1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both. 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: I really love a problem solver. You now, somebody who says, hey, 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: look there's something we can do about this. Let's figure 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: it out. And today I'm talking to two of the 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: best problem solvers I know. Later i'll dig into ideas 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: about solving some of our problems with technology and elections 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: with my friend, Minnesota Senator Amy Klobisher. But first I'm 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: talking to the Mayor of Compton, California, Asia Brown. I 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: first heard about this amazing young woman who decided to 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: run for the mayor of Compton when she was just 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: thirty one years old. And Compton, as a lot of 13 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: people may know, is very old, distinguished city in California, 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: but it was having a lot of challenges. And the 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: idea that she stepped up and said, look, I think 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: I can make a difference made a terrific impression on me. Hey, 17 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: hi Mayor, Hi, how are you Secretary Clinton? Oh? Asia, 18 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm fine. I hope you are. I am. I am 19 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: so great to see you. I am thrilled to welcome 20 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: you to this podcast because, as you I hope no, 21 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: I am a longtime admirer of your leadership and the 22 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: incredible work you've done as mayor of Compton, California, from 23 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: cutting both unemployment and the homicide rate by half in 24 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: your first term to pioneering the largest guaranteed income program 25 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: in our country. I think your success is really important, 26 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: of course for the people of Compton, but more because 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: of what it says about what we could be doing 28 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: to help people and to govern better in a difficult time. 29 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: So let me start by asking you, how did you 30 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: get inspired to run and become the youngest ever elected 31 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: mayor of Compton, California at the age of thirty one. 32 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: I really was inspired to serve my community in this capacity, 33 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: recognizing that I had worked in cities for a decade 34 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: and urban planning, economic development, redevelopment, and I realized that 35 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: projects can only go so far, and that in order 36 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: to change the trajectory of my community, we need a 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: new leadership. And so I looked around and asked people 38 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: that exhibited leadership qualities what they consider running and everyone 39 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: said no, And so I like, wow, I didn't know 40 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: that far. Everyone said no. I even asked my husband, 41 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: because I was the strategist of the family and I 42 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: told him, you know, I have your back, and he 43 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: said absolutely not. He was like, you're You're made for this, 44 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: and I recognized that I was. I had the training, 45 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: the education, and the passion, and so I stepped out 46 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: by faith. And because I had done so much work 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: in the community, we had already had a really strong 48 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: coalition behind me. And I went to the people of 49 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: Compton and I spoke with him about what they wanted 50 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: for their community. And then I created a twelve point 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: vision for Compton Plan, which was a strategy for community 52 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: growth and restoration. And that was my platform, that was 53 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: the mission, and the residents of Compton overwhelmingly elected me 54 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: to enact that strategy, which is exactly what I've done 55 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: for the last eight years. I love the fact that 56 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: you say you're someone who likes getting things done. You're 57 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: a woman after my own part Asia. When did you 58 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: first realize that about yourself? Were you a child, a 59 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: young girl, a teenager? Definitely a child, um. I actually 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: am a twin have a twin brother, um. And my 61 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: mother would always tell me, you're definitely the strategy and 62 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: brains of operation. I would always be trying to run 63 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: the situation, and she would tell me, you're not going 64 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: to run my house, but you'll be running a company 65 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: some day. So I always knew that I would um 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: be a leader someplace, but I was focused on solving problems. 67 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: I just wanted to make things better. And you've come 68 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: up with something called the Compton Pledge, which is a 69 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: really fascinating idea. Can you describe that to us? Absolutely? Um. 70 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: The Compton Pledge is really our commitment to Compton, and 71 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: it's focused on providing a direct, guaranteed income to eight 72 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: hundred Compton residents that are the most impoverished in our community. 73 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: And we really were strategic and wanting the sample to 74 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,119 Speaker 1: actually reflect Compton's demographics, and so we have not only 75 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: um those that are below the poverty line, but also 76 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: those that are undocumented, those that are firmly incarcerated, and 77 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: so they were picked in a lottery basis. But they'll 78 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: be receiving bi monthly payments between three hundred dollars every 79 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: two weeks or six hundred dollars every two weeks, depending 80 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: on family size, and the program will last for two years. 81 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: We worked with the private sector to raid is eight 82 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: million dollars in order to provide direct cash to confident residents, 83 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: and we're looking forward to measuring their well being, how 84 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: they feel, how their trauma is impacted with the additional 85 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: infusion of capital, and then also providing them with access 86 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: to a portal with benefits. So we're providing free checking 87 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: accounts and financial counseling and um just information so that 88 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: they can really empower themselves in their families. Why do 89 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: you think guaranteed income programs like the Compton Pledge are 90 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: promising when it comes not only to reducing poverty, which 91 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: of course is a goal in and of itself, but 92 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: more than that, integrating people into the larger community, getting 93 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: them to use a checking account, getting them to know 94 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: how to seek out help and advice if they want 95 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: to start a small business or they have some other issues. 96 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: I am a strong believer that we are all all 97 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: human beings UM in our nation. We're all connected, we 98 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: all live in communities, we all um live in the 99 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: same neighborhoods, and what happens to my neighbor ultimately will 100 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: impact me. When we think about people relying on the 101 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: health care system for UM direct UH and in immediate 102 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: healthcare that ultimately has a greater cost on the broader society. 103 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: When we consider that people that are impoverished usually are 104 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: more susceptible to being impacted by crime. That's something that 105 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: impacts the total community. And so in order to have 106 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: a direct impact on poverty, we must provide a direct 107 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: investment to those that are most impoverished. And it's just 108 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: really simple economics. We know for a fact that trickle 109 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: down economics does not work. Um. It has never meant um, 110 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: and it's not going to work. And so we must 111 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: actually put our our money where we say our our 112 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: mouth is what we say our value is as Americans 113 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: in order to really provide equal access, justice, and opportunity 114 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: for all. I love that and I think it's a 115 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: great way of trying to demonstrate that investing in people 116 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: pays off. I know you've been asked this question, but 117 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: how do you respond to people who argue that a 118 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: guaranteed income program will disincentivize people from actually working. That 119 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: is such a misnomer, um, And it really reminds me 120 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: of the welfare queen, thinking that providing someone with the 121 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: basics to live is going to disincentivize them to wanting 122 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: to provide more for their families and for myself. I 123 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: was raised in poverty. I had a single mother, she 124 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: had two kids. I need everything. At the same time, 125 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: my mother did not access public assistance. She decided to 126 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: work um and she worked hard, and she made zero excuses, 127 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: and she focused on providing every single opportunity she can 128 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: get her fingers on. And I know that my mother 129 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: is not unique, that all mothers, all all fathers. They 130 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: want the best for their children, and if they have 131 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: an additional infusion of income, they're not going to sit 132 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: back because obviously you can't live on three hundred dollars 133 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: or six hundred dollars a month, but it can enable 134 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: you from being um, housing insecure, from having your utilities 135 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,239 Speaker 1: cut off, from actually having a savings account for once 136 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: in your life, and not feeling the pressure of constant 137 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: really insecurity. My mother was raised with stress where literally 138 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: if something happened, um, if her car broke, we literally 139 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: were without utilities, and sometimes we had to move if 140 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: the issue began to compound, and it happened over and 141 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: over again growing up, and I remember being a child 142 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: and feeling her stress because children feel what your parents feel. 143 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: So I think people need to get back to basics 144 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: and think about humanity and to not segregate poor people 145 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: from the broader fabric of humanity. I love that, and 146 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: of course I agree with it because so often people 147 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: are literally just one broken car away from losing their job. There, 148 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, one bad health experience from losing their job 149 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: and their income, and it's so unfair to turn our 150 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: backs on what could be an incredibly rich flowering of 151 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: people in our larger country if they just had a 152 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: little bit of help so that they don't fall off 153 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: the cliff and end up needing so much more or 154 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: feeling that they're just lost. What advice would you give 155 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: to someone who wants to get involved in their community 156 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: but isn't quite sure how to do that. I would 157 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: definitely encourage people to check out your city council meetings. 158 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: Just see see who's representing you, See what issues that 159 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: they're really champion Are they important to you and your family, 160 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: Are they really going to to move the community forward, 161 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: And then I would definitely start getting engaged, start reaching 162 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: out to them and let them know what you need 163 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: in your community and make them work for you. Elected 164 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: officials are here to serve, and they're they're not to 165 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: be served. They are to serve people, but the people 166 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: have to actually do their part and hold them accountable 167 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: and project what their agenda is in order for them 168 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: to coalesce around that. So I would encourage people to 169 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: use their power. We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. 170 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: I've heard that when you work to get young people engaged, 171 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: you first asked them what makes you mad the most, 172 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: because that's where they'll find the motivation to fix whatever 173 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: it is that makes them mad. So let me ask 174 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: you what makes you mad the most these days? You 175 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: know what's been biking me, Mathew? Most are I think 176 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: just people in the local community, and quite frankly that 177 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: our seniors but aren't necessarily seasoned, that are continuing to 178 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: fight against the younger generation. When we look at our 179 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: history of those that have been the most impactful on 180 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: the front lines of change our young people. And so 181 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: I just believe when when the older generation can really 182 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: wrap their arms around the young people and impose their 183 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: wisdom and marry that with young people's passion, that we 184 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: can really see the largest growth in our in our cities. Well, 185 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: I hope that the older generation of which I am 186 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: now or we'll hear you say that age now you 187 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: have announced that you're not going to run for re 188 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: election this summer. You were elected twice, you have been 189 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: very successful mayor. You've institutionalized some really important changes in 190 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: attitude and policy. What made you decide that it was 191 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: time for you to move on. I've always committed that 192 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: I would serve two terms UM, and I just believe 193 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: that elected offices do not belong to the office holder. 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: They belong to the people. And I know that as 195 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: long as I'm here that at some point I won't 196 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: motivate that next generation to step forward. And so in 197 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: the midst of COVID, I was even more ignited in 198 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: my passion of just building community and so I launched 199 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: a community development corporation that's really focused on infusing wealth, 200 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: building generational wealth in our communities, providing opportunities and educational 201 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: infrastructure UM and just innovation and tech in comftent So 202 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: I will be in comftent Um, but but serving in 203 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: a different capacity and with what I believe I can 204 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: have the greatest impact at this time, I just hope 205 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: that you know what you've done serves as a model 206 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: not only for those who follow in your footsteps in Compton, 207 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: but really across the country, and of course I really 208 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: hope that you will stay involved, that your voice will 209 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: be out there. I just want to thank you, Secretary 210 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: Clinton for being just a warrior UM for for justice, 211 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: for access, for equality. I followed your career since the 212 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: very beginning, and I can understand as a female leader 213 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: just that the obstacles that you've had to overcome and 214 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: the stances you've had to make because you're a woman. 215 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: UM And so I just want to let you know 216 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 1: that I am a huge fan. I always will be, 217 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: and I just want to thank you for still being 218 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: with us in publicly and just imparting your voice and 219 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: your wisdom to to the United States and abroad because 220 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: you're a champion for sure. Oh thank you so much. Asia. 221 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: That means a world to me coming from you, and uh, 222 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: I think I joined a big core us. Wishing you 223 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: the very best as you embark on the next adventure 224 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: in your life. Thank you. To keep up with Asia, 225 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: you can follow her on social media. She's Asia That's 226 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: a J. A. L. Brown on Twitter and Instagram. I 227 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: have been looking forward to talking with my friend Senator 228 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: Amy Klobisher from the beginning of the podcast because she's 229 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: a really down to earth person who tries to figure 230 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: out what to do to help people and also to 231 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: solve problems. I've known her since she first ran for 232 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: the Senate. She was a great supporter to me when 233 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: I ran for president, in just blanketed the Midwest campaigning 234 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: for me. And now she's back in the Senate after 235 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: running for president herself, so she has that experience behind 236 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: her and is chairing one of the most important committees 237 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: called the Rules Committee, which she'll talk about. One of 238 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: the areas of problem solving Amy is passionate about is 239 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: holding big business accountable and breaking up corporate monopolies. In fact, 240 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: her latest book is called Antitrust, Taking on monopoly Power 241 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: from the guilded Age to the Digital Age. And that's 242 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I was really excited to talk 243 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: to her for our podcast. Here she is, Hey, hello, 244 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: my dear, how are you. It's great to see you. 245 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: How are you doing? How's your family? And I assume 246 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: your husband after his bout with COVID is fine, Okay, 247 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: I hope he is. My nine two year old dad 248 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: actually also got through COVID. So we've been hit like 249 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: so many families and um, so many families of course 250 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: hit worse. And I've think one of our most exciting 251 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: moments right now, in addition to the fact that it's 252 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: like eighty degrees in Minnesota, is that we are finally 253 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: getting through this. I was just on the phone with 254 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of vats with the American Legion and they 255 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: were saying how excited they were that so many of 256 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: their members have gotten the shots. And you know, it 257 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: just feels to me like we are so close to 258 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: getting through this and we've just got to hang in 259 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: there and follow the rules. Um, and we're going to 260 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: make it through. Well, I'm hoping that your assessment is 261 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: right that we're certainly beginning to see the end of this. 262 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: You know, there are two really important issues I want 263 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: to talk to you about. Um. We'll get to the 264 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: one about anti trust and about technology, but I want 265 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: to start with the very important role you're playing in 266 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: the Senate on election reform. You know, give us an 267 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: update about where we are in trying to save our 268 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: democracy again by fixing the issues that unfortunately keep coming up, 269 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: about how we can always have free and fair elections, 270 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: keep dark money out of our elections, encourage and help 271 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: people to vote where where, are we on all of that, 272 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: Senator Well, I think no one knows better than you 273 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: what can happen when people start messing around with elections, 274 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: which is what happened clearly in when you're running. And 275 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: as a result of that, there were changes made to 276 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: protect our system from foreign interference. Um, not only the 277 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: hacking and what happened with your campaign, with the direct 278 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: hacking into John Podesta's account so many others, but also 279 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: with the attempts made to actually interfere with the ballots. 280 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: And that's when we pushed for extra funding for the states. 281 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: Because of what happened, we uh, Senator Langford and I 282 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: introduced Backup Paper Ballots Bill, basically the Secure Election Act, 283 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: with support from Senator Burr and Grant, and of course 284 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: the Trump administration stopped that from passing, so we still 285 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: don't have a requirement on backups. But because of what happened, 286 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: I will say there were people like Chris Krebs at 287 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: Homeland Security that worked really hard to take on foreign interference, 288 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: resulting in him saying at the end of it, it 289 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: was the safest election when it look comes to foreign 290 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: interference in the history of America. So that's the one 291 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: thing we got to remember that came out of what 292 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: happened to you. The second piece of this, though, is 293 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: the efforts that have been made at voter suppression that 294 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: have been going on for years and became really obvious 295 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: the last few years, and during the pandemic, this amazing, 296 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: almost magical thing happened. You would have thought that voter 297 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: turnout would have been way down because it was so 298 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: hard to vote. Instead it was up at the highest 299 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: level ever in the middle of a pandemic. That is 300 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: because there was so much pressure on governors secretaries of 301 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: states of both parties to make it easier to vote, 302 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: to be like Minnesota where we have early registration in 303 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: and I've always had the highest voter turnout in the 304 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: country and as a result, much more voting by mail, 305 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: much more education efforts on how to do this, and 306 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: we come out with this big turnout. Okay, what happens then, Well, 307 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: Joe Biden wins the election and Democrats eventually went Georgia, 308 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: which no one thought possible. And then what does the 309 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: Republican Party do? And to me, this is sad because 310 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of their governors and sectors of states were 311 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: doing the right thing during the election, it was a 312 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: bipartisan effort. Instead of going with the flow and re 313 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: examining their party and what they can do, which all 314 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: parties do after they lose an election, these guys decided, 315 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: we're just gonna eliminate some of those voters. We're gonna 316 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: choose our voters instead of the voters choosing us. I 317 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: think that what we need to do is just put 318 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: in some minimum national standards about mail in balloting and 319 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: registering and early voting. And that's what the Four the 320 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: People Act is about, in addition to taking some the 321 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: dark money out of our politics and um, disclosing contributions 322 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: and putting in ethics rules. UM. And that's this big 323 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: bill that I chair the Rules Committee now, and that 324 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: we're going to get through the committee. And what are 325 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: the prospects of getting it through the Senate given what 326 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people are worried about, which is the 327 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: old filibuster and the way to stop legislation like this. Yeah, well, 328 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: I think it's time to change that old filibuster. Um. 329 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: And I think you and I both understood, when used 330 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: in a good way, it was it would foster people 331 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: working together to get to sixty votes. That was a 332 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,479 Speaker 1: whole idea, and you were a master when you were 333 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: in the Senate of getting things done across the aisle 334 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: and knew how to do that. And I've done a 335 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: lot of that too. I still went across the aisle 336 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: all the time. But I have seen this now as 337 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: impeding every major thing that we need to do, and 338 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: so there's a few ways to get around that. One 339 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: way is reconciliation, this old process that we used to 340 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: get the America Rescue Plan through. But you just got 341 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: to get stuff done, and that was fifty one vote. 342 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: But you can't use that reconciliation thing, which is about taxes. 343 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: You can't use it for things like voting reform or 344 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: for the most part, immigration, climate change, some of these 345 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: big things. So that leads you to the filibuster and 346 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: making change. So I would favor changing the filibuster now 347 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: to get rid of it. There's other reforms you could do, 348 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: like the talking filibuster, which center mansion as signaled interest, 349 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: in which you would at least force the other side 350 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: to just stand and be there all night instead of 351 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: messing around and just throwing in some procedural objection and 352 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: going home. So those are the kinds of things we're 353 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: looking at. In your question about how we get this 354 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: bill through, it's like all these other bills. Um, we're 355 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: going to have to find some way because right now 356 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell is not in a compromising mood. Um. That's 357 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: a nice Minnesota euphemism saying it. So we're gonna have 358 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: to find a way to get it done well. Connected 359 00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: to election reform is technology, social media, Internet reform, because 360 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: I see it as going you know, hand in hand 361 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: in terms of how we communicate, how we get information 362 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: that we can trust to make decisions in a democracy. 363 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: And you have a new book out, has it? Has 364 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: it come out or it's about to come coming out? 365 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: A excellent So you have a new book coming out, um, 366 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: and it's called antitrust, taking on monopoly power from the 367 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: Gilded Age to the digital age, and it's about how 368 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: we increase competition in our economy and a number of industries. 369 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: And you know, as you know, I'd be happy to 370 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: talk any trust policy with you all day long. But 371 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: for anyone out there listening who's all of a sudden 372 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: saying any trust, what is what is that? Let's break 373 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: it down. What is antitrust? And why does it matter 374 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: so much? Well, it matters to anyone who wonders why 375 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: is my cable bill so high? Or why is it 376 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: cheap to go one airport leg and not the other? 377 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: How come, um, there's nothing to pick from when it 378 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: comes to cat food. Or my favorite was John Oliver 379 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: who did a whole segment on this, and at the 380 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: very end say, and if all this consolidation is enough 381 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: to make you want to die, good luck, because you've 382 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: only got three casket makers left. And then actually one 383 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: has bought the other one, so there's only two. Um. 384 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: And so anti trust came about during what we call 385 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: the Gilded Age, when they are all these robber barons 386 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: and they were controlling the railroads in Minnesota and northern Minnesota. 387 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: They controlling where my grandpa later worked, the iron ore industry, 388 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: and the mines. You can kind of go through it, 389 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, these stories in the haymarket going back in Chicago, 390 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: Hillary and so what came about was this antitrust because 391 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: it trust owns everything. So anti trust was this movement 392 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: led by Democrats and Republicans. Teddy Roosevelt rode his horse 393 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: into the White House in part because he was willing 394 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: to take on the trust. So there's been this spirit 395 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: of entrepreneur worship rejuvenating capitalism through the years that have 396 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: not been partisan, and we haven't done anything in this 397 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: area for decades and decades and decades, and now we 398 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: have our new guilded age with companies that are basically 399 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: the gateway companies, whether it is Facebook when it comes 400 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: to social media, when it's Google that controlled the searches, 401 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: and they have reached a point where they are able 402 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: to hold the whole countries hostage. Like Australia that simply 403 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: wanted to have people pay for content so news organizations 404 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: could be compensated for content, and Google and Facebook that 405 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: provide all those links go no way, we don't want 406 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: to pay for that. We're just gonna go home. Sorry, 407 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: you won't have a search engine. Well, eventually there was 408 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: so much pressure internationally that they backed away. In Australia 409 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: was able to proceed with their law. But a true 410 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: sign of a monopoly is when they can hold an 411 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: entire industrialized nation hostage. So that's what you're seeing, and 412 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: it's affecting people, even though they love their aroducts. And 413 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: I'm not against these companies, you know, they've been successful, 414 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: they've given us great products, but we've always rejuvenated capitalism 415 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: by having a check in balance. That was the breakup 416 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: of a T and T. That was the work that 417 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: went on around Microsoft in the past and other companies 418 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: where people pushed back. Sometimes it resulted in dramatic things 419 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: like the breakup and the reduction in the long distance 420 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: line costs and the spawning of the cell phone industry. 421 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: And sometimes maybe the end result wasn't dramatic, but it 422 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: created a pause in the competition, so other new companies 423 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: got in the market. And so that's what you're seeing 424 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: right now with these Google and Facebook lawsuits that actually 425 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: got started by some hard working people during the Trump 426 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: administration at the end at the FTC and the do 427 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: O J and I Trust, and are now being carried 428 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: on by the Biden administration. You have really described so 429 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: well what we're up against. And small businesses that might 430 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: very well be developing some of the advances in technology 431 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: or some of the fixes for what ails technology are 432 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: being just squeezed out of the market. I mean they're 433 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: not getting, you know, the kind of air they need 434 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: to breathe to be able to develop and grow. So 435 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: I think stronger competition or antitrust policy would also be 436 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: good for small business. Yeah, it is, and especially women 437 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: owned and minority owned businesses. You look at those numbers, 438 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: particularly minority owned businesses, and how you have whole areas 439 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: of the country that used to be have thriving small 440 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: minority owned businesses, particularly African American owned businesses, and it's 441 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: very hard to get started when you have these big 442 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: goliaths that basically push everything out, and it's hard to 443 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: get the capital to start. And there's a lot of 444 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: solutions which I lay out in the book to that, 445 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: even outside of antitrust law, with making sure that you 446 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: make it easier to access capital and having STEM programs 447 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: for focused on women and minorities. But you can't forget 448 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: the n I trust law. I'm actually I'm pretty excited 449 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: about that aspect of people haven't talked about competition for wages. 450 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: If you just have one big company, they have no 451 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: reason to want to compete for wages. If you have 452 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: a bunch of people competing in the same area, this 453 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: makes sense. Then the employees could go Nope, I have 454 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: this expertise, but I'm gonna go work at this company instead. 455 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: UM and when you look back in history. I mentioned Chicago, 456 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: which was really a focal point for the union movement 457 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: way back. That union movement came out in tandem with 458 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: these monopolies because they were trying to give workers more power. 459 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: The farmers and the grangers with their pitchforks at meetings 460 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: in Minnesota and Iowa, North and South Dakota. That was 461 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: a lot about the same thing. They don't want to 462 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: have to pay just one railroad company to ship their grain. Um. 463 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: And so it's just this trying to take that kind 464 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: of exuberance for the issue that they had back then, 465 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: when they had literally campaign songs. Woodrow Wilson had a 466 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: campaign song about and I dressed um, which we wouldn't 467 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: do today. But it's trying to take that kind of 468 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: exuberance and bring it into the modern day politics. What 469 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: are some of the monopolies that a lot of people 470 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: might not even be aware of. Let's see online travel. 471 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: People think they're getting all their deals when they go 472 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: to Expedia and Kiaka, Well it turns out two companies 473 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: own that market. Um. You have agged. There's been a 474 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: lot of mergers and agg which makes it really hard. 475 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: Pharmaceutical area, UM, while we are, you know, very pleased 476 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: they developed these vaccines for us all across the world. 477 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: We can't then take our pedal off the gas when 478 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: it comes to looking at anti competitive conduct with pharmaceuticals, 479 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: UM and I actually start my book by leading with 480 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: how I got involved, which was a newborn baby drug 481 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: called into methisin, when a pharmacist called me in Minnesota 482 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: said this price suddenly went out for newborn babies with 483 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: heart defects. It went of a thousand percent in one week, 484 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: and it turned out one company had bought both the drugs. 485 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: It was that simple. Um, I just think it would 486 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: surprise people. It's everything from sunglasses, as I said, to 487 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: cat food. It's a lot of consolidation going on. We'll 488 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: be right back, So talk to us about your plan 489 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: for both preventing monopolies and incentivizing competition, the kind of 490 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: actions that you think are necessary, and what your legislation 491 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: would try to do well. The first thing is making 492 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: sure these agencies that FTC and the d O G 493 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: and I trust, which are just shadows of their former selves, 494 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: making sure that the agencies are not left with band 495 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: aids and duct tape to take on the biggest companies 496 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: the world has ever known. UM. The second piece is 497 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: looking at the standards, and we have juvenated our anti 498 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: trust laws decade after decade after decade, and so this 499 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: is a moment where we could do that and look 500 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: at some of these gigantic mega mergers that are over 501 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: five billion dollars and say, well, for those, the government 502 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't have to prove that it hurts competition. UM, the 503 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: company should have to prove that it doesn't. To make 504 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: it easier to bring the cases. Because because you weren't 505 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: President Hillary, we appointed a number of judges who have 506 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: actually have really conservative track records on anti trust, particularly Gorset, 507 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: who continues to side with Justice Thomas on these cases. 508 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: And then Justice Kavanaugh had a number of conservative cases. 509 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: He did go one time since becoming a Supreme Court 510 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: justice on allowing a case to go forward with Apple, 511 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: and he sided with the more liberal justices. UM, but 512 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: for the most part his records very conservative. Amy Corney 513 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: Barrett doesn't really have a record on anti trust. It 514 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: there's no reason to think she will be anything close 515 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: to where Ruth Bader Ginsburg was. So you basically, if 516 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: your whole hope is to wait on the Supreme Court 517 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: to stop their working in interpretation of the antitrust laws, 518 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: which is very extreme. That's probably not going to happen. 519 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: So that's what led me to believe that while the 520 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: cases should continue to be fought, especially intact, there may 521 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: be some hope on the horizon there. We've got to 522 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: make some changes that are sensible to the laws to 523 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: take on this. Make our laws as sophisticated as the 524 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: companies that are messing around with them. It's the only 525 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: way you're going to be able to launch the kind 526 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: of investigations we need. Putting people in place, and this 527 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: will be Congress's job to confirm them, but putting people 528 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: in place in the administrations that really want to take 529 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: this on. And Um, you know, you've got some really 530 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: interesting people now working on this who are outside the 531 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,959 Speaker 1: box thinkers. Lena Khan's name has been nominated President Biden 532 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: for the FDC and most of Sgnificantly, Merrick Garland knows 533 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: about this like your husband. He's taught and I trust 534 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: a lot, and um it's a very complex area. And 535 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: he um Is brought it up when he was standing 536 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: next to President Biden when he nominated him. So I 537 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: think that's really hopeful when you have an attorney general 538 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: that understands it. Now, you know, critics um and you 539 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: know there's always critics of everything, but you know, critics say, 540 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: oh and he trust. Come on, you know number one, 541 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: it will drive up prices, it'll hurt innovation, and yet 542 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: there's no evidence of that. It's like so much else 543 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: that we hear from people who defend the status quo. 544 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: Do you want to just take on those two things? 545 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: You're right, the main criticisms are they first say, well, 546 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: this will somehow hurt you guys. Well, one of the 547 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: classics things that happens with anti trust is monopolies under price, 548 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: so it seems really good, and then once they have 549 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: no competitors, and this is history. We know, this is 550 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: is why we have these laws on the book called 551 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: an I trust. They then raised the prices and you're screwed. 552 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: You know, It's like you get a real good deal 553 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: to get in on something and then pretty soon you've 554 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: got the prices and you're stuck with it. So that's 555 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: just economics. That's what happens in unchecked capitalism. And so 556 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: economists are aware that you have to have this check 557 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: because basically price will go up. And I'd say the 558 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: proof is in these longer term monopolies like your cable prices, 559 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: they find they're getting some competition from streaming and the like, 560 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: but over time those prices have gone way up. Um. 561 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: The second thing is on innovation. So originally, and I'm 562 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: so in favor of success, and I was in the 563 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: private sector for fourteen years. I did represent m c 564 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: I by the way, so I had a front row 565 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: seat when we were fighting against the monopolies. It was 566 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: right after the A T and T breakup, and I 567 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: saw there that we got more innovation when A T 568 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: and T was broken up. Cell phones when it started 569 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: where the sides of like Gordon Geckos briefcase and that 570 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: would be well Street, right, And it was all of 571 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: that competition that got us to a better place. And 572 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: right now we need competition in the seed industry, um, 573 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: so that we can get better and better seeds to 574 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: adapt to climate change. We need more competition when it 575 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: comes to these tech companies, so not only do we 576 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: regulate our way into privacy, but they come up with 577 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: the solutions which it just has completely alluded us to 578 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: our great detriment. And so um, that's my argument is 579 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: they have brought us innovation. That's great. A T and 580 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: T did too at the beginning. We you know, with 581 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: the old telephones, right, but then you rejuvenate capitalism and 582 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: you do it with the n I trust laws. Well, 583 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: Senator Kloba, I'm so happy that you are in a 584 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: leadership role on these critically important issues. It's just terrific. 585 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,479 Speaker 1: And the fact that you keep working so hard to 586 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: be bipartisan to find partners. You've mentioned a bunch of 587 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: Republican senators that you have worked with and are working with. 588 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: I only hope that you know they will stay with 589 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: you and be part of the solution to these problems 590 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: that we face. Any last words about your exciting book, Well, 591 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: for those that followed the presidential campaign, my presidential campaign, 592 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: they will be amused to know that Pete and I 593 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 1: of course had this ribbalry on the debate stage, but 594 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: we're truly friends. His book was called trust that he 595 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: put out this ball and of course mine is called 596 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: antitrust um. So that's a little fun fact. But I 597 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: think that for me taking those two issues and they 598 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: really are tied together because we cannot have a strong 599 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: democracy if it is undermined. All the time, as we 600 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: saw in all of its horror on January six by 601 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: disinformation and misinformation on the Internet. And so to me, 602 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: they're kind of tied together, um, and they're not the 603 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: easiest things. In the election case, you're basically taking on 604 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: the entire Republican party structure that doesn't want to see 605 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: that change. And in the antitrust you thank you all 606 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: the monopolies. Other than that, you know it's gonna be 607 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: a piece of k Hillary, but someone's got to do it, 608 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: as you know from those hard things you took on internationally, 609 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm in your corner and I'm thrilled you're leading the charge. 610 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for talking to us about this. Thank 611 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: you so much. Amy's new book is called Antitrust, Taking 612 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: on monopoly Power from the guilded Age to the Digital Age, 613 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: and I think you could tell from listening to her 614 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: she breaks it down and makes it all really understandable 615 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: because we all have a stake in making sure that 616 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: these monopolies don't control our lives. Well, that's it for 617 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: today's episode, and I hope you're feeling inspired to go 618 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: out and solve some problems. There is certainly no shortage 619 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: of them. Around us. How do we rebuild in the 620 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: wake of this pandemic. How do we address us climate 621 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: change on our personal level too, you know, the great 622 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: macro global level. How do we prevent guns from getting 623 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,919 Speaker 1: in the hands of the wrong people? You know, one 624 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: of the biggest problems I'm focused on right now is 625 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: how do we persuade people to get vaccinated? People who say, oh, 626 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: I just don't know. Well, if you're close to somebody 627 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: who's saying that, try to help problem solved, to get 628 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: them the information they need to get vaccinated. And then, 629 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: of course I'm always trying to solve the problems facing 630 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: our country in the world. But you know, that's a 631 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: topic for another day. Before I go, I want to 632 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: make a really exciting announcement about our last episode of 633 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: this season. We're going to turn the tables and let you, 634 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: our listeners, ask the questions. I'll be joined by a 635 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: surprise guest, someone who makes me laugh all the time. 636 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: So if you have a question for me about the podcast, 637 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: about public service, about my favorite pants suit, what where 638 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: it might be, please give us a call at four 639 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: four five eight one four four one, and to all 640 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: the phone everse among us. Don't worry I won't actually 641 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: pick up the phone, so you can call seven leave 642 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: a voicemail any time of the day or night. We 643 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: just asked that you try to keep it to a 644 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: minute or so, or if you prefer, you can email 645 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: us your question at You and Me Both pod at 646 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Once again, that number is nine one 647 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: four four five eight one four four one. I really 648 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: look forward to hearing from you. You and Me Both 649 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced 650 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: by Julie Supran, Kathleen Russo and Lauren Peterson, with help 651 00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: from Kuma Aberdeen, Nikki e Tour, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hawk Hman, 652 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Rob Russo, and Lona Valmorro. Our 653 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: engineer is Zack McNeice. And the original music is by 654 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: Forest Gray. If you like You and Me Both, please 655 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: help spread the word, tell your friends about it, post 656 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: about it on social media, and make sure to hit 657 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: the subscribe buttons so you never miss an episode. You 658 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: can do that on the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 659 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening and 660 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:36,919 Speaker 1: see you next week.