1
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,960
Speaker 1: We are back with a new episode of Earning Their Stripes,

2
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,800
Speaker 1: the Fish Stripes podcast show dedicated to Miami Marlins prospects.

3
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm Eli Susman. My special guest for this show needs

4
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,199
Speaker 1: no introduction, but I'll give him a brief one. Anyway.

5
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,240
Speaker 1: If you followed MLB prospects at all over the last

6
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,599
Speaker 1: decade and a half, then I'm sure you're familiar with

7
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 1: Keith law who is a longtime ESPN writer now as

8
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 1: senior baseball writer for The Athletic. He's the author of

9
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,959
Speaker 1: Smart Baseball in The Inside Game, both of which are

10
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,120
Speaker 1: available this holiday season wherever books are sold. I'm sure

11
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: Keith woul appreciate if you guys picked up a copy

12
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: or two of each of those. Keith, I know you

13
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: have a lot on your plate, both baseball related and otherwise,

14
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: so I greatlypreciate you'd taking some time to hop on

15
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 1: with me.

16
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 2: We'll sure thing. I'm not cooking tonight. My wife is

17
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,919
Speaker 2: cooking tonight, so I have a little more time. Tomorrow

18
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 2: would have been tough, though, tomorrow's my night's cook.

19
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,960
Speaker 1: So I wanted to start with something that rewinding back

20
00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 1: to the summer when I was reading you online, on

21
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,520
Speaker 1: the athletic You made a pretty bold statement in there

22
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 1: that the Marlin system hasn't looked this good their form

23
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,360
Speaker 1: system at any point in the franchise's history. Could you

24
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 1: give us just the overview of why you're that bullish

25
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:28,120
Speaker 1: on what they have coming.

26
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 2: So it's two things, right, I was being a little

27
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,040
Speaker 2: cheeky about it because the Marlin system has generally never

28
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,320
Speaker 2: looked good, right, I mean, I think that's pretty true.

29
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 2: Maybe in the first year or two it had a moment,

30
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 2: but I you know, certainly since I started ranking systems

31
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 2: and writing up prospects in two thousand and six, two

32
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 2: thousand and seven, it's never looked this good. And so

33
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 2: that was a way of praising the system but also

34
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 2: kind of mocking their history a little bit like this,

35
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,280
Speaker 2: they've just never cared, right, the all they cared about

36
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 2: was being cheap. And now that they've got an ownership

37
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 2: group in a front off that and frankly, I've made

38
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 2: a lot of changes throughout that front office that they

39
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,520
Speaker 2: really cared about building a farm system. The mandate I

40
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,639
Speaker 2: think was probably to build a better farm system. Hey

41
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 2: guess what, they built a good farm system, like a

42
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 2: really good, deep interesting farm system. So not only would

43
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,400
Speaker 2: I say this is probably the best farm system that

44
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 2: they've ever had, I would also say that it's probably

45
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 2: the most interesting in terms of the guys to talk

46
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,760
Speaker 2: about too. It's not just a bunch of performance guys.

47
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,560
Speaker 2: They have a good mix of some performance guys and

48
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,959
Speaker 2: some athletes too, so there's upside as well.

49
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: Right, well, you mentioned performance guys. In terms of that,

50
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody could possibly be doing more at

51
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: this very moment than JJ Blede. As we're recording this,

52
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 1: he's one for three today, so that drops his Arizona

53
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,400
Speaker 1: Fall League batting average from four hundred to three ninety six.

54
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 1: A little bit of a slump, but he So he's

55
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 1: interesting because for the regular season he was I think

56
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 1: a disappointment in most people's opinions at Double A, and

57
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: but now in the Arizona Fall League absolutely tearing it up.

58
00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: About midway through that league. You were out in the

59
00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 1: desert for a few days, I know, But did you

60
00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: get a chance to see JJ when you were out there?

61
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 2: And I saw one game of him, so not enough

62
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,679
Speaker 2: to make a judgment. He was pretty awful this year.

63
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,639
Speaker 2: You could defend him by pointing out that he went

64
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,400
Speaker 2: right to double A and that's something there's you know,

65
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 2: you would not be wrong to say, hey, that might

66
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: be a mitigating factor here. But at the same time,

67
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,639
Speaker 2: that's pretty inexcusable performance for a guy who was supposed

68
00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 2: to be kind of this polished and who was twenty three. Right,

69
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 2: he did play a little bit in high A two

70
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 2: years ago, so I would didn't get a full season.

71
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 2: This isn't like a guy who just came straight out

72
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 2: of college, right. I have a hard time getting around

73
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 2: what went wrong this season, and I do think that

74
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 2: it comes back to, you know, we've had a lot

75
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,000
Speaker 2: of concerns about his swing going back to college. There

76
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 2: is kind of a hitch in it. It is probably

77
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,680
Speaker 2: going to be difficult for him to heat. And so

78
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 2: I do think it's fair to look at the body

79
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 2: of work in the season and say, hey, maybe he's

80
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 2: maybe he's not as good as we thought he was.

81
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,640
Speaker 2: And I say we I'm not just picking on the

82
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 2: Marlins here. I was part of the same industry that

83
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 2: praised this guy.

84
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: Right, and does the fall league so far? I mean,

85
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 1: is there anything he could possibly do over these next

86
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 1: couple of weeks that would like meaningfully change the way

87
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 1: that you and other people should.

88
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 2: Like project down. No, and that's there's two reasons for that.

89
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,720
Speaker 2: One is just that he's Fall league fall ye numbers.

90
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,000
Speaker 2: It's an offense oriented lea to begin with. They're playing

91
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 2: at some slight altitude out there. Generally fall league numbers

92
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 2: are very good and they're not that predictive. Unfortunately this year,

93
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 2: especially though pitching is bad, which really it was not

94
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 2: great when I was out there, and I think Eric

95
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 2: Longenhagen just tweeted something yesterday, Hey, please send arms, any

96
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 2: arms we can possibly get. It's just it's a bad

97
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,839
Speaker 2: league this year. And that's not to say that there's

98
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,040
Speaker 2: anything wrong with a sending a player out there or

99
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 2: be in performing well. Be better to perform well against

100
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 2: bad competition than to perform poorly. And great for them

101
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 2: to get that out bats and to get the exposure

102
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,599
Speaker 2: and for they's great for other scouts to see them.

103
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 2: I see lots of good reasons for him to be

104
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,040
Speaker 2: out there. But I would not look at this performance

105
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:14,520
Speaker 2: and say that you feel like maybe this counteracted any

106
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 2: of what happened during the regular season.

107
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 1: Well outside of bludet and putting aside the performance, the

108
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: Marlins actually at the moment, they have nine players out

109
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 1: there with Will Banfield, Justin Evans, Evan Federer, Troy Johnston,

110
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 1: Cameron Meisner, Josh Simpson, Jeffrey Yan and then they as

111
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: an injury substitute, they send over Zach King, the left

112
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 1: hander as well. Out of that group, is there anybody

113
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 1: that you're particularly interested in or feel optimistic about moving from?

114
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,040
Speaker 2: Not? Really the best prospects in their system were largely

115
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,839
Speaker 2: guys who just weren't sent to the Fall League, which

116
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,359
Speaker 2: you know, that's that's fine. They're making choices. A lot

117
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 2: of guys were probably worn down by the end of

118
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 2: the year, or maybe you know, they just hit some

119
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 2: kind of workload target, or maybe they just marvelless just decided,

120
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 2: all right, it's nothing less else for those guys to

121
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,599
Speaker 2: work on, so we're going to send them home. Some

122
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,200
Speaker 2: teams take the Fall League a lot more seriously than

123
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 2: other teams do. Some teams you view it as extremely,

124
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,960
Speaker 2: you know, extremely valuable. They always want to send their

125
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 2: players out there if possible, and some teams look at

126
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 2: it as just kind of a waste of time. We

127
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,360
Speaker 2: don't want to send guys out there because because we can't,

128
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 2: we don't have the same kind of control over development

129
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 2: of players there. You have one coach on the coaching

130
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 2: staff was your own guy. Well, if you have a hit,

131
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 2: if you were assigned to send a hitting coach out there,

132
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,799
Speaker 2: are you less willing to send some of your pitchers

133
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,120
Speaker 2: out there because they don't get to work with one

134
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 2: of your own coaches. That's true of some teams. I

135
00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,320
Speaker 2: don't want to overgeneralize. I don't know if that's specifically

136
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,040
Speaker 2: true of the Marlins, but that's definitely a philosophical divide

137
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 2: between certain teams and how they view the.

138
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: Fall League, right. I know earlier this season you had

139
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,599
Speaker 1: your annual call them out about players that you wanted

140
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,080
Speaker 1: to see in person with each MLB organization, and for

141
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 1: the Marlins, Payden Burdick was that guy, same draft class

142
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 1: as JJ Blday, just a couple of rounds later and

143
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,800
Speaker 1: he ended up being teammates with Blade throughout this season.

144
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: Did you get your chance to that you see Burdick

145
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:03,360
Speaker 1: in person?

146
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 2: Still never seen him. Unfortunate, you know, because of the pandemic,

147
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 2: I've really limited my travel this year. I only flew

148
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 2: one two three times for work this entire year. That

149
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 2: would normally be like twelve or more times. I flew

150
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 2: once to Vanderbilt, once to the Future's game, and then

151
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 2: Fall League. And that's going to be it. Actually, whether

152
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 2: the Winter meetings happen or not, I don't think they're

153
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 2: going to happen for a lot of reasons. I am

154
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 2: not going to Florida right now. I might be a

155
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 2: long time. I'm certainly not going to Florida to be

156
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,320
Speaker 2: indoors right now. Maybe if we were outside, I'll go

157
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,320
Speaker 2: out in the spring, that's fine, But I am not

158
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 2: going to go sit inside.

159
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: Right But speaking of Burdick, I was curious because he

160
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 1: is he is a college outfielder around the same age

161
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 1: as Blu Day, but otherwise they do have some pretty

162
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:51,040
Speaker 1: distinct differences in their style play, and even their timeline

163
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 1: is a little bit different now with Burdick kind of

164
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: seemingly closer to debuting than blu Day. Do you feel

165
00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 1: strongly one way or the other about which of those

166
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 1: two out fielders is more likely to be in everyday

167
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 1: regular at the next level.

168
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know that right now. If you were probably

169
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 2: betting you, you might say neither. And I know that's

170
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 2: not the answer anybody wants to hear. But Neither of

171
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,640
Speaker 2: these guys hit much at all in double A. You know,

172
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 2: in Burdick's case, there was lots of the good secondary stuff, right,

173
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 2: he drew a lot of walks, and he hit for

174
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 2: power enough power, I would say, you know, you hope

175
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,920
Speaker 2: there's more power it gets another year too older. But

176
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 2: whereas But they didn't even do that, right, But neither

177
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 2: of these guys hit for much average, and neither had

178
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 2: the contact rate that you want to see for guys

179
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:41,079
Speaker 2: their age pedigree for that level. It's a little disappointing.

180
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 2: And I would say, if you're trying to plot out,

181
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,079
Speaker 2: you're thinking about the possible outcomes for these guys, like, yes,

182
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 2: everyday player is still within the range of possibilities. Star

183
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 2: is even still within the range of possibilities, And by

184
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,319
Speaker 2: no means ruling that out for either of these guys.

185
00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,719
Speaker 2: But we're just thinking probabilities, right, A guy who hit

186
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 2: in Burdock's case two twenty four total between double A

187
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 2: and triple A with lots of walks, a strong on

188
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 2: base percentage, strong slugging percentage. But still that's we pushed

189
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,800
Speaker 2: out one hundred and fifty times in about five hundred

190
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,360
Speaker 2: play appearances, it's a lot. That's kind of hard to

191
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,199
Speaker 2: see that guy becoming an everyday player in the big

192
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 2: leagues unless there's a change, right, and players do change

193
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,000
Speaker 2: all the time. And the Marlins this is not the

194
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 2: Marlins of five years ago, where players, you know, I

195
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 2: think it would be fair for a Marlins fan to

196
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 2: have been frustrated a couple of years ago to say, hey, guys,

197
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,319
Speaker 2: not only have we not drafted that well, but guys

198
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 2: also don't get better in our system. I don't think

199
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,120
Speaker 2: that's true anymore. I think guys are getting better in

200
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,079
Speaker 2: the Marlins system. So maybe one or both of these

201
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 2: guys does make some kind of adjustment to improve. But

202
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 2: right now, based on age performance, what we know about

203
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,480
Speaker 2: these players, they are probably more likely than not to

204
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,559
Speaker 2: end up less than an average everyday player in the majors,

205
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 2: and that would be disappointing, right.

206
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 1: One wrinkle that was thrown into it with both of

207
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 1: those guys actually is they played a lot of center

208
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: fields this year, and I believe verdict even more than

209
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 1: the day. But what probably at first glance, you don't

210
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 1: think either them will stick at that position in the

211
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: majors or even be able to think.

212
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: The day day, I would say no Burdick at second hand,

213
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,440
Speaker 2: but I would give him more a chance, more of

214
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 2: a chance to do that based on what I've heard

215
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,199
Speaker 2: from others. Also, you know, we have seen some guys

216
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 2: who are not particularly elite runners turn into decent center fielders,

217
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,920
Speaker 2: So I try to be more open minded now. I

218
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,199
Speaker 2: think positioning makes a big difference. I think, you know

219
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 2: a lot of the time, it's we got to see

220
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 2: a guy out there. He's not fast enough to automatically

221
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 2: put him in center, but you see how he reacts

222
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 2: on place with his first step, like some guys do.

223
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: Surprise us we day, though we've seen him a couple

224
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 2: times now, going back to college, I'd be really surprised.

225
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 2: There is some minimum threshold of foot speed I think

226
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 2: you have to reach to be an average defensive center

227
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 2: fielder in the big leagues. I don't think he reaches

228
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 2: it right.

229
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 1: We're talking with Keith Law of the Athletic about all

230
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 1: things Marlin's prospects. One guy that I know you were

231
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: particularly high on, at least earlier this year, even prior

232
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,199
Speaker 1: to this year, was Edward Cabrera, who maybe is major

233
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 1: league debut in late August. They stuck in the rotation

234
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,360
Speaker 1: down the stretch in his debut, you know, his first

235
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 1: six innings was some of the most thrilling six endings

236
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 1: of Marlin season because they had so much riding on

237
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,200
Speaker 1: his expectations and he seemed to translate that pretty quickly.

238
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,559
Speaker 1: And then kind of from that point forward in terms

239
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,960
Speaker 1: of the results, they just weren't there at all walking

240
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: a million guys. And some of their underlying things that

241
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,760
Speaker 1: I'll bring up in a minute about him is how

242
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,560
Speaker 1: much how much do you take away from what was

243
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,079
Speaker 1: was his first six seven starts in the big leagues

244
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: and how it was kind of just ineffective.

245
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 2: Not very much like you said, it was his first

246
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 2: couple of starts. He's only twenty three. He'd missed some

247
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 2: time this year, obviously, you know what nine months, seven

248
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: or eight months ago, we were worried about how much

249
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 2: he might even pitch this year, if at all so.

250
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,560
Speaker 2: And honestly, the jump from this would apply pitchers and

251
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,720
Speaker 2: to position players. The jump from the miners to the majors,

252
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 2: even from Triple A the majors now feels like it

253
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 2: is as large as it's ever been. I think the

254
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 2: pandemic exacer exacerbated that. I just think the caliber of

255
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 2: at the major leagues keeps increasing too, and it creates

256
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 2: more of a gap. So when a guy jumps to

257
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 2: the Major, the guy with this kind of ability to

258
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,080
Speaker 2: jump to the Major struggles a little bit right away.

259
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,480
Speaker 2: It's okay, I don't get worried about it. It's only

260
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,839
Speaker 2: twenty six innings. It's only seven starts now. If he

261
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 2: has thirty starts next year and walks, I mean, you

262
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,959
Speaker 2: can't even extrapolate that walk rate, right, he would be

263
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 2: in the minors. He keeps walking guys at this rate.

264
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 2: But if this is what he does in May June

265
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,000
Speaker 2: next year, then I would probably say, Okay, maybe we

266
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,679
Speaker 2: need to ring evaluate, or maybe he just needs to

267
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,560
Speaker 2: change some things right develop this guy's continue to develop

268
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,439
Speaker 2: in the major leagues. I am not particularly worried about him, certainly,

269
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,199
Speaker 2: no more than I would any starting pitcher who makes

270
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 2: the jump to the big leagues. Here though, he gets

271
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 2: the strike out of Nimo to start his night, and

272
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 2: there's one away, No, certainly take it a little bit

273
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 2: of chase this ball off the outside edge at ninety

274
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 2: eight miles an hour. You know, I thought it was

275
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 2: too close to take.

276
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 1: One particular thing that stood out to me about him

277
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,080
Speaker 1: is this change up that I know you've brought up

278
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 1: in the past, had the potential to be an incredible

279
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,240
Speaker 1: pitch at the major league level, and then this small

280
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 1: sample at least you know that was actually the cause

281
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: of a lot of his issues. For the six home

282
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 1: runs that he allowed were on changeups, and kind of

283
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 1: as advertised, it is a very firm changeup and a

284
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,040
Speaker 1: very fast one where it's only like four or five

285
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 1: miles per hour of a differential and V low between

286
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: that and his fastball. And again the bottom line results

287
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,679
Speaker 1: weren't great. He was getting some without it, but not

288
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,360
Speaker 1: like realize a put away pitch. I was wondering if

289
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,839
Speaker 1: you could just speak more all about like that particular

290
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 1: type of changeup that he has, because it is unusual

291
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,160
Speaker 1: to throw it with that small of a v low

292
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,920
Speaker 1: gap between it in his heater, and whether that actually

293
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:40,760
Speaker 1: will be successful in the major ya.

294
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 2: I think people get a little obsessed with this idea.

295
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 2: There's there was I know on baseball twitters. If it's

296
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 2: not ten miles an hour separation, then it's no good.

297
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 2: I mean, but have we not learned that we got

298
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 2: to get rid of hard and fast rules like that,

299
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 2: like there are there are a few that are true.

300
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 2: If you're a right handed pitcher and you don't throw

301
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 2: at least eighty eight miles an hour, you probably are

302
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,960
Speaker 2: not a big leaker. There are some like you must

303
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,959
Speaker 2: be as tall as this sign to attack the city. Right,

304
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,960
Speaker 2: there's some barriers to entry that do actually exist. But

305
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 2: you know what, if this were a splitter, a true

306
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,360
Speaker 2: splitter and not a change up, we wouldn't say that. Well,

307
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,319
Speaker 2: what if it functions like a splitter, if the hitters

308
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 2: are deceived out of his hand when it comes out

309
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 2: of his hand, and if it has a movement like

310
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 2: a splitter, But it's technically a change up. So what

311
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 2: nomenclature is in what matters, right, What matters is how

312
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 2: our hitters reacting to it. And when you saw hitters

313
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 2: in the miners at least again, the gup between the

314
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,320
Speaker 2: majors and the miners is as large as ever hitters

315
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 2: and the miners had no shot at that pitch. I

316
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 2: wonder it was he. You always wonder was he telegraphing

317
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 2: it somehow? Was he using it? Maybe accounts that hitters

318
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 2: felt pretty confident that he was going to be throwing

319
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 2: the change up, and so they had an idea of

320
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 2: what he was throwing. It is the pitch that is

321
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,560
Speaker 2: ultimately going to make or break him, right, that pitch

322
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 2: needs to be more effective next year for him to

323
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 2: turn into a number one or number two starter, And

324
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,480
Speaker 2: I think he could be a number one starter. The

325
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 2: changeup is going to be a huge part of that though.

326
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 2: And if the change up is not a plus plus

327
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 2: pitch for him, then he's just not that he's something else.

328
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 2: He may still be a starter, but that is the

329
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 2: pitch that could absolutely elevate him into the upper echelon

330
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 2: of right handed starters.

331
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 1: And do you have to like the Marlins track record

332
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 1: like in that particular area, right and teaching guy's change ups,

333
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: helping them improve change ups. I mean, Sandy al Contra

334
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 1: is a guy that at least locally, they like to

335
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 1: draw comparisons between him and Edward Cabrera in some like

336
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 1: just some very basic ways. But also that Sandy this year,

337
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,360
Speaker 1: like his changeup improved more so than ever before, and

338
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he's his peripherals kind of take

339
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 1: off with it to back up what people already thought

340
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:29,960
Speaker 1: he was capable of.

341
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I went back several weeks ago, was

342
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 2: looking back at I had put a Countra on my

343
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 2: top one hundred one year when he was still with

344
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 2: the Cardinals, and it was a bit of a reach.

345
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 2: But this guy's huge. He's ninety six to two hundred.

346
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 2: He can clearly spin the breaking ball enough, and he

347
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 2: was pretty young. It's like there's enough raw material there

348
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,240
Speaker 2: people can't see. Right, I'm gesturing wildly here, that's enough

349
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 2: of a starter package, right that that should it should

350
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 2: be enough to say, hey, this guy's got some above

351
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 2: average maybe maybe you know better than that upside as

352
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,080
Speaker 2: a potential starter. But I was forecasting too, I was

353
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,280
Speaker 2: projecting on development of several of the secondary pitches. And

354
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 2: it was really it was sort of made me feel

355
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 2: good to see, yeah, that's exactly what happened, and that's

356
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 2: what he needed. Good on the Marlins, by the way,

357
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 2: for doing that, For taking a guy who's I will say,

358
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 2: when he was still a prospect, his pitching philosophy was

359
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 2: just like hard, hard, harder to see him add a

360
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 2: pitch that was you know, that's a field pitch. That's

361
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 2: a soft pitch. It can require some finesse to see

362
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 2: him do that. It is the I think, kind of

363
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 2: the last major stage in his evolution from thrower but

364
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 2: one who obviously had upsides a pitcher to somebody who's

365
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 2: a real pitcher. Now like he has developed as a

366
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 2: complete pitcher, he understands the craft more and you could

367
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 2: just see it in the in the stuff and in

368
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:49,920
Speaker 2: the results.

369
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,200
Speaker 1: And I mean he is the one particular guy that

370
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 1: at least in our community at FIST Trives, people are

371
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 1: very eager to hopefully sign him to a contract extension

372
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: before he gets too expensive and before only only three

373
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: years until free agency, and they're ready to get a

374
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 1: little nervous because he is, in a lot of ways

375
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,479
Speaker 1: a really great example for their next waves of pitching

376
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 1: talent if you go really deep into the farm system

377
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 1: at least a couple of years away. Really, the biggest

378
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: breakout star of this organization would have to be Uri Perez,

379
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,399
Speaker 1: who spent most of this year in Low A, but

380
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,239
Speaker 1: was surprised that even started at full season ball as

381
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old, he spent his entire season that

382
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 1: as an eighteen year old.

383
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:29,639
Speaker 2: He finished that high A.

384
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 1: The stats are ridiculous and I'm me personally, I'm in

385
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,119
Speaker 1: a bubble where I don't pay a whole lot of

386
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: close attention to guys across all other MLB systems. But

387
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 1: I'm just struggling to find comps for somebody of his

388
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,199
Speaker 1: massive size, you know, six' eight even six' nine with,

389
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 1: mid nineties, be low with, good control and doing it

390
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 1: consistently throughout the season at. Age eighteen is there anybody

391
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 1: else like like him across the miners?

392
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,679
Speaker 2: RIGHT now, I mean i think this is not a.

393
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,440
Speaker 2: Good name feel free to turn me off after, Saying

394
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 2: this but, You Know forrest whitley was kind of like

395
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,640
Speaker 2: this really huge guy who threw hard and had, multiple

396
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,200
Speaker 2: Pitches which. Yuri does he's got a really good, breaking

397
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 2: BALL and i think the change up is probably going to.

398
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 2: Get there and it's a little bit Of a polatan

399
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 2: split against lefties, this year it was mostly in the.

400
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 2: Power department it's not enough to make, me, CONCERNED yet

401
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 2: i think it's fair to call him a real three.

402
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,400
Speaker 2: Pitch guy, and Look until whitley, got hurt he looked

403
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,439
Speaker 2: like he was the best pitching prospect. In BASEBALL so

404
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,440
Speaker 2: i would think of it more rather than think About

405
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,800
Speaker 2: where whitley, Is today like What was whitley after his

406
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 2: first year in. THE minors I think peiz is actually

407
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,160
Speaker 2: even taller than he is the wory you always have when,

408
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 2: ANY pictures i would say six six. And above and

409
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,919
Speaker 2: this is honestly just some anecdotal evidence from speaking to

410
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 2: pitchers that. Call too they often talk about how much

411
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 2: trouble they had repeat learning to repeat. Their delivery it

412
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 2: is like not even, just coordination but just basic. BODY

413
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,160
Speaker 2: control i remember Working with BEN McDonald's i think is six'

414
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 2: nine and he's just, really freaking Tall Like. The joe

415
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,800
Speaker 2: goes it's not. EVEN a joke i would sit next

416
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 2: to him on THE set at espn and his chair

417
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 2: would be all the way down in mine would be all.

418
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: The WAY up and i still wasn't as tall, As

419
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 2: he was so that gives you some sense of just how.

420
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,439
Speaker 2: Big he was and he said it wasn't until he

421
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 2: was probably twenty three or twenty four they finally felt

422
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 2: like he had everything working. The right way and, unfortunately

423
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,880
Speaker 2: for him, by that point his shoulder was like hamburger

424
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,119
Speaker 2: me and his career was kind of over. Before it

425
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 2: started but don't be Surprised then in, peiz his, case

426
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: he Is, oh my god. HE'S still eighteen i actually thought.

427
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 2: He was nineteen it might be a. Couple of years

428
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: there might be a few years where the command and

429
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 2: control are just not what you want, Them to be.

430
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: AND that's fine i feel like the developmental challenges for

431
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 2: somebody like, him his size it's keeping him healthy and

432
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: just working on very basic things like coordination and body

433
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 2: controls that he's already got. The stuff right HE'S up

434
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: to i think ninety. Seven or so you're not. Worried

435
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 2: about stuff i'm not. Worried about stuff it's keep him

436
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: healthy and just let him work on man very. Slowly

437
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: gradual progress they didn't have him throw that many, innings

438
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 2: This year and i'm sure a lot, of it was,

439
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 2: oh my god this guy could be at the top

440
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 2: of rotation. At some point wrap him, in, Bubble wrap

441
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 2: right do whatever we can do to. Keep him healthy

442
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 2: want him to pitch a little bit so, he gets

443
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 2: better but not so much that you ever put his.

444
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 2: Arm at risk and there are a lot of people

445
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 2: in baseball who believe the very very tall pitchers do get.

446
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 2: HURT more often i don't think we have enough evidence,

447
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: to SAY that or i don't think, he's tall enough

448
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: he's not six' ten right where suddenly your sample size

449
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 2: starts to, drop to you know it's. Three or four

450
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 2: guys i'm, not WORRIED like that but i can understand

451
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 2: them deciding we're going to take the most cautious possible,

452
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 2: path with this guy recognizing his real value may come

453
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 2: when he's may not come. UNTIL he's twenty.

454
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: Two i would say over, the last calendar year For

455
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: looking at, last november until now there have not been

456
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: a whole lot of Celebratory. Moments for the marlins the

457
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 1: one that sticks out Is The hiring of kim a.

458
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: Like that one moment you knew, it at the time

459
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 1: how significant it was and how really the entire organization.

460
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: Was on a cloud for there was a nice honeymoon

461
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 1: with the fact that they made that higher when they

462
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 1: did and they had an. Opportunity to do so but,

463
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 1: as that off season, her first off season it was

464
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: most of an off season, with her in charge went

465
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: on myself and others were kind of critical of how

466
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,239
Speaker 1: conservative the team was and some of, the decisions they

467
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: made and that kind of like carried, into the regular

468
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: season where just overall as a front office it was

469
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: it was not really very impressive with the way that

470
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: they handled on variety of fronts in like progressing in

471
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 1: this rebuild. A little bit further what's complicated is that

472
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 1: there are other voices in that front, office aside From Her,

473
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: such AS. Derek jeter the ceo some of the vps

474
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 1: as well Have Still.

475
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 2: Love a gary denboats got a lot of. Juice In

476
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 2: that Organization and i've known gary for a LONG time

477
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: and and i know a lot of people, have worked

478
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: with him and my understanding is he's got a lot

479
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 2: of influence there and he has A Direct. LINE to

480
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 2: derek chief i hope that does not End. UP undermining

481
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,479
Speaker 2: kim ang i don't really know the dynamics of their,

482
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: front office right now BUT it's, SOMETHING that i think

483
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: i think everyone should be aware of that this is

484
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: a possibility and we'll see how well this front. Office

485
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: functions going forward they're doing so many, good things, RIGHT

486
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: now you know i hate to even bring up the

487
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: possibility of, dysfunction at some point but eventually they're going

488
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: to have to. Start Making harder decisions right it's, easy

489
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 2: to just say just get, all the prospects right collect

490
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 2: all the good young. Players we possibly can at some

491
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: point that leads to tough Decisions On extending a sandiel

492
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 2: contra or if you can't do you? Do You trade

493
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 2: him which i'm sure nobody. Wants to think about but

494
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 2: is that that's a good example of a tough decision

495
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: this franchise is going to have. To face fairly soon

496
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: you're also eventually going to have situations where you have

497
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: multiple players vuying for playing time. At just one position

498
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: will they be able to, Come to a consensus will they?

499
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: Have A unified voice will kim ng ultimately be the

500
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: one who makes those decisions? As she? Should, BE you hope. So.

501
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 2: I Really hope so for kim's sake and, for the

502
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: organization's sake we'll just have.

503
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: To, win and see yeah and a whole lot coming

504
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: up for this offseason where kind of by default they

505
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: have to do something just because more and the big

506
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: thing that they did is they just they let a,

507
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 1: Lot of contracts expire they made some trades at this point,

508
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 1: where they have room they have financial flexibility to do,

509
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: things this off season. Just like last year are you

510
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: handling your free agent rankings for? The athletic this?

511
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 2: Year are those gay they will be up Two Days after.

512
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 2: The world SERIES ends you and I. Are talking, on

513
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: tuesday in theory they Could. Be up on thursday other

514
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: the rest They'll. Be up on friday we're down. To

515
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 2: just two choices, they're already done, filed ready to roll

516
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: WHICH is and then i was very glad when the

517
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 2: astro sort of gave me another day of breathing room

518
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: too if we. Have, to, change anything so yeah they will. Be, up,

519
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: THIS week.

520
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: Well so i imagine you have most of, that list

521
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: put together in, most of those names and, like the

522
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: right ballpark who are the players there that you think

523
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: are Top. Priorities for the marvels there should be top

524
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 1: priority ones that are a reasonable fit position wise and

525
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: that fit with that. Timeline with the organization if you had,

526
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: some influence over that who makes the most sense among

527
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: those those players near the.

528
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: Top of the list if they've decided, this really you

529
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 2: know this comes to this is, another. Major organizational Decision Right.

530
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: WHAT is jazz chisholm i Am, EXTREMELY high on jazz

531
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 2: i have been for KIND of forever. AND i remain

532
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: so i think there is way more to. COME for

533
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: that guy i think he's just going. TO keep getting

534
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 2: better i think his timetable may just be a little

535
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: bit different from most players because he kind of came

536
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 2: to the, sport, a little young sorry a. Little older

537
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: than some he did not he. Was kind of green

538
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: THAT was the way. I was looking for, he has

539
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: less experience especially playing at a high, level than most

540
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: players particularly just comparing him, to other international Players because

541
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 2: baseball in obahamas is not what It Is in The.

542
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 2: Dominican REPUBLIC or venezuela and i think we tend to

543
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 2: with A lot, of the bahamian prospects we expect more

544
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: from them at an age where we should. Be accepting, they,

545
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: are you know, hey he's actually twenty but it's like he's.

546
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: Eighteen in baseball years and that's going to be true

547
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: of a. Lot of these Guys So what is jazz

548
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: and especially? Is he a shortstop because if they've decided

549
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: he's going to be a second baseman, OR play somewhere

550
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: else i certainly think he could play center. Field with

551
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: his speed but if, he's not a shortstop then they

552
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: should probably be in on the shortstop market because this

553
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: is a really good free. Agent class of shortstops they

554
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: don't necessarily have to. Get the, best One Big. SPOILER

555
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: it's carlos kraa i don't. THINK that surprizes anybody i

556
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: think he's the best free agent on. The market this? Winter,

557
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 2: Could they sure absolutely it would be freaking awesome if,

558
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: they Got That guy a Puerto Rican superstar in south

559
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: florida who's a stone's throw from. Where, he grew up.

560
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely sign me up there's gonna be a lot. OF

561
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: competition for him a lot of people think He. Ends

562
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 2: up in detroit they have no. Shortstop in the system

563
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: they don't Even Have somebody like jazz chisholm who, could

564
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: be a shortstop and they have money to spend and

565
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: kind of the rest of the rebuild. Is coalescing right

566
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: now now would be the time to go out. And

567
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: grab a guy but they should. Be in on him

568
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: they should be in on pretty much all the shortstops or. The,

569
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 2: shortstops they like right they End Up with a javey

570
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: bias who is still. Very good but flawed i'm. Not

571
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: telling you. Anything you don't know he has a second

572
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: tier free agent shortstop, in this particular class because this.

573
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: Class is so good but if they, end up with

574
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: him especially if they end up with him and think

575
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: they CAN do, something to i mean a tiny improvement

576
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: and just play discipline turns Him Into. A perennial All

577
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 2: star and this marlin's club definitely looks at players and

578
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: thinks we can fix him or. We can improve him

579
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: that is a quantum leap over with this club where

580
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: this club, was three years ago and that opens up a.

581
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: Lot OF possibilities too so i think my general answer is.

582
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 2: Go for the shortstops my, specific, answer would be hey,

583
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: start at the top and if you don't get one

584
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 2: of the, guys at the top fine. Work YOUR way

585
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: down but i would hate to see them walk out

586
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: of this free, agent market with nothing. Especially with no shortstops.

587
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: They could add pitching. Everyone could add pitching there's some pretty,

588
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: good free agent starters but opportunities to add, shortstops like

589
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: these guys it doesn't, come around that often and it

590
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: may be that A bias or a trevor story comes

591
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: in a little bit less than they're really worth because

592
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: there's just such a glut of shortstops available in, the, Market,

593
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 2: THIS winter.

594
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: Right yeah i mean, that's something that honestly some of

595
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: us down here are afraid to even dream of them

596
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: doing That Because, they extended miguel rojas, and as you

597
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: mentioned Not only Are, you hi and jazz but the

598
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: organization is high. ON him, As Well i mean derek

599
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: jeter personally has given him his blessing of sorts that

600
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: he's gonna have a long leash. To FIGURE it out

601
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: so I would lean towards i'd, be A little surprised if,

602
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: I'd be, very surprised i'll say if they end up

603
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: getting any of. Those names you mentioned, BUT if, they

604
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: do i mean that's the one thing that really does like.

605
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: Jolt this thing forward it would. BE the, fastest way

606
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: I Mean. It's the detroit lodge. It's the same thing

607
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: the two clubs are. NOT exactly the same i think

608
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: they're a little, IT'S fair to say i think they're.

609
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: A Little Further, Along Right, The Torkalsen riley green dylan

610
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: dingler cluster of hitters is, About to get there and

611
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: they've already got the pitching there in the big. Leagues

612
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: and reasonably healthy like they can look and say we

613
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: might be one player away from being at. Least Wild

614
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: card contenders the marlins might be two players away or.

615
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 2: An extra year away but the thing is that the

616
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: free agent class, is there right now right you can't

617
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: defer and say we'll sign a free agent. Shortstop in

618
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: a year there are something like six of them who,

619
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: could be everyday shortstops who have a chance to be

620
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 2: above average players in. Free agency this winter that. May,

621
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: not be true well it's definitely not gonna be true.

622
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: A year from now there may not be anybody like that.

623
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: A year from now so this is the year to

624
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: go out. And say we'll push if, we're, a you're

625
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: early fine we will live with that because it means

626
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: we have that core player locked up. For the long

627
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: term And if that Means jazz gets if jazz is

628
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: just a second basement or, just. A center fielder fine

629
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: it also just forces a. Decision on him too maybe

630
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: that helps him just say. This is your position we're not.

631
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: Moving you around anymore just go hit, yeah and that

632
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: yeah that's.

633
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: What we're hoping for and you're not the first person

634
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: to actually bring up That particular idea of jazz. In the,

635
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: center field that is we've been like towing around with

636
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: that based on the. Season THAT he had but, i

637
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: think either way they're going to try very hard to

638
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: keep him with a, role on this team just, because

639
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: if nothing else he is he resonates with fans in

640
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: a way that. Basically nobody else does they absolutely. Adore

641
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: him down here.

642
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: He is a, superstar, type of person right and he's got.

643
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: He has superstar tools, it's just you know it's a

644
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: three zero, three, on base percentage right it's hard to be.

645
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: A SUPERSTAR like that but i really think. THERE'S more.

646
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: To come i don't he is not. He's not hobby

647
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: bias he's not somebody without an approach or whose. Approaches.

648
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: Just seaball swing right, there's MORE than that and i. Think,

649
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: there's growth coming.

650
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah that's over'all kind. Of on for Sure This has

651
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: been Keith low of the athletic. Just fantastic appearance here

652
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: a reminder he's got a couple of books on, sale

653
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: this holiday season and encourage you guys to check it

654
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: out and of course to continue reading him the free

655
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: agent rankings when they come out and all. That, Off,

656
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: season coverages well keith. This has been awesome thank you so, Much,

657
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: for stopping by no.

658
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It's been my pleasure ash