WEBVTT - The Girlfriends S3/E1: Hell's Gate 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:01.639 Hey you, it's Anna here. 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:03.480 I just wanted to give you a heads up on 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.440 what to expect in this series because this story has 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.680 some pretty dark moments. It's going to include addiction, domestic 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.640 and sexual abuse, and murder, and a lot of it 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.760 takes place within the prison system. But also, like every 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.880 series of The Girlfriends, this is a story all about 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:25.040 sisterhood and solidarity. Along the way, I'm going to introduce 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.240 you to a cast of women who've been through the 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:32.559 most incredible, complex and at times even tragic experiences, but. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.200 Have managed to come out the other end. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.519 If you feel impacted by some of the themes in 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.479 this show, you can reach out to No More. There 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.560 are domestic violence charity with a lot of great resources 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.760 to help you or your loved ones. You can search 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.360 No More dot org and we've also put a link 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.600 to their website in the episode description. So do take 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.800 care and get ready for one hell of a story 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:06.400 and more than a few swear words. If you happen 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.640 to be strolling near Queens, New York in the late eighties, 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.839 you might have found yourself passing by North Shore Gymnastics. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.800 Inside there's a smell of chalk and sweat in the air. 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.279 Small feet are running across the crash mac covered floor, 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:30.200 sending echoes that bounce around the room. The room is 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.959 bustling with girls of all ages, each in a brightly 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:40.520 colored leotard straight out of an eighties workout video. Standing 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.240 at the side with a sassy little expression on her 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.440 face is a seven year old girl with a point 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:47.200 to prove. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:53.400 Kelly Harnett and only seven years old. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.160 Kelly's just been told she's not big enough to do 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.360 real gymnastics, she can only play games in the sponge 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.360 pit with the other little kids. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:03.880 Boring. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.920 This is not what I signed up for. I don't 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:13.160 want to jump into a huge like it almost looked 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.840 like a pool of spongy things and play cat and mouse. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.200 It was basically like tag. That's not gymnastics. 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:22.960 Kelly should know. 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.880 She's already built her own DIY balance beam at home, 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.720 and she's been some assaulting off the sofa for years. 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.359 So playing tag in the sponges with the babies no, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:36.040 thank you. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.560 I was getting really irritated about this. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.880 Kelly hatches a plan. Looking up into the stands, scanning 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.040 through the sea of proud parents, Kelly make sure her 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:51.040 mum is watching and then it's go time. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.760 Okay, one, two, three, and everybody would run. 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.480 Kelly, the coach and the rest of the little kids 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.800 start running towards the sponge pit, but after a few 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:08.359 conniving strides, Kelly makes a break for it. She's heading 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.160 straight to the balance beam, a proper one, which is 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.560 currently surrounded by a gaggle of big girls who do 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:16.040 real gymnastics. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:17.919 But Kelly isn't phased. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.200 I just grabbed it the balance Beme and I started 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:27.160 doing cartwheels and round offs. I remember looking up at 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.200 my mom and she was proud of me. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:30.359 She was happy. 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.840 The other moms, well they're not so happy. Actually, they're 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.000 freaking the fuck out, pounding on the glass, screaming bloody murder, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:40.560 trying to get the coach's attention. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:42.560 I felt like saying, you snitches. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.839 The snitching works. Kelly's coach turns around to see her 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.279 mid maneuver. He starts booking it across the gym. 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.560 Although he's running. I know I have a few seconds left. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:01.480 I did like a cartwheel without hands, did the smell boom, 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.600 and my feet were together, and that's always what they 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.080 mess up on. They back up a little bit. My 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.560 feet were together and he was. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.480 Like, oh my god, her, are you crazy? 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.520 What is wrong with you? You know, hurt you could 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.040 have gotten I was like, but I didn't get hurt. 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:20.800 So yes, I got in a lot of trouble for that. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.400 This memory, it means a lot to Kelly. 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.679 She'll spend her life repeating it over and over again 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.360 in her head, how proud her mother was and how 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.560 special she felt, how she stuck it to the man 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.720 and stuck the landing. At the same time, Kelly says, 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.040 she keeps doing gymnastics, and after a while her coach 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:44.799 even lets her back on the balance beam. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.960 But soon that all changes. 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.680 My mom told the head coach that she has to 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.520 take me out. She said, no, no, you can't take 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.040 her out. And my mother said, I don't have a choice, 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.719 and she said, your daughter isn't this This is the 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.000 type that goes to the Olympics. And it made my 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:13.480 mother cry because she didn't have the money. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.599 It's about thirty years later and Kelly's walking out of 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:22.640 a maximum security prison. She's in shackles with a chain 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.320 around her belly and cuffs on her wrists. She's being 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.839 escorted to a hospital appointment via a prison transfer van. 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.960 To pass the time. Kelly gets chatting to a prison guard. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.480 He started talking to me about previous jobs, because I 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.760 was talking to him about how rough it must be 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:43.520 to get stuck there and to have a home life 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.279 and whatnot. And he said, yeah, like I missed, like 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.000 the good old days. I said, what'd you do? He 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:50.760 says to me that he used to be a coach 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:55.040 at north Shore and that's where I used to go. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:02.440 And I said why really, and he goes, oh, gosh, 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.520 I'll never forget the time. And I don't know. Something 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.800 in my heart just told me, like, don't tell me. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.680 He's gonna tell my story. He said, so as the coach, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.200 I led them all to the pit, and apparently one 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.640 didn't make it with us. She ended up over by 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.680 the teenagers. I guess I missed half of her. And 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.080 then he did the air quotes routine like still a 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.480 little bit angry, and he goes, but I'll tell you 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.080 she did such a damn good job. I couldn't tell 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.760 her that though, I said, you just did, and he 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:44.080 looked at me and he was like no. And then 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:49.040 I started to cry, thinking about seven year old Kelly 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.200 and how crazy life is. It was one of those 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.360 what went wrong moments, You have a lot of them, 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:04.960 clearly in prison, but not to that extent. But he 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.719 looked at me differently after that, and he was just like, 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:11.680 what happened? 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:23.080 I'm Annisonfield and from the teams at Novel and iHeart Podcasts. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:46.560 This is the Girlfriend's Gelhouse Lawyer, Episode one, Hell'sgate. When 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.240 you see a long ramp for the wheelchair accessibility along 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.640 with a regular staircase, that is my courtyard. 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.160 Don't listen to the sign. They got it wrong. I 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.280 am so not kidding. Just walk straight upon entry to 0:07:58.320 --> 0:07:59.960 your left you will see another ramp. 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:10.840 Go back up the crim I can't see you. 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:16.600 This is great. 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:17.840 Is that Kelly's house? 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:21.160 Hi? 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:27.200 Good? How are you Anna? It's so nice to finally 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:27.880 meet you. 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:33.600 Why This is Kelly Hannett, now forty three and still 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.680 with a point to prove. It's late twenty twenty four 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.640 and she's waiting for me outside her apartment in a 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:43.880 story of Queen's. Kelly's wearing a red top with Bebo 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.400 bajewled across the front. When she hugs me, she smells 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.960 like a mix of rose perfume and the king sized 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:54.839 cigarette she's smoking. She's got big, wide eyes. Her hair 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.839 is vivid blonde, pulled back into a high ponytail. She's 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.680 sporting a headband that perfectly matches her eyeshadow, which she 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:06.120 says it always does. This is my first time seeing 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.520 Kelly in person, and up close. I can see how 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:16.800 she got the nickname Gelhouse Barbie. Kelly got out of 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.640 prison three years ago. She spent almost twelve years behind 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:26.520 bars for murder. Kelly says she's innocent of all charges, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.079 but in the eyes of the justice system, Kelly was 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.680 a villain, a perpetrator of a terrible crime who deserved 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.800 to be punished. As the reporter behind the Girlfriends, I've 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.640 always had a victim first philosophy. In fact, I've said 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.960 more than once that we don't interview perpetrators on this show. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.120 And through that philosophy, through telling the stories we have 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.160 the Girlfriends has unwittingly reinforced the idea that you have 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.920 a victim, generally a woman, and then there's a bad villain, 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.800 often a man who hurts the a bad guy who 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.320 thankfully gets locked up in the end with the key 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.480 thrown away. And in these stories it's clear who to 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.199 root for. The victim, a woman who is a lot 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.360 of the time, let's face it, dead, who then becomes 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:22.959 forever memorialized, frozen in a state of perfect almost sainted victimhood. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.760 But real life is rarely so neat, especially for the 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:35.080 women who survive. One good thing about Kelly, at least 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.240 from a journalist's perspective, is that she is not at 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.680 all withholding. I don't even need to ask her that 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.520 many questions. She's a boiling pot of beans ready to spill. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.240 Kelly's the type to wear her heart on her sleeve 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:51.280 and on her front door. 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.120 You have a shed mark here on the door. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.800 It represents my ethnicity. I'm one hundred percent Irish, but 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.920 we always have to keep the two American flags here too. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.839 We wished that I am Irish American and that we're proud. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:10.680 Supporters of the Paralyzed Veterans of America. 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.400 Thank you, you're welcome. Oh, it's your piano program. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:15.120 Yes. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.160 As I walk into Kelly's apartment, I'm struck by how 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.319 much of a shrine it is to her life. Sure, 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.280 but I actually mean a literal religious shrine. It's full 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:33.600 of roses, like so many roses, real fake jewelry pictures. 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:34.760 They're everywhere. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.760 Oh, but today is a very significant day. I don't 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.440 know if I ever told you about my story about 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.400 Saint Terre's October one. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:43.960 Today is her feast day. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.920 Saint Therez is a Catholic saint. Kelly's been praying to 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.000 her since a rainy day about forty years ago when 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:55.400 she was around four years old. 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.800 My mom she was driving to the she parked the car. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.720 I opened the car up and I stepped into a puddle. 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:15.320 Inside the puddle was a rose. For some reason, I 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.960 don't know why, I picked the rose up. My mom 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.400 got out of the driver's seat and came around and 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.440 she saw me with the rose in my hand. She said, Kelly, 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.440 put that down. It's dirty. So I threw the rose down. 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.880 I go into the rectory and my mom had to 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.480 go in the back, and the nuns were sitting there 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.880 and they had this whole wall of pamphlets of about 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:46.320 fifty different saints. Randomly, I just picked this pamphlet. It 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.120 was a picture of a saint holding a crucifix and 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:57.800 holding roses in her hand. As I started to read 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:04.320 the prayer, it said she will send a message of 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:09.599 love and a shower of roses from the Heavenly gardens. 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.920 I just kept thinking of that rose outside. 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.080 I wanted that rose. 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.880 When we got back to the car, I waited until 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.760 my mom got in the driver's She grabbed the rose. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:25.560 And put in my pocket. 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.200 Throughout my whole life, I had been praying to Saint 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:43.040 Lores and finding roses constantly. I had shoe boxes upon 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.760 shoe boxes, and then I started marking each. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.280 Be Sitting in Kelly's Rosa Dorn department, I'm watching her 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.640 as she speaks. I'm listening, but simultaneously trying to get 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.080 the measure of her, looking for hidden context in between 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.240 her words. I guess it's a report and me Kelly's 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.000 eyes light up when she speaks about Saint. There's which 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.400 she does a lot, this Saint. She's one of the 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:14.880 most important figures in Kelly's life. I'm imagining Kelly, barely 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.920 four years old, reading a prayer pamphlet, a sodden rose 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:20.200 in her tiny pocket. 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:26.800 She's beginning to dawn on me how extraordinary this story is. 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.440 And that's when I'm interrupted by the other most significant 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:32.800 person in Kelly's life. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:35.200 Here's my brother, Ronnie. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:44.280 I'm terrible, I know, Yeah, that's Ronnie. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:45.920 It's my best friend in the whole wide world. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:47.800 Ronnie and I, I mean we. 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.360 Kelly and Ronnie live in the same apartment they're called 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.160 home for nearly three decades. Before it was just them, 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.360 they shared it with their mum, dad and their family dog, 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.600 a cocker Spaniel named Casey. You can feel that family 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.720 history here. It's soaked into the walls alongside the nicotine. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.040 This is my shrine that I meet from my mother. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.400 I know you're probably thinking, why is there a cigarette 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.320 on top of that. My mother's less words, not to 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.120 be funny, God forgive me was give me a cigarette. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:25.040 So I gave her her last cigarette. These are rose petals, 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.080 of course, because of my love for roses. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:28.160 Oh. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:34.000 These are the rosary beads that were found clamped in 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.120 her hand when she died. So when rigan water sets in. 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.720 Kelly's mom's name was Kathleen. Before she died, she had 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.920 been sick for a long time. Kelly and Ronnie still 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.960 keep her sick bed in the living room. Currently, it's 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.560 covered in teddy bears and a blanket with a poem 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.800 printed on it about how special brothers are. 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.480 A gift from Kelly to Ronnie. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.200 Yankee pillows because we're Yankee fans. We used to be 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.800 met fans, but we're sick and tired of ruling for 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:02.560 a losing team. 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.200 But I guess, scanning my eyes around the room, a 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.400 spot a dresser next to the bed. On it a 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.720 pair of nineteen eighties Barbies, still in their original packaging. 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.600 One's a dentist and the other is a lawyer, both 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.840 a blonde, obviously. Also in the living room is a 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.240 makeup table with lights around the mirror, like something from 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.640 old Hollywood. It comes complete with a pink and white 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.560 heart shaped chair, but right at the center of the room, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:32.480 in front. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:32.720 Of the TV. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:38.560 It's one of Kelly's most prized possessions, her electronic keyboard. 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.840 Some evenings, Kelly and Ronnie sit in here on the 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.160 old sick bed converted into a sofa and listen to 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:47.640 DJ sets on YouTube. 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.120 They dance and sing along. Sometimes Kelly jams on her. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.880 Since honestly I'm an aspiring DJ. My favorite DJ's Paul 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.480 Van Dyke. However, I haven't gotten the money to get 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.040 the turnity yet the pioneer turntables. I don't have that 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.080 much experience in this. However, I go crazy on my keyboard, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:20.040 and so yeah, I'm just freestyle setting me freestyling. I 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.000 had nothing with my end. 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:28.480 Honestly, Kelly's apartment here in Astoria is a safe haven 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.520 for her and Ronnie. But I'm shocked to learn that 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.760 it's barely three blocks away from the scene of the murder. 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.280 That but Kelly behind bars. 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.040 I know I wouldn't want to stick around so close 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.760 to the place where my whole life fell apart. 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:45.879 You could have left New York if you wanted to, 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:46.679 but you haven't. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:52.800 I know, home is wherever Ronnie is. If Ronnie's here, 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.480 then this is home. If Ronnie moved, then that would 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.880 be harm Wherever Ronnie would have moved to, I would 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.680 have been going there. And I'm glad Ronnie was still 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.960 here because this is the place that I left. 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.640 We've lived here for thirty two years. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.560 I mean, that's home, and I can tell you there's 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:16.800 no place like home. 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.719 Well, I think it's a very brave thing to stay 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:24.760 in the same place. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:25.480 It's easier to. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:31.040 Run, Yeah, yeah, but I don't run from my problems. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:31.280 Other than Ronnie. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.600 The one other, very important reason why Kelly has refused 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.879 to run is because she's always maintained her innocence. I 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.879 was just wondering how important it is to you that 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.399 the people who listen to this podcast come out of 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.040 it believing you. 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.919 You know, everyone's jury. Everyone's going to have their own opinions. 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:54.520 Yeah, I mean, what can happen to anyone is a 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.560 wrong for conviction. Nobody could really sit there and say 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.800 what they could definite do in any situation until it 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:09.440 happens to them. It would be nice if people would 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:14.280 be open minded. I was put away for thirteen years wrongfully. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.320 I'm not asking for a retrial here. All I need 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:20.040 is the chance. 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.359 Next, I'm going to give Kelly the chance to tell 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.639 her side of the story about the terrible night that 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:52.960 would change her life forever. Why don't we move on 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.000 to the actual night itself? Do you want to start 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.800 us from earlier on that day, like what you'd been doing? 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:01.560 Sure? 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:04.320 I just want to warn you that I'm not going 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.560 to be holding back on the grizzly details in this 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.200 series like I've tried to in previous seasons with the girlfriends. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:12.520 The brutal details. 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.439 Of the murder Kelly was accused of and what she 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.520 went through either side of it are just too important. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.879 It's in the details that someone like Kelly is found 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.720 guilty or innocent. It's in the details that her culpability 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.120 is decided, and it's in the details where Kelly come 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:38.400 more from victim into villain. It all started on July sixth, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:47.640 twenty ten. Kelly's twenty eight years old. She still lives 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.200 at home, but she and her mum have been arguing 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:57.080 a lot recently, mostly about Kelly's new boyfriend, Tommy. Kelly's mother, Kathleen, 0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:59.520 doesn't approve of him. 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:00.359 Thinks he's bad news. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.920 More than once in their short relationship, Kelly has turned 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:09.359 up on her mum's doorstep horrifically beaten, bloody, and bruised. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.000 Before long, Tommy usually turns up too, yelling vile abuse 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.359 at their windows for all the neighbors to hear, and 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.199 Kathleen's explosive reactions put Kelly between a rock and a 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:25.879 hard place, so Kelly's staying away from home. She's with 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:30.159 Tommy instead, But by July sixth, Tommy's gotten into a 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.560 fight with his roommate and says he can't go back 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:37.240 to his apartment. Now he and Kelly are sleeping under 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.080 a bridge in a Storia Park. 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:40.119 I don't know. 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.239 I guess you could say that I was transient by 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:48.600 choice and also out of fear and out of love, honestly, 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.040 because I didn't want to leave him in the park 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:55.200 by himself. So I was like, that's a terrible thing 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.000 for a girlth And did you leave her boyfriend in 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:57.960 the park by himself? 0:21:58.880 --> 0:21:59.919 I said, I don't want to do that. 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.080 So all day July sixth, they're hanging out in the park, 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.680 but Kelly is suffering. She's been addicted to prescription pain 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.920 pills since she was seventeen. She and Tommy actually met 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:17.520 at a methadone clinic, and right now Kelly is withdrawing hard, vomiting, 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:21.280 feeling terrible. Tommy has stopped her from getting her methadone 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.480 dose for the past three days, which just seems like 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.000 a cruel act of control to me. 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:41.160 So right now we're actually standing the scene of the crime. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.280 I would say I was standing right over here. 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.600 I've asked Kelly to come back to a Storia Park. 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:50.119 I want to try and make some kind of sense 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.760 of what happened that night back in July twenty ten. 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.040 It's difficult to really say what the scene of the 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:59.320 crime was because they're drinking. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.520 Like began over. 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:06.560 Here, Kelly, still jonesing for her methadone fix, has spent 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:10.160 the day with Tommy drinking four loco. A single can 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.760 is the equivalent of four cans of beer, and as 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:16.399 if that wasn't enough to top it all off, it 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.920 also includes roughly a metric fuck ton of caffeine. 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.040 The caffeine being in it, what it would do was 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:26.119 wake you up, so you keep drinking it, and then 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:31.080 the caffeine wears off, and boy does that alcohol hit you. 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:32.280 It sneaks up on you, Cloe. 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.879 By about three am, Tommy and Kelly are wasted, exhausted 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.680 from the rough sleeping and withdrawal. They lay some blankets 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.280 down under the bridge that cuts right through the park. 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:47.760 It just so happens to ironically be named the Hell's 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:52.919 Gate Bridge, and boy, your boy was there given the 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.280 correct name because it really was the gate to Hell 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:56.639 for me. 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:00.760 Tommy notices a man sat on a park bench across 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:06.120 the way from him. He yells over to him. 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:10.160 The guy says, olah, I know now he speaks Spanish, right, 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.760 and I speak Spanish fluently, And Telly knew that, and 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:19.199 he asked me to ask him if it would be 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:23.320 okay for us to join him, and he said yes. 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:27.560 Tommy and Kelly walk over to sit with the man 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:32.600 who introduces himself as Angel, and. 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.480 That's when he told me that his brother threw him 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.240 out of the house because he had been drinking. He 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.879 said he beat him up, and that's when he pulled 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.960 out some type of I don't know if it was 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:45.840 a key chain or a charm that he was an 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:47.200 alcoholics anonymous. 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:51.879 Angel is drunk, like falls over when he tries to 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:55.760 stand up drunk, but Tommy doesn't care. 0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:58.280 He just sees an opportunity. 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:02.000 He tells me to ask him if he's ever drankd 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.920 for local and I asked him and he said no, 0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:10.720 but that he would love to try. So the man 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:15.560 gave Tommy I think it was six dollars, and I 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.520 got up. I had this little book big and I 0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:22.320 put it on and I thought I was going with Tommy, 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:26.480 except Tommy gribbed the bicycle of the man and I said, 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:28.800 what are you doing and he said, I'll. 0:25:28.680 --> 0:25:29.399 Be right back. 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:31.320 I said, what are you crazy? 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:32.359 Don't believe me? 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:34.600