Speaker 1: Good afternoon, everybody. I don't know why I say good
Speaker 1: afternoon when us start days. I'm Chelsea, Hi, what's happening?
Speaker 1: What's happening, Catherine? So many shit is happening on my
Speaker 1: end of things. I just can't even keep up.
Speaker 2: Okay, I need a little bit of advice. I am
Speaker 2: finding that I'm having such a hard time making a
Speaker 2: decision on stuff for my house, and I think it's
Speaker 2: because I just feel like I have to search the
Speaker 2: depth and breadth of the Internet for every possible choice
Speaker 2: of something, whether it's like new dog crates for the dogs,
Speaker 2: or a new sofa or whatever it is that I
Speaker 2: need next. I'm just having such a hard time with
Speaker 2: the limitless possibilities before I can make a decision. What
Speaker 2: do I do?
Speaker 1: Listen, when you make a decision, when you are decisive,
Speaker 1: I'm very decisive. I don't like really. I go to
Speaker 1: my design meetings for my new house and I am
Speaker 1: in and out of there in forty minutes. I pick, Tyle,
Speaker 1: I pick because Listen, whatever you buy is gonna make
Speaker 1: your You're gonna forget about all the other options.
Speaker 2: That's true, and it's to be fine. It's gonna be
Speaker 2: the right.
Speaker 1: One, and unless you make a huge mistake, which you
Speaker 1: can't with a doggy crate. It's not like you're picking
Speaker 1: out marble. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna make a big mistake. So when you're ever
Speaker 1: you're indecisive. I always feel like, just make a decision
Speaker 1: and then that decision becomes the right decision and commit
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I all of the decisions of the Internet are really
Speaker 2: troubling to me.
Speaker 1: When you're letting the internet run you, I.
Speaker 2: Am and I need to run the internet, so.
Speaker 1: I don't go online. That's actually for the w I
Speaker 1: don't have any Wi Fi at my house, so I
Speaker 1: can't even look.
Speaker 2: I've been deleting Instagram. I just like during the week
Speaker 2: for the most part, I just have it deleted because
Speaker 2: if it's on my phone, Chelsea, I just pick it
Speaker 2: up and then I get.
Speaker 1: Lest oh that's smart, how do you delete it? So
Speaker 1: you delete it and you take it down and then
Speaker 1: for the week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so your your Instagram is still there. But
Speaker 2: I just like have the app off of my phone,
Speaker 2: so like if I need to look at it, like
Speaker 2: look something up for work, I've got it on my iPad.
Speaker 2: But I don't have my iPad sitting next to me
Speaker 2: all of the time. What I find is, even when
Speaker 2: I don't have it on there, without even thinking, I
Speaker 2: do it all.
Speaker 1: The time too. Just do it, Okay, so you can
Speaker 1: delete it and then you get back your app like okay.
Speaker 1: So I think that's smart and you should apply that
Speaker 1: to your shopping.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I need to set myself like a timer
Speaker 2: and be like, you can look for an hour and
Speaker 2: then it's.
Speaker 1: Talking cret like what what what?
Speaker 2: But it's like it's a it's a symptom of so
Speaker 2: many different things.
Speaker 1: It is a symptom. But then you're being run by that,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? The Internet is running you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Are you gonna let that happen?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let it happen.
Speaker 3: Chelsea.
Speaker 1: We've added second shows. Second shows now to Portland, Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: the Pantagious, Boston Backwang Center, and I've added second shows
Speaker 1: New York, Seattle, DC. Go to Chelsea Hammler dot com.
Speaker 1: This tour has been the most fun. It's so fucking silly.
Speaker 1: Wait till you see me showing you how I masturbated
Speaker 1: when I was eight years old.
Speaker 2: Do you bring a ladle on stage.
Speaker 1: I don't bring the label on stage, but I demonstrate
Speaker 1: what I did for about a year of my life
Speaker 1: when I found out about my Pikachu and all of
Speaker 1: the pleasure it could offer me. Oh and one city,
Speaker 1: I want to do a special shout out for is
Speaker 1: Long Island because we added a show at this It's
Speaker 1: a little show. It's only a thousand seats called the
Speaker 1: Clubhouse in East Hampton. So I want to promote that
Speaker 1: in case anybody here is in the Hampton's over the summer,
Speaker 1: because that is going to be a nice intimate show.
Speaker 2: Oh that sounds so lovely. I love a small show.
Speaker 1: I do too, and I do it. I mean it's nice,
Speaker 1: you know, for your ego to have bigger crowds. So
Speaker 1: I like that as well. But I do like intimacy,
Speaker 1: like I love when I wore my show up at
Speaker 1: comedy clubs, Like that's always fun, you know, when you
Speaker 1: can talk to people like upfront, you know, when you're
Speaker 1: on a theater or in a like an amphitheater and arena,
Speaker 1: like you can't really it's just like people, yeah, because
Speaker 1: nobody else can see them, right, And yeah, so there's
Speaker 1: a little bit more of like a barricade between you
Speaker 1: and the audience, if you will, Yes, I want to
Speaker 1: recommend that book, The Covenant of Water.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you were starting to read this.
Speaker 1: It's really really transportive. It takes you to another place.
Speaker 1: It's it's mystical, it's beautiful, and it makes you just
Speaker 1: appreciate the world we live in and that people can
Speaker 1: write these stories that are so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Just finished reading Malibu Rising, which is by the same
Speaker 2: author of Daisy Jones on the sixth, but I loved it.
Speaker 2: You just see her setting up all these different characters
Speaker 2: and all these different scenarios and then like halfway through
Speaker 2: the book, she just starts knocking them down like Domino's
Speaker 2: and it's fantastic. It's a really fun read. It's an
Speaker 2: easy read, and it's nice before bedtime reading.
Speaker 1: I finished that book Lucky You, which I think I recommended.
Speaker 1: That was a good book.
Speaker 2: That's where I'm reading about.
Speaker 1: That was about this woman, this Kenyan girl. She grows
Speaker 1: up with a very overbearing mother and she lives with
Speaker 1: her like three aunts and I don't know why I
Speaker 1: said aunts, aunts is how I say, and her grandmother
Speaker 1: and she doesn't know anything about her father. She finds
Speaker 1: out something about her father later in life that her
Speaker 1: mother kept from her, which is very disruptive to her
Speaker 1: because she kind of felt like nobody told her the truth.
Speaker 1: Then she gets accepted to Barnard College in New York.
Speaker 1: She moves there, and she comes from Africa and then
Speaker 1: goes to the United States. The whole different in racism
Speaker 1: and being African versus being African American. She has to
Speaker 1: kind of come up against and she has a couple
Speaker 1: of relationships. And it's very beautiful too. It's fiction and
Speaker 1: it's a short book. And then she kind of, you
Speaker 1: know how her family plays a role in that. Her
Speaker 1: mom really wants her to go do one specific thing,
Speaker 1: be a doctor, be a business person, and she wants
Speaker 1: has cravings to do other things. It is just the
Speaker 1: story about a coming of age story and your how
Speaker 1: you deal with your responsibility to your family versus your
Speaker 1: responsibility to yourself.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. Yeah, Okay, so a
Speaker 2: few years ago I decided not to waste my one
Speaker 2: precious life finishing books that I wasn't enjoying. What's your
Speaker 2: benchmark for that?
Speaker 1: Do you like always.
Speaker 2: Finish a book? Do you give a book like fifty
Speaker 2: or one hundred pages.
Speaker 1: I like to give it one hundred pages. I recently
Speaker 1: did put a book down. I won't say what it
Speaker 1: is because that's not nice, but it was just chick lit,
Speaker 1: and I don't like that. I like a little bit
Speaker 1: more elevated. I want to be learning stuff. I want
Speaker 1: I need to be looking up words when I'm reading. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I need to see words that I don't know the
Speaker 1: meeting of, and if it's historical, I will never not
Speaker 1: finish it because I feel like I owe that to society.
Speaker 1: I owe that to everybody to be as well educated
Speaker 1: and versed in every topic that I can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to yourself too. You know you are loves
Speaker 2: continuing education.
Speaker 1: Yes, I do. I do.
Speaker 2: I do well, Chelsea. I have some updates speaking of
Speaker 2: continuing the conversation A from way back in our Jamie
Speaker 2: Greenberg episode.
Speaker 1: She had shout out to Jamie. She listens every week.
Speaker 2: I love her so much.
Speaker 1: Now I haven't seen her in weeks though I'm going
Speaker 1: through withdrawals.
Speaker 2: I feel like she is the person that like every
Speaker 2: person who meets her is probably like I could be
Speaker 2: besties with her. She's just so fun by the way.
Speaker 1: I like your nails. You don't have the pointy ones now? No,
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: I'm flat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish Jamie would do that. That's why I
Speaker 1: haven't seen her actually, because of her nails. I have
Speaker 1: a restraining order against her until she starts going oh
Speaker 1: natural again.
Speaker 2: I feel like I accidentally gave myself like like nineties
Speaker 2: alien nail.
Speaker 1: No, I like them, Okay, I like them. I mean
Speaker 1: the twenty one I find tricky. Yeah, how do you
Speaker 1: give a hand job like that?
Speaker 2: Very carefully?
Speaker 1: I like that you guys are still giving each other
Speaker 1: hand jobs.
Speaker 2: No one's doing that, that's true, though, I mean I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: He's blushing, she's blushing, and I'm single as usual.
Speaker 2: So a from our Jamie Greenberg episode, she had sort
Speaker 2: of like self medicated with self help and hadn't seen
Speaker 2: a therapist ever and was wondering how to start therapy
Speaker 2: as an adult. Is how she had praised it. This
Speaker 2: is a long overdue follow up, but it took me
Speaker 2: a few months to get started with therapy, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to have a good number of sessions under my
Speaker 2: belt before sending this to know that I've truly committed.
Speaker 2: Since hearing the episode. I've started to meet with a
Speaker 2: therapist weekly. It has already been life changing, and I
Speaker 2: cannot thank you both enough for all of your encouragement
Speaker 2: and giving me the push that I desperately needed. It's
Speaker 2: definitely been really, really hard, and I'm still feeling the
Speaker 2: growing pains of beginning therapy as an adult. But being
Speaker 2: able to be completely honest and say things out loud
Speaker 2: to another person that I've only ever been in my
Speaker 2: head for years has lifted such a weight from my
Speaker 2: chest in mind, I'm learning so much. Chelsea's words, specifically
Speaker 2: be brave and also when she said do you want
Speaker 2: to be brave or do you want to be a
Speaker 2: pussy have become my internal mantras what I'm feeling afraid
Speaker 2: or hesitant before a session or about bringing up a
Speaker 2: specific topic. Ps. My therapist gave me an audiobook to
Speaker 2: listen to after one of our first sessions, and within
Speaker 2: the first few minutes, the author quoted Dan Siegel a
Speaker 2: little signed from the universe. I guess thanks again, A.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's cute. You know, That's what everybody needs is
Speaker 1: like a witness. Sometimes you just need somebody to witness
Speaker 1: what happened to you. And you just have to tell somebody.
Speaker 1: And the therapeutic value of that is so underrated. And
Speaker 1: by the way, it's starting therapy as an adult who cares.
Speaker 1: When you started, it doesn't matter. It's an adjustment, of course,
Speaker 1: like as she mentioned in her letter. But the other
Speaker 1: thing to remember is I heard Brene Brown say this.
Speaker 1: Every person has been through trauma. Everyone at some point.
Speaker 1: The degree of trauma varies from person to person. But
Speaker 1: something has happened where you've been neglected, traumatized, ignored, or abused.
Speaker 1: You'll fit into some bucket of it. And that when
Speaker 1: we reach adulthood, specifically the age of forty, which people
Speaker 1: like to call a midlife crisis, is when the barriers
Speaker 1: that you build around you start to weigh off. Your
Speaker 1: protective layer and your protective coding, the way that you
Speaker 1: learn to deal with this trauma or abuse or whatever
Speaker 1: happens to you or neglect. At a certain age, it
Speaker 1: starts to shed and it doesn't work for you anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's why people at that age most commonly start
Speaker 1: to go, wait a second, what's going on here. I'm
Speaker 1: having all these feelings. I'm not comfortable with the feelings
Speaker 1: I'm having I'm having self assurance issues or insecurity, and
Speaker 1: she put it in such a beautiful way, because that
Speaker 1: is what it is. Yeah, we get to an age
Speaker 1: where you have to become self actualized in order to
Speaker 1: grow and without delving into the work of what happened
Speaker 1: to you as a kid. And it's not to say
Speaker 1: that everybody had some terrible childhood. It doesn't mean that.
Speaker 1: It just means that you've developed coping mechanisms, coping mechanisms
Speaker 1: to situations that weren't fun for you.
Speaker 2: A family friend of ours who she had been in
Speaker 2: her childhood through like worst case scenario like parents were
Speaker 2: in a cult. There was tons of sexual abuse, like
Speaker 2: really awful, awful stuff, and she said the same thing,
Speaker 2: like when you get to your thirties, everything you have
Speaker 2: to protect you grumbles, like none of it works anymore.
Speaker 2: And for her, she had gotten into like such a
Speaker 2: state of you know, sort of reliving these traumas that
Speaker 2: she was almost inconsolable for a long time, and she
Speaker 2: actually started equine therapy, she started working with horses, and
Speaker 2: for her, because she had such an acute level of damage,
Speaker 2: that was something that like she didn't at first have
Speaker 2: to talk to anybody. It was just about like being
Speaker 2: with an animal, taking care of another being, and that
Speaker 2: was sort of her entree into dealing with all of
Speaker 2: the trauma that she had been through. But I think
Speaker 2: it's true, whether it's like being teased in school or
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, big che traumas like that, we've
Speaker 2: all got something that we're covering up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like when my parents didn't pick me up from
Speaker 1: Haber School or regular school or from any functions really,
Speaker 1: and we're just I remember telling Dan Siegel about it
Speaker 1: and him saying, that's a neglect, like that you were abandoned.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, no, it's not that serious. He goes, No,
Speaker 1: you've convinced yourself it's not that serious. He goes, it
Speaker 1: is serious. You're a little girl waiting for your father
Speaker 1: to pick you up from school and he did show
Speaker 1: up multiple times. That's trauma. And I kept thinking, no,
Speaker 1: that's just too like, but he was. Because the way
Speaker 1: that I am now about being left behind is the
Speaker 1: same as I was when I was a kid. Panic,
Speaker 1: you know, like I have to read. That's why i'm early.
Speaker 1: Even when I try to be late. I have to
Speaker 1: be on time because I don't I just have this
Speaker 1: like internal clock that has developed from all of those
Speaker 1: times where I was left waiting. Yeah mm hmmm, so
Speaker 1: I definitely don't like to be kept waiting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this is a follow up from Dana. I
Speaker 2: remember who had the creepy.
Speaker 1: Steps ahah yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah yes.
Speaker 2: And we had read on the podcast a follow up
Speaker 2: from someone else who was like, this could be the
Speaker 2: beginning mental health stuff as well. So Dana says, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for sharing the follow ups from other callers.
Speaker 2: I actually agree that it's possible this is the onset
Speaker 2: of mental illness in my steps on. After thinking about
Speaker 2: it some more, I remember that his maternal grandmother was
Speaker 2: mentally ill, as well as one of his uncles, which
Speaker 2: is why it's so important to talk about this stuff
Speaker 2: in families. I'm disheartened, as I was hoping my step
Speaker 2: son's relationship with my son would be one of the
Speaker 2: strongest bonds in their lives. As time goes on, though
Speaker 2: his behavior becomes increasingly odd and worrisome, they have less
Speaker 2: and less contact. Thank you again both for your advice
Speaker 2: and for being awesome all my best, Dana. So it
Speaker 2: sounds like they're sort of like phasing out alone time
Speaker 2: with her son and that's probably for the best. And
Speaker 2: our next email fall up is this one I think
Speaker 2: is so interesting. So Corey had written in during our
Speaker 2: Laurel and Jackson episode and Corey was in a relationship
Speaker 2: with someone who he was like thinking about getting married to,
Speaker 2: and his boyfriend was from another country and they were
Speaker 2: thinking about doing sort of a green card marriage but
Speaker 2: also like being in love. And Laurel and Jackson kept saying,
Speaker 2: I see three months, three months keeps coming up, and
Speaker 2: the caller kept being like, oh, Corey kept being like,
Speaker 2: oh no, no, no, you know nothing's gonna happen in three months. Well,
Speaker 2: Corey says, y'all wanted an update to pass on, and
Speaker 2: I got one for you. He bailed on me. He
Speaker 2: and I dated for another month or two after the podcast.
Speaker 2: I told him how I felt and that I wanted
Speaker 2: to be his boyfriend, try the marriage that he had
Speaker 2: brought up, et cetera. He said he had too much
Speaker 2: going on to commit to any sort of relationship, despite
Speaker 2: having said otherwise. While we were dating. He started calling
Speaker 2: me buddy friend dude, and then bailed on every plan
Speaker 2: I tried to make. We finally went to dinner and
Speaker 2: I told him I won't date someone who won't communicate
Speaker 2: with me or show basic respect of my time and effort.
Speaker 2: We spoke a tiny bit here and there afterward, but
Speaker 2: I'm done with him. On the right side, I got
Speaker 2: some solid jokes out of it. I appreciate your time
Speaker 2: with me during the podcast despite how it turned out.
Speaker 2: It was really cool to chat with you, Chelsea and Laura.
Speaker 1: Thanks Corey exactly, and I did the math of like
Speaker 1: when he emailed in, and I was like, I think
Speaker 1: it was exactly like three mins.
Speaker 2: That's what I think from just doing the math.
Speaker 1: Oh that's funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, Chelsea, we're going to head into our
Speaker 2: calling in backup segment with Betterhelp, who was sponsoring this segment,
Speaker 2: and today Courtney Cope is joining US licensed marriage family
Speaker 2: therapist and principal clinical operations manager at Betterhelp. Hi Courtney, Hi, Courtney, Hi,
Speaker 2: great to see you both. Hi well, Angela writes dear Chelsea.
Speaker 2: Before I go any further, I just want to point
Speaker 2: out that I love my mother in law dearly, but
Speaker 2: I really could use some advice on how to deal
Speaker 2: with her in certain situations. I need to rewind a
Speaker 2: bit before I was in the picture. My partner, who's
Speaker 2: now thirty seven, lost his sister to cancer when she
Speaker 2: was just fifteen and he was ten. As anyone can imagine,
Speaker 2: this broke them as a family and changed them completely.
Speaker 2: We have a one year old little boy, and since
Speaker 2: having him, I have so much more empathy for what
Speaker 2: they all went through. However, every time we're together, his
Speaker 2: mum breaks down in tears. The crying isn't always about
Speaker 2: her late daughter. Of course, I will always comfort and
Speaker 2: listen when she speaks about her. This will never be
Speaker 2: an issue for me, but it can be over anything.
Speaker 2: It can be over casual conversation about the weather, about
Speaker 2: what books were reading, even what we may be having
Speaker 2: for Tea that evening. A lot of the conversations we have,
Speaker 2: I find she often puts a negative, debbie downer spin on.
Speaker 2: It'll cry and get emotional at other people's problems too,
Speaker 2: even people she barely knows. But lately, I just feel
Speaker 2: like every time we're due to see her, I instantly
Speaker 2: start to feel miserable. It's like I'm anticipating the emotions
Speaker 2: that are about to come, and I feel like the
Speaker 2: life and happiness has been drained from me when I
Speaker 2: leave her. She also has a tendency to make everything
Speaker 2: about her, which is extremely annoying. I completely understand why
Speaker 2: she has this dark side to her, given everything that's
Speaker 2: happened in the past. I'd never want her to feel
Speaker 2: like she can't talk about her daughter to me. I'll
Speaker 2: hold her hand and cry and laugh on the occasion,
Speaker 2: but I can't deal with the constant downing of everything else.
Speaker 2: So do you have any advice on how I can
Speaker 2: handle this going forward. I always try and make light
Speaker 2: of the situations, but it rarely works. Thanks for taking
Speaker 2: the time to read this, Angela.
Speaker 6: Well, Angela, I can't tell you how many therapy sessions
Speaker 6: I've had that started off with. First of all, I
Speaker 6: want to point out that I love my mother in law.
Speaker 3: Dear relief but.
Speaker 6: So super common. I don't think this is a question
Speaker 6: about grief. This is really a question about this woman
Speaker 6: is feeling trapped and not like she can do anything
Speaker 6: about the situation, or that her efforts to change it
Speaker 6: in the past had been unsuccessful. And ideally, in a
Speaker 6: situation like this, I would love to see husband and
Speaker 6: wife sit down together discuss this as a unit, and
Speaker 6: perhaps even take two to three sessions with a couple's
Speaker 6: therapistics or some solutions, because this is really about the husband,
Speaker 6: the wife, and now their new one year old child
Speaker 6: as a unit, deciding how they want to move forward
Speaker 6: with the relationship with his parents in a way that
Speaker 6: works for their family unit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's good advice because you do need
Speaker 1: like a team member because she does feel so trapped,
Speaker 1: like the idea of having to hang out with somebody
Speaker 1: that's such a debbie downer and knowing that it's an
Speaker 1: obligation of yours by way of marriage isn't fair. It's
Speaker 1: just not only to a degree and you've reached your limit.
Speaker 6: It sounds like right, And the general consensus among most
Speaker 6: couples therapy experts is that it's really important that an
Speaker 6: adult child, when they're now engaging in an intimate adult
Speaker 6: relationship like a marriage, a domestic partnership, they have to
Speaker 6: choose their partner over their parent. And what I mean
Speaker 6: by that is if something isn't working for their partner
Speaker 6: or something's affecting their partner, they have to prioritize their
Speaker 6: partner's feelings over their parents in order to be able
Speaker 6: to move forward. And have not only a healthy relationship,
Speaker 6: but a healthy adult experience, because no adult should be
Speaker 6: under the thumb of their mother or father's will imperpetuity, right,
Speaker 6: that would just hinder them as an adult for the
Speaker 6: rest of their life. So that would be what I
Speaker 6: would say about that. But also I just of course
Speaker 6: have to say losing a child is of course considered
Speaker 6: one of the most ultimate tragedies, and of course is
Speaker 6: going to impact somebody for the rest of their life
Speaker 6: in some way or another. That being said, it is
Speaker 6: not this person's job to be their mother in law's therapist,
Speaker 6: to sit down and find solutions specific for their mother
Speaker 6: in law. So this is really I think about the
Speaker 6: husband and wife having constructive conversations here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, because it is his responsibility to get the
Speaker 1: situation started. You know, it's his mom.
Speaker 2: When that moment comes and you're like sitting around the
Speaker 2: table talking about literally the weather, and she breaks down
Speaker 2: in tears, what's the move? I mean, my instinct is
Speaker 2: to be like, I'm going to give you a couple minutes,
Speaker 2: like they're there, I'm going to give you a couple
Speaker 2: of minutes and walk away. But like that also feels
Speaker 2: a little icy cold from me, what's the move to,
Speaker 2: like break the cycle that she knows is coming.
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 6: In an ideal world, we would have husband and wife
Speaker 6: ahead of time, deciding, like, hey, if mom starts crying
Speaker 6: or mother in law starts crying at this visit, husband
Speaker 6: is going to step in and he's gonna take over
Speaker 6: say something. Wife can excuse herself whatever it is, but
Speaker 6: let's just say it's just her and mother in law, right.
Speaker 6: I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding ahead of time.
Speaker 6: What do I have capacity for if I don't want
Speaker 6: to go down this road for more than fifteen seconds
Speaker 6: or thirty five seconds? Doing exactly what you said, Catherine
Speaker 6: is totally appropriate, Like I hear you, and I'm gonna
Speaker 6: step outside and get some fresh air. You know, I'm
Speaker 6: gonna go pour another cup of tea. Anything to pattern
Speaker 6: interrupt would be really useful. But the other thing I
Speaker 6: would also encourage is to have husband and wife ahead
Speaker 6: of time maybe start looking at the ways they're spending
Speaker 6: time with mother in law and if there's ways they
Speaker 6: can redirect that quality time together into avenues that maybe
Speaker 6: won't bring it about as much. Now I want to
Speaker 6: acknowledge they might be limited. They have a one year old,
Speaker 6: so it's not like they can take the one year
Speaker 6: old and just like go to theater or movies with
Speaker 6: the mother.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you thought about taking your mother skiing?
Speaker 6: I hear Chelsea's good at that. So they definitely want
Speaker 6: to do things that are not just sitting and staring
Speaker 6: at you each other across from their cup of tea, right,
Speaker 6: because that's going to invite probably conversations that they don't
Speaker 6: want to have. So thinking ahead of time of what
Speaker 6: they could do, having a plan with her husband that
Speaker 6: if it does come up, what's he going to do
Speaker 6: to step in? And then the last thing I'll say
Speaker 6: is if someone is going to speak directly to the
Speaker 6: mother in law about her behavior or her grief or
Speaker 6: how anything she's doing is impacting anyone, it has to
Speaker 6: be from the husband. I would say it would be
Speaker 6: very difficult for that conversation to go well if it
Speaker 6: came from the wife. And if it comes from the husband,
Speaker 6: him and his mom have a shared experience of grief.
Speaker 6: They both lost a loved one, and so I think
Speaker 6: even for him to be able to say, you know,
Speaker 6: I get it, it's so hard we lost this person
Speaker 6: that we love, and I'm working to be more in
Speaker 6: the moment, and I'd love for you to be more
Speaker 6: in the moment with me. Just something that relates to
Speaker 6: her instead of shaming her, blaming her, I think would
Speaker 6: be really important here.
Speaker 2: Courtney Cope, thank you. Courtney is a licensed marriage and
Speaker 2: family therapist and principal clinical operations manager at Betterhelp. And
Speaker 2: of course, thank you again to Better Help for sponsoring
Speaker 2: calling him back up.
Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Thanks Cording.
Speaker 2: Thanks Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 2: back with some callers.
Speaker 1: Okay, and we are back.
Speaker 3: We are back.
Speaker 1: I've decided to start changing the way I say we're
Speaker 1: back because it's starting to annoy me.
Speaker 2: That's all right, someone wrote in They're like, you know,
Speaker 2: you guys don't have to announce it. I'm like, but
Speaker 2: it's the bit for the people who are in the room.
Speaker 2: There's no actual break.
Speaker 1: Tell that person a file a lawsuit. If I don't
Speaker 1: like it, I will, I will.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: Our first email comes from Zach. Zach says, I first
Speaker 2: want to say how much of a fan I am
Speaker 2: of your podcast and all that you do. I loved
Speaker 2: seeing I read Rocks Chelsea. Now onto my question. I
Speaker 2: just turned thirty three, recently married my husband, and have
Speaker 2: an overall great life. However, now that I'm getting older,
Speaker 2: I realized that I I still do not really know
Speaker 2: who I am. I tend to come off timid, self conscious,
Speaker 2: and doubtful in my life and my career. Although I
Speaker 2: have a great job and perform well in my role.
Speaker 2: I want to be more confident and display more presence.
Speaker 2: What are some actionable things you've done in your life
Speaker 2: to better understand yourself, your purpose, and grow into the
Speaker 2: confident person you are? Mushrooms, who better to ask than you?
Speaker 6: Too?
Speaker 2: Kindest regards, Zachary Reading.
Speaker 1: I reading is an answer to everything that It tells
Speaker 1: you what you're interested in, what makes you learn. It
Speaker 1: shows you your aptitude for growth and interest in other
Speaker 1: cultures and situations that are different than you. And it
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter what you read, but you should read
Speaker 1: stuff that isn't like your life like. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if you're reading fiction or nonfiction, or magazines or newspapers.
Speaker 1: It's just good to take you out of yourself. I
Speaker 1: feel like the biggest growth that could happen is from learning,
Speaker 1: and how can you learn more than by reading?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I love that, And there's a
Speaker 2: certain lont of like fake it till you make it too.
Speaker 2: I think confidence is something that when you walk into
Speaker 2: a room and even if you just tell yourself like
Speaker 2: I'm confident I deserve to be here, I think that's
Speaker 2: really helpful. One thing that I came across the other
Speaker 2: day as I was going through some emails was a
Speaker 2: specific task that an old mentor of mine had given me,
Speaker 2: and he said, I want you to write to you know,
Speaker 2: your ten closest people, whether that's family, friends, and ask
Speaker 2: them what do you think are your unique capabilities or
Speaker 2: about yourself? So you would say, what do you think
Speaker 2: are my unique capabilities? What do you think I do
Speaker 2: better than anybody else? Or some of my best qualities?
Speaker 2: And I kind of was flipping through. I had done
Speaker 2: this like ten years ago, and these unique capabilities that
Speaker 2: people reflect back at you, that they've experienced you doing,
Speaker 2: become so fascinating because it's stuff you don't necessarily even
Speaker 2: see in yourself. But having people who you know, you
Speaker 2: can trust, who care about you telling you.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great idea. I could never get away
Speaker 1: with something like that because my whole world revolves around me.
Speaker 1: So my family would be like, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: More with you? But that is a great exercise for
Speaker 1: anybody to do, because I would love to get an
Speaker 1: email like that from one of my.
Speaker 2: Friends totally, and you'd be like, here's all the things
Speaker 2: are great at because other people's experience of us sometimes
Speaker 2: sometimes there's a lot more positive than what we have
Speaker 2: going on inside or the timidity we might have going
Speaker 2: right outside.
Speaker 1: Right and expanding your knowledge as always, Like when I
Speaker 1: talk about reading so much, it's because a it gives
Speaker 1: you something to discuss, right, You can always bring that
Speaker 1: up in a conversation, so it's a conversation starter. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes our brains shut down when we're low or depressed
Speaker 1: or tired. We don't have a lot of growth happening, right,
Speaker 1: So if you want your brain circuitry to always be electric,
Speaker 1: there is that is the best way to do that
Speaker 1: is to engage and not by being online and watching Instagram.
Speaker 1: That's not going to do it. That's dead energy. Watching
Speaker 1: TV can also be dead energy unless you're watching a
Speaker 1: documentary and there's a lot of learnings in there. But
Speaker 1: active energy is you know, filling yourself up with so
Speaker 1: there's just so much value in it. And I love
Speaker 1: to know things that I don't know about so that
Speaker 1: I'm not so harsh to judge things that are not
Speaker 1: familiar to me. And I think reading is a great
Speaker 1: vehicle for that. And it does instill confidence in you
Speaker 1: because you get a better command over the use of language.
Speaker 1: You understand differences better.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I just I should just go to a biblioteca and
Speaker 1: register myself as as a permanent librarian. That's what will
Speaker 1: make me happy. Maybe I'll do that in Spain in
Speaker 1: my old age. I'll become a librarian at a bibliotecha
Speaker 1: when I finally get command over the Spanish language.
Speaker 2: Reading in Spanish is a whole other thing. I always
Speaker 2: have to look up a lot of things. Yeah, it's,
Speaker 2: you know, different than conversation. Our first caller today is Beth.
Speaker 2: She is forty one. She's a personal trainer. She says,
Speaker 2: I met a guy four months ago on a dating app.
Speaker 2: There were red flags at first, like him being in
Speaker 2: prison a decade ago for two years for trespassing supposedly
Speaker 2: which didn't make sense to me, and that he didn't
Speaker 2: have any friends However, we connected quickly and things moved
Speaker 2: very fast. I was vulnerable, looking for love and a
Speaker 2: real connection. He told me he loved me after a
Speaker 2: month and was even talking about moving in together. He
Speaker 2: wanted to be with me all the time, which I liked,
Speaker 2: but now knows a red flag him being needy and
Speaker 2: very codependent. Every weekend he would buy molly and cocaine
Speaker 2: and said it was just a weekend thing. He would
Speaker 2: also drink and get angry over nothing and block me
Speaker 2: for days at a time, and then come back and
Speaker 2: tell me he was seeking out other women but missed me.
Speaker 2: At the end, he told me he cheated on me
Speaker 2: and he was sorry, but he needed to break it
Speaker 2: off to work on himself. Our relationship lasted about three months.
Speaker 2: Less than a week after he ended things, I came
Speaker 2: to find out he made friends with people in my
Speaker 2: apartment complex, most of whom I know do drugs as well,
Speaker 2: including a friend of mine. Then I heard from our
Speaker 2: mutual friend that they are now dating, and he's already
Speaker 2: told her he loves her, love bombing her like he
Speaker 2: did to me. It's been a little over a week
Speaker 2: now and I see his car in my parking garage
Speaker 2: twenty four to sevens.
Speaker 1: It's a gross person.
Speaker 2: Yep. It seems like he's already moved in. I even
Speaker 2: saw him when he was going to his car in
Speaker 2: my garage and I was in my car leaving for work.
Speaker 2: We made eye contact as I drove by. He's technically
Speaker 2: not even allowed to be parked in my garage because
Speaker 2: he's not a resident, but my complex doesn't do anything
Speaker 2: about it, even though I reported him. I've also seen
Speaker 2: him from a far walking her dog in the complex.
Speaker 2: I've realized he's a manipulator, compulsive liar, and possibly a
Speaker 2: con artist who probably tries this with every girl he meets.
Speaker 2: But it's been getting pretty hard to get over the
Speaker 2: whole situation. I've blocked him in this now former friend,
Speaker 2: but I'm finding myself looking over my shoulder in my complex.
Speaker 2: I don't want anything to do with him or her,
Speaker 2: but now I feel like I need to move. My
Speaker 2: lease is up in about three weeks, but I also
Speaker 2: have rent control and I love the area I've been
Speaker 2: living in for seven years, and no, I won't find
Speaker 2: a place I can afford where I want to live.
Speaker 2: My friends keep telling me this won't last. Should I
Speaker 2: move or should I stay and wait it out? Bath?
Speaker 2: Hi Bath?
Speaker 1: Now, Hi, sorry that you had to deal with such
Speaker 1: a scumbag. He's so disgusting.
Speaker 6: I thank you.
Speaker 4: I'm still dealing with it.
Speaker 3: I know, I know.
Speaker 1: I have two thoughts. I don't think you should move
Speaker 1: because this relationship is not going to last. He's unstable
Speaker 1: and he's just siphoning off of whomever is available. But
Speaker 1: do you feel like he could potentially be a dangerous person?
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: What was he in prison for?
Speaker 5: Again? He says trustpassing, but I mean he's in prison
Speaker 5: for trustpassing for two years.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think I think he's lying.
Speaker 1: I think you should look that up and find out.
Speaker 1: There's got to be a public record of what he
Speaker 1: served time for.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I tried, but it's I think it's over ten years,
Speaker 5: so I'm not sure if I can get those records.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's dangerous. I think he would have
Speaker 4: done something by now.
Speaker 5: I did put like a ring camera on my door,
Speaker 5: and I have a tesla of the records. You know,
Speaker 5: if you go near my car. Oh good, I feel
Speaker 5: safe in that respect.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I mean, if he's getting Molly on the weekends.
Speaker 1: That usually doesn't lead to danger, but I mean, who knows,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean alcohol cocaine does. So I don't
Speaker 1: think you should move. Okay, it doesn't sound like you're
Speaker 1: in danger. You're just it's very irritating for you to
Speaker 1: have to deal with this. And then, but you know
Speaker 1: what kind of person he is, he will definitely do
Speaker 1: the same thing with this woman. It will happen and
Speaker 1: he will be gone.
Speaker 4: Used to be my friend.
Speaker 5: I mean she lives in my complex too, and she
Speaker 5: was my friend for like two years. I hear from
Speaker 5: other people she's saying, I mean, I know this just
Speaker 5: make herself feel better. Then we were never friends.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so she's not open having a conversation with you, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think so. I mean I blocked her.
Speaker 4: I don't want to deal with her, but I still
Speaker 4: have to.
Speaker 5: Also, she lives in my complex too, so it's like
Speaker 5: I'd risk running into her as well.
Speaker 1: I think, just we really play the high road on
Speaker 1: this one. Do not interact with them. You don't have
Speaker 1: to have any business with them. Who cares what she's saying?
Speaker 1: Who cares what she'll have us to be singing a
Speaker 1: different tune when she gets sucked over by him. I
Speaker 1: assure you that she will be knocking on your door
Speaker 1: to commiserate about the idiot that you both dated, but
Speaker 1: it'll be too late by then. Just I know, it's
Speaker 1: an icky situation, but it's not permanent. It's not gonna
Speaker 1: last for very long. And don't disrupt your life because
Speaker 1: of some idiot and be grateful that you only spent
Speaker 1: three months with him.
Speaker 4: Yeah right, I'm hoping. I'm hoping that's the case. Everyone
Speaker 4: says it's not gonna last.
Speaker 5: It's just like it's like he's been I just see
Speaker 5: his car in my garage and it's not supposed to
Speaker 5: be there, but my complex is not doing anything about
Speaker 5: it all the time.
Speaker 4: It's just always there.
Speaker 2: It does feel very con artist, like I'm glad that
Speaker 2: you said that. Did he ask you for money or
Speaker 2: like have you pay for stuff or that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: It seemed like he was getting there.
Speaker 5: But I think also that he knew he couldn't scam
Speaker 5: me like that, so that's why he stopped it with me.
Speaker 5: And he knows like she's more vulnerable, uh huh, and
Speaker 5: he can get away with it with her. That's what
Speaker 5: it seems like, I mean, he was also talking about
Speaker 5: moving in with me too it right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I feel like this guy is like
Speaker 2: doesn't have a home, and he's just like moving in
Speaker 2: with whatever girl will have him.
Speaker 4: It seems though.
Speaker 5: I mean I've been to his apartment, I mean before,
Speaker 5: but I don't know.
Speaker 4: It could be.
Speaker 1: But I mean, if there is any danger, if there
Speaker 1: at any point you feel like you're in danger, you
Speaker 1: really have to engage the police. Yeah, you can't take
Speaker 1: a risk like that and think, oh, if somebody's not dangerous,
Speaker 1: that's what a lot of people think that about a
Speaker 1: lot of people, and with his record and not knowing
Speaker 1: why he was in prison and his drug use and
Speaker 1: all of those things. Like obviously you don't have to
Speaker 1: do that prematurely, but if something starts to happen that
Speaker 1: you feel unsafe, like I don't want you running around
Speaker 1: being like get his car out of the parking lot.
Speaker 1: Who gives a shit? Like let them go fucking be
Speaker 1: idiots together, Good riddance. It's unfortunate you have to see
Speaker 1: your ex. You know, nobody wants to see their X
Speaker 1: all the time. But I wouldn't make it, you know,
Speaker 1: I have a huge impact on your life and where
Speaker 1: you move right right, I don't want to move.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's to go that I have to move.
Speaker 2: No, no, don't do it.
Speaker 1: Don't talk.
Speaker 2: I agree with Chelsea, like if you do start feeling
Speaker 2: unsafe where he's approaching you or threatening you, then like
Speaker 2: it's time for a restraining order. But like that isn't
Speaker 2: necessarily going to keep him away, but it would be
Speaker 2: something you could bring to your apartment complex and say, like,
Speaker 2: I have this legal document he can't park here, da
Speaker 2: da da. But that's I think down the road.
Speaker 1: Other than that, I think you're not gonna have to
Speaker 1: deal with him in a couple of months. I hope.
Speaker 5: So. I mean, it's been like two weeks and I'm
Speaker 5: like just hoping that this falls apart soon.
Speaker 2: Go on a vacation, get out of here.
Speaker 4: At break. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you can, all right, we'll keep us posted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let us know what happens.
Speaker 1: I will take care.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Love you guys.
Speaker 1: You love me too.
Speaker 2: Bye Bye.
Speaker 1: That's unfortunate, I know, isn't that creepy?
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh awful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how i'd feel about having to
Speaker 1: see somebody all the time, but when you know somebody
Speaker 1: is such a loser, it kind of takes the sting
Speaker 1: out of the breakup. Yeah, dated an idiot.
Speaker 2: Like you said, It's just like, thank goodness, she figured
Speaker 2: out what was going on soon enough and got away
Speaker 2: from him. Because I don't know people like that. They're
Speaker 2: pretty scary.
Speaker 1: I mean, cocaine and Molly on the weekend is like
Speaker 1: maybe one weekend. Like the casualness of saying that is ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Clearly not every weekend. Maybe not every weekend.
Speaker 1: I mean, Molly's fine, but cocaine is another story. I
Speaker 1: speak from experience.
Speaker 2: Britney says, Dear Chelsea, my younger sister and I have
Speaker 2: always been very close, even though we've lived in different
Speaker 2: states for six years. We talk every day and tell
Speaker 2: each other everything cute. She's my best friend. Here's the problem.
Speaker 2: She has a shit husband.
Speaker 1: She's gonna happen right.
Speaker 2: He's a cheating, gaslighting narcissist. They got married when they
Speaker 2: were eighteen, when he enlisted in the army. They moved
Speaker 2: out of state and had their first kid when they
Speaker 2: were nineteen. They're now twenty four and have three kids
Speaker 2: under four. Before she got pregnant with her first kid,
Speaker 2: she found out that her husband was active on dating websites.
Speaker 2: She confronted him, they quote worked it out, and continued
Speaker 2: on with their relationship. Fast forward, when her second kid
Speaker 2: was six months old, she found out with hard proof
Speaker 2: that her husband had cheated on her countless times over
Speaker 2: the previous two years. She began the process of leaving
Speaker 2: him and figuring out what their new lives would look like.
Speaker 2: Then somehow he talked his way back into a relationship
Speaker 2: with her. This has repeated itself in different forms a
Speaker 2: few more times since then. Every time shit hits the fan,
Speaker 2: he plays the victim, makes her feel crazy, then professes
Speaker 2: his guilt and love, and says he's willing to change.
Speaker 2: Needless to say, it's obvious he will never change. I
Speaker 2: know that the main reason she stays is because she's
Speaker 2: terrified of how difficult of a process it will be
Speaker 2: to divorce him and to figure out how to support
Speaker 2: herself financially. I told my sister a while back that
Speaker 2: I'll always be there for her, but I'm done hearing
Speaker 2: about all the shit he puts her through. If she's
Speaker 2: not going to do anything to change her situation, true
Speaker 2: truly heartbreaking and mentally taxing for me to watch my
Speaker 2: sister willingly stay in this toxic marriage and continually be
Speaker 2: treated this way. Our relationship has slowly been affected by
Speaker 2: this because there's this huge elephant in the room whenever
Speaker 2: we talk. We don't have any resentment toward each other
Speaker 2: or anything like that, things just aren't the same. How
Speaker 2: can I help my sister realize that she needs out
Speaker 2: and will be so much happier on the other side
Speaker 2: of an inevitable, nasty divorce, Or how can I just
Speaker 2: come to terms with the fact that I need to
Speaker 2: let this all go, not stress about something I can't
Speaker 2: change and risk losing my close relationship with my sister.
Speaker 2: Help me? Brittany.
Speaker 1: Hi, Brittany Hi. So what's the rest of your family?
Speaker 1: Do you have other siblings parents?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I have an older brother, a younger brother, and then
Speaker 7: my sister's the youngest.
Speaker 1: And is there any talk of maybe all of you
Speaker 1: having some sort of like a quasi intervention with her.
Speaker 7: No. I mean we're all really close, but nobody else
Speaker 7: besides me really gets involved in her situation. She doesn't
Speaker 7: really tell anybody anything, So I'm kind of the middleman
Speaker 7: within the whole situation. So she's kind of told my
Speaker 7: parents a little bit of what's going on, but they
Speaker 7: don't know in detail because she's embarrassed frankly by the
Speaker 7: whole situation, So they only know bits and pieces. But
Speaker 7: they know she needs out as well. But I'm really
Speaker 7: the only one who speaks out on it.
Speaker 1: And do you think that you could corral your brothers?
Speaker 7: They just honestly don't really care that much. I think
Speaker 7: they know, like they want her to get out and
Speaker 7: they want her to be happy, but I think they're
Speaker 7: just more reserved and quiet in that sense. And Okay, honestly,
Speaker 7: I don't think she values their opinion enough to really
Speaker 7: make a difference.
Speaker 1: Well they're men, so that makes sense, right right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no offense, Brad. I think maybe you should have a
Speaker 1: conversation with your parents right to try and do something together,
Speaker 1: like sit her down with the three of you, like,
Speaker 1: we can't watch you go through your life like this,
Speaker 1: and the impact that this relationship, the damaging impact that
Speaker 1: this relationship is going to have on her children and
Speaker 1: they self esteem that these kids grow up with, and
Speaker 1: the way they see their mother tree and remaining in
Speaker 1: a relationship is going to have far reaching negational if yes,
Speaker 1: it's going to be trauma for all of them, and
Speaker 1: she is allowing her children to be traumatized by her
Speaker 1: inability to get out of a relationship that is negative
Speaker 1: and toxic and controlling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, cheating, You can make an argument that that's
Speaker 2: abusive or not, but the gas lighting like that is
Speaker 2: straight up but.
Speaker 1: Repetitive cheating is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's absolutely And I wonder if she understands it
Speaker 2: in that context of like you are being abused. It
Speaker 2: takes someone seven times to get out of this relationship.
Speaker 2: I know you know, you and I had even talked
Speaker 2: about like having her potentially common move in with you,
Speaker 2: and that that's something you've expressed you would be open to,
Speaker 2: right exactly.
Speaker 7: That's just a heart scenario because she does have three children,
Speaker 7: and they would have in Washington State and I'm in California.
Speaker 7: So the custody thing is a huge issue. I think
Speaker 7: he would make that a living hell for her because
Speaker 7: he's even threatened in the past like you're not going
Speaker 7: to see your kid, you don't make any money. I
Speaker 7: make all the money there, Like there's no way you'd
Speaker 7: get custody, which is bogus. I mean that he just
Speaker 7: doesn't know what he's talking about, but it terrifies her.
Speaker 7: She doesn't want to go through it. So I know
Speaker 7: if she were to leave him, she would stay up there.
Speaker 7: And then she just doesn't have a strong support system
Speaker 7: up there, which is why I think she's done the
Speaker 7: back and forth so many times, because he just weels
Speaker 7: his way back in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so she doesn't.
Speaker 3: Have a job, right, No, she's stay home mom.
Speaker 1: And is there any possibility of you being able to
Speaker 1: move up there?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 7: My husband right now, he's we're locked in where we're
Speaker 7: at for at least another five years. So we've talked
Speaker 7: about it in the past, but it's just not a
Speaker 7: possibility right now.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I do you think it's important to have a plan
Speaker 2: because you know this is not going to not happen again.
Speaker 2: It's going to happen again. And I think because you
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen again, you can have a
Speaker 2: plan and maybe that is when this happens again. I
Speaker 2: fly up, I go get her. She stays with us
Speaker 2: for two weeks, having a plan in place where it's
Speaker 2: like a specific amount of time that's enough for her
Speaker 2: to sort of like get her head a little bit
Speaker 2: right and see, oh, there are other options for me.
Speaker 2: You know, I have a support system. Maybe mom and
Speaker 2: dad will help with some of that stuff as well.
Speaker 2: Whether that's financial or are.
Speaker 1: They in a position your parents to help financially not
Speaker 1: so much, but they would do anything for her.
Speaker 7: There was even a situation, I think a couple years
Speaker 7: ago where my dad was about to sign a lease
Speaker 7: for an apartment for the town I live, so she
Speaker 7: was going to come down here and figure out this
Speaker 7: stuff with the kids later, and he was about to
Speaker 7: sign it and figure all that out, even though he
Speaker 7: can't really afford it. And then a few days went
Speaker 7: by and she's like, oh, no, we're good. Now, we're
Speaker 7: working on it. We're going to go to therapy and
Speaker 7: all that, and then therapy never happens, and it's just
Speaker 7: a cycle. So we've had that situation where she'll come
Speaker 7: to visit me during an event that something like this happens,
Speaker 7: and she's all on board, she knows everything I say,
Speaker 7: she's responsive and understands, and she agrees with me that
Speaker 7: she needs out, and then she goes home to pack
Speaker 7: her things literally, and then I don't here for a
Speaker 7: couple of days, and then she calls me back and
Speaker 7: she's like, we're working on it. So we've tried it all.
Speaker 7: I mean, we're all so supportive of her and want
Speaker 7: her out and trying to help her financially, and I
Speaker 7: think that's not even the issue for her. I think
Speaker 7: it's the whole custody battle, her having to start her
Speaker 7: life over. She's scared, even though she's so young and
Speaker 7: so beautiful, she's scared that nobody's going to want her
Speaker 7: in the future and she's going to be alone, a
Speaker 7: single mom the rest of her life.
Speaker 2: I guess what she here is a home. Nobody else
Speaker 2: is going to want you, like you can ever find
Speaker 2: anybody as as me.
Speaker 1: She needs to read Untamed by Glennon Doyle or read
Speaker 1: one of Brene Brown's books about the value that you
Speaker 1: have in yourself. I mean, this guy is just I
Speaker 1: can't understand why you're so upset. It's like, it's upseting
Speaker 1: to see your sister diminished in this way and to
Speaker 1: be devalued in this way, and not to have confidence
Speaker 1: in her ability. She has her whole life ahead of her,
Speaker 1: and she's choosing to remain in this instead of taking
Speaker 1: the you know, a brave leap, and she needs information.
Speaker 1: You have to figure out a way to get her
Speaker 1: the information so that she understands what happens in divorce.
Speaker 1: She can't just be exposed to his narrative because obviously
Speaker 1: he's going to make her scared of everything and she
Speaker 1: needs distance from him. So yes, I don't know how
Speaker 1: to approach that for you. Like if it were me,
Speaker 1: I would get as involved as possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, which is what I've tried.
Speaker 7: And honestly, he's kind of a scary human, like I
Speaker 7: don't know what he's capable of, and like I said,
Speaker 7: he's super narcissistic. He was in the army for four years.
Speaker 7: He wants to be a police officer eventually, and she does.
Speaker 7: He just feels like he's of this high importance. Yeah,
Speaker 7: and he doesn't ever talk down to her in that
Speaker 7: way like I'm better than you or anything like that,
Speaker 7: but it's well known, like he thinks he runs the
Speaker 7: show around there, and I'm just kind of afraid, Like
Speaker 7: he's never been physically aggressive towards her at all, But
Speaker 7: I don't.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't put it past.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't it sounds it sounds to me, like
Speaker 1: that's in the future, Like that's a definite possibility.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Especially he's just so controlling of her, and he
Speaker 7: thinks he can kick her out whenever he wants, and
Speaker 7: he's just the ruler of her life. So like it's
Speaker 7: only a matter of time before things get physical in
Speaker 7: my mind, you know. And I've told her that too,
Speaker 7: and she's like, yeah, I know, I don't ever think
Speaker 7: he would, But I'm like, you never, you never think
Speaker 7: they would, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, does he kick her out on a semiregular basis.
Speaker 7: So this last time they had a tip a couple
Speaker 7: of weeks ago, was because she went out with a
Speaker 7: friend and ended up going back to this friend's house
Speaker 7: and her boyfriend's roommate was or something. Her boyfriend's friend
Speaker 7: was there, so he thought she was cheating, even though
Speaker 7: she never would. And he's like projecting all these things
Speaker 7: he's done to her.
Speaker 3: Right that he thinks she would do back.
Speaker 7: And so that whole situation, he drove like two hours
Speaker 7: or something to go pick her up in the middle.
Speaker 7: Then I dragged her home, threw a suitcase at her,
Speaker 7: said pack your shit. You're getting out of my house,
Speaker 7: and you're not going to see your daughters for a
Speaker 7: few days. So he's just like he thinks he controls everything,
Speaker 7: even though.
Speaker 3: And did she go, She yeah, she left.
Speaker 7: She stayed with my brother actually lives a few miles
Speaker 7: from her, so she stayed with him for a couple
Speaker 7: of nights. She actually went to see a lawyer and
Speaker 7: figure out what her rights are and what her next
Speaker 7: step should be. And the lawyer was so confident that
Speaker 7: he could never take the kids away from her because
Speaker 7: it's just not factual. Yeah, and then yeah, she had
Speaker 7: the divorce papers ready to be filled out and everything,
Speaker 7: and just once again he's like, I'm so sorry. I'm
Speaker 7: starting to believe you you didn't cheat on me, And
Speaker 7: he just grabbles his way back in and he makes
Speaker 7: all these empty promises.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, this is somebody that is going
Speaker 1: to abuse your sister for sure. This has all the
Speaker 1: writing on the wall, like what it's leading up to.
Speaker 1: That example right there is all you need to know. Like,
Speaker 1: you have got to get her to believe that it
Speaker 1: is time to move out for her safety. And she
Speaker 1: already got she already had a lawyer, Like you have
Speaker 1: to do everything you can to get her out of
Speaker 1: that situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and continuing to let her know like we're here,
Speaker 2: will do whatever. You know. Maybe it's not like your
Speaker 2: parents will be in with a bunch of money because
Speaker 2: that's not possible for them, but will do whatever we
Speaker 2: need to do to make sure you and your kids
Speaker 2: are supported.
Speaker 1: I mean if even if you guys can all pull
Speaker 1: money together, you know, everyone makes whatever contribution they can
Speaker 1: in order for her to afford rent for like the
Speaker 1: short term until a divorce is happening. But this is
Speaker 1: a man who is abusive, that example, is crazy and
Speaker 1: three children. He's going to try and turn them against her,
Speaker 1: like she's the sooner she gets the fuck out of there,
Speaker 1: the safer everyone is going to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And I've told her that numerous times, especially within the
Speaker 7: last couple of years, because everything just it keeps progressing,
Speaker 7: It keeps getting worse. He keeps doing crazier things that
Speaker 7: I never thought he'd be possible of. So it's only
Speaker 7: a matter of time. And when I express these things
Speaker 7: to her, she's like, yeah, I know, like really soft
Speaker 7: spoken about it, but agrees with me. And then she
Speaker 7: turns right back around like yeah, but you don't know
Speaker 7: how good it is when it's good, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 7: I do, because I understand he's actually a great dad,
Speaker 7: which is great for the kids because they don't have
Speaker 7: to experience what my sister's experiencing. But I think she's
Speaker 7: clinging on too that, like she sees how great he
Speaker 7: can be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's not a great dad because he's being
Speaker 1: abusive to his wife, like him going and picking her
Speaker 1: up two hours away because he's convinced she's cheating on him.
Speaker 1: That's abusive. Yeah, that isn't a good father. That's disrespecting
Speaker 1: their mother. He's not a good father. She thinks that
Speaker 1: he's a good father because that's how she's rationalizing it.
Speaker 2: And also, like, this is what abusers do. When it
Speaker 2: is good, it feels you're over the moon, and then
Speaker 2: they take you into the depths of despair. This is
Speaker 2: what they do. And this is also a person who
Speaker 2: it sounds like probably has access to guns and other
Speaker 2: things like this is this is it's important to get
Speaker 2: her out and she may not want to go right away.
Speaker 2: And I know you're exhausted from having the same conversation
Speaker 2: over and over with her, but like you just have
Speaker 2: to keep telling her I'm here and it's not her
Speaker 2: who needs to go pack her stuff. Like when she
Speaker 2: goes back, she doesn't, she can't be in the same.
Speaker 1: But what am I even saying he needs to get out,
Speaker 1: she needs to kick him out, But she doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like she has the tenacity.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 2: I just mean, like you mentioned, like she goes back
Speaker 2: to like get her stuff, and he convinces her, like, no,
Speaker 2: if she's gone, if she's away from him, you got
Speaker 2: to keep her away from him and be like, I'll
Speaker 2: go get your things or somebody one of the brothers
Speaker 2: goes and gets her things whatever, Because when she has
Speaker 2: he has access to her, that's when he's going to
Speaker 2: convince her to come back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, I know.
Speaker 1: Is there a way for you? What's your work schedule? Like, like,
Speaker 1: is there a way for you to go up there
Speaker 1: and spend like two weeks so that you can actually
Speaker 1: get her out of the house.
Speaker 7: Not at the moment, I just can't afford it right now, unfortunately,
Speaker 7: And I have a two year old son too, so
Speaker 7: it's hard for me to pike that time.
Speaker 2: What about mom and dad or or a best friend?
Speaker 2: Is there a best friend in the picture who could
Speaker 2: maybe do that?
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's isolated all of her friends.
Speaker 7: You're right, Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he
Speaker 7: single handedly has, but just her her situation over the years.
Speaker 7: I think her friends who have gotten kind of close,
Speaker 7: they see this roller coaster like I'm leaving him.
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm leaving him. I'm not. So I think that.
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm still here because I'm her sister. But
Speaker 7: I feel like if I was kind of a close
Speaker 7: semi close friend, I probably wouldn't be still, you know,
Speaker 7: just because she's so wishy washy with that, and like
Speaker 7: you think you're helping her and then she just does
Speaker 7: the opposite, and yeah, it's just really hard to continually
Speaker 7: be there for this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and are you what about your brother's living situation? Like,
Speaker 1: is that somewhere she could live and move into.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So she stayed there for a couple of days
Speaker 7: a couple of weeks ago, and he's like, he has
Speaker 7: an ex small extra room, like not room for the kids,
Speaker 7: but at least for her. And it's only like twenty
Speaker 7: minutes from where her kids would be, so she has
Speaker 7: that option too, And he even, you know, he's like,
Speaker 7: as long as you need, you can stay here. And
Speaker 7: she just like up and left, and she's like, I'll
Speaker 7: come get my things tomorrow or going back home. So
Speaker 7: everybody's one hundred percent all in there for her, in
Speaker 7: supportive of her leaving him, and she just keeps getting
Speaker 7: spooked by the thought that either nobody will want her,
Speaker 7: she it's going to be a hard restart of her life,
Speaker 7: or he's going to make her life a litle Yes,
Speaker 7: all that is enough to scare her back in along
Speaker 7: with his sweet talking whatever he says to her.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't compare to the freedom you feel when
Speaker 2: you leave an abuse her.
Speaker 7: I know, I keep trying to tell her that once
Speaker 7: all that's said and done, like that divorce process isn't
Speaker 7: going to be forever, and once it's all done and
Speaker 7: your custody is all settled and everything it's going to be,
Speaker 7: she's going to be so much happier. But she just
Speaker 7: doesn't see it that way. She'll agree with me in
Speaker 7: the moment, and then of course it all goes out
Speaker 7: the window.
Speaker 2: This is a person who's under the influence of what
Speaker 2: is basically mind control, So you know, you do have
Speaker 2: to kind of take that into consideration that like her
Speaker 2: mind is being controlled by another person. But I do
Speaker 2: think it's worth going back to Chelsea's idea of like
Speaker 2: having your whole family sit down with her and be like,
Speaker 2: we want to help you in any way possible. Here
Speaker 2: is a potential plan. We love you, this isn't okay
Speaker 2: that you're being treated like this, and tell her what
Speaker 2: the plan is and will be here if it's not now.
Speaker 2: If it's you know, we're here to may no plan
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: We're here to make a plan if she needs to
Speaker 1: leave the house, and because he's obviously not going to
Speaker 1: probably listen to her to get move out. But if
Speaker 1: she needs to leave the house, she can go in
Speaker 1: the interim, stay with your brother while she gets on
Speaker 1: her feet, gets the divorce proceedings going, she will get
Speaker 1: custody of her children most likely, and then she can
Speaker 1: figure out what she's going to do for work, or
Speaker 1: if she's gonna work, or what that dynamic is going
Speaker 1: to be. But you have to be indefatigable with your
Speaker 1: efforts with her. You have to, yeah, and you have
Speaker 1: to impress it upon your family and your brother, so
Speaker 1: maybe they care a little bit more about how dangerous
Speaker 1: the situation is. Yeah, I agree, because no one in
Speaker 1: your family, including your brothers. I know men don't love
Speaker 1: to get involved in this kind of stuff, but they
Speaker 1: are never going to be able to forgive themselves if
Speaker 1: something happens to her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry that we can't be of more help,
Speaker 1: but like please.
Speaker 3: Just no, no, no, it's great.
Speaker 7: I mean, I appreciate the help that you have given
Speaker 7: me because I've been kind of juggling this, like do
Speaker 7: I just kind of bite my tongue and let it
Speaker 7: write itself out and she'll finally realize, Like maybe the
Speaker 7: next time she'll finally realize and actually leave him because
Speaker 7: she's been so close. But at this point, it just
Speaker 7: doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So I'm like,
Speaker 7: I either need to go all in and say something
Speaker 7: like you said, or I just need to kind of
Speaker 7: fall back and let it come in between us and
Speaker 7: maybe she'll realize on her own. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 7: think that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: And you know, I wonder also, is she in therapy
Speaker 2: by herself?
Speaker 7: No, you're willing to, and they have they have talked
Speaker 7: about it and not have him, don't go with him,
Speaker 7: just her Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's some self esteem and self worth and an outside
Speaker 1: person being like, I am brand new to this situation
Speaker 1: and it's really bad and you need to get away
Speaker 1: from it.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Okay, I'll talk to her about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 2: What you're going through is really really hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 7: I mean juggling like all my life stresses and everything
Speaker 7: I'm going through and then help her with hers too,
Speaker 7: And obviously that's way more serious than anything I'm going through,
Speaker 7: but it's it's just hard to be there and just
Speaker 7: watch her continually do it.
Speaker 3: It's exhausting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that you're dealing
Speaker 1: with this. But keep us posted if there's any way
Speaker 1: we can help in any way, you know, let us
Speaker 1: know how it goes. And please just do not give
Speaker 1: up on your sister.
Speaker 3: Okay, I won't.
Speaker 1: Okay, Senny, that's love, honey.
Speaker 2: Thanks Brittanyekay, thank you guys so much.
Speaker 3: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: Bye O.
Speaker 2: That one got me.
Speaker 1: That is very upsetting.
Speaker 2: It's really tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: When I was in an abusive relationship in college, it
Speaker 2: took every single one of my friends from college who
Speaker 2: knew this person, well, every single one of my girlfriends
Speaker 2: from high school who didn't know him well but had
Speaker 2: met him. Everyone in my family separately, all of them
Speaker 2: saying he's not good for you. This is not a
Speaker 2: good situation, this guy's no good. And it wasn't until
Speaker 2: I had this realization of I think I love this person,
Speaker 2: and if every single person in my life who loves
Speaker 2: me is saying this isn't good for me, then maybe
Speaker 2: I need to take a leap of faith and get
Speaker 2: away from this.
Speaker 1: It's not even a leap of faith, though, you know.
Speaker 1: I know it feels that way when you're subjected to
Speaker 1: that kind of like a controlling behavior. But you have
Speaker 1: to listen to the people in your life that love you.
Speaker 1: You have to listen to them when they're saying, hey,
Speaker 1: red flag, red flag. I wish my family would say
Speaker 1: stuff more often. They don't. They're like, who could you
Speaker 1: imagine giving you advice? You would never listen to us.
Speaker 1: I'm like, actually I would. If you're concerned about my
Speaker 1: well being, I want to know about it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: might blow you off, but especially with regard to of
Speaker 1: like a romantic love interest, I would absolutely listen to
Speaker 1: my family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do think You're right, like being indefatigable,
Speaker 2: being persistent with love and support, but also saying like
Speaker 2: there's something better for you is you know, maybe you
Speaker 2: wouldn't listen the first time, but you might listen the
Speaker 2: second time or the third time. You know, people do
Speaker 2: warm up to.
Speaker 3: Ideas, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk to Rachel. Rachel's thirty two, and she says,
Speaker 2: Dear Chelsea, I'm having a hard time getting over a
Speaker 2: good friend that recently ghosted me. I know she decided
Speaker 2: to start back up an affair with a married man
Speaker 2: and stop talking to all of her close friends. Now
Speaker 2: it seems that she's resumed her normal life and she's
Speaker 2: let everyone back in except for me. I was one
Speaker 2: of the few people she spoke to about the affair before,
Speaker 2: and for a very long time, she held the shame
Speaker 2: of this affair by herself without telling a soul. My
Speaker 2: suspicion is that she's let all of her friends back
Speaker 2: in that didn't really know about the situation or won't
Speaker 2: hold her accountable. She knows that what she's doing is wrong,
Speaker 2: but she doesn't want to face the difficulty of ending
Speaker 2: the affair for good. My question is related to the
Speaker 2: anger that I'm holding on to. It's been about five
Speaker 2: months and she's completely ghosted, and at this point, I
Speaker 2: don't think our friendship is salvagable, nor do I want
Speaker 2: to salvage a friendship with someone that acts like this.
Speaker 2: But I can't help but feeling really angry that she's
Speaker 2: resuming her other friendships and quote getting away with her behavior.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm being punished for being the type
Speaker 2: of friend to hold people accountable. Do you have any
Speaker 2: advice for how I can let this go and try
Speaker 2: to not hold on to so much anger. We have
Speaker 2: mutual friends and it's possible I'll have to cross paths
Speaker 2: with her in the future, and I don't really want
Speaker 2: to hold on to any more bad energy from the situation.
Speaker 1: Rachel Hi, Rachel Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2: So we just heard about your friends. It's been about
Speaker 2: five months, right since you guys have talked, or has
Speaker 2: been a little longer.
Speaker 4: Now, yeah, almost six months.
Speaker 1: I can relate to the anger that you're holding on to,
Speaker 1: and I think the first step A is you acknowledging
Speaker 1: that you are angry and that you want to let
Speaker 1: go of it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You don't want that running you, and you don't also
Speaker 1: want your friend her choices, like you saying how you
Speaker 1: feel or having judgment towards her about it. You know,
Speaker 1: you could deal with that in one of two ways.
Speaker 1: You can be like, oh, it's not my place to judge,
Speaker 1: or you can have very strong opinions. I also have
Speaker 1: very strong opinions. I also share my very strong opinions
Speaker 1: with my friends all the time, and many times it
Speaker 1: ends a friendship. Yeah, but it is more important for
Speaker 1: me to be truthful and to be direct because we
Speaker 1: live in a universe where there is a dearth of
Speaker 1: directness and honesty. And so I think you did the
Speaker 1: right thing by being true to yourself. You're not there
Speaker 1: for her, you know what I mean In this instance,
Speaker 1: you're there for yourself to say, Hey, this is icky.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see you like this. If this
Speaker 1: is her reaction to that, there's nothing to be angry about,
Speaker 1: then you just have a clearer picture of what the
Speaker 1: situation was to begin with. So any of the anger
Speaker 1: is like you feeling rejected or you feeling devalue or
Speaker 1: not valued enough, that's your stuff. Yeah, she's not giving
Speaker 1: you any reason to be angry. She's not actively pursuing you,
Speaker 1: engaging you gaslighting you. You're just mad, and either you
Speaker 1: have to stand by your behavior and understand that that
Speaker 1: sometimes will be the result when you are very honest
Speaker 1: with people and be okay with that, or don't share
Speaker 1: your honesty.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I kind of suspected also that my anger. Anger is
Speaker 8: a little bit easier of an emotion to feel sometimes,
Speaker 8: Like I think I'm choosing to feel angry when it's
Speaker 8: just hard to face how sad of.
Speaker 4: A situation is.
Speaker 8: I mean, it's incredibly sad to lose a good friend,
Speaker 8: So I suspect that that's kind of part of it too.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, anger is just like a cover
Speaker 1: for sadness or her. You know, that's exactly what it is,
Speaker 1: and you're right to believe that. But I also you know,
Speaker 1: there's a time, you know, you're morning of friendship. It's
Speaker 1: been five months and might be another five months, but
Speaker 1: there's the anger isn't going to serve you. You have
Speaker 1: to start thinking about her in a loving, kindful way.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: We talk about this loving kindness meditation that I've done.
Speaker 1: I've done for people with friendships that have ended because
Speaker 1: I don't want to have any ill will towards them
Speaker 1: and I don't want that in my body. So it's
Speaker 1: this thing. I don't know if you do you meditate
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 8: I don't, but that sounds interesting.
Speaker 1: This is a good meditation for you to start with,
Speaker 1: because this is an active meditation. You sit and you
Speaker 1: think about somebody that's just random in the world, and
Speaker 1: you send them It's like, I wish you a life
Speaker 1: of ease, I wish you a life of safety, I
Speaker 1: wish you a life of love, and you send them love.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You don't have to mean it, but you just practice it.
Speaker 1: And then you think about someone who's really close to you,
Speaker 1: like maybe your mother or a sibling or somebody you
Speaker 1: really love. And then you think about a neutral person,
Speaker 1: someone that you have no connection with, you know, like
Speaker 1: somebody at work that you don't care what happens to
Speaker 1: them either way. And you practice this and it's I
Speaker 1: send you ease, I send you love, I send you
Speaker 1: and I send you. May you have a life of ease,
Speaker 1: May you have a life of joy, May you have
Speaker 1: a life of safety. You send all of these messages
Speaker 1: right to all the people, and then you go to
Speaker 1: the difficult people, and this person is that difficult person,
Speaker 1: and you hit that person, and if you do this
Speaker 1: every single day, your anger will lift. Because it's a practice.
Speaker 1: And it sounds like you're stuck, and that's very common
Speaker 1: we all are, and the only way to get yourself
Speaker 1: unstuck is to take the steps to do that. So
Speaker 1: while this sounds maybe weird or you've never done anything
Speaker 1: like this, please don't knock it until you try it,
Speaker 1: because you'd be amazed that just sending healing energy out
Speaker 1: into the world will shift your energy and will diminish
Speaker 1: your anger.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that sounds like something that would really help. I mean,
Speaker 8: I also think I'm frustrated because I don't feel like
Speaker 8: I'm an angry person, so this is it. I've kind
Speaker 8: of been stuck on it, but I think that that
Speaker 8: could really help.
Speaker 1: It could, And sometimes we just have to shake ourselves
Speaker 1: up out of a rut. And that's what you're in.
Speaker 1: You're hurt and you're disappointed, and that's totally normal, and
Speaker 1: guess what, that's part of life. It's going to happen again,
Speaker 1: probably at some point, and you can't just bemoan the
Speaker 1: situation over and over again, because then it starts to
Speaker 1: eat away at you and then you're not giving out
Speaker 1: your best vibes either, and you want to be available
Speaker 1: for the people in your life that you are having
Speaker 1: friendships with and relationships that are meaningful. And unfortunately this
Speaker 1: happened with her, but you don't know what the future holds.
Speaker 1: She could be back around in six months or two years.
Speaker 1: And you saying it's unsalvageable. Nothing's unsalvageable unless there's murder involved,
Speaker 1: you know, or rape. Like everything is salvageable. So that's
Speaker 1: a defense mechanism as well. It's just better to be
Speaker 1: at ease, like, Okay, she's living her life. It didn't
Speaker 1: work out, She's for some reason is holding you know,
Speaker 1: our friendship hostage or doesn't want to be friends with
Speaker 1: me anymore. That's something you have to accept and now
Speaker 1: you're going to move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you are on the right path.
Speaker 2: Like even recognizing sing that it's really hurt your feeling
Speaker 2: that this anger is covering up. I think that's really good. Yeah, Chelsea.
Speaker 2: Any advice for when you know, on the eventuality that
Speaker 2: she does run into this friend.
Speaker 1: I think again, you know, you go to every if
Speaker 1: you don't feel love towards someone, you have to like
Speaker 1: fear hate, sadness, all of it. The opposite is love.
Speaker 1: So if if you just look at her in a
Speaker 1: loving way, like this is a girl that's going through
Speaker 1: a really bad time having an affair with a married
Speaker 1: man that's breaking up getting back together, that that's not
Speaker 1: a good situation. So you have to kind of take
Speaker 1: pity on her and say, oh, wow, like that's sad
Speaker 1: that she has to live her life this way, not
Speaker 1: in a judgmental way, in a kind of there's nothing
Speaker 1: you can do about her life choices, right All you
Speaker 1: can do is make sure you're making good choices. And
Speaker 1: your good choices are going to include how to kind
Speaker 1: of get past this and try to actively move past
Speaker 1: this and just instead of just waiting for the feeling
Speaker 1: to pass, because that's so many times what we do.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh, it's important to have your feelings, and
Speaker 1: then it's important to actively move on from them so
Speaker 1: that you can move to the next thing. And you're
Speaker 1: just feeling like this right now. Also, you won't feel
Speaker 1: like this forever, I promise you. I've had breakups with
Speaker 1: friends that were really painful, really disappointing. I didn't think
Speaker 1: i'd ever get over them, and I'm sitting here today,
Speaker 1: and you know, and I'm probably the healthiest time in
Speaker 1: my entire life. So don't beat yourself up for any
Speaker 1: of the feelings that you're having, but just always move
Speaker 1: towards love and grace and kindness. And if she does
Speaker 1: resurface in six months and she's not in that relationship anymore,
Speaker 1: then you can receive her with love and grace.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really helpful.
Speaker 1: And even if she is in that relationship and she resurfaces,
Speaker 1: you can still receive her with love and grace, except
Speaker 1: you have boundaries. You're not going to be in that
Speaker 1: relationship with her because it's too hard for you to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I think you can see her, you can
Speaker 2: say hi to her, you can give her a hug
Speaker 2: at whatever this event is that you might run into her,
Speaker 2: But then you know, you just dripped off and you
Speaker 2: talk to other people. You know, you don't have to
Speaker 2: have to get into anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't have to get anything. I think it's
Speaker 1: always good to just be your best self so that
Speaker 1: the next time that person sees you, they see, oh wow,
Speaker 1: I miss that person, or she's doing great, she's not
Speaker 1: hung up in my situation, she's you know, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's good to set an example and
Speaker 1: it elevates you. Also inside, you feel better about yourself
Speaker 1: when you can handle things with a plum and grace
Speaker 1: instead of reactive or you know, icing somebody out and
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. I've had a lot of experience
Speaker 1: with all of those things. So you're young and growing
Speaker 1: and smart, so I think you'll be You'll be just fine,
Speaker 1: and hopefully she will be too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 8: I mean, I am kind of like centering myself in
Speaker 8: my reaction to it, like ultimately, she's still maybe in
Speaker 8: the midst of this very painful situation. So just trying
Speaker 8: to remember that as well, and I forget that when
Speaker 8: I get angry about it, because it's really like my
Speaker 8: reaction to it.
Speaker 1: It is it is because you could have no reaction
Speaker 1: to it. And also another thing is don't bound about her.
Speaker 1: Don't talk about her at all, not to the friends
Speaker 1: that have, you know, reconvened with her, Like, don't talk
Speaker 1: shit about her. That's negative energy as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, all right, Rachel.
Speaker 2: Was that helpful?
Speaker 5: Yes, very helpful.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Okay, honey, you'll be fine. Just start that meditation though,
Speaker 1: do it every morning.
Speaker 8: Okay, I'm definitely going to That sounds great.
Speaker 1: I wish you a life of ease and then fill
Speaker 1: it in with joy, safety and love. Thank you, okayans.
Speaker 2: Rachel Right, Oh, she's a sweetie. Yeah, let's take a
Speaker 2: quick break and we will be right back to finish up.
Speaker 1: And we're back.
Speaker 4: We're back.
Speaker 1: Do you see how many different variations I'm trying.
Speaker 2: It's so many, Chelsea. Our last email comes from Melanie.
Speaker 2: She says, I'm a thirty year old American woman from Colorado,
Speaker 2: originally American woman. I recently moved to New Zealand for
Speaker 2: a year long research fellowship. I was born to be
Speaker 2: an ex pat and I've lived in Europe a couple
Speaker 2: of times already. Though I've only been here in New
Speaker 2: Zealand a couple of months. I am very happy here
Speaker 2: and feel in my outdoorsy heart I could stay for
Speaker 2: a long time. I booked a room in an Airbnb
Speaker 2: for the first month in hopes that it could turn
Speaker 2: into a longer term solution if all was going well.
Speaker 2: My room is one of three in the owner's home,
Speaker 2: and it turned out to be just perfect good price
Speaker 2: for my very tight budget. Walking distance to work, and
Speaker 2: just really lovely all around. The host is a kind
Speaker 2: kiwi man, probably in his late forties, so twenty ish
Speaker 2: year's difference. We instantly clicked in what I initially thought
Speaker 2: was a brother sister type of way. He's physically not
Speaker 2: who I'm typically attracted to, and while I've always thought
Speaker 2: I'd be better off with an older guy, he initially
Speaker 2: seemed a little too far out of my age range,
Speaker 2: and being my landlord, of course, a romantic connection just
Speaker 2: wasn't in the realm of possibility for me. Boy did
Speaker 2: that change. We spent a lot of time together. I
Speaker 2: found myself thinking about him a lot, and I recently
Speaker 2: found that I'm very attracted to him. The forbidden nature
Speaker 2: probably has something to do with it, but I also
Speaker 2: think there might be more here. He seems to understand
Speaker 2: me in a way I haven't experienced with most guys
Speaker 2: closer to my age. If he also feels a romantic connection,
Speaker 2: it's not obvious. He's been good about keeping it professional. However,
Speaker 2: he did invite me on an upcoming trip to Asia.
Speaker 2: Initially it was more of a i'll fit you in
Speaker 2: my suitcase joking kind of way, but then it became
Speaker 2: a real request, and now I've got a ticket to
Speaker 2: join him later this year. Worth noting is that the
Speaker 2: accommodation situation has yet to be discussed. My friends say
Speaker 2: that if he's into me, he's unlikely to make a
Speaker 2: move given the power dynamics, and I agree. The question
Speaker 2: is do I make a move and how or do
Speaker 2: I continue to let it play out and hope it
Speaker 2: evolves organically. Something about this just seems right, Melanie, make
Speaker 2: a move.
Speaker 1: Mane, make a move. But this is the only life
Speaker 1: you get unless you believe in reincarnation. But even then
Speaker 1: you don't even know what the fuck's going on.
Speaker 2: So yeah, according.
Speaker 1: To us as we speak, this is the only life
Speaker 1: you've got. Yeah, make a move. What do you think
Speaker 1: to lose?
Speaker 4: Do you?
Speaker 2: How do you do that?
Speaker 3: Do you just kiss him?
Speaker 2: Do you talk to him about it?
Speaker 1: I did you send like a flirty text or you
Speaker 1: can say it in person? But like you definitely should
Speaker 1: do it before Asia so you can find out what
Speaker 1: that trip's going to be and how can that trip
Speaker 1: Because also if he's not into you, which I doubt
Speaker 1: he isn't, he sounds like he is. Usually when there's
Speaker 1: chemistry it's reciprocated. If a woman feels it anyway, I
Speaker 1: should say not this doesn't apply to straight men, but
Speaker 1: it's usually reciprocated. Like you know, the chemistry is called
Speaker 1: chemistry because it's going back and forth between two people
Speaker 1: or electricity or however you want to describe it. But
Speaker 1: you should go for it. You could send him a
Speaker 1: flirty text and be like, hey, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: about you and I realized I've been thinking about you
Speaker 1: a lot. M h you. You know, like it can
Speaker 1: be as innocent as that, or you can be flirty
Speaker 1: and more sexual about it or whatever. But you or
Speaker 1: you can lay it out and go, hey, as you
Speaker 1: may know, we have a cute little relationship going. I
Speaker 1: know that I'm the renter and you're the rentee, or
Speaker 1: he's the renter, she's the rent.
Speaker 2: The landlord like that she's a landlord.
Speaker 1: I used to do it one of my landlords. And
Speaker 1: I know that it might not be appropriate for you
Speaker 1: to ever make a move on me, so I'm just
Speaker 1: putting it out there. I'm open to a move being
Speaker 1: made on me.
Speaker 2: Uh huh. I love that.
Speaker 1: That's cute.
Speaker 2: I honestly, I think it's more because he's older than
Speaker 2: her rather than the landlord thing. The power dynamic language
Speaker 2: kind of makes me talk.
Speaker 1: About the power dynamic because he's the landlord. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: not a power dynamic. First of all, you.
Speaker 2: Know, he probably feels like a little bit of like,
Speaker 2: oh she's too young for me sort of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a nice guy. That's probably exactly what.
Speaker 1: But I guess that is. You know, I shouldn't say
Speaker 1: it's not a power dynamic, because it is for many people,
Speaker 1: you know, a power dynamic, the landlord thing, the landlord thing,
Speaker 1: because that's somebody who's like you're paying rent to.
Speaker 2: But he's an ARABNB host, all right.
Speaker 1: I just think power dynamic in age. I think that's
Speaker 1: true unless you're an employer. I mean, unless you have
Speaker 1: a hold over on one. That's why. Okay, whatever, we
Speaker 1: can parse what a power dynamic is at another time.
Speaker 1: But anyway, make your move, sister, Yes, go after it.
Speaker 1: And that's today's episode. Dear Yelseye. Okay, guys, we have
Speaker 1: added more shows to my Little Big Bitch Tour because
Speaker 1: I'm coming all over. We added a second show at
Speaker 1: the Pantagius in Los Angeles, So that's October twelfth and
Speaker 1: Friday the thirteenth. We added a second show in Boston
Speaker 1: at the Wayne Center. September twenty ninth and thirtieth is
Speaker 1: two shows in New York. I also have a show
Speaker 1: in East Hampton, New York August twenty six. We added
Speaker 1: a second show in Portland, So Thursday November tewod Friday
Speaker 1: November third, and Portland November fourth and fifth in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: two shows there. We added a second show in Seattle
Speaker 1: November tenth and eleventh. Two shows Boston are November sixteenth
Speaker 1: and seventeenth at the Bach Center at Wang Theater. And
Speaker 1: I'm also coming to Toronto and Montreal and Ottawa and
Speaker 1: so many other cities Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville. So I
Speaker 1: will see everybody at all of these shows. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Get your tickets at Chelseahandler dot com.
Speaker 2: Courtney Cope's input is general psychological information based on research
Speaker 2: and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational
Speaker 2: in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established
Speaker 2: clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Courtney's
Speaker 2: feedback is in response to a written question, and therefore
Speaker 2: there are likely unknown considerations given the limited context. Also,
Speaker 2: just because you might hear something on the show that
Speaker 2: sounds similar to what you're experiencing, beware of self diagnosis.
Speaker 2: Diagnosis is not required to find relief, and you'll want
Speaker 2: to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnoses
Speaker 2: if that's important to you. If you or your partner
Speaker 2: are in crisis and uncertain of whether you can maintain safety,
Speaker 2: reach out for support like crisis hotlines and local authorities
Speaker 2: have a safety plan that can be done with a
Speaker 2: therapist too. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us
Speaker 2: an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com
Speaker 2: and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea
Speaker 2: is edited and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine
Speaker 2: Law and be sure to check out our march at
Speaker 2: Chelseahandler dot com