Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the
Speaker 1: Smoking Red Hot office in Austin, Texas. It is July
Speaker 1: in Texas. We are feeling it.
Speaker 2: I tried to escape it. But do I regret that
Speaker 2: I went on a trip to Sun Valley, Idaho without you?
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. It was so sad. I said to Chris, hey, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have this idea for Sun Valley, and he goes, yes, sorry,
Speaker 2: we go. Then he said it's a girl's trip.
Speaker 1: Can we say who you went with?
Speaker 2: Yes? Well, actually it's so. I think it's very pertinent
Speaker 2: for today's podcast because I went.
Speaker 1: Because we're talking about divorce and relationships and should people
Speaker 1: get remarried.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. When he told me what this topic was,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you. I've come in from this trip hot,
Speaker 2: just like it is here in Austin. My flight was
Speaker 2: so delayed. I was supposed to get home at eight pm.
Speaker 2: I got home at three am, so I'm exhausted. But
Speaker 2: when he told I'm like half delirious. And Chris is
Speaker 2: telling me yesterday the topic is just divorced and like
Speaker 2: whether marriages can last I said, are you trying to
Speaker 2: tell me something?
Speaker 1: First of all, you got home at about two thirty
Speaker 1: in the morning last night and crawled into the room
Speaker 1: from this late flight. I think people should take to
Speaker 1: social media anytime they have a flight that works, because look, everybody,
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of the travelers today, I think everything
Speaker 1: just goes wrong. So now I think the anomaly is
Speaker 1: my flight was on time.
Speaker 2: I like that, and I like that because it's positive.
Speaker 2: I you know what, I did not like take to
Speaker 2: my phone as this was going on, because.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it that I was looking for it.
Speaker 2: Well, I just don't see the point, right, Like, I'm
Speaker 2: very We've talked about this before. When travel isn't going well,
Speaker 2: what can you do? I posted when we were way
Speaker 2: delayed for the Kentucky Derby because it was fun because
Speaker 2: we were drinking and people were getting to know each other.
Speaker 2: It was positive. I don't want to just get on
Speaker 2: my phone and rant about a late flight.
Speaker 1: Everybody's dealing with it, right, So anyway, but yeah, you
Speaker 1: came in and.
Speaker 2: So here's who I visited, which is why it's relevant today.
Speaker 2: I'm still very close with I'm once divorced and I'm
Speaker 2: still very close with my former mother in law and
Speaker 2: my former sister in law and a few friends like
Speaker 2: from that time in my life, so we all stay
Speaker 2: very close, and it's really funny when we all explain
Speaker 2: how we know each other. I'm like, well, I used
Speaker 2: to be married to her son, no longer am, but
Speaker 2: she's still family. I'm just a big believer. And it
Speaker 2: was a little interesting for us because we didn't have kids,
Speaker 2: so it wasn't that, you know, we had this necessary
Speaker 2: thing keeping us together. But I wish him all the best.
Speaker 2: We ended on good terms, and what was the thing
Speaker 2: for me was that I had loved his family like
Speaker 2: my own, and they loved me, and that was a
Speaker 2: painful thing. I didn't want to have to lose that
Speaker 2: family and that love. So I believe in keeping the relation.
Speaker 2: If you can build bridges, don't burn them and take
Speaker 2: a girl's trip to see your former mother in law.
Speaker 1: I appreciated the fact that you said that from the
Speaker 1: get go in our relationship, you told me about these
Speaker 1: people in your life, quickly introduced me to them. I
Speaker 1: have since really fallen in love with them too, and
Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that they are value ads in your
Speaker 1: life and now mine, and so why would you cut
Speaker 1: somebody out who is just an ad and a total
Speaker 1: positive in your life? And I have We had the
Speaker 1: same thinking. I still keep in touch with sister in
Speaker 1: law and god kids that were on my ex wife's
Speaker 1: side of the family. I still love these people. They
Speaker 1: still meant a lot to me. It was twenty years
Speaker 1: of my life. Why would you just cut that out now?
Speaker 1: Sometimes things get toxic and you can't. Luckily we've been
Speaker 1: able to. And I appreciated that about you. But the
Speaker 1: main thing was bring them into my life, don't just
Speaker 1: keep them to yourself.
Speaker 2: Right And look, babe, again, this was a girl's trip.
Speaker 2: You would have been welcomed.
Speaker 1: If you need. I don't know if this is a
Speaker 1: job or how this is going to work, but this
Speaker 1: will be a new app if you need to hire
Speaker 1: me for girls weekends. I'm great at girls' weekends, driving, discussion,
Speaker 1: making drinks. I love to cook, I love to clean.
Speaker 1: I'm just a good soldier to have around.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, why aren't we doing this? Baby? You
Speaker 2: do cameo. You do videos on cameo for people. You'll
Speaker 2: say hi and happy birthday and happy anniversary and help
Speaker 2: with proposals. We should add a little thing on your
Speaker 2: cameo available for girls.
Speaker 1: I could do bachelorette parties. I mean, I could just
Speaker 1: see myself holding someone's hair at three in the morning
Speaker 1: while she's puking. It's okay, honey, you're so pretty.
Speaker 2: Then your dad's skills would kick in. So that's great.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, yeah, you know what, and let's do
Speaker 2: this as a moneymaker to get some money for the wedding.
Speaker 2: If we're still getting married, are we? Is it gonna
Speaker 2: be a question after today's podcast episode.
Speaker 1: Right now, it's a go. So let's see if we
Speaker 1: circle back to this in about twenty or thirty minutes
Speaker 1: and we still say it's a go.
Speaker 2: Okay, So if I have this right what we wanted
Speaker 2: to get into today, and I get it. There's been
Speaker 2: so many celebrity divorces in the news lately, just kind
Speaker 2: of feels like a rush of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some people kind of rehashing their divorces, like
Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson was talking about her kids and Brad Pitt
Speaker 1: and Angelina I'm still fighting, still fighting it out now
Speaker 1: drama new drama on them. So there's some new breakups,
Speaker 1: but then there's some old ones that are just won't
Speaker 1: go away, and so it just seemed like we were
Speaker 1: inundated with this and instead of just talking about bad news,
Speaker 1: I kind of looked at these and thought, Okay, what
Speaker 1: can we take from these? What what can we relate to?
Speaker 1: What can everybody relate to in all of these?
Speaker 2: Yes? And how can you make it positive? Yeah? So
Speaker 2: what do you want to start with?
Speaker 1: Well, I think because Kelly Clarkson obviously has been divorced
Speaker 1: for a while, a couple of years now. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: from from Brandon, her husband, and so she has two
Speaker 1: kids seven and nine years old, Remy and River, and
Speaker 1: she said it has made her kids question love and
Speaker 1: it's something she's had to deal with with. And I
Speaker 1: felt so relatable to this because my kids were about
Speaker 1: the same age as her kids when we got divorced,
Speaker 1: and that was a.
Speaker 2: Really different young like seven nine.
Speaker 1: I think my kids were a couple of years older,
Speaker 1: like nine and eleven maybe, but still that innocence of
Speaker 1: believing in Santa Claus and believing in mom and dad
Speaker 1: and everything's just going to be okay, And now you
Speaker 1: are telling them and it's hard to explain that to
Speaker 1: a seven and nine year old or eleven year old,
Speaker 1: Mommy and daddy are getting divorced. We still love each other,
Speaker 1: we respect each other, we just don't want and so
Speaker 1: it's really impossible for a young kid to really comprehend
Speaker 1: and make sense of all that. I know it happened
Speaker 1: for my kids. It was a very difficult conversation.
Speaker 2: You've told that story that when you first said it
Speaker 2: to them, basically you said the word got you two
Speaker 2: said the word divorce, and they instantly started.
Speaker 1: Well, Joshua, my son, understood it. He as well as
Speaker 1: he could. He was a little bit older, two years
Speaker 1: older than his sister. Taylor did not understand. And so
Speaker 1: when Joshua got upset, she just saw her brother and
Speaker 1: realized this is I don't know what this means. This
Speaker 1: is bad news, and she started crying. And that is
Speaker 1: a low point as a human being. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think as a dad, as a parent, as a person,
Speaker 1: it's the only thing your conditioned to do in this
Speaker 1: life is not hurt your kids, to protect them and
Speaker 1: help them. In that moment, you are blowing up their life,
Speaker 1: whether it's for the better or not, and you realize
Speaker 1: it is later. It's just a tough moment, you've got
Speaker 1: to suck it up and do it.
Speaker 2: How did you make sure maybe what Kelly's dealing with now,
Speaker 2: because the kids have relationships and I think you know
Speaker 2: they it's not like they certainly believe in a lot
Speaker 2: of Taylor and Josh do. How did you get them
Speaker 2: to a healthy place with relationships and thinking that a
Speaker 2: good relationship was possible?
Speaker 1: It is time, you know, you know how they say time,
Speaker 1: he'll all wounds. The same goes here. Look that moment
Speaker 1: and that speech to them, whatever age they're going to
Speaker 1: be at the time, it's not good and it's going
Speaker 1: to be bad news for them because as kids, especially
Speaker 1: Kelly's kids seven and nine years old, here's what they're thinking.
Speaker 1: I'm losing a mommy, I'm losing a daddy, I'm losing
Speaker 1: my home, I'm losing my friends. Like their mind just.
Speaker 2: Starts racing yas their stability all are.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean this in a bad way. Children
Speaker 1: are selfish. The world revolves around them. That's the way
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be, and that's okay. That is a child.
Speaker 1: When you are childlike, you're concerned with your own world,
Speaker 1: and so their concern is oh my gosh, Christmas is gone.
Speaker 1: Everything's gone, and so you quickly need to just show them, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Mom and Dad are still in your life. Mom and
Speaker 1: Dad still love you. You. Actually, instead of one home, have two,
Speaker 1: and instead of one Christmas, you have too. However, it
Speaker 1: gets to them you start showing them that your world
Speaker 1: that you thought was blown up is no.
Speaker 2: But even though you're just saying I mean, you said time,
Speaker 2: but I think you're selling yourself and you know, and
Speaker 2: their mom may be a little short here, I want
Speaker 2: you to get into it more because I know other
Speaker 2: people who have had divorced parents and they are not
Speaker 2: as healthy about relationships as Josh and Taylor are. I
Speaker 2: know people whose parents got divorced and they're in their
Speaker 2: thirties and they still quote don't believe in marriage. And
Speaker 2: then when I hear Josh and Taylor talk, they talk
Speaker 2: about getting married one day. So how did you get
Speaker 2: them to that place?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm thankful, and I have to give some credit
Speaker 1: to my ex who we had the discussion that no
Speaker 1: matter what we are going through, they didn't sign up
Speaker 1: for this. The kids had nothing to do with this.
Speaker 1: They didn't sign up for this crap, it's on us.
Speaker 1: Let's deal with everything ourselves. Do not use the kids,
Speaker 1: do not bring the kids into it. And for the
Speaker 1: most part, we were able to do that. And that
Speaker 1: is a godsend because when kids get involved, you're using
Speaker 1: them as ponds, whether it's for money or for whatever.
Speaker 1: Power that that's when things get bad and your kids know,
Speaker 1: they know.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's helped. I mean, she's remarried, we're engaged.
Speaker 2: Do you think it helped? Because I think a lot
Speaker 2: of divorce parents are afraid to date again and what
Speaker 2: it will show their kids. But like, if you stay alone,
Speaker 2: then in the long run, I would think that certainly
Speaker 2: reinforces love isn't possible. So do you think it helped
Speaker 2: that you guys dated again and are with other people?
Speaker 1: For sure? And I think they hear everything you say,
Speaker 1: it's here everything, and they watch you. So if you
Speaker 1: are in a bad situation. I find that many divorce parents,
Speaker 1: it's not one way or the other. Moms and dads
Speaker 1: they start talking to their kids like their friends, like
Speaker 1: they're a confidant. And these kids who you're opening up
Speaker 1: to have their own world and their own feelings going on.
Speaker 1: And so when you start treating your daughter or your
Speaker 1: son like your best friend, and you start talking about
Speaker 1: daddy or mommy, or you start talking about love or
Speaker 1: trying to date and how you love sucks and your
Speaker 1: heart broken. Yeah, that's going to affect them. So don't
Speaker 1: treat your kids like your friend immediately after a divorce.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard because adults, these parents are going
Speaker 2: through so much. They're getting divorced, they're going through loss,
Speaker 2: they're trying to raise kids, and it's a hard, heavy time.
Speaker 2: But that separation is so important.
Speaker 1: You start needing stuff back from your kids, which is
Speaker 1: not the way it goes. You give everything to your kids,
Speaker 1: you don't get back, and I think people start to
Speaker 1: try to get something back from them, like hey, I
Speaker 1: need you as a sounding board, I need you to
Speaker 1: show me how I'm not crazy. Or you know, your
Speaker 1: dad is the bad guy or your mom's the bad woman.
Speaker 1: So that is a toxic, terrible thing to do to
Speaker 1: your kids, and that inevitably will lead them down the
Speaker 1: road to have their own relationship problems. I think it
Speaker 1: was very important that we quickly said we believe in
Speaker 1: love and we still love each other. There's love in
Speaker 1: our hearts. We are still family, et cetera, exact.
Speaker 2: What you just said. And maybe because it's been a
Speaker 2: year since you had this conversation, but I do remember
Speaker 2: you telling me that you said right away, we still
Speaker 2: love each other, and that love changes, but we still
Speaker 2: love each other. It's still there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mommy and Daddy aren't going to live together because again,
Speaker 1: they're you can't get too much in the weeds on this.
Speaker 1: They are, you know Kelly Clarkson's we're seven and nine.
Speaker 1: Mine were probably nine and eleven somewhere around there. How
Speaker 1: deep in the weeds can you get into it with
Speaker 1: an eleven year old? They don't have the comprehension of
Speaker 1: love and commitment.
Speaker 2: And so I don't know if you remember, but as
Speaker 2: the kids got older, maybe they're teenagers, they're starting to date.
Speaker 2: Did they ever ask you do you plan to get
Speaker 2: married again? Dad? Do you think you'd get married again?
Speaker 2: And if they did, what was your answer to them?
Speaker 2: Or what do you imagine it would have been?
Speaker 1: I ended up broaching the subject eventually. It was after
Speaker 1: I went on a blind date. I went on a
Speaker 1: date one night and we were talking about we knew
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to work between us, but we had
Speaker 1: a great conversation and I said, you know, when do
Speaker 1: you introduce people to your kids? And I had never
Speaker 1: introduced anybody to my kids. She said, you know what,
Speaker 1: ask them have that conversation. At this point, they were
Speaker 1: a few years older, and I approached the subject to say, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: you know mommy and daddy. You know we've been divorced
Speaker 1: for a while, and mommy's dating. You know you've met him,
Speaker 1: and what do you think of me dating? And they said, great,
Speaker 1: we don't want to meet everybody. The kids still saw
Speaker 1: that I believed in love and I wanted that in
Speaker 1: my life and I still hold that deer and important,
Speaker 1: and I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I
Speaker 1: think you can get a divorce and you can believe
Speaker 1: in love. That's what I wanted the kids to know
Speaker 1: that I can do something that I think is best
Speaker 1: for me and for your mom. But I also want
Speaker 1: this in my life. I still believe in it. I
Speaker 1: did the first time. I do now I really do.
Speaker 1: Now done dun dun so. Speaking of doing things the
Speaker 1: right way, another divorce that well, actually, sorry, it's not
Speaker 1: going to be a divorce. That's kind of the beauty
Speaker 1: of this. The former mayor of New York, build A
Speaker 1: Blasio and his wife. They are separating. They are not
Speaker 1: going to get divorced. They have announced that they are
Speaker 1: going to live separately. They're going to go their separate ways.
Speaker 1: They're going to share their real estate that they love,
Speaker 1: and share their houses and all that good stuff. But
Speaker 1: they're not going to be together. They're going to date
Speaker 1: other people.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here's what I was trying to figure out though.
Speaker 2: Are they still living together?
Speaker 1: Well, no, they are separating. They are not planning divorce.
Speaker 1: They said they will date other people. There're going to
Speaker 1: continue to share the park How I took that as
Speaker 1: share it as in they probably have other residences.
Speaker 2: I took they will continue to share the park Slope
Speaker 2: townhouse where they raise their two children, now in their twenties,
Speaker 2: that they might both still live there.
Speaker 1: That I don't know. So I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: do like the fact that I understand this is getting
Speaker 1: more and more common of people separating but not getting divorced.
Speaker 1: I was just in Scottsdale playing golf and this guy
Speaker 1: I was playing golf with. I said, you know you married.
Speaker 1: He says yeah, But I said but he's like, but
Speaker 1: I have a girlfriend. I said, wow. Explain He says, well,
Speaker 1: my wife and I don't want to get divorced. It's
Speaker 1: just too big of a deal. There's too much to separate.
Speaker 1: If this is economically doesn't make sense. It makes much
Speaker 1: more sense for us just to stay married. We both understand.
Speaker 1: We live separately. We got her a house, I have
Speaker 1: a house. We date. We're very open with the people
Speaker 1: were dating. My concern and my thought was if I
Speaker 1: had done this and I came to you and we
Speaker 1: fell in love like we did at some point, don't
Speaker 1: you want me to be more serious about getting out
Speaker 1: of that last relationship and committing to you. I would
Speaker 1: want that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that it's well, first of all,
Speaker 2: I think it's maybe an age thing and a life
Speaker 2: place thing, like I remember meeting. I think it was
Speaker 2: that's an aesthetian I met one time and she was
Speaker 2: just telling me about her life, and she said, I
Speaker 2: think it was a massage therapist. And she said her
Speaker 2: and her ex were split up but not divorced, and
Speaker 2: they still live together. And she said they had a
Speaker 2: nine year old son, so it was to kind of
Speaker 2: keep things stable for their son, and it was an
Speaker 2: economics thing, like she's like, we can't really afford to
Speaker 2: have two households, and I think that's a very growing
Speaker 2: problem for people now. So I understand that, and it's
Speaker 2: great for their kid. But she also said, well, the
Speaker 2: only problem is it's been a couple years of this.
Speaker 2: It's been okay. But she said, now I do want
Speaker 2: to date again, and I do think that's going to
Speaker 2: be an issue. I think for Mayor Deblasio and his wife,
Speaker 2: maybe they've just been married so long and kind of
Speaker 2: have slowly grown apart for so older. The kids are
Speaker 2: in their twenties, I think they can handle dating other
Speaker 2: people and be a bit more at peace with that.
Speaker 2: But I think if the relationships a newer breakup and
Speaker 2: you're younger and your kids are younger, it might not
Speaker 2: be so easy. I definitely huh.
Speaker 1: I found it healthy, but I found it problematic just
Speaker 1: in my own again, relating it to my own life
Speaker 1: and dating and maybe if you're in your upper sixties seventies,
Speaker 1: you just know you're not going to get married again,
Speaker 1: but you can't rule that out. You can't rule out
Speaker 1: falling in love, finding that special someone, and look, you
Speaker 1: can jump off that bridge when you get there and
Speaker 1: deal with it. But I could just imagine sitting down
Speaker 1: and you having that conversation with me of Okay, we're
Speaker 1: really serious about this. I've said I love you, and
Speaker 1: you're like, okay. So here's the thing. My husband and
Speaker 1: I aren't getting a divorce economically, so that becomes problematic.
Speaker 1: It puts a wall up at some point, we can
Speaker 1: only go so far. We have a glass ceiling in
Speaker 1: our relationship.
Speaker 2: Now I agree with you. I think there's you're going
Speaker 2: to reach a certain point where it's okay, well, like
Speaker 2: am I your emergency contact right? And you start to
Speaker 2: feel a little weird. It starts to feel a little painful.
Speaker 2: You don't want your new partner to feel hurt by it,
Speaker 2: And I do think it would get to that point.
Speaker 2: I mean, actually now I'm remembering, and I kind of forgot.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I wasn't when I was getting a divorce.
Speaker 2: We just like weren't too stressed about the paperwork. So
Speaker 2: there were a couple months there, I mean several months
Speaker 2: we were completely fully separated, but we just hadn't like
Speaker 2: signed the documents. Yeah, And it was nothing other than
Speaker 2: just we were totally peacefully separated and broken up. But
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a document. That is what's a
Speaker 2: little silly about marriage. At the end of the day.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the vows matter to me, the commitment matters to me,
Speaker 2: But then there's that piece of paper where it's like
Speaker 2: which is the same as you know, you probably sign
Speaker 2: more to buy a house than you do to get married.
Speaker 2: It's way more.
Speaker 1: But when you get unmarried divorced, that's when you got
Speaker 1: to then go back and try and unwint everything. You
Speaker 1: brought up something interesting with the Deblasia thing about sharing
Speaker 1: a house, and this is something I found when.
Speaker 2: This was interesting to me. If they're living together still
Speaker 2: in data, that's it.
Speaker 1: When I was going through my divorce figuring out what
Speaker 1: I was going to do with the kids, it was
Speaker 1: brought up to me by I think a therapist had mentioned, well,
Speaker 1: are you going to have the kids go back and forth?
Speaker 1: Or are you guys going back and forth? I said,
Speaker 1: I don't understand. She said, well, what a lot of
Speaker 1: parents are doing is the mom and the dad will
Speaker 1: have another place to live, but they the kids will
Speaker 1: stay at the central home, the home that you've had
Speaker 1: the parents come in and out.
Speaker 2: So you got to have three places of residence amongst
Speaker 2: the two or three, you had to have three in
Speaker 2: that case, or the mom and dad switch places and
Speaker 2: they go to their other apartment or house or wait
Speaker 2: and they alternate sharing the same house. So you would
Speaker 2: go back seat of two houses, one where the kids
Speaker 2: there or three, yes, and then mom and dad would
Speaker 2: take turns being in the second house if they're only there,
Speaker 2: so the.
Speaker 1: Kids keep their bedroom, they stay. Everything's normal. I think
Speaker 1: that is. And look if it's working for you, and
Speaker 1: I know there's people doing that, and maybe look reach
Speaker 1: out to us and our messages and comments below. If
Speaker 1: you are doing this, I would find it fascinating to
Speaker 1: talk to somebody of how this works.
Speaker 2: If you have an money to do three residents is
Speaker 2: I think that sounds great. The kids can stay stable,
Speaker 2: they don't have to pack their bags every week. But
Speaker 2: if you only have the money to have too, let's
Speaker 2: think about this. The kids are at one house and
Speaker 2: then mom and dad take turns in the other house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're going because you really are taking turns
Speaker 1: back and you're like, do they wash the sheet? Different bedrooms?
Speaker 1: We need at least a two bedroom in the other.
Speaker 2: House help in the drawer. There their toothpaste. That's a
Speaker 2: little dark.
Speaker 1: It would be dark, but it happens. And it was
Speaker 1: something that was brought up to me, and we didn't
Speaker 1: do that. We did the shared fifty to fifty. But
Speaker 1: I just found it how healthy you need that relationship
Speaker 1: to be to pull that off, and so to blase
Speaker 1: you at the end of the day was an example
Speaker 1: of how divorce is being done right.
Speaker 2: And I love that it's evolving. I do think we
Speaker 2: as a society are evolving more and judging less and
Speaker 2: being more open to Like, to me, the health of
Speaker 2: the family and everybody being in a happy place is
Speaker 2: what's most important, right, So how do you get there?
Speaker 2: And again, build bridges, don't burn them. It doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be a messy split. I do think the dating
Speaker 2: if you were still living with your ex would be hard,
Speaker 2: And as I sit here thinking about it now, I'm
Speaker 2: really thinking, like, say, when you and I had started dating,
Speaker 2: you were still married, I think that would have actually,
Speaker 2: as progressive as I'm trying to sound, I think it
Speaker 2: would have been like a little bit of a red
Speaker 2: flag to me in the beginning, actually, because you'd been
Speaker 2: married so long, like, maybe tell me if I'm Wrongry.
Speaker 1: Are you that line? Are you still? Who is really over?
Speaker 2: That's what I would have to wonder, because I think
Speaker 2: if someone had only been married a couple of years
Speaker 2: and they were like, we split up, it didn't work out.
Speaker 2: But if it was this long marriage and there were
Speaker 2: still kids involved, I would wonder, Okay, but but why
Speaker 2: haven't you got divorced? Are there still feelings there? And
Speaker 2: that would scare me.
Speaker 1: Divorces are evolving, some are dissolving, some just will not
Speaker 1: move forward. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, they have been
Speaker 1: getting divorced for over seven years now.
Speaker 2: I got to tell you I'm judging them at this
Speaker 2: point because the latest is a filing that's come to light.
Speaker 2: Where was it? Her side called him a petulant child.
Speaker 1: It's about Chateau Mervol the vas by the way, and
Speaker 1: so they bought this together in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: and her people are saying that he has been engaged
Speaker 1: in a vindictive campaign to dominate and loot the wine
Speaker 1: business that the couple had built and owned together. And
Speaker 1: as Lauren just said, Pitt, this is her side speaking.
Speaker 1: Pitt has acted like a petulant child, refusing to treat Nouvelle,
Speaker 1: which is Jolie's camp, as an equal partner in the business.
Speaker 1: So this is just a you know what, measuring contest
Speaker 1: between the two of them.
Speaker 2: This is a he said, She said, mud slinging. I
Speaker 2: don't even as someone who you know. And it's hard
Speaker 2: for celebrities because we're hearing about all this news in
Speaker 2: the public and then you know, people will say, are
Speaker 2: you team Brad or team Angelina? And eventually you become
Speaker 2: team No. One because so much he said, she said,
Speaker 2: and I don't know what the truth is.
Speaker 1: I get it over over for you.
Speaker 2: Imagine the millions.
Speaker 1: I said the same thing. I was thinking the same
Speaker 1: thing on lawyers. I wrote down here legal fees. What
Speaker 1: are the legal fees? And how I wonder how in
Speaker 1: touch Angelina and Brad are. I know they have so
Speaker 1: many people in their camp, if they have any idea
Speaker 1: how much they've spent or at this point are they
Speaker 1: so bitter? Which is so funny because it's so anti
Speaker 1: mister and missus Smith. When they hooked up in the
Speaker 1: first place, which was just this raw.
Speaker 2: Chemistry. Watch that man, which by the way, I remember
Speaker 2: he was with Jennit No if if.
Speaker 1: You're Jennifer Aniston, I still can't watch that film because
Speaker 1: you just I mean it is.
Speaker 2: And I still feel bad for her because her life
Speaker 2: since they split has been like very much defined through
Speaker 2: no choice of her by this split. But regardless, we
Speaker 2: can't get into all this but.
Speaker 1: The legal fees, and I just how toxic this has
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Knowing some of the look in Hollywood. It's a very
Speaker 2: small group of attorneys who do major divorces, Like you
Speaker 2: know the names that are thrown around. Laura Wasser's a
Speaker 2: big one. They represent you know the Kardashians or Jennifer Garner,
Speaker 2: you know Angelina Juliet's. There's just a few attorneys. I
Speaker 2: know how much those attorneys cost. You do too, Yeah, Yes,
Speaker 2: I knew someone who went through a divorce, a split
Speaker 2: situation that was only like two years, and I think
Speaker 2: something like five million dollars or more in legal fees
Speaker 2: were spent. There is so much money and one piece
Speaker 2: of advice I think you and I both give to
Speaker 2: anybody who's getting divorced, whether their kids are involved or not.
Speaker 2: But I was just telling this to a friend of
Speaker 2: mine the other day who's getting divorced. If you can
Speaker 2: avoid using attorneys, avoid it because all you are doing
Speaker 2: is spending money that could be going to your life
Speaker 2: or more importantly to your kids one day.
Speaker 1: Try and do it yourself if you can, before you
Speaker 1: go into mediation. Go to mediation to legally. You can
Speaker 1: do that without lawyers. You could each have a lawyer
Speaker 1: on the side, but if you can do it without,
Speaker 1: it is a very inexpensive way. And the thing is
Speaker 1: how many people know the economics in their house and
Speaker 1: know the accounting of what's actually there. That's where it
Speaker 1: gets sticky. But this Brad and Angelina thing, please please
Speaker 1: let it go. Another divorce. That's actually it's very peaceful,
Speaker 1: very amicable, but it brought something else. And look, we
Speaker 1: believe in marriage for all. Here at the most dramatic
Speaker 1: podcast ever, Billy Porter and Adam Smith divorces for everybody
Speaker 1: as well. After six years they have gotten a divorce.
Speaker 2: Well, I think what you liked about the headline was
Speaker 2: the spin which the headline was after more than half
Speaker 2: a decade together, so we were like six years six years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they really made it seem like they've been together
Speaker 1: for quite some time. But I don't know Billy Porter.
Speaker 1: I don't know Adam Smith, but what I took from
Speaker 1: it was this, And when I was reading about them,
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about their relationship. They met No. Nine,
Speaker 1: they dated for a year, they broke up. Five years
Speaker 1: later they ran it back again. Oh interesting, Then they
Speaker 1: got married, like six months later, they got engaged and
Speaker 1: then got married. So what struck me in this whole
Speaker 1: thing was running it back.
Speaker 2: There, the unicorn relationship that you always say is almost
Speaker 2: impossible to find that they got back together and it worked.
Speaker 1: Did it?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that's that's that was my point of Look,
Speaker 1: six years is a very successful run, I guess, and
Speaker 1: this has been very very clean in the press and
Speaker 1: amicable and all that stuff. I just took it as
Speaker 1: very interesting of does it ever work when you go
Speaker 1: back and you know they met, they obviously had some chemistry,
Speaker 1: but then they parted ways for a reason.
Speaker 2: Oh so you're really you're actually proving your point.
Speaker 1: They parted ways for a reason, then they got back together.
Speaker 1: Was that because it was comfortable, It's something they knew.
Speaker 1: And then they got married, and then you realize there
Speaker 1: was a reason we weren't together in the first world.
Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, you've proven it yourself right again. I can't
Speaker 2: argue with that.
Speaker 1: Billy Porter proved it for us.
Speaker 2: I have interviewed him on carpets many times, and he
Speaker 2: has always got that one of the most charismatic theatrical
Speaker 2: interviews I've ever done. Like he delivers in an interview,
Speaker 2: he is interesting things to say. He makes it fun.
Speaker 2: I just always looked forward to interviewing him so much
Speaker 2: interesting we now that I think about it, I don't
Speaker 2: think I ever interviewed him with his husband. He was
Speaker 2: usually solo on carpet.
Speaker 1: They did appear, you know, they appeared on several carpets
Speaker 1: together and did some appearances. They weren't crazy out in
Speaker 1: the public eye, but they were from time to time.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, now that we've brought up some headlines
Speaker 2: and almost given different examples for our hypotheses here in
Speaker 2: this research paper of a podcast on whether we will
Speaker 2: still be getting married, I want to go to a
Speaker 2: couple of the questions that our wonderful producer Kendall posed
Speaker 2: for us. She sent us a down of the headlines
Speaker 2: to go over, and at the top she kind of
Speaker 2: posed some questions, Kendall, I think you might be playing
Speaker 2: therapist here. One of them that she gave us was, well,
Speaker 2: c H and LZ, you have both gone through a divorce.
Speaker 2: Why is it important to the two of you to
Speaker 2: get married again? Okay, I'll tell I'll go first, because actually,
Speaker 2: something you said on the podcast, on another podcast episode
Speaker 2: very much affected me and really made me think about it. Well,
Speaker 2: I think I I just felt like it was so
Speaker 2: natural for us like to get married. It really wasn't
Speaker 2: a question. I think we both knew for a couple
Speaker 2: of years this is the person and that was great.
Speaker 2: But that being said, what's the difference between just naturally
Speaker 2: progressing versus really finding marriage meaningful? And actually, it was
Speaker 2: an episode of the podcast where you said, well, I
Speaker 2: wanted to make those vows to you and it is
Speaker 2: religious to me on some level. That totally stuck with
Speaker 2: me and changed my mind and I realized, oh, kind
Speaker 2: of for the first time, I really want to I
Speaker 2: don't care where we get married, when, how whatever, but
Speaker 2: the most important thing, and it's part of me maturing
Speaker 2: is making those vows. And it really hit me. So
Speaker 2: you made that difference for me.
Speaker 1: I love to kind of add on and piggyback on
Speaker 1: what you're saying. What I loved about our relationship is
Speaker 1: that it was completely organic and it did just grow
Speaker 1: on its own, and it got to places where we
Speaker 1: met at the same time with the same thought of
Speaker 1: let's be public about our relationship, let's tell everybody we're dating,
Speaker 1: and then we kind of got to this point in
Speaker 1: our relationship, at least I did, where I don't want
Speaker 1: to just call her my girlfriend or my partner. I'm
Speaker 1: not cool enough for life partner, so it just felt
Speaker 1: like I wanted to take that next step. So what
Speaker 1: I loved is that I felt like our love grew
Speaker 1: not out of necessity, because it wasn't about having kids,
Speaker 1: it wasn't about anything financial. It was just love and
Speaker 1: it was just this amazing friendship and this love affair
Speaker 1: that grew. And that's what I've enjoyed the most is
Speaker 1: that you kind of no strings attached. I guess, for
Speaker 1: lack of a more romantic term of we only do things.
Speaker 1: I have only done things because I want to.
Speaker 2: Like, it didn't feel like, oh, I should be getting
Speaker 2: married now because I'm in a page, or oh it's
Speaker 2: time to have kids.
Speaker 1: I'm fifty one, now I should get married, you know,
Speaker 1: I did that, and I had had children, and you
Speaker 1: know we both have been down that aisle before, so
Speaker 1: it just it allowed us to breathe and allowed our
Speaker 1: relationship to just find its way. And then yeah, when
Speaker 1: it becomes important to me to take that step, and
Speaker 1: you mentioned all the way back to the kids of
Speaker 1: I want them to see. I want our love to
Speaker 1: be a shining example. It doesn't mean it's perfect, it
Speaker 1: doesn't even guarantee that it works, but it means that
Speaker 1: much to us now.
Speaker 2: Kendall also asked, well, do you think a marriage can last?
Speaker 2: Can it last thirty or more years?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, no, I think of course. And that
Speaker 2: is an important positive thing to note here. As much
Speaker 2: as celebrity breakups make headlines because people love drama, we
Speaker 2: all do, but I look at the people in our life,
Speaker 2: our friends, for example. We know so many couples who've
Speaker 2: been together for decades, and one of my favorite things
Speaker 2: to see with our friends is that there's still affection there.
Speaker 2: We know couples who've been together so long and they
Speaker 2: still hold hands, or we see them kiss each other
Speaker 2: and do sweet things for each other and still are
Speaker 2: dating and still are affectionate and obsessed with each other
Speaker 2: in that way, and I think it's important for your
Speaker 2: relationship to surround yourself with couples who set that example to.
Speaker 1: You were the same the people around you. I totally
Speaker 1: believe in that.
Speaker 2: And they're celebrity couples. We still believe in. Tom Hanks
Speaker 2: and Rita Wilson, still going strong, still speaking highly of
Speaker 2: each other, Oprah and Stedman, Nicole and Nicole and keithy Oh,
Speaker 2: they're so cute together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are on a red carpet. They are. They
Speaker 1: have that chemistry in that matter.
Speaker 2: By the way, you know, there have been some Bachelor
Speaker 2: couple divorces, but like gosh, Sean and Catherine, I mean,
Speaker 2: still the gold standard out there, Adam.
Speaker 1: And Raven and Tristan Ryan, and there are many many
Speaker 1: Bachelor what Ari and Lauren, Ashley and Jared. Yeah, Ashley,
Speaker 1: I mean talk about the great comeback story of all time,
Speaker 1: someone who manifested love.
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, did they run it back? No, they just
Speaker 2: took forever to find it and.
Speaker 1: She was running the whole time. It just she was
Speaker 1: running it down. I think. By the way, I still
Speaker 1: I have not booked this yet, but Ashley and Jared
Speaker 1: are going to be on the show soon, if not
Speaker 1: at least Ashley, I really want to sit down and
Speaker 1: talk to her. I adore her, having spent just much
Speaker 1: more time with her lately. But yes, I'm still ninety
Speaker 1: nine point nine percent sure we're getting married.
Speaker 2: Oh good, Yeah, I'm like ninety nine point one.
Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll take it. That's good enough. And look,
Speaker 1: the reason we wanted to do this was not a
Speaker 1: show about divorce. It's really a show about love. This
Speaker 1: show is always about love, and it's not It wasn't
Speaker 1: about trying to dig up some old, you know, tabloid stories.
Speaker 1: It was how can we gain some perspective and relate
Speaker 1: to all these because we all do you know these?
Speaker 1: It happened to me. You end up on a magazine
Speaker 1: with a rip down the page, you know, the proverbial
Speaker 1: rip between you and your partner. I say, you haven't
Speaker 1: lived in Hollywood until you have the breakup photo on
Speaker 1: one of the magazines. And that's what people know you for.
Speaker 1: It's what they see, and it's just these are real
Speaker 1: human beings going through real stuff, and it's Kelly Clarkson
Speaker 1: trying to make sure her kids still feel loved and
Speaker 1: learn about love and it's doing things the right way
Speaker 1: if you can. And so hopefully you've taken a little
Speaker 1: something away from today and I appreciate you being here.
Speaker 1: As always. All the love in the world to each
Speaker 1: and every one of you, especially my beautiful fiance Elzi,
Speaker 1: who I really want to marry more than ever. We'll
Speaker 1: talk to you next time.
Speaker 2: Don't make me cry, I'm emotional, I'm.
Speaker 1: Tired because we have a lot more to talk about.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.