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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast.

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Speaker 3: I'm Tracy Alloway and I'm Jill.

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Speaker 4: Why isn't thal Joe?

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Speaker 2: I have a very personal question to ask you.

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Speaker 5: Well, we've known each other for a very long time,

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Speaker 5: so there's not much left that we don't know, but

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Speaker 5: go for it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I actually don't know the answer to this question.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever baked anything?

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Speaker 5: Ah, not that much. I went through this. I'm just

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Speaker 5: gonna the answer is basically no.

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Speaker 3: No, Wait, you were going to say something. You went

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Speaker 3: through a phase one.

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Speaker 5: Time in high school. I got in this like weird,

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Speaker 5: like experimental baking obsession with a friend of mine where

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Speaker 5: we just sort of tried to relearn baking by first

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Speaker 5: principles and see what works.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, what does that mean?

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Speaker 5: Just like not eating any recipes, so not reading any

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Speaker 5: recipes and just start figuring it out and then seeing

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Speaker 5: like what cause things to rise and what tasted good

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Speaker 5: without any starting principles or anything. We knew a few

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Speaker 5: basic ingredients.

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Speaker 6: It's fun.

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Speaker 5: I should get back into bacon.

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Speaker 3: You should, It's really fun.

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Speaker 5: What do you, Tracy? We know this is just a setup.

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Speaker 5: Because you want to talk about your bacon, why don't

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Speaker 5: you just tell us what you like to bake.

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Speaker 2: Hey, look, I don't bake that much. Actually in my household,

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Speaker 2: my husband bakes everything. So he does a really good

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Speaker 2: bass cheesecake, really good chocolate chip cookies, things like that.

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Speaker 2: But if you were doing first principle baking, I imagine

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Speaker 2: you know how difficult it is and all the things

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Speaker 2: that are involved in just making like a simple loaf

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Speaker 2: of bread.

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Speaker 6: I am aware.

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Speaker 5: And the other thing is not only I understand that

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Speaker 5: it's very complex, but beyond that, I'm always flabbergested at

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Speaker 5: the idea of doing it at industrial scale or semi

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Speaker 5: industrial scale, and how that even works. I have no idea,

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Speaker 5: to be honest, honestly, industrial scale food preparation at all

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Speaker 5: seems crazy to me, like steaks and everything, Like how

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Speaker 5: do you do it over and over and over again

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Speaker 5: and get a repeatable process? It is like a fascinating

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Speaker 5: question to me.

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Speaker 2: Right, So that's really interesting in and of itself. But

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Speaker 2: the other interesting thing about the baking business at industrial scale,

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Speaker 2: as you just pointed out, is it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: microcosm for the economy. You have all these commodity inputs,

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Speaker 2: which obviously move around along with inflation. You have labor issues,

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Speaker 2: you have to get bakers who want to get into

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Speaker 2: work really really early in the morning, and obviously you

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Speaker 2: also have consumer demands. So it's really an interesting lens

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Speaker 2: to kind of look through.

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Speaker 5: Well, one of our the favorite episodes that we've ever done,

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Speaker 5: which I think was twenty twenty two or maybe twenty twenty.

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Speaker 4: One, long time ago, we.

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Speaker 5: Talked to a commercial baker in Chicago, and I've always

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Speaker 5: wanted to do more. There was such a pivotal episode

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Speaker 5: for us, and I was like, well, you know, we

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Speaker 5: learned a lot about what was going on with commodity costs,

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Speaker 5: we learned a lot what was going on with pricing, power,

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Speaker 5: et cetera. Well, it's twenty twenty five now I would

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Speaker 5: like to learn more about what's going on.

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Speaker 2: All right, So we're gonna dive back into baking, possibly

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Speaker 2: not on a first principal basis, but we have the

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Speaker 2: perfect guest. We're going to be speaking with Andy Cayden.

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Speaker 5: He diden banking baking from first principles to be a

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Speaker 5: really good that would be like a good name for

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Speaker 5: a cookbook. All right, Sorry, keep going.

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Speaker 2: Good name for a baking podcast. Perhaps, Okay, we're going

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Speaker 2: to be speaking with Andy Cayden. He is the owner

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Speaker 2: of a bakery in LA that's called Bub and Grandma's.

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Speaker 2: They do wholesale orders for a bunch of different LA restaurants,

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Speaker 2: so industrial scale, as you mentioned, Joe, but they also

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Speaker 2: have a retail restaurant that does sandwiches and they're in

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Speaker 2: the process of opening a pizzerias.

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Speaker 3: So amazing all the.

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Speaker 2: Baked goods Andy, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 6: Really good to be here, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Shall we start out with where did your interest in

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Speaker 2: bread actually come from? Was this like a COVID trope

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Speaker 2: where everyone started doing their own sour dough and got

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Speaker 2: really into carbohydrates.

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Speaker 6: Maybe I'm a little prot Covid in my obsession. I

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Speaker 6: was a writer in advertising and TV for about a

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Speaker 6: decade after school and learned fairly quickly after I got

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Speaker 6: to Los Angeles about sixteen years ago that I hated

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Speaker 6: it and hated myself for contributing to sort of the

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Speaker 6: advertising culture, so to speak, and I needed to escape

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Speaker 6: and always had an obsession with cooking and eating and

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Speaker 6: decided to focus on something that I saw missing from

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Speaker 6: the Los Angeles landscape. After I moved here from the

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Speaker 6: East Coast. I grew up in New Jersey kind of

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Speaker 6: in Italian Jewish sandwich mecca, and saw that there was

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Speaker 6: sort of a glaring absence of those style of kind

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Speaker 6: of walk into it and have a great sandwich kind

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Speaker 6: of experience in Los Angeles. There are a few notable spots,

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Speaker 6: but they aren't everywhere like they are in New York

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Speaker 6: and New Jersey. I decided to start writing some business

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Speaker 6: plans and figure out how to open a sandwich shop here,

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Speaker 6: and you know, started working at sandwich hoop in Hollywood

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Speaker 6: called Potato Chips for free on the weekends, staging at

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Speaker 6: a variety of bakeries, just to try and figure out

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Speaker 6: how bread worked. And in that process of trying to

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Speaker 6: figure out how bread works, simply just to talk to

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Speaker 6: bakers about what I wanted, I started baking daily at

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Speaker 6: home and got into that pseudo Covid rhythm of daily

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Speaker 6: baking and the obsession of that comes from falling into it,

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Speaker 6: you know, into its grasp, and you know, started giving

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Speaker 6: away all the bread I was making, and it found

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Speaker 6: its way to a friend of mine who worked at

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Speaker 6: a local restaurant and the owner called me out of

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Speaker 6: the blue and asked if I could make bread for

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Speaker 6: him daily. I said yes, and hasn't stopped for ten years.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so initially were you just baking bread at scale

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Speaker 2: in your kitchen.

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Speaker 6: I started as just for me, just as an experiment,

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Speaker 6: but very quickly kind of once I had that first account,

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Speaker 6: which was maybe six months after I started baking, six

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Speaker 6: months to a year, the attention came quickly and I

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Speaker 6: started needing to level up over and over and over again.

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Speaker 6: So the first place that I would mix the bread

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Speaker 6: in my house and ferment it there, and then shape

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Speaker 6: it and take it to a pizza place around the

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Speaker 6: corner and bake it in there pizza oven. It was

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Speaker 6: a variety of these acts together, baking in other bakeries

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Speaker 6: off hours to get things done, and as the demand

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Speaker 6: grew very quickly, I quickly had to figure out how

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Speaker 6: to run a business, not just bake a few loaves

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Speaker 6: of bread out of my house, and moved into a

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Speaker 6: semi legitimate space at about a year and a half.

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Speaker 5: Flash forward to today, zooming out, why don't you tell

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Speaker 5: us about the size and scope of your businesses? What

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Speaker 5: do you have right now just in terms of a

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Speaker 5: volume and number of employees stuff like that.

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Speaker 6: The wholesale bakery, which is what that story evolved into,

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Speaker 6: is now a fifty person business. We have a sixty

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Speaker 6: five hundred square foot facility that produces bread, just bread,

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Speaker 6: not pastry, for about one hundred and eighty restaurants in

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Speaker 6: Los Angeles. It's a pretty wide distribution, and we are

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Speaker 6: still trying to grow. We're kind of wall to wall

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Speaker 6: in that space and need to move in the next

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Speaker 6: two years, so we're starting to investigate what that would

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Speaker 6: look like. We also opened a retail restaurant almost three

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Speaker 6: years ago, which is insane how quickly that three years

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Speaker 6: has passed in our weird time vortex that we live

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Speaker 6: within now, and that is another almost fifty person business

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Speaker 6: in the Glassow Park neighborhood of Los Angeles. We are

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Speaker 6: in the process of opening a pizza place in Highland Park,

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Speaker 6: a neighboring neighborhood, that will be open, hopefully in the

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Speaker 6: next four to five weeks, so that'll be another thirty employees,

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Speaker 6: growing to fifty over time.

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Speaker 2: Why did you decide to do the retail sandwich shop,

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Speaker 2: because I imagine wholesale actually sounds kind of nice because you're

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Speaker 2: still making a product, but you're divorced from face to

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Speaker 2: face interact with customers, which sounds nice to me, but

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Speaker 2: obviously you have a different opinion.

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Speaker 6: No, I don't. I mean, we started with wholesale. We

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Speaker 6: started in this less sexy, less customer facing environment for

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Speaker 6: the first say, five years of the business before we

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Speaker 6: you know, changed gears to open the retail restaurant. The

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Speaker 6: wholesale business is a much more steady ship. I sort

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Speaker 6: of describe it as you have this big ship. It's

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Speaker 6: moving up and down in the water, but ultimately as

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Speaker 6: forward moving. It's harder to capsize. It's harder to knock

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Speaker 6: off course, and that makes it a little bit, let's say,

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Speaker 6: less crazy the restaurant business, which was what I wanted

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Speaker 6: to get into in the first place. Had I known

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Speaker 6: what it would be like at the now that I'm there,

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Speaker 6: you know, maybe a wholesale would have been better. To

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Speaker 6: stay out. It's so much harder. It's much more dynamic,

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Speaker 6: everything is changing all the time, much more difficult to

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Speaker 6: isolate the variables. There's far more variable to consider in

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Speaker 6: the restaurant, especially when you bring in customer customer behaviors

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Speaker 6: and how things really just consistently fluctuate across the board.

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Speaker 5: One of the themes that comes up in a range

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Speaker 5: of topics that we talk about is distribution, and actually

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Speaker 5: well distribution in terms of sales, but also the physical distribution.

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Speaker 5: How does it work in Los Angeles? Do you have

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Speaker 5: your own vans? Are there third parties that drop off

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Speaker 5: the bread to the restaurants?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 5: Talk about how you like built up that network and

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Speaker 5: how the bread physically gets from your commercial bakery into

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Speaker 5: the restaurant.

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Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, we have. Currently we have six vans that

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Speaker 6: are either leased or owned, and it's been a bit

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Speaker 6: of an excruciating endeavor building out this whole network because

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Speaker 6: it is a major, major part of what we do,

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Speaker 6: especially because we're wall to wall. When I say wal

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Speaker 6: to wall, it basically means there is literally no more

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Speaker 6: ovens based per hour available for new loaves of bread

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Speaker 6: to increase our productions. So if you start baking at

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Speaker 6: two thirty in the morning and you need to get

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Speaker 6: bread to all of these accounts before they open at

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Speaker 6: eight am, you have a very narrow window to cool

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Speaker 6: that bread, pack that bread, get it into the vans,

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Speaker 6: and get it out to these accounts. So our ops

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Speaker 6: team at the bakery are true geniuses and building out

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Speaker 6: these roots because you have only had this very narrow

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Speaker 6: gap to hit, and if there's famous La traffic or

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Speaker 6: anything else that gets backed up in the baking process,

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Speaker 6: you are scrambling to try and make sure that you

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Speaker 6: take care of these accounts in a way where they

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Speaker 6: can still do their jobs. So we have to do

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Speaker 6: our job, not only just the baking job, but the

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Speaker 6: distribution job before they show up, before anybody else from

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Speaker 6: our accounts show up to work. Also, the vans themselves

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Speaker 6: are you know, deeply problematic. They are the number one

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Speaker 6: thing that breaks needs service, needs attention, you know, more,

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Speaker 6: even more so than our ovens, which are in near

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Speaker 6: constant use. And we have explored a number of different options,

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Speaker 6: especially for when we potentially move to a bigger space

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Speaker 6: about outsourcing our distribution. There are a lot of upstart

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Speaker 6: wholesale distribution companies, some of which are based in La

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Speaker 6: a lot more in San Francisco that are sort of

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Speaker 6: taking the Uber approach and outsourcing their drivers or having

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Speaker 6: a dedicated pool of drivers who work with a variety

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Speaker 6: of different accounts as opposed to one to one so that,

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Speaker 6: you know, one of the major issues with our business

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Speaker 6: is the you know, fluctuating repair and maintenance numbers for

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Speaker 6: our vans. If we can offload that to someone else,

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Speaker 6: that is something that we have certainly looked into. But

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Speaker 6: when we get into the mix with these conversations, we

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Speaker 6: always kind of end in the same place where, yes,

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Speaker 6: we are not a customer you know, a consumer facing company,

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Speaker 6: but our business relies on that single interaction between the

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Speaker 6: chefs and our drivers. They are our point of contact

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Speaker 6: with our customers. And if that is not an authentic connection,

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Speaker 6: and if that is not something our employees are connecting

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Speaker 6: with our customers, there's a potential for things to go

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Speaker 6: wrong and a potential for that relationship to be sour.

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Speaker 6: So we've ultimately stuck with our own employees and our

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Speaker 6: own vans for now.

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Speaker 5: Tracy, I'm just thinking about how crazy it must be

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Speaker 5: like have an interest in bread such as yourself, and

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Speaker 5: then suddenly like you're in the.

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Speaker 3: Break become a mechanic.

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Speaker 5: Oh, you're in the break prayer business too, and you

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Speaker 5: got to take that into account.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking the same thing, and it's something that

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Speaker 2: I guess when people envision a bakery you don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: think about the transportation and delivery aspect of it. But Andy,

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Speaker 2: you mentioned two thirty am just then and the narrow

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Speaker 2: window for delivery, and I have to ask, what's it

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Speaker 2: like getting actual workers in the door? Who who want

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Speaker 2: to I guess wake up at like one am in

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Speaker 2: the morning and go bake bread.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's tricky, you know. You first of all,

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Speaker 6: you have to love it. You have to love the process.

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Speaker 6: And I mean the two thirds the aspect is, you know,

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Speaker 6: very very early and a very very different lifestyle in

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Speaker 6: a literal way. You are falling asleep at five thirty pm,

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Speaker 6: and that means that your you know, connection with your

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Speaker 6: family or connection with your friends. You're operating on a

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Speaker 6: completely different time zone than they are, and it makes

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Speaker 6: things complicated if folks are not operating on the same

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Speaker 6: schedule as you. But you know, the it's that was

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Speaker 6: the last baking ship that that I did was the

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Speaker 6: Sunday morning two thirty am bake for the Hollywood Farmer's Market.

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Speaker 6: I would, you know, get up at two roll down

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Speaker 6: to the bakery. It would be just me in the dark,

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Speaker 6: a lot of people returning from their various parties, on

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Speaker 6: Saturday night, which made driving there a little bit sketchy,

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Speaker 6: but always you know, being careful and then you know,

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Speaker 6: finish the bake, pack it up, put it in my truck,

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Speaker 6: and go to the farmer's market and sell it. And

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Speaker 6: then the day would wrap up around two thirty, so

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Speaker 6: it would be this twelve hour kind of sprint and

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Speaker 6: then sale and then come back. And you know, at

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Speaker 6: a certain point it was the only bake shift that

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Speaker 6: I was doing because I had to manage the business

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Speaker 6: during the other days of the week that I was

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Speaker 6: not doing that. And when you just bake one day

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Speaker 6: a week at two thirty in the morning, it scrambles

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Speaker 6: your mind so wildly and your sleep schedule that I

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Speaker 6: had to eventually abandon it just because I needed more

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Speaker 6: time to manage the businesses. But you really have to

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Speaker 6: subscribe to the lifestyle if you try and push the edge,

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Speaker 6: you know, especially when I was baking and managing five days,

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Speaker 6: baking five days a week and still trying to manage

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Speaker 6: the business, it was getting sick a lot. It was

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Speaker 6: very difficult to stay healthy when you're operating across two

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Speaker 6: you know, time zones. Really you're living in this kind

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Speaker 6: of Oh my wife and my friends are all living

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Speaker 6: in this time zone, and my business is living in

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Speaker 6: this time zone, and I need both. I need to

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Speaker 6: be there for both. Those were far more complicated times

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Speaker 6: for my own health. But we're on the other side

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Speaker 6: of that now.

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Speaker 5: We mentioned in the beginning, you know, we like this

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Speaker 5: topic because it's sort of a lends into everything. But

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Speaker 5: what are you seeing today in terms of you know,

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Speaker 5: if you compare now to when you started, how do

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Speaker 5: you think or versus the peak of the inflation whatever was,

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Speaker 5: how do things look today when it comes to both

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Speaker 5: hiring availability and also raw commodity cost ingredient costs.

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Speaker 6: Hiring availability is unique for us. Obviously, we are looking

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Speaker 6: for a very specialized group of people. So the skills

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Speaker 6: that they hopefully already have are in rare supply in

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Speaker 6: Los Angeles, and that makes hiring complicated far more so

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Speaker 6: for the wholesale bakery than for the restaurant. The restaurant

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Speaker 6: has a lot of over the pool is much wider,

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Speaker 6: and we have very little trouble hiring at the restaurant

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Speaker 6: the bakery.

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Speaker 5: Would you have said this same thing in twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: two or twenty twenty three, or does it feel easier

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Speaker 5: today than it would have back then at the at

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Speaker 5: the retail level, because that's where that's where like all

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Speaker 5: the complaints were, right, everyone, all the restaurants in the

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Speaker 5: service entities were complaining about how impossible it was.

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Speaker 6: I think that it's I think that it's impossible if

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Speaker 6: you don't already have a name that people know. And

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Speaker 6: I think for us, we've spent a lot of our

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Speaker 6: efforts making sure that our employees are well taken care

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Speaker 6: of and supported and treated like the human beings that

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Speaker 6: they are. And I think that when we open the

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Speaker 6: restaurant after the bakery, that was already somewhat established in

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Speaker 6: the in the public eye, so that helps us to

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Speaker 6: kind of make this place. I mean, this is the

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Speaker 6: point of it all is we want to make this

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Speaker 6: a desirable place, uh for for people to work, so

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Speaker 6: that when they come here, they have a good time,

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Speaker 6: they're well supported, they get fed, they get treated well,

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Speaker 6: they have health care. And you know, we really built

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Speaker 6: this thing on that it's becoming harder and harder to

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Speaker 6: have a functional business including all of those things, which

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Speaker 6: is you know, the real issue at hand here is

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Speaker 6: that the expenses are enumerting and the you know, sales

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Speaker 6: remain the same. So when we talk about raw materials,

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Speaker 6: there's been there's were actually in a much better place

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Speaker 6: than we were, say a year ago or even a

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Speaker 6: year before that. The bakery goes by one ingredient, it's flour.

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Speaker 6: Flour is wheat, and wheat is you know, a global

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Speaker 6: commodity that has a lot of fluctuations. It's usually compared

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Speaker 6: to others, fairly steady. But for example, when the Russia

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Speaker 6: Ukraine War broke out there Russia was not allowing Ukraine's

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Speaker 6: wheat to leave the country. Ukraine is the sort of

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Speaker 6: bread basket provider of wheat for Europe, and when that happens,

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Speaker 6: there's much more demand coming from the United States. Prices

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Speaker 6: go up, and the American users of American wheat are

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Speaker 6: the ones who end up paying more so that those

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Speaker 6: products end up in Europe cover for the loss of supply.

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Speaker 6: So we saw maybe a ten percent increase in flour pricing.

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Speaker 6: It caused us to have to drive our prices up

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Speaker 6: for the first time in a long time bread wise.

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Speaker 6: Now it has settled back down, but in the meantime,

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Speaker 6: everything else has gotten more expensive, and you know, there's

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Speaker 6: there's a you know, massive wave of restaurant closures in

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Speaker 6: Los Angeles right now, including yesterday, Coal's one hundred and

355
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Speaker 6: seventeen year old restaurant announced that it's closing. The pantry,

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Speaker 6: which has been around for one hundred years closed. It's

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Speaker 6: a very very very very difficult time for restaurants to thrive,

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Speaker 6: let you know, survive, let alone thrive in this town.

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Speaker 6: So interesting times for sure.

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Speaker 2: Just on the commodities front, how does it work in

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Speaker 2: terms of actually sourcing things like flower Do you sign

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Speaker 2: you know, forward agreement with suppliers at a certain price

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Speaker 2: and I guess, like how long term are those prices set.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's depends very much on volume. And we are

365
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Speaker 6: in this very unique sort of middle ground where we

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Speaker 6: are not a giant twenty five thousand square foot bakery

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Speaker 6: and we are not one of the sort of more

368
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Speaker 6: retail oriented two thousand square feet bakeries. We are in

369
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Speaker 6: the middle looking to make this leap to where we

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Speaker 6: can buy directly from our purveyors, and when we can

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Speaker 6: like purveyors as in non distributors, directly from King Arthur,

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Speaker 6: directly from Camus Country Mill, directly from a variety of

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Speaker 6: other flour purveyors. And when we can do those types

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Speaker 6: of things that buy at scale, say seventeen to twenty

375
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Speaker 6: pallets of flour at a time, we can lock in

376
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Speaker 6: forward pricing with King Arthur, with some of the other ones.

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Speaker 6: But in the moment now where we're operating through distributors,

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Speaker 6: we are subject to their markup and they are fluctuating

379
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Speaker 6: what they're doing based on whatever algorithms they're using to

380
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 6: calculate proper pricing, not only us from what they're getting

381
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Speaker 6: charged from the you know, the actual producer, but also

382
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 6: however their business is doing, and whatever you know markup

383
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 6: they need to include. So what we do in that circumstance,

384
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Speaker 6: and what most restaurants do is regularly pit distributors against

385
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Speaker 6: each other for our business, especially because we have a

386
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Speaker 6: lot of leverage with our flower orders. It's it's a

387
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 6: fairly significant regular order. So even if they're making a

388
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 6: very small amount on that on each bag, there there's

389
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 6: a large volume and a large frequency that has those

390
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 6: purveyors kind of jockeying for the lower price. And that's

391
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 6: there's no service, there's no anything else that really matters

392
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,959
Speaker 6: in that relationship. It's just if you can get us

393
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 6: the price we will order from you this week, and

394
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 6: they know that and they fight, and it's a weekly price.

395
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 6: It's it's more frequent than week weekly. At the moment,

396
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 6: there's a little bit of flux June June, you know.

397
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Speaker 6: And I just have regular conversations with King Arthur, who's

398
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 6: our main brand flower supplier, who are one of the

399
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 6: most wonderful businesses in the country and just good people

400
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 6: and always you know, driven to help their clients. They

401
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 6: always are monitoring, you know, the commodity future futures and

402
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 6: how things are looking going forward. And I will sometimes

403
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 6: reach out to them to find out, you know, how

404
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 6: how they are pricing things relative to who they're selling

405
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 6: to the distributors, so that I can see if the

406
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 6: increases in price are coming via the distributor or via

407
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 6: King Arthur, and then I'll know whether I have some

408
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 6: leverage to kind of push down a little bit further

409
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 6: to try and fight for cheaper prices. But there was

410
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 6: a big spy, you know, things have been trending downward

411
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 6: in price that the war, you know, the embargo opened

412
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 6: up or whatever it was that opened up and allowed

413
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 6: the wheat to leave Ukraine. So prices in the state

414
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 6: settled back down because there's less exports, and it's a

415
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 6: you know, something that if you're constantly monitoring, it is

416
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 6: changing very often in minor increments. But if you do

417
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 6: that across an entire batch of milled wheat, that's that's

418
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,479
Speaker 6: hundreds of thousands of dollars.

419
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Speaker 2: So how does that actually feed into your prices for bread?

420
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 2: And how dynamic are they If you get a price

421
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: increase one day, do you immediately pass that through to

422
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 2: the customer?

423
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 6: Almost never? And that's you know, the increases and decreases

424
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 6: are fairly minor at the moment. They are in flux,

425
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 6: but they are staying in the general vicinity. You know,

426
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Speaker 6: if we're talking specifics, we're talking about somewhere between fifteen

427
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 6: and seventeen fifty for one fifty pound bag of bread flour,

428
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 6: and that fluctuation, it stays in that zone. Maybe a

429
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 6: year ago it was up at twenty three. And if

430
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 6: you think about that, if we're ordering let's say five

431
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 6: thousand pounds a week of flour, it's actually more than that.

432
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 6: I think it's closer to sixty five hundred pounds. And

433
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 6: we're talking about a fl fluctuation of a dollar that

434
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 6: is a massive change in our end of year, you know,

435
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 6: bottom line. So it's the kind of thing where if

436
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 6: there are any changes whatsoever within that zone, they're multiplied

437
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 6: over a large number of bags and end up changing

438
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 6: things fairly significantly. So we really have to even if

439
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 6: it's within that fifteen to seventeen range as opposed to

440
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 6: going all the way up to twenty three dollars a bag,

441
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 6: that is, it's crucial for us to stay on top

442
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 6: of it. But in terms of passing the pricing on,

443
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 6: we've given ourselves a pretty wide range to stay within it.

444
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 6: That makes our pricing valid and we're constantly staying on

445
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 6: top of it. But bread, in general, the food cost

446
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 6: is not the main issue unless you're talking about a

447
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 6: jump from fifteen dollars a bag to twenty three dollars

448
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 6: a bag. The main issue is labor because cogs typically

449
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 6: with bread are in the ten to fifteen percent range,

450
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 6: which is the cheapest food product you can possibly make,

451
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 6: even if we're using like really fantastic ingredients like we are.

452
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 6: The thing is is it just takes a lot of

453
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 6: human beings and a lot of skilled human beings to

454
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 6: execute production. So if we're talking about the traditional model

455
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 6: where you see like thirty percent for labor, we're looking

456
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 6: at more forty two percent for labor and twelve percent

457
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 6: for cogs, where cogs typically in a restaurant food business

458
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 6: environment is somewhere to twenty five to thirty if you're

459
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 6: doing okay, we're at fourteen, So they the model is

460
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 6: a little bit different in the wholesale universe than it

461
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 6: is in the retail restaurant and that that is, you know,

462
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 6: we're able to have those extra bodies to get things

463
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 6: done because the cost of goods are sold low.

464
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 5: This is fascinating. Let's continue on this. But you're talking

465
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 5: about your wholesale distribution bakery, when you're talking about the restaurant.

466
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 5: How do you think that generally about the strategy of

467
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 5: price increases because obviously you know you're not going to

468
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 5: be sensitive to the day to day or the month

469
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 5: to month. My guess is many most companies want to

470
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 5: pass some sort of price increase on on a semi

471
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 5: regular basis, maybe once a year or something. But generally,

472
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 5: like talk about like how frequently you make those decisions

473
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 5: to increase prices and when.

474
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say that we are less on a

475
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 6: schedule than is typical for a larger bakery. I think

476
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 6: when you get to scale like us or larger, there's

477
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 6: an inclination just from the operation side of things to

478
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 6: make these these changes regular, and for us, it's more

479
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 6: about making sure that our accounts are getting what they

480
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 6: expect and are not being pushed further when it's no

481
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 6: real issue for us relative to cogs to float a

482
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 6: little bit of that within a range. It's also even

483
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 6: more relevant to monitor our competitors pricing. Our products are

484
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 6: not entirely apples to apples, talking about two different basic

485
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 6: what we call a house loaf, but most places call

486
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 6: a country loaf basic sour tow loaf of bread, which

487
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 6: you know we charge six dollars for wholesale and a

488
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 6: lot of other places I charge seven to fifty, but

489
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 6: their loaf is two hundred and fifty grams heavier than ours,

490
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 6: or some other difference. So it's difficult to track. But

491
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 6: in terms of what the bottom line is for our customers,

492
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 6: we have to stay within a range. We are a

493
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 6: higher end wholesale product, which makes us unique as well,

494
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 6: but at the same time that doesn't mean that we're

495
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 6: not competing with those who are making some more, you know,

496
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 6: sort of commercially mechanized loaves of bread. So we have

497
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 6: to be very mindful of our competitors' prices, and I

498
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 6: would say that reality mixed with some of the increases

499
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 6: in hogs, are what drive our price increases. I'd say

500
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 6: we've raised prices maybe twice in the last four years.

501
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 6: You know, I think we had no choice when bags

502
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 6: were all the way up at eight dollars more per

503
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 6: than they are now. And by the time we were

504
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 6: able to bring that price back down, which I think

505
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 6: I would say, you know, was around May of this year.

506
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 6: So it's a really long time of these elevated prices.

507
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 6: Other expenses like labor and outside things have increased to

508
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 6: the point where we can't lower the prices back down.

509
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 6: It's just the way that it goes. As much as

510
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 6: I'd like to, because I feel the benefit very you know,

511
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 6: I feel the benefit from passing savings off to the

512
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 6: to our accounts, but at a certain point you have

513
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 6: to protect the business and that's where we're at.

514
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: So I mentioned at the beginning that you're in the

515
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: process of opening a pizzeria, So congratulations on that on

516
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 2: the expansion. But one thing we hear a lot about

517
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: nowadays is the idea of, you know, regulation slowing down businesses,

518
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: and there seems to be certainly a dereg bent in

519
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: the Trump administration and a general sense that all these

520
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: rules and bureaucracy really slow things down. So I'm curious,

521
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,719
Speaker 2: what's the process been like for you in opening the

522
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 2: pizza restaurant? How long have you been doing it? And

523
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: I guess how much paperwork have you actually had to do? Well?

524
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 6: Los Angeles within the restaurant world, is fairly famous for

525
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 6: the ineptitude of its governmental oversight agencies. We have to

526
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 6: sort of deal with both the county and the city.

527
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 6: There's building in safety and the health department. They don't

528
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 6: talk to each other, but you're they're both kind of

529
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 6: looking at the same thing, and they both point you

530
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 6: in different directions, and it gets very complicated when the

531
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 6: inspectors starts showing up, which is throughout the process. The

532
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 6: thing about the pizza place is that it was a

533
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 6: second gen space. It was already a pizzeria that said we're,

534
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 6: you know, stripping out all the equipment and rebuilding it.

535
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 6: But that makes the process significantly faster. And if I,

536
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 6: you know, I don't want to say anything or be

537
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 6: an absolutist in any way, but I will never do

538
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 6: a first gen space ever again because it's just excruciating.

539
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 6: And you know, when we open the restaurant, we signed

540
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 6: our lease in November of twenty nineteen, so taking obviously

541
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 6: there's a pandemic to consider, but it took us three

542
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 6: years to open. A lot of that was due to

543
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 6: problems with the city. You know, a lot of it

544
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 6: is very analog. They print up your application and it sits

545
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 6: on a literal stack on someone's desk, and if you

546
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 6: don't follow up with them incessantly, that stack just gets

547
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 6: piled on top and your thing just disappears deep into

548
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 6: the you know, into the file. So it's it's a

549
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 6: very very very difficult process. Do I think the exact

550
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 6: opposite and just stripping down things to nothing is the

551
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 6: is the answer? Definitely not. But you know, LA has

552
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 6: a lot of red tape to navigate. It also is

553
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 6: expensive red tape to navigate, so you're paying a ton

554
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 6: for you know, sort of non service and making things

555
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 6: really complicated for you. You can get to the very

556
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 6: very end of the finish line and you're you're ready

557
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 6: to open, and the help inspector walks into the last

558
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 6: day and says, this floor drain is not in the

559
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 6: right place based on the plans that they approve, and

560
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 6: you know, eight months ago from somebody else, and then

561
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 6: you have no choice but to spend an extra eight

562
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 6: thousand dollars re routing your plumbing and then getting plumbing inspection.

563
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: Again, sounds like you're speaking from personal experience on that one.

564
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: That's a very specific example.

565
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 5: I mean, by the way, I looked at Cohle's, the

566
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 5: restaurant you mentioned, and I'm reading the article and the

567
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 5: quote litany of reasons for closing pandemic actor and writer strike, crime,

568
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 5: labor costs, bureaucracy, et cetera. But just on this point,

569
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: like I have never worked in our Actually I did

570
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 5: work in actually worked you worked at a sandwich shop

571
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 5: and I worked in a Nigerian restaurant in college, which

572
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 5: I never talked about. But is it like the bear Basically,

573
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 5: that's all because when people hear all of this stuff

574
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 5: about like, oh, you got to move the dream, what

575
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 5: was there was like something with a balloon or something

576
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: like that. I don't remember the exact sceme, But is

577
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 5: it like that stressful where, like, you know, they come

578
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 5: in and everyone is like on bated breath about whether

579
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 5: they see something or not before you can.

580
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 6: Open the per The fear that has struck into the

581
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 6: hearts of restaurant managers when someone with a hanging neck

582
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 6: tag comes in from the city is overwhelming. The messages

583
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 6: on slack go immediately out, and everyone springs into gear

584
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 6: because a lot of the things that they require are

585
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 6: not logical, don't make sense. Are there for the purposes

586
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 6: of checking some ridiculous box from nineteen sixty five that

587
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 6: isn't applicable anymore, But no one wants to make the

588
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 6: effort to change things with the state government or the

589
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 6: county government, and you just kind of get locked into,

590
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 6: you know, for someone who is so focused on logic

591
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 6: and the logical approach to things and really reasoning things

592
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 6: out and finding out the best way forward, it's just

593
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 6: excruciatingly frustrating to be put in this position where nothing

594
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 6: is logical and the decisions of this individual largely have

595
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 6: to do with their mood that day or whether they

596
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 6: don't whether they like your place or whether they like you,

597
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 6: or whatever's going on. It could be motivated not by

598
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 6: anything on paper, but more about this sort of unknowable nuance,

599
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 6: and it's excruciatingly frustrating. There are, you know, known inspectors

600
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 6: that people fear, there are known inspectors that people hope for,

601
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 6: and you never know what you're going to get. There's

602
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 6: I heard stories of so a lot of architecture companies

603
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 6: have sort of sprung out to become expediters as well.

604
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 6: So they basically are will take all of your paperwork

605
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 6: and the ridiculous amount of stuff that you need to do.

606
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 6: You pay them a fixed fee, and they're the ones

607
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 6: who not only well if their architects design the restaurant,

608
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 6: but then will run everything through all the necessary channels

609
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 6: with the city and the county and the state. And

610
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 6: that costs an incredible amount. So that's another thing that

611
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 6: gets you know, piled on top. But no one wants

612
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 6: to do that anymore because it's so ludicrous that it

613
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 6: just makes your you go crazy. I hear, I have

614
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 6: no experience outside of Los Angeles that this this infrastructure

615
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 6: is one of the worst out there.

616
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 2: So I listed a bunch of reasons that a restaurant

617
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: might close earlier, but I would love to get your

618
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: take on what exactly is causing restaurants to go out

619
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: of business in LA And also one thing I've always

620
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: wondered about, why do people still open restaurants, Because the

621
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: thing you hear is always that like it's a tiny,

622
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: tiny margin, it's really difficult, it's really competitive. You have

623
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: to basically give your entire life over to this endeavor.

624
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: It sounds like a hard job, but new restaurants open

625
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: all the time.

626
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 6: It's true. I think I'd say that the motivation to

627
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 6: open most restaurants is a flawed motivation. It's usually based

628
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 6: on ego or showing off cash, or trying to acquire

629
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 6: digital fame, other things that will inevitably either lead to

630
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 6: a short burst of successful by an immediate decline or

631
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 6: just an immediate misfire. And that's why most restaurants close

632
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 6: in the first year, because it's excruciatingly difficult to do this.

633
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 6: And I think that the general view is that working

634
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 6: in a restaurant is easy. It's a cop out from

635
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 6: some more corporate approach to living, and it's just not.

636
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 6: It's so much less manageable, it's so much wilder than

637
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 6: you know, a more corporate career that it makes it very,

638
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 6: very hard to do. But there is, to answer your question,

639
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 6: incredible joy in interfacing with people and making them happy

640
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 6: and being connected to hospitality and the pleasure of taking

641
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 6: care of people and giving them something that they get

642
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 6: to do, you know, three times a day, but making

643
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 6: it something that brings them joy. You can see that,

644
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 6: and that reverberates back to you in a way that

645
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 6: feels far more authentic than it felt when I was

646
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 6: writing and producing commercials trying to manipulate people into buying shit.

647
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 6: It's about that authentic connection, and I don't want to

648
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 6: have to feel bad for what I do for the

649
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 6: rest of my life. I don't want to have to

650
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 6: feel bad about it. And I did that for almost

651
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 6: a decade. And I think that this provides an authentic

652
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 6: reality for me and the people that work here, despite

653
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 6: all of the challenges of doing it. And I think

654
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 6: the challenges are in place, because the challenges are always

655
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 6: in place when you're trying to do something that's authentic

656
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 6: and aside from the general flow of our sort of

657
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 6: controlled existence that we have.

658
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 5: Right now, you mentioned digital fame. You're at the pizzeria,

659
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 5: at the restaurant, do you feel like the need to

660
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 5: have your equivalent of like, you know, the viral arawon smoothie,

661
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 5: like something like is that an important thing you think

662
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 5: about that this is a thing that could blow up

663
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 5: on TikTok or whatever.

664
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: It is.

665
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 6: No, no, but I'm I'm unique in that way. I

666
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 6: can't wait to remove us from social media. That is

667
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 6: an intractable connection. Here's how I think about it now.

668
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 6: Where the restaurant and the bakery are established, generally people

669
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 6: must say lists know to some degree, or the people

670
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 6: who are involved in food know who we are. If

671
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 6: I were to seek new customers in this moment for

672
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 6: our retail restaurant, they would be in authentic connections with

673
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 6: what we do. They might resonate with some with our

674
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 6: blt that we just put out first when the tomatoes

675
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 6: are good now in the summer, and they might come

676
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 6: to the restaurant on the weekend. But ultimately our bread

677
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 6: and butter is going to be our regular return customers

678
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 6: who have a relationship with the restaurant, And I don't

679
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 6: want to ostracize them because they're the people who are

680
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 6: going to keep us here for a decade, as opposed

681
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 6: to the people who are going to make us famous

682
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 6: in the moment, drive out our regular customers, and then

683
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 6: move on to the next trendy thing. So for us,

684
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 6: trends are a business killer. You can get short, short

685
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 6: success from a trend, but if you want to be

686
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,959
Speaker 6: here for a long time and build a customer base

687
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 6: that's dedicated, you have to have an authentic relationship with

688
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 6: those people. And that has to mean that whatever your

689
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 6: product is, they are offically connecting with it because of

690
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 6: their own desires, not because I'm forcing them to have

691
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 6: an entertainment moment with our product by you know, creating

692
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 6: a TikTok video that goes viral.

693
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: So that's yeah, Well, speaking of the moment, we're recording

694
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: this on July eighth, and we still don't really know

695
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: what's happening with the tariffs. But I imagine in the

696
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: course of building out a pizzeria, you're probably ordering equipment

697
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 2: from various places, giant pizza ovens and all that. Have

698
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 2: you been impacted at all by the tariffs.

699
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 6: Yet very little. It's still very confusing from my vantage

700
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 6: point as to what is happening or what is supposed

701
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 6: to come down the road. And we were certainly anticipating,

702
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 6: you know, our ovens are from Germany are you know,

703
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 6: a variety of pieces of equipment are coming from international places,

704
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 6: but I haven't seen any major increases. We did have

705
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 6: some shipping increase. Is we make these coffee cans that

706
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 6: we serve our rust to coffee and that come from China,

707
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 6: there was a massive tariff increase on our shipping. That's

708
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 6: part of the process. But in terms of, you know,

709
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 6: the pizzeria equipment, we haven't seen it. Really. I'm anticipating

710
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 6: that potentially we're talking about a ten percent EU tariff

711
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 6: they said, floating around. I just don't know what that means.

712
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 6: And if there's anticipatory price increases from the vendors who

713
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 6: are in Italy selling us tomatoes or who are in

714
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 6: a variety of other places in Europe where we buy

715
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 6: some of our moral luxurious ingredients, we just haven't seen

716
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 6: those yet. I am in still anticipating that as a

717
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 6: possibility for pizza because we need to anticipate that, and

718
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 6: we are certainly testing tomatoes, California tomatoes to see if

719
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 6: we can find something comparable, because the you know, Sammrazano's

720
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 6: are truly the best and they do grow in California.

721
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 6: But it's just a little bit of a different thing.

722
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 6: So we are anticipating the need to work with California tomatoes,

723
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 6: but so far have not seen anything really in terms

724
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 6: of tariffs increases reaching us on this side.

725
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 5: I just have one last question, and it gets back

726
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 5: to Los Angeles. It feels like major American cities are

727
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 5: always sort of dying and thriving at the same time.

728
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 5: And obviously, yeah, Los Angeles, you know, you hear certainly

729
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 5: hear about it in New York and Chicago, and Los

730
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 5: Angeles has going through a lot or the fires, the

731
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 5: recent ice raids and riots, and then you know, the

732
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 5: people people, And I mentioned, you know, because it was

733
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 5: in this article. I just looked up and reminded me.

734
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,959
Speaker 5: You know, people are talking about Hollywood, could it become

735
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 5: the next Detroit in terms of that industry gutting out.

736
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 5: On the other hand, it's probably the nicest climate in

737
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 5: the entire world, and people are always going to want

738
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 5: to live in southern California. How do you feel about

739
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 5: doing business in Los Angeles right now?

740
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 6: Is the city It's excruciating. The city is, especially in

741
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 6: the in the food business, is very very much struggling.

742
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 6: I've never ever seen so many closures of restaurants, good

743
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 6: ones that deserve to be open in my time, you know,

744
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 6: let alone being a consumer, but being in the business,

745
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 6: I think that there's a lot, an endless list of

746
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 6: factors that make Los Angeles complicated. It's expanse the reliance

747
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 6: on Hollywood as a major motivator or a major provider

748
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 6: for a large number of people in terms of income,

749
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 6: and with that whole market shrinking, you know, you do

750
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 6: see a lot less business happening in Hollywood proper. That said,

751
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 6: it's a four hundred square miles city, you have. You know,

752
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 6: where we are is about fifteen minutes from downtown, where

753
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 6: some of the protests were happening, and a lot of

754
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 6: that stuff. But I don't see anything, you know, it's

755
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 6: just a regular, small, small neighborhood experience over here. And

756
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 6: you're really kind of like these neighborhoods have a very distinctly,

757
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 6: you know, unique way of behaving. So as Hollywood is

758
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 6: sort of shrinking down and moving east and west, you

759
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 6: see a lot of development, and then you also see

760
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 6: a lot of gentrification protests, You see a lot of

761
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 6: things where folks are. There's a lot of expansion and

762
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 6: contraction in this really wide city. Part of it is

763
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 6: exciting because it's a dynamic, but it's also just makes

764
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 6: things very difficult because the city doesn't really have its

765
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 6: own identity. The identity is defined by the neighborhood. So

766
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 6: as downtown and Hollywood are contracting, you know, Highland Park

767
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 6: and glass El Park, and this area of Glendale kind

768
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 6: of on the east side is expanding. Silver Lake and

769
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 6: Echo Park and Los Pelas are kind of becoming like

770
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 6: Hollywood once was and getting a little bit more corporate

771
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 6: businesses in there, and they're all looking to capitalize on

772
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 6: the growth of these neighborhoods. It's it's a very unique place,

773
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 6: but it's very hard to work here. And you get

774
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 6: a lot for choosing to be here and operating here

775
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 6: and living here, but you're also very much behind the

776
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 6: eight ball.

777
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: I got to ask one more question, but why is

778
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: a San Marzano tomato grown in California considered subpar to

779
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: San Marzano tomato grown in Italy.

780
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 6: I wouldn't say subpar. I wouldn't say subpar. The climate

781
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 6: is vaguely different, slightly different, so you end up with

782
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,479
Speaker 6: a little bit of different result from what we've seen

783
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 6: the San Marzano's from Italy end up being a little

784
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 6: bit sweeter, a little bit more robust, and maybe that

785
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 6: has to do with even more direct sunlight, more volcanic soil.

786
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 6: Who knows. There's a variety of different, different reasons why

787
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 6: the microclimates creates slightly different and results. It's just like wine.

788
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 6: It's sort of like, you know, you can grow the

789
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 6: same grape in southern France and in northern California and

790
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 6: end up with a distinctly different flavor based on the microclimate,

791
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 6: the soil in the environment. So it's a it may

792
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 6: just be our own projection, but we're working to try

793
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 6: and find whatever the best possible option is for us.

794
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 5: All right, just a couple of seconds left. Give us

795
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 5: one sandwich recommendation here on the East Coast that we

796
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 5: should try.

797
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 6: Well, I would say, oh that's really hard. I mean's

798
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 6: Defante is in Brooklyn is a special spot. But you know,

799
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 6: the deli that I grew up with is in Milburn,

800
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 6: New Jersey. It's the Melbourne Deli and has now become

801
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 6: kind of like a famous deli somehow, which is crazy.

802
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 5: I'll check it out.

803
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, well, Andy, thank you so much for

804
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: coming on odd lots. We're going to have to leave

805
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: it there, but it was really fun to talk about

806
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 2: the baking business here.

807
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was great, Thanks so much, Andrew.

808
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 6: No, it's my pleasure.

809
00:43:44,960 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: Thanks guys, Joe. Have you ever been to.

810
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 3: It's in Soho.

811
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: It used to be literally across the street from where

812
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: I lived. Best sandwiches ever. It blew my mind the

813
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 2: first time I went there. They've expanded since then. The

814
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: expanded store is not so.

815
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 4: Good, you know.

816
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 5: A shout out to our producer Dash, because didn't he

817
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 5: like he did the tour where he tried every one

818
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 5: of the hundred best sandwiches in New York. We got

819
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 5: to get him on interview Dash at some point about

820
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 5: New York City.

821
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 3: That'd be fun.

822
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.

823
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: But on a more serious note, there was lots of

824
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: interesting stuff to pull out from there. But one of

825
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 2: the things I'm thinking about, and this kind of came

826
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: up in our Chicken series when we talked to the DOJ,

827
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: But it's that idea of the tyranny of the middle man, right,

828
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: and this idea that Okay, obviously you're buying flour from

829
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 2: a flower producer, but then in between the producer and

830
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: getting to you, there's the distributor which is charging a markup.

831
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: And then when you're setting up a new business nowadays

832
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 2: you have to have like basically a red tape su

833
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: to walk you through. That's another middle man. And then

834
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: the shipping costs going up, I mean shipping not necessarily

835
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: a middle man, but certainly the middle of the process.

836
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: It seems like that's where the cost pressures are really

837
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: coming in.

838
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 5: No, I think all that's super interesting. Also this idea

839
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 5: that like you could have an uber for distribution, but

840
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 5: then you lose that the bread bus, but then you

841
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 5: lose that personal relationship and if that's important because you

842
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 5: need to hear feedback from the chef at that restaurant,

843
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 5: then you don't get it if you don't own the distribution.

844
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 5: And then just you know, La itself we should do

845
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 5: at some point, we got to go back to La

846
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 5: because it does I mean incredible place, but incredibly number

847
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 5: of like sort of ranching things going on in that city.

848
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 5: And opening a restaurant, as you mentioned, sort of seems

849
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 5: crazy and the easiest of times, Like I feel like

850
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 5: you have to have a little bit of brain damage

851
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 5: to do that, and then to do it and there's

852
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 5: a lot there that was very interesting.

853
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: I want to learn more about the pizza business as well.

854
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: We're in New York.

855
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 3: We should do pizza.

856
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 5: We're gonna do a pizza episode.

857
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 3: All right, shall we leave it there.

858
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 5: Let's leave it there.

859
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: This has been another episode of the Odd Lots podcast.

860
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 2: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy.

861
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 5: Alloway and I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at

862
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 5: the Stalwart. Follow our producers Kerman Rodriguez at Kerman armand

863
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 5: dash albin At at Dashbot and Kilbrooks at Kilbrooks. And

864
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 5: from our Odd Lots content. Go to Bloomberg dot com

865
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 5: slash odd Lots, where you have a daily newsletter and

866
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 5: all of our episodes, and you can chet about these

867
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 5: topics twenty four to seven in our discord discord dot

868
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 5: gg slash oddlines.

869
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: And if you enjoy odd Lots, if you like it

870
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: when we talk about baked goods, then please leave us

871
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember,

872
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to

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00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 2: all of our episodes absolutely at free. All you need

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00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: to do is find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts

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00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 2: and follow the instructions there.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening,