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Speaker 1: Hey, Club Shade listeners. We'll be back soon with weekly

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Speaker 1: episodes featuring brand new interviews with exciting roster guests. Until then,

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Speaker 1: enjoyed this special rewind episode with one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: moments from Club Sha Shade so far. All my life, grinding,

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Speaker 1: all my life, fights, hustle back, price one slice, one

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Speaker 1: got the SA all my life. I've been grinding all

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Speaker 1: my life. Though it was hard, but you played and

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Speaker 1: arguably the greatest era of the eighties that we've seen.

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Speaker 1: How would you rank Bad Boy Pistons, Showtime Lakers, the

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Speaker 1: Big Three, Celtics, the Bulls at the tail end although

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Speaker 1: they didn't win, they were on the they did to

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Speaker 1: you what you had did to the Celtics and the

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Speaker 1: Lakers they were stalking from an outside position. How would

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Speaker 1: you how would you rank? How would you rank the

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Speaker 1: dynasties of the eighties. So you'd have to rank the

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Speaker 1: you know, Lakers, Celtics arguably one or two, you know,

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Speaker 1: one eight one bet depending on you know, do you

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Speaker 1: like vanilla ice cream or chocolate ice cream? But still

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Speaker 1: ice cream? You know, And in Philly that period of

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Speaker 1: time with with Moses and Doctor Jay, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the eighties, you know, you got to give him their

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Speaker 1: their respect too. I think we would probably be, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, we would be somewhere in there as

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Speaker 1: a basketball team. Now, talent wise, the Lakers, the Celtics,

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Speaker 1: the seventy six ers, we cannot compete with their talent.

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Speaker 1: But as a basketball team, as a youth, I would

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Speaker 1: venture to say that our basketball team as a unit

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Speaker 1: was just as good as their teams. However, if you're

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Speaker 1: just breaking it down by talent, we did not have

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Speaker 1: the talent that any of those teams had. But not

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Speaker 1: having a talent is really what made us even more

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Speaker 1: special because we didn't have the luxury that they had, right,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have all those I mean, the Lakers are

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Speaker 1: littered with Hall of Famers. They got six and seven,

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Speaker 1: you got. We know about Kareem and Magic and James

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Speaker 1: Worthy and Jamal Wills and Bob McAdoo. We know about

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Speaker 1: those guys. And Norm Nixon was Norm Nixon was a

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Speaker 1: heck of a player also, and you know about the

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Speaker 1: Big the Big three Celtics. But people don't realize Dennis

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Speaker 1: Johnson was a Finals MVP and a Defensive Player of

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Speaker 1: the Year. Bill Walton. Bill Walton was an MVP. He

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Speaker 1: was a finals MVP. People don't realize just how good

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Speaker 1: those teams were. And you took him down, and then

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Speaker 1: everybody gonna say, well, you know they got NOD, but

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Speaker 1: you still beat them. Nobody else beat them, and they

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Speaker 1: were getting old. No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't that

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Speaker 1: they were getting old. We were that good. So and

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Speaker 1: so I gave you eighty six eighty seven, those were

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Speaker 1: right teams, right and eighty seven we had them beat

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Speaker 1: you did. In eighty eight we had the Lakers beat

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Speaker 1: So we we were that good right now. Now, when

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Speaker 1: you look at Philadelphia, the Lakers, and the Celtics, every

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Speaker 1: one of those teams that we just named in eighties

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Speaker 1: that were champions, all of them had three or four

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Speaker 1: top fifty players on their team. Yes, not not one.

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Speaker 1: They had three or four top players on yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: Detroit Pistons. And this is this is why I say

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Speaker 1: we were a great team. I was the only one

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Speaker 1: as as a top fifty player on my team. That's

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Speaker 1: how good, that's how good a unit we had become

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Speaker 1: to compete against teams that had three or four top

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Speaker 1: fifty players on their team. Yeah, I think the Celtics

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Speaker 1: had like five because the Big Three, DJ and Bill Walton. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: couple of times we're gonna talk aback wena you call it. People.

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Speaker 1: You called a lot of criticism and people say, well,

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Speaker 1: he just hating, he just upset. You said, Michael wasn't

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Speaker 1: my competition. I never chased Michael. I was chasing Larry

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Speaker 1: and Magic. I was chasing the Celtics and the Lakers

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Speaker 1: because they had what I wanted. Michael never had what

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Speaker 1: I wanted. He was chasing me. I wasn't chasing him.

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Speaker 1: Explain what you mean by that. You know, just had

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Speaker 1: to head. You know, I was dominant over him right

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Speaker 1: when we when our teams met. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: go back and you look at until ninety one, when

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Speaker 1: I when I when I basically had career in the

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Speaker 1: risk surgery. Right up until then, you know, I record

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Speaker 1: against against against him and his team. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was it wasn't it really was a competition there. And

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, and and most people think like

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Speaker 1: we're you know, I'm five years older than him, but

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Speaker 1: were only a year apart, year, two year and a

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Speaker 1: half apart. So but you know, he just wasn't my competition. Now,

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Speaker 1: birds didn't have anything that you wanted. He didn't have

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Speaker 1: a prophes No, And like I said, my focus was Bird, Magic,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jay, Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Those were the guys, right.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't care what anybody say. You can

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Speaker 1: go back and look at history. Those were the guys.

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Speaker 1: They were j Moses Malone, Larry Bird, Robert Parish, Kevin McHale,

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Speaker 1: Kareem Magic, James. Those were the guys, right. Because back

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Speaker 1: then the Celtics were putting four players on the All

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Speaker 1: Star Team. They have their three big guys in Dennis Johnson.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, the East would look like the Celtics. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: hold on, wait a minute, if there anybody else in

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Speaker 1: the East. Yeah, well there was Milwaukee because remember Milwalker

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Speaker 1: was good. That Jerry Cummings. They had a bobbling there,

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Speaker 1: they had Alvin Robinson, Minfree. They would they would lose,

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Speaker 1: They would lose to Milwaukee, would lose to Philadelphia or Austin.

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Speaker 1: Ye seven games, yep. And that's how good that Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: team was. Yep. I remember, I remember, like yesterday. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Chicago, I mean, and I'm and I'm from Chicago

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Speaker 1: and I'm from the West Side. But you know Jordan

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Speaker 1: Jordan was you know, he dominated a different era, right.

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Speaker 1: You put Jordan in our era. You know he lost

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Speaker 1: a lot in our era, right. So obviously coming from Chicago,

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Speaker 1: I mean normally when you hear about basketball players, you

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Speaker 1: hear about Chicago, you hear about New York, you hear

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Speaker 1: about the big cities. So you go to Indiana. What

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Speaker 1: was the thought process of going to Indiana? I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you had heard some of the stories about Coach Night,

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Speaker 1: and then it's reported that your brother and Coach Night

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Speaker 1: get into it when he comes to recruiting. All that's true.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, here I'm scratching. That's my dog

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Speaker 1: behind me, So I saw I saw it walk in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that most people probably think I got a big dog.

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Speaker 1: But that little family he tough now. But you know

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Speaker 1: I didn't make the decision to go to Indiana. That

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Speaker 1: was made by my mom. And and again back then,

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Speaker 1: remember remember you your mom and your dad, they they

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Speaker 1: had to hammer, right. I never forget. You know, my mom,

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Speaker 1: you know, called the press conference and she said, my

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Speaker 1: son has made his decision. He decided to go to

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Speaker 1: Indiana University and play for coach Tonight. And I was

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Speaker 1: like that, and and yeah, here and my brother they

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Speaker 1: got into it, and they got into it. They got

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Speaker 1: into a you know, a pretty big fight. And you

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Speaker 1: know the reason why. What was it about? Well, uh,

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Speaker 1: coach and I was recruiting me to come to Indiana

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Speaker 1: in Bloomington, Indiana, right and and the next town over

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Speaker 1: from Bloomington was Martinsville, Indiana. Okay. Clan started at right,

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Speaker 1: plan is you know, as a big presidence in the

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Speaker 1: state of Indiana. Right. And and so my brother, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: he asked coach night. He said, uh, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: when Junior's down there, because that's what they call me

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Speaker 1: in the family. They said, when Junior's down there, if

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Speaker 1: if something was to go down with the clan, who's

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Speaker 1: going to take care of him? And you know, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was I thought it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: funny ass So Coach and I said, well, if we're winning,

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Speaker 1: they will, but we just kind of laughed it off, right.

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Speaker 1: A brother didn't think that was funny, right, So so

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh, you know, you know, he went into

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Speaker 1: his thing, and you know, and so they got into

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Speaker 1: you know, a little back and forth, and then my

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Speaker 1: brother said, well, hey, we can take this outside and

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Speaker 1: Coach Nice stood up, took his jacket off, rolled up

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Speaker 1: his sleeves. It's like, yeah, we could take this outside,

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Speaker 1: and you know, everybody in the house we were panicking.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, you know our households all right, oh no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: now now Shannon, you know, let me let me paint

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Speaker 1: the scene. So we at that time we got no lights.

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Speaker 1: We pours poor. So all our meetings have to be

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Speaker 1: in the in the daytime, right right. So it's about

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Speaker 1: four o'clock and you know, again we got you know,

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Speaker 1: it's actually it was a big roach crawling behind Coach

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Speaker 1: Knight's head. Oh man, you know, And and it was

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Speaker 1: like we were sitting there like cool away, cool away,

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Speaker 1: you know, they don't come out. Do you have company?

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Speaker 1: I feel right right and side by my dog. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so now it's getting to be a little dusk, and

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Speaker 1: I remember, you know, so the the scuffle you know,

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Speaker 1: started happening, not a scuffle, but the back and forth.

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Speaker 1: Coach and I took off his jacket and we was

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Speaker 1: all no, no, no, no. And you know it's that

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Speaker 1: one person in the room who ain't moving, ain't doing

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Speaker 1: nothing with my mom. My mom was looking at him

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Speaker 1: like shaking her head, and I was like, oh, she

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Speaker 1: liked him. Oh, And so that's that's how I went

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Speaker 1: down and my mom and my mom and my sister.

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Speaker 1: You know. He he came in, he said, I'm off

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Speaker 1: of your son. Three things. Hey, he's gonna graduate from college.

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Speaker 1: The he's going to be a gentleman. And see everything

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Speaker 1: that I know about basketball, I'm a teacher. And that

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Speaker 1: was it. I at the time that you went to college,

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Speaker 1: were your father alive? My father was alive. Now. The

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Speaker 1: interesting thing about my father, my mother and my father,

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Speaker 1: and again, you know, people who were coming up in

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Speaker 1: the sixties, you would notice, you know. So we had

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Speaker 1: to go on welfare. So when you go on welfare,

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Speaker 1: I mean the US government was really breaking up your

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Speaker 1: family because the man couldn't be inside the household, right,

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Speaker 1: And so my father had to leave so we can

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Speaker 1: get on welfare, get the welfare check. And then they

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Speaker 1: started having titchen and everything else. But my mom, my dad,

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Speaker 1: when he looked at Indiana, he did not like me

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Speaker 1: playing basketball. My father didn't like nothing about entertainment. My

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Speaker 1: father was everything about books, learning, getting educated, because this

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Speaker 1: is the way you're going to make it in this world,

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Speaker 1: right done. If you think you're gonna make it in

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Speaker 1: this world bouncing a basketball, that's not how you're going

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Speaker 1: to make it. You're not gonna be, you know. And

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Speaker 1: and his beliefs was you know, entertainment, you know, wasn't

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Speaker 1: wasn't the wasn't the door or the avenue for you

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Speaker 1: to make it. It was the education. And those were

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Speaker 1: his beliefs. I think the reason why I asked you

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Speaker 1: that because I don't know how many people know this,

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Speaker 1: but we know this because we come from black families.

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Speaker 1: The older brother took on the role as the father

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Speaker 1: if the father wasn't in the house. And because you

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Speaker 1: said your brother, your older brother, had this conversation that,

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Speaker 1: let me know, okay, when somebody when the father was absent,

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Speaker 1: he's the man of the house. He took on that responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Yes he did. And and they and even though in

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Speaker 1: this world documented you know, my my brother's a after

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Speaker 1: the Vietnam War or everybody fell into you know, heroin

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Speaker 1: and cocaine, and my brothers, you know, a couple of

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Speaker 1: them died, you know, one of them had HIV, and

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Speaker 1: you know, so it was it was a very difficult

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Speaker 1: time during that period of time. But the messages that

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Speaker 1: they were always giving me or in their hard times

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Speaker 1: was hey, don't don't do what we're doing right, can

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Speaker 1: do something else. And Shannon, I'll never forget you know. Uh,

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Speaker 1: now you got me going down memory lane because when

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Speaker 1: we started, when we're talking about my brothers, you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody got to hand me down right. Oh yes, so

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Speaker 1: me being the youngest, right, oh you got you got

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Speaker 1: three four deep, hand me down three ft deep. But

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Speaker 1: I couldn't fit my brother's clothes. So you know who's clothes.

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Speaker 1: I could fit sister's clothes. I got my fister clothes.

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Speaker 1: So you button up on the left side too, wearing

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Speaker 1: I wearing a jeans and you don't we knew, man,

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Speaker 1: those are girl jeans. So I'm having the fire on

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Speaker 1: people in elementary and junior high because they talk about

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing girl jeans. So I got the fire on them.

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Speaker 1: I said, I got no choice. That's how I got

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Speaker 1: good with my hands, That's how I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well go On graduation day, I had on my sister's

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Speaker 1: black pattern leather boots, and I had on her flowered

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Speaker 1: red blows with a hood on the back and I

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Speaker 1: had on her privateence Saint Mao Blazer. That was my

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Speaker 1: graduation outfit in eighth grade. And you know, become a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people forget I sail. They said, well,

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Speaker 1: because when you had beaten them the previous you beat

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Speaker 1: them four one four two four three, and they finally

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Speaker 1: broke through and they beat you guys. And they said

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Speaker 1: that each time that you beat them, they shook your hand.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know if people remember this in eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: when you've eat the Celtics, they walked off the court

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Speaker 1: and they didn't shake your hand. Yeah you remember that,

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Speaker 1: I said, But yeah, I remember that, and by so so,

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Speaker 1: But nobody said hold on. Nobody said a word about that.

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Speaker 1: It was only became an issue when you guys walked

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Speaker 1: off the court and didn't shake And look, I'm not

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Speaker 1: excusing what you did, but if you didn't have a

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Speaker 1: problem with it three or four years earlier, why you

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Speaker 1: got a problem with it now? Yeah, and and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: when the Celtics walked off, right, here's the difference. We

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Speaker 1: as the Pistons, we never made a big deal, right,

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Speaker 1: Celtics walking off not shaking all hands. They were champions

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Speaker 1: and they deserved to to to go out how they

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Speaker 1: want to. Yeah, and and and we would thankful and

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Speaker 1: grateful for the lessons that they taught. And now we

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Speaker 1: go on to try to beat somebody else. Right. We

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Speaker 1: never we never sat around and said, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: Michael and Michael and I are good friends still today,

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Speaker 1: right and and before Dennis Johnson and all of them

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Speaker 1: guys before Dennis Johnson passed, and you know, Larry and

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Speaker 1: I we see each other today and it's still cool.

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Speaker 1: But we never we never said, wow, they didn't shake

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Speaker 1: our hand. What poor sports, And we never did that.

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Speaker 1: It was like, okay, they were they were champions, they

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Speaker 1: were exiting, and we moved on the The other thing

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Speaker 1: that that I would say is the the night before

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Speaker 1: now we're down three zero in the series. You've heard

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Speaker 1: me speak glowingly about the Celtics and the Lakers as champions,

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Speaker 1: and when we were getting ready to beat them and

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Speaker 1: we knew we had the better team and they were

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Speaker 1: going down. We wasn't the day before talking about how

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Speaker 1: they were bad and they were dead. So they were right,

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Speaker 1: they're bad for the NBA. Yes, we gave them their respect.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Jordan's before you know, before you know, they

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Speaker 1: swept us, you know, the night before you know, he

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Speaker 1: has this big press conference where he annihilates our team.

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Speaker 1: And the one thing that really, you know, hit us

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Speaker 1: hard is when he called us undeserving champions. Now you

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Speaker 1: won super Bowls, You're in a champion. Yeah. Now imagine

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Speaker 1: someone saying that what you earned and what you did,

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Speaker 1: you were undeserving of it. And by the way, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a coach, it wasn't a media person, it was

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Speaker 1: one of your peers, right, what made Why do you

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Speaker 1: think you said that? What made you guys so underserved?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. These are questions that that that you

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Speaker 1: have to ask him. Right now, all I can do

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Speaker 1: is speak for us and speak for the Detroit Pistons.

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Speaker 1: So you know when we when when we walked off

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Speaker 1: and Lamb Beer said, I'm not shaking their hands and

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Speaker 1: this is how we rode. We rode as a team.

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Speaker 1: We wrote as you know, it's one for all, all

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Speaker 1: for one, you know, and Lamb Beer was like, this

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Speaker 1: is what we're doing, so you fall in line. And

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Speaker 1: that's right. I didn't None of us knew that and

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Speaker 1: that the camera would be on you. And this is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a pass another torch shanning that that

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Speaker 1: is some bs ain't never been torch passed, and glorious

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Speaker 1: moment and all right, all that narrative around that was

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Speaker 1: just total made up bs to make one team or

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Speaker 1: one one player looked bad and another one looked good.

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Speaker 1: That was it. You know what to do? Get the

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Speaker 1: subscribe button to become an official member of Club Sha Sha,

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Speaker 1: where we always do something or choose something