WEBVTT - #598 Jason Flom with Ray Krone 0:00:02.540 --> 0:00:06.870 On December 29, 1991, the body of a 36-year-old bartender 0:00:06.910 --> 0:00:09.209 was found nude in the men's restroom of her bar 0:00:09.350 --> 0:00:13.170 in Phoenix, Arizona. She had been assaulted and fatally stabbed. 0:00:13.730 --> 0:00:16.849 No semen was found. However, what appeared to be bite 0:00:16.890 --> 0:00:19.989 marks were on her neck and breast, along with saliva. 0:00:20.670 --> 0:00:24.410 With DNA testing still in its infancy, serology tests could 0:00:24.610 --> 0:00:27.090 only show that both the blood and saliva at the 0:00:27.150 --> 0:00:30.990 scene matched the victim's blood type. One witness implied that 0:00:31.010 --> 0:00:34.110 the victim may have been dating a 34-year-old bar regular 0:00:34.150 --> 0:00:37.170 named Ray Crone, who the victim allegedly had mentioned was 0:00:37.210 --> 0:00:39.670 supposed to help her close up that night. But since 0:00:39.770 --> 0:00:41.570 Ray had been at home with his roommate at the 0:00:41.590 --> 0:00:44.250 time of the crime, he had nothing to hide, fully 0:00:44.270 --> 0:00:47.610 cooperating with investigators and eventually giving a blood sample and 0:00:47.630 --> 0:00:50.750 an impression of his teeth. With the limitations of the 0:00:50.810 --> 0:00:53.970 serology in this case, the notorious junk science of bite 0:00:54.010 --> 0:00:57.660 mark analysis became the sole evidence against Ray. The judge's 0:00:57.700 --> 0:01:00.370 denial of a continuance for the defense to prepare to 0:01:00.430 --> 0:01:02.990 refute this evidence made a path for a second trial, 0:01:03.290 --> 0:01:06.490 but not before Ray was convicted and sentenced to death. 0:01:07.490 --> 0:01:11.110 At the second trial, with the salivary DNA evidence excluding Ray, 0:01:11.170 --> 0:01:14.770 he was still reconvicted. But this time, the judge sentenced 0:01:14.850 --> 0:01:19.590 Ray to life while voicing his obvious doubts. In 2002, 0:01:19.590 --> 0:01:23.110 further DNA testing both excluded Ray as well as identified 0:01:23.150 --> 0:01:26.610 a convicted child molester named Kenneth Phillips as the actual killer. 0:01:27.110 --> 0:01:30.910 Within days, Ray Krohn became the 100th former death row 0:01:30.970 --> 0:01:35.050 inmate freed based on actual innocence since capital punishment was 0:01:35.130 --> 0:01:52.000 reinstated in 1976. This is Wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to 0:01:52.020 --> 0:01:56.940 Wrongful Conviction. Today's episode is... will rock your world. And 0:01:56.970 --> 0:01:59.100 I say that with such a high degree of confidence 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:03.080 because this story, this man, Ray Krohn, was the 100th 0:02:03.260 --> 0:02:06.460 exoneree from death row in the United States. And his 0:02:06.580 --> 0:02:11.340 case is so troubling because on top of all the 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.820 other terrible things, Ray's case relied solely on the junkiest 0:02:15.860 --> 0:02:18.560 of junk sciences, which is bite mark evidence. That was it. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:19.640 Nothing else. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.510 And furthermore, as happens every Too often in too many 0:02:24.530 --> 0:02:28.030 of the cases that we cover, the actual perpetrator went 0:02:28.150 --> 0:02:33.300 on to commit an unspeakable crime after Ray was targeted 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.500 for reasons that we'll get into later, which are inexplicable, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.520 but they're real. So without further ado, Ray Krohn, welcome 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:41.500 to Wrongful Conviction. 0:02:42.180 --> 0:02:43.500 Well, thank you. I'm glad to be here. 0:02:44.020 --> 0:02:47.579 And Ray, your case happened in Maricopa County, Arizona, which 0:02:47.620 --> 0:02:52.880 has a notorious past of prosecutorial misconduct. In fact, when 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.480 referring to some more recent instances, an ACLU article said, 0:02:56.500 --> 0:02:59.500 and this is a quote, it is indicative of a 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.140 decades-long culture of misconduct that flows from the top down, 0:03:03.740 --> 0:03:08.720 one that prioritizes winning convictions over pursuing fairness and executing justice, 0:03:09.300 --> 0:03:12.520 end quote. And to be fair to Maricopa, that quote 0:03:12.540 --> 0:03:16.980 could be applied to countless prosecutor's offices all over the country. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.700 But in your case, the prosecutor was Noel Levy. who 0:03:21.020 --> 0:03:23.690 sent at least two innocent people to death row that 0:03:23.730 --> 0:03:26.690 we know of, right? The first was Deborah Milkey back 0:03:26.730 --> 0:03:30.570 in 1990 when Levy hid the lead detective's long history 0:03:30.690 --> 0:03:34.390 of lying under oath. And that was exposed in 2015, 0:03:34.380 --> 0:03:37.420 which allowed Deborah Milkey to finally clear her name. And then, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.200 of course, you. But before all of this insanity, can 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.360 you take us back a bit? What was your life 0:03:43.460 --> 0:03:44.260 like growing up? 0:03:44.900 --> 0:03:46.780 Well, I was actually born and raised in a small 0:03:46.820 --> 0:03:50.410 agricultural town in southern Pennsylvania. I went to the same 0:03:50.470 --> 0:03:53.030 high school my grandparents went to, the same church my 0:03:53.090 --> 0:03:56.170 great-grandparents went to. I was involved in church. I was 0:03:56.250 --> 0:03:59.610 on the choir. I also played Little League baseball, peewee football. 0:03:59.630 --> 0:04:02.809 I was involved in sports. I grew up growing vegetables 0:04:02.830 --> 0:04:06.430 and hunting and fishing, the typical things that small-town country 0:04:06.490 --> 0:04:10.390 boys do. I graduated in 1974, and I entered the U.S. 0:04:10.470 --> 0:04:12.750 Air Force. I signed up for six years active duty, 0:04:12.790 --> 0:04:16.940 was stationed in places like Texas, Mississippi, then Georgia, Maine, 0:04:16.980 --> 0:04:19.890 and then the last was Phoenix, Arizona. My six years 0:04:19.930 --> 0:04:22.150 were up. I got out of there. A few years later, 0:04:22.170 --> 0:04:24.610 I got a job at the post office, and life 0:04:24.670 --> 0:04:26.950 was really pretty good. Again, I played a lot of sports, 0:04:27.029 --> 0:04:29.700 and that's really where my problem arose because of the 0:04:29.820 --> 0:04:31.880 one bar that I played volleyball for that I had 0:04:31.940 --> 0:04:34.320 shot darts at a few times became a scene of 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:34.700 a murder. 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.839 Right, and this particular crime occurred on December 29, 1991, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.570 where the body of a 36-year-old woman was found nude 0:04:43.710 --> 0:04:46.510 in the men's restroom of the CBS Lounge in Phoenix, Arizona. 0:04:46.790 --> 0:04:50.190 The bar owner had found the body of the previous 0:04:50.290 --> 0:04:54.850 night's bartender, and she had been brutally assaulted and stabbed 0:04:54.890 --> 0:04:58.190 to death. Now, remember, this was back in the early 90s, right? 0:04:58.230 --> 0:05:01.540 So DNA testing was still in its infancy, right? It 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.200 was a new thing. So they only had serology to 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.940 work with. And at the time, it seemed like there 0:05:08.980 --> 0:05:12.260 was very little physical evidence left behind. There was no semen, right? 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.180 And the blood and saliva at the scene all matched 0:05:15.220 --> 0:05:18.609 the victim's blood type. There were, though, what appeared to 0:05:18.650 --> 0:05:22.210 be human bite marks on the victim's neck and breast. So, 0:05:23.190 --> 0:05:26.120 which is, we've talked about that before, how notoriously unreliable 0:05:26.140 --> 0:05:28.740 that is. But so, Ray, from these facts, how did 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.099 they even come to suspect and ultimately target you? 0:05:32.740 --> 0:05:34.990 Yeah, she was found by the owner when he came 0:05:35.020 --> 0:05:37.109 in on that Sunday morning to open up his bar, 0:05:37.170 --> 0:05:39.590 found the front door unlocked, was concerned why his night 0:05:39.630 --> 0:05:42.230 manager hadn't taken care of security. He made his way 0:05:42.250 --> 0:05:44.670 to the cash register, to a safe. Both were on 0:05:45.210 --> 0:05:47.250 unsecured the money was still in there as he made 0:05:47.290 --> 0:05:49.030 his way around the bar he found her body in 0:05:49.050 --> 0:05:52.130 the men's bathroom and of course the police called in 0:05:52.150 --> 0:05:54.300 and they initiated an investigation on the assumption had to 0:05:54.330 --> 0:05:56.500 be somebody that knew her no evidence of break-in no 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.659 sign of a robbery they talked to some of the 0:05:58.700 --> 0:06:01.500 co-workers one of them mentioned my name as a potential 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.800 boyfriend i did not date her she was not my 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.250 girlfriend i knew her from the bar you treat bartenders 0:06:06.750 --> 0:06:09.330 then waitresses kindly in any profession if you're going to 0:06:09.370 --> 0:06:12.330 be attending that place of business and that's all it 0:06:12.370 --> 0:06:14.750 was but uh It was about one o'clock on that 0:06:14.830 --> 0:06:17.040 Sunday and I heard my dog was outside and he 0:06:17.060 --> 0:06:19.640 started barking. Two men in suits had pulled in front 0:06:19.660 --> 0:06:21.460 of my neighbor's house and were getting out of their car. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.460 And by the time I went outside to let my 0:06:23.500 --> 0:06:25.900 dog in, they were walking up my driveway. And I 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:27.850 stepped out and I said, excuse me, can I help you? 0:06:27.870 --> 0:06:30.510 And the one man said, are you Ray Crona? I said, well, yes, 0:06:30.550 --> 0:06:32.390 I am. What can I do for you? And he said, 0:06:32.410 --> 0:06:35.070 do you know? And I thought, I don't think I 0:06:35.089 --> 0:06:38.110 know anybody named. And he exchanged glances with the man 0:06:38.150 --> 0:06:40.130 next to him. He said, you don't know from the 0:06:40.180 --> 0:06:42.750 CBS lounge. I said, well, wait a minute. I, play 0:06:42.770 --> 0:06:44.950 volleyball there. I shoot darts there sometimes. There's a girl 0:06:45.010 --> 0:06:46.670 there named * * * *. I said, I don't 0:06:46.710 --> 0:06:48.630 know her last name. And he kind of looked at me. 0:06:48.670 --> 0:06:50.050 So he said, you don't know her last name. You're 0:06:50.070 --> 0:06:51.950 a boyfriend, aren't you? I kind of said, no, I'm 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.450 not her boyfriend. What's going on here? He said, well, 0:06:54.450 --> 0:06:56.180 you're dating her, aren't you? I said, no, I'm not 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.659 dating her. What is this about? And at that point, 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.919 he opened up his jacket, pulled out his badge, identified 0:07:00.940 --> 0:07:04.200 himself as a homicide detective and informed me of her death, 0:07:04.220 --> 0:07:05.779 said he was there to ask me a few questions. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.040 Now I'm stunned. I've been going to that bar about 0:07:08.100 --> 0:07:10.370 two months. Here's somebody I knew was a victim of a, 0:07:10.700 --> 0:07:12.640 homicide and the police are at my house to ask 0:07:12.700 --> 0:07:14.880 me questions. The first thing I said was, sure, come 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.190 on inside. And he said, no, we really need to 0:07:17.210 --> 0:07:19.730 do this downtown. And so I was interrogated for the 0:07:19.790 --> 0:07:21.890 next three hours about how long we've been dating, where 0:07:21.910 --> 0:07:23.590 do I take her on dates, how many times she's 0:07:23.610 --> 0:07:25.430 been to my house. All of them, I told her 0:07:25.450 --> 0:07:27.470 were negative. You know, she'd never been to my house. 0:07:27.550 --> 0:07:29.230 I didn't date her. I would see her at the bar. 0:07:29.250 --> 0:07:30.860 I was at a Christmas party with a number of 0:07:31.180 --> 0:07:33.800 people from the bar at one point with her. And 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.470 that was it. At one point, they took my sneakers out. 0:07:36.490 --> 0:07:38.310 At another point, they took mug shots. They had me 0:07:38.330 --> 0:07:40.660 take my shirt off, took pictures of my upper torso. 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.000 They took fingerprints. Another part, they had like a white 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.280 styrofoam cups. Had it tied two pieces together where I 0:07:47.340 --> 0:07:49.940 actually bit into that. And I cooperated. I didn't know 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.050 anything about her death. I didn't know her that well. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.810 I was at home that night. I have a roommate 0:07:53.830 --> 0:07:56.210 that knows I was home that night. And after about 0:07:56.250 --> 0:07:57.890 three hours, it was over. And I thought that was 0:07:57.910 --> 0:08:00.490 the end of it. But then the next day, which 0:08:00.530 --> 0:08:02.710 was a Monday, I went to the post office, delivered 0:08:02.730 --> 0:08:05.000 my mail, got home that day, and there he was waiting. 0:08:05.570 --> 0:08:08.220 Detective Gregory said, I need to eliminate you as a suspect. 0:08:08.260 --> 0:08:10.840 I don't think you've been completely truthful. You want to cooperate, 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.280 don't you, Mr. Crone? And I said, sure. What is 0:08:13.340 --> 0:08:14.740 it you need me to do? And he said, well, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.420 I need you to come downtown again. Again, I volunteered 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.640 to go downtown. This time when I got down there 0:08:19.660 --> 0:08:22.160 in the little interrogation room, right away he pulled out 0:08:22.180 --> 0:08:23.760 a piece of paper and said, oh, yeah, by the way, 0:08:23.780 --> 0:08:26.880 I have an affidavit here, a request for evidence here. 0:08:27.300 --> 0:08:28.980 and that it said that they were going to take 0:08:29.020 --> 0:08:30.820 a blood sample, a hair sample, and a cast of 0:08:30.860 --> 0:08:33.330 my teeth. Now I'm a little upset. Now I'm concerned. 0:08:33.350 --> 0:08:35.530 It's like, what's going on here? It was signed by 0:08:35.550 --> 0:08:37.709 a judge, said I was required to give these samples, 0:08:38.090 --> 0:08:39.600 and it said they had three hours to do it. 0:08:40.230 --> 0:08:42.390 So I cooperated when they took blood out of both arms. 0:08:42.429 --> 0:08:45.110 I'm not sure why that was necessary. I cooperated when 0:08:45.130 --> 0:08:47.170 they took hair samples, and then I was taken next 0:08:47.210 --> 0:08:48.890 door in a bigger room where there was a dentist 0:08:48.929 --> 0:08:51.530 and a dentist chair set up, at which point they 0:08:51.590 --> 0:08:53.729 sat me in a chair, put this goop, and he 0:08:53.750 --> 0:08:55.630 took two casts of my upper teeth, two casts of 0:08:55.650 --> 0:08:57.679 my lower teeth, And for about the next two and 0:08:57.700 --> 0:09:00.000 a half hours was nothing but taking pictures and questioning 0:09:00.020 --> 0:09:03.220 me about my dentition history. When I was 18 years old, 0:09:03.260 --> 0:09:05.090 I was a passenger in a head-on collision. I woke 0:09:05.150 --> 0:09:08.450 up with a broken jaw, mouth wearing shut. Six weeks 0:09:08.490 --> 0:09:10.790 went by. The bottom jaw didn't line up with the top. 0:09:10.830 --> 0:09:12.690 They had to re-break it, wear it shut again for 0:09:12.730 --> 0:09:15.829 another six weeks. I had some teeth that had eventually died. 0:09:15.850 --> 0:09:18.840 I had some teeth issues, root canals, some bridge work, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.000 some different things that went on with the front teeth 0:09:21.059 --> 0:09:23.020 in my mouth. And finally, when that was over, I 0:09:23.059 --> 0:09:25.240 went next door to that little interrogation room, at which 0:09:25.300 --> 0:09:28.069 point the detective banged his desk with his big old 0:09:28.220 --> 0:09:29.980 book and said, look, it's time to come clean. It's 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:31.699 time to tell the truth. I know you did it. 0:09:31.700 --> 0:09:34.260 Why don't you just confess so we can all go home? Well, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.280 by now, I was pretty angry. I was pretty upset 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.120 with what was going on, the way I was being treated. 0:09:38.620 --> 0:09:41.160 I was almost 35 years old. I'm not a little child. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:42.880 I spoke up to him. I told him what I 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.680 thought of him, what I thought of the investigation, the 0:09:44.700 --> 0:09:47.260 police department. Why are you wasting my time? Go find 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.439 the person that did this. And by the way, your 0:09:49.460 --> 0:09:51.330 three hours were up. I mean, I was hot. And 0:09:51.370 --> 0:09:52.830 he looked at me. He looked at his watch. He 0:09:52.850 --> 0:09:54.450 looked back up. He said, look, Mr. Crone, I'm not 0:09:54.470 --> 0:09:56.270 going to argue with you. There's other ways to handle this. 0:09:57.170 --> 0:09:59.110 He took me home, 15-minute ride, never said a word 0:09:59.150 --> 0:10:00.880 to me again. I thought that was the end of it. 0:10:01.460 --> 0:10:02.819 But I found out what he meant by other ways 0:10:02.860 --> 0:10:05.420 to handle this the next day, December 31st, 1991. It 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.059 was just about four o'clock. I pulled into my driveway, 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.140 just stepped out of my car, at which point all 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.370 of a sudden I heard a speaker go off, freeze, 0:10:13.410 --> 0:10:15.390 don't move, you're under arrest. A van load of police 0:10:15.470 --> 0:10:17.700 officers came pulling up. Black and whites came pulling up. 0:10:18.300 --> 0:10:20.700 The van doors opened up with armed officers in full 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.819 riot gear, threw me on the ground, arrested me for murder, kidnapping, 0:10:24.300 --> 0:10:26.620 and sexual assault. Jesus Christ. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.089 So there you are spending New Year's Eve in a 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:33.950 jail cell. And from what I understand, you stayed right 0:10:34.030 --> 0:10:37.569 there until trial. But you had your roommate, right, who 0:10:37.590 --> 0:10:40.949 had been home with you that night. So it sort 0:10:40.990 --> 0:10:43.530 of seemed like you could clear this up pretty easily. 0:10:43.850 --> 0:10:46.610 And from what I understand, you had a public defender there. 0:10:46.890 --> 0:10:48.609 Did they share the same optimism? 0:10:49.550 --> 0:10:51.230 One day I got called out to a legal visit. 0:10:51.410 --> 0:10:53.190 I'd probably been in there for a good month or two. 0:10:53.929 --> 0:10:55.489 And it's just like you see on TV with a 0:10:55.670 --> 0:10:57.830 separate area where one picks up the phone and you 0:10:57.870 --> 0:10:59.630 talk through clear glass. And I was in there and 0:10:59.650 --> 0:11:01.670 a lady came in, sat a briefcase down, picked up 0:11:01.710 --> 0:11:05.010 the phone, identified herself as representing the public defender's office. 0:11:05.590 --> 0:11:08.050 And she said, you've been charged with murder, kidnapping, and 0:11:08.090 --> 0:11:10.830 sexual assault. You can expect to be found guilty, but 0:11:10.850 --> 0:11:13.240 we'll fight it on appeal. And I went crazy. What 0:11:13.260 --> 0:11:14.800 do you mean? I'll be fine. I had nothing to 0:11:14.820 --> 0:11:17.179 do with it. I just started going off ranting and raving. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:18.959 And she got the phone held away from her ear, 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.370 waiting for me to calm down. And she got back 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.050 in that phone and she said, listen, Mr. Crone, let 0:11:23.070 --> 0:11:25.229 me tell you something. I don't take that tone of 0:11:25.270 --> 0:11:27.550 voice from the judge. I don't take it from the prosecutor. 0:11:27.790 --> 0:11:29.530 And I'm certainly not going to take it from you. 0:11:30.070 --> 0:11:32.329 Hung up the phone, picked up a briefcase and was going. 0:11:32.350 --> 0:11:35.720 And I thought, this is incredible. What is this system 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:37.959 I believe in? The country I believe in, the things 0:11:38.020 --> 0:11:41.290 I stood for and was taught and raised to believe. Anyway, 0:11:41.340 --> 0:11:43.080 I got a letter about a week or two later 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.380 from the public defender's office that stated that they were 0:11:45.420 --> 0:11:48.760 being removed from my case. They cited a conflict of interest, 0:11:48.860 --> 0:11:51.760 said the next most likely suspect was the victim's ex-husband. 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.360 They had a 15-year-old daughter together, and he did a 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.400 sleepover for her birthday and did something inappropriate with one 0:11:58.420 --> 0:12:01.860 of her little girlfriends and was arrested, rightfully so. And 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:03.760 they were representing him, and I was told that I 0:12:03.780 --> 0:12:06.500 would be getting a court-appointed attorney. I thought, oh, good, 0:12:06.540 --> 0:12:08.260 I'm going to get a private attorney now. Somebody's going 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.040 to be appointed. to represent me, somebody that'll do the job. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.500 But unfortunately, the day I went before the judge to 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.660 get a court-appointed attorney, it was a man that had 0:12:15.710 --> 0:12:18.089 never done a death penalty case. And at the point 0:12:18.110 --> 0:12:19.929 when the judge appointed him to me, he was granted 0:12:19.929 --> 0:12:23.290 $ 5, 000 to defend me, to represent me in a capital 0:12:23.309 --> 0:12:23.770 murder case. 0:12:24.410 --> 0:12:27.770 Yeah, and of course, the state has unlimited resources to 0:12:27.830 --> 0:12:29.590 do what they want to do. 0:12:30.030 --> 0:12:31.790 Heck, you can't even get a divorce for $ 5, 000. 0:12:31.510 --> 0:12:36.570 Yeah, don't I know it, believe me. And they're giving 0:12:36.970 --> 0:12:41.449 really just enough to create the impression that they're enabling 0:12:41.490 --> 0:12:45.680 you to mount some sort of a defense, but not enough, realistically, 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.920 for anybody to mount a real defense. So seven months 0:12:50.140 --> 0:12:51.620 after the murder, you're on trial. 0:12:51.900 --> 0:12:53.900 This was a three and a half day trial. The 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.880 prosecution was pretty much all three days. And that's why 0:12:56.900 --> 0:12:58.280 I found out why they had me bite into that 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.480 styrofoam that first day, why they took those casts of 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.500 my teeth the second day, because they had a bite 0:13:02.540 --> 0:13:07.090 mark expert testify, Ray Rosen out of Nevada. Very impressive, 0:13:07.110 --> 0:13:10.240 well-spoken man. He was a dean of the UNLV dental school. 0:13:10.300 --> 0:13:12.380 He was a state senator out of Las Vegas. He 0:13:12.420 --> 0:13:15.320 was the elder in the Mormon church. Very powerful speaker, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.559 very convincing. We later found out very well paid, over 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.690 $ 50, 000 by the Maricopa County DA's office for his testimony. 0:13:23.110 --> 0:13:25.530 But his testimony was that my teeth were unique as 0:13:25.550 --> 0:13:27.929 a result of the car accident I was in. My 0:13:27.970 --> 0:13:30.569 teeth matched the marks on the body, and that those 0:13:30.630 --> 0:13:32.550 marks on the body were made at the time of death, 0:13:32.670 --> 0:13:35.690 and that definitively made me Ray Crone the murderer. There 0:13:35.730 --> 0:13:37.939 really wasn't much other evidence, but I was called the 0:13:37.980 --> 0:13:39.280 snaggletooth killer in the papers. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:44.330 The snaggletooth killer. So for 10 times what you got 0:13:44.380 --> 0:13:47.890 for your whole defense, that 50 grand even came with 0:13:47.950 --> 0:13:51.490 a schoolyard bully nickname, right? And what they're really paying 0:13:51.570 --> 0:13:57.829 for with a forensic odontologist is their resume, pomp, and circumstance. 0:13:57.950 --> 0:14:01.550 Because if you were looking for substance and bite mark analysis, well, 0:14:01.830 --> 0:14:06.319 there just isn't any. There's not a shred. I can't even... 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.140 I can't even put it to words, the disdain I 0:14:09.179 --> 0:14:13.000 have for this particular junk science. I encourage everyone to 0:14:13.059 --> 0:14:16.360 listen to our series, Wrongful Conviction, Junk Science. The first 0:14:16.420 --> 0:14:19.880 episode exposes bite mark analysis for what it really is. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.000 And let's start out by saying that one of the 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:28.380 original purposes of forensic odontology is identifying human remains with 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.560 dental records. What I mean is, for instance, like a 0:14:31.590 --> 0:14:34.690 person was on a flight. right? And the flight crashed 0:14:34.730 --> 0:14:37.670 into a mountainside or whatever. It gets obliterated. But now 0:14:37.690 --> 0:14:40.310 you've got a situation where you're matching a limited and 0:14:40.430 --> 0:14:45.610 known set of bodies to corresponding dental impressions and dental histories. 0:14:45.950 --> 0:14:47.990 So you have a full set of teeth that you're 0:14:48.030 --> 0:14:51.739 comparing to a full set of x-rays from a dentist's office. 0:14:52.340 --> 0:14:57.880 But with bite mark analysis, the so-called expert pretends without 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.610 taking into account that the Many, many variables of the 0:15:01.650 --> 0:15:04.230 medium on which a bite was recorded, right? So what 0:15:04.250 --> 0:15:07.910 I mean is, in this particular case, human skin and tissue. 0:15:07.970 --> 0:15:12.240 So we're talking about elasticity, decomposition. I could go on. 0:15:12.270 --> 0:15:15.240 But from there, they act as if they're able to 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.300 match perfectly a dental mold from a suspect to marks 0:15:19.380 --> 0:15:23.060 made on a surface that's transitioning. And they claim to 0:15:23.100 --> 0:15:25.840 be able to do this to the exclusion of all 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.010 others on the planet. as Ray Rosen did in this case. 0:15:30.550 --> 0:15:35.390 So yeah, no. But as Ray mentioned, they impressed the 0:15:35.430 --> 0:15:39.530 hell out of the jury with their witnesses' purported credentials. 0:15:39.980 --> 0:15:44.360 And this time-tested method has tragically been very effective at 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.020 producing convictions, often with no other evidence of any kind. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.240 So that was the state's case. But what about your defense? 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:54.280 Now, the second half of the trial, which was the 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.540 defense's turn, which was like the last half a day, 0:15:57.050 --> 0:15:59.270 I actually took the stand. I raised my right hand. 0:15:59.310 --> 0:16:01.890 I went up there and answered my attorney's questions. And 0:16:01.910 --> 0:16:04.210 there came the prosecutor, Noel Levy, got up there right 0:16:04.230 --> 0:16:06.170 in front of me right away. So you deny killing 0:16:06.220 --> 0:16:08.140 the victim? I said, yes, I do. You deny being 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.220 to CBS now? I said, what night? He said, the 0:16:10.260 --> 0:16:11.740 night you killed her, of course, Mr. Crone. The night 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.020 you brutally took her life. It just started tearing into me. 0:16:14.180 --> 0:16:17.480 I mean, everything I said was twisted around. After two 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.750 or three hours of this cross-examination, I come down off 0:16:19.770 --> 0:16:22.270 that witness stand. I mean, so disordered and confused, I 0:16:22.270 --> 0:16:24.550 almost went over and sat down next to him. Next 0:16:24.590 --> 0:16:26.750 was my roommate. My roommate was going through a divorce. 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:28.890 He had two children. Most of his money was going 0:16:28.910 --> 0:16:31.680 to support those children. He was staying with me for 0:16:31.700 --> 0:16:33.940 a month or two. He'd been there already. He raised 0:16:33.980 --> 0:16:36.180 his right hand to testify to tell the truth there 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.720 in that court of law and sat down and answered 0:16:38.740 --> 0:16:41.320 my attorney's question. And then here come Noly, began to 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.739 cross-examine him. Stared there in front of him a minute 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.500 with his arms crossed, said, now you've known Ray Crowe 0:16:45.540 --> 0:16:48.180 a long time, haven't you? My friend Steve said, yes, 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:49.720 that's right. It's been 12 years since we were in 0:16:49.740 --> 0:16:52.290 the Air Force together. And then the prosecutor said, and 0:16:52.310 --> 0:16:54.190 Ray Crone's always been a good friend to you. I've 0:16:54.210 --> 0:16:56.350 been there at times of need, times of trouble, looked 0:16:56.450 --> 0:16:58.310 out for you, helped you out. In fact, he's even 0:16:58.350 --> 0:16:59.960 given you a place to live right now, isn't he? 0:17:00.470 --> 0:17:02.070 My friend Steve kind of straightened up and said, yes, 0:17:02.110 --> 0:17:03.950 that's right. That's the kind of guy Ray is. And 0:17:03.970 --> 0:17:05.869 then the prosecutor leaned right over to Space Point and 0:17:05.890 --> 0:17:08.090 figured out and said, and you'd lie for him, wouldn't you? 0:17:08.410 --> 0:17:10.470 And turned and walked away and sat down. Later on 0:17:10.530 --> 0:17:13.070 in closing arguments, he told the jury to disregard my friend, 0:17:13.530 --> 0:17:15.109 a man who raised his right hand to serve the 0:17:15.150 --> 0:17:17.209 United States Air Force, a man who raised his right 0:17:17.230 --> 0:17:18.730 hand to tell the truth in the court of law. 0:17:19.130 --> 0:17:21.660 He told that jury to disregard his testimony because he's 0:17:21.700 --> 0:17:24.780 just there to protect me and will say anything. And 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.340 it took the jury just three and a half hours 0:17:26.380 --> 0:17:28.640 to come back and find me guilty of murder and kidnapping. 0:17:29.540 --> 0:17:33.060 So now you go back for sentencing and you would 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.439 not have seemed to be a likely candidate to get 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.960 the death penalty, especially with your background. But in fact, 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:39.619 that's what happened. 0:17:40.740 --> 0:17:42.619 To sit there and going through a mini trial, what 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.530 they call an aggravating mitigating hearing, Again, this is their 0:17:45.550 --> 0:17:48.010 go-to big tough guy prosecutor. Before a judge, it was 0:17:48.070 --> 0:17:51.109 an ex-prosecutor. The response were half a dozen people in 0:17:51.150 --> 0:17:53.890 death row already. And to sit through this, the first part, 0:17:53.910 --> 0:17:56.060 the aggravating part by the prosecution where they have to 0:17:56.130 --> 0:17:58.020 argue why this is above and beyond the norm. For 0:17:58.060 --> 0:18:00.480 the worst of the worst, you have to have aggravating factors, 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.780 at least one, to get a death sentence. They used 0:18:02.820 --> 0:18:05.420 the bite marks that it was gratuitous, violent, excessive pain 0:18:05.460 --> 0:18:07.919 and suffering on the soft tissue while she was still alive. 0:18:08.420 --> 0:18:10.600 The pain and suffering she must have went through. Or 0:18:10.700 --> 0:18:13.600 because they're great at covering any possibilities on all their bases, 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.160 And he said, or it was after she was already dead. 0:18:16.460 --> 0:18:19.000 That's heinous and depraved. That's tampering with a dead body. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.940 That's just sick. And it's all his suppositions. He don't 0:18:21.980 --> 0:18:24.119 know what happened, but he even had a dress dummy 0:18:24.180 --> 0:18:26.389 up there showing how this was hacked and this was 0:18:26.470 --> 0:18:29.090 cut and how she was bitten. I mean, very, very powerful. 0:18:29.109 --> 0:18:30.869 And then, of course, came the defense's turn to put 0:18:30.910 --> 0:18:33.730 on the mitigating. Well, how do you mitigate something you 0:18:33.750 --> 0:18:36.570 didn't do? How do you show remorse or regret for 0:18:36.590 --> 0:18:38.909 an act you never committed? I told my turn, I 0:18:38.950 --> 0:18:40.590 got nothing to apologize for. I didn't kill her. They 0:18:40.609 --> 0:18:42.940 got the wrong person. He said, well, we'll put your family, 0:18:42.980 --> 0:18:44.679 your friends on. We can have them testify to your 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.980