WEBVTT - The Aftermath [11] 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.520 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:07.400 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.480 and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.800 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.599 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:26.800 Michel Pirot, nightclub owner, promised to make revelations about Julian 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:33.440 Melissa's kidnappings, murdered shortly afterwards in a parking lot. Jean 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:37.760 Paul Tamigneaux, acquaintance of de True active in Charlewaugh Carr 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.160 theft ring, told a friend he'd received important information about 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:46.120 the kidnappings. Disappeared shortly afterwards in nineteen ninety five. His 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.280 severed foot was found a year later in a river. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.920 The rest of the body was never recovered. Bruno taglia Ferro, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.240 acquaintance of the True active in Charlewaiugh car theft ring wife, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:58.920 said he was asked to get rid of the car 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.520 used to kidnap U Melissa and that he feared for 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.920 his life. Died under mysterious circumstances. Body was exhumed on 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:11.120 order of Judge Conrad for testing posthumous autopsy. Death declared 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:15.560 as murdered by poisoning. Fabien jo Bards, wife of Bruno 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.160 taglia Ferro, claimed to have found important documents related to 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.960 her husband's murder. Burned to death in a bed soaked 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:28.319 in methanol. Declared a suicide. Ghi Gobel Gendarmes and Garsolonna, 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.520 one of the very few gendarmes to obtain the confidence 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.600 of the parents of Julian Melissa, found dead with a 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.000 bullet in his head the day Operation Othello started. Declared 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.679 a suicide. These are just five of the over twenty 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:46.400 mysterious deaths surrounding the the true affair, and additional reasons 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.840 why many believe there are still powerful people involved who've 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:53.240 never been brought to justice. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:02.760 Champsychopats is somebody who understood emotions, and I told them 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:07.080 it is very exceptional that somebody abducts two children at 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:07.840 the same time. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.040 Should have been the end of it in nineteen eighty six, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.359 but my god, it was just a beginning. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.680 I think Belgium was a paralyzed for perverts in those days. 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:32.400 Welcome to la monstre. I'm your host. Matt Graves, after 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.040 an investigation plagued by incompetence and cover ups, and a 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.359 trial where the judge purposely avoided elements pointing to a 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.720 larger conspiracy mark. The true was sentenced to life without parole, 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:49.440 Michelle Martin to thirty years, l Lievre to twenty five years, 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.799 and Michelle Nihul only got five years for criminal association 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.040 and drug trafficking. The trial of the century was over, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.400 but the country would never be the same. The Gendarmerie 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.200 was discontinued as an institution and Belgian law enforcement was 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:10.520 completely restructured as a direct result of this affair, basically 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.400 the equivalent of shutting down the FBI in the United States. 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.360 If you can imagine that several ministers, police officers, and 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:22.040 magistrates either resigned, were fired, or quit their jobs, and 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.480 millions of Belgians felt their country had covered up or 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:31.080 even participated in the worst crimes imaginable. The aftermath of 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.400 the trial would provide little opportunity for healing, as the 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.760 judicial system would continue to fail the victims and their families. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.520 Michel n Whoul, after serving just a third of his 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:45.120 sentence for drug trafficking, was paroled in two thousand and five. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.720 In twenty twelve, Michen Martin was given early release as well, 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.960 paroled after just serving sixteen years of a thirty year sentence. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.160 Although the conditions of her parole were strict, the public 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:06.320 was outraged, again, taking to the streets and protest. The victims' 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.800 families were also stunned about her early release. The father 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:12.320 of Anne, Paul. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.520 Marschall, thirty year for me was thirty years. It was 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:22.720 very difficult to accept. But now I have to accept 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:28.000 sixteen years, so you can imagine what I am feeling. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.760 Michelle Martin says that after years of psychiatric help, she 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.120 is free of Mark d' true's influence. The crimes the 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.760 pair committed made this country question itself and it is 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.480 questioning itself again now as she enjoys freedom. Emma Murphy 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.280 ITV News, Brussels. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.240 In twenty nineteen, Michel Lalieva was released from prison despite 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.640 appeals from victims families and a protest in Brussels dubbed 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.279 the Black March. He served twenty three of his twenty 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.560 five year sentence. After his release, he moved to a 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.080 neighborhood in Brussels, where it didn't take long for him 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.840 to get recognized. According to reports, he was beaten up 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.320 by a group of neighborhood kids. When Michele Martin was 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.200 released in twenty twelve, the terms were that she would 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:18.120 be confined to the Clarisse Convent in Malonne, near Namur 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.720 in the south of Belgium. After serving ten years under 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.159 strict supervision, she would be eligible for full release with 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.960 no conditions. Just over a month ago, as the first 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.000 episodes of La Monceau were published, Michele Martin was released 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.520 from the monastery with all conditions lifted. She is a 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:41.640 completely free woman today. Jean Lambreck's the father of Eefia, 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.880 said quote, it's clear that she's guilty of much more 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.080 than what the official and public version wants us to believe. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.160 She actively participated in several rapes by drugging the victims. 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.600 She had a serious rap sheet before she even committed 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.600 these crimes, yet she was still released early. This situation 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:07.760 is very depressing. Unquote. Mark the True, still serving a 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.680 life sentence, applied for conditional release in twenty twelve. It 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.120 was rejected, but in twenty thirteen he appealed the decision. 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.080 His mother, who hadn't been heard from since the trial, 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.560 spoke up again, saying quote Mark is not ready to 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.479 be released because he's still trying to blame others for 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.280 what he did. I'm certain that he will start again. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.960 He has no sense of reality. He's a repeat offender 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.960 in his soul, as he's already proven throughout his life unquote. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.600 Shortly after her statement, the tru's appeal was rejected. In 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.359 twenty nineteen, he again applied for conditional release, which required 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:51.640 an examination by a psychiatrists. When the psychiatric report concluded 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.960 that the True remained dangerous and had a psychopathic profile, 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.760 his lawyer, Bruno Dallier dropped the parole request, saying quote, 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:04.479 I must postpone my plans because proposing a credible reclassification 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:09.000 plan with this diagnosis, I really don't see who will accept. 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.120 Dallier also made it clear that he would not give 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:18.520 up on his efforts to free the True, as I 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.560 continued to investigate the loose ends of the de True affair. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.800 The decades long saga has reached the present day and 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.920 were now breaking new ground. A listener of La Monstre 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.880 in Switzerland reached out to tell me about a woman 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.920 named Annika Lucas who shared her experiences with child sex 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.720 trafficking in Belgium in a book published just a few 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.240 months ago. I was able to interview her when she 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.200 came to Europe recently. Annika explained to me that she 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.120 left Belgium in the nineteen eighties to go to the 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.480 United States to escape a child trafficking network. She claims 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:59.520 that this network involved Michel Nihoul. I've been able to 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.440 confirm some parts of her story. I know that she's 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.960 indeed from Belgium, and that she was certainly sexually abused 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.000 as a child, and that she escaped to America, where 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.800 she's been living since the nineteen eighties. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.720 Yes, I was born in Belgium, in Brussels, and my 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.000 mother was single, and when I was three she married 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:23.560 someone in Flanders. Now she abused me from childhood. I 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:28.360 started first with the and her husband, who had been 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.800 taking me on little outings. 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:32.559 There were always other children there. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.320 They took me the first time into what was an orgy, 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:43.439 and that was a horrific experience. I was also that 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:49.920 same night very graphically threatened to make sure I would 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:50.959 never speak up. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.000 I wanted to speak to Anika because she claims to 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.280 have direct experience with Michelle, who way back in the 0:08:58.320 --> 0:08:59.720 nineteen seventies. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:01.960 The boss of the network. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:09.800 He gifted me to an international networker and that man 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.400 ended up taking an interest in me and taking me 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.960 with him to train me. So I was nine years 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.520 old when this happened, and taken him to different places 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.280 in on the East Coast in the United States to 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.240 learn about that world. That year s nineteen seventy two, 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:34.839 taken to different places, especially Germany. But still even though 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.000 I was gone the entire summer of nineteen seventy two, 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.560 I still would come back and go to school. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.160 I was from then on used in the. 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:49.000 Network by Belgian network, mostly for the VIP guests that 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.960 would come from then on. So nineteen seventy two to 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:59.079 nineteen seventy four, when I was rescued by someone from 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.120 the inside, it was really a last minute decision on 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:03.680 his part. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.000 It wasn't meant to happen. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.079 I was in fact taken away to be tortured. That 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.000 the torture was led by the person I knew as 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.400 the middleman for a lot of the orgies, someone who 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:21.280 was very happy, the brown nose with the VIPs the network, Michelle, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.000 who was in charge. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.000 I was given to him. He was the middleman, so 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.240 he was rather new. 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.240 He probably I started seeing him maybe nineteen seventy two, 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.480 nineteen seventy three. Around then he started showing up, but 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.840 very quickly he became sort of indispensable as the middleman 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.360 that he dealt with the pimps. He dealt with the 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.920 parents sometimes if they were pimps, he dealt with the children. 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.560 He arranged everything for the VIPs. 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:53.440 He had no qualms. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.040 I got by, tried to survive a little bit by 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.280 connecting to the human inside and the man, well not 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:03.000 not with me whole. 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.440 It wasn't possible. It was not that there's no human there, 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.199 but it was. He was so. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:13.000 Flat and his jokes were beyond cruel, you know, they 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.400 were so empty. But oh about the w h most 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:21.080 horrific things imaginable, So no way to get through. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.520 I couldn't get through to him, to have him as 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:25.040 a person. 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:27.680 Was he also involved in the abuse. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.840 So I saw him more like a business person, arranging 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.480 everything until. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.400 For punishment the who has me. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.839 I'm the one who's being punished, But other children are 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:47.640 there as well, and so he is basically terrorizing us 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:55.640 children beyond the imaginable, in order to make sure that 0:11:55.679 --> 0:12:02.520 we will never ask the clients and quotes anything the 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:07.360 perpetrators that we will never express any need of our own, 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.360 that we will just be there and just shut up 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.600 and just do what, you know, what we're meant to 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.200 do for them. 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.160 In nineteen seventy three, ni who would have been thirty 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:22.800 two years old, Anika described a horrifying experience that she 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.880 says she suffered at his hands. What you're about to 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.640 hear is extremely disturbing. 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.839 And Nihu grabbed my arm like that and twisted it, 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.360 and then he put a cigarette out on my arm, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.880 which is this scar right here. And I want to 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.000 show you because when you see it like this, it's 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.840 circular because he had my arm like that. But when 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.560 you stretch the arm out, as you can see, it's not. 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:57.280 It's a line stretches out. I was taken away into 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:02.360 a separate little room, a secret room, I think, and tortured, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:10.320 and four I think four children who were also like 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.920 myself in this network were taken. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.960 Also and had to torture me. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.760 So I was laid out and strapped down, and then 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:24.160 he who forced those children to torture me with various 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.640 There was a crate underneath this very large butcher's block 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:32.200 very old underneath was it like a crate, an apple 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.000 crate or something which which had various you know, he 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.720 gave a fish hook to one child, he gave a 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:44.200 screwdriver to another child, he gave a penknife to another child. 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.800 He gave well various things along during the time that 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.599 I was there, and you know, forced them to to 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.560 torture me, but clearly they did not want to do yes, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.280 and he of course participated. 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:00.640 He of course was doing it too. 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:04.559 And I understand that people don't believe me, and I 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:10.000 don't take well. I understand it because I think that 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.880 if you allow this in, it's going to challenge your 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.640 worldview potentially very strongly. You're going to say the world 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.280 is absolutely not what I thought it was, and you 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.720 may sink into despair or a depression from allowing this 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:30.520 reality in. So ultimately people have to do their own 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.680 work in order to accept that. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.080 This is true and it is not. 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.960 It may seem really hopeless when you allow it in, 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.640 but it really is for the betterment of humanity to 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.880 go through that phase yourself and to allow that pain in. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.560 Anaka's point about allowing this reality into one's worldview resonates 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.440 with me. Facing the reality of child's sex abuse is 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.560 so horrific and disturbing that most of us tend to 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.840 just block it out of our thought plane. However, it 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.280 happens every single day, and ignoring it only helps to 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:21.920 perpetuate this awful perversion. Michelle Nihull's name has continued to 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.400 pop up over and over again in this affair from 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.440 several different accusers. To dig deeper, I spoke with one 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.200 of the key journalists who initially investigated his possible involvement 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.800 with Regina Loof and the other ex witnesses, Marie Jeanne 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:36.600 van Hayswick. 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:42.160 We realized quite quickly that Nil was involved with a 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.320 lot of fraud before he was arrested in ninety six. 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.520 It was a big surprise that he had never been 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:58.000 judged for the cases in the eighties. It wasn't until 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.560 he was arrested in ninety six that he was actually 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.479 convicted for these past fraud cases. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.280 When who was arrested in nineteen ninety six under suspicion 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:13.040 of involvement with the Truth crimes, it was discovered that 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.560 he had been investigated for a fraud case in nineteen 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.160 eighty nine, but that charges had never been brought. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.280 Some people said, why is it that Nil has stopped 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:31.080 being judged in those cases? That's very strange. So we 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.080 discovered but later that the judge for those cases was 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:42.480 Jean Marchvanespin. Is this the explanation because we discover later 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:47.760 that the Jean Marchvanespin has a lot of things with 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:54.040 n Michelle Hue and his ex wife. Abut the sister 0:16:54.200 --> 0:17:00.800 of the judge is the godmother of Niel's son. That's 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:05.400 very strange. The cases had been placed at the bottom 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.920 of a trower and inure by Judge van Aspin. If 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:14.240 he had not been arrested, Nil would never be judged 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.439 for those case. 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.200 Marie Jeanne is pointing out that the judge van Espin 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.359 was in a difficult position from the start, as it 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.199 could appear that he didn't pursue charges that should have 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.840 already been brought against Mihul for fraud. This is the 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.080 same judge who was originally responsible for the infamous Champaignner 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:40.240 cold case. So when Regina Loof's interrogation pointed investigators back 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.080 to this case, it went back to Judge van Espin, 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.000 who quickly moved to try to shut it down. The 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.879 ex gendarme Amy Bill, who was taken off of the 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.440 Regina Loof case, still insists to this day that Judge 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.840 Van Espen closed them down to protect Michelle Nihul. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:03.560 So when the case of the Champaigner was open again, 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:09.240 Sean McVan spent so immediately that new and BUTI were 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:15.119 named by Regina Luche And I suppose he was in 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:22.680 danger because if those links were discovered by the the gendarme, 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:29.720 why didn't he tell those things sooner? So I think 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:38.520 it was difficult for him to admit. I published a 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.440 paper who proved that he was the lawyer of Anibouti 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.679 in the year eighty three, and a few days later 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:48.000 he decided to resign. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.520 I was able to track down the award winning journalist 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.719 Alanka Frankiel, who made a documentary about Belgium's X files 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.080 for the BBC and wrote incisively about the affair in 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.679 the Guardian newspaper. During her reporting, she actually met with 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.200 me who interviewed him well. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.960 I initially was sent over just after nine to eleven 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.159 to have a look into this bizarre story. Then the 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:18.040 BBC decided to commission the film, so one needed to 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:24.000 be very very careful not to get distracted from the 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:30.159 main core of the story, which was to determine whether 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.840 it was true as the authorities claimed that Dutrue was 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.280 acting alone, or whether he was part of a network 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:43.400 which was being protected or covered up by those authorities. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:50.159 And pretty early on the evidence brought me to the 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:55.159 associates of Dutrue, which included Weinstein, who by then I 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.280 think was dead, Liliev, who I think by then at 0:19:58.320 --> 0:19:59.000 that time was. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.120 In jail, and. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:11.919 Michelle Nihoul, who was regarded as possibly the fixer and 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:20.200 the person who had commissioned to true to kidnap girls 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:27.560 for others to use. So we interviewed various survivors and victims, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:33.919 one of whom mentioned Nihul. He'd been in trouble for 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.760 various crimes. He'd spent some time in jail, but when 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:42.280 I invited him us to meet me, it took a while, 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:44.080 as far as I remember, but he agreed and we 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:50.160 met in a restaurant and he walked in on crutches. 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.679 He'd had some kind of I think medical treatment. He 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:59.800 was a smallish, fat man, rather sweaty, but very enthusiastic 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.119 to meet me and my team, my producer, and he 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.280 bustled in and wrought I am the monster of Belgium. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.280 It was a kind of a joke, I think he thought, 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:15.359 and he was sort of enjoying the fact that we 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.840 had sought him because of that, that he was the 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.920 monster of Belgium. He was quite happy to say that, 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.679 of course, he denied any involvement in the crimes, but 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.720 he also said that he didn't think he would ever 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:35.679 come to court, no jury would ever be asked to 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.840 decide whether he was guilty or innocent, because he claimed 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.920 that if that happened, he would name names, and too 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:47.200 many important people would be exposed, so that the entire 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:51.920 establishment in Belgium would ensure that he was never brought 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.240 to trial. After he'd told me all this, I had 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.560 asked whether he would consider doing an interview with us 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:02.200 on camera, and he started to sort of be a 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:05.520 bit playful and flirtatious and started to tickle me and 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:10.919 started to push me over, and I've suddenly found myself 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.840 sort of struggling to stay upright because he was pretty 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:15.639 well on top of me in the booth in the 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:17.879 restaurant where we were, and I had to push him off. 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.800 I had to appeal to my colleague to help me 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.760 get him off me, and that once they'd done that, 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:27.520 he announced that, yes, you were doing an interview, but 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.840 for one thousand pounds I think it was, and I 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:37.040 had to decline because we don't pay for interviews, and 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:41.560 to be honest, I was pretty pleased to say goodbye. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.640 I think one of the most confusing aspects of this 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.440 film and this story was that there was a lot 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:54.600 of circumstantial evidence, a lot of horror, a lot of 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.800 emotion attached to the events that had taken place, not 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.000 just the killing of the young children or the killing 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:06.359 of the older girls, the discovery of the two girls 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:11.240 who were discovered alive, but also the number of people 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:15.840 somehow circulating around this story who met their deaths very 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.159 early in a mysterious way. I think, whether nine or 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:23.440 ten people. And of course it's a very difficult thing. 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:29.520 You can't prove those links. But it felt extremely suspicious 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:34.480 that so many people associated with the case were being 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:40.040 wiped out. So wherever you went, nothing squared. But the 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:41.919 problem with it was that there was a lot that 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:47.879 was inconclusive, and therefore, when you obviously finish filming after 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.160 your time is up and you don't have an open 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:56.000 and shutcase. It's quite frustrating, and it's interesting that all 0:23:56.040 --> 0:24:02.120 these years later, this case is still in a sense unresolved. 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:13.159 There's another interesting detail again, linking Nicoll with a horrifying 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:17.360 champignonair case from the eighties. It's something almost no one 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:20.160 knows about, even people with deep knowledge of the case. 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:25.080 After the gruesome murder of Christine Vanez, police found letters 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:28.160 she had exchanged with a man named Pascal la Marque, 0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:30.960 who she'd met on a train shortly before her murder. 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:35.120 Marie Jeanne explains Pascal. 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:41.000 La Marque is another strange character in the entourage of 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:45.520 Christine Vanis, the victim of the murder of the Champignie. 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:52.879 It seems that they met on the train. It was 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:56.800 in the fall of eighty three, a few months before 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:02.320 Christine's death. At that time, Lamarque was under a conviction 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:07.719 that sent him to prison. So it changes a dozen 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:11.080 letters they only met one time. 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:15.800 It seems much attention was paid to these letters between 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.320 Christine and Pascal Lamarque because he was a known criminal 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:23.760 with a long rap sheet. In the letters, Christine writes 0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:26.280 about having a difficult time and that she was going 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:29.399 to leave and change her life, and she wrote, quote, 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:32.520 I beg you please don't ask me where I'm going, 0:25:33.000 --> 0:25:35.280 why I'm going, and why I won't be able to 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:40.199 write you anymore unquote. Pascal Lamarque was in prison at 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.520 the time she was murdered, so he was ruled out 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:44.399 as a suspect. 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:48.600 But what do we discover then? Pascal Lamarck was in 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:54.600 fact a relation of Michelle Nioul. His name appears in 0:25:54.640 --> 0:26:01.880 a confidential Belgian state security document which exposes the connections 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:06.960 of Michelle Newell and Anibouti. And the criminal record of 0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:11.800 Pascal lamarch is the longest of all the people mentioned 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:18.320 in this list. Eleven conviction for theft with violence, rape 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:26.280 of miners and so on. So we had some exchange 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:30.920 with Pascal Lamarck in the the years ninety eight, and 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.760 he said, of course, he said he has nothing to 0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:40.080 do with Christine's death. He was in prison, and he 0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:44.919 said he remembered maybe Christine matt Nihull in the radio 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:48.040 radioactivity where new work at the time. 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:52.439 Altho only who evaded justice for his presumed role in 0:26:52.440 --> 0:26:56.080 the True Affair and other sex trafficking accusations. I would 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:59.240 have liked to question him directly about all this, but 0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:03.639 unfortunately he died in twenty nineteen of natural causes at 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:09.320 the age of seventy eight years old. Examining Nihul's possible 0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:13.160 involvement with this affair is nonetheless still important because, as 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.639 I've said many times by now, he represents a potential 0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:21.040 link to a wider network. If the testimonies of Regina 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:25.160 aloof Ana Calucas and several other ex witnesses are true, 0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:28.160 he was a mid level broker in something much larger. 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:33.000 Although a larger cover up and conspiracy may never be proven, 0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:36.520 there are definitely lower level accomplices that have never been 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:41.680 brought to justice. The balding man in his fifties who 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:45.000 participated with Detrue in the rape of the university student 0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:49.120