WEBVTT - How to be White 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.040 You are listening Waiting on Reparations, a production of I 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:13.600 Heart Radio. Yo Yo Yo, you are listening to Waiting 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.759 on Reparations. My name is Dope Knife Frank, and we're 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.000 here and we're back in effect another week. It is 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.600 the second week of Black History Month. How are you 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.840 holding up and celebrating? I'm good. So one way I'm 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.560 celebrating is um posting. So the full archives of the 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.800 Black Panther newspaper are available online, and so I've been 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.200 posting just pages of it, you know, with the ones 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.559 with like cool visuals as well as like descriptions of 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.720 what they contain. So today, you know, I've posted the 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:45.960 Black Panther ten point Program. A couple of days ago, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.840 i posted about UM Huey Newton UM, one of the 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.800 founders of the Black Panthers, And so I'm just trying 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:55.960 to my best to like elevate the parts of black 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.520 history that people don't want to talk about because it 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:04.200 does not serve their political agenda, um and things like that. So, so, yeah, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.680 what about you. What I have been celebrated. I mean, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.440 this is kind of like some down the line sort 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.600 of celebration. But one of the things I'm trying to organize. 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.520 I'm trying to put together a little festival in Savannah, 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.240 like a music festival, but have it be like a 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.800 fundraiser for Stacy Abrams. What's up? Yeah, either either Stacy 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.560 Abrams or something to do with Georgia voting. One of 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.360 the two things. I'm just gonna focus around. I know, 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.959 I know. That's like I'm planning it to be around 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.080 like four you know, planning it now. So it's technically 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.480 my Black History mont celebration. You know, who's not celebrating 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:45.959 Black history a lot of it's not only been disinvited 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.240 from the cook out, like he's not even allowed to 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.880 eat barbecue. Wait, it was Joe Rogan ever really invited 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.600 to the cookout this whole that Yeah, when everything was 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.080 going down, it was one of those rare occasions where 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.040 I was on Twitter like to start my day and 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.440 just was kind of vegging out on Twitter for most 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.760 of the most of the night before in the day, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.920 so like I kind of saw all this ship happening 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.360 in real time and like for real, like first it 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.400 was the Okay, So for anybody who doesn't know, so 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.360 Joe Rogan, one of the biggest podcasters in the world. 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.480 He hosts a show called The Joe Rogan Experience. Back 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.280 in it was it was an independent podcast for years, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.840 crazy millions of listeners and and subscribers, all that whole 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.720 thing you got At this point, I'm just assuming that 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.320 everybody knows who Joe Rogan and what his podcast is. Right. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.480 So a couple of years ago he gets a deal 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.400 with Spotify for a hundred million dollars, which now makes 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.399 him a mainstream corporate entity. I don't give a funk 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:47.720 what anybody says, but um, you know, Joe Rogan's had 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:54.280 He's had problematic instances in things on his show for 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.720 a while, but it's all kind of taken ahead and 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.440 come into public eye with his COVID disinformation that he 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.120 spreads on his show, and that led to this whole 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.680 standoff with Spotify or Spotify standing by their hundred million 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.560 dollar investment. But you've got artists like Neil Young and 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.040 Jody Mitchell and others who were taking their music off 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.160 the platform and effort to not be associated with the 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:21.240 COVID misinformation. But uh SCAD graduate Savannah College of Art 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.880 and Design graduate and Grammy Award winning artists India Iri 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.480 Sook to her Instagram to kind of point out something 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.120 that I in particular had been pointing out about Joe 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.320 Rogan just amongst my friends and stuff like that in 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.360 personal conversation for years now, which is a lot of 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.800 the racist quasi Nazi ship that goes on on the 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:45.600 Joe Rogan podcast. It's dispersed enough that you know, you 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.800 could watch ten episodes in a row and not encounter it. 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.080 But when it's there, it's there, and it's they're pretty 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.560 strong and indie. A re started off by running a 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.440 montage Joe Rogan using the N word that was followed 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.280 up by a joke that he told about going to 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.920 a black neighborhood in Philly to see the movie Planet 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.160 of the Apes and a commentary about how the all 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.200 black crowd was like the Planet of the Apes, and 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.000 so on and so forth. Joe Rogan issued an apology 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.240 um for all of the cries of cancel culture, there's 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:21.360 not really any cancelation going on Spotify standing by him 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.240 saying that silencing is not the way to handle it. Um. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.680 But for the most part, it's it's just illuminated this 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.400 particular aspect of the Joe Rogan Show for the general 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.039 public for normans who weren't really paying attention, whether they 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:40.240 are supporters of his or detractors. So, um, that is 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.760 the situation as it stands. Like I said, there's not 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.360 really any consequence to be taken out of it except 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:52.200 for his apology and that, you know, the opinions are 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.960 now you know, it seems like the opinions are now 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.599 solidly formed. You know, you've either got the people who 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.560 are like, oh, I don't think that's a big deal, 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:01.720 or you've got the people who are like, hey, this 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.000 is what I've been saying. Joe Rogan has been on 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.360 this ship for a long time. And then you've got 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.800 a bunch of regular people who are now either oh, 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.279 I didn't know Joe Rogan was like that funk that guy, 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.160 or you know, the opposite swing of that pendulum. I 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.680 didn't know Joe Rogan was like that. Awesome, I'm with it. So, so, 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:24.080 what have you been thinking of this whole thing, whatever, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.400 however much of it you've been consuming. Yeah, I mean 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.279 I've long been skeptical of Joe Rogan and like the 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.840 Joe Rogan too like crypto fascist pipeline um sort of 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.800 veiled in the fact that he does have many different 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.480 kinds of people on his show, his platforming of folks 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:46.000 like Stephen Wilno, like um, even Elon Muskle's just like 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:53.400 Notisanapolis and only know of him because of It's interesting 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.800 to me that this hadn't come come out earlier, Like, 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.440 you know, if people are watching his podcast religiously and 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:02.679 he has this, you know, a million strong fan base, 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.120 how did no one bring up before now that there 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.000 were a hundred and eleven podcast where he used a 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:15.560 racial slurn, which I then think, yeah, okay, um, yeah, no, 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.320 that's all I said right now. Well, I mean, um, okay. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:24.120 So one of the biggest reason why I think it's 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.560 not even necessary that people didn't notice, but he wasn't 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:31.600 like mainstream then as big and popular as his podcast was. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:37.320 I think having that Spotify corporate stamp, Fortune five hundred 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.760 stamp on it, it now makes all of that stuff, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.560 you know, um issue for him because beforehand, I mean, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:50.840 for example, the the video of him telling the Planet 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:56.400 of the Apes joke. I saw that shipped back in surprisingly, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.719 do you know who put that out? Alex Jones was 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:00.800 the one who first put that out. Him and Joe Rogan. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.560 We're beefing. Alex Jones was like, all right, well, if 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.320 me and Joe Rogan is not gonna have the other show. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.679 Everybody thinks he's so cool, he's got a black daughter, 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.480 and listen to what he says about black people. And 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.400 then that happened in the summer of nineteen, you know, 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.000 and that's something like you see it and you you know, 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.160 a it was getting posted around, but it doesn't really 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.080 matter because ultimately it's just this dude's podcast in his 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.840 basement or in a spare room in his house that 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.240 he's doing on his own. So there is no when 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.720 you don't have like when there's no corporate entity to 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.960 pressure you know about it, then I don't know, I 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.840 think it can easily slip through the right you got. 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.400 You gotta go after the money. You can't just criticize 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.200 Joe Rogan for what he does. Anybody in the basement 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.760 can do what he does. You like he has. He 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.360 has the prominence that he does because he has the 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.080 backing of Spotify. It's the backing of huge corporations, right, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.320 and so you gotta go after the money. That makes 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.120 you think of like with the stop Pop City Um 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.160 struggle down here in Atlanta. Uh, like when they weren't 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.240 getting anywhere at Atlanta City Council, they started going for 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:06.720 the people that were funding the Atlanta Police Foundation, so um, 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.200 Coca cola, um, other organizations. Or even if you want 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.800 to think about the voter suppression bill that passed in 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.200 the state legislature. Here, I guess sometime last year, folks 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.240 are going after Delta and all of these other corporations 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.440 that were like, oh, black Lives Matter or whatever, and 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.600 then you know, bankrolling Republican campaigns to the tune of 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.720 hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so another thing that 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.800 rises it raises for me is like how unfortunate it 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.360 is but necessary to like bring their receipts. Like everyone 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:36.840 knew he was shitty for a long time. It took 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:40.640 like a comprehensive compilation of all the reasons why and 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.640 like here are the links for people to be like, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.240 you have a pretty strong case. I see that over 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.160 and over again with like anecdotal evidence versus pulling like 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.400 the actual receipts in a lot of organizing spaces where 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.959 it's like people are telling you something's wrong, but until 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.720 you find like the archival data where like the segregationist 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.480 senator was conspiring to destroy their neighborhood. Like that's when 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.120 you finally like, all right, I guess I'll do something 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.199 about it. So that also strikes me as really funny 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:10.160 about the circumstances that, right, well, um, you know, we'll 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.400 have to expand on this because it's it's uh, it's 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:19.480 opened up, you know, further conversation about um censorship and 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.559 what is censorship versus what isn't? Should Joe Rogan be silence? 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.240 Should he be removed from the platform, And I definitely 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.760 do want to dive into this stuff. We were also 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:33.920 we're supposed to talk about the NFL coaching situation, but 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.120 I think we'll save that for another day too. But 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.640 I mean, you know, before we go into what we're 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.760 talking about for the day, I do just want to 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.680 touch on that one subject. It's just if the only 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:51.080 thing that existed in this situation was the compilation of 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.120 the N word, I don't think it would be that 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.719 big of a deal. And just me personally well to 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.160 the problem, I mean, because here's the thing, right, is 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:07.280 like he gave an explanation for the N word compilation 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.720 in terms of like, oh, well, this was me using 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.440 it as a quote, and I was using I was 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:16.079 recalling it in the story. Now for me personally, it's 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.840 really not that complicated. There's twenty three n words in there, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.760 and he gave like three examples of him, you know, 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:23.760 quoting it that it's like, all right, I'm gonna need 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.560 to see like a detailed breakdown of like how each 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:28.880 of these was a quote. But besides the point, if 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.000 just for the benefit of doubt, all of those where 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.319 he's quoting a story, he's telling a story or something 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.400 like that. I mean, it makes me still not like 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.319 Joe Rogan, but it makes me ultimately not really like 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:41.439 you know what I'm saying. It's like, oh yeah, I 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.600 wasn't listening to that show anyway, you know what I'm saying. Well, 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.240 but I think the aspects of like the jokes, and 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.000 then when you further do even deeper digging and you 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.679 look into the type of people that he's platformed, that 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.240 is that's the aspect and the element of it to me, 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.600 that is like all right, now this is still you know, 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:06.360 sensor removed, that's still like a subject for discussion, But 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.920 that is the aspect of Joe Rogan that is like, oh, no, 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.240 this is serious now because like you know, you can, 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.800 you can say whatever should you want. I don't care. 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.200 It doesn't have to affect me. I don't have to 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.599 listen to it. But if you're like luring people unsuspecting 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.400 people in by like, hey, we're interviewing m M a guy, 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:30.400 a comedian, a nuclear physicist, a white supremacist, you know 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.280 what I mean, And you're doing that cycle over and 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.640 over again. And I mean I've I've have people personally 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.960 in my life who otherwise are like normal, well adjusted 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.720 left leaning people that have fallen down the Joe Rogan 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.640 crypto fashionst pipeline. It's very easy, it's not difficult at all. Well, 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.360 I think it speaks to the fact that the left 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.640 has to get better at its media game. Um, like 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:53.880 you know, we need to we have to win the conversation. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:59.040 We can't just say oh, um, like you, I guess 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:01.199 to a degree, like you shouldn't have these people on, 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.040 like I like, I don't think he should, but I 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.880 think i'd rather than like sensor him. I think we 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.040 just need to do a better job of convincing people 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.280 and creating our own pipeline to like liberatory ideas because 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.199 otherwise if this is all we have, and it's like 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.840 all you have is Joe Rogan as like a huge 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:22.160 name in podcasting, like that's partially our failure. That's true, 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.439 that's true, but it's not even you know, just personally, 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:26.959 I don't know what anybody else thinks. For me, it's 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.360 not even the platforming like people that I check out, 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:35.560 like Vosh who's a YouTuber, YouTube, twitch, political streamer, or 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.680 um even what is Homie's name? Who got fired from 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.719 CNN's Quomo Andrew Quomo, one of the quotma no no, 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.760 no no um black dude, he was a commentation Mark 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.920 Lamont Hill. Mark Lamont Hill on his channel, he's always 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.480 talking to right wingers in like these fringe like you know, 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.320 quasi alt right figures who are spewing their ship. The 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.400 difference is how you go about it. If Mark Lamont 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.120 Hill sits across from somebody and the person says, he, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.080 you know, black people have an intrinsic violent gene that 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.360 makes them more violent than the other races. That's interesting. 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.120 Oh dude, really, dude, bros, that word dude like that, 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.040 you know that's not gonna be Vosh is going to 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.320 like push back like there's ways that you can do 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.760 it where it becomes a straw man to be like, oh, 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.079 you want a silence, you don't want people to be platformed. 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.440 You're afraid of discussion, you're afraid of debate, and it's 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:36.280 like how you engage with them? Yeah, if you're engaging critically, 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.760 actually have to engage like like like for people to 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:45.600 want for the Joe Rogan stands out there, a lot 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.000 of whom are straight up Nazis and a lot of 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.280 whom are just like people who don't give a funk 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.640 about issues like this and stuff like that. But if 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.920 they if they don't want people to jump to the 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:01.920 conclusion of yo, I heard Joe Rogan said this, so 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.880 I think this about him and everything that he is, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.080 then you know it probably would have behooved Joe Rogan 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.000 over these years if like he could counter with clips 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.080 of him passionately going back at like some of these 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.280 guests that he has has on his show, because he 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.320 shouldn't be interacting with my Unapolis the same way as 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.640 he does with Cornel West if I'm supposed to think 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.240 that he's cool, yeah, or even just yeah, this like 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.080 engaging critically with both of them like instead of just 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.880 being huh, that's interesting, Oh black people skulls are like 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:37.680 con cave and commend whatever. Commended. But that's not racist. 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.400 I have supported Bernie, supported by you know, yeah you 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.480 said you might vote for him once whatever the other 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.280 thing you want to bring up about Joe Rogan, And 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.400 like I like to be hyperbolic sometimes because it's more entertaining. Um, 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.360 Like there's a level of like almost stochastic terrorism that 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:58.680 comes with uh, COVID misinformation. Um. And so like just 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.440 a couple of days ago January, a big fan of 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.760 his and friend who was you know, talking about his 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.120 show all the time on his Instagram, UM, comedian Christian 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:13.040 Cabrera UM died of COVID, you know, and often talked 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.520 in conjunction with you know, loving Joe Rogan about like 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.360 vaccine hesitancy and um it's also you know, spread a 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.440 lot of Joe Rogan's vaccine and misinformation. And now this 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.840 person is dead and so like he's a famous person, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.160 you know, he's a comedian, but how many other people 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.600 who watched his show also We're like maybe that is 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.600 sketchy and like are dead now we don't know, we 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.600 don't have those numbers, whether you want to call that 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.760 murder or whatever, whatever. I don't think that it's even 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.880 debatable that that has happened. No, it's not even debatable. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.600 It's just like there's there's no way to know the 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:55.080 impact negatively in a very literal, concrete way. But um, 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.760 we have a great on about Joe Rogan for a while, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.640 So why don't we talk about like white people that 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.280 don't suck? So Yeah, this week we had the honor 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:09.000 to interview Joan and Loki Moholland Um. Joan Um was 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.960 a freedom writer, UM whose mug shot was called one 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:16.480 of the most iconic and American history. UM. She Um, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.920 at the age of twenty three, had participated in over 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.560 fifty sent ins and demonstrations like the Freedom Rights the 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:26.920 Jackson Woolwrith set in the marchin Washington, and Um, you know, 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.920 knew some of the biggest names in the civil rights movement, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.960 from Mega Evans, Mega Evans, Fanny lew Haymer, John Lewis, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.160 Julian Bond. And so we'll be speaking with her as 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:43.200 well as her son, who has recently made a documentary 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.920 about her called an Ordinary Hero. Yeah, and he's the 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.960 executive director of the Joan Moholland Foundation. Um has actually 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.160 directed um Sello documentaries and Um wrote a book She 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.880 Stood for Freedom, Um, which was nominated for a war. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.640 So they're both very involved into this day in civil 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.399 rights struggle in their own different ways. And the somewhat 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.720 details what we're talking about with regards to art and 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.919 the role of you know, shaping the political discourse in 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:14.919 the sense that, like Joe Rogans over here, it's kind 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.600 as podcast, which itself is a form of media that 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.280 is shaping the political discourse, and Um Loki, especially as 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.960 a filmmaker, is doing the same with his work. And 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.160 we have a lot of discussion in the interview about 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.960 the role of arts in movement making. So without further ado, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.080 let's get on into it. We'll be right back with 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:42.320 that after the jump. So today I am super honored 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.720 to be joined by Joan and Loki Muholland. I will 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.639 let them introduce themselves in their own words, because the 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.440 breadth of experience they bring with them is kind of impressive. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.520 It's sort of like, yeah, there's a lot, there's a 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.760 lot going on there, but yeah, whoever, like to start 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.840 tell us a little bit about yourselves and what y'all do. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:05.360 Go on, boy, I was gonna say ladies first, but well, 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.200 my name is Loki maholl Um, I'm Jones's son. Um, 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:15.800 I'm a filmmaker, activins author, and uh yeah, we see 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:21.479 you represent over there. Yeah, Joan Mahaland I'm Loki's mama. 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.840 And Loki was after the Norse god of mischief or sidekick, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.280 and he's lived up to it. Um, I'm a Delta. 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.359 I got into a lot of good trouble back in 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:39.000 the day, and you know, freedom writer and all that 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.879 sort of stuff. Good, Yeah you are. You knew a 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.719 lot of folks that people may recognize when you know 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.800 we're studying the history of the civil rights movement. Um, 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.959 Mr Evers, Danniel Hammer play people like that. It's Fannie 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:56.480 Hammer Hamer. Oh my god. If I've been saying that 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.600 around my whole life. See, this is what we need 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.240 better civics and lack history education in schools. Because I'm 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.439 growing up, I've taught myself most well. I feel like 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.359 most of what I know as an adult, like you know, 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.680 reading online, reading books, etcetera. Because they don't really teach 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.159 you what you need to know in school. Unfortunately, word was, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.440 you know, the slaves were happy and the slave masters 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.960 were kind. Yeah. I actually have a friend who is 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.920 a professor at um University in Hartford who studies how 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.679 even back to like slavery texts from like ancient Greece, 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.280 the way that like the happy slave narrative was even 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.359 a thing then, and like how that then, you know, 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.679 factors into the way people sometimes use classics, like in 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.840 white supremacist movements to say like, oh, the purity of 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.560 the Western tradition. But yeah, like unless you unless you 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.439 really teach yourself, um, you can, yeah, get stuck with 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.120 some of these. Oh that's interesting back to the ancient 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.520 Greeks because when we had standardized testing, I think it's 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:58.919 pretty much out now in Virginia. But one of the 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.160 questions for the kids his foot, what did we get 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:06.480 from the Greeks? And you were supposed to say, you know, democracy, 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.520 voting rights, stuff like that. I said, no, no no, no, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:15.879 that's that's all. We got voting rights for free property 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:22.240 owning white men. Precisely, we got some highways. Yeah, maybe 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.000 some like column shapes, you know, like some art, but yeah, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:28.800 we're still trying to get voting rise today. And what 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.960 I'm saying, so, um, well, I'm really really excited to 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.719 have you all here today. Particularly I'm super interested in 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.480 the way that movement work manifests in the various different 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.760 kinds of things you do. And also we've got two 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:47.200 generations of people here. Um, we're doing the good work. UM. 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.399 And I think that like the idea of intergenerational like 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.520 liberation movement struggle is not when we talk about enough 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:56.840 like they got the young kids out here, like the 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.560 Sunrise Movement or etcetera. And then we study you know, 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.520 civil rights history um as if it you know, would 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.600 happened long ago, and like we don't need to be 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:11.600 marching um anymore things like that. So, um, how do 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.840 you see your work from two different generations overlapping or 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.920 diverging at certain points? Well, I say my generation got 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:25.680 rid of the segregation laws underlying racism. It's still there 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:30.720 and that's what folks need to work on. Now. Um. 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:36.200 We marched, we sat in, we went to jail, um, 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.960 you know things like that. We could sing real good, 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.760 except for me, I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.440 That the Jackson, Mississippi. The joke we had a little 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.560 joke in the movement that if the police were marching 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:54.000 on us, they just pushed Joan to the front and 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.240 she would sing loudly right in their face and they 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:03.800 would back off because I say, Okay, what is that? Yeah, yeah, backup, 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:09.240 But you're a singer two on top of everything logy yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:15.800 play guitar on Hey. Well, maybe we'll come back to 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.320 the question about like generational differences, because we're kind of 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:21.800 starting to talk about art. And that's something that I 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.639 don't understand. I don't know a lot about from my 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.040 studying of like civil rights and like other liberation movements, 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:31.119 is like what the role of art was during that era? Looky, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.200 you know, brilliant filmmaker and as I as a hip 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:37.119 hop artist, see the potential for use of that um 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.920 too spread stories that bring people into the movement and 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:44.560 educate people, etcetera. UM. But Joan, like, what what role 0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.840 did like music and film and art and stuff like 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.760 that play in in your time? Well, film want a 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.520 big deal, except you know, watching the evening news on 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:59.320 TV and UM singing. That was the backbone of the movement. 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.280 That is what gave us strength and courage to keep 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:08.280 on keeping on mhm um it was you know, songs 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.199 that were sort of adapted from the church songs and 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.320 it's it's it sounded if you weren't listening to the 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.920