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Speaker 1: Rich One and more recognition from me. I really didn't

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Speaker 1: give a fuck anymore. I thought that was on an

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Speaker 1: island by myself. So I named rich president and I'm

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Speaker 1: like you running, go ahead, do what you gotta do.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, I truly hit it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Idea Generations All Angles, a podcast about culture's

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Speaker 2: most influential brands and the teams that build them. If

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Speaker 2: you're an entrepreneur, creative, or anyone interested in harnessing the

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Speaker 2: power of collaboration, join me Noah Callahan Bever each week

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Speaker 2: as we dissect the most dynamic companies in culture. Because

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Speaker 2: the only way to truly understand success is to look

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Speaker 2: at it from all angles. Idea Generations All Angles is

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Speaker 2: a Will Packer Media podcast. Welcome back for part two

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Speaker 2: of our two part Lab Record Story. After starting with

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Speaker 2: a novelty act in Tongue Twister and having been through

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Speaker 2: the industry, Ringer Lad Records founder Steve Rifkin and Rich

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Speaker 2: Isaacson had finally gained some footing with their breakthrough release

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Speaker 2: Wu Tang Clan's debut Long Player, entered the thirty six Chambers.

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Speaker 2: With that success under their belt, Lab were officially players

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Speaker 2: in the game, But neither the staff nor the artist

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Speaker 2: had any idea just how big the label was about

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Speaker 2: to become or how quickly it would all unravel. But

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Speaker 2: before life would come at them fast, the Loud Gang

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Speaker 2: were still reveling in Wu Tang Clan's sudden stardom. This

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Speaker 2: is Rich Isaacson, co founder of Laud Records.

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Speaker 3: I think we did thirty thousand the first week, which

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Speaker 3: was a massive number in those days over the counter.

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Speaker 3: Then it just kept every week, another twenty five, another thirty.

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Speaker 1: We hit fifty thousand. I think in ten days.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like now when a hip hop record would

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Speaker 3: come out, do a huge first week and then the

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Speaker 3: second week would decline sixty percent or seventy percent.

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Speaker 4: Wu Tang just was solid for like a year, just.

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Speaker 3: Kept going and going, and it became this underground massive

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Speaker 3: phenomenon and brought New York hip hop back. The pendulum

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Speaker 3: had swung from New York to La and Doctor Dre

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Speaker 3: and Snoop Dogg, and there was a whole West Coast

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Speaker 3: movement dominating hip hop. So Wu Tang was really completely raw,

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Speaker 3: completely New York and resonated not just in New York,

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Speaker 3: surprisingly resonated in the South, but in the West Coast.

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Speaker 2: As the Wu Tang phenomenon broke nationally, Maddy C, still

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Speaker 2: the writer in New York City at The Source Magazine,

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Speaker 2: remained close with his college buddy Scott Free DNR and

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Speaker 2: Wu Tang's inside man at the label. Together, the two

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Speaker 2: started plotting on signing Loud's next act, a teenage duo

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Speaker 2: from Queensbridge known as Mob Deep. Just like Wu Tang,

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Speaker 2: the duo debuted on another label, missed the mark creatively

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Speaker 2: and flopped commercially, but Matt and Scott had been tracking

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Speaker 2: them for years and knew where things had gone wrong.

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Speaker 5: There was a lot of excitement about the Source, almost

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Speaker 5: more so than record labels.

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Speaker 2: This is Matti C, writer at The Source magazine and

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Speaker 2: eventual director of A and R at Loud.

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Speaker 5: And I think there were a lot of artists up

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Speaker 5: and coming perspective Unsigned who felt like the Source had

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Speaker 5: people up there who understood hip hop more than a

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Speaker 5: lot of the record labels did. Demos were just getting

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Speaker 5: mailed in because of the fact that the audience understood

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Speaker 5: that we got it and that we might be able

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Speaker 5: to provide some sort of access.

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Speaker 6: Matt did an Unsigned hype column that was just dedicated

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Speaker 6: to like talking about MC's that were coming up.

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Speaker 2: This is Scott Free, director of an R Loud.

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Speaker 6: Records Poetical Profits, who later became Mob Deep more part

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Speaker 6: of that common Sense, who was later walked to Relativity.

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Speaker 4: And then there was a guy named.

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Speaker 6: Bickie Small's who was walked to bad Boy, amongst a

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Speaker 6: few others. But all of these coming from Maddie's column essentially,

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Speaker 6: So in my mind, Matt had already been been doing

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Speaker 6: a and R.

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Speaker 5: Scott like just had that passion like me to kind

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Speaker 5: of listen and go through a lot of different music.

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Speaker 6: Matt was just blaming the Mob Deep stuff, which was

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Speaker 6: phenomenal at the time. Me Matt stretched rebugging at how

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Speaker 6: they had grown. Mob was about sixteen seventeen and so

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Speaker 6: when they made you know, the initial stuff, so now

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Speaker 6: we saw them as kind of sounded like they were

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Speaker 6: coming into their prime and finding themselves. I wanted to

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Speaker 6: bring that to Loud. I remember Steve being like, yo,

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Speaker 6: they sold twenty thousand records on their first album, like

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Speaker 6: this is this is how you want to start off?

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Speaker 6: And I was like, yeah, yeah, we're gonna make a

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Speaker 6: classic record with these kids. Steve was definitely about the

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Speaker 6: artist first. Steve knew when something had momentum to move,

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Speaker 6: you know what I.

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Speaker 2: Mean that we may have been hesitant at first, Steve

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Speaker 2: trusted his team, followed their instincts, and signed Mob Deep.

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Speaker 2: After an underwhelming debut on Fourth and Broadway Records, Prodigy

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Speaker 2: and Havoc were looking for a situation where they could

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Speaker 2: have complete creative control of their music. Luckily for the duo,

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Speaker 2: Steve didn't believe in saying no.

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Speaker 7: What made us want to go to Loud was the

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Speaker 7: things that they was offering to us. You know, they said, look,

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Speaker 7: we feeling y'all. They appreciated our music.

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Speaker 2: This is Havoc, producer, rapper, and one half of Mob Deep.

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Speaker 7: And they said, if we was the sign to that

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Speaker 7: label that creatively we would have the reins to do

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Speaker 7: whatever we wanted to do. They wouldn't bother us. They

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Speaker 7: would just let us do us. And that was attractive

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Speaker 7: to us, you know what I mean. A label saying, Yo,

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Speaker 7: we're gonna let y'all do what y'all do. We're not

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Speaker 7: gonna bother y'all. We give y'all all the creative control.

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Speaker 7: That was very attractive to being Prodigy.

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Speaker 5: At that time, creative control was the big issue, and

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Speaker 5: especially in hip hop, the idea that these bigger rap records,

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Speaker 5: in order to have a budget, we're going to have

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Speaker 5: executives coming in. Puppeteering aspects of how these records are

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Speaker 5: made not just not happening.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 5: There was a whole kind of counter movement against that,

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Speaker 5: right and against making records that even smelled like that, right,

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Speaker 5: and to keep it real movement happened, right, keep the

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Speaker 5: tims in the army fatigues, movement like this kind of

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Speaker 5: dichotomy that's always been there in rap, right between the

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Speaker 5: rimey side and the shiny side.

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Speaker 2: Scott Free and Maddie c.

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Speaker 7: It was like Big Brothers to us, guiding us through

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Speaker 7: this second album without doing the infamous album wouldn't have

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Speaker 7: been the infamous album because they had the constructive criticism

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Speaker 7: and followed their league, you know what I mean. They

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Speaker 7: guided us.

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Speaker 5: The process became emulating what I saw the greats doing,

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Speaker 5: you know, and I know that already have had learned

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Speaker 5: from watching Large Professor and Premiere and Pitt of Me,

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Speaker 5: you know, doing the first Juvenile Hell album. You know,

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Speaker 5: and you know, my goal was really to give him

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Speaker 5: the confidence.

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Speaker 1: That was the most important record in Loud history. Even

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Speaker 1: though we got Wu Tang, we needed a follow up.

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Speaker 2: This is Steve Rifkint, founder of Loud.

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Speaker 1: Records, and when Havoc and Prodigy and Maddie came to

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Speaker 1: the fucking office to play that album, I cried, and

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Speaker 1: I knew that we had another platinum record. We're not

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Speaker 1: a one trick pony.

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Speaker 2: The Infamous proved that Loud was more than just a

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Speaker 2: one act wonder, and Steve was hyper aware that the

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Speaker 2: album's success was the direct result of Scott and Maddie's chemistry.

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Speaker 2: In order to continue this momentum, Steve needed Maddie to

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Speaker 2: join Lab full time and lead the A and R department.

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Speaker 5: Scott put in his ear, Yo, Matt, that's mat shit,

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Speaker 5: Like you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: You got to get mad over here. And then both

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Speaker 4: of them, you know, took me out a couple of times.

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Speaker 5: They tried to get me do A and R, and

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Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, I want to do A and R,

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Speaker 5: but I'm mostly like I want to fuck with these

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Speaker 5: producers all these and help, you know. I felt like

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Speaker 5: I had kind of helped Big on his first album

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Speaker 5: with a few producers, and I was excited to bring

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Speaker 5: producers to artists type of thing and then possibly help

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Speaker 5: with publishing deals. So Steve hooks me up with BMV

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Speaker 5: Publishing Clyde Lieberman, and I started doing that too, and

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Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, I'll lay in our mob deep two.

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Speaker 5: It goes well, I'll keep doing that. And obviously as

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Speaker 5: mob Beat started to do real but it was just

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Speaker 5: to shoe in and that's what I was doing, and

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Speaker 5: I stopped kind of showing up at the source as much,

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Speaker 5: and by ninety four I was just Loud A and R.

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Speaker 2: Matty c set the tone for the A and R

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Speaker 2: department with his attention to detail and steadfast commitment to

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Speaker 2: honoring the artist vision. Scott Free would take Matt's Q

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Speaker 2: and push Riza and Ray Kwan as they crafted Louds

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Speaker 2: next release only built for Cuban Links.

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Speaker 6: Maddy was really ill like about production, so he'd go

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Speaker 6: back in, do another recall, add a little kick to

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Speaker 6: stand whatever. It was like. We were really aintal about

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Speaker 6: the quality of the sound of the music itself.

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Speaker 5: I think my huge advantage was being at the source

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Speaker 5: and being able to see into every label and every

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Speaker 5: project before and after it came out and understand what

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Speaker 5: was working and what was it.

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Speaker 6: We ab we compared everything like Doctor Dre's Chronic album

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Speaker 6: that was always the test, like you know, yo, my

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Speaker 6: shit got us come behind Dre's and the club and

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Speaker 6: you know, not miss a step. And I'm telling Ray,

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Speaker 6: I'm like, yo, man, make sure all our shit got

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Speaker 6: drums in it.

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Speaker 2: Fuck that.

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Speaker 6: Don't let Rod hit you with the just the loop

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Speaker 6: like whatever whatever, because Yo, man, we're trying to bang

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Speaker 6: in the club. All that's cool if you just listening

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Speaker 6: on your walk man and all, but like, Yo, make

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Speaker 6: sure this whole album got drums in it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 6: It kind of got back to Rob, and you know

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Speaker 6: Rob kind of felt like me and mad with this

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Speaker 6: and his drum game. Okay, well, you know it is

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Speaker 6: what it is.

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Speaker 4: Like.

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Speaker 6: You know, I wasn't crazy about the drums on Meth album.

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Speaker 6: Some of them, like you know, and the Ruckus was ill.

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Speaker 6: But then you had a couple that was like, uh.

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Speaker 5: You know, you know, like listen to to cal Man,

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Speaker 5: you can't really listen to album cuts and if you DJ,

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Speaker 5: you definitely can't play them, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 5: It just sound muddy.

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Speaker 9: So when you go to the Cuban LNS album. I

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Speaker 9: remember walking into here incarcerated scarfaces and I come in

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Speaker 9: and Rob puts it up, and the whole time he's

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Speaker 9: playing it, he's just looking at me in my face

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Speaker 9: like he's doing that the Raquines thing or whatever, and

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Speaker 9: he's looking at me in my face like like, say

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Speaker 9: something about my drums right now, I dare you.

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Speaker 5: You know, I feel like he was looking dead at

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Speaker 5: me too, and he said that. I think Rizzard made

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Speaker 5: his point.

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Speaker 6: I was in stun shock mode, you know, He's like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: I'm like, Yo, that's that's the bar Rod, that's the bar.

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Speaker 5: I still feel like, you know, proud to have kind

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Speaker 5: of lit a fire under his ass about that, because again,

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Speaker 5: it speaks for itself now.

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Speaker 2: The following year, Matt and Scott would add an up

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Speaker 2: and coming producer to their A and R roster. Shawn C,

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Speaker 2: who had just got in a placement on Jay Z's

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Speaker 2: Reasonable Doubt, was looking for any entree into the music

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Speaker 2: industry and jumped at the opportunity to help with Mob

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Speaker 2: Deep's Hell on Earth sessions.

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Speaker 10: What I learned from Maddy C the way that he

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Speaker 10: ran the A and R department was never.

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Speaker 4: Tell the artists what to do.

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Speaker 10: If you want large professor to produce something for mob Deep,

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Speaker 10: just create the situation where lard happens to be in

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Speaker 10: the same room with them and let it be organic.

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Speaker 10: LUD was run where the artist had the creative control,

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Speaker 10: and we were lucky enough to get artists that really

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Speaker 10: were super dope. You know that we didn't have to

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Speaker 10: guide as much. We just kind of created that environment

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Speaker 10: for them in order to make the records that they

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Speaker 10: did and get their vision out.

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Speaker 5: There was a great morale in the beginning of Loud

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Speaker 5: New York, like everybody was kind of on board, on

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Speaker 5: the same page, unified.

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Speaker 10: The culture of.

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Speaker 2: LAD was coming into focus. They were hip, brash and

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Speaker 2: ahead of the curve. And as the roster grew, so

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Speaker 2: too did the staff. Stephen Rich hired Steve's brother, Jonathan,

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Speaker 2: an accomplished promotion executive, to run radio. Olukuru joined his

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Speaker 2: creative director and Charlene Thomas's project manager, amongst so many

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Speaker 2: other talented additions to the team.

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Speaker 3: So I moved back to New York, start working the building,

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Speaker 3: develop relationships with all the people at RCAA, learn how

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Speaker 3: a real record company is run. Everything from A and

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Speaker 3: R administration, to production, to creative services, to royalties, all

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Speaker 3: the unsexy, uncool things. That's what I knew I had

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Speaker 3: to learn for us to be able to build a

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Speaker 3: real business and take it to the next level. So

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Speaker 3: I'm spending more time there. Steve's coming back and forth

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Speaker 3: and he realizes, Okay, York or is where hip hop is.

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Speaker 4: He has to have a present there too.

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Speaker 7: When it came to Steve, Rikin and Rich, they was

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Speaker 7: like the coolest CEOs that you can ever have of

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Speaker 7: a record company. You know what I mean. Because we

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Speaker 7: was on Fourth and Broadway. We never even seen the

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Speaker 7: CEO of the label or the president or anybody like that.

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Speaker 7: We only dealt with the A and r's. So to

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Speaker 7: be able to hang out with the CEOs of the

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Speaker 7: label and play basketball with them and hang out until

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Speaker 7: that was important because it created a family environment.

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Speaker 2: In no time, louds officers in LA and New York

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Speaker 2: were the place to be. You never knew what you

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Speaker 2: might hear or who you might see.

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Speaker 4: It just became like the hangout.

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Speaker 3: We were outside of Union Square where NYU is right

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Speaker 3: by the subway. All young people who love hip hop

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Speaker 3: and in those days. As I said, it was a

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Speaker 3: real community. So at any given time, one of the

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Speaker 3: artists would you pop into the office. Then some mixtape

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Speaker 3: guy would show up, some pot dealer would show up,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it was just a cool

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Speaker 3: hang in our office.

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Speaker 4: It was complete chaos.

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Speaker 3: We had strippers in the office for Ray Kwanin's birthday.

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Speaker 3: It was the least professional place he could possibly imagine.

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Speaker 10: If you were in the office at night, there'd be

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Speaker 10: a lot of things going on in there. That's a

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Speaker 10: lot of crazy shit going on on those couches, a

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Speaker 10: lot of weeds, smoke, which seemed like it was normal.

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Speaker 10: Like at a record label. You walk in and you

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Speaker 10: know Ray is back there, Old Dirty is back there.

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Speaker 10: I remember being in a listener room and Dirty came

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Speaker 10: in and he was like, oh, I got new speakers.

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Speaker 10: Those speakers are dope. He's like, I need I need

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Speaker 10: some speakers like this from my from my studio. And

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Speaker 10: then LV who ended up being my production partner the later,

285
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Speaker 10: was coming up to check me and he was like, yo,

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Speaker 10: I was just in the elevator with Old Dirty and

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Speaker 10: he had two speakers on his shoulders.

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Speaker 4: He said he was coming out.

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Speaker 9: I was going there.

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Speaker 10: He said he was singing Rick James walking with these

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Speaker 10: speakers and security stopped him and he was like, what

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Speaker 10: you're talking about these.

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Speaker 1: Moss because the.

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Speaker 4: Like he's told his bakers out.

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Speaker 6: Of the office.

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Speaker 2: Another artist that became larger than life at LOUD was

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Speaker 2: Big Punisher aka Big Pun. The Bronx born rapper was

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Speaker 2: buzzing in the streets of New York, but Loud would

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Speaker 2: turn him into a global superstar. But before that could happen,

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Speaker 2: Steve would have to sign him first.

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Speaker 10: Steve would just go into business with people that he

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Speaker 10: believed in their vision more than the music. He kind

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Speaker 10: of prided himself and signing shit that nobody else would sign,

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Speaker 10: you know what I mean. And that was kind of

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Speaker 10: like what his vibe was like, you know, with Pun,

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Speaker 10: he wanted to do business with Fat Joe because nobody

307
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Speaker 10: wanted to go in business with Joe, so he wanted

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Speaker 10: to do that because of that vib.

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Speaker 1: I must have gotten ten calls saying, don't do business

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Speaker 1: with Joe. He's a killer and extortionist, this that, so

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Speaker 1: and so and so on. Right, so I meet Joe

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Speaker 1: over the phone. I said, I'm going to La on

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Speaker 1: a Thursday to see my kids.

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Speaker 4: I'll be back Monday. Let's meet Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Joe comes to the media, and I fell in love

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Speaker 1: with Joe. The second you're welcome, I said, let me

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Speaker 1: talk to you. Everybody said not to do business with you, this, that,

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Speaker 1: so and so on. He said, I'm a real fucking gangster.

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Speaker 1: I go, I want to show everybody wrong. All we

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Speaker 1: did was laugh. Pun wasn't even at the fucking meeting.

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Speaker 1: I go, bring Pun Thursday. But Joe, please be on time. Listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm flying home to be with my wife and kids.

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Speaker 2: But Joe wasn't the only person Steve was concerned about

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Speaker 2: being on time for the meeting.

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Speaker 1: Meeting Saya at eleven thirty. I have a three hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars check waiting for Maddie that he hasn't picked

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Speaker 1: up in six fucking weeks. He'd never be in the office.

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Speaker 5: He tells this story a lot about my lateness. I

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Speaker 5: don't I don't appreciate that too much as a grown man.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, probably back then. Uh, not not quite as

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Speaker 5: diseased as the artist with the late in this effect.

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Speaker 5: But yet, I too was not that enthusiastic to make.

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Speaker 1: It to morning pep talk staff.

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Speaker 4: Meetings, right.

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Speaker 5: I would try to explain, like we worked into the

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Speaker 5: wee hours of night, we go to the studio, we

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Speaker 5: go to the club. Yet I'm not gonna make it

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Speaker 5: to the nine o'clock ten o'clock meeting on time.

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Speaker 1: So I walk in see Maddie in the office, like,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing here? He goes, don't we have

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Speaker 1: a meeting with pun? I'm like, you're here for this?

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Speaker 1: They walk in. I said, you got a deal? Who's

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Speaker 1: your attorney? They all looked at me like I'm fucking

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Speaker 1: on crack. Joe goes, don't bullsheit me. I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not bullshit. I said, who's your attorney? Maddie says, we

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Speaker 1: haven't heard music? I said, Mattie, you're here. He must

347
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Speaker 1: be a fucking star. He said, who's your attorney? Tim?

348
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Speaker 1: Manda Bell I call up Ten? I said, here's two

349
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Speaker 1: point fifty. We closed it right there to that Tim

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Speaker 1: came to the office.

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Speaker 5: In all honesty, it's not one with my you know,

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Speaker 5: detailed stories of memory the way it is to Steve.

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Speaker 5: But what I do remember is Steve like inventing this

354
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Speaker 5: joke at that moment and never letting it go like

355
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Speaker 5: Maddie's here on time. He feels like he can make

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Speaker 5: that point in a short sentence. I signed a Pun

357
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Speaker 5: because Maddie showed up on time, You know what I mean?

358
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Speaker 5: And so yeah, it's cool. You know that's I like it.

359
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,199
Speaker 2: Punctuality aside, Steve's signing Pun just because Maddy made the

360
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 2: meeting is also a testament to how much trust he

361
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Speaker 2: had in Mattie's ear In that moment, Steve's instinct for

362
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 2: reading people in talent were unmatched by anything other than

363
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Speaker 2: his confidence in his own process. With Pun on the roster,

364
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Speaker 2: Lad was about to be the hottest label in hip hop,

365
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 2: but the once controlled chaos that fueled their rise was

366
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Speaker 2: rapidly becoming entirely uncontrolled.

367
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Speaker 3: We went from putting out one or two records a year,

368
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Speaker 3: selling a couple hundred thousand a year, which was substantial,

369
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Speaker 3: Wu Tang selling a million copies, Rayquon selling a million copies,

370
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Speaker 3: The Alcoholics a couple hundred thousand, mob deep going goal.

371
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Speaker 4: So I don't think I caught up.

372
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Speaker 3: I don't think my learning curd was steep enough because

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Speaker 3: I'm spending my time doing crazy things like I'm actually

374
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Speaker 3: dealing with the production people and making sure that the

375
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Speaker 3: record got delivered on time, and making sure that the

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Speaker 3: publicist has photos of the photo shoot or whatever.

377
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Speaker 4: So I was doing such.

378
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 3: Dumb minute things and learning that I wasn't paying enough

379
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Speaker 3: attention to really realizing how big our business was becoming.

380
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Speaker 10: It was my first A and R job, so I

381
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 10: had nothing to compare it to, you know, just every

382
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Speaker 10: night eating somewhere.

383
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Speaker 4: I never spent my own money.

384
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 10: I like lived on my expense account and studio sessions,

385
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Speaker 10: like just booking it, booking and booking it until later

386
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Speaker 10: and not really realizing like this isn't really what you're

387
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Speaker 10: supposed to be doing, like you should be paying attention

388
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 10: to the money, like, oh, we book it and I

389
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 10: went through two block at the same time, and we'll

390
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 10: have a room where you can go in here, and

391
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 10: then you can come in here. And back then it

392
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Speaker 10: wasn't you know, there were no home studios, so everything

393
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Speaker 10: was expensive. Wu Tang's first video, they were the first

394
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Speaker 10: million dollar video too, that I feel like was warranted though,

395
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Speaker 10: because it was it was Wu Tang.

396
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Speaker 3: Clin the second Wu Tang album, you know, that was

397
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Speaker 3: when we truly went to the next level.

398
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Speaker 1: The second Wu Tang album was a game changer.

399
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Speaker 4: That was the beginning of the end. Actually for us.

400
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Speaker 3: We were young guys who had this cool company of

401
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 3: all young hungry kids who never had a job anywhere,

402
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 3: let alone in music, and we're just renegades and making

403
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 3: it up as we go along, and we're like pinching

404
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 3: ourselves on a weekly basis, going can you believe this

405
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 3: is happening kind of thing. But after a certain period

406
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Speaker 3: of time, you're like, Okay, I want to make some money.

407
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 3: You know, we wanted to make money. Bands wanted to

408
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 3: make money. The staff wanted to make money. At the beginning,

409
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Speaker 3: they're like, yeah, it's cool if you pay me three

410
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: hundred dollars a week, but we're selling millions of records.

411
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 3: You guys are probably making millions. We want to get paid.

412
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 3: Of course we weren't, but that was the impression. It

413
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 3: never lost the culture and the community of the company,

414
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 3: but it started becoming Okay, everybody wants to make money.

415
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 3: When Wu Tang came out with the second album, we

416
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 3: became a joint venture.

417
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Speaker 4: We got kind of cocky.

418
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 2: Wu Tang Forever sold over six hundred thousand units in

419
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:31,160
Speaker 2: its first week and catapulted loud into another stratosphere. Naturally,

420
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 2: Steve decided it was time for him and his partners

421
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: to get paid, so we started renegotiating their deal directly

422
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 2: with straus Selnick, the chairman of rcia's parent company BMG.

423
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 1: Now where we're negotiating every ten minutes. So Strauss calls me,

424
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: who is the chairman of BMG, and says, meet me

425
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Speaker 1: at the Regency Hotel Thursday at nine o'clock. I drive

426
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: the day before on that Wednesday to see who's there,

427
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: and Summer Redstones there. Rupert Murdoch's there.

428
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: Yes, that Rupert Murdoch, media mogul and chairman and CEO

429
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 2: of Fox.

430
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Speaker 1: This motherfucker is gonna try and embarrass me. I come

431
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: in a pair of blue cargo shorts, Michael Jordan, North

432
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: Carolina tank top with a T shirt underneath, and Strass

433
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: is in a suit. At that time, we're doing the

434
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: Thursday night lineup on Fox Marketing wise, which was Martin

435
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: Latifa Show New York Undercover. Stress. As I can't go

436
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: any further and we're sitting across from each other, I

437
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: said Strass, the deals up in four months. I've been

438
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 1: broke this long. I could wait another four months and

439
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: if you know the deal, everything comes with me anyway,

440
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,719
Speaker 1: and I slammed the table. Group at Murdoch comes to

441
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: the table. This is why I got rid of you.

442
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: Strass was president of Fox. He goes, when you see

443
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: somebody with this type of passion, you're arguing over money.

444
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: I have no idea who this guy is. I introduced myself.

445
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: I said, I'm very close with your son, James. As

446
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I do a lot of work

447
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: for you. I do all the marketing for your Thursday

448
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: night lineup. And I leave and I'm actually I'm at

449
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: peace with myself, like, if he comes, great, If not,

450
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 1: we'll get a huge fucking deal in November. But I

451
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: know Rich and my brother they want the money. I

452
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: wanted the money too, but I was truly at peace

453
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: with myself. So instead of going to the office, I

454
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: walked to my house. So Grooman calls and I'm not

455
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: picking up the phone, and he goes, whenever you get this,

456
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: I got great news and betan news. So I call

457
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: him and he goes. Murdoch called me, you really slammed

458
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: the table. So I tell him the story. I'm like, so,

459
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: what's the great news. You're getting what you want from Strass.

460
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: I go, what's the Betan news? He goes. Rubert Murdach

461
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: called me and they're gonna give you fifteen thousand a

462
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: month from the fifteen thousand a month they were giving you.

463
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: And I was like wow.

464
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: And just like that, in a basketball jersey and cargo shorts,

465
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: Steve had manifested another new deal, transcending from music industry

466
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: Maverick into Flah powerbroker.

467
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: Our marketing business was exploding because every time we had

468
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: a hit, everybody wanted to be in business with us

469
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 3: on the marketing.

470
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 4: Side because they're like, wow, how do these guys do it?

471
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 4: How do they have hit after hit.

472
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: And then not on the radio and they're doing all

473
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 3: this underground marketing. We want the secret sauce, and they

474
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 3: hire us, and we started doing marketing for corporations. We

475
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 3: started doing marketing for Nike, for Mirrimax Films, for Tommy Hillfigure.

476
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: Then we got a first look deal with Mirrimax Films

477
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: and we had a film company.

478
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 4: So we're just exploding.

479
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 3: So it's becoming this big business and then what happens Egos,

480
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: Steve's becoming this celebrity, you know, he's becoming this big name.

481
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 4: In hip hop.

482
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: I'm kind of trying to keep the fort together. Jonathan,

483
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 3: our other partner, Steve's brother, is trying to keep the

484
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: radio situation together and the marketing company together. We're hiring

485
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: new people because we realize we have to do all

486
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: the things that we're trying to do. We need to

487
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: professionalize it. Yet we can't lose what got us here.

488
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 3: So there became this tension. Me and Steve started fighting

489
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: all the time because I was kind of like being

490
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: the grown up and trying to be responsible. And now

491
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 3: we're getting real money from our partners. We have a

492
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 3: real overhead, we have a big roster, and I'm trying

493
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: to honor that and run it like a business. And

494
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: Steve's kind of like going, you know, you're making this

495
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 3: like an accounting firm. This is a record company, and

496
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, it's not exactly an accounting firm, but

497
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 3: you know, we have to keep it together. And you

498
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 3: could tell there were factions within the company. There were

499
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: rich people and then there were Steve people, and everybody

500
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: kind of respected each other, but tensions started to evolve,

501
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 3: tension between us and attention within the staff.

502
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: Although Rich and Steve tried to keep their rift discrete. Eventually,

503
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: even the rank and file employees like Sean C noticed

504
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: the vibe shift.

505
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 10: During that period of time, I didn't see Steve a lot.

506
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 10: I saw Rich more. I realized there was something there,

507
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 10: and it was something going on with Steve. I didn't

508
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 10: know to the extent until later, to my detriment and

509
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 10: also to my credit, I was just the music guy,

510
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 10: you know what I'm saying. I was more focused on life.

511
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 10: All right, I'm gonna get to death press record.

512
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 4: So I was aware of it.

513
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 10: I remember Steve coming in the office and saying, alcoholics

514
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 10: better sell four million records or else everyone's.

515
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 5: Fired, and we're like what.

516
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 10: I had stopped seeing him for a while, and when

517
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 10: I saw him he would say shit like that, and

518
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 10: then lead we were like, he's fucking just on one.

519
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 4: He's wilding.

520
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: We started getting so big and so successful and a

521
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 3: little full of ourselves in a little bit too ambitious.

522
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: We were hitting our numbers and they kept saying yes

523
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: to anything we asked for. At that point, then we

524
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: started doing crazy stuff like let's start a rock label,

525
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: Let's do a joint venture with Violator, let's do a

526
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: joint venture with PMP, and all of a sudden, we

527
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: have overhead deals with this guy and overhead deals with

528
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 3: that guy and signing artists for seven hundred and fifty

529
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 3: thousand dollars when we started out signing artists for ten

530
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: thousand dollars. And you know, at this time, hip hop

531
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: is just exploding. All the major labels have their own

532
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 3: hip hop departments. Like when we started, it was a novelty.

533
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 3: Now everybody's in it. Death Row Records is his own

534
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 3: phenomenon on the West Coast, Puffies label just set the

535
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 3: standard for you know, unprecedented hits one after another. Deaf

536
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 3: Jam starts getting hot basically off of the back of

537
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 3: Method Man. Then Atlantic Records is going on a role

538
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: like everybody's getting in the game. It's becoming super competitive.

539
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: So everything that we started doing was underground, and now

540
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: it's the hip hop industry.

541
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: The music industry was catching up to Loud. Hip Hop

542
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: was no longer a niche market, and every major label

543
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: had started their own department. The competition was tougher, and

544
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 2: Loud was spending like crazy to keep up. To make

545
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: matters worse, they were missing out on signing some major

546
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: artists as well.

547
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 5: When we opened that eight forty one Broadway, it was

548
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 5: Dame and Jay coming to see me. We had Jay

549
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: d signed for a twelve inch record was called Reach

550
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 5: the Top, and we recorded it Marvin Gay sample though,

551
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 5: so when we tried to clear the sample, we ran

552
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 5: into some issues. And then Dame came up a couple

553
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 5: times and got in the room with Rich and that didn't.

554
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 4: Go so well.

555
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 5: Rich wasn't feeling James so much, and I'm like, oh man,

556
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 5: the biggest fish that got away is Eminem. Shane Mooney,

557
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: who was our West Coast agnir, came in in the

558
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 5: listening room in loud and played me the Eminem song

559
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 5: about locking his girl in the Trump and I was like.

560
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: Nah, no bro out here, Let's play something else. I

561
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 4: wasn't feeling it.

562
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 10: I wanted to try to sign Kanye. Hip Hop had

563
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 10: brought Kanye to me and he gave his demo like

564
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 10: he did everyone else, and I was like, he's super dope.

565
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 10: This this label was probably going to be here. I

566
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 10: knew that was happening.

567
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: With these missed opportunities, and the labels continue to overspending

568
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: lab reach a breaking point and they're deal with RCA

569
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: and BMG. Pretty soon both parties started looking for a

570
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: way out.

571
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 3: We started spending a million dollars every time we rolled

572
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: out a record. You know, we wanted to compete with

573
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 3: Bad Boy and def Jam, and you know you had

574
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: to because the artists now are demanding. You know, we

575
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 3: spend a million dollars on a mob deep video. How

576
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: stupid is that?

577
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 7: Looking back on it, if I had a chance to

578
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 7: do it again, maybe I wouldn't spend that much on

579
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 7: a video and I would pull the.

580
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: Resources somewhere else.

581
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 7: At the time, you know how Competitives was signing Brighton,

582
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 7: you know.

583
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 5: What I mean.

584
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: We didn't want Havic and Prodigy to come in our

585
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 3: office and say, hey, bad boys doing this. How come

586
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 3: you guys are trying to do one hundred thousand dollars video.

587
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 7: You wanted to be on that level so it could

588
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 7: level the play and field, you know, for you against

589
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 7: your competition. So, you know, sad but true. The spending

590
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 7: definitely got out of control.

591
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 3: It was very difficult to say no, and then we

592
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: started doing crazy things. And then at a certain point

593
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: BMG came in and said, hey, guys, you got to

594
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: rein it in and Steve more than mate. To be fair,

595
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: was kind of like, fuck them. We're building this amazing brand.

596
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 3: They don't believe in us.

597
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 1: Straus sends Pete Jones. Does a guy who we had

598
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: a report to now say we need more profits out

599
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: of it, And I'm like, mah, fuck that. Like I'm

600
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: just building them. I don't give a shit about the

601
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: bottom line. And I said that I think rich started

602
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: choking out a sushi. He goes, well, if that's the case,

603
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: you know that maybe we should probab waves. I said, okay,

604
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: So we literally become a free agent.

605
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: And then finally we had to buy Cell come up

606
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: in our contract. Buy Cell is basically a mechanism to

607
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: get them to a place where they're buying us out

608
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: of our share of ownership, and of course we're up

609
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: for that because we know if we're successful, we're going

610
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: to get rich. We had what was called a shotgun

611
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: by I sell, which means the party that initiated said okay,

612
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: I want to buy. The seller then says okay, if

613
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 3: you want to buy, this is the price, and if

614
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 3: the buyer thinks the price is too high, the seller

615
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: then has to buy the buyer out for the price

616
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: that they state, So it's really like a game of chicken.

617
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: BMD said, okay, we're out. We want to exercise the

618
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: buy sell. Now it's us to say, okay, the price

619
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: is fifty million. So if we say fifty million and

620
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: they think it's too high, we're obligated to buy them

621
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: out for fifty million, and if we can't come up

622
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: with it, they get the company. So basically they came

623
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: up and said we went out. We were in debt

624
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: to them at the time, we were losing money. We

625
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: had all these unrecouped balances for our artists. You know,

626
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 3: our overhead was too high. So our lawyer, Alan Grumman

627
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: just came up with a number. So he threw out

628
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: a number and Strauslnik said, fine, you get me that

629
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: and you can have the company. Alan was completely surprised

630
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: that they were willing to sell. He was so disenchanted

631
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: with how we were doing things. Now we have to

632
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: come up with that money to buy him out.

633
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: Well, Rich looked for ways to fund the buy out.

634
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: Word got out overnight that Loud and BMG were parting ways,

635
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: and the next morning it was front page news.

636
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: The only person I thought that knew was groomman. But

637
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: I guess you told everybody that night was Clive Davis's

638
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: su pre dinner photogrammys. I felt like I was puff

639
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: Like all of a sudden, every fucking photographer like, I

640
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: don't know who set what up or whatever, but it's

641
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: like everybody knew we were free agents. Like the next

642
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: day in the New York Post said Loud is free.

643
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: We meet with grooman in the morning, Rich flies back.

644
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: I stay out here and we start taking meetings.

645
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: I'm freaking the fuck out. Steven was like great, and

646
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, you're out of your fucking mind. Who's gonna

647
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 3: buy us for that amount of money? Then what are

648
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: we going to get? So the clock's ticking. We meet

649
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: with everybody, because you know, everybody wanted to be in

650
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: business with us. We met with Jimmy Ivy, and we

651
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: met with Tom Wallly at Warner Brothers. We met with

652
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: every label head. Then they'd say, great, this is amazing,

653
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: and then they'd say, you know, get our CFO the numbers.

654
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 4: Send him the numbers. No one's calling us back.

655
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: All of a sudden, there's like a couple of weeks

656
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: left before this moment we're supposed to come up with

657
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: the money. Our Rabbi, Ron Urban from RCA is now

658
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: at Sony. He's like a coo at Sony Corporate. And

659
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: Sony had just made the biggest blunder of all time.

660
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: They sold deaf Jam to PolyGram. They let def Jam go.

661
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: Right after they let deaf Jem go, Warren g pops

662
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: def Jam blows up. They went on a run and

663
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 3: now Sony looks like idiots. They lost their hip hop label.

664
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 3: And Sony owned Relativity Records and Red Distribution at the time,

665
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: and Relativity wasn't doing so well.

666
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 4: They wanted to make a change.

667
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: So Ron Urban oversaw Relativity and read on behalf of Sony.

668
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 3: Steve meet to them and Ron said, I got a plan,

669
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: brings it to Tommy Mottola and Mel Oberman at Sony

670
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: and our lawyer had a great relationship with Tommy and

671
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: magically with you know, we literally like you know, it

672
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: was like a James Bond movie with double O seven

673
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 3: left on the clock. Sony comes to the table and says,

674
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: we're going to buy.

675
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: The Sony deal saved Loud, but it also changed the

676
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: identity of the company. Instead of being a boutique label

677
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: run by a bunch of friends. They were now a

678
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: corporate entity with an office full of new employees, new policies,

679
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: and new processes. As a result, Steve made himself unavailable

680
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 2: and the rift between him and Rich grew deeper.

681
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: On one level, I'm ecstatic because now we're with Sony.

682
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: They were like the New York Yankees of the music business,

683
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: the most successful, best run, sexiest company. We got raises,

684
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: we got the biggest check we ever got in our

685
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: lives as in advance, and now we have relativity. But

686
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 3: I'm also like, oh my god, I'm fucked because Steve

687
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 3: is never going to learn his lesson. He's actually getting

688
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 3: rewarded for his bad behavior because now the lesson for

689
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 3: us over playing our hand with BMG was we got

690
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 3: a bigger company, raises in a big check. I'm in

691
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 3: awe that Steve and we pulled off this coup at

692
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: the last minute. We had created such a name for

693
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: ourselves that we were still able to get you a

694
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: great deal. But at the same time, I was worried

695
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 3: that now we're not going to ever get on the

696
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: same page because I know in my heart this this

697
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 3: should never have happened this way, and Steve's going, yeah,

698
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 3: fuck it, this is how it works. Like we got

699
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 3: to get people who really believe in us and let

700
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: us do our thing so that tension didn't go away.

701
00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 4: I was now the president.

702
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: You know, he wanted to empower me, and he wanted

703
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: to appease me, and he wanted to reward me.

704
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: Rich wanted more recognition from me. I really didn't give

705
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: a fuck anymore. I thought that was on an island

706
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: by myself. So I named Rich president and I'm like,

707
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: you running, go ahead, do what you gotta do. I

708
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: was just like, I truly hated it.

709
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: I remember walking into the Relativity office and they had

710
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: their own creative department, their own finance department, their own

711
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 3: royalty department, their own business affairs department, their own sales team,

712
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: national promotions. You know, I'm still a kid in my head.

713
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: And then we had our staff, so they were you know,

714
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: probably over one hundred people plus the joint ventures and whatever.

715
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 3: And now I'm the president and I'm like a holy.

716
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: Shit, I think we went from a staff of like

717
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: thirty people to like two hundred people. They weren't now

718
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: with people, they were like real workers, like they had

719
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: like you know, they took it as a real job.

720
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: We took it as a real job, but it was

721
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: like we would stay in the office eleven o'clock a night,

722
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: shoot dice, we smoke weed, we drink, eat, you know,

723
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: go to this, go to that, you know. Like when

724
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: the bell rang, they were out and I was like, well, fuck,

725
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: does you look great? But it doesn't fit right. I

726
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: started having panic attacks, anxiety attacks, and it was was

727
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: just the worst experience of my life.

728
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: Steve was basically in la at the time and he

729
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: never wanted to deal with any of that kind of stuff.

730
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: I remember him coming into the office and he's like,

731
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: who are all these fucking people? Like what do they all? Did?

732
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 4: You know?

733
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: Like this is crazy, And I'm trying to explain to him, like,

734
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: now we're a full service label. This is what we

735
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: signed up for. We have all these different departments. That

736
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 3: was not the fun, sexy part of the music business,

737
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: but that became my you know, responsibility. We became this

738
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 3: big business doing. My job was focused on how do

739
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 3: we deliver our P and L and how do we

740
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 3: make our business plan? And Steve hated the idea of that,

741
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: and I hated that he hated the idea of that,

742
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 3: and I understood why he hated it, but it's like,

743
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: you can't have your cake and eat it too. You

744
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: can't get the big check, have the big staff, have

745
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 3: this big roster, and then just be like, well, fuck

746
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: you guys. That's the bullshit part of the business that

747
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 3: I hate. So that was ultimately the demise, because you

748
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: can't be this boutique, cool label and then have one

749
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 3: hundred artists. I think we were both aware that we

750
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 3: were losing the sauce, and we weren't emotionally evolved enough

751
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: to figure out how to get on the same page

752
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 3: and fix it.

753
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 4: I was resenting that.

754
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 3: I felt like I was abandoned trying to keep this

755
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: thing going on my own in a way, and Steve

756
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: resented that it was, you know, monolith, even though he

757
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: was clearly a big part of creating the monolith. We

758
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: always loved each other and we were always friends, but

759
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: I think we both kind of resented each other.

760
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: I decide during that time, I'm moving to Hawaii and

761
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: I have enough money, and I'm gonna send Timmy back

762
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: my portion of the money, and ill right, Tommy is

763
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: a letter. I didn't do emails and I was quitting.

764
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: I didn't tell Rich, I didn't tell anybody, and I

765
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: feel like forty pounds later, like this is just off

766
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: my head, Like I'm good, We're gonna move here.

767
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: While Steve was in Hawaii, one of lad's most successful

768
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: young artists, Big Pun, was on the verge of dropping

769
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: his highly anticipated sophomore album, Yeah Baby, and Shaun c

770
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: was working diligently with Pun to get that record across

771
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: the goal line.

772
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 10: We're basically finished the album and we were going to

773
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 10: do like three more street songs. It's had more thing

774
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 10: songy records, and so I was like, we should make

775
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 10: a little bit more, you know, a couple more street records,

776
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 10: and we were working on getting those done. And I

777
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 10: remember being in an A and R meeting and them

778
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 10: asking when do you think you will turn the album in.

779
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 10: I had just left Pun, actually, and I saw how

780
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 10: bad his health was.

781
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: He could barely breathe, and it.

782
00:39:59,440 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: Was just bad.

783
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 4: It was the worst that I had seen him.

784
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 10: I literally said in an an R meeting like I

785
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 10: can't with a clear conscious like asked this man to

786
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 10: record new songs. Not like there was pressure from the

787
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 10: label to do it. They just were asking me. When

788
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 10: it was the album going to be done, and when.

789
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 5: Was I turn it in?

790
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 10: And I said, we have these new songs that we're

791
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 10: working on, but I can't with like, like, honestly, ask

792
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 10: this guy, like, when are you going to record the song?

793
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 4: Like he's dying. He can barely breathe.

794
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 10: And I was on my way to the airport and

795
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 10: he called me. It was sometimes hard to understand what

796
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 10: he was saying because of his breathing.

797
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 4: He asked me where I was going.

798
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 10: I said, I'm going to LA. I couldn't understand him,

799
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 10: and then the phone hung up, and I was like, oh,

800
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 10: I'll hit him when I get to LA.

801
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: Nobody knows I'm in Hawaii. Rich doesn't know where I am.

802
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 4: Nobody does.

803
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: Only my mother and I see two big samoans come

804
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: running up to the court, mister Rik and mister Rifkin.

805
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: You have an emergency in the mainland and a trich

806
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: on the phone. I'm thinking somebody died. Well, somebody did die.

807
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 10: When I left in New York, he was alive. When

808
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:05,959
Speaker 10: I got off the plane, he was dead.

809
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: Pun's death sent shockwaves throughout Loud. In an instant, one

810
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 2: of the label's most promising young stars was no more

811
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 2: on top of that, the label spending had gotten out

812
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: of control. Ladd had sold tens of millions of records

813
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: but had no profit to show for it, and now

814
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: Sony was putting the screws to Rich to find out

815
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: what happened.

816
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 3: We started losing money, We started getting out of control

817
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 3: with the marketing and the signings. And I remember that

818
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: the guy who really was like the CEO of Sony

819
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: that really ran the day to day of the global companies,

820
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: this guy Mel Ilberman. I had a really good relationship

821
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: with mel and he take me out for launch and

822
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 3: be like, I don't understand. I never saw anything like this.

823
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 3: You guys, No matter what you put out sells one

824
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: hundred thousand units. That's amazing your brand and how you

825
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 3: do it. But you got to control this spending. Me

826
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 3: and Steve were never on the same page on that.

827
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 3: I think they just lost faith in us running a business,

828
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 3: and our business started to suffer. They exercised their controls

829
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 3: and said you can't do certain things now without us

830
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 3: signing off, and then that led to another confrontation, and

831
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 3: then they finally said we got to make a change here, guys,

832
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 3: and then they bought us out.

833
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 4: But it wasn't under the terms that were what we

834
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 4: were hoping for, and we really didn't have much choice.

835
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 3: We had a lunch with them and they basically told

836
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 3: us this was what's happening.

837
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 4: I think Steve he was really depressed after that.

838
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 3: He realized, like, Wow, we fucked this up, both of us,

839
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: not just Steve.

840
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: So we made some.

841
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: Arrangement where I would kind of gradually reduce the staff,

842
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 3: and I felt I needed to do it myself. So

843
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 3: I was literally firing people that were like family to

844
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 3: me on a monthly weekly basis till we got to

845
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: a certain point and then that was it.

846
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: We weren't moving as a union anymore. Rich was getting

847
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: beat up by quarterly numbers. D these numbers, that numbers.

848
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: I didn't want to hear it, and I didn't want

849
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: to deal with it. I already had a wall around me,

850
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: like I had no emotion. I was almost relieved. I

851
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: think it was the first day I didn't have a

852
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: panic attack in two years. I didn't have a fight

853
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: with rich that day. Like I mean, me and Richard

854
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,399
Speaker 1: brothers literally we've known each other since was seven years old.

855
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: So I was relieved.

856
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 3: It took a while for me to realize the method

857
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 3: to the madness that Steve had, you know, the collection

858
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: of people, and then going Okay, Steve's collected all these people,

859
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 3: but he hasn't thought about how it's going to work.

860
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 4: He just knows.

861
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 3: I got to have be in business with Fat Joe.

862
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 3: I got to have Combe Chantrelle, you know on the

863
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 3: Loud payroll. I gotta have Maddie c. I gotta be

864
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 3: in business with Scooter Braun. He was amazing at identifying talent,

865
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: finding the right people, and by then I learned that

866
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 3: that was his greatest skill, greatest attribute as an executive,

867
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 3: as a talent finder. It wasn't so much his musical ear,

868
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 3: although he loves music and he has a good year.

869
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 3: It was his ear and instinct for people.

870
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: We used to call rain Man.

871
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 8: He picked those artists Steve did in that way. Man,

872
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 8: he had a run, in my humble opinion, is as

873
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 8: great as anybody anyone in the business.

874
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 4: His run is incredible.

875
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 6: We had so many creatives in the building that we

876
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 6: needed a person like rich and at the same time

877
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 6: like he's two damn near best friends that grew up

878
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 6: together in Merricka, Long Island and since childhood it's like,

879
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 6: you know, me starting a company and you know, going

880
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 6: to get one of my day ones and being like, yo, bro,

881
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 6: just come aboard and let's just have fun with this.

882
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 8: Rich was the glue. He's incredible how he kept it

883
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 8: together the way he did when you look back, he

884
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 8: was extremely responsible and he was Devil's advocate.

885
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: You know, Steve was clever.

886
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 8: To know to bring Rich there and to have him there.

887
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: We couldn't have done it without him.

888
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 8: Could not have done it without Rich.

889
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 7: The special thing about Loud Records I would have to

890
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 7: say is that they took chances or artists that other

891
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 7: labels would. You know, Mom Deep wasn't a safe bet,

892
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 7: you know what I'm saying. I'm sure Wu Tang wasn't

893
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 7: a safe bet, but they took chances for that They'll

894
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 7: forever be remembered. I don't even know what hip hop

895
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 7: would be without a Loud Records.

896
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 4: I learned a lot. I learned how you have to empower.

897
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: People, you have to teach people, you have to be

898
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 3: honest with people. I enjoyed that part of my job

899
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: the most, and I really learned a lot at LOUD.

900
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 3: I think we had a lot of young people that

901
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 3: never had jobs before that never worked, and nobody ever

902
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: worked in an environment like Loud, myself included.

903
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 4: But I think it was a.

904
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 3: Super unique thing, and I think most people will look

905
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 3: back and say that was the best time in my life.

906
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 4: That was the best job I ever had.

907
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: Nobody had experience, including me and Rich. Rich might have

908
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: had mower experience. I might have grew up in the

909
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: music business, but we never had a company. Yeah, I

910
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: had a marketing company, we didn't have a record company,

911
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: and we made our own rules. Rich I couldn't have

912
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: asked for a better partner. He understood me like when

913
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: I had because of my dyslexio or whatever, and just

914
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: when words that I couldn't get out or couldn't pronounce,

915
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: like he read my mind, even if he didn't understand

916
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: it or disagreed with it, he would still get the

917
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: ball over the finish line, Maddie Free and so on. Shauncey.

918
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: They kept it as authentic and as real as possible.

919
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: Mojo and my brother Jonathan, they were the best promotion

920
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: due to me, in the history of the music business.

921
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: We just focused on everybody's strength and we really became

922
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: a family. We would be there for everybody, not just

923
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: me and Rich, but the whole unit, from the receptionist

924
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: to a security guy, to Maddie to Free to Mojo

925
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: to John. You know, is like it really was a family,

926
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: and I think that's what made us so special.

927
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: From the Wu Tang Revolution to Mob Deep's unrelentingly rugged

928
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: anthems to Big Pun's brutal lyricism and pop appeal, Loud

929
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: shaped the sound of hip hop in the nineties, and

930
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: all that art only exists in the world as it

931
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: does due to the confluence of voices and personalities that

932
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 2: made Loud. Each and every member of the staff bought

933
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: a unique perspective and talent that contributed to gifting us

934
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: the public with those magical moments. Ultimately, the inspired chaos

935
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: that generated Loud success may also have led to their undoing,

936
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 2: but it's clear that each team member enjoys a pride

937
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 2: in their contribution to the culture and maybe more so,

938
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: a gratitude for the many lessons learned along the way,

939
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: and we the audience share in that gratitude for music

940
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 2: that I say, without hyperbole, changed lives and changed the world.

941
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: Hip Hop would not be where it is today if

942
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: Steve Rich and the rest of the team had not

943
00:47:52,560 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: turned up the volume and made it loud. If you've

944
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: enjoyed this episode, please don't hesitate to like, comment DM,

945
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: or tell a friend to tell a friend about Idea

946
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 2: Generation and the All Angles Podcast. This episode was brought

947
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: to you by Will Packer Executive produced by John Volachick

948
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 2: and Helena Ox, original music by Valentine Fritz, edit and

949
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 2: sound mixed by Nonsensible Production, and hosted by me Idea

950
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: Generation founder Noah Callahan bever Idea Generations. All Angles is

951
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: a Will Packer Media podcast