1
00:00:15,264 --> 00:00:23,064
Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm Julia Daffy, and I wrote putin Chef, the

2
00:00:23,144 --> 00:00:26,464
Speaker 1: man behind Russia's Shadow Army for Puck, and it's the

3
00:00:26,504 --> 00:00:30,584
Speaker 1: story of the week. I used to have this basic rule.

4
00:00:31,024 --> 00:00:35,624
Speaker 1: It works for dating, reporting, job interviews. A person's true

5
00:00:35,744 --> 00:00:38,944
Speaker 1: character is revealed by how they treat their waiter. If

6
00:00:38,944 --> 00:00:41,384
Speaker 1: someone's a jerk to their server, they're eventually going to

7
00:00:41,424 --> 00:00:44,544
Speaker 1: do something bad to you. But three years ago I

8
00:00:44,664 --> 00:00:47,304
Speaker 1: read a book that totally changed my mind. It's called

9
00:00:47,344 --> 00:00:50,344
Speaker 1: How to Feed the Dictator, and this Polish journalist went

10
00:00:50,384 --> 00:00:55,384
Speaker 1: around the world meeting former dictator chefs. Pol Pot, the

11
00:00:55,424 --> 00:00:59,824
Speaker 1: Cambodian genocidist, was so sweet that Cook's called him Brother

12
00:00:59,944 --> 00:01:05,184
Speaker 1: Mattress because he was soft spoken and calmed everyone down. Idiomine,

13
00:01:05,264 --> 00:01:08,784
Speaker 1: who murdered half a million people, would thank Cook's five

14
00:01:08,824 --> 00:01:11,544
Speaker 1: times and then give them envelopes full of extra cash

15
00:01:11,544 --> 00:01:15,344
Speaker 1: when they made a good meal. Sodom Hussein bought his

16
00:01:15,504 --> 00:01:19,344
Speaker 1: chefs a new car every year. Now, almost all these

17
00:01:19,424 --> 00:01:22,384
Speaker 1: chefs were summoned to their jobs and obviously had to

18
00:01:22,424 --> 00:01:24,704
Speaker 1: take it whether they wanted it or not. They were

19
00:01:24,944 --> 00:01:27,144
Speaker 1: petrified of what their new lives would be like. In

20
00:01:27,184 --> 00:01:30,864
Speaker 1: the palace, None of them sought this job out, but

21
00:01:31,104 --> 00:01:36,104
Speaker 1: someone actually sought out providing food for Vladimir Putin. This

22
00:01:36,264 --> 00:01:40,744
Speaker 1: guy's known as Putin's chef, and honestly he's way more

23
00:01:40,824 --> 00:01:50,144
Speaker 1: insane and dangerous than you would assume. He is writing

24
00:01:50,224 --> 00:01:53,144
Speaker 1: his hard who's got that kind of time when you're

25
00:01:53,184 --> 00:01:56,784
Speaker 1: already busy trying to be John Stein until it turns

26
00:01:56,824 --> 00:02:00,464
Speaker 1: on a mic made the twiddles enob because the journalist

27
00:02:00,584 --> 00:02:05,264
Speaker 1: Rand's got in that Jule Jomeo sing will start me.

28
00:02:05,424 --> 00:02:24,024
Speaker 1: Just listen to smart people speak conversation. There's probably no

29
00:02:24,104 --> 00:02:26,264
Speaker 1: one in Russia who's worn as many hats as if

30
00:02:26,344 --> 00:02:30,224
Speaker 1: Guinny Progosian. He's been called Putin chef because he runs

31
00:02:30,224 --> 00:02:33,744
Speaker 1: a catering company that the Russian government contracts with. But

32
00:02:34,344 --> 00:02:37,584
Speaker 1: he's a chef in the sense that Tony Soprano is

33
00:02:37,624 --> 00:02:41,864
Speaker 1: a waste management consultant. It's far more accurate to say

34
00:02:41,904 --> 00:02:45,184
Speaker 1: that Progosian is the head of a private mercenary company

35
00:02:45,384 --> 00:02:49,624
Speaker 1: that's had soldiers all over the world, especially now in Ukraine.

36
00:02:50,064 --> 00:02:53,864
Speaker 1: And this company is supported directly by Vladimir Putin himself.

37
00:02:54,664 --> 00:02:58,864
Speaker 1: Julia Yaffi reported this story for her publication Puck Juliette,

38
00:02:58,904 --> 00:03:00,904
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on. As you may know from

39
00:03:00,904 --> 00:03:03,624
Speaker 1: my annoying emails over the years and tweets, I'm an

40
00:03:03,784 --> 00:03:06,144
Speaker 1: enormous fan and read everything you write. So I'm really

41
00:03:06,184 --> 00:03:08,544
Speaker 1: really excited. Thank you so much. And they are not

42
00:03:08,584 --> 00:03:12,024
Speaker 1: at all in They're very flattering and funny. Don't encourage me.

43
00:03:13,704 --> 00:03:15,824
Speaker 1: That's how you wind up having to be on the podcast.

44
00:03:15,824 --> 00:03:18,584
Speaker 1: Don't do that. Yeah, you grew up for your first

45
00:03:18,584 --> 00:03:21,664
Speaker 1: seven years in the Soviet Union? What drew you to

46
00:03:21,744 --> 00:03:26,224
Speaker 1: this particular story? For me, it's just a really good

47
00:03:26,384 --> 00:03:30,864
Speaker 1: story in the sense that it is just fucking nuts.

48
00:03:30,904 --> 00:03:34,544
Speaker 1: This guy is fucking nuts. He's a movie villain. He

49
00:03:34,584 --> 00:03:40,144
Speaker 1: gives children dysentery, he sledgehammers people in the head, and

50
00:03:41,064 --> 00:03:44,504
Speaker 1: he's recruiting prisoners to take over another country. I mean,

51
00:03:44,624 --> 00:03:47,264
Speaker 1: it's it's just a good story at its root. Now,

52
00:03:47,304 --> 00:03:49,984
Speaker 1: how do you pronounce Progosian's name, because I'm afraid I'll

53
00:03:49,984 --> 00:03:52,344
Speaker 1: get it wrong and he'll kill me just like that.

54
00:03:53,304 --> 00:03:56,624
Speaker 1: He'll kill you anyway. Yeah, Progosian, he really will. You

55
00:03:56,704 --> 00:03:59,224
Speaker 1: look at his face and it's like if you were

56
00:03:59,264 --> 00:04:01,904
Speaker 1: casting a show and you were casting a hit man

57
00:04:01,904 --> 00:04:03,424
Speaker 1: and he showed up, you'd be like this is too

58
00:04:03,464 --> 00:04:06,584
Speaker 1: on the nose. Yeah, and you'd be like, hey, writer's room,

59
00:04:06,624 --> 00:04:08,824
Speaker 1: can you just kind of turn it down a few

60
00:04:09,224 --> 00:04:13,264
Speaker 1: ches to really overwriting this character. He looks like Mike

61
00:04:13,344 --> 00:04:16,664
Speaker 1: from Breaking Bad. He's got those droopy eyes, and he's bald,

62
00:04:16,744 --> 00:04:20,744
Speaker 1: and he curses constantly. Yeah, but I think to a

63
00:04:20,784 --> 00:04:26,664
Speaker 1: lot of Russians he looks weirdly familiar, you know, this

64
00:04:26,904 --> 00:04:31,304
Speaker 1: kind of post Soviet everyman. He's a real mujik. What

65
00:04:31,304 --> 00:04:34,544
Speaker 1: does that mean? A mujik is an alpha male kind

66
00:04:34,544 --> 00:04:37,944
Speaker 1: of man. He's very physically strong, but he has a

67
00:04:37,944 --> 00:04:40,784
Speaker 1: big heart. He's very loyal, he sticks up for his

68
00:04:40,824 --> 00:04:44,024
Speaker 1: own he doesn't back away from a good and just fight.

69
00:04:44,424 --> 00:04:48,944
Speaker 1: So a mujik is a very important thing in Russian

70
00:04:48,984 --> 00:04:51,984
Speaker 1: culture and also in Russian politics, and in many ways

71
00:04:52,064 --> 00:04:56,224
Speaker 1: he's out alpha mailing Putin, but he's made a lot

72
00:04:56,224 --> 00:04:58,384
Speaker 1: of money off the Russian state, and in that way

73
00:04:58,464 --> 00:05:01,944
Speaker 1: he is not at all like a Russian everyman. And

74
00:05:01,984 --> 00:05:05,664
Speaker 1: how rich is burgos In? He's very rich. Russian independent

75
00:05:05,784 --> 00:05:10,824
Speaker 1: journalists have shown his children on yachts and in big apartments.

76
00:05:10,864 --> 00:05:14,104
Speaker 1: He's very very rich. And you said he grew up

77
00:05:14,504 --> 00:05:17,064
Speaker 1: kind of tough and on the streets. But didn't you

78
00:05:17,064 --> 00:05:18,424
Speaker 1: go to boarding school? And he was going to be

79
00:05:18,424 --> 00:05:22,264
Speaker 1: a cross country skier. Okay, So boarding school in the

80
00:05:22,304 --> 00:05:25,744
Speaker 1: Soviet Union is not boarding school in the US or

81
00:05:25,784 --> 00:05:31,304
Speaker 1: the UK. Boarding school is where you go in the

82
00:05:31,304 --> 00:05:35,024
Speaker 1: Soviet Union if as if you were very poor and

83
00:05:35,104 --> 00:05:39,384
Speaker 1: if your parents cannot take care of you. It is

84
00:05:39,424 --> 00:05:42,904
Speaker 1: something that is like a step above an orphanage. Oh,

85
00:05:42,984 --> 00:05:47,984
Speaker 1: it's more missus Hannigan than Hogwarts. Correct. So after his

86
00:05:48,504 --> 00:05:51,384
Speaker 1: stay with miss Hannigan, he falls in with a bunch

87
00:05:51,424 --> 00:05:55,344
Speaker 1: of guys who commit a ton of crimes. So he

88
00:05:55,504 --> 00:06:00,024
Speaker 1: falls in with a crowd that they're stealing things there.

89
00:06:00,144 --> 00:06:04,104
Speaker 1: It's incredibly Soviet petty crime. Like they're breaking into people's

90
00:06:04,104 --> 00:06:07,824
Speaker 1: apartments and stealing their crystal, you know, and their carpets.

91
00:06:08,184 --> 00:06:10,864
Speaker 1: That's hard to think about people's carpets, you know, hanging

92
00:06:10,904 --> 00:06:13,184
Speaker 1: on the wall, do you know what I mean? Yeah?

93
00:06:13,224 --> 00:06:16,584
Speaker 1: And you know, they're stealing jeans because denim is like

94
00:06:16,904 --> 00:06:20,504
Speaker 1: incredibly rare in the Soviet Union, So they're stealing people's

95
00:06:20,584 --> 00:06:22,864
Speaker 1: denim from their apartments and then selling it on the

96
00:06:22,864 --> 00:06:27,744
Speaker 1: black market. Oh, they're also stealing electronics, like personal use electronics,

97
00:06:27,744 --> 00:06:31,624
Speaker 1: from people's apartments, because that's also impossible to find in

98
00:06:31,664 --> 00:06:34,664
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, that in and of itself just like

99
00:06:34,824 --> 00:06:38,904
Speaker 1: paints this picture of late Soviet life and the hardship

100
00:06:38,984 --> 00:06:43,344
Speaker 1: that everybody was living through. But one night, they have

101
00:06:43,704 --> 00:06:48,024
Speaker 1: a particularly good haul of crystal and rugs and home stereos,

102
00:06:48,184 --> 00:06:50,944
Speaker 1: and they're at a restaurant, which is also like most

103
00:06:50,944 --> 00:06:54,144
Speaker 1: Soviets did not go to restaurants. You had to have

104
00:06:54,184 --> 00:06:55,984
Speaker 1: some kind of hook up to go there, and either

105
00:06:56,104 --> 00:06:59,424
Speaker 1: you were some kind of communist party official, or you

106
00:06:59,464 --> 00:07:02,944
Speaker 1: were a black market here and you had cash. And

107
00:07:02,984 --> 00:07:06,104
Speaker 1: they spotted a woman who was wearing a nice coat,

108
00:07:06,744 --> 00:07:09,384
Speaker 1: and when she walked out of the restaurant, go and

109
00:07:09,464 --> 00:07:12,144
Speaker 1: walked up to her and asked her for a smoke,

110
00:07:12,464 --> 00:07:16,064
Speaker 1: And as she reached into her purse to get him

111
00:07:16,064 --> 00:07:22,584
Speaker 1: a cigarette, he started choking her, and as she started screaming,

112
00:07:22,744 --> 00:07:27,544
Speaker 1: he started choking her even more forcefully, so forcefully that

113
00:07:27,584 --> 00:07:32,664
Speaker 1: she passed out. And then she testified that when she

114
00:07:32,824 --> 00:07:37,824
Speaker 1: came to her boots and her earrings were gone, he

115
00:07:37,944 --> 00:07:42,904
Speaker 1: stole her boots. Wow. Yeah, And that is the one

116
00:07:42,984 --> 00:07:45,864
Speaker 1: that where he got caught. So he spent basically his

117
00:07:46,104 --> 00:07:50,784
Speaker 1: entire twenties in a Soviet prison. That crime. Like, he

118
00:07:50,824 --> 00:07:54,584
Speaker 1: didn't need to choke her. It feels very clockwork orange. Yeah,

119
00:07:54,824 --> 00:07:58,104
Speaker 1: and it kind of explains who Progosion is throughout right.

120
00:07:58,224 --> 00:08:02,624
Speaker 1: It's just has that extra dash of brutality. Yeah, you're like,

121
00:08:02,704 --> 00:08:06,944
Speaker 1: holy shit, this guy's nuts. Yes, just super violent, like

122
00:08:07,024 --> 00:08:11,544
Speaker 1: even in the world of Russian mafia seems particularly scary. Yeah, Okay.

123
00:08:11,544 --> 00:08:13,664
Speaker 1: So he gets out of prison and the world's changed.

124
00:08:13,704 --> 00:08:17,584
Speaker 1: The Soviet Union's gone, it's collapsing, it's collapsing. He gets

125
00:08:17,584 --> 00:08:20,264
Speaker 1: out at the very end. It's like eighty nine at

126
00:08:20,264 --> 00:08:22,504
Speaker 1: the time. By the way, nobody thinks it's going to collapse.

127
00:08:22,544 --> 00:08:27,184
Speaker 1: Everybody thinks it's just changing, right, And he doesn't know

128
00:08:27,184 --> 00:08:29,704
Speaker 1: what to do. And he gets in touch with a

129
00:08:29,784 --> 00:08:33,584
Speaker 1: friend for the schoolmate of his, and he's like he

130
00:08:33,664 --> 00:08:38,144
Speaker 1: brings them into the restaurant industry, which again is taking

131
00:08:38,144 --> 00:08:40,584
Speaker 1: off because there weren't really any restaurants, like I think

132
00:08:40,664 --> 00:08:46,384
Speaker 1: Moscow had like three restaurants. And he also gets into

133
00:08:46,424 --> 00:08:49,304
Speaker 1: the hot dog business. He has a hot dog stand

134
00:08:49,344 --> 00:08:53,304
Speaker 1: and he mixes mustard in his kitchen, which you know,

135
00:08:53,344 --> 00:08:56,224
Speaker 1: he's still living with his mom at the time in

136
00:08:56,264 --> 00:09:00,504
Speaker 1: her apartment. So he's like getting into the restaurant world.

137
00:09:00,504 --> 00:09:04,024
Speaker 1: But the restaurant world is dominated by the mafia already

138
00:09:04,064 --> 00:09:06,904
Speaker 1: by organized crime. Why is that? I mean, it seems

139
00:09:06,984 --> 00:09:10,184
Speaker 1: like I guess that makes sense more than the garbage industry,

140
00:09:10,224 --> 00:09:13,224
Speaker 1: Like why did they go into the restaurant industry? Cash?

141
00:09:13,344 --> 00:09:17,424
Speaker 1: Cash flow, and also like they kind of knew how

142
00:09:17,464 --> 00:09:19,664
Speaker 1: to do it, Like not a lot of people in

143
00:09:19,704 --> 00:09:24,984
Speaker 1: the late Soviet era understood the concept of a free

144
00:09:25,024 --> 00:09:29,384
Speaker 1: market and in general, how a non command economy worked.

145
00:09:29,464 --> 00:09:31,624
Speaker 1: Of course, if you're selling stereo equipment, you're also going

146
00:09:31,704 --> 00:09:34,744
Speaker 1: to know how to steal hot dogs. Yeah, And eventually

147
00:09:34,744 --> 00:09:37,624
Speaker 1: he opens his own restaurant, and then another restaurant, and

148
00:09:37,624 --> 00:09:40,944
Speaker 1: another restaurant. He opens this restaurant I'm kind of fascinated

149
00:09:40,984 --> 00:09:44,864
Speaker 1: by because it had strippers in it, which it's very nineties.

150
00:09:45,104 --> 00:09:48,104
Speaker 1: It's very nineties rush. Yeah. But then he opens one

151
00:09:48,144 --> 00:09:52,184
Speaker 1: that's on a boat. Yeah, and it becomes popular with

152
00:09:52,304 --> 00:09:56,984
Speaker 1: the elite of newly democratic Saint Petersburg, including the mayor

153
00:09:57,064 --> 00:10:01,624
Speaker 1: and his then deputy, Vladimir Putin. He has George W.

154
00:10:01,744 --> 00:10:05,384
Speaker 1: Bush and Laura Bush and Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell

155
00:10:05,544 --> 00:10:08,384
Speaker 1: for dinner. You know, and if you go through old

156
00:10:08,464 --> 00:10:12,144
Speaker 1: photos you just see kind of Progosion everywhere in the

157
00:10:12,144 --> 00:10:15,344
Speaker 1: background at every banquet with his like fucking freaky bald

158
00:10:15,384 --> 00:10:18,384
Speaker 1: head in the background with a platter right like I'm

159
00:10:18,424 --> 00:10:21,264
Speaker 1: seeing the pictures. He's always kind of like serving something

160
00:10:21,264 --> 00:10:24,144
Speaker 1: to the whoever the most powerful person is, right, yeah,

161
00:10:24,184 --> 00:10:29,904
Speaker 1: and he looks like who's that Adams Family character? Oh,

162
00:10:29,984 --> 00:10:33,664
Speaker 1: uncle Fester? Yeah, yeah, he's like Uncle Fester in the background,

163
00:10:33,744 --> 00:10:37,664
Speaker 1: just like raw. Then in two thousand, Putin becomes president,

164
00:10:37,664 --> 00:10:41,504
Speaker 1: which is great news for Progosion because Progosion has taken

165
00:10:41,504 --> 00:10:45,904
Speaker 1: his restaurant industry expertise and started a catering business, which

166
00:10:45,944 --> 00:10:50,104
Speaker 1: then gets contracts through Putin to cater state schools and

167
00:10:50,344 --> 00:10:54,704
Speaker 1: most importantly, the entire military. Right, how were the Progosian

168
00:10:54,824 --> 00:11:01,304
Speaker 1: school lunches? In one unbelievable case, Concord, Progosian's company had

169
00:11:01,304 --> 00:11:07,104
Speaker 1: gotten a monopoly to cater to Moscow's schools, and literally

170
00:11:07,264 --> 00:11:12,304
Speaker 1: hundreds of Moscow's elements entry school children came down with dysentery.

171
00:11:12,744 --> 00:11:16,384
Speaker 1: But the reason for this, and the reason the food

172
00:11:16,464 --> 00:11:19,784
Speaker 1: is so bad, is that around the time that Concord

173
00:11:20,184 --> 00:11:23,624
Speaker 1: starts up, this little thing called Wagner starts up, so

174
00:11:23,664 --> 00:11:26,184
Speaker 1: he's named it after a German composer he calls his

175
00:11:26,264 --> 00:11:30,664
Speaker 1: fighter as musicians. He starts this Wagner Group, which doesn't

176
00:11:30,664 --> 00:11:33,144
Speaker 1: seem connected to like restaurants are catering at all. So

177
00:11:33,184 --> 00:11:37,184
Speaker 1: confusing because Wagner, beloved by Hitler, just seems like it doesn't.

178
00:11:37,264 --> 00:11:41,264
Speaker 1: It's also confusing to me, very confusing because Putin is

179
00:11:41,304 --> 00:11:46,224
Speaker 1: not at all an ethno fascist who is using and

180
00:11:46,464 --> 00:11:52,104
Speaker 1: rehashing and recycling a lot of Hitler's tactics and excuses

181
00:11:52,104 --> 00:11:56,864
Speaker 1: for invading neighboring countries. So it is very strange. And

182
00:11:56,944 --> 00:12:02,544
Speaker 1: what is this Wagner Group. Wagner Group, so Wagner is

183
00:12:03,784 --> 00:12:08,144
Speaker 1: it's technically a private military company, which are illegal in

184
00:12:08,224 --> 00:12:12,904
Speaker 1: Russia to this day and for a long time. Both

185
00:12:13,024 --> 00:12:16,824
Speaker 1: Progosion denies its existence and his own connection to it,

186
00:12:16,944 --> 00:12:19,664
Speaker 1: and the Russian government denies any connection to it. But

187
00:12:19,744 --> 00:12:23,584
Speaker 1: what it really is is a way for the Kremlin

188
00:12:24,264 --> 00:12:27,704
Speaker 1: to have boots on the ground and deny that they

189
00:12:27,784 --> 00:12:30,104
Speaker 1: were in any way connected to the Kremlin. They popped

190
00:12:30,184 --> 00:12:33,624
Speaker 1: up in places like the Central African Republic, where the

191
00:12:33,704 --> 00:12:36,784
Speaker 1: Kremlin denied having anything to do with anything. I guess

192
00:12:37,184 --> 00:12:39,784
Speaker 1: Wagner just grabs things for themselves and takes the profit

193
00:12:39,864 --> 00:12:44,504
Speaker 1: from them. On one hand, Wagner's funded out the back

194
00:12:44,544 --> 00:12:47,024
Speaker 1: door of Concord, which is why the food and Concord

195
00:12:47,104 --> 00:12:50,304
Speaker 1: is so bad. Concord gets these insanely big contracts from

196
00:12:50,344 --> 00:12:53,344
Speaker 1: the Russian government, but most of it goes right out

197
00:12:53,384 --> 00:12:56,144
Speaker 1: the back door to fund Wagner, to create that veneer

198
00:12:56,184 --> 00:13:01,424
Speaker 1: of plausible deniability, but also to keep progosion happy. Anywhere

199
00:13:01,464 --> 00:13:08,264
Speaker 1: Wagner goes, they find some local renewable revenue streams. So

200
00:13:09,064 --> 00:13:11,304
Speaker 1: we're in Africa, it might be a diamond mine or

201
00:13:11,304 --> 00:13:16,784
Speaker 1: a cobalt mine, right, So it's just like stealing stereo equipment, right, Yeah,

202
00:13:16,864 --> 00:13:21,424
Speaker 1: except stereo. The stereo you can sell once. If it's

203
00:13:21,424 --> 00:13:24,024
Speaker 1: a refinery, you can keep using it. If it's a

204
00:13:24,064 --> 00:13:26,544
Speaker 1: diamond mine, you can keep using it. If it's the

205
00:13:26,664 --> 00:13:29,624
Speaker 1: rights to if it's mineral rights to a piece of

206
00:13:29,704 --> 00:13:33,424
Speaker 1: land somewhere in the Central African Republic, that will feed

207
00:13:33,464 --> 00:13:37,504
Speaker 1: Wagner for a long time. And again the Kremlin can say, like,

208
00:13:37,904 --> 00:13:40,784
Speaker 1: we're not funding this, Like show us where in the

209
00:13:40,824 --> 00:13:45,664
Speaker 1: budget we're funding Wagner. In the meantime, Wagner is training

210
00:13:45,824 --> 00:13:49,344
Speaker 1: on bases in Russia. In the meantime, they're getting all

211
00:13:49,384 --> 00:13:54,944
Speaker 1: their weapons from the Defense Ministry of Russia. There's this

212
00:13:55,144 --> 00:13:58,504
Speaker 1: one crazy scene in Syria that made me understand how

213
00:13:58,544 --> 00:14:01,864
Speaker 1: Putin works. Wagner is trying to get hold of this

214
00:14:02,064 --> 00:14:05,104
Speaker 1: oil field, but they do not have Putin's permission for this,

215
00:14:05,264 --> 00:14:08,984
Speaker 1: right exactly. Progosion didn't have Queen's permission. He hadn't checked

216
00:14:09,104 --> 00:14:11,944
Speaker 1: in with the Defense Ministry, who would have told him

217
00:14:12,024 --> 00:14:15,384
Speaker 1: that this refinery is controlled by the Kurds, who are

218
00:14:15,984 --> 00:14:18,664
Speaker 1: allies of the Americans, and that to get there they

219
00:14:18,664 --> 00:14:22,784
Speaker 1: would have to cross through territory that is way too

220
00:14:22,824 --> 00:14:25,784
Speaker 1: close to the American Special Forces, a base that the

221
00:14:25,824 --> 00:14:30,024
Speaker 1: American Special Forces had there. And they went too close, right,

222
00:14:30,344 --> 00:14:33,784
Speaker 1: They got two clothes and the Americans radio through the

223
00:14:33,824 --> 00:14:38,064
Speaker 1: deconfliction channel to their Russian counterparts that the Russian Defense

224
00:14:38,064 --> 00:14:42,024
Speaker 1: Ministry and said, hey, your guys are coming at us.

225
00:14:42,064 --> 00:14:44,984
Speaker 1: They're getting too close. Get them away from us or

226
00:14:44,984 --> 00:14:46,984
Speaker 1: we'll shoot. It's a lot of guys. It's like three

227
00:14:47,064 --> 00:14:51,824
Speaker 1: hundred guys. Yeah, and they're heavily armed. They're not on foot,

228
00:14:51,864 --> 00:14:53,704
Speaker 1: you know, they're not just on foot. They're like in

229
00:14:53,904 --> 00:14:57,624
Speaker 1: APC's and they're heavily armed. They're not. They don't have

230
00:14:57,664 --> 00:15:01,784
Speaker 1: just like pistols. And so the Russians did they call

231
00:15:01,864 --> 00:15:04,984
Speaker 1: them back. No, the Russians said, what guys, those aren't

232
00:15:04,984 --> 00:15:09,224
Speaker 1: our guys. But the Americans know that. Russians. Yeah, and

233
00:15:09,064 --> 00:15:12,904
Speaker 1: and they're like, as one person who was there in

234
00:15:12,944 --> 00:15:15,984
Speaker 1: the room when they were talking to the Russian said, no,

235
00:15:16,104 --> 00:15:20,024
Speaker 1: those are your fucking guys. Pull them back because we

236
00:15:20,104 --> 00:15:24,264
Speaker 1: will shoot. And the Russian said, I don't know what

237
00:15:24,264 --> 00:15:27,704
Speaker 1: you're talking about. And the Americans were like, okay, doak,

238
00:15:28,904 --> 00:15:33,304
Speaker 1: that's what they do. They opened fire, and according to

239
00:15:33,344 --> 00:15:38,184
Speaker 1: another person who witnessed this, it was like an advertisement

240
00:15:38,264 --> 00:15:42,704
Speaker 1: for the American Defense catalog. They shot everything they had

241
00:15:42,704 --> 00:15:50,304
Speaker 1: at them, drones, a jet, machine guns, artillery fire, and

242
00:15:50,984 --> 00:15:56,064
Speaker 1: apparently the Americans would periodically stop, like pause and be like, Okay,

243
00:15:56,104 --> 00:15:58,624
Speaker 1: you're gonna pull back. No, Okay, we're gonna keep going.

244
00:15:59,104 --> 00:16:00,744
Speaker 1: And they did that a couple of times, and they

245
00:16:00,744 --> 00:16:04,344
Speaker 1: didn't pull back, and within a couple of minutes it

246
00:16:04,424 --> 00:16:08,424
Speaker 1: was just, oh, they just completely wiped them out. And

247
00:16:08,584 --> 00:16:12,704
Speaker 1: they had heard the Wagner guys screaming over the radios

248
00:16:12,744 --> 00:16:19,504
Speaker 1: that they're letting us just die. Out here. When we

249
00:16:19,544 --> 00:16:22,304
Speaker 1: come back, we'll find out how Progosion was involved in

250
00:16:22,344 --> 00:16:26,424
Speaker 1: the Russian interference in the twenty sixteen presidential election, and

251
00:16:26,504 --> 00:16:29,304
Speaker 1: how now he's playing a key role in the invasion

252
00:16:29,304 --> 00:16:34,144
Speaker 1: of Ukraine. But first, our advertisers are going to sell

253
00:16:34,184 --> 00:16:37,384
Speaker 1: you some stereo equipment that's totally in its original packaging

254
00:16:37,424 --> 00:16:48,504
Speaker 1: and absolutely works. So, Julia, this guy, if getting Progosian

255
00:16:48,784 --> 00:16:51,664
Speaker 1: has started a private militia that's funded by the Kremlin

256
00:16:51,784 --> 00:16:55,824
Speaker 1: through a backdoor, which is his catering company. But if

257
00:16:55,904 --> 00:17:00,104
Speaker 1: that's not enough, Progosian's also involved in the interference in

258
00:17:00,144 --> 00:17:04,144
Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen US presidential election. I mean, he is

259
00:17:04,184 --> 00:17:07,024
Speaker 1: the Russian meddler. Yeah, and he admitted to it, for

260
00:17:07,104 --> 00:17:10,064
Speaker 1: he was charged. He was charged in twenty eighteen by

261
00:17:10,144 --> 00:17:14,464
Speaker 1: Robert Muller. He denied it forever, the Russian government denied

262
00:17:14,504 --> 00:17:17,704
Speaker 1: it forever, And in twenty twenty two he said, yeah,

263
00:17:17,704 --> 00:17:19,504
Speaker 1: it was me, and I'd do it again, and I'm

264
00:17:19,544 --> 00:17:22,104
Speaker 1: gonna do it again in twenty twenty four because I

265
00:17:22,104 --> 00:17:24,024
Speaker 1: don't like the way you guys do your politics, and

266
00:17:24,104 --> 00:17:27,504
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, I'll engineer some shit in your

267
00:17:27,544 --> 00:17:29,664
Speaker 1: political system to make sure it goes the right way.

268
00:17:29,824 --> 00:17:31,944
Speaker 1: You're welcome. Has he ever actually met Trump or he's

269
00:17:31,984 --> 00:17:33,944
Speaker 1: just a fan from a distance. I don't know of

270
00:17:34,064 --> 00:17:36,784
Speaker 1: him meeting Trump, but progosion unless he was in the

271
00:17:36,784 --> 00:17:39,664
Speaker 1: background during the Miss Universe content, you know, like I'm

272
00:17:39,704 --> 00:17:41,784
Speaker 1: sure somebody will find a photo of him just in

273
00:17:41,864 --> 00:17:45,944
Speaker 1: the background. Like wa. How does he handle journalists that

274
00:17:46,104 --> 00:17:49,704
Speaker 1: uncovers some of this stuff about him? He hires a chemist,

275
00:17:49,864 --> 00:17:54,064
Speaker 1: and the chemist will like load up these syringes full

276
00:17:54,104 --> 00:17:57,544
Speaker 1: of poison and they'll rove the streets and they'll just

277
00:17:58,224 --> 00:18:03,504
Speaker 1: jab you know, journalists or critics of Pretagosha, and they'll

278
00:18:03,544 --> 00:18:07,064
Speaker 1: just jump them with these syringes full of poison. They

279
00:18:07,064 --> 00:18:09,824
Speaker 1: won't they didn't kill most of their people. They just

280
00:18:10,344 --> 00:18:11,864
Speaker 1: you know, it was just to kind of scare them

281
00:18:11,904 --> 00:18:15,184
Speaker 1: a bit. But you know, these people would end up

282
00:18:15,184 --> 00:18:18,344
Speaker 1: in the hospital for a week. They're just like Yeah.

283
00:18:18,464 --> 00:18:22,344
Speaker 1: Then the invasion of Ukraine happens, which is supposed to

284
00:18:22,384 --> 00:18:26,144
Speaker 1: take a week, it starts to take a lot longer. Yep.

285
00:18:26,584 --> 00:18:30,904
Speaker 1: Putin clearly politically a draft would be a disaster, so

286
00:18:30,984 --> 00:18:34,984
Speaker 1: he starts to rely on Wagner, and Wagner has to

287
00:18:34,984 --> 00:18:36,864
Speaker 1: come up with a way to get a lot of

288
00:18:36,904 --> 00:18:41,104
Speaker 1: soldiers very quickly, and Progosion comes up with what seems

289
00:18:41,104 --> 00:18:46,824
Speaker 1: like an insane plant. So Wagner participates in the invasion

290
00:18:46,864 --> 00:18:52,064
Speaker 1: of Ukraine almost immediately because they have the most some

291
00:18:52,104 --> 00:18:55,864
Speaker 1: of the most experienced soldiers. They remember, they've been fighting

292
00:18:55,864 --> 00:18:58,824
Speaker 1: in eastern Ukraine, they've been fighting in Syria, they've been

293
00:18:58,824 --> 00:19:03,264
Speaker 1: fighting in Libya, in other parts of Africa. They are seasoned,

294
00:19:03,304 --> 00:19:05,824
Speaker 1: experienced soldiers as opposed to some of these eighteen year

295
00:19:05,824 --> 00:19:08,624
Speaker 1: old conscripts that are just getting picked off by javelins

296
00:19:08,624 --> 00:19:12,824
Speaker 1: in Ukrain Rain, and they're able to actually deliver some

297
00:19:12,904 --> 00:19:18,384
Speaker 1: results early on in the war. And so Putin gives

298
00:19:19,264 --> 00:19:24,504
Speaker 1: Progosion permission to recruit from his old stopping grounds from

299
00:19:24,544 --> 00:19:33,424
Speaker 1: the jails. So Pogojan starts helicoptering into these prisons. Literally,

300
00:19:33,464 --> 00:19:39,144
Speaker 1: he literally takes his helicopter like a bond villain. He

301
00:19:39,184 --> 00:19:43,424
Speaker 1: would chop her into whatever penal, colony, number, whatever, and

302
00:19:43,744 --> 00:19:46,424
Speaker 1: the prison guards would gather all the prisoners in the

303
00:19:46,424 --> 00:19:50,464
Speaker 1: prison yard and make them listen to Progosian, who would

304
00:19:50,504 --> 00:19:54,984
Speaker 1: deliver a speech in this language that you know he

305
00:19:55,064 --> 00:19:57,064
Speaker 1: sounds like one of them, because he is one of them,

306
00:19:57,064 --> 00:19:59,704
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a language that's very heavily inflected

307
00:19:59,744 --> 00:20:03,704
Speaker 1: with prison slang and that kind of prison yard swagger.

308
00:20:04,304 --> 00:20:08,984
Speaker 1: And he's addressing his fellow mujiks and he's like, listen,

309
00:20:09,744 --> 00:20:12,224
Speaker 1: you can die in prison, or you can die free.

310
00:20:12,904 --> 00:20:15,824
Speaker 1: You can serve out your sentence for another ten years,

311
00:20:16,104 --> 00:20:19,104
Speaker 1: or you can go fight and in six months, if

312
00:20:19,104 --> 00:20:22,424
Speaker 1: you make it out alive, you're free, your record is expunged,

313
00:20:22,624 --> 00:20:26,264
Speaker 1: and you'll get some money. And if you don't, we'll

314
00:20:26,344 --> 00:20:31,144
Speaker 1: bear you like a hero. And people sign up. This

315
00:20:31,184 --> 00:20:34,744
Speaker 1: is like the Hunger Games. Yeah, and also, just to

316
00:20:34,864 --> 00:20:39,144
Speaker 1: be clear, for this to happen, you need to sign

317
00:20:39,144 --> 00:20:43,224
Speaker 1: off at the very very very top of the Russian system.

318
00:20:43,264 --> 00:20:46,824
Speaker 1: You could not chopper into a Russian penal colony and

319
00:20:46,864 --> 00:20:52,344
Speaker 1: deliver the speech without Putin's explicit permission. And the reason

320
00:20:52,504 --> 00:20:55,464
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, we can't do a draft right now.

321
00:20:55,544 --> 00:20:58,384
Speaker 1: We're committed to a semblance of normalcy, especially in the

322
00:20:58,384 --> 00:21:00,824
Speaker 1: big Russian cities, because this is not a war. This

323
00:21:00,904 --> 00:21:04,104
Speaker 1: is a special military operation. We don't want people to

324
00:21:04,144 --> 00:21:06,824
Speaker 1: think it's going to be a long war. So listen,

325
00:21:06,824 --> 00:21:12,504
Speaker 1: nobody cares about prisoners. We need cannon fodder. Great and

326
00:21:12,544 --> 00:21:16,384
Speaker 1: what's interesting is that Stalin did this in World War Two.

327
00:21:16,824 --> 00:21:23,104
Speaker 1: They were called straffbat which means was short for which

328
00:21:23,144 --> 00:21:28,024
Speaker 1: is a penal battalion. These were people from the Gulags

329
00:21:28,064 --> 00:21:32,344
Speaker 1: who were sent in literally as cannon fodder, often without weapons.

330
00:21:32,744 --> 00:21:36,104
Speaker 1: And these guys are too right, Oh yeah, the casual

331
00:21:36,224 --> 00:21:39,904
Speaker 1: rates are how bad? Something like, oh my god? And

332
00:21:39,984 --> 00:21:43,344
Speaker 1: what's crazy is that as this recruitment drive starts in

333
00:21:43,344 --> 00:21:45,504
Speaker 1: the in the summer and we see these videos of

334
00:21:45,984 --> 00:21:51,704
Speaker 1: Pen's pitch coming out Russian ngeo's notice that the Russian

335
00:21:51,744 --> 00:21:55,584
Speaker 1: prison population just plummets by tens of thousands of prisoners.

336
00:21:56,024 --> 00:21:58,304
Speaker 1: Does this scare the Russian people that they know these

337
00:21:58,304 --> 00:22:01,224
Speaker 1: scary criminals might be coming back to their country alive

338
00:22:01,544 --> 00:22:06,344
Speaker 1: and free. Well, nobody's asking them, but some people find

339
00:22:06,384 --> 00:22:09,024
Speaker 1: this kind of distasteful, in part because of the Stalinists

340
00:22:09,784 --> 00:22:13,984
Speaker 1: associations and because they're really poorly armed. They're really just

341
00:22:14,064 --> 00:22:18,904
Speaker 1: being sent as cannon fodder. And pigoshan response to them

342
00:22:19,704 --> 00:22:23,024
Speaker 1: on his social media channels and he says, look, assholes,

343
00:22:23,144 --> 00:22:25,784
Speaker 1: and he calls the assholes. He's like, you want to

344
00:22:25,864 --> 00:22:28,424
Speaker 1: drive around in your nice car with your napple leather

345
00:22:28,584 --> 00:22:31,144
Speaker 1: and you want to carry around your snell bag while

346
00:22:31,184 --> 00:22:34,384
Speaker 1: we fight in Ukraine and you don't want to send

347
00:22:34,424 --> 00:22:38,424
Speaker 1: your sons to war, fine, then let me send these comics.

348
00:22:38,424 --> 00:22:40,264
Speaker 1: Like you don't give a shit about them, They don't

349
00:22:40,264 --> 00:22:42,744
Speaker 1: give a shit about themselves. I'm literally quoting him here.

350
00:22:43,344 --> 00:22:47,024
Speaker 1: He says, So if you don't have another solution, sit down,

351
00:22:47,344 --> 00:22:49,384
Speaker 1: shut the fuck up, and let me do my thing,

352
00:22:50,064 --> 00:22:52,944
Speaker 1: because if you're not willing to send your son, then

353
00:22:53,544 --> 00:22:56,584
Speaker 1: let me do this. Okay. If these soldiers try and

354
00:22:56,704 --> 00:23:00,384
Speaker 1: quit in the war, as some have, how does Progosian

355
00:23:00,504 --> 00:23:06,024
Speaker 1: handle that. The most famous case was a guy by

356
00:23:06,024 --> 00:23:09,304
Speaker 1: the last name of Musion, and he ran over to

357
00:23:09,344 --> 00:23:11,984
Speaker 1: the Ukraine because some people signed up with the express

358
00:23:12,064 --> 00:23:15,424
Speaker 1: purpose of escaping immediately. Sure, yeah, because you don't want

359
00:23:15,424 --> 00:23:16,784
Speaker 1: to be in jail. But a lot of these people

360
00:23:16,824 --> 00:23:19,344
Speaker 1: were like, this is stupid war. Why are we fighting Ukraine?

361
00:23:19,504 --> 00:23:21,184
Speaker 1: And as soon as they got to the front, they

362
00:23:21,184 --> 00:23:23,464
Speaker 1: were like, well, this is fucking dumb and I don't

363
00:23:23,504 --> 00:23:25,344
Speaker 1: want to die, like they're not. They're giving me a

364
00:23:25,384 --> 00:23:27,904
Speaker 1: gun with three bullets and I'm supposed to charge a

365
00:23:27,984 --> 00:23:34,384
Speaker 1: Himar's installation. Fuck that. So people deserted and what's crazy

366
00:23:34,544 --> 00:23:38,144
Speaker 1: is that the Ukrainians would turn them over in these

367
00:23:38,184 --> 00:23:42,704
Speaker 1: prisoner exchanges, which is terrible because Ukrainians from the beginning

368
00:23:42,744 --> 00:23:46,104
Speaker 1: of the war have been encouraging Russian soldiers to desert

369
00:23:46,344 --> 00:23:49,904
Speaker 1: on mass and saying we will treat you well. Come

370
00:23:49,944 --> 00:23:53,104
Speaker 1: over to our side, lay down your arms, don't do this.

371
00:23:54,104 --> 00:23:56,384
Speaker 1: And then what happened to Nusion is he was turned

372
00:23:56,424 --> 00:24:00,504
Speaker 1: over by the Ukrainians in a prisoner exchange. He originally

373
00:24:00,544 --> 00:24:03,304
Speaker 1: said that he was walking down the street in Kiev,

374
00:24:04,344 --> 00:24:06,224
Speaker 1: felt a bump on his head and woke up in

375
00:24:06,264 --> 00:24:10,064
Speaker 1: a Wagner basement in the dawn bass There's a videotaped confession.

376
00:24:10,904 --> 00:24:15,464
Speaker 1: Then his head is taped to a cinder block with

377
00:24:15,624 --> 00:24:20,704
Speaker 1: packing tape and he says, yeah, I'm guilty, I'm a deserter,

378
00:24:21,144 --> 00:24:27,984
Speaker 1: and somebody smashes his head and with a sledgehammer, and

379
00:24:28,024 --> 00:24:32,704
Speaker 1: then Wagner puts this video under the title of the

380
00:24:32,704 --> 00:24:38,984
Speaker 1: Sledgehammer of Justice on their various telegram channels because they

381
00:24:39,024 --> 00:24:40,704
Speaker 1: want it to be clear that this is what we

382
00:24:40,784 --> 00:24:45,704
Speaker 1: do to deserters. And we have since heard from other

383
00:24:45,864 --> 00:24:49,944
Speaker 1: people who have escaped, including Wagner officers, that this is

384
00:24:50,104 --> 00:24:55,104
Speaker 1: a very common execution method for Wagner, this isis. It's

385
00:24:55,104 --> 00:24:58,824
Speaker 1: like isisis and then Progosion puts it on his telegram

386
00:24:58,904 --> 00:25:02,504
Speaker 1: channel like he's isis and he says, this is what

387
00:25:02,584 --> 00:25:04,944
Speaker 1: this dog deserves. Well, he was worse. He wrote it

388
00:25:05,064 --> 00:25:07,344
Speaker 1: seems to me that this film should be called A

389
00:25:07,504 --> 00:25:11,104
Speaker 1: Dog Dies, a Dog's dea. It was an excellent directional

390
00:25:11,184 --> 00:25:14,584
Speaker 1: piece of work watched in one breath. I hope no

391
00:25:14,744 --> 00:25:19,744
Speaker 1: animals were harmed during filming like that, he's a shit beyond.

392
00:25:20,064 --> 00:25:23,344
Speaker 1: It's the choking. Oh, it's the choking. Right, It's like

393
00:25:23,624 --> 00:25:27,744
Speaker 1: you didn't have to do that extra thing, but you did. Yeah.

394
00:25:27,784 --> 00:25:33,784
Speaker 1: And what's even fucking crazier is that then Russian politicians

395
00:25:33,784 --> 00:25:38,864
Speaker 1: and members of parliament have been posing on social media

396
00:25:39,144 --> 00:25:43,624
Speaker 1: with sledge hammers that Progosian has given to them autographed.

397
00:25:44,864 --> 00:25:49,224
Speaker 1: What is wrong with your old country? So many things,

398
00:25:50,064 --> 00:25:55,264
Speaker 1: a hundred years of violent negative selection. What is Progosian's

399
00:25:55,984 --> 00:25:59,744
Speaker 1: ambitions at this point? He's got his own army. He's

400
00:25:59,864 --> 00:26:02,864
Speaker 1: not afraid to like sledge hammer people. It's not even

401
00:26:02,864 --> 00:26:05,144
Speaker 1: that he's not afraid to sledge hammer people. It said,

402
00:26:05,184 --> 00:26:08,904
Speaker 1: he's not afraid to fight the Defense minister publicly. He's

403
00:26:09,104 --> 00:26:12,264
Speaker 1: not afraid to fight the mayor of Saint Petersburg publicly,

404
00:26:12,784 --> 00:26:17,104
Speaker 1: he's publicly like saying bad things about Putin's buddies. Yeah,

405
00:26:17,104 --> 00:26:20,384
Speaker 1: but he's never gone after Putin personally, so he'll go.

406
00:26:21,664 --> 00:26:26,064
Speaker 1: For example, right after the war started, Russia pass these

407
00:26:26,504 --> 00:26:30,104
Speaker 1: military censorship laws saying that you go to jail forever

408
00:26:30,704 --> 00:26:34,024
Speaker 1: if you discredit the armed forces of Russia. But Procosians

409
00:26:34,024 --> 00:26:39,064
Speaker 1: out there saying this military campaign is fucking awful. It's

410
00:26:39,144 --> 00:26:44,104
Speaker 1: being run by idiots. Defense Minister Shoigu is a fucking idiot.

411
00:26:44,744 --> 00:26:49,144
Speaker 1: This general gets him is a fucking idiot. Oh. Also,

412
00:26:49,624 --> 00:26:53,624
Speaker 1: our guys are fighting the hardest, We're the ones doing

413
00:26:53,624 --> 00:26:56,664
Speaker 1: the real fighting, and you guys aren't giving us enough shells.

414
00:26:57,544 --> 00:27:00,744
Speaker 1: Give us more artillery. I'm going to fucking light you

415
00:27:00,784 --> 00:27:02,984
Speaker 1: on fire if you don't give me more shells. That

416
00:27:03,024 --> 00:27:04,904
Speaker 1: doesn't go over well in Russia. No, it does not.

417
00:27:05,184 --> 00:27:07,944
Speaker 1: It does not know. It's also a display of weakness

418
00:27:08,664 --> 00:27:12,224
Speaker 1: because it looks like the Defense ministry has cut him

419
00:27:12,224 --> 00:27:16,024
Speaker 1: off and is not giving him the weapons he needs

420
00:27:16,504 --> 00:27:18,664
Speaker 1: because he's gotten a little too big for his breeches.

421
00:27:19,424 --> 00:27:23,024
Speaker 1: So is Putin worried about progosion like his progosion about

422
00:27:23,024 --> 00:27:26,824
Speaker 1: to fall out of a building somewhere he might. I

423
00:27:26,864 --> 00:27:29,384
Speaker 1: think it is interesting. I mean, there was a period,

424
00:27:29,784 --> 00:27:32,264
Speaker 1: especially in the fall, when people were like, is this

425
00:27:32,344 --> 00:27:36,784
Speaker 1: a new power center? Is he going to contest Putin's power?

426
00:27:37,264 --> 00:27:39,824
Speaker 1: You know, the Moscow rumor mill was talking about how

427
00:27:39,824 --> 00:27:43,424
Speaker 1: he wanted a formal position in the Russian government and

428
00:27:43,504 --> 00:27:46,824
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't settle for anything short of Defense minister,

429
00:27:47,584 --> 00:27:51,384
Speaker 1: and I think people in the Kremlin were like, yeah, okay, buddy.

430
00:27:51,944 --> 00:27:56,184
Speaker 1: But at the same time, he unlike them, He has

431
00:27:56,224 --> 00:27:58,584
Speaker 1: an army of tens of thousands of guys who are

432
00:27:58,584 --> 00:28:02,584
Speaker 1: extremely loyal to him. Unlike Putin, he is constantly down

433
00:28:02,584 --> 00:28:05,184
Speaker 1: on the front lines with them. The first rule of

434
00:28:05,224 --> 00:28:07,424
Speaker 1: being a dictator is you don't let another guy have

435
00:28:07,464 --> 00:28:10,464
Speaker 1: his own army, correct, right, But yeah, this guy has

436
00:28:10,504 --> 00:28:13,784
Speaker 1: his own army, and these guys are really loyal to him,

437
00:28:13,984 --> 00:28:16,664
Speaker 1: and they're also crazy and they know how to shoot guns.

438
00:28:17,344 --> 00:28:21,744
Speaker 1: And you know, there were people who talk to Wagner

439
00:28:21,784 --> 00:28:25,504
Speaker 1: fighters at the front and we're saying that these guys

440
00:28:25,584 --> 00:28:28,944
Speaker 1: feel abandoned by Moscow, feel abandoned by the central leadership,

441
00:28:28,984 --> 00:28:31,864
Speaker 1: and we're like, fuck it, We're going to march on Moscow. Oh,

442
00:28:32,304 --> 00:28:36,264
Speaker 1: but I mean good luck getting to Moscow. Like Putin

443
00:28:36,344 --> 00:28:38,904
Speaker 1: is surrounded in Moscow by like I would probably like

444
00:28:38,944 --> 00:28:47,344
Speaker 1: fifty thousand well armed police, special police, National Guard, the

445
00:28:47,384 --> 00:28:51,344
Speaker 1: equivalent of the Secret Service FSB, and they all hate progosion.

446
00:28:52,184 --> 00:28:56,304
Speaker 1: So a Wagner too is unlikely for now, for now,

447
00:28:57,064 --> 00:29:01,384
Speaker 1: but he is clearly making a political play. He is

448
00:29:01,464 --> 00:29:05,424
Speaker 1: clearly building his own base of support, and he's out

449
00:29:05,504 --> 00:29:08,704
Speaker 1: alpha mailing Putin. I say he's dead in six months,

450
00:29:08,864 --> 00:29:11,904
Speaker 1: I hope. So are you afraid of writing stuff like this? No?

451
00:29:12,064 --> 00:29:14,344
Speaker 1: Like for your own safety? No? No, I mean I

452
00:29:14,384 --> 00:29:18,464
Speaker 1: can't go to Russia now for the foreseeable future. What's

453
00:29:18,464 --> 00:29:20,104
Speaker 1: he going to do come to America? I don't think so.

454
00:29:21,664 --> 00:29:24,304
Speaker 1: You're so much tougher than me. Look, what I'm afraid

455
00:29:24,304 --> 00:29:26,824
Speaker 1: of an America is not. What I'm afraid of an

456
00:29:26,824 --> 00:29:30,224
Speaker 1: America is the right wing nuts who for years have

457
00:29:30,304 --> 00:29:33,344
Speaker 1: sent me death threats, who can find my address online

458
00:29:33,704 --> 00:29:35,624
Speaker 1: and who can buy an AAR fifteen and show up

459
00:29:35,624 --> 00:29:39,144
Speaker 1: at my doorstep. But the chances of him getting somebody

460
00:29:39,224 --> 00:29:43,064
Speaker 1: here to the US to offer me are very low.

461
00:29:43,624 --> 00:29:47,864
Speaker 1: Compared to our podcast listeners, yea, the Steiny's They're so

462
00:29:47,864 --> 00:29:53,024
Speaker 1: strong anti semi Yeah, Juliet Yaffi, you wrote this amazing

463
00:29:53,064 --> 00:29:57,144
Speaker 1: story putin Chef for a puck. It scared me. It

464
00:29:57,384 --> 00:29:59,704
Speaker 1: made me realize how crazy the world is and that

465
00:29:59,864 --> 00:30:01,944
Speaker 1: I will never ever be able to go to Russia.

466
00:30:02,064 --> 00:30:04,904
Speaker 1: It made you laugh, it made you cry well, I cried.

467
00:30:05,264 --> 00:30:07,704
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this, Thank you for

468
00:30:07,784 --> 00:30:12,024
Speaker 1: having me, Thanks for sharing the story. If you think

469
00:30:12,064 --> 00:30:15,024
Speaker 1: putin Chef is dangerous, you do not want to know

470
00:30:15,064 --> 00:30:19,264
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump's chef. This guy's a colonel from Kentucky,

471
00:30:19,784 --> 00:30:22,984
Speaker 1: gotten a shootout with his local fried Chicken competitor over

472
00:30:23,024 --> 00:30:27,384
Speaker 1: a sign, was friends with Jerry Folwell, wore the same

473
00:30:27,584 --> 00:30:31,464
Speaker 1: white suit and black string tie every day and guarded

474
00:30:31,504 --> 00:30:35,464
Speaker 1: his secret combination of eleven herbs and spices with his life.

475
00:30:38,344 --> 00:30:41,544
Speaker 1: At the end of the show, what's next for joel Stein?

476
00:30:41,704 --> 00:30:45,944
Speaker 1: Maybe he'll take a nap voke around online. Our Show

477
00:30:45,944 --> 00:30:51,184
Speaker 1: Today was produced by Molaboard and Nisha Bencutt. It was

478
00:30:51,304 --> 00:30:55,504
Speaker 1: edited by Lydia Gencott. Our engineer is Amanda kay Wang

479
00:30:56,104 --> 00:31:00,464
Speaker 1: and our executive producer is Katherine Giradl and our theme

480
00:31:00,504 --> 00:31:03,584
Speaker 1: song was written and performed by Jonathan Colton, and a

481
00:31:03,664 --> 00:31:06,544
Speaker 1: special thanks to my voice coach Vicky Merrick and my

482
00:31:06,624 --> 00:31:11,344
Speaker 1: consulting producer laurenz Elasnick. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen

483
00:31:11,384 --> 00:31:15,144
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

484
00:31:15,184 --> 00:31:18,384
Speaker 1: to your podcasts. I'm Joel Stein and this is the

485
00:31:18,424 --> 00:31:23,624
Speaker 1: story of the week. Next week, I learned why the

486
00:31:23,664 --> 00:31:27,744
Speaker 1: journalist aj Jacobs is walking around Manhattan with a metal ladle.

487
00:31:28,264 --> 00:31:33,304
Speaker 1: Here's a hint. It's not for soup. Oh my god.

488
00:31:33,304 --> 00:31:35,944
Speaker 1: When I write a story, if I get like some

489
00:31:36,064 --> 00:31:39,784
Speaker 1: bad comments, I'm like, you know, that's days of being

490
00:31:39,944 --> 00:31:41,744
Speaker 1: a mess for me. I can't imagine if I knew

491
00:31:41,784 --> 00:31:44,144
Speaker 1: that someone might like shoot me with a syringe in

492
00:31:44,144 --> 00:31:46,464
Speaker 1: the middle of the street with poison. Yeah, just like

493
00:31:46,904 --> 00:31:50,064
Speaker 1: right in the neck. Although honestly, that's what some of

494
00:31:50,064 --> 00:31:52,864
Speaker 1: the comments feel like. Snowflake,