1 00:00:15,396 --> 00:00:25,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin. All right, okay, so getting in it's really really low. Yeah. 2 00:00:25,676 --> 00:00:26,996 Speaker 1: So what you want to do is actually a friend 3 00:00:27,036 --> 00:00:30,956 Speaker 1: of mine. One's a Tesla Roadster black like the Batmobile, 4 00:00:31,956 --> 00:00:38,996 Speaker 1: kind of slide out. Okay, who Welcome to the Evening Rocket. 5 00:00:39,156 --> 00:00:42,636 Speaker 1: A special report on the relationship between science fiction and 6 00:00:42,756 --> 00:00:47,236 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley and the world of Elon Musk. I'm Jill Lapoor, 7 00:00:48,956 --> 00:00:53,716 Speaker 1: was the ignition. Yeah, all right, you want to go? Yeah, alright, 8 00:00:54,076 --> 00:00:57,756 Speaker 1: let's go. This episode is called iron Man and it's 9 00:00:57,796 --> 00:01:01,276 Speaker 1: about the Tesla. I decided to go for a ride. 10 00:01:01,676 --> 00:01:02,996 Speaker 1: So what I like it? Off? The car? Is it? 11 00:01:03,836 --> 00:01:06,236 Speaker 1: I really do? I feel like I'm driving a piece 12 00:01:06,236 --> 00:01:14,396 Speaker 1: of art? Yeah? Who. A century ago, in the early 13 00:01:14,476 --> 00:01:18,596 Speaker 1: days of the automobile, petrol powered cars won the battle 14 00:01:18,796 --> 00:01:26,716 Speaker 1: against electric cars. In nineteen ninety six, a few years 15 00:01:26,716 --> 00:01:30,636 Speaker 1: before Tesla got started, GM developed an electric car called 16 00:01:30,636 --> 00:01:34,436 Speaker 1: the EV one. California had just adopted a new zero 17 00:01:34,476 --> 00:01:38,796 Speaker 1: emissions law. But then after California revised that law, GM 18 00:01:38,916 --> 00:01:43,236 Speaker 1: seized its fleet of evs, all of them. Grieving owners 19 00:01:43,596 --> 00:01:48,116 Speaker 1: held funerals for their cars. Some might say that to 20 00:01:48,316 --> 00:01:51,716 Speaker 1: be here gathered today to mourn the loss of a 21 00:01:51,756 --> 00:01:58,356 Speaker 1: car would be going too far. We are here to 22 00:01:58,436 --> 00:02:01,956 Speaker 1: say goodbye to more than a car. It is difficult 23 00:02:01,956 --> 00:02:04,156 Speaker 1: to know what to say at a time like this, 24 00:02:05,476 --> 00:02:09,396 Speaker 1: To be honest with you, I consulted my Rabbi's manual 25 00:02:09,396 --> 00:02:11,476 Speaker 1: and there was absolutely meling in it for the burial 26 00:02:11,556 --> 00:02:15,716 Speaker 1: of the car. So when Tesla came up with the Roadster, 27 00:02:16,156 --> 00:02:19,236 Speaker 1: these people who'd held those funerals, these people went nuts. 28 00:02:19,756 --> 00:02:22,516 Speaker 1: The roadster was sleek and fast, It had a range 29 00:02:22,556 --> 00:02:25,676 Speaker 1: of something like two hundred miles. True, it cost about 30 00:02:25,716 --> 00:02:29,196 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars, but that was supposedly part of 31 00:02:29,196 --> 00:02:32,356 Speaker 1: the plan. Make electric cars sexy, sell a bunch to 32 00:02:32,516 --> 00:02:35,036 Speaker 1: very rich people, and use that money to build a 33 00:02:35,076 --> 00:02:39,116 Speaker 1: more affordable car. Hollywood A listers signed up, as Musk 34 00:02:39,316 --> 00:02:44,356 Speaker 1: told NPR George Clooney, there's the founders of Google, LARRYN. Sergay, 35 00:02:45,276 --> 00:02:50,236 Speaker 1: what's the name of Lee Flee fla chollieps about a 36 00:02:50,276 --> 00:02:53,916 Speaker 1: car Tesla when it launched. That first car Tesla was 37 00:02:53,956 --> 00:02:58,476 Speaker 1: a great story, something genuinely new and not some ethereal 38 00:02:58,556 --> 00:03:03,556 Speaker 1: thing like Facebook, a physical thing, an engineering marvel. But 39 00:03:03,796 --> 00:03:09,716 Speaker 1: Musk was a better story. Young, handsome, dashing Thomason meets 40 00:03:09,716 --> 00:03:14,076 Speaker 1: Henry Ford meets Elvis Presley with a little Dick cavit 41 00:03:14,076 --> 00:03:19,676 Speaker 1: tossed in debonair. He'd already disrupted banking and aerospace, now 42 00:03:19,756 --> 00:03:23,556 Speaker 1: the automobile industry. He wasn't just selling cars to celebrities. 43 00:03:24,116 --> 00:03:27,116 Speaker 1: He had become one or no where. He was becoming 44 00:03:27,156 --> 00:03:32,076 Speaker 1: something more. Here's how he talked about himself. Then, what 45 00:03:32,116 --> 00:03:36,356 Speaker 1: I'm good at is, well, I think I'm good at 46 00:03:37,156 --> 00:03:41,316 Speaker 1: inventing solutions to problems. Things seem barely obvious to me 47 00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:46,956 Speaker 1: that are clearly not obvious to most people. So, and 48 00:03:47,076 --> 00:03:49,796 Speaker 1: I'm not really trying to do it or anything. I 49 00:03:49,836 --> 00:03:52,276 Speaker 1: just just seemed like, I don't know, It's just like 50 00:03:52,356 --> 00:03:56,036 Speaker 1: to see the truth of things, and others seemed less 51 00:03:56,036 --> 00:04:02,116 Speaker 1: able to do so. Elon Musk was becoming a superhero. 52 00:04:09,276 --> 00:04:14,156 Speaker 1: Time on the Evening Rocket How Elon Musk became Iron 53 00:04:14,196 --> 00:04:18,716 Speaker 1: Man CEO of Tessa Motors. He's the real life Tony Stark. 54 00:04:18,876 --> 00:04:24,756 Speaker 1: This guy, please welcome. Elon Musk, the Silicon Valley entrepreneur 55 00:04:24,796 --> 00:04:29,196 Speaker 1: as superhero is an interesting historical turn, one more way 56 00:04:29,236 --> 00:04:32,916 Speaker 1: in which Musk's brand of capitalism is tied to science fiction. 57 00:04:33,756 --> 00:04:35,716 Speaker 1: But this episode, I want to be gained by taking 58 00:04:35,756 --> 00:04:38,996 Speaker 1: a look at iron Man's origins with the US military 59 00:04:39,476 --> 00:04:44,756 Speaker 1: during the Cold War. Oh oh, what is the most breathtaking, 60 00:04:45,076 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 1: most sensational superhero of all? Iron Man? Marvel Comics introduced 61 00:04:51,596 --> 00:04:54,716 Speaker 1: iron Man in nineteen sixty three during the Vietnam War. 62 00:04:55,276 --> 00:05:00,716 Speaker 1: Rich handsome, known as a glamorous playboy, constantly in the 63 00:05:00,836 --> 00:05:07,316 Speaker 1: company of beautiful a daring women. Look, there's Tony Stark. 64 00:05:07,316 --> 00:05:12,636 Speaker 1: He's the dreamiest thing side of work cuts. Yes, Anthony 65 00:05:12,716 --> 00:05:18,116 Speaker 1: Stock has both a sophesticut and as scientist, a millionaire 66 00:05:18,276 --> 00:05:22,356 Speaker 1: bachelor as much at home in a laboratory as an 67 00:05:22,436 --> 00:05:26,316 Speaker 1: high society Stark travels to Vietnam to test some new 68 00:05:26,356 --> 00:05:29,636 Speaker 1: tech in the jungle, he trips and sets off an 69 00:05:29,676 --> 00:05:33,836 Speaker 1: explosive and wakes up in captivity to a communist. Heated 70 00:05:33,876 --> 00:05:37,276 Speaker 1: by a fellow captive and elderly physicist, he sets to 71 00:05:37,276 --> 00:05:41,236 Speaker 1: work building a device to save his life. I've done 72 00:05:41,276 --> 00:05:45,036 Speaker 1: extensive work with transistors. I can design them in any 73 00:05:45,116 --> 00:05:48,316 Speaker 1: size to perform any function. In the world of iron Man, 74 00:05:48,436 --> 00:05:52,516 Speaker 1: you take technology on faith it works. But this man 75 00:05:52,836 --> 00:05:57,236 Speaker 1: who seems so fortunate, who's envied by millions, is so 76 00:05:57,676 --> 00:06:04,916 Speaker 1: destined to become the most tragic figure Earth. Stanley, who 77 00:06:04,956 --> 00:06:08,036 Speaker 1: created the character, said later that comic book readers hated 78 00:06:08,076 --> 00:06:10,996 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, so he created a superhero who was 79 00:06:11,036 --> 00:06:14,196 Speaker 1: a military contractor on a kind of a dare. So 80 00:06:14,476 --> 00:06:16,556 Speaker 1: he said, I'm going to come up with a character 81 00:06:16,956 --> 00:06:21,156 Speaker 1: who represents everything everybody hates it. I'm going to shove 82 00:06:21,196 --> 00:06:25,916 Speaker 1: it down their throats. But earlier he told a different story. 83 00:06:26,316 --> 00:06:29,396 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty three, Lee said most Americans thought that 84 00:06:29,436 --> 00:06:32,196 Speaker 1: what was going on between North and South Vietnam was 85 00:06:32,236 --> 00:06:35,436 Speaker 1: a pretty straightforward good versus evil story, and would have 86 00:06:35,436 --> 00:06:38,876 Speaker 1: thought of Tony Stark as the good guy. Here. Still, 87 00:06:39,476 --> 00:06:43,396 Speaker 1: Tony Stark was a tragic figure, invincible but trapped in 88 00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:51,756 Speaker 1: a machine of his own making. In two thousand and eight, 89 00:06:51,836 --> 00:06:54,716 Speaker 1: Marvel reimagined that tragedy, who would have brought out what 90 00:06:54,756 --> 00:06:57,916 Speaker 1: would become some of the highest grossing Marvel superhero movies 91 00:06:57,956 --> 00:07:02,036 Speaker 1: of all time, The Iron Man franchise, produced by Paramount 92 00:07:02,076 --> 00:07:11,516 Speaker 1: and starring Robert Downey Jr. Tony Stark's fusionary us. Today, 93 00:07:11,716 --> 00:07:14,676 Speaker 1: Tony Stark has changed the face of the weapons industry 94 00:07:15,076 --> 00:07:19,476 Speaker 1: by ensuring freedom and protecting America and her interests around 95 00:07:19,476 --> 00:07:22,116 Speaker 1: the globe. The Ironman films were written by a guy 96 00:07:22,196 --> 00:07:25,716 Speaker 1: named John Favreau. While Favreau was developing the character of 97 00:07:25,756 --> 00:07:29,556 Speaker 1: Tony Stark, he met with Elon Musk. At age four, 98 00:07:29,636 --> 00:07:33,196 Speaker 1: he built his first circuit board, at age six, his 99 00:07:33,276 --> 00:07:37,596 Speaker 1: first engine, and at seventeen he graduated Sola cum laude 100 00:07:37,756 --> 00:07:42,876 Speaker 1: from MIT. Musk received delivery of the very first Tesla roadster. 101 00:07:43,236 --> 00:07:46,796 Speaker 1: In February two thousand and eight, John Favreau bought a 102 00:07:46,836 --> 00:07:51,076 Speaker 1: Tesla two. The first Iron Man movie hit theaters three 103 00:07:51,076 --> 00:07:54,036 Speaker 1: months later iron Man in the Tesla roll out, it 104 00:07:54,076 --> 00:07:56,916 Speaker 1: was like a double feature. Boy Wonder grows up to 105 00:07:56,956 --> 00:07:59,556 Speaker 1: save the world by building new machines and revels in 106 00:07:59,636 --> 00:08:03,196 Speaker 1: his own celebrity sick if I take a picture with you? Yes, 107 00:08:03,796 --> 00:08:08,716 Speaker 1: that's very cool. This too, seems to come from Musk's backstory. 108 00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:11,716 Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety nine, after Musk made his first 109 00:08:11,796 --> 00:08:14,956 Speaker 1: millions from x dot com and PayPal, he was already 110 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:18,316 Speaker 1: keen to become a celebrity. I like to only cover 111 00:08:18,516 --> 00:08:23,796 Speaker 1: Rolling Start better. After Iron Man came out, Musk was 112 00:08:23,836 --> 00:08:26,996 Speaker 1: on the cover of Rolling Stone. The headline read Elon 113 00:08:27,076 --> 00:08:30,356 Speaker 1: Musk Ak a Tony Stark wants to save the world. 114 00:08:31,476 --> 00:08:34,756 Speaker 1: Musk and Stark even look alike. Black jeans, black T shirt, 115 00:08:34,916 --> 00:08:38,596 Speaker 1: maybe a blazer, same haircut, a little stubble. In the 116 00:08:38,676 --> 00:08:42,476 Speaker 1: movie Reboot, Stark Industries is manufacturing weapons to be used 117 00:08:42,556 --> 00:08:46,996 Speaker 1: not fighting communists in Vietnam, but fighting terrorists in Afghanistan. 118 00:08:47,796 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 1: Tony Stark is super flashy. Tell you what, throw a 119 00:08:51,996 --> 00:08:54,356 Speaker 1: little hot rod red in there. Yes, I should helping 120 00:08:54,396 --> 00:08:58,796 Speaker 1: keep a low profile. If Elon Musk influenced Tony Stark, 121 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:02,556 Speaker 1: pretty soon, Tony Stark seems to have begun to influence 122 00:09:02,596 --> 00:09:07,676 Speaker 1: Elon Musk before Iron Man Musk and interviews was modest. 123 00:09:08,076 --> 00:09:10,516 Speaker 1: The things that worry me are we going to make 124 00:09:10,556 --> 00:09:14,316 Speaker 1: a mistake, Our own foolishness, our own errors can hurt us. 125 00:09:14,836 --> 00:09:17,356 Speaker 1: There's a reason why there's an adeomatic expression about rocket 126 00:09:17,396 --> 00:09:21,516 Speaker 1: science being hard. It really is really hard. If you 127 00:09:21,516 --> 00:09:24,076 Speaker 1: are not a musketeer. If you've always scratched your head 128 00:09:24,076 --> 00:09:26,956 Speaker 1: at what people could possibly find appealing about Elon Musk, 129 00:09:27,596 --> 00:09:30,436 Speaker 1: listen to some of these early interviews. He's a smart, 130 00:09:30,596 --> 00:09:35,676 Speaker 1: fascinating person with interesting, if grandiose ideas well. I think 131 00:09:35,796 --> 00:09:38,036 Speaker 1: what I'd like to do is help solve some important problems. 132 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:41,956 Speaker 1: So I think, in a small way, helped build the Internet, 133 00:09:42,556 --> 00:09:46,516 Speaker 1: and then with respect to the global waring problem that 134 00:09:46,596 --> 00:09:50,956 Speaker 1: the transition from away from oil and other hydrocommence to 135 00:09:51,116 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 1: to something which is clean and sustainable. I hope to 136 00:09:53,716 --> 00:09:57,116 Speaker 1: have an impact there. And then with respect to space, 137 00:09:57,356 --> 00:10:01,196 Speaker 1: I hope to have an impact in helping make humanity 138 00:10:01,276 --> 00:10:06,316 Speaker 1: a multiplanet species. But after Iron Man, Elon Musk seemed 139 00:10:06,396 --> 00:10:10,596 Speaker 1: to become more like Tony Stark, flash you brashure. In 140 00:10:10,676 --> 00:10:13,396 Speaker 1: twenty ten, in the second Iron Man movie, he had 141 00:10:13,436 --> 00:10:18,876 Speaker 1: a cameo as himself, how are you Those Merlin engines 142 00:10:18,916 --> 00:10:21,516 Speaker 1: are fantastic. Thank you? Yeah, good idea for electric jet. 143 00:10:21,836 --> 00:10:26,396 Speaker 1: You do, then we'll make it work. Elon Musk became 144 00:10:26,436 --> 00:10:30,156 Speaker 1: a character in the Marvel universe and on the celebrity circuit. 145 00:10:30,636 --> 00:10:33,676 Speaker 1: It seems sometimes as if Musk was resisting this role. 146 00:10:34,036 --> 00:10:37,076 Speaker 1: For instance, in an appearance on The Colbert Report on 147 00:10:37,156 --> 00:10:40,556 Speaker 1: Comedy Central, people have called you the real Tony Stark. 148 00:10:40,956 --> 00:10:43,716 Speaker 1: You're trying to do good things and you're a billionaire. 149 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:46,356 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that seems a little bit like either 150 00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:51,716 Speaker 1: superhero or super villain. You have to choose one. You're 151 00:10:51,756 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 1: trying to do useful things. After a while, though, he 152 00:10:55,676 --> 00:10:58,996 Speaker 1: settled into the role. Okay, I am Iron Man, But 153 00:10:59,276 --> 00:11:02,636 Speaker 1: eventually you can transforms into an earthlike planet. How would 154 00:11:02,676 --> 00:11:06,276 Speaker 1: you do that? You'd warm it up, dropped the nuclear 155 00:11:06,316 --> 00:11:12,956 Speaker 1: weapons over the poles. Was a super villain. Still, I 156 00:11:12,956 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 1: think there's another way to look at this transformation. Maybe 157 00:11:16,156 --> 00:11:21,236 Speaker 1: Elon Musk becoming Tony Stark had been Tesla's plan all along. 158 00:11:21,956 --> 00:11:27,356 Speaker 1: Science fiction as a business strategy, you have to drive it. 159 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:30,196 Speaker 1: I'm not really a car person. I'm more of a 160 00:11:30,236 --> 00:11:35,556 Speaker 1: bicycle person. Ye, put on the brake and push d okay. 161 00:11:35,836 --> 00:11:37,916 Speaker 1: But when I went for a ride in my friend's roadster, 162 00:11:38,516 --> 00:11:40,636 Speaker 1: I'll admit I was super excited to take a turn 163 00:11:40,636 --> 00:11:46,276 Speaker 1: at the wheel. Yeah it is. Yeah, Well, did you 164 00:11:46,356 --> 00:11:48,476 Speaker 1: ride go carts as a kid. Yes, it's like a 165 00:11:48,596 --> 00:11:52,756 Speaker 1: riding a go cart high end. I think I don't 166 00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:57,756 Speaker 1: really really want Yeah, driving the roadster was a blast. 167 00:11:58,476 --> 00:12:01,076 Speaker 1: But I wanted to learn more about Tesla's history, so 168 00:12:01,196 --> 00:12:04,756 Speaker 1: I called up Ed Niedermeyer, a longtime auto industry analyst 169 00:12:05,116 --> 00:12:09,036 Speaker 1: an author of Ludicrous, The Unvarnished Story of Tesla Motors. 170 00:12:09,596 --> 00:12:11,956 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the very earliest investment in 171 00:12:12,036 --> 00:12:14,636 Speaker 1: Tesla was not really an investment in Tesla it was 172 00:12:14,636 --> 00:12:18,236 Speaker 1: an investment in Elon Musk. Musk didn't start the company. 173 00:12:18,756 --> 00:12:21,476 Speaker 1: The earliest news stories about Tesla didn't even mention him 174 00:12:21,556 --> 00:12:23,876 Speaker 1: or else. They talked about him only as an early investor. 175 00:12:24,916 --> 00:12:27,556 Speaker 1: Musk seems to have said about making sure stories about 176 00:12:27,596 --> 00:12:31,476 Speaker 1: Tesla were stories about him. In two thousand and six, 177 00:12:31,756 --> 00:12:36,156 Speaker 1: on the Tesla website, he posted the Secret Teslomotors master Plan, 178 00:12:37,116 --> 00:12:41,996 Speaker 1: a clever manifesto that explained the company's strategy build sports car, 179 00:12:42,356 --> 00:12:44,796 Speaker 1: use that money to build an affordable car, Use that 180 00:12:44,916 --> 00:12:48,316 Speaker 1: money to build an even more affordable car. While doing above, 181 00:12:48,596 --> 00:12:53,076 Speaker 1: also provide zero emissions electric power generation options. But it 182 00:12:53,196 --> 00:12:55,996 Speaker 1: was also a very canny bit of self puffery. Call 183 00:12:56,076 --> 00:12:59,796 Speaker 1: it the secret Elon Musk master Plan. He introduced himself 184 00:12:59,836 --> 00:13:02,796 Speaker 1: this way, my day job is running a space transportation 185 00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:05,276 Speaker 1: company called SpaceX. But on the side, I am the 186 00:13:05,356 --> 00:13:09,676 Speaker 1: chairman of Teslomotors. And in two thousand and eight, when 187 00:13:09,716 --> 00:13:12,916 Speaker 1: both Tesla and iron Man made the debuts, Musk left 188 00:13:12,996 --> 00:13:18,636 Speaker 1: the conventional mold of the Silicon Valley entrepreneur behind. He 189 00:13:18,796 --> 00:13:21,676 Speaker 1: moved to Los Angeles, which is also where Tony Stark lives. 190 00:13:22,076 --> 00:13:23,716 Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, one of the guys who 191 00:13:23,796 --> 00:13:28,156 Speaker 1: started Tesla sued Musk for, among other things, slander and libel. 192 00:13:28,556 --> 00:13:31,276 Speaker 1: He said that Musk set out to rewrite history by 193 00:13:31,356 --> 00:13:34,756 Speaker 1: claiming he'd founded or created the company. The suit was 194 00:13:34,836 --> 00:13:37,836 Speaker 1: later settled out of court in a resolution that acknowledged 195 00:13:37,916 --> 00:13:43,716 Speaker 1: five co founders of Tesla, including Musk. Meanwhile, though Musk's 196 00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:47,756 Speaker 1: pr stunts generated just the buzz the company needed. A 197 00:13:48,076 --> 00:13:51,716 Speaker 1: big part of Silicon Valley is not just making money. 198 00:13:51,836 --> 00:13:54,276 Speaker 1: Another big part of it is the idea of changing 199 00:13:54,316 --> 00:13:58,276 Speaker 1: the world and making things cool. The reality is that 200 00:13:58,556 --> 00:14:01,236 Speaker 1: the reason Tesla is here today is because Elon Musk 201 00:14:01,396 --> 00:14:06,116 Speaker 1: is a remarkable storyteller. In some ways, what Musk was doing. 202 00:14:06,436 --> 00:14:09,956 Speaker 1: A man becoming a brand is an old game. Colonel 203 00:14:09,996 --> 00:14:13,556 Speaker 1: Sanders is Kentucky Fried Chicken, Lloyd Grossman is his line 204 00:14:13,596 --> 00:14:17,396 Speaker 1: of sauces, and then there's this guy Trump. Steaks are 205 00:14:17,436 --> 00:14:20,156 Speaker 1: the world's greatest steaks, and I mean that in every 206 00:14:20,276 --> 00:14:23,796 Speaker 1: sense of the word. But Musk did something different. Musk 207 00:14:23,996 --> 00:14:28,636 Speaker 1: as Tesla was irreverent, and he was witty, ironic, whip smart. 208 00:14:29,196 --> 00:14:32,956 Speaker 1: The cheekiness of Musk's online persona was new then, even 209 00:14:33,036 --> 00:14:36,556 Speaker 1: if this voice has since become ubiquitous online. Tesco's sassy 210 00:14:36,636 --> 00:14:40,836 Speaker 1: Twitter personality say Musk was sassy and messianic all at once. 211 00:14:41,396 --> 00:14:44,236 Speaker 1: Not the greatest steak in the world, but the steak 212 00:14:44,516 --> 00:14:47,716 Speaker 1: that will save the world. Niedermeyer has gotten a lot 213 00:14:47,796 --> 00:14:51,476 Speaker 1: of harassment for writing about Tesla. I've been labeled by 214 00:14:51,556 --> 00:14:55,076 Speaker 1: the fans and the company itself as a hater or 215 00:14:55,236 --> 00:14:59,276 Speaker 1: you know, someone with potentially nefarious motivations for writing about 216 00:14:59,436 --> 00:15:02,236 Speaker 1: Tesla the way that I do. The reality is I 217 00:15:02,356 --> 00:15:05,876 Speaker 1: wanted the book to capture what I saw as the 218 00:15:05,956 --> 00:15:11,116 Speaker 1: complexity underneath this very polarized discourse about it online. And 219 00:15:11,236 --> 00:15:13,276 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, a lot of that polarization 220 00:15:13,396 --> 00:15:17,316 Speaker 1: has been a conscious strategy. It's absolutely not a coincidence 221 00:15:17,476 --> 00:15:22,436 Speaker 1: that this very polarized culture has has sprouted up around Tesla, 222 00:15:22,476 --> 00:15:24,236 Speaker 1: and that the fan culture, you know, people call it 223 00:15:24,276 --> 00:15:26,876 Speaker 1: a cult. I think that Musk knows that if you 224 00:15:26,956 --> 00:15:29,876 Speaker 1: can force people to either love him and trust everything 225 00:15:29,956 --> 00:15:33,036 Speaker 1: he says implicitly, or hate him and think he's a 226 00:15:33,116 --> 00:15:36,436 Speaker 1: con man, more people will break his way, and so 227 00:15:36,676 --> 00:15:41,916 Speaker 1: polarization is the strategic advantage to him. Musks fifty five 228 00:15:42,036 --> 00:15:45,436 Speaker 1: million followers on Twitter. He has sued his critics he 229 00:15:45,516 --> 00:15:49,036 Speaker 1: has damned the media. His Twitter followers tend to gang 230 00:15:49,156 --> 00:15:51,916 Speaker 1: up on his critics, especially when those critics are women. 231 00:15:52,796 --> 00:15:56,676 Speaker 1: Musk is always getting into Twitter spats. It's strange. Why 232 00:15:56,796 --> 00:15:59,796 Speaker 1: is this billionaire online all the time, tweeting belligerently about 233 00:15:59,876 --> 00:16:03,556 Speaker 1: mostly nothing? What does he need it? Ed? Niedermeyer has 234 00:16:03,596 --> 00:16:07,876 Speaker 1: a theory. Musk's fans need him to promise the impossible, 235 00:16:09,156 --> 00:16:14,036 Speaker 1: and Musk needs them to give him adulation even if 236 00:16:14,076 --> 00:16:18,396 Speaker 1: he doesn't actually deliver on the impossible. He needs them 237 00:16:18,476 --> 00:16:22,236 Speaker 1: to tend and nurture and grow again. What I think 238 00:16:22,356 --> 00:16:25,116 Speaker 1: ultimately is the most important thing about Tesla, which is 239 00:16:25,276 --> 00:16:28,876 Speaker 1: the narrative and the image. For Niedermeyer, this relationship is 240 00:16:28,876 --> 00:16:32,236 Speaker 1: a consequence of the sort of speculative capitalism that involves 241 00:16:32,316 --> 00:16:36,996 Speaker 1: more speculation than capital. It's a natural outgrowth of the 242 00:16:37,436 --> 00:16:40,316 Speaker 1: venture capital culture of betting on the jockey and not 243 00:16:40,476 --> 00:16:44,156 Speaker 1: the horse. You know, for a venture capital investor, you 244 00:16:44,236 --> 00:16:48,116 Speaker 1: don't always have to build a really sustainably profitable business. 245 00:16:48,676 --> 00:16:51,676 Speaker 1: What you have to do is make sure that at 246 00:16:51,796 --> 00:16:54,556 Speaker 1: some point down the road, you can pass your investment 247 00:16:54,636 --> 00:16:56,716 Speaker 1: off to someone who thinks it's worth a lot of money. 248 00:16:57,316 --> 00:16:59,956 Speaker 1: Tesla almost went bankrupt in two thousand and eight, the 249 00:17:00,036 --> 00:17:02,676 Speaker 1: year iron Man came out. In two thousand and nine, 250 00:17:02,756 --> 00:17:05,076 Speaker 1: it received a four hundred and sixty five million dollars 251 00:17:05,116 --> 00:17:08,156 Speaker 1: loan from the US government. It raised two hundred and 252 00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:11,116 Speaker 1: twenty six million it's IPO in twenty ten, and in 253 00:17:11,196 --> 00:17:14,756 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen paid back its government loan ten years early. 254 00:17:15,516 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, it had its first profitable year. But 255 00:17:18,876 --> 00:17:21,316 Speaker 1: for Niedermeyer, the story of Tesla, which is one of 256 00:17:21,436 --> 00:17:25,876 Speaker 1: engineering virtuosity and against the odd success, is also a 257 00:17:25,916 --> 00:17:30,236 Speaker 1: story of procarity for Tesla and for Musk. Even as 258 00:17:30,356 --> 00:17:31,956 Speaker 1: the richest man in the world, when he you know 259 00:17:32,036 --> 00:17:34,756 Speaker 1: in those days that he is, his position has always 260 00:17:34,796 --> 00:17:39,076 Speaker 1: been incredibly precarious. And it's because fundamentally, you know a 261 00:17:39,196 --> 00:17:42,036 Speaker 1: lot of why he's there. It's not just the narrative, 262 00:17:42,116 --> 00:17:45,396 Speaker 1: but but also it's his risk tolerance. Is an incredibly 263 00:17:45,556 --> 00:17:48,596 Speaker 1: risk tolerant person. And you can look at a lot 264 00:17:48,636 --> 00:17:51,396 Speaker 1: of different decisions the company's made and see that, and 265 00:17:51,676 --> 00:17:55,116 Speaker 1: you know, with risk comes roared, but risk is also 266 00:17:55,276 --> 00:18:02,316 Speaker 1: risky as far as risk goes. The striking thing about 267 00:18:02,356 --> 00:18:05,036 Speaker 1: Tesla to me is how Musk describes it as a 268 00:18:05,076 --> 00:18:08,716 Speaker 1: company out to save the planet from existential risk by 269 00:18:08,796 --> 00:18:14,236 Speaker 1: it avert human extinction. This year, on Earth Day, President 270 00:18:14,276 --> 00:18:16,396 Speaker 1: Biden was at the White House sharing a smut on 271 00:18:16,436 --> 00:18:19,276 Speaker 1: how to avert climate disaster. Well. Elon Musk was at 272 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,356 Speaker 1: the launch of a SpaceX rocket carrying NASA astronauts to 273 00:18:22,436 --> 00:18:26,196 Speaker 1: the International Space Station. The astronauts drove to the launch 274 00:18:26,236 --> 00:18:29,676 Speaker 1: site in Teslas. They each o their own SUV with 275 00:18:29,876 --> 00:18:39,476 Speaker 1: license plates that read Reduce, recycle, and reuse. A key 276 00:18:39,556 --> 00:18:41,796 Speaker 1: story for Musk as a brand is that he's saving 277 00:18:41,836 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 1: the planet and saving humans from extinction. But is he 278 00:18:47,156 --> 00:18:53,116 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is a really difficult one to parse. He's 279 00:18:53,156 --> 00:18:57,956 Speaker 1: been very open and saying that, you know, colonizing space 280 00:18:58,436 --> 00:19:02,516 Speaker 1: is in a sort of a survival strategy, which I 281 00:19:02,676 --> 00:19:05,956 Speaker 1: think is a thought that has a weird amount of 282 00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:08,116 Speaker 1: currency out there in the world, and when you think 283 00:19:08,156 --> 00:19:11,796 Speaker 1: about it, you know, in my view, just just makes 284 00:19:11,956 --> 00:19:15,796 Speaker 1: no sense whatsoever. Elizabeth Colbert is a New Yorker staff 285 00:19:15,836 --> 00:19:19,516 Speaker 1: writer who want appealed Surprise for her book The Sixth Extinction. 286 00:19:19,996 --> 00:19:23,036 Speaker 1: There are a lot of these tech billionaires who are 287 00:19:23,076 --> 00:19:26,036 Speaker 1: interested in space obviously, as you know, and who obviously 288 00:19:26,156 --> 00:19:29,316 Speaker 1: also see it as a big business, and it's hard 289 00:19:29,356 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 1: to pull that apart too. How much of this, you know, 290 00:19:33,156 --> 00:19:36,476 Speaker 1: sort of space exploration hype I'm going to call it, 291 00:19:36,836 --> 00:19:41,556 Speaker 1: is on behalf of very potentially very profitable businesses. And 292 00:19:41,676 --> 00:19:44,396 Speaker 1: how much of it is really this kind of sci 293 00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:50,076 Speaker 1: fi um, you know, escape from Earth fantasy. I really 294 00:19:50,196 --> 00:19:54,036 Speaker 1: don't know. So then why do you call it hype? Well, 295 00:19:54,076 --> 00:19:56,956 Speaker 1: I mean, Elon Musk is constantly telling us, you know, 296 00:19:57,076 --> 00:20:00,716 Speaker 1: when we're going to colonize Mars. But if you ask 297 00:20:00,956 --> 00:20:06,876 Speaker 1: any person seriously involved in space exploration, are we colonizing 298 00:20:06,956 --> 00:20:12,396 Speaker 1: Mars the way Elon mu is constantly proclaiming that we will, 299 00:20:12,556 --> 00:20:16,076 Speaker 1: and within a very short time frame, they will say 300 00:20:16,196 --> 00:20:20,156 Speaker 1: absolutely not. There's absolutely no way that's happening. So then 301 00:20:20,196 --> 00:20:23,276 Speaker 1: there's this other line of thought that I confess myself 302 00:20:23,436 --> 00:20:27,556 Speaker 1: totally perplexed by, which comes from the people who talk 303 00:20:27,596 --> 00:20:33,956 Speaker 1: about human extinction scenarios, and their calculation is sure, they're 304 00:20:33,996 --> 00:20:38,316 Speaker 1: suffering here on Earth, but if we don't go to 305 00:20:38,436 --> 00:20:43,916 Speaker 1: other planets, then humans will become extinct when our planet dies. 306 00:20:44,236 --> 00:20:50,236 Speaker 1: And so against your global suffering of people enduring poverty 307 00:20:50,316 --> 00:20:55,276 Speaker 1: and disease, we count the untold numbers of our human 308 00:20:55,396 --> 00:20:59,396 Speaker 1: descendants whose human potential will be lost if we don't 309 00:20:59,436 --> 00:21:04,676 Speaker 1: go like it's almost a kind of extraterrestrial economics. Have 310 00:21:04,836 --> 00:21:10,116 Speaker 1: you encountered that existential risk argument species that we have 311 00:21:10,316 --> 00:21:13,756 Speaker 1: in the fossil record eventually does go extinct. I'm not 312 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:17,276 Speaker 1: really predicting, you know, human extinction here, but if you 313 00:21:17,356 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 1: look at the record, it's it's pretty much one hundred percent, 314 00:21:20,596 --> 00:21:24,756 Speaker 1: you know, over time. So the idea that humans Homo 315 00:21:24,836 --> 00:21:28,116 Speaker 1: sapiens are going to be around for the end of 316 00:21:28,236 --> 00:21:32,356 Speaker 1: the planet Earth as a habitable planet, that's so crazily 317 00:21:33,156 --> 00:21:35,516 Speaker 1: at odds with as I say, what we know about 318 00:21:35,556 --> 00:21:38,716 Speaker 1: the history of life, so so embedded in that is 319 00:21:38,756 --> 00:21:45,076 Speaker 1: this notion of humans as completely separate, completely divorced from 320 00:21:45,396 --> 00:21:51,036 Speaker 1: evolutionary history and facing the shining future on other planets. 321 00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:56,236 Speaker 1: And you know, that is a really interesting idea. It's 322 00:21:56,276 --> 00:21:59,876 Speaker 1: not one that I find very plausible. I called Colbert 323 00:21:59,916 --> 00:22:02,196 Speaker 1: to ask her about Tesla, but we ended up talking 324 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:04,836 Speaker 1: a lot about SpaceX, since it can be difficult to 325 00:22:04,956 --> 00:22:08,436 Speaker 1: pull these two visions of the future apart. What struck 326 00:22:08,516 --> 00:22:11,516 Speaker 1: me most talking with Colbert were her observations about the 327 00:22:11,596 --> 00:22:16,236 Speaker 1: internal contradictions of Muscism. Earlier this year, Musk announced that 328 00:22:16,316 --> 00:22:19,396 Speaker 1: Tesla would accept bitcoin from people to pay for their Tesla's, 329 00:22:19,876 --> 00:22:22,716 Speaker 1: and the Tesla itself had purchased one point five billion 330 00:22:22,756 --> 00:22:27,196 Speaker 1: dollars worth of bitcoin. The price of bitcoin jumped. Musk 331 00:22:27,236 --> 00:22:31,756 Speaker 1: has been an incredibly avid proponent of cryptocurrencies. Bitcoins a 332 00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:38,796 Speaker 1: terribly energy intensive cryptocurrency. Bitcoin mining nowadays is using a 333 00:22:39,276 --> 00:22:44,196 Speaker 1: roughly one hundred and thirty terror watt hours of electricity 334 00:22:44,916 --> 00:22:49,756 Speaker 1: per year, and that's roughly the energy consumption of a 335 00:22:49,876 --> 00:22:54,756 Speaker 1: country like Sweden. So you know, the internal inconsistencies here, 336 00:22:55,076 --> 00:22:58,756 Speaker 1: I think prevent him from being a particularly good spokesman 337 00:22:59,276 --> 00:23:03,316 Speaker 1: for environmental causes. Just doesn't suggest that his ultimate goal 338 00:23:03,996 --> 00:23:07,756 Speaker 1: is really driving carbon emissions down. The day I talked 339 00:23:07,756 --> 00:23:09,996 Speaker 1: to Colbert, she'd just published a piece in The New 340 00:23:10,076 --> 00:23:14,756 Speaker 1: Yorker about Tesla's bitcoin polluting. Days later, must announced that 341 00:23:14,836 --> 00:23:17,276 Speaker 1: he changed his mind. You could no longer buy a 342 00:23:17,356 --> 00:23:20,996 Speaker 1: Tesla with bitcoin. Still, a lot of commentators pointed out 343 00:23:21,036 --> 00:23:23,516 Speaker 1: that there really was no excuse for Musk's decisions to 344 00:23:23,596 --> 00:23:26,116 Speaker 1: accept bitcoin in the first place. How could he not 345 00:23:26,236 --> 00:23:28,996 Speaker 1: have known that bitcoin is mostly mined in China and 346 00:23:29,156 --> 00:23:32,436 Speaker 1: mostly on servers fueled by coal. A writer for The 347 00:23:32,476 --> 00:23:35,476 Speaker 1: Washington Post ask had must been on a multi year 348 00:23:35,596 --> 00:23:40,516 Speaker 1: news fast. In any case, the essential tenant of Muskism remained, 349 00:23:41,156 --> 00:23:44,356 Speaker 1: every problem can be solved with technology. It's a reigning 350 00:23:44,396 --> 00:23:48,076 Speaker 1: philosophy of iron Man, too, the motto of Stark Industries. 351 00:23:50,276 --> 00:23:56,676 Speaker 1: Everything is achievable through technology, better living, robust health. Everything 352 00:23:56,716 --> 00:24:00,396 Speaker 1: can also be wrecked through technology. Elizabeth Colbert's new book 353 00:24:00,636 --> 00:24:04,156 Speaker 1: Under a White Sky asks whether we have engineered ourselves 354 00:24:04,236 --> 00:24:07,876 Speaker 1: so deeply into so many problems, especially climate change, that 355 00:24:07,996 --> 00:24:10,076 Speaker 1: at this point the only way forward is to try 356 00:24:10,116 --> 00:24:14,596 Speaker 1: to engineer ourselves out of them. Stopping carbon emissions is essential, 357 00:24:15,036 --> 00:24:16,836 Speaker 1: but it's not going to be enough. Maybe we need 358 00:24:16,876 --> 00:24:20,796 Speaker 1: to invent machines that can eat carbon. Environmentalism used to 359 00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:24,996 Speaker 1: be largely anti tech, but it's not anymore because maybe 360 00:24:25,116 --> 00:24:28,116 Speaker 1: there's no longer a choice. I don't think there is 361 00:24:28,396 --> 00:24:33,356 Speaker 1: really a sort of anti tech environmentalism these days. But 362 00:24:33,756 --> 00:24:38,156 Speaker 1: there are different strains, and Elon Musk is the avatar 363 00:24:38,556 --> 00:24:41,996 Speaker 1: of the strain that says, well, humans can just do 364 00:24:42,196 --> 00:24:45,756 Speaker 1: anything that we put our minds to. We can colonize mores, 365 00:24:45,876 --> 00:24:48,236 Speaker 1: we can succeed or two out of the atmosphere. There's 366 00:24:48,476 --> 00:24:53,756 Speaker 1: there are no geophysical limits here that we can't overcome. Unfortunately, 367 00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:57,596 Speaker 1: I think that's just not true. We approached Tesla for 368 00:24:57,636 --> 00:25:00,436 Speaker 1: a response to several points raised in the series, but 369 00:25:00,596 --> 00:25:03,076 Speaker 1: at the time of this recording, we haven't received a reply. 370 00:25:06,196 --> 00:25:09,076 Speaker 1: I loved driving the Tesla Roadster, but as I say, 371 00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:11,316 Speaker 1: I'm not much of a car person. I'm more of 372 00:25:11,396 --> 00:25:15,196 Speaker 1: a bicycle person. So is HG. Wells, who once wrote 373 00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:21,236 Speaker 1: cycle tracks will abound in utopia. Alas utopias never coming, 374 00:25:21,836 --> 00:25:26,516 Speaker 1: I'll settle for sustainability. And sustainability will require more than 375 00:25:26,596 --> 00:25:29,876 Speaker 1: just switching out every petrol powered car for an electric car. 376 00:25:30,556 --> 00:25:33,076 Speaker 1: They only need to be fewer cars and more bicycles, 377 00:25:33,196 --> 00:25:38,516 Speaker 1: pedestrians and public transit, and more renewable energy. But Tesla 378 00:25:38,836 --> 00:25:43,076 Speaker 1: is pioneering that too. Beyond producing electric cars and making 379 00:25:43,116 --> 00:25:46,636 Speaker 1: them thrilling, Tesla has done a whole lot for renewable energy, 380 00:25:46,996 --> 00:25:50,476 Speaker 1: especially with its battery technology. After all, the last part 381 00:25:50,516 --> 00:25:53,916 Speaker 1: of the company's secret master plan had always been provide 382 00:25:53,996 --> 00:25:59,796 Speaker 1: zero emission electric power generation options. In twenty seventeen, after 383 00:25:59,916 --> 00:26:03,436 Speaker 1: a statewide power outage in South Australia, Tesla won a 384 00:26:03,516 --> 00:26:06,236 Speaker 1: bid to design a battery system for this date and 385 00:26:06,436 --> 00:26:09,396 Speaker 1: promise to install it in a hundred days. As Musk 386 00:26:09,436 --> 00:26:12,036 Speaker 1: explain at a press conference, this is going to be 387 00:26:12,196 --> 00:26:15,676 Speaker 1: the largest matter translation in the world by a significant margin. 388 00:26:16,396 --> 00:26:18,596 Speaker 1: We actually insisted in doing the contract that we'd be 389 00:26:18,676 --> 00:26:21,276 Speaker 1: held to the one hundred days or it's free. This 390 00:26:21,436 --> 00:26:24,636 Speaker 1: system will be three times more powerful than any system 391 00:26:24,836 --> 00:26:28,796 Speaker 1: on Earth. This is not like a minorphoora into the frontier. 392 00:26:28,876 --> 00:26:31,716 Speaker 1: This is like going three times further than anyone's gone before. 393 00:26:32,356 --> 00:26:36,356 Speaker 1: Tesla delivered in sixty three days. The system's still working 394 00:26:36,516 --> 00:26:42,916 Speaker 1: fantastically well for South Australians. Energy is cheaper and more reliable. Somehow, 395 00:26:43,076 --> 00:26:45,516 Speaker 1: this sort of thing never gets the Iron Man treatment. 396 00:26:45,556 --> 00:26:49,196 Speaker 1: It's not sexy. It didn't involve Hollywood or celebrities. It 397 00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:51,916 Speaker 1: didn't turn on Reddit, it didn't end in a Twitter feud. 398 00:26:52,396 --> 00:26:55,196 Speaker 1: It wasn't even a science fiction fantasy, and it did 399 00:26:55,276 --> 00:26:58,916 Speaker 1: not save the planet. It was a smart renewable energy 400 00:26:58,996 --> 00:27:02,396 Speaker 1: partnership that went well. There was really this opportunity to 401 00:27:02,516 --> 00:27:05,956 Speaker 1: make a significant statement about renewable energy to the world, 402 00:27:06,036 --> 00:27:09,436 Speaker 1: to show that you can really do a heavy duty, 403 00:27:09,556 --> 00:27:14,516 Speaker 1: large scale, utility level battery system, and that South Australia 404 00:27:14,796 --> 00:27:22,236 Speaker 1: was up with a challenge a public minded infrastructure project. 405 00:27:22,876 --> 00:27:26,676 Speaker 1: It might just be the most significant thing Tesla has 406 00:27:26,716 --> 00:27:36,516 Speaker 1: ever done. Next time on the Evening Rocket will blast 407 00:27:36,596 --> 00:27:39,476 Speaker 1: off to a different past to the science fiction vision 408 00:27:39,476 --> 00:27:49,636 Speaker 1: of the future that Silicon Valley left behind. The Evening 409 00:27:49,716 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 1: Rocket was written and read by New Gillipour for the BBC. 410 00:27:53,676 --> 00:27:56,676 Speaker 1: The Evening Rocket was produced by viv Jones. Oliver Riskin 411 00:27:56,716 --> 00:27:59,756 Speaker 1: Cuts was the researcher. The editor was Hugh Levenson. The 412 00:27:59,796 --> 00:28:03,556 Speaker 1: commissioning editor was Dan clark I. Oonah Hammond was production coordinator. 413 00:28:03,996 --> 00:28:06,636 Speaker 1: Mixing by Graham put a foot In, original music by 414 00:28:06,676 --> 00:28:10,196 Speaker 1: Corntith for Pushkin. It was produced by Sophie Crane mckibbon 415 00:28:10,396 --> 00:28:13,276 Speaker 1: and Jake Gorski, who also did the mix and sound design. 416 00:28:13,636 --> 00:28:17,636 Speaker 1: Production support from Ben Nattapafrick. Our executive producer is Neil o'bell. 417 00:28:17,916 --> 00:28:22,596 Speaker 1: Our operations team includes Danielle Lakhan, Maya Kanig and Carly Mgliori. 418 00:28:22,876 --> 00:28:26,876 Speaker 1: Thanks also to John Schnar's, Jacob Weisberg, Maggie Taylor, Heather Faine, 419 00:28:27,156 --> 00:28:28,956 Speaker 1: Nicole Moreno and Eric Sandler.