1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Hello, fellow conspiracy realists. In today's classic episode, we are 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: lucky enough to sit down with one of the smartest 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: guys we know, a guy who uh is directly responsible 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: for our day jobs. Uh. We got to speak with 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: the founder of How Stuff Works, Mr Marshall Brain. He's 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: not a doctor, which is a shame because always wanting 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: to call him Dr. Brain. He does have brain in 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: his name, though, this is this a pen name, real name. 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: Talk about nominative determinism. It is fine. It is funny though, 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: because when we sit and record this today, we are 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: on the cusp of three and this episode was recorded 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: way back in the Before times in twenty seventeen, just 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: a year after Elon Musk laid out plans to build 14 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: a colony on Mars. How's that going for you? Elon? Uh? 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I think he think he's a little too tied up 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: in that bird website to worry about any martian Um 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: colony plans. But Marshall does unpack some of the fact 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: and fiction behind the uh seeming pipe train. I absolutely 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: love Marshall's attitude towards some of these things. We get 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: into it in the episode. It's so funny to me. 21 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: We hope it is for you too. From UFOs to 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn this stuff they 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Welcome back to the show, 25 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. You are you that makes this 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know? And as always, 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: it feels great to be back in the booth with 29 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: you guys. Absolutely, And that is the sweetest thing you 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: said to me all week. That is the only nice 31 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: thing I think I've ever said in my life. You 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: do one nice thing a year. I tried to. I 33 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: tried to to make it count. And of course shout 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: out to our super producer Alex on the ones and twos. 35 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,639 Speaker 1: What a time to be alive. Right as we record this, 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 1: this is uh let's see towards the end of June, 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: and we are in a renaissance of technology. You know 38 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: what I mean? Uh inn right right now, it's so 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: weird to think that. Um. Nowadays, we are closer than 40 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: ever before to the idea of not only bringing the 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: human species to Mars, but maybe actually staying there. It's 42 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: so cool. I mean in the same way that you 43 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: know people are able to make movies and records because 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: the technology has gotten so much more affordable and accessible. 45 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: This is obviously on a higher level, but now we 46 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: have private companies like SpaceX that are developing stuff that 47 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: you know before could have only even been conceived by 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: government programs, and they're doing it with such attention to detail, 49 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: with such a kind of a niche approach, that they're 50 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: making leaps and bound strides in this kind of technology 51 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: that could do exactly what you just described, Ben. And 52 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: then last year Elon Musk, the person who heads SpaceX, 53 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: got up in front of a crowd at the sixty 54 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: seven International Astronautical Congress and he made the announcement that 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: he and SpaceX want to achieve a million person Mars colony, 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: and he outlined all of the different rockets and the 57 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: spacecraft that they are trying to design and build to 58 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: achieve this. And then someone that we know personally wrote 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: up a very long thought experiment about what this colony 60 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: might actually look like. I would say yeah, I would, 61 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: I would say, uh thorough. And it really makes you think, 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: because look, this is a huge and uh increasingly crucial 63 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: step in the expansion of the human species. And we 64 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: didn't want it just to be the three of us 65 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: digging through stuff and and telling you just our opinions. 66 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: So we went directly to one of the most intelligent 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: men we have ever met, and that is the man 68 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: who literally founded how stuff works, Marshall Brain, and we 69 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: have him here today to help us explore what a 70 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: colony on Mars would actually look like. Thank you so 71 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: much for coming today, Marshall. Hey, it's great to be here, 72 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: and it's great to talk about Mars, because that is 73 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: one of those things that, uh, was just mind blowing 74 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: when he announced it. You you, you were talking about 75 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: technology and all this stuff's happened, and this is an example, 76 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: and it's mind blowing that we could even conceive of 77 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: getting a million people onto another planet. Now, I guess 78 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: first things first, the big question that a lot of 79 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: people would have is we know that, uh, scientific progress 80 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: often gets exaggerated in the mainstream, you know, when it 81 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: becomes like a a share able article on social media. 82 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: So we wanted to ask you, you know, how, like, 83 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: is this definitely a real thing? That's going to be 84 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: the first question. A lot of our audience members have. 85 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of, um, the problems that 86 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: have kind of been swept under the rug. And that 87 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: is a little bit like Elon Musk sometimes does that. 88 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: He'll put something out there. It's seemingly just to make 89 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: us think or to imagine or to wonder, um, you know, 90 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: like he proposed this idea of digging tunnels under Los Angeles. 91 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: I don't know that that's practical, but it definitely is 92 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: a different way to think about the traffic problem in 93 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. So with Mars, I think the technology side 94 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: of it, him making the rockets and moving the people, 95 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: that is all fathomable. The thing I think people are 96 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: unsure of is once they get there, could they actually 97 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: live on a planet that's bombarded with radiation and that 98 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: has much weaker gravity, Like we just don't know if 99 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: you have a kid on a planet with gravity that's 100 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: significantly different from Earth, Like can you even have a 101 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: pregnancy in that situation? And does it work and does 102 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: the kid come out normal? And you know, there's a 103 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff like that that in this discussion, 104 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: we're just going to kind of leave under the rug 105 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: and assume that you know that it works out now, 106 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: martialist science fiction has taught me anything. We would obviously 107 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: be living in some sort of gravity controlled biodome. Well, 108 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: I don't know that we can control gravity yet. Like 109 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: I would assume that too, because that's what Star Wars says, right, 110 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: like that all this stuff is easy and straightforward. But 111 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: I I I'm not sure that humans on Mars is 112 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: even a possible thing from a long term standpoint. We 113 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: don't know. Well, let's talk about some of the problems then. 114 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you addressed gravity right up front. That's obviously 115 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: a biggie. But what are some of the other issues 116 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: that you kind of tackled in putting together this thought 117 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: experiment about what it would take to actually accomplish such 118 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: a you know, seemingly insurmountable task. Well, so Elon Musk 119 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: has said, you know, and as and as articulated pretty 120 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: clearly that the transit problem, uh is solvable, and he's 121 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: implied that the money problem is solvable. So we would 122 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: have assumed that it would be so ridiculously expensive to 123 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: move a million people to Mars that you could never 124 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: consider it. But he's he's put down a stake and said, 125 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to solve the money problem as well. I'm 126 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: going to make it cheap to get people to Mars. 127 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: So now they land there. And we don't know a 128 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: lot about this planet. We you know, we know some things, 129 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: but a million people is a lot of people. And uh, 130 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: you have the gravity thing, you have radiation, which you 131 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: could probably solve by shoving everybody underground. But then the 132 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: question is a million people living underground? Does that work? Like? 133 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: Do people function okay living underground for long periods of time? 134 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: We don't, you know, as sunlight important, I guess would 135 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: be another way to phrase that question. You have the 136 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: whole climate thing, the temperature problem, which means you've got 137 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: to enclose this whole structure. And as you start to 138 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: think about that, um just it becomes a materials problem. 139 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: You have logistics. You know, as we get into this conversation, 140 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: one of the most interesting things about it is how 141 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: do you move of all the technology to make all 142 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: the stuff that humans have today to Mars. Like that 143 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with the geophysics of it 144 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's just when you when you 145 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: think about all the stuff that we consider normal today 146 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: and that you know is everything from scotch tape to 147 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: microprocessors to move all that manufacturing capability and knowledge to Mars. 148 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: That's chapter thirteen in the book. That that one problem alone, 149 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: UH is just mind boggling to think about. Yeah, when 150 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: you start breaking that stuff down in the book and 151 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: just showing the list, I think you put a list 152 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: in there of how it's made episodes where it just 153 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: shows you all the different factories and things you and 154 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: different resources you would need to make structure, right, I 155 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: mean even get that in place in such a way 156 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: where you could have factories that could produce that kind 157 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: of stuff and the weight of the stuff you need 158 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: to build a factory. And I think there's a I 159 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: think there's a a brilliant point here. Uh. One of 160 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: the one of the headings for that chapter is how 161 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: will we make chips on Mars or pharmaceuticals medical devices? Uh? 162 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: In will Mars be able to be a viable backup 163 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: plan for humanity? It reminds me in a way of 164 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: that old time travel question where people say, you know, 165 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: I would love to travel back in time to you know, 166 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: the thirteen hundreds, and I would be like, as this 167 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: um intellectual giant and this DEMI God, But the average 168 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: person does not have the knowledge, much less the means 169 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: to create so many of these common things, you know, 170 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: probably including to your early example Marshall Scotch tape. So yeah, 171 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: so how would we how like, how would wets an 172 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: Old's point, uh, make this infrastructure? And it would almost 173 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: would it almost certainly have to be something where we 174 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: severely limit the kind of products that we would have. 175 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: Would this be like the the effect of living on 176 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: a remote island times of a billion. That's a great question, 177 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: and and that's one of the things that makes it 178 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: such a great thought experiment is you know, Elon Musk 179 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: has said, Okay, I can get the people there, and 180 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: I can get them there cheap enough for us to 181 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: imagine it. But as soon as you open your mind 182 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: to well what are they going to do once they land? 183 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: And the desert island thing is really a funny way 184 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: to think about it, then the number of questions is gigantic, 185 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of questions you have to start going through. 186 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: So you mentioned this, this notion that Mars could be 187 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: a backup plan for humanity, meaning that we have a 188 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: second civilization that's on a different planet. So if planet 189 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: Earth gets struck by an asteroid, or it gets lown 190 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: up by nukes, or some other catastrophe happens, there's a 191 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: whole another instantiation of humanity somewhere else that could carry 192 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: on without Earth anymore. And that makes you wonder, what 193 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: could you take everything that's happening on Earth today and 194 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: and actually bring it up like booted up on another planet. 195 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: And if you if you drill down into it, that 196 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: just it seems incredibly difficult. It's imaginable, but it definitely 197 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: would require a huge amount of thought and logistics and training. 198 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: I like I came up with a rough estimate that 199 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: you might have to have two thousand people trained in 200 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: all these different disciplines to make Scotch tape and to 201 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: make aluminum oil, and to make chips and to make fires, 202 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: and like, there's just all these things we make that 203 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: are all so specialized. The amount of knowledge you'd have 204 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: to send there and skill and practice and stuff, it's 205 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: just it's fascinating to think about it, especially when you 206 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: think that you can't you can't have a wood making 207 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: facility that just procures would or something like that. It's 208 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: something as simple as that, you know you have to 209 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: manufacture a lot of these different elements essentially that then 210 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: go into the product. Yeah, we take carbon really for 211 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: granted planet. Yeah, and would is a great example because 212 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: you aren't gonna have any wood for like thirty years 213 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: if you want real wood, you know, because it takes 214 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: time for the tree to grow. Well, thankfully i Kea 215 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: has those flat packs, which surely would and so one 216 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: of these landers. Um no, but seriously, like who's gonna 217 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: build this stuff? Like? Is it like this is a 218 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: volunteer situation. I mean, obviously this is part of the 219 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: thoughts perament, is the fact that this stuff it hasn't 220 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: been discussed and it's also amorphous at this point. But 221 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: you sort of lay out and make a case for 222 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: how will people contribute once they get there? Can you 223 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that? So if you're gonna 224 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: if you're going to create a complete backup of human 225 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: activity on Mars, if you're going to try to do that, 226 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: then uh, you mentioned chip making as an example. Chip 227 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: making is probably the most advanced thing humans are doing 228 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: right now. I guess we could argue there's other you know, 229 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: there's competitors, but chip making is really hard at the 230 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: at the scale we're doing it at, and at the 231 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: precision we're doing it at. So if you wanted to 232 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: bring that whole industry up on Mars, you start, you know, 233 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: you asked about what are the roles of different people, Well, 234 00:14:53,920 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: there is a crazy amount of really esoteric expertise east 235 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: that would have to be trained into the passengers that 236 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: go to Mars so that they know how to land 237 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: on the planet, build the different parts of the chip 238 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: making you know activity, get it all up running, uh 239 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: like have it produced its first product, and then they 240 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: would have to start moving it forward on the research 241 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: side like we do on Earth as well, or they're 242 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: going to get behind very quickly. So yeah, when you 243 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: think about the roles people would have, um, you know, 244 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: like one of the one of the little riffs in 245 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: chapter thirteen is that there are people on this planet 246 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: inside of Apple and Intel and other chip making companies 247 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: that their whole specialty might be, you know, the floating 248 00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: point multiplier of a CPU or the branch prediction part 249 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: of the CPU, or you know these really esoteric memory 250 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: features of a CPU or something. There's like thousands of 251 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: those little specialties just to make CPUs and that doesn't 252 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: have to do with the manufacture of it. That just 253 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: has to do with a layout and design of it 254 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: and the improvement of it. So you're talking hundreds of 255 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: thousands of people who know such amazingly esoteric things so 256 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: that all this stuff can actually start working on Mars. 257 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: And then you can't just send one of them, right 258 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: because what if that guy gets hit by a meteor 259 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: or is ship crashes on landing or so you have 260 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: to send enough redundancy, and then you have to send 261 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: an education system so that you can train up new 262 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: people so when those people die, they're replaced. And just 263 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: it's like this huge rabbit hole if you actually start 264 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: to think about what Elon Musk is proposing, what are 265 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: you incentivized seing these people to get the best in 266 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: the brightest? Are we talking about like only the super 267 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: elite are even going to be considered for this? Like 268 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,239 Speaker 1: like yeah, I mean, is it like Australia and a 269 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: prison colony. Maybe they're the first round that go and 270 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: they do all the work and then we ship them 271 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: back to the States. It's a great question, though, I 272 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: just wonder. I mean, there's us Like you said, it's 273 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: like each question begets like fifty other questions and that's 274 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: that's why it's so much fun to talk about. But no, 275 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: but really, like, I mean, who, how do you incentivize 276 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: people that even have these skill sets to go like 277 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: on this dangerous, you know, dicey expedition. I would say 278 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: being part of history is a huge argument, right, being 279 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: on the the backup planet that might be an incentive, 280 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: I think if we're just honest about it. And one 281 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: of the things that the book starts with is that 282 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: there are like pick a number, two billion, three billion, 283 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: four billion people on planet Earth who are living in misery, 284 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: Like just to put that succinctly, they are getting the 285 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: raw end of the economic deal on this planet. Like 286 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: there's this fun statistic of the people on planet Earth 287 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: make less than ten dollars a day that like, that's 288 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: impossible to imagine, but nonetheless that's a fact. And there 289 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: are lots of people, like billions who make less than 290 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,479 Speaker 1: five dollars a day, and they're a billion that make 291 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: less than two dollars a day. There are plenty of 292 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: people whose lives would be radically like a hundred times 293 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: better if they had the opportunity to do something like this. 294 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: They don't necessarily have anything right now. But if they 295 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: could be trained and brought up to speed and then 296 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: sent to a place like Mars, the incentives for them 297 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: are far different from the incentives that you know, someone 298 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: living in America or Germany or Canada might have. That 299 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: it's a whole different world for them. So then it 300 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: leads us to a really big question in um. For us, 301 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: the three of us in the studio, for many of 302 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: you listening, not all of you, we are familiar with 303 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: a capitalist economic system, especially if you live in the West, 304 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: and one of the huge questions asked are proposed by you, 305 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,479 Speaker 1: and here is why not export the American economic system 306 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: to Mars. And we're going to get to that right 307 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: after a quick word from our sponsor, and we're back. 308 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: We have returned not from Mars, but from an ad break, 309 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: not from Mars. Yet we left on one of the 310 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: biggest questions and a singular thing explored in the book, 311 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: which is not not just the technology, but beyond the technology. Um. 312 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: You know, you could argue that one of the most 313 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: intangible and important technologies that humanity has evolved, our socioeconomic 314 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: syste them right. So one of the questions is if 315 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: we're making a backup planet. Not only what should we 316 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: bring from Earth, but are there improvements or are their 317 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: superior approaches that we would want to institute on this 318 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: you know, Earth two point oh, or do we just 319 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: think about it in a completely new light right and 320 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: m The the socio economic part of it is absolutely 321 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: fascinating to think about because there are a number of 322 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: different systems that are like in place on planet Earth. 323 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: But if we look across the whole planet at the 324 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 1: effects those systems are having on people, we have not 325 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: figured out the socioeconomic part to any degree on planet 326 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: Earth yet. So before the break, there was this fund 327 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: statistic that of the planet makes less than ten dollars 328 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: a so you know, that would be less than dollars 329 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: a year, and of the planet would be something like 330 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: five five and a half billion people, maybe billions and 331 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: billions of people are really getting shafted by the economic 332 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: systems that we're using today. So it forces us to ask, 333 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: if we're going to create this whole new colony, what 334 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: kind of economic system do we want to put there? 335 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: And if we're starting with a blank sheet of paper, 336 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: which we are, why not come up with something much 337 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: much much better for everyone who's going to live on 338 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: that planet. Why don't we come up with a set 339 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: of goals for the whole society and then figure out 340 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: how to make an economic system that delivers on those goals. 341 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: And ay, those goals are easy to figure out, Like 342 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: all we have to do is think about what we 343 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: want in our own lives and be the the goals 344 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: that we set, we want them to apply to everyone. 345 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: We like, when we think about put bringing up this 346 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: whole new thing on on Mars, we expect it to 347 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: be cool and shiny and new and wonderful, you know, 348 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: kind of the word utopia's way overused. We would like 349 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: it to be good for the people who go there. 350 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: And we know from looking at Earth that if we 351 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: take what we're doing on Earth now, it's gonna be 352 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: just as bad on Mars. So how do we conceive 353 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: of a new economic system? How do we think about that? 354 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: And there's a number of chapters in the book that 355 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: tries to lay out this whole new economic way of 356 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: thinking that benefits everyone and that delivers on all the 357 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: goals we would have for a Martian society, things like 358 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: everybody gets food, and everybody gets clean water, and everybody 359 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: gets housing and everybody gets healthcare. I mean, those are 360 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: so obvious that they don't even bear you know, thought, really, 361 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: except that on planet Earth, billions and billions of people 362 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: don't even have those essentials. It's like, it's crazy when 363 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: you think about Earth and then you think, well, what 364 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: what will we do to make it better on Mars? 365 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: You know, I had kind of a freudy and listening 366 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: arret as a a second ago when you said a Martian society, 367 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: I heard Marxist society. And I can't help but think 368 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: that that plays into this a little bit. I mean, 369 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like just the idea of 370 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: putting everyone on equal playing field, making where everyone works 371 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: together towards a common goal. And this is a system 372 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 1: that we've seen, you know, fail time and again. How 373 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: do you feel like it would be I'm not saying 374 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: this is straight up communism, but it has the feel 375 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: of that in certain ways. How do you feel like 376 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: that would work from a you know, setting up a 377 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: brand new society when it hasn't worked, you know, in 378 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: in the planet we have Well, so the first thing 379 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: I think we could ask is does the system have 380 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: now worked? Like we like to say that it works, 381 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: but if we were to really look at it and 382 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: no things like that. There's a billion people living in slums, 383 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: and there's billions of people who don't have any real 384 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: access to modern health care and are making less than 385 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: ten dollars a day, and you know, and we look 386 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: at that. Is that success? Like I you could argue 387 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 1: that it is radically successful for some of us, Like 388 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: if you happen to have a good job in a 389 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: developed country, you're doing great, but you're like five percent 390 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: of the planet or something. So it's working great for 391 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: five percent of the planet and it's working less and 392 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: less great for the other Is that success? But aren't 393 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: those people that are successful in our economics system the 394 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,719 Speaker 1: one that would be more likely to want to escape 395 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: and live in a utopian, you know, society and kind 396 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: of own everything well after everything's been built. That's kind 397 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: of what I'm hearing, Like, let's let's send the poor 398 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: people there to build everything radiation poisoning, right, and then 399 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: like you know, we go and live on our Martian villas. 400 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: I don't know that's maybe being negative, but that's one 401 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: thing I'd like to One thing I'd like to examine here, Marshall, 402 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: is um I think there's a really strong point to 403 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: the book's approach, where it is grounding the thought experiment 404 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: in current statistics from international institutions to current socio economic practices. Noel, 405 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: I'm really interested in what you brought up about the 406 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: idea of Marxism as we as we know, international economists 407 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: and people who study international affairs have routinely given backhanded, 408 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: uh like backhanded compliments to the American system. They've called 409 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: it the least worst of all disasters. But I mean, 410 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: and uh, the thing that you said, like, why what 411 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: where would something like this succeed rather than fail? First, 412 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: it seems like there's a smaller sample size if it's 413 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: a million people and they're going to be pre selected 414 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: to some sort of rubric or through some sort of rubric. 415 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: But the question I would ask you, Marshall, is how 416 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: would you see a I interacting in this or and 417 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: to what degree? If so? So, if we're gonna design 418 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: a society from scratch, we would be silly not to 419 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: take AI into account in designing that whole system. So 420 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: the problem we're facing in America right now, or a 421 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: problem economically, is that when AI comes along, it is 422 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: increasingly displacing people from their jobs and then those people 423 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: really don't have anywhere to go. And and a great 424 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: example of that that's that's coming in the near term 425 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: is is truck drivers. Like we can pretty much say 426 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: that in X years, where X might be ten or 427 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: it might be twenty, but it probably isn't more than twenty. 428 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: In X years, all the truck drivers are going to 429 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: get bounced out of their jobs by AI, by self 430 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: driving trucks. And that's one point six million jobs just 431 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: for truck drivers of eighteen wheeler kind of trucks. That 432 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: doesn't count all the FedEx trucks and the UPS trucks 433 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,959 Speaker 1: and all the taxis and all the other jobs. Just 434 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: the big rig truck drivers is one point six million people. 435 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: They're gonna get bounced out of their jobs and then 436 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: they're gonna do what like that. That is the problem 437 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: our economy has with AI is that it displaces people 438 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: from jobs and then their destitute like the it's gonna 439 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: be very hard for them to find new jobs. And 440 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: that's going to get worse and worse and worse as 441 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: AI accelerate. So why don't we design an economy where 442 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: that where AI is a good thing rather than a 443 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: bad thing, And why don't we apply it everywhere we can, 444 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: from healthcare to education to truck driving, to apply it everywhere, 445 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 1: and then as it frees up more and more people, 446 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 1: we take advantage of that and spread all that automation, 447 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: all the advantages and wealth from it out to everyone, 448 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: rather than letting it concentrate as it is right now 449 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: in an increasingly small slice of humanity. Like they're sometimes 450 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: called the one percent, they're sometimes called the elite, whatever 451 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: you want to call the the percent of humanity that's 452 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: taking all these gains right now, why don't we design 453 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: an economy that spreads it out to everybody instead of 454 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: concentrating it. And that that's a big part of the 455 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: underpinning of the book's thought process is how do we 456 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: make this planet, this new planet, how do we make 457 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: it benefit everyone instead of having most of the people 458 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: being destitute and then some being okay, in this tiny 459 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: group being you know, ultra wealthy, which is what the 460 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: Earth is. Like, Yeah, we know we we have in 461 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: our society benevolent billionaires. They do exist, But you wouldn't 462 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: it require that, wouldn't it require wealthy people to be 463 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: willing to spread that out? And like participate in a 464 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: system where everyone is benefited equally, as opposed to being 465 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: in the position they're used to being in, which is 466 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: kind of at the top of the mountain. I think 467 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: we have to create an economy that automatically you like, 468 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: that is structurally designed so that everyone benefits from the economy, 469 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: instead of an economy that is what we're experiencing right now, 470 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: which is a very small number of winners takes pretty 471 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: much everything. Was this really weird statistic that came out 472 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year where eight human beings 473 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: on Earth own as much wealth as the whole bottom 474 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: half of humanity, So eight own as much wealth as 475 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: three point seven billion people. And that is happening because 476 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: that's how today's economy on Earth is structured, that's how 477 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: the rules are written, that's how it's all designed to 478 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: work that way. Well, what if you do it on 479 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: Mars in a completely different way, Like why not make 480 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: a different set of rules that have much much better outcomes? 481 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: And the advantage of Mars is that gives you a 482 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: blank slate. You don't have to force existing billionaires out 483 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: of the way to make it happen. You just make 484 00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: it happen. Organically by designing it that way from the start. Yeah. 485 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: In chapter fifteen of the of the book, Uh, you 486 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: examine the political system or possibilities for a Martian political system, 487 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: and one of the one of the first when the 488 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: first proposals that you explore is the concept of the 489 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: direct vote. You know, and just for all our listeners 490 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: who are outside of the US, the way the system 491 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: would work here in the US is that the average 492 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: voter votes for a representative. Still at this point human 493 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: who or you know, but yeah, yeah, I mean it's 494 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: a great point. But you know, the big difference here 495 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: is that, um, the average voter votes for a representative 496 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: who then in theory, pursues the interest of the forces 497 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: they represent, which you know, the big criticism is that 498 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: in practice the forces they represent tend not to be 499 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: the voters who elected them. Yes, that is one big problem. 500 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: And we know this. That the folks get elected, they 501 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: go to Washington, then they start receiving large amounts of 502 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: money from rich people in a wide variety of ways, 503 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: and then they start doing what the rich people want 504 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: them to do. So the voice of the people basically 505 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: is meaningless now, uh, except in those rare cases where 506 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: the voices of people happens to intersect with what the 507 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: rich want to happen. And you know, if we want 508 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: to make this topical to today's news, we kind of 509 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: see this with the whole healthcare thing that's coming down, 510 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: where tens of millions of people are gonna lose access 511 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: to healthcare coverage. Like, I don't think normal rank and 512 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: file folk, which is us most everybody else, would want 513 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: that to happen in But for whatever reason, the wealthy 514 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: people want that to happen. And since they are pulling 515 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: the strings there, they're ramming that through the House and 516 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: then the Senate. Uh. And the president who we elected, 517 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: who said he would never do this, like he would 518 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: never modify Medicare or Medicaid and abandon all these working 519 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: class people, has totally flipped and is now on the 520 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: side of really really hurting working class people. So he 521 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: promised one thing to get elected, and he's not delivering 522 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: on that promise at all. That is that is the 523 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: problem with electing human beings to political positions. It really 524 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: uh forces you to think about how to get humans 525 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: out of politics, representative humans, like like we're experiencing in 526 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: the United States right now. I feel like we're really 527 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: getting to the point we've been beating around this whole time, 528 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: is what's the government going to be on Mars. Who's 529 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: gonna be running it? Well, I just have to introduct 530 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: really one of the things, Marshal, that you propose uh 531 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: in here, which isn't necessarily the government, but I can 532 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: or what would be a government, but I can see 533 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: it functioning somewhat in that way. I think we're talking 534 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: about the same. It's the software that you talk about 535 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: that will be constantly monitoring all of the inhabitants of 536 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: the colony, all the colonists, and it's it will distribute 537 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: work based on the needs of the colony to these colonists. 538 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: And it seems like this really highly entirely government, right. Well, 539 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: in a way, yeah, in a way, it is right. 540 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's also resource allocation because 541 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: it's looking at what the colony needs and here's all 542 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: of the work I need to get that done at 543 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: its best though, isn't that what the government's kind of 544 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,720 Speaker 1: supposed to do? Kind of? But so so, ultimately, Marshall, 545 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,479 Speaker 1: I just want to talk to you about the way 546 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: you would see that functioning, and mostly the problems that 547 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: you see arising from that system. So if you think 548 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: about how this Mars colony could be structured and how 549 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: it could be organized, and how you could uh spread 550 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: the benefits of the economy around everyone. Uh. In the book, 551 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: it starts with the premise of food, like how could 552 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: the colony produce its own food? And the way we 553 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: do that in America today is a real hodgepodge. Like 554 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: a person randomly seemingly decides that he or she wants 555 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: to be a farmer and grows some food, and then 556 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: it goes into this very odd commodity marketplace where prices 557 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: can fluctuate wildly depending on this thing we call supply 558 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: and demand. And then it goes into a you know, 559 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: a whole giant corps apparatus that distributes you know, that 560 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: turns raw food products into manufactured food products a lot 561 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: of the times, and then it gets distributed through these 562 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: other things and and it's all hodgepodge. It's all uh, 563 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: completely random. There's a hundred, like a million places for 564 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: people to extract money out of that system and concentrate it. 565 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: And and so then you think, well, what is government 566 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: supposed to do? Like how how is government supposed to 567 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: behave in that system or in a better system. And 568 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: if you think about food down at the bottom, you 569 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: you need people to do certain tasks to make the 570 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: food available so that we can consume it. And fifty 571 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: years from now that will all be done with robots. 572 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: But right now we don't have robots to do certain 573 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: parts of the problem, so we use human beings to 574 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: do those parts. And the system that's proposed in the 575 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: book is we just let you know, a piece of 576 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: software help people to find the things that need to 577 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: get done based on their preferences of what they would 578 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: prefer to be doing, and it manages the whole allocation 579 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 1: of those tasks and the production of all the things 580 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: that the colony needs. That is not unlike the system 581 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: that you might use on well, like on the International 582 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: Space Station right now at a tiny scale, or on 583 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: an aircraft carrier at a bigger scale, or on a 584 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: you know, a like an Antarctic base or anything else. Like, 585 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: we're just taking it up to the million person level 586 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: so that everybody gets the benefits of the work that 587 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: they input into the system. That's the basic idea. Okay, yes, 588 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: so would this be a situation then where where for instance, 589 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: Matt or Noel as Mars colonists have a profile of 590 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 1: some sort a database just about them that list their 591 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: their skills, their expertise, UM, there are other concurrent projects 592 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: or past experience, and then based on the needs of 593 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: the of the overall system, uh, they're they're assigned a 594 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: particular role that would be fluid depending on the state 595 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: of those needs. Well, there's a lot of different aspects 596 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: to it. So what the stuff you're talking about that's important. 597 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: Then there's like how do you guys prefer to work. 598 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: Do you prefer to work at night? Do you prefer 599 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: to work a little bit every day? Or would you 600 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: prefer to work for a month and then have a 601 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: month off? You know, there's like what kind of conditions 602 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: do you prefer working in? There's what are you really 603 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: good at? Um and what really brings you joy when 604 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: you do it? Like like let's say you have a 605 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: system and you can talk to it, and you could say, well, 606 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, I like doing podcasts, but I also I 607 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: don't know, pick something I also like preparing engines or 608 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: you pick something so I would say farming repairing engines. Okay, 609 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: So you know, if if we had a system that 610 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: that understood all of that, it could customize a set 611 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,359 Speaker 1: of tasks for you that might be much better than 612 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 1: the mix of tasks you're having right now. And if 613 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: you're one of the classic millennials who went to college 614 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: but then couldn't find a job and now you're working 615 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: in a coffee shop and that seems like a totally 616 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: uh useless way to use your time, the system can 617 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: prevent that kind of just amazing waste from happening, because, 618 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, the the problem that a lot of millennials 619 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: have right now is either they don't have a job 620 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: Millennial unemployment is way higher than average unemployment, or if 621 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: they do have a job, it is a job they 622 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: have no desire to be doing because it's unrelated to 623 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: anything they've been trained for. So again, and we look 624 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: at the American system and we think, well, this is okay, 625 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: But as soon as you look at it with any 626 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: kind of uh, you know, critical thinking, it really isn't 627 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: good at all. For probably a majority of the people 628 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,720 Speaker 1: they're in. They're in positions that they would never choose 629 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: to be doing strictly because they have to do something 630 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: to make money, or they're unemployed. So the system can 631 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 1: just ring all of that inefficiency out and and give 632 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: everybody a much better mix of tasks that are matched 633 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: to their skills and their preferences and their dreams, their 634 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: passions whatever. Yeah, and this is this point is perhaps 635 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: one of the points that would be uh controversial for 636 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: some audience members. It reminds me of the arguments people 637 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: used to make about autonomous vehicles, which you know candidly 638 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: are going to be the rule rather than the exception 639 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,279 Speaker 1: within our lifetimes in many parts of the world. And 640 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: and that argument that some critics would make is they 641 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: would say, well, this is removing my own autonomy or 642 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: my own personal freedom. And I really appreciate how, you know, 643 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: how you took steps to emphasize that this would be 644 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: not a soulless uh putting a person into a lot 645 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: or a box for a given amount of time, but 646 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: it would it would engage with their preferences too. So 647 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: I guess for our members of the audience who would say, 648 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: you know, well that I am making my own human decisions. Uh, 649 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not gonna let a piece of software 650 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: tell me what to do, how would you respond to, 651 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: uh to those members of the audience, Well, the flip 652 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: it responses, don't go to Mars. You don't want to 653 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:33,320 Speaker 1: live that way. Uh. You know, in anything, no matter 654 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: what we create, there's gonna be people who don't like it, 655 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: and they're going to complain at whatever volume they choose 656 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: to complain at. The nice thing about Mars. Uh, you know, 657 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: if we went back ten minutes, someone mentioned this is 658 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: that there's a very strong filter possible on who gets 659 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: to go to be in the Martian colony. And you know, 660 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: a selection process, us, training, vetting, whatever you want to 661 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: call it, and everyone gets housing and food and clothing 662 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: and healthcare, then off you go. And if you're not 663 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: down with that, like if you think that half the 664 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 1: people on Mars shouldn't get healthcare, chances are we don't 665 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: want you on Mars. Like, why would we want to 666 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: create a society where half the people don't get healthcare? 667 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 1: That's that's insanity really, But there are a lot of 668 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: people who believe that. So, I mean most of the 669 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: Senate that's a representative seems to believe it right now. 670 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: As crazy as that is, So we just choose people 671 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: who are aligned with this way of thinking. Uh, As 672 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: we select the people who go to to the Mars colony. Okay, 673 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: so this brings us to the most important, in my opinion, 674 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,760 Speaker 1: question that you pose in this entire thought experiment, Marshal, 675 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: and that is what do we with all the assholes 676 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: on Mars? And we're going to get to that right 677 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: after a quick word from our sponsor. Welcome back to 678 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: the show everyone. We are still here with Marshall brain 679 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 1: talking about colonizing Mars, right, and Matt raised a very 680 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: interesting question at the end of the break, what do 681 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: we do with all the assholes on Mars um and 682 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: which which leads me to something I was thinking about 683 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: bringing up before the break, but I think it works 684 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 1: perfectly here. Marshall, we're talking about this sort of software 685 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: AI kind of task master governing system. I guess, for 686 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: lack of a better term, that that then needs to 687 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: be an acronym. By the way, it's an efficiency system. 688 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: Big fan of acronyms. But if it knows all of 689 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: this stuff about us, it assigns us these tasks, it 690 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: knows our strengths, it knows our weaknesses, does it not 691 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,839 Speaker 1: also record black marks against us and potentially mark us 692 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: as undesirable elements over time? As we interact and engage, 693 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: you know, with this new society if you know, to 694 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: the point of what happens to all the jerks is 695 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: that the machine that filters them out and sends them 696 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: to work in the minds like what are we talking here? 697 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: So I don't know about you, but I personally, I'm 698 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 1: great with living with people who are nice, and I'm 699 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: great with people who are neutrals. That is, they're just 700 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: trying to get on with their lives and and make 701 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: things happen. But then there's this group of people who 702 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:42,319 Speaker 1: actively works to make other people miserable. Those I've I've 703 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: just applied the colloquial word assholes to them. And I 704 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: think society is much much better if we can control, 705 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: preferably eliminate asshole behavior, because it does make everybody miserable. 706 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 1: And and we could sit here and we could list 707 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: off a bunch of asshole things that we experience pretty 708 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 1: regularly today that we would like to eradicate. On Mars, 709 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 1: I'll just pick one simple one, like racism. What is 710 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: the point of that? Why? So, why would we want 711 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: to have a group of people who were actively trying 712 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: to oppose or to make other people miserable? Like why 713 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,839 Speaker 1: what benefit does that have for the society for you know, 714 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: all the people living in that society when they're actively 715 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: working to make the lives of others miserable. I think 716 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 1: a big part of the Mars colony of any kind 717 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: of perfected human society would be to recognize those behaviors 718 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: that make people miserable and then do everything possible to 719 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: eradicate them. That's one of my questions, just to jump 720 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: in here, that I would I think a lot of 721 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: people would have on their mind. Is is there a 722 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: degree of uh, to put to a coin of phrase, 723 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: is there a degree of assholary here? You know? Because 724 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: there are people who are an inconvenience or in considerate 725 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,879 Speaker 1: in daily life. Uh, And then there are people who 726 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: are clear and present dangers, perhaps like a chronic a 727 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: chronic drug abuser who operates heavy machinery. You know what 728 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 1: I mean. Uh? So, what's what's the scale here? I 729 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: guess is the question? Man? Who gets to make the list? Oh? Right? 730 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: Both good questions. So there is a spectrum of assholary 731 00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: you want to say it that way, right? And you 732 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: you mentioned one like people who are intoxicated who are 733 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: operating heavy machinery and are are endangering people's lives. We 734 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: can throw murderers and robbers and rapists. You know, they're 735 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 1: at one end of the scale. We all get that 736 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: they're a problem, and we already have systems that try 737 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: to contain and deal with that end of the spectrum. 738 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: That's the police force, the court, the prison system. You 739 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: know that all. Uh, it's pretty well understood. Then there's 740 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: stuff in the middle. Uh. And then there's the really 741 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: lightweight stuff at the other end of the spectrum. So 742 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: if someone gets into the line at the grocery store 743 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: that clearly says ten items are less and they dropped 744 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: fifty items on the conveyor belt. Yo, that is a 745 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: level of asshol Arry. It's far different from murdering someone. 746 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: But it this is yaw, we are getting very dangerously 747 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: into like, Larry, But I'm learning a lot about you 748 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: right out. Okay, Look, sometimes I do twelve. I try. 749 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes I look at my basket and like, visually, visually 750 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 1: it looks like ten. But then as I'm placing them, oh, man, 751 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,520 Speaker 1: but you know what, they don't care. They don't care. Yeah, 752 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: well someone should the scientist ten. I'm sorry. I could 753 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: see I could see even in the microcosm of our 754 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 1: own society. How this is already how how there are 755 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: points of contention, And I think that's an excellent point 756 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,240 Speaker 1: um that that you're making here, Marshall, is that whether 757 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 1: or not their degrees of um conflicts creating behaviors or 758 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:43,319 Speaker 1: or or misery causing behaviors, they they still have an 759 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: appreciable impact over time. So this is the this is 760 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: the very light example, but humorously egregious. Someone goes into 761 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,399 Speaker 1: they go to the local Mars safe way and they get, uh, 762 00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 1: they see the science as ten things and then let's 763 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,760 Speaker 1: say they get uh, fifty noodle packs and they argue 764 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,440 Speaker 1: that it's one thing because they're all the same noodles. Whatever. 765 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,720 Speaker 1: What if they rubber banded together at a giant bundle 766 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: and then nuts, I mean if it's one upc anyway, Yeah, yeah, sorry, 767 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,680 Speaker 1: we don't mean to derail. So so what happens in 768 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: that situation. Well, so one thing that's proposed, uh in 769 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 1: the book is that everybody in the society has the 770 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,720 Speaker 1: ability to report what they believe to be asshole behaviors. 771 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,799 Speaker 1: So the book goes so far as to suggest, like 772 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: what if everybody wore a body camera and now we 773 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,399 Speaker 1: have this record of stuff that's happening in society all 774 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 1: the time. And let's pick something a slightly less trivial 775 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:54,040 Speaker 1: than the ten items. Let's um, let's you know, one 776 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: of the videos I linked to in the book is 777 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: the one where the woman walks around New York City. 778 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,280 Speaker 1: She's just walking around, living her life. And the number 779 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,600 Speaker 1: of people who can't call her or to reach out 780 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,400 Speaker 1: to her a toucher, or who follow one ft behind 781 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:15,200 Speaker 1: her and you know, stalking her, and just the amount 782 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:18,640 Speaker 1: of harassment she receives just walking around as a normal 783 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: human being in New York. It's on camera, and it's 784 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,359 Speaker 1: easy to see that it's asshole behavior. And if all 785 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,879 Speaker 1: of that stuff can be picked up, documented, and then 786 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,760 Speaker 1: everybody who's doing it gets sanctioned for it, in the book, 787 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,799 Speaker 1: it proposes that we call him out and retrain them 788 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,680 Speaker 1: in you know, in that case, in uh, you know, 789 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: some kind of literacy about social etiquette. Then all of 790 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,160 Speaker 1: that behavior is gone, and she and every other woman 791 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 1: can walk around New York City without that happening anymore. 792 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: You know. That's the kind of thing that the book 793 00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: is proposing, is that we just create a system so 794 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: that this crap that happens to normal people as they're 795 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,400 Speaker 1: living their lives gets documented and the people who are 796 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 1: doing it gets shut down and and we eliminate this 797 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:19,520 Speaker 1: huge amount of you know, societal junk and misery from 798 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:24,239 Speaker 1: the Mars colony. So this brings us to anonymity is 799 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,880 Speaker 1: we have discussed on this show on several occasions about 800 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 1: how personal privacy is increasingly becoming a thing of the 801 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: past or a privilege, you know, for the elite, a 802 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: new currency if you will. Yes, Ben has the best 803 00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,600 Speaker 1: ideas on this, and I'm that don't mean to jump 804 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: on those, but um, in the thought experiment, it goes 805 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,480 Speaker 1: into this same AI, which is keeping track of the 806 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,440 Speaker 1: work you're doing and that you need to do, is 807 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: also tracking where you are at all times, and coupled 808 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,719 Speaker 1: with the proposed body cameras, anything that goes wrong can 809 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,560 Speaker 1: be proven immediately. This is where person A is and 810 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: where person B is. Person A stopped breathing, person B 811 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,279 Speaker 1: is at fault to that that kind of scenario. But 812 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,959 Speaker 1: I know that thought of being constantly tracked and being 813 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,120 Speaker 1: constantly watched or watching UH is terrifying to a lot 814 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 1: of people listening and is not something they would want 815 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,960 Speaker 1: to be a part of Why could it be a 816 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,920 Speaker 1: a really good thing? I'll take it even not a 817 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,399 Speaker 1: less diplomatic route. I mean to me, when I first 818 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: read some of this stuff, it struck me as like 819 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,120 Speaker 1: the plot of like every dystopian sci fi book I 820 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,640 Speaker 1: read in high school. I mean, it has that sense. 821 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,120 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering, like, how is this better? How is 822 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:42,799 Speaker 1: this not that? And how would it not be abused? Right? So, 823 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,640 Speaker 1: I think one thing to understand is that we're going 824 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,640 Speaker 1: down this path already. You know, if we went back 825 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,759 Speaker 1: to the seventeen hundreds, we had an aonymity and there 826 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,680 Speaker 1: was no way for anybody really to get rid of it. 827 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:07,040 Speaker 1: But today we're well past the halfway point. You know, 828 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 1: like every everything I charge on my credit card is tracked, 829 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:15,800 Speaker 1: every camera I walk past looks at me, my cell 830 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:19,719 Speaker 1: phone tracks every step I take. Already, you know, like 831 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 1: all this stuff is happening, and it's just happening in degrees. 832 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,799 Speaker 1: So why don't we just fast forward and take it 833 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,920 Speaker 1: to its limit? You know where it's going to end 834 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,280 Speaker 1: up anyway, And then ask, and now that everyone has 835 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,400 Speaker 1: no anonymity, what are the advantages of that? And the 836 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 1: advantage is that you can radically reduce crime, and any 837 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,000 Speaker 1: crime that does occur, you can instantly know who did it. 838 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,320 Speaker 1: There's no more of this detective that has to go around. 839 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,440 Speaker 1: And you know, it takes a whole hour for the 840 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,880 Speaker 1: show to figure out what the the murderer's identity was. 841 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 1: You know, we watched these cops shows on television. It 842 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,719 Speaker 1: takes days weeks to solve these crimes. Well, you down 843 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,680 Speaker 1: know the perpetrator instantly, and you can get all those 844 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 1: criminals out of society so that again, the rest of 845 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,600 Speaker 1: us can live our lives without the misery that they're causing. 846 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:24,680 Speaker 1: I don't I don't think any of us has anonymity anymore. 847 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,160 Speaker 1: There's a patina that makes us think, you know, and 848 00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,960 Speaker 1: there are places where we can gain it, but like, 849 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: why not just embrace it and take advantage of every 850 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 1: benefit that it has to offer if we remove anonymity 851 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,000 Speaker 1: from the equation. I think that's a really I think 852 00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:48,839 Speaker 1: that's a really fascinating point because you know, we're we're 853 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:54,160 Speaker 1: almost looking at two different paths for um, you know, 854 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,720 Speaker 1: the removal of privacy currently in the in the system 855 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,000 Speaker 1: we've mentioned the terrest real system. Uh, we have the 856 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:08,320 Speaker 1: removal of privacy, largely for uh corporate interest and largely 857 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:13,959 Speaker 1: for state control. There's not very much compelling evidence that 858 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:19,920 Speaker 1: uh illegal wire tapping activities have actually stopped, for instance, 859 00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,760 Speaker 1: the great boogeyman of our time terrorism. But there's pretty 860 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,120 Speaker 1: compelling evidence rather that this information has been sold at 861 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,879 Speaker 1: a profit right and the people generating the information don't 862 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: profit from it. Um. I I would like that just 863 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,440 Speaker 1: add on, uh, just the dovetail what you said marshall. Um. 864 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: We have to remember as well that this is not Earth. 865 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 1: People can't walk outside and live off the land by 866 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:50,440 Speaker 1: a coast somewhere, you know. Uh. So so anonymity I 867 00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 1: think UH could be disadvantageous in a situation where disasters 868 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,480 Speaker 1: are much more likely. And if one thing goes wrong 869 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:03,799 Speaker 1: with this very delicate mobile ecosystem, UH and we don't 870 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,359 Speaker 1: know where people are, then we would just have to 871 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 1: assume they have died. Like so is it? Does anonymity 872 00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 1: also provide um we talked about crime for um or 873 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,200 Speaker 1: excuse me? Does the lack of anonymity? Does constant surveillance 874 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 1: also provide benefits beyond just personal person crime? Right? It 875 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,760 Speaker 1: has you know a lot of advantages. And the other 876 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: thing about Mars is that we will know every single 877 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,160 Speaker 1: person who's there. You know, they all cost a million 878 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:43,200 Speaker 1: dollars each to get there or something, So it's not like, uh, 879 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, the United States has this weird problem right 880 00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,920 Speaker 1: now where ten or eleven million people are here illegally, 881 00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,560 Speaker 1: like technically they don't exist in our society because they 882 00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:59,720 Speaker 1: aren't uh, you know, registered citizens of the society. That 883 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,840 Speaker 1: can't happen on Mars. That's sort of the ultimate anonymity. 884 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,680 Speaker 1: If you think about it, you just walk over a 885 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,640 Speaker 1: border and you're in the United States. Is this kind 886 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:16,280 Speaker 1: of ghost doing things that you know that are completely untracked. 887 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:21,000 Speaker 1: That's you know, that's not a good situation for society 888 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,080 Speaker 1: to be in either. So on Mars, you know every 889 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,920 Speaker 1: single person who's there. We already know the location of 890 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 1: everybody from their cell phones. So we simply take advantage 891 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:38,040 Speaker 1: of that when crimes occur and and know who is 892 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:42,880 Speaker 1: where when the crime happened, and suddenly every crime, just 893 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: about every crime is solvable in that kind of scenario, 894 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:53,440 Speaker 1: which has an incredible reductive force on the on the 895 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,800 Speaker 1: crime that's going to happen. And this since we're talking 896 00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,920 Speaker 1: about pop relation. I have a I have a couple 897 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 1: of different questions I wanted to explore, um, and I'm 898 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: gonna save one for the end, if that's okay with everybody. Uh, 899 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:14,200 Speaker 1: but right now, while let's stay on society. So one 900 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,280 Speaker 1: of the one of the things that I think is implied, 901 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,440 Speaker 1: and it's it's explicitly stated in the book. I think 902 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,120 Speaker 1: it's implied in the proposition of people living on Mars 903 00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:29,800 Speaker 1: is that the way as society grows and the way 904 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:35,960 Speaker 1: generation cycle will have to be radically different. Right. Um, 905 00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:42,760 Speaker 1: so what would what would change about, say, reproduction on 906 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,960 Speaker 1: Mars or you know? Um, it reminds me of Okay, 907 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,200 Speaker 1: this is kind of a deep cut for for sci 908 00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,439 Speaker 1: fi nerds in the crowd. Um, but do you all 909 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 1: remember Logan's Run? Do you do you remember that one? Marshall, 910 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:04,080 Speaker 1: I have not seen that movie. Illiterate when Logan's Uh. 911 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:09,280 Speaker 1: In Logan's Run, there is a there there is Uh. 912 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,720 Speaker 1: It's like an post apocalyptic thing where in a lot 913 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: of the members of a society are given a specific 914 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,680 Speaker 1: amount of time during which they live, you know, and 915 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:28,280 Speaker 1: after that timeline expires, they are um, they you know, 916 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:33,360 Speaker 1: they are eliminated. Uh. One thing that's interesting about that 917 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,240 Speaker 1: is it focuses on the end of human life. But 918 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,919 Speaker 1: in in your book, in your exploration here we talk 919 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,080 Speaker 1: a little bit about reproduction, about the beginning of human life, 920 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,880 Speaker 1: which is pretty much um. You know, nowadays, nobody would 921 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,520 Speaker 1: have to pass the test to have a child. Nobody 922 01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,880 Speaker 1: would have to And when I say tests, you know 923 01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, I mean like no one would have to 924 01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,120 Speaker 1: pass some sort of socioeconomic at mistest, like can you 925 01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:06,200 Speaker 1: afford a child? Uh, do you have any health problems? Etcetera? 926 01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Would this change on Mars? Well, first of all, I 927 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,919 Speaker 1: haven't written this chapter yet, although it's coming. Of all, 928 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:20,320 Speaker 1: it is a great question because in the United States anyway, 929 01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:27,120 Speaker 1: once someone becomes fertile, they can have a child. And 930 01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,480 Speaker 1: in addition, anybody who's fertile can have as many children 931 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:37,560 Speaker 1: as she wants. And a she can do that with 932 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:43,920 Speaker 1: absolutely no training of any kind. Notes you know, training 933 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,720 Speaker 1: or you mentioned background checks or uh, you know she 934 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,680 Speaker 1: strung out on heroin. You know, nothing stops someone from 935 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:59,120 Speaker 1: having a child in today's society. And the question you 936 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,720 Speaker 1: would ask about Mars, is that an appropriate way to 937 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: be raising children? And should it be rethought. The the 938 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,640 Speaker 1: cool thing about the thought experiment of Mars is that 939 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,560 Speaker 1: it is this blank sheet of paper. So would you 940 01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:19,920 Speaker 1: rethink how parenthood would work in a situation like Mars 941 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: where everybody's living under a bubble and you can't necessarily 942 01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:31,480 Speaker 1: just have the population explode without some forethought and some adjustment. 943 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: And the other thing that's happening is that human lifespan 944 01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:41,080 Speaker 1: is is stretching out right now. So there's a number 945 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:46,000 Speaker 1: of different large organizations working on making people immortal, and 946 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,880 Speaker 1: a lot of speculation that our lifespans are about to 947 01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,959 Speaker 1: get much much longer in the near term future. So 948 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:58,240 Speaker 1: in in all you think about all those things. And 949 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 1: and the question for the Mars colony is can anybody 950 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,840 Speaker 1: just have a kid whenever they feel like it? And 951 01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,960 Speaker 1: if not, how do you how do you organize the 952 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,800 Speaker 1: system that's going to to make reproduction more rational in 953 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: the Mars environment? And it's like a lot of these questions. 954 01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:24,320 Speaker 1: It really makes you think, like deeply about how we 955 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,720 Speaker 1: run our society today. Why should anybody, you know, like 956 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,800 Speaker 1: I have four kids, I had no training when I 957 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,160 Speaker 1: had four children, Like why not what a barber, for example, 958 01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,440 Speaker 1: in these of training just to cut a person's hair, Like, 959 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,960 Speaker 1: how is it possible that I'm a parent without any 960 01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:51,120 Speaker 1: training at all. It's it's weird, Marshall, is that when 961 01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,520 Speaker 1: it's my kids might have some interesting perspectives on this, 962 01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,200 Speaker 1: I'm not going to let them near the phone. So 963 01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:02,120 Speaker 1: the you know, it's it's very odd to run something 964 01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:08,200 Speaker 1: as important as reproduction as as loosely as we do 965 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,400 Speaker 1: on planet Earth. And if you look over at Africa 966 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:16,240 Speaker 1: and what's happening over there with reproduction right now, that's 967 01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,480 Speaker 1: a whole another dimension of it. But that is a 968 01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,040 Speaker 1: very sticky issue, very controversial when you start trying to 969 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:28,000 Speaker 1: intervene in people's reproductive systems the way they use their bodies. 970 01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:33,760 Speaker 1: People are repelled by that in general, can be but 971 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:38,960 Speaker 1: the flip side of that should have should an untrained 972 01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:43,880 Speaker 1: human be able to create and then mold a new 973 01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,120 Speaker 1: human life? You know, both sides of it are fascinating 974 01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:52,280 Speaker 1: to look at and to think about. Uh, and I 975 01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:54,880 Speaker 1: it's something we should talk about as a society, like 976 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:59,720 Speaker 1: it should be out there and getting discussed because the 977 01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,800 Speaker 1: idea that a fifteen year old can have a kid 978 01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,960 Speaker 1: with no training is weird that you know, we wouldn't 979 01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,320 Speaker 1: let someone drive a car with no training, and we 980 01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't let you know, thousands of other activities occur in 981 01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,480 Speaker 1: our society without training, but bringing up a whole new 982 01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:26,440 Speaker 1: human life, uh, and the ramifications of that are just 983 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,560 Speaker 1: startling to think about. And and I think the Mars 984 01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,240 Speaker 1: Colony is a great place to explore the different options. 985 01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,120 Speaker 1: So there's uh, there's another thing here that that occurs 986 01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:43,480 Speaker 1: to us when we talk about options. M one thing 987 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:49,320 Speaker 1: that we we haven't addressed yet is the interaction between 988 01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 1: what would be too radically different systems or you know, 989 01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,840 Speaker 1: in the case of Earth and Mars, one radically different 990 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,680 Speaker 1: system being the Mars Colney, and then this pastiche of 991 01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:08,160 Speaker 1: these other systems. To what degree, given the distance and 992 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:12,480 Speaker 1: the chasm of space there, to what degree would the 993 01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:18,560 Speaker 1: Martian colony and the people of Earth interact? That's a 994 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:23,760 Speaker 1: great question. And like there there are ten different forms 995 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,960 Speaker 1: of interaction that we might think about. So do they 996 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,760 Speaker 1: like just a phone call between the two places That 997 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,480 Speaker 1: doesn't work. But you can't have a phone call from 998 01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,320 Speaker 1: Mars to Earth because of the time delay. It's as 999 01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,760 Speaker 1: short as six minutes, it gets as long as forty minutes. 1000 01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,560 Speaker 1: I think I'm doing that off memory. But you know, 1001 01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,200 Speaker 1: you you just can't have a phone call. So now 1002 01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,440 Speaker 1: that's gone. That means video call or gone. You can 1003 01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,880 Speaker 1: do email. They can interact that way. They can interact economically, 1004 01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,840 Speaker 1: like through trade, but that's hard to imagine because of 1005 01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,360 Speaker 1: the cost of moving freight around. Then there's trade of 1006 01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:10,520 Speaker 1: intellectual property. Uh. You could develop things on Mars, you know, books, movies, 1007 01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,200 Speaker 1: digital products. You can move those back and forth and 1008 01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,560 Speaker 1: communicate that way with Earth. Then there's travel like moving 1009 01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:23,800 Speaker 1: actual physical bodies around. That's possible, but really hard and 1010 01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:29,480 Speaker 1: really expensive, so unlikely to occur very many times. Uh. 1011 01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,160 Speaker 1: And so you look at all those different forms of 1012 01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:39,760 Speaker 1: of communication, the it's quite likely that Mars, the people 1013 01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:44,800 Speaker 1: on Mars would spin up their own way of doing things. 1014 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:49,440 Speaker 1: Because of the isolation that the distance is gonna uh 1015 01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:54,760 Speaker 1: force onto the two societies. It seems more plausible that 1016 01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,400 Speaker 1: they would inevitably begin to drift apart than it does 1017 01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:05,040 Speaker 1: that they would maintaining very very close relations um. You know, 1018 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,520 Speaker 1: most one thing we know about a lot of colonies 1019 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,560 Speaker 1: in human history, just on the planet is that they 1020 01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,760 Speaker 1: end up doing their own thing eventually. And I'm gonna 1021 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,960 Speaker 1: go super rabbit hole with this. Over a long enough timeline, 1022 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:24,520 Speaker 1: would they evolve differently? Oh well, I think that's almost certain. Yeah, 1023 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:30,040 Speaker 1: over even a relatively short timeline. Because of there's so 1024 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:35,240 Speaker 1: many uh weird things about Mars, from the gravity to 1025 01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:39,040 Speaker 1: the radiation and the places and ways they're going to 1026 01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,040 Speaker 1: live and so on. It it's going to impose a 1027 01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:47,080 Speaker 1: lot of uh new pressures on the human genome that 1028 01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:51,200 Speaker 1: will cause them to diverge. I would expect sooner rather 1029 01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,960 Speaker 1: than later. So really fast, Marshal, the timeline for this 1030 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,600 Speaker 1: that Elon Musk played out, can you just tell us 1031 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,840 Speaker 1: about that really fast? Well, it moves around a little bit, 1032 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:06,400 Speaker 1: but the thought was that it could start in the twenties, 1033 01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,960 Speaker 1: and I think his architecture moves a hundred people at 1034 01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:17,360 Speaker 1: a time, so that would probably take decades, you know, 1035 01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:21,280 Speaker 1: a couple of decades, three four to move a million 1036 01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:25,040 Speaker 1: people across. But as soon as you move any people there, 1037 01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:29,000 Speaker 1: they're probably going to start reproducing in some form, so 1038 01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,040 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have to import all one million folks 1039 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:38,599 Speaker 1: uh into the colony. But in his vision, it's starting 1040 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,360 Speaker 1: in the twenties, and it maybe is is taking to 1041 01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,320 Speaker 1: three or four decades for the colony to ramp up 1042 01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:48,479 Speaker 1: to its full million person scale. I'm just as I 1043 01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,800 Speaker 1: was reading through, I was trying to imagine the innovations 1044 01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:55,720 Speaker 1: that will be occurring with our current technology by the 1045 01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,840 Speaker 1: time the first you know, series of ships leaves, and 1046 01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,280 Speaker 1: then what Earth, what planet Earth is going to look 1047 01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,040 Speaker 1: like from maybe just a climate perspective at that time, 1048 01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,360 Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know. It just started making me 1049 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,080 Speaker 1: a bit nervous for the future, but also you know, 1050 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,880 Speaker 1: hopeful in a way that we are sending these flow 1051 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:23,800 Speaker 1: tillas out to Mars. So overall, I think the economic 1052 01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,680 Speaker 1: system that you have outlined here and you you've kind 1053 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,960 Speaker 1: of proposed in all the different situations, it does seem 1054 01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,760 Speaker 1: like it would at least lift or it would be 1055 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:37,639 Speaker 1: possible to lift everyone up to footing that is somewhat 1056 01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:44,519 Speaker 1: equal from a socioeconomic standpoint, yes, agreed, less unequal, and 1057 01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:46,679 Speaker 1: would provide him with all the food that they need, 1058 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,000 Speaker 1: um and you know, clothes and everything they need for 1059 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:54,160 Speaker 1: a healthy and happy life. But in trying to apply 1060 01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:59,280 Speaker 1: that to the Earth currently or maybe even in that 1061 01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:03,280 Speaker 1: time frame in the twenties and the forties, um, it 1062 01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:05,880 Speaker 1: seems like that won't be possible because of all the 1063 01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:10,120 Speaker 1: powerful forces that currently control our system. There would have 1064 01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:14,400 Speaker 1: to be some kind of very big and elaborate conflict 1065 01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:21,960 Speaker 1: for that to occur. Right. Well, Chapter seventeen came out yesterday, 1066 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,280 Speaker 1: so this is a serialized book. I had a chapter 1067 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:31,639 Speaker 1: every week, and Chapter seventeen looks at this one interesting problem, 1068 01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:36,880 Speaker 1: which is the Syrian refugee problem. So we have pick 1069 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,800 Speaker 1: a number, you know, a couple of million Syrian refugees 1070 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:46,080 Speaker 1: living in pretty much absolute squalor in refugee camps, and 1071 01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,479 Speaker 1: there's no good solution to that problem on the table. 1072 01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:54,240 Speaker 1: So one of the things proposed in chapter seventeen is, well, 1073 01:11:54,320 --> 01:12:00,320 Speaker 1: let's take these people and let's apply the theory of 1074 01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:05,200 Speaker 1: the Mars Colony to them today on Earth in order 1075 01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,879 Speaker 1: to improve their situation. They're so bad off that anything 1076 01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,640 Speaker 1: we do is an improvement. And the other thing is 1077 01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:16,120 Speaker 1: they're already costing money. The U N and NGOs and 1078 01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:21,360 Speaker 1: the international community are spending some amount of money, billions 1079 01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:27,160 Speaker 1: of dollars every year on this pretty much intractable problem. 1080 01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,479 Speaker 1: So I understand what you're saying about. You know, it's 1081 01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:34,080 Speaker 1: hard to imagine this happening on Earth, but I think 1082 01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:40,160 Speaker 1: a situation like the Syrian refugee situation, which is at 1083 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people living in abject poverty and misery. 1084 01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,559 Speaker 1: They're already consuming resources, but it's never going to get 1085 01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,479 Speaker 1: them out of that misery. If we do it the 1086 01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,120 Speaker 1: way we're doing it now, it gives us a chance 1087 01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:58,760 Speaker 1: to think about trying something different with them. And and 1088 01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,320 Speaker 1: that's what chapter seven and is about. Could we take 1089 01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,880 Speaker 1: these principles and bring them to life on planet Earth, 1090 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,200 Speaker 1: you know, starting six months, use the money that's being 1091 01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:14,320 Speaker 1: used to support them already but re allocated so that 1092 01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,920 Speaker 1: they get to build themselves a modern city to live 1093 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,599 Speaker 1: in that is really a great place to live, as 1094 01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:26,840 Speaker 1: opposed to a miserable, almost prison like existence that they're 1095 01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,080 Speaker 1: having now. Yes, I think this is This is a 1096 01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:35,040 Speaker 1: great point for anybody who hasn't read UH chapter seventeen. 1097 01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:38,880 Speaker 1: As as Marshall has said, this is a serialized and 1098 01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:45,400 Speaker 1: ongoing work. Marshall, as we as we wrap up the 1099 01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:47,840 Speaker 1: episode today, we want to thank you so much for 1100 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:52,559 Speaker 1: your time, and most importantly, we want to know if 1101 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,439 Speaker 1: you have any closing statements or thoughts that we have 1102 01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,000 Speaker 1: an addressed yet in the podcast. That would be um 1103 01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:05,320 Speaker 1: of particular interest or use to our audience. Well, the 1104 01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,920 Speaker 1: first thing I would say is I would love to 1105 01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:13,759 Speaker 1: get feedback, positive and negative feedback on on the book 1106 01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:18,599 Speaker 1: as it's developing, and I already get uh a lot 1107 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,880 Speaker 1: of really interesting thoughts. Like you guys brought up a 1108 01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:26,559 Speaker 1: lot of really interesting thoughts, and they uh, they truly 1109 01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,559 Speaker 1: helped with the development of the book. So my email 1110 01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:33,800 Speaker 1: address UH is online and publicly visible. It's easy to 1111 01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:36,240 Speaker 1: find me on the internet, so you can look at 1112 01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:43,760 Speaker 1: the book and send me email. The other thing is, UH, 1113 01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,479 Speaker 1: you know, I I left how stuff works and one 1114 01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,360 Speaker 1: of the things I want to do with my life 1115 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,679 Speaker 1: is solved some of the big problems on Earth. And 1116 01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:59,960 Speaker 1: this Mars Colony thought experiment is a way of exploring 1117 01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:03,160 Speaker 1: ring the poverty problem and the concentration of wealth problem, 1118 01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:09,520 Speaker 1: and the inequality problem. And that has been a really interesting, 1119 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:15,640 Speaker 1: uh experience and interesting exploration to try to think of 1120 01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:20,639 Speaker 1: a new economic system that would radically improve the lives 1121 01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:23,599 Speaker 1: of billions of people on the planet. So the more 1122 01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,080 Speaker 1: people who know about it and are thinking about it 1123 01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:29,320 Speaker 1: and are discussing ways to improve society for everyone, I 1124 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,439 Speaker 1: think the better. What what is the website? That you 1125 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,840 Speaker 1: do all that work for Marshall. It's called Marshall Brain 1126 01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:41,719 Speaker 1: dot com if you come there. UH. The Mars Colony 1127 01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:46,120 Speaker 1: book is at Mars dot htm on Marshall brain dot 1128 01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,280 Speaker 1: com or you'll see links to it on the homepage. 1129 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:53,040 Speaker 1: It's a free book. It's uh available to anyone. Lots 1130 01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:57,760 Speaker 1: of people reading it right now. So UH feedback is 1131 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,519 Speaker 1: welcome and encouraged, and we also welcome our listeners to 1132 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,599 Speaker 1: send us feedback about the interview and any questions you have, UM, 1133 01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,439 Speaker 1: any thoughts you have about all of this stuff. We 1134 01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,960 Speaker 1: think it's super fascinating and we really appreciate you talking 1135 01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,639 Speaker 1: with us about it today. Marshall Brain. Thanks so much. Yeah, 1136 01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:17,200 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much. Because I do I 1137 01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,640 Speaker 1: do want to mention as we close that this is 1138 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:25,160 Speaker 1: only the latest in a long line of books that 1139 01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:29,120 Speaker 1: you have written, Marshall, including How God Works, the Engineering Book, 1140 01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:34,720 Speaker 1: multiple How Stuff Works books, Manna UH Teenager's Guide to 1141 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,680 Speaker 1: the Real World. You can you can find all of 1142 01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:43,120 Speaker 1: these uh if you search online. And as Nola Marshall said, UH, 1143 01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:47,200 Speaker 1: this is this is ongoing. We want your feedback in 1144 01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:49,599 Speaker 1: a very real way. What we like to say here 1145 01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,240 Speaker 1: on the show is that you, the audience, are the 1146 01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:56,240 Speaker 1: most important part of this whole of this whole crazy thing. 1147 01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:00,280 Speaker 1: Uh so yes, Uh. Marshall Brain uh, founder of How 1148 01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:04,680 Speaker 1: Stuff Works, the author of the ongoing serialized work imagining 1149 01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,840 Speaker 1: Ellen Musk, million person Mars Colony. You can check it 1150 01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:13,160 Speaker 1: out today at Marshall Brain dot com. And that's the 1151 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,719 Speaker 1: end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts 1152 01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:20,679 Speaker 1: or questions about this episode, you can get into contact 1153 01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:22,880 Speaker 1: with us in a number of different ways. One of 1154 01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,719 Speaker 1: the best is to give us a call. Our number 1155 01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:28,360 Speaker 1: is one eight three three st d w y t K. 1156 01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:30,679 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do that, you can send 1157 01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:34,000 Speaker 1: us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at 1158 01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,640 Speaker 1: i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You 1159 01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,320 Speaker 1: to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For 1160 01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,760 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 1161 01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,640 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 1162 01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:46,320 Speaker 1: favorite shows.