy or effort to fight back
Speaker 4: against against this current formation of the enemy. I don't
Speaker 4: know if you all have deep thoughts on.
Speaker 6: Keep going to love. That's all I want to say.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're going to keep going with calls to action.
Speaker 3: Bakari, Yeah, I mean my call action is around de'angelo
Speaker 3: and the black men in particular who listen to the show.
Speaker 3: There a lot of us. Make sure you're getting your
Speaker 3: check ups, go to the doctor, listen to your body,
Speaker 3: Listen to your wife, your girlfriend. They're with you every day.
Speaker 3: You know, they know when things aren't going right. You know,
Speaker 3: if you if you still ain't getting your morning wood
Speaker 3: in the morning or something like that. Make sure that
Speaker 3: your your heart is pumping the way it should, and
Speaker 3: make sure your blood is flowing the way it should,
Speaker 3: and go see the doctor. Don't wait until your emergency room.
Speaker 3: And I tried to go and get my and do
Speaker 3: a colonoscopy and all those other things, and they told
Speaker 3: me I was too young, and so I was like,
Speaker 3: I'll pay out of pocket, you know, let me just
Speaker 3: let me just get I want the whole work up,
Speaker 3: head from the root to the tutor, as we say
Speaker 3: in South Carolina. But I encourage everybody to go out
Speaker 3: there and listen to your body, get checked up. To
Speaker 3: black men, all of us for that matter, know somebody
Speaker 3: know another young black man who died too early. DiAngelo
Speaker 3: is another example of that. Again, rest in peace, condolences
Speaker 3: to his family.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Bakari. Mine is simple.
Speaker 1: I want you all to pay attention to what's happening
Speaker 1: this sixtieth anniversary of the Voting Rights Act. We are
Speaker 1: hanging on by a thread. Andrew and I interviewed with
Speaker 1: Janay Nelson right on the other side of her oral
Speaker 1: arguments at the Supreme Court, and I also want you
Speaker 1: all to really go back and listen to those oral arguments.
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas basically indicates that he desires for Section two
Speaker 1: to also be gutted out of the Voting Rights Act.
Speaker 1: So please go back and listen to what Clarence is
Speaker 1: versus Katanji because there is a difference. And on that
Speaker 1: helpful note, I would to encourage you all to remember
Speaker 1: that all skin folk ain't kim folk. As always, we
Speaker 1: want to remind everyone to leave us a review and
Speaker 1: subscribe to Native lamppod. We're available on all podcasts, platforms
Speaker 1: and YouTube. If you're looking for more shows like ours,
Speaker 1: check out the other shows on our reasent Choice Media network.
Speaker 1: It's Politics with Jamel Hill off the Cup with se
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Speaker 1: de Barasso. Be sure to give those a follow, and
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Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 2: Y'all.
Speaker 1: We also have substack now, so check us out there
Speaker 1: make sure you subscribe. We are Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross,
Speaker 1: Andrew Gillup and Bacari Sellers. Welcome home, y'all, there are
Speaker 1: three hundred and eighty three days until midterm elections.
Speaker 9: Welcome home to the Native Landing on the podcast based
Speaker 9: Tessa for Greatness sixteen minutes.
Speaker 8: It's so hit, not too.
Speaker 9: Long for the great shift, high level combo politics in
Speaker 9: a way that you could taste it then digest it.
Speaker 9: Politics touches you even if you.
Speaker 8: Don't touch it. So get invested.
Speaker 10: Cross the t's and.
Speaker 9: Doctor ods kill them back to get them staying on
Speaker 9: benness with ri You could have been anywhere, but you
Speaker 9: trust us. Native lad podcast, the brand that you can trust.
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