Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two Podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth.
Speaker 2: Lazar, Hello, everybody nailed it, joined us always buy our Bara.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bar You want to
Speaker 1: talk about uncharted territory? You want to talk about the
Speaker 1: Great Unknown? Yeah, New England Patriots fans, We're in it.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Great Unknown.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Great Unknown. As sorry, I am Evan Lazar,
Speaker 2: Alex Barth. Patriots Catch twenty two. Just a weird, weird
Speaker 2: day Yesterday, Alex. Weird day, weird week, weird week, weird tie.
Speaker 2: It hasn't really we haven't been on the air on
Speaker 2: this particular show since the news broke that the Patriots
Speaker 2: are higher Drod Mayo. I think we were on when
Speaker 2: when they mutually parted ways is the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were on that afternoon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were on that afternoon for that, and
Speaker 2: but we haven't been on since they named Gerrod Mayo
Speaker 2: as the head coach. So we both have opinions on that.
Speaker 2: But I want to start with yesterday because I feel
Speaker 2: like everybody, you know, it's kind of a good thing.
Speaker 2: I guess that we weren't on right away because I've
Speaker 2: it's allowed it to like sort of seep in, right.
Speaker 2: You know, I think immediate reaction shows are always tough
Speaker 2: because we're all just trying to figure out what the
Speaker 2: heck is going on. Now we've had some time to
Speaker 2: let the dust settle, to let this soak in. That
Speaker 2: Gerd Mayo is the head coach of the team. And
Speaker 2: my my takeaway from yesterday, First of all, if you
Speaker 2: were expecting some whiteboard PowerPoint presentation of how Girard Mayo
Speaker 2: was going to fix the New England Patriots yesterday, I
Speaker 2: understand that all of us, so Alex and I included,
Speaker 2: are new to this whole introductory press conference thing when
Speaker 2: it comes to a head coach. But that's not how
Speaker 2: those things work. Okay, Like they talking and coach speak,
Speaker 2: owners speak, big picture, very very You're not gonna get
Speaker 2: a ton of information out of those types of things.
Speaker 2: And if that was your expectation that they were going
Speaker 2: to tell you who the offensive coordinator was going to
Speaker 2: be and who was going to have final say in
Speaker 2: the personnel decisions, and this that the other thing, and
Speaker 2: this was not the the environment for that. With that
Speaker 2: being said, you study Shakespeare at all, as a kid,
Speaker 2: don't you know, Like I wasn't like a huge Shakespeare guy,
Speaker 2: but the one, the one.
Speaker 1: Really you struck me. He's quite the poet of it.
Speaker 2: No, well Shakespeare, he's not a poet. Shakespeare, I'm not
Speaker 2: a big shit there's there's not.
Speaker 1: All about that. Do you think I just said I
Speaker 1: don't remember anything about Shakespeare from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Shakespeare wrote plays out.
Speaker 1: William Shakespeare was an English playwright, poet, and actor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not calling him a boom all right, fine, just
Speaker 1: like his official biography disagrees on Google.
Speaker 2: Yeah that Wikipedia real good source. Anyways, this is not
Speaker 2: the point. It's not the like uh Britannic or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is the bit like the big book, the one
Speaker 2: that has all the big book with all the facts. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: let me let me finish my nal.
Speaker 1: Shakespeare X William Evan Lazar, William Shakespeare. I wasn't grinding
Speaker 1: tape and William Shakespeare.
Speaker 2: Can you just let me finish the point?
Speaker 1: Geez done, go ahead.
Speaker 2: So I I I'm not a big Shakespeare guy. But
Speaker 2: but Julius Caesar was like the one guy that fascinated me.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a real guy and not just like something.
Speaker 2: Shakespeare, But I I found I discovered Julius Caesar from Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: I discovered him from salads.
Speaker 2: Oh god, okay, So I I discovered him. I'm into
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's like the devil on the shoulder
Speaker 2: and in me right that I'm into, like you know,
Speaker 2: tyrants and warlords and things like that. It interests me, okay.
Speaker 2: And so I look into Caesar a little bit figure out,
Speaker 2: and you're not like the Gladiator version, like the actual
Speaker 2: versions of what went down and things like that. And
Speaker 2: I can't help but thinking that in this situation, Bill
Speaker 2: Belichick was Julius Caesar. We walked into that GP Atrium,
Speaker 2: very nice space, by the way, very nice space, company man,
Speaker 2: very nice space. And the only person that had anything
Speaker 2: to do with the twenty twenty three Patriots that wasn't
Speaker 2: in the room was Bill Belichick. You had, the front
Speaker 2: office was all there, Drod Mayo's all there, ownerships there,
Speaker 2: everybody is there except Bill. And we were told, and
Speaker 2: I think this did happen, that there was a autopsy
Speaker 2: done about football operations from basically post Germany on, like
Speaker 2: after the Germany game on of what went wrong? How
Speaker 2: did we get here?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: What are the biggest issues with the team? That how
Speaker 2: are we four and thirteen? Right? And this autopsy went
Speaker 2: on and the conclusion and the boss man Fred always says,
Speaker 2: you know, look at what they do, not what they say. Right,
Speaker 2: the conclusion was Bill was the problem. And I don't
Speaker 2: know how you can really take it from any place
Speaker 2: else other than that. Well, and I used the Caesar
Speaker 2: comp because at two Jerrod right like it just it
Speaker 2: feels to me like Bill's a problem. Now with that
Speaker 2: being said, they know a lot more about the situation
Speaker 2: than we do. When I say they, I mean mister
Speaker 2: Kraft and people craft in the buildings and actually talk
Speaker 2: to these people and things like that. But we talked
Speaker 2: about this last night off the air a little bit.
Speaker 2: Bill was the fall guy, and it's interesting to me
Speaker 2: that that's how it went down, because that doesn't always
Speaker 2: happen in life, right, Like if you come at the King,
Speaker 2: you best not miss right right well, And that's how
Speaker 2: this all went down. And I can't help but think
Speaker 2: that when macro and Elliott Wolfe and Cameron Williams and
Speaker 2: the entire front office walks in and Gerrodd's up on
Speaker 2: the stage and ownerships here it's like, okay, so you
Speaker 2: really thought that the biggest problem was built, so you
Speaker 2: cut the head off at the snake, head of the
Speaker 2: snake off, right, and now everything's going to be different.
Speaker 2: And I there's reasons to believe that. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: it as in like they're wrong. I'm just saying that's
Speaker 2: what they're telling us, what their actions is what they
Speaker 2: feel was the case.
Speaker 1: So I want to get into things will be different thing,
Speaker 1: because I think that was a big theme for me
Speaker 1: yesterday on your take. Look, they went four and thirteen.
Speaker 1: Something clearly wasn't working. Everybody knew that there was always
Speaker 1: going to be a fall guy or fall guys. We
Speaker 1: had conversations off the air, Evan about who we thought
Speaker 1: that would be. I don't think at one point we
Speaker 1: put Bill as the fall guy. And to what you're saying,
Speaker 1: either they thought that or that's what they want to
Speaker 1: that's what that's how they want to present it, even
Speaker 1: if it wasn't true. And at a certain point you're
Speaker 1: splitting hairs there, but they are, whether it's because they
Speaker 1: believe it or whether it's because it's a convenient narrative
Speaker 1: because he's not here anymore. They're putting it on Bill.
Speaker 1: They're one putting it on Bill, and it's it's an
Speaker 1: interesting route to take. Man, it's a very interesting route
Speaker 1: to take because if it doesn't work out, I mean,
Speaker 1: people are already frustrated. Now you move on from the
Speaker 1: and Robert did call him the greatest coach of all
Speaker 1: time here say it wasn't in the other week, Like
Speaker 1: it's not about it wasn't exactly a roast of Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1: But you know, if it doesn't go great, it looks
Speaker 1: like he kicked the greatest coach of all time out
Speaker 1: the door, and he gave him, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: extra kicks as he was going. If it does work,
Speaker 1: Robert Craft looks like a genius. Rights like a massive,
Speaker 1: massive genius.
Speaker 2: So the buzzwords that we heard yesterday are all the
Speaker 2: words that we we thought we would hear. I think,
Speaker 2: you know, collaboration, yeah, building relationships with this generation, repairingship
Speaker 2: and repairing other relationships.
Speaker 1: Echo chambers, right, not being an echo chamber.
Speaker 2: So I think the biggest thing that I took away
Speaker 2: from that all of that was that the echo chamber
Speaker 2: thing I think was big. I think that a lot
Speaker 2: of people within the organization feel that they couldn't speak
Speaker 2: their mind or their mind wasn't hurt or whatever the
Speaker 2: case may be. And the other thing was the relationships
Speaker 2: with the current generation of players, Like, how do you
Speaker 2: not take that as a shot across the bow of
Speaker 2: the seventy one year old coach that you just walked.
Speaker 1: On who By the way, Ian rapporters reporting will have
Speaker 1: a second interview with the Falcons this weekend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can get to that. That seems like the
Speaker 2: only chair at this point left for Bill Belichick. And
Speaker 2: the last one was it does feel like they want
Speaker 2: to kind of innovate the way that they do things
Speaker 2: in the front office. And this is sort of a
Speaker 2: bigger thing that I want to unpack in terms of
Speaker 2: what's going on with the front office. But those three
Speaker 2: things really line up to culture, Like they feel like
Speaker 2: the culture needed to change. They feel like the today's
Speaker 2: generation of athlete doesn't respond to the culture that Bill
Speaker 2: Belichick laid out. You know, the hard nose. I hate
Speaker 2: to call it militaristic because it's that I don't like
Speaker 2: using comparing things to the military, but you know that
Speaker 2: sort of of look and we'll see, like we'll see
Speaker 2: if this is the right approach. I liked Drawd a lot.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of players we spoke to on
Speaker 2: the record, Juwan Bentley, Jonathan Jones yesterday, I spoke to
Speaker 2: some of the guys off to the side as well
Speaker 2: that were there, and everybody's really excited. You know. The
Speaker 2: word Juwan Bentley used multiple times as hype, like I'm
Speaker 2: hype for this. The right guy got the job. I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of energy in that room yesterday
Speaker 2: about this move and about Girod Mayo taking over. But
Speaker 2: the people around Girod Mayo are going to be just
Speaker 2: as important as his ability to be a head coach.
Speaker 2: Like who's his offensive coordinator? We still don't know right
Speaker 2: who's his defensive coordinator. We still don't know who's the
Speaker 2: one that has final say in the front office. We
Speaker 2: still don't know who's actually calling the shots behind the
Speaker 2: scenes for this football team right now, we really don't know.
Speaker 2: And that's going to ultimately decide the fate of Girod
Speaker 2: Mayo's regime as the Patriots head coach is all of
Speaker 2: those other people around him, And then probably most importantly
Speaker 2: out of all those things is obviously the quarterback and
Speaker 2: Girod Mayo had an interview yesterday with Steve Burton. I
Speaker 2: know some people have taken it differently than me personally.
Speaker 2: When he says that he's going to take a player
Speaker 2: at the most important position, you put the pieces together.
Speaker 2: I don't know how else to put those pieces together
Speaker 2: other than they're taking a quarterback at three overall. But
Speaker 2: we'll get to that as well. Eight five to five,
Speaker 2: Pats five hundred is the phone number. Radio at Patriots
Speaker 2: dot com is the email address. This show is always
Speaker 2: about like the nitty gritty x's and o's of this
Speaker 2: football team. So I kind of I hate this type
Speaker 2: of stuff, I really do. I hate the politics, the
Speaker 2: palace coups like I know that there's a lot of
Speaker 2: people that eat that stuff up. I wish that we
Speaker 2: could be talking about draft prospects and offseasons. So if
Speaker 2: you want to get into that as well, you can
Speaker 2: give us a call and we'll certainly talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about that. But I want to say something that's
Speaker 2: gonna that's gonna piss you off, Alex about about the
Speaker 2: front office. And I want to say this, and then
Speaker 2: we'll start taking some calls and whatnot. But the thing
Speaker 2: that I think is gonna piss you off about the
Speaker 2: front office. Uh, from everything that I've gathered and put together,
Speaker 2: I think that the front office feels like the Patriots
Speaker 2: are dinosaurs with the way that they scout players. They
Speaker 2: feel like Bill prioritized I test connections in the college
Speaker 2: football world, yeah, which is a big one, and old
Speaker 2: school Stopwatch Pro Day combine numbers, interviews, that sort of stuff,
Speaker 2: and the way of the world now is different. The
Speaker 2: I'm not going to use the A word because that's
Speaker 2: really going to piss you off. Player tracking data.
Speaker 1: I don't know how many times I'll tell you this,
Speaker 1: I have no problem with, Like x player runs twenty
Speaker 1: two miles an hour. That's a tangible number. I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that. Okay, just don't start getting me things over
Speaker 1: expected or just random combinations of four letters that don't
Speaker 1: actually mean anything.
Speaker 2: So the Patriots analytics department, Yes, there I said the
Speaker 2: magic word. The Patriots analytics department, compared to the other
Speaker 2: teams that are now succeeding at a high level in
Speaker 2: the NFL, is a minuscule in terms of size, right,
Speaker 2: like they It's tiny, and not only is it not
Speaker 2: a big group of people, that are actually running analytics
Speaker 2: for this football team. They were not very heard by
Speaker 2: the guy making the final say so, I think in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, the Patriots front office feels that
Speaker 2: they are going to update, innovate whatever you want to
Speaker 2: use their scouting methods. And I saw a clip the
Speaker 2: other day. I almost shared it, but not better of it.
Speaker 2: Uh this the Los Angeles Rams were in their their
Speaker 2: draft room talking about Puka Nakua before they were about
Speaker 2: to make the pick, and less Need, their general manager,
Speaker 2: was talking to Sean McVay and and Sean McVay was
Speaker 2: talking about it like, oh, we can use them like
Speaker 2: this that the other you know, the exit and O
Speaker 2: is the eye test, right, and less Need was saying
Speaker 2: that if you sort Puku Nakua among the wide receivers
Speaker 2: in this draft by actual game speed, right, We're talking
Speaker 2: like next gen player tracking data, not what he ran
Speaker 2: in the forty yard dash at his pro day, but
Speaker 2: actual in game with pads on guys chasing him game speed.
Speaker 2: That Puku Nakua was one of the fastest receivers in
Speaker 2: this class in actual gameplay. And you see what happened.
Speaker 2: You know, he had one of the best rookie seasons
Speaker 2: for a wide receiver in the history of the NFL.
Speaker 2: So that's just one example, but I think that's a
Speaker 2: big direction that this team is going to try to
Speaker 2: go in as well. And I think drawd Mayo's expertise,
Speaker 2: his business background at Optum, you know, things like that,
Speaker 2: I think that he's into that sort of thing as well. So,
Speaker 2: for better or worse, whether you like it or not,
Speaker 2: the analytics I think are going to be a bigger
Speaker 2: part of their scouting portfolio moving forward. There's always going
Speaker 2: to be a place in both you and I believe strongly, Yeah,
Speaker 2: in the eye test, Like you still have to watch
Speaker 2: these guys on film. We're not talking that they're going
Speaker 2: to draft people off hapreadraft good players, but they I
Speaker 2: think what the goal and let me have you.
Speaker 1: Got to talk to them and make sure and Mayo
Speaker 1: talked about this Tyesday, you're drafting good people too, Like
Speaker 1: that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2: I think the goal of this is, though, is that
Speaker 2: they're gonna be drafting good football players based off of
Speaker 2: actual football, tangible football evidence, and not what he runs
Speaker 2: in a forty and a spandexit at the.
Speaker 1: Combine that and that's why what I know, you thought
Speaker 1: you're gonna piss me off. That's why it doesn't because
Speaker 1: you use that word tangible. Yeah, it registers that a
Speaker 1: guy runs you know this many miles an hour or
Speaker 1: you know acceleration. How you know, how quickly does he
Speaker 1: get up to top speed? I would even argue more, Evan.
Speaker 1: You know my thing about the forty that nobody knows
Speaker 1: the practical application of the forty. The whole reason the
Speaker 1: forty was added was because at the time, the average
Speaker 1: punt traveled forty yards and they wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: that you could get down the field in time to
Speaker 1: cover a punt. That's why it's a fort Like why
Speaker 1: not a thirty yard dash? Why not a fifty yard dash?
Speaker 1: Why is it that? That's what the whole point of
Speaker 1: that is. See, you can go cover a punt, right,
Speaker 1: that's it. So, yes, doesn't measure how fast a player is.
Speaker 1: There's numbers within that, Evan, I know you're big on this.
Speaker 1: The ten yard splits, yeah, right, where burst off the
Speaker 1: line is? Right? How fast you get out of your stands?
Speaker 1: How fast you really get going for a linement? Alignment?
Speaker 1: Might run like a five to one, but if his
Speaker 1: first ten second is pretty good, it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: that guy's explosive getting out of his stance, which is
Speaker 1: what you want. I've always wanted them to run the
Speaker 1: forty out of three point stance, not the sprinter stance,
Speaker 1: because it's more relevant. But I have no problem with
Speaker 1: tangible information. Don't give me expected over this or dvoa that.
Speaker 1: If we're talking. If we're talking is like yards, Look
Speaker 1: it's a result. Look, it's not like we're not projecting forward.
Speaker 1: We're talking about a stat that is that is tangible.
Speaker 1: I don't know because what's the formula.
Speaker 2: Oh you have to scaring. Chat's my point.
Speaker 1: And look, Aaron shatz sharre in high school grads. So
Speaker 1: I don't want to knock them. I don't, and there's
Speaker 1: certainly a place for that for certain people. I need
Speaker 1: to understand what I'm looking at. I need to know
Speaker 1: what's behind it. Miles per hour. My simple brain can
Speaker 1: grasp that. Okay, big man, run fast, great good. I
Speaker 1: when I when I, when I covered football in college.
Speaker 1: There's a coach we asked him one time, Uh, he
Speaker 1: had a really good tight end, and we were like,
Speaker 1: what makes this tight end so good? And he said,
Speaker 1: he's a big guy that can run fast. That's usually
Speaker 1: a good tight end. And I'm like, all right, I
Speaker 1: can understand that big man that run fast. That was
Speaker 1: in Gronk's pride too.
Speaker 2: I'm right now, I think like big man run fast
Speaker 2: is where the front office thinks that the dinosaurs are
Speaker 2: right like that?
Speaker 1: Like, so well, I feel like that's like the part
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I don't think it's one or the other.
Speaker 1: I think big man run fast forty yard dash or
Speaker 1: big man run fast, you know, next gen tracking data.
Speaker 2: I guess it depends on what position you play.
Speaker 1: But that's but that's kind of my point is are
Speaker 1: we actually because.
Speaker 2: If you're like DK Metcalf, big man run fast, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, he's got a lot of
Speaker 2: other things that are good about his game. But that's
Speaker 2: that's the crux of what makes him different is that
Speaker 2: he's six and can run a four to three, right.
Speaker 1: Right, So I get that. That's just my point. It's
Speaker 1: like if so it wasn't to say, like, all right,
Speaker 1: just oh hey, this guy looks fast on tape. He's good.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, if if you want to track player
Speaker 1: speed through next Gen Stats compare with I don't know,
Speaker 1: do they use next Gen stats for college or whatever
Speaker 1: they used to get mom that they outsource it? Okay,
Speaker 1: whatever does it? If you want to use miles Prower
Speaker 1: rather than the forty yard dash to track the fastest players,
Speaker 1: I have no I'm all in on that. I have
Speaker 1: no problem with that because you're actually gaining tangible information.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And they also will track like, for example, like
Speaker 2: a linebacker, like how fast is his closing speed?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, I know there's a lot of things like.
Speaker 2: That from where he is to the ball.
Speaker 1: And that's that thing where like what I'm big on
Speaker 1: is see it on tape and make sure it matches. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: use that to confirm what you see on the tape.
Speaker 1: The tape should still be king. But it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy looks very quick twitch. Do the numbers back
Speaker 1: it up or not? He just playing a bunch of
Speaker 1: slow apart right.
Speaker 2: And teams, you know, a lot of teams will also
Speaker 2: reverse it right where they'll say they'll have these analytics houses,
Speaker 2: they'll bring them these numbers and they'll say, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: Puka Nakua ran twenty one miles an hour. Maybe we
Speaker 2: should pull up this guy's tape and see what it
Speaker 2: looks like to the eye test on film. I think
Speaker 2: that at the end of the day, the whole point
Speaker 2: of all of this is just that they feel as
Speaker 2: though the only way to move forward was to cut
Speaker 2: Bill out, and Bill not necessarily that Bill I think
Speaker 2: Bill was the problem is probably the wrong way to
Speaker 2: put it. It's more like Bill was preventing younger, innovative
Speaker 2: type of minds in the organization from having a voice
Speaker 2: and having a say and having an ability to push
Speaker 2: things forward. And the Atlanta Falcons sounds like they're pretty
Speaker 2: much gonna hire Bill Belichick. I think somebody reported, I
Speaker 2: don't know who it was, one of the insiders had
Speaker 2: reported that the NFL would prefer teams to wait until
Speaker 2: after the divisional round because that's technically when you can
Speaker 2: start interviewing people in person to actually announce these hires.
Speaker 2: So my guess is that we're gonna hear early and
Speaker 2: draw Maya was promoted from within, so that's a different, different,
Speaker 2: different thing. I'm talking about external hires. So my guess
Speaker 2: is that early next week we're gonna start hearing a
Speaker 2: lot of jobs being filled across the NFL. And this
Speaker 2: news about Bill getting a second interview in Atlanta would
Speaker 2: tell me that that this is probably finalizing some details
Speaker 2: about how this is gonna look with the Falcons. So
Speaker 2: interesting interesting stuff yesterday, but I just couldn't help. The
Speaker 2: biggest takeaway couldn't help but look around and be like,
Speaker 2: he's the only one that's not here, right, you know,
Speaker 2: like the coaching staff wasn't there, but it's not Girod's
Speaker 2: coaching staff.
Speaker 1: Some of them are.
Speaker 2: DeMarcus Covington was. I think he was the only one
Speaker 2: I saw that.
Speaker 1: Was Oh, they were like front office guys there. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you might have been the only coach, which I mean
Speaker 1: I've said like I'd love for him to step in
Speaker 1: his DC. So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know where their head that is at with that.
Speaker 2: The coaching staff is an interesting one. I don't think
Speaker 2: anybody uh knows exactly what's going to happen with all
Speaker 2: of that, even people in the building.
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty safe to say it's going to
Speaker 1: be a new group. You're not interviewing potential special teams
Speaker 1: coordinators to keep the guys you have, I think.
Speaker 2: On special teams, I agree on defense, there is there
Speaker 2: is Rooney Rule implications when it comes to UH defensive
Speaker 2: coordinator and offense.
Speaker 1: So I couldn't find that for some reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you need you have to do one instead of two.
Speaker 2: It's two for head coaches. It's one for offensive and
Speaker 2: for coordinator.
Speaker 1: So really hard to find, like the actual written text
Speaker 1: of the R.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you want to, for example, for the Patriots,
Speaker 2: if they want to give Steve Belichick the official title
Speaker 2: of defensive coordinator, then they have to interview external minority
Speaker 2: candidates as well, because he's not technically the defensive coordinator
Speaker 2: now right, so you're promoting him.
Speaker 1: And it is external candidates too. I've seen some people
Speaker 1: miss that, like it's you can't, right.
Speaker 2: You can't interview de Marcus Comington for the job.
Speaker 1: I mean you can't, but it doesn't count for the room.
Speaker 1: You can't and you should let me add that.
Speaker 2: But all right, let's take some of these phone calls.
Speaker 2: People are already calling in. Tucker is in Richmond, what's up? Tucker?
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, thanks for taking the call. Listen to your
Speaker 3: show every week, but most of the time it's the recording,
Speaker 3: so I can't really ever call in. But I really
Speaker 3: like it and keeping the really enjoyed during the season.
Speaker 3: But the thing I wanted to touch on and I
Speaker 3: going back a little bit We've all been talking about,
Speaker 3: but I don't think I've heard either of you kind
Speaker 3: of give your take on the workers sham piece that
Speaker 3: came out from ESPN. I guess that was last week.
Speaker 3: I know that was probably mostly from Bill's camp, so
Speaker 3: trying to take it with a grain of salt, but
Speaker 3: kind of made me feel a little bit more sympathetic
Speaker 3: for just with how kind of the relationship that deteriorated
Speaker 3: with the Crafts and makes me kind of I want
Speaker 3: to root for him to have more success than the
Speaker 3: than the Patriots do for the next year or two,
Speaker 3: just to kind of show that, you know, maybe he
Speaker 3: was right and there wrong, but I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I've always been kind of in Bill's camp through all
Speaker 3: of this, So curiser Al thought, thanks, I'll take it offline, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Thanks, Tucker. Yeah, I definitely won't be going that far.
Speaker 2: I mean, I hope I wish Bill success where he
Speaker 2: else you go. You know, I'm saying with Brady right
Speaker 2: in Tampa Bay, I wouldn't. I'm going to be honest,
Speaker 2: like when Brady won with the Buccaneers in Tampa Bay,
Speaker 2: It's done like that was not I was not all
Speaker 2: like happy for him, like, oh, let's go down to
Speaker 2: Tampa and go to the parade. Like no, I was
Speaker 2: that that did not feel good.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was happy. It was a weird emotion.
Speaker 1: I can't really describe I was.
Speaker 2: I did not did not like that at all, because
Speaker 2: it's just not good for many direction, right, Like he
Speaker 2: wins someplace else, he could have stayed here.
Speaker 1: I mean, I like, and I was happy for Tom
Speaker 1: Brady that he got to accomplish. But you know what
Speaker 1: it was, you know what was weird about it? You
Speaker 1: know what? So I went in thinking I didn't want
Speaker 1: Brady to win, and then pregame, one of the pregame
Speaker 1: shows said something about his mom throughout that season break
Speaker 1: Brady's mom Yeah, would still say like when they were
Speaker 1: on the phone, would still say go Patriots yea. And
Speaker 1: he would do it too. And that was some weird
Speaker 1: sort of closure for me. And at that point I
Speaker 1: was like, I would ever go win it.
Speaker 2: So the the Wickersham piece and all this stuff about
Speaker 2: the strays that are being thrown back and forth, I
Speaker 2: think The one thing I would say about that is that,
Speaker 2: in my mind, the job of an owner, the role
Speaker 2: of an owner is to be the voice of reason
Speaker 2: to save people from themselves, especially people like Bill who
Speaker 2: are really hard to check in terms of power. Right, Like,
Speaker 2: no nobody is gonna go up to Bill in this
Speaker 2: organization other than Robert Kraft and say, Matt Patricia is
Speaker 2: not an offensive coordinator. What the heck are we doing?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like, that's not gonna necessarily happen, and it's.
Speaker 1: Not anybody else's job to do that, right.
Speaker 2: And that's the in my mind, that's the job of
Speaker 2: an owner is to step in when things are are
Speaker 2: like that are happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I agree with Bill on if
Speaker 2: that if this is truly Bill's stanton and he's truly
Speaker 2: holding these things against Robert h The one thing I
Speaker 2: will agree with Bill on naming in writing Gerrod Mayo
Speaker 2: the successor a year before he was or even two
Speaker 2: years before, according to some reporting, before he was supposed
Speaker 2: to take over the job, was making Bill lame duck.
Speaker 1: But wasn't the reporting from Bill that he was okay
Speaker 1: with that? That it was in Bill's contract too, that
Speaker 1: there's the Wickersham one. They were like two from Breer,
Speaker 1: there was the Herald one. I'm honestly losing track and
Speaker 1: what was from what?
Speaker 2: So my point being is that you can definitely see
Speaker 2: how especially once word and word always gets out, right
Speaker 2: like people always find out, and especially once the word
Speaker 2: starts get out that Girod Mayo has it written in
Speaker 2: his contract that he's the heir apparent to Bill Belichick.
Speaker 2: That just creates a dysfunctional environment, right Like, there's gonna
Speaker 2: be people that are gonna be team Girod. There's gonna
Speaker 2: be people that are team Bill. There's gonna be people
Speaker 2: that are gonna tell Greg Badard that he's rubbing people
Speaker 2: the wrong way Girod, right like, you know that all
Speaker 2: of that now, in hindsight makes so much more sense
Speaker 2: because he was a made man, Drawd Mayo, and he
Speaker 2: knew it. And it wasn't just a vocal promise like
Speaker 2: I think it was with Josh mcdarid. This was a true,
Speaker 2: written in contract language, you are the next head coach
Speaker 2: of the New England Patriots if and when Bill Belichick
Speaker 2: is gone. And that, to me, I think was not
Speaker 2: necessarily malicious or on purpose, but I think, in hindsight,
Speaker 2: having the twenty twenty three coaching staff function properly with
Speaker 2: that hanging over everybody's head probably was not the move.
Speaker 1: We talked to it. I don't know if it's on
Speaker 1: the show I talked about it. I think it was
Speaker 1: on the show last week. Something I've learned in all
Speaker 1: of this is Robert Kraft is an optimist. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a bad thing. Like I think that's
Speaker 1: a good trait. But if things had gone according to
Speaker 1: plan again, it looks brilliant. You know, Bill finishes it out,
Speaker 1: Girod Mayo gets to learn under him. It's this great
Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship and then boom, you hand the thing off
Speaker 1: clean baton pass, really no hiccup. Yeah, it obviously didn't
Speaker 1: work out like that, and because it didn't, the idea
Speaker 1: looks somewhat worse. And I think there's been some other
Speaker 1: instances too, where you've seen the Patriots do things were like,
Speaker 1: if this works out, it's gonna be great. And I
Speaker 1: think Robert Craft truly believes himself. I think he truly
Speaker 1: believes in the people he hires, and that's a good trait,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it doesn't work out that way, and then
Speaker 1: you get a situation like they're in right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just.
Speaker 2: All the things that went wrong with the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three team. Now knowing this about Girod Mayo's contract kind
Speaker 2: of puts it all into light. Yeah, how this all
Speaker 2: kind of came out part from a coaching perspective, because
Speaker 2: it never made any sense that they were so poorly coached.
Speaker 2: They have good coaches, right like, Bill Belichick's the greatest
Speaker 2: coach of all time. I think Bill O'Brien's a good coach.
Speaker 2: Girod Meyo is running the defense with Steve and now
Speaker 2: he's the head coach of the team, so they obviously
Speaker 2: think that he's a good coach. Joe Judge, for all
Speaker 2: of his flaws, I think is a good special teams coach,
Speaker 2: and their special teams wasn't all that much better. So
Speaker 2: all these things just didn't necessarily add up. A no
Speaker 2: talent in personnel is such a big reason for all
Speaker 2: of that. But it just felt it felt like a
Speaker 2: team that was poorly coached on the fundamentals, on the
Speaker 2: details of the game, which never made any sense when
Speaker 2: you looked at the actual experience and the actual knowledge
Speaker 2: on the coaching staff. So all this, in hindsight is
Speaker 2: really putting it all into perspective. Patty is an aguam.
Speaker 2: What's up, Patty?
Speaker 4: Jen?
Speaker 5: All right, Kevin, I got to clear a couple of
Speaker 5: things up from for you, okay, and Alex. I got
Speaker 5: a couple of names I want to Roger, allright, So
Speaker 5: I have an I think a two brute is from
Speaker 5: Hamlin's not from Julius Caesar. That's number one. And hey,
Speaker 5: I'm not I'm not judging. I'm a dummy.
Speaker 1: So it's from Caesar.
Speaker 2: It's from Caesar.
Speaker 3: From Caesar.
Speaker 1: Are you sure it's Julius Caesar's last words?
Speaker 2: Yeah, brute is his is his best buddy that he.
Speaker 1: Never stabbed him in the back, stabbed him in the back.
Speaker 5: I did say I was a dummy, So there you go.
Speaker 5: And Tuesday, when I called in saying that the guy
Speaker 5: that I wanted, Jayden Daniels, I wasn't looking at it
Speaker 5: as sort of like a consolation prize if those first
Speaker 5: two quarterbacks don't wanted to Honestly, I'm not sold on
Speaker 5: Drake May. I know that they're probably not going to
Speaker 5: get a chance to draft Kaylob Williams, but I think
Speaker 5: I correlate Jayden Daniels game to Deshaun Watson and and
Speaker 5: here's and this is why, this is how my brain works.
Speaker 5: When I watched Deshaun Watson his junior year at Clemson,
Speaker 5: I'm like, this guy's gonna suck. He's a one read quarterback.
Speaker 5: When that reads covered, he's gonna take off and he's
Speaker 5: gonna end up getting hurt. His senior year, I saw
Speaker 5: him progress and I saw him like read the field
Speaker 5: a little bit better. And I think I saw that
Speaker 5: from Jayden Daniels this past year and what's like maybe
Speaker 5: five games that I was able to watch LSU. So
Speaker 5: that's where I.
Speaker 3: Was going with that.
Speaker 5: He's for me, he's QB two, but I would love
Speaker 5: to see him on the team. And Alex the two
Speaker 5: names well both of you guys, but I think Alex
Speaker 5: dives a little bit steeper at this point, you know,
Speaker 5: in the NFL season. Then then you might have been true.
Speaker 5: If we're unable if we go QB one, yeah, number
Speaker 5: number three in the in the draft, and we're not
Speaker 5: able to get like a Patrick Paul in the second round,
Speaker 5: Patrick von Foster. I've looked at Javon Foster offensive tackle
Speaker 5: for Missouri and a sleeper wide receiver that I looked
Speaker 5: at that he looks pretty good. He looks like a
Speaker 5: Taekwon Thornton that's actually viable, that might actually be good
Speaker 5: in the NFL. Tory Holton out of or Tory Horton
Speaker 5: out of Colorado's state wide receiver. That's all I got, guys,
Speaker 5: I'll pick it up here.
Speaker 2: Thanks Patty uh So to the Jade and Daniels saying
Speaker 2: we've texted back and forth about this a little bit recently.
Speaker 2: Alex just the I'm scared. I'm just gonna say it.
Speaker 2: I'm afraid for the first time in my life, Adrian,
Speaker 2: I'm afraid. I am afraid to take a quarterback. I'm
Speaker 2: terrified of it. That's like, that's just what comes with it.
Speaker 2: It's because all you see are the flaws in the player,
Speaker 2: right Like, and it's not just Jayden Daniels, Like I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there and I'm watching Caleb Williams, fam whoever film
Speaker 2: excuse me who? Everybody's telling me is like this Trevor
Speaker 2: Lawrence Andrew Luck level prospect and I'm like, he took
Speaker 2: forty sacks last year. He fumbled like eighty times, and like,
Speaker 2: what am I missing? Right? And I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: Kayleb Williams is not a super talented player and not
Speaker 2: a His ceiling is through the roof, there's no doubt
Speaker 2: about that. But part of me can't help but look
Speaker 2: at this and say, he doesn't throw on time, He
Speaker 2: takes a ton of sacks, he turns the ball over,
Speaker 2: he's reckless. And I think then with Drake May like
Speaker 2: there's there's mechanical and footwork flaws that lead to accuracy
Speaker 2: issues for him. Daniel Jones, Daniel Jones, I think Josh
Speaker 2: Allen is probably the nicer comp right where.
Speaker 1: Well, no, because I told you that Daniel Jones comp
Speaker 1: and then you said you couldn't not see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely true, you know. I Jayden Daniels is
Speaker 2: probably my favorite out of all three to watch, you know, Like,
Speaker 2: I just love that lect. I just love that style.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, Patty's right, like he just
Speaker 2: if it's not initially there for him, his instinct is
Speaker 2: just to take off running and in college he can
Speaker 2: break off a forty yard scramble because nobody can catch him,
Speaker 2: and the pros people are going to catch him. And
Speaker 2: those forty yard scrambles might become eight yard scrambles or
Speaker 2: ten yard scrambles, and he's getting hit, and then you know,
Speaker 2: you worry about the injuries. Right like, here we go,
Speaker 2: and this is all I'm telling you, This is all.
Speaker 2: I can't get it out of my head that I
Speaker 2: just every time I watch one of these guys, I
Speaker 2: see a lot of positives and I see a lot
Speaker 2: of negatives, and none of them, by the way, I
Speaker 2: think Drake may is the closest.
Speaker 1: But none of them really played their brand of football.
Speaker 1: And I we don't know what their brand of football
Speaker 1: is going to be.
Speaker 2: But I'm all for innovation, like you know that, I'm
Speaker 2: all for modernizing. And I have a take on on
Speaker 2: net that I think Mike Lombardi nailed the other day
Speaker 2: that I heard. But in general, they are looking for sound,
Speaker 2: instructured decision makers, guys that are gonna throw on time
Speaker 2: to the open man, to the right guy, and the
Speaker 2: read the right guy in the progression accurately. And none
Speaker 2: of these guys fit that bill. So if you're gonna
Speaker 2: do this with one of these players, you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to completely rewrite how you run offense, Like.
Speaker 1: Don't, but there's a chance they might do that. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have a new head coach. We don't know who's
Speaker 1: he's gonna bring into the coordinator a real shot at that.
Speaker 1: And again this is why, and so what I would
Speaker 1: say to you being afraid of drafting a quarterback is terrified.
Speaker 1: What's the alternative?
Speaker 2: The alternatives are.
Speaker 1: The alternatives aren't pretty either.
Speaker 2: The alternatives are I guess two ways, right, One is
Speaker 2: the draft best player available in the first round bow
Speaker 2: Knick's path, right, which is what Dame Briggler did for
Speaker 2: the Patriots and his latest mock Marvin Harrison Junior at three,
Speaker 2: bow Knicks at thirty four, right, Like, that's one path.
Speaker 2: The other pass.
Speaker 1: So the Tennessee Titans plan more or less. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: went well. They well, but the Titans didn't draft Marvin
Speaker 1: Harrison Junior. All right, I mean there's that was just
Speaker 1: the first one that came to mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they took Scronsky right in the first round, and
Speaker 2: then it was.
Speaker 1: Well, then they signed they signed Hopkins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. The other path is to solve the
Speaker 2: quarterback problem in veteran in the veteran market. I don't
Speaker 2: want to say free agency, because you know.
Speaker 1: So by the way, the other the other like second
Speaker 1: round picks talking about Drew Locke in Denver. I think
Speaker 1: that was the year they took Jerry Judy. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that obviously didn't work out. Uh, Jalen Hurts and Philly
Speaker 1: worked out for a year. Put a pin in that one. Uh,
Speaker 1: Kyle Trask and Tampa Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean Kyle Trast sign BA. Kyle Trask's ceiling was much
Speaker 2: lower than bo Nix's. Like Kyle Trask, you knew was
Speaker 2: probably at his best, like a really good backup.
Speaker 1: Cour Deshaun Kaiser. I'm just going back to the most
Speaker 1: recent second round picks, Christian Hackenberg.
Speaker 2: I feel like DeShawn Kaiser. Christian Hackenberg is back when we,
Speaker 2: like teams really didn't know how to scout court. I
Speaker 2: feel like we've gotten better.
Speaker 1: At it, all right, Well I would when I say.
Speaker 2: We, I mean like NFL team, So I shouldn't say we.
Speaker 1: But there's been four quarterbacks taking in the second round
Speaker 1: in the last five years. You're looking at Will Levis,
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter, h Kyle Trask. I might have counted wrong,
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts and Drew Locke.
Speaker 2: Back to twenty nine, great, and I have my concerns
Speaker 2: about bo Nicks too, as you said.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's that path right just
Speaker 1: right all the angles. Well there's a third path too,
Speaker 1: Well it's the veteran mark. No, there's a third path.
Speaker 1: What's that run it back? Oh well no, that's note nobody.
Speaker 1: But here's my point. But but it has to be
Speaker 1: because you're either talking about a thirty six year old
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins coming off of torn achilles, no guarantee.
Speaker 2: I would just say that, okay, finish your point, and then.
Speaker 1: There's no guarantee there. Yeah, you're talking about a super
Speaker 1: low ceiling player like bo Nix. Might be a decent quarterback,
Speaker 1: he's not a franchise quarterback. He's not gonna be. He's
Speaker 1: too old to develop to that level to make the
Speaker 1: jumps he needs to make or run it back, which
Speaker 1: I don't. Nobody wants to do so, or take the
Speaker 1: guy in the first round. This is why do you
Speaker 1: remember back in like October, when everybody was ready to
Speaker 1: push Mac Jones out the door, and I said, you
Speaker 1: need to be patient and make sure it wasn't this.
Speaker 1: And at the time it was taken as this defense
Speaker 1: of mac Jones. It wasn't. It was because this is
Speaker 1: what's on the other side. And look, we ultimately found
Speaker 1: out with mac Jones and he wasn't the guy. And now, yes,
Speaker 1: this is where they are and they do. This is
Speaker 1: not me advocating for mac Jones or Bailey's Appy, and
Speaker 1: they found out with Bailey's Appy too. But the point is,
Speaker 1: you don't go back to the quarterback carousel until you're
Speaker 1: sure you absolutely need to, because as I've been saying
Speaker 1: for months, there is no you go into that carousel,
Speaker 1: you might not come out for twenty years. And you
Speaker 1: can go through first round draft picks, second round draft picks, veterans,
Speaker 1: you can keep sight, but permutations.
Speaker 2: This is why I'm a little surprised that you're so
Speaker 2: pro quarterback early, because you look, you're not gonna find
Speaker 2: rock Perty in the seventh round, right, you can't. That's
Speaker 2: an aspect that But if you take a little bit
Speaker 2: more of a deliberate approach to this, and you do
Speaker 2: draft the tackle or you do draft Marvin Harrison junior,
Speaker 2: and you just admit to yourselves that you're probably two
Speaker 2: or three years away from really being able to drop
Speaker 2: a quarterback in and have it all be ready to go.
Speaker 2: My biggest fear is and maybe they get away with
Speaker 2: it by sitting the guy for a little bit. Maybe
Speaker 2: they get away with it.
Speaker 1: By signing bone Nicks. He's twenty four.
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe not Bonnicks, But I'm talking about a first
Speaker 2: round pick, right, I'm talking about a guy at three. Like,
Speaker 2: maybe you you draft Jaden Daniels, you sign Gardner Minshew,
Speaker 2: and the plan is really to sit Jaden Daniels at
Speaker 2: least for the first half of the year unless he
Speaker 2: comes out in training camp and is just an absolutely
Speaker 2: dynamic player and you're like, this guy's too good to
Speaker 2: keep off the field. But in general, I we've always
Speaker 2: kind of uh trophied the the Niners, right, Like that's
Speaker 2: not the right word, but you know what I'm trying
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: And my whole plan about you get the you build
Speaker 1: all the pieces, you find the net neutral quarterback, you
Speaker 1: drop into it.
Speaker 2: Now you're saying the opposite.
Speaker 1: Because I don't think they have the therey. There was
Speaker 1: a window that they had to do that that windows passed.
Speaker 1: If they're gonna do that now you're talking about three four,
Speaker 1: five years, are you putting you know? After moving on
Speaker 1: from Bill Belichick. Are you willing to be mediocre for
Speaker 1: three or four years? Have drawed Meyo's coaching career. Start
Speaker 1: being mediocre for three or four years before you really
Speaker 1: get going. That thing takes time. When you had Brady
Speaker 1: and you had a chance to put some pieces around him,
Speaker 1: there was an opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just look at it. And the other thing
Speaker 2: I was, I look at the Houston Texans. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: as much as I want to say, and I have
Speaker 2: said in the past, that they just drop c J.
Speaker 2: Stroud into that team and he and now they're in
Speaker 2: the divisional round. Yeah, the Nick cass Ario, the ultimately
Speaker 2: Nick Cassio has been there for like three or four
Speaker 2: years and he has already started to build. He started
Speaker 2: to build everything else around to drop that quarterback in.
Speaker 2: Now they stunk and they still had the second overall
Speaker 2: pick in the draft to take CJ. Stroud, which means
Speaker 2: that you have to have some patience. And I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I don't think that they're gonna want to have patience.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna want Rodmeyo to work out right
Speaker 2: out of the gate. They're gonna spend money like crazy.
Speaker 2: This offseason and they're gonna throw a lot of research
Speaker 2: just since I think slow can strata elevated that group.
Speaker 2: Do they have that elite receiver? Do they have a
Speaker 2: Marvin Harrison junior type wide receiver?
Speaker 1: They don't. They have Laramie Tunzel, who's a good player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the rest of their line is fine. It's fine.
Speaker 2: They writ it out all this year. But that's a
Speaker 2: scheme that that usually gets a lot out of it.
Speaker 1: They they got, you know, they hit on some running backs,
Speaker 1: a late draft pick and a kind of free agent
Speaker 1: wash out who they were able to reinvigorate.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, people are pointed to the Texans. Is that blueprint of
Speaker 1: if you just give it a couple of years people
Speaker 1: in Houston won Casario gone. Oh last offseason like they
Speaker 1: weren't building towards anything. They hit a home run on
Speaker 1: the quarterback and the coordinator. That's what they did. And
Speaker 1: that's when you when So when you say the Texans
Speaker 1: are the blueprint, I would agree, but it's not the
Speaker 1: blueprint in the sense of, oh, yeah, just take some
Speaker 1: time to build this. No, if you go, if you
Speaker 1: believe in the quarterback and you take them, it can
Speaker 1: do wonders because they'll elevate everybody else. So I still believe.
Speaker 1: I still believe in the net neutral quarterback plan. For
Speaker 1: the record, I do. I do still truly believe in that.
Speaker 1: I just think time and place and setting it doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense for the Patriots right now. It did at
Speaker 1: one point when they drafted Mac Jones. It made a
Speaker 1: lot of sense because it was Okay, you have this
Speaker 1: quarterback on a rookie contract, you have all this cab space,
Speaker 1: you have future draft capital, and they just didn't use
Speaker 1: it now because they already had some pieces in place.
Speaker 1: They had that big twenty twenty one offseason. They had had,
Speaker 1: you know, a decent draft in twenty twenty with guys
Speaker 1: like Kyle Dugger, guys like Josh Ucha, guys like Mike
Speaker 1: O and Wenthu. They're not coming in with as much now,
Speaker 1: they're not coming in with as much. So I think
Speaker 1: that's why you gotta be aggressive to get the quarterback.
Speaker 2: So the other thing I mentioned about Lombardi, Mike Lombardi
Speaker 2: was on his podcast and I thought he made a
Speaker 2: really good point there. In case he didn't know, Alex,
Speaker 2: there's a Twitter X Conversations Patriots Twitter about what it
Speaker 2: means to be a modern offense.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like, I don't think this is
Speaker 1: I think this conversation is about you.
Speaker 2: And partially uh, you know, and like this buzzword right
Speaker 2: of modern offense, he rubs people the wrong way. And
Speaker 2: I thought that Lombardi really summed up what all of
Speaker 2: us that believe that the Patriots need to modernize their offense.
Speaker 2: He kind of got to the crux of it really well,
Speaker 2: and that is he said that the Patriots offense is
Speaker 2: built on first reaction precision, right like in structure play,
Speaker 2: this happens you do X, that happens you do why
Speaker 2: you know, first read, second read, third read, make a
Speaker 2: throw on time with accuracy, in rhythm nowadays, and especially
Speaker 2: when you look at this quarterback class, that's not how
Speaker 2: quarterbacks play anymore, right, quarterback play nowadays. And Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 2: was on the Manning Cast and like one of the
Speaker 2: only good things to come out of the Manning Cast
Speaker 2: was Patrick Mahomes talking to Peyton Manning about how it's
Speaker 2: changed for quarterbacks, how teams want the quarterbacks to read
Speaker 2: the field. When Peyton was playing, he said that it
Speaker 2: was full field progression right right, like you got from
Speaker 2: one all the way to your checkdown, and that was
Speaker 2: just how they wanted you to run the offense. Now
Speaker 2: it's more like one, maybe a second read and then
Speaker 2: do something right, make something happen, run around and make
Speaker 2: something happen. And the running around and make something happen,
Speaker 2: you know, initial decision not there to make something happen.
Speaker 2: Type of offense is the total antithesis of the Patriots offense.
Speaker 2: And that's why I look at these young quarterbacks and
Speaker 2: I especially Caleb and Jaden Daniels, but even Drake May
Speaker 2: who likes to be a little bit of a playmaker
Speaker 2: as well, out of structure, off platform, you know, move
Speaker 2: and extend plays, create time with his legs and make
Speaker 2: throws down the field. That type of stuff. They need
Speaker 2: to figure out a way to adapt their offense to
Speaker 2: that style of play. Well that would be That's where
Speaker 2: every quarterback in this draft, asides maybe bo Nix is headed.
Speaker 2: Like even JJ McCarthy, who we both don't like, and
Speaker 2: for all of his flaws, he's still one of those
Speaker 2: guys that likes to use his legs and likes to
Speaker 2: get outside the pocket and make throws on the run.
Speaker 2: So no matter who you're drafting out of this class,
Speaker 2: and I think moving forward that's just going to be
Speaker 2: the case. I don't think you're gonna draft like Shador
Speaker 2: Sanders at the top of the draft next year and
Speaker 2: expect him to run the Tom Brady offense right Like
Speaker 2: he's gonna want to use his mobility and use his
Speaker 2: instincts and use his playmaking gene as well. So that's
Speaker 2: where with modern offense with where they need to go.
Speaker 2: A lot of it is surrounded by the quarterback position,
Speaker 2: and a lot of these new offenses are encouraging that
Speaker 2: are not only encouraging it, but building in like schematic
Speaker 2: answers to allow quarterbacks to do that, like they're.
Speaker 1: Off structured chaos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their off script is scripted, right, and that I
Speaker 2: think is a much different thing than what the Patriots
Speaker 2: are currently doing. And if they draft a guy like
Speaker 2: Jayden Daniels third, overall, they absolutely are gonna have to
Speaker 2: adapt to that style.
Speaker 1: Well, this is my point too. Let's wait and see. Like,
Speaker 1: maybe they do bring back Josh McDaniels, this has been reported.
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna go with Bill, but I understand
Speaker 1: why Gerrodmeya would like him. Let's see what they do
Speaker 1: at offensive coordinator. It's still a little like I hate
Speaker 1: that we've had to put this caveaut and everything right
Speaker 1: every time we talk about the draft. Well, who's coaching
Speaker 1: the team, who's building the team right? How many times
Speaker 1: have we done that? We're almost the finish line, we're
Speaker 1: so close, but.
Speaker 2: We need the coaching staff, dun Let's let's maybe we
Speaker 2: can go down the hall.
Speaker 1: Maybe we can go down the hall. And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't see I didn't see Bobby slow walking in
Speaker 1: the building when I got here today. So oh, he'd
Speaker 1: be a head guy. He's not gonna be an offense coordinator,
Speaker 1: I do. I Actually I'm curious your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: We've talked a little bit. I think we've talked about this.
Speaker 1: The two guys who are under slowk and Houston, and
Speaker 1: one of those guys, especially Ben McDaniels, who is Josh's
Speaker 1: younger brother, who was their passing game coordinator.
Speaker 2: So Slok himself is really young in inexperienced. That's like
Speaker 2: it's kind of like draw it right, Like that's like
Speaker 2: the only knock on him as a head coaching candidate
Speaker 2: is his an experience. So I don't know how much
Speaker 2: experience his other coordinators have.
Speaker 1: Ben's forty three, Ben's been assistance.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah, Like Ben McDaniel's an interesting name,
Speaker 2: Like I wish that we could like not have a
Speaker 2: McDaniels or an O'Brien or Patricia. But if he, like,
Speaker 2: why do can we go a little bit further outside?
Speaker 1: If he coordinated Houston's passing game.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, yeah, I guess, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I give a lot of that credit to Slock, Like
Speaker 2: I just I look at it similarly to like what's
Speaker 2: going on with the Eagles right now.
Speaker 1: But wasn't Mike McDaniel's passing game coordinator in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: Run game coordinator. But yes, yes, it's a fair point.
Speaker 2: They I look at the Eagles and I look at
Speaker 2: their situation right now as as something to like be
Speaker 2: aware of, and that is they lose both coordinators and
Speaker 2: it falls apart right like, and especially on offense, like
Speaker 2: Shane Steiken walks out the door to Indy. He makes
Speaker 2: Gardner Minshew like a viable starting quarterback for a season,
Speaker 2: and Jalen Hurts has completely fallen off. And I think
Speaker 2: that that's the even when Houston, like Tamiko Ryans, I think,
Speaker 2: is a really really good head coach on the defensive
Speaker 2: side of the ball, good defensive mind, good motivator, all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. But when Bobby Slowek leaves to
Speaker 2: coach his own team in a year or this even
Speaker 2: maybe this cycle, next cycle, what's going to happen to CJ. Stroud,
Speaker 2: what's going to happen to the Texans offense? Because history
Speaker 2: tells us that that offense might fall apart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so then you want like Frank Reich as the
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, Like, you know, there's no perfect
Speaker 2: answer because like either you're taking guys that are older,
Speaker 2: that have are kind of established in their ways, like
Speaker 2: a Frank Rye, like an O'Brien, like a McDaniels, or
Speaker 2: you're taking a chance on like a Zach Robinson, who,
Speaker 2: if he hits it out of the park, is going
Speaker 2: to be a head coach in two years. And ideally,
Speaker 2: I think I would go to Zach Robinson route and
Speaker 2: hope that he then nurtures somebody, you know, mentors somebody
Speaker 2: in the building, and then it's a you know, it's
Speaker 2: a passing of the torch. Kind of like Wiss to
Speaker 2: McDaniels was versus starting all over in a new system.
Speaker 2: But the Eagles tried that with Brian Johnson as their
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator when Steiken left, and it didn't work. You know,
Speaker 2: Brian Johnson is not as good as Shane Stikeen. He's
Speaker 2: not as good as a coach, and so they their
Speaker 2: offense is completely fallen apart. It's it's a tough spot
Speaker 2: to be in. And you know, this is why we
Speaker 2: talked so much about hiring an offensive minded head coach,
Speaker 2: is because this is where you're at right as much
Speaker 2: as Girod is. You know, everybody's excited for the Girod
Speaker 2: Mayo era. Like, the offensive coordinator is a major, major
Speaker 2: question mark. Probably. I think the offensive coordinator is big
Speaker 2: of a question mark with his team as the general
Speaker 2: manager is. It's because that's the guy that's gonna be
Speaker 2: developing the guy, right, Like, that's the guy that's going
Speaker 2: to be coaching the quarterback, developing the quarterback, building a
Speaker 2: system around the quarterback. And if you're gonna take a
Speaker 2: quarterback at three and hand him to an inexperienced, defensive
Speaker 2: minded head coach, you better have somebody on the offense
Speaker 2: side of the ball that knows what he's doing, and
Speaker 2: it's that that's probably my biggest concern out of all
Speaker 2: of this. Let's get back to the phones. Roy is
Speaker 2: in Natick. What's up? Roy?
Speaker 1: Wait? Hang on? Two players, sorry, Roy? The two players
Speaker 1: that uh, oh my god, Okay, go Like Tory Horton
Speaker 1: went back to school, so I really liked him, but
Speaker 1: he's out. And then the tackle from Missouri. I haven't
Speaker 1: gotten to uh watch a ton of Javon Foster. I
Speaker 1: like Missouri's offense as a whole as good offense. I
Speaker 1: thought they blocked well as a whole. I gotta focus
Speaker 1: in more on him individually. But he'll be at Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl so a guy will learn more about then.
Speaker 2: Okay, Roy, go ahead. Sorry, we had to talk about
Speaker 2: two udfas before we took your call.
Speaker 1: I mean, Tory Horton is gonna be a or it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a top one hundred. Pick.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Roy.
Speaker 6: You'd like to propose a trade with the Vikings? Okay,
Speaker 6: first overall?
Speaker 2: Pick the Viking? Do you mean the Bears?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 6: I would like to propose a trade where we send
Speaker 6: ke On Wright mac Jones. Who else?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 6: Viderian Lowe and a and a draft pick for the
Speaker 6: first overall draft pick.
Speaker 2: What do you think for the Bears first overall pick?
Speaker 1: No for the Vikings. He's saying for the Vikings first
Speaker 1: round pick.
Speaker 2: Do you get it?
Speaker 6: Viderian low and ke On White? Uh No, I mean
Speaker 6: we correct all the mistakes of the last three years
Speaker 6: in one trade.
Speaker 4: White a mistake, Well, well, I would rather have taken
Speaker 4: an offensive tackle there, I mean, and that's what I
Speaker 4: would do with the Vikings pick is pick a tackle.
Speaker 1: Okay, that doesn't mean you get rid of good players
Speaker 1: three So you're you're going to give the Vikings three
Speaker 1: players who aren't starting caliber and a project defensive end.
Speaker 1: You think you're getting the eleventh overall pick for that.
Speaker 4: It's more of a joke, just making sure who.
Speaker 6: Was the first overall talented don't you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he could have been a first round pick.
Speaker 7: Yeah, honestly, I mean, you know, these are the players
Speaker 7: that Bill made a mistake on right White instead of
Speaker 7: taking an offensive tackle, Mac Jones instead of you know,
Speaker 7: waiting for on a quarterback.
Speaker 6: So I mean, I mean, you know we could clear
Speaker 6: all that and mess up in one trade.
Speaker 2: Okay, I get the point, thanks for the Colroy, that's
Speaker 2: not you're not getting a first round pick for that package.
Speaker 2: And Venerian Lowe was traded or cut by the Vikings
Speaker 2: right to the Patriots last offseason. Yeah, so he's already
Speaker 2: been in that building. So I don't know where that
Speaker 2: trade came from.
Speaker 1: Well, let's trade. Uh, let's trade who do they still
Speaker 1: have the rights to. Let's let's trade. Uh, you know
Speaker 1: James Fair and who else was on the practice squad
Speaker 1: and all those guys will see be nice. It's the old,
Speaker 1: the old Madden thing that used to be a glitterer.
Speaker 1: If you just put enough players in the trade, you
Speaker 1: could get a first pick.
Speaker 2: So his point though, of some of these guys that
Speaker 2: he feels that Bill made a mistake. Yeah, like Vaderian Lowe,
Speaker 2: Let's just like call Vaderian low what he was. Vadarian
Speaker 2: Lowe was like their sixth tackle that had to play.
Speaker 2: Like that wasn't like Bill Belichick traded for Vederia. I
Speaker 2: think they traded for him, right, I keep saying that,
Speaker 2: But that's not like they traded for Verderian Lowe thinking
Speaker 2: that he was Joe Thomas right, right, Like it just
Speaker 2: that one was a depth acquisition. They needed depth in
Speaker 2: bodies at that position and he was available. That's all
Speaker 2: that was. What did you make of you know, to
Speaker 2: get back to like real real world, not La la land. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what what did you make of Mac being there yesterday?
Speaker 1: You know, he's always he's always sounded pretty supportive. I
Speaker 1: thought that was interesting, and he definitely seems like the
Speaker 1: kind of guy that he's going to fight for the
Speaker 1: job as long as he has a chance to fight
Speaker 1: for it. You know, maybe he does ultimately end up
Speaker 1: getting traded. Maybe he doesn't know his future, but I
Speaker 1: do think he still wants to be a starting quarter
Speaker 1: I mean I think he wants to be a starting
Speaker 1: quarterback anywhere. But this is the team he currently plays for.
Speaker 1: It's a good show is support for the coach, and
Speaker 1: I think he did it to kind of show like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm still invested. Yeah, if I'm still on your roster,
Speaker 1: I'm still invested. I'm still bought in. I think that's
Speaker 1: what that was. Maybe it was a little bit of
Speaker 1: something that Bill too, that he's there for the new guy,
Speaker 1: but I kind of took it as as in it
Speaker 1: like I'm not taking my ball and going home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Yeah, I don't think he's ever really that
Speaker 2: type of stuff. I've never really questioned with Mac Jones
Speaker 2: right commitment, work ethic. You know, he the last couple
Speaker 2: off seasons and I'm assuming this one because he was
Speaker 2: there yesterday, he stayed local and has worked out at
Speaker 2: the facility. Right, He's done his off season training at
Speaker 2: the facility. He's throwing you know, on the practice fields,
Speaker 2: on the bubble, you know, things like that with his
Speaker 2: with his people. So he's done a lot of his work.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like he's one of these, especially him.
Speaker 2: You know, he's from the Florida Jacksonville area. It's not
Speaker 2: like he's going home to Florida and working out there
Speaker 2: all off season. He's He's stayed local and stayed here,
Speaker 2: So I'm not surprised that he's local or that he's
Speaker 2: here for that.
Speaker 1: Well, he might also, I mean John Jones flew up, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but no himself. I just wanted to mention that John
Speaker 1: Jones is the pilot, flew himself up.
Speaker 2: But I'm sure that Mac is.
Speaker 1: It would make sense that he'd be local. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I think it was a show of support. I think
Speaker 1: it was him showing he still bought in, which doesn't
Speaker 1: surprise me. Now, buying only gets you so far. And
Speaker 1: if he actually does want to stay and win the job,
Speaker 1: he's got to improve on a lot of things that
Speaker 1: went wrong for him last year. I'm not saying he
Speaker 1: showed up at the press conference he's going to be
Speaker 1: the starting quarterback week one, but I think he was saying, like, hey,
Speaker 1: I like you know, I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: expected him to he lost his starting job last year
Speaker 1: and just kind of ride off into the sunset. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's going to be his mentality. I think
Speaker 1: as long as he's here, he's going to fight for
Speaker 1: the job. And if he gets traded, he'll fight for
Speaker 1: the job wherever he gets traded to.
Speaker 2: That'll be fascinating if they draft the quarterback, And it
Speaker 2: would be very bad if they draft a quarterback at
Speaker 2: three overall and Macjones beats him, beats him out in
Speaker 2: training camp, But it would be very interesting if it
Speaker 2: is at least an argument that Mac Jones or even
Speaker 2: Bailey z Happy for that matter, is playing better next
Speaker 2: summer than the quarterback that they draft.
Speaker 1: Well, would make it interesting. And we kind of did
Speaker 1: this with Mac and Cam you're talking about two different
Speaker 1: offense whoever they draft. You just touched on it that
Speaker 1: whoever they draft in the first round, if they draft
Speaker 1: Bo Knicks, it's going to be similar. But I also
Speaker 1: think Mac Jones could be out Bo Nicks as a rookie.
Speaker 1: If they drafting those top thre guys, is going to
Speaker 1: be completely different offense. So then you run into that
Speaker 1: thing because remember Max's rookie year, he didn't really run
Speaker 1: the offense he was gonna run in camp. He ran
Speaker 1: like a modified version of the Cam Newton offense with
Speaker 1: the second string, and then they kind of had to
Speaker 1: rewrite the thing in the whole two weeks before the
Speaker 1: start of the season. So it definitely would be interesting
Speaker 1: in that regard. But I think if they take a
Speaker 1: quarterback in the first round, Mac Jones won't be here
Speaker 1: at the start camp.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would make the most sense. I
Speaker 2: think it just adds a lot of Now you have
Speaker 2: two first round pokes on your roster, and both that
Speaker 2: you drafted, and it's just.
Speaker 1: We talked a lot with Mac about, you know, stop
Speaker 1: making it hard for him, start, stop giving them all
Speaker 1: these mental tests. Same thing with the new guy and Frankly,
Speaker 1: it's not fair to either of them. It's bad for
Speaker 1: the development. Not that they should necessarily care about Mac
Speaker 1: Joe's development, who's not going to be here, but it's
Speaker 1: not good for either guy if they're both in the building,
Speaker 1: if they draft a quarterback in the first round, they
Speaker 1: have to move on from Mac.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. All right. Hector is in Maine.
Speaker 2: What's up, Hector? Hey guys.
Speaker 8: First, I'm looking to the show, really enjoying it.
Speaker 1: Great, Thank you.
Speaker 8: So, Uh, the only thing I want to bring up
Speaker 8: when it comes to quarterback and looking around the league,
Speaker 8: I think it'd be a viable trade to maybe offer
Speaker 8: the Bears a third for field. They're not hurting with
Speaker 8: draft picks, they have the first through their trade, and
Speaker 8: I think we'd get a league and quarterback that is
Speaker 8: not he's had I think similar issues to Mac where
Speaker 8: he's had different coaches and coordinators over the years, and
Speaker 8: we'd get I think a better opportunity to win than
Speaker 8: drafting our quarterback because it didn't work out with Mac,
Speaker 8: and historically drafted quarterback it's hit or myth, So I
Speaker 8: why take the shot and put weapons around field?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, Jake thanks for the call, Hector. This
Speaker 2: is gonna be a popular question. Yeah, about Justin Fields.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing with Justin Fields is that
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to pay him, right, So it's not
Speaker 2: just you know, Mac has fifth year option decisions this offseason,
Speaker 2: so is Justin Fields right? So yes, you get him
Speaker 2: for one year on the fourth year of his rookie
Speaker 2: deal at an affordable cost, But as soon after that
Speaker 2: it's gonna go up and up and up, and if
Speaker 2: he ends up playing well, then you don't really care
Speaker 2: what you pay him. Right, if you're paying him forty
Speaker 2: five million dollars a year to be a franchise quarterback
Speaker 2: than what difference is, But.
Speaker 1: The whole putting talent around him kind of comes off
Speaker 1: the table for the most part, for the most I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: the cap can be maneuvered, but yeah, because there's so
Speaker 1: much value in having a quarterback on a rookie contract
Speaker 1: and you're punting on essentially really four years of that
Speaker 1: three years, but kind of four years of it if
Speaker 1: you add Justin Fields. Does Justin Fields have some upside? Yes? Absolutely? Yeah,
Speaker 1: But now maybe it's so I I don't know how
Speaker 1: I feel about this. I had the thought, and then
Speaker 1: I kind of didn't like it. Would you trade mac
Speaker 1: Jones and maybe like a fourth for Justin Fields, and
Speaker 1: Justin Fields becomes your bridge guy for Jaydon Daniels or
Speaker 1: Drake May and he gets a chance to showcase what
Speaker 1: he can do, and then if he's good, great, you
Speaker 1: trade him and it's another guy you get to put
Speaker 1: around whichever quarterback. Now, it's kind of like what the
Speaker 1: Niners as I'm saying, and it's very dangerously close to
Speaker 1: Trey Land. So I'm gonna retract that and say nevermind.
Speaker 1: But I just yeah, part of the value in drafting
Speaker 1: the quarterback. And again, I know it's scary. Like he said,
Speaker 1: you get a league proven quarterback if it's Remember I
Speaker 1: said the other the thing the other day about the
Speaker 1: quarterback carousel. There's one hundred doors and behind ninety nine
Speaker 1: of them is nothing but darkness and nothingness and despair
Speaker 1: and terror. And you don't know which door you're opening.
Speaker 1: That's where we are. That being said, you got to
Speaker 1: open the door. You gotta open, and you gotta rip
Speaker 1: the band aid off, and you gotta just do it
Speaker 1: because the upside if you hit on the quarterback is
Speaker 1: so so so much higher than you know, I think
Speaker 1: the upside maybe with Justin Fields it's a little higher,
Speaker 1: but you know, and a guy like Kirk Cousins or
Speaker 1: I don't think Baker's gonna be available. Baker's the one
Speaker 1: veteran I would consider. But if the Bucks don't resign Baker,
Speaker 1: people should be fired. Like that's simple.
Speaker 2: The Bucks, Baker's franchise town right, No.
Speaker 1: He'll be there. But the whole thing about like a veteran,
Speaker 1: veteran quarterback or whatever the ceiling for that you're you're
Speaker 1: talking about Kirk Cousins. This isn't I feel like people,
Speaker 1: and I've given this take before, but I feel like
Speaker 1: people saw there was this run in the last decade
Speaker 1: of quarterback like superstar quarterbacks moving late in their careers,
Speaker 1: and started with Peyton when he went to Denver, and
Speaker 1: then you see a guy like Brady leave, and to
Speaker 1: some lesser extents, you had Rivers, you had Matt Ryan,
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson. That happened because there was such
Speaker 1: a surplus of quarterback talent in the NFL, and not
Speaker 1: just there were more good quarterbacks than there had ever been.
Speaker 1: They were all playing into their late thirties and early forties,
Speaker 1: and it there was just a surplus at this position
Speaker 1: that's not supposed to happen. That's over, that's done. Wilson
Speaker 1: was the last one. I don't know who else from that, like,
Speaker 1: who were the veteran quarterbacks that would move. The next
Speaker 1: true established starting quarterback that might move is Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 1: But if he does that, he probably had a pretty
Speaker 1: bad year next year.
Speaker 2: I also think that he's moving more so because the
Speaker 2: Jaguars are a dumpster fire, like just because.
Speaker 1: That's but the idea that like, oh well, look the
Speaker 1: Bucks traded for for Brady and it worked, and even
Speaker 1: you can say, you know, Rivers got the Colts to
Speaker 1: the playoffs. It wasn't great, but Rivers got the Colts
Speaker 1: of the playoffs and right things like that. The ceiling
Speaker 1: on that kind of move now with the guys were
Speaker 1: available is Geno Smith and the Seahawks, And that's been
Speaker 1: a fun story. And I'm happy for Gino that he's,
Speaker 1: you know, playing well in all of that.
Speaker 2: Happy for him.
Speaker 1: Where are they happy for the guy? Where are they?
Speaker 1: Where are the Seahawks right now?
Speaker 2: Sending Pete Carrol upstairs.
Speaker 1: Exactly so it's because you have to pay the guy.
Speaker 1: There isn't as much room for development. A lot of
Speaker 1: these times the older a lot of the times the
Speaker 1: older quarterbacks are set in their ways. So if you're
Speaker 1: not a scheme in like justin fields is a little different,
Speaker 1: but it's still that idea where like you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to pay him and his development windows kind of closing,
Speaker 1: like he's there, who he is, it's like paying him.
Speaker 2: And then also that that last part, like it is
Speaker 2: a lot of his flaws right now as a past
Speaker 2: are very similar to Jayden Daniels's flaws as a passer.
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't you take the younger, cheaper version, Like
Speaker 2: why would you.
Speaker 1: You have more time to develop?
Speaker 2: The only difference is is like I get the caller's point, and.
Speaker 1: We just I would just say before people. Yet they're
Speaker 1: gonna say, oh, Jade Daniels only a year younger. Justin fields,
Speaker 1: football years, it's different. Well, it's it's just contractual years,
Speaker 1: you're well, it's also football years. I think if you've
Speaker 1: been in the NFL for a certain amount of time
Speaker 1: and you haven't adjusted, that's a sign that you're not
Speaker 1: going to adjust. Jade Daniels is still more multiple, He
Speaker 1: still more of a piece of play than a guy
Speaker 1: like Justin Fields.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously the Devil's advocate is that now
Speaker 2: you're not using your first round pick on a quarterback.
Speaker 2: So the first round pick becomes Marvin Harrison Junior becomes
Speaker 2: Joeall and now you're getting a guy with a little
Speaker 2: bit of a higher ceiling than Mac Jones at the
Speaker 2: quarterback position, and you're still and you're getting a big
Speaker 2: time player at the top of the draft. Whereas if
Speaker 2: you just take Jayden Daniels, you just have Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 2: So would you rather Justin Fields and Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 2: or Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 1: I'd rather Jane Daniels and T Higgins or Jane Daniels
Speaker 1: and Mike Evans. And that's where that comes in, Like
Speaker 1: they got to be willing to spend to make this work.
Speaker 1: And that was the big misstep. And this was in
Speaker 1: I think that again I'm getting all of these inside
Speaker 1: look pieces mixed up because there were so many of them.
Speaker 1: I believe it was Jeff Howe who wrote about this
Speaker 1: about you know, they drafted Mac Jones and didn't really
Speaker 1: do anything after that, they didn't really invest in the offense.
Speaker 1: They used a first round pick on a guard, they
Speaker 1: used a second round pick on a receiver. They traded
Speaker 1: a third round pick for a receiver. That was really
Speaker 1: it in terms of premium editions. Pop Douglass was a hit,
Speaker 1: but he's a sixth round pick. Kendrick Bourne was nice,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't highly paid. Even you know, Nelson Aglore
Speaker 1: was not highly paid. I know people thought they game
Speaker 1: a lot of money. They made him the twenty third
Speaker 1: highest paid receiver in football when they signed him. That's
Speaker 1: not a premium edition. I say all of this about
Speaker 1: the quarterback hoping that this time it's different and they
Speaker 1: get aggressive and adding pass catching talent.
Speaker 2: Fast guys the draft, fast guys, no I want.
Speaker 1: I want good players, So draft good players. I'm hoping
Speaker 1: or signed good players. Frankly, I'm hoping they get more
Speaker 1: aggressive and putting the talent around the quarterback this time.
Speaker 1: But that to me is the big part, and for
Speaker 1: what it sort, I still think you can get an
Speaker 1: impact receiver on Day two in this draft. I still
Speaker 1: think you can get an impact tackle in the second round.
Speaker 1: I don't know about the third round, but I still
Speaker 1: think you can do that. Maybe not gonna be a
Speaker 1: perennial All Pro like Joe Balt, but they're certainly gonna
Speaker 1: be good enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I the receivers in this class especially, I
Speaker 2: think the depth of this class is as deep as
Speaker 2: I've ever seen real It's there might be like twenty
Speaker 2: receivers taken in the first three rounds.
Speaker 1: I've said this seven I've said this to you. There
Speaker 1: are guys that are probably gonna go early on Day two.
Speaker 1: I look at the two Texas guys in particular, Savior
Speaker 1: Worthy in ad Mitchell. Both of those guys are either
Speaker 1: wide receiver one or wide receiver two for me last year, Like,
Speaker 1: those are guys I'm taking last year top twenty, and
Speaker 1: they're gonna go probably outside of the first round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even like a guy you know, I really like
Speaker 2: Roman Wilson a lot from Michigan. Yeah, he's gonna be
Speaker 2: in play with the Patriots third round pick probably right.
Speaker 1: And you know what, if you miss him, you get
Speaker 1: Jermain Burton from Alabama, who very similar player. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a fourth round pick.
Speaker 2: Roman Wilson's got some Aman Ross Saint Brown vibes.
Speaker 1: You think so? Yeah, I feel like he's much faster.
Speaker 2: I think he's got some aman Ross.
Speaker 1: I I kind of see where you're coming from. But like,
Speaker 1: I think he's more explosive. No, uh, I don't think
Speaker 1: he's a shifty I think he's more fast than quick.
Speaker 2: I think that I think in the NFL he'll be
Speaker 2: more quick than he is fast because I think those
Speaker 2: types of guys. I don't think that Roman Wilson has
Speaker 2: like two true top end speed, but in the college
Speaker 2: game he does, you know, like a guy like Pop
Speaker 2: Douglas really like he's really really fast, but in short
Speaker 2: bursts right like in the league he's not Tyreek Hill,
Speaker 2: He's not He's not taking the top up at Liberty,
Speaker 2: he was taking the top.
Speaker 1: I have another aman Ross Saint Brown komp in this
Speaker 1: draft is Jacob Colling from Arizona. You'll see him at
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was I was a big not to like toot
Speaker 2: my own horn like, but I was a big armine.
Speaker 2: And uh, those types of guys, the crafty guys that
Speaker 2: still have enough athleticism, speed burst agility like those are they.
Speaker 2: And I always gravitate towards and I've always said it's
Speaker 2: like take Jacoby Flowers. Take Jacoby Myers. Yeah, but first
Speaker 2: or second round Jacoby Myers, right, like, don't take the
Speaker 2: guy that was a quarterback to start thenning receiver then
Speaker 2: ran a four seven. Well that me is take the
Speaker 2: four or five Jacoby Myers.
Speaker 1: That to me is Jalen Polk from Washington. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: love him too, yeah, he he. I don't think he's
Speaker 1: as as heady as Jacoby was, at least not yet.
Speaker 1: But his like, I know he had the big game
Speaker 1: against Texas where he was catching all these downfield passes.
Speaker 1: But I look at him, I see a guy that
Speaker 1: can be an elite chain mover in the NFL. In elite,
Speaker 1: you know, third and six, he's gonna get open. He's
Speaker 1: gonna find a way to get open at seven yards.
Speaker 1: He's got very reliable hands, he's got a good catch radius.
Speaker 1: He yeah, he's kind of that Jacoby guide. I mean
Speaker 1: maybe he's a little more explosive, doesn't necessarily read the
Speaker 1: field as well. But there's some interesting slot guy that's
Speaker 1: and that's the other thing. Like last year, remember it
Speaker 1: was all slot guys. Yeah, it was all js zay
Speaker 1: we were talking about. I mean, Quentin Johnson was the
Speaker 1: one kind of X. But told you Eldrew this this year,
Speaker 1: guy's got what what do you want? Describe a receiver
Speaker 1: and there's a guy or more. There might be two
Speaker 1: or three in the top one hundred that fit that description.
Speaker 1: It's a very diverse group. It's a very deep group.
Speaker 1: This is a very, very, very good I remember saying
Speaker 1: last year is a bad year to need a receiver,
Speaker 1: and people say, oh, you always say that, Not this year,
Speaker 1: not this year. And you look at the free agency
Speaker 1: class too, This is a good year to need a receiver.
Speaker 1: This is a buyer's market if you need a receiver.
Speaker 2: I think that that could also. It's not gonna impact
Speaker 2: like the t higgins Is of the world. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: still gonna get paid, as my voice is going out,
Speaker 2: but I think that it will impact sort of like
Speaker 2: the Kendrick Bournes of free agency. And I love Kendrick Bourne.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to like take his money from him, right,
Speaker 2: But with Kendrick Bourne, that type of player, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of teams are gonna look at it and say,
Speaker 2: we can just get Kendrick Bourn in the fourth or
Speaker 2: third round in this draft, Like why are we gonna
Speaker 2: pay Kendrick Bourne twelve million dollars year when we can
Speaker 2: just draft it for for a quarter of the price.
Speaker 2: The Patriots probably shouldn't operate like that just because of
Speaker 2: their developmental history at the position. But teams that are
Speaker 2: really good at developing receivers, I think that they're gonna
Speaker 2: look at guys like you know, in that mid tier
Speaker 2: free agency class at the position, and they're gonna say,
Speaker 2: this draft, we can just kind of draft that guy.
Speaker 2: So Kendrick Bourne's value might not be as high as
Speaker 2: it would be in other years.
Speaker 1: The guy like Thrash from Louisville.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, uh, you mentioned Polk, you mentioned I love
Speaker 2: both Texas guys, but I feel like they're gonna go.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to take one of those guys at
Speaker 2: thirty four at the at the lowest.
Speaker 1: I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 2: It depends on what you do attack, I guess, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's this tackle class drops off, and if you don't
Speaker 2: take a tackle at thirty four, I'm worried.
Speaker 1: That you're you're probably gonna miss it. I mean you
Speaker 1: could trade up, you could get aggressive and trade up.
Speaker 2: God forbid, you know you do you actually trade.
Speaker 1: There's other guys that like further down Malachai Cory's an
Speaker 1: interesting one from Western Kentucky. He put up massive numbers.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a wide receiver. Bailey's appy,
Speaker 1: but there is a little bit of that.
Speaker 2: That's not gonna sell people.
Speaker 1: I know it's not. It's just so easy.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: I don't eve remember what kind of receiver we were talking about.
Speaker 2: I was just well, so, I guess this is my
Speaker 2: other question too, as we get into this, is that
Speaker 2: I think if you look at them historically, yeah, and
Speaker 2: I get that it's not Bill anymore, and we maybe
Speaker 2: maybe we get lucky and this changes.
Speaker 1: How this is again, tell me who's coordinating.
Speaker 2: Right, maybe the new coordinator, new wide receiver coach, like
Speaker 2: they go to all of a sudden being the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 2: I don't know, right, but the position that they have
Speaker 2: struggled with the most is obviously the X spot right,
Speaker 2: the true perimeter outside receiver. They've been able to get
Speaker 2: the inside guys like Jacoby Myers, Pop Douglas, you know,
Speaker 2: even Kedrick Bourne right Like, they've been able to get
Speaker 2: those z slock guys and have get guys to produce
Speaker 2: in that spot. That's why I feel like, if you're
Speaker 2: gonna go as much as I love, you know, some
Speaker 2: of these x's in this class, like like an ad Mitchell,
Speaker 2: who I think is a really really intriguing player early
Speaker 2: on Day two, but as much as I like those
Speaker 2: types of guys, if you're gonna go that direction, I
Speaker 2: feel like paying the proven commodity for the Patriots at
Speaker 2: outside receivers like a T Higgins, even like a Michael Pittman,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not paying Michael Pittman as much as T Higgins,
Speaker 2: but those types of guys, and then supplementing that with
Speaker 2: a Day two draft pick at the position that's more
Speaker 2: your type of guy that fits more what you do.
Speaker 2: I think that that's probably the smartest way for them
Speaker 2: to go. Pittman. Obviously, I know you like Mike Evans.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit worried about him falling off, But
Speaker 2: Mike Evans, I think is a potential.
Speaker 1: I think if it's Mike Evans, you draft more of
Speaker 1: a kind of X Z hybrid, and then you give
Speaker 1: Evans a year or two while that guy truly develops
Speaker 1: that you draft Mike Evans, you take a more developmenttal
Speaker 1: guy in the third round. You have Evans here for
Speaker 1: like two or three years, and then you hope that
Speaker 1: whoever you drafted is ready to take over as your
Speaker 1: true wide receiver one when Mike Evans is out. But
Speaker 1: I'd say with Higgins, you have Higgins at t X, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have Pop Douglas in the slot, so you're looking
Speaker 1: at probably like his type receiver. Jalen McMillan from Washington's
Speaker 1: an interesting guy in that regard. You can probably get
Speaker 1: him in the third round. I'm not ready to say
Speaker 1: I'm in on Ricky pier Saw yet. I need to
Speaker 1: see more of them. Guy from Florida. Yeah, he is interesting.
Speaker 1: He makes a ton of highlight catches. There's a ton
Speaker 1: of if I say highlight routes, does that make sense, yep?
Speaker 1: Where like he runs some routes where he just I
Speaker 1: mean the defenders nowhere nearby.
Speaker 2: That that's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I need to watch the I just I don't know
Speaker 1: how consistently he does it, Like I didn't watch Florida enough.
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten him yet. He'll be at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: But like Ricky pier Saw is a guy like sort
Speaker 1: of again saying this not having watched him a ton
Speaker 1: sort of Kendrick bourneish where you can he can do
Speaker 1: a lot of different things and he'll pop and he's
Speaker 1: got some big playability. Like you put that kind of
Speaker 1: guy with T Higgins and Pop Douglas and that kind
Speaker 1: of interests me.
Speaker 2: So you mentioned guys that run highlight routes versus like
Speaker 2: guys that just somehow put up stats that don't are
Speaker 2: in a flash.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's like something like I like catch, right,
Speaker 1: a guy a spectacular catch. The guy you see him,
Speaker 1: he's always losting people one hand of grabs or diving
Speaker 1: catches the route equivalent of that, where like I would
Speaker 1: watch him in like like he's putting the defender on
Speaker 1: the floor, like he's just losing guys in the route,
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 2: So I watched. I finished up the six quarterbacks, right,
Speaker 2: I did JJ McCarthy. I tough threugh it okay, but
Speaker 2: when are you going to watch Joe Milton? Probably not
Speaker 2: till like April. But I I also did the top
Speaker 2: three receivers, Marvin Harrison obviously neighbors and a Dunez and
Speaker 2: Marvin Harrison. Like I'm gonna put Marvin Harrison in this
Speaker 2: draft conversation in his own category. I just don't think
Speaker 2: he's he's his own thing, so we're really studying is
Speaker 2: like more the Neighbors, A Dune say, Keon Coleman, Like
Speaker 2: that sort of tear is when I say this Milik
Speaker 2: Neighbors is the flashiest guy by far.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he's an LC receiver.
Speaker 2: His burst in all in all ways, like his ability
Speaker 2: to change speeds, whether it's tracking the ball in the
Speaker 2: air and pulling away as he's tracking it, or it's
Speaker 2: like a little stutter and go and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden he hits the gas at the top of
Speaker 2: the stem and it's just like gone. His ability to
Speaker 2: create separation and do that is is freaky rare, freaky rare.
Speaker 2: A duneesay, you know who. He reminds me a little
Speaker 2: bit of I've said Stefan Diggs. But that's not bad.
Speaker 2: I don't find that. I was gonna say DeAndre Hopkins,
Speaker 2: like I feel like he's not that is he that big?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: He's DeAndre Hopkins isn't like DeAndre Hopkins is like tough,
Speaker 2: you know. I Digs is a good.
Speaker 1: Copy doxfly Oh Dune says six.
Speaker 2: Y three, I don't know if he's that tall. We'll
Speaker 2: see at the combine.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what Like I think Hopkins like six ' five,
Speaker 1: like he's got the Hawkins, not sixty five. Hawkins is
Speaker 1: six five?
Speaker 2: Am I thinking of no Hawkins like six two six
Speaker 2: one six two?
Speaker 1: Is that it? I thought? I just thought of him
Speaker 1: as tall? Uh.
Speaker 2: The reason why I bring the reason why I bring
Speaker 2: up Hopkins, I think that Hopkins is tougher at the
Speaker 2: catchpoint than a Dune. Say, yeah, but I think the
Speaker 2: difference what I see with them is that I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily see like tons of separation on the film, but
Speaker 2: he makes all this like initial separation and then like
Speaker 2: there's enough of it that if you put it in
Speaker 2: his catcher eighty is just he just muscles in and
Speaker 2: makes the catch. And that type of guy I don't
Speaker 2: find quite as intriguing as like the flashier guys, because
Speaker 2: I'm all about separation, like who's gonna get open for
Speaker 2: me at the top of the route. A Dune's is
Speaker 2: just one of those guys that it doesn't pop off
Speaker 2: the film necessarily at you. But then you look at
Speaker 2: the box score and he had like one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty yards in the game and you're just kind of like,
Speaker 2: how did that happen?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And I feel like Diggs is maybe a little bit
Speaker 2: better than him at the top of the route, but
Speaker 2: I feel like Hopkins is someone that is similar, Like
Speaker 2: Hopkins probably has more highlight reel like one handed acrobatic
Speaker 2: type of catches, but just in terms of the route running,
Speaker 2: is like is he that fast? Like is he really
Speaker 2: pulling away from people and all of a sudden he's
Speaker 2: got like one hundred and fifty yards?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And I feel that way about it. Douneesa Milik Neighbors
Speaker 2: is I don't know how or why it would make
Speaker 2: sense for the Patriots to draft a Duneesay or Neighbors
Speaker 2: just based off of where they're gonna go, right, talking
Speaker 2: about probably like the five to ten range for both
Speaker 2: of those guys, and it's like, not real, you're.
Speaker 1: Taking a receiver at that point. Just take Harrison a three.
Speaker 2: And you're like trading down to take Melik Nabor like
Speaker 2: it may I just don't really see how that works,
Speaker 2: but I thought I would just mention that because I
Speaker 2: did watch both of you guys.
Speaker 1: Watch so it's funny. Hopkins and again in my mind,
Speaker 1: Hopkins was taller, but Hopkins is my comfort. Key On
Speaker 1: Coleman just like elite jump ball catch point receiver.
Speaker 2: I could see that Keon Coleman terrifies me. I know
Speaker 2: he does, but doesn't create enough separation for me new
Speaker 2: era like okay, but the one.
Speaker 1: Hand Coleman is the guy. I talked about this.
Speaker 2: In the NFL off of one handed catches.
Speaker 1: That's just I talk about this all the time, natural separation.
Speaker 1: Keon Coleman sixty five with massive arms. He's a freak
Speaker 1: at You throw the ball up the corners, not getting
Speaker 1: where Keon Coleman's getting to. You throw throw the ball
Speaker 1: out wide, the corner can't reach where Keon Coleman can
Speaker 1: reach to get the ball.
Speaker 2: So aren't you like more describing T Higgins? I guess probably, yeah,
Speaker 2: like to like that's how I feel.
Speaker 1: There's there's probably more T Higgins. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you get a chance to watch Brian Thomas?
Speaker 2: Not yet, but I did watch him, Like obviously I'm
Speaker 2: watching the neighbors, but you have to, like, I have
Speaker 2: to watch the guy specifically. No, I watched all of
Speaker 2: these games for Jayden Daniels and now I'm rewatching all
Speaker 2: of the same games.
Speaker 1: No, I know, but I guess the reason I bring
Speaker 1: up Thomas is we just talked about you know, do
Speaker 1: you go it? And you're probably not getting Thomas at
Speaker 1: thirty four, but trading back up into the end of
Speaker 1: the first round. Maybe because people have talked about he's
Speaker 1: the sneaky forgotten guy right in this class you get Daniels,
Speaker 1: Can you pair him? People have asked, you know, can
Speaker 1: you pair Daniels with Neighbors? That's not not not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Can you pair Daniels with Thomas? That's very realistic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And Thomas is, like you said, forgotten. I think he's
Speaker 1: one of these guys, and you love to highlight these guys.
Speaker 1: Everybody's looking at Malik Neighbors, so Thomas probably isn't getting
Speaker 1: the hype.
Speaker 2: Take guy.
Speaker 1: Me watching. I'm with him on this one. I'm with
Speaker 1: him on this one.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying Tom I understand it too.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Thomas as good as Neighbors. And I'm
Speaker 1: curious to you you you're better at receivers than me,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious to get your riad on Thomas because
Speaker 1: I think he's he's more of the prototypical X. But
Speaker 1: he's fast and he'd be an interesting guy. You put
Speaker 1: him and Pop Douglas on the field together, you got
Speaker 1: a ton of speed. But he gives you a sign.
Speaker 1: He's not the biggest guy. He's not t Higgas, He's
Speaker 1: not the biggest guy in the world, but he gives
Speaker 1: you some size in that. In that sense, he does separate.
Speaker 1: I mean he's an l C receiver. He does separate.
Speaker 2: YEA god that that school just like I mean, Neighbors
Speaker 2: is a dude. That guy is unreal. I the comp
Speaker 2: that I think.
Speaker 1: Is he is the best LSU receiver you've watched. No,
Speaker 1: he's not, because I know how much you love Justin Jefferson.
Speaker 2: And I and I think Jamar Chase was better than him. Okay,
Speaker 2: but I think that Jamar Chase is a decent comp
Speaker 2: from Malik Neighbors. I see a lot of similarities. They're
Speaker 2: actually like almost identically the same size. They're both like
Speaker 2: six one two hundred. I look at both. I think
Speaker 2: Malik Neighbors has a little bit more of a top
Speaker 2: gear than Jamar Chase, and Jamar Chase is probably a
Speaker 2: little bit better at the catch point, But from like
Speaker 2: a body type standpoint, it's probably the LSU thing a
Speaker 2: little bit, I'll admit that. But I look at those
Speaker 2: two Marvin Harrison Junior. If you put Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 2: in a Raiders uniform with a number seventeen, I would
Speaker 2: not be able to tell the difference between him and
Speaker 2: DeVante Adams. They run, They're literally the same person. It's
Speaker 2: it's crazy, like has anybody ever seen them in the
Speaker 2: same room together. I'm not sure, Like they are so identical,
Speaker 2: it's not even funny, like they can both play. Every
Speaker 2: thing about Marvin Harrison Junior that I think makes them
Speaker 2: so ridiculous is that he's everything all in one. He
Speaker 2: is an outside perimeter receiver and a slot receiver, and
Speaker 2: he can do He can win in both areas. He
Speaker 2: can win inside, he can win outside, he can win
Speaker 2: at the first two levels. He can win down the field.
Speaker 2: He can win with speed, he can win with quickness.
Speaker 2: Like that's Devanta Adams like he's He's very very similar.
Speaker 2: His route releases are refined and very difficult, a lot
Speaker 2: like Davante Adams. He creates so much early separation in
Speaker 2: the stem just by releasing off the line of scrimmage
Speaker 2: and the way he sets up angles and things like that.
Speaker 2: He's the best receiver I've ever watched in college.
Speaker 1: Better than Jefferson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, better than Jefferson. Jefferson was different, right, Jefferson.
Speaker 1: Do you think Devant Adams is the best receiver in
Speaker 1: the league.
Speaker 2: I would say that it's between him and Tyreek Kill. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like Tyra Kill has probably got the best superpower in
Speaker 2: the league.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: But I think in terms of like complete receivers, what
Speaker 2: makes Adams and guys like Adams and Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 2: so special to me is their ability to play every
Speaker 2: single spot. They can line up anywhere, Like he can
Speaker 2: line up one, two, and three, inside slot, outside slot X,
Speaker 2: Like he can line up all over the formation. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, Like he can just as easily beat you
Speaker 2: on a slant as he can beat you on on
Speaker 2: a go ball down the sideline. Like that is Tyreek
Speaker 2: Kill is his own thing, like because of his speed.
Speaker 2: But the only other guy that I can think of
Speaker 2: that does that is Devonte Adams. So this brings I
Speaker 2: guess we'll just talk about it because we're gonna talk
Speaker 2: about it for the next six months or four months.
Speaker 2: I keep saying six, it's really only four. Uh, everybody,
Speaker 2: everybody in my mentions and my replies, Alex is telling
Speaker 2: me that they should just draft Marvin Harrison junior. That's
Speaker 2: that's the that's the hot, that's the take right now,
Speaker 2: right like, don't make a mistake, don't take the quarterback.
Speaker 2: Take Marvin Harrison junior because he's the best player. That's
Speaker 2: a take.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I get it, especially with their history wide receiver.
Speaker 1: You see a guy who's potentially can't miss, and it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, here we go. You know, finally they're gonna
Speaker 1: have a good receiver. I would say he's not. And
Speaker 1: here's a big point people make, Well, Harrison Junior is
Speaker 1: a guarantee. The quarterbacks aren't guarantees. Harrison Junior may be
Speaker 1: less likely to be a bust, but no prospects are guarantee. No,
Speaker 1: not one prospect is a guarantee. Not one prospect has
Speaker 1: ever been a guarantee. They're still inherent risk with it.
Speaker 1: And are is Marvin Harrison, you know, Patriots development proofers?
Speaker 1: Is it the other way around or are they that awful?
Speaker 2: Well, so I don't think they need he needs to
Speaker 2: be developed, Like I think that he's as ready as
Speaker 2: any receiver I've ever seen. But but but I think
Speaker 2: the differences and you know, like this time of year,
Speaker 2: those like memes start going around right where it's like
Speaker 2: a quarterback getting killed in the pocket as Marvin Harrison
Speaker 2: Junior is standing like jumping up and down, or it's
Speaker 2: like the quarterback is very well protected, Marvin Harrison Junior
Speaker 2: is wide open, but it's like Bailey's appy. Yeah, so wait,
Speaker 2: which one would you rather? And I think the problem
Speaker 2: is is that you can have Marvin Harrison Junior and
Speaker 2: you will have a stud wide receiver right out of
Speaker 2: the gate. He will be he will walk on to
Speaker 2: this field during training camp and he will be by
Speaker 2: far the best player on the field. I have no
Speaker 2: doubt about that. And watching him and Christian Gonzales go
Speaker 2: one on one together for six weeks in the summer
Speaker 2: will make every single Patriots fan giddy like there's that's
Speaker 2: Sauce Gardner and Garrett Wilson right, like iron sharpens iron.
Speaker 1: And where the love it.
Speaker 2: But you are the Jets right because you have no
Speaker 2: offensive line and you have no quarterback to throw them
Speaker 2: the ball, and you're not even as good as the Jets,
Speaker 2: because at least they have Aaron Rodgers with a bum Achilles,
Speaker 2: Like you don't even have that.
Speaker 1: So well, you know, best case scenario, you have Kirk
Speaker 1: Cousins on a bum Achillies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have Kirk Cousins. You have Justin Fields, you
Speaker 2: have right, one of those guys. We got an email
Speaker 2: like with a couple of Gardner Minshew who is the
Speaker 2: other ones Jake Browning? Jake Browning is a backup quarterback. Baker.
Speaker 2: Mayfield is like obviously the one Baker.
Speaker 1: If you can get any Baker and then take Marvin
Speaker 1: third overall, like I I could buy you into that,
Speaker 1: but again, the entire front office should be fired if
Speaker 1: Tampa doesn't have Baker back next year. So the point
Speaker 1: being is that Andry, I'm not good at memes. No, sorry,
Speaker 1: let me just say no, I would not trade the
Speaker 1: third overall pick for Baker because I know people are
Speaker 1: say that.
Speaker 2: But that's not a real thing. That's like that call
Speaker 2: we had earlier about trading the median load of the
Speaker 2: Vikings for their first round pick. No, you you were
Speaker 2: better at making memes than me, so like maybe you
Speaker 2: can do this, and plus like as a company man,
Speaker 2: I probably shouldn't, but like, make like Mac Jones and
Speaker 2: Bailey Zappy the quarterback. Yeah, make them getting killed in
Speaker 2: the pocket because they have no offensive line, right, and
Speaker 2: then just make Marvin Harrison Junior jumping up and down
Speaker 2: like I'm wide open down here. Like that's what you're
Speaker 2: gonna get, at least for the first year.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And now the argument on the other side is is that, Okay,
Speaker 2: so Marvin Harrison Junior by himself probably doesn't make you
Speaker 2: much better. So you're gonna be drafting in the top
Speaker 2: ten again next year, and you just draft Shador Sanders
Speaker 2: next year, right, like or whatever. I just that I
Speaker 2: feel like is very risky because you're at there, you're
Speaker 2: beholden to the quarterback class. Then what if it's a
Speaker 2: Kenny Pickett quarterback class? Like what if Shador Sanders the
Speaker 2: second half of the year is actually what he ends
Speaker 2: up being next year?
Speaker 1: Also? Or who knows, you have a very weak schedule
Speaker 1: this year, maybe you roll off six wins, seven wins,
Speaker 1: and now you're not arranged to take one of those guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so when you have a chance to get the quarterback,
Speaker 1: you get the quarterback. To your point, and people say well,
Speaker 1: now you're beholding to the wide receiver class next year.
Speaker 1: A couple things on that last year was down yere.
Speaker 1: Generally college football's turning out wide receivers. They might not
Speaker 1: be Marvin Harrison, but you're gonna get. Really Marvin Harrison's
Speaker 1: not the last wide receiver prospect ever to be available
Speaker 1: in the NFL. I feel like some people need to
Speaker 1: remind themselves.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, you're still gonna get the Roma Dunze,
Speaker 2: Malik Neighbors, Kean Coleman, who.
Speaker 1: Can all be very very very good player. And I
Speaker 1: think those guys will be. There's gonna be multiple All
Speaker 1: Pro receivers in this class. I'll just tell you right now.
Speaker 1: You know who went back to school a Mecca Buca,
Speaker 1: who's the next Ohio State guy who some people thought
Speaker 1: was gonna be better than Harrison. Now he kind of
Speaker 1: got screwed because Ohio State's quarterback player was terrible this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it didn't matter, He's going back. But uh, Tory, well know,
Speaker 1: his numbers were down. I mean they're still very good,
Speaker 1: but they were down. Tory Horton, who the caller mentioned,
Speaker 1: is gonna be in the class next year. Mario willat
Speaker 1: Yams from usc who was Caleb Williams number one? Sort
Speaker 1: at number one? I know Rice was up there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so is he the he's the quick guy, right,
Speaker 2: he's the quick slot guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: If they didn't have like Pop Douglas already on the team,
Speaker 2: he would be intriguing.
Speaker 1: I like them.
Speaker 2: I like him.
Speaker 1: They're like, like, there's gonna be guys next year, and again,
Speaker 1: you can still pay people. T Higgins is still an option.
Speaker 1: Mike Evans is still an option.
Speaker 2: You were in the trade markets still right, option?
Speaker 1: You were not going, right, there's always one. We didn't
Speaker 1: know Tyreek Hill was available until he was like at
Speaker 1: this point that year. That's not gonna happen at quarter
Speaker 1: it's you're not gonna get a T. Higgins equivalent at
Speaker 1: quarterback and free agency, you're not going to get what
Speaker 1: receiver gets traded. I don't know a J. Brown eight right,
Speaker 1: thank you? You're not gonna get an A J. Brown
Speaker 1: kind of quarterback.
Speaker 2: Am I crazy? Just like on this topic, and I
Speaker 2: know we're all over the classic? Am I crazy to
Speaker 2: kind of want Davonte Smith more?
Speaker 7: Hmm?
Speaker 2: I love a J. Brown.
Speaker 3: A J.
Speaker 2: Brown is a really really good player. He's probably the
Speaker 2: best man coverage beater in the league, just because he's
Speaker 2: got the speed, the toughness, the ability had to catch point.
Speaker 2: I just I think Deavante Smith, even in like a
Speaker 2: Bill O'Brien Josh McDaniel's offense, I think he's so I utilize.
Speaker 1: I see where you're coming from. I I want to
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't want this to come across like
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I would take Pop Douglas over Devonte Smith
Speaker 1: like obviously, No, obviously, Like I would take Davante Smith
Speaker 1: in a heartbeat, but like that it's a really good replacement.
Speaker 1: But that feels like more of a replacement. I want
Speaker 1: to know.
Speaker 2: I think Pop Douglas is a true slot.
Speaker 1: Is it all right?
Speaker 2: So you're gonna play a gadget slot? So I would
Speaker 2: play I think Pop Douglas.
Speaker 1: I want. I want that, really, I want that six
Speaker 1: foot five, two hundred pound on the outside is gonna
Speaker 1: bully every single corner he faces. Because I because I
Speaker 1: grew up watching Randy Mark, and because I grew up
Speaker 1: watching because I grew up watching Terrell Owens, and because
Speaker 1: I grew up watching Isaac Bruce, and that's the kind
Speaker 1: of receiver I like, I want a guy to go
Speaker 1: out there who is just a DK Metcalf, yes, and
Speaker 1: just bully the crap out of corners for sixty minutes.
Speaker 1: I have the small, shifty guys are fun, and I
Speaker 1: like Pop Douglas and I want them to have that
Speaker 1: guy too. But when it comes to wide receiver, for me,
Speaker 1: give me the big guy on the outside who's just
Speaker 1: bullying everybody. It's just the most fun to me. And
Speaker 1: I think that guy more than anybody else helps a
Speaker 1: young quarterback.
Speaker 2: That explains a lot, like it's all about separation, man,
Speaker 2: Like you gotta get open, like it, get.
Speaker 1: It, Dode. These guys not get open.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying, Harry get open, catch the ball.
Speaker 1: Does AJ Brown not get open? Not get open?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, those guys get open.
Speaker 1: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm saying those guys are in like a different
Speaker 2: like those guys are elite.
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. Like, if we're talking about
Speaker 1: I can add two elite receivers of both ninety nine
Speaker 1: overalls in Madden, Right.
Speaker 2: You would rather a J Brown than tyreek Kill.
Speaker 1: Basic, Well, tyreek Kill's tyreek Kill.
Speaker 2: He's his own, Okay, but you would rather, I don't
Speaker 2: know that's the best way like to think of, Like I.
Speaker 1: Would rather a J. Brown than DeVante Smith. Basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think a J.
Speaker 2: Brown is a better player. I just think I look
Speaker 2: at the way that's the Eagles. A lot of things
Speaker 2: have come out about the Eagles offense, not that this
Speaker 2: is Eagles Catch twenty two Eagles edition, but the Eagles
Speaker 2: they use like the least amount of pre snap motion
Speaker 2: of almost any team in the league. I think they
Speaker 2: were thirty first in the league in it. So I
Speaker 2: look at Devontae Smith and I think about remember the
Speaker 2: Patriots used to use Julian Edelman where like he's coming
Speaker 2: into stack alignments late, he's motioning cross formation, he's always
Speaker 2: on the move, like he's his chest piece that's always
Speaker 2: on the move, and they would just hunt free releases
Speaker 2: for him all over the field. Like the Eagles don't
Speaker 2: do that stuff for Devonte Smith for like, God only
Speaker 2: knows why. I have no clue. I can't explain it.
Speaker 2: If you put DeVante Smith in an offense where he's
Speaker 2: the Z he's the off of flanker, off the line
Speaker 2: receiver flanker that can move around all the time. And
Speaker 2: now you're motioning him all over the place, and you're
Speaker 2: changing his alignment pre snap and all this stuff. He's
Speaker 2: gonna just be able to just run routes like it's
Speaker 2: gonna be like seven on seven, right. And I just
Speaker 2: feel like the Eagles get the most out of Devonte
Speaker 2: Smith in their system, but their system for him kind
Speaker 2: of stinks like it really so he's just that talent.
Speaker 1: You just want Smith because you want to save him
Speaker 1: from the Eagles.
Speaker 2: I want DeVante Smith because I think that there's an
Speaker 2: even more, like there's another level for him is.
Speaker 1: A and I think there is too. I just I
Speaker 1: don't know. And again I would take if the Eagles say, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll trade you DeVante Smith, we won't trade you a J. Brown,
Speaker 1: you know, same similar package. I would say, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say.
Speaker 2: It goes back to what I said earlier about Jacoby Myers.
Speaker 2: But first round edition, right, DeVante Smith is first round
Speaker 2: Jacoby Myers. Like he's all the shiftiness, all the ability
Speaker 2: to read the field, all the instincts for football, the
Speaker 2: catch point stuff, which I think Jacoby was underrated on
Speaker 2: with speed.
Speaker 1: So who's first that's a bad one. They haven't even
Speaker 1: come close. I was gonna say, like it was first
Speaker 1: round to kill Harry, Like you get what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like that's the problem, right, is that they they've never
Speaker 1: gone like Taekwon Thornton is is a burner. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, who's first metcalf Right, he's a field stretcher,
Speaker 1: like he's his own thing, you know, And that's not
Speaker 1: the kill Harry is your guy, like let's just bully people.
Speaker 1: But no, because I want a guy that can run
Speaker 1: a two left route tree like I want a good
Speaker 1: version of that player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's that's the guy. A good version of
Speaker 2: that player is the guy that they've been chasing, right,
Speaker 2: like they they Chad Jackson, Nikhil Harry, Like you know that's.
Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm saying is I have no
Speaker 1: problem with them chasing that guy. Just figure it out.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 1: But then again, I've also said I would love Xavier Worthy,
Speaker 1: who is very DeVante Smith.
Speaker 2: That's why I like Xavier Worthy.
Speaker 1: Look, at the end of the day, I want a
Speaker 1: good receiver.
Speaker 2: Xavier worthies thinks because he's like trapped and that he's
Speaker 2: not You're not You're definitely not taking him at three
Speaker 2: and I don't think he's making it to thirty four,
Speaker 2: so you're kind of trapped.
Speaker 1: No, because I think he might be like a late
Speaker 1: twenties guy. You might be able to move up and
Speaker 1: get him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like we have to. I have to
Speaker 2: see it to believe it that they're going to operate
Speaker 2: differently in terms of moving up the draft board.
Speaker 1: All right, but just for the sake of if we're
Speaker 1: having the conversation, when we have it, I think Xavier
Speaker 1: Worthy he's gonna be in that same range as Brian Thomas,
Speaker 1: where You're right, I don't think you get him at
Speaker 1: thirty four. Can you get up to twenty six, twenty
Speaker 1: seven to twenty eight and maybe get one of those guys?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think that that's there's a world where they can
Speaker 1: have both, you know, either Drake may or Jane Daniels
Speaker 1: and Xavier Worthy or Brian Thomas. I think that's a
Speaker 1: very realistic conversation. I like that.
Speaker 2: All right, Zach, let's get back to the phones. Zach
Speaker 2: is in California. What's up, Zach?
Speaker 1: It's up, Zach?
Speaker 2: Zach going once I left him on hold too long?
Speaker 2: All right, Nacho's in Connecticut. I would assume what's up?
Speaker 1: Not Joe, hellop not Joe. You guys know how this works.
Speaker 2: We talk all right, I'm gonna cut you off before
Speaker 2: before the the tone. A couple of emails here, one email.
Speaker 2: This is a long one, so I'm just gonna kind
Speaker 2: of sift through it.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: The Oregon combo Bone Nicks and Troy Franklin. Oh boy,
Speaker 2: I don't think that that that one's weird because both
Speaker 2: those guys are kind of projected to go around the
Speaker 2: same range of the draft, either one of them.
Speaker 1: Early My comps for those.
Speaker 2: Two is Troy Franklin, Tykwon Thornton.
Speaker 1: He might be a little better, but like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Mac Jones and Takwon Thornton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not that far off.
Speaker 1: You're right, and like, like look, and I even said
Speaker 1: this at the time because I liked Taekwon Thornton in
Speaker 1: that draft. I don't like him for I don't like
Speaker 1: where the Patriots took him or the role they took
Speaker 1: him for. Right, is Troy Franklin worth a top one
Speaker 1: hundred picky? Yes, Let some other team figure Troy Franklin out.
Speaker 1: The Patriots don't need to try to figure Troy Franklin out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I at that point, if you think you can figure
Speaker 1: that guy out, just fixed Taekwon.
Speaker 2: I watching him just while watching Nicks. Yeah, you can't
Speaker 2: the frame, the one track speed right, Like it's just
Speaker 2: he's just a field stretching rail thin receiver and I'm
Speaker 2: just you can't take time.
Speaker 8: Like.
Speaker 2: There's obviously other examples that are of guys that have succeeded,
Speaker 2: but frankly, in that body type, it's not very a
Speaker 2: long list like guys that are guy Smith, Yeah, but
Speaker 2: DeVante Smith plays differently than those guys, like the guys
Speaker 2: that are six three one eighty soaking with like Taekwon
Speaker 2: Thornton that succeeded in the league. Uh, not a very
Speaker 2: long list like the the really the guys that have
Speaker 2: succeeded at that side, it's like that way are like
Speaker 2: either Devonte Smith yeah, or like probably the closest ones
Speaker 2: like a DeShawn Jackson. But Sean Jackson was so much shiftier.
Speaker 2: He also played fluid and like just had so much
Speaker 2: better body contry. I mean, I don't want to feel
Speaker 2: this old, but he played like ten years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I know he retired like two years ago,
Speaker 2: but when he was, you know, good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I again, I don't hate Trey Franklin as a player.
Speaker 1: Let somebody else figure him out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the email did say Trey down and then
Speaker 2: you know, try to position yourself for the Oregon doubled it.
Speaker 1: So I don't know how that would work, Yeah, regardless
Speaker 1: of all. But you'd have to make a couple of trades.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So the other part of this email is
Speaker 2: that he's disappointed in this is uh Josh in Falls.
Speaker 2: Where's Turner Falls. I don't even I grew up here.
Speaker 2: I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Uh, it's probably Western mass right, yeah, probably, yeah, in
Speaker 1: northwest Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: I mean you drive right through Western mass to go
Speaker 2: to Ithaca College. Well, that's the furthest west of Worcester
Speaker 2: I've ever been. That's driving to Ithaca.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's the home of Brett Socks Legendrico Portgona. No idea,
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: He says he's disappointed, and this is Josh speaking. He's
Speaker 2: disappointed that Patriots don't need defense because he loves Jared
Speaker 2: Verse from Florida.
Speaker 1: Dude, there's so many players in this draft that I'm like,
Speaker 1: so Jared versus one Dallas Turner's another picking this high.
Speaker 1: Cameron Kitchens from Miami's really the one though, Like I
Speaker 1: look at Camera Kitchens his safety Yeah modern Devin mccordy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like he's a little bit bigger, he's got some more
Speaker 1: box Like you put that guy on the back end
Speaker 1: of your defense and you don't have to worry about
Speaker 1: a thing. He's highly instinctive, he's very smart. He can
Speaker 1: cover a ton of ground. Like he's gonna be a falcon. Right,
Speaker 1: Bill goes to Falcons. This guy's gonna be a falcon.
Speaker 1: They're gonna put him next to Jesse Bates And that's
Speaker 1: Devin mccordy and Patrick Chung right there. I really wish
Speaker 1: we could talk about Cameron Kitchens as a patriot because
Speaker 1: boy is he fun to watch. Boy does he do
Speaker 1: some of the things they need done on that defense.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean he's gonna be a first round pick.
Speaker 1: If not, you know, he'll be top fifty for sure.
Speaker 1: He'll probably end up a first round pick. They just
Speaker 1: can't afford to take a safety in that spot. Three
Speaker 1: four years or four or five years fromw when he's
Speaker 1: a free agent. Yeah, I'll be paunding on the table
Speaker 1: for Cameron Kitchens.
Speaker 2: So Jared Versus a fun player like Jared versus Violet Angry,
Speaker 2: just explosive upper body. Yeah, I think that big dude,
Speaker 2: who is the guy that Raiders drafted last year for
Speaker 2: some reason. It's it's escaping me the first round guy
Speaker 2: Edge Rusher.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 2: It'll come to me in a second. You can look
Speaker 2: it up. He's like, if that ty Wilson, Tyree Wilson. Yeah,
Speaker 2: He's like, if Tyree Wilson had to get off right,
Speaker 2: like if you could have if he that guy had
Speaker 2: first step explosiveness and the power, and like that was
Speaker 2: the thing about Tyree Wilson. Why he hasn't and he
Speaker 2: had a horrible rookie year with the Raiders is because
Speaker 2: he's he's got lead feet, like he's got he's got
Speaker 2: no quickness, but he just was like the Hulk and
Speaker 2: would just like throw people to the ground. That works
Speaker 2: in college. Jared Verse has like a motor and the
Speaker 2: and the Hulk power, but he also got.
Speaker 1: This edge class is so fun. Dallas Turner lay to
Speaker 1: lot to Verse, Chop Robinson, Braylan Trice.
Speaker 2: Chop Robinson's just a great name. I mean he's got
Speaker 2: to have a cross chop, right, Like, that's why the things.
Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't watched him a ton because this
Speaker 1: is just where Penn State guys. They wouldn't take him anyway.
Speaker 2: But all right, here's another another long one from Tom
Speaker 2: in the UK.
Speaker 1: So uh, real name Chop Robinson.
Speaker 2: By the way, So here's Tom in the UK. This
Speaker 2: is actually pretty newsworthy right now because I just saw
Speaker 2: a tweet that the Bears are interviewing Zach Robinson for
Speaker 2: their offensive coordinator position. The Bears are interviewing Zach Robinson.
Speaker 1: No hire Roman, Greg Roman?
Speaker 2: Yeah right. I I love the idea of Zach Robinson
Speaker 2: and the reason, like it's not even about the fact
Speaker 2: that he played here. The reason why I like that
Speaker 2: he played here is because they might actually hire him
Speaker 2: because they know who he is, right, Like, it's not
Speaker 2: it's an Adrian Clem situation, like they actually have a
Speaker 2: relationship with the guy. But I love the idea of
Speaker 2: Zach Robinson, who is kind of like, you know quarterback
Speaker 2: guy right obviously played quarterback like you know Kevin O'Connell ish, right,
Speaker 2: like in just that sort of thing. That's what you're
Speaker 2: going for a backup quarterback. You know, Kellen Moore, Kevin O'Connell,
Speaker 2: that that type of person with the McVeigh background, right,
Speaker 2: So you're bringing essentially you would hope that he would
Speaker 2: be bringing the McVeigh offense to New England and he
Speaker 2: would have that quarterback whisper thing. Before he got into
Speaker 2: actual coaching with the Rams, he was working at PFF,
Speaker 2: but he was also working as a quarterbacks consultant and
Speaker 2: like coach, like a Jordan Palmer type, Quincy Avery, Jordan Palmer,
Speaker 2: those types of guys. So this is a guy that
Speaker 2: not only could build your offense like the Rams have,
Speaker 2: but he would also be able to really develop your quarterback.
Speaker 2: And when I say really, I mean like footwork and
Speaker 2: mechanics and like you wouldn't need to send this guy
Speaker 2: to Jordan Palmer because you would have your own Jordan
Speaker 2: Palmer in house.
Speaker 1: You have like a true quarterback coach.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the idea of Zach Robinson and the
Speaker 2: fact that they haven't kicked the tires on him. It
Speaker 2: makes me upset. Hopefully that's they're still playing things close
Speaker 2: to the vest like they did in the Belichick era,
Speaker 2: and we're just gonna kind of find out about it,
Speaker 2: But I really love the idea of Zach Robinson. I
Speaker 2: think that that would be my probably my well, my
Speaker 2: dream high would be Cliff but that's not happening, So
Speaker 2: my second one would be would be Zach Robinson.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he'd be a great higher. He'd be up
Speaker 1: there again, like you said, he's gonna bring a lot
Speaker 1: of those modern elements you want. I think a true quarterback.
Speaker 1: They haven't really had a true quarterbacks coach. They've had
Speaker 1: some offensive coordinators who are also you know, experienced with quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: but they haven't had a true quarterbacks coach here in
Speaker 1: a while.
Speaker 2: Okay, this email, Alex says, Kean Coleman is Nikhil Harry
Speaker 2: two point zero.
Speaker 1: I mean he might be.
Speaker 2: That's you know, that's that's kind of how I feel.
Speaker 1: Floor ceiling T Higgins. Nikhil Harry, That's kind of how
Speaker 1: I feel the way around stealing floor T Higgins.
Speaker 2: And I also wants to know and he says, Troy
Speaker 2: Franklins better than Taekwon Thornton. I think he might be too.
Speaker 1: But that's better, but the same kind of player.
Speaker 2: And the last point he makes Ladd McConkie, No, Lad,
Speaker 2: come on, I have come on, give me your Lad
Speaker 2: McConkie take. He's not a bad player because he Okay,
Speaker 2: so let me ask you this about Lad McConkie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna go with I'm gonna give you two
Speaker 2: white stereotypes, and you tell me which one he's closer to. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: Jordy Nelson and Cooper Cup. I mean he's he's probably
Speaker 2: closer to Jordy Nelson. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know he's he's so Georgia's offensive
Speaker 1: line and run game have been dominant for years. You
Speaker 1: don't get a lot of complex coverages against Georgia. You're
Speaker 1: pretty much one on one if you're a receiver for
Speaker 1: and then you throw brock Bowers into it as well.
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of help over the top because
Speaker 1: the tight ends are worried about. They're the safeties. He
Speaker 1: worried about the tight end. Like does Ladd McConkie do
Speaker 1: some nice things? Yes? Like can he be as serviceable
Speaker 1: NFL player? Yes? You know who he actually kind of
Speaker 1: reminds me a little bit of is Chris Hogan. He's
Speaker 1: not quite as fast, but that kind of guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just as a second round pick don't. I don't
Speaker 1: think Ladd McConkie's ever going to be a wide receiver one. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's ever gonna happen. I like the
Speaker 1: he's like draft the bolek Chris Hogan. I do like
Speaker 1: that kind of He's not quite as fast Hogan was
Speaker 1: sneaky fast. I I don't think he's got that kind
Speaker 1: of top uh top.
Speaker 2: I also like if you're looking for ceiling, like I
Speaker 2: do think Jordy Nelson's probably the comp.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even Jordy Nelson was never really a true
Speaker 1: wide receiver one was he?
Speaker 2: Uh No? Because they it wasn't DeVante Adams yet, but
Speaker 2: they had they had somebody else in those packer teams
Speaker 2: on the outside. It's not I don't remember.
Speaker 1: I can't remember either, but like they it wasn't real.
Speaker 2: Cob it might have been. They definitely overlapped, but there
Speaker 2: was somebody else on the Maybe it was like the
Speaker 2: end of Donald Driver or something like that. Right, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's not the point.
Speaker 1: Like if I'm taking a guy in the top sixty, oh,
Speaker 1: Greg Jennings.
Speaker 2: Greg Jennings was Greg Jennings, Greg Greg jens the team
Speaker 2: on his back.
Speaker 1: Though forgot it all time. Great great YouTube video that
Speaker 1: was awesome. I I just don't can Lad McConkie be
Speaker 1: like a good reliable wide receiver two Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: so he's never gonna be that coverage dictating Tuesday morning
Speaker 1: receiver on just not taking that guy in the top
Speaker 1: fifty lot he doesn't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's a third round pick.
Speaker 1: I think late third round. Yeah, might be. I'm not
Speaker 1: taking him unless he who what are the pay peop
Speaker 1: on saying, who is that guy gonna have like sixty
Speaker 1: unless he like puts down like a four to three
Speaker 1: out of nowhere and you're like or something like that,
Speaker 1: And we just at missing the speed because he plays
Speaker 1: differently because some guys they they don't always run a
Speaker 1: hundred at one hundred miles an hour, right like.
Speaker 2: They they played more of like a varied shifty game
Speaker 2: where they kind of tempo speeds and things like that.
Speaker 2: That's what helps them get open that good receivers do that.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to run one hundred miles
Speaker 2: an hour. I think that's a problem that Taekwon Thornton has. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like you just got to slow down sometimes and
Speaker 2: then you know when to use your superpower and when
Speaker 2: not to. I think that's part of the reason what
Speaker 2: makes Tyreek Kill so ridiculous is like he can just
Speaker 2: hit the throttle at any time and you think he's
Speaker 2: moving at one hundred percent, but he's not. He's moving
Speaker 2: at like seventy five. All right, Alex, we got the
Speaker 2: email from Ari. What about J J McCarthy. We're gonna
Speaker 2: get this email like a thousand times between now and
Speaker 2: in April twenty eighth. JJ McCarthy, I.
Speaker 1: Tweeted out Win Zavin he wins I tuned.
Speaker 2: It out the other day that he uh, it blows
Speaker 2: my mind that somebody who I really really respect a
Speaker 2: ton in the draft community and Dan Brugler has JJ
Speaker 2: McCarthy as a late first round pick. I I don't
Speaker 2: see it. So I'm not trying to crap on the guy.
Speaker 2: I just don't see it.
Speaker 1: Let me say this, I see I could see a
Speaker 1: team taking him in the first round because NFL teams
Speaker 1: are bad at the draft. He's not a FIR, he
Speaker 1: shouldn't be a first round pick. But I can see
Speaker 1: an NFO. He went to Michigan, he won a national championship. Look,
Speaker 1: he moves around like, yeah, I can see a team
Speaker 1: getting all hot and bothered over him. I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 1: I think I'm actually higher on JJ McCarthy than you are.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: So he's sitting there in like the nineties and you
Speaker 1: can trade back up in like one of the compics
Speaker 1: late in the third. He's not a bad project player.
Speaker 2: I do you know his.
Speaker 1: Size, his athleticism. He is super young. If you maybe
Speaker 1: not not for the Patriots obviously obviously because they're not
Speaker 1: in this position, but if you're a team trying to
Speaker 1: like do the Jordan Love plan, yeah he would be
Speaker 1: a really not the first round again, Jordan Love's first
Speaker 1: round pick. I wouldn't do that. But if maybe it'd
Speaker 1: be more like Jalen Hurts. But if you're a team
Speaker 1: like the Packers where you know you only have X
Speaker 1: number of years left with Aaron Rodgers, or you're a
Speaker 1: team like the Jaguars or the Eagles where maybe you're
Speaker 1: not not the Eagles, the Jaguars or the Niners, where
Speaker 1: you're not sure if you're gonna bring that quarterback back,
Speaker 1: you're not sure you're gonna pay that quarterback, and you
Speaker 1: want to have a plan B. But you don't need
Speaker 1: him right now. Those are the teams for me that
Speaker 1: look at JJ McCarthy because he needs at least a year.
Speaker 1: It might be too it might be too for the Patriots.
Speaker 2: No, yes, so JJ McCarthy. I will admit that I
Speaker 2: had some biases going into watching him because of watching
Speaker 2: him live. Yeah, and I just couldn't.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't.
Speaker 2: I don't understand the guy sprays the ball all over
Speaker 2: the place. He has one pitch. It's a ninety nine
Speaker 2: mile on hour fastball, which bugs me more than some
Speaker 2: it bugs other people. I understand that I would need
Speaker 2: a quarterback that can throw multiple types of pitches. You
Speaker 2: need to fast if you have If you have a
Speaker 2: guy that's crossing over the middle of the field on
Speaker 2: mesh and he's eight yards away from you, I don't
Speaker 2: want you to throw it through him. I want you
Speaker 2: to lead him and put it softly, pillowy on his hands.
Speaker 2: I think that that was one of the most underrated
Speaker 2: aspects of Tom Brady's arm talent, is that he could
Speaker 2: throw it through the door or he could throw a
Speaker 2: nice pillowy touch pass. Yeah, that just like looked like
Speaker 2: the receiver just had no effort to have to catch it.
Speaker 2: That's that's my kind of guy. When JJ McCarthy in this,
Speaker 2: it leads to issues, especially when he's throwing outside the numbers.
Speaker 2: He needs to uncork it and he overthrows the ball
Speaker 2: so it goes ten yards over the guy's head. He
Speaker 2: has a lot of issues with the way that he
Speaker 2: can control the football. And I worry about guys like
Speaker 2: that because that's a really hard thing to deven is
Speaker 2: multiple pitches.
Speaker 1: So again, my comp form is Zach Wilson. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: and and so because I do floor ceiling to be
Speaker 1: fair ceiling brock party. If you put him around a
Speaker 1: ton of talent like he has a Michigan, he's gonna
Speaker 1: be able to operate and he might give.
Speaker 2: You comp is way way meaner.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember who he Oh, okay, I'll let
Speaker 1: you get to the second. But at the end of
Speaker 1: Zach wilt like J. J. McCarthy's gonna go to the
Speaker 1: Pro day and he's gonna do the thing where he's
Speaker 1: in shorts and a T shirt and he rolls to
Speaker 1: the left and then comes back to the right and
Speaker 1: flips his hips and throws the ball seventy yards. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. Throw is if every single quarterback in the
Speaker 1: last five years hasn't made that throw At his pro day,
Speaker 1: Anthony Richardson's hit the ceiling right. Anthony Richardson's was actually impressive,
Speaker 1: but Zach Wilson didn't ever resign. Oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is why the Jets are taking Zach Wilson second overall.
Speaker 1: It's like because he can throw in shorts. So I
Speaker 1: just I see so much as Zach Wilson. Rich this
Speaker 1: guy that's like one tab does this uber competitor? I
Speaker 1: don't see it. Yeah, I don't see it. Zach Wilson.
Speaker 1: Any team, time, place except Coastal Carolina wouldn't go down
Speaker 1: and face my guy. Grace and McCall In the COVID year,
Speaker 1: I think, like you said, Zach Wilson, everything came out
Speaker 1: of his hands a million miles an hour. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there's also I in the big games, they took it
Speaker 1: out of his hands. Now that's a little different, Zack Wilson.
Speaker 1: Zach Wilson had the ball in his hands late in
Speaker 1: games and choked, specifically against Coastal when he finally played them.
Speaker 1: JJ McCarthy. It's not a great and I know, Harboss
Speaker 1: says all the stuff. Oh, he's the best Michigan quarterback
Speaker 1: since Tom Brady won that bar super low right now
Speaker 1: that title is held by Chad Henny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Tom Brady in college was not tom Brady
Speaker 2: yet And and some of that was circumstance, like I
Speaker 2: know that the story, but like.
Speaker 1: Even even besides, like all right, cool, you better than
Speaker 1: Chad Henny. Congratulations, it's not high bar. Also it you know,
Speaker 1: don't talk about it, be about it. If JJ McCarthy
Speaker 1: was that good, why'd he only throw eight times against
Speaker 1: Penn State? Why'd you take the ball out of his
Speaker 1: hands late against Ohio State? Why did you take the
Speaker 1: ball out of his hands in the playoff? Like, yeah, Harbaugh,
Speaker 1: Well I guess, Harbor, he's a really good Ohio State game.
Speaker 1: Harriball wasn't calling, But.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a really good fit. And I'll give my
Speaker 2: competence second, but he's a really good fit if you
Speaker 2: run like a downhill power run game where all he's
Speaker 2: got to do is throw off of like play action
Speaker 2: and moving pockets right right, you know, it's kind of shanahany,
Speaker 2: Like every quarterback could fit in the Shanahan scheme. So
Speaker 2: I hate saying like, oh, just put him with Kyle Shanahan, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: everybody's gonna look, you know, decent if you if you're
Speaker 2: worth a damn in the league, like Sam Darnold look
Speaker 2: good in the preseason playing in the forty nine ers offense.
Speaker 2: The point is is that he is. Yeah, like if
Speaker 2: you open passing windows for him to throw in between
Speaker 2: the numbers with play action, he has made some decent
Speaker 2: throws if you.
Speaker 1: Make it easy for him. He's capable and he can.
Speaker 1: The one thing he does well is throw off platform.
Speaker 1: He doesn't always need to set his feet to deliver
Speaker 1: the ball. So yeah, if you're rolling him out a
Speaker 1: ton and you have guys that can you talk about
Speaker 1: Roman Wilson his ability to create after the can you
Speaker 1: know how I feel that Blake corm and done. Even
Speaker 1: Edwards went back to school, So you only have to
Speaker 1: hear me talk about one of them for the next
Speaker 1: four months.
Speaker 2: The one that's gonna go higher, Like no, we're not,
Speaker 2: We're not doing this.
Speaker 1: Some people thought they might go back to back, some
Speaker 1: people had them as RB's two and three, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I just for what the Patriots need. He's you couldn't
Speaker 1: be further of a fit. So what can I get
Speaker 1: my give your comment? Remember who my mean comm for J.
Speaker 2: J McCarthy Mitchell Trubisky. And people are gonna hear that.
Speaker 1: That are especially the Michigan fans, and they're the pitchforks
Speaker 1: are gonna come out, are so protective the Wolverines are
Speaker 1: coming out.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. If Mitchell Trubisky was drafted as
Speaker 2: like a day two project quarterback that I'm not saying
Speaker 2: he would have been like a Hall of Famer. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying his career in the like reputation that he
Speaker 2: holds is much different.
Speaker 1: It would be decent.
Speaker 2: The problem was is that he was drafted third overall,
Speaker 2: ahead from the Patrick Mahomes and Deshaan Waton wants that right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so like that's that's it's a different conversation. So I
Speaker 2: would take JJ McCarthy in like the middle rounds, not
Speaker 2: the second. I probably wouldn't take the would late third. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I would take him in the middle rock and see
Speaker 2: if he develops into something fine. In a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: I look at him and like you know, just from
Speaker 2: like the spot and all, like Davis Mills Ish right,
Speaker 2: like third fourth, Rod got some tools, got some ability, Like,
Speaker 2: let's see what happens. Oh, I have No, I'm not
Speaker 2: saying he's playing style wise. He's got enough physical tools
Speaker 2: that I understand why people look at JJ McCarthy and
Speaker 2: say he could develop into something in the league.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 2: He's got a good arm, he's got mobility, he's got
Speaker 2: the throw on the run at of structure. Stuff like
Speaker 2: you mentioned is there. But he is extremely, extremely raw
Speaker 2: and inconsistent right now. So that's just why I'm not
Speaker 2: touching that type of player in the first round. You
Speaker 2: if your first round pick, you have to be able
Speaker 2: to do some stuff right out of the gate, right,
Speaker 2: and he's he's not all right. So the last couple
Speaker 2: of things, and then we got to wrap it up. Uh,
Speaker 2: somebody emailed in and I'm we talked about this to
Speaker 2: touch on it earlier, and I didn't. We didn't really
Speaker 2: hash it out. Uh, drawed Mayo. Ops, And of course
Speaker 2: I just deleted the email. Drawd Mayo.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Yesterday with Steve Burton his comments, so he said, and
Speaker 2: this is the quote. I think directly, it looks right,
Speaker 2: we are going to draft the best player for a position.
Speaker 2: That is very important. Dot dot dot. You put the
Speaker 2: pieces together. So a lot of people took this as
Speaker 2: it could mean anything. It could even be a boat, right,
Speaker 2: like who knows, Like it could be a receiver, It
Speaker 2: could be a tackle like that. You know, it could
Speaker 2: just mean premium position, but best player at a position
Speaker 2: that is very important. You put the pieces together. It's
Speaker 2: hard not to put the pieces together.
Speaker 1: Jirod and say, you just told us you're taking a quarterback,
Speaker 1: except he is a linebacker, maybe a lineback. No, no,
Speaker 1: I don't look it could mean premium position, which off
Speaker 1: ball linebacker no longer a premium position, by the way,
Speaker 1: it could be a premium position, or could mean tell
Speaker 1: that to him in quarterback take Jeremiah Trotter. Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of where I'm at, where maybe that is
Speaker 1: his way of saying premium because left tackle is a
Speaker 1: very important position. Yeah, and I know people are gonna
Speaker 1: cringe at that, but like, is that his way of
Speaker 1: saying premium? It seems too good to be true that
Speaker 1: he just told us he's taking a quarterback. Everything else
Speaker 1: tell me he told us that, But I'm like, he
Speaker 1: really just say it.
Speaker 2: So the difference is is that The only argument that
Speaker 2: I can have that maybe he really was talking quarterback.
Speaker 2: He wants to be different from Bill, right, And I
Speaker 2: think that there is gonna be a level of transparency
Speaker 2: that didn't exist in the Belichick era. If you look
Speaker 2: at other teams, maybe their head coach of the team
Speaker 2: is not coming out and saying we're taking a quarterback
Speaker 2: this year at the top of the draft. But these
Speaker 2: vague insinuations like was anybody confused about what Carolina did
Speaker 2: last year? Did anybody think that Carolina was not taking
Speaker 2: a quarterback at one?
Speaker 1: Overall?
Speaker 2: Like take Bryce Young and CJ Stride out of it,
Speaker 2: just like everyone knew that Carolina was taking a quarterback.
Speaker 2: I don't think Carolina hid the fact that they were
Speaker 2: taking a quarterback. Now they were one, so they had
Speaker 2: no competition. So I get that like telling people at
Speaker 2: three years old, now if like somebody wants one of them,
Speaker 2: they could jump you.
Speaker 1: I don't think there was any debate for Houston, which
Speaker 1: probably more I think.
Speaker 2: That we are not used to that this being us right, right.
Speaker 2: But the point is is that I think a lot
Speaker 2: of teams are a little bit more forward with the
Speaker 2: fact that, yeah, we're in the quarterback market.
Speaker 1: We'll be able to taking a quarterback. Even if you
Speaker 1: want to be more forward, if you're picking even as
Speaker 1: high as like seventh, eighth, ninth, you can't really be
Speaker 1: because you don't know what the board's gonna look like.
Speaker 2: Right, That's it.
Speaker 1: So some of it, I think is Mayo being more transparent.
Speaker 1: The other thing is it's just easier to say that
Speaker 1: when you're picking third in a draft with three quarterbacks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if there were two quarterbacks, Let's say Jane Daniels wasn't here,
Speaker 1: Drake Maay wasn't or Caleb Teams did to come out right,
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't say that. Maybe because you don't know
Speaker 1: who's going to be on the board there, it's easier
Speaker 1: to just positioning aside whoever's making the pick, positioning aside.
Speaker 1: It's it's easier to say that when you're picking in
Speaker 1: the top three.
Speaker 2: All right, as we wrap it up. Let's wrap it
Speaker 2: up on this as of today, January eighteenth, because we
Speaker 2: talked a lot about obviously for good reason. You know,
Speaker 2: Bill Gerrodmeo, the coaching staff, the Tulius Caesar Julius Caesar,
Speaker 2: which it is at two, that is from Julius Caesar
Speaker 2: by the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, nobody was doubting that. It's just weird. You
Speaker 1: don't think he's a poet.
Speaker 2: All right, fine, I'll give you the poet thing, but
Speaker 2: you know what to give it to me. It's just
Speaker 2: a historical fact, dude, that's like fun.
Speaker 1: I'll give it to you. It's January eighteenth.
Speaker 2: It's not like January Alex Barth. Which quarterback are you taking?
Speaker 1: I mean, do I get Caleb Williams or is he
Speaker 1: off the board?
Speaker 2: Like, let's assume Caleb Williams is so it's May Daniels,
Speaker 2: but or mystery box?
Speaker 1: Uh so Joe Milton. People are gonna think I want
Speaker 1: them to take Joe Milton the first based on how
Speaker 1: much I talk about.
Speaker 2: Because every this is just funn This is all the
Speaker 2: question that I gets. I don't know about you, but.
Speaker 1: You want like January eighteenth. I'm still like slightly Jane Daniels,
Speaker 1: just because I think if you find a way to
Speaker 1: unlock his athleticism. Yep, you're talking about like a perennial
Speaker 1: MVP candidate and that excites me.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Now that's fair if you want it here, but here's
Speaker 1: where I'm at. You can make an argument for Drake May,
Speaker 1: and I'm not necessarily gonna say you're wrong. It's a
Speaker 1: flavor thing. At this point, I need more information. I'm
Speaker 1: very lightly Jade Daniels again, because that athleticism thing, I know,
Speaker 1: classic me. I won't nail down to take. But like
Speaker 1: it's flavored, they're different. I think they're both good. They're
Speaker 1: strong cases for both. It's just what do you've got.
Speaker 1: It's like the wide receiver thing we were talking about.
Speaker 1: I would take Devonte's answer.
Speaker 2: I tried to pin you down and get you tod,
Speaker 2: I said, Jane Daniels, Yeah, I know, but you're just
Speaker 2: if is that the other thing?
Speaker 1: You know? I'm just explaining it like I would take
Speaker 1: Jane Daniels. If Jane Daniels and Drake May were both
Speaker 1: on the board, I would take Jane Daniels. But if
Speaker 1: I were in the draft room and then nine other
Speaker 1: people said Drake May, I would say, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't necessarily put up that much of a
Speaker 1: fight about it.
Speaker 2: So I have a compound answer too. Oh boy, Okay,
Speaker 2: if we're running it back with Bill O'Brien, Josh mcci,
Speaker 2: that's obvious. So I'm going Drake May.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're getting the coordinator for the quarterback.
Speaker 2: If you're if you're running back the Patriots system, then
Speaker 2: Drake May and Drake May. The one thing I really
Speaker 2: like about Drake May is that he's really really good
Speaker 2: throwing to the middle of the field. Yeah, he's probably
Speaker 2: the best at like layering throws, hitting seam shots, manipulating
Speaker 2: coverage in the middle of the field. He has a
Speaker 2: really good control of the middle of the field, which
Speaker 2: is rare for a college quarterback. Like most college quarterbacks
Speaker 2: are like deep ball and then like athleticism, right, like
Speaker 2: that's sort of their thing. If it's that, I'm going
Speaker 2: Drake May. Uh, if they're gonna go outside the box
Speaker 2: and be creative and actually be different for once, then
Speaker 2: Jayden Daniels is my favorite quarterback out of this group
Speaker 2: just in terms of watching the guy, I just like
Speaker 2: watching him the most. So there's my cop out answer.
Speaker 2: I mean, but it's fair like we don't know who's
Speaker 2: going on our offense that matters. That's a part of
Speaker 2: the conversation, all right. I know we left a couple
Speaker 2: of callers on hold. Pu's about to start right now
Speaker 2: at noon, So they'll take your call on Patriots Unfiltered.
Speaker 2: Alex and I will be back next week, same time,
Speaker 2: same place for another episode of pat twenty two Senior
Speaker 2: Bowl Preview, and I will be in Mobile, so we'll
Speaker 2: talk to you guys. Then.
Speaker 1: Thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, Google Play,
Speaker 1: and everywhere else you listen.
Speaker 2: Like the show, please rate and review us.
Speaker 1: Listener comments and ratings help keep us high in the
Speaker 1: podcast rankings so new listeners can find us. Be sure
Speaker 1: to check Patriots dot com for more news and more
Speaker 1: podcasts