1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: LinkedIn News. 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: Not even like five minutes into this conversation with him, 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 2: I start just pulling my eyes out, like full meant 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: to be, Like I was not okay. I was really 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: just overwhelmed and it all had come to a breaking point. 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 2: And I realized through the tears that I was just overworked. 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: I was saying yes to everything. I really wanted to 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: prove myself and I had too much on my plate 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: that I was gonna let things slip. And it happened. 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 2: From LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. This is Let's Talk Offline, 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: a show about what it takes to thrive in the 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity 13 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: or sleep. I'm Gianna Prudenti. 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadston. You guys know a word 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: people do not like to hear, but it is extremely important. No. 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: It's really hard for a lot of us to say no, 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: because whether you are just starting out in your or 18 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: you've been in your job for a while but you're 19 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: trying to get promoted, we all have struggled with saying no. 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: Trust me, I have certainly been there. You really want 21 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: to make a great impression and most importantly, you want 22 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: people to know that they can rely on you. But honestly, 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: saying yes to everything can be super detrimental and at 24 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: what cost. 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: Boundaries are something all of us have, whether that's the 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: number of tasks we're willing to take on at work 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: or the conversations we're willing to participate in. You know, 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: got to protect that social battery. But where a lot 29 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: of us trip up is actually enforcing those boundaries. It's 30 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 2: not easy putting your foot down, especially to the boss, 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: but we're going to show you that there's so much 32 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: power in saying no. 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: So today, you guys, gian and I are going to 34 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: talk about workplace boundaries, what stops us from making them, 35 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: and how to communicate them with your coworkers. Gianna, boundaries 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: are super important because they just have so many benefits. 37 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: First of all, they help with our overall wellbeing. They 38 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: helped protect our mental health, maybe even our physical, emotional, 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: spiritual health, all the healths is. It also increases our 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: productivity and contributes to our own personal growth. So I'm 41 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: super excited to talk about this because I have a 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: lot to say. But Jianna, let's start with you. Have 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: you struggled to set boundaries for yourself. 44 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, how much time do we have? One of my 45 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: earliest memories of corporate America, this beautiful world where we work, 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: was a mistake that I made, my first ever mistake, 47 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: which still gives me anxiety to think about. And that 48 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,559 Speaker 2: was a result of not enforcing any boundaries. So basically 49 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: what happened was when I started my job at LinkedIn, 50 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: I desperately wanted to prove myself and I wanted to 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: build a reputation as somebody who could do multiple things, 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 2: like I could wear multiple hats, and I thought that's 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: how you would be rewarded, right as somebody who can 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: do a bunch of things. So I thought the more 55 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: I took on, the more I would be seen as 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: a high performer, and really got caught up in the 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 2: quantity of my work rather than the quality. And also 58 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 2: at the time, I was on a contract trying to 59 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: go full time, so I really was like, I will 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: do anything to get that offer and make that transition. 61 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: So naturally I said yes to every single task that 62 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: came my way, and of course the quality of my 63 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: work suffered, so that all came to a head when 64 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: this one day I made a decision, a very rash decision, 65 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: and it was a little bit of a cutting corner 66 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: to be totally transparent. I was like, I have so 67 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: much on my plate, so like I'm just going to 68 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: do this really quickly and move on. And I thought, 69 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: you know, this decision was going to be fine. Yeah 70 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: it was not. It was not. 71 00:03:58,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: It was not fine. 72 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, all of a sudden, like slacks were going off, 73 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: like I had made this big mistake. All these like 74 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: higher ups were getting involved. My manager wasn't even online 75 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: at the time, like it was like too earlier today, 76 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: like it was the start of the day. So I 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 2: was hyperventilating, started immediately freaking out and quickly tried to resolve, 78 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: you know, the issue at hand. But I realized like, okay, 79 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: I had made this really rash decision and this was 80 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: a kind of mistake where like they have a post 81 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: mortem about it. 82 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: You really. 83 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: Really bad. 84 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: Can just imagine like Gianna's face on a poster guy 85 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: and a meeting in a boardroom in and I. 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: Wasn't even in the most mortal like I was really scared. 87 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: But anyway, a post mortem is like when something goes wrong, 88 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: you have a meeting to discuss what happened and how 89 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: you can you know, do better next time that I 90 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: didn't even know those existed. All of a sudden I 91 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: saw that get thrown on the calendar for other people. 92 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: I was like, oh shoot, what did I do? So 93 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: I literally called my mom. I was like, I'm getting fired. 94 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 2: This is the end. But anyway, so that happened, and 95 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 2: then I had a conversation with my manager. I messaged 96 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 2: him and I was like, here's what just happened. Here's 97 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: how I helped resolve it, but obviously we need to talk. 98 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: So not even like five minutes into this conversation with him, 99 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: I start just pulling my eyes out, like full meant 100 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: to be, Like I was not okay. I was really 101 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: just overwhelmed and it all had come to a breaking point. 102 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 2: And in that conversation with him, I realized through the 103 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: tears that I was just overworked. I was saying yes 104 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: to everything. I really wanted to prove myself and I 105 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 2: had too much on my plate that I was gonna 106 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: let things slip. And it happened, right, So, yeah, that 107 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: was my first lesson in the importance of having boundaries. 108 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: But let me just say it has not gotten easier 109 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: saying no. It's something that I think most people struggle with, 110 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: especially when you're early in your career. But that was 111 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: my first time realizing like, Okay, I not only have 112 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: the power to say no, but I need to write 113 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: I can't be saying yes to everything. 114 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: HM question, though, why do you think it has not 115 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:12,679 Speaker 1: gotten easier? 116 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: I feel like when you're starting out, there's still that 117 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 2: pressure to prove yourself, especially in certain workplaces, like I'm 118 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: very fortunate that nobody's like, oh, Gianna's like the young 119 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: person and she doesn't know how it is, and she's, 120 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: you know, she has to work her way up and 121 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: build her reputation. Everyone's very open to ideas here, which 122 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: I think is really refreshing. But I think in general, 123 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: we feel like, Okay, we're coming in. We don't have experience, right, 124 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: we need to show that we're able to do the job, 125 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: so that means like not turning things down. It almost 126 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: feels like you don't have permission to say no. And 127 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: I think once you start doing it, you feel more 128 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: comfortable with it. But in the beginning it feels like 129 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: it's not even possible, and then yes, you start doing 130 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: it and you get more comfortable but it's still nerve 131 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: wracking being like, hey, I'm not able to take this 132 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: on because you think like they're gonna be like, oh, 133 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: she can't handle it, right, Like, oh, Gianna, she's so stressed, 134 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: she's so overwork, she can't handle it. Where really, you're 135 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: just protecting your mental health. 136 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, everything you said makes a lot of sense. 137 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: And I think that when I think about my life, 138 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that you said are reflected 139 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: in that. First of all, the idea that you can't 140 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: even say no. So when I was thinking about setting 141 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: boundaries for myself, I often go back to the first 142 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: memory of what my life in corporate America was gonna 143 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: look like, and that was me being a young child 144 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: and my mother telling me, you are black, you are 145 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: a woman, and you might be curvy when you grow up. Okay. 146 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: I was a little skinny girl when I was younger 147 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: because I was playing athletics. But baby, I got hips now, Okay. 148 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: She was like, you are going to show up in 149 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: the world and just by the natural order of who 150 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 1: you are, you will have to work two, three, four 151 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: times harder than other counterparts of yours. And that stuck 152 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: with me because I think from that moment on every 153 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: time I got into a work situation, whether it was creative, 154 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: whether it was me touring with the dance companies, or 155 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: coming to college, or even the jobs I took after school, 156 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: I always knew Jamay does not get the privilege of 157 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: doing the bare minimum. And it's a sad reality that unfortunately, 158 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: a lot of professionals of color in particular or marginalized 159 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: communities have to face. But I went into every situation knowing, 160 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: you work as hard as you have to because you 161 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: have to prove to people that you deserve to be here, 162 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: because unfortunately, there are just gonna be people who look 163 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: at you and don't believe that you belong here. I mean, heck, 164 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: I've been doing this now for however many years, and 165 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: I still get certain side eyes when people find out 166 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: that I work in tech, because what a girl with 167 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: blonde hair and big lashes and long nails can't be here, 168 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? There is still a stigma 169 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: around people who look like me, So it kind of 170 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: becomes a thing where I have to show up not 171 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: just because of me, but because the next little black 172 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: girl who you want to hire as your intern, You're 173 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: gonna be like oh, if I had a bad experience 174 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: with Ja May, I don't want to do it. It's 175 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: sad that we have to have these conversations, but it's true. 176 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: And the reason why I'm laying all of this out 177 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: there is because I know that there is someone listening 178 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: who is like, yeah, I have to sometimes feel the 179 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: weight of the world on my shoulders, even though that 180 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: is not fair. The reason why that's important for us 181 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: to discuss is because I had no work boundaries. As 182 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: a result, I can't say no to the boss because 183 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: if I say no, like you said, she or here 184 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: is gonna think, oh, she can't do it, or see 185 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: this is why we shouldn't have hired her, or see 186 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: this is why we can't promote her. You saying no 187 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: feels so scary because you think what is on the 188 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: other side of that no. And throughout my career I 189 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: always worked multiple jobs where I just did not have 190 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: a work life boundary. There was no such things as 191 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: a work life balance. Like balance was not in my 192 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: curriculum of knowledge throughout my twenties, and so it wasn't 193 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: until I got older, and I would say older, like 194 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: into like my late twenties, where all of the long 195 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: nights in the early mornings had started to take a 196 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: toll on me physically. I got really, really sick my 197 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: senior year in college. That put me on a lot 198 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: of medications that, honestly, even ten plus years later, where 199 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: you are still solving for with doctors. And I say 200 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: that because stress will do so much to your body. 201 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: And I often think had I established stronger work boundaries 202 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: earlier in my career, how much would I have saved 203 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: myself the heartache of the stress later. So this is 204 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: why this conversation is really important to me, because now 205 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: is the time for you to set the boundary and 206 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: to hold yourself to it, but more importantly, hold others 207 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: to it. Because one thing I have learned is that 208 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: people will test that boundary. They will dip their toe 209 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: in that pool to see if it is a kiddie 210 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: pool or if it is a deep tank for a shark. 211 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: And the thing is the only person who can purn 212 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 1: c meate that boundary is you. So if other people 213 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: are violating that boundary, it's because you're not enforcing it enough. 214 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 2: So we know boundaries at work are important, But what 215 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 2: kind of boundaries can we set and how do we 216 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: go about doing that. 217 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: That's next. 218 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: After the break, we're back and talking even more about boundaries, 219 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: which can be so hard to set, especially when you're 220 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: just starting out, whether you're a new grad or you're 221 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: changing jobs. Early on, you feel this need just to 222 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 2: prove yourself to everyone, so you take on more and 223 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: more responsibilities and sometimes it just comes to a head, 224 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: like it did in my situation. But setting boundaries at work, 225 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: it's not even important. It is absolutely crucial, it. 226 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: Is super crucial. It is the most crucialists of the crucialsts. 227 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: So I want us to bring in our listener question 228 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: for the week. This is Dear Work Bestie, where we 229 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: answer the questions that you all send us. This week's 230 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: question comes from Carly in New Jersey, who asks. 231 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 3: So, I've been at my new job a little over 232 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 3: a year, and when I left my old job, I 233 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 3: made a goal for myself that when I started this 234 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: new position, I was going to start setting more boundaries 235 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: for myself to create a better work life balance. But 236 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 3: I'm still struggling with saying no when I don't have 237 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 3: the bandwidth and I don't have the capacity to take 238 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 3: on any more deliverables. How do you decide when something 239 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 3: is worth saying no to, and how do you professionally 240 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 3: communicate that. 241 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 2: I love that Carly started this new job with the 242 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: goal of setting better boundaries, because I think the first 243 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: step is recognizing that's something you need to address. And 244 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: she mentions deliverables, which I just want to clarify in 245 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: case you're not familiar with the term. A deliverable is 246 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: something that you're handing in or providing, maybe to your 247 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: manager or team. So a deliverable could be like a 248 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: slide deck, which is basically a fancy term for like 249 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: a power point presentation. 250 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: A report, right presentation, Yeah, just something that you actually 251 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: have to turn in, right, Yeah. 252 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: I think that's so important is first understanding what can 253 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: I even set a boundary around. And I think it's 254 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: also really important to understand the effects of taking on 255 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: too much, which in Carly's situation, she's saying, you know, 256 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 2: I don't have the bandwidth and capacity to take on 257 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: more deliverables. And you know, I remember this conversation I 258 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: once had with an organizational psychologist for a newsletter article 259 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 2: I was writing, and she was sharing the negative effects 260 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: of overworking, which I think so many of us experience 261 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 2: and don't even recognize while it's happening, And she said, 262 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: you know, it's trouble concentrating, poor quality of sleep, You're 263 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: more irritable, you have less patience, you have headaches, and 264 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: all these symptoms then impact our performance. And I totally 265 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: relate to this because at one point where I was 266 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: really stressed at work, I had a lot on my plate. 267 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: I remember I would I talk to my mom every day. 268 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: I love you, Mom, and she would call me and 269 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 2: I would be so irritable on the phone and I 270 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: would always have to text her after and be like, hey, 271 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, like it was just a busy day, 272 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: and I really like probably shouldn't have taken the phone 273 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: call because I was just like so mentally tapped out. 274 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: So it actually impacts your personal life. Oh absolutely, That's 275 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: the reason why these boundaries are so important. I'm wondering, 276 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: from your own experience, what kind of boundaries have you sat? Like, 277 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: what's even possible? 278 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: Ooh? 279 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: I love this because everyone's situation is so different, right, 280 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: So I like to think of boundaries well, one as expectations, Right, 281 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: what are people's expectations of how you're going to show up? 282 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: So I really want everyone to first of all, remember 283 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: that there are different types of boundaries that you can enforce. 284 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: So I like to break this down into two different 285 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: big buckets. The first one is physical, and yes I 286 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: am actually speaking both physically, like back up, get why 287 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: are you so close to me? Like you are? Okay? 288 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: To enforce that hand holding, touching, you know, high fiving, hugging. 289 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: You know, some people like to greet people in the 290 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: morning with a hug. Some people don't want to be 291 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: touched and maybe you don't want to be touched hers. 292 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: Just so I know, it really depends on the day. 293 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: You'll see it in my eyes what I'm feeling. But 294 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: like you know, there's the physical. But also when I 295 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: say physical, I mean other technical things of the job. 296 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: So for instance, sometimes you can determine what your hours 297 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: are working, right, maybe you are a nine to five 298 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: corporate baddy, maybe you might be a ten to six. 299 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: Maybe you might you know, be taking a class in 300 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: the middle of the day so you make up those 301 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: hours later on. Those are conversations that you would want 302 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: to have with your manager. Another thing that I think 303 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: is really important are things like calendars. Right, I am 304 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: a girl, it has to be on the calendar, A 305 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: minimum of twenty four hours in advance. If you throw 306 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: something on my unless it's like an emergency, please do 307 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: not do same day things on my calendar, because by 308 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: then I have already mapped out my day and I 309 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: already know how my day is gonna flow, and throwing 310 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: on a fifteen twenty thirty minute out of nowhere, first 311 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: of all, can be varying anxiety inducing. 312 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: Right. 313 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: So you also can control your calendar and enforcing how 314 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: people work with that, keeping it up to date, and 315 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: making sure that people put it on the calendar. Another 316 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: thing that I think is really important, especially now that 317 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people are working remotely, is camera on 318 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: and off. Baby, Like if there there might be a 319 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: day of the week you just don't want to have 320 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: your camera on, you know, or maybe after a certain 321 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: time or before a certain time. So those are a 322 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: couple of examples of physical boundaries, right, But then you 323 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: also have mental boundaries, and I think these are the 324 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: ones that people really think about when we talk about 325 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: enforcing them. These are different things like choosing not to 326 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: be part of certain discussions. Right. It can be as 327 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: lighthearted as not wanting to gossip about fellow people in 328 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: the office and you don't want to be involved in 329 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: that all the way to the most hearty conversations that 330 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: talk about race. You know, I will never forget when 331 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: I was working in media a couple of years ago 332 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: when George Floyd was murdered and a lot of people 333 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: wanted to have a lot of discussions on email and 334 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: slack and make it and bring what was happening in 335 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: our personal lives to work, and I said, there has 336 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: to be an escape for me because I feel this 337 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: very very deeply. So no, I do not want to 338 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: be added to the slack thread. No, I am not 339 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: about to educate other people on what books they need 340 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: to read to learn more about the black experience. I 341 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: had a right then to step away from that discussion, 342 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: and you have the right to to step away from 343 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: certain discussions that trigger you that you don't feel comfortable with. 344 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: And here's the thing that I want to emphasize. It 345 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: does not matter why you say no to that. You 346 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: do not have to justify nor explain to people. It 347 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: could just be something that you just really don't want 348 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: to be a part of it. I don't want to 349 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: be part of this mess, you know, So you are 350 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: okay to say no other things, is like understanding what 351 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: your own capabilities are. There are sometimes, Gianna, where the 352 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: anxiety wins for me and Sam, the anxiety wins, And 353 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: those are the days I have to have a real 354 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: heart tart conversation with my manager or with my team 355 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: or with the people who I'm working on projects with, 356 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: and I'm just being like, look, guys, I'm not operating 357 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: at one hundred today. This is what I can give. 358 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: How can we pivot and navigate? And those are conversations 359 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: that you have to have, right And so I definitely 360 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: think that when we think about boundaries, think about the 361 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: physical boundaries that you would want to enforce, but really 362 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: take a step and think about those mental boundaries. 363 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,239 Speaker 2: But then, of course it comes to communicating it. And 364 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 2: you mentioned this before, when it comes to having that 365 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: conversation with your manager. And when I was speaking to 366 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 2: this organizational psychologist, she said to me, Jianna, no is 367 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: a complete sentence, and I was like, You're so right 368 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 2: about that. But in the workplace where there are power dynamics, 369 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: especially when you're early in your career, I think giving 370 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: context can be really helpful and I think it makes 371 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: you feel more comfortable saying no. Ultimately, though, and she 372 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: mentioned this, it comes down to the psychological safety you 373 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 2: feel with your colleagues or your manager. So do you 374 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: feel comfortable sharing with your new manager that you're overloaded? 375 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: Let's say you did that was my experience, you know, 376 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: when I made that early mistake at work. 377 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: You can say. 378 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: Something like, Hey, I'm trying to maintain the quality of 379 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: my work. Here's what I've done to already organize myself. Together, 380 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 2: can we decide the best way to handle my workload? 381 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: If this new task you're giving me is a top priority, 382 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 2: you are able to then prioritize your tasks and come 383 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: together to make a plan moving forward. The reality is, 384 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: though everyone might not feel comfortable with their manager or 385 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 2: might think, you know, I can't say no to this person. 386 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 2: So I think it can be helpful in those situations 387 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: to find allies. Right, So you and I are working 388 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 2: on a podcast right now together. Let's say I'm totally 389 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: work with something outside of this, and we have a task, 390 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 2: we have a deadline for the podcast. Maybe I come 391 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: to you and I'm like, hey, Jamay, can I pass 392 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: this off to you? I know I said I would 393 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 2: do it, but I'm just totally overworked right now, and 394 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: you're like, oh, gee, totally got you. I'll take it. 395 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: So then I could go to my manager and be like, hey, 396 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 2: for that project I'm working on with Jamay, she mentioned 397 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 2: she has the bandwidth to actually take on that task, 398 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 2: so I'm going to pass, you know, some of those 399 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: duties off to her so I can prioritize what you're 400 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: now giving me. Right, So you're coming in already with 401 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: an action plan and being like they can say you know, okay, 402 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: that sounds great, or you can end that with like, 403 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: what do you think about this? Right, so they could 404 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: be like, oh, that sounds great, or you know, maybe 405 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: we could do X, Y and Z. But it opens 406 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: that conversation with somebody who you might not feel comfortable 407 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: having that conversation with in the first place. But ultimately, 408 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 2: it's about, you know, identifying what is the must have 409 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 2: work I need to get done and what is the 410 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: nice to have stuff that I can maybe move further 411 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: down my to do list. And this is literally why 412 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: I started using Google doc with my to do list, 413 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 2: so I could physically move around my tasks into later 414 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 2: in the week. Because my physical planner, like I love 415 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: to write down I have like a thousand notebooks was 416 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: getting so messy for me scribbling out things I didn't 417 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: get to But now because it's digital, I get to 418 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: just move things around and it's so beautiful and organized. 419 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna need a copy yea with template with. 420 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: Little like checkboxes that cross it out. Oh, it's so satisfying. 421 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: But you have to build a boundary system that has 422 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: some flex in it. 423 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I really love the verbiage that you provided 424 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: that people can use, mostly because I think for a 425 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: lot of people, when we say no, we're terrified about 426 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: the assumption that we just cannot physically do it, like 427 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: that there's something incompetent about us that is the reason 428 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: why we are not able to achieve whatever. And that 429 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: can be very terrifying when you're trying to talk to 430 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: a manager because you don't want them to get that 431 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: as the perception of you. So I like the verbage 432 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: you use because it's actually saying, invite your manager to 433 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: be a partner with you in this. And then lastly, 434 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: I think it's really important here for you to be 435 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: compassionate towards yourself. Right, you got to give yourself grease 436 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: because you are going to beat yourself up trying to 437 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: live up to this unrealistic standard of work excellence that 438 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: you have in your mind. And I get it. You 439 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: are starting out in your career. You are just starting out. 440 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: You really want to prove yourself. But baby, I promise you, 441 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: in five ten years, you will not care that one 442 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: extra assignment that you stayed up all night working on 443 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: is not gonna get you the promotion more than likely not. 444 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: And I guarantee you when you are in your late 445 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: twenties early thirties, you were gonna look back. You're not 446 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: even gonna remember all the stuff that you did. So 447 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: I always like to say, like, is this going to 448 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: matter in a year from now? The reality is most 449 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: things don't. So set the boundary. Stand for a minute 450 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: and be compassionate towards yourself. 451 00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 2: I love that. 452 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: We're gonna take a short break. We've still got a 453 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: lot more to say about boundaries. And also we're gonna 454 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: talk about why you should maybe think twice about wearing 455 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: white shorts in the office. That's next. Okay, guys, So 456 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: you guys have heard us talk to Carly about her situation. 457 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: But hopefully you all are walking away with actionable, tangible 458 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: feelings about how to enforce your boundaries. A couple of 459 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: things that I am taking away from this conversation is 460 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: that as hard as boundaries are, they are absolutely necessary. 461 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: And the beautiful thing about a boundary is that you 462 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: can determine today what your boundary is, and it can 463 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: shift and pivot and move, and it's flexible and you 464 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: always have the right to change that boundary. Another thing 465 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: that I think is really important is that it's okay 466 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: to start small, right Like your work boundary doesn't have 467 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: to be this big ginormous thing, like I'm only gonna 468 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: work here and I need a trailer and a diva, 469 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: and like you don't have to do all that. You 470 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: can start even something as small as just like when 471 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna respond to emails or navigating when deadlines are 472 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: going to hit, or what you need to do during 473 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: your day. And the beautiful thing about a boundaries that 474 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't just apply to your work life. You can 475 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: do it with family, you can do it with friends. 476 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: I encourage you to do it with them and practice 477 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: with people who you love. Gianna, what do you think? 478 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: I love that. I love that you mentioned small boundaries 479 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 2: to start. I think that's so important. A few things 480 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: I'm taking away are from what you said, which is 481 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: the more upfront you are about your boundaries and the 482 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 2: earlier on you set them, the better off you'll be 483 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: in the long run, because your career is long. It's 484 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 2: a long time, so you will truly burn out multiple 485 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 2: times if you don't set those boundaries. I think what 486 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 2: I'm still learning, which I'm hoping to improve, is when 487 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: you set a boundary, you gotta stick to it for yourself. 488 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: Like I have a lot of flex in my own 489 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: boundaries now, and you were saying, you know, when you 490 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 2: set them, enforce them and communicate them. So I think 491 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: that's something I'm taking away is that you have the 492 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: power one to say no, but also to enforce those 493 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: boundaries after the fact. 494 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I hate to be that person, but I'm 495 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you all besties, people will try 496 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: to play you, and it's just human nature, but people 497 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: will try to play you. So if you have a boundary, 498 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: Let's say your boundary is I don't respond to emails 499 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: after five pm. Someone is gonna send you that six 500 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: pm email and if you respond, you have just showed them. 501 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: Oh I will actually respond, So now your boundary is 502 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: not enforceable. So the day that you really need it 503 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: to be five, nobody is gonna respect you. You gotta 504 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: have respect in these streets, stand up, talk, straightening it back. 505 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: That's me, Yeah, that's me. 506 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 2: But I'm working on it, I promise. Okay, jam I 507 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: think it's time we switch it up. Oh, we are 508 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 2: going to move into our next segment, which is called 509 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: miss Understood the assignment. This is where we talk about 510 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: some of our biggest work fails, through all of them, 511 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: from those embarrassing cringe moments to our most humbling moments 512 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 2: at work, and what we've learned from those experiences. Jamay, 513 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: I think you've got a story for us this week. 514 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: Oh, I absolutely do. I'm ready, and honestly, the story 515 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: is top of mind because it is warm right now, 516 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: and it's hot. It is hot, hot, hot, and I 517 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: have been outside and I've been seeing a lot of 518 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: people and really nice summer outfits, and it reminded me 519 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: of the trauma that I faced. So let me tell you, 520 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: Giana of the time, Jamay war White. 521 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: Short no office. 522 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: So years ago I started working on a fashion magazine, 523 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: which makes it all the worse. Right like this, is 524 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: like a high profile women's lifestyle magazine still in its 525 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: very print and digital era. I was working in the 526 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: fashion department and so I remember wearing this outfit to work. 527 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: I was probably like on my it was like week 528 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: one and a half, right, so like long enough that 529 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: the girls knew who I was, but not long enough 530 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: that they knew I was to that girl, you know 531 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: what I mean. So I wore this blue and white 532 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,959 Speaker 1: striped shirt and these white linen shorts. I thought I 533 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: was the cutest thing since slice bread Baby. Okay, the 534 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: waist he probably were okay, yeah, the booty was sitting 535 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: like everything was good. Okay. So we were at lunch 536 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: and essentially there was like a outdoor area because it 537 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: sat over the what is the Hudson that you can 538 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: see across and look to Jersey. I don't know you're 539 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: a Jersey in Yeah, yeah, because the Hudson. 540 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: Right. 541 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: So I went and got my lunch and then I 542 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: went and sat outside, and outside seating was like wood. 543 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: So I sat down and I immediately felt something wet 544 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: underneath me. So I stood up and I looked, and 545 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: I didn't see anything. So I was like, okay, that's 546 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: kind of weird. Maybe you know, I just imagined it 547 00:27:58,920 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: in my head. 548 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 549 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: Go Throughout the rest of the day, I'm walking the hallways, 550 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: I'm switching. I'm feeling like fraying fine up in here, okay, 551 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: And people are like looking at me, and I'm like, yeah, 552 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: because I'm that girl. I'm that girl. I'm that girl. 553 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: Sleigh slay Sleigh like vote vote vote, Gianna. It was 554 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: the end of the day. Oh, it was like after 555 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: six pm, and I was like, okay, I gotta go 556 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: to the bathroom. For whatever reason that day, I just, 557 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: oh my God, to use the bathroom. I don't know, 558 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what was going on. I went to 559 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: the bathroom and I did like last looks. As I 560 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: was leaving out, I turned around and on the back 561 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: of these white linen shorts was a reddish brown liquid 562 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: stain that made it look like period blood. I don't 563 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: know what I sat on in the wood. I don't 564 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: know if it was the water in the wood combined 565 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: and made like a wood baby, cor, I don't know 566 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: what it was. 567 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: How did you not see that when he stood up, 568 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: there's nothing on the bend. There was nothing on the 569 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 2: pen they played you. I was traumatized and guys, Oh my. 570 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: God, I'm emotional, guys, because it was summertime, so I 571 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: don't have a jacket or a sweater or anything to 572 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: put around me. I am just here in my white 573 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: shorts at a fashion magazine with what looks like period blood. 574 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: And oh god, I was so trying to have a question. 575 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: Have you ever worn white shorts? 576 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: Never? Never? And anyone who wears them, I look at 577 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: you with contempt in my heart. I am so sorry. 578 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: I can't wear white anything anymore. I just like white shirts, 579 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: white pants, the only thing white sneakers, that is it? 580 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: Anything else? I am too traumatized by it. It Oh 581 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: my gosh. But okay, I think what hurt me the worst, 582 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: because obviously I want to give you guys a lesson 583 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: here in my lesson can't be don't wear white shirts. 584 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: I can't be that petty. But what hurt me the 585 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: worst was that there were a lot of women right 586 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: on the floor working there, whether it was the fashion 587 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: director or the interns or the editors, and not a 588 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: single person just pulled me aside and said, hey, check 589 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: your shorts. And I have been in situations where I've 590 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: looked out for other women because you know, it's naturally, 591 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's natural, you know, and they're always. 592 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: So grateful, and no one's like, why are you looking 593 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 2: at me? 594 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 3: Right? 595 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: No one's being like, oh well, no, let me rock, 596 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: Like no, that way right, you know, a fashion statement 597 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: like no please, Like I was so hurt that nobody 598 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: looked out for me. And then naturally I had to 599 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: do the walk of shame home because I had to 600 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: ride the train home because I was going back to Brooklyn. 601 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: And here I am in these pants that I am 602 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: just terrified that everyone in the world is seeing. So 603 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: a couple of lessons here, like in truth once now 604 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: that my blood is kind of cooling down, a couple 605 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: of lessons here is, First of all, if you were 606 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: the person who sees something say something, you don't know 607 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: what's going on. And I know, sometimes like we have 608 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: bystander mentality, which is a really scary thing, right where 609 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: we see things and we don't say things, but you 610 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: really don't know how. Maybe someone just doesn't have the 611 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: awareness or in a situation like mine, it was just 612 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: a genuine accident, just an evil fate of the gods 613 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: that just did this to me. But like, either way, sorry, 614 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: getting off my eyes twitching again, like just say something right, 615 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: because you really will help someone out. Also, a lesson 616 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: that I learned then is to always carry something with you, 617 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: whether either that or be within close proximity to a 618 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: store that you can go out and run out and 619 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: buy something. I mean, at that time, I didn't have 620 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: the funds to do it, so I would definitely say 621 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: carrying a blazer or a jacket, a card again, something 622 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: that you can wrap around your waist in case you 623 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: have an accident down there. I know people are gonna 624 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: think this is controversial, but I really do believe in 625 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: also bringing extra undergarments and storing them somewhere because you 626 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: just never know, Like we never know what's going to happen, 627 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: but you always want to have something in case you 628 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: have to pivot or navigate. Imagine if I had to 629 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: report to the CEO that day I had to do 630 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: a presentation. 631 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 2: Gianna, No, I can't. If you haven't been there already, 632 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 2: it probably will happen at some point. I was there 633 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, running out on my lunch hour 634 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: to the nearest store to buy something, like its naturally happens, 635 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: it's it's it's. 636 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: Natural and it happens. And I mean, obviously I felt 637 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: a lot of shame in that moment, which you know 638 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: I should not have. But I mean, naturally, it's it's 639 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: normal to feel guilty. But what I will say is 640 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: that if you all plan in advance, don't be like 641 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: you may. If you want to wear white or any 642 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: other color in the office, just make sure you always 643 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: have a backup outfit. Okay, I certainly misunderstood the assignment. 644 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 2: Thank you for reliving that trauma. I know that was hard. 645 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to my therapist now. 646 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 2: All right, guys, that's all from us to speak. Thanks 647 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 2: so much. Thank for listening. 648 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. And look, you guys are listening to us, 649 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: which clearly means that you like me and Gianna. So 650 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: we might as well make this thing official. Okay, make 651 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: sure that you give us a five star rating and 652 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: review wherever you are listening to this podcast, but also 653 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: don't forget to follow the podcast so that you don't 654 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: miss a future episode. 655 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 2: And don't forget we also have a newsletter that you 656 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 2: can subscribe to for even more content, all those exclusive 657 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 2: behind the scenes cuts. You can find the link to 658 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: that in the show description and on my LinkedIn profile. 659 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 2: It's called you Guessed it, Let's Talk Offline. 660 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: And while you're on LinkedIn, you might as well go 661 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: on and get connected with me and g and send 662 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: us your question. We want to hear them, the burning, 663 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: the itchy, the weird stream I mean, oh goay, my 664 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: itch depending on. But we'll see information on how you 665 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: can do that is in the show description. Listen to me. 666 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: It is in the show description. Because y'all gonna be like, 667 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: we couldn't find you. Look in the show description. 668 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: All right, we'll see you back here next week. Remember 669 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: we have always got your back, so if something comes 670 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 2: up in the meantime, Let's Talk offline. I'm Gianna Prudenti. 671 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden, Stay driving. 672 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 2: Let's Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and 673 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. The show is produced by Western Sound. Our 674 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: producer is Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright. 675 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinness is our engineer, 676 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 2: and Ben Adair is the executive producer. 677 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 1: Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki 678 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: Etore We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Humple, Sarah Storm, 679 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: and Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is director of Content, 680 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: Dave Pond is head of news Production, Courtney Cook is 681 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: Head of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor 682 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: in chief of LinkedIn.