WEBVTT - The Evening Rocket: Iron Man 0:00:15.396 --> 0:00:25.636 Pushkin. All right, okay, so getting in it's really really low. Yeah. 0:00:25.676 --> 0:00:26.996 So what you want to do is actually a friend 0:00:27.036 --> 0:00:30.956 of mine. One's a Tesla Roadster black like the Batmobile, 0:00:31.956 --> 0:00:38.996 kind of slide out. Okay, who Welcome to the Evening Rocket. 0:00:39.156 --> 0:00:42.636 A special report on the relationship between science fiction and 0:00:42.756 --> 0:00:47.236 Silicon Valley and the world of Elon Musk. I'm Jill Lapoor, 0:00:48.956 --> 0:00:53.716 was the ignition. Yeah, all right, you want to go? Yeah, alright, 0:00:54.076 --> 0:00:57.756 let's go. This episode is called iron Man and it's 0:00:57.796 --> 0:01:01.276 about the Tesla. I decided to go for a ride. 0:01:01.676 --> 0:01:02.996 So what I like it? Off? The car? Is it? 0:01:03.836 --> 0:01:06.236 I really do? I feel like I'm driving a piece 0:01:06.236 --> 0:01:14.396 of art? Yeah? Who. A century ago, in the early 0:01:14.476 --> 0:01:18.596 days of the automobile, petrol powered cars won the battle 0:01:18.796 --> 0:01:26.716 against electric cars. In nineteen ninety six, a few years 0:01:26.716 --> 0:01:30.636 before Tesla got started, GM developed an electric car called 0:01:30.636 --> 0:01:34.436 the EV one. California had just adopted a new zero 0:01:34.476 --> 0:01:38.796 emissions law. But then after California revised that law, GM 0:01:38.916 --> 0:01:43.236 seized its fleet of evs, all of them. Grieving owners 0:01:43.596 --> 0:01:48.116 held funerals for their cars. Some might say that to 0:01:48.316 --> 0:01:51.716 be here gathered today to mourn the loss of a 0:01:51.756 --> 0:01:58.356 car would be going too far. We are here to 0:01:58.436 --> 0:02:01.956 say goodbye to more than a car. It is difficult 0:02:01.956 --> 0:02:04.156 to know what to say at a time like this, 0:02:05.476 --> 0:02:09.396 To be honest with you, I consulted my Rabbi's manual 0:02:09.396 --> 0:02:11.476 and there was absolutely meling in it for the burial 0:02:11.556 --> 0:02:15.716 of the car. So when Tesla came up with the Roadster, 0:02:16.156 --> 0:02:19.236 these people who'd held those funerals, these people went nuts. 0:02:19.756 --> 0:02:22.516 The roadster was sleek and fast, It had a range 0:02:22.556 --> 0:02:25.676 of something like two hundred miles. True, it cost about 0:02:25.716 --> 0:02:29.196 one hundred thousand dollars, but that was supposedly part of 0:02:29.196 --> 0:02:32.356 the plan. Make electric cars sexy, sell a bunch to 0:02:32.516 --> 0:02:35.036 very rich people, and use that money to build a 0:02:35.076 --> 0:02:39.116 more affordable car. Hollywood A listers signed up, as Musk 0:02:39.316 --> 0:02:44.356 told NPR George Clooney, there's the founders of Google, LARRYN. Sergay, 0:02:45.276 --> 0:02:50.236 what's the name of Lee Flee fla chollieps about a 0:02:50.276 --> 0:02:53.916 car Tesla when it launched. That first car Tesla was 0:02:53.956 --> 0:02:58.476 a great story, something genuinely new and not some ethereal 0:02:58.556 --> 0:03:03.556 thing like Facebook, a physical thing, an engineering marvel. But 0:03:03.796 --> 0:03:09.716 Musk was a better story. Young, handsome, dashing Thomason meets 0:03:09.716 --> 0:03:14.076 Henry Ford meets Elvis Presley with a little Dick cavit 0:03:14.076 --> 0:03:19.676 tossed in debonair. He'd already disrupted banking and aerospace, now 0:03:19.756 --> 0:03:23.556 the automobile industry. He wasn't just selling cars to celebrities. 0:03:24.116 --> 0:03:27.116 He had become one or no where. He was becoming 0:03:27.156 --> 0:03:32.076 something more. Here's how he talked about himself. Then, what 0:03:32.116 --> 0:03:36.356 I'm good at is, well, I think I'm good at 0:03:37.156 --> 0:03:41.316 inventing solutions to problems. Things seem barely obvious to me 0:03:42.396 --> 0:03:46.956 that are clearly not obvious to most people. So, and 0:03:47.076 --> 0:03:49.796 I'm not really trying to do it or anything. I 0:03:49.836 --> 0:03:52.276 just just seemed like, I don't know, It's just like 0:03:52.356 --> 0:03:56.036 to see the truth of things, and others seemed less 0:03:56.036 --> 0:04:02.116 able to do so. Elon Musk was becoming a superhero. 0:04:09.276 --> 0:04:14.156 Time on the Evening Rocket How Elon Musk became Iron 0:04:14.196 --> 0:04:18.716 Man CEO of Tessa Motors. He's the real life Tony Stark. 0:04:18.876 --> 0:04:24.756 This guy, please welcome. Elon Musk, the Silicon Valley entrepreneur 0:04:24.796 --> 0:04:29.196 as superhero is an interesting historical turn, one more way 0:04:29.236 --> 0:04:32.916 in which Musk's brand of capitalism is tied to science fiction. 0:04:33.756 --> 0:04:35.716 But this episode, I want to be gained by taking 0:04:35.756 --> 0:04:38.996 a look at iron Man's origins with the US military 0:04:39.476 --> 0:04:44.756 during the Cold War. Oh oh, what is the most breathtaking, 0:04:45.076 --> 0:04:51.556 most sensational superhero of all? Iron Man? Marvel Comics introduced 0:04:51.596 --> 0:04:54.716 iron Man in nineteen sixty three during the Vietnam War. 0:04:55.276 --> 0:05:00.716 Rich handsome, known as a glamorous playboy, constantly in the 0:05:00.836 --> 0:05:07.316 company of beautiful a daring women. Look, there's Tony Stark. 0:05:07.316 --> 0:05:12.636 He's the dreamiest thing side of work cuts. Yes, Anthony 0:05:12.716 --> 0:05:18.116 Stock has both a sophesticut and as scientist, a millionaire 0:05:18.276 --> 0:05:22.356 bachelor as much at home in a laboratory as an 0:05:22.436 --> 0:05:26.316 high society Stark travels to Vietnam to test some new 0:05:26.356 --> 0:05:29.636 tech in the jungle, he trips and sets off an 0:05:29.676 --> 0:05:33.836 explosive and wakes up in captivity to a communist. Heated 0:05:33.876 --> 0:05:37.276 by a fellow captive and elderly physicist, he sets to 0:05:37.276 --> 0:05:41.236 work building a device to save his life. I've done 0:05:41.276 --> 0:05:45.036 extensive work with transistors. I can design them in any 0:05:45.116 --> 0:05:48.316 size to perform any function. In the world of iron Man, 0:05:48.436 --> 0:05:52.516 you take technology on faith it works. But this man 0:05:52.836 --> 0:05:57.236 who seems so fortunate, who's envied by millions, is so 0:05:57.676 --> 0:06:04.916 destined to become the most tragic figure Earth. Stanley, who 0:06:04.956 --> 0:06:08.036 created the character, said later that comic book readers hated 0:06:08.076 --> 0:06:10.996 the Vietnam War, so he created a superhero who was 0:06:11.036 --> 0:06:14.196 a military contractor on a kind of a dare. So 0:06:14.476 --> 0:06:16.556 he said, I'm going to come up with a character 0:06:16.956 --> 0:06:21.156 who represents everything everybody hates it. I'm going to shove 0:06:21.196 --> 0:06:25.916 it down their throats. But earlier he told a different story. 0:06:26.316 --> 0:06:29.396 In nineteen sixty three, Lee said most Americans thought that 0:06:29.436 --> 0:06:32.196 what was going on between North and South Vietnam was 0:06:32.236 --> 0:06:35.436 a pretty straightforward good versus evil story, and would have 0:06:35.436 --> 0:06:38.876 thought of Tony Stark as the good guy. Here. Still, 0:06:39.476 --> 0:06:43.396 Tony Stark was a tragic figure, invincible but trapped in 0:06:43.436 --> 0:06:51.756 a machine of his own making. In two thousand and eight, 0:06:51.836 --> 0:06:54.716 Marvel reimagined that tragedy, who would have brought out what 0:06:54.756 --> 0:06:57.916 would become some of the highest grossing Marvel superhero movies 0:06:57.956 --> 0:07:02.036 of all time, The Iron Man franchise, produced by Paramount 0:07:02.076 --> 0:07:11.516 and starring Robert Downey Jr. Tony Stark's fusionary us. Today, 0:07:11.716 --> 0:07:14.676 Tony Stark has changed the face of the weapons industry 0:07:15.076 --> 0:07:19.476 by ensuring freedom and protecting America and her interests around 0:07:19.476 --> 0:07:22.116 the globe. The Ironman films were written by a guy 0:07:22.196 --> 0:07:25.716 named John Favreau. While Favreau was developing the character of 0:07:25.756 --> 0:07:29.556 Tony Stark, he met with Elon Musk. At age four, 0:07:29.636 --> 0:07:33.196 he built his first circuit board, at age six, his 0:07:33.276 --> 0:07:37.596 first engine, and at seventeen he graduated Sola cum laude 0:07:37.756 --> 0:07:42.876 from MIT. Musk received delivery of the very first Tesla roadster. 0:07:43.236 --> 0:07:46.796 In February two thousand and eight, John Favreau bought a 0:07:46.836 --> 0:07:51.076 Tesla two. The first Iron Man movie hit theaters three 0:07:51.076 --> 0:07:54.036 months later iron Man in the Tesla roll out, it 0:07:54.076 --> 0:07:56.916 was like a double feature. Boy Wonder grows up to 0:07:56.956 --> 0:07:59.556 save the world by building new machines and revels in 0:07:59.636 --> 0:08:03.196 his own celebrity sick if I take a picture with you? Yes, 0:08:03.796 --> 0:08:08.716 that's very cool. This too, seems to come from Musk's backstory. 0:08:09.236 --> 0:08:11.716 Back in nineteen ninety nine, after Musk made his first 0:08:11.796 --> 0:08:14.956 millions from x dot com and PayPal, he was already 0:08:15.036 --> 0:08:18.316 keen to become a celebrity. I like to only cover 0:08:18.516 --> 0:08:23.796 Rolling Start better. After Iron Man came out, Musk was 0:08:23.836 --> 0:08:26.996 on the cover of Rolling Stone. The headline read Elon 0:08:27.076 --> 0:08:30.356 Musk Ak a Tony Stark wants to save the world. 0:08:31.476 --> 0:08:34.756 Musk and Stark even look alike. Black jeans, black T shirt, 0:08:34.916 --> 0:08:38.596 maybe a blazer, same haircut, a little stubble. In the 0:08:38.676 --> 0:08:42.476 movie Reboot, Stark Industries is manufacturing weapons to be used 0:08:42.556 --> 0:08:46.996 not fighting communists in Vietnam, but fighting terrorists in Afghanistan. 0:08:47.796 --> 0:08:51.996 Tony Stark is super flashy. Tell you what, throw a 0:08:51.996 --> 0:08:54.356 little hot rod red in there. Yes, I should helping 0:08:54.396 --> 0:08:58.796 keep a low profile. If Elon Musk influenced Tony Stark, 0:08:59.036 --> 0:09:02.556 pretty soon, Tony Stark seems to have begun to influence 0:09:02.596 --> 0:09:07.676 Elon Musk before Iron Man Musk and interviews was modest. 0:09:08.076 --> 0:09:10.516 The things that worry me are we going to make 0:09:10.556 --> 0:09:14.316 a mistake, Our own foolishness, our own errors can hurt us. 0:09:14.836 --> 0:09:17.356 There's a reason why there's an adeomatic expression about rocket 0:09:17.396 --> 0:09:21.516 science being hard. It really is really hard. If you 0:09:21.516 --> 0:09:24.076 are not a musketeer. If you've always scratched your head 0:09:24.076 --> 0:09:26.956 at what people could possibly find appealing about Elon Musk, 0:09:27.596 --> 0:09:30.436 listen to some of these early interviews. He's a smart, 0:09:30.596 --> 0:09:35.676 fascinating person with interesting, if grandiose ideas well. I think 0:09:35.796 --> 0:09:38.036 what I'd like to do is help solve some important problems. 0:09:38.276 --> 0:09:41.956 So I think, in a small way, helped build the Internet, 0:09:42.556 --> 0:09:46.516 and then with respect to the global waring problem that 0:09:46.596 --> 0:09:50.956 the transition from away from oil and other hydrocommence to 0:09:51.116 --> 0:09:53.676 to something which is clean and sustainable. I hope to 0:09:53.716 --> 0:09:57.116 have an impact there. And then with respect to space, 0:09:57.356 --> 0:10:01.196 I hope to have an impact in helping make humanity 0:10:01.276 --> 0:10:06.316 a multiplanet species. But after Iron Man, Elon Musk seemed 0:10:06.396 --> 0:10:10.596 to become more like Tony Stark, flash you brashure. In 0:10:10.676 --> 0:10:13.396 twenty ten, in the second Iron Man movie, he had 0:10:13.436 --> 0:10:18.876 a cameo as himself, how are you Those Merlin engines 0:10:18.916 --> 0:10:21.516 are fantastic. Thank you? Yeah, good idea for electric jet. 0:10:21.836 --> 0:10:26.396 You do, then we'll make it work. Elon Musk became 0:10:26.436 --> 0:10:30.156 a character in the Marvel universe and on the celebrity circuit. 0:10:30.636 --> 0:10:33.676 It seems sometimes as if Musk was resisting this role. 0:10:34.036 --> 0:10:37.076 For instance, in an appearance on The Colbert Report on 0:10:37.156 --> 0:10:40.556 Comedy Central, people have called you the real Tony Stark. 0:10:40.956 --> 0:10:43.716 You're trying to do good things and you're a billionaire. 0:10:43.916 --> 0:10:46.356 I mean, yeah, that seems a little bit like either 0:10:46.396 --> 0:10:51.716 superhero or super villain. You have to choose one. You're 0:10:51.756 --> 0:10:55.596 trying to do useful things. After a while, though, he 0:10:55.676 --> 0:10:58.996 settled into the role. Okay, I am Iron Man, But 0:10:59.276 --> 0:11:02.636 eventually you can transforms into an earthlike planet. How would 0:11:02.676 --> 0:11:06.276 you do that? You'd warm it up, dropped the nuclear 0:11:06.316 --> 0:11:12.956 weapons over the poles. Was a super villain. Still, I 0:11:12.956 --> 0:11:16.076 think there's another way to look at this transformation. Maybe 0:11:16.156 --> 0:11:21.236 Elon Musk becoming Tony Stark had been Tesla's plan all along. 0:11:21.956 --> 0:11:27.356 Science fiction as a business strategy, you have to drive it. 0:11:27.756 --> 0:11:30.196 I'm not really a car person. I'm more of a 0:11:30.236 --> 0:11:35.556 bicycle person. Ye, put on the brake and push d okay. 0:11:35.836 --> 0:11:37.916 But when I went for a ride in my friend's roadster, 0:11:38.516 --> 0:11:40.636 I'll admit I was super excited to take a turn 0:11:40.636 --> 0:11:46.276 at the wheel. Yeah it is. Yeah, Well, did you 0:11:46.356 --> 0:11:48.476 ride go carts as a kid. Yes, it's like a 0:11:48.596 --> 0:11:52.756 riding a go cart high end. I think I don't 0:11:52.796 --> 0:11:57.756 really really want Yeah, driving the roadster was a blast. 0:11:58.476 --> 0:12:01.076 But I wanted to learn more about Tesla's history, so 0:12:01.196 --> 0:12:04.756 I called up Ed Niedermeyer, a longtime auto industry analyst 0:12:05.116 --> 0:12:09.036 an author of Ludicrous, The Unvarnished Story of Tesla Motors. 0:12:09.596 --> 0:12:11.956 I think a lot of the very earliest investment in 0:12:12.036 --> 0:12:14.636 Tesla was not really an investment in Tesla it was 0:12:14.636 --> 0:12:18.236 an investment in Elon Musk. Musk didn't start the company. 0:12:18.756 --> 0:12:21.476 The earliest news stories about Tesla didn't even mention him 0:12:21.556 --> 0:12:23.876 or else. They talked about him only as an early investor. 0:12:24.916 --> 0:12:27.556 Musk seems to have said about making sure stories about 0:12:27.596 --> 0:12:31.476 Tesla were stories about him. In two thousand and six, 0:12:31.756 --> 0:12:36.156 on the Tesla website, he posted the Secret Teslomotors master Plan, 0:12:37.116 --> 0:12:41.996 a clever manifesto that explained the company's strategy build sports car, 0:12:42.356 --> 0:12:44.796 use that money to build an affordable car, Use that 0:12:44.916 --> 0:12:48.316 money to build an even more affordable car. While doing above, 0:12:48.596 --> 0:12:53.076 also provide zero emissions electric power generation options. But it 0:12:53.196 --> 0:12:55.996 was also a very canny bit of self puffery. Call 0:12:56.076 --> 0:12:59.796 it the secret Elon Musk master Plan. He introduced himself 0:12:59.836 --> 0:13:02.796 this way, my day job is running a space transportation 0:13:02.916 --> 0:13:05.276 company called SpaceX. But on the side, I am the 0:13:05.356 --> 0:13:09.676 chairman of Teslomotors. And in two thousand and eight, when 0:13:09.716 --> 0:13:12.916 both Tesla and iron Man made the debuts, Musk left 0:13:12.996 --> 0:13:18.636 the conventional mold of the Silicon Valley entrepreneur behind. He 0:13:18.796 --> 0:13:21.676 moved to Los Angeles, which is also where Tony Stark lives. 0:13:22.076 --> 0:13:23.716 In two thousand and nine, one of the guys who 0:13:23.796 --> 0:13:28.156 started Tesla sued Musk for, among other things, slander and libel. 0:13:28.556 --> 0:13:31.276 He said that Musk set out to rewrite history by 0:13:31.356 --> 0:13:34.756 claiming he'd founded or created the company. The suit was 0:13:34.836 --> 0:13:37.836 later settled out of court in a resolution that acknowledged 0:13:37.916 --> 0:13:43.716 five co founders of Tesla, including Musk. Meanwhile, though Musk's 0:13:43.756 --> 0:13:47.756 pr stunts generated just the buzz the company needed. A 0:13:48.076 --> 0:13:51.716 big part of Silicon Valley is not just making money. 0:13:51.836 --> 0:13:54.276 Another big part of it is the idea of changing 0:13:54.316 --> 0:13:58.276 the world and making things cool. The reality is that 0:13:58.556 --> 0:14:01.236 the reason Tesla is here today is because Elon Musk 0:14:01.396 --> 0:14:06.116 is a remarkable storyteller. In some ways, what Musk was doing. 0:14:06.436 --> 0:14:09.956 A man becoming a brand is an old game. Colonel 0:14:09.996 --> 0:14:13.556 Sanders is Kentucky Fried Chicken, Lloyd Grossman is his line 0:14:13.596 --> 0:14:17.396 of sauces, and then there's this guy Trump. Steaks are 0:14:17.436 --> 0:14:20.156 the world's greatest steaks, and I mean that in every 0:14:20.276 --> 0:14:23.796 sense of the word. But Musk did something different. Musk 0:14:23.996 --> 0:14:28.636 as Tesla was irreverent, and he was witty, ironic, whip smart. 0:14:29.196 --> 0:14:32.956 The cheekiness of Musk's online persona was new then, even 0:14:33.036 --> 0:14:36.556 if this voice has since become ubiquitous online. Tesco's sassy 0:14:36.636 --> 0:14:40.836 Twitter personality say Musk was sassy and messianic all at once. 0:14:41.396 --> 0:14:44.236 Not the greatest steak in the world, but the steak 0:14:44.516 --> 0:14:47.716 that will save the world. Niedermeyer has gotten a lot 0:14:47.796 --> 0:14:51.476 of harassment for writing about Tesla. I've been labeled by 0:14:51.556 --> 0:14:55.076 the fans and the company itself as a hater or 0:14:55.236 --> 0:14:59.276 you know, someone with potentially nefarious motivations for writing about 0:14:59.436 --> 0:15:02.236 Tesla the way that I do. The reality is I 0:15:02.356 --> 0:15:05.876 wanted the book to capture what I saw as the 0:15:05.956 --> 0:15:11.116 complexity underneath this very polarized discourse about it online. And 0:15:11.236 --> 0:15:13.276 I think that, you know, a lot of that polarization 0:15:13.396 --> 0:15:17.316 has been a conscious strategy. It's absolutely not a coincidence 0:15:17.476 --> 0:15:22.436 that this very polarized culture has has sprouted up around Tesla, 0:15:22.476 --> 0:15:24.236 and that the fan culture, you know, people call it 0:15:24.276 --> 0:15:26.876 a cult. I think that Musk knows that if you 0:15:26.956 --> 0:15:29.876 can force people to either love him and trust everything 0:15:29.956 --> 0:15:33.036 he says implicitly, or hate him and think he's a 0:15:33.116 --> 0:15:36.436 con man, more people will break his way, and so 0:15:36.676 --> 0:15:41.916 polarization is the strategic advantage to him. Musks fifty five 0:15:42.036 --> 0:15:45.436 million followers on Twitter. He has sued his critics he 0:15:45.516 --> 0:15:49.036 has damned the media. His Twitter followers tend to gang 0:15:49.156 --> 0:15:51.916 up on his critics, especially when those critics are women. 0:15:52.796 --> 0:15:56.676 Musk is always getting into Twitter spats. It's strange. Why 0:15:56.796 --> 0:15:59.796 is this billionaire online all the time, tweeting belligerently about 0:15:59.876 --> 0:16:03.556 mostly nothing? What does he need it? Ed? Niedermeyer has 0:16:03.596 --> 0:16:07.876 a theory. Musk's fans need him to promise the impossible, 0:16:09.156 --> 0:16:14.036 and Musk needs them to give him adulation even if 0:16:14.076 --> 0:16:18.396 he doesn't actually deliver on the impossible. He needs them 0:16:18.476 --> 0:16:22.236 to tend and nurture and grow again. What I think 0:16:22.356 --> 0:16:25.116 ultimately is the most important thing about Tesla, which is 0:16:25.276 --> 0:16:28.876 the narrative and the image. For Niedermeyer, this relationship is 0:16:28.876 --> 0:16:32.236 a consequence of the sort of speculative capitalism that involves 0:16:32.316 --> 0:16:36.996 more speculation than capital. It's a natural outgrowth of the 0:16:37.436 --> 0:16:40.316 venture capital culture of betting on the jockey and not 0:16:40.476 --> 0:16:44.156 the horse. You know, for a venture capital investor, you 0:16:44.236 --> 0:16:48.116 don't always have to build a really sustainably profitable business. 0:16:48.676 --> 0:16:51.676 What you have to do is make sure that at 0:16:51.796 --> 0:16:54.556 some point down the road, you can pass your investment 0:16:54.636 --> 0:16:56.716 off to someone who thinks it's worth a lot of money. 0:16:57.316 --> 0:16:59.956 Tesla almost went bankrupt in two thousand and eight, the 0:17:00.036 --> 0:17:02.676 year iron Man came out. In two thousand and nine, 0:17:02.756 --> 0:17:05.076 it received a four hundred and sixty five million dollars 0:17:05.116 --> 0:17:08.156 loan from the US government. It raised two hundred and 0:17:08.196 --> 0:17:11.116 twenty six million it's IPO in twenty ten, and in 0:17:11.196 --> 0:17:14.756 twenty thirteen paid back its government loan ten years early. 0:17:15.516 --> 0:17:18.796 In twenty twenty, it had its first profitable year. But 0:17:18.876 --> 0:17:21.316 for Niedermeyer, the story of Tesla, which is one of 0:17:21.436 --> 0:17:25.876 engineering virtuosity and against the odd success, is also a 0:17:25.916 --> 0:17:30.236 story of procarity for Tesla and for Musk. Even as 0:17:30.356 --> 0:17:31.956 the richest man in the world, when he you know 0:17:32.036 --> 0:17:34.756 in those days that he is, his position has always 0:17:34.796 --> 0:17:39.076 been incredibly precarious. And it's because fundamentally, you know a 0:17:39.196 --> 0:17:42.036 lot of why he's there. It's not just the narrative, 0:17:42.116 --> 0:17:45.396 but but also it's his risk tolerance. Is an incredibly 0:17:45.556 --> 0:17:48.596 risk tolerant person. And you can look at a lot 0:17:48.636 --> 0:17:51.396 of different decisions the company's made and see that, and 0:17:51.676 --> 0:17:55.116 you know, with risk comes roared, but risk is also 0:17:55.276 --> 0:18:02.316 risky as far as risk goes. The striking thing about 0:18:02.356 --> 0:18:05.036 Tesla to me is how Musk describes it as a 0:18:05.076 --> 0:18:08.716 company out to save the planet from existential risk by 0:18:08.796 --> 0:18:14.236 it avert human extinction. This year, on Earth Day, President 0:18:14.276 --> 0:18:16.396 Biden was at the White House sharing a smut on 0:18:16.436 --> 0:18:19.276 how to avert climate disaster. Well. Elon Musk was at 0:18:19.316 --> 0:18:22.356 the launch of a SpaceX rocket carrying NASA astronauts to 0:18:22.436 --> 0:18:26.196 the International Space Station. The astronauts drove to the launch 0:18:26.236 --> 0:18:29.676 site in Teslas. They each o their own SUV with 0:18:29.876 --> 0:18:39.476 license plates that read Reduce, recycle, and reuse. A key 0:18:39.556 --> 0:18:41.796 story for Musk as a brand is that he's saving 0:18:41.836 --> 0:18:45.716 the planet and saving humans from extinction. But is he 0:18:47.156 --> 0:18:53.116 Elon Musk is a really difficult one to parse. He's 0:18:53.156 --> 0:18:57.956 been very open and saying that, you know, colonizing space 0:18:58.436 --> 0:19:02.516 is in a sort of a survival strategy, which I 0:19:02.676 --> 0:19:05.956 think is a thought that has a weird amount of 0:19:06.036 --> 0:19:08.116 currency out there in the world, and when you think 0:19:08.156 --> 0:19:11.796 about it, you know, in my view, just just makes 0:19:11.956 --> 0:19:15.796 no sense whatsoever. Elizabeth Colbert is a New Yorker staff 0:19:15.836 --> 0:19:19.516 writer who want appealed Surprise for her book The Sixth Extinction. 0:19:19.996 --> 0:19:23.036 There are a lot of these tech billionaires who are 0:19:23.076 --> 0:19:26.036 interested in space obviously, as you know, and who obviously 0:19:26.156 --> 0:19:29.316 also see it as a big business, and it's hard 0:19:29.356 --> 0:19:33.036 to pull that apart too. How much of this, you know, 0:19:33.156 --> 0:19:36.476 sort of space exploration hype I'm going to call it, 0:19:36.836 --> 0:19:41.556 is on behalf of very potentially very profitable businesses. And 0:19:41.676 --> 0:19:44.396 how much of it is really this kind of sci 0:19:44.516 --> 0:19:50.076 fi um, you know, escape from Earth fantasy. I really 0:19:50.196 --> 0:19:54.036 don't know. So then why do you call it hype? Well, 0:19:54.076 --> 0:19:56.956 I mean, Elon Musk is constantly telling us, you know, 0:19:57.076 --> 0:20:00.716 when we're going to colonize Mars. But if you ask 0:20:00.956 --> 0:20:06.876 any person seriously involved in space exploration, are we colonizing 0:20:06.956 --> 0:20:12.396 Mars the way Elon mu is constantly proclaiming that we will, 0:20:12.556 --> 0:20:16.076 and within a very short time frame, they will say 0:20:16.196 --> 0:20:20.156 absolutely not. There's absolutely no way that's happening. So then 0:20:20.196 --> 0:20:23.276 there's this other line of thought that I confess myself 0:20:23.436 --> 0:20:27.556 totally perplexed by, which comes from the people who talk 0:20:27.596 --> 0:20:33.956 about human extinction scenarios, and their calculation is sure, they're 0:20:33.996 --> 0:20:38.316 suffering here on Earth, but if we don't go to 0:20:38.436 --> 0:20:43.916 other planets, then humans will become extinct when our planet dies. 0:20:44.236 --> 0:20:50.236 And so against your global suffering of people enduring poverty 0:20:50.316 --> 0:20:55.276 and disease, we count the untold numbers of our human 0:20:55.396 --> 0:20:59.396 descendants whose human potential will be lost if we don't 0:20:59.436 --> 0:21:04.676 go like it's almost a kind of extraterrestrial economics. Have 0:21:04.836 --> 0:21:10.116 you encountered that existential risk argument species that we have 0:21:10.316 --> 0:21:13.756 in the fossil record eventually does go extinct. I'm not 0:21:13.876 --> 0:21:17.276 really predicting, you know, human extinction here, but if you 0:21:17.356 --> 0:21:20.436 look at the record, it's it's pretty much one hundred percent, 0:21:20.596 --> 0:21:24.756 you know, over time. So the idea that humans Homo 0:21:24.836 --> 0:21:28.116 sapiens are going to be around for the end of 0:21:28.236 --> 0:21:32.356 the planet Earth as a habitable planet, that's so crazily 0:21:33.156 --> 0:21:35.516 at odds with as I say, what we know about 0:21:35.556 --> 0:21:38.716 the history of life, so so embedded in that is 0:21:38.756 --> 0:21:45.076 this notion of humans as completely separate, completely divorced from 0:21:45.396 --> 0:21:51.036 evolutionary history and facing the shining future on other planets. 0:21:51.196 --> 0:21:56.236 And you know, that is a really interesting idea. It's 0:21:56.276 --> 0:21:59.876 not one that I find very plausible. I called Colbert 0:21:59.916 --> 0:22:02.196 to ask her about Tesla, but we ended up talking 0:22:02.196 --> 0:22:04.836 a lot about SpaceX, since it can be difficult to 0:22:04.956 --> 0:22:08.436 pull these two visions of the future apart. What struck 0:22:08.516 --> 0:22:11.516 me most talking with Colbert were her observations about the 0:22:11.596 --> 0:22:16.236 internal contradictions of Muscism. Earlier this year, Musk announced that 0:22:16.316 --> 0:22:19.396 Tesla would accept bitcoin from people to pay for their Tesla's, 0:22:19.876 --> 0:22:22.716 and the Tesla itself had purchased one point five billion 0:22:22.756 --> 0:22:27.196 dollars worth of bitcoin. The price of bitcoin jumped. Musk 0:22:27.236 --> 0:22:31.756 has been an incredibly avid proponent of cryptocurrencies. Bitcoins a 0:22:31.916 --> 0:22:38.796 terribly energy intensive cryptocurrency. Bitcoin mining nowadays is using a 0:22:39.276 --> 0:22:44.196 roughly one hundred and thirty terror watt hours of electricity 0:22:44.916 --> 0:22:49.756 per year, and that's roughly the energy consumption of a 0:22:49.876 --> 0:22:54.756 country like Sweden. So you know, the internal inconsistencies here, 0:22:55.076 --> 0:22:58.756 I think prevent him from being a particularly good spokesman 0:22:59.276 --> 0:23:03.316 for environmental causes. Just doesn't suggest that his ultimate goal 0:23:03.996 --> 0:23:07.756 is really driving carbon emissions down. The day I talked 0:23:07.756 --> 0:23:09.996 to Colbert, she'd just published a piece in The New 0:23:10.076 --> 0:23:14.756 Yorker about Tesla's bitcoin polluting. Days later, must announced that 0:23:14.836 --> 0:23:17.276 he changed his mind. You could no longer buy a 0:23:17.356 --> 0:23:20.996 Tesla with bitcoin. Still, a lot of commentators pointed out 0:23:21.036 --> 0:23:23.516 that there really was no excuse for Musk's decisions to 0:23:23.596 --> 0:23:26.116 accept bitcoin in the first place. How could he not 0:23:26.236 --> 0:23:28.996 have known that bitcoin is mostly mined in China and 0:23:29.156 --> 0:23:32.436 mostly on servers fueled by coal. A writer for The 0:23:32.476 --> 0:23:35.476 Washington Post ask had must been on a multi year 0:23:35.596 --> 0:23:40.516 news fast. In any case, the essential tenant of Muskism remained, 0:23:41.156 --> 0:23:44.356 every problem can be solved with technology. It's a reigning 0:23:44.396 --> 0:23:48.076 philosophy of iron Man, too, the motto of Stark Industries. 0:23:50.276 --> 0:23:56.676 Everything is achievable through technology, better living, robust health. Everything 0:23:56.716 --> 0:24:00.396 can also be wrecked through technology. Elizabeth Colbert's new book 0:24:00.636 --> 0:24:04.156 Under a White Sky asks whether we have engineered ourselves 0:24:04.236 --> 0:24:07.876 so deeply into so many problems, especially climate change, that 0:24:07.996 --> 0:24:10.076 at this point the only way forward is to try 0:24:10.116 --> 0:24:14.596 to engineer ourselves out of them. Stopping carbon emissions is essential, 0:24:15.036 --> 0:24:16.836 but it's not going to be enough. Maybe we need 0:24:16.876 --> 0:24:20.796 to invent machines that can eat carbon. Environmentalism used to 0:24:20.796 --> 0:24:24.996 be largely anti tech, but it's not anymore because maybe 0:24:25.116 --> 0:24:28.116 there's no longer a choice. I don't think there is 0:24:28.396 --> 0:24:33.356 really a sort of anti tech environmentalism these days. But 0:24:33.756 --> 0:24:38.156 there are different strains, and Elon Musk is the avatar 0:24:38.556 --> 0:24:41.996 of the strain that says, well, humans can just do 0:24:42.196 --> 0:24:45.756 anything that we put our minds to. We can colonize mores, 0:24:45.876 --> 0:24:48.236 we can succeed or two out of the atmosphere. There's 0:24:48.476 --> 0:24:53.756 there are no geophysical limits here that we can't overcome. Unfortunately, 0:24:54.076 --> 0:24:57.596 I think that's just not true. We approached Tesla for 0:24:57.636 --> 0:25:00.436 a response to several points raised in the series, but 0:25:00.596 --> 0:25:03.076 at the time of this recording, we haven't received a reply. 0:25:06.196 --> 0:25:09.076 I loved driving the Tesla Roadster, but as I say, 0:25:09.116 --> 0:25:11.316 I'm not much of a car person. I'm more of 0:25:11.396 --> 0:25:15.196 a bicycle person. So is HG. Wells, who once wrote 0:25:15.596 --> 0:25:21.236 cycle tracks will abound in utopia. Alas utopias never coming, 0:25:21.836 --> 0:25:26.516 I'll settle for sustainability. And sustainability will require more than 0:25:26.596 --> 0:25:29.876 just switching out every petrol powered car for an electric car. 0:25:30.556 --> 0:25:33.076 They only need to be fewer cars and more bicycles, 0:25:33.196 --> 0:25:38.516 pedestrians and public transit, and more renewable energy. But Tesla 0:25:38.836 --> 0:25:43.076 is pioneering that too. Beyond producing electric cars and making 0:25:43.116 --> 0:25:46.636 them thrilling, Tesla has done a whole lot for renewable energy, 0:25:46.996 --> 0:25:50.476 especially with its battery technology. After all, the last part 0:25:50.516 --> 0:25:53.916 of the company's secret master plan had always been provide 0:25:53.996 --> 0:25:59.796 zero emission electric power generation options. In twenty seventeen, after 0:25:59.916 --> 0:26:03.436 a statewide power outage in South Australia, Tesla won a 0:26:03.516 --> 0:26:06.236 bid to design a battery system for this date and 0:26:06.436 --> 0:26:09.396 promise to install it in a hundred days. As Musk 0:26:09.436 --> 0:26:12.036 explain at a press conference, this is going to be 0:26:12.196 --> 0:26:15.676 the largest matter translation in the world by a significant margin. 0:26:16.396 --> 0:26:18.596 We actually insisted in doing the contract that we'd be 0:26:18.676 --> 0:26:21.276 held to the one hundred days or it's free. This 0:26:21.436 --> 0:26:24.636 system will be three times more powerful than any system 0:26:24.836 --> 0:26:28.796 on Earth. This is not like a minorphoora into the frontier. 0:26:28.876 --> 0:26:31.716 This is like going three times further than anyone's gone before. 0:26:32.356 --> 0:26:36.356 Tesla delivered in sixty three days. The system's still working 0:26:36.516 --> 0:26:42.916 fantastically well for South Australians. Energy is cheaper and more reliable. Somehow, 0:26:43.076 --> 0:26:45.516 this sort of thing never gets the Iron Man treatment. 0:26:45.556 --> 0:26:49.196 It's not sexy. It didn't involve Hollywood or celebrities. It 0:26:49.276 --> 0:26:51.916 didn't turn on Reddit, it didn't end in a Twitter feud. 0:26:52.396 --> 0:26:55.196 It wasn't even a science fiction fantasy, and it did 0:26:55.276 --> 0:26:58.916 not save the planet. It was a smart renewable energy 0:26:58.996 --> 0:27:02.396 partnership that went well. There was really this opportunity to 0:27:02.516 --> 0:27:05.956