1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue here is investment in marginalized communities. 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: Want to deconstructive package and cherry pick what they like 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: what they don't like. China is surgeon powered with major investments. 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound On the insiders, the influencers, the insns Siding 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: has commented again and again he will unite the country. 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: Who the big Biden has to watch in terms of 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: moderate defectors infratrostructure has always Bombard part of Bloomberg sound 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: On on Bloomberg Radio. The Senate was back in session 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: today and many of the President's top priorities are coming 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: up for consideration in the coming days in Congress, including infrastructure. 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: But the President and the GOP remained really far apart 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: on that, which maybe what is prompting both the President 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: and the Vice President to lead the infrastructure summer in 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: DC and go overseas. We're gonna talk about that and 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: much more coming up on sound On. Will also check 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: in with former Congressman Mike Rogers. But first let's get 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: a quick check on the market. Switch Charlie Tick Indeed, 19 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: lots going on Jenny Happy Monday, to you. Stitch Fix 20 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: shares surging post market trading after the company that recommends 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: and selves clothes online projected fiscal fourth quarter revenue that 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: top to analysts expectations. Shares right now there are up 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: by fifteen percent after our stitch Fix space in San Francisco. 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: Big day for Biogen shares surged after its controversial Alzheimer's 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: disease therapy was approved by regulators, a landmark decision that 26 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: stands to dramatically change treatment for the debilitating brain condition. 27 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: Biogen shares did rally to day, up by thirty eight 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: point three percent. Tessel shares shrugged off disappointment from a 29 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: decision to drop a longer range version of its high 30 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: performance Modelisque sedan. At one point, Tesla was down two 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: point seven percent, but it did rally late in the 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: day final art trading, we actually saw a game today 33 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: for Tesla, up by one percent. Most equities declined, Treasury 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: yields roses investors weigh inflation risks and the potential impact 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: of a minimum corporate tax SMP down three and dropped 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: there one tenth of one percent. The Doubt down one 37 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: six lore by four tenths. Nastack up sixty seven, a 38 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: gain of five tenths of one percent, ten Ure ye 39 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: old one point five six percent, gold at eighteen ninety 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: nine UNS and West Texas Enemyia Crew down six tenths 41 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: of one percent, sixty again recapping SMP down three, down 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: one tenth of one percent. I'm Charlie Pellett. That Jennie. 43 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: It's a Bloomberg Business Flash. Thank you, Charlie, and happy 44 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: Monday to you. I'm Jeanie Schanzano here with Bloomberg Politics 45 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: contributor Rick Davis and former New York Congressman and Democratic 46 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Caucus Chair Joe Crowley. So I bet Rick and Joe 47 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: you were both waiting to see what the Charleston Gazette 48 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: Mail had to publish in their op ed this weekend, 49 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: and it was probably, I'm guessing maybe one of the 50 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: most read I don't know in their history. It was 51 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: an op ed from Democratic Senator Joe Mansion of West Virginia, 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: who announced, I'm much to the dismay I'm sure of 53 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: many progressives, Democrats and the White House that he will 54 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: vote against the one of his party's signature Voting Bills 55 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: for the People Act, known as HR one. In his 56 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: op ed. He also said he would not take any 57 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: steps to weaken or remove the filibuster, and then, quoting here, 58 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: he said, the right to vote is fundamental to our 59 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: American democracy, and protecting that right should not be about 60 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: party or politics. Least of all, protecting this right, which 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: is a value I share, should never be done in 62 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: a partisan manner. He went on to say, I believe 63 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: that partisan voting legislation will destroy the already already weakening 64 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: binds of our democracy, and for that reason, I will 65 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: vote against the For the People Act. Furthermore, I will 66 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: not vote to weaken or eliminate the filibuster. And I'm suspecting, Rick, 67 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if you agree with me. This may 68 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: explain in part Harris and Biden fleeing the United States 69 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: this week for the South and Europe. But what what 70 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: was your view of Joe Mansion's open and what impact 71 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: it's going to have on both of these pieces of 72 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: legislation as Congress comes back to session this week. Well, 73 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure Joe Mansion ran the president out of town, 74 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: but oh, come on, Rick, But what I'm willing to 75 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: say that it is going to really have a significant 76 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: impact on the legislative agenda, probably more so on HR one, 77 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: the For the People Act as as a massive federal 78 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: act that gets into electioneering. And for those who don't know, 79 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: the federal government tends to not get into electioneering. And 80 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: so you know, run by the states. States usually have precedents. 81 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that was a result of 82 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: states rights many many years ago, and and and they 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: were allowed to run their own election. So we have 84 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: fifty different state election processes, and it's unusual that the 85 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: federal government gets too involved in in in that. And 86 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,239 Speaker 1: this is a pretty big intrusion into those states issues. 87 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: And and I think his unwillingness to use a uh 88 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: filibuster breaker to try to pass this bill is going 89 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: to consign it to the scrap heap of American legislation. 90 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: How that then affects other pieces of legislation, I think 91 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: you're still to be determined. But this is one where 92 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: with they were never going to get any Republican votes 93 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: on it, and so it was never considered a bipartisan 94 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: piece of legislation. So if they can't do it with 95 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: the fifty plus one, then they're not going to do 96 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: it at all. And and to your point, the federal 97 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: government has not gotten into voting legislation um to a 98 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: good extent. But he did express support for renewal of 99 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen Voting Rights Act, essentially this John Lewish bill, 100 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: which would give the federal government preclearance. He would like 101 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: to extend that to apply to all fifty states, um. 102 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: And that seems to have a much better chance in 103 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: my estimation of passage, although passage of anything at this 104 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: point is difficult. But but Joe Croby, what do you 105 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: make of both the Joe Mansion's op ed and also 106 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: the prospects for either one of these voting bills, which 107 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: are so important to Democrats and particularly progressive and to 108 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: their prospects in four we should add, well, Gee, I 109 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: don't think it's really a big surprise that Mention said 110 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: that he would not support the lifting of the filibuster um. 111 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: That's been very consistent coming from him. Um. As much 112 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: as that makes disappoint the progressives in the House or 113 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: the Senate, what I thought was interesting is that he 114 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: went further to say that he would not support for 115 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: the For the People Act um. Although as beuch As 116 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned, he's pulled the Jean Louis Act. It was 117 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: almost that that was really the news here. It wasn't 118 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: that he was going to support the maintenance of the filibuster. 119 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: But it does. It does put uh, you know, a 120 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, a bit of flying the ointment here for 121 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: the administration and frustrates I think prog Ross in the Hill. 122 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: We know that Sender Schumer's going to be putting forth 123 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: a number of bills in the Senate. Uh, with every 124 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: expectation they will fail, uh to further highlight the need 125 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: to build public pressure on the Senate to move on legislation, 126 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: as well as I think going to mention and others 127 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: to move on the filibuster. But uh, you know that's 128 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: still a whole older in my in my estimate, And Joe, 129 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: can I get you to react as a fellow New 130 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: Yorker um to this. Uh. I believe it was a 131 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: tweet from Representative Jones, a Democrat from New York, a 132 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: a liberal in the House, who said, quote mansions op 133 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: ed might as well be titled why I'll vote to 134 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: preserve Jim Crow. Very very tough words from Representative Jones. Well, 135 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of hype permally and 136 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: a lot of tough words by people of life from 137 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: all sides. So I'm not exactly shocked about that. I 138 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: do think it's important to point out that Joe Mansion 139 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: is probably the only person on planet Earth right now 140 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: who going to get elected as a Democrat in West Virginia. 141 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: The state is all the whelmingly Republican, all the whelmerling 142 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: supported President Trump. Uh, and so I think it's important 143 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: to note where he's coming from. UM. You know, I 144 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: too would like to see both these bills passed the Senate. UM. 145 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: But I also think it's a point to recognize the 146 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: politics here that if it's not Joe mentioned, if it 147 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: ain't Joe mention in that seat, I guarantee you it 148 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: is not unlove Democrat. That's that's absolutely right, And I 149 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: think that does give your point Joe Mansion a good 150 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: deal of cover, because electorally, he's got to be just 151 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: begging Democrats to come in and criticize him at this point. UM. 152 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: Another issue that is impacted by by Mansions editorial is 153 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: obviously infrastructure talks, and today Joe Biden was meeting again 154 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: with the the the person in charge of the GOP 155 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: negotiations here, Shelley Moore, Capita. But despite these ongoing talks 156 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: between both sides, there's still no deal. Um Senate Republicans 157 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: late last week gave an author to the White House 158 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: that totaled only a really small percentage of the President's 159 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: two point three trillion dollar package, and today White House 160 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: spokesperson Jen Saki said that is nowhere near good enough. 161 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: We have sound on that the offer did not meet 162 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: the president's bar of growing the economy, tackling the climate crisis, 163 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: and creating new jobs. And I would remind all of 164 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: you both in our counter offer, But then in a 165 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: lot of your reporting, it's clear the President has come 166 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: down by about a trillion dollars and Rick, the president 167 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: has come down. And one thing I noticed in his 168 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: interview with Fox Sunday this weekend, Joe Mansion did not 169 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: rule out necessarily, at least in my view of it, 170 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: going and doing infrastructure on reconciliation essentially, So, do you 171 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: think there's a chance if we don't see a deal 172 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: between Capital and Biden, do you think there's a chance 173 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: that they do this on reconciliation and they keep Joe 174 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: Mansion's vote for that. Well, I would say that center 175 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: Mansion has been very consistent on saying he wants GEOP 176 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: support for this legislation. Right, So, he has always said 177 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: and did this weekend that he was looking for a 178 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: bipartisan bill. Now, bipartisan bill could be sixty plus votes UM, 179 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: or it could be UH some Republicans willing to cross 180 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: the line and not maybe getting to that amount and 181 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: doing it on reconciliation. But I think if he were 182 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: gonna agree to do it on reconciliation, he would have 183 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: to see some Republican support on top of that. It 184 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't be just a fifty plus one vote. So I 185 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: think he's been clear on that, and I think that's 186 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: kept the negotiators, both UH Senator Capital and and UH 187 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: and UH President Biden honest to their efforts to try 188 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: and come to a deal. Honestly, at this point, I 189 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: really can't imagine why they wouldn't get a deal. They've 190 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: invested heavily in it. For any one of them to 191 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: withdraw now is going to make it look like they're 192 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: the ones who broke the trust and UH and so UM. 193 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes these things go a little longer than 194 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: they have to. But I'm still encouraged by the fact 195 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: that they're talking, they're getting closer and closer, as the 196 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: president's press secretary said, and uh, and I think that 197 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: could result in a deal. And Joe Curley, to Rick's point, 198 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: he's been much more optimistic about this than I have. 199 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: As you can just hear um in about thirty seconds. 200 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: Does Biden risk losing many Democrats in the House on 201 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: a deal like this? Well, once again, as I have 202 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: to do, I I agree with Rick. I still think 203 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: there's an opportunity for bipartisanship here. I was a little 204 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: disappointed in terms of what happened last Friday and the 205 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: reports today, but I still think there's hope for bipartisan deal. 206 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: But if not, I will suggest that that Joe Mantion 207 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: would be er tremendous pressure, tremendous pressure to pass a 208 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: reconciliation package UM without the solely a great deal of 209 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: support Republicans. I think Rick as Ryan, if you have 210 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: a couple of stragular Republicans even voting for an infrastructure 211 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: done by reconciliation. So look at Joe and Rick, I'm 212 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: out numbered. You're both much more optimistic than I am, 213 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: and I hope you are right. And of course you 214 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: probably heard over the weekend that we welcomed not me myself, 215 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: but we welcomed a new royal baby. Prince Harry and 216 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: Megan Markle had a daughter named a little bit Diana. 217 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: And we see that the President, our president, is going 218 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: to be heading over to Europe and he will be 219 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: meeting with the Queen on Sunday, So it would be 220 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: fascinating to see what they have to exchange about great 221 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: great grandchildren, grandchildren over there. We're going to talk about 222 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: his trip and much more. I am Janie Schanzano, and 223 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound On on Bloomberg Radio, 224 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: and I'm Jennie Chanzano here with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick 225 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: Davis and former New York Congressman and Democratic cauc His 226 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: chair Joe Crowley. On Sunday, Vice President Kamala Harris left 227 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: for a two day trip to Mexico and Guatemala as 228 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: part of her efforts to tackle what the administration describes 229 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: as the root causes of the crisis at the southern border, 230 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: a combination of poverty, economic instability, and extreme weather. She 231 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: is focusing primarily on the triangle countries of El Salvador, Guatemala, 232 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: and Honduras and visiting one of those countries, Guatemala, and 233 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: then Mexico on her two days abroad, and her office 234 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: said she's going to take a multi pronged approach which 235 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: will include addressing climate change, food insecurity, poverty, violence and 236 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: corruption during her bilateral meetings with the President of Guatemala 237 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: and then the President of Mexico. And later this week 238 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: on Wednesday, President Biden is leaving for his first trip 239 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: overseas as president. He and the First Lady are scheduled 240 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: to meet or to leave on Wednesday, and he will 241 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: be meeting on Thursday with Boris Johnson, followed by three 242 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: days in Cornwall for the G Seven and then a 243 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: meeting with the Queen as we mentioned on Sunday, before 244 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: he leaves her Brussels to attend a NATO summit, and 245 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: the main event next week is Wednesday, his one on 246 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: one meeting with Vladimir Putin, and the US National Security 247 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: Advisor Jake Sullivan said today that the President is going 248 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: to be strategizing with a Erica's allies as to how 249 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: best to protect themselves against a variety of threats and adversaries. 250 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: We have sound on that the G seven leaders will 251 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: make a number of significant commitments on climate, on labor standards, 252 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: on anti corruption, and on ransomware. So Rick, one of 253 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: the things I noticed is that Biden had an editorial 254 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: in the Washington Post not that long ago where he 255 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: described this as a rally for democracy in the face 256 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: of China and Russia. It seems to me that the 257 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: administration is downplaying deliverables on this trip but stressing that 258 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: they are going to try to reset post Trump. What 259 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: is your read on this trip and what do you 260 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: expect the president will come away with? Well, I think 261 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: that part of it is that President Biden likes to 262 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: be the big think, right. He likes to put out 263 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: the big concepts like, you know, preserving democracy and fighting 264 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: totalitarian ism, and and that was very reminiscent of Ronald Reagan. 265 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan would always talk in these big sort of concepts, uh, 266 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: the values that people hold values in this case of 267 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: freedom and liberty, democracy, and and then he would let 268 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: the event dictate the outcome, right, and not try and 269 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: pre sell it. I mean, obviously the G seven. One 270 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: of the big news items out today, you know, is 271 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: the acceptance of the Genet Yelling's proposal to have a 272 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: fifteen percent flat corporate tax around the world. I mean, 273 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: that's a victory lap that they're already taking that are 274 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: gonna talk about, you know, when they get to the 275 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: G seven. But of course, the Biden Putent thing, which 276 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: I agree with Eugenie that made me the most interesting 277 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: part of this whole trip, has a completely unknown outcome, right. 278 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean, like he's obviously going to president, is going 279 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: to go and push back on what he sees as 280 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: incursions in all around the world, whether it's the support 281 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: for the cyber terrorists that are wrecking our economy and 282 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: trying to stop our country from from prospering, or troop 283 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: escalations on the border of Ukraine. I mean, there's a 284 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: range of transgressions, and I think that will be the 285 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: one that will be the big surprise. And Joe Crowley, 286 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: what are you watching for as Biden makes this first 287 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: visit overseas to Europe and meets with so many of 288 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: our friends and then of course ends the trip with 289 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: this one on one with Putin. Well, I think that 290 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: Rick is right that, you know, the big concept, the 291 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: big idea piece of that will be a part of 292 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: this because that's part of Biden's re establishing our relationships 293 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: without traditional allies. I think that on the top of 294 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: the list will be COVID nineteen and vacation and what 295 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: the United States is willing to do in capable of 296 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: doing and helping our allies overseas. You know, the announcement 297 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: that we're going to be shipping a hundred fifty thousand 298 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: doses although very small to Taiwan. Again, it's an indication 299 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: of our you know, soft diplomacy here, but also studying 300 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: messages as well, the video the I think that, you know, 301 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: the victory lap in terms of the yelling agreement on 302 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: a minimum tax global in no at tax, but that 303 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: is yet to be solidified. There are still some steps 304 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: that will have to be taken, including a vote by 305 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: the EU and getting those small countries like Ireland, like 306 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: uh the Czech Republic, Hungary to go along with that 307 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: remains to be seen. I know they have some of 308 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: the tools they'll use to kind of cajole that, but 309 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see how that comes out. But 310 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: there's no question to have it opportunity to boast, but 311 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: I think more importantly to re establish those ties. And yes, 312 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: there's no doubt that the entire world will be watching 313 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: when the President meets with potent But that, as as 314 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: shake Sullivan said, is not as a reward, but really 315 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: they're to send the messages, especially on the issue of 316 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: these cyber attacks, uh and the the the need for 317 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: Russia to crack down on that. Yeah, and as you mentioned, 318 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: we still there's still a long way to go with 319 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: with this flat tax. Obviously one of the big hurdles 320 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: amongst many is going to be getting this through the 321 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: G twenty in July, and of course it would have 322 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: to pass through legislatures like our own, which is an 323 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: uphill battle to say the least. But in the early 324 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: part of his trip, as as as Joe and Rick 325 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: just mentioned, we are going to see the president really 326 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 1: among friends. He's going to try to really you know, 327 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: bolster this transatlantic alliance and our relationship with allies that 328 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: so many people feel was damaged during the Trump administration. 329 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: So we will be watching for that as the President 330 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: leaves on Wednesday. Coming up, we'll talk more about the 331 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: flat tax. I. Am Genie Schanzano and this is Bloomberg 332 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York. 333 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Eleve and Frio does San Francisco, Bloomberg nine in 334 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: sixty to the country, Serious Exam, General one nine team, 335 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg 336 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:14,479 Speaker 1: Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg's sound on. I am 337 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,439 Speaker 1: Jenie Schanzano, and coming up, We're going to talk to 338 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: Rick and Joe about former President Trump's trip trip to 339 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: North Carolina this weekend. We're also going to check in 340 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: with former Representative Mike Rogers about what's going on with 341 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: the ransomware attacks of JBS colonial and others. I'm Janie 342 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: Schanzano here with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis and former 343 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: New York Congressman and Democratic Caucus Chair Joe Crowley. So, 344 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: Rick and Joe over the weekend, I don't know if 345 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: you were watching golf, or gymnastics or Formula one. So 346 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: many sports going on this weekend and so many big 347 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: sports stories. But while you were doing that, Donald Trump 348 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: took a trip to North Carolina. It was one of 349 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: his first trips since leaving office in January, and even 350 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: in the wake of his two year suspension from Facebook, 351 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: he lived a really if I think it was about 352 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: eighty ninety minutes speech he gave to the North Carolina 353 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: Republican Party state Convention, where he not only took on 354 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg, but he pledged to help the 355 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: Republicans win back Congress in the elections and suggested he 356 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: might run for president himself in four um. He is 357 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: not going to be silent um after that. He is 358 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: planning t said to resume his rallies in big states 359 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: like Florida and Ohio fairly soon in the coming weeks, 360 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: he said, And he's also expected to address another conservative 361 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: political action conference in July in Dallas as part of 362 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: his speech in North Carolina over the weekend, though, one 363 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: of the big pieces of news to come out of 364 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: that was after his daughter in law, Lara Truy, decided 365 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: she would not run for Congress. He surprised many people 366 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: by endorsing the Senate candidate, Representative Ted Budd in a 367 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: ninety minute speech. And we have sound on that. It's 368 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: great to be back in Greenville with so many proud 369 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: North Carolina patriots who love our country, support our military, 370 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: respect our police, honor our flag, and always put America first. 371 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: So so Joe, let me ask you that we saw 372 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: the Democrats do very well in this special election in 373 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: New Mexico the other day, even better I think than 374 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: than many people and campaign strategists thought they might, against 375 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: similar messages that the Republicans had used to do fairly 376 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: well in. Does this suggest that the president, former President 377 00:22:54,640 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: Trump is losing some of his steam in these districts. Well, 378 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: don't think there's any question that once you're out of office, 379 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: you you lose a great deal steam as people kind 380 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 1: of recalibrate. Uh, you know, we're not yet into the 381 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: presidential cycle yet. This is really early as far as 382 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: people are concerned. But I think there's also been some 383 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: mixed reviews out there. We saw that in Texas, for instance, 384 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: Democrats did not do as well in that Merril race 385 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: uh down Neo Dallas and Fort Worth uh and as 386 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: well as a McCallon and along the Mexican border where 387 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: there has been some issues there. So I think, you know, 388 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: we're looking towards the New York primaries for instance, uh 389 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: to send some medication as to where Democrats are standing 390 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: right now. So I think this has some ways to play. 391 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: If there's no question, Look, you know, the president, he 392 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: couldn't disappoint me because I never expected him to have 393 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 1: anything else but the visisions he would take about talking 394 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: about how the election was stolen. I think it's sad, 395 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: but it's not disappointing to me because I had to 396 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: weather expectation for him and Rick Davis as as as 397 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: a former Republican and campaign manager for John McCain. How 398 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: much do you think we've I've heard two different schools 399 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: of thought that Trump being out there is actually helping 400 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: jin up you know, excitement amongst Democrats in the base 401 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: and getting them out to vote. And another school of 402 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: thought is, of course it gin's up support amongst Republicans. 403 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: What do you think is happening out there in terms 404 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: of the effect of Trump going public as he did 405 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: in North Carolina and as we expect him to do 406 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: in the coming weeks and other key states. Yeah, there's 407 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: no question, even in his post presidency, even though he 408 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: doesn't think he's post president yet, that that he has 409 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: a big impact on the local politics wherever he happens 410 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: to be. I mean, without his ability to use social 411 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: media to sort of command attention, this is the way 412 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: he's going to be able to get headlines and and 413 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: things like what we're doing and talking about him days 414 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: after he's given a speech. But it cuts both ways. 415 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean there's no question that his intercession and that 416 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: Georgia runoff cost us to United States Senate seats. So 417 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: I mean that's at his feet. So even though he 418 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: can incite Republicans to turn out in some cases, h 419 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: and he does drive up the Democratic turnout because uh, 420 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: if if, if it's believed to be a referend to 421 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: mount Donald Trump, more Democrats are likely to turn out. Uh, 422 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: he does have the ability to have all of that 423 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: backfire on him. And I would say, Um, part of 424 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: it was this endorsement that you talked about. Um, you know, 425 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: the other Republican running is the former governor of the state, 426 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: Pat mccruory, who sat there watching this happen in front 427 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: of him. Uh. And then after the endorsement of Bud 428 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: that the President Trump did, uh, you know, took some 429 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: shots at mccruary. So you know, he when the President 430 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: gets involved in these Republican fights in a state like 431 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: North Carolina, you know, he can demoralize a lot of 432 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: candidates and a lot of voters who like Pat McQuary 433 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: and maybe would have supported him for for the nomination 434 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: and Rick as usually, you just described that so beautifully. 435 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: It's sort of classic Donald Trump. But it really does 436 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: make your skin crawl when you when you sit there 437 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: and watch somebody be put through that, like the former 438 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: governor Joe Crowley. Before we let you go, because I 439 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: know you've got places to go, I would just love 440 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: to get your view and sort of sizing up briefly 441 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: the New York City mayoral race, which is coming in 442 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks the primaries. What do you 443 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: think happens on the Democratic side there? Well, I know 444 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: there's been some pretty big endorsements, if I don't say herself, 445 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: but you know, I think, yeah, they're recent pole I 446 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: think I New York one indicates that Eric Adams has 447 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: really jumped a bit away from yang Um. I think, um, there, there, there, there, there. 448 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: It's very volatile. Quite frankly, you know, the New York 449 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: Times endorsement of certainly set her off, and now that 450 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of settled in a little bit more now, 451 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: I still think it's Adams to lose. You know, you're 452 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: still a fifth team so or days away from from 453 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 1: the outcome. But I still have that sense that it's 454 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: Adam Still. Yeah, I agree with you on that, but boy, 455 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: it has been tight and exciting for people outside of 456 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: New York to watch this race. With the New York 457 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: City Democratic primary coming up, as you mentioned about fourteen 458 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: fifteen days coming up, Rick Davis and I are going 459 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: to talk to former Representative Mike Rogers. Want to thank representative, 460 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: former Representative Joe Crowley, congressman from New York, former Congressman 461 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: from New York, and former Democratic Democratic cauc Is Chair. 462 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: I'm Jennie Schanzano and this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg 463 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: sound On on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jennie Chanzano along with 464 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis. Millions of dollars in cryptocurrency 465 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: paid to hackers of the largest pipeline in the US 466 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: has been Rick covered this according to Lisa Monaco, Deputy 467 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: Attorney General of the Justice Department, here's some sound on 468 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: that ransomware attacks have increased in both scope and sophistication 469 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: in the last year, targeting our critical infrastructure, businesses of 470 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: all types, whole cities, and even law enforcement. And joining 471 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: us on the line to walk us through this really 472 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: important story is Mike Rogers. He's former Republican congressmen representing 473 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: Michigan's eighth Congressional district from two thousand and one to 474 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen, former Chairman of the House Permanent 475 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Select Committee on Intelligence between two thousand eleven and two 476 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, and currently the Director of iron Net 477 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: cyber Security. So, Representative Rogers, it is so good to 478 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: have you on as we're hearing this news break about 479 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: the recovery of these millions. Can you walk us through 480 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: how the government would recover cryptocurrency like that? Yeah, so, 481 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: and thanks, it's great to be here. This is pretty unusual, 482 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: so this isn't gonna happen every time. This is a 483 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: good new success story. And what it tells me is 484 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: it's likely not the most sophisticated group and or they 485 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: felt so confident they didn't protect their operations with proper security. 486 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: So what the FEDS likely did, uh, is tracked back 487 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: to their accounts, their network and got into their crypto wallet, 488 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,239 Speaker 1: so they had a place where they would store this, 489 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: the millions of dollars of ransom. And if you can 490 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: find that and you have the sophistication of the US 491 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: government you can dip back in there and take those cryptocurrency, 492 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: that cryptocurrency back UH and then put it back into 493 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: the open market and give it back to colonial. Then 494 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: they would go ahead and exchange it for real money 495 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: to get their money back. They probably didn't get at all, 496 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: but they probably got a good chunk of it. It's 497 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: pretty sophisticated, but again, you gotta go there's a little 498 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 1: bit of luck involved here. They had to hop back 499 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: and find that crypto crypto wallet, and they had to 500 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: get into their at work, so that takes a pretty 501 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: supiscated operation to do that. Mike, this is one of 502 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: the few good news items that have come out of 503 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: the government lately related to UH cyber attacks, in this 504 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: case a ransomware attack where people shut down operations of 505 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: a company and and extorted money out of them. But 506 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: there have been much more high profile and frankly more 507 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: devastating attacks like the solar winds attack earlier last year, 508 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: that have upset the security of our country. And I'm 509 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: curious are you seeing progress being made on this. I 510 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: remember my boss John McCain tearing apart another Mike Rodgers, 511 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: the former admiral who was in charge of cyber command, 512 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: uh five years ago about how ill prepared we are. 513 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: And yet today it seems like that we're repeating all 514 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: that same kind of narrative. Well, and and that's true. 515 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: And if you recall about eleven years ago of my 516 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: partner and I Dutch Roopersburg, the Democrat on my committee, 517 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: we came up pretty aggressive of la about saying, hey, look, 518 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: we have a huge problem in cybersecurity and it's growing. 519 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, China, Russia and others are 520 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: going to be the cause of it. And it's only 521 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: gotten worse. And so we have admired the problem in 522 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: the US government and now it seems like they have 523 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: a love affair with the problem. They have not done 524 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: the things that they need to do to stop this. 525 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: And think about it, in what part of national security 526 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: when you're talking about protecting the economic base of the 527 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: United States, not just in critical infrastructure. Certainly colonial was 528 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: a part of that, but any company that is engaged 529 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: in commerce in the United States and employing people and 530 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: developing ID what other place would we say, Listen, if 531 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: someone flayers, a missile blows up your business, we're all 532 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: into the US government will help you with that. But 533 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: if a hacker from China or Russia or you know, 534 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: Iran gets into your network, causes disruption, cause economic loss, 535 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: guess what, you're on your own. We just haven't done it, 536 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: and so we haven't crossed this threshold that we need 537 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: to do, uh to rest of we have a collective 538 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: defense across both government and private sector to take out 539 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: the profitability and these criminal enterprise actions. There's ways we 540 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: can do that and really push for these companies to 541 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: understand they have to improve their defenses. You have to 542 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: lock your front door. The cops can still come, but 543 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: it's up to you to lock your windows in your 544 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: front door. Well, it's you know, the good cyber hygiene 545 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: and defense work is going to have to happen up front. 546 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: But I will tell you this is and I did 547 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: not bet on this not that long ago. If we're 548 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: in a cyber shooting war today. So if the countries 549 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: that we just talked about really wanted to cause disruption 550 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: and break things using the Internet, we would lose. And 551 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: we just are not well protected because again, remember these 552 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: companies are being asked to do this by themselves. It 553 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: is a good news story, but remember this is clean 554 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: up on Aisle nine after it happened, after it was 555 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: shut down, after the ransom was paid, they were able 556 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: to work their way back and get some of that 557 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: money back. Mike, I'm curious. I mean, you've talked about 558 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: collect the defense, but is there a collective offense? I mean, 559 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: is there a way to create you know, in the 560 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: nuclear era, we talked about a mutually assured destruction. Is 561 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: there such a thing in cyber where these countries that 562 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: harbor these criminals and sponsor these things themselves as governments, uh, 563 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: could have the same thing happened to them and therefore 564 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: not allowed to happen to us. Yeah. And it's not 565 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: that we don't have capability. And this is one of 566 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: those things Rick, you made this time, uh and Genie 567 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: as well. But this thing was debated over and over. 568 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: What is our offense capable? How far can we go? 569 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: How do you make sure this doesn't spin out of control? 570 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: And here's the problem. The government controls and protects dot 571 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: mill and dot gov. That works out to roughly of 572 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: all the networks. The other eight percent of the networks 573 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: are private sector networks. In the n s A is 574 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: not looking at them. A contrary to common belief, they're 575 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: not looking at them. So if the n s a 576 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: go and flick someone in the forehead overseas and says, 577 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: thou shalt not do that again, and we're going to 578 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: make your life miserable via cyber guess what, they have 579 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: the option to come back at that of these networks 580 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: that they all know aren't protected. And so we have 581 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: had we have to get to a better defense. And 582 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: my dad always said, if you're gonna go punch your 583 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: neighbor in the nose, best to hit the weight room 584 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: for a while first. And so we have got to 585 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: toughen up our defenses. We have to have this collaborative 586 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,479 Speaker 1: defense before we can actually be offensive in turning off 587 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: things and disrupting their illegal and nefarious activities. So Representative 588 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: Rodgers Wold thing that hasn't been discussed a lot in 589 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: the United States, at least as far as I can see, 590 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: is this Open Skies treaty put and pulled out of 591 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: it formally on Monday, Russia exits it. And this is 592 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: this path that allows for unarmed surveillance flights over member countries. 593 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's meeting obviously next week with Putin, what do 594 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: you think the United States should do about that pull out, 595 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: And can you talk a little bit about the relationship 596 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: between that treaty and these kind of cyber attacks as 597 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned Russia, China and these other countries. What impact 598 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: that treaty has had on that, well, a couple of things. 599 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,479 Speaker 1: So if you think about what this means, it means 600 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: that the upfront at thirty foot level, if you will, 601 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: it's deteriorating. Our security posture is deteriorating, and that mutual 602 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: security posture is deteriorating with countries certainly like Russia. And 603 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: so they have been engaged in activities that I would 604 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: argue and I think our intelligence services would argue, has 605 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: pushed the limits on intermitt intermediate nuclear forces, treaties and 606 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: other things that I think they have likely violated and 607 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: or cheated or both, uh, in those kinds of things. 608 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: And so some of these the surveillance that you mentioned 609 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: is really the important because it's the you know, it's 610 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: the security guard walking over and jiggling the door to 611 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: make sure it's locked. Right. It's just to keep the 612 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: honest people honest, uh, and make sure that you're doing 613 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: all the things that you need to do to protect yourself, 614 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: including keeping an eye on bad guys. That's why you 615 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: put up cameras. That's why you have senses, that's why 616 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: you do all those kinds of things on a personal 617 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: physical level. Well, same thing with both aerial surveillance and 618 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: or electronic surveillance and other things. It is a tool 619 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: to try to make sure that we could say, hey, 620 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: we know what you know what you're doing, and you 621 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: need to stop it now. And so this is worrisome 622 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: for me, and it's and it is a leverage point 623 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: for countries exactly like Russia to end up pushing that envelope. 624 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: And so they don't have an economy that's gonna knock 625 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: us around. They can't really do anything economically to us 626 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: other than unleash these proxy forces to do cyber attacks 627 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: by the way, uh and cause US economic disruption that way. 628 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: But what can they do well, They can use all 629 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: though these tools to try to push back against NATO, 630 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: against the United States, against our allies. That's why you 631 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,919 Speaker 1: see this happening. And it's my hope that the Buying 632 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: administration gets ahead of this problem, and they get ahead 633 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: of it very soon, because the longer this goes, the 634 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: more the more difficulty it gives to our intelligence services 635 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: and our surveillance folks. Let me put it that way, 636 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: to make sure that they're not doing something they're not 637 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: supposed to do. So, Mike, the President calls you up. 638 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: He's like, I'm seeing this guy putin soon. I need 639 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: some advice. You got thirty seconds. What do I tell 640 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 1: him about this cyber attacks that his country has been hosting. 641 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: I would just put a timeline on it. You're gonna 642 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: have a certain amount of time or we are going 643 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: to have to respond, and we won't go beyond a 644 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: reasonable response, but we will target individuals, networks, UH and 645 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: front companies that are actively participating. And remember, by the way, 646 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: and this is the defense piece, the Russians used a 647 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: US domain name and a US server no ing that 648 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: our current law, current politics won't allow the n s 649 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: A the best player on the field, even out of 650 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: the locker room, to help defend this. So get our 651 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: act together and tell them we are going to do this, 652 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: and we're going to make sure that there's a cost 653 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: a consequence for what you're doing. Thank you so much. 654 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: Former representative from Michigan, Mike Rogers. He is currently the 655 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: director at IRONT Cyber Security. Great to talk to you 656 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: on this important day as the entire country wrestles with 657 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: this cyber security challenges. I am Genie Schanzano, along with 658 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politives contributor Rick Davis. Thank you so much, Bloomberg 659 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: News