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Speaker 1: Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed zitron.

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Speaker 2: As a reminder, you can now by shirts, hoodies, and

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Speaker 2: even mugs in our merchandise store. There's a link in

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Speaker 2: the notes. God damn it, give me money. I need

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Speaker 2: you to wear the shirt.

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Speaker 3: For me today.

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by the new owners of gaming site Giant Bomb,

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Speaker 2: Jeff Backlar, Jeff grub and Dan Reikert Fellas. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 4: It's pronounce fair trying, okay, all right, yeah, okay, I'll speak.

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Speaker 2: I definitely on an interview a few days ago, miss

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Speaker 2: said my own name and miss said better I was

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Speaker 2: like a better off ship. And Matt Sawski, my producer,

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Speaker 2: regularly hears these things, so that's always fun. But congratulations,

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Speaker 2: by the way, So walk me through, Dan, perhaps walk

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Speaker 2: me through what happened. So there was some filing in

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Speaker 2: and out from Giant Bomb, and then you guys kind

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Speaker 2: of took it over.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so's I started the longest ago in like twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 5: So in terms of how the recent stuff went down,

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Speaker 5: I think the jeffs here Fellaws tell me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 5: I feel like you maybe have had some more time

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Speaker 5: on the phone lawyer.

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Speaker 6: I like watching this guy sweat.

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Speaker 1: Let's exactly.

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Speaker 5: I just wanted to make sure I didn't I'm not like,

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Speaker 5: oh yeah, this work. You know, It's like I just

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Speaker 5: kind of fell into this. No, Jeff and Jeff left Fandom,

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Speaker 5: our previous parent company, and as part of the deal,

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Speaker 5: were able to buy Giant Bomb and are bringing in

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Speaker 5: you know, me Jana Choa or longtime producer and our

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Speaker 5: good friend Mike Manatti who has been trying to be

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Speaker 5: full time at Giant Bomb for a long time and

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Speaker 5: he completely skipped full time and went straight from contractor

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Speaker 5: to co owner.

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Speaker 2: Of the websites.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, so yeah, long history of corporate ownership and

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Speaker 5: you know, digging back to two thousand and eight and

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Speaker 5: you know, four different owners basically, and now I guess

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Speaker 5: we are the fifth group.

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Speaker 2: Nice, So what is the new structure? So you guys

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Speaker 2: are all the owners, You're going to be doing the

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Speaker 2: same kind of games journalism you're already doing. I know

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Speaker 2: that the YouTube channel went offline. Is it coming back?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we were streaming of YouTube just right before we

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Speaker 4: came here. Yeah, we were doing our black club shows.

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Speaker 4: So right now the structure looks like are we getting

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Speaker 4: all the stuff from fandom that we need and they've

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Speaker 4: been very helpful and that stuff. But it's like just

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Speaker 4: kind of getting the keys to everything. And then there

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Speaker 4: is a whole other process of us getting a business

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Speaker 4: started because this wasn't like us necessarily buying the business.

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Speaker 4: We bought a lot of assets, so we have to

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Speaker 4: start our own business to sort of take these things

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Speaker 4: on and make it make sense. So in parallel, while

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Speaker 4: we were goofing off, well, Mike was playing Rascal for

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Speaker 4: the PlayStation one for our game for our show where

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Speaker 4: we played bad Games Backlar was still working in the

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Speaker 4: background making sure that we'll have a bank account and

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Speaker 4: stuff like that. But as far as like the overall

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Speaker 4: idea of what this company looks like, yeah, it's gonna

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Speaker 4: be us kind of taking it on all on ourselves,

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Speaker 4: kind of splitting it up evenly amongst us and just

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Speaker 4: getting to work and investing in our time and seeing

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Speaker 4: a payoff because now it's all on us.

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Speaker 2: It's weird as well, because it's like both one of

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Speaker 2: the most depressing times in games journalism history, I'm one

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Speaker 2: of the most encouraging because the amount of layoffs are horrifying,

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Speaker 2: but you and Atamath have really come out of well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to say nowhere, because it's been quite

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Speaker 2: public and chaotic. You kind of seem to be building

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Speaker 2: a new model for journalism writ large.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, well, yeah, I think like the thing that the

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Speaker 7: lesson everyone learned they learned like ten years ago, where

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Speaker 7: the sort of like contemporary understanding of games media or

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Speaker 7: really any media you know that covers some sort of

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Speaker 7: entertainment is probably not compatible with what a corporation would

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Speaker 7: need out of that in terms of like revenue expectations

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Speaker 7: and just you know, filing in in a way that

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Speaker 7: makes sense.

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Speaker 6: And that's fine.

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Speaker 7: And I think you know what this with the with

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Speaker 7: the Aftermath Experiment and all these other sort of independent

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Speaker 7: journalistic entities have sort of shown is that this can

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Speaker 7: work with a private sort of consideration of ownership as

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Speaker 7: opposed to you know, just having it be another asset

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Speaker 7: in the corporate media portfolio. Right that, And I think

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Speaker 7: the value that these types of entities present make a

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Speaker 7: lot more sense right under the guise of private ownership

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Speaker 7: than they do, you know, under the umbrella.

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Speaker 2: So kind of yeah, it kind of feels as well

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Speaker 2: like games journalism gets pulled in very hard by these

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Speaker 2: big private equity. I'm not specifically referring to any of them,

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Speaker 2: just to be clear, these large entities by them because

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Speaker 2: I imagine they're traffic drivers, and there's always news and

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Speaker 2: there's always kind of such traffic coming in games and.

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Speaker 4: Guides and stuff like that. These things have been honed

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Speaker 4: to be SEO, you know, sort of machines for a

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Speaker 4: long time. The people who've been in charge of them

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Speaker 4: have once understood that to be very important. Now, of course,

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Speaker 4: like Google has made things very complicated for a lot

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Speaker 4: of sites that built their sites in one way and

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Speaker 4: now they have to shift and no one really understands

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Speaker 4: the way the winds are blowing. But yeah, that traffic

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Speaker 4: means something to someone for sure, and that's why you

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Speaker 4: see something like a polygon becoming the target of a vow.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: I guess the public understanding is bound Net approached Vox

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Speaker 4: Media about polygon, and I asked them about it like

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Speaker 4: some time ago, and have been trying to make this

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Speaker 4: happen since then. Vox wasn't necessarily shopping around, but it

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Speaker 4: became the target of that because it does have this traffic.

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Speaker 4: It has this built in if you search for something,

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Speaker 4: there's a good chance Polygon is going to serve it

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Speaker 4: to you in the video game space. And yeah, so

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Speaker 4: these kind of equity firms they spot this and they

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Speaker 4: want to extract that value. It means bad things for

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Speaker 4: the actual people working at these sites almost universally every time.

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Speaker 1: And that's why this.

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Speaker 4: Other model of us coming and being like we're gonna

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Speaker 4: own it ourselves and we're gonna have a direct relationship

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Speaker 4: with the with the audience.

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Speaker 1: That kind of is the only ground to retreat to

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Speaker 1: at this point.

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Speaker 4: We are either going to keep having this stuff because

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Speaker 4: we're all in it together, as hopy as that sounds,

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Speaker 4: or we're just not gonna have it at all.

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Speaker 1: Those are the options now.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's also I think it's important to call out that, like,

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Speaker 7: there does exist a type of person that I think

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Speaker 7: we all sort of slot into in this goldilock zone

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Speaker 7: that has sat on both sides of the sort of

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Speaker 7: influential divide, where you know, we all began our careers

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Speaker 7: in a very kind of like I don't maybe not

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Speaker 7: antiquated is not the right word, but certainly a traditional

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Speaker 7: sort of like media and and and publisher relationship into

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Speaker 7: the relationship.

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Speaker 2: I worked I work CVG.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, and let's be honest, we're not that old, right,

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Speaker 8: Like we're you know, we're as young exactly. We see,

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Speaker 8: maybe we we sit in this very weird sort of

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Speaker 8: like like I said, this Goldilocks zone where we're like,

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Speaker 8: we understand what came before, what happened during, and now

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Speaker 8: what's after. And I think that very uniquely positions a

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Speaker 8: small slice of sort of institutional knowledge right where where

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Speaker 8: you can kind of like leverage that in a way

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Speaker 8: that not a lot of people have that sort of

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Speaker 8: insight from both sides of the fence.

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Speaker 5: And that goes back to you know, the founding of

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Speaker 5: Giant Bomb in two thousand and eight, because it was

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Speaker 5: four guys that broke off from game Spot, you know,

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Speaker 5: more traditional web based gaming media and formed this very

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Speaker 5: personality focused thing, you know, like kind of in the

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Speaker 5: early days of YouTube gaming personalities and things like that.

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Speaker 5: But it did come from that, yeah, institutional knowledge, people

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Speaker 5: that had worked you know, et threes dating back to

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Speaker 5: the nineties and things like that. It wasn't just you know,

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Speaker 5: some kids that started youtubing and getting big. It kind

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Speaker 5: of straddled the line from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: I met one of the saddest things to me was

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Speaker 2: watching PC zone collapse. It was the magazine I worked to,

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Speaker 2: the Games and Magazina worked to in England, and in

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Speaker 2: a different, different time, I think they would have come together,

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Speaker 2: we would have come together and done something. But two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight was when that happened. I was moving

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Speaker 2: to America as well, but that was Future publishing Bolton

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Speaker 2: fuck Future, yeah shit, yeah, well they're gonna do to me, And.

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Speaker 4: They repeatedly kind of do that stuff to people say yeah,

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Speaker 4: fuck for real real quick on that. Like I remember thinking,

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Speaker 4: like back when that was happening in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 4: when e GM and one Up was collapsing, It's like

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Speaker 4: it had the one Up Yours podcast kind of lasted

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Speaker 4: a few more years. They all could have easily just

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Speaker 4: transitioned that into a podcast with ads for one thing,

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Speaker 4: and then a direct to customer supported a way of

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Speaker 4: doing things on the other hand, and that really would

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Speaker 4: have taken off for them. Instead, they this guy's had

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Speaker 4: to go kind of filter into working in the corporate

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Speaker 4: side for making games.

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Speaker 2: The problem is with podcasts is, as you well know,

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Speaker 2: like monetizing them is very difficult. I mean, people complain

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Speaker 2: about the ads here being on the iHeart Radio. I

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Speaker 2: mean it works great because cool Zone Media and I

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Speaker 2: Heart leaves us alone fairly, but people complain about the ads.

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Speaker 2: It's like, have you tried starting a fucking podcast? Isn't cheap,

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Speaker 2: So it's it's just a frustrating but great time because

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Speaker 2: after Mask's doing really interesting stuff that I feel is

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Speaker 2: going to be I feel like Giant Bumb's gonna be

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Speaker 2: very like classic gamer stuff, like creative but still very

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Speaker 2: much about the games, and Aftermath is doing that plus

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Speaker 2: what would have been called derisively new games journalism. Mm hmm,

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Speaker 2: way back when do you remember that fellas? Yeah, new

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Speaker 2: games I remember that. I remember when people were talking

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that loudu narrative dissonance.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, fuck, like the start of Polygon press reset type stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, explain that for the listeners because it sucks,

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Speaker 2: but they should know.

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Speaker 1: You talk about that, the Polygon thing or.

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Speaker 5: Go ahead, dan Oh, it's just like games media going

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Speaker 5: back to like you know, EGM and Game in Former,

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Speaker 5: like the magazines of the nineties, to like the early

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Speaker 5: you know, web based ign games by stuff. It was

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Speaker 5: just you know, we we were repairing press releases, and

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Speaker 5: it's like news stories were basically like there's a new

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Speaker 5: box art for Assassin screen.

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Speaker 1: Game have, Yeah, yeah, exactly, You're getting.

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Speaker 5: More levels this time, like that type of stuff. So

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Speaker 5: it's like that's why I even back when I started

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Speaker 5: never considering myself a journalist, because I realized it's just like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: I'm just kind of reporting on silly things here and

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Speaker 5: giving a score to a game and things like that.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's something marvelous about that with games journalism.

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Speaker 2: It's the way there's because I don't they'll write and

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Speaker 2: geta especially over there is written like very long form,

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Speaker 2: thoughtful emotional pieces. I think that that's what's I want

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Speaker 2: to say missing because it's happening. But that's what makes

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Speaker 2: game journalism great. You can have stuff. It was just

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Speaker 2: like I played something. It's stunked to shit. It made

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Speaker 2: me angry, I want to kill someone, but I love

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Speaker 2: it because it's got this one tiny like there was.

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Speaker 2: I remember reviewing a game zone the sky Fall movie,

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Speaker 2: tying game activision remarkably tight Gears of Wark Loan and

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Speaker 2: remember being like, this sucks, but I love it. That's

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Speaker 2: great for gaming as well. But then the very deep

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Speaker 2: emotional stuff, and I think that it's what lends itself

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Speaker 2: to exactly what you're doing, which is this kind of

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Speaker 2: let's get together, let's make something about all Halpy and

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Speaker 2: our job and whatever, and the in between pot can

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Speaker 2: be Giant bomb.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think there's very much room for both because I remember,

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Speaker 5: like when Polygon was starting in like you know, probably

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Speaker 5: like the twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen whenever that was, and

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Speaker 5: they were very much, you know, banging the drum of

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Speaker 5: like we are doing serious games journalism and telling human

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Speaker 5: stories and it's gonna be this emotional, deep stuff. And

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Speaker 5: I remember looking at that and be like, I don't

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Speaker 5: know how the fuck to do that. If I can

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Speaker 5: tell you if never did, is any good? You know?

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Speaker 5: Like so, but I think there's a room for both

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Speaker 5: because like someone like me broke in because I wanted

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Speaker 5: to work with a bunch of dorks and talk about

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Speaker 5: video games and now make videos about video games. But

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Speaker 5: then there are there are important stories to tell. And

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Speaker 5: I think, you know, to give Grub some credit here,

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Speaker 5: I think Grub might be the best I've ever seen

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Speaker 5: at balancing both, Like he does the daily news show

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Speaker 5: on Giant bomb dot com and we'll cover the serious

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Speaker 5: stuff in layoffs and just kind of issues facing the industry.

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Speaker 5: But then he'll also you know, dress up like Bubbsy

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Speaker 5: and play Bubzy three D for Blake Club, you know.

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Speaker 5: So I do think Grubb is uniquely qualified to do

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Speaker 5: both ends of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I enjoy in both.

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Speaker 4: I definitely remember growing up in like reading EGM or

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Speaker 4: Game Players and being like, man, the people who are

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Speaker 4: in this magazine, they have a lot of personality and

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Speaker 4: they clearly fill every page with that, and I like

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Speaker 4: know these people by name. Now I kind of know

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Speaker 4: what they're into, and I built a real connection with them,

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Speaker 4: and then you know that then that would actually lead

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Speaker 4: me into some of their real reporting on stuff that

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Speaker 4: mattered to them, especially in EGM and then like Next

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Speaker 4: Gen Magazine later, And I just remember like really enjoying

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Speaker 4: both sides of that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of games are.

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Speaker 4: Silly and stupid and wouldn't be fun if we took

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Speaker 4: that seriously, and I really enjoyed that aspect.

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Speaker 1: Of my job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And CVG used to have this kind of yellow

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Speaker 2: it was. I don't know if you ever physically read

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Speaker 2: an issue of Computer Video Against magazine it's original, but

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Speaker 2: they had this middle section that was in like almost

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Speaker 2: like yellow Pages style and it was just rambling shit.

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Speaker 2: It was beautiful. It's like games. Genuinely, I was blues

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Speaker 2: off like two years ago, and like games were the

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Speaker 2: one thing that I could bond with people over because

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Speaker 2: it didn't require you to be anyone, Like I played

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Speaker 2: a shit ton of EverQuest I was. I think it

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Speaker 2: was one of the first momo like real Remmo reports

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Speaker 2: in England, Ollie Welsh as well Legend Sure yeah, Shah Sally.

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Speaker 2: But it's like and one of the leftover Polygon people.

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Speaker 2: It's just what pisses me off about all of this

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Speaker 2: as well, is it doesn't seem that hard to run

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Speaker 2: a games journalism out let. Well, you just don't hire

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Speaker 2: so many people and make them do eleven stories a day.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the real sad thing with Polygon is they

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Speaker 4: didn't make any of those mistakes when people saw the

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Speaker 4: layoffs snow like, oh that's a lot of people. It's

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Speaker 4: like they were successful and profitable and could have kept growing,

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Speaker 4: but they had a very sort of like moderate take

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Speaker 4: on Okay, yeah we could, but let's just keep all

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Speaker 4: this sustainable and a lot of that goes down to

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Speaker 4: the leadership of Chris Plant, who I just admire so much.

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Speaker 4: Is he's got such a good head on his shoulders,

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Speaker 4: and it just filtered all the way down through Polygon.

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Speaker 4: So it's like they were doing it right, and even

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Speaker 4: voxers are letting them do it right. It's just like,

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Speaker 4: even when that happens, you there's that buds and buzz

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Speaker 4: saw that's going to show up and be like, we're

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Speaker 4: gonna rip this thing apart and find a way to

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Speaker 4: make more money.

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Speaker 1: Fronament, So here's some money.

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Speaker 9: It's fucking books. I didn't know they were profitable. Yeah,

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Speaker 9: it's so infuriated. It was a successful business, I think.

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Speaker 9: Is not how I would phrase it.

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Speaker 2: It's so fucking stupid because I feel like these outlets

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Speaker 2: could on some level, maybe not a ton print money,

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Speaker 2: but they there are tons of gamers who love reading stuff.

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Speaker 2: Sure like it sounds like Publican had a sustainable operation.

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Speaker 2: IGN is insane. I don't know, I do. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how many people work. Ign Igen breaks on my phone.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. If you've tried to look at nign guide.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes if you scroll too fast, it just goes not

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Speaker 2: sorry mate.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I know that so many sites now

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Speaker 5: could be.

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Speaker 2: Your own.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it just goes to the top or pops

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Speaker 5: up the thing and the accident and clicked the wrong thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I hate that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Internet sucks.

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Speaker 5: Now really this is as much.

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Speaker 3: As is show about that.

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Speaker 7: But a lot of those a lot of those sites

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Speaker 7: are are not there's there's it's tough to really say

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Speaker 7: that they all have agency in a way that you want, right,

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Speaker 7: And I think everything becomes this Frankensteinian creation of like

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Speaker 7: uh uh, you know, sort of meshing it with other

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Speaker 7: properties that sit alongside as sister companies, and you're just

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Speaker 7: never going to have that organic uh feeling.

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Speaker 6: I do think you're right.

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Speaker 7: I think the Polygon example is good because it was

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Speaker 7: sort of like the semblance of like, oh this does

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Speaker 7: feel sort of vacuum sealed off in a way that

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Speaker 7: that works, and everyone there, you know, really doing a

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Speaker 7: tremendous job. But for the most part, whenever you see

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Speaker 7: a lot of these massive, behemoth legacy media sites, they

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Speaker 7: are just the is you know, a vultron creation that

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Speaker 7: doesn't really allow for that amount of agency that you know,

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Speaker 7: I think the spirit of all those sites wants to.

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Speaker 2: Be Yeah, and I think the like I've said earlier,

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Speaker 2: that kind of the obvious victim of any kind of

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Speaker 2: acquisition partner, because it's just you can turn them into

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Speaker 2: a slop shop and the immediately killed them, immediately killed them.

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Speaker 7: Right, And that's what the Internet's allowed for, right, And

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Speaker 7: I know that's like, that's what I read what you say,

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Speaker 7: like you you always have it spot on at is

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Speaker 7: like that is like we are just sort of like

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Speaker 7: willfully watching the death of everything and calling it out

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Speaker 7: and just being like, yeah, that's the that's the next

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Speaker 7: ship that came into the harbor filled with ghosts, and

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Speaker 7: we're just gonna watch it continue on its way down

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Speaker 7: to its next port of call.

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Speaker 6: And that's it. It's just this parade of dead websites

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Speaker 6: and dead Internet.

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Speaker 4: And you're familiar, familiar with the Tony Oaks pro skater games, right,

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Speaker 4: So I was watching I was trying to read story

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Speaker 4: on Kataka the other day.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was about, but it did.

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Speaker 4: It took me to a video instead, and there was

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Speaker 4: a man talking over the video and he kept calling

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Speaker 4: it thhps, thhps, and I'm like, I don't think i've

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Speaker 4: ever heard anyone say that before, and then it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I I'm listening to an AI voice. Of course I am,

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Speaker 4: of course interesting, yes, because he did it every time

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Speaker 4: in the same thhps thhps.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no one says that.

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Speaker 4: No one said that, So I'm just like, that's of course,

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Speaker 4: that's they all think they're going to be able to

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Speaker 4: do that. That's the story we're gonna have to keep

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Speaker 4: telling over and over about what's happening with all these

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Speaker 4: websites and these equity firms coming in here.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, of course I get turned off.

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Speaker 4: I think most of the audience probably does get turned

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Speaker 4: off when they experienced that, right, because the one thing

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Speaker 4: about games and Stephen Spahn, who is an accessibility expert

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Speaker 4: in the space, he used to tell me like, why

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Speaker 4: why do I want to play video games?

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Speaker 1: He's like, it's a currency.

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Speaker 4: It's a social currency where I play something that I

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Speaker 4: get to talk to someone else about it and we

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Speaker 4: get to share something.

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Speaker 1: We have a connection.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you said the one thing you could bond

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Speaker 4: over with people these video games. I think we all

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Speaker 4: get that at the very fundamental level. And so these

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Speaker 4: corporations trying to find a way to take that out

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Speaker 4: of there so they could save some money is obviously

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Speaker 4: just going to blow up in their faces.

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Speaker 1: They just don't know why. Am Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I actually think it could go the other way though,

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Speaker 2: which is as we get more independent gaming outlets. I

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Speaker 2: think that there could be real success there because I

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Speaker 2: think that that's what people want to like. There is

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Speaker 2: definitely a degree of hunger for when is a game

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Speaker 2: coming out, in the same way that people google when

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Speaker 2: the super Bowls come in. Of course, when the super

402
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Speaker 2: Bowls coming out. When the super Bowl's happening, there we go.

403
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Speaker 2: I do watch sports that did the super Bowl episode,

404
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Speaker 2: but it I think the no one actually reads these

405
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Speaker 2: outlets just to learn that they want a gamer who

406
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Speaker 2: has played a shit ton of games, who has a

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Speaker 2: good voice to say I like this or I'm worried

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Speaker 2: about this. And I think the worst of games journalism

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Speaker 2: has been when that's been dragged out of it. And

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Speaker 2: even when like we were doing these very early days

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Speaker 2: of the website for CVG, when we'd have to write

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Speaker 2: shit and just be like, this game's coming out, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be like this, And I say, we weren't

414
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Speaker 2: allowed to have character, but it definitely wasn't encouraged, which

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Speaker 2: is strange because the CBG mag was always so rude.

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Speaker 6: It was it was it was utility.

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Speaker 7: You were doing utility work, right as opposed to personality work.

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Speaker 5: That's kind of how it works with like the old

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Speaker 5: preview system with magazines is because like you weren't supposed

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Speaker 5: to since the game wasn't out yet, you know. But

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Speaker 5: I remember I went to like an Xbox One pre

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Speaker 5: launch event thing and I played Rise Son of Rome.

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Speaker 5: Oh remember, was just thinking it was like I think

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Speaker 5: the headline I used was like, oh, it's as fun

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Speaker 5: as dialing a phone number because it's just like waiting

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Speaker 5: for something to turn red. Then he pressed the red button.

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Speaker 2: Then it just sucks, calling it Microsoft snack.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I wrote that, and it was like it

430
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Speaker 5: had a negative tone, and the game was about to

431
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Speaker 5: come out in like three weeks, and it's like and

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Speaker 5: I kind of said, like, this seems like it might

433
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Speaker 5: suck in the preview, and I remember like both like

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Speaker 5: comments and stuff and people at work being like, well,

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Speaker 5: WHOA can't have this much like opinion in a preview.

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Speaker 1: It's like I think I can.

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Speaker 5: This is gonna kind of suck, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no no rules there.

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Speaker 4: I remember when Mark McDonald over at EGM said he

440
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 4: played two Human and said it's gonna be terrible, and

441
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 4: Dennis Diak like insisted on coming on their podcast and

442
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 4: talking to him about it, and like scolded him and said,

443
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,639
Speaker 4: you're gonna regret everything you said when you played the

444
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 4: final version.

445
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: Were rude of the day that you insulted to humans.

446
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 1: I don't think.

447
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 4: I don't think he ruled anything Jesus Christ.

448
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: But this is even this conversation is what is fun

449
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: about games journalism because even a shit game, you have

450
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: the kind of horse trading like shit.

451
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 3: Do you remember that terrible preview?

452
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,959
Speaker 2: I I do genuinely miss this about games journalism, like

453
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 2: it's the one. It's probably I miss it more than

454
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: the writing about the games, because backupece he's done. We

455
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,640
Speaker 2: had like logs, Steve Hogerty Will Porter, we had all

456
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 2: sorts of like fun other people like Ryan, all the

457
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: people from the mag who just yell at you. And

458
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: I think that and actually I'm curious your thoughts about this.

459
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: I think what this industry also needs to do is

460
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 2: rebuild the solidarity because it was quite There was quite

461
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 2: a lot of it in two thousand and eight. It

462
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: feels like it's kind of drifted, and I feel like

463
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 2: that it's something in tech media I want to do too.

464
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 2: I want people to come back together and realize it

465
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: really is us versus them.

466
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 7: Then yes, well, I'm curious to hear where you think

467
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,479
Speaker 7: like the friction primarily lies.

468
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: I think what it is is that so many people

469
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 2: have been hired, fired, hired fired, so many people have

470
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 2: left games journalism, gone into pr and then the people

471
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: that own these companies have stopped even being the classic

472
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: like Fortune as Fortune Future or Dennis Publishing. It's the people.

473
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: So you've always had ign as this kind of thing

474
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 2: over here, this juggernaut, and then remote work to an

475
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 2: extent as well, has done it too. It's just there's

476
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 2: less events when people are meeting. I don't even know

477
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: how we fix this, but it's something that I'm very

478
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: big in tech media at least, trying to bring people

479
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 2: together and be like, hey, look, it is really us

480
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 2: versus the largest corporations in the world.

481
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: Sure.

482
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 4: I mean, that's absolutely been my primary thought that pops

483
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 4: in my head throughout this entire experience, is we really

484
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 4: are in this together, and that I mean, when I

485
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 4: say us that we're in this together, I am thinking

486
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 4: about the other people who are in this creator driven space.

487
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 4: So kind of Funny's been super supportive and helping us

488
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 4: out and giving us pointers and stuff like that. The

489
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 4: guys over at next Lander have been pointing out Dan

490
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 4: was on Jeff Gersman's show yesterday. It's like we did

491
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 4: realize pretty quickly when Greg Miller did take that team

492
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 4: kind of Funny to go independent that there isn't that

493
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 4: real competition, like there the more people that care about

494
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 4: the kinds of the ways that we talk about video games,

495
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 4: the better for everybody. And people can bounce around between

496
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 4: these various sites that have a slightly slightly different take

497
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 4: on it, so we keep growing that space. It's good

498
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 4: for everyone. So how do we turn that into something?

499
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 4: And it's like, definitely, I'm coming into it with I'm

500
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 4: gonna like reference a book that I haven't read yet,

501
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 4: but I saw the interview.

502
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: On Gailey Do the Daily Show. I'm gonna do it.

503
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 4: I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna misrepresent it. But it

504
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 4: was like moral ambition was the name of the book,

505
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 4: and it was this idea of you should in the

506
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,959
Speaker 4: system that we have have ambition to try to do

507
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 4: big things, cool things, try to go make money. That's fine,

508
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 4: But when confronted with a fork in the road about hey,

509
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 4: I could do this or I could do that in

510
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 4: that moment, go with the one that feels the most

511
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 4: morally correct with you. And like, now we're in this

512
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 4: moment where it's like we could hunker down and try

513
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 4: to make as much money for ourselves as possible, but

514
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 4: clearly the right choice is let's work with everyone, get

515
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 4: everyone sort of moving in the same direction, get people

516
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 4: feeling good about this space again, and then maybe we

517
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 4: can kind of heal some of that.

518
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: Riff that you're talking about a little bit. I don't know.

519
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 4: We're not going to be able to get back to

520
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 4: people who are reactionaries that have turned to right wingers

521
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: on YouTube.

522
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: And they were never part of it exactly. So we

523
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: just got to focus on the words that are there.

524
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And there's a lot of people who

525
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 4: are right there ready to listen again.

526
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: We just got to like let them know it's cool

527
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: in here again. Yeah.

528
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 2: I think we need to get back to the lots

529
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: of smaller teams. I think because absolutely, I'm actually really

530
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: glad you corrected me. I thought Polygon was that they

531
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: grew too big. That was just the assumption I made,

532
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 2: which was incorrect, clearly not. Yeah, not what I've heard

533
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: from anyone that I've talked to. Yeah, it sucks because

534
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: I was originally they talked to me at the beginning

535
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: of Polygon. I was in PR at the time, and

536
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, do you want to come over here?

537
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I must stay at a job.

538
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: I'm unhappy at it.

539
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 4: Like probably in the beginning for sure, but they definitely

540
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 4: kind of figured out out over time.

541
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, No, they no, they genuinely they wanted to

542
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 2: need to do PR. I think it's just McElroy and

543
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: it's I think that the future is going to be

544
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 2: lots of smaller ones. I think the games as well.

545
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 2: There is less competition because it's not like scoop heavy.

546
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 2: I guess you could play a game first, but at

547
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 2: that point you're just you played the game. Like.

548
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 6: I still think there's a semblance of that, and there is, but.

549
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: It's not like compared to getting a massive funding announcement

550
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: in tech or like a breakdown technology.

551
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 6: You're sure sure, like a partnered embargo thing I.

552
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 7: Mean, yeah, still competition certainly, but you're right, like there's

553
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 7: like everyone is small. That's what the landscape is. And

554
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 7: it's the reckoning of corporate media. Having this realization of like,

555
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 7: our competition is thirty thousand small independent creators and how

556
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 7: do we how do we like come to terms with

557
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 7: that in a way that will satisfy what we need

558
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 7: this thing to do?

559
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: Answers.

560
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, and the answer is no, one knows how to

561
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 7: do it because probably there is no answer. So that realization,

562
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 7: that epiphany, which I think everyone has to have, like

563
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 7: for themselves at one point in their life, you know,

564
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 7: kind of lends you to why you know, things like

565
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 7: this wind up happening.

566
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 2: And I think that there's also the problem of all

567
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: of these big entities buying things and draining all the

568
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: personality out is it's replaced all the personality with people

569
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: on YouTube that post pictures of themselves frowning and saying

570
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 2: the dragon age just got woke in it or whatever.

571
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 5: Oh that we got to take those pictures of us

572
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 5: frowning guys.

573
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, based organization.

574
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 6: H I got to work on my pointing.

575
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: Like the the and this is this is a reference

576
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: as well, just to any listeners is like Uber Driver

577
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: sucked me off, and it was like the Rob Whisman picture.

578
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: Anyone who doesn't know what that is. I swear it's

579
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: not just me talking about that.

580
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 5: But if my favorite is the Undertaker got a podcast

581
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 5: not too long ago and seeing the Undertaker do YouTube

582
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 5: faces is.

583
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so special.

584
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 6: It comes for everyone.

585
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: But we need the opinion, like we do actually need

586
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: the opinion back. It's just the gaming online. I feel

587
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: like a loss dropper out of nonm sometimes because it's

588
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: like gaming online is like, oh you don't like fucking

589
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: Sonica Mario, I will kill you, Yeah, yep, you insult

590
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: Bubbsey the Bob can't?

591
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: I will?

592
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I can, and I have.

593
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 7: You know, fanboyism is a currency for sure. And I

594
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 7: think like that argument of position, as much as it sucks, right,

595
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 7: is a thing that probably too many people are finding

596
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 7: the worst things about themselves and placing it into the

597
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 7: energy of that discourse online. And you know, I think

598
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 7: that's what probably you know, separates for my personal taste

599
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 7: what I want to watch and what is out there.

600
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 7: And I think, uh, you know the fact that you

601
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 7: you know, I think like personality is another former currency.

602
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 7: That is a thing that is all but lost in

603
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 7: a lot of larger, you know, media outlets. That's that

604
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 7: is a thing you can't replace. That is the thing

605
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 7: that AI is not going to replace. That is a

606
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 7: thing that you know has to be genuine.

607
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were in that question, like where's the Lester

608
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 4: bangs and video games journalism? That was part of that

609
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: new gamesjournalism thing, and it's like it did happen.

610
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: It was probably Donkey Like it's probably.

611
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: Big YouTuber like just kind of does funny talking over

612
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 4: gameplay and he's got a pretty good eye and.

613
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: He probably thought he was Yeah, but yeah, and I mean.

614
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 4: Yazi is definitely part of that lineage for sure.

615
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 5: Video game nerd, video game YouTube guy.

616
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: I saw yeah, yep, yeah, I And I like Yatse's

617
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: original stuff. I really don't want to look what's happened

618
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: since it's one of those things where I hope nothing

619
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: bad happened.

620
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, a Yachtzi is still kind of doing

621
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: his thing. I think he's over as second win now,

622
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 4: which is a Patreon back thing.

623
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: It's h yeah, it's and I think that every time

624
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: the ground is seated away from personality, it is kind

625
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: of fitting into the right wing type people though, because

626
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: the right way it isn't like you get a bunch

627
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: of clicks just for being nice or loving stuff, right,

628
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: I mean.

629
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very easy.

630
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 7: I think it's very easy for people who are able

631
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 7: to make that pivot into hate currency and hate juicing

632
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 7: where they're just like, oh my, like I can easily

633
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 7: hate on things and use that as ammunition and weaponize this,

634
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 7: and that becomes my primary mode of revenue generation. I

635
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 7: can pick a target, juice it for all it's worth,

636
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 7: like a cancer, and then move on to my next victim.

637
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 7: And as long as I'm able to like just you know,

638
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 7: jump onto the next melting iceberg, I'm gonna be okay.

639
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 7: So whether whoever it is is the target online, you know,

640
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 7: that's how that strategy goes, and geologically it works for

641
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 7: people they're super naked about it this like this.

642
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 4: In this past week, there was one of these creators

643
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: who was and someone like screenshot I didn't posted the

644
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 4: Blue Sky or whatever, him complaining that his video she

645
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 4: does about one individual woman video games journalist no longer

646
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 4: get very many hits for months and months and months,

647
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 4: He's like, this was my whole business now I'm not

648
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 4: making any money.

649
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: It's my whole business.

650
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: He's like explicitly saying, woe is me, I'm not making

651
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 4: money from harassing this person anymore.

652
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: It was one of the most insane things I've ever.

653
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 5: Seen to turn it into a conspiracy, and you say, oh,

654
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 5: I've been shadow band over an algorithm against me because

655
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 5: of course, of course, Yeah, I know what. All these

656
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 5: creators seem very very happy too.

657
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: That's the one thing about it. Yeah, they all seem very.

658
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 5: Okay, take a good line of work, very normal and

659
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 5: happy with the lie.

660
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't seem to health get for that. They

661
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: they only genuinely don't seem to like playing video games

662
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: on the computure.

663
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: So nope. I mean they could just do it, and

664
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: they always choose not to.

665
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 5: No, we get to look at everything through the lens

666
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 5: of like, okay, what's the angle on getting people pissed

667
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 5: off about this? And that sounds exhausting and miserable.

668
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: That stuff is a little bit of low tide right now.

669
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 4: I mean that stuff did pop off again in the

670
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 4: last few years, but it didn't last as long. Everyone

671
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 4: kind of saw through it, and now you are seeing

672
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 4: people who were probably pretty young and impressionable in like

673
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, when the original gamer Gate stuff was happening,

674
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 4: talking about man, I wish I just didn't click on

675
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 4: that one video is telling me all the things that

676
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 4: all the ways that feminism was ruined video games, Like

677
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 4: I could see now that that was a bad choice

678
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 4: in the path of my life.

679
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: I wish I wouldn't have done that. I wasted years.

680
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 4: And it's like these kids are growing up and seeing

681
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 4: stuff in like the next generation will be a little

682
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: bit more cynical about that going forward, I think, But

683
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 4: it's always going to be there and they're always going

684
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: to be trying to it. Reality is, if they do

685
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 4: it and they get rewarded, the algorithm is built to

686
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 4: reward them. It's going to keep happening no matter what,

687
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 4: as long as.

688
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: That's the case.

689
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: See what always pissed me off about that, Other than

690
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: all the hate and the getting people angry in the

691
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: attacks on journalism. On top of all of that, they

692
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: don't seem angry at the fucking games companies were actually

693
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: making the realness. Put aside the made up sexism or

694
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: made up misandry. It's all bullshit, not even going to

695
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 2: humor it. I don't know. Look at the fact that

696
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: NFL has given one company, Electronic Arts, this one game, Madden,

697
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: and it has been bad for fifteen years. It has

698
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: been the same game for the last three right.

699
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 5: When there was good competition, and they're like, oh, crap,

700
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 5: we better lock this down.

701
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: And they did. Yeah, yep, they did, they did. And

702
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: that feels like something. I'm not saying they should be

703
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: a hate campaign against anything, but maybe if you're going

704
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: to do one, choose an actual giant company doing horrible ship.

705
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, they because they don't care that. That's not what

706
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 7: they're interested in, right, Like, that is not the story

707
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 7: for them. The story has to be deeply personal and accessible.

708
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 7: I don't I think you know. An expose about that

709
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 7: is is uh is like sort.

710
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 6: Of boring in a way to you know where it leads.

711
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 4: It leads you to the thing. As always it's like, oh,

712
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: the whole capitalist system. Rightly, these are all symptoms and

713
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 4: that is not going to help them with them trying

714
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: to sell this idea that you're isolated because the feminists

715
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: want you isolated.

716
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, Yeah, because you're isolated because the system,

717
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: the system you're within, has kept you separate from people.

718
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: They're all walkable.

719
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: Cities, right, there's content to entaglea. It's woman.

720
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's it. It all comes to that.

721
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, in our space, it's women in uh, you know,

722
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: common politics, it's immigrants, it's it's yeah, always the scapegoat.

723
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's the son of a woman and an immigrant.

724
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: I think.

725
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: No, I guess the father of daughters was.

726
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: The line from Spider Verse as well as like as

727
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: the son of a mother and the father of a daughter.

728
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: But it's I do have hope seeing Giant Bomb do

729
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: what you do. When the bad stuff happened, I was

730
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: definitely like games journalism's fucked, Like this is just like

731
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: polygon everything, just like look at it. Just was very

732
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 2: dark about it. But like, actually, I feel like there

733
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 2: is an independent wave happening and there are so many

734
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: like amazing creators like Lucy James of course former Giant Bomb.

735
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: She's amazing. I only found her work fairly recently. It's

736
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: like you've got all these amazing creators out there. Gaming

737
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: is becoming more mainstream, and I think that there is

738
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: genuine hope here. There's genuine mainstream interest. It's just a

739
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: question of cracking it.

740
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think everyone likes that. It's because

741
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 7: it's a good story. It's a it's a good story

742
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 7: with you know, I don't want to call in a

743
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 7: happy ending, right, but a very like, you know, a

744
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 7: positive way, a positive outcome of a thing that seemed

745
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 7: to not have any realistically happy you know, turnout.

746
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: And then and it came from like the fact that

747
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 4: the audience was so excited. It's like, oh, you know,

748
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 4: they wanted to do that thing to keep going. We're

749
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 4: able to keep it going. It's so yeah, you can

750
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 4: match that up and make that makes sense, and it

751
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 4: feels like that should be a business.

752
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: And we all agreed, yeah.

753
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the tone of our conversations internally, you know,

754
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 5: you go to a month ago versus how we're talking now,

755
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 5: which is like, oh my god, it is a world different.

756
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 5: We've got optimism and you know, we're always passionate and everything,

757
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 5: but now it just really feels like we're free to

758
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 5: to directly make this stuff the audience wants.

759
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: Yep.

760
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I think you're right.

761
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 7: I think that I think you're right about an independent

762
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 7: sort of wave happening because I think, you know, I

763
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 7: don't I'm not a big like fate or or you

764
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 7: know destiny person But what I am is that Yeah,

765
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 7: well obviously, but but I think like on a long

766
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 7: enough timeline, you have you know, doors that open that

767
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 7: allow the sort of like spread up a thing that

768
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 7: people kind of want to put their energy into and

769
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 7: have that you know, proliferate in a positive way. And

770
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 7: I think, you know, on a lot, like I said,

771
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 7: on a long enough timeline, like odds are, I do

772
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 7: think that's going to break through the surface and come

773
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 7: out in a way that makes everyone happy. And I

774
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 7: think that is a bit of what happened with our story.

775
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: Uh.

776
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 7: And I can be you know, super jazzed about that,

777
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 7: especially in the manner did I would like it of

778
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 7: not to have had to happen so quickly.

779
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 6: I wish maybe I had.

780
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 7: Another week or two where Grub and I could have

781
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 7: handed this plane. But yeah, it it is definitely a

782
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 7: bright future in that regard for sure.

783
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's I also think that I don't know,

784
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: personality is profitable. I think that there's real It requires patience,

785
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: which private equity does not like. But like cool zide media,

786
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 2: we've done pretty well giving people a runway to not

787
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: fuck up but love them. What you're doing. I feel

788
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: like you guys haven't. I's a question though, so it's

789
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: just you. How many people are you right now? So

790
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: it's usually and a few other five people? Are you

791
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: going to be bringing on others? Are you going to

792
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: be bringing back any of the original GP people who

793
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: haven't been there? Like, what's the plan to expand if

794
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: there is one? Because isn't a problem if you haven't.

795
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the reality is like Backler's right, this

796
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 4: stuff came together so fast that we don't really have

797
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 4: insight into what like our own personal financial futures look like.

798
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: With this thing.

799
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: We have an idea, we feel pretty okay about it,

800
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 4: but it's like, you know, we're going to keep pushing

801
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 4: to try to grow because as fast as we can grow,

802
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 4: or as many as many people as we can get

803
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: to support it, we can then begin to look at

804
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 4: doing other things of bringing other people on. But it's

805
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 4: it is scary, and so we want to try to

806
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 4: figure out as much as we can on our own

807
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: so we could be solid and then all of the

808
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 4: growth can just make sense naturally after that. It wouldn't

809
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 4: be like, I mean, guys, I couldn't imagine ever having

810
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 4: more than ten people like.

811
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 5: Right, it's like like you said, like, we haven't even

812
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 5: seen the first dollar yet. You know, we we have

813
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 5: no idea what to expect in terms of this, and

814
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 5: like even though we were a small outlet under the

815
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 5: corporate umbrella, you know, there was a freelancer fund and

816
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 5: budget and things like that, so we were able to

817
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 5: bring people on and pay them regularly and things like that,

818
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 5: and just the business realities of it. Uh, you know,

819
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 5: the Jeff's here definitely looked into it a lot, and

820
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 5: we we don't know yet.

821
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, I'm you know, I'm very I

822
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 7: feel like there was a there was a time where

823
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 7: people were sort of like, oh, another one of these,

824
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 7: like how how can the market handle another you know,

825
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 7: Patreon or or independent thing that needs you know, direct

826
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 7: support to sustain itself. And you know, I kind of

827
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 7: I kind of throw that argument away. I think it

828
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 7: is truly a rising tide situation because, you you know,

829
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 7: the the the independence allows for collaboration in a in

830
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 7: a really positive and organic way. And I think I

831
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 7: think a lot of people who tell them themselves that story,

832
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 7: whether they're you know, involved in the business or they

833
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 7: are on the audience side of that are really not

834
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 7: seeing the force for the trees and understanding like no,

835
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 7: you like, look at how YouTube creators and twitch streamers

836
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 7: and all these people help each other grow. It is

837
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 7: all about genuine collaboration and audience sharing and like exposing

838
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 7: yourself to the people who even if it's someone who

839
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 7: just very slimly overlaps in that Venn diagram, you know,

840
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 7: that is the best endorsement you can get. And I

841
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 7: think there's you know, to your question at of like

842
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 7: bringing on new people, Like, I don't think there's really

843
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 7: ever a situation where we wouldn't want to collaborate with anyone.

844
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 7: Obviously having someone on in the full time capacity is

845
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 7: a limitation of just what you know, the business is

846
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 7: able to bring in. But you know, I don't think

847
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 7: that means that in no way we wouldn't be open

848
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 7: to really exploring all kinds of stuff with people. I mean,

849
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 7: that's the point, right like. That is what we talk

850
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 7: about when we say we're in this together. As you said,

851
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 7: right like, that is the spirit of that, and if

852
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 7: we don't do that, well then we're not holding up

853
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 7: our part of the bargain.

854
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: Are you going to do any event stuff live stuff.

855
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: I realize, all if this is very new, but what

856
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 2: are you thinking? And it always do not neat to

857
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: be specific, we announced at Packs East.

858
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 5: The timing worked out crazy, like you know, signatures were

859
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 5: a signed like the day before pack season. We're able

860
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 5: to do this big announcement and in the future. We've

861
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 5: always loved doing packs, Giant Bombs, always had a big

862
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 5: presence of packs and would love to keep doing that,

863
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 5: you know, whether it makes sense to like, you know,

864
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 5: unless we're getting like flown out for something like are

865
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 5: we going to pay to send the whole crew out

866
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 5: to games Com or something like that, Like probably no,

867
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 5: probably not, especially not this early on, but like you know,

868
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 5: a lot of times places will offer to you know,

869
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 5: fly you out for preview events or these bigger conferences,

870
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 5: and yeah, we would when it makes sense, we will

871
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 5: definitely do that stuff.

872
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 6: Well, you're going to bring us out for CES right

873
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 6: in January.

874
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: I don't know how the hell I'm going to get

875
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: you there or whay you're going to sleep, but if

876
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: you have to be in town, I'd love to have

877
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: you on because that CES has become like the fucking

878
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: solidarity Fest. If anyone like we're gonna we're extending see

879
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: yes to two hours per episodes to two a day,

880
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: Like we're gonna have tons of people on, and I

881
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: just think that that's what the indis can do for

882
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 2: each other. I'm not even saying like put me on.

883
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: I'm just saying the acknowledging and working together on this

884
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: ship is actually how better stuff will be done. Back

885
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,919
Speaker 2: in the course days with Dennis and Future all those

886
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: fuck nuts used to hang out. And I say that

887
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: with deep adoration of said fuck nuts, me being one

888
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 2: of them. But it's just I think that any independent

889
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: listening to this needs to know that this is like

890
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: the Allies are the people doing this independently too, Not

891
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: to say people at big outlets aren't, but it's like

892
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: we only have each other.

893
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: Mm hm yes, I mean without a doubt.

894
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll do the the you know, we're gonna try

895
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 4: to do GB at Night at Summer game Fest and

896
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 4: things like that. That's a lot of work right now

897
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 4: because it's less than a month away and this all

898
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 4: kind of happened real hot.

899
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: We're doing our best, but you.

900
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 4: Know, for that, you know, GB at Night is this

901
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 4: thing where we just have our friends come sit on

902
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 4: a couch and I interview them and we do like

903
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 4: six segments a night, and the whole idea is just

904
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 4: about like getting cool people from the industry into the

905
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 4: same room together so we could just talk this stuff

906
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 4: out and it's it's very cathartic. It's oh yeah, we

907
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 4: you do come out of that feeling more connected and

908
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: like they're oh, there there is one of the ladders up,

909
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 4: or there's one of the ladders someone else is sending

910
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 4: down so other people can maybe just have a chance

911
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 4: to grab a foothold on something. And yeah, that's been

912
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 4: important to me for a long time, so I'd love

913
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 4: to keep doing something like that. And you're right that,

914
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 4: to me, that's the only path forward for getting new

915
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 4: people into these spaces.

916
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: Well, guys, thank you so much for coming on the show.

917
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: Where can people find you other than johnbomb dot com.

918
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 4: Let's let's hit giinbomb dot com slash join if you

919
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 4: want to become a member and support what we're doing.

920
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: Jo yeah, Jeded, that's We'll give you all the information there.

921
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 4: But other than that, I'm grub dot WTF on Blue

922
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 4: Sky and that's where I'm mostly posting these days.

923
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 5: Yep, I'm a Dan Reicherd dot com on Blue Sky,

924
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 5: Dan Record on Instagram.

925
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 7: Yes, I am Jeff Bachelar pretty much everywhere, and yeah,

926
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 7: you know, like that's another good thing, right, Like we're

927
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 7: you know, we can kind of serve people wherever they are,

928
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 7: right so, like it doesn't matter where you're looking for us.

929
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 7: We don't have this kind of like shackle around us

930
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 7: where we can only do a thing here or there.

931
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 7: And you know, it's a lot more accessible now, which

932
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 7: is awesome.

933
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me, guys, and thank

934
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 2: you everyone for listening. You can find me at Google

935
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: dot com. That's where I live, and you will now

936
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: hear a message that I will never re record. It's

937
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: going to be the same one from when I was

938
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: a weird band that was unconfident in my podcasting ability.

939
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

940
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

941
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 2: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

942
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T

943
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: T O S O W s ki dot com. You

944
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: can email me at easy at betrofline dot com or

945
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 2: visit Better Offline dot com to find more podcast links.

946
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: And of course my newsletter.

947
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 2: I also really recommend you go to chat dot where's

948
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 2: youoead dot at to visit the discord, and go to

949
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 2: our slash Better Offline to check out our reddit.

950
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening.

951
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.

952
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

953
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

954
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.