1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: In the last hours stunning and tragic news from University 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: of Idaho. Four young college students murdered. I'm Nancy Grace. 3 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Series X one eleven. We 5 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: don't know much right now, but what we do know 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: four young students to age twenty two, age twenty one 7 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: in an off campus home home where five girls lived together. 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: Three story homes, six bedrooms, three baths early Sunday morning. 9 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: We believe four students slaughtered. Thank you for being with 10 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nay in series Sex and one eleven. 11 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this this hour, 12 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: we are tracking breaking news. Just a moment ago, Moscow 13 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: police confirmed four people were found dead in a home 14 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: just steps away from the University of Idaho campus. Right now, 15 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: we're continuing to work to get more details tonight. We 16 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: know that students were ordered to shelter in place for 17 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: a time this afternoon because of the scenes proximity to campus. 18 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: Neighbors say they began noticing police cars flood the area 19 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: around twelve pm today. Moscow police say they responded to 20 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: a call here on King Road for an unconscious individual 21 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: upon further investigation, officials found four people dead. While police 22 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: investigated the scene, the University of Idaho enacted a shelter 23 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: in place alert as university officials reported a homicide near campus. 24 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Neighbors say most people living in this area are a 25 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: part of u of E Greek life or our students, 26 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: but we do not know the identities of those involved 27 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: or who lives at the residence. Officials are investigating. You're 28 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: hearing our friends to k r E M with me 29 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: an all star panel to make sense of what we 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: know right now. But first straight out to special guests, 31 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: Ava Wayne House, reporter k h Q local News, Ava, 32 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. How were the four 33 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,279 Speaker 1: students found? News came in that the police are responding 34 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: to a call of someone found unconscious. That's the call 35 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: that originally came in, and then they responded, and then 36 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: they found the four additional bodies, the four bodies of 37 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: these students inside the home. It was originally a call 38 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: not pertaining to four dead bodies, but that's what they 39 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: found when they entered the home. It was shocking news, 40 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: but here especially coming from just the most quiet town. 41 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: Joining me is David Allroy, attorney at law, joining us 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: from Idaho, former Attorney General in Idaho for lieutenant governor, 43 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: former prosecutor. You can find him at Leroy dot com. David, 44 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. This is 45 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: your neck of the Woods question to you. I'm trying 46 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: to determine for sure how the bodies were found. It's 47 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: my understanding that about noon on November thirteenth, that is 48 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: a Sunday noon, on Sunday noon ish, that a friend 49 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: of one of the girls went to the home and 50 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: found all four dead bodies. Is that how they were found. 51 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: There's no publicly released detail on the translation of police 52 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: report of an unconscious person and the discovery of the 53 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: four bodies, but obviously somebody determined if the unconscious person 54 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: was one of those bodies from merely opening the door 55 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: that something was wrong and reported extremely promptly. There's no 56 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: public clearly released details on that first discover real of 57 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: them unconscious person observed. Joining me also in addition to Ava, 58 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: Wayne House and David Leroy is Captain Taylor West, Captain 59 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: West Division Commander Investigations, Davis County Sheriff's Office in Farmington. 60 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: Captain West, thank you for being with us. You know 61 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: It's very important in every criminal investigation who finds the body. 62 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: In this case, four bodies of college students, four dad 63 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: college students. It's very important to determine who calls it in, 64 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: who finds them, who reports it. It's my understanding a 65 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: friend of one of the four deceased comes to the home, 66 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: finds the people there at first, possibly thinking someone was unconscious. 67 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: Maybe one of them still was, well, they're dead. Now, 68 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: that's interesting. Have you ever noticed, Captain West, so often 69 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: we find a wife dad, it's the husband that finds 70 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: the body. Yes, very often we look at, you know, 71 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: the person who finds the body or the person who 72 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: responds to the scene. It should be known to the 73 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: fact that the cultuman is an unconscious personal. That's probably 74 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: just a classification issue with the dispatch center. And anytime 75 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: we have a body or someone unconscious, they all come 76 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: in the same as a man or woman down, so 77 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: that they probably just coded it that way and said 78 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: they were unconscious. That doesn't mean necessarily that the victim 79 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: was still alive but unconscious when they arrived. To answer 80 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: your question more specifically, Nancy, yes, it seems like oftentimes 81 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: the person who discovers the body or the person who 82 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: makes that phone call. We don't know in this case 83 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: that phone call was made from the scene or if 84 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: it was made away from the scene, but yes, that 85 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: there would be a person of interest in my mind 86 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, for instance, to doctor Michelle Dupree, 87 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: forensic pathologists, medical examiner, detective, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, 88 00:05:54,720 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree, you're right there all the same practically of 89 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: the Alex Murdog double murder who called in the dead bodies, 90 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: Alex Murdog and now he's charged with murder. Do you 91 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: see my drift here? I certainly do. And as was 92 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: said before, you know that is always one of our 93 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: first people that we look at as a person of 94 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: interest is either the spouse or significant other and or 95 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: the person who finds the body or calls it in. Well, 96 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: unlike many statistics may indicate there seemingly it's no connection 97 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: to the person that comes to the home and finds 98 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: the dead bodies. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, 99 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet and Starve, 100 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: a Brandy hit series, Body Bags of Joseph Scott Morgan, 101 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: Joe Scott. In this case, I really don't see any 102 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: connection with the person that called it in. I really 103 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: do believe at this juncture anyway, they just went to 104 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: the home and make this gruesome discovery. Yeah. Yeah, And 105 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, you think about it. This person probably occupies 106 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: the same space with them, was familiar with the location, 107 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: and was familiar enough to walk through the door. Maybe 108 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: they checked it initially to see if it was unlocked. 109 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: They didn't. They couldn't get anybody to come to the door. 110 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: And in the world that we live in now, Nancy, 111 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: if they're calling, certainly with four deceased individuals, you're not 112 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: going to get a response from a phone call. So 113 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, was the door actually left unlocked at the 114 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: scene somebody? Yeah, it really doesn't it the door being 115 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: a lot to the scene, which we believe that it was. 116 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: But there's so much forensic evidence here. Guys. Take a 117 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Whitney Ward k r e M 118 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: breaking news out of Moscow, Idaho, the bodies of four 119 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: University of Idaho students discovered in a house just steps 120 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: away from campus. Those students were discovered just yesterday afternoon 121 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: in a neighborhood near Greek row on campus. Earlier today, 122 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: the university released the identities of the victims found in 123 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: that house, twenty year old Ethan Shapen from Conway, Washington, 124 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: twenty one year old Madison Mogan from Courtlane, twenty year 125 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: old Zanna Zernodle from Post Falls, and twenty one year 126 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: old Kaylee Gonzalez from Wrath from Idaho. Now names are 127 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: attached to that initial report of four dead college students. 128 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: Just think about it. Time stories with Nancy Grace to 129 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: doctor Shawn Robertson joining us psychologists out of Edmund. You 130 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: can find him at doctor Shawn Robertson dot com, dotor Robertson. 131 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: My twins, John, David and Lucy have just started the 132 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: ninth grade, but for over a year they've been talking 133 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: about where they want to go to college, what university 134 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: or college they're interested in, what they want to study, 135 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: what they want to be, and we're planning for it. 136 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: I mean when they were first born, doctor Robertson, I 137 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: started a fund, a college fund when they were born, 138 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: planning and hoping and praying that one day they would 139 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: go on to college and beyond, and just thinking about 140 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: these four people, these four young people's family and I'm 141 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: thinking about that photo of them, doctor Robertson, that was 142 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: taken just a couple of hours before they were all 143 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: savagely murdered. I mean, doctor Robertson, I've looked at the 144 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: exterior of the home and from one angle you can 145 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: actually see blood pouring down from a crack in the foundation. 146 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: Blood is pouring. I haven't seen that since I prosecuted 147 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: a triple homicide out on a playground one Sunday night 148 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: and there was blood running down the gutter like water. 149 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: So you work your whole life, it feels like to 150 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: get your children to this point, and these parents had 151 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: done it. They could check the box. We got them 152 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: through preschool, we got through elementary, got them through mental, 153 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: we got them through high school. And all the ups 154 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: and the downs, and the highs and the lows, the victories, 155 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: the defeats, and then they make it. And now this, 156 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: it's just to me overwhelming what these parents must be 157 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: going through, Doctor Robertson. Well, you certainly expect that your 158 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: children and be safe at college, especially in a smaller town. 159 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: Colleges are generally safe communities, and you know, that's a 160 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: pretty large number of victims to be killed all in 161 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: one place. Most crime victims, most murder victims, are more 162 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: often than not going to be people who are involved 163 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: in crime themselves. They're not going to be college students. 164 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: So something like that would certainly come. It's quite a shock, 165 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: and it's pretty unusual. Well, Nancy. One thing that makes 166 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: this all the more shocking and all the more traumatic 167 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: for both parents and students is that the University of 168 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: Idaho is a beautiful, classic red brick campus spread over 169 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: rolling hills in an agricultural area. It's got traditions dating 170 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: back to eighteen eighty nine. It's a medium sized campus, 171 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: about twelve thousand students in a very small town twenty 172 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: six thousand people. And that ratio of students and residents 173 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: makes it a very close knit community where everybody does 174 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: feel safe. And that's one of the reasons you go 175 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: to this very protected area for a college education. Who 176 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: am I hearing, David Lee roy or Captain West's Dave 177 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: le roy Man. You know, David, I was just thinking 178 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: when you were talking, where did you go to law school? David? 179 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: And to the law school into University Idaho about a 180 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 1: quarter of a mile from where this incident happened, and Nancy. Shockingly, 181 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: I was actually in that building, that residence about four 182 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: years ago when I was engaged in a political campaign 183 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: and on campus for homecoming events, and one of my clients, 184 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: I had a child who was in that building as 185 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: a resident renting the place for two years. He and 186 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: I went over there and said hello for about an 187 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: hour to the four students living there. Wow, okay, I'm 188 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: just drinking and everything you're saying it's reminding me. Well. 189 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: First of all, was thinking of the two places I 190 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: went to law school. One was the Mercer University in Macon, 191 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: which I loved. The other was NYU On University, obviously 192 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: in New York, for an LLM degree. I approached my 193 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: wife at Mercer very differently than I did at YU 194 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: because the Mercer is in the middle of Macon, Georgia, 195 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: and surrounding Macon, which has a hefty population now is rural, 196 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: and there is a feeling of safety and security in 197 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: a low crime rate, as opposed to NYU. I mean, 198 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: taking the subway to class. You know, I was always 199 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: looking over my shoulder. You're right, this is almost an idyllic, 200 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: a bucolic setting. Now I'm very intrigued by the fact 201 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: that everybody on this panel jump in. David Leroy attorney out, 202 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: a Boise, high profile lawyer, former Idaho Attorney general, former 203 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: lieutenant governor, former prosecutor. It goes on and on, has 204 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: been in this home in the murder scene. I'm curious 205 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: and ava wenthouse. Please jump in if I'm wrong on 206 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: any of these facts. I think the young man Ethan 207 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: was found on the second floor, which but the fact 208 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: that they told us that makes me think the girls 209 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: were somewhere else, possibly on the third floor. This is 210 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: a three story home, to my understanding, what's on the 211 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: second floor? David, Well, it's been remodeled since I was there. 212 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: I believe it was a four bedroom residents when I 213 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: was there. It's been changed to now reportedly a six 214 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: bedroom residents, but after an entry in the front area 215 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and perhaps one bedroom on the lower floors, it's all 216 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: bedrooms upstairs. So along with the appropriate time related about 217 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: you know another thing. It just got morgan. I keep 218 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: thinking about how four people were overpowered by one person? 219 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: What more do we know? Take a listen to Nicole 220 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: Hernandez KRM. It was the city of Moscow, Idaho that 221 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: sent us this information. Just a few minutes ago. They 222 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: said that they suspect that this homicide was done these 223 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: students that died by quote an a weapon such as 224 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: a knife, and they say they did not actually find 225 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: a weapon at the scene. They also have not arrested 226 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: any suspects yet and they are ruling the investigation a homicide. 227 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: As of this morning, the crime scene tape is still 228 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: up around the house. We saw one officer there this 229 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: morning as well, and a memorial has grown overnight for 230 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: those four students. This though, has left students in the 231 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: area Afreid. A lot of people left last night and 232 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: then we were like, I know, we were like the 233 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: only like one of the only ones who actually stayed 234 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: here last night, mass exodus at the university. There people 235 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: leaving out of fear. Guys, this takes place in Moscow, Idaho, 236 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: there at the university. Joe Scott, are you hearing what 237 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm hearing? I think you are four people overpowered around 238 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: two to three am in the morning with an edged 239 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: weapon that means a knife in my mind, a serrated knife. 240 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: How did he obviously this is a male attacker to 241 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: be able to overcome for other people asleep? Were they asleep? 242 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: Were they in a supine position, lying in beds. And 243 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: Ethan was there staying with a girlfriend that night. Why 244 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: is he on the second floor and she apparently somewhere else? 245 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: Did they run? Were they sleeping separately? Ethan did not 246 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: live there, Isn't that right, Jackie. The girls lived there, 247 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: The three girls lived there along with two other girls. 248 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: Ethan was just visiting the girlfriend. So what springs to mind? 249 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. I mean, this is a mass stabbing. 250 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: There's got to be fingerprints, DNA fibers, off the defendant, 251 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: off the suspect. Agree, disagree, disagree? This is going to 252 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: be I'm sorry. Agree, this is going to be an 253 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: evidence light into you like nobody's business dark. I think 254 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: I need some more hot tea on that. I was 255 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: all happy, go ahead. And to David's point, which I 256 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: think is quite interesting. When you begin to think about 257 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: the layout of this place, if it is the size 258 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: that it is, and it's not necessarily size, it's kind 259 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: of the construction of it. If it's a multi story dwelling, 260 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, one of the first things that comes to mind, Nancy, 261 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: for me is thinking, was somebody laying in wait and 262 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: was able to prey on these victims individually, or maybe 263 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: two at a time, because when I think about a 264 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: mass stabbing, that's something that generally is very chaotic. You 265 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: hear about this mass attacks with a knife and that 266 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: sort of thing. People run scurrying, screaming, that sort of thing. 267 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: But you know, to the best of my knowledge, there's 268 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: nobody that's necessarily alerting in this event. Can you play 269 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: spake normally? You mean, when you say alerting, do you 270 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: mean screaming? Yeah? Well, look, I mean we've all we've 271 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: all lived, if we've attended you in an undergraduate circumstance, 272 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: or maybe you've lived in our apartment complex. You know, 273 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: proximity walls are not necessarily thick in these things. And 274 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: you really wonder did anyone here any screaming during the night? 275 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: Did anyone hear any ruckus furniture being broken? We don't 276 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: know about the nature of the scene. And here's one 277 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: other thing that we don't know yet is the distribution 278 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: of the remains. Where were they were they all grouped together? 279 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: You said that this young man was up on the 280 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: top floor, second floor, second floor, Okay, well he was 281 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: on an upper floor away from the girls. And I'm wondering, well, 282 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: what position were they in at that moment time? Were 283 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: they able? Was this individual able to take them unawares? 284 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: He just said everything that I said, except you said 285 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: it a little bit better. You know, my son has 286 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: a student in his class like you. The teacher will 287 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: say something and then he goes, well, I think, and 288 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: he'll restate it, and it looks very thoughtful as he's 289 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: doing it. So we know Ethan, we think, Ava jump 290 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: in Ava, Wayne House joining me k HQ local. We 291 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: hear we understand Ethan on the second floor, and that 292 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: suggests to me that the girls were on the third floor. 293 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: Do you know anything Ava about that. I was just 294 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: want to say that this is confusing for the community 295 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: and for these students. I was staying at the home 296 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. We had friends who have a home 297 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: base there, and we were editing and doing our jobs, 298 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: while these students are surrounding us and they're just saying, 299 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm hearing so many mixed reviews, mixed information, misinformation groomers, 300 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: and this community, these families deserve to know what really happened. Okay, wait, wait, wait, 301 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: wait wait wait, Avo Wayne House, what do you mean 302 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: you're hearing mixed information. I'm saying students were just when 303 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:16,719 Speaker 1: everything originally happened, the lack of confirmation you know from 304 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: I mean, at first it was rumors of murder suicide 305 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: that was ruled out. Things like that. When you live 306 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: in a small college town, it hurts to not know exactly. 307 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: And even forty eight hours later, when we were still 308 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: on seen students who are feeling like they wanted more 309 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: from local authorities, and especially wanted more for the families 310 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: of the victims. You know, very interesting you brought up 311 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: the specter of murder suicide. I don't see it. I 312 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: don't say one of these four killing the other three 313 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: and then themselves. Just a couple of hours before the 314 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: murders go down, all four are pictured and happy, go 315 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: lucky photo. One girl it's on another girl's shoulders. They're 316 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: all smiling together. Two of them were dating. I believe 317 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: it was Ethan shape and and Zanna Crenodle. The two 318 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: of them dating. Two of the girls grew up together. 319 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: I've been best friends since sixth grade. Two of the 320 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: girls were in the same sorority. Two of the girls 321 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily the same. Two worked at the Mad Greek restaurant. 322 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: They're all very close. Murder suicide is just not fitting 323 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: together evidence wise to me. I want you to take 324 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: a listen now to our friends at GMA, a tight 325 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: knit community in northern Idaho, reeling after four University of 326 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: Idaho students were found dead in an apartment across the 327 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: street from campus. I think it's shocking for everybody. Police 328 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: are calling it a homicide authority. You see. The initial 329 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: call for an unconscious person came in just before noon Sunday, 330 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: but Mayor Art Betkey telling ABC News the crime happened 331 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: hours before. Given what the nature of the scene was, 332 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: they've indicated that it was three or four in the 333 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: morning when things happened. Once officers arrived, they found a 334 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: horrifying scene. Three women and one man, all members of 335 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: the Greek community on campus, were dead. The foursome scene 336 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: here in this photo posted by Kaylee Goncavs just hours 337 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: before their deaths. There isn't a person on campus who 338 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: isn't affected by this. I mean, these are like really 339 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: adored and loved people on our campus. Freshman Ethan Champan's 340 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: brother telling ABC News in a statement, we are triplets 341 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: and it's hard to imagine life without him. Doctor Michelle 342 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: Duprie is joining us for instance pathologists, medical examiner, detective, 343 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: author of homicide Investigation field guide Doctor Duprie a stabbing. 344 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: They're saying a sharp edged implement. Well, obviously it's a knife. 345 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm wondering is it serrated? Did the knife come from 346 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: that location or was it brought to that location? They 347 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: likely hood of a suicide by stabbing. It's extremely low statistically, 348 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: I'd like you to weigh in on that. And also 349 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: regarding the edge of the knife, it's very difficult, but 350 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: is possible in very few scenarios to match a particular 351 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: knife to a wound. Why because flesh is static, it's moving, 352 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: and therefore you can't get a good pattern because the 353 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: flesh itself is moving. It's not like getting a plastic 354 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: mold of a knife. So that's going to be difficult. However, 355 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: we do know that police are scouring the area, including trash. 356 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: Because we also know, and doctor Robertson can jump in 357 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: on this, that it's human instinct to throw away the 358 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: murder weapon immediately goes all the way back to Kane 359 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: and Abel. He kills Abel and tosses the weapon, tries 360 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: to get rid of it. That's how old that instinct is. 361 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: So right now, doctor Dupree, police scouring trash cans, roadways, 362 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: behind walls, gates looking for the knife. I'm hoping if 363 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: and when they find the knife that it is a 364 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: wooden handled knife. Why because it's easier to get DNA 365 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: off of a porous surface such as wood, as opposed 366 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: to metal or plastic. How likely do you believe is 367 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: it that there are Prince fiber or DNA left behind, 368 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. And we are seeing the emergence of a 369 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: timeline right now, the murders now being placed between three 370 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: and four am. And if you listen carefully to that 371 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: last bit of news, they refer to the homicides. They 372 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: did not refer to suicide homicide exactly, Nancy, And I've 373 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: actually only had one taste where there was a suicide 374 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: by a sharp edge instrument. What was that cutting of 375 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: the risks? No, it was not. He stabbed himself in 376 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: the heart when he was about to be apprehended. So 377 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm excluding suicide by risk cutting. I'm talking suicide my stabbing. 378 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: It just highly unlikely. I don't see it here, So 379 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: how can you tell the timeline. Now, I know there 380 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: is extrinsic evidence, evidence not relating to the bodies or 381 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the autopsies, that suggest the murders occur between three and 382 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: four am. That most likely is a twitch picture or 383 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: video that has emerged just a couple of hours before 384 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: the murders, where at least two of the victims are 385 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: at a food cart getting food. They're alive and happy, 386 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: So you know, between cell phone data texts, we know 387 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: one of the girls texted mom every single day at 388 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: least talk to where every day. Extrinsic evidence may give 389 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: us a timeline. But looking at the bodies alone, doctor Dupree, 390 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: how do we set the timeline as the murders of 391 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: carry between three and four am. We can look at 392 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: several things. We look at them sea markers, We look 393 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: at things like how dry is the blood, where is 394 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: the blood a part of the patterns, the blood spatter patterns. 395 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: We look at all that types of information. And going 396 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: back to the knife that you mentioned, absolutely, I believe 397 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: that if and when the knife is found there will 398 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: be trace evidence on that. There should be hair's fibers, 399 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: certainly hopefully blood. Usually when there are homicides by sharp 400 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: horsed instruments, the perpetrator will actually cut themselves, especially when 401 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: they are stabbing someone. It's not uncommon for them to 402 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: cut their hand as well, So that may even have 403 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: that person's DNA on the knife when found right when 404 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: you're holding a knife, you're holding it like this, and 405 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: when you make contact with the body of the victim, 406 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: your hand slides down past the hilt and you slice 407 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: your own hand. That happens a lot more than we 408 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: know exactly, Hence the discovery of the defendant's DNA on 409 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: the murder weapon. Doctor Sean robertson joining us out of Edmund, 410 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: Doctor Robinson, why is it that has something to do 411 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,239 Speaker 1: with instinct? I guess that the killer always wants to 412 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: immediately get rid of the murder weapon. Well, certainly you 413 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: want to eliminate any trace back to yourself. You know. 414 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: I've had many many cases where knives were used as 415 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: the weapons. You know, sometimes they're buried or hidden. I 416 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: had one case where an individual threw it into a 417 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: into a retention pond at the front of a neighborhood. Actually, 418 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: that was how they ended up getting caught, is that 419 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,479 Speaker 1: they had told somebody where the knife was and they 420 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: drained the pond idiot, and they were able to match 421 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: a piece of the knife that had broken in the 422 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: victim back to the knife that they found. So certainly 423 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: you want to distance yourself from the murder weapon as 424 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: quickly as possible. You know, another thing to Captain Taylor West, 425 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: Special joining US Captain and Davis County Sheriff's Office in Farmington, 426 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: Captain West, when you're talking about a stabbing, I find 427 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: very often, at least in the US, not necessarily in 428 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: Britain where they don't have as much access to guns, 429 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: but in the US, very often that the nature of 430 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: a stabbing indicates that you know your victim. It's much 431 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,919 Speaker 1: more up close and personal. What do you think about that, Captain, 432 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: I believe had to be true. I think stabbings are 433 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: much more intimate of a crime. It's also very interesting 434 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: to me in this case that these are four adults. Now, granted, 435 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: the girls are petite nature vision by their pictures, but 436 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: for a single person to overtake four adults with a knife, 437 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: that's some extraordinary resolved to commit that crime. And I 438 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised in this case if the victims were 439 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: first either herded into a room or even bound and 440 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: then murdered, which would really lead to the intimacy of 441 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: that crime. If someone could find four people or contain 442 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: them into a room and then still take the effort 443 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: to commit a homicide against each of them individually, is 444 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: something that I haven't encountered in my career. A quadruple 445 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: stabbing homicide. Well, this is an amazing situation. I'm intrigued 446 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: by the fact that this is reported to be a 447 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: six bedroom rental home. Now we know that at least 448 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: three of these people lived there. Was there some other 449 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 1: resident that was involved here, and that give both some 450 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: opportunity for access, obtaining a weapon on site, some intimate 451 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: knowledge of the neighborhood. It intrigues me, and I'm I'm 452 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: not buying into the people who are critical of the 453 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: police for saying there's no general threat to the public. 454 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: I think these fact patterns suggest that this is something 455 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: very intimate and emotional and perhaps even with another resident. Well, Okay, 456 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: let's analyze that, David Leroy, Okay, there's five girls living there. 457 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: Five girls. These three girls lived there. Ethan did not 458 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: live there, He was there staying over with his girlfriend. 459 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: That means there were two other girls that live there. Therefore, 460 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: I do not believe it's someone else that lives in 461 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: the home. I don't think they're the prope because I 462 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: don't think a woman did this for obvious reasons, A 463 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: statistically never happens, and be this is highly, highly aggressive 464 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: and takes a lot of power to overcome for people 465 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: unless they're sleeping. Unless they're sleeping, I'm wondering if that's 466 00:30:52,440 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: what happened. Time stories with Nancy Grace to Aba Wayne 467 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: House joining us in KHQ. I understood that some of 468 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: the neighbors heard a ruckus before the murders. Is that true? 469 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: I have not been told that if that is true, Okay, 470 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: So you don't know the answer to that. Do you 471 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 1: know if there are any suggestions there was a robbery 472 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: or a sex attack? I do not know. Okay, guess 473 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: all I needed to know. Do you know anything about 474 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: the possibility that there was a forced entry into the home. 475 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: Did somebody break into the home? A broken window, a 476 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: Jimmy D window, anything like that. We do not know. 477 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: It's just a huge, huge lack of transparency. Yes, you're right, 478 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: But to you, Captain Taylor West, some people may call 479 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: it a lack of transparency, and they're right, But having 480 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: prosecuted literally thousands of cases Inner City Atlanta, there's a 481 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: reason you don't give the media every single detail. A 482 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: lot of reasons. Absolutely. There's, as you know, the prosecutor's 483 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: prosecutorial reasons. There's hold back information that we like to 484 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: keep back to help solidify a case upon the confession 485 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: later on. There's information that the public doesn't need to 486 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: know in regard to intimate details of the case. There's 487 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: always information that we don't want to want to share 488 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: that could jeopardize that prosecution in any way. I do 489 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: agree a little bit that the police department in Moscow, 490 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: in conjunction with the administrative office the mayor, it seems 491 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: like they are sending mixed messages looking at some of 492 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: the press releases, or that they're not communicating well, and 493 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: it would probably be good for them to get on 494 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: the same page in regard to the message they're releasing 495 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: to at least calm some of those fears. I don't 496 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: know the mayor, captain, but he needs to shut his 497 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: piehole pronto, because you just did the opposite of what 498 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: you said the kid in your son's class does. Yeah, 499 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: you're right, I did, but I said the mayor. Did 500 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: he say the mayor before I said the mayor? Okay, yeah, okay, 501 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: you when you're right. I think what's probably most disturbing 502 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: to the public is the fact that they have stated 503 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: that there's no risk to the public, but yet they've 504 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: never announced if the suspect is in custody, if the 505 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: suspect is already dead. I mean, obviously, if they don't 506 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: know who did this, then there is a risk to 507 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: the public if the person is not in custody or 508 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: not already dead. Is this David Leroy or Captain West. 509 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: This is doctor Robertson. Doctor Robertson, You're right, and that 510 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: is getting a lot of people upset. You got four 511 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: dead bodies, innocent co eds, and they're saying there's not 512 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: a risk. I'm telling you, doctor Robertson. People the students 513 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: are leaving. There's a mass exodus right now. Do you 514 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: blame them? Because I lived in a house much like this. 515 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I think that it would 516 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: have been like a twelve bedroom structure and it was 517 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: divided into four big, long apartments with multiple roommates. I 518 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: can tell you this much. If someone had been stabbed 519 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: in that off campus community. I would have left. There's 520 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: no way. My parents wouldn't let me stay there. You're right, doctor, Well, 521 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: all of their statements seem to suggest that the likely 522 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: perpetrator knew them. They say it was isolated, they described 523 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: it as targeted, they said it was a crime of passion. 524 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: All of these would suggest that they know who did it, 525 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: and that the person probably knew the victims, which is 526 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: usually the case. Perpetrators usually know they're victims. So that 527 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: just begs the question of why are they not releasing 528 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 1: the name of who it is if there's no risk 529 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: to the public. Is that aviad jumping ins? Yeah, I'm sorry. 530 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: This is like the main thing that I've wanted to 531 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: touch based on because this is like I've been in 532 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: Moscow since Monday, We've had a cruise here since Sunday. 533 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm in the hotel right now, going back out today, 534 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: and no matter who I talked to, this is the 535 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: main concern. So just the mixed messages from local authorities, 536 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: when the mayor saying the crime of passion, later attracting 537 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: that statement, and then the police saying they can't they're 538 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: not going to be releasing any information right now. The details, 539 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: it's preliminary, the investigation is ongoing. That's understandable. But when 540 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: the community here's the mayor originally say, he says this 541 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: is a crime of passion, and then that alerts saying 542 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 1: that they don't believe that they're a threat to the public. Currently, 543 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: the community is feeling just overwhelmed with the fact that 544 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: they don't know who to believe. They don't know how 545 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: to respond to this because two people, two entities more 546 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: than that, are saying things that contradict one another. Guys, 547 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut fifty our friends at 548 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: crime online dot com. Ethan Chapin's mother, Sarah, tells a 549 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: reporter for The Statesman that a friend discovered the bodies 550 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: and called nine one one. Police arrived just before noon 551 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: on Sunday. Authorities say though students died between three and 552 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: four am. In an interview with The New York Times, 553 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: Moscow's mayor described the killings as a crime of fashion, 554 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: and the county coroner, Kathy Maybet, says there was a 555 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: lot of blood at the scene. Autopsies have not yet 556 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: been completed, but Maybet says the cause likely will be stabbings. 557 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: The coroner added that once the toxicology reports come back, 558 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: she does not think it will be relevant to the 559 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: manner or cause of death. Stacy Chappin says in a 560 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: Facebook message to The Statesman that police told her the 561 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: students were stabbed. She also says drugs were not involved. 562 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: So far, no weapon has been found, but police did 563 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: release effect that quote. Based on preliminary information, investigators believe 564 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: that an edged web such as a knife was used. 565 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: You are hearing information that is coming from the victim's 566 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: family and the coroner. The victims Ethan shape and age twenty, 567 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, aged twenty one, Ethan's girlfriend Zanna car Noodle 568 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: aged twenty, and Kaylee Guncal's aged twenty one, all close friends. 569 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: Just Scott, we are now hearing drugs were not involved, 570 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: apparently no sign of a forced entry. What do you 571 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: make of it? This idea of the impassioned event is 572 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,720 Speaker 1: certainly on my radar at this point in time because 573 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: this is such you know, as previously has been stated, 574 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: this is such an up close, brutal manner and well 575 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: cause of death if we're talking about edged weapon, so 576 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: that means that somebody has to be fully committed to 577 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: this in order to engage with an individual like this, 578 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: And one of the little aside here I'd like to 579 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: mention this is we kind of had something atypical handle 580 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: happy in a case like this, Nancy. When you begin 581 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: to think about the officials, it is not typical of 582 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: a county corner to release a statement, and it wasn't 583 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: just a statement. She actually gave an interview prior to 584 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: the police actually giving an interview in this case. So 585 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: it seems like there may be a bit of confusion 586 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: on the ground. And you know, this is not a 587 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: huge town. They're not used to handling cases like that. 588 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: So I don't know if all of the machinery, for 589 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: lack of a better term, is fully integrated here. Maybe 590 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: you know, the left hand doesn't know what the right 591 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: hand is doing. It just let's say lee right, let 592 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: me say a word in defense of the local officials, 593 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: they have generally been on the same page. They have 594 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: now told us that they're investigating timelines, and in this 595 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,280 Speaker 1: small community, there will very certainly, very swiftly, I believe, 596 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: be a person of interests identified because you simply are 597 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: not going to be able to hide the kind of 598 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: anger and passion that would be within a single perpetrator 599 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: to causeless event from all those other students who live 600 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: in close proximity and go to class, attend the restaurant. 601 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: This will be. This will be moving swiftly, I believe. 602 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: And the local officials, indeed in a small community, are 603 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: not very well trained in these kinds of disasters, but 604 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 1: they have generally done a consistent job and they will 605 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 1: have a person of interest announced very soon. In my opinion, 606 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: I think you're right, Leroy. Guys, take a listen to 607 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: our cut seventeen our friends at crime online. Who are 608 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: these victims? The four victims ranged from a freshman to 609 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: a senior, and we're friends. All three women were from 610 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: the same county. Mogan and Gonsalves graduated together from Lake 611 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: City High School in twenty nineteen, and they were named 612 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: to the university's dean list for spring twenty twenty one. 613 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: Carnodle and Mogan worked together at the Mad Greek Restaurant 614 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: in downtown Moscow. Chapin and Carnodle we're dating, and Chapin 615 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,839 Speaker 1: was north of Seattle in Conway, Washington. As police put 616 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: together a timeline of the twenty four hours before the murders. 617 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: Melissa Holly tells reporters her daughter Riley, a junior at 618 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: the university, was at a bar with one of the 619 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,280 Speaker 1: women earlier in the evening. So the timelines are adding 620 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: up and police are looking at the movements and the 621 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: victims leading up to the murders. Also take a listen 622 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: to our cuts. Eight and nine are prints at Gama. 623 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: There's been no name suspect, but as this investigation continues, 624 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: you believe that the students and residents of the city 625 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:40,919 Speaker 1: are safe right now, right especially because given the very 626 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: focused nature of what went on there no other apartments 627 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: nearby were involved, and in the ensuing eight or nine 628 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: hours between the actuality of the crime and the call 629 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: into the police, nothing happened. I think the eventual conclusion 630 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: is going to bear out the fact that this was 631 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: a one off crime that was committed and was very 632 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: focused and doesn't involve other students or the public in 633 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: general at all. And the mayor went on to say 634 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: that he thinks the suspects could be named in the 635 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: coming days. He also said they're in Moscow, the city 636 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: and the university are incredibly intertwined. He described this crime 637 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: as horrific rare and isolated. If you know or think 638 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:31,359 Speaker 1: you know anything about these murders, remember families have been 639 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: left devastated. Please dial two zero eight eight eight two 640 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: two six seven seven Repeat two zero eight eight eight 641 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 1: two two six seven seven. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing 642 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: off goodbye from