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Speaker 1: What's up his way up at Angela yee and my

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Speaker 1: girl Selena Hill is hanging out with me.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: I'm a journalist extraordinaire and we're really excited. We have

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Speaker 1: so many questions for you.

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Speaker 3: Today. We have Marjorie Mezzador here.

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Speaker 1: She is the harassment slayer, but you're also the founder

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Speaker 1: and chief visionary officer of Mezzador PLLC, which is a

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Speaker 1: workplace discrimination law firm employment and workplace discrimination law firm

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Speaker 1: dedicated to advancing justice, equity, and accountability in the workplace.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 1: We have so many things going on and so many

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Speaker 1: people call up for ask ye with questions when it

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Speaker 1: comes to you know, things that happen in the workplace

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Speaker 1: and how to go about it. And we know it's

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Speaker 1: something that's difficult for people to navigate.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I mean you would be surprised even when

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Speaker 2: people know they're being discriminated against. Just how uncomfortable that

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Speaker 2: people are even using the word discrimination. Right most of

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Speaker 2: the time when things are going on, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this person has a personal problem with me. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what the issue is, I don't know why I'm

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Speaker 2: being treated so differently. They'll run through the gamut of

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Speaker 2: questions all through their head, and the very last thing

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Speaker 2: that they come up with this with is I think

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Speaker 2: it's because I'm a woman. I think it's because I'm black.

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Speaker 2: I think it's because I am not a Nate, I

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Speaker 2: am a foreign born in national or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of times we can feel powerless

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Speaker 1: to do anything about it. And it's interesting in this

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Speaker 1: dnage that we're in right now, Selena.

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Speaker 3: You were just covering a situation with Coca was this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So the EEOC recently filed a lawsuit against a

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Speaker 4: Coca Cola distributor for hosting a women only networking event.

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Speaker 4: The federal government is literally saying or claiming that this

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Speaker 4: company discriminated against men because they were not invited on

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Speaker 4: this retreat right, which was for you know, women's empowerment purposes.

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Speaker 4: So you know, my question is I want, as an

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Speaker 4: attorney who is working to protect underrepresented groups and historic,

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Speaker 4: historically marginalized groups, what are your thoughts on this? How

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Speaker 4: can both companies and these marginalized groups protect themselves when

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Speaker 4: in Trump's era, the federal government can actually sue for

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Speaker 4: something like this.

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Speaker 2: Right, So, a couple of different things, right, First and foremost,

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Speaker 2: if a private company is putting forth programs to push

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Speaker 2: forth an agenda that helps their bottom line that happens

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Speaker 2: to align with gender or race or anything like that,

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Speaker 2: that is never going to be discriminatory in and of itself. Right.

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Speaker 2: So if you if you are tampaks and you are

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Speaker 2: running you know, an empowerment group for that, it's because

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Speaker 2: you have you sell a product that is directly geared

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Speaker 2: toward women, right, that is going to be otherwise helpful

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Speaker 2: and beneficial to them where they can run into try waters.

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Speaker 2: Is because this particular administration is putting this particular administration

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Speaker 2: has taken a stance on DEI. Right, that is that

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Speaker 2: makes it like a four letter word, a very very

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Speaker 2: like de I is naughty. D I is bad. For

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Speaker 2: this administration, they they see DEI and putting forth and

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Speaker 2: pushing for the agenda of one race or one gender

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Speaker 2: one of them to be the same. So, because they

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Speaker 2: just take a very cookery cutter view of that, and

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Speaker 2: they have the purse strings of the federal government, they

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Speaker 2: can weaponize. Right, an agency like the EEOC, and the

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Speaker 2: EEOC only exists to investigate and research any discrimination that

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Speaker 2: takes places in places that have fifteen or more employees. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so because they have that that that ability, they have

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Speaker 2: that authority and that they have that a power. If

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Speaker 2: you have fifteen or more employees, the EEOC can take

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Speaker 2: a look at your policy, your procedures, your DEI policies

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Speaker 2: and say that, you know what, this doesn't align with

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Speaker 2: what we think is appropriate or legal, or any one

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Speaker 2: of those things. So we're going to investigate it. But

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Speaker 2: what the EEOC does not have the ability to do

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Speaker 2: is declare it illegal just because they're investigating. So none

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Speaker 2: of the laws have changed. None of the way that

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Speaker 2: we look at the law that says that when marginalized

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Speaker 2: populations come together in order to create affinity groups and

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Speaker 2: to otherwise elevate agendas and the stuff that in and

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Speaker 2: of itself is not discriminatory, that has not changed. But

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Speaker 2: the government's ability to direct the EOC and say, you

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Speaker 2: know what, we're gonna we're not gonna look at these

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Speaker 2: transgender issues anymore. We're going to focus on just the

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Speaker 2: DEI policies that are focused just for women or just

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Speaker 2: for people of color, because we're calling that illegal indiscriminatory,

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Speaker 2: even though they are saying that they can and they

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Speaker 2: can do that. They can go in and investigate and

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Speaker 2: they can make life very uncomfortable for Coca Cola. They

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Speaker 2: cannot declare it illegal though that only the law can do,

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Speaker 2: only the court can do. But they'll just make it uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: And nobody wants the EOC in their backyard.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of like a warning for other companies too,

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Speaker 1: exactly where that happens. Do you want to have to

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Speaker 1: deal with all of this exactly?

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Speaker 2: And this administration has been very effective by saying by saying,

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Speaker 2: we are going to throw our entire weight and authority

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Speaker 2: behind what we can do to make it as uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: for you as possible so that you can do what

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Speaker 2: we want you to do.

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Speaker 4: And to Angela's point, like it's definitely setting our precedence

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Speaker 4: so that because we see a lot of companies are

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Speaker 4: no longer in acting DEI policies. But with the lawsuit,

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Speaker 4: they're saying the company violated Title seven of the Civil

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Speaker 4: Rights Act because men supposedly were not invited to this women's.

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Speaker 5: Retreat during the workout during work hours.

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Speaker 4: So they're saying that's the case and I'm saying, like

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Speaker 4: the pendulum has definitely shifted because instead of protecting women, minorities, immigrants,

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Speaker 4: now it's like they're attacking them, and they're using the

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Speaker 4: same laws that were created to protect these groups now

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Speaker 4: to attack workers while they are on the job. Like,

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Speaker 4: how do we navigate that?

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Speaker 2: So a few different things with this particular case, I

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Speaker 2: don't know like all the ins and outs of like

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Speaker 2: what kind of program it was under, what like how

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Speaker 2: they were able to otherwise finagle it, you know, before

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Speaker 2: or anything like that. But if the only criteria for

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Speaker 2: you to go to this retreat is your gender, then

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Speaker 2: that is discriminatory. If the only criteria only right, you're women,

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Speaker 2: you're a woman, you're in, your guy, you're out, that

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Speaker 2: on its face absolutely is discriminatory. However, right, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the programs that we're talking about, like the DEI programs,

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Speaker 2: the affinity programs, a lot of them have to do

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Speaker 2: and invite anyone who is in support of anything that

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Speaker 2: is going to otherwise elevate support the cause of and

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Speaker 2: the issues of the affinity group so it doesn't become

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Speaker 2: a situation where it's only men versus women. This is

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Speaker 2: a woman's retreat for issues that are particularly important to women.

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Speaker 2: If you are a man and issues and issues are

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Speaker 2: important of women are important to you, you are welcome

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Speaker 2: to come.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: This is what makes it okay because it's not about

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Speaker 2: the setting up to who's invited and who's not based

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Speaker 2: on gender, but what is the platform, what is the

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Speaker 2: agenda here?

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Speaker 1: We have International Women's Day here right now, and we

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Speaker 1: are doing all these different panels, and it specifically says

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Speaker 1: men are invited, right.

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Speaker 5: They have to highlight that now.

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Speaker 3: Specifically says that right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then and then you have people who have different

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Speaker 2: philosophies about it. You'll have men who's like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I'm a feminist too, I want to be in the

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Speaker 2: room and I want to help. And then you'll have

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Speaker 2: other men who will say, you know what, this is

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Speaker 2: a private space for women for them to share and

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Speaker 2: maybe in an intimate setting with only things that they

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Speaker 2: believe that other women would share. I'm going to respect it,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just going to refrain. But you're invited, right.

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Speaker 2: But you're invited right exactly as long as it's not

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Speaker 2: a prohibition saying that you cannot come because you are

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Speaker 2: a male.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, this is just so much going on.

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Speaker 1: I do want to know in this era right now

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Speaker 1: of what's going on. It's a lot of things have

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Speaker 1: been unprecedented, a lot of things have been rolled back.

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Speaker 1: How has your job and what you do for people?

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Speaker 1: What are the shifts that you've seen?

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Speaker 2: Right? So, unfortunately, I'm busier than ever right And I

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Speaker 2: say that unfortunately because I would prefer not to be

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Speaker 2: doing this work. I would love if there was no discrimination,

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Speaker 2: no sexual harassment, and I was completely obsolete. That's actually

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Speaker 2: very much how our firm runs. We want to work

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Speaker 2: ourselves out of existence. But we are busier than ever

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Speaker 2: because now what people are doing is they're taking this

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Speaker 2: new anti DEI stance and they're using that to bolster

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Speaker 2: they're already existing prejudice and discrimination. So now they just

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Speaker 2: think that it's okay. They think that they're protected or

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Speaker 2: exactly they feel protected. And then on the other side,

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Speaker 2: those who are doing this work don't feel protected, right,

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Speaker 2: and they feel like they have to work on eggshells.

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Speaker 2: So that changes the level of aggression with which they

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Speaker 2: seek change. It changes with the type of programs that

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Speaker 2: they're putting forth and the kind of communities are that

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Speaker 2: they are supporting because everybody is running scared. So what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing is things like six hundred thousand black women

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Speaker 2: have been completely disenfranchised out of the workplace last year.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, we're talking about that before.

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Speaker 2: You, right. So they're like, why is that? Why is that?

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Speaker 2: Why is that? You know, why is that the case? They're, well,

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Speaker 2: let's look at it. Statistics say that black women are

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Speaker 2: the most educated demographic in the United States. So if

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Speaker 2: we're if this is all truly based on a meritocracy,

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Speaker 2: you would find that the qualifications are there, the education

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Speaker 2: and there. Why is it in matching up? Because what

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Speaker 2: people are doing is because they are rolling back the support,

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Speaker 2: the resources, the financing, the head counts on these DEI programs.

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Speaker 2: They're doing that to a lot of the time. You'll

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Speaker 2: find that black women are the one and onlies right,

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Speaker 2: they're the one and only females in this, or they're

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Speaker 2: the one and only black person in this so as

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Speaker 2: not to you know, rival the iriy of the administration,

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Speaker 2: people are pulling back those things too. So then what

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Speaker 2: one after the other, one after the other, Each one

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Speaker 2: of these individuals are ending up without a job under

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Speaker 2: the excuse of the temperature has changed the political climate

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Speaker 2: has shifted. I cannot tell you how many women who

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Speaker 2: I who I have counsel, who have received letters that

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Speaker 2: have literally said, the political climate has shifted in regards

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Speaker 2: to your blah blah blah, and therefore we are going

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Speaker 2: to be expending resources and X, Y and z on

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Speaker 2: other things, on other things.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the most unqualified people work in our government.

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Speaker 5: That's crazy at that part, right, It's.

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Speaker 1: Like because I think they make it seem like DEI

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Speaker 1: means it's unqualified people in positions, when the two to

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Speaker 1: the matter is that for the bottom line, diversity with

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Speaker 1: qualified people in those positions is great for any company,

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Speaker 1: and numbers reflect that, right, And so that's what's really

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Speaker 1: wild to me because it doesn't mean that you're not

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Speaker 1: qualified to be.

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Speaker 2: There, absolutely all of that. The only thing that d

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Speaker 2: I really means is that you're going to be taking

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Speaker 2: a look.

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Speaker 3: At Yeah, that's all.

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Speaker 2: You still have to meet all the criteria for the job.

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Speaker 2: It just means that you're otherwise going to take a

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Speaker 2: look at you know what It's like, It's let's consider

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Speaker 2: it like this. The three of us are friends and

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Speaker 2: we have a company, and I say, Angela, who does

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Speaker 2: your marketing, and you were like, oh, I know so

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Speaker 2: and so so and so does my marketing, who does

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Speaker 2: your whatever? And you're like, oh, so and so, so

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Speaker 2: and so does my security. These are people who you

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Speaker 2: have relationships with. It is not it wouldn't be uncommon

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Speaker 2: for the person who does your marketing to be a

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Speaker 2: person of color, or for the person who does your

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Speaker 2: security to be a female. And now we continue to

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Speaker 2: work and expand on our own, you know, based on

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Speaker 2: our own networks. This is what naturally happens. What the

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Speaker 2: I is forcing companies to say is like, you know what, Angela,

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Speaker 2: I can't just rely on your recommendation for a marketing

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Speaker 2: person or your recommendation for a security person. We are

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Speaker 2: three women of color already in this in this in

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Speaker 2: in in this company. We think there would be value

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Speaker 2: to have other voices, maybe different religions, maybe different genders,

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Speaker 2: maybe different raisestives, with different perspectives that we think that

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Speaker 2: would be a value. So instead of us just you know,

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Speaker 2: kicking it to you know, the one anybody who we

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Speaker 2: have on our rollodecks, We're going to make a deliberate

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Speaker 2: effort and reach out to as many qualified marketing people

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Speaker 2: as many qualified security people as we can so that

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Speaker 2: we can get a robust, you know, like roster of

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Speaker 2: individuals to look at, so we can do it the

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Speaker 2: best way for you know, at the table, that's all

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Speaker 2: the DEI is saying. There is literally nothing more than that.

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Speaker 2: The only thing that inclusion does that's a little bit

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Speaker 2: more is it makes us always think of other case

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Speaker 2: in point, is this studio open on Christmas Day on

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Speaker 2: December twenty fifth?

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Speaker 1: I think it is, Yeah, okay, bad example, And I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, but.

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't surprise me if it was closed on Christmas Day, right,

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Speaker 2: because we live in the US and predominantly we are

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Speaker 2: very like Christian focused, like you know, around that focus.

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Speaker 2: For somebody who's Jewish, for somebody who's who's Muslim, for

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Speaker 2: somebody who's Buddhist, they have other holidays that they that

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Speaker 2: they don't get a day off. Yeah. So then you say,

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Speaker 2: you know, as inclusion, you know, as part of our

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Speaker 2: our commitment to inclusion, we know a Buddhists, you know,

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Speaker 2: Buddhist holidays exists, and Jewish holidays exists. Instead of everybody

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Speaker 2: just getting off on Christmas, everybody has a floating holiday

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Speaker 2: and whatever religion or whatever they want to use it for.

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Speaker 2: They use it if you know, if it's for Hanukkah,

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Speaker 2: it's for if it's for Duwali, whatever it is you

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Speaker 2: use it for. That's inclusion. That's just taking into considering

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Speaker 2: into consideration. You know what, there are other people besides it.

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Speaker 3: Everybody is not me exactly right, and.

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Speaker 2: This may be important to them. Let me take a

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Speaker 2: look at that.

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Speaker 3: Marjorie. What got you into this particular specialty.

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Speaker 2: I mean it kind of fell into my lap a

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Speaker 2: little bit. I when I was in law school, I

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Speaker 2: loved con law, constitutional law. I thought like all about

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Speaker 2: the civil rights movements and religious freedoms and all those

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Speaker 2: types of cases. I love those because I felt like

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Speaker 2: they touched everybody's like life in a way that was

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Speaker 2: really impactful and fundamental. And I could always get like,

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Speaker 2: really impassioned about it. But what really drives me in

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Speaker 2: this particular work is that I hate bullies. I hate bullies.

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Speaker 2: And because money makes the world go round, and because

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Speaker 2: money is what we use to feed our families, to

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Speaker 2: run our lifestyles, to pursue our dreams, our employers are

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Speaker 2: in a very unique position in our lives. They hold

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Speaker 2: a lot of power over us. And don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 2: not every employer is bad, right. There are great employers

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Speaker 2: who they work with their employees. They're like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: you bring something to us, we bring something to you,

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Speaker 2: and they make it balanced and fair. But the overwhelming

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Speaker 2: majority is that people are disproportionately you know, imbalanced with

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Speaker 2: their employers. And a lot of people abuse that, and

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Speaker 2: they abuse it by making people do things that they

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Speaker 2: know that they should not be they should not be doing.

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Speaker 2: They abuse use it by taking credit for other people's work,

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Speaker 2: by diminishing other people's work. You know. Again, if we

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Speaker 2: went back to the you know, the company, the fake

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Speaker 2: company that we were starting, maybe Angela's like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: my marketing person is also my cousin, so we got

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Speaker 2: to hire her or him or whomever, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to bring them in. And I said, but maybe your

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Speaker 2: cousin doesn't know what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: So we're going probably not right, So now we're going to.

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Speaker 2: Use this other marketing company, make them do all the work,

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Speaker 2: pay them half the money, and my cousin and there

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Speaker 2: is the one who's going to be reaping all the benefits. Right,

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Speaker 2: This is just normal human dynamic.

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Speaker 3: And sometimes people feel like it just is what it is.

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Speaker 3: This is corporate America. Deal with it.

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Speaker 1: And so the question is how do people know when

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Speaker 1: it's an issue? Because I have to imagine that it is.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure we've all been in situations that we

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Speaker 1: felt like there's something wrong here. When is it when

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Speaker 1: people come to you? And sometimes people don't know is

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Speaker 1: this even a discrimination case?

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Speaker 4: And I just I had a personal just to piggyback

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Speaker 4: off of that and employe there was a speaking of

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Speaker 4: that power dynamic an employer of mine.

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Speaker 5: This isn't the past.

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Speaker 4: There was a person in power who hit on me right,

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Speaker 4: who made it very clear that they wanted to date me.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: I dismissed it, laughed it off, kept it moving.

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Speaker 5: A colleague he did the same thing to a colleague.

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Speaker 4: She reported it because she felt unsafe and harassed. When

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Speaker 4: is it actual harassment? Because for me, I kind of

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Speaker 4: felt like, you know, let me just you know, brush

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Speaker 4: his joker off, and so he trying to shoot his shot.

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Speaker 4: He isn't a position of power and I don't want

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Speaker 4: to jeopardize anything. So I was like, for in my mind,

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Speaker 4: I was just like, you know, it is what it is,

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Speaker 4: but she reported it and then did face some retaliation.

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Speaker 2: So the answer to both of your questions, Number one

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Speaker 2: is you really have to trust your instincts and intuition.

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Speaker 2: There is something that I feel that everybody feels when

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Speaker 2: something's going on that just doesn't feel right. They may

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Speaker 2: not know what it is right. They may not be

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Speaker 2: able to call it. They may not be able to

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Speaker 2: say it's discrimination, it's sexual harassment or whatever. But the

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Speaker 2: moment that you feel that something is not right, you

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Speaker 2: should trust your instinct and watch it. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: as soon as you think something's wrong that you go

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Speaker 2: running too hr And here's the difference. You have the

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Speaker 2: autonomy right to decide what you are comfortable with and

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Speaker 2: what you are not okay. So when it comes to

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Speaker 2: discrimination and harassment, there are two parts that the law

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Speaker 2: looks at. It looks at objectively if it's harassing, and

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Speaker 2: then they look at subjectively if it's harassing. Right, let's

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Speaker 2: look at the subjective part. As women, we get hit

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Speaker 2: on a lot, and if you are comfortable standing your

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Speaker 2: ground and standing your nose and saying no and leaving

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Speaker 2: it at that, it may not have offend you that

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Speaker 2: somebody even tried, right, But there are others who think

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Speaker 2: this is the workplace and it's completely inappropriate because of

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Speaker 2: this power dynamic for you to ever even approach me,

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Speaker 2: right and that person and that person has the right

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Speaker 2: in the autonomy to do that too. What makes it

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Speaker 2: actually harassment is the lack of consent. The fact that

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Speaker 2: she was hit on and complained that wouldn't have made

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Speaker 2: it harassment because if he asked the question and she

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Speaker 2: said no, and he accepted her no, then it's then

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Speaker 2: it's not harassment, right. But it's the retaliation that came

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Speaker 2: after she told them to know that made this a

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Speaker 2: wrong issue because she should not be penalized right for

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Speaker 2: saying her no.

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Speaker 3: But it wasn't for saying no, it's for reporting it, right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, once it got reported and escalated, she felt like

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Speaker 4: there was retaliation when it came to just opportunities and

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Speaker 4: just like the tone, the way.

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Speaker 2: She was treated, absolutelysolutely, and all of that is one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent illegal. She cannot be. She cannot be punished

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Speaker 2: for reporting it was. She cannot be. She cannot even

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Speaker 2: be punished for reporting it legitimately. But getting it wrong.

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Speaker 2: Let's say he wasn't even really hitting on her and

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Speaker 2: she got it wrong completely complained to HR. They did

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Speaker 2: an investigation and he said, oh, I wasn't hitting on her,

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Speaker 2: and they found out whatever, he really wasn't hitting on her.

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Speaker 2: But then he's like, but oh, you're gonna complain to

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Speaker 2: me to HR, I got your number. That's still retaliation

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Speaker 2: so long as the person had a good faith belief

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Speaker 2: that what they were complaining about was legitimate, that it

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Speaker 2: was legitimately sexual harassment, legitimately discriminatory. Going back to your

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Speaker 2: question now, when you were talking about like, how do

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Speaker 2: I know, how do I know when it's the right

386
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Speaker 2: time to complain when it starts taking away things like

387
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Speaker 2: from your your money, your package, the kind of pets

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Speaker 2: you're being assigned to. You know, you're in your case,

389
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Speaker 2: like the slot that you get. You go from being

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Speaker 2: you know, right in the middle of the day, did

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Speaker 2: something at four o'clock in the morning, You're like.

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Speaker 3: Wait a second.

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Speaker 2: You know, as soon as it starts to feel like

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Speaker 2: the way that you're being treated is not only along

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Speaker 2: the lines of race, gender or something like that, but

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Speaker 2: it also begins to impact the way you do your job,

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Speaker 2: how you show up for your job, how it impacts

398
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Speaker 2: your money, you're paid time off, your overall treatment and

399
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Speaker 2: everything like that. That's when it's time to really complain.

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Speaker 2: And I always encourage people take note. Take note. You

401
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: don't have to go to HR for each and every

402
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 2: single things. And there's so many things, even from a

403
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Speaker 2: technology perspective, that are really great. Like there's this app

404
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 2: called work Receipts right, So it's a free download app

405
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 2: that I recommence all of my clients and perspective clients.

406
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Speaker 2: You download it on your phone, it's free, you use

407
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: it and you can log in everything that's going on

408
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: at work. So maybe you just think that something's going on,

409
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: but you're not really sure. You're like, oh today they

410
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: didn't give me a lunch break. Oh today they took

411
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Speaker 2: a day, they put me on suspension. Oh today they

412
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 2: did X, Y and Z. So but now by the

413
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: time that you go to HR, you have a list

414
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Speaker 2: of things with date and time stamp of everything that happened.

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Speaker 2: Then it's up to HR to investigate to find out

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Speaker 2: if it is what you think that it is, because.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes people also feel like, well HR works

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Speaker 1: for the company.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but HR. You could go to HR. You can

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Speaker 2: go to a supervisor but if you don't go to

421
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,239
Speaker 2: somebody right and document and document it some way, then

422
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: there's no possible way that it's going to stop. Right,

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Speaker 2: And not in New York City, but in many other places.

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Speaker 2: If the if the company is not on notice, specifically

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Speaker 2: on notice that what's happening to you, then they're not liable.

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Speaker 3: Right because people are very hesitant, correct.

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Speaker 2: But in New York City, like if the if the

428
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Speaker 2: person who's doing the harassment is a supervisor, then the

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Speaker 2: company's automatically liable.

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Speaker 1: Now, Marjorie, I do want to switch gears a little

431
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: bit here because it's been so much going on in

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Speaker 1: the news and I just want to get from you.

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Speaker 1: You've dealt with so many different people and even us

434
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Speaker 1: thinking about everything, like with Diddy, because I know that

435
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: was something that you have a lot of information about.

436
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: But when we think about women who have been in

437
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: situations and men too, right and then people wait years,

438
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: decades to come forward, and I always see people say,

439
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: why didn't they say something when this happened. Why didn't

440
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: this person say something right away? Why are all these

441
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: people coming out of the woodworks now? And they think

442
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: it's just like this person was trying to buy a

443
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: network or you know, they always have a reason why.

444
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: I just want to get from you, from people that

445
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: you've spoken to. Why is it that people wait sometimes

446
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: so long before they even come forward with something that

447
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: might have happened a long time ago, And then a

448
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: lot of times it's a snowball effect.

449
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: Fear of retaliation, fear of not being believed, which is

450
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: actually a bigger fear then retaliation. You know how many

451
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: women have sat across from me and say, who's gonna

452
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: believe me? I'm a single mom, And I was like,

453
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 2: wait a second, let's roll this back. Your word is enough.

454
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: But not everybody gets treated like their word is enough.

455
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: There are people who believe that unless they can get

456
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: two or three to back up what they're saying, that

457
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: their word is not enough. This is where I feel

458
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: like the Me Too movement really did help. It showed

459
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: us that our word is enough. And when you speak out,

460
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: then you get courage to speak out. And you get

461
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: courage to speak out because if I'm the only one

462
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: who's suffering and I say nothing, all three of us

463
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: could be suffering from the same person. But when we

464
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: start to talk about it, there's a shared strength that

465
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: comes into it, and now we can advance forward because

466
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: they may be able to ignore me. But if it's

467
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: three or four or fifty, then it's harder to ignore.

468
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: So the fear of not being believed is so st

469
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: it's palpable.

470
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

471
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And sometimes legally it's also say somebody say you

472
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: sue for harassment and you don't win, then people think

473
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: that means you were lying and it didn't happen, when

474
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: a lot of times it just means you couldn't necessarily

475
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: prove that legally.

476
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: Right. And the thing is, and that's another thing too,

477
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: is that in most often in cases where there's sexual harassment,

478
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: it is always almost always a he said, she said,

479
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: she said, she said, right. It's always going to be

480
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: one person's word against the other. But that's what juries

481
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,199
Speaker 2: are for, right, And the jury can decide. I believe

482
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 2: you and I don't believe you. The idea that you

483
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: need that you need additional proof than your word is

484
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: not true. It's helpful, don't get me wrong. I cannot

485
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: understate that if you have a recording, a text, or

486
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: anything that supports you in any way, it's gonna be helpful.

487
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 2: But I tell clients who sit across me all the time,

488
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: you'll word is enough evidence. You're gonna be sworn under oath,

489
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: just like they're gonna be sworn under oath. They're gonna

490
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: say what happened in that room. You're gonna say what's

491
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: gonna happen in what happened in that room? And the

492
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 2: jury's gonna believe somebody.

493
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: You know, I'm so glad you said that that your

494
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: word is enough because in my mind I was like,

495
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 4: if it's not documented, how you have a witness? I

496
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 4: would never want to come forward because it's like you

497
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 4: said your word against another. But in the flip right

498
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 4: on another scenario, I have I know somebody who felt

499
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 4: retaliated against they were they had a workplace romance that

500
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 4: ended poorly and then he felt like the woman retaliated

501
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 4: by claiming that she was forced to do certain things

502
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 4: because he was in a position of power and it

503
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 4: really hurt him. And again it was his word against hers,

504
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 4: and there was context, right, there's nuance, it wasn't they

505
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 4: were in relationship. So in those type of circumstances, you know,

506
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 4: how do I don't want to say how does?

507
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 5: How can that the person in power be protected?

508
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 2: But what happens as as with anything, if you want

509
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: to protect your perspective, you always want to document it

510
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: in some way if you want to if you want

511
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: to protect your no, document your no, if you want

512
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 2: to protect their yes document there. Yes, it cuts both ways,

513
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: like that work received app that you know it's you know,

514
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: it cuts both ways. I say that because what's good

515
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: for the goose is good for the gander. Right, Overwhelmingly

516
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: people do not make up, you know, sexual harassments and

517
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: discriminatory claims, and overwhelming that is not the norm. But

518
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: we cannot ignore that that exists, right, right, So that's

519
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: why there has to be a legal process. That's why

520
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: there has to be a proof, and that's why a

521
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: jury gets to decide who's telling the truth and who

522
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: is not. There are attorneys who will not take cases

523
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: that is only blased on their client's word, no matter

524
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 2: how good they think that it is, they just simply

525
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: will not do it. And that's where people get the

526
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: messaging that their word is not enough, right because the

527
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: more I'm able to establish what you said with something

528
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: other than your word, my risk goes down. If you

529
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: told me he said this and he said that, and

530
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: you show me a text, I don't even have to

531
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: believe you. The jury doesn't even need to like you.

532
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: It's in a text.

533
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, exactly, you know exactly.

534
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 2: That's all really the proof they need. But now if

535
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 2: I go through this entire process and we get to

536
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: the jury, and now the jury doesn't like you, and

537
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 2: all I have is your word.

538
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 3: That's a whole.

539
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 2: That's a high risk. That's high risk, high reward. It

540
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: could go either way. It could go either way.

541
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this too, because here's another

542
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: thing in the work that I do and seeing what

543
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: people have to say. Civil cases where people are, you know,

544
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: trying to get a settlement for a cent amount of

545
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: money or get paid. People also tend to look at

546
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: that as this person's just trying to get a payday, right,

547
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: And so I want you to break that down to

548
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: because I feel like there's a misconception about why people

549
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: file civil cases.

550
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 2: First, right, So not everything that is discriminatory or harassing

551
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: is criminal. Not everything that's discriminatory or harassing is criminal.

552
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: So criminal has one standard above a reasonable doubt, right

553
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the standard for criminals. So

554
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: that's high. Right beyond a reasonable doubt is if we're

555
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: gonna do in percentages, let's say reason beyond a reasonable

556
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: doubt is probably like eighty five percent, sure, right, civil

557
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: where you know what you get is money, not not

558
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: jail or anything like that. That standard, that standard is

559
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: more likely than not forty nine fifty one.

560
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 3: Okay.

561
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: So if I'm like, so, if you have to prove

562
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: your case seventy five eighty five versus forty forty nine

563
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 2: to fifty one, which one you're gonna go for? You're

564
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: gonna go for the forty nine to fifty one because

565
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: it's easier, particularly if it's a he said, she said

566
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: type of thing. So many times even that acts that

567
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: are harassing and criminal, prosecutors will decline to prosecute, or

568
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 2: they won't charge them at the top charge. They'll do

569
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: it at a lower charge, for all sorts of reasons.

570
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: These these positions are politically elected. They have their own stats,

571
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: you know, stats and stuff that they have to do.

572
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: There's all sorts of reasons why they don't they decide

573
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: not to prosecute. And if at every time that somebody,

574
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: you know, you know, somebody's ego was hurt and they

575
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: were turned down and they did something, you know, and

576
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: they did something and it was prosecuted each and every time,

577
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: then the courts would be overrun with that that sort

578
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: of thing. Right, So on the civil side, it gives

579
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: you an opportunity for there to be accountability, but instead

580
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: of somebody else deciding for you whether or not that

581
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 2: person is going to be prosecuted, you are the one

582
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: who gets to decide how much money is enough money,

583
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: And if neither one of you can decide that, then

584
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: the jury decides if any money is worth it at all.

585
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: So that's why civil is an attractive is an attractive

586
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: alternative because you are the one who makes the decision,

587
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: not a prosecutor, and you're the one who gets to

588
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: say how much is enough, not enough, not not a

589
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: third party. Now, a lot of people will say the

590
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: other part of it with with the civil prosecution is

591
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: you have an opportunity to resolve it and nobody even

592
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: know about it. That's that's good for the person who's

593
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: been attacked and the person who who's allegedly did the attacking,

594
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: because the last thing the same way that the that

595
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: a lot of people that the same way that Diddy

596
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: is getting dragged to the mud for all of the allegations.

597
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: There are Diddy accusers who are equally being dragged through

598
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: the mundy, yes, even for even being bringing you know,

599
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: bringing up the accusation. So a lot of people decide said,

600
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't want to deal with that.

601
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: This is this is something that impacted me. I'm in therapy,

602
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: I can't work anymore. I need money for my medical bills,

603
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: I need money to live. I'm gonna suit for this.

604
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: It's gonna be quiet, and then it's all done. And

605
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that.

606
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: I feel like people tend to look down on you

607
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: if you get a payment like a settlement, yeah, and

608
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: have something to say about that, and you not want

609
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: to bring this back to our theme for International Women's Day,

610
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: Give to gain and mentorship, And I want to talk

611
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: about women giving their knowledge and support to one another

612
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: and how that is. How can we do that more

613
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: right in the workplace and things you've seen.

614
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I think that we're doing it right now,

615
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: just actively and earnestly participating in these conversations and saying,

616
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: you know what the resources I have are available to you.

617
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: I don't get keep I don't get keep with what

618
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: I know. I don't get keep with the information that's

619
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: available to me. If you tell me so and so

620
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 2: has a problem of I'm like, okay, let's do it.

621
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: Let's let's I'm going to roll up my sleeves and

622
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: get in. That's the level. That's the level of collaboration

623
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: effort that that women are really you know, leaning into

624
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: all the way and it's and the momentum on this

625
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: is incredibly signed. The same way that I can say

626
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: the stat of six hundred thousand black women have been

627
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: forced out of the workplace is that the other millions

628
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: of black women in that same workplace are ushering their

629
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: sisters in and using all of their power, dynamics, information

630
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: connections to help them come right back into the market

631
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: marketplace again, because what we've realized is that collaboration is

632
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: better than competition.

633
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: Right and you know, along those lines, even being able

634
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: to discuss salaries, because I know that's another conversation in

635
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: the workplace when it comes to discrimination, and so I

636
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: think that's important too for us to be able to

637
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: discuss with each other what we're getting paid for things.

638
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: So what we're getting paid, what kind of packages that

639
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: are you know, that are available, what worked for us,

640
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: what didn't work for us because at the same time,

641
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: it the mentality I think before used to be I

642
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: have to keep this close to the vest because if

643
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: I don't, then what I have is going to be attacked.

644
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: What we've realized, what we have is going to be

645
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: attacked regardless, right, there is no protection of that. So

646
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: the only way we're going to protect ourselves is if

647
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: we're all on one accord and we know that this

648
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: is the standard, and we're not accepting any less, then

649
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 2: we force the hand. We forced the hand on the

650
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: other side to say, now you can't mess with either

651
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 2: you know, either three of us because now we're all

652
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: exchanging information.

653
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 4: Wasn't there laws or policies that prevented employees from talking

654
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 4: about salaries?

655
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 5: And wasn't that lifted a few years ago?

656
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 2: Actually it's actually quite it's actually quite the opposite. Under

657
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: the NLRB, your your ability to talk about your salary

658
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: and workplace conditions is a right that you cannot that

659
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: can you cannot be terminated for, you cannot be disciplined for,

660
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 2: or anything of like. You have that right in any

661
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: workplace to discuss both the conditions of your workplace. And

662
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: that's not just like discrimination and harassment. I'm talking about

663
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: safe you know, I'm talking about like ethics and salary

664
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: are all completely protected if you are being if you

665
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: are being terminated or disciplined for these for these types

666
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: of for these types of discussions, you should definitely speak

667
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: to an attorney about possible retaliation because that is a

668
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: right that every every employee has in the workplace.

669
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate this guy.

670
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: I feel like this was a great empowering conversation for

671
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,919
Speaker 1: people who are listening. We've had so many people call

672
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: in just to talk about things that have happened in

673
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: the workplace what should I do and felt like there's

674
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: nothing that they could do, but to know that these

675
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: are the steps you could take. And one thing I

676
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: want to say that I got from all of this

677
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: is document, document, document.

678
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: What is that app again? Work receipts, work receipts periods?

679
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: You know they bring the receipts.

680
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: Exactly that I think that but no, but but exactly

681
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: document document. Listen, seventy percent of Americans with paycheck to

682
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 2: paycheck seventy percent. That means most people, seventy percent of

683
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: people are one paycheck away from missing their rents, not

684
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: being able to put food on the table, just so

685
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: people are desperate to keep their jobs, which is another

686
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: reason why I always tell my clients there are no

687
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: friends at work, and it's like no, I mean, it

688
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: is a fact because at the end of the day,

689
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: we could all be we could all be cool, we

690
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: can key key it up as much as we want,

691
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: but it's like, uh, you know, somebody's getting fired or

692
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: somebody's like everybody's protecting their own because at the end

693
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: of the day, my check is not going to pay

694
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: for yours, right and my check is not going to

695
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: pay for yours. So there is this idea of like

696
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: protecting you know, protecting themselves and protecting their own. Documenting

697
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: is one of those ways.

698
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, one of my biggest takeaways is your word is enough.

699
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 4: So hopefully that will encourage people if anything is happening,

700
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 4: speak up, you know, you know, how can they get

701
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 4: in contact with you or maybe somebody a local lawyer

702
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 4: or attorney, Like what type of help of resources are

703
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 4: out there for people.

704
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: Who only have their right Fortunately, a majority of employment

705
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 2: discrimination attorneys are contingency based, which means they will take

706
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: your case without you having a paying money up front.

707
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: Good to know and Most of the time consultations are free.

708
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: It costs you nothing to call an attorney for a

709
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: free consultation to figure out say is this a thing

710
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: or is it not enough? If you get an attorney

711
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: that cares. Because for us, particularly at Mesodor PLC, we

712
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: are big with decline with dignity. I may not take

713
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: your case because I have six attorneys at my firm.

714
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: We can't take every case, right, we have to pick

715
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: and choose. But I'm not going to just decline you

716
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 2: and leave you high and dry. You're gonna walk away

717
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: with resources. You're gonna walk away with more information on

718
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: how to how to pursue this yourself. You may even

719
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 2: walk away with information on how to speak to the

720
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: next attorney about what it is that you have going on.

721
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: And if all attorneys do the same thing, then a

722
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: people would be a lot would be a lot better

723
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: off it because most of the time, what they're like, oh,

724
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: you don't have a text, Oh sorry, it can't help you.

725
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: I said, really, this person just open up to you

726
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: and said that their body was touched, right, and you

727
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 2: just said you don't. You don't have any proof. We're

728
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: just gonna leave them high and dard then what's the point.

729
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: What's the point of being an attorney? Right? This is

730
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: why I don't gate keep, because then then then our

731
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: positions mean nothing. What's the point of being a black

732
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 2: woman attorney? If I gate keep right? Absolutely all my information,

733
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: everything that's in here is available to all of you

734
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 2: and then some all our sisters, brothers, you know, on

735
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: all sides. When you think about policy too, are there

736
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: things that you would like to see happen? Oh? Yeah,

737
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: there's so many things I would love to see happen.

738
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: One thing that I would sure love to see happen

739
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: is after you do all the hard work and you

740
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: actually win the case and you get a jury verdict.

741
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: I would love it if they couldn't send it back

742
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: to the judge and say, Judge, we think the jury

743
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: gave them too much. And the judge says, I think

744
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: you're right. We're just gonna slash it down remitted her.

745
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: So that's another thing that makes it very discouraging. You

746
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 2: can go through all that, Yes, your word is enough,

747
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: you win. They believe you, they're on your side. They

748
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 2: give you exactly how much you need for you to

749
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: get your therapy and for you to be out of work.

750
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: For some time for you to get yourself together, and

751
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: then for the other side to say, you know what,

752
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: we're gonna prolong it even more. You know, everyone does

753
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: that exactly in addition to the two years that it

754
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: took you to even get to a jury verdict. Now

755
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: we're gonna go to the judge and we're gonna do

756
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 2: a post trial motion, and we're gonna say the judge,

757
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: we think that they gave them too much. And the

758
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: judge may say one person can undo what a jury

759
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: just did. And I don't think that when you have

760
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: a jury of twelve people who sit down and look

761
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 2: at your client in their eye, they see the tears

762
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: in their face, they hear the breath when they testify,

763
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: that their assessment of how much that person should should

764
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: get is gonna be diminished by another judge that's just

765
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: looking at a transcript. They don't know when she said yes,

766
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: if she was bawling, crying yes. They don't know whether

767
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: she could barely contain herself. They don't know. So that

768
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 2: is one thing that I would love to see changed,

769
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: is that remitted her would not be would not be

770
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 2: a pathway that defendants can use all the time, all

771
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: the time, but you don't really hear about it. You

772
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 2: always hear about the big verdict. People will tell you, oh,

773
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: didn't Tesla get one hundred million something verdict for race discrimination?

774
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 2: Most people don't know that that was slash.

775
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't have to pay.

776
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: It was it was slash. And then when they slash it,

777
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: they slashed it to something so small. I've seen seven

778
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: figure awards go down to a couple a couple of

779
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 2: tens of thousands.

780
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: That's wild and that's discouraging. Can you imagine how that

781
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: feels to somebody?

782
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: Right exactly? And this is where, like you know, our

783
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: continued conversation regarding the EI is important. Who those judges

784
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: are important, The fact that you know, is it an

785
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 2: elected judge or is it an appointed judge for life?

786
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: Point of judges for life. They come from a particular pedigree, right,

787
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: the best schools, the best, this the best best, best best.

788
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: And they may be a little bit removed, I don't

789
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: want to say out of touch, right, but they may

790
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: be a little bit more removed from the average workers,

791
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: the average workers plight versus somebody who may be elected.

792
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: They got to grind for their Yeah, you know, they

793
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: have to grind for there, they have to choose exactly

794
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: they're they're more in sync with the people, so it's

795
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: you know, it's different, but you don't get to pick

796
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 2: and choose.

797
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: This feels like a TV show, you know what I'm saying,

798
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: We have reasonable doubt, what's the what's the Marjorie Mezidors,

799
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: just because I do feel like I could see all

800
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: of these different scenarios playing out and then see somebody

801
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: getting a verdict, and you know, I just I just

802
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: see it in my head, right Yeah. But I also

803
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: think watching shows like that is what helps people feel

804
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: like they have more information and knowledge too.

805
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely. And the other thing that people don't talk

806
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 2: about is what does it mean to be representing a

807
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: marginalized population? Why you yourself are a marginal population and

808
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: the secondary trauma that comes from.

809
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 3: That, Oh my gosh, I can't even imagine.

810
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: Because then you're fighting multiple battles. Right, I'm not only

811
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 2: fighting for you and your and your situation in the

812
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: justice system. I'm fighting my adversary to be taken seriously.

813
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: I may be fighting the judge to be taken seriously.

814
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: I may be doing all of these things simultaneously. So

815
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 2: this is why again, gate keeping benefits no one.

816
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: Absolutely not, it benefits no one. I know you have

817
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: had to have had some heartbreaking moments.

818
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely there are there are cases that I still have

819
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: nightmares about.

820
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: Wow.

821
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: There are people who are on the opposite side of

822
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: this work, who are management side, who make it their

823
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: business to punish those who bring up cases of discrimination

824
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: and sexual harassment. So they punish them by using the process.

825
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 2: They make sure that the litigation process is the most uncomfortable,

826
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: like raw, gut wrenching thing. And that's how they make

827
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: a name for themselves, and that's how they make a

828
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: name for their companies, right, And this is why companies

829
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: will hire them, because they'll know that somebody will think

830
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: twice about bringing a sexual harassment claim because they know

831
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: that their attorney is gonna gut is gonna try to

832
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: gut them at the root, regardless of whether or not

833
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: it's true. And that to me is so disgusting because

834
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 2: I you know, you work with somebody, When you go

835
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 2: through something with somebody like there's an affinity there. Sometimes

836
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: the client comes to me and they're telling me things

837
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 2: that they don't even tell their spouse exactly exactly. They

838
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: tell you things that they don't tell their spouses, their friends,

839
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: their mothers. Sometimes none of those people even know it's

840
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 2: coming out until you're getting ready to file a public case.

841
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 2: And that's why deciding to file a public case is

842
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: such a big, big, big decision.

843
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: People act like it's not just to even understand.

844
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: And like you said earlier when we were discussing why

845
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: people may wait, it is also at a time when

846
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: you may feel safe enough, strong enough, you know, just

847
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: in a space where you're like okay, because it's a

848
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: big deal. It is like it can be life changing.

849
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 4: And I hear a lot of survivors saying they don't

850
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 4: want to relive that, like once they're out of the situation,

851
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 4: they want to move forward where they want to move forward.

852
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 5: They definitely don't want to go to trial and talk

853
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 5: about it.

854
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 4: Like we saw what happened with cassieven she was like

855
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 4: eight nine months.

856
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 5: Pregnant and had to relive all of that.

857
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 4: So there are a lot of different reasons why people

858
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 4: don't you know, speak up at that time.

859
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: Right, Not only that, it's just like we don't even

860
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: need to take it that far. You could be a

861
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: regular person and you saw you filed the lawsuit. You're

862
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 2: out on a date and the person googled you and

863
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: they find your lawsuit.

864
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: Oh that's a good point, baby, you know. And now

865
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 3: friends go on days I'd be looking up all I said,

866
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: what's his name?

867
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, And now they have like information and like this.

868
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: A lot of this stuff can be damning. Yeah, it

869
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: can be damning. It can be right, And the law

870
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: is evolving every day requiring you to put more detailed,

871
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: more facts in these pleadings, in these lawsuits. It used

872
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: to be you could do a short and simple statement

873
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: of the facts. So and so it's working here. Blah

874
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: blah blah. They were asked out, they declined, they were

875
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: retaliate against that. You could use the very bare minimum.

876
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: Now they're asking you, no, we need more detail, we

877
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 2: need specificity. So then now attorneys are throwing everything in there.

878
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 2: And a lot of this stuff is intimate. Yeah, it

879
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: is intimate. And even if it's something as small, and

880
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: I'm saying small on a relative scale, right, as a

881
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: forced kiss, Right, who wants the first introduction that you

882
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: have with the person is to know that their boss

883
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: forcibly kissed them. Right, shouldn't you get to decide when

884
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: that comes out and how that comes out.

885
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 4: Why there's so many requirements for those extra intimate details.

886
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: Because the law is saying that the defendant needs to

887
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 2: be reasonably unnotice on what it is that they're being

888
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: accused about. They really need to know. They have to

889
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: have an understanding. If I'm being sued for sexual harassment,

890
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: what did I do that was sexually harassing? They want

891
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: a full list, and they want everything. And when your

892
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: complaint is not detailed, the presumption is it's made up.

893
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

894
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,479
Speaker 2: But when your complaint is more detailed time Basically, you guys,

895
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 2: remember that Cassie complaint, Yeah, that she filing out, Well,

896
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: how many pages was that?

897
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: She was telling all kind of stuff that I felt so.

898
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, because we were like, I felt bad she

899
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 4: had to disclose all of those details.

900
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 5: But you're saying she had to in order to make

901
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 5: her case.

902
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: What I'm saying to you is the fact that her

903
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: pleadings were so detailed it becomes very hard to ignore. Yeah, right,

904
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: So the remember, the other side is always going to

905
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: be like, oh, she's just looking for money. You know,

906
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 2: she had a failed career and that's why she's coming out.

907
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 2: And you know they're always throwing these things when you're like,

908
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 2: but page seventy five says and this, and then what

909
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: what happens? People start fact checking. They're like, she was

910
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: at that party and he was there too, and I

911
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: do remember when his car blew up, and I do remember.

912
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: And then because of all those details, then her word

913
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 2: gets starts to get a little bit more exactly, it

914
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: gets a little heavier. This is why attorneys, This is

915
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: why attorneys do it. Did she have to go to

916
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 2: those to that's painstaking detail in order for it not

917
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 2: to be dismissed because there wasn't enough detail? Maybe not,

918
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not gonna you know, Monday night quarterback? Right?

919
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: Maybe not? But did it help? Absolutely? Absolutely? Somebody's like,

920
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 2: even if she was lying, she was lying about all

921
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: whatever to her page, she.

922
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 3: Was giving her own exactly why right exactly?

923
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 5: She put herself in a light that was not too

924
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 5: flattering herself. Do that?

925
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: And what do we always say authentic The city translates

926
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: truth translate. You won't know what the American public will

927
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: accept as being okay and not being okay, but just

928
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: be you, because one thing that we won't tolerate is

929
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: that hypocrisy or lying or whatever. But if you're like, yeah,

930
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: I did that, and I did that too, but he

931
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: definitely did this and this this has happened, that gives

932
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: more credibility. It gives more credibility to say that it

933
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: was X, Y and Z.

934
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: What about the Adult Survivors Act when when that? I

935
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: want to know what your thoughts were on that and

936
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: what kind of workloads you had during that time.

937
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: So during the time of the Adult Survivors Act, workloads

938
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: for all plaintive side attorneys definitely went up. Because what

939
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: it did is it reopened the statute of limitations on

940
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: old claims and revived them for a short window of time.

941
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: So anything from basically the beginning of time all the

942
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: way through, so long as it was filed within this

943
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: window and met this specific criteria. And I'm not going

944
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: to bore you with all the with all the details,

945
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 2: and you could at least bring the claim right. Something

946
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: like the ASA is so invaluable because it recognizes that

947
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: people don't come forward because they're afraid, because they're afraid

948
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: of retaliation, they're afraid of not being believed, and because

949
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: they're afraid that the people who did this to them

950
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 2: have a way of hurting them again. But since me

951
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: too in particular, and me too wasn't the only time

952
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: there was like this reckoning, right, but me too in

953
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: maybe like our most recent history in particular started happening.

954
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: We realized for those of us who didn't already know

955
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: how commonplace it is having conversations. I do this work,

956
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: and I found out things about aunts and cousins, and

957
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: I was like, but you know, why wouldn't you ever?

958
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: People don't talk about it because they are afraid of

959
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: not being believed. So what this is doing is says, listen,

960
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 2: stand that it's difficult. We are reopening it for this

961
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: period of time so that you can hold individuals accountable

962
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 2: that perhaps you couldn't have. We. I remember having clients

963
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 2: come to me with letters from there from people who

964
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: assaulted them, apologizing waiting after the Statute of limitations.

965
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 3: Because they knew they were safe.

966
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: That they were safe, and they're just walking around with

967
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: the with the person who assault them's letter, like and

968
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: it would be like in their in their purse pocket.

969
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: It goes everywhere they go and they're like, what can

970
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: I do about this? Well, during the ASA, you could

971
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: do something about it, right. Unfortunately, now it's closed, it's sunseted.

972
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,280
Speaker 2: It doesn't you know it, you know, and it doesn't

973
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: look like they're they're going to do around too.

974
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 3: But that was a crazy time, but it wasn't.

975
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: It was a crazy time. But the thing is is that, yeah,

976
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: people should be afraid, and yeah, I think twice.

977
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: You never know exactly that you got away with something.

978
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: Don't do it because I always hear people saying, oh,

979
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: always the time period, Oh everybody was like that. Oh,

980
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 1: And I hate that when people say it's just what

981
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: people did, it's just how we acted. It was just

982
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 1: what the workplace was like during that time.

983
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: And certain things are if you're a stand up individual

984
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: or never appropriate.

985
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 4: And you know, another thing I really don't like is

986
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 4: when you hear people saying, well, you can't believe women.

987
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 5: A lot of them are lying and they're going after

988
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 5: the money.

989
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 2: Believe.

990
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 4: Do you have statistics that that tell how many cases

991
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 4: are actually not true or proven not true versus you know,

992
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 4: is there like.

993
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 3: Because that's not true.

994
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,439
Speaker 1: I don't mean it's not true sometimes exactly, but people

995
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: coming forward and saying I lied, right, Yeah.

996
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 4: But isn't it just like the mast majority are true,

997
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,760
Speaker 4: are legitimate overwhelmingly.

998
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 2: We're talking about less than ten percent.

999
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 5: So less than ten percent.

1000
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 2: Percent. I don't like to throw out numbers on out

1001
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,479
Speaker 2: there that I'm not like sure on, so I can't

1002
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: be like it's eight or it's two. But I know

1003
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 2: that it's less than ten percent.

1004
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: And I tell you what, there's way more people that

1005
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: will never come forward than people who have come forward

1006
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: or people who you.

1007
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 3: Know it's not true.

1008
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that number is multitudes exponentially more than

1009
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: people who have actually even come forward to tell their story.

1010
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: They say that seventy five percent of individuals do not

1011
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 2: come forward about sexual harassment in the workplace, specifically sexual

1012
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 2: five percent. So that means so that means no matter

1013
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 2: how much sexual harassment that HR departments know about, just

1014
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 2: know that there's actually three times more.

1015
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 5: Wow.

1016
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 3: All right, well, I appreciate you.

1017
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: This was a whole power for us, But it does

1018
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: feel like we got some amazing valuable information. Hopefully people

1019
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: who are listening, if there's something that you've been contemplating,

1020
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: or some first steps you know you need to take,

1021
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: this is your sign to go ahead and make those

1022
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,400
Speaker 1: first steps. And you know, I appreciate you for sharing

1023
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: all of this invaluable information with us.

1024
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. Thank you ladies for shedding

1025
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 2: a light on this.

1026
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 3: And you're going to continue to be a resource for

1027
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 3: us on way up.

1028
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely so, we think that you need.

1029
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 3: We are grateful for this. Thank you so much.

1030
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 4: Thank you