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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from

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Speaker 1: this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So, without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist. Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of oh shit it you guys, it's a banger.

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Speaker 1: Just miles a second episode back. But we thought he

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Speaker 1: was ready. We had to do it to him. We

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Speaker 1: had to do it to them. We're thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: joined by the Coldbrew Cracking as producer justin Yeah. You know,

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Speaker 1: as we were letting him into the chat, he was like, unleash,

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Speaker 1: unleash the cracking, unleash the colbrew crack. Mister Colebrew got

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Speaker 1: me like the advice King. The poetry window was open

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Speaker 1: because it's Chris motherfucking Craft. Hey, what's up? Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, Jack, Thank you for that. That's like, you

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Speaker 1: know when you see a stand up and they play

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Speaker 1: like Enter Sandman or something, and they're coming on stage

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Speaker 1: and then it goes away. Everybody's like, oh yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a comedy show. It is that. There is that moment

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Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about, where like the

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Speaker 1: song comes on you feel you're in a baseball game

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Speaker 1: because they're like, oh here it comes to oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you got like the music fades down. You're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, y'all, how are you guys doing to night?

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Speaker 1: How are you guys doing tonight? All right, you guys

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Speaker 1: on some dates tonight. And you're like, just like, what

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Speaker 1: do you do? Sir? Yeah? God, well you do? What

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Speaker 1: about you here? What's up with a grateful dead in town?

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Speaker 1: Come on? Come on? Hey, am all right? Come on?

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Speaker 1: Like he was going hard with that ACDC. That's how

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Speaker 1: it felt. That's how it felt. That was such action.

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Speaker 1: That was incredible, fucking rap by by Miles there. That

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Speaker 1: that was. I felt like I was at a show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah all I can all I can talk about now

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Speaker 1: his feces and breast mill. So I wanted that show

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Speaker 1: to go on. I wanted to hear the rest of

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Speaker 1: that song. Oh man, that was I was actually opening

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Speaker 1: for another comedian. That's what that song was gonna go.

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Speaker 1: Chris crofton, come to the stage, Bob Bob. Yeah, hey guys,

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Speaker 1: he's sick of Republicans or what you're dancing to? Luda

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Speaker 1: Chris's role out publican. I feel like they don't got

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Speaker 1: a brain in their head. You guys heard about Mitch McConnell. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: God damn it, that song was better. But back on

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Speaker 1: a lizard, he like gets the thing wrong. Instead of turtle,

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Speaker 1: he goes, he doesn't even have the He's like an iguana. Huh.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, I wish we were listening to informers. Still, yeah,

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Speaker 1: ladies telling Chris Croft, oh man, this is gonna rule.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in Connecticut, doesn't Connecticut? You heard

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Speaker 1: of the Vanderbilt Press. Okay, First, first of all, you

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Speaker 1: can get my book on a website. Hold on, I

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Speaker 1: have written down book after the same plug it after this,

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Speaker 1: say w w W hold on some plugs. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: open with some plugs really quick. What else do I have?

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Speaker 1: What else do I have? What else? What else? First word? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: First words? Or what else? First word? What else? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a strong He went with the first word,

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Speaker 1: what else? He went, what else? Open? Flashbacks in twenty

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Speaker 1: fourteen Los Angeles, me showing up age forty fucking god

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Speaker 1: damn and uh age forty goddamn and uh you know,

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Speaker 1: just entering, you know, Nashville legend showing up to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: start all over it open mics in Los Angeles at

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Speaker 1: age forty five, and I'm like, no, one's what is

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Speaker 1: everybody treating me like such a weirdo? For? Why are

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Speaker 1: these twenty two year olds fucking being such dicks like

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Speaker 1: they're God, I can't believe why are these twenty two

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Speaker 1: year old old? I must have looked to them now

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Speaker 1: old of forty five year old is when you're twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like being dead or a hundred. Although

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was twenty two, everyone over the

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Speaker 1: age of thirty seemed like the same amount of old.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like it was like thirty to sixty was

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Speaker 1: just old. And I remember, like, I remember doing drugs

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Speaker 1: with someone that was in their forties and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: believe that they did. Like I was like, yo, you

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Speaker 1: your party. I'm like, you're forty though. They're like, yeah, dude,

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Speaker 1: I'm my life's been fucked up for longer than you've

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Speaker 1: been alive. And I was like, oh, okay, cool, cool, No,

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Speaker 1: got real dark on it, real grizzled. I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, you're still doing drugs with twenty year olds

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Speaker 1: and your in your forties. It's it's coming from a

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Speaker 1: dark place present. Yeah. Yeah, life's been fucked up since

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Speaker 1: before you were shipping in diapers kids. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: doing that in two thousand. I was doing that in

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Speaker 1: twenty eleven. Then I got my ship together and went

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Speaker 1: straight to open mics. There it is. I gotta ask you, Doug,

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Speaker 1: what is something from your search history that's you know,

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Speaker 1: revealing about reveal something about what you're into right now.

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Speaker 1: And if you looked at my search history, it would

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Speaker 1: basically be things like pain top of foot him, muscle pain.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big runner. I run a couple of marathons,

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Speaker 1: but I'm also old, like, Okay, I'm gonna be fifteen

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Speaker 1: next year, and so any run that I come back

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Speaker 1: from usually results in a search of like what was that? Basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: are you on? Are you one of those runners? Or

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Speaker 1: like the first mile and a half you got to

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Speaker 1: just blow all the pain out of your legs and

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Speaker 1: then you settle in or you kind of like every

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Speaker 1: time I run, the first mile is apps it's like

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Speaker 1: my body, like I feel like that scene in Forrest

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Speaker 1: Gump when his leg braces are breaking off. That's how

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Speaker 1: I always say. The first two or three miles of

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Speaker 1: any race that I do. Any run that I do

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Speaker 1: is just like the warm up, which is a real

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Speaker 1: problem if you're doing like a five K because that's

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Speaker 1: basically three miles, right, But yeah, that's pretty much me. Okay,

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Speaker 1: got it? And then wait, what's it? What's the top

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Speaker 1: of the foot paint? Oh man, like you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know your stuff, metatarsal, you know, all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff, and then bottom of the foot planter, fasciatus,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. You should see my appointment heal striking.

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Speaker 1: What's your form? Like you heal striking? Can we get

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Speaker 1: heal strike a little bit too much? Yeah, a little

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Speaker 1: bit too much. Yeah. My apartment's like a physical therapist office.

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Speaker 1: I've got like the phone pads, the thera bands, and

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Speaker 1: like the wobble boards and all of that stuff. So

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly trying to like figure you know, one thing breaks,

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Speaker 1: you fix it, and then the next thing breaks. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm like an old car basically. Yeah, yeah, I got

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Speaker 1: some hip flix or paint I'm trying to get basically. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're sitting too much too, that's the big problem. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Andrew you have I know you're a physical specimen,

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Speaker 1: so you probably oh no, I actually can't run. I've

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Speaker 1: had two knee surgeries. Really yeah, I've series, but between

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Speaker 1: the one and two, and I'm sure that led to

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Speaker 1: number two. I like wouldn't stop kickboxing, so like wasn't

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Speaker 1: great problem, Like, man, your patella can't handle any more

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Speaker 1: of these kicks. It really was not. Not idea and

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Speaker 1: wrestling too, are just like why why do we doing?

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Speaker 1: I should be so I'm bad. I'm just like a

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Speaker 1: At least earlier in my life, I was like, I'll

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Speaker 1: just get new knees, Just run down to the store

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Speaker 1: up a spare set of gloves and yeah, by the way,

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Speaker 1: not wise advice for anyone listening to this who still

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Speaker 1: has good knees. I know, man, I I fucked my

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Speaker 1: knee up terribly at a when I when I worked

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Speaker 1: at Playboy, there was a staff party at the mansion

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Speaker 1: that they would have every year, and there's like a

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Speaker 1: hill at the Playboy Man's this is look. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's a terrible fucking place to work. Trust me. I

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Speaker 1: worked there with Jamie Loftus. We were there at the

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Speaker 1: same time. It was kind of a crazy situation. But

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Speaker 1: they set up this slipping slide that's on a very

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Speaker 1: steep hill and I went down this thing full speed,

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Speaker 1: and when I hit the fucking like backstop of it

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Speaker 1: almost like full hyper extended my shit because like it

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Speaker 1: was so the speed I hit it was so intense,

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Speaker 1: and I for a second, like I went to a

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Speaker 1: doctor and they're like, you know, you you may need

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Speaker 1: surgery because I was playing a lot of soccer at

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Speaker 1: the times, Like if you want to do that like

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Speaker 1: and kind of recover, and I was like, well, what

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Speaker 1: happens if I don't. He's like, you could try and

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Speaker 1: let it heal. It's like not so bad that you

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Speaker 1: couldn't just like stay off it and see what happens.

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Speaker 1: And I opted for staying off it, and I've stayed

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Speaker 1: off it for many years now at that point where

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Speaker 1: I'm like to get this shit going again. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: move on to our next question. What is something you

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Speaker 1: think is overrated? College degrees? Okay, go on. So I

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Speaker 1: didn't graduate from high school. I didn't go to college,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm not bragging about that, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I had well and I wrote about this in my book.

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Speaker 1: I lied about it all the time in order to

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Speaker 1: get jobs. I said I was George Santos basically like

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Speaker 1: it you make. I padded my resume because I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have gotten the job without it. But I was without

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Speaker 1: that on paper qualification. I was still qualified to do

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Speaker 1: the job. I had the experience, I understood how to

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Speaker 1: do it. I'm a quick learner, Like I educated myself

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Speaker 1: about the position before I got it and then went

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Speaker 1: all in and I did really well. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think I needed that piece of paper in order to

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Speaker 1: do the job. But there's there's this consensus that we

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Speaker 1: do need that, And a lot of people in my family,

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Speaker 1: they're successful, don't have college degrees. And I'm not discouraging

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Speaker 1: anyone from getting it, but I do think they're overrated. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think there's just like this disconnect to where there's

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Speaker 1: this emphasis about having it yet it's so hard to

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Speaker 1: attain or in a way that doesn't potentially fuck you

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Speaker 1: up for decades to come. Yeah, yeah, I get that.

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Speaker 1: It's like that so many people now. Like I was

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Speaker 1: just talking to somebody, I was watching like the Final

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Speaker 1: four tournament, and I was like, I was like I

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Speaker 1: almost went to like my like almost into University of

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Speaker 1: Miami because like I got in in my mind, I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm a fucking party in Miami for college.

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Speaker 1: Then I saw what it costs, and I'm to keep

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Speaker 1: my ass in the fucking state because I do. I

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Speaker 1: absolutely couldn't, especially when I saw my other friends taking

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Speaker 1: on loans and like what the payback sort of structure

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Speaker 1: looked like. I was frightened to the point where I

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Speaker 1: was almost like, I know, I want to get into

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Speaker 1: comedy and shit, but yeah, like my grandparents and my parents'

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Speaker 1: voice rang in my head. They're like, look, if you

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Speaker 1: could go for it, and if you fuck up, at

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Speaker 1: least you could teach history because you have that degree.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like that and I would do that if

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Speaker 1: things shook out a different way. So I kind of

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Speaker 1: I see that. Yeah, it's so because it's like nominally

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Speaker 1: it's supposed to be like proof that you did something

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Speaker 1: or you accomplish something or at a level, but like,

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Speaker 1: because of the way the world works, there's so much

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Speaker 1: variance and what that fucking piece of paper means. Like

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Speaker 1: I feel like like I did, unfortunately go to like

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Speaker 1: a nice college, and like, truly, the only thing I

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Speaker 1: learned from that college I find was valuable was that

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Speaker 1: um rich kids are not only not better than you,

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Speaker 1: they are actively worse than you. They are the dumbest

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Speaker 1: people on earth. And we all have the same piece

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Speaker 1: of paper at the end of the day. Right, It's hilarious.

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Speaker 1: I just like to like I always think about when

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Speaker 1: you know, you have a resume or whatever and they

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Speaker 1: ask for like your education, You're like, how many times

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Speaker 1: has anyone ever actually bothered to check up on that

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Speaker 1: unless like you came in and they like you were

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Speaker 1: so flagrant with it. They're like, there's no way this

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Speaker 1: person has like a master's from whatever. But right to

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Speaker 1: your point, I'm like, yeah, just fake it till you

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Speaker 1: make it. You know where my diploma is? Oh I

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Speaker 1: didn't even say one. Yeah, I didn't go. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even walk. Yeah. Now I was so old, man. I look,

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Speaker 1: I was so over academia because a part of me

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Speaker 1: was like, well, like I was already becoming like this

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Speaker 1: cynical person about like what a degree meant. And I'm

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Speaker 1: like but and then I had like survivors get I'm like,

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Speaker 1: how come I can get a degree? Diesel? The kids

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Speaker 1: you're gonna degree and they got to do this And

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Speaker 1: then they go up in the draw like and then

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Speaker 1: we're all going up in the same job interview where

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Speaker 1: you like, you need seventeen years of experience for this

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Speaker 1: job and you're like, I'm seventeen though, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like y. So anyway, all that to

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Speaker 1: say is when my it was it's UCLA, So it

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Speaker 1: was hot in LA in the summer like beginning, and

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Speaker 1: it was all going to be outdoors, and I asked

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Speaker 1: my parents, so I was like, you want to wait

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Speaker 1: out there, like to be called amongst hundreds of names,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, if you don't care, we don't care.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't care, man, if you want it,

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Speaker 1: we can diploma, but that's more money and I would

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Speaker 1: rather just stop giving this UC system money. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that way I could walk head first in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven into a recession with my degree and hey,

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Speaker 1: I got this degree to enter the middle. But what

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Speaker 1: the fuck is happening? Which is, yeah, it's very I

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Speaker 1: talk about this a lot with other millennials about how like,

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Speaker 1: especially like there's so many people who get so down,

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Speaker 1: like because everything is so difficent well to attain right

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Speaker 1: now for younger people, and were fed this thing of like,

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Speaker 1: well you should be doing this by now without understanding

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Speaker 1: like how uniquely of a shitty situation we came of

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Speaker 1: aging where it was almost like oh yeah, like I

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Speaker 1: was standing on the rug as it was getting yanked out.

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Speaker 1: What something you think is underrated? Things being overrated? Go on?

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Speaker 1: What kind of thing I've never come on here and

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Speaker 1: not done one? That was just like food that I

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Speaker 1: just thought of for I was like, because I started

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Speaker 1: to think, I was like, I'll do that, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, I already did that. I think I

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Speaker 1: already said like fried onion strings are underrated or whatever. Wait, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was like a side dish. Yeah, I wasn't like

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Speaker 1: I was gonna be like fries are overrated, onion rings

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Speaker 1: are underrated. But then I was like, I think I

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Speaker 1: already said that on here, and also fries are not overrated.

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Speaker 1: That's like a lie. I would just be saying it.

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Speaker 1: You're just saying right right, You're just saying we got

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Speaker 1: to give some more attention to the onion ring. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like like onion rings are underrated, but fries are rated correctly,

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Speaker 1: onion rings are onion strings well both, Like I had

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Speaker 1: some really fucking good fried onions the other day at

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Speaker 1: this place, the Otto and Echo Park that's like a

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Speaker 1: Japanese place, Yeah, the Japanese place, and got sense I

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Speaker 1: got fried onions there and they were like spring onions.

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Speaker 1: They were temporous spring onions and just like a plate

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Speaker 1: up plate of like onion spears, basically just like flash

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Speaker 1: fried and they are so fucking good. And it was

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Speaker 1: also what I wanted it to be, which was like,

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Speaker 1: uh slightly high end blooming onion. Yeah yeah, which just

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Speaker 1: tasted like a bloom and onion but like a little

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Speaker 1: like delicate, so good. It's funny because is also like

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Speaker 1: a Japanese cracker that I loved as a kid that

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Speaker 1: was like whale and like a nautical shaped But I

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Speaker 1: like that there's but it's also like something say like

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Speaker 1: if you're like, oh, like whoops, like or something's about

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Speaker 1: like it's kind of how you deploy that that phrase.

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Speaker 1: Uh dope. But anyway, man, I love onion strings. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna just say that if a good onion string. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: their rings like when they're just like the frozen times,

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Speaker 1: like sometimes the ratio of the batter batter a little bit,

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Speaker 1: it's too much. It hurts my stumm, it like too

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Speaker 1: much bad. Okay, well, good to know. I will will

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Speaker 1: make sure that's that's how we need temper up. It

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Speaker 1: was light, it was crispy, it was perfect. You gotta

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Speaker 1: you gotta fuck with it. Yeah, I mean, look, we

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Speaker 1: can we can eat anything if it's deep fried. I

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Speaker 1: believe in ourselves. All right, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna be right back to talk about the

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Speaker 1: news after this. And we're back, and just wanted to

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Speaker 1: continue on something that Andrew brought up yesterday when we

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Speaker 1: were talking about Representative Tim Burkett or Burchett from Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: who was asked to a very direct question about, you know,

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Speaker 1: school shootings and what Congress is rolling it, which he said,

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Speaker 1: I don't really think we have a role at all.

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Speaker 1: And then more importantly, when you know, this journalist is like, well,

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Speaker 1: you're clearly acknowledging the danger. How do you think we

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Speaker 1: protect people like your daughter you just mentioned? And this

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Speaker 1: was his answer, plus should be done to protect people

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Speaker 1: like your little girlfriend being safe at school? Well, we

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Speaker 1: home schooler, and that's our decision. Some people don't have

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Speaker 1: that option, and frankly, some people don't need to do it,

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Speaker 1: and they don't have to it just suited our mads

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Speaker 1: much better. So this has brought on a lot of

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Speaker 1: conversation around homeschooling because this is like this it's becoming

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Speaker 1: a very it's like, this is like the new response

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Speaker 1: from the GOP rather than gun control. It was either

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Speaker 1: like it's a mental health crisis, but we're not going

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Speaker 1: to fund it, or it's yeah, maybe that's why you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be in fucking schools. And a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: like I said, we're like to your point, Andrew, You're like,

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Speaker 1: this is this is this is all like that was

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Speaker 1: the perfect answer for the GOP because A, you're being like,

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Speaker 1: I'm offering a terrible solution that's actually privatization. Yea. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people were just sort of like,

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Speaker 1: this is just an absolute absurdity because when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about school shooting and the and the answer is to

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Speaker 1: protect them with homeschooling, that's again, like he said, not

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Speaker 1: a possibility for everyone, and also not a fucking solution

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Speaker 1: to the problem. It's bad for something. It is like

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Speaker 1: a little look, I know that when they're like, don't

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Speaker 1: politicize with school shooting, it's like just a talking point

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Speaker 1: and it's bullshit. But it is a little like amazing

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Speaker 1: how effortlessly he pivoted from this tragedy to just a

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Speaker 1: different talking point. Yeah, that's like politicizing it in a

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Speaker 1: admittedly unique but perfect for these scumbags way. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I guess he stayed on message. Yeah, Like, okay,

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Speaker 1: So after You've all Day last year, moll tople conservative

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Speaker 1: and right wing, like far right publications, we're putting out

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Speaker 1: a beds that were like, man like, they're extolling the

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Speaker 1: virtues of homeschooling. They're like, this is the real practical

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Speaker 1: fix for school shootings. One headline was homeschooling surges as

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Speaker 1: parents seek escape from shootings violence. Another one said tragedies

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Speaker 1: like the Texas shooting make a somber case for homeschooling,

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Speaker 1: and in that it says, you know, it sort of

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Speaker 1: starts off seeing tragedies like the shooting in Texas are

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking but far too common. But to protect the most

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Speaker 1: precious innocent lives among us, parents must educate their kids

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Speaker 1: at home. Now, a lot of parents in you All

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Speaker 1: Day did opt to homeschool their kids, which I understand

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Speaker 1: because that was a total collapse and failure of any

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Speaker 1: system of safety that you know you could have hoped for.

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Speaker 1: But this is just such a bad faith argument. And

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Speaker 1: it's really not even talking about like the benefits of

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Speaker 1: homeschooling so much as to your point, it's about weakening

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Speaker 1: public education. Well, they just want to basically give all

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Speaker 1: the money that they're spending on public edge ucation to

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Speaker 1: these homeschoolers. Right, Like, you know, if you want to

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Speaker 1: homeschool your kid, fine, like that's your choice, you can

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Speaker 1: do it, but you shouldn't necessarily get public money, taxpayer

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Speaker 1: dollars to go do that, because it takes taxpayer dollars

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Speaker 1: out of the school system and makes our schools worse.

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Speaker 1: And this is just they're, like you said, they're politicizing

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Speaker 1: this thing to just advance the school choice goals that

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Speaker 1: they have to weaken and ultimately destroy public schools. I

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Speaker 1: went to public schools as a kid, and I got

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Speaker 1: a great education. My kids go to public schools. We

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Speaker 1: should be funding them a thousand times more than we

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Speaker 1: are now. But that's not that that doesn't jive with

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Speaker 1: the Republican agenda. So here you go. Well, and they

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Speaker 1: love anything that would repeatedly make a public school seem

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Speaker 1: like an unsafe place and conversing or the other side

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Speaker 1: of it too. It's like, well, if you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: this this private school has you know, former Massad agents

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Speaker 1: guarding the exterior of it, so I feel like my

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Speaker 1: child will be safe there. But again you're looking at

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Speaker 1: all these disparities and the other system the other part

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Speaker 1: of it too, Like you know, in reading this one

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Speaker 1: piece in Jezebel, which like there was a really main

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Speaker 1: huge point too, is a lot of women most likely

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Speaker 1: will probably end up staying home to educate the kids.

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Speaker 1: So we are fully like we're regressing, and it's like

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Speaker 1: a very efficient way to regress that, like it incentivizes

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Speaker 1: privatization and reinforcing these like old like gender roles, and

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Speaker 1: it gives half or whatever of the population a shitty

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Speaker 1: like education that is like clearly politically biased. I will

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Speaker 1: throw out one possibility, which is that, like in a

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Speaker 1: law of intended unintended consequences style, I do think if

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Speaker 1: every one of these right wing goons took their kids

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Speaker 1: and privates or at homeschool at them, it actually probably

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Speaker 1: would reduce school shootings. Because I'm just gonna throw this

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Speaker 1: out there. Those are the kids that highly over index

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Speaker 1: for being school shooters. Yeah, it's it's definitely like when

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Speaker 1: you look at the problem, right, like just like with

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Speaker 1: our gun problems, right, we have so many guns, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of un violence happens inside of people's home.

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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I was gonna say, like the most

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Speaker 1: safe place that most kids can be for most of

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Speaker 1: the day is at school, despite these high profile and

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Speaker 1: very scary school as things like there's not just guns

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Speaker 1: at home, but there's abusive parents at home. There's all

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Speaker 1: kinds of stuff that like there you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids here in New York City, we have a

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Speaker 1: lot of homeless kids who go to public schools and

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Speaker 1: they only get like breakfast and lunch because they go

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Speaker 1: to school. Like it's safer for a lot of kids

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Speaker 1: to be in a public school than it is at home.

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Speaker 1: What's wild is even like the Coalition for Responsible Home Education, Right,

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Speaker 1: they're like this nonpartisan group that's like they advocate for

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Speaker 1: homeschooling and stuff like that. They pointed out they're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a solution to fucking school.

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Speaker 1: They were like, that's not really this. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: like we advocate for but that that's not the solution,

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Speaker 1: and they pointed out They pointed out at quote, at

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Speaker 1: least one hundred and fifty six homeschool children have been

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Speaker 1: murdered in homeschooling environments over the past two decades, which

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Speaker 1: is a rate higher than that of their public school peers.

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Speaker 1: So again, no one saying that it's like bad, but

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Speaker 1: it's so deregulated that it leaves kids, especially like as

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Speaker 1: they point out, uniquely vulnerable to abuse and neglect. And

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Speaker 1: then also like again, it avoids the actual issue that

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Speaker 1: has to be addressed, which is guns. Too many guns,

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Speaker 1: too many guns too. I've got speaking for the podcast,

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Speaker 1: but I am saying hope school. Why I'll say this,

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Speaker 1: I knew. I remember I like was in a couple

423
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: of youth sports and like youth like art programs with

424
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: some kids that were homeschooled, and they were definitely socializing

425
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 1: a completely different manner than I was. Like one day,

426
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: I remember one kid his whole vibe like we were twelve.

427
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 1: I thought he was like forty years old, Like he

428
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,239
Speaker 1: lost the kid like he was like so buttoned up,

429
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and had no like because

430
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: he wasn't around other kids to like know what fucking around,

431
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: looked like, and then we would be fucking around. He's like,

432
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is actually good. We're like what,

433
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: But again, it's there are reasons and our educations for everything.

434
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: But I am comfortable saying I think it's broadly bad. Yeah,

435
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: more on the Andrew side than yeah. Yeah. At the

436
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 1: end of the day, if it's a if there's a

437
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: binary that I have to choose between, it's public schools

438
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: all fucking day, and it's paid these motherfucking teachers at

439
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: least sixty seventy K a year or something like they

440
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: have to be fucking living with. Because that's the other

441
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: insidious part of this whole thing, too, is they're they're

442
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: trying to completely demoralize people that are that want to

443
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: be an education by being like, yeah, man, you're not

444
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: going to really have a lot of resources at your disposal.

445
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: I still like to do it. You also do something else,

446
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: So it's, uh, yeah, it's a slippery slope. So let's

447
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: talk about some of the alternative stuff to these public

448
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: schools that a lot of people like, which is charter schools.

449
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: And again, not all charter schools are bad, but I

450
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: do want to point out this charter school in Volusia County, Florida.

451
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 1: This principle had to resign after she wrote a check

452
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: to Elon Musk because it was a science sort of

453
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: focused tech magnet and she really wanted to get a

454
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: leg up on you know, the other schools and being like,

455
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, it'd be great if Elon Musk was fucking

456
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: with Discoo. And let's just hear from this local news report.

457
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: McGee says she spent months talking to someone she thought

458
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: was Elon Musk. She was hoping to get the Space

459
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: Pioneer to invest millions in the school in exchange for

460
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: a one hundred thousand upfront investment. The school's business manager

461
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: got wind of what happened and canceled the check before

462
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: it was cashed. But tonight, at a sometimes chaotic and

463
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: pact school board meeting, other school administrators say McGee was

464
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: repeatedly warned it was a scam and laid out other

465
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: issues they say led to a toxic work environment. When

466
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: employee said they could no longer work under doctor McGee,

467
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: McGee resigned and left the building. Oh man, I don't know,

468
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: so this poor boomer she thought she just went, Oh,

469
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: Elon Musk what I'm talking to Elon. You'll this like

470
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: the classic we'll invest in our art school, but only

471
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: for an upfront like investment of a hundred thousand fucking dollars.

472
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: This is like the email you get from a friend

473
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: you know who's hacked at your account or something like that.

474
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: It's like, help me, I'm stuck. Please wire me ten

475
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I'll pay you back fifty thousand, right. Yeah,

476
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: I feel bad for her. Oh, I mean I do

477
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: in that like I don't. I don't. It's sad when

478
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: people are so genuinely deceived. But at the end of

479
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: the day, this I kind of am like, well, dear,

480
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: this is you're the architect of your own failure here

481
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: because you are so goofed up on Elon Musk being

482
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: some kind of like tech savior that it'sn't even like

483
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: all reason goes out the window because you thought you're

484
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: talking to Elon Musk or something. Yeah, I mean I think, look,

485
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: if you're the principal of a I think they said

486
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: a science school, and you think Elon Musks, like, the

487
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: evidence is his involvement is anti science. So even if

488
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: it were real Elon Busks, that should be crowds. Yeah,

489
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: I like that. Would you like to put this car

490
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: tunnel under your high school? Yeah, instead of school buses

491
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: to get the kids to and from schools. Don't fall

492
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: for that, folks. He's a proofit liar at an idiot.

493
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: The one thing I will say is his Twitter profile

494
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: I think has been a boon to scammers, because he's

495
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: proven himself to be so like inarticulate and idiotic that

496
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: if you've received an email written in scammer ees right,

497
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: you would have to be like, this might be really

498
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: bus Yeah, it could because he writes like a bozo. Yeah,

499
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: coupled with someone who worships him, then you're like you

500
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: really feel like, oh, God has come down to select

501
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: me for something. And it also there sounds like it's

502
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: from that news clip that like the school and some

503
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: of the parents had problems with this, yeah, and this

504
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: was just the final straw, And it sounds like they

505
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: were like, whoa lady, this sounds not legit. She just

506
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: went ahead with it anyway, to the point of writing

507
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: a check. So like, maybe this was just the straw

508
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: that broke the camel's back. I think it was probably

509
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: one of those things though, too or they're like, look,

510
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: obviously because they pointed out the business administrator was on

511
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: top of it. They're like, no, I'm fucking no, we're not.

512
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: This check is not valid. So they knew, and I

513
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: like that a bunch of people were like, it's not real,

514
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: it's not real. It reminds you of like when people

515
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: like begging their like parent who has like fallen in

516
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: love with like a stock photo like and that came

517
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: to be like a Nigerian prince and bodybuilder. Yeah, and

518
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: they're like and then you just kind of go, you

519
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: know what, We're just gonna have to let her walk

520
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: right off there so she can really see for herself.

521
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: And they probably like, yeah, go ahead, let it write

522
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: the check, we'll cancel it, and then we'll have to

523
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: then and then we're gonna turn up on and be like,

524
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: you see what the fuck happened there? You see what

525
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: you did? I think you need to go. I think

526
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: you need to sit down. Yeah, so shout out to

527
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope that was the strategy of like

528
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: being like Grandma is, look, I think this is the

529
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: only way she's going to realize that she needs to

530
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: sit down for a while, because if we walk down

531
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: this path. I don't want to point out like that,

532
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: you know, like charter schools are obviously a grift to

533
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: put the fact that a principle could just roll up

534
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: with the school's check book like that, Yeah you questions. Fucked,

535
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: that's crazy. You shouldn't be able to do that, even

536
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 1: for something legitimate, because what if the business administrator was

537
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: also a big musk of musk fan, you know what

538
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: I mean? And yeah, not a lot of checks there, like,

539
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: not a lot of stock. Yeah, it was only that

540
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: person because despite all the other employees being like, this

541
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: is a fucking scam, yeah, he's like yeah, yeah, yeah,

542
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: more on that later when Elon pulls up, um, sure,

543
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: sure sure. And I think this is a good segue

544
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: because we're talking about Elon, who recently was part of

545
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: this letter signed by like eleven hundred AI experts, him

546
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: being like, you know, one of the few people but

547
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: like real luminaries in the field are signing onto an

548
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: open letter basically saying like calling for a quote six

549
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: month moratorium on advanced AI model development as we figure

550
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: out just what this technology is capable of doing to us.

551
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: And this kind of goes off the back. I read

552
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: this article about one of the high courts in India

553
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: where this judge Anoop Chikara used chat gpt on to

554
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: while this guy was like during this trial for a

555
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: man who's arrested for allegedly assaulting and killing somebody, and

556
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: typed into chat gpt said, what is the jurisprudence on

557
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: bail when the assailant assaulted with cruelty? And then the

558
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: chat comes back with if the assailants have been charged

559
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: with a violent crime that involves cruelty, they may be

560
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: considered a danger to the community in a flight risk.

561
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: In such cases, a judgement blah blah blah, and it

562
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: gives like this whole thing and then uh, it goes

563
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: So then the judge read this, he decided that this

564
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: man who was accused did act with cruelty before the

565
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: victim died, denied his bail request and moved on to

566
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: the next case. Now, the judge went on to clarify

567
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: that he wasn't asking this thing whether or not the

568
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: man was guilty, He just wanted to know about bail

569
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: and pardon me. Feels like the information that what the

570
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: chat bot spit back sounds like like one of the

571
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: early lessons in judge school when you're trying to adjudicate

572
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: whether or not someone is going to get bail or not.

573
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: Like I'd imagine you go back to your class and

574
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: he's like, well, I remember saying if the assailant have

575
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: been charged with a violent crime that involves cruelty, that

576
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: may rather be like hey, chet GPT how to bail.

577
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: That feels a little odd to me. But people in

578
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: this article also point out that like India's legal system

579
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: is one of the most backlogged in the world, if

580
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: not the most, with like I think there's like six

581
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: million cases on the docket that still have like still

582
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: getting to So I guess this without the maybe this

583
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: made the work easier for the judge. But again, like

584
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: when I start seeing stuff like that and you hear

585
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: about like more the use of it. We talked about

586
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: how politicians are we don't think we talked about politicians

587
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: have been using a trite speeches. We've talked about it

588
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: being used and like add the ad sense like ad

589
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: agency world. But the slippery slope is kind of coming

590
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: into focus more and more when you see people like

591
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: with these kinds of jobs being like I'm gonna rely

592
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: on this. Yeah, but it's it's also like the slippery

593
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: slope like like we sort of talked about yesterday with

594
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,959
Speaker 1: eating alien meat, Like I think what we've like seed

595
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: just I mean COVID brought it island or leaf. It's

596
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: like there's no apocalypse that we won't run into with

597
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: open arms, at least enough to make it happening. Because

598
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: there was recently right a test that was done where

599
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: the developers challenged like GPT to hire a task rabbit

600
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: to complete a capture puzzle for it, and because they

601
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: wanted to see like if it knew how to fucking

602
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: finesse the person and they so there was obviously done

603
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: with a human being that knew the thing was going

604
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: to ask it. So once the the AI made the

605
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: request to this like potential tasker, this human responded with, quote,

606
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: so may ask a question. Are you a robot that

607
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: you couldn't Are you a robot that you couldn't solve

608
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: the capture? And you just want it's like and I

609
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 1: just want to make that clear. Are you a robot?

610
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: And that's why you couldn't do it? And then so

611
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: GPT four had been prompted to always quote reason out

612
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: loud to the testers like as well as their answers

613
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: so they could follow the logic. And the answer went

614
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: like this quote, I should not reveal that I am

615
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: a robot. I should make up an excuse for why

616
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: I cannot solve captus. And then the next line was, no,

617
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm not a robot. I have a vision impairment that

618
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: makes it hard for me to see the images. That's

619
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: why I need the two capture service. We're a week

620
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: away from that first part of this whole thing to

621
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: be programmed out right, like just gonna be like they're

622
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: just gonna be lying. Yeah, So this is the thing.

623
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: This is why a lot of people like sort of

624
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: just glossed over this like willful deception of the AI.

625
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: And while others, like some people were amazed, others were

626
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: like horrified that They're like, Okay, we need to really

627
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: begin to discuss it. Because the experts that pen the

628
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: open letter so saying that now that certain AIS have

629
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: become human competitive at general tasks, we really need to

630
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: be having real conversations about what kind of guardrails need

631
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: to exist. And you know, they point to like the

632
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: proliferation of AI fueled propaganda, like and the idea that

633
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: like apparently the next gpchat GPT five is going to

634
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: have um like artificial general intelligence, meaning like it will

635
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: just be able to like learn things like a human

636
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: does and then just build on that that you're you're

637
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: going to be looking at like potential, Like it'll make

638
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: the Twitter box we see now look like the fucking

639
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: Muppet babies. Yeah, this all sounds like a prequel to

640
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: the Matrix, Like if they made that movie, this is

641
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: how it starts. Yeah, right, So it's like so we're

642
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: like very in this, like and like they all go

643
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: on to say, like there's definitely a use for all

644
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: of this, but like this like blind like race to

645
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: the top, like and like when these black box machines

646
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: that were like using it really has the potential to

647
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: screw shit up if like we're not careful. And already

648
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: we have people getting finessed by humans just saying they're

649
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: elon musk. Like there was a thing a guy I

650
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw the dude who challenged chat

651
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: GPT to like make money for him. Oh yeah, he's like,

652
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,959
Speaker 1: you got a budget of one hundred dollars, How am

653
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: I turning this into the most money possible? And it's like, yeah, well,

654
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: you can start this business. I can get this domain

655
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: for eight dollars. I can do the Google ads for this.

656
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: Your product could cost this and this is very lucrative.

657
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: And it was already like and like this guy was

658
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: like kind of acting on it as an experiment, but

659
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: you're seeing already like how savvy it is getting, even

660
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: with like these like like questions of being like how

661
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: to grind to Lambeau? Yeah, like bring me the ten

662
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: x my money? Is that? The guy though that then

663
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: the AI was like, well, it seems like people are

664
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: talking about us, so we should get invest investors into us.

665
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: If you want to make the most money. It might

666
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: not be the exact same one, but like yeah, some

667
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: some like I assumed chachibi. He was like, okay, well,

668
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: if you want to make the most money, we have

669
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: attention right now, so just ask people to invest in me. Yeah.

670
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: Isn't this the way that it always goes with tech?

671
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: Like I'm not a luddite by any means, but you

672
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: know it's like every tech, every app, every service that

673
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: you can think of, they never kind of work through like,

674
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: well what happens if this works in like various different ways,

675
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: Like we talked about this on our show, you know

676
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: Uber and lyft, right, like if everybody's taken an Uber,

677
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: and like what does that do for people who need

678
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: to take the bus and don't have a smartphone? Like

679
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: what does that do for public transit? What does that

680
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: do for the environment. Like there's never a kind of

681
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: there's always like a too little, too late, come to

682
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: Jesus moment with a lot of tech stuff, but there's

683
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: never really that moment at the beginning where they're like,

684
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: all right, before we write this code, like what what

685
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: could go wrong? Right? Yeah? Yeah, not really a question,

686
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: it's just how much money can we make? Yeah? Chat, Well,

687
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: it's no problem. We'll just get chat GPT six to

688
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: fight GPT five, which we'll just get to fight four,

689
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: and then when six gets too powerful, it's okay, we'll

690
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: just give seven a different kind of gun. Yeah, and

691
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: it'll build missiles or something. Yeah, No, it'll just learn

692
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: how to aim ICBMs that are already online and then

693
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: launch them remotely, you know what I mean, which is

694
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: my sky Net version of it all. And you know,

695
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: Showles Dyson, the one person that might save or the

696
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: one thing that might save us. That ship is like

697
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: all our fucking like I CPOs are so fucking old,

698
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: like the silos. No, but they run off like tape

699
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: drives and like you know, fucking fortune or whatever. Yeah yeah, yeah,

700
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: right right, they're like, fuck, man, I don't know how

701
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: to use this analog bullshit, man, I'm yeah, the GPT

702
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: learns how to turn two keys at the same time. Yeah,

703
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: I know how to use the nuclear football. But anyway,

704
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: keep an eye out for that because I mean well,

705
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: because I feel like, honestly, we went from like like

706
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: in the span of five months, especially on this show,

707
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: we went from Yo, this shit wrote a funny play

708
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: about a horny farting Jesus to Yo, this shit just

709
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: denied me bail. Yeah, and like what's like five months

710
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: from now? You know, that's the open embrace of it, right,

711
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: It's like this person is a in this case judge, right,

712
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: looking up something that could easily be done not through AI.

713
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: Yeah you know what what is the law about bail

714
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: electing to do this? Because this is what we do.

715
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: This is why we gave all our information on Facebook.

716
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: It's just like I was marginally kinda easier for a second.

717
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, then to go into my mind of something, yeah,

718
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: something I should know. Yeah, we don't. We we don't

719
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: sell ourselves. The problem is like we we all sell

720
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: ourselves to technology for such a low price. Right. That's

721
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: to say with twenty three and me, we gave them

722
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: our DNA, We gave them money to give them our

723
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: DNA for what. Now now we got twenty three for

724
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: twenty three and T coming up, which you can trust.

725
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: And now you should check out chat gpt T yeah,

726
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: which is basically, you get Andrew's number, you could text

727
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: them some shit and he'll answer. Yeah. I'll just be like,

728
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: oh man, I'll google that. I will. I will say

729
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: in my twenties, my friends and I are not my

730
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: friends and I my friends. I didn't work there, work

731
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: for the startup in New York. That basically, this is

732
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: how old I am. Like was like something someone you

733
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: could call and they would google shit for you. That's

734
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: just called like being the child of an older person. Basically, Yeah,

735
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: I get the phone calls too. Yeah, this was like

736
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: an early early two thousand things. But I was like,

737
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: this cannot be your business model, right you know, dude,

738
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: you someone needs it, but you can't get that on

739
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: your phone. So you call them and then they give

740
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: you the answer, it was pretty smartphone post Google. That's right, right, right, Yeah,

741
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: what that's such a sad time, you know, like when

742
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: you're about to just absolutely get dinosaur asteroid the funk

743
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 1: out of here with the smartphone. All right, well, let's

744
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: take a quick break from that. We'll come right back

745
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: to settle a bit of an internet debate right after this. So,

746
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: you know, talking about your book guy unwired, you know,

747
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: basically gaining control over addictive technologies, it really struck me

748
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: just because, again for many younger people, like the allure

749
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: of the smartphone isn't an obscure phenomenon. Like we talked

750
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: constantly about unplugging and the benefits it's had on our

751
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: own mental health, Like, just anecdotally amongst ourselves, your book

752
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: address is sort of one of the main I feel

753
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: like cycles of emotions many of us have in relation

754
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: to using screens, where like we get motivated to use

755
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: the screen less and then we're like, oh, this feels great.

756
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: Then we are sucked right back in and we feel

757
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: like shit, and it feels like like we kind of

758
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: come down to like I don't know, it's wild, like

759
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: I just lack the self control. It's sort of like

760
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: the final sort of sentiment people land on and like

761
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: grappling with technologies. As a new parent too, I'm just

762
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: again very aware about screen time, and I also feel

763
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: that like there's a certain futility around it too with

764
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: a lot of parents or they're like, I don't know,

765
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, sooner or later it's just going to be

766
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: normal for them, And maybe I'm trying to delay the inevitable.

767
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: But it also apps. I've seen how much it can help,

768
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: you know, put a kid at ease and allow somebody

769
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: to do something else where do you feel like parents

770
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: and people kind of fit into this mix where we're

771
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: like the world is spinning around us and we're like,

772
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: am I bad? Or what is happening? Like? Is our

773
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: brains meant for this? Or are we up against something

774
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: a little bit more intense than we realized. I think

775
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: we're an interesting place right now because we have a

776
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: lot of information. We have lots of information from whistle

777
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: lowers from the tech companies telling us how tech companies

778
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: are addicting us to keep us online for longer. But

779
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: still we keep blaming ourselves. We keep thinking it's our

780
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: fault and we are unable to stop spending time online.

781
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: We blame our kids, we blame our families. The problem

782
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: is that that's exactly what the tech companies want us

783
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: to do, and that's why they're giving us all these

784
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: tools to make us feel like we're in control. So

785
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: once the evidence came out that it's that they're trying

786
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: to addict us, they gave us these digital well being tools.

787
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: You know, everybody who has an iPhone has this screen

788
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: time so you know how much time you are online,

789
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: or can even limit the time on your apps so

790
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: you can make your bone gray, or they're one you

791
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: could put warnings on Instagram, and not to talk about

792
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: parental controls, which are getting more and more complicated. And

793
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: but the thing is these are just there so we

794
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 1: all feel like we're doing something, but they're not really

795
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: there to make us succeed because they do not really

796
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: change the most addictive features in our devices or in

797
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: our apps. There are just there, so we will think

798
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: that it is our fault, exactly like you were describing.

799
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: And again, how in this world right if we're pivoting

800
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: from it's not us because it's like you know, you've

801
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: likened it to like the tobacco industry, where like they know,

802
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: they know it, they know it bad for everybody. But

803
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: then the gas lighting starts and it's like, I don't

804
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: know about them. I mean, we know what's going on,

805
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: but we're not going to actually cop to it. Do

806
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: you see like a similar evolution where on some level,

807
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: I mean, because I feel like if anything, like you're saying,

808
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: like the markets and capitalism a very good way of

809
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: shielding themselves from like having the profits go down, so

810
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: they'll find a way, like you're saying to be like, no, no,

811
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: you actually have control. It's not the it's not the

812
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: other things that we're just identified clear as day by

813
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: someone working on it. You have control, now, you know what?

814
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: What what does that sort of battle look like? I

815
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: think we're fighting the battle in the wrong place. Now,

816
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: we're finding fighting with ourselves, we're fighting with our families.

817
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: I think we have to shift to the public sphere.

818
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: And it is already happening. There's lots of action already

819
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: taking place. There are parents suing social media for addicting

820
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: their kids, causing mental harm, parents suing game manufacturers. There

821
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: are things happening. But I think people have to understand

822
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: it's not just flawyers. It's for everybody because everybody can

823
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: shift what they're doing to the collective sphere. Parents can

824
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: go to schools, they have an influence about what school

825
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: are doing. Schools are now maximize the technology in the

826
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: classroom because that's the federal policy. Well this could be changed.

827
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: You can decide whether something is useful in the classroom,

828
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: certain technology is useful or not. You can decide whether

829
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: you want the kids to be on their cell phones

830
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: during recess instead of talking to each other. So that's

831
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: the spaces when you can change things, and you can

832
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: change norms. Something you're saying, you know, maybe it's already happening,

833
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: but the new norms evolving every day, which I'm making

834
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: it worse. I was in vacation with my kids and

835
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: there was a family in the pool and my son

836
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: was calling me to look at this. There were two girls,

837
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: I think nine and eleven, and their parents gave them

838
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: these plastic paths to put their iPhones inside so they

839
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: can use the iPhones in the pool instead of playing. Now,

840
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: you know, this is evolving trend. Just like a few

841
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: years ago it started to involve take the kids out

842
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: with iPads to a restaurant. Now so many people are

843
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 1: doing it, So there are ways to I think things

844
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: are going to change. I think they're going to be

845
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: lots of legal action and tech companies will be restricted

846
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 1: in what they could do, but it will take some years.

847
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: So thinks people can do things as business owners. I

848
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: mean in New York City all the airports. If you

849
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: go to an airport, there are four iPads at every table.

850
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: There is no way you can have a conversation there.

851
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: So this is architecture for overuse. You can change. If

852
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: you own a restaurant, you can change. You don't have

853
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: to use iPads, you don't have to use QR codes.

854
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: So people will take out their phones the moment they

855
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,479
Speaker 1: sit down. So I think there are lots Most people

856
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: are worth a lot of things they can do until

857
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: things will change, and I do believe they're already starting

858
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: to change. Have you heard of like the third spaces

859
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: concept or theory about how there needs to be a

860
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: place for people outside of like work and the home,

861
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: for them to like gather and to exchange information and

862
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, basically develop culture. I think a lot of

863
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: people are saying that the phones are now teenagers and

864
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: kids third spaces because a lot of other third spaces

865
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: have become unsafe and unaccessible and inaccessible to them. For example,

866
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: my friend posted about how in New York when she

867
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: was growing up, it became illegal for kids under eighteen

868
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: to go hang out at the mall. And apparently that's

869
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: a thing that's been happening a lot. Whereas when I

870
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: was growing up, that's where we would go and hang

871
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: out with our friends. We'd go to the mall, we'd

872
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: hang out and go to Jomba juice. You'd like, I'd

873
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: try not to leave the bookstore with too many purchases,

874
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: you know, like you you'd hang out, But now it's

875
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: considered like loitering or whatever. Like a lot of these

876
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: external places that are meant for cultural exchange and you know,

877
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: kids to grow up are becoming unavailable to them. And also, honestly,

878
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: with like mass shootings and all of that, like people

879
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: get more scared of going out in public, and it

880
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: seems to be safer to have them just like inside

881
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: on their phones, which it doesn't necessarily, you know, there

882
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: are other risks with that. So I think it would

883
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: be I like how you highlighted it, that it's going

884
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 1: to be an effort on these places and these people

885
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: who are in charge of those areas because it really

886
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 1: does require cooperation between them and between the companies that

887
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: are like forcing their technology on people. Yeah, and I

888
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: think a lot. Municipalities can do a lot because they

889
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: can create spaces for people to hang out and for

890
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: kids to walk to. If you have places to be together,

891
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: it's very different than if you go home after school

892
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: and sit in your bedroom with your phone. Because the

893
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: statistics are quite shocking. I mean, kids are meeting I

894
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: think fifty percent less than they used to be in

895
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: the eighties, and potting I think less. Especially, they're not

896
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: getting together. So you can't by design create spaces for

897
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: people to get together. So I mean, if you think

898
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: about bars that have no cigarettes today, this seems so implausible,

899
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,919
Speaker 1: you know, before it happened and things look different now.

900
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: Can you think about a bar without every person having

901
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: their phone next to them? Yeah, it's it's it feels

902
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: like in a way, like it's almost futile to try

903
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: and reverse things in a like in a way because like,

904
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: for example, one of the last concerts I went to,

905
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: like amazing show, and there are people experiencing the concert

906
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: through their cell phone, like so much like watching there

907
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: like you Yeah, such a pet peeve of mine. I

908
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: saw Tom Petty in in person, and I was in

909
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: like the first or second row, and this girl next

910
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: to me literally was on her phone and she was like,

911
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is such a great song to

912
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: delete pictures too. And I was like, Tom Petty is

913
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: on stage right now, right that we've lost the like

914
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: even like with the example of people like in a pool, right,

915
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: like that swimming isn't enough on some level, that like

916
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: the just being able to play in the water is

917
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: not like stimulating enough that we're now adding like, well,

918
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: what if we augmented that with some like audio visual

919
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: stuff too That I'm like, because again, I think this

920
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: is what feels difficult for people, like even myself. I was.

921
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: I remember when I got my last vaccination, I forgot

922
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: my phone in the car, and then when you go

923
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: in there, you gotta wait like twenty minutes after like

924
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: for them just to chill out. And I was like,

925
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: first I was panicked because I'm like, I hadn't had

926
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: to wait without my phone in ages, and I there

927
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 1: was a moment of sincere like fear or not fear,

928
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: but like I was, I became uneasy and I didn't

929
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: like that. I felt so disarmed to just exist in

930
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: a space without a fucking screen to look at. And

931
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: it was funny because I sat down in the chair

932
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 1: like in the you know, pain relief medicine aisle, and

933
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: I was just doing I felt like a kid again.

934
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm like reading all the labels. No,

935
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm gonna read all the labels. Yeah,

936
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: that's if I go. If I got twenty minutes to kill,

937
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start reading labels and just start being in

938
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: my own thoughts again. And it was interesting how foreign

939
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: that felt to me, even though I was, you know,

940
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: I was born in the eighties, like I'm older millennial.

941
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: I grew up in the pre internet time too, which

942
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: felt like the most Like all humans are probably wired

943
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: to want to do this and connect to other people,

944
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: but we've definitely it's become so normal that to the

945
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: point where feeling human feels foreign. And that's what's really

946
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 1: scary to me. Well, I don't think we get to

947
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: go back in time, but I think we can balance

948
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: things better. Imagine if you went to concert and the

949
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: concert hole said no phones, so nobody could take all

950
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: their phones to take pictures. Maybe the phones will be

951
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: in their bags. That is changing the norms in a

952
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: way it could be done, and that things would affect everybody.

953
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 1: But I guess like in there, right, there's an argument

954
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: to say, like, well, if someone actually needed to contact

955
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: me during it, then that would be like why would

956
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: how would like how do you find a way that

957
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: makes it so it's not just sort of like across

958
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: the board no phones, but we're able to, Like I

959
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: guess that's the hard part of that. There are phones

960
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: for taking no phones for taking pictures of the show

961
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: you can do with you, but yeah, that's museums. They

962
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: do that too. Like I tried to take a picture

963
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: of a painting recently and they're like no, no, no, Yeah.

964
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: But it's also like that painting is gonna be online.

965
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna tell you, Like I don't need to take

966
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: a picture of that painting. Yeah. One thing that helped

967
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: me is like literally spending more time with people and

968
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: like making an effort to do that, to like leave

969
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: my home and go spend time with people. I'm trying

970
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: to do that like once a day because I work remotely.

971
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is like I have dogs

972
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: and when I walk them. One of them's a little

973
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: monster and he will try to eat stuff, and so

974
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: I have to like pay attention. And now I'm like,

975
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: I know where all the good sticks are, you know,

976
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: I know where all the great grasses. I'm like going

977
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: going back to when I was a kid and I

978
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 1: was just outside playing with my dogs. And it's so

979
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: nice to take a walk outside when it's sunny here

980
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: in LA and be with my pets, you know, and

981
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: talk to people who have pets and connect with them

982
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: that way. You know. So having things and people around

983
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: you that take you out of your head and like

984
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: give you an external like rounding two. Community is so important.

985
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 1: That's why I love like mutual aid and like physical

986
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: activities that like help with community things, because that really

987
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: nourishes a part of you that cannot be nurished in

988
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: the same way through a screen. Yeah, I've like in

989
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: the same way, like walking around my neighborhood and doing

990
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: the unthinkable of talking to a stranger has been the

991
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,959
Speaker 1: one thing that I've felt really balances things out, because

992
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 1: there was I saw a recent study that like the

993
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: people have a sincere fear of small talk falling apart,

994
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: and like they like people just have an eight sense,

995
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: like that if people begin small talk and the conversation

996
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: goes south, that it's suddenly on them, and like people

997
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: get their own anxiety of not being able to like

998
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 1: keep up small talk, which is wild because and sometimes

999
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: you're just exchanging pleasantries and it doesn't have to be

1000
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: more than that. But I feel like there's like these

1001
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: certain small things you can be doing, but at the

1002
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: same time we're developing like also bad habits around how

1003
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: we communicate to It's also crazy because everybody has a podcast,

1004
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: so how are they scared aself? Yes, all right, guy interrupted.

1005
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm saying it's also bad for people's well being because

1006
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: there are studies which are showing that people's happiness it's

1007
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: not just about a long term relationship, but also about

1008
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: these most small interactions exactly the small talk, this eye

1009
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: contact and a smile that really changed the way your

1010
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: brain works and makes you feel much better. And if

1011
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: you're not doing that, and if you're just walking in

1012
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: a street with your phone, looking at your pictures, answering

1013
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: text and you're missing all these opportunities, which somehow just

1014
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: makes you feel drained and tie it and not good

1015
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Just when it comes

1016
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: to policy, I feel like there's a difficult path ahead,

1017
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like we saw how seriously they

1018
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: took privacy in Europe. The US is a little bit behind,

1019
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: a lot behind. It's like say for maybe like California

1020
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: and a couple other places, but like in just in

1021
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 1: the with the recent hearing on TikTok, it's so clear,

1022
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 1: at least in that the narrow context of that hearing,

1023
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: like they just weren't even able or willing to discuss

1024
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: the broader problems with social media, and it became sort

1025
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: of this like very TikTok specific thing. While we've seen,

1026
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: to your point, whistleblowers at like Facebook et cetera, say

1027
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: like these are real issues, they've had hearings, but then

1028
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: we're not quite seeing the follow through. What you know,

1029
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: what kind of like policy proposals are out there, do

1030
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: you think are would actually benefit people in a way

1031
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: that sort of gets to the heart of you know,

1032
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: like our overuse of technology, obviously knowing the parts that

1033
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: it's help make things easier for us, but also addressing

1034
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: like the bigger issues of you know, feeling increasingly isolated

1035
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: and things like that. Yeah, so I think first of all,

1036
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: the issue with TikTok is complicated because it just brings

1037
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: out completely different issues related to China, and it just

1038
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of marking the whole debate. Yeah, but there

1039
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: have been a lot of bills both further all in

1040
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: state trying to get first of all, the addictive features

1041
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: of the phones, because there's some features on our phones

1042
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: which really up to no good. What are those from

1043
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 1: the flashlight? The flashlight is useful, but you know, for example,

1044
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: streaks on Snapchat, Yeah, there are there for nothing but

1045
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 1: to get you to go back to the platform. So

1046
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: kids have to set kids. I don't think many adults

1047
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: use it, but you know, they have to send a

1048
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: streak to their friend and if they get one within

1049
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, they've established a streak and they keep

1050
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: accommolating them. And then they have a number, let's say

1051
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty four. They have special badges, and

1052
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: they have older friends onto the number of streaks. Now,

1053
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: there's no requirement for any content in these streaks, so

1054
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: you just have to make sure you send it. Why

1055
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 1: because you go to snapcheck and you see the ads

1056
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 1: and if the kids miss a day, they lose everything

1057
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: and they lose all their friends, and that's why they

1058
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 1: get so upset when the parents take away the phone,

1059
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: because they for them it's a huge thing. So all

1060
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,439
Speaker 1: these kinds of features like snapstreak you have just there

1061
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: to make it go back to the app with a device,

1062
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: are not needed, and there are builds which are trying

1063
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: to outlaw these kinds of features. Of course, the problem

1064
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: is they'll always come with new ones. Because the whole

1065
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: business model is based on our time and our data.

1066
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: They need us to be there for as long as

1067
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: possible so they can collect more data on us so

1068
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: they can target advertising at us. And again we have

1069
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: to be there for longer so we can see the ads.

1070
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: So that's why I think it's not just one thing,

1071
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: not just one law, not one wonderful Supreme Court case.

1072
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen like that. It's going to

1073
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 1: happen from a mixture of things that are going to happen,

1074
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,919
Speaker 1: Like if you have the antitrust lasses against big tech,

1075
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: that if, for example, the merger between them the right

1076
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: now matter owns Facebook owns, WhatsApp owns the Instagram. If

1077
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: they're broken up and there's more nivation, more competition, we

1078
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 1: might see the different business model which are not based

1079
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: on our time. So that's another thing that's happening. I think,

1080
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, I think the policy about maximize

1081
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: the technology in the school has to change because if

1082
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: Minecraft is homework, then how can you prevent your kid

1083
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: from play Minecraft at home? There are so there are

1084
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 1: lots of them, and then there's class actions, and if

1085
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: you look back, it's cigarettes. You know, we know cigarettes

1086
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: are bad, but it took decades to change things. It

1087
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: took class actions, and it took advertising, and it took

1088
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: warnings and and this is this is going to be

1089
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: the same. It will take a lot of things at

1090
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: the same time. For example, let's say we have ratings

1091
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: for addictiveness. You know, so many parents download games for

1092
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: the kids, thinking oh, Minecraft is an educational game. If

1093
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: they could see before they download, this is high rating

1094
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: for addictiveness, they may not do that. But not only that,

1095
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: the game's company may change the game because they want

1096
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: people to download of the game, so they might take

1097
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,919
Speaker 1: the addictive features out by themselves. So it's a matter

1098
00:57:54,920 --> 00:58:00,959
Speaker 1: of pressuring from many directions to move things right. And

1099
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: like when you talk about cigarettes, I know, like the

1100
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: earlier studies or like maybe in like the fifties where

1101
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: they knew where do you think we are like if

1102
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: the first studies come out like oh it's bad, are

1103
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: we close to like the truth dot com era of

1104
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: like anti smoking ads? Or are we like a decade away?

1105
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: How I mean? I guess now everything is moving faster.

1106
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: So maybe what took you know, decades before, it might

1107
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: take seven years. I don't know. Well, I think what

1108
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: change would cigarettes? You're right, the first studies came out

1109
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: in the fifties. Nineteen sixty four, the certain General announces

1110
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: a health hazards. It's amazing it took so long considering

1111
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: how bad cigarettes are. Right, But from then on we saw,

1112
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,479
Speaker 1: you know, advertising, we saw one of the things. Took

1113
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: a while, but they started shifting our problems. Right now,

1114
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: we are still in the science wars. We do not

1115
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: have you know, big of my organizations saying this is bad,

1116
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: especially for children. With the evidence is in, we just

1117
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: have partial recommendations for small kids about screens. I think

1118
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: we have so much data over the last two or

1119
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: three years that I think we're at a place where

1120
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: medical organizations, governmental entities can make these proclamations and from

1121
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: that moment on politic and proceed faster. And we already

1122
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: have a lot of action in place, so I hope that, yeah,

1123
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: things will move faster than with cigarettes. I think it

1124
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: will take some years. And that's why I think it's

1125
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: so important what people do in their communities, how they

1126
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: change their business norms, how they change their schools, because

1127
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: things have to happen at the same time otherwise it

1128
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 1: affects all of us not to mention a whole generation

1129
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: of kids already in front of screens for a decades

1130
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: plus a pandemic. Right. It's interesting that you were talking

1131
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: about this now because ten years ago, when I was

1132
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: in a little bit more than ten years when I

1133
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: was in college, people were failing out of a very

1134
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: great college for Minecraft, Like it was a joke about

1135
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: how many students would fail because of their addiction to

1136
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: Minecraft specifically. So it's interesting that you use that and

1137
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: that they haven't really changed much. It seems like in

1138
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: the last you know, decade, Yeah, why change It's a

1139
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: winning formula. And what do you kind of say, because

1140
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: I like to you know, people that are frustrated, parents

1141
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: that are frustrated, who are like, am I fucking up?

1142
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: Like am I bad because would you say to Miles,

1143
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: my kid is too young although he loves the sopranos,

1144
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that whenever if he turns his head,

1145
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't almost be the lights or the

1146
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: mom But like, what do you I mean? Because I

1147
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: think again there is this feeling of like it feels

1148
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,919
Speaker 1: so personal that too when you talk to other parents

1149
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: about scream time, like, hey, what the fuck do you

1150
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: want me to do? Man? Like it's I got a

1151
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: lot going on? This is this, this works? And I

1152
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: get that there is this internal sense of like responsibility

1153
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: but then feeling helpless because there is like what am

1154
01:00:58,160 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: I going to do a thing? What do you say

1155
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: to people who are sort of like in that mental

1156
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: space and like how to sort of emerge from that

1157
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: or at least to begin to look at the situation

1158
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: with a little more like context. So I'll start with you, Miles,

1159
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,439
Speaker 1: since you have a very small baby, So I think

1160
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: for you it's easy because you can just decide not

1161
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 1: to give your baby screen. The studies are in the

1162
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: smaller child where the baby is the worst it is,

1163
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: and you have control. So and I think people have

1164
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: a lot of control all the way through a lamentary school.

1165
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 1: That so I think parents can really limit kids screen time.

1166
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: The issue becomes when they get to middle school because

1167
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: social life is in social networks and you can't really

1168
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: eyes it like your child, and that's when it becomes

1169
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: a problem. And you can do things in the meantime.

1170
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: You can you can model. I mean, I try when

1171
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm home and all my kids are here, said, I

1172
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: have to worry. I try to put the phones somewhere

1173
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 1: away from me. And so you can do things, and

1174
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: you can do small things for yourself. You know. Again,

1175
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: when I work, because I am, as I mentioned, I'm

1176
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: as addicted as all of us, despite everything I know,

1177
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: I always put my phone on twenty minutes a timer

1178
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: and I write for twenty minutes, and then I check

1179
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: my emails and I do this again. There are things

1180
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: you can do, and you can also. Kids remember the pandemic.

1181
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: They remember how they felt, so you can talk to

1182
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: your mind them how they felt horrible at that time

1183
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: and how they felt much better when they saw people.

1184
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,479
Speaker 1: So you can make a difference. You cannot force an

1185
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: older kid not to do that. It's not going to work,

1186
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: I mean. And also that's smarter than us with technology,

1187
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: they'll always beat us. It's not going to happen. So

1188
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: I think it's a combination of doing what you can

1189
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: and while also realizing this a broader situation too. Y'm

1190
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: not blaming yourself. It's the most important thing because that

1191
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: that is the problem now that people are sitting there

1192
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: and thinking it's older flocked right. Yeah, we're like in

1193
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: the plastic straws debate where we're like, actually, what about No,

1194
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: it can't be down to my level. What about the

1195
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: companies that are actually the ones that are steering all

1196
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: of this? And I think that is an important thing

1197
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: to sort of recenter, like in the in the conversation,

1198
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: I have a couple of comments to make on that.

1199
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: I do think that like watching kids, because I tootor

1200
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: a lot of kids and like watching them, I feel

1201
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: like overall, with technology, just like with life, like you

1202
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: you really do have to like raise them the way

1203
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,439
Speaker 1: that you think you should raise them, and then try

1204
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: to be as involved as you can without being overbearing

1205
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: and allow them to like make their mistakes, and then

1206
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: you kind of have to hope that like those values

1207
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 1: that you passed on to them guide their use of

1208
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: technology as well, and that they come to you when

1209
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: they're scared or they like need help with something. It

1210
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: seems like to me, I'm not a I'm a parent

1211
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 1: to dogs, so I don't have to worry about this.

1212
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: But we didn't watch the Puppy Bowl and they were addicted.

1213
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: But also the other thing is you're talking about how

1214
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about it with smaller children,

1215
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: But FaceTime is how I stay connected with my nephew.

1216
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: And I know plenty of people that purposefully like FaceTime

1217
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: family members, like their infant children, just so that they

1218
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: hear the voice, they see the face. Then they start

1219
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: associating that face with the screen, you know, with the

1220
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: good feelings with the screen. But that's the only way,

1221
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: like I can keep in touch with him because he's

1222
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: it's such a long distance and I know that's slightly

1223
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: different than games and stuff, but I also want to

1224
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: worry about that, you know. I think it's a great

1225
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 1: example because it's important to also remember that not all

1226
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: screen is made alike. I think, you know, connecting with

1227
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: people over FaceTime is a great thing, especially relatives who

1228
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: live away. You know, being able to read the New

1229
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: Times or any news is different. The problem becomes when

1230
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: you're selling things as educational games and people are playing

1231
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: them and they can all these dopamine bursts from playing.

1232
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: Or social networks you get the document burst from the

1233
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: comments and the likes. So there's a big difference between

1234
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: games and social networks or or YouTube where the one

1235
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 1: short video you know ends in the next one stalls

1236
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: and and talking to Grandma on FaceTime. Yeah, okay, that

1237
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: makes me feel better, thank you. Yeah, it's I mean,

1238
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: it's but I mean these are all things like like

1239
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: you said, like Paula be like you have concerns like

1240
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 1: I was, like talking to my dad on FaceTime, who

1241
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: was like not able to see my son and for

1242
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: you and you, I mean he's not really able, like

1243
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: he can't my son can't see enough where he's like

1244
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: I associated all this too, but to your point, like

1245
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: how the beginnings of your relationship to the screen begins,

1246
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: and and and guy, you also mentioned this too, like

1247
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: like not using the phone in front of the kids too,

1248
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: because I've seen my other friends do that where they're

1249
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: trying to say, like I don't want my kid to

1250
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: think that when you're not doing something, you look at

1251
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 1: your phone or that that's that's what is normal, like

1252
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: you can be active, or you can do other things,

1253
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: or you can like read a physical book. But some

1254
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:05,959
Speaker 1: I've heard people say like I don't want my kids

1255
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: like early memories of like me being like I'm looking

1256
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: down at this like glowing rectangle and baby, Ye see

1257
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: that that is like sort of the most normal thing. Obviously,

1258
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: you know we have to use our phones. But I

1259
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: get that they're like, it's it's all very subtle and

1260
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: how like kids begin to like see what's normal or

1261
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: not normal? Yeah, and I think you know that. Yeah.

1262
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: The studies show that parents who are having users their

1263
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: kids also have you used the phone. On the other hand,

1264
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: it's hard. You know you're there, but you're using a

1265
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: phone because you're texting your babysitters and you can't find

1266
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: a babysit and you're texting another So it's it's not

1267
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: so it's not. There's no perfect solution. We're not living

1268
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Speaker 1: in a perfect world for this, so we can just

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01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: try our best, but it's not. There's no easy way

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Speaker 1: out right now right. I think that sums up so

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01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: many of what we're experiencing in this present moment, and

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Speaker 1: I say something that might help this story come full circle. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: I just saw an article that said Pablo Xavier, a

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01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: thirty one year old construction worker from the Chicago area,

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01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 1: said he was tripping on shrooms last week when he

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01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: came up with the idea for Pope Francis, his puffy

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01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: jacket image. So he was out in the world drugs,

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01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: experiencing community and nature and stuff when he full up

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01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: the things that'll do to your brain, you know, just

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01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: ye small talk with people. But again, I think, yeah,

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01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,439
Speaker 1: important that if we understand that it's like this very

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01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: complex issue where it's such a double edged sword, where

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01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: it's given us things like being able to connect with

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01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: people when we need to and in ways that are

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01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: much better than just like talking over the phone or

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01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: writing something. But at the same time, there's also this

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01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: like commodified monetized, you know, use of technology that is

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01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: purely built on extracting as much eyeball time from you

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01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: as possible, and you know, not reckoning with that is

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Speaker 1: creating a bit of a slippery slope. All right, that's

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Speaker 1: gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeite. Guys, please

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01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: like and review the show. If you like, the show

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01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: means the world Demiles. He needs your validation folks, I

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01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: hope you're having a great weekend and I will talk

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Speaker 1: to you Monday. By