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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to eighty seven, episode.

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Speaker 2: Four of the Warehouse.

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Speaker 1: This is still the production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 3: I didn't catch any of that. I tried to do

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Speaker 3: the full Dean scream lead up and then we're watch

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Speaker 3: to take back to the White House.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna watch it.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna watch this take by the Warehouse. Yeah, Dean

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Speaker 1: just like cranked up on cocaine, had to cram it

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Speaker 1: in man, the whole the whole book.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is a podcast, Miles. Did you did you

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Speaker 3: know this? Do you hear about this?

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Speaker 1: You see? This is the podcast where we take it

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Speaker 1: deep to have into America share consciousness. Oh, take a

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Speaker 1: deep to have into American share consciousness and stuff.

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Speaker 3: I like that.

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Speaker 1: I sound more and more like a carnival.

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Speaker 3: Or a auctioneer.

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Speaker 1: Auctioneer. Thank you, We finish each other's sandwich and which Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Thursday Day, May eighteenth, twenty twenty three, which of course

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Speaker 1: means eighteenth National Cheese Soup Lay Day, National No Dirty

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Speaker 1: Dishes Day, Also International International Museum Day, National HIV Vaccine

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Speaker 1: Awareness Day, National Visit Your Relatives Day, Awareness Day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, raising awareness that there is one or just the

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Speaker 3: who work together to find. Oh okay, got a sate

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Speaker 3: like in vaccine. Yes, you know, it's all about research.

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Speaker 3: It's all about research, research, all right.

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Speaker 1: Well, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA. We're going down

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Speaker 1: down in the second playing rounds, and buddy, we're going

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Speaker 1: down sadly.

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Speaker 3: That is courtesy of make Curi.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, on the Goody Court make Curory, who said

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about sports to take it further,

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Speaker 1: but Jack was about his sad NBA made.

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Speaker 3: Me think of sugar. We're going down his sad NBA.

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Speaker 1: Is my favorite description talking about his sad NBA.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm over it or you know, it's one of those

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Speaker 1: breakups that we're just we've tried too many times and

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Speaker 1: just moving along. And I'm thrilled to be joined as

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Speaker 1: always by my co host mister Miles Gram.

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Speaker 4: Miles break a.

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Speaker 3: Fresh out of the de fryer. They're reaching temps that

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Speaker 3: no one's seen, earning no fresh out the d fryer around,

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Speaker 3: straight to the skin of your pre teen Shout out

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Speaker 3: to Rayzac on the discord, because yeah, we're talking about

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Speaker 3: those McDonald's nuggies burning that child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Four four is uh I guess, definitely preteen.

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Speaker 3: They're pre four years. You got a rhyme with no

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Speaker 3: one seen, you know when you say prech attendee, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I'm not here to workshop, but I like it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just refer to my kids as preteens. Now me too,

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Speaker 3: my baby. Have you got a kid?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Preteen?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Really three and a half months? You go, hey,

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Speaker 1: it's technically true. Why you want to know so much

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Speaker 1: about my kid?

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Speaker 3: Huh? This? Who's this guy? What are you the cops?

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Speaker 3: What are you a fucking cop? What are you asking

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Speaker 3: about my kid? What is real? Age is? Don't worries

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Speaker 3: a preteen? Move on?

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Speaker 1: Uh, miles. We're a thrilled to be joined by an

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Speaker 1: award winning writer, investigative journalist, podcaster, so you know from

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Speaker 1: her Peabody nominated work on This Land, her investigative climate

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Speaker 1: podcast Drilled. Please welcome back to the show on a

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Speaker 1: four year cycle, Amy Western.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that intro.

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Speaker 1: But before we started recording, we were talking about you

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Speaker 1: were last on May twenty second, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Crazy Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: Fact you're like the Olympics and presidential elections, just everything

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Speaker 1: the world cup drop some Westervelt on rs exactly what's that?

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Speaker 3: What's okay? Catch us up in the last four years since?

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Speaker 3: Are good? Right things?

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Speaker 2: What's what's happened lately? Yeah? Oh my god, well, I

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Speaker 2: I guess the big new thing is that I live

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Speaker 2: in Costa Rica.

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Speaker 3: Now you what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Huanacosta, Okay, yeah, on the Pacific coast. It's nice.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I actually got married there.

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Speaker 4: You did?

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Speaker 2: Where in hako Oh is really nice?

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah because my aunt. My aunt

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Speaker 3: is Costa Rican. So I've been going there since I

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Speaker 3: was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got it. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: but she's from me, She's from the Atlantic, you know

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Speaker 3: where the black people are at.

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Speaker 2: I still haven't been to Limon yet. I really want

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Speaker 2: to go.

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Speaker 3: Oh it's dope. It's dope.

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Speaker 2: It's so amazing and the history is so interesting and like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just yeah, I want to go.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, living there, do you feel like you are

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Speaker 1: sixty percent less stressed out? That's yeah, Like that's how

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Speaker 1: I feel every time I leave in America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I work on all the same stuff. I'm

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Speaker 2: still immersed in all of the like crazy politics and

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Speaker 2: climate stuff and all of it, but it's like the

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Speaker 2: context really helps.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, especially in a country too that is like

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Speaker 3: trying to do right by their own and like part

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Speaker 3: patch of Earth, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like my kids are in school here and they had,

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Speaker 2: like they had the day off a few months ago

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Speaker 2: for the day that they celebrate getting rid of their

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Speaker 2: military so they'd have money to pay for like health

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Speaker 2: care and education. What well, I love this place.

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Speaker 1: Never mind, I'm not I'm no longer on board.

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Speaker 3: No, they'll send a doctor to you if you like

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Speaker 3: live in a remote place to be like, hey, you're

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Speaker 3: doing all right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Where they come into my house to get my guns smiles,

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Speaker 1: Come on.

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Speaker 3: That ship, Jack.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that sounds nice. That sounds really nice. Like I

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Speaker 1: dream of leaving the US, and then I like part

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Speaker 1: of me is like yeah, but then you go somewhere

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Speaker 1: and like wherever you go, there you are, and I'd

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Speaker 1: be just distressed anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: But you can't run away from your problems Jack.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I did.

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Speaker 1: But like I lived in Ireland for like a few

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Speaker 1: months when I was in college, and like I just

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Speaker 1: remember getting back and just like the ambient stress level

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Speaker 1: of everybody in line at the airport. Yeah, just like

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Speaker 1: you can just like sense this, yes, silent, invisible, just

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Speaker 1: like anger and energy and yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: I know. Like the longer I go without going back

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Speaker 2: to the like when I when I have been here

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Speaker 2: for like you know, five or six months without going

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Speaker 2: back to the US, and I go back, it's really noticeable.

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Speaker 2: It's really like, oh my god, why is everyone such

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Speaker 2: an asshole to each other?

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Speaker 3: Yes, each other. I think it's just a reflection like

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Speaker 3: when you're in a place where the government is actively

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Speaker 3: telling you, like we don't give a fuck about you

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Speaker 3: or what happens to you. Everyone's just like fuck versus.

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Speaker 3: If there's just some semblance of like you know, community

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Speaker 3: or responsibility towards each other, that's right. Just you're laid

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Speaker 3: back a couple of clicks, it might not be as

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Speaker 3: lit like with the consumer goods as maybe the US. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing is you cannot like I went

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Speaker 2: to Okay, So last year I was in Guyana reporting

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Speaker 2: a story and I hung out with this guy who's

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Speaker 2: a like chef. He you know, used to live in

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Speaker 2: New York for years and years and was from Guyana.

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Speaker 2: Moved back home and he and I were talking about

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Speaker 2: the US, and he's like, do you miss it? Like

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Speaker 2: you've been gone for a while, now, do you miss

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Speaker 2: anything about the US? And I was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: the only thing I miss sometimes is the way that

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Speaker 2: America like makes it extremely easy to participate in capitalists

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Speaker 2: right right, Like occasionally, yes, like that convenience is missed,

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Speaker 2: but otherwise not really. I mean it's it's but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think it's you know, everybody is is kind of

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Speaker 2: having put in the position of having to fight for scraps,

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Speaker 2: and it leads to this really competitive, you know, individualistic. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is like not healthy for any of us.

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Speaker 1: Now you got to hustle to keep your health care,

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Speaker 1: that's right. That does something to your central nervous system

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Speaker 1: as a human being.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, yeah. The retail therapy is real.

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Speaker 1: Like there's that scene in White Noise, Like there's a

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Speaker 1: scene of White Noise where like the family just goes

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Speaker 1: to the grocery store to like feel whole again, look

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Speaker 1: at the colors and like let them wash over them.

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Speaker 1: And that is real to me, Like I I love

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Speaker 1: a trip to the grocery store and just coast go

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Speaker 1: to Maso Menos and get there you know exactly.

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Speaker 2: Mega super whatever it is, get it.

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Speaker 3: They got it. They got it.

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Speaker 2: But like you can get really good food stuff here

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Speaker 2: and I don't know whatever, and yeah, you just after

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Speaker 2: a while, even with my kids like I have my

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Speaker 2: kids are seven and ten, also preteens.

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Speaker 3: And actual preteens. Yeah, I think my three and a

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Speaker 3: half month year old three and a half month year

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Speaker 3: old as well a half month year old. Also.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear how judgy she was when she said

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Speaker 1: actual our preteens?

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Speaker 3: Our Wow, yeah, you're six and four preteens.

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Speaker 2: But you were saying the first month or something, they

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Speaker 2: were like, can't we just order it on Amazon? And

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Speaker 2: I have delivered tomorrow And I'm like, yeah, not a

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Speaker 2: thing here, guys. Sorry, you're used to it. But now

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Speaker 2: it's like they don't. It doesn't come up.

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Speaker 1: How old were they when you guys moved?

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Speaker 2: They were five and eight?

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Speaker 1: Damn all right, I still got time. I could do it.

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Speaker 2: It's quite easy to immigrate to Costrica. I just put

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Speaker 2: that out there. They make it very easy in lots

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Speaker 2: of different ways.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, and look, you know that's the fucking you

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Speaker 3: loved that ship out there. And it's funny too, like

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Speaker 3: every d I used to, like back when I was

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Speaker 3: like years ago, my friends would be like, oh, can

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Speaker 3: I go to Costa Rica? Like when you go, I

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Speaker 3: want to go with you. Every person that comes with

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Speaker 3: me ruined, They're ruined.

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Speaker 2: After I went to Like, I had to go to

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Speaker 2: a conference last month in the US, and like I

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Speaker 2: was on. I was on a bunch of panels, one

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Speaker 2: of which was actually like a panel that I organized.

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Speaker 2: And I went to lunch beforehand, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I want to walk back from lunch. It's a beautiful day.

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Speaker 2: And I totally put aviated my ass into being like

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Speaker 2: ten minutes late for my own panel.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, what the fuck are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, I know I wanted to walk after lunch.

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Speaker 3: Oh here's something you should learn. Yeah, you should learn

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Speaker 3: about me. I'm on Tico time.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sorry. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And when you were ten minutes late for your own panel,

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Speaker 1: your life completely fell apart, right, And.

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Speaker 2: That was you know what charming?

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Speaker 3: Oh weird?

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Speaker 1: So that you can actually just have a good pace

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Speaker 1: of life exactly, Yeah, not.

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Speaker 3: In my brain. My brain will be like this is it.

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Speaker 3: This is the end of my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, fucking show up. All right, Amy, we're going

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Speaker 1: to get to know you a little bit better in

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Speaker 1: a moment. First, we're going to tell our listeners a

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Speaker 1: couple of the things we're talking about. Uh, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the one point five celsius threshold of

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Speaker 1: global warming, which we're going to be crossing in the

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Speaker 1: next years, the coming days. It'll be like that scene

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Speaker 1: in the Social Network where they have the big numbers

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Speaker 1: up on the board and then everybody celebrates and Mark

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Speaker 1: Zuckerberg threatens to sue somebody. So we're just going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the general state of climate with Amy. We're

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Speaker 1: also going to get to a fellow, you know, David v.

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Speaker 1: Goliaths Amy. You know, Amy takes on the fossil fuel industry,

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Speaker 1: tells difficult truths about them that they don't want told. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's another David taken on Golias by the name of

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Speaker 1: Kirk Cameron, and he has decided to take on Big Librarian.

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Speaker 1: So get ready for a sordid tale. All of that

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Speaker 1: plenty more. But first, Amy, we do like to ask

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Speaker 1: our guests, what is something from your search history?

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Speaker 2: Well, this morning I was looking at oil stock prices,

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Speaker 2: which I feel like is very on free end of it,

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Speaker 2: but like the less expected one from last night, which

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Speaker 2: this is embarrassing. I looked at how to make fried

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Speaker 2: mac and cheese balls because I had a bunch of

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Speaker 2: leftover mac and cheese, which is both gross but also

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Speaker 2: delicious really good.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, so just breadcrumbs basically, just.

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Speaker 2: You Okay, you roll them into balls and you freeze

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Speaker 2: them like you roll leftovers into like little balls. Freeze it.

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Speaker 2: Then you cover it in egg and breadcrumbs. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then pop into hair Fryernila.

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Speaker 1: More cheese, coating that thing like a couple cheese.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was thinking about that, like

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Speaker 2: could I wrap a piece of cheese around this before

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Speaker 2: I fried?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, use the egg as the glue that sticks the

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Speaker 1: cheese to it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you were check in the oil stocks just to

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Speaker 1: see how you was doing. Yes, Yes, are you diversified

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Speaker 1: because I got X and I got VP y shell baby,

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Speaker 1: I got them all.

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Speaker 2: So they're all there, They're all there.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see if there was a really big

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Speaker 2: ruling in a case I was falling against Exxon, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to see if it was the ruling came

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Speaker 2: out against exon. I wanted to see if it impacted

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Speaker 2: their stock.

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Speaker 3: And it did, so that's why I get. That's why

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Speaker 3: you weren't in Zurich this winter when I was looking

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Speaker 3: for you on the slopes and let's she.

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Speaker 1: Excellent, probably walking home late to this skiing. What is

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Speaker 1: something you think is overrated?

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Speaker 2: Oh blue sky? The new social media? Yes, go on,

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Speaker 2: just old Twitter. It's old Twitter. It's two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 2: two thousand an e ish Twitter. And I feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything that makes me think it will

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Speaker 2: end up differently. So yeah. Also, honestly, I feel like

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Speaker 2: everyone should just take the opportunity to get the fuck

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Speaker 2: off of social media, Like it'll be okay, it'll be okay,

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Speaker 2: and like we're all screwing around trying to find a

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Speaker 2: cool replacement. But like maybe it's just time to, you know,

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Speaker 2: talk to people in real life, touch grass as the

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Speaker 2: youths like to say.

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Speaker 1: So, where do you find the strangers that you argue with?

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Speaker 1: Do you just kind of find this stranger?

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Speaker 2: Actually weird, weird little discovery about my corner of Costa

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Speaker 2: Rica is a whole bunch of really like random libertarians

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Speaker 2: so here in the last few years, including a lot

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Speaker 2: of like Alberta Tarsan's billionaires from Canada. So so yes,

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Speaker 2: I do come. I come across street to argue with

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Speaker 2: not on the street in real life, in my in

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Speaker 2: my neighborhood. Sometimes, Yes, that.

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Speaker 3: Area is interesting because like flying out of San Jose

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Speaker 3: is very different than flying out of Liu Aia. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: like the airport in Lividia feels like Florida. Yes, Like

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Speaker 3: when I'm there, I'm like, I'm sorry, where are It's like.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, totally. And then you know Tamarindo, which

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Speaker 2: is like the biggest kind of town outside from Liberia

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Speaker 2: here is everyone calls it Tama Gringo because it is

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Speaker 2: so it's like the whitest town.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, yes, good sports, that's what brings me down here.

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Speaker 3: Great sports, fishing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are all these these people and it's

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Speaker 2: I had a conversation just last week with someone who

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Speaker 2: was saying they were from they were from Alberta, Tarzan Skuy,

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Speaker 2: and he was like, I like it here because it's

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Speaker 2: because of the freedom. And I was like, oh, you

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Speaker 2: know what actually enables that freedom. The normal social safety

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Speaker 2: nets are a good day.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, how are you with all the vaccine passport

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Speaker 3: stuff when Costa Rica was on top of that. Because

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Speaker 3: they were on top of.

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Speaker 2: That, they were on top of it, and a bunch

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Speaker 2: of those people just like couldn't leave the country for

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Speaker 2: for like a while because not only was cost Rica

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Speaker 2: on top of it, but also you know, other countries

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Speaker 2: were asking for for vaccine things too, So yeah, actually

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Speaker 2: a bunch of those people were effectively housebound. And that's

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Speaker 2: the thing too. They're like, oh, but I didn't get sick,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, because the rest of the country

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Speaker 2: got vaccinated. Dude, that's how it works, right, Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, See,

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Speaker 2: it's just like Twitter, but in real life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can have the same arguments and they aren't

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Speaker 3: even made up people in your head while you're trying

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Speaker 3: to go to sleep in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what is uh? What something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 2: I'm so embarrassed to say this out loud. Birds. I

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Speaker 2: fucking love to watch birds go off.

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Speaker 1: Birds queen, what amazing birds here. I've heard of these things,

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Speaker 1: but I actually haven't. So you're you've got a person

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Speaker 1: who's underrating birds here. I've heard of them, but like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: They're a little flying dinosaurs. They're little flying dinosaurs. How

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Speaker 2: dare you?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: I yeah, they're reading, Uh what's the book that's about,

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Speaker 1: like the evolution of how they became so beautiful?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. Weirdly, I have, like I rarely

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Speaker 2: have an obsession with burbs and yet know nothing about them,

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Speaker 2: Like made it as much obsession with bbs. I need

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Speaker 2: a T shirt that says I heart Burbs now yes please? Anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I like, I really like them. I like watching them,

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Speaker 2: but I know almost nothing about them. Someone asked me, like,

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Speaker 2: I had someone visiting the other day and I was like, look,

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Speaker 2: it's my favorite yellow bird. And they're like, you mean

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Speaker 2: the blah blah blah. I'm like, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: it's called. It's like yellow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know yellow bird yellow.

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Speaker 1: I love birds, you know, And I'm picturing that conversation

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Speaker 1: happening around big bird.

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Speaker 3: By the way.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I love yellow bird, and they're like big bird.

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Speaker 3: You're like, I don't know the.

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Speaker 2: Tech whatever you call him.

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Speaker 3: I'm not gonna I'm not going to hit you with

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Speaker 3: the binomial nomenclature here, but I believe it's just yellow bird.

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Speaker 1: A damn My Google search how Birds Got So Pretty

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Speaker 1: did not did not bring up the book that I

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Speaker 1: was thinking of. It's like the Birds Evolution The Evolution

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Speaker 1: of Birds by Sarah Hills. How beauty is making science

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Speaker 1: the rise of birds. I'll figure it out by the end.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's all about.

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Speaker 3: Just you know, they they started.

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Speaker 1: It's been a steady arms race like how to be

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Speaker 1: most beautiful bird since they started evolving. And it's like, like.

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Speaker 2: So humans won't kill them or.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not like that's what I always assumed. It

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Speaker 1: was like that there must be some you know, survival

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Speaker 1: of the fittest, like kill or be killed thing to this,

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Speaker 1: and it's just mating and trying to be the sexiest bird.

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Speaker 3: To other amazing.

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Speaker 1: Ye, I love it. It's all about Yeah, it's all

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Speaker 1: about being hot and right. That's also why their songs

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Speaker 1: are so beautiful. It has nothing to do with us.

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Speaker 1: They don't give a ship yet.

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Speaker 2: I feel like you're just talking yourself into loving birds

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Speaker 2: more right now.

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Speaker 1: No, I actually I was playing playing character of guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I love birds too. Yeah, it's the one like

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Speaker 1: with the bower bird that like builds that immaculate like

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Speaker 1: sex throne sexist. The bower bird like builds like goes around,

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Speaker 1: gets all these like shiny trinkets and different things like hey, like, hey.

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Speaker 3: Check this out.

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Speaker 1: This is chick old plastic spoon. Like some of the dances,

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Speaker 1: some of the mating dances.

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Speaker 3: That they do.

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Speaker 1: It's like four dudes will do a mating dance so

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Speaker 1: that one of them can mate, and they are like elaborate.

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Speaker 3: And that was my One of my favorite Planet Earth

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Speaker 3: segments too, was on the one all the different birds

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Speaker 3: and like how they were just all getting down and

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Speaker 3: then just watching like the disinterested female be like just

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Speaker 3: fly away, like.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The Evolution of Beauty, How Darwin's forgotten theory

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Speaker 1: of mate choice shapes the animal world and us by

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Speaker 1: Richard oh prum Is.

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Speaker 3: Okay, don't even have birds in the title.

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Speaker 1: It has birds, Yeah, verbs, urbsburbsumb birds. Well, let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break. We'll come back and talk about some news.

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Speaker 4: My favorite Tom Hanks movie, The Burbs, thea Burbs.

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Speaker 1: And we're back, and so is this climate change story

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Speaker 1: back in the news. It's like enough, we get it,

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Speaker 1: am I right?

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Speaker 3: I remember telling you after Coachella. After Coachella, Jack I

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Speaker 3: was telling you, like, I'm only about good vibes right now, yes, vibes,

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Speaker 3: And I didn't want to think about climat change or

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Speaker 3: whatever it's called. It's so such a bummer, but yeah, man,

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Speaker 3: one and a half degree is celsius is like something

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Speaker 3: that stretched me out since I first heard of like

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Speaker 3: the concept. You know that the Earth is a degree

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Speaker 3: and a half celsius warmer now than it was on

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Speaker 3: the back end of the nineteenth century. It's sort of

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Speaker 3: like a key indicator of potential runaway climate change, which

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Speaker 3: would lead to increased fires and out and storms and

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Speaker 3: heat waves and everything we've seen that has been so

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Speaker 3: fucking horrific and obviously the key number behind many climate

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Speaker 3: summits and negotiations around emissions, and researchers are now saying

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Speaker 3: that they expect to see us pass this threshold within

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Speaker 3: the next few years, like by twenty twenty seven. They

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Speaker 3: think it's going to happen, And they say there's still time,

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Speaker 3: and that merely getting to one and a half degree

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Speaker 3: celsius doesn't mean that the parish agreement is completely futile.

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Speaker 3: It would have to be sustained, a sustained sort of

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Speaker 3: increase over twenty years for that to happen. But as

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Speaker 3: someone who's constantly freaked the fuck out by the chances

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Speaker 3: of again increased terrible weather events, it fills me with

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Speaker 3: an impotent rage. Phrase we've been saying quite frequently on

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Speaker 3: the show. But yeah, like Amy, as someone that's you're

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Speaker 3: very dialed in on this and all of the machinations

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Speaker 3: around climate change and climate denial, aside from the fact

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Speaker 3: that climate change denial is doing its job, how are

440
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 3: you feeling about this, this sort of this news.

441
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: It's just it's really frustrated because I feel like, well,

442
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: first of all, I think, okay, I feel like we

443
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: should say that a lot of like a lot of

444
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: the predictions around it happening in the next few years

445
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: are also related to the El Nino, right stuff, And

446
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: so scientists are like, we'll probably cross it and then

447
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: go back, which is good just to you know, give

448
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 2: people a very tiny sliver of the slight breast of

449
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: the silver lighting. But but yeah, I mean, aside from that,

450
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: every single indication is that we are hurdling towards one

451
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: point five degrees and beyond. I mean, since the Paris

452
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: Climate Agreement, I don't think anyone has actually kept their commitments,

453
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: and we're going the opposite direction on oil and gas development.

454
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 2: That's just the facts. So, I mean, I don't know.

455
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: My personal opinion is that the international climate negotiations process

456
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: has kind of been broken from the beginning. I mean

457
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: there were fossil fuel company is involved in that from

458
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 2: the jump, I mean, from you know, even before the

459
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 2: first they call it the Conference of the Parties cop

460
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: which are these like annual global meetings or all of

461
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: the leaders get together and they decide on an agreement.

462
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: Before that, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So before that, in nineteen

463
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 2: ninety two, there was the Real Earth Summit, which is

464
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: where they came up with like, you know, the UN

465
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: Framework for Climate Change and how were they were going

466
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: to bring everyone together to do this? And there were

467
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: oil guys all over that place. They were they helped

468
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: to craft some of the language of the UN framing

469
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: on climate change and really like with the idea of

470
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: you know, we will voluntarily do X, y Z, so

471
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: nobody has to regulate emissions, nobody has to make emissions

472
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: reductions mandatory, any of that. The closest that we ever

473
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 2: got to doing something that would have that you know,

474
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: had some impact was probably the Kyoto Protocol in the

475
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: mid nineties, which had binding emissions reductions where you had

476
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: to actually you had to actually do something. Since then,

477
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: everything's been voluntary. So you know, in Europe there are

478
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: countries that are being sued for not regulating their oil

479
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: and gas companies to keep them in line with the

480
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: Paris Climate Accord, which is very interesting. There was a

481
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: case last year in the Netherlands where a court ordered

482
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 2: Shell to like to reduce their missions. They were like,

483
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: you guys actually have to reduce emissions across the board

484
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,959
Speaker 2: around the world from not just your own operations, but

485
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: also the use of your product by like forty percent

486
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: in the next ten years or something like that. So

487
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 2: there are like things happening outside of the global kind

488
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: of negotiations. But I don't know, I just I feel

489
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: like I kind of think it's time, you know, to

490
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: just kick the fossil fuel industry out of that whole process.

491
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: They've been there the whole time. You know, we're not

492
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: getting any closer to actually doing something, and you know,

493
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: next year's cop is going to be held by the

494
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 2: United Arab Emirates.

495
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: And is like this is crazy.

496
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: The most fossil fueled of these events to have happened,

497
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: so it's getting worse now.

498
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it's covered like it's a solution, like it's a

499
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: possible solution every year, and the people who are on

500
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: the ground are like, it's it's a oil industry trade show.

501
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: It is. It's exactly that.

502
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I always talk about too, like how outnumbered

503
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 3: representatives from countries are versus the fossil fuel industry. There

504
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: are more people here from the fossil fuel industry than

505
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: like countries that are at like right now seeing the

506
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 3: worst of climate change exactly exactly.

507
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: But then you also have like at the same time

508
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: you have I don't know, we just did the story

509
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: in Guyana, which has me thinking a lot about all

510
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: of this stuff. Because they're Global South country. They had

511
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: no oil industry up until twenty nineteen. So actually the

512
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: last time I was here is when they started their

513
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: oil industry.

514
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: And what's happening time good news.

515
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're now on track to be the number one

516
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 2: like production zone for exonmobile in the world.

517
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.

518
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: For it to happen that quickly is really unheard of,

519
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: and you know, it's but it's really interesting to talk

520
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: to some of the politicians there because Guyana was like

521
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 2: a big conservation leader for a long time. They were

522
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 2: one of the first countries that was sort of like

523
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: paid by polluting countries to preserve their forests and stuff

524
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: like that, and they are like a big eco tourism

525
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: destination all of this stuff. But they're like, we have

526
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: ninety percent of our population on the coast and it

527
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: is that stretch of the coast where ninety percent of

528
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: the population lives is going to be underwater by twenty

529
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: thirty and we don't have the money to do anything

530
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: about that. So we're getting into the oil business. And

531
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: I was just like, man, that is the biggest indictment

532
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: of the international climates like negotiation system that I can

533
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: think of, because like we have put these countries in

534
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: the position of being dependent on oil fucking companies. Yeah

535
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: to adapt to climate change, right. Yeah, So anyway, I'm

536
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: really fun at parties and yeah, I mean I think

537
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: that the thing with one point five is like just

538
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: to give people again, like a tiny bit of I

539
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: don't not necessarily hope, but maybe like fuel to keep going.

540
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: It's just that like it's it every percentage of a

541
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: degree counts, and everything that we do now will have

542
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: an impact on, you know, the viability of the next generation.

543
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: And we're not great as humans are thinking about, you know,

544
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: being a good ancestor to future generations. But we need

545
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: to be because we get there.

546
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: I think other civilizations were good at that. Just what

547
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: this Western hyper consumerist, hyper capitalism version of humanity, which

548
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: is an aberration. It's just a cancer that's taken over

549
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: and spread. But it's totally it is bad at that.

550
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: But there have been you know, long surviving civilizations that we're.

551
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 2: We're good at it, yeah, exactly.

552
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, the only concept we have of being good ants

553
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 3: I should be like, well I need to accumulate as

554
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: much wealth now, yes, to let that maybe behind or

555
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: maybe I die with it all in my coffin. I

556
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know. But that's like the thinking

557
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: that you think people do now is sort of like

558
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: it's it's a financial future. Yeah, and it's like if

559
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: anything else is too abstract. It's not about like, well

560
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 3: I can make decisions now, Like to your point, Amy,

561
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: that could can reverberate on some level, right, but it's

562
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: we don't think like that.

563
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: No, No, yeah, exactly, Like a lot of a lot

564
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: of indigenous cultures had that really baked into everything, you know,

565
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: like totally how what we do now will impact this

566
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: water source for future generations and this food source and

567
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: all of that stuff. And I feel like, yeah, the

568
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: world has gotten really far away from, weirdly from the

569
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: sorts of behaviors and practices that are conducive to the

570
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: sustainability of human life. Like we talk about sustainability, you know,

571
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, the environment or the trees or

572
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: whatever it. Guess, like all of that is very important

573
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: and we're part of that. But I don't understand the

574
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: like the death wish thing, and I don't think that

575
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: most humans have it. I think we're talking about a

576
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: very specific group of people who make these decisions and

577
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: who and you know, people say things like, well, they're

578
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: you know, that's ridiculous because nobody can escape the impacts

579
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: of climate change. I don't think that's actually true. I think,

580
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: and I don't think that they think it's true. I

581
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: think that you have a bunch of people who are like,

582
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: I'll just get my spaceship, like freakin' Elon Musk is

583
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: on that tip now, you know. It's like Wally right,

584
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: and like bunkers in New Zealand and Costa Rica and

585
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: they'll you.

586
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: Know, they're all buying up beach or like you knows.

587
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

588
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: So we've we've talked a little bit about like a

589
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: couple of stories in the past few months that have

590
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: made me feel somewhat optimistic are the story of how

591
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: the Netherlands like made like cut emissions across their country

592
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: by like getting rid of cars basically in a lot

593
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: of theirs.

594
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: And it made their cities more pleasant.

595
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, is like, yeah,

596
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: these are I think the thing that appeals to me

597
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: about these two stories like Paris becoming this like amazing

598
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: bikeable city, the Netherlands doing that after being like just

599
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: traffic choked like the worst versions of American cities, you know,

600
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: very decade within the past like fifty years. And I think, like,

601
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: I think the thing that a problem we have is

602
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: like a lack of imagination, Like what how the solution

603
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: to climate change could be cool and could like create

604
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: a reality that actually, you know, captures your imagination and

605
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: makes the world like a more fun place to be,

606
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: Like they turned that highway into a river beach on

607
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: the river send like in like that fucking rules. Yeah,

608
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: so like yeah, and then there are things like like

609
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: we I think we tend to hear a lot about

610
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: the vicious cycles and not the virtuous cycles when it

611
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: comes to climate. So like I'm just curious, are there

612
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: are there other places where you see people like creating better,

613
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: more sustainable futures that are actually like more fun or yes.

614
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well honestly, I feel like every single place that

615
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: has done that has has created like a higher quality

616
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: of living as a as a result. I mean I

617
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: live in a country that very much did that, like

618
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: Costa Rica in the seventies, you know, decided not to industrialize,

619
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 2: well actually to undo a bunch of industrialization that it happened,

620
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: and to really prioritize protecting the ecosystem in a way.

621
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: It's and it's not at all like it forgets about

622
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: humans or something. I feel like that's a trope that

623
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of a lot of people think

624
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,959
Speaker 2: is true that like you well, a that humans aren't

625
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: part of the environment and that and be that if

626
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 2: you care about ecosystems, you don't care about humans. But anyway,

627
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: like there's they did a really good job of of

628
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 2: you know, talking to all of the different types of stakeholders,

629
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: farmers and you know, fishermen and all of these people

630
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: who depended on these resources and figuring out a way

631
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: to protect them and to enable everyone to actually enjoy,

632
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: you know, being in all of these beautiful natural places

633
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 2: and like it's it's a way better quality of life.

634
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 2: Like New Zealand too, we actually did a whole season

635
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: on like a legal concept called rights of nature that

636
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 2: comes from indigenous ideas about kind of how to value

637
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: nature and how to think through any decision that you're

638
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 2: making through the lens of like what impacts it will

639
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: have on the ecosystem, including humans. But you know kind

640
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 2: of okay, like let's take a holistic view of what

641
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: it will mean to build this building or build this

642
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: road or whatever. And in New Zealand, they have kind

643
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: of baked that into like a sort of a land

644
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: back movement with First Nations people there. It's fascinating. So

645
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: they restored rights to like a sacred mountain to the

646
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 2: Maori there, and they kind of gave so the mountain

647
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: has rights, and then the Maori community has the ability

648
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: to protect the mountain's rights because of that, Like they've

649
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 2: turned what had been a national park that wasn't being

650
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: looked after, like it was full of trash and people

651
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: were kind of dumping on it all the time into

652
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: this really, really beautiful place that has all of these

653
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: you know, cultural centers and language learning classes and it

654
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: has just become like a like a point of pride

655
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: for the local community and also someplace for you know,

656
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: people in the country to come and visit. And like,

657
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just I feel like there's a

658
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: chapter in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report,

659
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: the IBCC report, that was like the most wonky title.

660
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: I think it was called demand growth Scenarios or something

661
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: like that, but the whole point of it was so boring.

662
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: But the whole point of it was like looking at

663
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 2: these co benefits of like reducing consumption. Basically, it was

664
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: kind of radical for them to say this because it

665
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: was like the most anti capitalist like proposal from this

666
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: panel of scientists, and they were like, actually, if we

667
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: just changed all of these behaviors that are pretty basic.

668
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, making it easier to get around

669
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: cities on public transport or walking or biking, shifting diets,

670
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: not entirely getting rid of meat, but like just making

671
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: them more plant based, right, you know, like a lot

672
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: of really basic things. They were like, we could actually

673
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 2: reduce emissions from forty to seventy percent by twenty fifty

674
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: just doing those things, not deploying a new technology, not

675
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: like waiting for someone to come up with a you know,

676
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: giant vacuum that sucks carbon out of the sky, which

677
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 2: seems to be a lot of people's dream right now,

678
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 2: you know, and that it has all of these benefits

679
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: for health, for you know, quality of life, for economically

680
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: for people it costs less to live in cities like that.

681
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just I feel like there's this ten

682
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: for the climate movement to kind of constantly just be

683
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: reacting to the oil guys and their friends saying like

684
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 2: they want to take your hamburgers or like they never

685
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: want you to travel again or whatever. Instead of being like, no,

686
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: we don't. I think the climate people kind of need

687
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: to be like, this is what we're talking about, and

688
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 2: just yeah, they're framing altogether.

689
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 3: More bikes, more bikes.

690
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like there's a lack of imagination for

691
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: how good, you know, a more sustainable future can be.

692
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: And then there's a lack of imagination for how evil

693
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: and cynical like things actually are. On the corporate side, it's.

694
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: And there's like an over emphasis of how great things

695
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: are in this like hyper capitalism. Like, look around, guys,

696
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: it's not good. You know, do you feel everyone I

697
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 2: know in the US is super stressed out? No one

698
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: is being made happier by you know, the super fast,

699
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 2: convenient capital that that's provided.

700
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: More like isolated and cellularized.

701
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: And yeah, the only.

702
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: Thing it's good for is making consumerism like easier.

703
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: It's not good for people. Hyper consumerism is the new

704
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 3: opioid of the masses.

705
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: Basically, it doesn't even work. And all we're doing is

706
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: just fucking fiending for the next thing.

707
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 3: And but I have I actually have a proposal that

708
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 3: can tackle climate change and gun control because the Netherlands,

709
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 3: you know, it's a good juxtaposition, they got more bikes

710
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 3: than people over there. Yeah, America got more guns than people.

711
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: What we need to do is convert these guns to bikes. Yeah,

712
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: and now you're taking guns off the street and you

713
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: turn them into bicycles. I think it's win win when

714
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: or you just have to like or like always have

715
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: to market bikes to be like the new fucking pickup

716
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 3: truck to writ like.

717
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: Tires with spikes on them.

718
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And we just need like a cool you know,

719
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 3: like like Jack, you're referencing Fast and the Furious sort

720
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 3: of off mic about like how that makes cars look cool. Yeah.

721
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like the win win is the like cooler

722
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: cities to exist in and they're more sustainable, like better

723
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: quality of life and it's sustainable.

724
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 3: Fast and Furious would be like.

725
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: A win lose where it's like cool movie. It does

726
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: make gas powered cars look really good. Looks makes them

727
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: look too damn cool. So we need more win wins,

728
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: like things that appeal to our imagination.

729
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of them out there. It's not

730
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: like it's not like we have to go create a

731
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 2: bunch of new things. There's like a whole bunch of

732
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: stuff out there that already delivers.

733
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, multi wins. Our media does a terrible

734
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: job of covering it, right.

735
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 3: It's also it's so interesting too, like if we just

736
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 3: had protected bike lanes through intersections like that would even help,

737
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 3: Like I feel like especially in La yeah, because that's

738
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 3: where people get hit.

739
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all I feel like.

740
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: Just incrementally be like, you know what, we're going to

741
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 3: turn up to intersections a little bit so that the

742
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: bike lanes are protected. I'm sure so many more people

743
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 3: would ride bikes, like myself included, because in La some

744
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 3: of these intersections. Man, you're just it's like it's a miracle.

745
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 3: How there's like a just a rapidly increasing like number

746
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 3: of fucked up bike v. Car accidents.

747
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, London has like built a bunch of like separate

748
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: bike paths, like they're like completely separate and like go

749
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: around go around intersections, and yeah, they look cool and

750
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: they're I don't know, man, yeah, there there are we

751
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: I just think there's a hopelessness because they we aren't

752
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: given the proper like imaginative ballast to like create the

753
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: solutions in our own minds.

754
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to think that the solutions are like fees

755
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 2: of there's such a like defeatism, I think, yeah, in

756
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: the face of like, yeah, all of the corporate control

757
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: and you know, corrupt government stuff and whatever, but you

758
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: do see it like at the city and state level, Yeah,

759
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: things can happen and so.

760
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like Denver had a great like e bike

761
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 3: program that was so popular and yeah, you know that's

762
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: been a boon for them, and I just think like

763
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: if you have to like even start smaller, like during

764
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 3: the like in the initial parts of the pandemic, I

765
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 3: was really into this web series called Drum and Bass

766
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 3: on the Bike and it was this guy who basically

767
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: he's like a DJ, but rigged up speakers and like

768
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 3: a turntable set up to his bicycle and just rode

769
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 3: around blasting drum and bass. And it just grew to

770
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 3: like hundreds of people all on bikes just vibing out

771
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 3: to music. But on bike was that in La No,

772
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 3: it's in England, Like start off in London and then

773
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 3: then you would be like, yo, I'm going to be

774
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: in Brighton, I'm going to be in Manchester, I'm being Liverpool, whatever,

775
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 3: and people just will come out just to like first

776
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: just kind of vibe because everybody felt so separated. But

777
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 3: I was like, this is genius on another level because

778
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: it's not so much about like we're doing the right

779
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 3: thing by the environment or whatever, but like getting people

780
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 3: really into the idea of like getting together being on

781
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 3: bikes and just having like a really good time with that.

782
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 3: And I feel like that's kind of like my fast

783
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 3: and furious of like biking that I see and I'm

784
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 3: like more bad and that.

785
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 2: Exactly, and we need that. Like I always whenever people

786
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: ask me like about anything that gives me like optimism

787
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: on the climate front, it's always community stuff. It's always

788
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 2: like any like community action because like, a we need

789
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: that as like in the US in particular, like really

790
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: needs to sort of like figure out community.

791
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: You know.

792
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: And then and then on top of that, it's also

793
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 2: like it's also how you're going to survive climate change,

794
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: you know, like as as we deal with more and

795
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: more extreme weather events, like you need to you need

796
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 2: to have neighbors that you can count on, like you

797
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: need to live in community with other people, and we

798
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: have got to figure that shit out. Yeah.

799
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

800
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: I think Americans tend to who haven't been through a

801
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: crisis or a climate crisis or a hurricane, you know,

802
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: glued to their screens watching the other people, and they're like,

803
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: I bet there's looting crews going around. I would shoot

804
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: them so hard. And then people who are actually in

805
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: the crisis are like helping each other out, and like

806
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: this was actually really cool, Like I learned a lot.

807
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: About my neighbors and like I really respect them.

808
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 2: A lot more exactly.

809
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just I think it was a podcast

810
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: that I was listening to that you were on the

811
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: mention that Amy Cony Barrett's dead is a longtime shell exactly.

812
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 2: Yep.

813
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 3: Like, so that's number two.

814
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: Like, so we learned that Brett Kavanaugh's dad was like

815
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: the lobbyist who made it possible for Johnson and Johnson

816
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: to continue to sell baby powder even though it was

817
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: like obviously giving people cancer and right, it's just.

818
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing. And Alito Justice Alito has stock and Conicco Phillips.

819
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: That's another one, Like do they pick these people out

820
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: to be Supreme Court justices when they were kids? Are

821
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 1: they just like yeah, they got the agree like pro

822
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: oil pro they find them when they're preteens. Yeah, it

823
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: is I cynical and complex and it's wild that like

824
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: there there isn't more made of that.

825
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: Also, I know it's really it's.

826
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 3: The bad guy. It's really bad.

827
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: The good positive solutions could be really fun and yeah,

828
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: it gets ignored.

829
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: A lot, yeah, which it's true.

830
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break, we'll come back,

831
00:45:54,160 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: we'll talk Kirk camera, we'll be right back, and we're back,

832
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: and we're back, and Kirk Cameron is back in all

833
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: of our minds and hearts. So who's trending? I think

834
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: it was last week. Not because there's a new entry

835
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: in the Left Behind Cinematic Universe, so though we're all

836
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: waiting on the edge of our seats for that, but

837
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: due to an o An interview in which he ranted

838
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: about how public schools are quote killing God from his home,

839
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: which features a barn with a giant crucifix entryway, Like

840
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: just the whole side of the barn is a a

841
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: crucifix hole that you then like walk through to get through.

842
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 3: And I hate to be I hate to I hate

843
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: to take it to Bible school again like I did

844
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: yesterday with the goods American thing. But that's that's just

845
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 3: a cross. It's not a crucifix. Yeah, of Christ on

846
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 3: the Cross. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry Christ. I'm sorry. Christ.

847
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 3: Do not smite this podcast.

848
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: But it's just so impractical, Like it must be so

849
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: hard to keep that like warm in the winter time.

850
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 3: It looks like if the kool aid man was Christian

851
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: and he busted through your barn, He's like, oh yeah,

852
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 3: like the shape it was just like a very jit cross.

853
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: It's like a two to three story tall hole in

854
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: the side of his barn.

855
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

856
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: But since the end of twenty twenty two, he has

857
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: been actively promoting his new book, As You Grow, which

858
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: huh sounds harmless enough. I think we can give it

859
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: a pass yep, but that as that might indicate this

860
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: motherfucker is still using growing pains puns. It's about a

861
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: tree and how those of us who don't believe in

862
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: God will burn for all eternity.

863
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 3: Hell yeah.

864
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: The description on Amazon boasts that it was written by

865
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: the Ledge Dairy Kirk Camera Legend, Legen Legion like fucking

866
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: mt We've talked about the publisher Brave Books before. They're

867
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: trying to like create a right wing marvel cinematic universe

868
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 1: for children like children books like all the books are

869
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: set in a magical land of freedom.

870
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 3: Island is shockingly unfree. You will be.

871
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: Surprised to learn their locations such as car A Lago Coast,

872
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: car A Lago.

873
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

874
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 3: There's also a place called Wigamore Woods. What's Wigamore is

875
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 3: that for like the white people who think they're black,

876
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 3: like all the wiggers hang out over there. That might

877
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 3: they might have that in their books. I don't know,

878
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 3: some must all these Okay, whatever, cool, let's go to

879
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: Freedom Island.

880
00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's talking animals and conservative buzzwords, and that seems

881
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: to be about it. But so he was making headlines

882
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: last year when his book launched, claiming that he has

883
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: been banned from holding readings of his book by woke

884
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: public libraries. Huh, because first of all, is there anyone

885
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: anyone more victimized than white Christian former TV stars trying

886
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: to promote their latest vanity project, Like, oh absolutely, it's

887
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: so hard for them. And also, is there a scarier

888
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: villain than librarians?

889
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 3: I mean that you Encounts on Human Rights talked about

890
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 3: this about how the problem white Christian former TV stars

891
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: are really really we really need to bring more attention

892
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 3: to their plight.

893
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: They're protected group. But his war with librarians mainly is

894
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: him piggybacking on all the bigotry and hate directed at

895
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: drag Queen's story hours using it to promote his book

896
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: are doing that Books featuring l g B t Q

897
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: plus characters are terrifying and a step towards totalitarianism.

898
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: Wow, not like not like burning and banning books that's

899
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 2: not a step towards.

900
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 3: The I don't see any historical reference point for that

901
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 3: that would make sense at all. This is what he's

902
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 3: probably saying, Yeah, toward totalitarian acceptance.

903
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: Yes, he denied that he's just trying to make headlines

904
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: and sell his book and claimed that librarians were starting

905
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: a war with him.

906
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 2: Librarian said, who is Kirk Cameron?

907
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: Yes? Wait, so how did they start this war? Because

908
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 3: they people drove to his house and threw dog shit

909
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 3: on his door and said, don't fuck with the library.

910
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 3: I mean the fact that the hole that his door

911
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 3: is a giant cross shaped hole would make it super

912
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 3: easy to throw dog shit in there. But yeah, he So.

913
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: His version of wade them waging war on him is

914
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: that he asked for and he didn't just ask for

915
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: like a slot to read his books to kids at

916
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: the libraries, and his agencies email the libraries. They mentioned

917
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: that Cameron also wanted to lecture children about the quote

918
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: harmful effects of woke ideology, specifically critical race theory and

919
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: the transgender agenda.

920
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: Transgender, the transgender.

921
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 3: What the fuck? It's like, it's so obvious, like he's

922
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 3: just drafting off of like the culture warship for.

923
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: Him, but that that letter was specifically written to like

924
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: outrage the people who get box. And then there was

925
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: libraries like one in Providence, Rhode Island very politely declined

926
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: the offer because they are They were like, hey, we're

927
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: like super queer friendly and that like your messaging just

928
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: like would not align with the community.

929
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 3: Whoa and what so yeah what words of war fighting words?

930
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: Messaging does not quite align?

931
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 2: Is the library really called Rochambeau?

932
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? Wow, I love that.

933
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

934
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 3: Okay, so that was that was the That was the

935
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: killing of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Yes, little prince hip,

936
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 3: So then tell me, tell me how the invasion of Poland.

937
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: I think I'm mixing my World War II eyes up.

938
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 3: But yeah.

939
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: Another library received Cameron's request in New York and responded

940
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: to the message by and like, try try to remain

941
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: calm as you hear this act of aggression, sending a

942
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: link to the online application for presenting a library program.

943
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 3: What the fuck?

944
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, you want to read at our library? Oh?

945
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: Just like here, here's where's the form, which they do

946
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: to every request of this type. And the publisher did

947
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: not submit an application oh, censorship. Yes, And then so

948
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: he sent a letter about the transgender agenda, the transgender.

949
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 3: And thank you, thank you jfkgenda.

950
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: And the library declined extremely politely, and Kirk Cameron threatened

951
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: legal action. No, and the library director directed them to

952
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: a request for a room rental.

953
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: Okay, do it in fine, you can have access to

954
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,479
Speaker 3: the library, but just do it in your own little room.

955
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 2: Of This is the thing that is like pissing me

956
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 2: off the most about all of these these guys being like,

957
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 2: I'm my free speech rights are being you know, curtailed

958
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 2: or whatever, Like, no one guarantees you an audience, bro,

959
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: That is not what the First Amendment says, speech, not

960
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 2: free reach. Like, get a grip. I don't understand it.

961
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: I thought they all had pocket constitutions they should read them.

962
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that is that's what they want. That's what

963
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: Elon Musk wants. Ye'll keep firing people until every one

964
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: of his tweets gets to every Twitter more traction than

965
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: the supermom.

966
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.

967
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: But so he he did that, then booked the room,

968
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 1: but then complained, and this is like a subtle form

969
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: of warfare. Complained because his event wasn't on the website calendar,

970
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: even though a Plato playdate was.

971
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: Come on. Plato play date is like a is like

972
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: a headline event for a library.

973
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the Night of Long Knives. I feel

974
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 1: like that's like promoting the Plato playdate. So in March,

975
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: he appeared at a Brave Books library, reading with other

976
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: illustrious children's authors such as Jack Pasobiac, Oh my God,

977
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: Sean Spicer, the Lips of TikTok person, and like twenty

978
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: people showed up and crew and they were like apparently

979
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: really embarrassed by that. I'm like, for twenty people for children?

980
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 3: Wait when was the book reading? I don't know. It

981
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 3: was like looks like it was ten thirty am on

982
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 3: a Wednesday.

983
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: Right, oh Wednesday morning. Yeah, weren't they in school?

984
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, children were in school, but they were taking out

985
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: twenty children and twenty five adults showed up.

986
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: What the plan it? Do you even know the concept

987
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 3: of your audience?

988
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: Like?

989
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 3: Where are they? There are in their mind they're all

990
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 3: being homeschooled because they're not getting indoctrinated with the woke

991
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 3: ideology in public schools or something. Sure, great, great time y.

992
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they again, it's the free speech not free

993
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: reach point, that's a that's a great saying, they say.

994
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: Exactly, Like, I just I don't know every single time

995
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 2: someone is like, but my idea is should have a

996
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: large audience.

997
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: No people don't like them though, Yeah, exactly exactly.

998
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, your whole thing is you hate pizza, exactly like

999
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 3: your audience. You just I don't know who the fuck

1000
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 3: I'm being surpressed? Yeah, just because everything I'm saying is

1001
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 3: so wildly unpopular. Why won't it catch on?

1002
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: Exactly?

1003
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 3: It worked for me. But then it's like always funny

1004
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: because you think these people are like it worked for Hitler, right,

1005
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 3: why can't it was killing it doing the same material

1006
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 3: right now? Yeah, no one likes it? What the fuck

1007
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 3: is this? But it's true.

1008
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: Everybody has a persecution complex, like including like NBA players,

1009
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: Like everybody like thinks because because it's like an optical

1010
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: illusion created by our attention economy where you like hear

1011
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: every bad thing that is ever said about you, and

1012
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: your brain only hears the bad things and not the

1013
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: good things, and so everybody thinks they're being persecuted. And yeah,

1014
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: the right is probably the biggest defender. Yeah, good luck

1015
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: to you, because they do actually suck as opposed to

1016
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: Joe LMB, who a lot of people like, but like

1017
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: one guy says he sucks and he's like nobody believed

1018
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: in me from the jut right actually sucks at what

1019
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: they're doing. So they're probably hearing a lot more of it.

1020
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1021
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Amy, it's been such a pleasure having

1022
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: you on the daily Zeikegeist.

1023
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me again. I'll see

1024
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: you guys in four years four.

1025
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: Type four later. Where can people find you? Follow you

1026
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: all that good stuff I have?

1027
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: Let's see a bunch of stuff on drilled dot media.

1028
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 2: That's where like the podcast and related writings and stuff are.

1029
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: I also write regularly for The Guardian and The Intercept

1030
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: and then I am on Twitter still at Amy Westervelt.

1031
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 3: There you go.

1032
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?

1033
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, have you guys seen I know that,

1034
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: Like we were talking about the writer's strike and how

1035
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 2: you know it's a bummer that all the TV channels

1036
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 2: are switching to like nonscripted reality TV. But have you

1037
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 2: seen Jury Duty?

1038
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1039
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: My god, it's so good.

1040
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 3: I love.

1041
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: No no.

1042
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: About son in law?

1043
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, now, dude, biodome.

1044
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jury Duty killed me.

1045
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 3: The streaming shows, yeah.

1046
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, it's so good. I thought it was

1047
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: so good and also like, yeah, just just sort of

1048
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 2: like endearing and very watchful. So yeah, that's the thing

1049
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: I binged most.

1050
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: Recently, Miles Where can people find you? Is there a

1051
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: work of media you've been enjoying.

1052
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 3: At based web sites at Miles of Gray. If you

1053
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 3: like basketball talk and you want to hear more about

1054
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 3: Jack Sad NBA, can check us out on our NBA podcast,

1055
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 3: Miles and Jack got Mad Boosties or Sad Boosties in

1056
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: this week's episode. And if you like ninety day Fiance,

1057
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 3: catch me and Sophia Alexandra out on our ninety day

1058
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 3: show for twenty Day Fiance. It's amazing a couple of

1059
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 3: meets I like because we were talking about you know,

1060
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: AI or and then the workers strike. This one is

1061
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 3: from Carl Sharro at Carl Remarks tweeted, humans doing the

1062
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 3: hard jobs on minimum wage while the robots write poetry

1063
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 3: and paint is not the future I wanted. Yeah that

1064
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 3: felt real, real, Yeah that was spot on. And then

1065
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 3: Taylor K Phillips at Take k Phillips tweeted, literally, no

1066
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 3: one understands something more completely than a woman in a

1067
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: meeting who starts a question with so just so I

1068
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 3: understand Yeah, turns out yeah, yeah, totally amazing.

1069
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien

1070
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,959
Speaker 1: tweet I've been enjoying at marxist in five to one three?

1071
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: Is that Dayton Ohio.

1072
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 3: The five to one three tweeted.

1073
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: Just screencap of an article that said, these entitled millennials

1074
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: are cheering for a housing market crash. Millennials are actually

1075
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: cheering for a housing market crash on Twitter so they

1076
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: can afford a home. It seems the very image of entitlement.

1077
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: And you just tweeted gaslight me, daddy, you're entitled because

1078
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: you want to be able to afford a house at

1079
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: some point in your life.

1080
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, uh huh yeah.

1081
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 3: This is like this kind of goes in line with

1082
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 3: a lot a lot of things I've heard so many

1083
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: are read more articles like millennials are actually doing better

1084
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 3: than gen X and boom yeah mm hmm. And you're like,

1085
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: just because the dollar amounts are like higher in certain respects,

1086
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 3: like I'm sorry, okay, sure, let's go on.

1087
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: At this stage after like a decade of like hyper inflation.

1088
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tried to.

1089
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: I just have a chart that I have to show

1090
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 2: my bloomer mom like once a year to remind her that,

1091
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: like where shows, Yeah, like cost of living in wages.

1092
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, see that gap, See how the gap cames growing?

1093
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: You know, she's like whoa, because every time I see her,

1094
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 2: she's like, I don't understand what people we were extended.

1095
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, it almost seems like an unbelievable reality

1096
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 3: to be in, right from your perspective, that's what?

1097
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, Well, you can find me on Twitter

1098
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can find us on Twitter

1099
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: at daily Zegeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram.

1100
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 1: We have a Facebook fan page or website daily zekeist

1101
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: dot com where we post our episodes and our footnope

1102
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: or we link off to the information that we talked

1103
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: about today's episode, as well as the song we think

1104
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: you might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you

1105
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: think people might enjoy?

1106
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just listening to this rapper from from

1107
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 3: the UK, bro jambo j I, a n b O

1108
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 3: Chinese Vietnamese British rapper with like a prime style. This

1109
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 3: this track is called monkowk Madness m O n g

1110
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 3: Kok Madness Uh and it's just dope. Get into it.

1111
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 3: Uh Jambo coming at you well.

1112
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: The Daily zeitgeis is production of by Heart Radio. For

1113
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart

1114
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1115
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: That is going to do it for us this morning,

1116
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and

1117
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all then Bye bye bye