WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Ramona Gregory 

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<v Speaker 1>School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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<v Speaker 1>case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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<v Speaker 1>witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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<v Speaker 1>be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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<v Speaker 1>from family and community members, their statements should not be

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<v Speaker 1>considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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<v Speaker 1>inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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<v Speaker 1>presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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<v Speaker 1>that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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<v Speaker 1>is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 2>Late in the afternoon on March twentieth, nineteen ninety, a

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<v Speaker 2>man named JM. Jim Hannigan was checking property lines and

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<v Speaker 2>fences near the Clayton Expressway in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Jim

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<v Speaker 2>was the caretaker for land that belonged to a local family,

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<v Speaker 2>the Carneyes. He later told police his job was to

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<v Speaker 2>regularly check the fences and property lines and that the

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<v Speaker 2>gate to the property was always padlocked. According to an

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<v Speaker 2>incident report, that afternoon, Jim was checking the south side

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<v Speaker 2>of Clayton Expressway near Williams Lane when he saw something

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<v Speaker 2>in the distance. At first he thought it might be

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<v Speaker 2>a dead animal, but when he got closer, he realized

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<v Speaker 2>it was not an animal. It was a body. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine Townsend. Over the past eight years of making my

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<v Speaker 2>true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there's no

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<v Speaker 2>such thing as a small town where murder never happens.

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<v Speaker 2>I have received hundreds of messages from people all around

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<v Speaker 2>the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's

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<v Speaker 2>affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have

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<v Speaker 2>a case, she'd let me and my team to look into.

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<v Speaker 2>You can reach out to us at our Helen Gone

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<v Speaker 2>Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six five.

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<v Speaker 2>That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five,

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<v Speaker 2>or you can send us a message on Instagram at

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<v Speaker 2>Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. The victim

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<v Speaker 2>was nude, her remains were partially decomposed. She was lying

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<v Speaker 2>face down in an area of tall grass, weeds and briars.

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<v Speaker 2>The body was inside the fence line off a fire break.

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<v Speaker 2>The area around the body had been disturbed and parts

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<v Speaker 2>of the body had been consumed by animals. Jim Hannigan

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<v Speaker 2>called the police at four twenty three pm. The Fort

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<v Speaker 2>Smith Police Department got that call that there was a

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<v Speaker 2>nude body lying off the north side of Clayton Expressway,

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<v Speaker 2>south of the Williams Lane intersection. Jim later told police

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<v Speaker 2>that he had the only key. Just a note here.

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing that we've read indicates that police believed that Jim

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<v Speaker 2>was involved with Ramona's death in any way. Officer Chuck

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<v Speaker 2>Warr responded he met Jim out on the expressway and

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<v Speaker 2>Jim led him to the Padlock gate. From there, they

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<v Speaker 2>went down the inside of the fence along the firebreak.

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<v Speaker 2>That was where Officer war saw the body. He immediately

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<v Speaker 2>contacted Captain Ralph Wood, and pretty soon the entire Major

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<v Speaker 2>Crimes unit was on the scene. At that point, police

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<v Speaker 2>did not know who the victim was, but they could

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<v Speaker 2>see that the body appeared to be female, that the

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<v Speaker 2>victim had blonde hair, and that her finger nails were

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<v Speaker 2>painted red. On her left wrist, she wore a gold

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<v Speaker 2>chain bracelet. Investigator's searched the area around her body. They

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<v Speaker 2>found three separate locations where blonde hair was wadded up

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<v Speaker 2>on the ground, all within about six feet of the body.

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<v Speaker 2>They also found an old, weathered key near Clayton Expressway.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's not explained in the report what this key

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<v Speaker 2>went to or whether it could have been one that

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<v Speaker 2>fit that lock. I'm guessing not since it's not mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>in the report, but it's an odd coincidence that Jim

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<v Speaker 2>said he had the only key and another key was

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<v Speaker 2>found near the body. The coroner, Reverend Parrish, was notified.

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<v Speaker 2>He came to the scene and immediately pronounced the victim debt.

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<v Speaker 2>Police contacted the Medical Examiner's office in Little Rock, and

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<v Speaker 2>someone from the medical Examiner's office was sent to take

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<v Speaker 2>possession of the body and the physical evidence. Because it

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<v Speaker 2>was getting dark fast, police left the scene. They came

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<v Speaker 2>back the next day to do a more detailed search.

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<v Speaker 2>They took additional photographs, made a crime scene sketch, and

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<v Speaker 2>used a metal detector to look for projectiles like bullets

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<v Speaker 2>or shell casings. They didn't find any, but the medical

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<v Speaker 2>examiner later pulled a bullet out of the victim's skull.

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<v Speaker 2>The me was able to determine that the victim was

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<v Speaker 2>female and that she had been shot in the head

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<v Speaker 2>with a twenty five caliber pistol. The bullet was fully intact,

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<v Speaker 2>good enough for comparison to find possible murder weapons. So

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<v Speaker 2>now police knew how she had died. The question was

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<v Speaker 2>who was she and why was she out in that field.

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<v Speaker 2>Police started notifying multiple agencies, including the Van Buren Police

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<v Speaker 2>Department in the Crawford County Sheriff's Office US. Both of

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<v Speaker 2>those agencies had recent missing persons reports that generally match

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<v Speaker 2>the body. Detectives obtained files and dental records for two

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<v Speaker 2>missing women last names listed on the reports as Belle

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<v Speaker 2>and Hassler, so that they could be forwarded to the

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<v Speaker 2>medical examiner. The medical examiner later told investigators that the

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<v Speaker 2>body was not the missing Hassler woman from Crawford County,

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<v Speaker 2>and now police had a better and more complete description

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<v Speaker 2>of the victim. She was a white female around five

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<v Speaker 2>foot six, about one hundred and thirty pounds, with blonde

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<v Speaker 2>hair and good teeth. The police got a call from

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<v Speaker 2>the family of a sixteen year old named Ramona Gregory,

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<v Speaker 2>who had been missing for weeks. Ramona was from Rowland, Oklahoma,

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<v Speaker 2>just across the state line from Fort Smith. She was

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<v Speaker 2>a ninth grade student at Darby Junior High School. She

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<v Speaker 2>lived with her parents, Brenda and Raymond Gregory and her sisters,

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<v Speaker 2>Bridget and Cassie Langley. Her family had reported her missing

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<v Speaker 2>on February fourth, nineteen ninety, and by the time she

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<v Speaker 2>was found, decomposition and animal activity had already taken away

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of evidence that might have told police what

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<v Speaker 2>happened during her final hours. On March twenty second, nineteen ninety,

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<v Speaker 2>after getting info from the Gregory family, the Medical Examiner's

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<v Speaker 2>Office officially identified the body. They matched fingerprints from the

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<v Speaker 2>body to a fingerprint card on file for Ramona Gregory.

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona had apparently been arrested before, and the Fort Smith

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<v Speaker 2>Police Department's Juvenile Division had photographs, finger prints, and a

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<v Speaker 2>file on her, so the decomposed body found off Clayton

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<v Speaker 2>Expressway was confirmed to be Ramona Gregory. Once investigators had

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<v Speaker 2>her name, they started trying to reconstruct where she had been,

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<v Speaker 2>who she had been with, and what happened to her

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<v Speaker 2>between the day she disappeared and the day when Jim

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<v Speaker 2>Hannigan found her body behind that lock gate near a

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<v Speaker 2>fire break. But this wasn't easy because Ramona moved around

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<v Speaker 2>a lot at that time. Detectives said she was known

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<v Speaker 2>to be a runaway. She would stay in different places

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<v Speaker 2>around Roland and Fort Smith. They were able to identify

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<v Speaker 2>several hangouts where she went regularly. The main one was

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<v Speaker 2>Grand Avenue, where she would cruise around and spend time

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<v Speaker 2>with friends. Ramona had friends and relatives all around, including

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<v Speaker 2>her sister Cassie in our Coma, Oklahoma, and friends in

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<v Speaker 2>Van Buren and an area north of US Highway sixty

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<v Speaker 2>four between Roland and Muldro. Detective J. C. Ryder was

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<v Speaker 2>in charge of the case. He told The Times Record

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<v Speaker 2>that Ramona's only transportation was walking and hitchhiking, and she

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<v Speaker 2>did a lot of walking around. He said it was

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<v Speaker 2>not uncommon for her to walk from Roland to Fort

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<v Speaker 2>Smith and back again. So if Ramona was walking and

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<v Speaker 2>hitchhiking between Roland, our Coma, Van Buren and Fort Smith,

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<v Speaker 2>that may her extremely vulnerable. She was sixteen years old,

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<v Speaker 2>and if she was walking around and hitching a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>especially late at night, that would seem to drastically increase

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<v Speaker 2>the murder suspect pool. In June of nineteen ninety, the

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<v Speaker 2>Times Record reported the detectives were asking for the public's help.

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<v Speaker 2>They wanted to fill in the blanks in Ramona's timeline

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<v Speaker 2>and figure out where she was on the day she disappeared.

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<v Speaker 2>Detective j. C Ryder told the newspaper, quote, I'm asking

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<v Speaker 2>people who remember the girl and last time they saw her,

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<v Speaker 2>and possibly who she was with. End quote. They wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to know who had been with Ramona, what she was doing,

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<v Speaker 2>and what was going on with her life. They wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to look for any possible motive for murder. Police spoke

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<v Speaker 2>with Ramona's mother, Brenda Gregory and her sister, Cassie Gregory.

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<v Speaker 2>They both told investigators Ramona had left home in the

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<v Speaker 2>past for a day or two, but they said they

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<v Speaker 2>reported Ramona missing on February fourth because they said she

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<v Speaker 2>had been gone for weeks aga that point, and they

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<v Speaker 2>said she had never been gone for that long before.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time, Cassie was living at the Westwood Apartments

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<v Speaker 2>in our Coma, Oklahoma, with her boyfriend, Rodley Michaelmore, her

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<v Speaker 2>two children, and Ramona. Cassie told police Ramona came in

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<v Speaker 2>on what she believed was the Thursday night. Ramona said

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<v Speaker 2>she was going to roll in, Oklahoma to her aunt's house,

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<v Speaker 2>which was somewhere that she often stayed over. She said

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<v Speaker 2>that she wanted to get some clothes eat and shower.

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<v Speaker 2>Then she said she was going to Fort Smith on

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<v Speaker 2>Friday to go out on Grand Avenue. After Ramona failed

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<v Speaker 2>to come home or contact her, Cassie later talked to

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<v Speaker 2>their aunt, Susan McGuire, who lived at the Shady Lane

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<v Speaker 2>apartments in Roland, and Susan told Cassie Ramona had come

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<v Speaker 2>to her house like she had told Cassie and Brenda

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<v Speaker 2>she was going to. Susan said Ramona showered and ate

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<v Speaker 2>and got dressed to go out. Then Ramona left for

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<v Speaker 2>Grand Avenue on foot. After that, no one in her

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<v Speaker 2>family heard from her again. That is the last clear

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<v Speaker 2>family timeline. The last time Ramona was seen was when

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<v Speaker 2>she was leaving her aunt's apartment in Roland, walking toward

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<v Speaker 2>Grand Avenue in Fort Smith. After that she disappeared. But

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<v Speaker 2>it turned out there were other things that had happened

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<v Speaker 2>to Ramona in the days before she went missing, including

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<v Speaker 2>a claim that someone had tried to rape her. Cassie

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<v Speaker 2>told police that on Monday or Tuesday night, so a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of days before the last time they saw her,

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona had come in upset. Ramona said she had been

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<v Speaker 2>approached by a man driving a pickup truck. According to Cassie,

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona told her the man offered Ramona a ride and

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<v Speaker 2>some crank, then he tried to force himself sexually on her.

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona said she got away. She described the man as

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<v Speaker 2>white with short brown hair and a brown mustache, so

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<v Speaker 2>police had a description of a possible suspect, but Ramona

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<v Speaker 2>was also reporting troubling encounters in her personal life. Brenda

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<v Speaker 2>and Cassie also told police Ramona was dating someone. This

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<v Speaker 2>guy's name is redacted in the case file. They said

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona and this boyfriend had often gone to another person's

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<v Speaker 2>house in our coma. The person's name is also redacted

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<v Speaker 2>in parts of this file, but the redactions make clear

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<v Speaker 2>this person they're talking about is Ramona's boyfriend's father. Ramona

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<v Speaker 2>had told Brenda and Cassie that her boyfriend's dad paid

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<v Speaker 2>her to do housework, and she also said that he

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<v Speaker 2>made sexual advances toward her. According to Brenda and Cassie,

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<v Speaker 2>at one point, Ramona's boyfriend was in jail, and after

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<v Speaker 2>he got out, he started coming by their house, asking

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<v Speaker 2>if they knew where Ramona was or if they had

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<v Speaker 2>heard from her. They said he had been checking on

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona's whereabouts. Police also interviewed Ramona's boyfriend. Ramona's boyfriend said

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona had met an older man who from the redactions

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<v Speaker 2>it seems like he means his dad at a Halloween

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<v Speaker 2>party at the Crossroads Club. Ramona's boyfriend told police. During

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<v Speaker 2>the time he and Romona were dating, he was in

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<v Speaker 2>and out of jail, and he was very open about

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<v Speaker 2>his father and the fact that his dad allegedly made

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<v Speaker 2>unwanted advances toward Romona. The boyfriend said his father would

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<v Speaker 2>pick him and Romona up and take them to his

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<v Speaker 2>house in Arcoma, where the boyfriend said his dad paid

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<v Speaker 2>them to do work around the house. The boyfriend worked

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<v Speaker 2>on cars, Ramona would do housework. The boyfriend confirmed what

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<v Speaker 2>Cassie told police. He told detectives that Ramona had complained

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<v Speaker 2>that his father would pinch her, slap her on the butt,

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<v Speaker 2>and make sexual advances toward her. Then, he described a

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<v Speaker 2>phone call. He said that while he was in jail,

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<v Speaker 2>he made a collect call to his father's house because

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted to talk to Ramona. Ramona got on the

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<v Speaker 2>phone and told him she was having trouble with his dad.

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<v Speaker 2>She said he was keeping her drunk all the time

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<v Speaker 2>and making sexual advances toward her. According to the boyfriend,

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<v Speaker 2>Ramona said his father had gotten her drunk, thrown her

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<v Speaker 2>on a bed, and tried to rape her. She said

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<v Speaker 2>she was leaving after that. The boyfriend said he never

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<v Speaker 2>heard from Romona again. When the boyfriend got out of jail,

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<v Speaker 2>he went to confront his father about these alleged sexual

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<v Speaker 2>advances toward his girlfriend. He told police, when he got

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<v Speaker 2>to his dad's house, he saw at least six twenty

0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.680
<v Speaker 2>five caliber handguns there. Ramona had been shot in the

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 2>head with a twenty five caliber pistol. The boyfriend said

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 2>he knew that those guns were stolen, and he was

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 2>angry with his father, so he called the police to

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.520
<v Speaker 2>report his dad for the stolen guns. Detectives contacted Detective

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Bill Hollahan of the Fort Smith Police Department's Criminal Investigation Division.

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 2>So Detective Hallahan had recently worked a series of burglaries

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 2>involving stolen guns from a Fort Smith flea market. Some

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 2>of those guns had been discovered at a residence in

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 2>ar Coma, where one of Ramona's acquaintances had been living.

0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.440
<v Speaker 2>One of the guns, a twenty five caliber Sema automatic

0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Raven pistol had been returned to its owner, but police

0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 2>went back to trace that gun. They got it back

0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 2>from its owner, believing that it could be a possible

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 2>piece of evidence in Ramona's murder. Police also tracked down

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.320
<v Speaker 2>another semi automatic pistol that had been recovered in a

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Texas arrest involving one of the burglary suspects. Both guns

0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 2>were tested and both were eliminated as possible murder weapons.

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.560
<v Speaker 2>So police had some disturbing pieces of information. They knew

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 2>that Ramona had had at least one scary encounter with

0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 2>a man who threatened her, and she was dealing with

0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 2>her boyfriend's father, who, she claimed to multiple people gave

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 2>her alcohol in drugs and subjected her to alleged attempted

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 2>sexual assaults. And they had had the twenty five caliber

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.240
<v Speaker 2>bullet that was in good enough condition to compare, but

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 2>they didn't have anything more concrete and the guns weren't

0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 2>a match. And then the police found another major piece

0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of evidence, not at the crime scene, but in an

0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 2>area around Harriet Lane near a railroad. Two men, Mike

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Walker and Fredman Schell, who were both employees of the

0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Arkansas and Missouri Railroad mainline were cutting right away for

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 2>the railroad line. Right of way is the strip of land,

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.720
<v Speaker 2>usually a couple of one hundred feet around the tracks

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.760
<v Speaker 2>that are owned by the railroad, the part where the

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 2>power lines go through. Near the tracks off Harriet Lane,

0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:31.560
<v Speaker 2>the two men saw clothing a sweater, jeans, underwear, a bra,

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:36.400
<v Speaker 2>and boots. Later, they met with two detectives, Detective Scott

0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 2>and Detective Champion. They showed them where the clothing was.

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 2>They said they had found the clothing on March thirteenth.

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.080
<v Speaker 2>It wastographed and bag for testing. When the detectives showed

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the clothing to Brenda and Cassie, Ramona's mother and sister,

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.200
<v Speaker 2>the women said that the sweater was Ramona's and that

0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 2>the boots looked like a pair of Ramona often wore

0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>boots she had borrowed from a girlfriend. They said the

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.760
<v Speaker 2>genes also looked like Ramona's. Cassie said that the underwear

0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.440
<v Speaker 2>was hers, she had loaned it to Ramona. Cassie also

0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.560
<v Speaker 2>said Ramona had a gold plated chain bracelet. There was

0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.120
<v Speaker 2>a bracelet like that on the body, but because of

0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.640
<v Speaker 2>the graphic nature of the crime scene photos, detectives did

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 2>not show that photo to Ramona's family. They also showed

0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.520
<v Speaker 2>the clothing to Ramona's boyfriend. He also confirmed it was hers.

0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.920
<v Speaker 2>The clothing evidence creates another question. If Ramona's body was

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.960
<v Speaker 2>found off Clayton Expressway, why were her clothes found near

0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.760
<v Speaker 2>the railroad tracks off Harriet Lane, which was about half

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.680
<v Speaker 2>a mile away. Were they dumb there by the killer?

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Did Ramona leave them there before she died? Did something

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.360
<v Speaker 2>happen to her there and then later she was moved.

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.160
<v Speaker 2>The clothing was submitted to rology for analysis, but from

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>the pieces of Ramona's case file that we have, we

0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 2>can't tell whether that testing ever led to any determinations.

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Detectives were trying to build a map of Ramona's final

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 2>days from the memories of people who knew her casually,

0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 2>people who saw her walking or saw her get into cars,

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.120
<v Speaker 2>or people who saw her at the clubs or in

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:18.720
<v Speaker 2>cruising spots. But Ramona was also a teenage runaway, and

0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:23.320
<v Speaker 2>that label unfortunately affected how the case was understood. In

0:19:23.360 --> 0:19:26.600
<v Speaker 2>December of nineteen ninety one, the Times Record interviewed a

0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Crawford County Juvenile probation officer name Leanne Cluck about the

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:34.160
<v Speaker 2>number of runaways around the holidays. Cluck said that as

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.720
<v Speaker 2>of December first, nineteen ninety one, Fort Smith, Arkansas, had

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and thirty five runaways. Now, most of those

0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:47.000
<v Speaker 2>teenagers would eventually make it home safely. Ramona Gregory was

0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.200
<v Speaker 2>one of the ones who did not, and around this

0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.120
<v Speaker 2>time there were several reports of runaways who were murdered

0:19:54.120 --> 0:19:58.360
<v Speaker 2>in Fort Smith. This included Estella Martin, a fourteen year

0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.200
<v Speaker 2>old from Van Buren, who was also a runaway. Anne

0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:06.400
<v Speaker 2>was murdered. Kluck talked about how parents were sometimes reluctant

0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.840
<v Speaker 2>to admit that their children were runaways because they were embarrassed.

0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.360
<v Speaker 2>They worried that people would judge them or assume that

0:20:13.360 --> 0:20:16.680
<v Speaker 2>they were bad parents. But she stressed this was not

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the right way to look at things, and that the

0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 2>most important thing was that missing children were reported immediately,

0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:28.080
<v Speaker 2>because even if a child left home voluntarily, something could

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.040
<v Speaker 2>happen to them very quickly, something that was not voluntary.

0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.640
<v Speaker 2>This is exactly the danger at the center of Ramona's case.

0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 2>She lived her life on her own terms, staying with

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.720
<v Speaker 2>different people and moving around, but at some point something

0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.400
<v Speaker 2>happened to her that she did not choose. Someone shot

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.120
<v Speaker 2>her in the head stripped her and left her body

0:20:48.120 --> 0:20:51.880
<v Speaker 2>in a field, and over thirty years later, her killer

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.960
<v Speaker 2>has still not been found. There is not a lot

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.920
<v Speaker 2>of information out there about this case. After the initial

0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.840
<v Speaker 2>flurry of information, the story kind of died out. But

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.160
<v Speaker 2>after a FOY request, we were able to get Ramona's

0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.360
<v Speaker 2>case file back, and in my opinion, the case file

0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.800
<v Speaker 2>suggests investigators had a lot more to work with than

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.320
<v Speaker 2>the public may have known. There was the man in

0:21:14.360 --> 0:21:17.680
<v Speaker 2>the pickup truck who allegedly tried to assault Ramona days

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.120
<v Speaker 2>before she disappeared. There was the older man in our coma,

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:26.560
<v Speaker 2>her boyfriend's dad, who allegedly gave Ramona alcohol, made sexual advances,

0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:31.080
<v Speaker 2>and tried to rape her. Police did question Ramona's boyfriend's father,

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 2>and he took a lot of detector test At first,

0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.560
<v Speaker 2>he told them that the last time he saw Ramona

0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>was outside her sister, Cassie's apartment. He said he drove

0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 2>her to his house where she cleaned and then left

0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.320
<v Speaker 2>without incident. He said that any claims that Ramona may

0:21:48.360 --> 0:21:53.320
<v Speaker 2>have made about sexual advances were absolutely false. Police said

0:21:53.360 --> 0:21:57.200
<v Speaker 2>they believed that his responses indicated deception, and then he

0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 2>changed his story. This time he said that he had

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.440
<v Speaker 2>had a sexual encounter with Ramona, but that it was consensual.

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.280
<v Speaker 2>He told police that while Ramona was cleaning his house,

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 2>she walked into the bathroom, took off her bra, and

0:22:12.120 --> 0:22:13.960
<v Speaker 2>then came up to him while he was sitting in

0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.120
<v Speaker 2>a recliner. Then, he said he kissed her and fondled

0:22:17.120 --> 0:22:20.960
<v Speaker 2>her breast. He claimed that Ramona said, I'm feeling like

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.520
<v Speaker 2>a slut because he was too old for her, and

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 2>that she said, this makes me feel cheap and it's wrong.

0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.880
<v Speaker 2>After that, the boyfriend's dad claimed he told Ramona to

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.440
<v Speaker 2>put her bra back on and he drove her home.

0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 2>He continued to insist to police that he never had

0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 2>sex with her or forced her into anything. The boyfriend's

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.120
<v Speaker 2>father was interrogated two other times and took two more

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:50.520
<v Speaker 2>light detector tests concerning Ramona's murder, and according to police reports,

0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:55.800
<v Speaker 2>both times, the results indicated deception. In my opinion, his

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.920
<v Speaker 2>accounts of what Ramona said contradict everything that she told

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.440
<v Speaker 2>multiple witnesses about her encounters with this man, and yet

0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 2>he was never arrested or charged. Ramona's murder did not

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:11.960
<v Speaker 2>happen in a vacuum in the years before and after

0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.440
<v Speaker 2>her disappearance, the Fort Smith area had plenty of other

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 2>unsolved murders of young women and girls that left the

0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:33.120
<v Speaker 2>community with more questions than answers. In the nineteen eighties

0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 2>and early nineteen nineties, there were other unsolved murders of

0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.400
<v Speaker 2>young women and girls in the same city where Ramona's

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 2>body was found. One of those cases was less Hogg.

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:48.080
<v Speaker 2>There is not much information about her case out there

0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 2>except that she was a quote runaway who was later

0:23:51.360 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 2>found dead. Here's what we know. On November first, nineteen

0:23:55.360 --> 0:23:58.120
<v Speaker 2>eighty five, Leslie went for a walk to the Bailey

0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Hill Reservoir. Her body was later found with an open

0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:04.880
<v Speaker 2>six pack of beer next to her. She had been

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:10.200
<v Speaker 2>strangled with shoelaces from her own shoes. Decades later, police

0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:14.760
<v Speaker 2>have said they still consider Leslie's case active. Some investigators

0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:17.600
<v Speaker 2>have wondered whether there could have been a serial killer

0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:20.720
<v Speaker 2>in Fort Smith during that time period. I want to

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:25.400
<v Speaker 2>just stress there's no indication that Leslie's and Ramona's case

0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.360
<v Speaker 2>are connected. I'm bringing it up to emphasize that there

0:24:28.360 --> 0:24:32.400
<v Speaker 2>were very young runaways disappearing during that time in Arkansas

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:37.360
<v Speaker 2>and not really making local or national news. Chris Boyd

0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Senior and J. C Ryder, who also worked on Ramona's case,

0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.200
<v Speaker 2>were detectives with the Major Crimes Unit at the Fort

0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Smith Police Department when Leslie went missing. They were assigned

0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 2>to Leslie's case in the late eighties, when it was

0:24:49.120 --> 0:24:52.440
<v Speaker 2>one of the first major cases for that unit. Chris

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Boyd later said, back in nineteen eighty five, police didn't

0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.720
<v Speaker 2>have the forensic capabilities they have today. Back then, the

0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:04.720
<v Speaker 2>best investigators could usually hope for was fingerprints or eyewitnesses. J.

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 2>C Ryder later described Leslie's case as sad, as he

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:12.640
<v Speaker 2>said cases like that always are. A lot of people

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 2>have the same feelings about Ramona Gregory's case. Ramona's case

0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:19.960
<v Speaker 2>is from nineteen ninety, right on the edge of when

0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 2>investigators relied almost solely on old school detective work and

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:27.800
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of modern forensic testing, and they were trying

0:25:27.840 --> 0:25:30.680
<v Speaker 2>to solve the murder of a teenager whose final movements

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 2>were difficult to pin down because she was moving between places,

0:25:34.360 --> 0:25:38.120
<v Speaker 2>relying on walking and hitchhiking, and spending time with people

0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 2>who were sometimes involved in drugs, stolen property, and guns.

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 2>This does not make Ramona responsible for what happened to her,

0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.240
<v Speaker 2>but it does make her vulnerable and it makes the

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:54.560
<v Speaker 2>investigation harder. Years after Ramona's death, the case resurfaced through

0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:59.480
<v Speaker 2>something that looked unrelated, a burglary investigation involving stolen property

0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:04.240
<v Speaker 2>from salisaf Ford. By nineteen ninety two, detectives were looking

0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 2>at people connected to that burglary. It involved stolen property

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and tools, possibly including a lawnmower, which appeared on the news.

0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:15.880
<v Speaker 2>As detectives interviewed people connected to the stolen property trail,

0:26:16.360 --> 0:26:20.280
<v Speaker 2>they were pulled back toward Ramona Gregory's murder. That burglary

0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:23.600
<v Speaker 2>investigation led them into a circle of men who either

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:27.440
<v Speaker 2>knew suspects or had heard talk about Romona's case. One

0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 2>of those men was Rodney Sirett. According to police records,

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Rodney told officers that he had been in the same

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Crawford County jail cell as a man named Kenneth Dennis.

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Rodney told police that he had information about Ramona's death.

0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Rodney claim Kenneth said someone had shot a girl. According

0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:50.320
<v Speaker 2>to the records, Kenneth said that Ramona was killed because

0:26:50.360 --> 0:26:54.880
<v Speaker 2>of jealousy involving someone's son, specifically because Ramona was going

0:26:54.920 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to marry someone's son. That is a major statement if true,

0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:03.880
<v Speaker 2>jealousy involving someone's son could point back toward the relationship dynamics.

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Investigators had already heard about between Ramona's boyfriend, the boyfriend's father,

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 2>and the father's alleged sexual interest in Ramona. But jailhouse

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:16.120
<v Speaker 2>information is always complicated. People in jail may hear things.

0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:20.280
<v Speaker 2>They also may exaggerate or trade information they believe will

0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 2>get them a better deal. According to the investigative notes,

0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:27.960
<v Speaker 2>police interviewed Kenneth Dennis. The file says Dennis talked about

0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:31.360
<v Speaker 2>stolen guns and people who could sell them. But from

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 2>the notes we have, that lead did not result in

0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>an arrest. It just added another layer to the same

0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>unresolved question who killed Ramona Gregory. There are several possible directions.

0:27:43.480 --> 0:27:47.200
<v Speaker 2>In the one direction is the stranger dangerly the man

0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:49.880
<v Speaker 2>in the pickup truck that tried to sexually assault her.

0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:54.040
<v Speaker 2>She escaped that time, but it's possible if that man

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 2>saw her again, or if he was connected to where

0:27:56.560 --> 0:28:00.440
<v Speaker 2>she was walking or hitchhiking, he could be important. The

0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.400
<v Speaker 2>problem is that the description is broad. Ramona described him

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:06.600
<v Speaker 2>as a white male with short brown hair, a brown

0:28:06.720 --> 0:28:09.680
<v Speaker 2>mustache and a pickup truck in that area of Arkansas

0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:12.680
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety that could describe a lot of men.

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Another direction is the older man in our coma, her

0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:21.880
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend's father. Ramona allegedly told multiple people her boyfriend's father

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:26.440
<v Speaker 2>made sexual advances toward her. The boyfriend told police Ramona

0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:29.320
<v Speaker 2>said his dad had kept her drunk and tried to

0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:33.280
<v Speaker 2>rape her, and the boyfriend said he saw multiple twenty

0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:38.280
<v Speaker 2>five caliber guns at his father's house, But the known

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:41.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty five caliber guns that the police recovered and tested

0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:44.200
<v Speaker 2>were eliminated. Now that does not mean that the man

0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:48.560
<v Speaker 2>was cleared. It means the specific guns police tested did

0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:52.120
<v Speaker 2>not fire the bullet recovered from Romona's skull. If there

0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 2>were multiple guns, or if another gun was never recovered,

0:28:55.560 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>that question is still open. A third direction is the

0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:03.080
<v Speaker 2>stolen gun and burglary circle. Ramona and the people around

0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 2>her appear to have been connected, either directly or indirectly

0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 2>to people buying and selling stolen merchandise. Police questioned people

0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:14.400
<v Speaker 2>who knew Ramona and who had been involved in stolen property.

0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Some of the recovered guns came out of those investigations.

0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:23.160
<v Speaker 2>These salasov Ford burglary leads that happened much later suggest

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 2>people in that same circle were talking about Ramona's murder

0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 2>years later, but that does not prove they were involved.

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 2>It does show that the detectives believe the stolen property

0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and guns network around Ramona were worth exploring. A fourth

0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 2>direction is the possibility that Ramona's death could connect to

0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 2>some of these other deaths in Fort Smith. As we

0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:47.720
<v Speaker 2>said before, this is much more speculative because police have

0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 2>wondered whether some of the other cases, like Leslie Hoggs,

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:55.360
<v Speaker 2>could involve a serial killer. The circumstances in victimology may

0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:59.480
<v Speaker 2>overlap in some ways, both young female victims, both in

0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:03.720
<v Speaker 2>the Fort Smith area, but the method is not the same.

0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:09.320
<v Speaker 2>There was also another lead. Shortly after Ramona was murdered.

0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Police arrested a man on suspicion of assaulting his wife.

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 2>When they did, they found out that he was carrying

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 2>newspaper clippings of Ramona's murder. He said that he was

0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:23.280
<v Speaker 2>carrying those clippings because Ramona had been his girlfriend, which

0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.400
<v Speaker 2>police said she had not, so they thought that was strange.

0:30:27.040 --> 0:30:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Then police talked to Cassie. They found out that both

0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:33.440
<v Speaker 2>she and Ramona knew this guy. Cassie said that he

0:30:33.480 --> 0:30:35.840
<v Speaker 2>had asked Ramona out in the past and that Ramona

0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 2>always said no. Then, on New Year's Eve, after Ramona's murder,

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Cassie saw this guy at a party and while she

0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 2>was in a bathroom, he grabbed her purse, ransacked it,

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:51.160
<v Speaker 2>and stole the newspaper clippings mentioning Ramona, and then left

0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:55.000
<v Speaker 2>the party with the newspaper clippings. This man's name was

0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>also redacted. So who was this guy? Was this just

0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>a person with a bizarre fixation, or could this be

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:06.680
<v Speaker 2>a possible suspect? In my opinion, the location where Ramona's

0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.760
<v Speaker 2>body was found would seem to be extremely important here

0:31:10.240 --> 0:31:13.240
<v Speaker 2>because you have a situation where the gate was locked

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:15.680
<v Speaker 2>and there was only one person who had the key.

0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Jim the caretaker, told police that the fire brake was

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:22.920
<v Speaker 2>cut months earlier, which would mean that that area was

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:26.920
<v Speaker 2>regularly inspected, which would also seem to narrow the window

0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:29.920
<v Speaker 2>of time when it was possible for Ramona to be

0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:35.600
<v Speaker 2>killed and dumped. Was that gate really inaccessible to anyone

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:39.480
<v Speaker 2>else or could the killer have had access somehow? Could

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.360
<v Speaker 2>he have climbed over the fence if the gate was

0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:44.200
<v Speaker 2>locked to put her there, and if so, why would

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 2>he bother to do that? And because Ramona's clothes were

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:52.920
<v Speaker 2>found elsewhere, investigators also had to consider multiple scenes the

0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:55.960
<v Speaker 2>place where the body was found, the railroad track, area

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:59.200
<v Speaker 2>where the clothing was found, and wherever Ramona was last

0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 2>alive That could span a massive area including Grand Avenue,

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Rolling ar Coma, a private house, a vehicle, or somewhere

0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:13.440
<v Speaker 2>else entirely were all the people named in the reports

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:16.840
<v Speaker 2>ever fully ruled out? Are any of them still alive?

0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 2>A lot of the names in this case report are redacted,

0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 2>but I'm hoping if someone out there is listening, they

0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:28.040
<v Speaker 2>may recognize the circumstances around this case, and maybe someone

0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 2>who knew Ramona will come forward. Are there surviving witnesses

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 2>who were teenagers or young adults in Fort Smith, Roland,

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:37.960
<v Speaker 2>ar Coma or Van Buren in nineteen ninety who may

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:40.360
<v Speaker 2>have known something about this case but who never spoke

0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 2>to police. It's been thirty six years and police are

0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:49.640
<v Speaker 2>releasing the case fall even with all of the black

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:52.960
<v Speaker 2>lines in it, I really believe that this case can

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:58.000
<v Speaker 2>and should be reinvestigated. Ramona was not just a runaway.

0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 2>She was somebody's child and someone got away with killing her,

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:04.960
<v Speaker 2>someone who may have gone on to kill again and

0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:10.280
<v Speaker 2>could still be out there somewhere. So what happens next today?

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:14.120
<v Speaker 2>If this case were to be reopened, investigators could start

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:17.080
<v Speaker 2>with the evidence. They could retest Ramona's clothing if it

0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 2>still exists and it's an evidence. They could review the

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 2>roology testing and see if there is any more more

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:26.600
<v Speaker 2>modern testing that could be done, maybe get new DNA

0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:30.440
<v Speaker 2>testing to reexamine the hair evidence. They could grab those

0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:34.200
<v Speaker 2>old school case falls, some written in chicken scratch handwriting,

0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:38.440
<v Speaker 2>and scrutinize, digitize and compare every single statement and build

0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:42.000
<v Speaker 2>a better timeline because there are still a lot of

0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:45.920
<v Speaker 2>gaps of time between February fourth, the last known family sighting,

0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:50.560
<v Speaker 2>and when Ramona disappeared. They could also retrack every twenty

0:33:50.560 --> 0:33:53.120
<v Speaker 2>five caliber gun that was mentioned in this case file

0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and look at the men who were connected to them.

0:33:57.120 --> 0:34:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Most crucially, they could take second looks at the two

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.480
<v Speaker 2>men who Ramona was known to have conflicts with shortly

0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 2>before her death. There was the guy in the pickup truck,

0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:10.880
<v Speaker 2>but in my opinion, even more crucially, her boyfriend's dad

0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:15.720
<v Speaker 2>deep in the case file. I found another reference to

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:19.720
<v Speaker 2>her boyfriend's dad. Someone else told police that they saw

0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Ramona in the parking lot outside her sister's apartment right

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:27.600
<v Speaker 2>before she went missing. Ramona told this person that she

0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:30.280
<v Speaker 2>was headed to her aunt's house, then to shower and

0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:33.680
<v Speaker 2>go out from there to Grand Avenue, and Ramona said

0:34:33.720 --> 0:34:36.480
<v Speaker 2>something else. She said that she was headed to get

0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:39.720
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars that she was owed for cleaning from her

0:34:39.720 --> 0:34:43.360
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend's dad. That was the last time that this person

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:48.280
<v Speaker 2>vers saw Ramona. In my opinion, police should ask the

0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:52.480
<v Speaker 2>same question J. C Ryder asked in nineteen ninety, who

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:58.920
<v Speaker 2>remembers Ramona Gregory. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone

0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:02.360
<v Speaker 2>Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of

0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:05.440
<v Speaker 2>School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated

0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:09.760
<v Speaker 2>by me Katherine Townsend and produced by Etily's Perez Special

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:12.640
<v Speaker 2>thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance and Sarah

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Burns for legal review. Noah Camer mixed and scored this episode.

0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song is by Bence A Lee. Executive producers

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:23.880
<v Speaker 2>are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and L. C. Crowley. Listen

0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:26.840
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<v Speaker 2>Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested

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