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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I heart radio.

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Speaker 1: What should what can machines do? The theory has been

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Speaker 1: around for a long time. What wasn't really there was

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Speaker 1: the computing power to actually make it real. A couple

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Speaker 1: of us met debugging video games. The reason that we

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Speaker 1: started the companies because we were unemployable. You know, we

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Speaker 1: were twenty and we thought we were smarter than anybody,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't realize we had a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: to learn, so we just figured we'd give it a go.

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Speaker 1: I am Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic Stories

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Speaker 1: from the Frontiers and Marketing, where we explore the impact

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Speaker 1: of great marketing and how it's developed today. We have

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Speaker 1: someone who's been through many pieces of the marketing puzzle himself.

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Speaker 1: He's the VP and CEO of IPG, Philippe Brokalski, believe

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Speaker 1: embodies the modern model of marketing. Speaks three languages, born

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Speaker 1: and raised outside the US, but he's also fluent in

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Speaker 1: data communications, traditional advertising. He speaks tech, brand position and

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Speaker 1: communications as well. He started a while ago as an

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Speaker 1: AI pioneer and then came to advertising. Like Maurice Levitt publicists.

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Speaker 1: He has an iconic story of personal corporate bravery. His

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Speaker 1: judgment and insights have defined his career, and his inner

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Speaker 1: personal skills have helped build and support an extraordinary management

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Speaker 1: team at IPG. And he and I have a special bot.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure he doesn't know about I'm a preacher's kid.

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Speaker 1: He's a preacher's husband. Philippe. Welcome, Thank you boy. If

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Speaker 1: anybody could see me, I'm blushing. We have lots to

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Speaker 1: cover day, but before we do, I want to dig

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Speaker 1: into you in sixty seconds. Ready? Yep? You prefer cats

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Speaker 1: or dogs? Dogs? Twitter? Instagram, Instagram, New York City, Mexico City.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a tough one. My hometown, but New York City.

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Speaker 1: I've been here a long time. Call or text, text

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Speaker 1: because I got kids at an age where that's actually

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Speaker 1: the only way they respond to you. Early riser or

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Speaker 1: night out. I'm a night owloch or caviar. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it's about to get harder. Secret talent can nap on

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Speaker 1: a dime anywhere, at any time. Smartest person you know

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Speaker 1: the preacher you mentioned though, and that I'm married to

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Speaker 1: childhood hero Nelson Mandela. First job making beds at the

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Speaker 1: Sir Francis Drake hotel, historical libel abe Lincoln was pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Who would play you in a movie? I'd played George Stephanopolis,

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Speaker 1: or so I've been told. So I said, there's probably

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Speaker 1: a similarity. The proudest personal achievement probably my kids. What's

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Speaker 1: your favorite life scream flavor? Salted caramel? What did you

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Speaker 1: want to be a new growing up professional soccer? Blob

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Speaker 1: favorite smell? I've never been asked that Mexican food best

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Speaker 1: live concert. Well, my first live concert early mid seventies

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Speaker 1: is the Doobie Brothers. Let's Jump in. Okay. When Michael Roth,

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Speaker 1: who had a full career in corporate America, moved into

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Speaker 1: the CEO of job at IPG with no advertising experience,

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Speaker 1: it's been said you were the one who helped him

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Speaker 1: navigate and understand the advertising business that accurate. It was

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Speaker 1: an interesting opportunity where I think that the company needed

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Speaker 1: somebody who had his skills. There was a moment right

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Speaker 1: at the beginning when we'd brought some management consultancy and

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Speaker 1: to take a look at what was going on inside

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Speaker 1: the company, and Michael said, we need somebody writing shotgun

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Speaker 1: with them who really knows the business. So he gave

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Speaker 1: me that opportunity, and then that's how we got to

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Speaker 1: know one another. And we've been working together now for

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Speaker 1: seventeen years. I've jumped in the businesses. I knew nothing

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Speaker 1: about it, and there was always worked out pretty well.

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Speaker 1: It did work out pretty well, but there was always

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Speaker 1: somebody who did help me go oh no, no, let

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Speaker 1: me explain through put to you at the theme park

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Speaker 1: business or whatever it was. Clearly you have been that person.

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Speaker 1: How do you say, Okay, these are the first ten

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Speaker 1: things AUTO talk to you about and bring you up

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Speaker 1: to speed on. I don't know that you actually do

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Speaker 1: it quite in a way that's that methodical and systematic.

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Speaker 1: I think you kind of get thrown into the deep

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Speaker 1: end of the pool, right, and so you sort them

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Speaker 1: with a combination of here's a rank order of what

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Speaker 1: you need to understand to get oriented in this world,

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Speaker 1: and here's the thing that just landed on our lap

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Speaker 1: today that needs to get resolved, and let's just get

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Speaker 1: after what we need to understand so we can clear

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Speaker 1: this one off the plate. And a business like ours,

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Speaker 1: so much of it is the personalities and the talent.

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Speaker 1: It's as much about figuring out who are these people,

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Speaker 1: what motivates them, how are we going to get them

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Speaker 1: focused and working as a team. And then what's going

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Speaker 1: on at a macrobe business trend level was an organic process.

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Speaker 1: So over the last two years or more, in the

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Speaker 1: vast majority of quarters, i PG has outperformed the overall

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Speaker 1: In this three in organic revenue growth was having a

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Speaker 1: CEO who was an exceptional business person but fresh to

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Speaker 1: the business. A part of the secret sauce for you. Sure,

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Speaker 1: We've spent a bunch of years now differentiating ourselves in

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Speaker 1: a couple of ways. One is investments in the talent

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Speaker 1: and not making the story about us, but making it

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Speaker 1: about how we support and give the right kind of

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Speaker 1: stage to the agency brands. Then how we get them

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Speaker 1: to work together, how we orchestrate a way of working

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Speaker 1: where you get the most because you're getting the right answers,

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Speaker 1: not the silo driven answers. And then last the combination

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Speaker 1: of starting to stir in data science, that rigor of

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Speaker 1: tech with the heart of and the craft of traditional advertising.

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Speaker 1: I want to dig into those, but before we get

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Speaker 1: into that business part, I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: the beginning. I want to get some context on you.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned you were born in Mexico, said in the sixties,

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Speaker 1: tell us about your family and paint a picture of

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Speaker 1: your childhood and Mexico City in that era, It's always

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Speaker 1: been a big city, so I guess I'm a big

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Speaker 1: city kid. I like being in a place where there's

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Speaker 1: always something going on. I'm kind of a mutt, so

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Speaker 1: I've got a lot of European and some Latin American.

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Speaker 1: I'm an immigrant who didn't speak English when we moved

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Speaker 1: here as a kid. But I was actually already a

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Speaker 1: US citizen because my mom's grandfather left Romania in the

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Speaker 1: late eighteen nineties, moved to the US and was a

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Speaker 1: railroad engineer. All his kids were born to US, were

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Speaker 1: born American citizens, ended up in San Francisco when the

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Speaker 1: Big Quake kid and his wife took them all back

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Speaker 1: to Romania Wow in like nineteen o nine or something.

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Speaker 1: My mom did some of her growing up in New York.

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Speaker 1: My parents actually met here, and my dad just lived

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Speaker 1: in a bunch of places growing up because his dad's

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Speaker 1: business took him to most of Latin America. My dad

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Speaker 1: actually spent his high school years in Cuba pre the Revolution.

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Speaker 1: When did you leave Mexico? That was about eight in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy and you moved to San Francisco. What did

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Speaker 1: you bring from Mexico with you? I mean Mexico in

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Speaker 1: that era had that very robust creative scene there. Did

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Speaker 1: that affect you in any way? Did it come with you?

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Speaker 1: It was an interesting mix. There's a lot of creativity.

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Speaker 1: There was great architecture going on at the time. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of sort of social stuff going on.

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Speaker 1: I mean there was the political scene was a version

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Speaker 1: of stuff that you were seeing in this country in

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Speaker 1: the sixties. There's a certain kind of curiosity, restlessness. You're

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Speaker 1: open to new ideas. I think the expectation is that

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Speaker 1: life is going to be growing interesting stuff your way.

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Speaker 1: You go to San Francisco, you wind up at Harvard.

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Speaker 1: Why Harvard? It was curiosity. I had no experience and

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Speaker 1: no reference points that would have led me to believe

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Speaker 1: that it was going to be good, bad, or in

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Speaker 1: different It was just sort of a if I don't

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Speaker 1: try it, I'll always ask myself why I didn't try it.

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Speaker 1: I'll give it a go. And what you major in

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Speaker 1: comparative literature and linguistics, that's a good preparation for AI.

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Speaker 1: I paid my way through school by programming computers. What

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Speaker 1: do you think college did for you? How did you change?

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Speaker 1: It was less about the formal classroom part of it

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Speaker 1: and more about figure out who you are and figure

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Speaker 1: out how to fit for yourself and just figure out

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Speaker 1: what really interests you. You leave school, you were on

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Speaker 1: a team that built and ultimately sold an artificial intelligence

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Speaker 1: company and Apple. What is interesting about this is this

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Speaker 1: was a while ago. This was really early. I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure most people you said I I knew what

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Speaker 1: you were talking about at that moment. What was your

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Speaker 1: role on the team and what did you see in

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Speaker 1: a I at that moment. A lot of the ideas

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Speaker 1: and a lot of for instances, what should what can

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Speaker 1: machines do? The theory has been around for a long time.

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Speaker 1: What wasn't really there was the computing power to actually

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Speaker 1: make it real. The ideas were really just cognitive science.

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Speaker 1: What's your brain do? How does it work? Why can

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Speaker 1: a computer do or not do? Some of those things.

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Speaker 1: A couple of us met debugging video games got really

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Speaker 1: interested in some stuff that Alan Kay was doing with

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Speaker 1: small talk at the time. The reason that we started

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Speaker 1: the companies because we were unemployable. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: twenty and We thought we were smart than anybody, and

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Speaker 1: we didn't realize we had a lot of stuff to learn.

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Speaker 1: So we just figured we'd give it a go. And

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Speaker 1: how did you sell it? Apple? We build programming languages

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Speaker 1: and tools for the very early Macintosh is and eventually

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Speaker 1: we wanted to use the tools to build smart applications,

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Speaker 1: and we could never quite get out of our own way.

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Speaker 1: So we put a product into market, and then we

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Speaker 1: were learning that there were lots of issues around, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, customer service and keeping our name out all

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Speaker 1: those things. Right, So there were four of us and

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Speaker 1: we kept at it for a while, four or five years,

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Speaker 1: trying to do it ourselves. And you know, we had

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Speaker 1: a really nice, niche company. But eventually a couple of

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Speaker 1: folks came calling, and I think we all kind of

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Speaker 1: burnt out a little on the work and maybe even

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Speaker 1: on each other as partners, and so it was the

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Speaker 1: right time. So you go from a high to advertising.

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? What was the catalyst? I wasn't

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Speaker 1: sure if I wanted to be a tech guy forever

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Speaker 1: and at the software company, I'd be in the interface

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Speaker 1: to the rest of the world. So I've done all

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Speaker 1: of our outreach, I've written business plans, I've dealt with

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Speaker 1: the public as it were, helped us figure out and

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Speaker 1: pick our design firm and do our advertising and ad

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Speaker 1: agencies seemed like a place where I could get exposure

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Speaker 1: to lots of other industries. So there was a very

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Speaker 1: creative agency in New York at the time called Levine

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Speaker 1: Huntley Schmitten Beaver. So I met a couple of the

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Speaker 1: guys who ran it, and they had a tech encounter

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Speaker 1: two and they were interested in seeing if we could

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Speaker 1: do something together. And I was interested in learning about

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Speaker 1: the beer account they had, in the car account they had,

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Speaker 1: and so I did business development for them. So the

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Speaker 1: bug bit you, yeah, just a bit. By ninety one,

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Speaker 1: you were the your vice president of corporate communications for

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Speaker 1: B B d O worldwide and then you went to

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Speaker 1: Win and R I mean all big names, big jobs.

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Speaker 1: The Internet was just emerging them. Did you feel the

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Speaker 1: impact right away of the Internet on the advertising business

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Speaker 1: or did you foresee the impact on advertising coming from tech.

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Speaker 1: I may have had the advantage of having more exposure

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Speaker 1: to it than a lot of folks in the business

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Speaker 1: at B Video, where I got to work with Alan

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Speaker 1: Rosenshein and Phil Dusonberry, who were real kind of legends

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Speaker 1: in the business. It was fun to have them say

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Speaker 1: what is this thing? Which we do about it? You

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Speaker 1: could see that it was going to have a really

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Speaker 1: lasting impact. But even when you can see the wave

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Speaker 1: and you think it's coming at speed, it takes a

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Speaker 1: certain amount of time to actually kind of break on

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Speaker 1: the shore. Right, some people are welcoming and some people

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Speaker 1: are kind of hoping that you just go away and

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Speaker 1: leave alone. I was at a o L in that period.

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Speaker 1: From our side, it didn't look like what happened was

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Speaker 1: going to happen. We were just form can't we get

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Speaker 1: some money for advertising? And I remember meeting with one

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Speaker 1: of the top one or two banks in America's CEO

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Speaker 1: and I go, you need to be on the internet,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, I don't know, We're not sure we

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Speaker 1: need to be on the internet. This was the late

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Speaker 1: nineties by then, and the same period you were in advertising,

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Speaker 1: and why and are what was on the other side

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Speaker 1: of it, What was the discussion inside the agencies and

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Speaker 1: who are the people pushing back? The folks who have

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Speaker 1: the most to protect, the most to lose will invariably

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Speaker 1: have the hardest time coming to grips with the reality

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Speaker 1: folks who are at a point in their journey career wise,

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Speaker 1: they'd rather hold on for just a little longer and

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Speaker 1: not have to either admit they don't understand something or

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Speaker 1: dramatically changed their behavior. It was definitely easily fifty fifty

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Speaker 1: if not, you know more, they either didn't want to

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Speaker 1: hear it, or they only wanted to hear it if

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Speaker 1: you told them that they were going to get to

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Speaker 1: control it, that once you helped them solve it, it

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Speaker 1: was gonna end up in their fiefdom, in their P

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Speaker 1: and L. So now we get the I p G.

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Speaker 1: Why did you make that jump? I had been at

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Speaker 1: one and R when it was acquired by w PP.

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Speaker 1: I had chosen not to stay at w PP, and

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Speaker 1: so there were a group of senior folks who left

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Speaker 1: when the merger took place. The IPG was kind of

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Speaker 1: a famous name, you know, stable of companies, many of

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Speaker 1: them really well known that had fallen on some hard times,

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Speaker 1: and so that seemed interesting from the outside looking in,

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Speaker 1: it was like, okay, they've got to be kind of

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Speaker 1: getting to the point where if you show up you

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Speaker 1: could help turn it around and it took a little

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Speaker 1: while longer than that for it to find bottom. What

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Speaker 1: did you learn from B, B, D, O, Y, and

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Speaker 1: R even your AI venture that gave you something unique

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Speaker 1: fry PG. It's like a mosaic, it's a combination of things.

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Speaker 1: So the tech thing has been sort of underlying for

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Speaker 1: a long time, working at Levine Huntley, which was a

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Speaker 1: creative boutique agency, and B Video, which was a big

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Speaker 1: global network that pride itself where the usp was creativity.

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Speaker 1: So I kind of had that piece from those guys.

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Speaker 1: Whiner was early in the integration game, and so they

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Speaker 1: talked a lot about trying to get the various pieces

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Speaker 1: of this emerging marketing puzzle to work together. What was

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Speaker 1: great about it was just learning how the various pieces worked,

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Speaker 1: what a direct agency did, what a media department was

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Speaker 1: all about, how you made money on PR That gave

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Speaker 1: me this breadth of exposure to so many fat sets

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Speaker 1: of the industry. There's a moment in time when you

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Speaker 1: can start pulling them together and solve some more complicated

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Speaker 1: kinds of problems. So let's talk about crises for minute.

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Speaker 1: We started at the beginning and I said, you've got

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Speaker 1: a story. One of those legendary stories of somebody who

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Speaker 1: had to go, I gotta go do this. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how this is going to turn out, but this

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Speaker 1: is the right thing to do in a board meeting.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell that story? Michael and I and then

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Speaker 1: Frank are a longtime CFO partner, Frank Mergantaller all kind

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Speaker 1: of came in through different doors within the space of

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Speaker 1: about a year a year and a half, none of

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Speaker 1: us having known one another. And um in those early

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Speaker 1: days when you had a big company that had been

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Speaker 1: put together through a lot a lot of acquisitions, none

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Speaker 1: of them particularly well integrated, and then just prior to

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Speaker 1: a financial crisis, when it all hit the fan, it

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Speaker 1: got pretty messy and pretty complicated for a while. In

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Speaker 1: that moment of crisis, it was just sort of people

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Speaker 1: pushing other people out of the way to get to

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Speaker 1: life raft. And so there was a board meeting at

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Speaker 1: which Michael was talking to our board about many of

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Speaker 1: the problems that the business had, and I end up

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Speaker 1: getting a call from a journalist in which some of

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Speaker 1: what was actually being discussed in that room. So Michael

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Speaker 1: and I have this funny moment where I walk into

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Speaker 1: the boardroom to tell them about stuff that's happening in

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Speaker 1: the boardroom. So I think for both of us it

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Speaker 1: was indicative of how crazy things were at this company.

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Speaker 1: Stories I've heard is that you got a lot of

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Speaker 1: credit for being willing to walk in and say when

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Speaker 1: it stopped, there's something going on you don't know about.

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Speaker 1: I've never quite heard that happening before in real time,

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Speaker 1: but certainly major mark. Just hold on a second, because

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Speaker 1: we've got so much more to talk about. We'll be

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Speaker 1: back after a quick break. Welcome back to Math and Magic.

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Speaker 1: You have had the top communications job, the chief strategy

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Speaker 1: and talent officer, and through some other jobs to finally

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Speaker 1: the the CEO of the company. I'd like to talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the big marks you've made. I see

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Speaker 1: two real key ones. One is data, digital and tech,

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Speaker 1: and the other quite different is diversity and talent development.

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Speaker 1: And I'd like to start with data. You embedded in

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Speaker 1: all areas of IPG, this sort of tech and digital

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Speaker 1: wherewithal and of course the two point three billion dollar

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Speaker 1: purchase of the data marketing service Axiom. How did all

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Speaker 1: this fundamentally change the capabilities of IPG and differentiate it.

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Speaker 1: I think when you started to see technology accelerate in

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Speaker 1: the ways in which people behave, the way in which

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Speaker 1: they take information on board, the way in which they

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Speaker 1: share information, the way in which they literally just navigate

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Speaker 1: the world. It became really clear that we needed expertise

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Speaker 1: in that. There was this funny kind of bifurcation that

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Speaker 1: happened in the sector where some of our competitors went

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Speaker 1: out and started buying that. And the question that we

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Speaker 1: kind of came do was, if you buy it and

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Speaker 1: it sits in its own silo and it's kept away

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Speaker 1: from the rest of your world, what do you really

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Speaker 1: get for it? And then on top of that, you're

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Speaker 1: paying a multiple for a very fungible set of assets.

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Speaker 1: So we tried to bootstrap as much of that as

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Speaker 1: we could inside of the various companies. So we would

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Speaker 1: sit with agency leaders and say, if these are the

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Speaker 1: trends that we think are coming, then what are you

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Speaker 1: going to do to kind of evolve your offerings so

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Speaker 1: that you can stay relevant in that world? And then

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Speaker 1: what do we need to get you in the way

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Speaker 1: of resources. We actually kind of built a lot of

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Speaker 1: it over time, which was different than most of our competitors,

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Speaker 1: and then as it's picked up speed and the complexity

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Speaker 1: has grown. We've built a programmatic business inside the company.

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Speaker 1: So you did that inside the company, how did you

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Speaker 1: work with the other side of it by hard or

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Speaker 1: other media companies folks like us. It's the combination of

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Speaker 1: the data, the tech, the platform. Understanding where that is

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Speaker 1: going is key and sorting out how you incorporate that

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Speaker 1: and marry that up to the calm side and the

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Speaker 1: craft side of the business. But then you know it's

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Speaker 1: all clearly going to come together, and so finding partners

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Speaker 1: who are also looking to take they're part of the

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Speaker 1: ecosystem and evolve it or enhance it. Trying to be

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Speaker 1: clear with people about what you're trying to accomplish and

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Speaker 1: hearing what they've got to say, and then just trying

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Speaker 1: stuff out. There's a lot of test to learn, a

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Speaker 1: lot of not get it right or being smart about

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Speaker 1: where the opportunities right for a particular client or for

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Speaker 1: one of our agencies where they're going to be able

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Speaker 1: to lean in and partner up with a media owner

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Speaker 1: or a technology company. You had one big giant there,

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Speaker 1: the axiom why did you need it and how has

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Speaker 1: it helped you? You kind of need it because without

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Speaker 1: expertise and breadth in whether it's the data asset or

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Speaker 1: whether it's the data management business. I just think it's

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Speaker 1: harder to figure out how you evolve fast enough or

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Speaker 1: compete in the world we're in. We used to talk

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Speaker 1: about the demographics of an individual or the media behavior

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Speaker 1: of the individual, but I think at this point all

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Speaker 1: behavior is going to be mediated by some kind of

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Speaker 1: a device. It's gonna mean that everything about people's lives

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Speaker 1: is addressable. The upside of that is, okay, I can

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Speaker 1: make it so that things are more relevant for them,

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Speaker 1: so that things are more valuable to them. The downside,

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Speaker 1: which we see and hear a lot about, which is

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Speaker 1: the surveillance part of it or just the creepy part

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Speaker 1: of it. And so if you're not really really expert

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Speaker 1: in and you can't take data and make it both

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Speaker 1: a differentiator and something that gives you the credibility to

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Speaker 1: put you kind of on the right side of that divide,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you've got a terrific future as a business.

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Speaker 1: So as important as dat has ben for right p G,

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Speaker 1: it might be argued that your diversity and inclusion drive

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Speaker 1: has been even more powerful. Talk about how you see

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Speaker 1: the power of diversity in an organization. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: big focus of ours, going back a long long time,

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Speaker 1: coming from an industry not ours, Michael sort of saw

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Speaker 1: that marketing advertising was behind. I'm kind of a mutton.

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Speaker 1: So if you're used to being the mishmash of perspectives, worldviews, languages, whatever,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna just bring different kinds of perspectives to any

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Speaker 1: kind of problem. For us, it is a marriage of

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Speaker 1: the tech side of the business and then the people's side,

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Speaker 1: which is the ideas and how powerful the ideas are

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Speaker 1: and the creative product. And in that regard, if everybody

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Speaker 1: is the same, which you're gonna get is clearly not

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Speaker 1: going to be as good as if you had a

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Speaker 1: culture where you're more welcoming of our very broad range

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Speaker 1: of backgrounds and experience. We still probably the only company

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Speaker 1: in our direct set that compensates exacts. Part of your

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Speaker 1: annual instead of compensation is connected to how you're doing

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Speaker 1: on what we've collectively identified as some of our d

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Speaker 1: n I aspirations and goals. So Darrellly, Eileen, Karenen, Lynn Lewis,

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Speaker 1: many others, you've got the superstar group of executives. How

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Speaker 1: do you build a culture which allows them to thrive

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Speaker 1: and builds the next generation of them. It's really obvious stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's say what you mean. Encourage people to know that

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Speaker 1: they can speak their mind, and that's not an issue.

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Speaker 1: If you say you're gonna do something, do something. We're

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Speaker 1: very flat as an organization. A lot of our exacts

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Speaker 1: appreciate that they can walk into our offices. So we

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about silos, but silos are falling

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Speaker 1: and advertising, as there are in every business. How are

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Speaker 1: you breaking down silos to make that a reality? I

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Speaker 1: mean at humility goes along ways, right, So you kind

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Speaker 1: of say to yourself, can you both model behavior and

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Speaker 1: ask people to acknowledge. Nobody's going to have all the answers,

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Speaker 1: so just raise your hand and say, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: What we're solving for is complicated. So if it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a team sport on any given day, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be configuring that team in a way that's different.

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Speaker 1: So for certain kinds of engagements, somebody's gonna lead, and

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Speaker 1: for others, that person or that organization is going to

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Speaker 1: sit in the second chair of the third chair. All

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Speaker 1: of us are really good at two or three things.

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Speaker 1: But everybody in this world says, oh I can do

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Speaker 1: eight things, I can do ten things. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to either leave, you know, money on the table or

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Speaker 1: be perceived of as not the best at even some

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Speaker 1: of the most cutting edge stuff. And so, what are

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Speaker 1: the three things you guys are really good at? And

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Speaker 1: those are the ones that we're going to then make

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Speaker 1: sure that you, as an organization, get pulled in on

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Speaker 1: every opportunity to bring those to the table human beings

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Speaker 1: or human beings. So if you encourage them and acknowledge

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Speaker 1: their contributions around the things that really are good at,

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Speaker 1: that helps a long ways. How you pay people helps

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Speaker 1: in the same way that around D and I, we

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Speaker 1: tie instead of compensation to that, we tie a meaningful

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Speaker 1: amount of incent of compensation too what we refer to

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Speaker 1: as collaboration. And it gets people's attention when you're thoughtful

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00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: and rigorous about the end of the year, saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: here's how you guys did on these things, and we'll

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00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: sit with you and take you through where we thought

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Speaker 1: you were terrific and where maybe you didn't play so

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00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: nicely with the other children, and maybe even where that

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00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: is going to cost you in your organization some money.

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Speaker 1: What advice would you give someone who wants to wind

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Speaker 1: up in the advertising business where you are somebody on

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Speaker 1: the way up. I don't know that I set out

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Speaker 1: with a very specific plan. It wasn't I'm going to

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00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: get from here to there. It was I'm gonna do

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00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: things that are interesting, saw problems. If some things are

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00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: more interesting than others, I'm gonna ask to do more

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00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: of those kinds of things. Getting things done and not

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00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: sweating too much what you're being called on a given day,

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Speaker 1: whether it's from a title perspective or sharing the credit

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Speaker 1: or not, I think helps a lot. The one that

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Speaker 1: I think becomes more apparent as you get further along

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Speaker 1: in your career is working with people who you respect

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Speaker 1: in an organization where there's commitment to behaving in a

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00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: certain way and integrity, and where you're like, I feel

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00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: good about who I'm working with. That's a lot more

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Speaker 1: powerful than people usually realize. So let's take the advice

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Speaker 1: to IPG. You've got a lot of people working there,

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00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands. Someone they're listening to this

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Speaker 1: wants to make their mark on advertising within the career

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Speaker 1: at IPG. What advice. Do you give them, raise your hand,

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Speaker 1: ask questions, get help when you need it. Figure out

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00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: who can make you better, as in, teach you some

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Speaker 1: stuff you don't know. Some of them with a little

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00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: more burience will help you look around a corner. Understanding

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00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 1: where and how tech is impacting business. You would definitely

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00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: want to focus on that. It helps to understand where

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00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: and how any business actually makes money. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people, whether you're running a client

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00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: engagement or whether you're a creative person, do you get

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Speaker 1: deep enough into how the gears connect to the gears

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Speaker 1: around what's really driving the business. So here's our last

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Speaker 1: advice question. What advice would you give your twenty one

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Speaker 1: year old self. The best advice I got when I

477
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: was in my twenties was to sort of stop trying

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00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: to kind of boil the ocean and get it all

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00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: done in one go, and to focus on two or

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00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: three big things that you would do in a given

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00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: twelve month period. And the other great advice I got,

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Speaker 1: probably in my early thirties is to try and carve

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00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: out time to step away for long enough to reflect,

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00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: to actually think and figure out some of the bigger

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Speaker 1: cross currents as we wrap up, we always end the

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Speaker 1: Math and Match with a shout out. You've seen the

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00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: great analytical people, You've seen the great creatives up close.

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00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: You're a history buff. You've read about him. Who gets

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Speaker 1: your shout out as the most analytical marketer or business person?

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00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: The math person, Alan Turing. I mean, that's a pretty

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00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: darn good one. It's the first time someone said that.

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Speaker 1: So let's go to the creative side. Who's the greatest

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Speaker 1: creative the magician. I guess you'd probably go, you know,

494
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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs. He's been mentioned before. Philip. It's been great

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Speaker 1: having you here. Congrats on all your success and thanks

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Speaker 1: for sharing the stories behind it more pleasure. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me, Thanks for listening. I'm Bob Pittman. That's it

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Speaker 1: for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math

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Speaker 1: and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This show

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00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger

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00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no

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00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: small feat. Nikki Eatre for pulling research, Bill Plax and

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00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: Michael as Are for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch,

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00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: and of course Gaile Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango, and

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Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until

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Speaker 1: next time,