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Speaker 1: On April twenty seventh, nineteen sixty one, John F. Kennedy's

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Speaker 1: plane touched down at LaGuardia Airport. It was his first

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Speaker 1: visit to New York since becoming president. He stepped off

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Speaker 1: the aircraft and slid into a black limousine, which whisked

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Speaker 1: him to his suite at the Carlisle on Madison Avenue.

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Speaker 1: Hours later, a police motorcade accompanied Kennedy south to the

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Speaker 1: Waldorf Astoria. Outside the hotel, more than three thousand people

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Speaker 1: jammed Park Avenue to greet the new leader of the

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Speaker 1: Free world. It was Press Week in New York, an

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Speaker 1: annual gathering of more than twelve hundred editors, publishers, and

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Speaker 1: newspaper executives. President Kennedy had come to the Waldorf that

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Speaker 1: evening to address the American Newspaper Publishers Association. His appearance

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Speaker 1: was especially newsworthy. One week earlier, US backed forces had

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Speaker 1: flown the white flag in Cuba. The Bay of Pigs

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Speaker 1: invasion may have failed to topple the communist government of

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Speaker 1: Fidel Castro, but it did succeed in escalating the Cold War,

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Speaker 1: a major foreign policy blunder. Just months into Kennedy's term,

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Speaker 1: Dressed in white tie, Kennedy approached the lectern in the

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Speaker 1: Waldorf's dazzling Grand ballroom. His speech was titled The President

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Speaker 1: and the Press.

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Speaker 2: Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded

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Speaker 2: the President versus the Press, but those are not my

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Speaker 2: sentiments tonight.

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Speaker 1: Instead, Kennedy said he had a more sober topic to discuss.

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Speaker 2: But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every

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Speaker 2: newsman in the nation to re examine his own standards

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Speaker 2: and to recognize the nature of our country's peril.

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Speaker 3: In time of war.

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Speaker 2: The government and the press have customarily joined in an effort,

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Speaker 2: based largely on self discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to

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Speaker 2: the enemy. In times of clear and present danger. The

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Speaker 2: courts have held that even the privileged rights of the

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Speaker 2: First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

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Speaker 1: These were perilous times, as evidenced by the situation in Cuba.

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Speaker 1: War hadn't been declared, but Kennedy wanted the press to

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Speaker 1: act as if it had. He claimed America's enemies had

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Speaker 1: learned about covert preparations from simply reading the newspapers that

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Speaker 1: they'd been able to glean quote the size, the strength,

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Speaker 1: the location, and the nature of our forces and weapons,

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Speaker 1: and our plans and strategy for their use. He said

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Speaker 1: that in at least one instance, details about a secret

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Speaker 1: satellite mechanism had been published.

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Speaker 2: The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible,

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Speaker 2: and well meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare,

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Speaker 2: the undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in

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Speaker 2: the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests

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Speaker 2: of journalism and not the tests of national security. And

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Speaker 2: my question, deny it is whether additional tests should not

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Speaker 2: now be adopted. That question is for you alone to answer.

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Speaker 2: No public official should answer it for you. No governmental

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Speaker 2: plan should impose its restraints against Joe Will. But I

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Speaker 2: would be failing in my duty to the nation, in

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Speaker 2: considering all of the responsibilities that we now bail and

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Speaker 2: all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities,

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Speaker 2: if I did not command this problem to your attention

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Speaker 2: and urge its thoughtful consideration.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy ended his address by affirming his respect and admiration

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Speaker 1: for the Fourth Estate. He said he shared journalism's obligation

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Speaker 1: to inform the American people, to give them the facts

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Speaker 1: to spark debate He wasn't asking those in attendance to

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Speaker 1: support his administration. He understood their watchdog rule. He not

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Speaker 1: only accepted the accountability of newspapers, he welcomed it.

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Speaker 2: And so it is to the printing press, to the

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Speaker 2: recorder of man's deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the

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Speaker 2: courier of his news, that we look for strength and assistance,

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Speaker 2: confident that with your help, man will be what he

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Speaker 2: was born to be, free and independent.

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Speaker 1: The next day, Kennedy's remarks were front page headlines. The

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Speaker 1: New York Times declared, President urges press limit news that

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Speaker 1: helps reds. But there was something the Times story didn't mention.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy wasn't just speaking to America's journalists as their president.

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Speaker 1: He was speaking as someone who, at least for three

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Speaker 1: months in nineteen forty five, had been one of them.

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Speaker 1: Even if you were well versed in other aspects of

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Speaker 1: JFK's microscopically scrutinized life, you could be forgiven if you

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Speaker 1: were less familiar with this one, That is, if you

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Speaker 1: are familiar with it at all.

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Speaker 4: I was sixteen and JFK was assassinated.

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Speaker 1: That's Rob Reiner, the famous director Spinal Tap. Rob Reiner,

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Speaker 1: Princess Bride, Rob Reiner, A few good men, Rob Reiner,

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Speaker 1: and in the podcast space Who Killed JFK. Reiner His

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three show spent several weeks atop the Apple

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Speaker 1: Top podcast charts.

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Speaker 4: I had written a paper in high school about the

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Speaker 4: Cuban missile crisis, so I was focused on him as

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Speaker 4: a president. I knew, obviously a little bit about him

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Speaker 4: as a senator. I knew about PT One nine, and

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Speaker 4: we all knew about his heroics during the Second World War.

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Speaker 1: But even Rob Reiner wasn't dialed in on this chapter

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Speaker 1: of JFK's story.

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Speaker 4: As far as him being a journalist, I didn't really

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Speaker 4: know very much about that, and I'm hearing about it

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Speaker 4: essentially for the first time here.

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Speaker 1: It was a brief and relatively under the radar period

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Speaker 1: in JFK's life. At the same time, it had a

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Speaker 1: lasting impact on one of the most iconic presidents in

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Speaker 1: American history. Welcome to very special episodes and Iheart's original podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host Danish Schwartz, and this is JFK Is

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Speaker 1: Forgotten Summer in Journalism.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to very special episodes. I'm Jason English. She

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Speaker 5: is Danish Schwartz. He is Aaron Burnett, And on this

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Speaker 5: podcast we tell one great story each week, and I'm

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Speaker 5: going to start here.

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Speaker 6: I love a good prequel.

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Speaker 5: Better call Saul Wicked the Muppet Babies. Just give me

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Speaker 5: the back story.

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Speaker 1: The Muppet Babies. Did you see Solo? That's the real

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Speaker 1: test of whether you like a prequel.

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Speaker 6: I did see that one, and that is a real test.

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Speaker 5: So on the topic of presidential jobs by Osmosis, we've

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Speaker 5: heard these stories over the years. Barack Obama worked at

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Speaker 5: Baskin Robbins and Ron Reagan, Joe Biden, they were lifeguards.

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Speaker 5: Grover Cleveland was a hangman. I don't know if you

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Speaker 5: guys knew that. He's carried out at least two executions.

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Speaker 1: Did not know Grover Cleveland.

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Speaker 5: The Grover Cleveland. Richard Nixon got to get him in here.

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Speaker 5: He worked at the Family gas station, naturally, and LBJ

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Speaker 5: owned the Muzak distribution rights. He was in the radio

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Speaker 5: business with his wife and they owned Muzak rights and in.

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Speaker 6: The Austin area.

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Speaker 5: I don't think any of those stories are going to

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Speaker 5: be worthy of very special episodes.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, the hangman one sounds kind of interesting.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Hangman and Musach are both interesting angles.

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Speaker 5: It's a little dark. I'm talking about the muzak one.

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Speaker 5: But jfk is a journalist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it because I actually started as a journalist.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's right.

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Speaker 1: It is my prequel. Jason knew me when.

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Speaker 5: I'm looking forward to your presidential run as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be the one to set things right.

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Speaker 6: He already got my vote though.

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Speaker 1: For John Fitzgerald Kennedy, the seeds of service were planted

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Speaker 1: at a young age.

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Speaker 7: It's often said that he was born into a rich family.

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Speaker 7: That's not exactly true.

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Speaker 1: Fred Logoval is one of Kennedy's by biographers.

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Speaker 7: His father, Joe Sr. Became extraordinarily wealthy. Let's say the

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Speaker 7: first ten years of Jack's life is really when he

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Speaker 7: makes his fortune. You know what's notable about this family,

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Speaker 7: of course, is that he and his wife Rose instill

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Speaker 7: in their children, all of them, really, this idea that

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Speaker 7: they need to think beyond themselves, They need to give

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Speaker 7: something back, They need to commit themselves at least a

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Speaker 7: little bit to public service. And I think that's something

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Speaker 7: that Jack takes in.

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Speaker 1: After graduating from Harvard in nineteen forty, Jack had his

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Speaker 1: eye on law school. His plans changed when the United States'

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Speaker 1: entry into World War Two seemed inevitable. Jack and his

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Speaker 1: older brother, Joseph Kennedy Junior, enlisted in the US Naval Reserve.

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Speaker 7: Both brothers want to serve in the war. They both

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Speaker 7: want to see combat, which is an interesting decision on

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Speaker 7: their port beca as you say, they could have avoided this,

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Speaker 7: but they both serve and of course get into harm's

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Speaker 7: way before too long. And in Jack's case, that becomes

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Speaker 7: as a commander of a pet boat.

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Speaker 1: PT boats were small, fast, and heavily armed. Jack's was

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Speaker 1: the eighty foot PT one oh nine, part of a

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Speaker 1: fleet in the Pacific theater. As US forces battled the Japanese,

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Speaker 1: the twenty six year old lieutenant commanded his vessel through

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Speaker 1: the waters of the Solomon Islands. In terms of combat assignments,

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Speaker 1: it didn't get much riskier. At the same time, the

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Speaker 1: mission suited Jack. He had practically grown up on the

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Speaker 1: sea during summers at the Kennedy Compound, sailing Nantucket Sound

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Speaker 1: off the coast of Hyanna's Port. Still, no amount of

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Speaker 1: nautical expertise could have prepared him for the danger he

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Speaker 1: would face in the wei hours of August second, nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty three.

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Speaker 7: It was a moonless night. They're in the Beckett Straight

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Speaker 7: in the Solomons. PT boats are patrolling looking for Japanese vessels.

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Speaker 7: Some of the PT boats had radar. Lieutenant Kennedy's did

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Speaker 7: not have radar, which really limited what he was able

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Speaker 7: to perceive on this very dark night. And what happens

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Speaker 7: is he does not see that a Japanese destroyer is

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Speaker 7: bearing down on them.

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Speaker 1: The Japanese warship slammed into Jack's boat, slicing it in half.

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Speaker 1: The PT one nine didn't stand a chance. That might

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Speaker 1: have been the end of John F. Kennedy right then

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Speaker 1: and there. No Congress, no Jack ee O, no White House,

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Speaker 1: no Bay of Pigs, no Cuban missile crisis, no Lee

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Speaker 1: Harvey Oswald, no JFK airports.

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Speaker 4: These are the events that change history. He knew what

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Speaker 4: war was. I mean, obviously Eisenhower did. But here was

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Speaker 4: a man who really was in the midst of the

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Speaker 4: horrors of war.

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Speaker 1: Miraculously, Jack survived, so did most of his crew. They

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Speaker 1: could see a small island in the distance. Now all

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Speaker 1: they had to do was swim to safety. Jack had

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Speaker 1: as good a chance of making it as any. A

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Speaker 1: few years earlier, he'd competed on the Harvard swim team.

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Speaker 1: He just hadn't ever trained for a long distance swim

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Speaker 1: through shark infested enemy waters with a wounded comrade in tow.

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Speaker 7: He drags this injured member of his crew for these

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Speaker 7: three and a half four hours, so he has to

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Speaker 7: not just swim for himself, but for his comrade. And

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Speaker 7: they make it to this island, and then they have

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Speaker 7: to figure out what to do from there. The whole

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Speaker 7: time there's the possibility, of course, that Japanese will spot them. Ultimately,

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Speaker 7: they are restored.

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Speaker 1: On August twentieth, a front page New York Times headline

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Speaker 1: claimed Kennedy's son is hero in Pacific. In his book JFK.

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Speaker 1: Coming of Age in the American Century, Fred Logowl describes

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Speaker 1: the episode as a pivotal moment.

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Speaker 7: His World War two experience, and especially his experience in

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Speaker 7: the Pacific, has a very important effect on young Jack Kennedy.

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Speaker 7: I think it boosts his belief that he belongs, that

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Speaker 7: he can make decisions, that he can be a leader.

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Speaker 7: So it's a real shot in terms of his self

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Speaker 7: confidence and his self belief. I also think it shapes

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Speaker 7: his worldview, his belief that coming out of this war,

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Speaker 7: the United States needs to play a primary role in

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Speaker 7: world affairs. It affects how he sees the world, how

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Speaker 7: he sees the US role in that world. That, I think,

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Speaker 7: in a way will stay with him till the end

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Speaker 7: of his days.

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Speaker 1: One year after Jack's near death experience in the Pacific,

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Speaker 1: his older volunteered for a highly perilous operation. Joe Junior's

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Speaker 1: orders were to fly a plane packed with explosives towards

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Speaker 1: France and then jump out with the parachute. He didn't

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Speaker 1: make it.

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Speaker 7: It's what kind of suicide mission? Really? The plane will

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Speaker 7: continue well, it explodes before they can bail.

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Speaker 1: Joe Junior's death was almost too much to bear for

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Speaker 1: his father, a former SEC chairman who'd served as the

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Speaker 1: US ambassador to the United Kingdom earlier in the war.

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Speaker 1: The Boston Globe reported quote from the time the family

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Speaker 1: received the Navy telegram, the ex ambassador has kept to

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Speaker 1: his room. His grief is deep. Joe Junior had been

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Speaker 1: the golden child and heir apparent of a proud political lineage.

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Speaker 1: From a young age, his father had been grooming him

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Speaker 1: for greatness. Now Joe's goal of becoming America's first Catholic

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Speaker 1: president had been cut tragically short.

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Speaker 4: You had Joe Kennedy, who always wanted the family to

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Speaker 4: be considered legitimate and to be accepted in the political world.

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Speaker 4: I don't think Jack thought of himself for somebody who

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Speaker 4: was going to take up that mantle. I think he

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Speaker 4: always thought his older brother was going to be the one.

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Speaker 1: It was a devastating turn of events for the family.

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Speaker 1: It also had major implications for the Kennedy clan's second

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Speaker 1: oldest son, because the family's hopes and dreams didn't just

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Speaker 1: die with Joe Junior. Rather, they were transferred onto Jack.

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Speaker 1: Following his exploits in the Pacific, Jack sought treatment for

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Speaker 1: chronic back pain that had ailed him for years. He

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Speaker 1: ended up up having surgery, which officially put an end

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Speaker 1: to his military career. On March first, nineteen forty five,

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Kennedy was honorably discharged, his future laid out before him.

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Speaker 1: Still mourning the death of his brother, Jack found himself

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Speaker 1: at a crossroads. He emerged from his Navy service a

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Speaker 1: household name, the torchbearer of his family's political ambitions. Politics

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Speaker 1: was in his blood. In addition, to the roles his

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Speaker 1: father had played in government. Jack's maternal grandfather had been

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Speaker 1: a mayor of Boston and a US congressman. His paternal

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Speaker 1: grandfather had been a state senator. Both of his great

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Speaker 1: uncles were state senators, and his father's first cousin was

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Speaker 1: once the mayor of Brockton, Massachusetts. But in that spring

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Speaker 1: of nineteen forty five, as the war entered its final inning,

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Speaker 1: Jack had a lot to consider.

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Speaker 7: He could go to law school, which he has flirted with,

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Speaker 7: not because he has a particular interest in the law,

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Speaker 7: but because it's a career step for somebody who doesn't

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Speaker 7: maybe quite know what they want to do. He's interested

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Speaker 7: in journalism, and I think he is thinking about politics.

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Speaker 1: Jack was already an accomplished writer. Senior year at Harvard,

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Speaker 1: he wrote a thesis exploring British appeasement in the run

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Speaker 1: up to World War Two. Joe Senior encouraged his son

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Speaker 1: to publish it. To make the work commercially viable, they

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Speaker 1: enlisted Joe's friend Arthur Kroc, the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington

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Speaker 1: correspondent for The New York Times. In his memoirs, Kroc

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Speaker 1: would write of Jack's thesis quote, it was remarkable for

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Speaker 1: the fine perception of the fundamental problems of a peace

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Speaker 1: loving democracy threatened with dictatorial regimes. Kroc helped Jack turn

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Speaker 1: the thesis into a book called Why England Slept, with

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Speaker 1: a forward from Henry Luce, the founder of Time magazine.

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Speaker 1: It became a best seller, and the book's thesis persuaded

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Speaker 1: Krock that Jack was quote suited to a career in journalism.

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Speaker 1: Five years later, as Jack wade career options, Joe Senior

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Speaker 1: got in touch with his old pal William Randolph Hurst.

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Speaker 7: He had known. Joe Senior had known Hurst from his

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Speaker 7: days as a Hollywood mogul in the nineteen twenties. Late

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Speaker 7: nineteen twenties, Joe Kennedy became a serious player in Hollywood,

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Speaker 7: made a good deal of money in Hollywood. Got to

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Speaker 7: know Hurst at that point, partly through Mariam Davies, and

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Speaker 7: in the nineteen thirties, Joe Kennedy convinced Hurst to back

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Speaker 7: Fdr for reelection in nineteen thirty six. So they have

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Speaker 7: these connections.

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Speaker 1: Joe Senior helped Jack get a gig as a syndicated

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Speaker 1: special correspondent for the Hearst Newspapers, which included the San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Examiner, the Chicago Herald American, and the New York

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Speaker 1: Journal American. The idea was that Jack would cover the

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Speaker 1: unfolding post war order from a quote serviceman's point of view.

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Speaker 1: Hearst got to splash his papers with the byline of

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Speaker 1: best selling author John F. Kennedy, identified at the top

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Speaker 1: of each article as a quote. Recently retired p boat

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Speaker 1: hero and son of former Ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy, Jack

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Speaker 1: got to test the journalistic waters while elevating his profile

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Speaker 1: in a way that could prove advantageous to a future

297
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Speaker 1: in politics. His first assignment was a banger. At the

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Speaker 1: end of April nineteen forty five, Hurst sent him to

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Speaker 1: San Francisco to cover the founding Conference of the United Nations.

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Speaker 1: Jack suddenly found himself at the the center of international policymaking,

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Speaker 1: breathing the same air as illustrious statesman.

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Speaker 8: Delegates representing forty six nations came to San Francisco on

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Speaker 8: April twenty fifth, nineteen forty five, representing almost two thousand

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Speaker 8: million people, more than eighty percent of humanity, all at war.

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Speaker 8: When the conference was begun. They came with hope born

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Speaker 8: of common struggle.

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Speaker 1: If you were a cub reporter like Jack Kennedy, this

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Speaker 1: was the place to be. Kennedy joined twelve hundred accredited

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Speaker 1: journalists from established scribes like James Rustin, Walter Lippman, and

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Speaker 1: the Kennedy's friend Arthur Krock, two gossips like Walter Winschell,

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Speaker 1: Earl Wilson, and Peta Hopper. Describing the media spectacle, Life

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Speaker 1: Magazine observed a quote like Pilgrim's drawn to Mecca. The

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Speaker 1: nation's newspapermen flocked to San Francisco. They were all there,

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Speaker 1: the whys and the witless, the sober and the silly,

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Speaker 1: the pundits, pontificators, and performing seals. The goal of the

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Speaker 1: conference was to create a template for global diplomacy in

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Speaker 1: the interest of preventing future wars. In his first dispatch

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Speaker 1: on April twenty eighth, Kennedy warned readers not to get

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Speaker 1: their hopes up.

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Speaker 9: There is an impression that this is the conference to

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Speaker 9: end wars and introduce peace on Earth and goodwill toward nations, excluding,

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Speaker 9: of course, Germany and Japan. Well, it's not going to

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Speaker 9: do that.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's debut also included a man on the Street interview

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Speaker 1: with a decorated marine who told him quote, I don't

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Speaker 1: know much about what's going on, but if they just

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Speaker 1: fix it so that we don't have to fight anymore,

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Speaker 1: they can count me in. Kennedy replied, me too, Sarge.

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Speaker 1: In the evenings, Kennedy swanned about San Francisco with the elite. Kroc,

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Speaker 1: writing in his memoirs years later, painted some memorable scenes

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Speaker 1: of the humble Hurst correspondent cutting in on a dance

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Speaker 1: with the British Foreign Secretary's wife on his bed at

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Speaker 1: the Palace Hotel, with a high ball in one hand

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Speaker 1: and a telephone receiver in the other.

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Speaker 9: Hello there, Yeah, I want to speak to the managing

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Speaker 9: editor of the Chicago Herald Examiner. Not in. We'll put

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Speaker 9: somebody on to take a message. Cook. Will you see

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Speaker 9: that the boss gets this message as soon as you

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Speaker 9: can reach him. Thank you. Here's the message. Kennedy will

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Speaker 9: not be filing tonight.

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Speaker 1: Tempting as it may have been, Kennedy wasn't there to party.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of a month, he wrote sixteen columns

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Speaker 1: at about three hundred words apiece, exactly the most grueling

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Speaker 1: journalistic assignment, but well worth the rate Hurst was paying

345
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Speaker 1: him seven hundred and fifty dollars, which is about thirteen

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Speaker 1: thousand today, Plus it was exciting work. Kennedy basically had

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Speaker 1: a front row seat to history, reporting on the birth

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Speaker 1: of the UN as the Allies declared victory in Europe.

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Speaker 7: I mean, it's hard to overstate the symbolic importance of

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Speaker 7: the San Francisco Conference, Even if the sort of basics

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Speaker 7: of that world order have already been laid out at

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Speaker 7: prior conferences among the Allies, there's already a sense that

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Speaker 7: this is now going to be effectively a two power world.

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Speaker 7: The United States and the Soviet Union will be the

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Speaker 7: key players, and the young reporter Jack Kennedy, his stories

356
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Speaker 7: filed from San Francisco are so fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy's stories weren't exactly straight news, and his point of

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Speaker 1: view wasn't just that of a serviceman, but someone who

359
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Speaker 1: had his own ideas about world affairs.

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Speaker 9: May first, this conference from a distance may have appeared

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Speaker 9: so far like an international football game. Well, that part's

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Speaker 9: over and they are scheduled tomorrow to get at the

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Speaker 9: real work of the conference. This will consist of trying

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Speaker 9: to solve a number of more or less technical problems

365
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Speaker 9: upon how these dull problems are settled may depend our

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Speaker 9: peace in the upcoming years. May sixteenth, The Russians have

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Speaker 9: recognized our difficult position and have taken full advantage of it.

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Speaker 9: They have attempted to embarrass Us and the British at

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Speaker 9: every turn. May eighteenth, there is growing discouragement among people

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Speaker 9: concerning our chances of winning any lasting peace from this war.

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Speaker 9: There is talk of fighting the Russians in the next

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Speaker 9: ten or fifteen years. We have indeed gone a long

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Speaker 9: way since those hopeful days early in the war when

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Speaker 9: we talked of union. Now in one world there is

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Speaker 9: a fundamental distrust between Great Britain and the United States

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Speaker 9: on the one hand, and Russia on the other.

377
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Speaker 1: The growing distrust between Russia and the US was a

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Speaker 1: running theme of Kennedy's reportage.

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Speaker 7: Kennedy picks up on this. He's as quick as anybody else,

380
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Speaker 7: I would argue, at least in terms of the reporting

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Speaker 7: at the conference, to see how these two players were

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Speaker 7: going to be the most important players, number one and

383
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Speaker 7: number two, how they were destined to come into conflict.

384
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Speaker 7: There's a realism in his articles. These pieces stand up

385
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Speaker 7: pretty well. If one were to go back now and

386
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Speaker 7: read all of them. They're solid in the context of

387
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Speaker 7: their time. I would say they're even solid in terms

388
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Speaker 7: of what he saw, maybe at least to a degree

389
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Speaker 7: before others did, about this new world order.

390
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Speaker 1: The San Francisco Conference carried on until June twenty six,

391
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Speaker 1: when the assembled delegates signed the historic Charter of the

392
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Speaker 1: United Nations. By then, Kennedy was gone. Another story had beckoned,

393
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Speaker 1: this time across the ocean. Kennedy hadn't been to Europe

394
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Speaker 1: since nineteen thirty nine. He had visited Germany right before

395
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Speaker 1: the invasion of Poland, then he had traveled to London.

396
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Speaker 1: On September third, nineteen thirty nine, Kennedy observed Britain's declaration

397
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Speaker 1: of war in the House of Commons, where soon to

398
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Speaker 1: be Prime Minister Winston Churchill declared, we are fighting to

399
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Speaker 1: save the whole world from the pestilence of Nazi tyranny

400
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Speaker 1: and in defense of all that is most sacred to man.

401
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Speaker 1: Nearly six years later, the Allies had won that fight

402
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Speaker 1: and Churchill was up for reelection. The conventional wisdom held

403
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Speaker 1: that Churchill's wartime leadership would make him a shoe in,

404
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: but one journalist was and so sure In fact, this journalist,

405
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: a fresh faced correspondent for the Hearst Papers, had a

406
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: hunch that the Prime Minister's days were numbered. In June

407
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, Kennedy flew to London and checked into

408
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Speaker 1: a two room suite at the Grovenor House Hotel. It

409
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: was Jack's first international assignment, and he'd gotten business cards

410
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: with his Hearst affiliation, John Fitzgerald Kennedy International News Service.

411
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: A letter to the US Consul General from the manager

412
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Speaker 1: of the news service made it official. This is to

413
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: certify that mister John F. Kennedy is on special assignment

414
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: in Europe for Hearst Newspapers. The British elections were scheduled

415
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Speaker 1: for July fifth. Kennedy arrived just in time for the

416
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Speaker 1: frenzied home stretch of the campaigns.

417
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Speaker 7: He's fascinated by electoral politics in a democratic system. Again,

418
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Speaker 7: He's grown up experiencing this with his grandfather, Honey fitz

419
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 7: a legendary Boston politician. He has followed elections, you know,

420
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 7: as a student. Now he's seeing it up close, and

421
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 7: I think it absolutely inclines him more as much as

422
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Speaker 7: he's enjoying I think the reporting gig to seek out

423
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Speaker 7: political possibilities for himself.

424
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Speaker 1: Churchill seemed to have the upper hand. At least of

425
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: his high approval ratings were any indication. Speaking at a

426
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Speaker 1: campaign stop where thousands of cheering supporters lined the streets,

427
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister said, this election is one of great

428
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Speaker 1: importance because it comes at a moment when the future

429
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: of our country is at stake. Around the same time,

430
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: Kennedy filed his latest story lines that appeared with the

431
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: article in various Hurst publications sounded ominous. Churchill's defeat possible

432
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Speaker 1: in new tide sweeping Europe. Labor rights may defeat Churchill,

433
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: says writer. Churchill may lose election. Here's Kennedy in his

434
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Speaker 1: own words.

435
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Speaker 9: This may come as a surprise to most Americans, who

436
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 9: feel Churchill is as indomitable at the polls as he

437
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 9: was in the war. However, Churchill is fighting a tide

438
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 9: that is surging through Europe, washing away monarchies and conservative

439
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 9: governments everywhere, and that tide flows powerfully in England. England

440
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 9: is moving towards some form of socialism. If not in

441
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 9: this election, then then surely at the next.

442
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: Kennedy's article turned out to be precient. On July twenty sixth,

443
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: after all the votes were finally counted, the Labor Party

444
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: beat Churchill's Conservative government in a landslide. Croc later said

445
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: that Kennedy's writings were quote the only intimation I got

446
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: from anyone that Churchill would be defeated.

447
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 7: Even in one or two of his pieces from San Francisco,

448
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 7: he suggests that the Conservatives are in some trouble, which

449
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 7: too many people seems absolutely crazy. Churchill in trouble politically,

450
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 7: how can that be? He's one of the great leaders

451
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 7: of the twentieth century. I think people already understood. Kennedy

452
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 7: even before he gets to London, says that this is

453
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 7: a possibility. What he then proceeds to do in the

454
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 7: weeks prior to the vote is to follow the campaign,

455
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 7: and he shows a reporter's nos for a good story.

456
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: On the heels of Churchill's defeat, Kennedy wrote.

457
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 9: England has been hit by some blockbusters in the last

458
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 9: five years, but none of them have a shoko like

459
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 9: today's election results. Explanations for the crushing defeat we're already forthcoming,

460
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 9: and they will be pouring in for the next few weeks.

461
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: It was one of his last dispatches from the United Kingdom,

462
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: but Kennedy still had a few more stops on his

463
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: tour as a correspondent for Hurst. From England, he traveled

464
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: to Paris and then on to Germany. That's where the US,

465
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, and Great Britain were hashing out a

466
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: plan for post war Europe at the Potsdam Conference. The

467
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: historical record is a bit fuzzy as to whether Kennedy

468
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: actually filed any stories from this last leg of the trip.

469
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: It seems like he probably didn't. He did, however, keep

470
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: a diary. You can buy a reprint of it for

471
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: under ten bucks. It's called Prelude to Leadership, The European

472
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: Diary of John F. Kennedy. The diary reflects on the

473
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: utter destruction in places like Berlin.

474
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 9: The devastation is The streets are relatively clear, but there

475
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 9: is not a single building which is not gutted. On

476
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 9: some of the streets, the stench, sweet and sickish from

477
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 9: dead bodies is overwhelming. The people all have completely colorless faces,

478
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 9: a yellow tinge with pale tan lips. They were all

479
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 9: carrying bundles. Where are they going? No one seems to know.

480
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 9: I wonder whether they do.

481
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: In one entry, Kennedy describes a somber conversation with a

482
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: young German girl.

483
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 9: This girl is about twenty two, speaks some English, and

484
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 9: is a Roman Catholic. She said it was difficult to

485
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 9: get to Catholic church after the Nazis came to power,

486
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 9: though it was possible. She thought the Germans were going

487
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 9: to win the war, but the first victories were just shining.

488
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 9: She thought the future of Germany is melancholy.

489
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: The final entry is arguably the most chilling one. Kennedy

490
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: writes about his visit to Hitler's bombed out chalet in

491
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: the Bavarian Alps, as well as a nearby building.

492
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 9: After visiting these two places, you can clearly understand how

493
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 9: that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the

494
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 9: hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most

495
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 9: significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for

496
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 9: his country, which rendered him a menace to the peace

497
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 9: of the world. But he had a mystery about him

498
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 9: in the way that he lived, in the manner of

499
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 9: his death that will live and grow after it. He

500
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 9: had in him the stuff of which legends are made.

501
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: For the record. Kennedyologists who have written about this entry

502
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: have noted there's no indication that jfk harbored any sympathies

503
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: for the Fear or Nazi Germany.

504
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 7: What I take away from the diary is a sense

505
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 7: that the world order has fundamentally shifted. In part again,

506
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 7: is based on seeing the destruction all around him, his

507
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 7: awareness that Britain is a faded power, that Britain is

508
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 7: emerging drastically weakened from the war. Now he's seeing that

509
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 7: Germany is destroyed coming out of the war. He understands

510
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 7: that there's going to be a division of Germany. What's

511
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 7: the strength in his analysis is the degree to which

512
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 7: he perceives that this division between East and West, the

513
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 7: United States the leader of one camp, if you will,

514
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 7: and the Soviet Union the leader and the other. That

515
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 7: I think is affirmed for him in these weeks in Germany,

516
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 7: and again I repeat because I think it matters a

517
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 7: conviction that he has, which is that the United States

518
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 7: must become the leader of the West going forward.

519
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: In addition of the diary published in nineteen ninety five, include

520
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 1: an introduction by Hugh Sidney, who covered Kennedy's presidency for Time.

521
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: He writes, quote Kennedy shows in his diary that he

522
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: has the instincts of a good journalist, the unflagging curiosity,

523
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: the eyes, the ears. Others in Kennedy's orbit have described

524
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: that spring and summer of nineteen forty five as a

525
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: key step in his political evolution. Close friend and speech

526
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: writer Ted Sorenson wrote in his own JFK biography quote

527
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: in a brief fling at journalism, he had observed the

528
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: power politics at Potsdam and the San Francisco UN Conference,

529
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: and covered the British election. All this sharpened his interest

530
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: in public affairs and public service. Two of JFK's White

531
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: House aides said he considered his journalistic dalliances quote the

532
00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: thing that finally moved Jack Kennedy toward active politics. Having

533
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: a close look as a reporter at the post war

534
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: political leaders in action, he decided that he might be

535
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: able to find more satisfaction and to perform more useful

536
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: service as a politician than as a political writer. Kennedy

537
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: left Europe in early August as the war was hurtling

538
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: toward its catastrophic conclusion in Japan. By the end of

539
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: the year, he had made the decision to run for

540
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: office in April nineteen forty six, he officially entered the

541
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: race to represent his home state's eleventh congressional district. And

542
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: while the rest is history.

543
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 7: Nobody thought of this at the time, but present in

544
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 7: Potsdam are the thirty third President of the United States,

545
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 7: Harry Truman, the thirty fourth President of the United States

546
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 7: Dwight Eisenhower, and the thirty fifth President of the United States,

547
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 7: young Jack Kennedy.

548
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 4: He was the youngest president ever to be elected. I

549
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 4: was only a teenager, but he felt like one of us.

550
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 4: But here was a guy, he was forty three at

551
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 4: the time, and we thought, Wow, this is somebody that's

552
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 4: almost in our generation, somebody who we actually can look

553
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: up to and respect. And he was funny, he had

554
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 4: a quick wit. That guy can be a president. That

555
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 4: was really cool to us. He was a hero to

556
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 4: our generation.

557
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: One day in nineteen sixty, when Kennedy was running for president,

558
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: he sat down to dictate some notes. He would do

559
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: this from time to time, preparing for the memoirs he

560
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 1: expected to write. On this particular occasion, Kennedy reflected on

561
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: his trajectory from pt boat captain to candidate for America's

562
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: highest office.

563
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 3: My brother Joe was killed in Europe as a fire

564
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: in August nineteen forty four, and that ended our hopes

565
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: for him.

566
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 10: But I didn't even.

567
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 3: Start to think about a political profess more than a

568
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: year later. When the war came. I didn't know what

569
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 3: I was going to do, and I didn't find it

570
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: oppressive that I didn't know. Forty four and forty five,

571
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: I had been in the hospital for about a year,

572
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: recovering from some injuries I received in the Pacific, and

573
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: I worked as a reporter covering the San Francisco Conference,

574
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 3: the British election, and the Potsdam meeting tall in nineteen

575
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 3: forty five.

576
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: A few beats later. In the recording, which you can

577
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: find online at the website of UVa's Miller Center, Kennedy

578
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: explains why journalism didn't captivate him the way politics ultimately did.

579
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 3: A reporter is reporting what happens. He's not making it

580
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: happen underline, making underline reporter. Even the good reporters, the

581
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 3: ones who are really fascinated by what happens and who

582
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 3: find real stickless putting their noses into the center of

583
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: even they in a sense are in a secondary profession.

584
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 3: It's reporting what happened coma, but it isn't participating.

585
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: By all accounts, JFK would have made a fine journalist,

586
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: and if fate hadn't intervened, maybe that's exactly what he

587
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: would have ended up being.

588
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 7: Let's suppose that Joe Junior survives. He was seen by

589
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 7: his father and others as the one who would enter politics.

590
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 7: So he does so, let's say, and let's say he

591
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 7: rises to the talk or near the talk. I actually

592
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 7: suggest that there are reasons why Joe Kennedy Junior would

593
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 7: not have been as successful as his brother was in politics.

594
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 7: But let's assume that he would have been. I think

595
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 7: Jack Kennedy probably would have pursued, at least in the

596
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 7: early going, a journalistic career, and I think he would

597
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 7: have been successful at it. It's not impossible to imagine

598
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 7: that he stays with that career, that he becomes a

599
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 7: kind of Walter Lippman for a later generation. And because

600
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 7: of his skill as an observer, because of his intelligence,

601
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 7: because of his ability to write pretty well and pretty quickly,

602
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 7: which is important in journalism, a very little reason to

603
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 7: believe that he would have not been highly successful in

604
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 7: that capacity. It's a fascinating scenario.

605
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 4: He had a curious mind and he had a great

606
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 4: way of expressing himself. Would he have made a great journalist,

607
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 4: Of course he would.

608
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 5: So this should be a movie. This one a little

609
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 5: added cinematic flair because the great director Rob Reiner gave

610
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 5: us a nice cameo. Here, zaren, have you put your

611
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 5: casting director hat on?

612
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 10: I did, and in the spirit of Rob Reinder, I

613
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 10: thought a lot about this.

614
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 6: I wanted to get the casting right.

615
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 10: He's really good at casting, so I thought, Okay, I

616
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 10: give this one up for Rob, so for casting for

617
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 10: young JFK the guy, the kid looks like him. So

618
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,959
Speaker 10: this one was easy. That kid Finn Wolfhart from Stranger Things.

619
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 10: I mean, he's got the floppy hair.

620
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: Do you think he looks like JFK?

621
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 10: Out of all the young actors I was looking at,

622
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 10: he was the closest appearance. Right Tony Goldwyn, the guy

623
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 10: from Law and Order and from Scandal, he looks the

624
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 10: most like a Kennedy. But I think he's too old

625
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 10: now to play young Jack. So I was looking for

626
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 10: a young Jack.

627
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm gonna give you a crazy pitch,

628
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: what young solo himself?

629
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 6: Whoa that's back?

630
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 3: Yes?

631
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 6: Bring him back good jawline poll too Okay.

632
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 10: Now for Joe Kennedy Senior, for the Father, I thought

633
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 10: Tim Blake Nelson Delmar from O Brother, Where art thou?

634
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 10: He looks like Joe Kennedy Senior. I looked up Joe

635
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 10: Kennedy Senior. I'm like, oh, that's that's a done deal,

636
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 10: Tim Blake Nelson. And then for like William Randolph Hurst,

637
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 10: I thought this one. I was like, okay, once again,

638
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 10: looked at the man difficult face because he has a

639
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 10: kind of like, you know, like that Time Traveler pre

640
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 10: iPhone face. You're like, okay, who am I to get?

641
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 10: Edward Horton was as close as I could get, being

642
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 10: like boom. I think he's got the acting chops. He

643
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 10: can do the gravitas. And then for Winston Churchill, this

644
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 10: was a surprise Patton Oswalden a play for an Oscar.

645
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 7: Wow, whoa.

646
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: I love when a comedian goes serious, right, I thought

647
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: that could be fun because Toby Jones was the other one,

648
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: the British actor, but he's already played him, so that

649
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: was like, okay, that's too easy. Yeah, British people always

650
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: get mad when Americans play Winston Churchill because of the crown.

651
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: It was John Letgow, John Lithgow, and they got mad.

652
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 1: But he did a great job.

653
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 10: So you know, I did not see that though, John Lithgow,

654
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Speaker 10: that's an interesting choice.

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Speaker 6: He seems like too tall.

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Speaker 1: He was great. Yeah, so I think we can give

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Speaker 1: it to another American.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I like that call.

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Speaker 5: And John Lithgow, quick aside, will be playing buzz Aldrin

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Speaker 5: and an upcoming podcast that launches I think it's July ninth.

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Speaker 6: Really, yeah, fighting buzz Aldrin, my man.

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Speaker 5: Your guy. Maybe we put Rob Reiner in this as

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Speaker 5: kind of the narrator. He can be like the Peter

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Speaker 5: falk roll from Yeah where that fits into the narrative.

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Speaker 5: But let's working.

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Speaker 1: Then he plays the newspaperman who assigned JFK. A It's

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Speaker 1: a non historical character, but just the scrappy newspaper man

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Speaker 1: who's a mentor to JFK in the movie version.

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Speaker 6: So that's good, good call, good screenwriting.

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Speaker 10: I love to think that one thing about this story

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Speaker 10: is it's a perfect reminder that a great truth of leadership,

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Speaker 10: the secret to being a great leader is be a

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Speaker 10: great storyteller, you know what I mean, Like, think about

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Speaker 10: all of our great American presidents. They're almost all great storytellers.

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Speaker 5: So if JFK the journalist was coming up today, what

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Speaker 5: would be your advice It start a sub stack focus

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Speaker 5: on social.

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Speaker 6: Wow, that's tough one.

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Speaker 1: I would say you, Oh, you have family, money, great,

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Speaker 1: You'll be just fine.

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Speaker 5: Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people.

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Speaker 5: Today's episode was written by Joe Pompeo. Joe is one

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Speaker 5: of our regulars. You can find out what else he's

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Speaker 5: up to at Joe Pompeo dot net. This show is

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Speaker 5: hosted by Dana Schwartz, Zaren Burnett, and Jason English. Our

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Speaker 5: producer is Josh Fisher. Editing and sound design by Jonathan

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Speaker 5: Washington and Josh Fisher. Additional editing by Mary Doo, fixing

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Speaker 5: and mastering by Josh Fisher. A big thanks to our

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Speaker 5: JFK voice actor, Tom anton Ellis. It's very hard to

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Speaker 5: do reenactments in an episode that also includes archival audio

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Speaker 5: of the guy you are re enacting, but I thought

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Speaker 5: Tom nailed it. Great to work with him again, And

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Speaker 5: of course big thanks to Rob Reiner for agreeing to

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Speaker 5: talk to us po see Spinal Tap two in theaters

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Speaker 5: this September. Thanks to Roco at Rob's Company for helping

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Speaker 5: coordinate original music by Alis McCoy, research in fact checking

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Speaker 5: by Austin Thompson and Joe Pompeo. Show logo by Lucy Kintonia.

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Speaker 5: Our executive producer is Jason English. If you ever want

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Speaker 5: to email the show, you can reach us a Very

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Speaker 5: Special Episodes at gmail dot com. Very Special Episodes is

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Speaker 5: a production of iHeart Podcasts m