Speaker 1: You're listening to the Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, welcome to the
Speaker 1: Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, our friend Tim Murtau
Speaker 1: is here. He was the Trump twenty twenty comms communications director.
Speaker 1: These days he's an executive vice president of comms for
Speaker 1: National Public Affairs, which is a political consulting firm, and
Speaker 1: he's got his own podcast. What is the podcast? Tim?
Speaker 2: Podcast is called the Line Drive Podcast, and you can
Speaker 2: find it wherever you get your podcasts. And it's a
Speaker 2: look at the dissection of the twenty twenty four race
Speaker 2: from some people who are inside the rooms when big
Speaker 2: decisions were happening on presidential campaigns, and we take a
Speaker 2: look at it and dissect it and tell you why
Speaker 2: candidates are doing what they're doing.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the chance to be able to plug that. Buck.
Speaker 3: Thanks the Line Drive Podcast.
Speaker 1: Of course. Now tell me how's this election going so far?
Speaker 1: You know you worked on twenty twenty for Trump. What
Speaker 1: are you seeing right now? And take it anywhere you want?
Speaker 1: Biden big picture? You know, what are you seeing? We're
Speaker 1: in the is the summer of twenty three, what's happening.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it would surprise anybody that my
Speaker 2: take is what everyone can see in the polls, that
Speaker 2: this is Donald Trump's nomination to lose, certainly, and he
Speaker 2: doesn't show any signs of loosening his grip on the nomination.
Speaker 2: And I think what is less talked about because that
Speaker 2: point's kind of obvious, I think, but what's less talked
Speaker 2: about is the fact that if you look at the
Speaker 2: publicly available evidence, the public polls that are out there,
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has been shown to be ahead in a
Speaker 2: matchup with Joe Biden in the general election in a
Speaker 2: couple of polls. Just in the last month, he's been
Speaker 2: ahead in several different national polls, beating Joe Biden. And
Speaker 2: that's important because in twenty sixteen, and especially in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: where I was I was now on the twenty sixteen campaign,
Speaker 2: but let's talk about twenty twenty. In twenty twenty, Donald
Speaker 2: Trump was shown to be beating Joe Biden nationally in
Speaker 2: a public poll exactly zero times. And in just the
Speaker 2: last month, Donald Trump has been shown to be ahead
Speaker 2: of Joe Biden in several different national polls, and that
Speaker 2: is significant. And to me, that tells me that Donald
Speaker 2: Trump not only is he in great shape, which is
Speaker 2: obvious in the Republican primaries, but he's in a better
Speaker 2: position today against his likely Democrat opponent in a general
Speaker 2: election than he ever was in twenty twenty or twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: Why is that, Well, I think it's a lot of things.
Speaker 2: The economy is really hurting Joe Biden. And you know,
Speaker 2: the White House will tell you, oh, everything is fantastic.
Speaker 2: The economy is coming back, and we've added all these jobs.
Speaker 2: And of course that's sleight of hand because those are
Speaker 2: jobs that are returning because of the opening up of
Speaker 2: the economy again after the pandemic has passed us. But
Speaker 2: then you have the I mean, scandal after scandal after scandal,
Speaker 2: and I think that the media, try as they might,
Speaker 2: has tried to protect Joe Biden from this. But Joe Biden,
Speaker 2: I think to the average voter and his approval numbers
Speaker 2: bear this out. He looks like a weak, ineffective old
Speaker 2: president who just isn't up to the job. And I think,
Speaker 2: now this Hunter Biden stuff, the Devin Archer testimony of
Speaker 2: the other day, is going to really really hurt Joe
Speaker 2: Biden because now they've got the media in position where
Speaker 2: you just can't ignore this anymore. They ignored the laptop
Speaker 2: and everything that was contained in it for a long
Speaker 2: long time, and they just can't do it anymore. These
Speaker 2: allegations and the facts that Devin Archer brought to the
Speaker 2: table the other day in his testimony, they're just they're
Speaker 2: so explosive that not even the New York Times or
Speaker 2: CNN can ignore it.
Speaker 1: So this is now where I have to ask you
Speaker 1: what happened in twenty twenty?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: You were on the campaign? Whatten? Now that we have
Speaker 1: all the fullness of time or whatever has passed and
Speaker 1: we have plenty of ability to look back and understand,
Speaker 1: because I think that one of the challenges some people
Speaker 1: might have on the conservative side, on the publican side
Speaker 1: of things is if they could cheat in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: why would it be different? Now? That's always the question
Speaker 1: that I wonder, you know, or if they could rigate,
Speaker 1: if they could pull that off, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: why should we believe it's any different?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: What do you say you were part of twenty twenty?
Speaker 1: Why is twenty twenty four going to be different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, if you look back at what was happening
Speaker 2: the lead up to twenty twenty, and it started in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. You know, the Democrats, led by Mark Elias,
Speaker 2: their lawyer, they were in court in states all across
Speaker 2: the country trying to loosen protections for safe campaigns and
Speaker 2: safe elections all over the place. And I do think
Speaker 2: that the Democrats had a far better operation to take
Speaker 2: advantage of laws in certain states where you're allowed to
Speaker 2: ballot harvest. And they certainly did a better job of
Speaker 2: turning out mail in ballots because they were much more
Speaker 2: widely used. And you know, it was frustrating to me.
Speaker 2: I honestly, I never saw enough evidence of actual fraud
Speaker 2: that would have made a difference. However, if you look
Speaker 2: at Pennsylvania for the first time, two and a half
Speaker 2: million people voted by mail in Pennsylvania, and its really
Speaker 2: hard for me to believe that every single one of
Speaker 2: those two and a half million votes that were cast
Speaker 2: by mail were actually cast by the people whose name
Speaker 2: was on the envelope. You know, do all two and
Speaker 2: a half million people know that they voted in that election?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And it's not something that we're ever going to be
Speaker 2: able to prove. So I think that Republicans have a
Speaker 2: better idea now of how to you have to actually
Speaker 2: operate under the laws, then do the voting as they're
Speaker 2: allowed by law. A lot of our folks, a lot
Speaker 2: of our voters, want to fight on principle, and that's fine.
Speaker 2: I understand that. And they don't like mail in voting.
Speaker 2: They don't like ballot harvesting because they are avenues for fraud.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 2: But where it is permissible by law, it is silly
Speaker 2: to fight with one hand tied behind your back, because
Speaker 2: you know the Democrats are going to do what's allowed
Speaker 2: by law, and they're going to exploit those laws, and
Speaker 2: so the Republicans have to play those same games now.
Speaker 2: Aside from those sorts of things, you know, I think
Speaker 2: it really was an unprecedented race with a global pandemic,
Speaker 2: I think, absent the pandemic before things actually had to
Speaker 2: get shut down. I feel like the President Trump was
Speaker 2: headed towards not an easy re election, but I think
Speaker 2: a re election that was going to come in. I
Speaker 2: think exactly as we had it planned. He was going
Speaker 2: to ride the economy. The economy was really unprecedented. It
Speaker 2: was so strong, it was going gangbusters, and there really
Speaker 2: weren't going to be a lot of things that Democrats
Speaker 2: could do to shoot down all of the accomplishments of
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. COVID presented a couple of things. It
Speaker 2: gave the media something that they could use to beat
Speaker 2: Donald Trump over the head with every single day and
Speaker 2: somehow say that a global pandemic that affected every single
Speaker 2: country on Earth was somehow the fault of one American leader,
Speaker 2: which is preposterous, but that's what they did, and it
Speaker 2: gave Joe Biden the easy excuse to never ever go
Speaker 2: out and campaign and keep probably the worst candidate in
Speaker 2: our lifetimes off the campaign trail and have a legitimate
Speaker 2: reason for that to be the case. So I think
Speaker 2: there were a lot of things that went on in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and despite all of it, the media loves
Speaker 2: to talk about how close twenty sixteen was. Twenty sixteen
Speaker 2: was a race that was decided by about eighty eight
Speaker 2: thousand votes in three states, eighty eight thousand votes spread
Speaker 2: across three states. Twenty twenty was even closer than that,
Speaker 2: less than forty four thousand votes spread across three other states,
Speaker 2: So it was about half again as twice as close
Speaker 2: as it was in twenty sixteen. But somehow the fact
Speaker 2: that the closeness of the twenty twenty race is not
Speaker 2: something that anybody discusses. But it was razor thin. It's
Speaker 2: going to be razor thin again. I think you're going
Speaker 2: to see another tight race that is decided by very
Speaker 2: small margins in a handful of different states across the country.
Speaker 2: It's going to be tight again.
Speaker 1: How formidable is the Democrat election apparatus that was able
Speaker 1: to with all the factors you identified and everything else?
Speaker 1: Push forward? I would say, wheel forward in some ways,
Speaker 1: Joe Biden into the White House? What do they do right?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: Where where should we learn from our enemies? So to speak?
Speaker 2: Well, they just they unabashedly crank out the votes. This
Speaker 2: is not you know, it's less of a messaging game now.
Speaker 2: And TV ads are still important and the message of
Speaker 2: the campaign is important, and the day to day fight
Speaker 2: is all very important, but it's less about persuading people
Speaker 2: these days as it is about just producing votes, and
Speaker 2: many times that means you know, actual the actual function
Speaker 2: of going around getting people to fill out their ballots,
Speaker 2: sign their names, and where it's permissible, even some places
Speaker 2: where it's not, what's called ballot harvesting, which is, say,
Speaker 2: for example, what Democrats love to do is you go
Speaker 2: into a nursing home and let's say there's three hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty residents of this nursing home. You get all
Speaker 2: of them to fill out their ballots, and then one
Speaker 2: person can carry all three hundred and fifty of those
Speaker 2: ballots and go put them in a drop box somewhere.
Speaker 2: I mean, if that is not the obvious opportunity for
Speaker 2: fraud in voting, then I don't know what a better
Speaker 2: example would possibly be. However, that is permissible under the
Speaker 2: law in many many states, and Democrats do a much
Speaker 2: better job, i'd say, vloiding the laws and doing what
Speaker 2: the law allows, and in many cases probably pushing the envelope.
Speaker 2: But where it's where they are much better and much
Speaker 2: more organized, and they don't have any opposition from within
Speaker 2: their own party to choosing those methods of voting. I
Speaker 2: think a lot of our people, as I said, on principle,
Speaker 2: and I think they're right that they don't want to
Speaker 2: do the things that are ripe for fraud. However, the
Speaker 2: other side's going to do it, and if you lay
Speaker 2: down your weapon while the other side still has their weapon,
Speaker 2: then you've disarmed yourself and you're at a distinct disadvantage.
Speaker 2: They're just better at it. They do it with no remorse,
Speaker 2: I think, I guess that's probably the best way to
Speaker 2: say it.
Speaker 1: So they're ruthless. The things I learned from Democrats is
Speaker 1: they're utterly ruthless in their pursuit of power, and they
Speaker 1: have no compunction about playing dirty. And maybe there's something
Speaker 1: something to be said for that. We'll come back in
Speaker 1: a second. Speaking of playing dirty, the indictments against Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: including the latest j six federal indictment. I want to
Speaker 1: talk to mister m We're ta here about that in
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Speaker 1: zero seven gold. Tim can Trump fight through all these indictments?
Speaker 1: Is that? Is that possible? What do you think happens here?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look there, it's two different questions. Right.
Speaker 2: There's the legal question, which is that he's actually facing
Speaker 2: criminal charges and he is in pretty significant legal jeopardy.
Speaker 2: That I am not a lawyer. I'm certainly not a
Speaker 2: criminal lawyer, not a lawyer of any kind. So I
Speaker 2: think the legal questions about what he's facing in the
Speaker 2: criminal justice system are our question for someone else. Politically, However,
Speaker 2: in the terms of the Republican primaries, here, I think
Speaker 2: it goes without saying really because everyone can see the
Speaker 2: evidence that all of these indictments actually help him politically
Speaker 2: in the Republican primary. So I mean, by now it's
Speaker 2: kind of background noise. And I think this next one,
Speaker 2: the January sixth indictment, is going to be I think
Speaker 2: even more apparently political, at least to the Republicans who
Speaker 2: are watching, because they're going to be indicting him based
Speaker 2: on the behavehavior of other people who are not him,
Speaker 2: And so I think a lot of people will see
Speaker 2: that as just as political as all the rest of them.
Speaker 2: But here's the situation. This is how you know that
Speaker 2: it is rebounding to Donald Trump's favor is that most
Speaker 2: of the Republicans who are in the field running for
Speaker 2: president who are not the ones who are just openly
Speaker 2: attacking him every single day, like Chris Christy or Asa
Speaker 2: Hutchinson everyone else, every time an indictment happens, or every
Speaker 2: time someone on the left or in the Biden administration
Speaker 2: attacks Donald Trump with the apparatus of the federal government.
Speaker 2: Every single time, most of them have to defend Donald
Speaker 2: Trump in some way. And it goes all the way
Speaker 2: up to vivek Ramaswami, who during one of the indictments,
Speaker 2: actually stood outside the courthouse where the grand jury was
Speaker 2: meeting and held a press conference and promised to pardon
Speaker 2: Donald Trump if he ever became president himself. Of vivek
Speaker 2: Ramaswami said that, And really the only way that you
Speaker 2: can tell that vivek Ramaswami is not endorsing Donald Trump
Speaker 2: is that he maintains that he's a candidate for president himself.
Speaker 2: And you know, there are others who attack the DOJ
Speaker 2: and they attack the politicization of the federal government, the
Speaker 2: weaponization of the federal government. They don't necessarily stick up
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump, but they attack the attackers. And so
Speaker 2: it's a very complicated political pretzel for the people who
Speaker 2: are running sort of with one foot in the Donald
Speaker 2: Trump lane. They don't want to attack Donald Trump because
Speaker 2: they need to be able to attract his supporters. And
Speaker 2: as you have seen over the course of the last
Speaker 2: number of years here in American politics, when Donald Trump
Speaker 2: is attacked, his supporters feel as though they themselves are
Speaker 2: being attacked as well. And obviously the political opponents and
Speaker 2: the Republican primaries know that, and they are treading very lightly.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that any of them can really
Speaker 2: figure out exactly how to handle these things when they
Speaker 2: keep happening. And this latest indictment will be another example
Speaker 2: of all that.
Speaker 1: What do you make of the theory that's out there
Speaker 1: that Democrats are throwing all these arts at Trump to
Speaker 1: make him the candidate for the Republicans so that he'll
Speaker 1: win the primary, but then he'll be weakened and lose
Speaker 1: the general.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, look, we dealt with.
Speaker 2: Some of that during the twenty twenty race before Joe
Speaker 2: Biden became the candidate. If we attacked Joe Biden one day,
Speaker 2: people said, oh my gosh, they're attacking Biden. They're trying
Speaker 2: to elevate Biden. Therefore they want Biden to be the candidate.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we attacked Pete Boodajete, you know, or Bernie Sanders,
Speaker 2: and so what was the answer for that. Sometimes you
Speaker 2: just you level attacks on people with the information that
Speaker 2: you have handy. I'm not sure maybe the Democrats that
Speaker 2: is their game plan that they want Donald Trump to
Speaker 2: be their opponent. But as I just said, we've seen
Speaker 2: now a series of national polls that have Joe Biden
Speaker 2: in front. I'm sorry, I have Donald Trump in front
Speaker 2: of Joe Biden in a national head to head general
Speaker 2: election matchup, which never occurred in any public polls in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. And I think maybe you're starting to see
Speaker 2: some of the Democrats changing their mind and thinking, maybe
Speaker 2: we're not too sure that we want Donald Trump. They've
Speaker 2: been they've been focusing a lot more on Ron De Santis.
Speaker 2: You have this big skirmish that Kamala Harris entered over
Speaker 2: these new educational standards in Florida, and Kamala Harris went
Speaker 2: at Ron De Santis, I mean, full bore. She could
Speaker 2: hardly attack him any harder. So, you know, I think
Speaker 2: it's they're showing signs that they're not exactly sure who
Speaker 2: they want to run against now, certainly using what people
Speaker 2: are calling lawfair warfare through the law against Donald Trump
Speaker 2: as a key indicator that I think that they're trying
Speaker 2: to make sure that if he is the Republican nominee,
Speaker 2: that he's as damaged as possible going into the general
Speaker 2: election and perhaps they still do want him as the opponent,
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure that the public evidence shows that
Speaker 2: it would be a slam dunk for Joe Biden or
Speaker 2: anybody else should Donald Trump be the nominee.
Speaker 1: I want to ask what it is or how you'd
Speaker 1: make the case for an independent voter, let's say, a
Speaker 1: swing voter, independent in some of these key states, why
Speaker 1: they would vote for Trump this time in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four if they didn't in twenty twenty. But hold on
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Speaker 2: Independent voters who aren't committed yet? First, let me preface
Speaker 2: this by saying National Public Affairs, which is the consulting
Speaker 2: firm where I work, we're not affiliated with any of
Speaker 2: the candidates. So I want to make that clear in
Speaker 2: case anybody from one of the other campaigns says, hey,
Speaker 2: that's not fair having that guy on. We're not being
Speaker 2: paid or working for any of those campaigns. But if
Speaker 2: I were going to try to message to independent voters
Speaker 2: to get them to vote for Trump in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four if they did not support him in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: I would first I would again remind them that twenty
Speaker 2: twenty was sort of a unicorn.
Speaker 3: Election year because of because it was.
Speaker 2: Really under the most extreme circumstances and unprecedented circumstances that
Speaker 2: anyone has ever seen an election occur in. But I
Speaker 2: would remember, or I would remind them of what life
Speaker 2: in the United States was like prior to the pandemic
Speaker 2: coming one of the best economies ever recorded for this country,
Speaker 2: and that means one of the best economies in world history.
Speaker 2: And that was all due to the Trump tax cuts
Speaker 2: getting government largely out of the way. I think one
Speaker 2: of the un heralded things in the Trump administration was
Speaker 2: the reduction in government red tape and the reducing of
Speaker 2: federal regulations, getting government and the EPA in particular, out
Speaker 2: of the way. We were energy independent. We were producing
Speaker 2: more energy here at home than we were having to import,
Speaker 2: and we were actually becoming a net energy exporter for
Speaker 2: the first time I think about five decades. And that
Speaker 2: was all due to the Trump policies the border, the
Speaker 2: cracking down on illegal immigration.
Speaker 3: I think the.
Speaker 2: Effects of that were obvious and you can see that
Speaker 2: Joe Biden and the Democrats have completely reversed that you
Speaker 2: didn't have illegal immigrants coming to the border wearing Donald
Speaker 2: Trump T shirts the way that they come to the
Speaker 2: border wearing Joe Biden T shirts and telling reporters we
Speaker 2: came here because Joe Biden said he would let us in.
Speaker 2: That you have to remind people of all of the
Speaker 2: tremendous things that the Trump administration did. It all gets
Speaker 2: all caught up in the hoopla, and people remember the pandemic,
Speaker 2: and people talk about the nasty tweets and now we
Speaker 2: have and that's the reason why they're doing all these
Speaker 2: indictments and all the law fair against President Trump. But
Speaker 2: I think it's incumbent upon the campaign to remind folks
Speaker 2: this is how it was, and these are the policies
Speaker 2: that you liked, because most Americans did like those policies,
Speaker 2: and you have to remind them of them.
Speaker 1: Tim Merch to everybody. Tim the Line Drive podcast right.
Speaker 2: Line Drive podcast available wherever you get your podcasts, and
Speaker 2: we take a look at It's me Sonny joy Nelson
Speaker 2: from the campaign and Hogan Gidley, formerly of the White
Speaker 2: House and of the campaign, and we talk about the
Speaker 2: news of the day, and we dissect it from a
Speaker 2: perspective of people who were in the room when all
Speaker 2: those big decisions happen.
Speaker 1: You know, Sonny Joy, you know, you got to ask her.
Speaker 1: Who encouraged her to move to DC and start working
Speaker 1: in politics?
Speaker 3: Is that you? You take her?
Speaker 1: I met her at Sea pack. She's a friend of
Speaker 1: a friend of mine and I just just in casual conversation.
Speaker 1: It sort of came up. She was looking to do
Speaker 1: some stuff, and I said, you know, move to DC,
Speaker 1: you'd be great, you know, go for it. I introduced
Speaker 1: her to uh Lilah Rose of Live Action. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think, you know. Yeah, and now Sonny Joy's a
Speaker 1: big deal. Now she's hosting a great podcast. It makes
Speaker 1: me so happy to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I know, I'm very proud of Sonny. She's
Speaker 2: she was fantastic. As a matter of fact, she she
Speaker 2: was my first assistant on the campaign and I picked
Speaker 2: her resume out of the lineup because her name was
Speaker 2: Sonny and I had just left the Trump administration and
Speaker 2: I was working for Sonny Perdue, who was the Secretary
Speaker 2: of Agriculture, And so you know, when you're looking at resumes,
Speaker 2: of a bunch of people who were like twenty two,
Speaker 2: twenty three years old. They're all the same. Basically, it's
Speaker 2: her first job and her name was Sonny, so I
Speaker 2: put her aside and said, I'll call this one just
Speaker 2: because of her.
Speaker 1: Name, and it is very proud. I'm glad. I'm glad
Speaker 1: she's been saving the country from the Communists, as I
Speaker 1: knew she would.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize you could. You could also take credit.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Good to hear. Anyway, great to see you, Tim, Thanks
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 3: Yep, thanks Buck