1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Body doubts with Joseph's gotten More. Probably one of my 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: favorite Bible stories, old Testament stories out there is one 3 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: concerning Abraham, and it's fascinating to me. The story in 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: particular because it goes to the heart of you know, 5 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: what you think about, as far as the love of 6 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: God and provisions and all those sorts of things. The 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: story is actually Isaac, his son, being taken by Abraham 8 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: to a specific location where this is wild, where God 9 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: has directed Abraham to sacrifice his son. And you know, 10 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: when you think about it, you look at it, you think, well, 11 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: this has to do with faith. It has to do 12 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: with God's provision, Like well God, you hear people say 13 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: in Christian circles, God will make a way, all right, 14 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: you hear that a lot And the name of that 15 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: mountain where this sacrifice, where the Jewish faith believes this 16 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: took place, is a place called Mount Mariah. And it's 17 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, foundationally, it's a critical story that weaves 18 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: itself all the way through the Bible. Right. Well, today 19 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about another Mount Mariah. This Mariah 20 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have to do with God's provision. It has 21 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: to do with a singular individual who sought to make 22 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: a harvest from a cemetery named Mount Mariah and the 23 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: outcome is unbelievable. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 24 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: body Bags. Hey, David, have I ever asked you this question? Brother? 25 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: And I have to do. I teach a clandestine graves 26 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: class at jack State and one of the first questions 27 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: I asked my students is tell me the difference between 28 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: a graveyard and a cemetery. Have we talked about that before? 29 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: I don't know if we did on the air. I 30 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: know off the air we talked about it because I 31 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: remember being confused as to kind of like coffin versus 32 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: casket casket. Yeah, and there is a difference, Yeah. 33 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: There is. And I'm fascinated by it because you know, 34 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: a graveyard is supposed to be an area that is 35 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: considered almost like consecrated ground. It's associated with a church, right, 36 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: and but a cemetery is a public area where and 37 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: I think that and I'm probably gonna get this wrong, 38 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: but I think it goes back all the way. I 39 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: think the root is in Greek and it's it literally 40 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: means like I think it translates roughly into like City 41 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: of the Dead or something like this, and every you know, 42 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: every culture you know has always had to have a 43 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: final resting place. That is that, you know, a culture 44 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: that's kind of structured, and there's all kinds of and 45 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: I love reading about burials, ancient burials. 46 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: Anyway, it's just herlock message with all that, didn't he Yeah, 47 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: it kind of did. Holy you had a story today 48 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: that is about a grave robber. Yeah, yeah, we're My 49 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: first thought was ed geen because that's kind of about 50 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: line and wow, yeah. 51 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: You were you were reading over my shoulder, or you 52 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: were thinking we've been doing this too long. We're starting 53 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,839 Speaker 1: to think the same. But go ahead, man, about a gean? 54 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: Okay, well you you what we have is a story 55 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: where the headline, you know, five hundred charges over bones 56 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: being found. And then you know, you start looking at 57 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: this and you're not talking about some old guy living 58 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: in a shack, you know, with a lantern that goes 59 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: out in the middle of the night stealing bones. We've 60 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: got a guy who's creating it, apparently creating a business 61 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: out of bones. And in this particular case, we've got 62 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: a man named Jonathan Gerlock, who is a girlock or girlac. 63 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: Have you heard it yet? 64 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: I would lean more into girlac. I think that pronunciation. 65 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: Jonathan Gurlac is thirty four years old. He's from Pennsylvania 66 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: or living in Pennsylvania, and he has been charged with 67 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: four hundred and ninety six counts, including one hundred counts 68 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: of abuse of a corpse. And you mentioned consecrated ground. Well, 69 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: he was actually also charged with desecra and theft sale 70 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: of venerated objects. This guy was stealing bones and selling them. 71 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: And Joseph Scott Morgan, I have so many questions for 72 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 2: you about the terminology that I'm reading police reports, news 73 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 2: reports that I'm a little shocked because I'm just going 74 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: to use one term. When I hear the term corpse, 75 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: I think of a corpse as being a dead body 76 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: that still has flesh and is deteriorating. I picture it, 77 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: in all honesty, I picture them in clothing. You know 78 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: they've been buried and they're now a corpse. But in 79 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 2: the same story, I'm hearing corpse and I'm hearing skeletal remains. 80 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: To me, they seem totally different. 81 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: I think that they Yeah, no, please go ahead, I 82 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: don't want to stand. 83 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: I think no, But are they what can you please 84 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: for the love and help me understand this terminology, because 85 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: I think I think it'll help me understand. I think 86 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: I'll help all of us understand what's going on here. 87 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: Okay. I think that in most terminology, when you begin 88 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: to think about a corpse or let's let's let's freak 89 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: it down this way, when you have skeletal remains that 90 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: could technically be referred to as a corpse, okay, because 91 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: it's it is the body or all that remains, no 92 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: pun intended of the deceased. Okay. However, most of the 93 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: time when you hear corpse, that implies that you're going 94 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: to have more of an intact remain. Now there's a 95 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: bit to this that we need to kind of I 96 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: don't know, bad terminology, flesh out. 97 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: It's no, it's got more. 98 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: It's just yeah, it's very gruesome stuff. I've had some 99 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: interesting experiences over the years with human remains involving well 100 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: preserved remains that have in fact been embalmed and you 101 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: have skin that will be there, Dave, you'd be surprised 102 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,559 Speaker 1: how long that this might last. Where it's the skin 103 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: is almost leather like. Okay, I think that the bone 104 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: portion of this or the skeletal remain part of this. 105 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: That is an indication of two things. Either the body 106 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: was not well prepared prior to going into the crypt 107 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: or time okay, so where it would eventually render down. 108 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: I've heard one come, I don't know how to validate 109 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: this because it doesn't the age of this of this cemetery, 110 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: Mount Mariah. It's in Delaware County, Pennsylvania. I don't know 111 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: how to address the timing here, because one person had 112 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: said that some of these remains could be up to 113 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: two hundred years old, and I'm thinking, I don't think 114 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: that Mount Mariah was established until eighteen fifty. It's like 115 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: a Victorian error, and it's probably it's there, you know, 116 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: for us, it was there prior to the Civil War, 117 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: all right, so yeah, it's it's been there for a while, 118 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: and you know they're they're adding bodies to it over 119 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: all of these years. And you know, embalming is kind 120 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: of like it's it has progressed over the years and 121 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: the ability to preserve a body. There are many belief 122 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: systems out there where people don't want bodies embalmed. They 123 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: just want them to go directly into the ground. And 124 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: if you're absent the embalming process, then you can have 125 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: this degrading that takes place of these remains in pretty 126 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: short order. Okay, So and then you have this kind 127 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: of natural if the body is still casketed, you can 128 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: have this kind of natural disarticulation that takes place. So 129 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: if you let's just say that you and I went 130 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: to a cemetery and we were tasked with the idea 131 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: of exooming a remain, and they've asked us, you know, 132 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: they give us the necessary tools. We go into, say, 133 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: for instance, a mausoleum, which is different than a regular 134 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: ground burial, and we take a you know, crowbar and 135 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: crack open the door and then get in and pull 136 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: the face off of the marble you know crypt there, 137 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: and we you know, try to pull out the remainder 138 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: of what remains of that casket or coffin and we 139 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: get you know, we cracked this thing open, and we 140 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: look inside. Some of the stuff is going to be 141 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: very well contained. You might even see bits of flesh. 142 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: But the further back in time that you go, you're 143 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: not going to see the preservation of remains like you would. 144 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: You know, I've had some fascinating cases over the years. 145 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: I remember I had a plantation owner's wife, Dave, that 146 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: died in a typhoid epidemic in South Louisiana and her 147 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: remains were actually was actually exhumed. I'm sorry. 148 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: Was her name Mary? 149 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: I don't think her name was played Mary. But she 150 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: was very young, she was. I think that when she died, 151 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: it's an older gentleman that married her, and she was 152 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: only like eighteen. I think, wow, Well she died prior 153 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: to the Civil War, and this is in South Louisiana, 154 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: where you know what mains go pretty quickly. She was 155 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: so well ebalmbed. She was in a lead casket. I'll 156 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: never forget this, and it had window viewing window panes 157 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: on the top of it so you could look through 158 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: the window pane or the panes of glass, and the 159 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: panes of glass I've seen others of these panes of 160 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: glass were actually still intact with her. Many times they'll 161 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: split over a period of time, you know, they'll crack 162 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: because you know, glass is not a solid like we 163 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: think of a solid. People think of solids, you know 164 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: with glass, do you know that glass migrates over a 165 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: period of time. If you go into like old homes 166 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: for instance, like before, glass was kind of tempered if 167 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: you go into really really old homes. And I know 168 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: friends out there will have seen this, because it's striking 169 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: when you see it when you look through a window 170 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: or a glass pane in the hall and the glass 171 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: paine is still intact, the original, did you know if 172 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: you look through the glass is wavy and at the 173 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: bottom in particular, it's almost like the glasses semi molten. 174 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: It literally goes down like this. But anyway, I digress her. Yeah, 175 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: the glass on this thing was still intact. And so 176 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: when we got this thing open, Dave, she had she 177 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: was Creole, if I remember correctly, which is a grouping 178 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: of people in South Louisiana. Another story for another day. 179 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: And she had this beautiful, beautiful, thick black hair. Now 180 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: I'm making comment about a woman that died in the 181 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties. Day, just let that sink in. I could 182 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: appreciate the length of her hair, and in the top 183 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: of the hair, her hair had been put up with 184 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: a whale bone comb in the top like this and 185 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: gathered like that, and you could still appreciate. She was 186 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: wearing a white dress and there were still bits of 187 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: skin that you could see. Yeah, and they look like 188 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: overly tanned leather, you know. But you know, I've had 189 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: other exclamations that I've worked where people have died, you know, 190 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: within two years, and the body is had. You can 191 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: tell the body was festering in there. And a lot 192 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: of it has to do where the body is laid 193 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: to rest. Is it subterranean, is it above ground? All 194 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: these sorts of things. But back to Wow, this case, 195 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: you know up in Pennsylvania, it's, you know, a thought 196 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: that came to me, Dave, with this guy and you 197 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: were talking about how he's young, he's in his thirties 198 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: and he's creating a business. Dave, as horrible as this is, 199 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead and say it. It's almost 200 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: like that cemetery looked like Costco or Sam's Club to him. 201 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,359 Speaker 1: He's just walking through aisle afterle and trying to determine 202 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: what's going to be the best area I can target. 203 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: And he has a specific thing that he's looking for, Dave, 204 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: he wants the history of it because if he can 205 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: get the history of it, he can kind of stamp this, 206 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: he can memorialize it, because with history comes value. But 207 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: when you begin to think about the problems that the 208 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: investigators now have on their hands, they're going to think, Lord, 209 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: this is too high a price to pay. Years ago, 210 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: I had a homicide that had occurred in Atlanta, and 211 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: it was during the Final Four. It was being played 212 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and these two guys essentially kidnapped and robbed 213 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: a fellow that was in town for the game or games. 214 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: And much like pulp fiction, if you've ever seen the 215 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: movie where You Know You Know, Samuel Jackson says to 216 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: John Travolta's character, man, you shot Marvin in the face. Well, 217 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: in this particular case, the guy that was kidnapped, he 218 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: was in the backseat of his own vehicle and one 219 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: of these guys popped him in the car. And when 220 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: he popped him in the car, it created all kinds 221 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: of evidence. Well, jump forward and I'm talking about blood, bone, brain, 222 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: supersaturated area. Jumped forward like three days. This guy's been missing. 223 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: People are looking for him. And up in Ohio we're 224 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: talking about going all the way from from Atlanta to 225 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: Ohio by car. I think it was in Ohio, Indiana. 226 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: Ohio trooper pulled this car over because they were weaving. 227 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: They were breaking center line, and he approached the car 228 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: and Dave when he did, he looked in and he 229 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: saw this gore, this just horror show in the back seat, 230 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: and they were able to affect an arrest based upon that. 231 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: And that comes back to principle within within investigations, that's 232 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: called plane view doctrine, and it kind of holds that 233 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: anything that a police officer sees that's indicative of a 234 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: crime that has been committed or there's little or no explanation, 235 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: they can proceed with the case without an immediate warrant 236 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: that can detain the people. And so can you imagine 237 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: walking up to the car and the back seat is 238 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: just inundated, super saturated with blood. You've got probably particulated 239 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: pieces of brain, and brain are very they stand out 240 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: because in contrast to blood, because you've got people hear 241 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: about gray matter, you've also got white matter that is 242 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: below the level of the gray matter. So they're shining 243 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: their light and I can only imagine this is reflecting 244 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: back and immediately I can only I can feature this 245 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: this trooper like immediately putting his hand on his pistol 246 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: and saying, okay, driver, exit the vehicle, right, yeah, yeah, 247 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: you know something's afoot. But plain view comes in comes 248 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: into play in this case up in Pennsylvania, doesn't it? 249 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: The thing that gets me about this whole thing. That's 250 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 2: why I have a lot of questions, Joe, because you 251 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: realize that this came from a tip. Somebody picked up 252 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: the phone and called police. And it started with flies. 253 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 2: There were flies all around girl Like where girl Like lives, 254 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: and it was the flies. And think about it's the 255 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 2: first week of January, yeah, in Pennsylvania, yep. And you 256 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 2: got flies, a lot of flies enough that it draws 257 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: attention to neighbors. So I'm thinking about that right off 258 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 2: the start because you just don't have that's not a 259 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 2: normal thing. And that actually takes me to where I 260 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 2: was headed with the whole thing of what condition these 261 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: remains are found in in the different terminology so when 262 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: police see girlak, they actually catch them in the act, 263 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 2: you know. And you mentioned you mentioned Crowbar earlier, and 264 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: just so you know, friends, On January sixth, at eight 265 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: pm in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, Detective Chris Carr is surveilling 266 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: Mount Mariah Cemetery. Obviously something's been going on there and 267 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: another cemetery and so now they're watching. They're putting some 268 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: little things together and what do they see, Well, they 269 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: see Girlac coming out of the cemetery and he's got bones, 270 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: and in the back seat of his car, in plain 271 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: view for all the world to see, there's bones. There's 272 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: a crowbar, a birlac bag, other assorted items which I'm 273 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 2: kind of wondering what those are, but there was enough 274 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: in the back seat. 275 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: Joe screwdriver. 276 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. And the thing is is that it started with 277 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: a tip, Hey, my neighbor's got a bunch of flies. 278 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 2: Something bad's going on. Now, you know, there's part of 279 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 2: that has left out because you know, the smell is 280 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: going to be if there's flies, there's smell. Yeah, and 281 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: you've got thousands of flies in a time an area 282 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: where you wouldn't normally have them, and they call the police. 283 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: Now the police are watching, and by this time, it's 284 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: not like on January sixth that the cemetery was broken 285 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: into for the first time. The actual I've been looking 286 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 2: back at this. The break ends of the mausoleums and 287 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: in the cemeteries began November seventh and existed through his 288 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: arresting the night of January sixth, so we got two 289 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 2: months of cemeteries, two different cemeteries having stuff, bones stolen. 290 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: And I can't imagine Joe that when he leaves the 291 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 2: cemetery that he's a boy scout leaving no sign, you know, 292 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 2: nothing behind but memory. There's got to be something left 293 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: behind you to know. 294 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I was kind of intrigued 295 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: by the fact that, you know, they mentioned you hear 296 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: all of these stories that have come out about this, 297 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: and one big, one big thing I'd like to make 298 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: mention of here is this crowbar. First off, a lot 299 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: of people don't know this. Did you know that there's 300 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: there are statutes within many states that where they classify 301 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: burglary tools like they have burglary tools and crow bars 302 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: like in Pride bars are like the top of the 303 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: top of the list. 304 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 2: First time I ever paid attention to that terminology. 305 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 306 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Jed Bundy in Ohio, yep, that he got pulled 307 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: over in the Volkswagen and he jack rabbited and they 308 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: when they pulled him over, they noticed the passenger front 309 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: seat was out and he had a bag of burglary tools. 310 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: Burglary tools, yeah yeah, And it goes back and they've 311 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: they've known this for a long time, and the fact 312 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: that he had that. I've also heard that he had 313 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: a screwdriver. I'd like to know how robust a screwdriver is. 314 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: But here, here's the thing about it is they have 315 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: actually recovered tools. Okay, well, my friends and I love 316 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: to talk about these people because I'm fascinated by I'm 317 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: in forensics. Our friends in the tool mark section are 318 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: going to have They're gonna have feel day with this 319 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: because at Pennsylvania, probably Pennsylvania State Crime Lab is where 320 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: this is all going to happen. He and it's it 321 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: feels to me like he's going into actually above ground 322 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: mausoleums now because we don't hear anything about shovels, right, 323 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 1: we don't, you know, we don't hear about you know, 324 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 1: taking I guess you could take a crowbar and you 325 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: could pry you could pry a slab up. He doesn't 326 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: look like a big fellow. If you've ever seen a 327 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: slab that goes over the top of a subterranean burial, 328 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: it's you got to be robust, to say the very least, 329 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: all right, I mean, you gotta have muscles popping outside 330 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: of your neck. If you're gonna and most of the 331 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: time it's not a one man job. I have seen 332 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: them where they'll pop the top off this thing and 333 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: it will crack and it'll come apart in a couple 334 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: of pieces. It will literally fracture some of these things. 335 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: And here's kind of a first off. You should never 336 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: step on a grave. I believe it's disrespectful, but just 337 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: be warned if you ever go to a graveyard and 338 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: you see one of these kind of grounded slabs on 339 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: the ground, don't step in the center of it. That's 340 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: the weakest spot and you could find yourself falling down 341 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: into the grave if you do this. Dependent upon the 342 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: quality of these things. But it seems to me like 343 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: he's going actually into a built structure because he's using 344 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: a crowbar and probably a screwdriver to try to work 345 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: a lock. More than likely, so every one of those doors, 346 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: or even if he's used it to pry the crypt open, Dave, 347 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: they're going to leave scratches, okay, And those scratches can 348 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: actually be tied back to that crowbar. The crowbar that 349 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: they found. And one of the things that you find 350 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: out about criminal behavior when it to tools, whether it's 351 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: the dismembering of a body, or the methodology that they 352 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: use to kill somebody. If people are if they're repeating 353 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: these events kind of serialized, they don't like to stray 354 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: away from what they what they feel comfortable with. So 355 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, this is my prize, Crowbar. You know, it's 356 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: kind of it's not too It's kind of akin to 357 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: somebody that has their own workshop and maybe they have 358 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: a tool that they like to do beveling with they're 359 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: building furniture or whatever it is. Well, that's the tool 360 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: that they like to use. This is no different this 361 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: guy if you look at him, so you know, I 362 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: think that he's he has targeted these locations that have 363 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: easy access because he's trying to make money by extricating 364 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: anything that he can from them. And keep in mind, 365 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: if it's a mausoleum, Dave, this is kind of fascinating. 366 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: Mausoleums are not meant for poor folks, Okay, right, you 367 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: don't have street urgents that are buried in mausoleums unless 368 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: some rich person has taken and pity on this person 369 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: years and years ago. I've been in some mausoleums and 370 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: visited these things, and I'm talking about old time. Mausoleums. 371 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about kind of the modern you know, 372 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,239 Speaker 1: where people pick out a space and they're stacked in there. 373 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm talking about family mausoleums, right, And that's a very 374 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: Victorian thing to do. I mean, mausoleums have existed back 375 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: into our ancient history. Okay they have. All you got 376 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: to do is look at pyramids, all right. But in 377 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: the Victorian age it was cachet to have these things, 378 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: and it was a display of wealth, you know, and power, 379 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, and your name is engraved above the door. 380 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: I've been in some of these things that are literally opulent. 381 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: I mean, they're remarkable when you see them. One interesting 382 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: thing about mausoleums I've always been fascinated with. Some of 383 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: them will have a big dave, a great big face 384 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: plate on the door that's got an insert location for 385 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: an old fashioned sc eleton key. Wow, and you can 386 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: take the key, you know, and work the lock. I 387 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,959 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know how hard it is to 388 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: get into these things, because those locks are rather robust. 389 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: But if you've got a crowbar, and many of these 390 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: doors are like cast metal as well, you know, you'll 391 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: have them that are steel. But you'll have others that 392 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: are made out of a variety. I've seen one that 393 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: was all copper. 394 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 2: Wow. 395 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: Many times it'll have panes of glass. Now, I urge 396 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: anybody if you've ever been I like visiting cemeteries. It's 397 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: just nothing that I have. I like the art of it. 398 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: And plus them from New Orleans and cemetery tours are 399 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: a big deal down there. If you ever get a chance, 400 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: please do yourself favored and go visit the cemeteries in 401 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: New Orleans. It'll blow your mind. Some of these things 402 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: have glass, have windows where you can actually look in. 403 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: I've looked in one day that gave me, like, really 404 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: creeped me out. I remember looking in and I noticed 405 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: that somebody was looking back at and that was there 406 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: was actually a portrait stand in there with a gigantic 407 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: portrait of this beautiful woman that had probably been in 408 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: there for one hundred and twenty years if I remember 409 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: the dates correctly. And she's sitting there and she's looking 410 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: back at the door like this. So when you look 411 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: into the mausoleum, she's staring back at you. So just 412 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: that alone, and the point here is that I'm thinking 413 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: from the perspective of how much money could be made, 414 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: because the more opulent the structure, it implies that there's 415 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: going to be more value. And also I think this 416 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: guy is taking jewelry as well. I'd like to know, 417 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: also from an investigative standpoint, did he go to the 418 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 1: local I don't know where you would go to the 419 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: control point for Mount Mariah and begin to look at 420 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: how long these particular graves had been there, how who 421 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: was buried in these graves? And did he do research 422 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: on the individuals to try to bracket them in a 423 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: financial area so that he could say, Okay, there might 424 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: be a lot of valuables in here. I know that 425 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: there's this many bodies in here. See how detailed this 426 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: thing can get if he's this kind of if this 427 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: is the enterprise that he's involved in. For my money, David, 428 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: I don't know that there's anything creepier in the world 429 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: than a basement in an old house. There's just some 430 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: addicts are one thing, but basements in particular. You know 431 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: you're descending that staircase. I think some of it has 432 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: to do with the fact that you don't know if 433 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: there's a single way into the scene, you might not 434 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: be able to get out. You're down there, and you know, 435 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: you have your mind creates these fictions where you're thinking 436 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: something's going to get in between me and the staircase. 437 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: I can't get out of here. But Dave, you know 438 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: when when the police actually you know, serve the warrant 439 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: on girlatches Homeow girlatches home, they descended into his basement. 440 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: And there's also indication that he was utilizing a storage 441 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: facility somewhere nearby as well. So okay, so let me 442 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: get this straight. You've been at this so long that 443 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: you've populated your basement with all of these bodies and 444 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: body parts. Oh, by the bye, you've also got a 445 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: storage unit where you're putting human remains in as well. 446 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that they've completely revealed how 447 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: many remains there actually are. And even though they're talking 448 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: about Mount Moriah Cemetery, there's another cemetery that we don't 449 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: know that that's all of the cemetery's brother We really 450 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: don't at this point in tom. 451 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: There are at least two, at least two cemeteries, that's 452 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: what we do know, at least two. 453 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: Bye. 454 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 2: Going back to the tipster, Okay, and I don't know 455 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 2: if this was one person calling in a tip, or 456 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: if it was multiple people. But we do know that 457 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: police were informed of information that they were able to 458 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 2: back up when they went in there. You mentioned, you know, 459 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: I mentioned the flies earlier. Well, police, we've got this 460 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: tip that mentions partially decomposed corpse hanging hanging in girl 461 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: Axe basement. And that same tip is the one that 462 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 2: told them, yeah, he traveled to Chicago to sell a 463 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: human skull. Now, the information from the person who called 464 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 2: in the tip was enough for them to dig in deeper. 465 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: I hate to say that, but to go further into 466 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: the investigation. 467 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: Where did he go to sell a skull? 468 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: He went to Chicago, Yeah, he went Chicago from where 469 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: he was in Pennsylvania. But you know, Joe, you were 470 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 2: talking about going into the basement and weird things. Do 471 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: you remember the story we did. It was about the 472 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: guy Joseph Bannis and Jeffrey mund Yeah. 473 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. 474 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: I'm thinking Okay, in this particular case they had and 475 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 2: that one where they murdered the guy and buried him. 476 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 2: They put him in a tub, dug a hole and 477 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: put him in there in the basement, covered it up. Well, 478 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: this is like the opposite of that, this guy is 479 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 2: hanging him where everybody can see that there's actually what 480 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: he is doing is so nothing to him that he 481 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 2: actually has somebody he is invited into his home that 482 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: sees a corpse hanging and knows that he sold a 483 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: skull in Chicago. But this is where I go back 484 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 2: to the corpse versus skeleton Joe, What was hanging and 485 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 2: how long? I mean, we know that know that the 486 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: beginning of what they can prove was the first grave 487 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 2: robbing was November seventh of twenty twenty five. Yeah, and 488 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 2: the last one was the night it was caught January sixth. 489 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 2: So in that time period they can isolate the number 490 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: of cemeteries that have been broken into, and they can 491 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: at least start with something like that, and that might 492 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: give them an idea as to who these parts of 493 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 2: skeletons and bones belonged to them. 494 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be how are you going. 495 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: To identify one hundred girl? 496 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's break it down from this perspective. 497 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: If he's got like, okay, let's just say that he's 498 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: got a set of human remains. Now I don't know 499 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: what status would be. Okay, maybe they're folded in together 500 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: with very little what you could be termed a soft tissue. 501 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: Who knows that? Still can you still have to send 502 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: you there? If you will? All right, just still connecting 503 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: now that remain if they get that isolated, because he 504 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: might be saying, you never know what his sales pitch is. Hey, 505 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: I've got an entire human remain out of a coffin 506 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: or out of a casket. I want to sell you. 507 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: All the parts are intact. Hey, I've even got the 508 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: burial closed. The body is still in the burial clothes. 509 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: You know. It's like, but wait, there's more, you know, 510 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Whereas if you've got other remains 511 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: that are there, this is something that we refer to 512 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: as commingling of remains. Commingling of remains is where you 513 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: get multiple burials. And most of the time this happens 514 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: like in a mass grave, okay, where bodies will be 515 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: in to break down and deturbation of the earth. You know, 516 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,959 Speaker 1: the bodies begin to kind of roll underground, all these 517 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: water flow and all that stuff, and you get this 518 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: big missmash of remains. That's not what we're talking about. 519 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: We're talking about a guy that specifically, methodically went into 520 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: these locations. I'm really wondering. I'm really wondering if he 521 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: had specific And this goes back to the thought about research. 522 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if he has specific identifiers, because that's like 523 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: a pitch. Okay, just think about it from a sales position, 524 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: that's like a pitch. A Yeah, I've got Well, I've 525 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: got a lady that was approximately forty three years old 526 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: at the time of death. She comes from family a 527 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: wealthy industrialist. She mingled with the Astor family in New 528 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: York or you know whatever, you know whatever big family 529 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: there was back in Philly in the day. Okay, And 530 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: so that's a point of sale. Wow, And if you 531 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: can take that and you can validate that, maybe these 532 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: people want validation. I'm curious about the skull that he 533 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: sold in Chicago. Here's one other thing. Why would you 534 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: drive it to Chicago? That seems like that would that 535 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: seems as though that that would blow your profit margin 536 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: all to hell if you're driving all that distance. You know, 537 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: how much was he getting for the skull? You know, 538 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,959 Speaker 1: are we talking one thousand dollars for a skull? 539 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: Well? 540 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you're talking about putting gas in 541 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: your car and driving all that way, Yeah, it'd be 542 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: worth it. But if you're you know, if you're selling 543 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: a human skull for one hundred bucks and you're driving 544 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: all the way from the Philly area to Chicago. You 545 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I'm looking at this not just 546 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: as a forensics guy. I'm looking at this trying to 547 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: understand the business principle because this is so weird for 548 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: us in the sense of how we normally handle multiple remains. 549 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: I'm wondering what level of organization he had. 550 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 2: Dave. 551 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: Now, going back to your and I know that this 552 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: is a question that's gnawing at everybody's brain in this 553 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: How how will in fact these bodies be specifically identified? Well, 554 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: you know where I'm going with this. I'm thinking about 555 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: forensic genetic genealogy because and do you remember the author 556 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: case that we had the woman in the well. Do 557 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: you remember that from Canada where she had last been 558 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: seen just after World War One and they found her 559 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: down in that well well. Authoram actually did her DNA 560 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: And remember that story, how the cops just showed up 561 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: at like the great granddaughter's door. You imagine that, So 562 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: if these people are plugged in on any level. You know, 563 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: with a genetic sample out there, are they going to 564 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: go this far? Are they going to seek out the 565 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: assistance of someone like Authorm or Authorm themselves. It all 566 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: depends on what they can tie back. Now, I can 567 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: guarantee you this, Dave. There will be a forensic anthropologist, 568 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: probably a whole team of them that will get involved 569 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: in this. And there's a couple of really good programs, 570 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: university programs up up in PA. I know they're going 571 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: to drag those that skill set to bear because there's 572 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: not a lot that a forensic pathologist could do here. 573 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: You're not trying to assess injuries, Okay, what you're trying 574 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: to do is age the skeletal remains. You're trying to 575 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: sex the skeletal remains. You're trying to Oh, here's another 576 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: big one. When I say age, it's not just like 577 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: the age how long has this person been dead or 578 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: how long have they been buried? What was there age 579 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: at the time of death? You know, because that's going 580 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: to be a big point of interest here to try 581 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: to understand it. Well, we've got Mary Martin Murphy who 582 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: her grave is robbed and we know that she was 583 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: thirty two when she died? Is there skull? And here, 584 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: first off, that is whatever her race is, let's say white, 585 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: and they're going to look at her teeth. They're going 586 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: to say, yeah, this person might be thirty to forty 587 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: five years of age. We know that this is a 588 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 1: female skull, all these sorts of things, and maybe she 589 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: had some kind of history of a frag a skull 590 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: or something happened to her skull in life. Are there 591 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: identifiers where you can go back well genetically, if they 592 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: can get samples off of this, Uh, that's certainly going 593 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: to be fascinating. Here's another thing, Dave, that it just 594 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: kind of popped in a mind. I'm kind of spitballing 595 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: here right now. Forgive me, but. 596 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 2: You know. 597 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: This, this environment that this rocket scientist has allegedly and 598 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: he's just been charged, he hasn't been convicted, has it 599 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: introduced himself in as a rather toxic environment? All right? 600 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: And I don't mean toxic in the touchy feely way. 601 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: I'm talking about when you consider the chemical stew that 602 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,959 Speaker 1: was used way back when to embalm bodies. We're talking 603 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: about heavy metals, you know, mercury, those sorts of things 604 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: that now you're he's actually yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You 605 00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: begin to think about he's actually and I don't know 606 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,240 Speaker 1: if he's using gloves, and it doesn't really matter because 607 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: this stuff is. If he's sawing on these bones, Dave, 608 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: he's going to create a histament and that can be inhaled, 609 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: all right, and anybody that's in this environment you're going 610 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: to have to get I would imagine this is just 611 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: me spitballing here. I would imagine that the state of 612 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is going to have to get their version of 613 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: the EPA or maybe the federal EPA to come in 614 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: and clean this house. Or well, they won't clean it, 615 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: but they'll they'll come in and say, you have to 616 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: clean it because based upon our testing here, this is 617 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: what we're finding in here. Do you see how extensive 618 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: this thing is? You know, because they've cracked up in 619 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: these graves. There was no prohibition against using these chemicals 620 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: and embalming back then and anything else and so and 621 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: not just that, but the neighborhood where this guy lived. 622 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: Let's just think about the storage facility, all of the 623 00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: surrounding storage areas there. These things might be high contaminated 624 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: as well. 625 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 2: Wow, Joe, so he's don't see how this began on 626 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 2: November this, you know, seventh, and ended January sixth. I 627 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 2: just don't see it happening in that. 628 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, brother, I'm not buying it. 629 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 2: No, there's got to be something else here. And granted, 630 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 2: I mean too much was done. That's a lot. There's 631 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 2: a lot of charges here, you know that. And they 632 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 2: don't do that. They they don't just throw these things 633 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: around and talk about the police. You know, you've got it, 634 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 2: you got charging documents and everything else the spells out 635 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 2: of case. But in this case, Joe, we're going to 636 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:32,919 Speaker 2: be working this one for a while. 637 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: I think so. And I also think that it would 638 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: I would really be interested if there was anybody else 639 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: involved in this enterprise. Yeah, because you know there was 640 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: a Facebook group that was created or that he kind 641 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: of interjected himself into. We don't know a lot about 642 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: it at this point in time, but we do know 643 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,479 Speaker 1: that there is a Facebook group associated with this where 644 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, he was featured. I think there's even an 645 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: image of him was it was posted on this Facebook 646 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 1: group where he's he's holding a skull. Yes, and again, 647 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: who's who's facilitating this another and. 648 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 2: On the Facebook page show it says if you purchased 649 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 2: anything from Jonathan Gerlac, contact the FBI. 650 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: Well, so, now, yeah, the EPA is going to show up. 651 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 2: I can, I can. 652 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: I can read this a mile away. The FEDS are 653 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: involved in this, and plus Dave, this is one other thing. 654 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: This is illegal interstate commerce as well. You know, just 655 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: the fact the FEDS are onto this because he's traveled 656 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: to Chicago, Dave to sell a human human a part 657 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: of a human body. So they're going to be all 658 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: over this. This is going to be one. I don't 659 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: know if it'll be for the record books. This is 660 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: not the first time, certainly that you and I have 661 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: covered grave robbery or at least to sell of human remains. 662 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: But I don't recall if there's ever been one that 663 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: so defiled graves to the point where it's broken down 664 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 1: into dollars and cents, where somebody is using human remains 665 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: in order to make a living off of them. I 666 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: don't know there's going to be much more revealed in 667 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,280 Speaker 1: this case. I can't wait as a true crime person, 668 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: as a forensic scientist in particular, to see the process. 669 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: And I think that Dave, we need to make a 670 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: note of this. We need to do an entire episode 671 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: on nothing but the identification of each individual remain and 672 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: just walk through that process, because it is going to 673 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: be overwhelming. If what we're hearing right now at this 674 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: point in time, with the number of remains that they 675 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: allegedly have and that he had in his possession, all 676 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: I can say is, friends, stay tuned. I'm Joseph Scott 677 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,800 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybugs. 678 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 2: H