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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Every year, the top

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Speaker 1: executives at Apple, of course, one of the largest and

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Speaker 1: most influential companies in the world, are whisked away to

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Speaker 1: an idyllic retreat, usually in Carmel Valley that's about ninety

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Speaker 1: miles south of the company's headquarters in Coopertino, California. So

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Speaker 1: many of these execs travel by bus.

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Speaker 2: They can't bring their family, they can't bring their assistance.

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Speaker 2: These are the one hundred most important people at Apple.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Mark German has covered Apple for almost fifteen years,

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Speaker 1: and he says this annual meeting is one of the

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Speaker 1: most important dates on the company's calendar. It's something Steve

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Speaker 1: Job started.

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Speaker 2: They sit in auditoriums, different rooms of this beautiful resort

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Speaker 2: in northern California. They are taught and shown all of

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Speaker 2: the goodness that's to come from Apple in the years

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Speaker 2: to come.

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Speaker 1: It was at the retreat that Apple, so called Top

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Speaker 1: one hundred got a first look at the original iPad.

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Speaker 1: Mark says they saw the MacBook Air and the Apple Watch,

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Speaker 1: and got updates on the Apple Car project, which the

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Speaker 1: company just scrapped.

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Speaker 2: This is where you go to learn about Apple's future.

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Speaker 1: And while most of the focus is on product presentations

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Speaker 1: and prototypes, Apple senior leaders are also taking note of

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Speaker 1: who among them has been picked to make these presentations.

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Speaker 2: I think the people at that event are probably always

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Speaker 2: naturally trying to figure out who's next in line, who's

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Speaker 2: in charge.

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Speaker 1: That is, who will eventually replace Tim Cook, Jobs's handpicked successor,

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Speaker 1: has been the CEO of Apple for nearly thirteen years.

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Speaker 1: He was Jobs's deputy before that. At Apple, succession planning

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Speaker 1: is the elephant in the room, and even though Cook

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Speaker 1: hasn't indicated he plans to leave the company anytime soon,

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Speaker 1: Mark says, there is growing speculation about when that'll happen,

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Speaker 1: who will be its next chief executecutive, and whether that

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Speaker 1: person is in this group of Apple's most important people.

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Speaker 2: We're nearing sort of the end of Cook's tenure at Apple,

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Speaker 2: probably right. He's going to turn sixty five next year.

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Speaker 2: He's older than most CEOs in the S and P

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Speaker 2: five hundred. He's been at Apple for twenty five years.

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Speaker 2: And Apple's at a precarious position because the executive team

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Speaker 2: where they likely would choose their next CEO from most

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Speaker 2: of the people on that executive team are all about

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Speaker 2: sixty years old or would probably be in their mid

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Speaker 2: to late sixties by the time Tim Cook retires, leaving

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Speaker 2: the company with very few reasonable options today.

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Speaker 1: On the show, the challenge is of finding someone who

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Speaker 1: could do one of the most demanding jobs in business,

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Speaker 1: who's in the running, and how that decision will impact

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Speaker 1: a two point eight trillion dollar company in one of

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Speaker 1: the best known brands in the world. I'm David Gura,

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Speaker 1: and this is the big take from Bloomberg News. Tim

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Speaker 1: Cook has been the CEO of Apple for more than

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Speaker 1: a decade, and part of his job involves planning for

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Speaker 1: who will succeed him. Bloomberg's Mark German says, it's not

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Speaker 1: the easiest job to fill. Is that job description really

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Speaker 1: well fleshed out? In other words, what does an Apple

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Speaker 1: CEO need to be able to do?

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Speaker 2: An Apple CEO needs to either be the visionary to

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Speaker 2: bring new products to market or needs to be able

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Speaker 2: to find who the visionary is and partner with that

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Speaker 2: visionary to bring those new products to market.

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Speaker 1: It's a challenge that wasn't lost on Steve Jobs when

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Speaker 1: he tapped Cook for the job.

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Speaker 2: You know the thing about Cook is that it is

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Speaker 2: all consuming. And I think one of the reasons that

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Speaker 2: Jobs made him the CEO, other than the fact that

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Speaker 2: he was the most qualified, probably by a long shot,

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Speaker 2: amongst the executive team at the time, is that Jobs

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Speaker 2: knew how all consuming the next era of Apple would be. Right,

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Speaker 2: and Tim's entire life, for the most part, based on

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Speaker 2: everyone who knows him, everyone you speak to about him,

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Speaker 2: is Apple.

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Speaker 1: Cook became Apple CEO in twenty eleven under intense scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: He took over for Jobs, the company's founder, who was

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Speaker 1: battling pancreatic cancer, and in October of that year, Cook

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Speaker 1: stepped into the spotlight to unveil a new version of

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Speaker 1: the iPhone.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, this is my first product launch since being

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Speaker 3: named CEO. I'm sure you didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: You can hear him cracking a joke to acknowledge what

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Speaker 1: a big moment this was. He was under immense pressure,

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Speaker 1: following in Jobs's footsteps.

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Speaker 3: I love Apple, and I consider it the privilege of

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Speaker 3: a lifetime to have worked here for almost fourteen years.

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Speaker 1: As Apple's chief operating officer. Cook worked side by side

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Speaker 1: with Jobs during a period when Apple grew at breakneck speed,

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Speaker 1: when it became much more than a computer company.

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Speaker 3: Just ten years ago, we launched the original i iPod

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Speaker 3: here and it went on to revolutionize the way we

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Speaker 3: listened to music.

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Speaker 1: Mark you covered that transition in twenty eleven. What can

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Speaker 1: you tell us about the relationship between Steve Jobs and

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Speaker 1: Tim Cook?

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Speaker 2: They were close. I wouldn't say that they were best friends.

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Speaker 2: I would say in many ways they were partners. Steve

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Speaker 2: Jobs was the design mind, he was the person dreaming

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Speaker 2: up these new products, and Tim Cook was the execution guy.

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Speaker 2: He was the person, for all intentsive purposes who was

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Speaker 2: able to bring these products to market, get them manufactured,

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Speaker 2: get them into retail stores, and so forth. And then

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Speaker 2: when Steve Jobs stepped down and then ultimately passed away,

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Speaker 2: what Apple lost was sort of that visionary to dream

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Speaker 2: up new types of product categories, new designs, new user experiences.

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Speaker 1: Jobs died on October fifth, twenty eleven, one day after

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Speaker 1: Cook unveiled that new iPhone, and in the years that followed,

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Speaker 1: Cook made sure Apple continued to build on the runaway

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Speaker 1: success of that device.

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Speaker 2: The Apple Watch for all intensive purposes is an accessory

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Speaker 2: or an extension of the iPhone. AirPods are an extension

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Speaker 2: of the iPhone and accessory to the iPhone. What Tim

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Speaker 2: Cook has done, He's taken the product lines that Steve

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Speaker 2: Jobs created and envisioned and supercharged them. When Steve Jobs passed,

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Speaker 2: there was only one iPad model, the iPad two. Today

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Speaker 2: there are five or even more iPad models available right now.

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Speaker 2: The iPhone went from one or two different models to

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Speaker 2: several different models. So what Tim Cook has been able

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Speaker 2: to do is squeeze so much juice out of the

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Speaker 2: lemons that are those original Apple form factors.

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Speaker 1: Under his leadership, Apple added products and services along with

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Speaker 1: new accessories. The company branched into movies and TV, introduced

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Speaker 1: an Apple credit card.

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Speaker 2: At its core, I think Apple is still very much

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Speaker 2: a technology company, but they like to position themselves as

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Speaker 2: well as a lifestyle company.

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Speaker 1: Now, more than a decade into his tenure, do you

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Speaker 1: see this company as Tim Cook's Apple or is it

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Speaker 1: still Steve Jobs's Apple that Tim Cook is the steward of.

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Speaker 2: I think it's actually a mix of both. At its

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Speaker 2: very core, Steve Jobs left the Apple with something, you know,

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Speaker 2: more than pretty good in the iPhone, and Tim Cook,

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Speaker 2: I would say, has probably made the most of what

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Speaker 2: he was left with. I don't think anyone could have

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Speaker 2: done a better job following in the footsteps as legendary

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Speaker 2: as someone like Steve Jobs.

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Speaker 1: People worried Steve Jobs would be irreplaceable, but now there's

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Speaker 1: a sense Tim Cook's shoes will be hard to fill.

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Speaker 2: So the question is Apple moving forward? Who is that

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Speaker 2: new person to lead Apple into a new era with

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Speaker 2: a new vision, with new types of products, And that's

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Speaker 2: really what Apple needs to come up with to create

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Speaker 2: its next fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: There are a handful of names that come up in

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Speaker 1: conversations about CEO succession at Apple, but over the years,

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Speaker 1: as Mark has reported on this, there's been a clear

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Speaker 1: front runner.

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Speaker 2: He can own the stage, he can talk the talk

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Speaker 2: with government officials from China to year up to the US.

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Speaker 2: If something happened unexpectedly to Cook, I don't think Apple

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Speaker 2: would miss a beat.

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Speaker 1: So who is Apple's air apparent and who else is

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Speaker 1: waiting in the wings buying for the top job? That's

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Speaker 1: after the break. Before Tim Cook became Apple's CEO, he

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Speaker 1: was the chief operating officer under Steve Jobs, And when

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Speaker 1: it comes to who will replace Cook, his current COO

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Speaker 1: could easily be next in line.

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Speaker 3: And to tell us about some progress in this area.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to invite out Jeff Williams.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Cook introducing Jeff Williams at a product launch

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Last year, we introduced research Kit, and our goal was

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Speaker 2: to use technology to solve some of the biggest problems.

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Speaker 1: Williams has been COO for almost a decade now. He

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Speaker 1: joined the company in nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: Right now, he runs Apple's entire operations. He's in charge

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Speaker 2: of the Apple supply, He's in charge of Apple's health

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Speaker 2: care efforts. He's in charge of Apple Watch, hardware and

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Speaker 2: software engineering. He was in charge of the Apple Car,

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Speaker 2: He's involved with the Apple Vision pro headset, and he's

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Speaker 2: in charge of Apple's hardware and software design organization. So

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Speaker 2: he has so much on his portfolio already, and he

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Speaker 2: would be able to be a shoe in pretty easily

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Speaker 2: for Cook if something were to happen. A lot of

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Speaker 2: people have called him Tim Cook's Tim Cook.

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Speaker 1: And like Cook, Williams grew up in the South. He

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Speaker 1: got an MBA from Duke and had a stint at

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Speaker 1: IBM before joining Apple. But there is something else these

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Speaker 1: two have in common. They're both in their early sixties.

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Speaker 2: He's only two years younger than Cook.

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Speaker 1: And that could make Williams his path to succeeding Cook complicated.

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Speaker 2: If Cook retires in three to five years, you can't

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Speaker 2: name a sixty six year old Jeff Williams a CEO

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Speaker 2: of Apple. Right the street, the market, the employees, the

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Speaker 2: board probably wouldn't be terribly fond of that idea. You

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Speaker 2: can't set up someone for a two to five year

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Speaker 2: tenure as a new CEO of a company as big

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Speaker 2: and as important as Apple.

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Speaker 1: This is not just an issue with Williams, though. When

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Speaker 1: you go down the list of other potential candidates among

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Speaker 1: Apple's top management, a trend emerges. Mark says many members

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Speaker 1: of the company's leadership team are also hovering around retirement

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Speaker 1: age and turnover at the executive level is pretty rare.

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Speaker 2: When you're a senior vice president that at Apple, you're

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Speaker 2: essentially the CEO of a major division. Right You're at

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Speaker 2: one of the most successful companies in the world. You're

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Speaker 2: also getting paid twenty five million dollars per year as

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Speaker 2: an Apple senior vice president. So from a financial standpoint,

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Speaker 2: it's very worthwhile to stay around. But I think the

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Speaker 2: people on Apple's executive team, they're motivated by more than money.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a sense that a lot of these

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Speaker 2: folks are very much motivated by the power that comes

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Speaker 2: with being in that role, and so power is sometimes

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Speaker 2: hard to give up.

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Speaker 1: Mark says, if it's not Williams, there are a few

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Speaker 1: other candidates who are likely in the running. They're all

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Speaker 1: currently on the Apple payroll. Tim Cook himself has said

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Speaker 1: he hopes the board taps someone from within the company,

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Speaker 1: and they have their own trade offs. Finding a single

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Speaker 1: person who can do everything that an Apple CEO needs

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Speaker 1: to do is a real challenge. One potential candidate is

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Speaker 1: on his second stint at Apple.

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Speaker 2: Craig Federigi, who's in charge of software engineering, but Mark

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Speaker 2: says Federigi probably doesn't have the business acumen to run

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Speaker 2: the whole company.

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Speaker 1: There's also Deirdre O'Brien, who oversees Apple's sprawling retail operation worldwide.

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Speaker 2: And before that she was one of the company's top

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Speaker 2: executives on operations in sales.

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Speaker 1: But according to Mark, Apple probably.

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Speaker 2: Wants to try something new for a new era and

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Speaker 2: not go with another operations or an HR person.

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Speaker 1: But Mark has identified another candidate who with his age

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Speaker 1: and experience is a strong contender.

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Speaker 2: Everything that I have learned while reporting the story points

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Speaker 2: to a guy named John Turnas. He is not even

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Speaker 2: fifty years old. He's Apple's senior vice president of Hardware Engineer.

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Speaker 2: He joined Apple's executive team in twenty twenty one. He

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Speaker 2: has quickly risen through the ranks. He used to be

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Speaker 2: a VP in charge of Mac computer engineering. He eventually

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Speaker 2: added the iPad, added AirPods. More recently, he added the

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Speaker 2: iPhone and the Apple Watch, and now he's in charge

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Speaker 2: of basically all of the money making hardware for Apple,

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Speaker 2: and he's become an increasingly important face at the company.

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Speaker 2: He's been increasingly promoted in their marketing. He's dealing with

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Speaker 2: regulators in terms of rights and repair laws. So he's

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Speaker 2: becoming a bigger part of the Apple story.

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Speaker 1: Mark says, Turnis had a marque role this year at

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Speaker 1: that annual executive conference in Northern California, And just this

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Speaker 1: week Apple unveiled some new tech and Cook called on

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Speaker 1: Turnis at that event to introduce those new products to

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Speaker 1: the public.

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Speaker 3: So here's John to tell you more.

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Speaker 2: Let's kick things off with iPad air.

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Speaker 1: Mark says Turnas's prospects of becoming Apple's next CEO get

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Speaker 1: better the longer Cook sticks around. There's no indication he

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Speaker 1: plans to retire anytime soon. Executives are not under the

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Speaker 1: same pressure they used to be to retire in their

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Speaker 1: mid sixties. Mark, I wonder if you could situate this

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Speaker 1: conversation in kind of a broader cultural sea change. We're

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Speaker 1: seeing Bob Eiger back at Disney in his seventies. That

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Speaker 1: must in some way sort of liberate Tim Cook to

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Speaker 1: look perhaps at a longer tenure at Apple.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very good point. Certainly, the next US

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Speaker 2: president is going to be in their eighties during their tenure.

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Speaker 2: You have Pat Gelsinger, who's the CEO of Intel. He

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Speaker 2: was named to that role three years ago when he

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Speaker 2: was about sixty. So certainly you do have some older

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Speaker 2: statesman there with Tim Cook, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: older ones. And Apple appreciates, as some people tell me,

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Speaker 2: the people with gray hair there. That means they have

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Speaker 2: experience in wisdom, and they've been around the block a

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Speaker 2: few times. There is nothing that Tim Cook hasn't seen,

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Speaker 2: and wisdom goes a long way for being an Apple executive.

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Speaker 1: For his part, Cook has a lot of unfinished business

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Speaker 1: right now. Apple has seen a slow down in sales.

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Speaker 1: The company is taking hits from regulators in the US

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Speaker 1: and the European Union, and after Apple's adventure in automobile

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Speaker 1: manufacturing came to a screeching halt, it's under pressure to

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Speaker 1: deliver something new. All of that and more is on

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Speaker 1: Cook's plate, and Mark says no one is pushing him

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Speaker 1: to step aside.

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Speaker 2: There's no mandatory retirement age, and I would say that

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Speaker 2: even if there was, they'd rip that up or shred

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Speaker 2: it or light it on fire to let Cook stay

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Speaker 2: around as long as he wants to. Because he's been effective.

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Speaker 2: Wall Street loves him. The stock price has surely been

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Speaker 2: positively reflected by Cook's tenure, and so I think Tim

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Speaker 2: Cook is going to be the CEO of Apple as

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Speaker 2: long as he wants to be the CEO of Apple,

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Speaker 2: and he won't step down a day before that.

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Speaker 1: This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerret.

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Speaker 1: This episode was produced by David Fox and Thomas lou

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Speaker 1: It was edited by state Sevanix Smith, Aaron Edwards, and

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Speaker 1: Nick Turner. It was mixed and fact checked by Alex Sagura.

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Speaker 1: Our senior producers are Naomi Shaven and Kim Giittleson. Our

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Speaker 1: senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Nicole Beemster Borr is our

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Speaker 1: executive producer. Sage Bauman is our head of podcasts. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening. Please follow and review The Big Take wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. It helps new listeners find the show.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow.