1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Coarntia and I'm Alexa Kristen. 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Atlandia episode seventeen. Did you like that 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: at Landia? It was very nice. It's like October. It 11 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: felt very Halloween, Halloween. You like, yeah, that's good. Um, 12 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: So we're not going to get into our usual preamble today. 13 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: It was advertising week last week. Yeah, And I think 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: if you want to know our thoughts and opinions, you 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: can go over to Atlandia podcast on Twitter. A lot 16 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: of common themes, what's the future of the agency look like, 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: big data, data, data, data, data, conversations around data. One 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: of the funniest things I saw was UM a twee 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: about artificial intelligence and somebody said, I will give somebody 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: five bucks. I AI actually means UM, which is super 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: indicative of where our industry is. That so we have 22 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts on Advertising Week, we have a 23 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: lot of thoughts on industry events in general, but we're 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: like panels, like, yeah, we're so bored with some of them. Actually, 25 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: can I just say one thing. I was impressed with 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: the I A B. They did very small UM what 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: they were calling leadership dialogues UM, And I got to 28 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: catch John Martin, who's the CEO of Turner Broadcasting. It 29 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: was a really honest, great conversation. There may have been 30 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: maybe fifty people in the room and we were sitting 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: with him. And I think that that model, the format, 32 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: the physical format of it was really um refreshing. I 33 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: give Randall Rothenberg and all the folks over at the 34 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: IB big props on that because it was just a 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: refreshing format. And I actually felt like I got to 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: know John a little bit, if I can call him that, 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: Mr Martin. So it's good because the concept of panel 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: is just sometimes speaking to an empty room or it's 39 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: really tough. Advertising week, A lot of it takes place 40 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: in the middle of time square and just happened to 41 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: be like ninety seven degrees last week. UM, which makes 42 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: for a lot of fun and dodging people to get 43 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: to your panel and your sweating and your bronze are running, 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: or maybe that was just me, but I think you know, 45 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: ultimately and a lot of people were talking about the 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: idea of moving to that sort of intimate format and 47 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: I got the opportunity to speak on a panel UM 48 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: with for Notch and UM. They did a gorgeous job 49 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: for their connach Felt connach k and otc H, a 50 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: measurement company, and Ono Ganska, their CEO, did a beautiful 51 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: job putting together both her super Normal awards, complimented with 52 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: a panel discussion in an intimate theater UM, which was 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: really cool and different. It was nice to get out 54 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: of UM Times Square. So I think we're gonna come back. 55 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: We're gonna come back with some ideas, and we're even 56 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: thinking about some things for Atlantia, So you know, I 57 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 1: r L Anyway, with that said, I've got Ben Deats 58 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: coming in from Vice UM. He is the s VP 59 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: of Sales Advice and we have a really I think 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: exciting conversation kind of teat up. So hope you enjoy 61 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: it all. We'll be right back. What's up at Landia. 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: We're back with vices. Ben deats Hi, Ben deats Hi, 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: how are you? Ben is the s VP of sales 64 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: at Vice. Welcome Ben, Thank you. So the story of you. 65 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: You just told us that you were like employee numbers six. 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: What I always tell people is when I got device, 67 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: I was one of twelve people in the office, and 68 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: I'm now one of here in New York. Um, in 69 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: terms of global seniority, there are fifteen or so people 70 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: who have been with the company longer than I. But 71 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: you know that doesn't translate anything other than just like 72 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: showing up at the office for the most con INU 73 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: this number of days. So how many years is that? 74 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: You know? It's so funny when people talk about new media. 75 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: By the way, on that note, UM sometimes say Advice 76 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: and I'm like, dude, Vice has been around since like 77 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, the early nineties, and I remember reading 78 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: Vice and like early two thousand's saying Okay, this is cool, 79 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: this is new. I can get into this. And I 80 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: was a big indie music fan, and I you know, 81 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: bordered in the punk world and all the stuff, and 82 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: I loved the things you guys were talking about. At 83 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: that point, it was a lot of like music culture, 84 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: you know, content, and now you guys have evolved into 85 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: you know, a full blown media company and news organization. Yeah. 86 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: What I often tell people is that I picked up 87 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: Vice for the first time as a twenty three year 88 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: old marketing assistant at a record label on a skateboard literally, 89 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: and I'm now the father of two with a mortgage 90 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: and you know, a whole adult life. Vices continued to 91 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: be a consistent source of culture and of news for 92 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: me throughout out. That has changed from being super music related, 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: you know when I worked in the music business, to 94 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: being much more concerned about now macro issues in the world. 95 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: And I think it's a testament to the vision of 96 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: the guys in the first place, that they set up 97 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: a business that would be able to grow with audience 98 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: while at the same time bringing new audiences in through 99 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: exploring other topics that we've never thought of. So, if 100 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: if you were to channel Shane Smith today, would the 101 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: Shane Smith vision for vice Um have deviated from its 102 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: original intent today as opposed to well, I think there's 103 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: two things, or would I believe that the guys were 104 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: so prescient in setting up in the first place. This 105 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: is Shane and Serrouge, you know, bolstered by guys like 106 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: Eddie Muretty who's our our chief content officer and the 107 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: president of Iceland, and Eric Lavoix, who is the publisher 108 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: for many years and now runs b D for our 109 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: our agency group. Um, those guys wanted to tell stories 110 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: to their friends in the voice that they spoke to 111 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: their friends in, and they wanted to just make sure 112 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: that the content was available wherever their friends wanted to 113 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: consume it. So I don't think there's ever really been 114 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: a pivot in terms of changing those two axioms. And 115 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: then beyond that, Shane is I don't know if you've 116 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: ever spent any time with him, but he is a 117 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: huge personality and somebody that believes that he can uh 118 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: take on the world and should because there's a better 119 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: way to do it than the world, you know, maybe 120 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: operating with. So I don't think it's been there have 121 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: been pivots. I think it's been evolution throughout as we've 122 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: gotten older, as we've gotten more successful, as we've come 123 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: to the sense that possibility was more than possibility, it 124 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: was achievable and it was out our grasp, and then 125 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: that it was responsibility, which is kind of how we 126 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: feel now. So you said something about Vice kind of 127 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: having grown up, kind of gotten into its maturation years. However, 128 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: many now we're in a decade too. Um. Three three 129 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: of the business. If you as the head of sales, 130 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: what are some of the ill kind of conceived notions 131 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: about what Vice was as opposed to where it is now? 132 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: And if you're kind of walking in too to meet 133 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: with Alexa and I today, what would be sort of 134 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: the elevator pitch for what the brand stands for today's culture. Well, look, 135 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: I think to answer the misconceptions thing first, the primary 136 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: misconception that we have struggled with over the course of 137 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: time is that we are in it to be provocative 138 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: or to be controversial in any way, shape or form. 139 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is that we are not provocateurs. 140 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: We are, we hope, reporters of the vernacular and and 141 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: the culture of young people. UM. But it's hard because 142 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: sometimes young people speak in terms that are not you know, 143 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: the most palatable too big companies, and sometimes because that 144 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: reporting is unvarnished and you know, is very different than 145 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: what people are used to receiving. UM. So that's the 146 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: bit that we struggle with the bit that I think 147 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: we try to cast ourselves as now is a the 148 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: most important because of the bread the stories that we 149 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: cover and the inclusivity of our point of view, and 150 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: be the most influential in that we are willing to 151 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: take on forms and formats that nobody else uses or 152 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: does to driving the media landscape forward for young people especially, 153 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: but hopefully increasingly for you know, audiences generally. What does 154 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: that look like, because I think a lot of people 155 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: are like, yeah, VR, oh yeah, podcasting, oh yeah, this 156 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: and that and that, But it's not necessarily those types 157 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: of formats that you're talking about. No. I mean, look, 158 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: I think it's the When we launched the nightly news 159 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: show on HBO, Josh Tarangol, who came over from Bloomberg 160 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: to run that and has a great news background and 161 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: ironically as a it was an inspiration of mine in college, 162 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: he just said, basically, look, if we want to transform 163 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: the nightly news show, let's get rid of the sacred 164 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: elements of it. Um. And I'm putting words in Josh's 165 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: mouth here, of course, but it's like, get rid of 166 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: the host, get rid of the voice of God, have 167 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: it be uh, an experience that flows the way that 168 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: content flows through your social feeds or through the modern 169 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: content feeds, and that's going to be demonstrably different than 170 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: anything else in the news space, and it's going to 171 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: be more in tune with the way our audience wants 172 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: to consume. And I had a really fascinating meeting the 173 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: other day with some of the news producers who pointed 174 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: out one of them came from radio and she's been 175 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: in charge of producing a lot of segments that are 176 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: animated because she's like, look, there are things you can 177 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: do in the audio medium that you can't do with 178 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: film medium, but I can then animate them and I 179 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: can bring all of the depth of film and insight, sound, 180 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: emotion to them without changing the fundamentals of you know, 181 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: the moment. Yeah, the story. One of the things that 182 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: an Alexa and I for years have been sort of 183 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: frustrated with the way people say TV has to fit 184 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: into the confines of linear and so you know, Live 185 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: allows us to challenge some of that. But you guys 186 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: have presumably taken on what I've enjoyed. I think we've 187 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: actually talked about it on the show quite a bit. 188 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: Is about creating stickiness in formats that don't necessarily lend 189 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: themselves to innovation. And one of the things that I appreciate, 190 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: and I think a points i'd like pulled us to 191 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: the front of your presentation was it was the first 192 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: time I had heard somebody talk about using commercial pods 193 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: or breaks in shows to create more sticky content. And 194 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: I don't even think you refer to them, Commercius. I 195 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: think you say interstitials and so kind of challenge. And 196 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: I know that we talked. We talked about this a 197 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and I was like eight hundred 198 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: months pregnant. We were talking about what Yeah, it was 199 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: eight hundred months pregnant, and it was hotter than hell, 200 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: and it was in Brooklyn. You guys maybe walk up 201 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: a lot of that was it? Because it was before 202 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: the elevator was done. We talked about this and it 203 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: was the major differentiator than any other conversation I had 204 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: had at the time. And we were sitting down and 205 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: I had just been in like China like five months before, 206 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: talking to some of your counterparts Advice China and talking 207 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: about how, um, you had no rules that I mean 208 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: to me, it was that simple, right, It was like 209 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: we don't have rules in terms of like thirty second 210 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: time limits. We don't have We're not locked into something 211 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: badcast or thirty minute exactly the broadcasting Laura and I 212 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: were like, yes, this is what we're talking about, and 213 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: I think it's cool, Like there's a very small group 214 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: of people today that we can talk to or put 215 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: into this sort of club that is taking the format 216 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: of linear or just broadcast television and saying why does 217 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: it have to exist in thirty or sixty minute programs? 218 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: Why can't be a bunch of twelve minute, thirty second 219 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: to you know whatever, minute pieces strung together to tell 220 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: great stories. So can you talk about sort of where 221 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: the inspiration of that has gone post HBO and into 222 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: the Iceland world. Yeah, I mean, I think the interesting 223 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: thing is to go way back actually, and I don't 224 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: know if either of you saw the episode of Epically Later, 225 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: which is the our long standing, like since literally two 226 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: thousand seven skateboard show, But we just brought us to 227 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: Iceland and we did an episode on Spike Jones, who 228 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: is of course the co president of the network, and 229 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: then also one of our creative eminence is from back 230 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: in the day and a partner and a friend and 231 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: somebody who kind of look like Spike Jones. Noone never 232 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: tell you that. Yeah, I've heard it once, it's twice. 233 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: I take it as an incredible, incredible commum. Spikes a 234 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: very handsome and very life young man. Um. But if 235 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: you go back to the culture that Spike came out of, 236 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: the d I y culture, that Shaneon Serrouch came out of, 237 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: the filmmaking culture, that Eddie came out of, what I 238 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: think you find is this common um, you know, approach 239 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: to storytelling, which is very iterative, which is not terribly 240 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: concerned with format um, but is more concerned with experimentation 241 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: and fun, and which is kind of always on right. 242 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: And so when you come out of those worlds, the 243 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: idea of this super segmented experience of linear or of 244 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: any medium feels a little stunted, right. And And even 245 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: if I think about skateboard magazines when I was a kid, 246 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: and I grew up reading them and looking at Spikes photos, 247 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: and we've got to know each other a little bit 248 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: over the course time, it's like the ads were content, 249 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: the content was ads. It was all the same experience. 250 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: It was all seamless. And I think that what what 251 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: they wanted to create with Iceland was just that experience 252 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: of constant voice and um an interest that extended through 253 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: the advertising and extended through the content went back into 254 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: the advertising. Because the truth matter is brands Cannon should 255 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: operate in in every media platform so long as they're 256 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: adding value and as so long as they're they make sense, 257 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: they're right. Like I don't read Vogue for the articles 258 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: in Vogue. I read Vogue for the ads. And that's 259 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: not because I work in sales, it's because I want 260 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: or in media. It's because those ads are giving me 261 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: the full spectrum of viewpoints, not just what an editor 262 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: has picked out for me. To know. It's a really 263 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: really interesting point to Yeah, like the fact that it's 264 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: not what the editor has curated. It's kind of this 265 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: bifocal kind of intersection of culture and content. And I 266 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: guess what else somebody would care it for you. I've 267 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: never actually thought of it that way. I think you 268 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: have to, and I think you have to part of it, right, 269 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: and part of setting up an ecosystem like that, or 270 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: a consumer experience like that audience experience, is that you 271 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: are really giving the audience full credit for being able 272 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: to know what is valuable to them, what is authentic 273 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: to them, and what is not. Whether it is picked 274 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: by an editor and highly especially curated, or whether it 275 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: is placed there by a publisher who is either Kenny 276 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: or not Um, the audience ultimately makes the decision about that, 277 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: and I think I think, you know, the more you're 278 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: able to create a native environment for content and advertisement, 279 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: the more credit you're giving to the audience. I also 280 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: think you're giving a ton of credit. And I have 281 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: been like dying to say this as we're talking, like 282 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: you're giving it a lot of credit to brands that 283 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: they actually should be there, and it's weird. I actually 284 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: think brands have like a little bit of a self 285 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: deprecating attitude nowadays where they don't actually think they belong 286 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: at the same level as content. Well, you know, it's 287 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: like editorial. I just finished recently Um Andrew Essex's book 288 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: The End of Advertising. I think the point that Andrew 289 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: makes very sharply and and cleverly, maybe not even cleverly, 290 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: just effectively, is that the entire model has been based 291 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: on interruption to this point, and because we have now 292 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: the effectiveness and some of the placements of advertising breaking 293 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: down with TV viewership decreasing, with you know, all of 294 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: the fraud and and and spoofing that goes on in 295 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: the digital world. Um, it's easy as an advertiser, I 296 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: would imagine to look at it and go, yeah, people 297 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: kind of don't want me here. I mean I've been 298 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: interrupting them, and I've been you know, serving them crap 299 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: in places that they didn't expect to see it, and 300 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: so I should occupy this position of liability. I don't 301 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: think that's true. I think I think they. I think 302 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: I think brands need to step up and go I 303 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: need to be a contributor here because if I'm not, 304 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm nobody's going to pay attention. That's right, I agree. 305 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: I also think they need to see that they have value. 306 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: That's for me, the most important part of the conversation. 307 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: Laura was on a panel last week at Advertising Week 308 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: and she said something I thought was really right and smart. Um, 309 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: you're right, and you're welcome. You're right and welcome was 310 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: moderated by my colleague Spencer. It was and she said, 311 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, brands are going to start um getting into 312 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: this space because they have they're getting pressed to act, 313 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: and that's accountability. In a post truth world. And I'm 314 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: totally paraphrasing, but that's exactly what we're talking about. And 315 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: it's not just no one's going to pay attention to 316 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: you if you don't get in this game. It's you 317 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: need to go deep and find your own value, find 318 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: where your employees value you, find where your consumers and 319 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: customers value you, and then bring it back into some 320 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: kind of you know, I don't content or entertainment experience 321 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: or something. I don't think we spent enough time in 322 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: this show talking about the role of sales in our industry. 323 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: And something that you said sparked a thought, and I think, 324 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, I've struggled with what is the role of 325 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: a salesperson? And this sort of posts you know, content 326 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: of the world where all the lines are blurring, and 327 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: you've got programmers, you've got engineers, you've got product people, 328 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: which are normally the people that I want to talk to. 329 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: But I think what you just identified a minute ago, 330 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: in terms of talking about the role of sales in 331 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: programming the spaces that an editor in chief or or um, yeah, 332 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: I guess you call it an inner chief is responsible 333 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: for programming versus a publisher, versus a publisher. Um, is 334 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: it fair to say, Ben Deets, in this new world 335 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: we're playing in that you're really sort of an editor 336 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: and commercial because I think it's interesting when it kind 337 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: of take because the role and responsibility on the salespeople 338 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: not just to think about making and the post sale um, 339 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: but actually programming the space. And I think when we 340 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: start taking sales people out of just the transactional part 341 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: and start moving them into the production part, that's where 342 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: it gets interesting money. I don't think all sales people 343 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: can do it, but well it's it's okay, So I 344 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: should hasten to say that. To call myself an editor, 345 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: much less an editor in chief is a radical overreach 346 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: that I would never ascribe to, but it is. I 347 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: think what you've identified is that is a belief that 348 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: I've held for a long time, which is that salespeople, 349 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: development people, brand connections people, whatever your job title is 350 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: pre sale, thinking about how to try to solve a 351 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: business is problem through your platform. Is that you have 352 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: to think, from an editorial point of view about what's 353 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: the audience going to care the most about and what 354 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: are they going to take away from this? And how 355 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: if I were sitting on the other side of the 356 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: screen or the magazine or the television. Um, how would 357 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 1: I interpret this branch presence here as the most additive 358 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: and the most interesting? Um? Can I Can I digress 359 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: for a second, because I just want to I want 360 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 1: to tell you a story that I found. Well, it's 361 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: one of my favorite anecdotes of late It's about vice, 362 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: of course, because all my favorite ancdotes are bad and skateboarding. Um. 363 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: I came home the other night. This is probably a 364 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago now, after you know, being out 365 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: with some clients, uh, talking about you know, whatever it 366 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: is that we talked about in the sales and business 367 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: development world with our clients, and having had a couple 368 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: of wines, shall we say? And uh, and I put 369 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: on Viceland and it was the season finale of a 370 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: show called American boy Band, which is a show about 371 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: hip hop group called brock Hampton fronted by a guy 372 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: named Kevin Abstract. Kevin Abstract and his brock Hampton boys 373 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: met on the Kanye ted a website or a message 374 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: board a few years ago. This is a Kanye super 375 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: fans and the trolls who love to bait them, um, 376 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: talking to each other about whatever it is that Kanye 377 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: was working on Circle My twisted dark Fantasy, and Um, 378 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: Kevin found a community of sort of like minded weirdos 379 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: in that message board. Um, he is openly gay, is 380 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, openly going through this journey of self discovery. 381 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: Really fascinating character. But he put together this crew of people, 382 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: largely through sort of sending messages and and and songs 383 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: back and forth, formed them into a group. They all 384 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: move into a house in in l A. And uh, 385 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: then they start releasing music the internet through SoundCloud and 386 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: Spotify and and YouTube starts picking it up. And suddenly 387 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: they have enough of a fan base that they can 388 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: go on a national tour. So our guys, um said, 389 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: we want to follow you on the national tour and 390 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: go out as you meet your fans and you know, 391 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: find all these teenagers on this journey of self discovery 392 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: and this kind of stuff. It's it's a real you know, 393 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: it's an it's an American youth story in that regard. 394 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: But the thing that happened in the finale, because I 395 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,719 Speaker 1: missed the entire show and I'm going back and watching 396 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: it v O D now, Um, the thing that happens 397 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: in the finale is they get home from this tour 398 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: energized and exhausted from all of this you know, experience 399 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: that they've had, and they make something like five music 400 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: videos over the course of a weekend. Every one of 401 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: them has a different style, a different production value, a 402 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: different narrative, a different sort of platform centric approach. And 403 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: I watched the show and in twenty two minutes they 404 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: blew up ad Agencies. I was just like, okay, well, 405 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: that's the end of ad agencies right there. There needs 406 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: to be a sound effect on that cam. It was. 407 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: It was just like, right, okay, So you've got twelve kids, 408 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: twelve kids in a house in Los Angeles working at 409 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, this prodigious level of output um with no rules, 410 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: but also with this incredible sense of of of possibility 411 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: and shared admission, and you're just like, okay, right, you're 412 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: that's going to come through my Facebook feed the same 413 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: as a piece of content from Vice that we've you know, 414 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: labored over and sent somebody to to to to Antarcticle 415 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: four and at the same time, the TV spot or 416 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: the um you know, Native ad or whatever it is 417 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: that brands produced, and I was just like, Paradigm ship, 418 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: It's interesting from the first time I had our conversation. Um, 419 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: and I was skeptical, by the way, super skeptical. Laurel 420 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: will tell you. I was like for me, I was like, 421 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: which will we'll say for the outtakes? Yeah, we're going 422 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: to save that for Instagram. Um. But but you know 423 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: what I was pleasantly surprised by, not only was your 424 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: shared love of art and your deep knowledge of data 425 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: and other things that I love. UM okay, sorry, yeah, anyway, 426 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: was um, you had a different rhetoric and a different 427 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: language that you were speaking a little compared to compared 428 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: to other other I would say, media companies, other media 429 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: companies and sales heads of sales and c r o 430 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: s at other media companies. Is that something that you're 431 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: conscious of? Advice? I mean, when you're talking to advertisers, right, 432 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: and I was coming in as an advertiser, and you're 433 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: talking to an advertiser. You weren't saying authenticity, you weren't 434 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: saying pre roll all. You weren't saying and those are 435 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: You weren't even talking about tone and the relationship between 436 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: your company and my company the same way most people do. 437 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: Are you conscious of that a little bit? The sense. Yeah, 438 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: I have a point, but I want to hear his will. 439 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: It makes sense to me. I mean, look, there's there's 440 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: kind of two way stands to that. Right. One is 441 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, any business relationship 442 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: is a human relationship, and if we don't like each other, 443 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: the business that we're going to do is probably not 444 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: going to be as fruitful as it could be if 445 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: we liked each other. So what I always try to 446 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: do is find um, shared points of interest or or 447 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: just you know, points of human connection. Right. Um. But 448 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: I think the thing that Vice does differently as a 449 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: culture those of us have been around for any period 450 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: of time, UM, is that we we've realized and internalized 451 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: that with as many headwinds as we face, because the 452 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: company is called Vice, because we have chosen a path 453 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: that um is truthful and unvarnished and um not necessarily 454 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: to the conscription of traditional media. Um. And can I 455 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: add and some antagonistic well we yeah. I mean, look, 456 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: I think we can be if we have to say that. 457 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: I think we can be if we believe that the 458 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: point of view opposing ours is wrong, right, Like, I 459 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: don't think there's anything wrong with being antagonistic in that case. 460 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: But um, it's it's not a that is not a mission, 461 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: but it is certainly a byproduct from time to time. Um. 462 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: The thing that we realized was that if we don't 463 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: charm and uh and convince people that we are more 464 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: than the sum of the printed page or um, you know, 465 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: the sum of the of of the stories that people 466 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: have overheard about us, UM, that we were gonna lose. 467 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: And I think there's a I My favorite thing, right 468 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: is that our most senior executives send notes to each 469 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,959 Speaker 1: other and to our clients and to our friends, you know, 470 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: people that we want to work with, which are to 471 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: the effect of, you don't love me anymore. And that's 472 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: the note. That's like alex and and I aint given Tuesday, right, 473 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: But I mean, look, that's are you you guys are friends, right, 474 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: That's that's how you talked to each other. You talked 475 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: to you, you talked to your friends that way. It's 476 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: about signaling. Uh, I care more about you and and 477 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: the quality of this relationship than I do about transacting 478 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: at this particular time. And Shane, you know as a 479 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: famous famous story with advice where he talked about somebody 480 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: who was a dear friend of his um early on 481 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: in the company, and they hired him to come in 482 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: and sell ads because the guy was so gung ho 483 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: and the guy couldn't get past the cold call routine 484 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: of Hey, this is Ben from Vice, would you like 485 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: to buy advertising at this time? And that that that 486 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: phrase is memorialized in our in our culture, because it's like, 487 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: that's what you cannot do. That for me, the way 488 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: to articulate what you're doing, the way you talk about 489 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: the relationship with the advertiser beyond the human relationship, right 490 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: the actual artifacts of commercial right of commercializing something sure 491 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: is different to observations that I've noticed that are clear distinctions. 492 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: And if there are c r O s listening right now, 493 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: there are two notes that I would walk away from 494 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: the school of bend deat sales would be one um. 495 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: The people that you hire are entertainers and their creators. 496 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: And I think there's a fundamental difference. You came here 497 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: and didn't say that you know, I'm a salesperson or 498 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: I'm a business guy, or you know, I'm I'm after 499 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: the hustle. It's like I'm an artist and I love 500 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: fucking skateboarding. I think, well that that's totally and this 501 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: is where your background comes in, by the way, you know, 502 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: and I've met a ton of other people that have 503 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: lots of passions that extend far beyond the advertising and 504 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: marketing world, and I think that that speaks volumes about 505 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: the way people conduct themselves, which goes to my next 506 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: point is that people actually live and breathe the Vice brand. 507 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: And I don't know how many UM people that I've 508 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,239 Speaker 1: met that they don't just pass through and they're there 509 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: to three teen months and they're dropping into my inbox 510 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: from the next you know, insert media publisher here. You 511 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: guys walk around with you know, Vice gold rings, and 512 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: it's sort of this cult like attitude, UM that even 513 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: if it's I can't do business or for whatever reason, 514 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's not business, not the right time, I 515 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: still walk away from a conversation with those guys believe 516 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 1: in the ship that they're selling. And I cannot say 517 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: that I can't even count on one hand the amount 518 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: of sales organizations that I have met in this industry 519 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: that I buy into the same way and buying device, 520 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: so kind of shifting gears into sort of brand and 521 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: media world. One of the things that you want to 522 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: talk to us today about is the idea of sponsorships 523 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: UM by any other name? And I think you guys 524 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: have kind of stood up and defied logic in terms 525 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: of form and function. But what does that mean to 526 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: you as somebody who's out there selling products every day? 527 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: What does that look like? Okay, So I wanted I 528 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: I texted you that I wanted to talk about sponsorship 529 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: by any other name, UM, shout out to Shakespeare, um. 530 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: Because I wanted to. I wanted to throw that as 531 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: a provocation to the two of you, because I believe 532 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: in my conversations and in what I hear aback an 533 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: acdotally from from members of my team, that sponsor and 534 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 1: sponsorship are essentially bad words that we should strike from 535 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: our conversations as it relates to trying to convey how 536 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: I bring value to you. Um true false? Uh No, 537 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: hold on. So I would say in the world of advertising, 538 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: why that has become a bad and ugly word is 539 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: because it's been on a lot of shitty banners and 540 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: a lot of shitty media, right, and it has attached 541 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: brands two things that they have no business being attached to. 542 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: And I think that as the as a word right 543 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: and as a um, as a mean ning, it's actually 544 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: quite nice. We we're we believe in this, right, so 545 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: we're putting our name on it. Now. What we've done 546 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: to it is put sponsorship, sponsorship, sponsorship everywhere, and all 547 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you've got bud Light and I don't 548 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: know sponsoring I too much. Not saying bad, I'm not saying, 549 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: but it's a bad bud light whomever. It doesn't matter 550 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: who you are, like a bubbly drink, right, bubbly drink 551 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: against something that doesn't feel like the brand, I think, 552 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: And that's a big issue the industry has, is Alexa 553 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: saying bastardize the word sponsor. And when somebody comes and 554 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: they sell typically say in this space, we want to 555 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: sell you a sponsorship. I'm like, so if you don't 556 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: sell it to me, you're definitely going to sell it 557 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: to my competitor. Right. It's become this sort of um 558 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: it's becomes synonymous with badging and this idea that you've 559 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: got a great idea to sell just coming and you know, 560 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: underwrite it essentially also and stop your shitty logo on it. Yeah, 561 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: And I think the the idea of bad ng or 562 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: logo slapping UM has diluted, you know, the ability for 563 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: brands to come to the table in an authentic, thoughtful, articulate, 564 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: meaningful way. And so Alex and I are hell bent 565 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: on the filter for successful partnerships UM with media companies, 566 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, under the title of co produced in partnership 567 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: with because at least you have to things like that, 568 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: because at least in our vein that filter signals that 569 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: this is something we sat down at the table at 570 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: we have a vested interested in collaborating on, and it's 571 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: something we're going together to the marketplace with. That is, 572 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, showing the shared ethos between our brand and 573 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: your media company. For example, you know what did I'm 574 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: like when you walked in the door. I was talking 575 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: to you about this the podcast Mogul that's a Gimlet 576 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: and loud Speaker partnership, and I binged it in the 577 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks and like, not a couple of weeks, 578 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: a couple of days actually, um, because I got so 579 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: into it and the way that they were doing UM 580 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: quote sponsorships advertising right, UM is just smart, was just right. 581 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: So bud Light, they were doing some bud light um. 582 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: Uh mid roles, I think, and they didn't feel like 583 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: mid roles at all. It was real content. It totally 584 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: made sense. It was people sitting around talking about a 585 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: specific thing in UM, in hip hop music, UM around 586 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: a couple of bud lights. Now that sounds really trite, 587 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: but the way they did it, And a lot of 588 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: this is the beauty is in the execution. I just 589 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: talked to someone about this the other day. UM, A 590 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: lot of the beauty in these ideas is also in 591 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: the execution. So you have to have the right producers. 592 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: You have to have the right people you are just 593 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: sitting at the table. Yeah, I agree. You also have 594 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 1: to have you have to have the right attitude. I mean, 595 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: to me, the part of the the problem with our 596 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: existing condition around sponsorship and part of which we have 597 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: to solve fast as an industry, and that I think 598 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: we've done a pretty good job of starting to move 599 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: in the direction is that you're your creative people, your 600 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: agency people, your your who whomever it is who are 601 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: your words smiths and are going to represent your brand 602 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: when you are a brand, when whoever is gonna you know, 603 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: represent your brand in those spaces, they have to be 604 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: thinking like, how do I interrupt less? How do I 605 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: add more? How do I how do I avoid uh 606 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: the simple tagline and think a little harder about what 607 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: the real intent behind the What do I want to watch? 608 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: What do I want to listen to? What do I 609 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 1: want to be entertained by? How do I actually want 610 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: to commune with these people? All all that stuff? Can 611 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: I just say this? I would love it? Can you 612 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: guys maybe do this that you probably will never do this, 613 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:47,959 Speaker 1: but if a media company or a publisher actually asked 614 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: for a true like to brief the agency on what 615 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: is your the sorry, brief the client on what's your contribution? 616 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: That's a good idea. I love that, right, let's do that. Let' 617 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: see that. And I also like the It's fine, I'm 618 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: gonna tout one of my own sort of random ideas. 619 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: I look, I think part of part of the reason 620 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: we've been successful is because we're also open to random 621 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: stuff like this. I wrote, Uh, one of my guys 622 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: who's in charge of our podcast efforts to that, and 623 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: I said, hey, I was reading. I was reading about 624 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: Spotify allowing advertisers to create their own ads through their platform, 625 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: which I think is really I have not explored what 626 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: it's like technically, but I think as an idea that's 627 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: really smart. We have on Viceland an eight a six 628 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: or six number where our viewers call up and leave 629 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: messages on the six or six number, and we pair 630 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: it with really beautiful scenic photography shot on drones that um, 631 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: you know, kind of brings us to bring, brings you 632 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: out of the content moment and brings you to this 633 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: kind of uh meditative place. And then you get somebody 634 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: on the voicemail saying something really weird. I said, I 635 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: said to John, who I sent this to you? I said, hey, 636 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: why don't we set up a means by which brands 637 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: can call our voicemail and leave their own ads, like 638 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: literally speak into the into the voicemail and leave your ad, 639 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: and then we figure out a way to to run 640 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: that at some kind of should we have a promo 641 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: code on this show so I can say at Landia 642 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: ten and they can get temporature in any case? I 643 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: like that, Uh, that thought right, And so it's interesting, Laura, 644 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: you said something to me a couple of weeks ago 645 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: which I love and which I I I would like 646 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: to be the condition with which we work with all 647 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: our agency partners and brands. You said, yeah, we shouldn't 648 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: ever RFPU at all. We should just call you up 649 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: and say, here's an idea that we have. How do 650 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: you interpret this? And well, I mean, look, you guys 651 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 1: are are are way ahead of the rest of the business. 652 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: Although I think many people are now moving to what, 653 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: as I say, fewer better partnerships and and that kind 654 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: of stuff. So you know, hopefully there's inertia behind that thought. Um. 655 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,479 Speaker 1: The The the other thing that that we don't get 656 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: very often is um is brand's explicitly saying to us, hey, 657 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: this is how we want to be represented. Is this 658 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: authentic in in your space and then being willing to 659 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: hear if the actual yeah, exactly killed by d I 660 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: Y in the industry, what would you kill? What would 661 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: you buy? Because it's that good? And what are you 662 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: like funking? I could do myself? Um So kill is 663 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: the the sense that there is an easy solution that 664 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: allows everybody to just plug and play, get the optimum 665 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: results with the minimum friction and uh still the entertain 666 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: audiences and drive brand value. Just guys, this is work. 667 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: We call it work because it's work. You gotta work 668 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: at it. Um By uh, so many. I'd like to 669 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: buy something that helps us fight the preconceived notion of 670 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,439 Speaker 1: what Vice was ten years ago as being what Vice 671 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: is now. But I don't think is Atlanta. I think yeah, 672 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: I think you know they're there. I don't think there's 673 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 1: necessarily a silver bullet for that. I think that's again 674 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: it goes back to the first thing. That's hard work. 675 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: That's just us continuing to make our points over and 676 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: over again. UM do it yourself. I wish we could 677 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: do ironically video syndication at scale ourselves, right like we 678 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: can do it working through the big platforms. But it's 679 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: tricky to not control your own destiny and to um 680 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: have to be at their you know, subject to their 681 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: business strategies and not to our own. So I would 682 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: love to d I y that UM, which is going 683 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: to make my platform people crazy because they were going 684 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: to say, Ben, We've been working on that for years, 685 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say, yes, I know. But at the 686 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: same time, it's my fantasy, and I think it's as 687 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: an industry, it's going to be an issue for every 688 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,760 Speaker 1: media company in every form content creators if they don't 689 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: own it. And so I think eventually so awesome, Thank you, 690 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,320 Speaker 1: thanks so much, thank you for coming. Where can people 691 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: find you? I was just gonna say, aren't you gonna 692 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: ask like there's a sales guy? No, because I'm saying, like, 693 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: reach out to me, especially if you like that voicemail idea, 694 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: because I'm really trying to you know, ten ten percent 695 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: or ten cents, you'll say, if you like, she would 696 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: get gold. I'm easy to remember. I don't carry business 697 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 1: cards anymore, so I had to get a simple email address. 698 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: It's just ben Advice dot com. Perfect. Thanks Bendet's my pleasure. 699 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: Thank you guys very much. So that was a good conversation. 700 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: I love be He's smart, super smart, super articulate, thoughtful. 701 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: Consider it. Yeah, admittedly I've gone from being a skeptic 702 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: to sort of a super fan advice. Yeah, yeah, you have. 703 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: It's funny. Yeah, you took me a while to come around. 704 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: And I think it was that very personality and I 705 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: think you were getting to it with throughout the show 706 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: and just like what it means to buy into the 707 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, And I think once you kind of 708 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: get under the hood and understand the perspective that it 709 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: is that they're after, which I think we've seen a 710 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: great deal shine through UM in recent light of just 711 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: things going on in culture. UM. I've really enjoyed their perspective. 712 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: I think it's needed. Yeah, and they have a different 713 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 1: vernacular and I think that that's really interesting and Ben 714 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: is an amazing representation of that. So, you know, intelligent 715 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: and uh, I think thoughtful about how he approaches clients 716 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: and quote unquote selling or as he says, salesman with 717 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: a capital S, which I think was really kind of funny. Anyway, 718 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: So Ben Deat's big, thanks, appreciate it. Hope you um 719 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: didn't miss your daughter soccer game, and uh, big thanks 720 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: to Cameron Drew's our producer. You're looking a little bit 721 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: shy of eighteen years old camp, so we're really proud 722 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: of you that you're kind of almost at eighteen episodes. 723 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: I think he's eighteen years yeah. Probably Also our friends 724 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: of family of Panably, Matt Tour, Andy Bowers, Jacob Weisberg. 725 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, But one more thing before we go. One 726 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: more thing. It's a request out to the Atlantia community. 727 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: We've had amazing reviews, we're having great conversations, but we 728 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: would love you guys to review if you're enjoying the 729 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,399 Speaker 1: Adlandia experience. We would love you guys a review Atlantia 730 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcast, so please go over to Apple Podcasts, 731 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 1: go to the Atlantia page, click on the review tab, 732 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: write us a review, and don't forget to follow us 733 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 1: on Atlantia podcast on Twitter. We are having so much 734 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: fun going back, debating, retweeting all of the fun things 735 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: that you are finding in the industry. Don't stop. We'll 736 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: be back in two weeks. Within all new episode, get 737 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: It get a Atlandia full disclosure, our opinions are our 738 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: own and as the outro question, what does it take 739 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: to get a Vice Gold Ring? So, uh, the Vice 740 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: Gold Ring is given to people at some point in 741 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: their tenure at the company there and I say this 742 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: in all sincerity. There is not a lot of rhyme 743 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: or reason to it. Um. We've started to put in 744 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: some processes where you know, people who are outstanding performers 745 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: get nominated by their manners and stuff. But for years 746 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: you got one because you were there at the right time. 747 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: And uh, I happen to be there and you know 748 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,879 Speaker 1: November of two thousand five, which was the right time 749 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: to get So it's the real gold or gold plated. 750 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 1: Oh no, this is gold. This is gold. And that's 751 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: part of the reason that that not everybody has one. 752 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: For your best brand partners have the opportunity to get 753 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: one because I really want. So. You're not a brand partner, 754 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: you're an agency partner. Many brands interesting you should if 755 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: I hit a certain number, if we can get some thresholds, um, 756 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: I will say this, we reserve the rings for family 757 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: and so um. There may have been one or two 758 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: partners over the course of time who come to be 759 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: regarded as family and may have been bestowed something. You 760 00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: just gave Laura goldps but like the editive and you 761 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: just gave her a goal. I'm happy. I'm you know, 762 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: I like working for But by the same choken, I 763 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: think we've been able to use the sort of mystique 764 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: of the gold ring to create value for some of 765 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: other partners. We did a huge program with Geico recently, 766 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 1: and the team that worked on that. As a shout 767 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: out to the Geico team made Geico gold rings and 768 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: that team works for real goal. Uh yeah, I think so. 769 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: It might have been who makes off Comma. Thanks a lot, Ben. 770 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: You are welcome back anytime. You're always the show very 771 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: much